Latest / Pod Therapy / #402: Recovery from ADHD, Dog and Husband's Cancer, Helpless Mother in Law

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#402: Recovery from ADHD, Dog and Husband's Cancer, Helpless Mother in Law · Pod Therapy

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  Speaker 1: I genuinely am they got that chicken sandwich. Don't be
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be great. I'm gonna look at up. I
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: need to tell you about this new place. It's called
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: it's literally cat like Cajun something. I got it from
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Fabulous Las Vegas. No matter.
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  Speaker 2: This is pod therapy, real people, real problems, and real therapists.
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  Speaker 2: You can submit your questions anonymously pod therapy dot net
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: or email us at pot therapy guys at gmail dot com.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: And now broadcasting from the s J and the Ruckus
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  Speaker 2: Coy Pond Studios.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: That's Jim, that's Whitney. I'm there. It's time for some
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: pot therapy. Captain's seafood boy. It's on Rainbow and I
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: don't know if they're open yet. Like Captain in the description,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: we opted for the Cajun sauce, which it's oh wow,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: they have a lot of reviews. Oh it is open, okay,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: because they have one hundred and fifteen reviews. Wow, this
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: does not sound like a Cajun place. This looks like Louisiana. Shit,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: look at that. It's corn and craw dads and some
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: kind of pot craw dad. You gotta say pod fathers.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: I don't fuck and know, but it looks lueezyanion. All right,
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  Speaker 1: I think it. I don't want to eat any of it,
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  Speaker 1: but I mean I assume would. I'm sure you'd.
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  Speaker 3: Probably would send me that.
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  Speaker 1: Hello, everybody, Welcome back to another exciting episode of pod Therapy.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Don't forget that every episode we record a pre show.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: You can hang out with the gang, get to know
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: us better, kind of enjoy a little bit more of
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: a casual conversation where we get get real. We turn
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: the chairs backward and the hats to and uh, you know,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: we just wrap. We talk about real life stuff. Yeah,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: like hotels, like hotels and travel.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so we didn't get much done this week. Yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: in any other week, you should pass money though.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Patreon dot COM's Last Therapy. Come check it out, join
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: the celebration. And of course on Mondays we release uh
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: sporadically extra content deep dives research roundups. I am working
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: on one right now that is probably going to release
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: this week if I have the time to record it.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: But I have all the research done on a political
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  Speaker 1: extremism and assassins, and the FBI has this whole deep
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  Speaker 1: report that they've published that I came upon and started
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: really like turning pages on is so interesting, just into
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  Speaker 1: the psychology of like extremists that that ultimately turned to violence.
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  Speaker 1: Is this a new report or is this Yeah? This
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  Speaker 1: one not the one that you and I did that
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  Speaker 1: years ago about that was about active shooters. This one
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  Speaker 1: specifically about like political extremism that turns into assassination and violence.
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  Speaker 1: So really fascinating stuff. Yeah, yeah, that's very relevant this week,
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  Speaker 1: So lots of Yeah, don't don't turn on the news.
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  Speaker 3: It's fine, the Viking's lost. You don't want to see anything.
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  Speaker 1: Anyway. We are excited to have you with us this week.
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  Speaker 1: We had some great questions for the show you met them? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: oh okay, yeah those guys. The first question up on
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  Speaker 1: the docket today is medical so touched by an Angel
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  Speaker 1: Medication verse recovery in ADHD, Dear doctor, social worker, fitness coach,
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  Speaker 1: and colonel. I've been thinking I might have some adult ADHD.
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  Speaker 1: I've been considering talking to a doctor to see if
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  Speaker 1: ADHD medication might be appropriate for my situation. From listening
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  Speaker 1: to Jim's Deep dive, I remember that ADHD is not
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  Speaker 1: a chronic diagnosis and that it can go away. My
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  Speaker 1: question is, if someone overcomes ADHD by getting on meds,
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  Speaker 1: doesn't that trap them in a state of managing ADHD
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  Speaker 1: symptoms and close the door on recovery. How does someone
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  Speaker 1: with ADHD quote grow out of their symptoms if they're
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  Speaker 1: regularly being managed by medication. By the way, this thought
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: occurred to me today after taking sudafed for a cold
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  Speaker 1: and noticing that my focus was greater after taking it.
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  Speaker 1: You've discovered math, my friend, I know Suita federan suit
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  Speaker 1: of fred whatever the part that one is a stimulant.
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  Speaker 3: So I looked it up and it turns out that
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  Speaker 3: it is somewhat effective as ADHD med Thanks everybody be gay,
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  Speaker 3: do crimes. It's also effective if you want to stay
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  Speaker 3: up for four or five days.
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  Speaker 1: Fuck udo, fat dude. I had I had a really bad,
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  Speaker 1: uh like allergy spell, like when my mom was visiting
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  Speaker 1: or whatever, and I thought about taking suit of fed.
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  Speaker 1: I was like, fuck, man, if you take this, my
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  Speaker 1: heart wants to explode out of my chest. Every time
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  Speaker 1: I take sudi fed, I just cannot.
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  Speaker 2: I don't have I don't know for whatever reason, whatever
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  Speaker 2: medication I take, I never have any of the symptoms.
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  Speaker 2: Or the side effects that people talk about. Okay, like sudafed,
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  Speaker 2: I've never had that feeling.
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  Speaker 1: Whoa, you don't notice the stuff? No, do you get
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  Speaker 1: medicine head when you take certain things? I mean, when
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: you take like a benadrill, you tire when I when
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  Speaker 1: I take it.
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  Speaker 2: That's like the only side effect that I have is
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  Speaker 2: when I take a ben a drill, I can't stay awake.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm that's about it. But like any kind.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Of feeling high or feeling any like disassociation.
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  Speaker 1: When you take niqu will, what is that like? For nothing? Dude?
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  Speaker 1: I have the worst fucking nightmares. Really, it's so bad
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  Speaker 1: that I won't take it. I will not take night will.
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  Speaker 1: Fuck that noise.
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  Speaker 2: I would love to hear about your nightmare.
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  Speaker 1: What is a gym nightmare? Okay, I will tell you, actually,
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  Speaker 1: right journal, let me tell you all about it. My nightmares.
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  Speaker 2: It's like he gets all the way to La Jolla
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  Speaker 2: but just can't get to his hotel.
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  Speaker 1: To pay money to fix it. God damn it over
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  Speaker 1: and over and over again. Uh no, my my nightmares.
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  Speaker 1: The closest thing I could describe them as is the
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Disney movie Alice in Wonderland. It is always that. It's
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  Speaker 1: just I am going through situations, caterpillar smoking, nothing makes sense.
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  Speaker 1: Just every situation does not make any sense, and I
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: am like, frustratingly trying to figure out the rules of
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: the situation and just be done with this.
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  Speaker 3: So is the bad dream part of this that you
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  Speaker 3: don't understand? It is that the negative side of it?
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  Speaker 3: Or are their negative things happening?
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  Speaker 1: It's all taken as granted in the dream. It's all
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  Speaker 1: happening in this way that everybody around me that's also
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  Speaker 1: in the dream accepts this weird ass scenario as the norm.
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  Speaker 1: And when I'm pissed off and I'm like, what the
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  Speaker 1: fuck is this caterpillar talking to us for? Why do
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  Speaker 1: we have to listen to his ass? But this noise,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Everybody's like, whoa, why are you so angry? Like how
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: does that make you feel? Thanks for asking, buddy. Confused,
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  Speaker 1: very confused, and very upset, and I hate those. And
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  Speaker 1: then I wake up from the nightmare, and then I'm
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  Speaker 1: scared to go back to sleep because I don't want
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  Speaker 1: to go back to the caterpillar thing. It's just it's
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  Speaker 1: just the confusion of it that bothers you.
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  Speaker 4: Doesn't stand it.
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  Speaker 1: Everything is a penis. I mean, it's so confusing that
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: what's confusing about I mean they are kind of confusing,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: confused about a penis with all the penises. So that's
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  Speaker 1: what my nightmares look like. And that's why I won't
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  Speaker 1: take night quess. Well, I feel like I just watched
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  Speaker 1: this that just has a weird dream.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah that does sound like this is my nightmare or
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  Speaker 5: a nightmare. Okay, okay, But there's this pharmacist that's on
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  Speaker 5: like you. I saw it on YouTube shorts and he
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: goes through and talks about how like pseudo fed and
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: different like musin x all that just bullshit.
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  Speaker 1: Oh really Yeah, Oh I heard that mucinex recently kind
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: of got revealed.
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  Speaker 4: Like an of the ones it's too much information.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Came out and said, no, this is actually the active
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  Speaker 1: ingredient doesn't do the thing we thought it.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, something weird like that. It's extra dollars.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it may have been related to pseudo fed too.
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  Speaker 1: I remember that.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, I just watched this a couple of days ago,
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  Speaker 5: so something about pseudo fed.
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  Speaker 4: Look it up. Don't trust me, I'm not a doctor.
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  Speaker 1: It's meth.
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  Speaker 3: That's that's the fun of it.
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  Speaker 5: But is pseudo fed made for They said they took
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  Speaker 5: it for a cold. You used to take it for allergies?
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  Speaker 3: Is that?
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  Speaker 5: Uh?
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  Speaker 4: I think it's like a decongested Oh okay, just symptoms.
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  Speaker 1: So it depends on what you're going through. But this
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: is an interesting question congestion and ADHD apparently. But it
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: is an interesting question. I mean because like if I'm
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: if I'm hearing the question right, I think it's like
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: this chicken and egg thing right, because it's like, okay,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: because what what Biga is referring to is in my
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: six hour deep dive on ADHD, very thorough. It's not
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: all one block. Everybody, don't listen to fucking Jacob. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: he has turned so many people away from my ADHD.
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  Speaker 1: They are units, they are just all I.
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  Speaker 3: Do is talk about how great it is that you
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: expounded at such length. Yes, and in such a dull,
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  Speaker 3: monotone voice.
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  Speaker 4: I trust doctor Jacob.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: It's so good that you were so concerned about the
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: information that you want to make sure that nothing in
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: your delivery hindered the reception of that information. It's truly
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: responsorough the ad It's the kind of attitude that one
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: you would doctorate in the first This is true.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: This is true. The average extra content that I create
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: on Patreon is almost always about an hour, sometimes ninety minutes,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: and so occasionally six hours. Four units of AHD they
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: were an hour and a half each, and that added
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: up to six hours. Anyway, on that that talk. One
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: of the things that we we go through is like
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: debunking myths and common misunderstandings about HD. And one of
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: the things a lot of people don't know about is
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: that we expect ADHD over time to wane if you're
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: diagnosed with it as a child. A high percentage of
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: people that are diagnosed with as a child would not
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: meet criteria later on in life. It eventually wanes away.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: Now is that because and forgive the forgive the verb,
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: But here is that because we kind of just settle
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: down as we get older.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: It might be developments, like it could be brain development.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: It could just be like you said, settling down. It
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: could just be growing into your body and your homewners.
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: Likenstantly changing learning, coping skills, adapt And I love my dab,
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: but he is ADHD, Like and he's seventy five years old,
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: and I'm like, yeah.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: And absolutely there are people he.
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: Like won't really admit that. He kind of will finally
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: accept it because I've told him enough. I'm like, do
• 9:41
  Speaker 5: you just accept this? But he was like, I remember
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: I had to like do things extra in college and
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: like do all this stuff to like get through shit.
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: That was hard.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: Like that's because you my man.
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah exactly. I'm like still, so, like what.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: What the writer's referencing here is like that that's something
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: that we talk about in that deep dive becase because
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: I think it's kind of like chilled out a little
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: bit more now. But at the time when I recorded these,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: the big emphasis we were seeing in like social media
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: culture about ADHD was that it's a type of person.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: It's like it is who you are to your core,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: and when you discover this about yourself, it's like doing
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: a twenty three and meters and realizing you're like eighty
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: percent Irish, and it's like, oh, now that I know
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: this permanent reality about me, it explains why I don't tan,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: you know, and like all these extra things that now
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: that I know this becomes a compass for how I
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: live my entire life. And there was way too much
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: emphasis being put on this idea of neurodivergence and of
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: ADHD being these permanent features when in the research we
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: actually see that the majority of people who I who
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: would be diagnosed with ADHD in childhood will eventually grow
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: out of it. So I think that's what bigae is
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: talking about. Is he's saying, Hey, so, like, on one hand,
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  Speaker 1: we have that scientific fact that a lot of people
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: grow out of this, But if I'm given the medicines
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: to cope with this over time, then it becomes this
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: question of is the medicine masking the symptoms so I
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: don't notice it anymore? Or did it go away on
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: its own? And then you have to like take away
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: the band aid to find out if the scar healed
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: kind of thing. And he's asking that question of, like,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: so if you end up staying on the medicines as
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: part of your regular functioning, how do you go about
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: this process of like does it heal on its own
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: even when you're on the medicines? Like into that complexity,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I guess.
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And and my understanding with ADHD medication and I
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: feel like I had a nurse practitioner express their opinions
• 11:28
  Speaker 5: recently to me on this as well, where and that
• 11:31
  Speaker 5: was the in their opinion, ADHD meds should not be
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: taken all the time, like you don't wake up, I mean,
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: you don't wake up and just have to populate ADHD
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: meds right one hundred percent of the time the day
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: you're prescribed till the day you die, or so.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Take them as needed for some management.
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: Kind of as needed.
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: So, like children end up taking it really often because
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: they're in school five days a week and that's majority
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: of their time, and maybe their parent wants them to
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: take on the weekend.
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: Because they're stressed the fuck out.
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: Like I don't know, but I think kids end up
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: taking it more consistently because they are having to for
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: their lifestyle purposes. They're having to fit into that mold
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: like parents have to work, you have to go to school,
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: and we want you to have a self esteem and
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: not be like just torn down every day because you
• 12:14
  Speaker 5: can't focus.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Right. But it opens up a good question here because
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Biga is saying, if you're a human who has this,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: there's going to be a debate or or there's going
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: to be a little bit of a push and pull
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: inside of you. Do you take a medicine that nulls
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: out the symptoms or do you have to learn to
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: manage the symptoms. And if we want you to learn
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: to manage the symptoms, to what extent are you supposed
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: to be using medicine? And really, I think we can
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: macro that question out to all mental health conditions, right,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: because you have anxiety and it's like, okay, should you
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: just be taking xanax every time you have an anxiety
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: attack or should you have to learn how to cope
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: and recover? Well, the goal is not.
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: To I think, become a dependent.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: That's part of it.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, the goal is not to find a
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: treatment that works. The goal is to get to a
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: place in life where you're comfortable and happy.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: I love that response.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: And so like whatever the treatment ends up being, if
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: it ends up being you know, sixty percent meds and
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: forty percent uh you know, uh coping mechanisms or you
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: know the vice versa, or you know ninety ten or whatever,
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: it is, so right, right, like who cares? What the what?
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: What the treatment methodology is. If it works for you
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: and gets you to a good headspace, then like cool.
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: Right yeah, Because even Bige says if someone overcomes ADHD
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: by getting on meds and I think that wording is
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: pretty tulling there.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're not.
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: My personal opinion is I don't want someone to overcome ADHD.
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: I want them to function kind of like Jacobs saying
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: I want you're happy.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: Overcoming implies that there is a baseline that we are
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: all trying to achieve.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're like.
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: A problem, like a like a problem and so right.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so anything that keeps you from achieving that baseline
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: becomes a problem. And then like you're just trying to
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: surmount that problem to get to that baseline.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: There is no baseline, right, We're all.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: Just trying to be happy and content, right, like whatever
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: whatever our idiot of our issues are, like, that's all
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: we're trying to do.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, I just watch this. I feel like I'm
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: being very hippie right now. No, I love it's the headband.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: You're not wrong about current.
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: Him back on the YouTube shorts again. But have y'all
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: seen that Subway guy interview? That unch.
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: Watching him for a lot.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: He had really huge pants. It turns out he's a
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: really cool YouTube channel.
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: He has a great.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: It was not a brill in depth.
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: Man, Know, this guy does like Subway takes and he's
• 14:49
  Speaker 5: I don't know about chronically on YouTube, like I am.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Then there's Subway. I got a new spokesperson. They wanted
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: to taste the amount of time.
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah jared.
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: It, but no, those guys is on the subway and
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: he interviews people about like what's your hot take? And
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: the other day these two brothers were like, people are
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: getting over therapized, okay.
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: And I sat with this fom when.
• 15:18
  Speaker 5: I was like about to be all defensive, you know,
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: and I listened and they ended up saying their their mom,
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: I think, is a therapist.
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: So they're like, we love therapy. We promote therapy.
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: But there's a point where they said they felt like
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: their generation and it looked like probably you know, younger
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: gen z. They're like, we are looking to therapy to
• 15:38
  Speaker 5: fix our problems.
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: Like, and I'm not saying my peers, Oh yeah, I agree.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: A lot of head wearing hippies, that's right.
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't disagree because I feel like they only
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: know other people their age.
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: But I thought the same thing.
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: I'm like a lot of my clients in their thirties
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: or forties will seek the same thing out, like, oh
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: do I have this diagnosis? Is this what's like wrong
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: with me, and it almost it presumes that something is
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: a problem instead of allowing us to all be like
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: our different, weird humans. Right.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: But then on the other hand, out there I have
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: I have a friend who is she was recently she's
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: my age and was recently diagnosed for the first time
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: with ADHD.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: At adult adult onset.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: I don't no, sorry, not that, but like basically late diagnosis. Okay, yeah,
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: it's some term for late diagnosis ADHD, late life diagnosed ADHD.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: She's in her forties and and and.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it's very interesting, but it seems to have
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: helped her mental disposition, just having that that clarification, So
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: I mean that can certainly be part of it.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: And to be clear, like I'm for that, I'm for
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: people finding out their truth. And where I think Biga
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: may have misunderstood some of my deep dive is that
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: it isn't the case that the science says people develop
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: their way out of it, like they solve it themselves.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: And that's where this word recovery can get tricky, right,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: because like when we use the word recovery in addictions work,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: we know that you and your pattern and your programming
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: is a big part of gonna be your overall success
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: while you still permanently have an ailment that you need
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: to always be mindful of, which is the propensity for
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: addiction in ADHD. I don't know that you can exert
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: yourself enough with enough coping skills that this doesn't happen.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Like ADHD is fundamentally a way your brain works and
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: something you can learn to work with and like find
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: success with it. But like I don't know that there's like, oh,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: this one weird trick, and then you will not have
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: ADHD anymore. You cannot like will power your way out
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: of it or change it. Like whereas with anxiety issues,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: like I have generalized anxiety disorder, I function with it
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: pretty well, and in that sense, I have all this
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: recovery skill that like helps me get through the world,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: and I don't need the medicines to survive it, and
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I'm good, and like most of the time, I seem
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: like a person doesn't have it, But then like, deep
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: down I know that I do ADHD. I don't know,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: isn't that same kind of ballpark it is? We consider
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: it a neuro developmental And I don't like the word illness,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: I mean predisposition and those who grow out of it
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: grow out of it like they develop out of it.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: We think that there's something happening in their neurostructure that
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: ultimately changes, and then they just don't seem to have
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: the symptoms anymore. So I don't know that the mentality
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: should be that they worked their way out of it.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: So I mean to kind of go back to his question,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: is his continuing to take the medication preventing the possibility
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: of him growing out of it?
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: See I don't think so. If you're an adult and
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: now you're taking the medicines, if you could grow out
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: of it as an adult, which I would argue that's
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: an open question too, I think you're kind of done
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: developing at that point. I think it's really just a
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: question of function. Like our old boss, doctor Poul used
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: to talk to us about opioids for painkilling, same concept.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: He said, The point is not to be symptom free.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: The point is to improve your functioning. And there's some
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: medicines that you take too much of and it decreases
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: your functioning even though you're less pain right, and so
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: like the same thing with ADHD meds. If if the
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: meds are ultimately facilitating an improved overall functionality. Then they
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: are one of your tools that has a purpose in
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: a time, in a place. But I agree with the
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: idea that I like humans having more than one tool
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: in their back right. And this is where like we
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: see this with adolescence. We sas young people taking medicine holidays,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: you know, where they're learning how to like cope on
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: the weekends and like self manage and self regulate. There's
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: room for that. That's what that means. Yeah, Oh I've
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: been doing it wrong. Yeah you're doing the other way.
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: You're regulating with the drugs, right, yeah, yeah dropping acid.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta go the other way with it. That's bad.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Raw dog life.
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: I was just gonna say, I totally saw someone doing
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: coc and alley in Portugal. I was like, Wow, they
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: just did that, they like bought it, and just like
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: I was like, I am sheltered.
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: In this life.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Oh I didn't. I don't think I told you.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: I think I said it on an ice cream social
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: within like the first five minutes or so of walking
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: around on Pink Street in downtown liz and there. It
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: might have been less, might have been like three minutes,
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: but I got offered coke like five or six times.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Wow, with it a couple of minutes. Wow, But in fairness,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: you look like that's gonna buy some coke.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: In fairness, I've been offered coke multiple times since then. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: it's become a bit of a runner on IDs. There's
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: clearly something about me that is inviting something about you.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: It might be because you keep buying the coke. I think
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: that might be part of it too. That would explain
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: why it's always the same guy. He only me alone,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: and no, I feel we're not buying it on the trip.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: That actually actually, now that you mentioned it, yeah, yeah,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: and then you get those frequent purchasing miles.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Speaking of weird ship on the streets, I saw a
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: guy taking a piss on the sidewalk on Flamingo and
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Maryland Parkway.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Good. But the crazy thing about that it checks out
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: none of that. Yeah, that's just normal.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: But the crazy part about it was that he wasn't
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: like behind a tree or building or someplace. He was
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: literally standing no, yes, yes, honestly, if you respect that,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: if you're gonna do it, if you're gonna do it,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: don't be coy.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let us all know this is what I'm doing.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Don't be a colorful fish. Yeah, whip that dick out,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, get that mold checked out and b gay.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: I think that's all. That's the point we want to
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: make today, is you know, like with with you and yours,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: whip your dick out, piss right in public.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how you solve ADHD.
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: You're doing crime.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Not in all countries, some countries, I'm sure it's fine.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: I believe it's frowned upon in Las Vegas. Yeah, but yeah,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: just a categorical error that might be happening there. Be
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: gay is just we don't necessarily recover our way out
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: of adult ADHD. It's just the case that ADHD, when
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: measured across lifespan, often seems to develop away as the
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: brain and the body continue to develop. And then adults
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: who have it, even those who have it, they there
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: is a component of learning coping skills, learning, self regulation, learning,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: executive functioning management. But then the medicine is an important
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: tool as well, And so I don't want it to
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: be the case that like it's either or it can
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: be both, and I don't know that just by using
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: the medicines you're never going to get a chance to
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: practice your coping skills or work on, like, you know,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: your personal management. I think you're going to find those
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: opportunities because the meds only last for so long, Like
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: the half life of amphetamines is pretty low. So yeah,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I think that if you're asking yourself, should I try
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: to wean down off these and try to increase sort
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: of my my grappling with these symptoms in real time?
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I think that's fine. I think that's fine under the
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: advice of your therapist, under the advice of your doctor,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: with their support. Getting skills from you know, communities and
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: online then applying those things is great. But this idea
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: that one will recover from ADHD if they try hard
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: enough or learn enough, I don't know is the categorical
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: way we should be talking about that. I just don't
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: think that's the case. People do develop out of it,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: but that is something that just happens. They didn't earn.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: It just happens unless they did it through prayer.
• 23:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah, in which you pradh adhd RYHD No more high
• 23:14
  Speaker 6: death episode TITLEHD.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: Anyway, thank you be Gay for writing in We're gonna
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: take a quick break and when we come back, we're
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: talking about a dog and a husband's cancers. WHOA you're
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: listening to Good Therapy.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Today's episode has brought to you by Robert Brownie Junior
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Men's Kayla Lansbury, Kevin Chamberlain, Ben Stanley, Adam Hathaway, Dan
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Mark Live, Hey Yo, Andrew Langmead Schad, Meg and Prince
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: and would you lexmuss the show become a therapiscer picture
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: on dot com Flash there, all right, weird history trivia
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: today truth jam from inter Emma.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: All right, do we have a time period or anything,
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: or is just like general history?
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: It could be all the way down to last hour.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: It's all on the table, bab earlier today.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Five minutes ago. Uh, Jim, we'll start with you. What
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: happened at Lunchtown?
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: What was Napoleon Bonaparte once attacked by during a hunting trip?
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Uh? Ok? Too off the fly? Sure a bore be
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: there for me? Be there, bore.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: It is listed as an option, Okay, and it is incorrect.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Alright, alright, swinging a mess, but a gentleman's mess. All right,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: all right, Whitney for the steal.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: You want choices, choices, geese, rabbits, wild boars, swans, a
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: wild boys.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: Him, implied, tame boys. Damn a domesticated boar. H.
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: He said, geese swans, and what was the rabbits? Rabbits, rabbits,
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: it's gonna be geese.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Would like the best rabbits, swans. It's gotta be swans,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: that I mean, can't be rabbits.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: Point for Nick, whoa, it's rabbits big, remember to him,
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: rabbits are Oh that's right, that's right. Yeah, yeah he was.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: They were towering over him. Yeah, that's probably the case.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Yea, zero points all around except for Nick. All right,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: here we go.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: You know that was just disinformation from the English.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Short. Yeah he was actually he was like a little
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: a little taller than average. Yeah, and it's disinformation from
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Emma that he was attacked by rabbits.
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I thought that's what we're.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Anti French shots fired thing. Yeah.
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: The English like passed all this around, say that Napoleon
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: was super short. Oh my god, to piss off a
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: dictator that implied that he had a tiny pin.
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: Are what they were trying to say?
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've risen above that. We talk about our leaders.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: Bat Parker a tray stone, which case you're making billions
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: of dollars off talking about our leaders.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Whitney.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in the eighteenth century. In eighteenth century Europe, which
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: animal was sometimes put on trial for murder?
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: My gosh, eighteenth century options.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, I have guesses donkeys, goats, pigs, or chickens.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: None of my guesses were on the list. Yeh, chupacabra
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: I thought would.
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: Definitely put on trial for murder sasquatch, donkeys, goats, pigs,
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: and what chicken? Jesus, donkeys, goats, pigs, are chickens, donkeys?
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: It feels right. No, for the steel, I feel like
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: I got fifty to fifty.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna say goats, legoats, No, oh my god, it's
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: down to chickens, pigs, It's gonna be.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Killing people.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: It's got to be pigs, chickens.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: It iss.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: I was between goats and pigs because of cloven hoof.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: I was going biblical.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Is there an explanation? Nope? All right, thanks em
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: for it. Right.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: Feel free to include explanation any that you think they
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: are not, not anything you think we'll be interested in,
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: that's right, and any that we will be interested in.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: Make sure there is an explanation that we're not interested
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: to make sure, there is not an explanation.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: I think I went backwards.
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: It's your turn now, right, No, Jacob.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: You went this way? Yeah, yeah, okay, all right, Jacob.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: In fifteen eighteen, what strange events swept through Strasburg causing
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: dozens of people to collapse?
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Oh? See?
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: In fifteen eighteen Columbus sailed the ocean blue and cause
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: people to collapse in Strasburg.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Sudden onset Columbus.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sudden onset Columbus is final answer. I guess options
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: the Great Sneezing plague. That's the dancing play.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: That's it. The yawning fever or the singing madness. Go
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: for govert dance dance fever.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: I mean you got the Saint Vitus dance scratch fever.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: That's not a dance, that's a fever. That's right there
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: at the song title. The Saint Vitus dance is a
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: real that's a real disease. Was there a laughing one?
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Sneezing sneezing that's right.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Sneezy fashful doc.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Let's see, I'll say how many how many people was
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: it they collapsed?
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: I did not Oh, I thought you said dozens. You
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: said dozens. It was in you're you're not.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Strange event swept through Strasburg, causing dozens of people.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: I will help myself to.
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: Your believing women.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Well, dog, jimithy, I'm on the right side of history. Yes,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: let's yawning, Jim. Give me the dancing one mother the
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: dancing player. Yes. Wow, I just wanted it to be true.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you just gotta want something with all your heart
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: and it will happen. Points very well today, Good for me?
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Is that all for this round? That's it? Next question
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: dog and husband's cancer. Hiyall, you answered a question of
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: mine at the start of the year, and it made
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: me laugh so much when things were tough. So I'm
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: hoping you can do the same again. No pressure, I'm
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: unfortunately that answer gave both my husband and my dog
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: cancer a bit of background for context and sorry. If
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: it's long. Been with my husband for a very happy
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: thirty three years, think he'd probably be weirdly okay to
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: stick with me for another thirty three Okay. Nearly sixteen
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: years ago, we had IVF for a much wanted third child.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: I got pregnant but lost the baby at twelve weeks,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: just when it was starting to become obvious I was
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: pregnant and had gone through a lot of the most
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: hideous parts. To say the loss was traumatic was an understatement.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Because I was early forties and we'd spend all our money.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: We knew that was the end of the road regarding
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: more children. Whilst I'd been pregnant, an acquaintance had been
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: posting on Facebook that her dog was also going through
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: morning sickness. I had the mad idea of getting one
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: of the puppies once born, and my husband would have
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: agreed to anything I asked at that point. So from
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: almost the moment my dog was born, she was earmarked
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: as mine. I visited her frequently from a week old.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: When I finally took her her home, she already felt
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: as though she'd been my dog forever. This dog has
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: been the most wonderful silver lining to a dark cloud
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: for the last fifteen and a half years. She's a
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: terrier across with so much character, energy and zest for life.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: I've done so much with her at my side, from
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: traveling in holidays to dog training classes to agility. She
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: truly is my once in a lifetime dog. In a way,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: I could barely be sad over what I went through
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: as I can't imagine a world in which she wasn't
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: my dog. July this year, my husband started saying one
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: of his testicles had swollen up and he'd been ignoring it.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: It wasn't easy to persuade him to see a doctor,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: but finally he did and was referred for a scan
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: and it was cancer. Much as we moan about the
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: NHS in the UK, I have to say they've been
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: amazing and very fast. It's been a whirlwind of tests,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: CT scans and consultants leading to the removal of said
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: testicle at the start of September. We are now waiting
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: to see if he will need any chemo. Finding out
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: it was cancer was awful. I sobbed so many tears
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: and was so terrified I was going to lose him.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: I absolutely fell to pieces over my poor adult kids
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: who have also had to face the illness of their father.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: But we've been told there's a very high survival rate
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: and it hasn't spread from what we know, so although
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: it's been really hard, he's recovering well from the op
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: and things are looking tentatively brighter. Then in the midst
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: of all this, between his diagnosis and the operation, the
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: vet discovered our dog had really aggressive lymphoma which had
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: appeared from what seemed like nowhere. It nearly killed her
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: during the awful week. She was diagnosed whilst we were
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: still in limbo waiting for my husband's appointment. But in
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: the midst of that week we made the decision to
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: try chemo for our dog, and that's what we've done.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: She isn't out of the woods by any means at all,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: and I risk that by the time you read this,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: we will have had bad news. Because of her age,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: We've gone for a moderate protocol, which is less risk
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: to her and has minimal side effects, but should still
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: provide a reasonable remission. She's responding well to the chemos
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: so far, and we are starting to see our lively,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: happy dog back, although it still feels like I'm on
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: a roller coaster. Here's the issue. The whole world seems
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: to have an opinion on us paying for chemo for
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: a fifteen year old dog, and their opinion is most
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: definitely not a positive one. My adult kids have been wonderful,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: but they grew up with this dog and have an
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: attachment to her, and our very senior experienced vet would
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: not hesitate to tell us if we were putting our
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: dog through suffering by choosing this path. That's something I
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: check with the VET about regularly. However, I've lost count
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: of the number of extended family and friends who have
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: repeatedly told me to have the dog put to sleep.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: No one has suggested this for my husband. I notice.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: I've had comments like, put her to sleep so you
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: can concentrate on your husband like you should be, and
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: you'll be so much happier once you've had that dog
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: put to sleep.
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: Oh my god.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: I've been told I'm crazy spending the money and the
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: VET trips are too much of a tie for me
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: at the moment, and that I should just let her go.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Telling people I don't want to talk about it doesn't work.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Saying I'm taking the vet's advice doesn't work. People just
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: cannot resist telling me that I'm doing the wrong thing.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: I'm beyond fed up with messages telling me I'm doing
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: the wrong thing or wasting my money. But although the
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: chemo for her isn't cheap, it's way less than half
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: these friends and family spend on their cruises or their holidays.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: That's it, or a lot of their possessions or their
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: beauty treatments, and no one is sending them negative texts
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: about that. On top of all, I've been sitting friends
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: lots of negative He just spams everybody with harassment and
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: hopes that it lands.
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: In the right now.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: On top of this, I'm getting a constant barrage of
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: concerned texts and messages from seemingly the whole world, asking
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: how is my husband? Every detail of treatment, how is
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: he feeling, etc. Et cetera. For some reason, people are
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: too scared to message him directly, as though the cancer
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: has rendered him incapable of speaking for himself, so they
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: all ask me. They mean, well, but recently it's my dog.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: I've been shedding the tears over because her life currently
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: feels so much more precarious. If I mention the dog,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: I'm ignored at best. One of my friends the other
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: evening asked, and how is your husband? We're all so
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: concerned for him, and I yelled back, I don't fucking care.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: I care about my dog. I did later apologize and
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: say it's not true that I don't care, but it
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: wasn't my finest moment and things have been strained since.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: And so I find myself in the position where I'm
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: stuck avoiding or alienating a lot of people in my
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: life because they think I'm a heartless bitch who doesn't
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: give a shit about my husband and only cares about
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: my dog, which isn't actually true at all. And I
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: do have a couple of wonderful friends who do get
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: it because they've been through similar but similar situations, but they,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: of course are the minority. Husband, by the way, is
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: one hundred percent behind the decisions with the dog, and
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: losing her right now wouldn't help him. I look forward
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: to advice and testicle jokes, many thinks theropod Foxy Sally
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Sally right, I mean first with the first testical joke,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: or just or just rattle them off. Yeah, let's go on.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Is the loneliest that you live?
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Remember Stephen Lynch that he was a comedian, this songwriter, Yeah,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: the song guy.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: And so he had a song about having one testicle,
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: did he Yeah?
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: And there was something.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: He had a line in that song, something about the
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: insecurity he has and experiences when he's had a baseball
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: game and he hears the umpire say ball one.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: Jokes one testicle in there going like so much room
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: for activities.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Guy can really just spread out and yeah, this is great.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: Did you get in one of the fake testicles or
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: one of the fake testile yeah, eaven it out a
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: little bit. Yeah, I would suggest getting one that lights up.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, there's so much more fun. Yeah, and then
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: you're like, it's like glowing through your ballsack. And the
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: ones that makes sound effects when you hit them, yeah,
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: those are great.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: Gong.
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: There's got to be some of those that are like
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: Bluetooth controlled. Oh yeah, a like a Bluetooth speaker. Yeah,
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: just I mean, okay, there you go, Jacob. You've got
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: too healthy ones right now. Would you be willing to
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: get rid of a healthy one to get a Bluetooth one?
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: That's kind of what I And if you could also
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: put in like a tap to to pay feature, so
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: I get like you pay for my Starbucks. Yes, you
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: just sold that's it, you just sold it.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Oh that's all I want. That's all just reaching right
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: down there, holding them all up, dabbing them on the
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: fucking star thing.
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: Just give it a quick little stamp and then then
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: they rip it away and you're.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Like, I didn't click the tip though, If you could,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: I will get slide it back over like to give
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: the tip. Yeah, I want to give you tip as well.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: There's no reason to have to. Yeah, yeah, it's just
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: that it's probably the cause of most of my back problems.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah that extra, Yeah, that's true. It's holding you back
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: in life. I mean, it's only going to speed up
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: your spending trouts or so, that's it. Oh yeah. The
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: drag on the swim time is terrible too, you know. Yeah, because.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: Testicle is the only thing keeping me out of the Olympics.
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: That's I can't disprove that exactly. You're absolutely exactly.
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: But what if you change your mind and want to
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: have kids.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: That's less likely. That's why you keep one. You have
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: one just in case you want to do that. Yeah,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: you need both.
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: I was definitely going to wreckon been putting down your husband, okay, yeah, yeah,
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: So I'm sad that they beat you to you.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sad that you got to that earlier way
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: to step on the jokes fot Yeah, Jesus.
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: Really looking forward on having a whole diet drive about
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: how you put your husband down. It's going to be
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: the best had a good life. Yeah, Yeah, he's miserable now,
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: that's right. Yeah, he's just in constant pain. Yeah, it's
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: really just it's inhuman Yeah, sorry, boy.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Throw them away? You do this? Why are we? Why
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: are we back here? What's coming on here? Let's just
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: throw a stick. Stop the We're going to have a picnic.
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: It's a slide effect from the medicine.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Bring the canol. That's right. I definitely love it too.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: When you hear other people say, you know, your life
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: would be a lot happier if you just took my advice.
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: Jesus, this is the same ballpark. By the way, I
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: I am with, I am all on team don't spend
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: lots of money on pets. But that's just how I am.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: That's how i'm That's how I was brought up, and
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: that's how I live. Uh, my wife is not on
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: that team, and so I spend lots of money on
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: pets whether I want to or not. It doesn't matter
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: what team I'm on. As far as spending money on pets, Yes,
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: but yeah, like who gives half a ship?
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: How other people spend their money period?
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I buy ridiculous things all the time. You even
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: point out, like your friends are going on cruises and
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: everything between telling you that you should kill your dog,
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: and I like, God damn it, so like that think
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: you are to waste.
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: Your time on that cruise. That cruise five other.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: Times you told them not to spend their money on
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: the on the cruise, there'd being an asshole the other
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: way around. I think you could probably point that out
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: to them in a nicer way than that, But you
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: could just be like, Hey, if I told you not
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: to go on your cruise because it costs too much money,
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: you probably wouldn't appreciate that. I'm trying to keep my
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: dog alive right now because that's what I want to do.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: Fuck you can go fuck yourself. Yeah, I will say
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: I do think that there's something and I'm on the
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: same side as that, so I at the end of
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: the day, the end of this point is Yep, you
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: should be able to do what you're gonna do, and
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: we all empathize with you. I will say that it's
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: not uncommon when somebody is facing a really big, existential,
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: scary thing to see them become preoccupied with another challenge
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: to go solve another problem. Another thing also seems to
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: matter a lot all the same, And I've seen this before,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Like I've had a patient who was terminally ill with
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: cancer and her husband and her trying to navigate this,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: and I worked with both of them, and then as
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: this was going on, husband started becoming really preoccupied with
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: a current election that was happening. This is many years ago,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: but was very suddenly interested in an election and what
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: was going on with this election and how things need
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: to be addressed. I had another patient who was terminally ill,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: also with cancer, and he suddenly was very very preoccupied
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: with with college sports and a very particular college basketball
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: team and just very involved in this very passionate, like
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: it mattered a lot to him all of a sudden,
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: And at the time it's like, huh, you're kind of
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: missing this big, huge, glaring thing in your life. But
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: that's the the a misunderstanding of how humans cope, right
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: because when you're staring at this black hole that's like,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: oh my god, the unthinkable thing is losing the father
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: of my children, a three decade partner. To me, that
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: is ultimately easy. Thing is getting into Nickel State basketball.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: It rightes YEA, honestly, like that's easy. It's a different
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: problem that my brain can focus on that ultimately is
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: kind of employ by the way, Yeah, it's also a
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: way that I'm dealing with my pain and frustrations about
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: problem A, because we're already doing all the things we
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: can do with problem A, right, we're solving that problem.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Now I'm bringing all my energy intention to problem B
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: and and like, I am invested in it, and I'm
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: not a to minimize the connection that Foxy has to
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: the dog. I think that this would have been how
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Foxy felt anyway, even if husband had not been ill.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: But I guess I'm trying to validate how common it
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: is that when somebody's facing an unthinkable terror that actually
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: they often do partition their attention into other problems and
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: and like really zoom in on those things. And to me,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: that's not necessarily weird, and it doesn't subtract any units
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: of energy or mental power from problem A. It's actually
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: really common in my experience.
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't have any problem with this at all
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: from any viewpoint. It's not what I would do, I
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: don't think. But you'd shoot the dog, But who gives
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: a ship. Yeah, that's the first thing you do. You
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: shoot the dog. If the dog was like, just shoot
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: the husband. Okay, So you're just rampaging at this point. Yeah,
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: I think the point is you're all too loud.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: I just want to read, God goddamn thermostat you're living
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: an open to five rules. I will not live like
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: this anymore. Now, quick follow we get the mouth honey bad,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: I warned her.
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: I have an interesting thought. What I hear is.
• 44:16
  Speaker 5: That that Foxy is kind of overwhelmed with people asking
• 44:23
  Speaker 5: her about husband, And what I was thinking was are
• 44:26
  Speaker 5: people asking her about the dog too? Or are they
• 44:29
  Speaker 5: Is she upset everyone's asking about my husband and nobody
• 44:31
  Speaker 5: seems to care about the dog like I'm trying to
• 44:34
  Speaker 5: kind of or when they.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Do, it's only to reprimand her or to scoff.
• 44:38
  Speaker 5: Right, or she's like, yeah, I'm dealing with you know,
• 44:40
  Speaker 5: like husband's doing better. Are dog though, is in the
• 44:43
  Speaker 5: thick of it? And they're like, what, like why aren't
• 44:45
  Speaker 5: you there for your husband? You know, they're giving their
• 44:48
  Speaker 5: commentary them because you brought it up because you thought
• 44:50
  Speaker 5: they were your friends and family who would sympathize or
• 44:53
  Speaker 5: empathize with you, and they are not on that same page.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: And also like they're not doing something bad.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: No in the first place, right, they're asking like they're
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: concerned for human they're just not thinking about the dog.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: So when you bring up the dog, it takes it.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: They're they're gonna be a little taken aback as well.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: And I kind of relate to this, like, you know,
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: I think it was too year, which.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: Is their fault, by the way, right, it's only their
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: fault because.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: They're making assumptions and then and then you're exposing the
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: fact that their assumptions are incorrect. It's always they are
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: acting surprised by the fact that they didn't know everything
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: about your life.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: It's always interesting when somebody does tell you that a
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: pet passed away, because the range that they're they could
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: be feeling, Oh yeah, it's really hard to guess at right.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Whereas somebody says, my spouse passed away, you can just
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: put that in a box and you're like, I can
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: guess the side of the spectrum that's on. But when
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: somebody's like, my dog has cancer, some people are handling
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: that really well, and they're like, yeah, it's it's so shitty,
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: it's so unfortunate. I'm worried about my kids because they
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: love this dog like a sibling, and so I'm just
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: handling this and sometimes cancer, right, it like sometimes it's
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: like this dog means everything to me, And I think
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: that's what Foxy's trying to explain, is like I had
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: a miscarriage and adopted this dog instead, right, this is
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: my child.
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so yeah, that was another point to say that
• 46:05
  Speaker 5: I have a good friend. They got a dog when
• 46:10
  Speaker 5: when he was deployed. So it's just him and his wife.
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: So he was deployed to Afghanistan like years and years ago.
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: Their dog's probably forgive fifteen now, I don't know. So
• 46:18
  Speaker 5: he was deployed, she was by herself. They got the
• 46:21
  Speaker 5: dog like right before he left and came back, and
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: that is their baby. They don't have children, right, that
• 46:26
  Speaker 5: is their baby. Actually just on the way here, saw
• 46:28
  Speaker 5: a little posts they did like they're given her insulin.
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: I've seen them do the little they like. The dog
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: has you know torn that s acl and it's in
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: the water like treadmill thingy.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, yeah, but.
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: I remember years ago we were chatting with him and
• 46:44
  Speaker 5: we kind of just brought up in conversation like oh,
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: how much would you spend on your animal? It's like
• 46:48
  Speaker 5: your limit before you're like and I know.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: The wrong question because very different.
• 46:55
  Speaker 5: Yes, part of that's because I have never, like literally
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: never had a dog. Sometimes I think it's because I
• 47:02
  Speaker 5: know I would be fucking obsessed with it, right, Like
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: I I know it would be unhealthy, so and i'd
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: just be sad every time I left it.
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: So I just can't go into that. OKAYLM all right.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: How much would you spend on Peter? What's your upper limits?
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: We've already saved his okay, yeah, yeah.
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm grading.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, nothing, I'm not sinking anymore.
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: Someone's got to save him.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: You know, somebody tried to buy the website, like yeah,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: it turned out it was already bought, and it was
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: used to like there was like two priests or something
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: like that that were caught up in a scandal and
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: it was like save Peter and it was like legitimately
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: a GoFundMe or something to praise and so people were like, okay,
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: so it's pretty awful like on its face, and also,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: fuck the URL's taken.
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: So this was like.
• 47:50
  Speaker 5: Years years ago, you know, years and years ago, and
• 47:53
  Speaker 5: we were like on the page of like I mean,
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: I'll just be transparent. We're like, I don't know a
• 47:57
  Speaker 5: thousand and two thousand dollars, like we're not trying to
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: break the bank. I would be tore up, upset, like,
• 48:03
  Speaker 5: but it's your animal. So I'm just like, I don't know.
• 48:05
  Speaker 5: I'm just in that category. But they were like twenty
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: k right, and that was years ago. I don't want
• 48:11
  Speaker 5: to know what I think it'd be more or more like,
• 48:15
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: It's their child.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know. There's not a number for this.
• 48:18
  Speaker 5: You bring up a very important point. When when did
• 48:21
  Speaker 5: this animal become part of your family? And what purpose
• 48:25
  Speaker 5: was it serving? It was your emotional support animal or.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Another child to you because you lost a child and
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: adopted this puppy immediately.
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: So there is one thing I thought of when you
• 48:37
  Speaker 5: I hear I can't help but hear fatigue on people
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: asking about your husband, asking about your husband, they are
• 48:42
  Speaker 5: talking to you instead of him. And a friend of
• 48:45
  Speaker 5: mine got breast cancer years ago. She's only thirty, and what,
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: I she's good. Yeah, she recovered, but she had broast
• 48:55
  Speaker 5: cancer and at the time, instead of people feeling like
• 48:58
  Speaker 5: that to reach out and there's tons of updates, she
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: just created a little blog website.
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: I think it might have been the cancer, yes, but
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: it was great because like, here's.
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: My link I'm going to update it when I have
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: updates like whatever that is. And I loved that because
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: I would just go periodically check. I'm like, oh, I
• 49:15
  Speaker 5: wonder how how she's doing. Let me go see. And
• 49:18
  Speaker 5: so then nobody's like bombarding her. I mean, she flew
• 49:20
  Speaker 5: to Houston, did treatments and so, like she was gone
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: so and she's from Vegas. So I was just like
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: that she was doing it. But you want to know
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: what's happening. You don't want to bother them or people
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: are bothering you. And my kind of advice it might
• 49:34
  Speaker 5: be too late. Y'all are in the thick of it now,
• 49:36
  Speaker 5: but I would say start a little blog for your
• 49:38
  Speaker 5: dog and for your husband. Just say these are my
• 49:41
  Speaker 5: updates as family updates right tab for husband, tab for dog,
• 49:46
  Speaker 5: tab for kids. Whatever you want, like family, feel.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: Free to call me to visit, feel free to check
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: the website for updates.
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: Part of me feels like if it's just out there,
• 49:55
  Speaker 5: it's less opportunity for people to comment back and say
• 49:58
  Speaker 5: why are you wasting? Like they might think that still,
• 50:01
  Speaker 5: but they aren't telling you it and just berating you
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: with it, like.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: In front of other people.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Right because in it's social media, you know, then other
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: people can read that too.
• 50:11
  Speaker 5: Well, yeah, they're not going to do it there. It's like, oh,
• 50:13
  Speaker 5: now I'm the ship had been like just kill your dog,
• 50:15
  Speaker 5: like yeah, just type that out with your name attached.
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: Good luck.
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: But I don't know that was something I thought could
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: be helpful or for anyone else listening, because nobody is
• 50:24
  Speaker 5: used to navigating.
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: That's not something we're used to navigating. Like, yeah, a
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: spouse getting.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: We've done like a spokesperson type thing before as well.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: I like the blog better though, Well, we've done like
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: you know, call this person or this person is going
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: to disseminate updates on on so and so, like that's.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: That's the info person.
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: It's always like a family friend or something like that.
• 50:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but I'm sorry that is so emotionally taxing for
• 50:50
  Speaker 5: someone to go through and both at the same time,
• 50:53
  Speaker 5: and just I swear life. Life sometimes it just hits
• 50:58
  Speaker 5: you with a.
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: Lot or the dog ate the cancer riddled testicle, and
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: that's where the dog cancer came.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: I think that's how that works, and.
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: That's why you saved it.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: They did the lord's work.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: That's right. I assume.
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: I assume after they took the testical out, you brought
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: it home and then the dog ate the testicle.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming that's what's happening. That's not what happened.
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: It's a communical you find the dog the elpow right,
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: not that can you've all.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: That was coming to ABC on Friday nights.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just imagine it was something kind of like, uh,
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: like yeah, the dog. The dog took it on, kind
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: of like you know, in the Green Mile, like they.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: Just kind of there, you know, so you you famously
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: have puppies famously and they are getting up there.
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: I was wondering what and like, obviously.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: My dog died a couple of years ago, and I
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: was devastated and it was really hard because like when
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: you tell people like my dog died, like I was
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: saying earlier, they don't know how to react to you.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: And for me, the dog very much felt a lot
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: more like a child than a pet, you know.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: Right after Jim's dog died, we recorded a show that
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: ULV and The Raiders had both lost in the same weekend,
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: and Jim comes into the studio wearing a UNLV jersey
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: over a Raider's Jersey over a shirt with a picture
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: of his.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: Dog on it. Things are happening, buddy, all at once.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: But it's tough because people don't know how to respond
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: to you, because it's like, again, you're you're trying to
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: gauge what that person's reality is. And it's tough because
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: and I feel I feel for Foxy because I would
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: struggle when when this happened to me. I was having
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: a hard time telling people how much it hurt because
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: I felt insecure saying that because it didn't seem masculine
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: to talk about, like my dog died, and it's actually
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: destroying me because people would just kind of give me
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: the the the traditional correct sized response, right like, oh, buddy,
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry man, how long have you had the dog? Like, well, yeah,
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: like twelve years. Oh my goodness, that's terrible. Man. At
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: you go, well, you know, not peacefully, it was pretty bad.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: Oh Jesus, your family, Okay, how are the kids taking it?
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Not great? Oh? Gee'z hanging there buddy, and like they're
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: not doing anything wrong. But like I wouldn't necessarily feel
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: comfortable when people say, how are you telling them the truth?
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: And I really admire Foxy because fox is being brave
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: enough to say I'm not okay, right, And I think
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: that startles people because they're like, because of the dog thing,
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: what about your husband? And it's like all she's doing
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: is just I'm not ok about that either. Sure, but
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: like I'm being right to go fuck yourself. It hurts,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: It really hurts. It's hard to explain to people. Whenever
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: my dog died, I was so grateful for our Discord community.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: They were so kind. They wrote me this big, huge card.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: Nobody trivialized it, nobody minimized it, and and people in
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: the community who especially related, they reached out directly and
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: shared or shared in a card that they very much
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: related to the magnitude this had in their lives. And
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: people who did not relate to the magnitude were not
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: dismissive of my pain because I didn't match their pain, right,
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: They just said, hey, you're allowed to grieve at your
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: level whatever that is. I don't relate to you. I
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: put a dog down and I was okay with it,
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: but like, I'm not going to tell you how to feel,
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: Whereas in Foxy's case, people are very fucking quick to
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: do that, which I think they're they're quick to do
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: anyway with animals, but now they're doing it on top
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: of the fact because they're like your pain is invalid
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: because there's a greater thing over here, and just I
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: just relate to that, like I know what that feels like.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: As if you can't feel it grief for both at
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: the same right, right, right.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's yeah, and.
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: D spend your money on how you want to spend
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: your money on if the VET says that it's good
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: money and that you're going to get good months years
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: out of the out of the pet because of it
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: or whatever, like that's it your money.
• 54:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah, have you lost other I mean like had dogs before.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: Yep, I had another dog before.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And yeah, it's tough because they don't all you know,
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: dogs don't mean the same thing to everybody, you know,
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: Like I mean, if you're a dog person, then another
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: person has a dog, like okay, yeah, I get that,
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: but then there's also your individual relationship with that animal.
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: I agree.
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: I heard too many people with kids say like, oh,
• 55:17
  Speaker 5: I don't like other people's kids. I like my kids,
• 55:19
  Speaker 5: like I'm obsessed with them. Like I don't know, not
• 55:22
  Speaker 5: that they don't like kids, but it's I feel like
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: it's the same.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: Like the other dogs. The other dog that died, I
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: kind of inherited.
• 55:35
  Speaker 5: Okay after it, like yeah, here you go.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: So like, but it was still really difficult because you
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: know I was around that dog. I had that dog
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: for ship like nine years, so it was still long inheriting.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: And so then but like my two dogs, you know,
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: that's going to be really difficult because they were in
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: my life during a really difficult part of my life.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: You know. So like I got getting.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: When I got when I got divorced, like that's the
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: only thing I wanted, Like I don't want the house,
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: I don't want anything. I want the dogs. And so
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: I got the dogs, and they were kind of mice
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: and hindsight, do you wish you had got some of
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: those other things too.
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: I wish i'd taken the house.
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: And the dogs, I thought.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean that that was like it helped
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: me get through it. So like when they when they passed,
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: that's going to be very difficult.
• 56:40
  Speaker 4: That's so true.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: And it won't matter if there's other things going on
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: that are also terrible. There can be fresh horrors every
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: single day, Like it doesn't have to be this I
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: can only go through so much, like nope, each thing
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: can be horrible objectively on its own, and I just
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: I think we're all validating and I think the thing
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: is like it's kind of the sticker shot or the
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: sticker shock, but the shock that people are experienced because
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: they're like, oh my god, you know her husband is
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: going through this. Let me ask her and she says
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: something about the dog. It's like, well, okay, husband's doing good.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: This is the new thing now right. The other thing's
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: not bad and it's not going away. We're still dealing
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: with that.
• 57:16
  Speaker 5: They don't understand the full perspective, like when you got
• 57:19
  Speaker 5: the dog.
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: Went, you know what your attachment looks like. It's not
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: just a dog.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean so I guess you know, maybe
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: a different strategy is instead of you know, talking about
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: the dog, finds something else that's even more trivial.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, I can't. It's not even dead. It's
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: just not doing well. She's not blooming.
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: It seems a little I don't know, it doesn't seem
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: it doesn't seem unhealthy, but it's not really doing what
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: I wanted to do.
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: You paid a lot of money to get that.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: How's your husband doing?
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: Who oh, hopefully if he hopes to continue, well, he's
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: hopefully working out that fucking roads.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: Make sure it isn't out there helping.
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: I'll tell you that someone who understands my person my.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: Lemon tree only six lemons, the entire tree almost six limbs.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: I can't believe I can live like this anyway, Fox
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: shut them down.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: I really do hope that everybody in your life regains
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: their health, and that all these procedures ultimately come out successful.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Of course, we are glad to hear that so far,
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: knock on wood, so far, so good for both your
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: dog and your husband, and that ultimately everybody you love
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: is improving, and I hope that it stays that way.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: I really hope that that news does not change. But yeah,
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: just know that everybody on this side of the mic
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: relates to you. We support you. I think we're all
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: just on the same side. I like that you're being
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: gracious with your friends. You're not seeing them as villains.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: You're seeing them as incapable of grasping how your heart
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: can be destroyed by two different things, and those things
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: may not be perfectly equal. But you're asking the wrong
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: question it's not about equal, it's about damage. It's just
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: about I am wounded. That's it. Like if I got
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: shot by a shotgun on my left side and a
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: pistol on my right kind of fucking hurt, and it's like, oh,
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: you got shotgun right, Like that's the harder one. It's like, no,
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: they're just gaping fucking wounds in my chest. Like it's
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: just kind of a problem, no matter which I don't know.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: A second ago. It was on your sides and switching around.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be side of the ankle. You can't do.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: That's silly. It's just silly. It's your example. Anyway, Foxy,
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: thank you for all your support of the show, and
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: thank you for writing in and good luck with this.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: I hope to only hear good updates in the future.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: We are going to take a quick break and when
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: we come back, we are talking about chronic pain. You're
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: listening to pod therapy. Oh bye.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: Today's episode is brought to you by Robert Brownie, Junior,
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: Mint's Kayla Lansbury, Kevin Chamberlain, Ben Stanley, Adam Hathaway, Dan Martin,
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: Live Hey Yo, Andrew Langmead, Chad May and Inca le Prince,
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: would you like to spoust the show become a therapy
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: Patreon dot com slash therapy.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: Where we last left our heroes. I'm in the lead
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: ending two points. You're you tied with Nick. I think Nick,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: it's like five every time we all strike out, that
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: is true, I think so okay. I think he just
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: gets a touchdown every time it happens.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: Jim which US president kept a pet alligator in the
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: White House?
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: Oh my god?
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: What President Irwin? Which the way I know this is
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: old and outdated. Have you guys seen the the the
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: pictures of.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: Robert Irwin his son. Yeah, no, he did.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: He did like a photo shoot, like in his underwear
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: and like an underwear model type things like channel Yeah
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: you need to be Oh yeah, he's jacked.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: Okay. So that's the bunch line is that he's doing
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: very well.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: He's doing really looks he's doing okay, he's doing.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: What the mic there, jesus, I'll take options on that president?
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: What president the one.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: You're talking about before you start?
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: John Quincy Adams, huh, Teddy Roosevelt, Andrew Jackson or Calvin Cooliz.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: So the two that I was gonna guess are Teddy Roosevelt,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: who is such an ad like outdoors guy, interesting guy.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: I could see him doing it, and then psychopath. Yeah,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: the bear thing was Teddy, right, Okay, and then Andrew
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: because he's not the Teddy bear. And Andrew's also from
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: the South, so I feel like I could see a
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: wall with.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: Jim and Andrew Jackson are on a first name basis. Yeah, yeah, Andy,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: you know we go by that, all right.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: Give me give me all Hickory. I'll take Andy Jackson.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 4: Sorry, shit, what are the options again?
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: John Quincy Adams, Teddy Roosevelt, Andrew Jackson or Calvin Coolidge.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: Calvin, Now you gotta take the lay up? Yeah, give
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: me the give me the easy one. Give me uh
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: who was it was? I'll take Teddy.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: That's five points for Nick Oh, John Quincy Adams, John Quincy,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: Alligator Adams.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: Damn damn. I did not know that. I feel like
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: it's bullshit. I feel like I was just fucking lying.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: She has no explanations attached to these, and she knows
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: we're not going to look them up again.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: Only attach explanations are the ones that we are definitely
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: going to be interested interested in that Alligator's.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: Not googling a better tell us.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: That's right, all right, Whitney.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: During Prohibition, what was often prescribed by doctors as medicine.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: Medicine.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: I need options, really, you need options during prohibition? What
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: do you think it would be? Alcohol? For Christ's sake? Obviously,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: let's give her options and we'll see. Go ahead, how
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: this works out. You may proceeds.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: I feel like it's got to be a code name
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: for alcohol.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: That's what they're vodka, whiskey, rum or gin. All right?
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: So I was right, thought.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 5: Right, in an ironic world, I would have guessed gin.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: That feels the most medical.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: Well, and just like that time period, prohibition wasn't gin heavy?
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: That's what the laundry room says.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: Sure gin, No, okay, whiskey, yes, of course it's the whiskey,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: all right.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: It also looks like the John Quincy Adams thing is
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: a myth. Women He was given a pair of alligators
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: at an event, but there's no real record of him
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: actually keeping them.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: They were still in the White House.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: Long where do you put these? Oh?
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: It was rumored that he was keeping them in an
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: unfinished bathroom in the east wing.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: That feels right, okay, I'm back.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 5: To alligator Louisiana. That feels right, Yeah, that's true.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: Uh Jacob, Yes, what did ancient Greek athletes sometimes use
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: instead of clothes?
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: The Olympics was much darker. I mean you were going
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: there was just a little loube.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 4: Everyone uses lube gym.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: I don't could use loube gym. Listen, those dirty Greeks,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: they know what they did. What did they use instead
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: of during the Olympics. I didn't think they used anything closed.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: I thought they strap on competing. I thought I thought
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: the original Greeks competed nude.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: So your final answer, it could be sure, Yeah, going
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: for two?
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: Yes, high five for that one. I'm impressed.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: Angling around man, that's right. The wind it was that
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: let them be able to keep women from competing.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: It worked.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: It was sexist, the good old days.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, when men just wrestled other men, right, Greco Roman
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: that is though it were a condemnation as it came
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: out of my mouth, though I realized it sounded nice.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all fun. So I think I'm in. I
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: think it was just Greco. I'm winning. That's I think
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: I got ten points.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, next got a lot of points.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: I think I would second. I think I got three
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: points just at that round.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, Wow, I need.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: To go back to the good old days and we
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: all get naked and do some trivia.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: That way, Whitney can't play. Yeah, just the boys this time.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: Look at how smaller Dick is. Guys, here about what
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: I was gonna laugh into the mike. Witn't just like
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: fell over all right? Hello, I don't want to know
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: hello about their baker.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: I was going to compliment your penisank.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: You, thank you. The pump is working.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: The pump is working, the Swedish penis pump. This is
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: my bag baby, Hey, pod therapy crew, I'm reaching out
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: about my mother in law. She's in her late sixties,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: very tall, and has dealt with hip and chronic pain
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: for years. She's had multiple surgeries, ligament repair, hip replacement,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: vascular surgery, back injections, each helping briefly, but the pain
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: always returns. Doctors now can't find any physical explanation. On
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: top of that, she spent nearly her entire life prioritizing
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: thinness and appearance over health, despite having basically unlimited resources.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: Her diet is poor, mostly just processed food, no fruits
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: and veggies, et cetera. She avoids preventive care, she vapes,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: drinks diet coke constantly, and spends nearly all day watching
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: the news. What used to be quirky sass has turned
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: into overwhelming negativity and her world has shrunk to almost nothing.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: We planned a Disney cruise with both sets of parents
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: to make memories, went all out on rooms and private cabanas,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: and my in laws never engaged in the planning. Now,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: only weeks before the trip, she began railing against the
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: whole idea, saying she hates Disney, doesn't want to be
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: around kids, and refuses to participate. A few days ago,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: my father in law confided that she may need a
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: wheelchair just to get around, and that it feels like
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: she's given up. My husband wonders if this could be
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: depression or BPD showing up as chronic pain, especially since
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: her own mother likely had untreated depression and alcoholism. However,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: she refuses to even acknowledge that mental health is a thing,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: which is slightly comical since I, her daughter in law,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: am a therapist and counselor educator and really in training.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: Happy face. The situation is as scalated further. Yesterday the
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: morning before leaving, we received a tearful call from my
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: father in law that he cannot even get out of
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: bed to go to the bathroom. It's the end, and
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: my husband needed to come say goodbye alone before leaving
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: on the cruise, which they were unable to attend. We
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: moved flights around and made it happen where he flew
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: into the airport by them, before renting a car and
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: driving across the state to join me and my parents
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: near the port where we leave tomorrow morning. He informed
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: us that now she suddenly believes she's dying of cancer. No,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: she cannot say which cancer she has or where it is,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: despite having no symptoms.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: Yes, a second, Yeah, he couldn't get out of bed,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: or he couldn't get her out of here.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: I think she can't get out of bed. So I
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: think the message was we're not going to be able
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: to make it. She can't get out of bed. Could
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: you come over and say goodbye? Yes, not goodbye she's
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: dying though, Oh I thought it was goodbye. She was dying. Yeah,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: that was the vibe of the message. I don't my
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: hypothesis is that's not what they were saying. I don't
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: think they would go to a crew directly after that.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: You think he would drive across state to tell her
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: goodbye before he left on a cruise.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: Though, let's keep reading. Let's let's figure out where this. No, no, no,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: let's we've got enough information. Let's just go through, all right.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: I'll just ask about the one typo. He informed us
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: that now she suddenly believes she's dying of cancer. No,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: she cannot say which cancer she has or where it is,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: despite having no symptoms, no tests, and refusing to seek
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: any evaluation when questioned. She just knows and there is
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: nothing anyone can do. My father in law wants to
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: take her to the millio clinic and run every test
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: they possibly can. She adamantly opposes and believes there is
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: no point she's near death, et cetera. And she is
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: also refusing to eat. My poor father in law is
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: beside himself. So here's our question. How can family support
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: someone who doesn't believe in mental health but shows well
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: all of this, plus refuses to try new treatments or
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: even get checked for conditions she insists she has and
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: has this essentially given up. How do we help her?
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: And my father in law, who is desperate find any
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: hope or a path forward. You are all the best.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: Thank you so so much for all of your insight
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: and help. If you want to say who it is,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: that's fine. If you want to say anonymous, totally cool.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: Or come up with some fun anonymous names or like
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: Pony Soprano's parents or something like that works too. Thank you,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: Signed anonymous, adorable.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 4: We'll never know who is whoever?
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: This mysterious? That was fun, all right, So we need
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: to agree on an operational theory of how we're understanding this.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: I get the vibe the letters about mother in law.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: Father in law is saying, I guess you guys need
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: to come over here and say goodbye, because mother in
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: law is dramatic, putting her hand to her forehead and
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: feigning and saying, this is it, son, come say goodbye
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: to me.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: I don't think so, okay, I think the I think
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: the dad is called calling the sun and saying you
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: need to come here and say goodbye to your mother.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, before you guys leave for this cruise.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: Because if he weren't saying that, he wouldn't be talking
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: about things like the Mayo Clinic and everything else.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, my dad wants to take mom to the Mayo clinic. Right,
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: I see, So maybe he's saying, come engage with your
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: mother because I think we're going to have to do
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: an episode of healthcare or something.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: Like she might be feels she might be dead by
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: the time you get back from the cruise. That's how
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: I took it.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: And I wonder how much husband believes in it, because
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: writer whoever she is, she's saying like, hey, look, our
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: impression is this is inside of mother in law's mind,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: that this is hypochondria, right, mixed with an anxiety to verify,
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: so like too afraid to look into it, and somehow
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: maybe even somatically projecting physical symptoms. So she's maybe really
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: experiencing pain. She's going through things. She won't properly investigate
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: what those are. Her personal health and self care is poor.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: She seems to have a lot of fear, and she
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: gets herself all wound up. That's probably exacerbating her experience
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: of pain, but she won't take practical steps to solve this,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: Like when when husband is saying, I will literally take
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: you to the world's best clinic, she declines, and she's
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: almost just saying all all is lost. I it sounds
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: like she winds husband up as well. She winds that
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: up as well. At a minimum, he's frightened. Sure, yeah,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: and I'm sure he's, like the writer says, beside himself,
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: you know, unsure what he's going to do. Your spouse
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: says she's dying and can't get out of bed. You
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: can you take that serious? Yeah?
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I would hope.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 5: So, even if it does seem kind of exaggerated like that,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 5: that's kind of what we do for our partners.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 4: It's like, you believe them, right.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 5: That's really tough on the husband and for you watching
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 5: somebody not believe in mental health. Yeah, very relatable. I
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 5: feel like it's don't you dear parents?
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 4: Are they like would they go to a therapist?
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: Both have been geez.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 4: I thought about this.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 5: So that I'm like, it'd be weird if my parents
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 5: were like, I'm going to therapy, Like, oh my god,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 5: what Either of them never mentioned therapy.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: Really, Karen wouldn't see a therapist. I know we see
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: her all the time. That's so weird socially.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 4: Uh huh. So I don't know.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 5: My strategy here would be like instead of trying to
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 5: fight it or argue or not argue, but you know, push.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: Back, right, debate the facts.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 4: Debate Yeah, I like that word better.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 5: Instead of trying to debate the facts, maybe just kind
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 5: of go into like, all right, she's saying these things.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 5: Let's take her at face value. Not that you have
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 5: to believe it per se, but take it at face value.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 4: You don't want to come on the cruise.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 5: You don't want to do these things, Okay, you let
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 5: us know what you need from us, right, Like, I
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 5: wonder what she'd say.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a tough situation.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 4: It's really with borderline.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to be in that situation with somebody
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: that like they're convinced that they're dying. And when you
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: ask like, okay, so what are you experiencing? What tells
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: you that?
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: I just know? Oh, also, day that you're supposed to
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 3: leave for a cruise, that you announced a couple of
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: weeks ago that you were against.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 4: It, and they were going to go on the cruise
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 4: with you, and they backed out.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: Which means that they're out the cash.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 3: Like the writer was nice and didn't just say like
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: we're all out this cash too, but I bet they are.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 5: I feel like she's going through something. I do think
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 5: you're onto something with the like irritability and all that
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 5: coming with like being tied to depression and something.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: The mental health conditions exacerbate this. I had a patient,
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: uh in the past who had a situation kind of
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: similar to this where her mother was diagnosed with cancer,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: and so that was that was known, this had been revealed,
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: and when patient went to mom and said, so, Mom,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: we need to address this. We need to deal with this.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: We need you to get tested, me to understand all
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: this stuff. We need to understand what to do. Mother said,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: I choose not to. I am going to die. I've
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: accepted this. I'm too frightened to look into this, and
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: so I'm just going to live my life without looking
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: at it, and then one day I will pass away
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: from this. Because all they knew is that yes, you
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: have cancer, no clue as to how severe and how
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: far along. And so the patient and her siblings were
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: all trying to say, Mom, please, you know, look into this.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: Mom would not do it. So the way that we
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: ultimately helped in this case was sitting down with patient
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: and I kind of taught the patient motivational interviewing techniques
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: and Motivational interviewing as a theory is something that was
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: designed for addictions treatment to roll with resistance. When you're
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: dealing with somebody that you need them to take action,
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: but they're unwilling to take this action even though that
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: is in their best interest, and they're doing all kinds
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: of mental gymnastics to avoid and pointing in all the
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: wrong directions. Motivational interviewing is this whole theory set and
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: this language model for how you can slowly direct somebody
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: toward good choices. And in this case, the patient kind
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: of trained in this for a little while, sat down
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: with siblings. They all kind of collaborated and they went
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: over the playbook together and ultimately they were successful. They
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: sat down with mom and said, look, we respect your
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: right to not look into this, but Mom, if you
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: do not learn what kind of cancer this is and
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: how far along it is, you're dooming us to never
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: have that information. And this could be genetic. Now don't
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: you want us to know what is killing our mother
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: so that we can save ourselves? And that ended the argument.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: Mom was like, oh, well, fuck, checkmate, yep, let's go,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: and so immediately did all the correct tests, got it
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: all figured out and then through that discovered what treatments
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: were available and started getting it treated and ultimately had
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: a great deal of success with that. So like in
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: these kinds of scenarios, sometimes it's really hard because you
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: want to argue factually or you want to have a
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: conversation about what you ought to do right and say, look,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: this doesn't make sense, here's why A doesn't equal B.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: But like sometimes you just have to meet them emotionally
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: where they're at, because the emotional fusion with the physical
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: pain or physical symptoms. You're right, anonymous writer who is
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: possibly a therapist, then a horse owner, These things cannot
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: be separated. Right there, The Venn diagram is a circle.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: But because you are a therapist, then I would tell
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: you then you have to use your therapeutic toolkit. Things
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: like motivational interviewing. Treat this like a human who is
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: in a pre contemplation stage or a contemplation stage of
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: change that is only vaguely aware that there are problems
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: in the first place, and trying to get them to
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: nudge over to the next stage of change that might
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: be borrowing from motivational interviewing techniques, but especially with this idea,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: of cancer. If Mom says I know I have cancer.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: I just know it. I'm going to die, but I
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: don't want to look into it. I could see your
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: husband going to mom and pulling the exact same play
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: I did, yeah, and saying, look, Mom, I believe you. You're
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: probably right. You know your own body. You've gone through
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: so much mysterious pain and mysterious stuff. But Mom, if
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: you don't figure out what it is, I may get
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: hit by the same bullet. I need you to help
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: me so that I don't get this, And a lot
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: of mothers are like, ugh, fuck, Okay, I guess now,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: I'll do it. Do your own work. I'm not going
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: for you. You figure it out. So that would be
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: my big best advice in this situation.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: Either need you to go to the doctor, mom, or
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 3: taking your blood to the doctor.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: One way or another.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 3: Your blood is leaving here and going to the doctoress
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 3: will with it or not, it's up to you. I
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 3: hope it's a violin not a pint, but I'm willing
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 3: to take whatever comes out of you.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: I can jug if needed.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: I definitely like the concept of being able to roll
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: with the resistance, because that's kind of your only option
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: at this point, like you can't you can't force somebody
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: to do something that they don't want to do. You
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: just kind of have to be able to go along
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: with that. And that's I think they're really frustrating part,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: especially for someone that you care about. They're like, Okay,
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: I don't think that you are dying. I don't believe
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: that's to be the case. But also it bothers me
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: that you are okay with it. I think that's the
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: thing that's difficult for family membership here. It's just the
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: difference suffering.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 5: That is literally what I was about to go to next.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 5: I kind of went back to that first paragraph. I'm like, damn, mom,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 5: is it has been through. She just had all those surgeries.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 5: She has chronic, chronic pain that has no explanation. And
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 5: although I will not sympathize with Peter, I very much
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 5: sympathize with this mom pain.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah no, but.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 4: For real, I mean, on a side note, watching Peter
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 4: go through.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 5: Just ten days, it is hard to watch when you're like,
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 5: oh my god, there's just pain all the time, constant,
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 5: like pain that keeps you from sleeping, that keeps you
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 5: from like I would be a miserable bitch. If I
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 5: had been through certain yeah more than I am now,
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 5: way more than I am.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: To g I wouldn't say that Whitney's miserable.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I would be miserable. I would be miserable, not
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 4: just a bit. Now I'm just a bitch. Okay, I'm
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 4: a happy bitch.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: Do you think about diseases like fibromyaldra, right, Like chronic
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: pain that's very much real but is also linked to emotion, right,
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: and so like, what's so profound about this? And we
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: had a question about this several weeks ago that talked
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: about chronic pain, and like the suffering and stress that
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: comes with the pain and the management of the pain
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: creates this feedback loop where you're you're now feeling elevated
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: and anxious and frightened for this pain and bracing against
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: this pain and discourage about this pain, and those emotions
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: actually get interpreted by the brain as pain signals, and
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: so there you are suffering even more and it's all
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: very real. And when we say it's all in your head,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: it sounds dismissive, but actually what we mean is because
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: pain as a concept only exists inside of the nervous system,
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: of the body and that is a brain thing. So
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: it is all technically in your head, because clearly there's
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: not it. Yeah, tell Peter, Yeah, the nerve pinched in
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: your spine is all in your head. Jim said so,
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: and he's a current that all my friends think you're dumb,
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: save Peter dup is so. Yeah, but no, I think
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: that this is very relevant in that case because you
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: know the mother is probably going through something very similar
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: and there is I think a healthcare fatigue at some
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: point where mom has clearly gone through so many tests,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: so many procedures, and when you're like, Mom, you gotta
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: go to the mail clinic, call me to figure this.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 4: Out, and she's like, I'm tired.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: I just want to I'm gonna die, and like something
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: cathartic about that, just giving up, saying my goodbye. I
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: don't have to keep working at this, I don't have
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: to fighting this. Throwing myself into the.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 5: Despair and maybe giving it like names like cancer or
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 5: whatever she wants to give to it is feels validating.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 5: Validing her honestly, even if she's making that up, she's
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 5: just saying that so you will take her seriously and
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 5: just leave for sure, of it.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because if you say, well, what's causing your suffering?
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: I don't fucking know. So let's call the mystery thing cancer.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: Well what kind of cancer? I don't need to tell you.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: I know something's wrong. I am in chronic pain, and
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: it sounds like what people with cancer live with. So
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: like I empathize with her on that point. And it
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: is tough, right because like you put on the therapist
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: hat for a second, and if you had to pay,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: if this mother in law was your patient, we would
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: have an ethical obligation to respect her autonomy, right, and
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: her medical autonomy. Maybe I choose not to pursue treatments.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: I choose not to pursue these angles, and I would
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: still take an m I approach to sort of like
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: make sure that we're knocking on all good ideas and
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: seeing if any of those could become persuasive to her.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: But there is also this room to say, I have
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: to give respect to your personal autonomy. I wouldn't feel
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: that way if I was your son, but I would
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: feel that way if I was her therapist.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's a tough situation.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: I always look at you know again, kind of going
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: back to the U. I guess the analogy or the
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: explanation of physical pain and emotional pain. I always imagine
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: it kind of like a baseball inside of a basketball.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 4: Yes analogy, yes.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, so much better than gym analogy.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 3: So surprised there's not a golf ball. Uh, we haven't
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 3: got that small of a ball yet. Oh okay, yeah, patient, No, it's.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: A you know, the baseball is kind of the physical
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: pain and the basketball is the emotional pain, you know.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: So it's like the golf ball is the soul. Oh
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: there is. It's just a golf ball. It's just why
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: is it here? Don't worry about it that. It's fine.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: It's a titleist. It's not part of the story. It's
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: always the through.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, being able to deal with the emotional
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: pain doesn't mean that the physical pain goes away. It
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: just means that it's a whole lot more manageable when
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: you've eliminated half of that equation.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I like that. And if a person is
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: unwilling to get care and this is part of their
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: experience unfortunately, I mean I I don't like a person
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: putting themselves in the hospice not eating at that point,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: we're having a conversation about does this need to be
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: a legal two thousand? Yeah? Right? Because if I have
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: no evidence that you're dying of an actual physical disease,
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: and you're what appears to be mental emotional behavioral functions,
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: are what is now causing you actual medical problem? If
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: you're starving yourself, you're not eating, right, you're your lack
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: of care. At that point, I'm calling a nine to
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: one one. At some point, if this goes on for
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: too long, and if father in law cannot persuade mother
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: to eat, not go to care, then at some point
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: I'm taking this decision out of her hands. Right, And
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: we're gonna meet as a family. We're gonna talk about this, uh,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: and we're gonna to talk to mom before that happens.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: I think we're gonna have an honest sit down.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 3: You're gon have a conversation with mom and say like, hey,
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 3: we don't know what to do here. Yeah we want
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: to we want to help with this, but you're gonna
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 3: have a serious conversation about that with mom.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: Right. Observing you kill yourself slowly is not an option, right,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: We can't do that. We're not options. Are You're going
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: to have to make some amount of behavior change, which
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: can look like pursuing care, or it can look like
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: self care, or we're gonna go ahead and admit you psychiatric,
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: which you know the therapist in this story does not
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: have to exert those powers over state lines or anything
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: like that. That is just a typical non emergency phone
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: number call to the state authorities to let them know
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: this is our situation, and they'll send out an assessor.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: They'll do an evaluation and they'll say, yeah, this person's malnourished.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: They're they're clearly emaciated. Uh I'm reading, I'm hearing the
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: reports of all their loved ones and they're telling me
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: they're suffering. We are not going to continue this. This
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: is not just going to continue unobated. So if it
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: gets to that point, anonymous rider who owns horses, I
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: think that's gonna have to be something you as a
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: family consider and that may be the intervention she needs.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: When you get the little sticky socks and Jello at
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: the psych hospital and you see people that are screaming
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: at the ceiling, it's a wake up call for a
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: lot of people to think carefully about where they're at
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: and what they're motivated to do right now, So that'd
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: be a hard final option. But I think before we
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: just let somebody die on the couch, that has to
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: be something we've considered as a family, especially if they're
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: unwilling to have conversations any other direction. Are really good
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: at that, that's called good.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, anyway, Sorry, sorry you're dealing with all that.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a lame. You can start to vacation if
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: you need people to join the Disney cruise. I mean,
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: some dikets. I'm not going, even though it's on my
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: forty by forty list? Should I go? Should I just
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: fucking do it? You don't, I don't. I didn't hear
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: you get invited? Okay, Well, I think the whole point
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: of the letter was, Hey, we got a couple of spots.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: Couples can't get that refund. You know, you can't get
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: refunds from a cruise that fast, so I would bet
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: you can't. Maybe we redeem.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 4: The cruise credits, probably, Nick, would.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: You go on a cruise with me?
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 3: If this mysterious writer called us right now, we've got
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 3: we've got to Oh, come on, man, there, you don't
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 3: have to hang out with me on a cruise with
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 3: Jim tomorrow, just to laugh at Jim on a cruise.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: He's just following me around. I don't have to do
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: anything with him on the cruise. I don't know. He's
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: not my responsibility of the cruise. I think you have
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: a gentleman's responsibility that if I fall off.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: I would do it from like a journalistic perspective. Yeah,
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: like I would want to record it, like Charles Darwin,
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: just filling me around with a journal.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 3: Like here's a newly discovered species that we need to
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 3: learn about. Watches, He tries to understand how shuffle board works.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: He's almost got it. He's getting there.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: This asshole keeps taking the same plate back in the buffet.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: It's the same whatever. We have a water crisis, ma'am. Anyway,
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: we are gonna.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 3: Take quick breaking in when we haven't noticed that he
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 3: and his wife are sharing one drink package.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: Drinking right from the listenerine bottle. We're taking quick breaking.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: When we come back, we're wrapping up the show. You
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: are listening to pod Therapy.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: Today's episode is brought to you by Robert Brownie, Junior,
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• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: All right, end of trivia. I think we got it.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: I got a couple more if you want, yeah, throw
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: throw one more out there, get one rapid fire.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: In the eighteenth century. In eighteenth century France, what color
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: was reversed was reserved only for royaltyware.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, purple, damn it, it's gotta be. It's always purple.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: It's not purplel rain. Nope, purple rain.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 5: Oh.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 3: I just listened to that whole album this last week.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 3: That album is so good it is.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: You can't say blue. You said green.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 4: I've said a lot of things.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: I'm going with gold. I believe women, Thank you. I
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: believe women. And you're correct, it's blue.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 4: I finally got half a point by that.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: I think which founding father wanted the Turkey to be
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: Wes National Bird.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, beIN Franklin. Correct, Oh my god.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: In nineteen twenty four, what unusual event was part of
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: the Paris Olympics?
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: In what year?
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: Nineteen twenty four.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 4: Uh no, underwater basket weaving.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: No, no, here are your options competitive painting, cheese rolling,
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: horseback soccer or egg juggling.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: Egg juggling please be I'm gonna go with the horseback
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: soccer because it sounds way too close to an actual
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: sports five points for Nick. It's competitive painting. That is
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: a very French Olympics.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 3: I just feel like they would do that just so
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 3: they could tell everybody how bad their art is.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: That is is one My pay is the best pay.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: I am la champion. French art is great. Yeah, all
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: right to ask the French which US president got stuck
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: in the White House bathtub? And yep, taft, yep, oh
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: got back that taft. They made a special bathtub for him.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 3: He's a big he's a big guy that I think
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 3: he'd be considered slightly overweight today. Yes, by today's standards,
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 3: I believe it would be. Yeah, I believe it'd be
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 3: uh fine. You wouldn't even be big enough to be
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 3: like on an NFL team. He's like way too small.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 3: He would not even shop in the plus size of
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 3: the story. I'm about to look it up over under
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 3: on uh Taft's weight before before he looks.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: Are we doing prices right? But no, we don't highest
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: without going over right close to that going on? I
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: think yeah, I think highest going over, That's that's about
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: the day. I'm in. I'll go to sixty. Let's see.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: Oh no, he broke two hundred. He broke three hundred,
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: all right, about six feet.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 4: He's a big dude.
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: Topped out at three forty three fifty four. That's six
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: NEVERI that's a that's a larger Yeah.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 3: I withdraw my comment. Considered slightly overweight.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: I would feel that very safe with Taft as an
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: offensive lineman.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: If I was the QB, that's my center, I'm in great. Yeah,
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: I'll be just fine. He's throwing dudes. As we wrap
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: up the show, we want to remind you you can
• 1:30:43
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• 1:30:50
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• 1:30:55
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• 1:31:00
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• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: Sorry, I was looking up how I was looking at
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: how Napoleon was there. You go, all right, new therapeyalace
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: Sam wekay, and we got a new therapod. Joshua Schultz.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 3: Welcome, josh Welcome to the Napoleon.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: Well, that's what's weird.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: He says five to two, But then it says in English,
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: in like the meters. No, then it says five foot
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: six point five inches in English measure he.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 3: Was around five foot six according to his death certificate.
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 3: Those autopsy height was listed at five to two due
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 3: to the different inch measurement used by the British autopsy team.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the French units. Okay, a measurement based on French units.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: So what is he in fahrenheit? How much water does
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: he displace? Yeah, that's how i's yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 3: Napoleon Bonapart was approximately six feet or five six and
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 3: a half inches one hundred sixty nine centimeters for our
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 3: euro listeners, and which was just above average for a
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 3: fringeman of that time.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: Per Okay, all right, I've always thought of him as
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: an average Frenchman. We'd like to thank the benevolent, revered, generous,
• 1:32:16
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• 1:32:19
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• 1:32:23
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• 1:32:27
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• 1:32:29
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• 1:32:33
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• 1:33:10
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• 1:33:12
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• 1:33:15
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• 1:33:19
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• 1:33:21
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• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: That's all the time for this week session. I want
• 1:33:24
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• 1:33:27
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• 1:33:30
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• 1:33:33
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• 1:33:51
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  Speaker 2: to our anonymous Google form. I'm Nick Tansmin, I'm Jim,
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: and we'll see if your appointment next week.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 4: Did y'lsee I got a point back from Trivia last week.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: No discord?
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 4: Oh he said that? Uh?
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 5: I was right about who played Oh.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: That didn't see that it was the Joker, Yeah, the joker.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: It was Mark Hamill. It was yeah, And I defended
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: you when it was going down. I said it was
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: Mark Hamills. She is right, terrible Nick over here. Yeah,
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: And then the internet rose up in one voice and
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: was like, definitely Mark, Yeah, he got him mixed up.
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: You put the voice to Batman.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 3: I think it means I get the point, doesn't It didn't.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 3: I guess Mark Hamill first, and I thought it was wrong.
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: I think the rule is in this particular situation, I
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: get the point.
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: That makes sense. I think the force gets the point.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 3: For the autopsy person. You know the story about the
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 3: autopsy person steal Napoleon's penis. No, the British autopsy doctor.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 3: This is a story that is like mostly accepted as fact.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 3: Uh, the British autopsy doctor cut his penis off and
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 3: uh had it smuggled back to France. Wow, there's a family,
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 3: I wonder, Yeah, exactly, there's a family in the US
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 3: now that that owns it. Uh, Like it's been checked
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 3: and like they can tell that it's a human penis,
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 3: they can't tell for sure that it's Napoleon's penis.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: They can tell it's a French penis. How Jim all
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: the marigold and you know a French penises are highly ornamented.
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: I love that it. Then you know somebody had to
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: ask her questions. No, no, this is not penis. This
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: is mine. Clab it, foot.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 3: Hose, days stepped on cheese day, dish its tasty.
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 7: You have a packet, a blanket? Is this the basic thing? See,
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 7: I'm friends, we were.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: Goodbye everybody,