Latest / The Right Time with Bomani Jones / Steven Godfrey on Transfer Portal Problems, Lane Kiffin LSU-Ole Miss Madness, Nick Saban Concerns | 01.07

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Steven Godfrey on Transfer Portal Problems, Lane Kiffin LSU-Ole Miss Madness, Nick Saban Concerns | 01.07 · The Right Time with Bomani Jones

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to The Right Time, a WAVE original.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: My name is Beaumontie Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you
• 0:11
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  Speaker 1: rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: a hater. It is the time of week where we
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: have a guest join us. We have had him before.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: I think this is the first time he's been like
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: a full-on actual factual guest, which is my fault. Check
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: him out on the podcast, Split Zone Duo, Talking College Football.
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  Speaker 2: Stephen Godfrey, how are you, sir? I'm good, man. I'm
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: all over this year. Yeah, I've been doing too much,
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  Speaker 2: but I'm glad we could talk because as we were
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: joking before we turned the mics on, we tend to
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  Speaker 2: have these conversations in Our corporate media friends tend to
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: do that thing and they start clenching up where we
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: start classifying the business of college football for what it is. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: you are one of my favorite seedy underbelly guys, right?
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  Speaker 2: I love it. Fascinated.
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  Speaker 1: College football-wise, we traffic in similar circles, right? The old
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  Speaker 1: SB Nation circle, which is people fascinated by the madness
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  Speaker 1: of this more than anything else. Like, wait a minute,
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  Speaker 1: how is this real life, right? Like, how is this
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  Speaker 1: actually a thing that does make money? Though it's a
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  Speaker 1: very important distinction, I always say. College sports exist to
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  Speaker 1: make money, not to make profits.
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  Speaker 2: Those are not the same thing. Absolutely. In fact, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I think the genesis of my professional reputation was I
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  Speaker 2: was sitting in an editorial meeting with our mutual friend
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Spencer Hall, and he was asking me about something that
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  Speaker 2: was happening, and I told him something that wasn't known yet,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: and he said, well, how'd you know that? I said, oh,
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  Speaker 2: you know, this bag man told me. And he goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
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  Speaker 2: He goes, let's talk about that. And so we kind
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  Speaker 2: of broke the cardinal rule, man. You never talk about
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: those people, right? Everybody knew about those people. And this
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  Speaker 2: is like circa 2013. You know, when we were still all,
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  Speaker 2: kids were still in love with the game and I
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  Speaker 2: love your facilities and all this stuff. In fact, I
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: can kick it off for you. I got dragged yesterday
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  Speaker 2: because I mentioned that these kids committing to Texas Tech Bo,
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  Speaker 2: they might be doing it for the money.
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  Speaker 3: All right?
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  Speaker 2: They might be doing it for the money. Because, exactly,
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  Speaker 2: here's where I want to go with this. Cincinnati has
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  Speaker 2: quarterback Brendan Sorsby. We've got this really weird valuation going
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  Speaker 2: on in quarterback play in college football, right? Fernando Mendoza
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  Speaker 2: is probably going to be number one pick. Go to
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  Speaker 2: the Raiders, right? Cam Ward last year goes to Titans
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  Speaker 2: after starting at Incarnate Word, right? Unrecruited out of high
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  Speaker 2: school in Texas. So we've got this strange phenomenon going on,
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  Speaker 2: but that doesn't bother me so much because quarterback evaluation
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  Speaker 2: has always been weird. But the money being pumped in
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  Speaker 2: is wild. So this kid's leaving the University of Cincinnati.
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  Speaker 2: He's talking to LSU. He's talking to Texas Tech. He
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  Speaker 2: ends up settling on Texas Tech. We think it's $ 5 million, okay?
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  Speaker 2: Certain individuals in the larger media structure who maybe work
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  Speaker 2: for entities that have big fat TV contracts with some
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  Speaker 2: of these teams and conferences, they portray this commitment as,
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  Speaker 2: you know what? Hey, Bomani, he fell in love. with
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  Speaker 2: the great facilities and the culture at Texas Tech, to
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  Speaker 2: which I just simply retweeted and posted. I said, it
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  Speaker 2: was the money. And look, I have no problem with
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  Speaker 2: what's going on in Lubbock. In fact, I think it's
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  Speaker 2: a fascinating change in college sports, because I'm sure you're
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  Speaker 2: going to ask me about Ole Miss and Indiana and
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  Speaker 2: all these schools that have kind of redefined the game, right?
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  Speaker 2: That's all fine. But we still need to call the
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  Speaker 2: thing what it is, okay? And what it is, is
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  Speaker 2: that Nobody really goes to Lubbock, Texas, all due respect,
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  Speaker 2: and says, I'm in love. Right? Nobody goes to Lubbock,
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  Speaker 2: Texas and just says, oh my God. One, beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. Two,
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  Speaker 2: you know what I love here? The culture. I love
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  Speaker 2: the ping pong table in the locker room. Man, all
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  Speaker 2: that is done. We don't have to talk like that anymore.
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  Speaker 2: And so I find it fascinating that we're still being
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  Speaker 2: made to talk like that. Let's just say that the
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  Speaker 2: kid got a $ 5 million hard offer. From Texas Tech,
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  Speaker 2: and he's going to play a season of football for
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  Speaker 2: $ 5 billion. There's nothing wrong with that. Right.
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  Speaker 1: But also in a world now where we got 3,000,
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  Speaker 1: 4,000 kids in the transfer portal, these are people throwing
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  Speaker 1: it out there in many cases, though not all.
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  Speaker 2: See if I can get a raise, right? See if
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  Speaker 2: I can get a little bump in money.
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  Speaker 1: And I do think it's important to note, and this
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  Speaker 1: is a big part of why it was so important
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  Speaker 1: to me that players do receive compensation and why it's
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  Speaker 1: important that we get to this revenue sharing era where
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  Speaker 1: it's not just tied to this money laundering of, you know,
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  Speaker 1: we're giving you this for endorsements. I don't see these
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  Speaker 1: cats in no commercials. You know what I'm saying?
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  Speaker 2: Like, that's not... Like, that's... We're still telling that lie.
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  Speaker 1: Even if we start with the lie of, you know,
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  Speaker 1: they're doing it for the love or anything else, NIL
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  Speaker 1: itself has become a lie.
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  Speaker 2: Like, I never dreamed that it would turn into what
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  Speaker 2: it was.
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  Speaker 1: Because I was like, these kids don't really have that
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  Speaker 1: much value as endorsers to justify the money.
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  Speaker 2: And then it was like, endorsers?
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  Speaker 1: So.
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  Speaker 2: I call that the– that is probably the Spencer Rattler
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  Speaker 2: experiment because it feels like 10 years ago. But when
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  Speaker 2: Spencer Rattler got the NIL bag the first time from Oklahoma,
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  Speaker 2: it was all still sort of routed in a clean way,
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  Speaker 2: which is that he was going to do– he was
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  Speaker 2: going to come on and– shill for a car dealership
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  Speaker 2: or something like that do you hey do you remember
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  Speaker 2: how quaint and funny do you remember uh decoldus crawford
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  Speaker 2: from nebraska hey with the air conditioner commercial air conditioner
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  Speaker 2: we're all like damn that's hilarious wow this is funny
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  Speaker 2: this isn't hurting anybody right we're all good here this
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  Speaker 2: is the modern game they they look they dispense with
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  Speaker 2: that endorsement crap in like five seconds all right this
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  Speaker 2: is just straight up what it is which is pay
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  Speaker 2: for play.
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  Speaker 1: Right and so everybody dips their toe in they try
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  Speaker 1: to figure out they can get a little more money
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  Speaker 1: somewhere else Long run, it's probably not going to prove
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  Speaker 1: to be good for the majority of the players, but
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  Speaker 1: most of them have a short-term window on being able
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  Speaker 1: to get generally any money Let alone the numbers that
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  Speaker 1: we're hearing. A dude that just played for Cincinnati. We're
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  Speaker 1: just talking about him getting $ 5 million. And all I'm
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  Speaker 1: saying is nobody told me about him yet.
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  Speaker 2: I haven't seen him play. Maybe he is excellent.
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  Speaker 1: But I would think that if he was going to
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  Speaker 1: get $ 5 million, somebody would have hit me and been like, hey, man,
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  Speaker 1: you know, they got this dude at Cincinnati.
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  Speaker 2: You might want to check him out. No, it's not.
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  Speaker 2: And that's the weird thing is it's not like what
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  Speaker 2: you and I are used to. It's not the, oh,
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  Speaker 2: my God, you got to go check this kid out.
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  Speaker 2: That still is kind of reserved for high school.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 2: Like one of the secrets that Miami's, you know, getting
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  Speaker 2: as far as they have to this point is that
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  Speaker 2: they're still doing that thing in high school. Right. Like
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  Speaker 2: the kid named Baby Jesus, he's getting that attention when he's,
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  Speaker 2: you know, 15, 16. So that still happens. The thing
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  Speaker 2: that we're all trying to process and look, I don't
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  Speaker 2: know if I don't want to get into a competition,
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  Speaker 2: but at least as a sort of a former hard
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  Speaker 2: news reporter. I was about as pro player as a
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  Speaker 2: human being could just because I used my own eyes
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  Speaker 2: for 10 years in this business and saw the ridiculous disparity.
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  Speaker 2: But I don't know if I ever saw it getting
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  Speaker 2: like this. That's not to say that I'm not one
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  Speaker 2: of these people saying it's out of hand or any
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  Speaker 2: of that kind of stuff. It's just that I never
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  Speaker 2: really saw what I would describe to be a fair
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  Speaker 2: to Midland situation. Cincinnati quarterback commanding $ 5 million. But, but,
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  Speaker 2: but part of that too, is that that position in
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  Speaker 2: the sport is just always understaffed. Like we, how many
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  Speaker 2: bad deal, dude, I'm a Falcons fan. How many bad
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  Speaker 2: deals have I seen thrown at a quarterback? Like that
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  Speaker 2: happens everywhere. I mean, maybe in 20 years we're going
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  Speaker 2: to be doing this for 13-year-olds in Texas high school.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know. But that, I guess, I shouldn't be
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  Speaker 2: as surprised by. But I'm also going to tell you this.
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  Speaker 2: You didn't miss anything. This isn't the next great kid.
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  Speaker 2: What I'm scared of doing is making fun of him
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  Speaker 2: too much right now because I sure as hell didn't
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  Speaker 2: think the Cal quarterback was going to win the Heisman
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  Speaker 2: last year and be the number one pick in the
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  Speaker 2: NFL draft.
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  Speaker 1: Well, so I think there are a couple things on
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  Speaker 1: the point with quarterbacks that I find interesting. One, which is, yes,
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  Speaker 1: quarterbacks on the professional level are quite scarce. On the
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  Speaker 1: collegiate level, however, you're finding Trinidad and Tampa at Ferris State,
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  Speaker 1: for example. I am surprised that the market equilibrium would
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: be as high as it is. But again, these people
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: are looking to Cody Campbell, who is the benefactor of
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  Speaker 1: Texas Tech football.
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  Speaker 2: He's an oil billionaire. He's on the board. I think
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  Speaker 2: he's under 40. He's a fairly young guy. I think
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  Speaker 2: he might be early 40s because I'm trying to place him.
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  Speaker 2: He was an O-lineman at Tech under Leach. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So and Leach didn't take that job until 1999.
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  Speaker 2: So. So, yeah. So, OK, 44. He's my age.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: OK.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So he's 44. OK. Yeah. He's funding two things. Making
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  Speaker 2: America great again. Sure. And Texas Tech football. Oh, come on.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: He's also protecting women's sports. Haven't you seen the commercial?
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  Speaker 2: I did not know he was one of those. That's him. Oh, oh,
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  Speaker 2: I'm not even talking about trans rights. I'm talking about. Well, look,
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  Speaker 2: I'm sure he's I'm sure he's on that platform without looking.
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  Speaker 2: I feel confident saying that all of those commercials that
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  Speaker 2: ran during college football this year.
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  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: That's him. Did not know all they're trying to do.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: is basically get Congress to intercede so they can freeze
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: what's going on to protect schools like Texas Tech from
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: getting lost in a super conference shuffle. This guy is
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: stroking checks. from I want a new running back to
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  Speaker 2: I want to play God in college sports. This guy
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  Speaker 2: is involved. Yeah, he's interesting.
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  Speaker 1: And I also say he made a point on Twitter
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  Speaker 1: a few months ago that was worthwhile with his, when
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  Speaker 1: the Big Ten, I mean, the private equity money is coming,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: but he was the guy that was like, hold on, guys.
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  Speaker 1: How in the world are you getting all this money
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: and yet you still need this money?
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: And it's because.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: the day that is here was always on the way
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: and you acted like it was never going to come, right?
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  Speaker 2: Correct.
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  Speaker 1: Now all of a sudden it's time to pay and
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: you guys have no idea what you're doing. And that
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: gets me to the next observation that I have about this,
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  Speaker 1: which is, and you just kind of touched on what
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: he's talking about.
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  Speaker 2: We're trying to get Congress to be involved.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Rather than fireproofing the house, the strategy for saving the
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: house is to let it catch on fire because I'm
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: sure the fire department knows what to do. And in
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: this case, the fire department knows do you read the news?
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Like the people that think that this Congress is going
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: to be the one to come up with something that
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: makes sense is insane.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: It's an inertia as a long-term strategy. I've never seen
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: anything like it in all the years of work I've
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: done in media or business. I've never seen inertia as
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: the governing factor of a strategy. And what I mean
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: by that is that you joked about it, but we
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: saw this day coming. Look, when I got into this
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: as a student reporter all the way up to a
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: national reporter starting around 2010, we all knew what the
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: culture was. And it was written off for a while, oh, hey,
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: it's just happening in the South, or maybe it's just
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: happening in Texas, or maybe it's just happening in Ohio State. No,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: it happened everywhere. We knew this. We've known this since
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: the 20s, okay? Yeah. I can get on a soapbox,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: but I won't. This idea of relegating the player compensation epidemic,
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: it was called at one point, to certain parts of
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: the country is a fallacy. This has been going on
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: since college sports were deemed to be amateur endeavors, and
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: then schools started profiting off of it. But the sea
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: change was around that 2010-2012 mark. where you essentially couldn't
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: argue it anymore, right? The money got too big. The
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: voices got too mainstream. And so the NCAA, to go
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: back to this inertia concept, look, Can you recall a
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: 9-0 unanimous decision in the Supreme Court other than Alston? Right.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: This Supreme Court can't agree on anything. Hell, its conservative
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: side can't agree on anything. And to a man and woman,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: they said 9-0. I have never seen, and I'm not
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: a constitutional scholar, but I've never seen a more emphatic
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Supreme Court decision in my lifetime. That's the NCAA strategy.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: And hey, let me be clear. They knew. I've talked
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: to former enforcement officers. I've talked to former people on
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: the legal team. They knew going in they were doomed,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: but they decided we are going to stand here, die
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: on the sword because we cannot unravel the NCAA apparatus
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: to then include player compensation in any way, shape or form.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: So what you're seeing now with the unchecked market, what
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: you're seeing with the casual complaints of all these kids
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: are changing schools every year and none of this is binding.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: All of this could have been addressed six, seven years ago,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: all right? It was about seven years ago when the
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: NCAA had a working group and said, hey, the end
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: is coming, right? Can we adapt to the future? And
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: they said no. So every complaint that the casual conservative
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: college football fan has, and there are hundreds of millions
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: of those, could have been addressed by the apparatus in
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: place seven years ago.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: And it's wild because you've mentioned the money and where
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: the money has gotten and how quickly it has gotten.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: The scandals of the past seem so quaint at this point. Like,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Reggie Bush's parents getting a place to live and somebody
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: getting Reggie a 96 SS. Which, by the way, if
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: you are going to cheat, getting a 96 SS is.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: A great way to go about doing it.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: The $ 200, 000 for Cam Newton, which we already knew was
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: the best $ 200, 000 allegedly anybody had ever spent, right?
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: All those numbers.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: The SMU numbers, when you go back and look at
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: the money that those guys were getting paid, it was
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: like $ 1, 000 a month in those cases.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: It really wasn't that much money. It was about, if
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: you took the more 2000-era scandals and the money we heard,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: so like Reggie, you mentioned Cam. Obviously, there were a
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: lot of minor ones that happened along the way. Tennessee,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Ole Miss, of course. Albert Means. Yeah, yeah. I would
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: say any of the rank and file SEC country, they're
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: somewhere at about one one hundredth or one tenth, depending
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: on the positional value of what we're paying now. So
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: the market with the black market was great. If you
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: were the one in charge of luring the player. This
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: is why I get I've kind of had my limit.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: I've written, I think, four columns already for The Washington
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Post about this. This idea of having Nick Saban installed
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: on that game day seat as the sort of the
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: wise sage of college football. I can't swallow it. I
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: can't do it. Because that man built a dynasty that
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: can't be replicated. It doesn't have a damn thing to
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: do with coaching prowess. It has nothing to do with
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: schematic genius. It has everything to do with a personnel
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: market that was aggressively restrained on the player side. The
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: moment he realized he would have to renegotiate and re-recruit
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: his entire roster on an annual basis... But he stepped quick.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: He was out. That was it. They all did.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: In basketball is where you really saw it. Roy Williams,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Jay Wright, Mike Krzyzewski.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Tom Izzo's the only one still hanging around. And I
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: don't fucking know why. I'd have beat the street. It
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: is chaos.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: I don't blame these guys for being like, hey, that
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: ain't the job that I was doing.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: And the thing that bothers me about Saban is he
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: still sort of applies his standard in a very, very
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: public way. you know, and he was trying to kind
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: of manipulate the Kiffin search for LSU. None of, I
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: try and encourage people to understand this. None of what
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: he did would work now. The totalitarian state and the
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: statue building mentality, like all of that is gone. It
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: cannot come back now. Okay. Because the courts finally caught
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: up and the lawyers finally caught up. So this idea
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: that you can do this, like, you know, we can
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: talk about Alabama if you want. I feel for Kayla DeBoer, man.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Because I don't know if there's a number he could
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: ever reach for wins there that would make that fan
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: base calm down.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Hey, man, you got two kinds of coaches at Alabama.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Actual factual legends and dudes that get run out of town.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: There has been no in-between in the last.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: 65 years of what it is to be at Alabama.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: It's those two. I made a bet against several of
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: my colleagues and co-hosts after that retirement. And most of
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: them were under the age of like 32. That's the key.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: That's the key. And they don't know. They don't know. Dude,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: nothing crazier, nothing you think that's happened that's crazy in
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: college football hasn't already happened to a coach or his
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: wife or some people or some kids or something in Tuscaloosa.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: They don't know about Mike DuBose, right? They don't know
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: about Mike Shula. Bill Curry. Bill Curry. Joe Kine's interim
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: head coach situation on TV. Like, they have no idea.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: The Dodge Charger economy got decimated when we started paying
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: kids because you go through Tuscaloosa. I mean, God, that's the,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: it was the comedian Shane Gillis that dogged Saban on
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: air last year. I was shocked because it was like putting,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: it was the first time I saw the thing spoken
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: to on like the big corporate media stage of, Yeah, man,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: you can't just have the local guy in the dealership
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: give them a new car and then you MF them
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: for four years on their way to the NFL. That's done.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: It's never coming back.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the funny things also about looking back
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: on the good old days, which were the more charming
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: old days.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: I think that we would agree.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I think that dudes dropping the money off in a
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: bag has proven to be much more charming than these
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: ridiculous contracts often filled with landmines and loopholes all the
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: way through as it was before. But it is so
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: crazy to think that Jim Trestle, who, by the way,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: for those of you who don't know what Jim Trestle
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: is up to these days, Jim Trestle went from being
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: the president at Youngstown State, where he used to be
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: the football coach. He is now the lieutenant governor of
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: the state of Ohio. And they ran him off the
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: job at Ohio State, in large part, over some tattoos.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Over tattoos. Not knowing. Not knowing. This wasn't even a
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: coach who was orchestrating illicit benefits. They exhausted two years
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: of an NCAA investigation to find out only that he
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: had no hand in the actual matter. By the way,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: I guess we should say what we're talking about. Some
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: kids got some free tattoos. And by the way, as
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: someone who lived the life of ill repute in his 20s,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: don't get a tattoo in a college town. Even if
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: it's Columbus, y'all, don't get a tattoo in a college town, okay?
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: You are 110% guaranteed to regret that shit 20 years later.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: He didn't even know. And they busted his ass just
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: for being in charge of the program when free tattoos
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: were handed out. Yes. But you can't explain, Bo, to
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: somebody young how much coverage the media gave to Tattoo Game.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: It was huge.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: I even myself gave a little more than I should have.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: And where I got it wrong was I just looked
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: at how Trestle.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Handled it and was just like, oh, no. you've blown this.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: And they kind of sold the kids out a little bit.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: There's a whole element of that that went down. He
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: also got in, well, he didn't get in trouble. Troy
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Smith got in trouble because he told Trestle he needed
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: some money and Trestle sent him to Farmore, man. If
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: you remember, there used to be a chain of drugstores
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: called Farmore and they got shut down over some measure
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: of fraud. And the guy that was in charge, he
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: wound up doing some time, but he used to be
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: the money behind Youngstown State football. And so Trestle, because Trestle,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Trestle is amazing. I'd watch a Jim Trestle documentary immediately
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: because it's just hard to believe he is an archetype
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: that has gone away completely. But Troy Smith almost had
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: his whole college thing messed up over like a couple
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: But Trestle survived when Maurice.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Corrette one day got up and was like, hey, I'm
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: going to call Gene Wojciechowski and tell him exactly how
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: the money works at Ohio State and laid it all.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Out in ESPN, the magazine. And we all just said, whatever.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: But now you look back at it and it's quaint.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: There's it's weird to to think of that time where
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: the amount of water the media carried for the NCAA.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: and there's still some of those guys hanging on i
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: think they're pretty pissed off about the current state of
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: things but yeah like that was the fast track of
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: the media to being better sourced more respected was to
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: tow that moral line for the ncaa that's the thing
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: that jumps out at me because i took so much
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: hell in 2014 you know when spencer and everybody that
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: worked on that story with me we did the bag
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: man story in 2014 man i was a pariah in
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: in the media there's a lot of people would that's
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: it that's it we're never credentialing him again and it's
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: because i gave i mean i just gave away the
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: secret that was in front of everybody's face and even
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: as far as we've come as a sport there's still
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: a mentality and we can all kind of figure out
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: why that is amongst the consumer but that all of
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: a sudden compensating players is where college football has gone
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: off the rails. Now, academics have said it for years
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: and decades. I got like 10 books behind me written
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: by academics on why college sports is a pox upon
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: higher education, all that kind of stuff, right? But all
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, now things are out of hand. You
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: see a lot of that. Things have gone too crazy.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: And it's just the one thing that's changed. It wasn't
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: a billion dollar TV deals. I know that. Nobody seemed
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: to clutch their pearls about that. By the way, but
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: we're over a billion in dead money. awarded to coaches.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: That ain't it. Nobody's bothered by that. So what changed?
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Like my thing always is I'm good with the money.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I think you talked about this earlier. The money got
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: to be so big that certain things became morally unenforceable
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: or impossible to.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Sell, but it shouldn't be this easy to leave. Right?
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Like it's one thing to have free agency. It's another
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: thing where everybody can become a free agent and at
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: any point, but also we're finding out that that is
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: weird because something you and I were talking about a
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: little bit before the show, and I've been waiting for
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: you to come in to talk about this part.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: There's a whole new economy that is brewing up now, right?
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: Because you have all these players who need representation.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: And by the way, you have all these schools that
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: need people who understand the rules and understand the laws.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: And the economy around this new world order has not
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: been built up yet. And what that means is it's
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: a lot of people out here getting some horrific advice
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: because there are not enough qualified advisors to satisfy the
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: demand of all these players who now need a qualified advisor.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: So what did I say earlier that when we legitimized everything,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: the Dodge Charger economy took a hit? Let me tell
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: you what didn't. Let me tell you what you should
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: have invested in. It's the cousin and uncle economy.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: My buddy in them economy.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: All right?
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Because that is insane right now. Look, if you don't
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: know anything about the representation side of entertainment and sports,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: so I use an agent if I have TV deals.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: So when I got this Yahoo gig, I got an
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: agent specifically to handle that. And it's really one, and
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: you know this, you've been through this a thousand times, Bo.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: You want to have somebody else saying yes and no
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: and arguing about money. You don't ever want to be
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: the person who does that. But you also want someone
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: who's been to law school. It's really about that simple
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: to look at a contract. The show I'm doing now,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: Phantom Island, Ryan Nanny from SB Nation, he and I
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: founded this company. And the best thing about working with
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Ryan in a two-man show is he went to law school.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: He was a lawyer for the city of New York.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: So I just say, hey, look at this, right? And
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: the reason I say all this is that you got
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: kids who are making good money, legitimate money, and being
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: offered legitimate money and not having a single professional in
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: their life to vet that. Now, I want to be clear.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: There was a lot of scaremongering early on. Do we
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: want to have an 18-year-old defensive back having to pay taxes?
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: I'm not worried about that part. I'm not worried about
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: that part. What scares me right now, so there are
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: a couple three-letter acronyms that you pretty much know in
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: sports entertainment. CAA, WME, UTA, right? And then in college sports,
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: there's a couple of brands that are a little bit
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: like Athletes First. They do NFL in college and XL
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: and a couple of the, okay. That's like, I can
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: name about on one hand. The problem is, and you
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: could ask those guys off the record. They won't tell
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: you on the record. They don't want to get involved
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: in this right now. Right? So the guys who are
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: repping Kalen DeBoer or Dan Lanning or Steve Sarkeesian, they
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: aren't touching the kid who's trying to make maybe like a,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: like barely six figures as a DB. And he's bouncing
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: around from conference USA to the big 12. So who
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: is repping them? The problem right now is it's just
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: kind of any and everybody. And it becomes like a
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: not so funny episode of honorage where you're like, you
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: got your old buddy from the bar and where you
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: got your, you do it. You literally have a family
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: member who's out there negotiating who, by the way, I've
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: heard some eye raising stories from sitting head coaches saying
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: that I've got a kid. He's a feature back. He's quarterback,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: like a skilled position talent. We are relying upon him.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: I've got him on NIL. We have signed and agreed
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: to something in August, right? Locked him in halfway through
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: the season. His cousin's on the phone saying, hey, LSU
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: just called us or hey, Nebraska just called us. What
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: are you going to do about it? And by the way,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: what are you going to do about it now? Let's
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: tear up that deal right now. We want 50,000 more
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: per game or we want whatever it is. So, Not shockingly,
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: because we have no central governance and we have no
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: regulation whatsoever, because the people in charge said, burn it down.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: We're done. Burn it down. We don't care. And that's
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: why inertia was the strategy, Bo, was that they wanted
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: to make this. They knew they were going to lose.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: But they also thought, well, you know, when our system
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: of governance falls, we can make it look so chaotic
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: that people will want us back. That was a long
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: term strategy by a lot of people in the NCAA.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: So is it chaotic right now? Yes, it is badly so. Now,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: you spoke to the idea of kids being able to
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: leave so effortlessly. The problem, and I'm kind of speaking
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: in broad strokes here after talking to a lot of
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: legal experts, is that the moment you put guardrails around that,
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: you have now officially done away with any concept of
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: these kids not being labor. And that's when you get
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: into a whole other world that so far they've skirted, right?
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: This is why they're begging the U.S. government. to give
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: them antitrust exemptions, and to get them out of any
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: kind of labor regulation. Because the moment, look, I agree.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: I think any fan of a team right now doesn't
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: want to go through this crap where, you know, we're
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: losing 60 to 70 players a year. We thought we
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: had this guy for at least two years, and now
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: he's jumping because he's getting a little bit more money.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know who's on the team anymore, right? Like,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: it has truly reduced it to the idea that this
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: is laundry. And that's not actually the way that people
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: engage with this sport, right?
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: No, granted.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: The way I always said it, the kids deserve what
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: they're getting.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: This just isn't as much fun to watch. Correct. And
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: we're also sussing out to go back to the endorsement fallacy.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: So far, and we don't have a lot of data
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: on this. We only have about four years. So far,
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: the name on the front of the jersey is still
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: more marketable, meaning that we're not in an NBA or
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: NFL culture where kids are following players.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: And I say kids, I mean fans. I mean like
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: a 12-year-old is not necessarily going to follow– a defensive
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: end from one sec school to another right or running
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: back or a quarterback for that matter and so that
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: bears out that's important to know because in you know
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: as a sports agent you're building a brand around an
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: individual and what we've learned so far is you can't
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: really build a brand around an individual yet in other
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: words if like whatever you invest in this kid who's
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: 18 and he goes to a big 12 school it's
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: kind of really relying on that big 12 schools culture
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: and their marketing because that's not really going to carry
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: over if you then transfer to another school So financially,
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: it's impactful. And I think what, look, what we're seeing
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: in the margins is that everybody knows we got to
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: put up some type of rule set on, let's just
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: call it a commitment, right? Which is probably too generic
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: of a term. If you're going to transfer, you can
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: have maybe X transfers. And then I think you're allotted.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: I really like the concept of opening transfer without penalty
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: if the coach is fired or leaves. I think that
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: has to be the bedrock. Okay, so I'll give you
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: a great example. You can look at the trajectory of
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Cam Ward, who, by the way, I used him as
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: an example in the beginning. The only reason he was
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: unrecruited was that poor guy lived in the one county
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: in Texas that runs a triple option. That's it. I'm serious.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: That's the only reason why he didn't get a look,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: because there's just no way with his skill set in
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: the state of Texas that he should have gone completely unrecruited.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: But it's somewhere southeast of Houston.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Brazoria County is where he's from.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: So they are famous for running... Basically, you might be
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: able to call it gun option, but it may not
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: be like army under center, but it's pretty close. So he,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: of course, washed out when it came to all those
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: quarterback evaluations in camps. So his ability to go from
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: incarnate word, where they're running a high stat offense, they
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: were scoring in like 90 points a game, to then
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: go to Washington State and then finally get that transfer
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: offer to basically go into a professional system at Miami. Well,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: that's the reason why he's a millionaire now living here
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: in Nashville. So that's great. But I think often about like,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: why not? So let's look at the trajectory of a
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: guy named Charles Huff. Charles Huff was an assistant under
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: Nick Saban. He was an assistant under James Franklin. He
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: had his bona fides. He kind of got stuck, and
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: I'll speed this up, in a weird situation at Marshall.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: And we could probably talk about Marshall as a culture later.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: But he wins the Sun Belt when he really wasn't
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: supposed to. He goes to Southern Miss, turns that program around,
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: and now he's the head coach at Memphis. If you
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: know anything about college football... Memphis is a trajectory job.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: It is a vault job. So I would say within
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: two years, Charles Huff, who's from the DMV, is probably
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: going to be somewhere like Maryland or UVA or something
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: like that, or maybe even an NC State. Those players
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: have gone with him, and I really don't have a
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: problem with that.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Because if you're telling a kid is from the dc
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: area he commits to marshall your coach leaves you're stuck
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: in west virginia right no you should be able to
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: go with that coach to hattiesburg mississippi and then as
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: someone who's lived in hattiesburg mississippi you get the hell
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: out of there as fast as you can and if
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: you can if you can and you're you are of
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: that caliber or Bo, if you've developed, you should be
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: able to go with him to Memphis. And the reason why... So, like,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: the most casual-ass radio question I'm getting right now is,
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: how is Cignetti doing it?
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: A lot of those standout pieces on what is probably
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: the next national champion... Like, if I had to pick
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: one right now, I think I might pick Indiana. A
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: lot of those standout pieces were recruited to James Madison. Like,
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: he's a really good talent evaluator. But those kids who...
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: It was like, we've heard this before. You can coach
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: a two-star to be a three-star. What we've never really
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: seen is that, all right, you're at a three-star program.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: JMU's got real money for where they are at in
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: the pecking order. They spend very well. All right, if
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: that kid's a three-star at JMU and they go 12-1
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: and he gets a job in the Big Ten, and
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: you are the caliber of defensive back that can play
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: in the Big Ten, you should be able to go
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: with him, right? That's what I would like to protect
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: moving forward. Now- The TJ Finley's of the world. The
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Jeff Sims of the world. I'm talking about quarterbacks. If
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: you don't know who are just one year, they're everywhere.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Like TJ Finley. Forever. By the way, TJ Finley is
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: year seven. Yeah. Texas state, Georgia state, Auburn, NC state.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Maybe like, I mean, I'm leaving guy, Jeff Sims, Georgia tech,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Arizona state. I'm leaving a school out there like that.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: We should probably figure out a way to stop that.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: We should probably. But the other thing, to go back
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: to Chambliss for a second, or Diego Pavia. I met
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Diego Pavia at camp because I live near Vanderbilt. And
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: they were like, you got to see this kid from
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: New Mexico State. And then I spent the first, the
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: two hours after they beat Alabama, I did like a
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: really fast sort of in bed with him inside the
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: building that night. He's awesome. He's great. He's amazing. I
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: think he's a great character for college football history. I
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: really don't care what he said at the Heisman. Diego's
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: never going to play in the NFL, though. Never. I
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: know Doug Flutie exists. Unfortunately, Drew Brees exists. I'm telling
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: you right now, that dude is not going to play
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: in the NFL. Not unless he has a couple backup spleens.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Him getting that extra year of eligibility, I had no
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: problem with that either. Now, I know this is such
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: a dumb, bad-faith, slippery slope, and somebody's going to say, well,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: you want to have a 32-year-old playing? No, I don't.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: But I am saying, like, if it's a six-year window
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: that you can exhaust, because look, man, Diego Pavia is
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: never going to make money again playing football. Right. So
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I'm fine with that. Trinidad Chambliss, that's it, man. He
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: might have a shot at the pros, but again, from
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: a physical standpoint... From a physical standpoint, he's probably not
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: going to have a pro career. So, dude, if he
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: can make $ 4 million next year, I'm not going to
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: take that away from him. Right. That's it. All right.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: We're going to come back with more from Stephen Godfrey.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: I got one question for him that I didn't get
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: to on that topic, and then he's an Ole Miss grad.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: I'm sure he has things to say about the SEC.
• 33:04
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  Speaker 1: slash Bomani. All right, we are back with Stephen Godfrey
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: from Split Zone Duo, Yahoo Sports, a whole lot of people.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: One question I want to ask you, and for people,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: we alluded to it a little bit earlier but didn't
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: talk about it thoroughly. You wrote a story that made
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: big news about 10, 11 years ago where you sat
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: down with a bag man, the man who drops the
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: money off to players in the course of recruiting. What
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: happens to those people now?
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: A lot of them. So that story was– the only
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: thing I regret about that story was we had to
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: create a composite from three different sources and I didn't
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: really emphasize that enough. So it was three different guys
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: I spoke to at three different sec schools. It's been
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: however many years, I think you can figure out which
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: one of what one of those schools was. All right.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: To be able to earn their trust. All right. And
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: then I might live in the state of another one,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: maybe potentially. Um, it didn't really matter anymore. I don't
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: really have to like hide that shit, but, um, Those guys, well,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: three of them specifically, one kind of fell off the
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: map because he got terrified as I was putting the
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: story together and kind of ghosted me. And then the
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: other two guys are involved in the current NIL. So
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: the short answer is you're in the NIL system. Now,
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: if you were a true blue bag man, you have
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: probably a different function in college sports now. So here's
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: the difference. You got your check writers. You got the
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: people who are spending the money. And then oftentimes they
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: are interacting, like you and I are creating a transaction
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: for play, but a bag man traditionally was actually the go-between.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: So it was not his $ 50, 000 to get the kid
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: to sign, right? He was the conduit. So those guys
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: still exist in a lot of capacities because there are
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: still a lot of problems to fix in college towns,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: if you get what I'm saying, right? Like there's still
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: a lot of issues where something's going on. And by
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: the way, We're getting into this rev share era. Slush
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: fund payments are still happening. I want to be clear
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: about that. It's just to a much smaller degree. When
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: you have this amazing life-changing lump sum, if you're kicking
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: a kid $ 500, 000 now, the magnitude of it, it's so different.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Most of those guys integrated into the NIL system if
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: they have real money. a lot of those guys turned
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: around and started complaining about paying players because they didn't
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: have real money, Bo. They had fake-ass money. And here's
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: what I mean by fake-ass money. If you have a
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: semi-successful whatever dealership in the middle of nowhere the south
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: all right you got a little bit of money you
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: got destined money all right you don't even have 30a
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: money right all right and you don't have real ass
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: hamptons miami south beach money and you never did and
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: you never were now these kids are getting five million
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: dollars your ability to say you know what i'm gonna
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: do for you alma mater i got 50 000 in
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: cash off the books of my business We can get
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: a whole defense for that, right? That was the mindset
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: in 1999. That guy is far less important in the machine.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: What's amazing now is that you got the dude from
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Oracle buying his girlfriend a quarterback for $ 10 million. So
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: it became a richer man's game is the short answer.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: So a lot of these wannabe tycoons got busted out.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so on some levels, some of these guys are
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: like the mobsters who now work at the casinos. And
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: the rest of these guys don't have enough money. Like you,
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: you can't run a game anymore.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: What if I am a, if I am an, it
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: doesn't even matter what position it is. If I'm worth
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: my salt and I'm a three or four star kid
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: and I'm in the deep South and you're trying to
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: come up on the side and offer me some like
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: what scratched up lease that you're going to put in
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: my aunt's name for a car. That day's over. Right.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: So yeah, those guys, some of them are pretty bitter
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: about it, but you know, Oh, well.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Now, mention that you were an Ole Miss grad. This
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: has been a wild month and change, right, for Ole
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Miss football. Number one, we are currently in the midst
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: of something. Now, granted, my prediction that Ole Miss will
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: never win the SEC in my life, that one still
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: got a chance.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: You got it. You nailed it. It's still there.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: But them being one of the last four teams, Did
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: not see that coming. That is a product of a
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: number of factors that allow this to happen. But now
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: we're in the madness of Lane has gone to LSU.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Lane wants to still be a good guy somehow and
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: look like he's the benevolent benefactor.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: And he's letting some of his coaches go back and coach.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: At Ole Miss it's only a couple of them it
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: is clear that Pete Golding hates laying Kiffin's guts and
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: has been dogging him to anybody who would listen for
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: the last month parlayed that into a job that he
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: would never otherwise get because Ole Miss needed to hold
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: this season together so tightly but now it's here they
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: have a legitimate chance at winning a national championship but
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: it all feels crazy am I wrong.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: No you're that's an accurate assessment um Let's be honest.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: How do I piss my alma mater off the fastest here?
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Let's be honest. There's some terrible offensive decision-making on Georgia's
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: part in that game that led us to this point.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: I want to start there. Gunnar Stockton runs one more keeper.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: They kick a field goal rather than throw in an incompletion.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Ole Miss can't drive the field in that game, and
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: that's what should have happened because Georgia, I really think,
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: owned the line of scrimmage in that game. So we're
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: here because of a kind of a fluky ending. And
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: I think even a lot, I mean, I know a
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: lot of Ole Miss people have reached out and said, wow,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: we really kind of backed into that. Now, I don't
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: want to take anything away from the play of Chambliss.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: He was amazing. It was sort of Manziel-esque what they
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: did moving down the field. Kwon Lacey played, banged up. Like,
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: they are better than I had any idea they would
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: be this season. Because they're a year expired on the expectation.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Because Kiffin had the more NIL-heavy roster last year. You know,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: the front seven, I think four started in the NFL
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: this year. They're all gone, though. So they are good legitimately.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: That is true. Now, you're just going to have to
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: guide me here because I could probably monologue in any
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: direction in terms of Ole Miss as an identity or
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: what this Kiffin thing is. I think what I can't
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: say enough is that this Lane Kiffin image rehab thing
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: was never real.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Ever.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: I'm amazed that anybody fell for it. He looked like
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Lane Kiffin at every turn. Everybody fell for it. And
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: it was a really beautiful piece of PR craftsmanship. And
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: here's what I mean by that. SEC Network runs this
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: bespoke documentary about Lane Kiffin. And oh, he's such a card.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: He's such a goofball on Twitter. And look how different
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: he is with his hot yoga. And he's always making
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Instagrams with his daughters and all this kind of stuff.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: What they were doing at CAA... was that after last season,
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Lane knew he could push through and maybe get eight
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: or nine more wins at Ole Miss, and enough time
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: had expired from his chicanery, stuff that happened off the
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: field at various stages in his career, to be legitimately
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: considered by an actual SEC power. That's what he wanted,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: all right? He knew Florida was going to open. He
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: did not know LSU was going to open, all right?
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: The first time I got a phone call about LSU
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: was early October and there was still a lot of
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: disbelief there because of the way that Kelly contract was structured. Honestly,
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: they needed the governor to kind of lose his mind
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: to make that happen. But Lane knew he could get
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: in on the biggest type of job. So this PR
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: effort that you saw, it worked beautifully because it worked
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: both ways the entire time. And here's what I mean
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: by that. He is dog whistling and signaling off to
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: the Floridas of the world. Look how different I am.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Look how I've changed. And I keep saying Florida, Bo,
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: because when Florida hired Billy Napier in 22. There was
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: a kind of like an internal mandate amongst every booster
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: and every leader at Florida. We're not evaluating Lane Kiffin.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: We do not want that headache. That was the PR
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: rep of Lane Kiffin just a couple years ago. Pick
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: a rumor that you know about from a message board.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you as a college football reporter,
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: it's probably true about Kiffin, right? A lot of baggage,
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: and I'm kind of speeding this up so we don't
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: get bogged down. What changed in three years was seasons
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: above expectation at a middle-class sec program and we know
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: how hard it is to do that right so his
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: on-field acumen was starting to improve it was starting to
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: kind of wash off all this other stuff off the
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: field he still has a lot of things going on
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: i'll say but he's able to manufacture this thing and
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: here's the genius the whole time this is happening do
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: you know what everybody in oxford saying we did that
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: old miss did that we're such a great place to
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: live and this is home And this is such a
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: wonderful Oxford, such a great community. We healed Lane Kiffin.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: They bought that so bad. They're still pulling the hook
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: out of their mouth. Okay. Whether they would admit it
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: now or not, they fell for it. Hook line. Okay.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: And you could see him saying it throughout the season.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: I didn't like the size of the crowd today. I
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: don't like, you know, the fans didn't turn up on time,
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: except all this little ticky tack stuff. You knew he
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: was headed out the door, but what he didn't know
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: was that LSU was going to open. And he also
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: probably didn't know that Nick Saban was going to step
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: in via Jimmy Sexton in the process and say, hey,
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: I know you think Florida is the ultimate destination here.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: You need to go to LSU. That's a better job.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: So that's the fast way of how we got here
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: was it was an excellent amount of public relations finesse. Now,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: in the last two weeks, we've seen a really interesting development,
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: which is something that if you cover the sport, you know,
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: Lane is not a grinder. Lane is not Nick Saban.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Lane is not the offensive Nick Saban. And that's what
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: he's tried to do. Do you know how many times
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: he's put his name next to Nick's the last three
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: years on TV? He wants people to think that he
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: is some amazing combination of Pete Carroll and Nick Saban.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: And he's not really either. Because both of those guys,
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: for all their faults, buddy, they work their asses off, right? Dude,
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: they're 25-hour days. And that ain't Lane. So what you've
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: seen early on in the portal returns at LSU and
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: in the recruiting process is that Lane doesn't have his guys.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: You know, this goes back to the assistant coach crisis.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: You know, when he got to Ole Miss, he was
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: a little slow in recruiting and portal and all that.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: And then he got Jeff Lebby to sort of be
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: that guy. And then Jeff Lebby eventually turned that into
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: a head coaching job at Mississippi State. Pete Golding, who
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: is much more familiar with Mississippi, played at Delta State.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: He's from Hayman, Louisiana. His wife went to Ole Miss.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: That was his guy. That was like his worker bee.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: He always had a staff underneath him that was kind
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: of doing all this stuff, so he could literally show
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: up on game day and do the sort of flippant,
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: the kind of ingenue BS as an offensive play caller. Now,
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: if it sounds like I'm disparaging him as a coach,
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: I think LSU is going to be successful, but I
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: want to be really clear about this. LSU is going
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: to have much more of an Ed Orgeron experience than
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: the Nick Saban thing they think they're getting again, okay?
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: There's going to be one inexplicable 11 or 12 win
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: season for LSU, and they're going to go deep in
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: the playoff, and they're going to be magic on offense.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: There's also going to be two or three years, depending
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: on how long this lasts, Bomani, where there is a
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: ridiculous amount of palace intrigue, there is some nasty off-field rumor,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: and the combination is going to break them in a
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: couple weird games every year. Because Lane Kiffin is good
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: for an absolute, let's call it brain fart, of a
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: coaching effort one time in the 12 games you get
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: a season one of those lane kiffin is going to
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: make it inexplicably confounding.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah so a couple things about him in this job
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: as it relates to the previous guys on the job
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: that i think are lost have been lost number one
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: it did not go well for brian kelly it is
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: not because that man cannot coach Yes.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: This is this is a job where Les Miles and
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: Ed Ogeron can win national championships, but also a job
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: where Brian Kelly can get shit can.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: This is not your mileage may vary on what this
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: job is. I think there's something to be said about
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Les and Ed and their understanding of if.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: We get really big guys, I think we'll be OK. Right.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: Like this is a circumstance.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: Humility to the understanding of this is a Jimmy's and
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: Joe's situation.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: This is what we're going to do.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: The thing about Les and Ed that I think was
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: very important and that Brian Kelly was not and what
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: got him in trouble is, and also Nick Saban. Those
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: guys are nothing in the positive on this one. Saban, Miles, Ogeron,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: they are not insincere. That is a place that I
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: think values a certain level of sincerity. Lane Kiffin drips
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: with insincerity at every turn. Yes. He better win and
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: he better win fast because they will get sour on
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: him quickly.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: The amount of emotional distance I think he has to
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: create for his own sanity is going to kill him
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: at any major job. Ole Miss, because of their station
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: in the world, because of where they fell in the
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: pecking order, largely self-inflicted, by the way, We could probably
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: do a whole other hour on why Ole Miss is
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: where it is, but you got to account for about
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: 100 years of history. Ole Miss was willing to put
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: up with that. Ole Miss was willing to deal with
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: the grumpiness. Ole Miss was willing to deal with the
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: guy who blew off the charity golf tournament, who blew
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: off the request to do such and such for the
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: sick kid in the hospital, who wasn't around in April,
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: who wasn't around in March, who wasn't around in August
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: until practice started. They were going to put up with
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: all that. this plays to your point. The thing that
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: they just extended was all of that I just described
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: kind of applied to Brian Kelly too.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: Brian Kelly gave off this unspoken sort of exclamation that
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: he did not really want to be in Louisiana. He
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: was here as a coaching experiment because he believed Notre
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: Dame was holding him back. Right. And we found out
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: he was completely wrong. Right. That he was actually holding
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Notre Dame back in a lot of ways. What you're
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: getting with Lane now is, is, I'm going to be
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: really honest, everything I know about Louisiana, married into a
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: Louisiana family, I know a ton of LSU people, they
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: have everything in the blueprint to be Alabama or Texas
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: or insert magical school here. But there's something terminally fraught
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: about that culture. I was about to say, it's all
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: those people from Louisiana, are you issue? It's that combined
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: with the accidental success of Nick Saban at LSU. Meaning...
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: He came in and he was able to power wash
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: about four decades of corruption off of Baton Rouge. And
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: I really like I need to emphasize this. So like
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: one of my favorite NFL players is work done. Work done.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: Grew up in Baton Rouge. Work done. He got the
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: hell out of Baton Rouge. He never considered LSU before
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: he went to Florida State. That was never. I asked
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: him about it in person one time at Falcons game.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: Hey, man.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: No, no chance whatsoever. LSU had. major race relation issues.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: It had major economic issues. It had terrible fundraising. The
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: facilities looked like the rest of Louisiana, which is that
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: you stood around and said, where the hell is all
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: the money going?
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, we wanted to keep the illegal drink
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: at age 18.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: You see where the priorities are if you go to
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: LSU in like 1997. So Saban gets there and by
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: sheer force of will and all that curmudgeonly spirit, he's
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: able to browbeat a lot of that corruption back and
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: create a synthesis of all the talents here, y'all, is leaving.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: You have more talent on these six exits of I-10
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: and I-12. I don't know if I-12 existed then. And
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: they're all leaving. They're going to the Florida schools. They're
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: going out. They're going to Texas. All he did was
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: create the ruthless blueprint that changed college football for 30 years.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: The problem was he applied that blueprint when he came
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: back to their now archrival Alabama, right? So the problem
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: is they've been chasing– a statue, not a championship bow
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: because we, Hey, Les Miles championship, Ed Orgeron championship, right?
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: They have the rings. They've been chasing a statue. And
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: what mystifies me is that since the Ed Orgeron debacle
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: with the athletic director and them not wanting the, you know,
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: Ed was a little too rough around the edges and
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: all this shit. And they're like making him hire a
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: defense coordinator. He doesn't want to like, they kind of
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: broke up what could have been a decent little dynasty.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: Like even after Burrow left, there was enough talent on
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: that roster for them to be competitive. Then they hire
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: Brian Kelly, who we've established is not a fit in
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: any way, shape or form. And now they're chasing the
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: hot hand and inviting more controversy into a place that
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: breeds its own controversy. Like in college football terms, going
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: from Oxford to Baton Rouge in a media sense is like,
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: if you're in the NFL, this is what always worries
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: me about Dak Prescott. Like Dak needed to be in like,
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: He didn't need to be in Dallas, right? Because of
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: the scrutiny. You have gone from like the Tennessee Titans
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: media beat to the Philadelphia Eagles. He is, Bo, he's
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: going to lose. He's going to lose an inexplicable game.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: All right? And they're going to eat his ass alive.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: They're going to scour his Instagram. They're going to find
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: out if there's any funny business on the side, up, down, left, right.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: They're going to know his status with his ex-wife. I
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: don't think he's prepared for this yet. He has a.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: He is at Ole Miss, and I don't know if
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: this is exactly him. Some other guys may be in
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: this place, but this is, to me, it feels like
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: the first generation that doesn't think of Ole Miss the
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: way that I think of Ole Miss, right? That does
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: not associate Ole Miss with the flags. That does not
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: associate it with overwhelming Confederate imagery.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about this for a second, because
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: so I got invited back to the journalism department this year.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: And I made the documentary called Foul Play a couple
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: years ago that centered around the NCAA investigation of the
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: two Mississippi schools. I hadn't been back since. So I'm
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: an alumnus because I got a free education there. I'm
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: not from Mississippi. I kind of have to state this
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: up front, I feel like. I got the degree there.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: It was cheap. I'm not from Mississippi. I don't cheer
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: for Ole Miss. If they changed all that shit tomorrow,
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: I would say it's 50 years overdue. Let's go. That's great. Right.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: By the way, they used to be called the Mississippi flood,
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: which is kind of a bad-ass. Like if they went
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: to that, that'd be kind of bad-ass. I did not
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: know that. Guess what? And it never going to happen.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: So I went back this year and dude, I am
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: shocked as, as a dissident inside of that culture and
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: someone who's taken a fair amount of shit from his
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: own alumnus. It's not gone. I'm not naive. I have eyes.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: But winning and business and the recruitment culture that's going
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: on in the SEC right now. Do you know how
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: many affluent white kids from Chicago and New Jersey and Massachusetts?
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: Dude, what is that about? By the way, it's a
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: little worrisome because it's happening all over the SEC. Yes.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: Because they want the real thing. They don't want that
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: schism like they got up top.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: They want to go down to the sauce. If you
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: can't get into insert leafy Ivy or junior Ivy in
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: here and you're in Massachusetts, Why are you going to
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: go to some freaking SUNY, right? Or something like that
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: and spend that money when you can go... If your
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: parents got the cash, and it's not cheap, okay? I
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: got an 11-year-old who told me he wants to go
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: to UGA. I looked up out of state. That shit
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: is rough. But if your folks got the money and
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: you go down there, it is a country club to them.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: It's a four-year theme park for alcoholics and future investment bankers. So...
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: It's bizarre. I'm not saying it's gone. And in Ole Miss'
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: case specifically, the hill that I'm going to die on
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: is that there was this period of time where it
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: was such a dog whistle. It was actually the kids
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: from Atlanta and Dallas specifically who kind of came from
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: means but couldn't do shit academically. So they would come
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: to Ole Miss because it was like, oh, I can
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: be my real self there, right? And when there was
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: a flag burning incident or there was some bullshit in
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: the last 10 to 15 years, It was never the
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: kid from Meridian, and it was never the kid from Indianola.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: It was the kid from Highland Park or Roswell, Georgia,
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: and here's why. Again, I want to be really careful
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: about how I'm saying this because I'm somewhat of an
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: expert in this. It's not that those kids from Mississippi
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: didn't have that belief.
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: It's not from– It's that their mom and them knew
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: better because Mississippi is a small place. If you do
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: some dumb shit like that, whether mom and dad agree
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: with it or not, you're going to be in trouble
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: because it's going to get back.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: And they carry a great shame of being basically, it's
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: the same way people from Boston, what they get mad
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: at is you saying they're more racist than everybody else.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: Their response is always, well, what about them and their racism?
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: In Mississippi, Mississippi as a state, Boston as a city,
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: they are the flag bearers for American racism and they're
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: sick of it.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: They don't like that. And even if you're a middle-of-the-road
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: white conservative from some town in Mississippi, because of that,
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: there's an extra sensitivity. So you may hold conservative values
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: and it may not align with someone like myself, but
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: you're going to be extra mindful for your kids better
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: not to be pulling any bullshit, putting a Confederate flag
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: on the back of their Tahoe. Believe it or not,
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: that's not the kids doing it. It's the kids that
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: grow up in this kind of like new neocon culture
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: from these Southern metropolitan areas who academically aren't that strong.
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: And want to go for the more recreational aspects at
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: Ole Miss. And then they get in there and they
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: really start feeling themselves.
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: So that is still there. But what struck me was
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: the size of the place, the amount of out-of-state influence,
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: the lack of deep South accents that I heard. And
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: then also, I'll give them their flowers in one thing.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: They have boosted every form of graduate, undergraduate, doctorate enrollment
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: amongst minorities in a way that it was a 35-year
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: effort to change those numbers. They have done it.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, black enrollment is something like it's over 20 percent.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: The last time I heard the number was like 20 percent. Now, granted,
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: the state is at 35, but still their peers, University
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: of Texas will never have a 20 black population right
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: now but here's the thing that they don't want me
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: to say and it's not necessarily their fault because i
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: think they as a university are trying their ass off.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: They disappear so if it's a friday night so i
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: went back i spoke Our mutual friend Brian Floyd went
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: to Washington State. They played Wazoo for homecoming. He flew in.
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: He'd never been to an SEC game, so I took him.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: And I just went as a normal person, not media,
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: not credentialed, and I just kind of looked around town. Like,
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: just sort of took it all in for the first time.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: So we're walking around and all this stuff. It's Friday
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: night on the square at Ole Miss. They got a
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: big game. They were ranked number three in the country, Bo.
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: Wherever that undergraduate enrollment went for the minority culture, it
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: still doesn't exist socially. Do you see what I'm saying?
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: There's a weird thing that happens in the South where
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: if you don't go to an HBCU, you go home
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: on Friday at a school. And there's a lot of
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: reasons for that, and we probably don't have time to
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: get into it. But if you go to Auburn or
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: Ole Miss or Alabama, it's a little bit different now,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: but it used to be the majority of the minority enrollment,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: they would go off campus or go out of town
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: or whatever. They go to Memphis, they go to Atlanta, whatever.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: And so- the thing you get on the B-roll before
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: the game kicks off is still the Lily White concept.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: It's still the shit that looks like 1963. And so
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: that dissonance is still there, even though when you walk
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: on campus on a Thursday morning, it's more multicultural than
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: I ever thought it could be. So it's a fascinating disconnect.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: And they ain't never getting rid of that mascot. So,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: and that's the thing.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: One of my pushbacks, and I get where guys like Lane,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: who work there and don't have an investment of it,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: You can keep your hashtag come to the sip as
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: far as I'm concerned. As long as you fight to
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: be the if you fight to be the Ole Miss Rebels,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: I am going to treat you like you're the Ole
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: Miss Rebels. You don't get to act like you're these
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: other people in order to woo the talent and then
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: bounce back into it when you try to sell your
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: brand to something larger.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: Like I'm insistent upon this.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: Like I know there's a movement to go back to
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: refer to the school of the University of Mississippi.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: I'm like, no, not yet. Not yet. You're not fooling me. Oh,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: I got my ass kicked on social because when I
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: write for the Post, it's AP style. So AP style
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: and sports references that you don't call them Ole Miss,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: not because of any kind of racial sensitivity. On first reference,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: it's a state university name. So you have to call
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: them Mississippi. So I wrote a piece that really didn't
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: have anything to do with it. It was just college football.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: And it was about Lane. And in the headline, it
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: was Mississippi. It was not Ole Miss. And I try
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: and insert Mississippi where I can, mainly just because it
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: needles a bunch of people I know. Honestly, I'm just
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: screwing with them. And I got just an avalanche of
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: hate on social because they thought it was sort of
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: a mindful decision. So the Ole Miss thing, I'll say
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: this on this show, and I guess it's breaking news,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: I guess. I was told by an individual who had
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: direct access to the decision-making process at the University of Mississippi–
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: That going all the way back to the summer of 2020,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: a working group was put together and a plan has
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: been written and put into place to eliminate rebels. It's
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: just when are we actually going to flip that switch?
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: All right?
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: Right. So they're going to keep the blue and they're
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: going to keep the red because they say that that's
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: Ivy League inspired. And they're just going to exist as
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: a non-mascotted sort of like a Stanford concept. And they're
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: just simply waiting for the right time to do it.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know what the rubric is on the timeline
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: or anything like that, but they are just simply going
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: to exist non-rebels. Now, my question back was, well, what Pollyanna,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: what cheery day can you create in Mississippi where you
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: think you can flip that switch without all hell getting raised?
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: Like, is it winning a national title?
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: You can't say that you put Ole Miss on a stick,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: but you can't bring sticks to the stadium like they
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: did with the flag.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: It's not that simple. You and I will never see
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: the day where it's completely stripped out.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: That's never going to happen. I think the best that
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: you could offer is eliminating the concept rebels in any way, shape,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: or form. And then after that, it would be a much,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: much slower marginalization of the handful of tropes. But I
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: will tell you that in that winning cures all mentality,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: you don't see the on-campus protests about it anymore. And
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: you don't see that like kind of page A1 divisiveness.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: And it's only because they have a winning football program, right?
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: That winning cures all is still fascinating. Has it fixed
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: the underlying issues? Not particularly. But it's weird what commerce
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: does to this situation. Like it's weird. How much out-of-state
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: enrollment has changed it? How much paying the athletes has
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: changed it? Hey, man, I'm going to tell you something.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: You're going to be on your damn P's and Q's
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: when you got a $ 3 million minority, a $ 4 million minority,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: a $ 5 million minority skill position player who could just
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: up and leave your ass, right? Your culture has to
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: be a hell of a lot more genuine when the
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: players have this much more agency. And so whether we
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: like the way they're finally coming around or not, I
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: have accepted the fact that they are in big ways
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: I never expected. at least coming around to a level
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: of civility that I did not see in my time there.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I tell you, as we wrap, you sent a
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: tweet about five or six years ago that I will
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: never forget.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: And this was in the midst of.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: What made me stop rooting for Texas, their insistence upon
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: the eyes of Texas, in spite of people being like, hey,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: we're really offended by this. And they're like, no, you're
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: going to stand for this shit. You're going to like
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: it too. Where you said that Texas... is Texas looks
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: at Oklahoma as Ole Miss looks at Alabama, not understanding
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: why it is that they're better than we are.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: It is not exactly like Alabama turned into Cal Berkeley,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: but Alabama did decide that they were not. What's the
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: what's the game change? They were like, we're not getting
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: out inward. It's not going to happen. Oh, all the
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: other hand, it's like this is the only chance we have.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: No, the secret redneck conversation is always as a redneck
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: passing individual is very simple. You go to a tailgate,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: and nobody's going to want to talk about this. Okay,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: you go to a tailgate in the South, and Ole
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: Miss gets brought up. The first thing that every white
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: tailgater says is they should have never gotten rid of
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: the mascot. And if you respond to an Alabama fan,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: a Georgia fan, a Texas, whatever, and I say, cool,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: would you be the Rebels? Ooh, dude, I don't know, no, no, no, no, no.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: Is that because they are culturally enlightened? Hell no, dude,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: I'm from Bibb County, Georgia. There's no difference. But you
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: go to Bibb County, Georgia right now and ask all
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: those sidewalk dog alumni. All right. How much do you believe?
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: How outraged are you? Are you going to be the
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: University of Georgia Rebels next season? Hell no. No. Not
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: a chance.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: They won't do that. But they also haven't had a
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: black quarterback in 20 years. And that is a discussion.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: Not had a black quarterback in 20 years in a
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: state with Cam Newton, Sean Watson.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: Might have could have used one. They had Justin Fields
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: and were like, nah. Gunnar Stockton might have rolled right
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: a little bit differently last week.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, man.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: Steven Godfrey. Check him out. Split Zone Duo. Check him out.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: Yahoo Sports. The Washington Post. My bad. This has been fantastic, man.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: We got to do this again soon. Absolutely. Anytime, sir.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: All right, I appreciate it.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: on The Right Time. We do this four times a week.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: Ryan Brumley handles everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Remember, oh,
• 1:06:49
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• 1:06:55
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• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: a hater. And we'll talk to you guys in a
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: couple of days.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: Take it easy.