Latest / Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell / The Life Admin of Divorce & Co-Parenting - with Mia Northrup

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The Life Admin of Divorce & Co-Parenting - with Mia Northrup · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate the podcast.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Finding the space for all of you in life and love.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Sally Anna Arnold, and this podcast is for anyone wanting to reclaim and liberate themselves in their relationships and their lives.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever you are on your relationship journey, these conversations lead to you right there.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Exult and deeply supportive DNAs with me and interviews with other gorgeous humans.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Moving you from where you are to where you most want to be.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: A life and love completely aligned with your deepest desires to have it all on your own terms.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you're seeking a relationship and a life that lights up all of you, you're in the right place.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm chatting with Mia Northrop, who is a trained coach, co-host of the Life Admin Life Hacks podcast, and co-author of a soon-to-be released book, Life Admin Hacks.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: After a diverse and dynamic career in Melbourne, London, and New York, Mia was on the cusp of burnout.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: So she partnered with a longtime schoolfriend, also juggling work and home, to find a better way for themselves and other working parents.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Mia now supports individuals and employees to streamline their life admin so they can reclaim their free time and mental space, save money, and nurture household harmony.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: A co-parent of two primary school aged kids, Mia values living authentically and inspiring others to do the same.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the podcast, Mia.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you so much for having me, Sally Ann.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really good to have you on today.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there's an inkling of this in your bio, but I wonder if you can kick off by sharing with us a little more about your story and how the how and the why you came to start Life Admin Life Hacks.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, head back to 2018.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: I had a girls' weekend away with some old school friends, three women I've known since I was about 14 years old.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: And you know how these things go.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: We were drinking wine, we're eating cheese, and we were venting about work.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, you know, it's inevitable.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Talking about kids and work and partners and life.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: And somehow we landed on the topic of life admin and how it was just out of control.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: It was overwhelming and like we're organized people, we're professional, we uh pay attention to paperwork, but we still felt that we were carrying the burden of it in our household for one thing, which just felt like too much.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: But there was just this endless filing and decluttering and meal planning, and you know, it seemed to be that we're having to organize our social lives and the kids' social lives and all the school stuff and all the plans and policies that were expiring.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: And we thought someone must have crashed this because this is taking up way too much time and headspace and it's stressing us out.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, are there resources out there that we just don't know about?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: And we had a look around, like we're literally Googling things with uh wine glasses in hand, and there was nothing.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: So we decided then and there to write a book.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, you know what, we should actually start a podcast before we write the book because it'll help us build an audience and it'll make us responsible to our listenership to actually research these topics and find the best practices.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and now we're building a business around it because every time we talk about this to people about life admin, they're like, oh my God, yes, I need help.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's incredibly out of control, it's stressing me out, telling me what I need to do.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: And that's yeah, that's our origin story.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's always the necessity is the mother of invention kind of deal.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And as you were, as you were describing all of the things, you know, the bills and the insurance policies and the social stuff, I could feel that in my body.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, oh my God, yes, I know, I know that, I know that feeling.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone, that's it.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: You have that visceral response.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: You're either feeling it in your chest, thinking, oh yeah, or you know that you've got that mental chatter that's distracting you from things during the day or keeping you up at night when you're just thinking constantly of all the things that you need to be doing.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: It takes up so much time and energy.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really, really excited to get my hands on your book and I've loved your podcast already.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now I know you're a co-parent to two primary school-aged kids.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you've gone through your own separation and have a personal perspective on the unique load, mental load or admin load, really, of separation and divorce.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I know when I speak with my clients, when I work with my clients, I speak to them about becoming the CEO of their own divorce, taking on taking control and being on top of all the things, but it is really challenging because it's a big load.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I wonder if you can talk us through how you, as the life admin champion that you are, manage the admin aspects of your own separation and what were the key things you needed to get sorted?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Just step us through.
• 5:31
  unknown: Yeah.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is a big load.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: And when you're going through the process and dealing with all of the emotion that comes with it, it sort of amplifies how much headspace it takes up.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and I think on a recent episode, I listened to you talking about, you know, when you're going through this, you're just thinking about it all of the time.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: But there are certain things that I think are very helpful to get sorted and that I focused on.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: For me, the key words were transparency and access to all the life admin stuff for both of us, for both me and my kids' dad.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: So this was around the location of important documents, bills, statements.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: We set up cloud storage so that we could both go online and get access to all the important bills related to documents related to our family.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: We also made sure we both had password managers so we could access all of the accounts, because often you'll find that, you know, you know the passwords to some things, your partner might have the passwords to other things, and you'll log in for each other, or you'll ask them, you know, can you check this?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: And you don't actually have full access to all of the finances, the bank, the credit cards, the utilities, the super, the insurances.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: So to make sure both of us had access to everything we needed, we set up password managers and just sort of brain dump into those.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: We also set up uh shared digital calendars with all the family events and children's activities in there so that both of us could see who had what when.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: And if we had a you know a shared family occasion, if it was a birthday or Christmas or whatever it might be, that this was in a shared space.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: So there was sort of one point of truth about all of the kids' responsibilities and activities and things we needed to just be across.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: And we also set up a shared family email address so that communications, say from the school or from the extracurricular, you know, the netball, the soccer, the music, all of the stuff.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: All of the things also health, all of the things, and also health, you know, anything that sort of led to us as a family could go to this shared family email address.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: So we just used the Google Suite for that.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: We got a Gmail, we got Google Drive, and we use the Google Calendar, and that integrates pretty well with the you know personal calendars and work calendars that we had.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: So that was the focus is just really that access and the transparency of where everything was and who needed to be where, when.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's fantastic.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And do you still use that system?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lifesaver.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it really is.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's um it's something that has made us more disciplined in how we just measure manage lists and calendars generally.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think just having these single sources of truth and it helps us set the other person up for success.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, especially with calendar events, we can talk a bit more about that in in as we get into it.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, we we agreed, we negotiated that with the kids.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: We have a week-on, week off arrangement.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's like whatever happens with the kids during the week when you have them, you're on point.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, if a birthday invitation comes in, you are SVP and you're putting it in the shared digital calendar.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: But if it happens to fall in the week that the other parent will be looking after the child, there needs to be enough detail in there so that that other parent could just hit the ground running.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: So you need to know where and when, and if they need to bring a costume or, you know, has the present been bought?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: All of that stuff that needs to go in the calendar entry.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: So who does buy the present?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's an interesting point.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's it's not necessarily life admin.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I suppose it is.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Who buys the present?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely life admin.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, we have a whole chapter on gifts.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a massive thing of life admin, a lot of planning.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so who buys the gifts?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it can happen in two ways.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: If one of my children gets the invitation and gets super excited and knows what they want to buy, and we have the conversation sort of that week, then that parent will buy the gift.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: If they haven't really thought about it and it's the day before and the other parents on duty, then it's the other parents' responsibility.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: So we have a bit of a discussion there.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it's key to communicate where you're at with the present buying and not assume that the other person has taken care of it.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: What do you what did you or do you find the biggest life admin challenges as you nav, I guess as you navigated your separation is really what I'm asking.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So what were the biggest at life admin challenges at that point?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And how how did you overcome or work through them?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I guess for me, it was very much around actually setting up the second home.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: So when we split and had two residences, finding an apartment, securing that rental, furnishing it, setting up the electricity, the gas, the internet, the contents insurance, uh, you know, a new credit card, all of these things.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: They're not complicated tasks, but there were just so many of them.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: And you had to really do them in a certain sequence.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I couldn't set up, get the contents insurance sorted until I'd finished buying all of the stuff and furnishing place.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I made a lot of checklists.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think one of the keys to adulting and life admin is lists.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: You just have to embrace lists.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of lists just to work through methodically.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I sort of researched what should be on those lists by doing a lot of Googling around, you know, buying a new place or setting up a new place.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: And there are lots of wonderful articles you can strip for ideas, but a lot of checklists.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think the other big admin challenge was also around shifting the kids to a new routine in terms of what I did and what their dad did.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: And we kind of started emulating, we we initially went to like a two to five um custody arrangement with the kids staying with one parent for two days, the other parent for two days, and then the other for five.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: And we started to actually emulate that before we split the households so that they got used to who was dropping them off on certain days and who was picking them up on certain days.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't too much of a jolt when we actually did, you know, split physically.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that that that was a challenge, just to um, you know, it was a bit of change management required in terms of working, you know, negotiating between my ex-husband and me, who was doing what, and him getting his head around what that meant for time and schedule and work and that kind of thing.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: But we got there, and it did make the overall transition a lot smoother.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's good if you can put in place some of those things before you actually physically separate and physically move into new spaces so that everybody gets to always practice, practice it, get used to it.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you can tweak it too.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: You can tweak it a little bit if things don't quite work.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now I know a little bit of your story, and I know that you were pretty methodical and organized, and you've just explained a little bit of how how methodical and organized you were as you stepped through the separation process.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: What really worked for you and what, if anything, would you do differently from and I'm talking from a life admin, a life admin from a marriage perspective.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, we can perhaps discuss that in another episode.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's a whole other episode.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what worked?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think what worked was having a really long time horizon.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think one of my friends said, this is the slowest separation on earth.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what the hell?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that was a bonus because we were in a position to do things slowly, which I know is not the case for many people.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we did this over like six months.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so there was no whiplash, you know, we were able to ease into different changes and see how everyone was going, and nothing had to happen sort of suddenly.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um and that was that was great because it let the kids adjust, it let us adjust, we could prepare things, nobody was sort of financially put on the edge.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and while it did, I don't know, it is a long chunk of time that that really worked for us.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing that worked was uh decluttering, which was kind of a funny thing to start to do.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: But I really, all there was a practical reason.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: The practical trigger was thinking about, well, if we're setting up another apartment, what do we have that's lying around that's surplus that I can actually use in the other apartments instead of buying new everything?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then also just identifying all the things around the primary house that needed to be fixed or bought so that it could just keep humming along.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just a very sort of cleansing activity to set this baseline of we've gone through every room in the house, we know what we have, we know what's extra, we know what needs to um, you know, what we need to address so that in the aftermath things can just hum along as smoothly as possible.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I know you did a blog post recently about decluttering after you've separated and how therapeutic it can be and how practical it would be.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: But yes, decluttering and preparation was also it just yeah, it worked really well in terms of thinking what we what are we gonna need for two households.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's so interesting because we did it too.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, we did it.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: All right, did you?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: We did that too, yes, because we had time as well, and we could take it slowly.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was just gonna say we did the decluttering, really.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: I did the decluttering and and pretty much I set I set my now ex-husband up in his rental.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's yeah, you know, so I set it all up.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: He was still really busy at work, so I just and I was at that point not working home with two young kids.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I did the declutter and gave him the stuff I didn't want, and then we filled the gap.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, so you go through, you look at your linen closet and you realize, oh my god, I have a lot of towels and I have a lot of sheets and you know, tea towels or whatever.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, I can actually physically set up a whole second household with this stuff.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of funny.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: So what the second part of that question was what if anything would you do differently?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: That is a good question.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so originally we we were going to get an apartment, we were going to do the bird's nest thing where the kids stay in the primary family home and the parents come and go until they, you know, move out properly.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um that didn't eventuate.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: I ended up actually just moving out to the apartment.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I hadn't set up the apartment for the kids to come and stay because that hadn't been the plan.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: And instead, I was just going back and forth to the house in the morning and in the evenings for several months on our sort of two two five arrangement.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I would get there in early in the morning before that even woken up, and I'd be there all day doing school stuff and running around.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'd leave once they'd fallen asleep.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: And this was um the thinking around this was that it was going to be easier for them to just stay in their normal house instead of the shock of sort of coming to this new apartment all of a sudden.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: But for me, it was utterly exhausting, like just physically and emotionally, just getting up so early and that late and kind of like camping in my old house.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that went on for too many months.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: And in hindsight, I should have shortened that and made that transition a lot shorter.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: The kids in the end were like, when are we staying at your place, Mum?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is what's happening.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: Why can't we stay at your place?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, okay, do you want to stay there?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because it was tiny, this tiny little apartment.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, Yeah, of course we do.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it just sort of reminded me that um, you know, if your kids' home is where you are, because I I just didn't think that they would want to stay there.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: It was full of foreign stuff and it wasn't that appealing of a place.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: But they didn't care about that, they just wanted to hang out with me.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's interesting.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes our kids lead us through a different uh down a different pathway than what we thought we would be leading them down as we separate, divorce, and then reorganise the family afterwards.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was a moving little insight when that happened.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes, our kids are our teachers at times.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Always all right.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to ask you about mental load.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, still in 2021, in the majority of heteronormative couples, especially where children are involved, women carry the bulk of mental load.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: So for the sake of clarity, most of I think most of my our listeners will know, but for the sake of clarity, can you explain what mental load is?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: How we can reduce it.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm especially curious to see how or if your mental load has changed as a co-parent.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, in this is I noticed in a lead up to Father's Day, there were a lot of articles around the mental load and who does what and domestic labor.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's a phrase that I think is getting more familiar to people.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: In the book, we say the mental load is the thinking, planning, and anticipating that keeps chaos at bay.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: So it's all the remembering and the organizing that goes along with actually doing a task.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: And you'll know you're carrying the mental load in the relationship if a partner says things to you like, so what are we doing for so-and-so's birthday?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Or what's the plan for the school holidays?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: Or, you know, if you're the person that has to decide what everyone's getting for Christmas, or only you know that a certain part of someone's uniform needs to be washed ready for sport next week, that's you carrying the mental load because you're having to do all the planning and thinking and anticipating.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: In terms of uh how we can reduce it and what happened as a co-parent, I think one of the key things is to make a lot of those invisible tasks visible and actually talk about them, communicate them in the in a household, in a family.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: So that things like deciding what's for dinner every night doesn't fall to one person is actually discussed because someone has meal planning is a thing.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's a task that needs to be done and it shouldn't sit with one person.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: So making things visible and discussed and recognizing who overfunctions in a relationship when it comes to life admin and who is underfunctioning.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a that's their terms I came across from an American writer, Harriet Lerner, who's a psychologist and academic.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: And she writes about, she's got two great books actually that I highly recommend called The Dance of Anger and The Dance of Intimacy.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: And she talks about people who will overfunction in times of stress andor anxiety.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a dynamic where a person will whirr into action, they become super competent and they take over and they'll just manage a situation.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: And the other person in the relationship will underfunction and they kind of check out, they'll get all lazy and complacent.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a pattern that becomes very entrenched and it's quite polarizing and it's very unhealthy and unsatisfying to both parties.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it's how a lot of um how a lot of relationships can end up working when it comes to things like life admin.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: One person will be all over it and probably very stressed and resentful about it, and the other person's kind of checked out to a degree.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: So these can be perhaps.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's really helpful that you kind of identify them and very, very interesting.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: And in terms of the mental load and whether it went up or down after separating or you know, changing as a co-parent, it's a really good question, Selyan, because I think in some respects and some aspects of life admin, it stays the same because now I run my own household, I still have to be across uh, you know, all the paperwork, all the things that need to happen to just run a household.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: But it has definitely dropped in terms of things related to the kids.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: So we decided that we would sort of split responsibilities for the life admin related to each kid.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm on point for life admin related to my daughter, and my ex-husband is on point for the life admin relate to my son.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: So that means whatever comes up for them in terms of um sport or social life or you know the things that are happening to them, he has to organize.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: He's on point for that.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: And and likewise, I run all this sort of extracurricular stuff and social life stuff for my daughter.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's also dropped because there has been an awareness in my ex-partner that of the load that I was carrying.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so now he's actually much more likely to make suggestions about gifts or social events or holiday plans or whatever it might be.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I think he's had to function more highly when he's running his household, and it's sort of, I don't know, switched, switched that switch or grown that muscle, or never's happened.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: So there's been a bit of an awakening there.
• 23:57
  unknown: Yeah.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: What have you found?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: I would have found I would say yes, that's happened with us.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um we yeah, in some ways it's it's the same or even increased because all of those tasks that have to happen for a household to function, all those life admin tasks, they're all there and then and they're all mine now.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: So in some ways it's perhaps even higher, but in other ways, as you said, ways that are related to the kids are lower.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we did it differently.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: We split it in that if you've got the kids and the email comes into from the school, is your responsibility.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: You you answer, you respond, you deal.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um I would say too, we had a different dynamic in that um my ex-husband for for a long time pre-COVID was actually living overseas and only in the country for four or five days at a time every three weeks.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I still carried uh the vast majority of the mental life admin load because he just physically wasn't here.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think had we adopted the Google Calendar, the Google Drive, and all the that that part, I think that would have been useful for us.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: We've since tried a few different things, driven mostly by our kids.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um we've just just settled back into the regular rhythm.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: But now that we are week on, week off, like you, and and also my kids are older, um, they take on some of the life admin load for themselves.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, that's great.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Only Eva really Eva does.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Elliot's still learning.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, so now we're week on week off.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's very much if they're with you, it's your job, if they're with me, it's my job.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, depending where they are.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um interesting that you split it 50-50 like that for each child.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: How does that play out practically?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: For example, if the life admin task needs to be done while they're with so a lot, for example, life admin task for your son needs to be implemented, but it actually impacts your time because the thing that's happening is when he's with you.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess the way we sort of define the mental load is it's is it's the planning and the organizing.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't necessarily have to be the execution of the task.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: So if you think about like dinner, making dinner, the mental load is actually organizing what's for dinner, thinking about what has to be on the shopping list, who actually makes dinner is that's not a mental thing, it's just it's just housework.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I guess that's where we sort of split up.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: If if someone else ends up having to do the thing with the child, then that's fine.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: But it's the other person who needs to do all the organizing and planning.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: And pay the pay the netball fees and have the uniform and make sure make sure the runners fit and all of that.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: Which has been, you know, during the pandemic when things have been cancelled, rescheduled, postponed.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: There's a there's a lot, there's a lot of emails coming from schools and extracurricular places with all of these contingency plans and the life admin load for everyone is so high because of all the communication that we're having to digest from the government, from employers, organizations.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's yeah, it's never been high right now.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's having an impact, that's for sure.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Another impact I see of mental load in my clients, whether they're in a relationship that they're finding challenging or working their way through a separation divorce is decision fatigue.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, COVID comes, yeah, I think COVID comes into that too.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many decisions, big ones, small ones, to be made every single day when you're working your way through a separation divorce, that it becomes just becomes overwhelming.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, as you said before, you're constantly thinking about it.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: But the decision fatigue is another element to that.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder, did you experience that?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: I know I did.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Did you experience that?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And if you did, can you share a little bit about it and how you navigated your way to it?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I um it was to do with setting up the new.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: That was like the tipping point for me because I had to, you know, you're gonna buy all this new furniture and homewares.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you look at a bedroom and you think, all right, I need a bed, I need a mattress, I need a mattress protector, I need bedside tables, I need a lamp, I need linen.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's just uh, it was endless.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: And all of that buying, and I'm the kind of person that has to like research purses, I have to comparison shop, I have to look up, you know, I have to read the choice articles and the reports and work out is that the best toaster?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: Is that gonna be value for money?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like I can't just walk into a shop and buy something.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: So even though I know all the resources, even though I've got all this sort of life admin skilled and capability, it still was pretty exhausting.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: And the the we got to a point where I had set up everything in the apartment, but I didn't have a fridge.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I just couldn't, am I allowed to swear on this podcast?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't be asked to buy a fridge.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't, I couldn't look at one more report comparing different models and brands, or deciding whether I wanted like a white one or a stainless steel one or what side of the fridge the handle should be on.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I couldn't, I couldn't get my head around having to go to the good guys or Harvey Norman and stare me.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just I just went vegan for a few months.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: I stopped buying meat and I stopped buying, I couldn't buy any meat and I couldn't buy any dairy because I couldn't keep anything cold in the apartment.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I just ate vegan while I was at home.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's how that's how much decision fatigue I had.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I did that.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: I only bought a fridge when the kids were going to come and stay with me.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, all right, now I think I can actually face that decision because it was just, I just made so many.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I I'd been pretty methodical in terms of working through my checklists and um I need the resources to use to go and you know find out what fridge I should buy.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a classic overthinker, as you can hear.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: And this is probably an area where I really wished I had asked for support from my friends and family to help me research and just come and do some shopping and to help me put together some furniture and make some recommendations because I really did just do it all by myself.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: And um yeah, I really should have lent on the people around me for some help there.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's an easy thing to say in hindsight, too.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that there is an element there of or an aspect there of just stepping out and wanting to do it yourself, want really claiming that for yourself.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is mine, this is my house, this is my fucking fridge.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, you've got to actually buy the fridge.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I think yes, leaning on others is really important, but so is so is really claiming that new version of your life for yourself.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's part of something in that.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's definitely a bit of a bit of it's definitely a bit of that.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just sort of visioning how you want your life to be and and choosing things that are going to align with that.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: There's also um, I know I was listening to one of your episodes about how friends and family react and the kind of freezing out that can happen and how awkward it can be to actually talk about these things with friends and family.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: And while they must realize in the background, you know, this is happening, you're setting up another home.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, in some circumstances, it's just it's just not really talked about very explicitly.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: And people are reluctant to ask or suggest help or find out what's happening, and it can just be super awkward.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think there was a bit of that going on as well.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that episode that you're talking about is um where I spoke about yeah, being frozen out, but I think the freezing comes from there are different aspects to the freezing, and and I know I found I found that I was fiercely independent.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was fine.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was doing all the things externally.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was what I was projecting.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so some of the freezing that I experienced was because they're like, oh, she's fine, she's doing it all fine, she's okay over there.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um overfunctioning?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Overfunctioning, exactly, exactly.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't an overfunctioning in life admin, it was an overfunctioning in doing all the well, yes, life admin is one part of that, but doing all the things.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it is really important if you listeners, um, if this resonates with you and you're an overfunctioner, asking for help and support and allowing others in, whether it be life admin, buying a fridge, looking after your kids for a day, whatever it is.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, being vulnerable, which is courageous.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is a beautiful place to end this conversation, Mia.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, before we do, where can the listeners find you?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: And when is your book going to be released?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: And how can we find it?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: People can find our podcast, Life Admin Life Hacks on any podcast player.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: We're just about to release season six in about a month, so you've got some time to go and work through the archives.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: You can find us on Instagram and Facebook.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: You might want to head along to lifeadminlifehacks.com and sign up for our monthly momentum newsletter where we give little nudges about what you might like to focus on to get your life admin into shape each month.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then Jan, January 5, the books are going to come out.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: You can actually sign up on our website to be notified when the book launches as well.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like a January New Year, New U, Less Life Admin 2022 coming your way.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: So good and so exciting.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's congratulations.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: Very exciting.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, my lucky, and we'll drop all of that, all of that stuff I'll drop in the show notes.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's easy for listeners to find you and get their life admin um absolutely sorted for 2022.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Last question I always ask my podcast guests is if you could choose one song to play for the listeners to ease their overwhelm or to support them as they navigate their way through a separation, what would it be?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: I love that you asked your guests this question because I think music is so powerful to regulate your emotions and shift your energy.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I use it for all sorts of aspects of my life.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a really strong ritual that you can nurture.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I find that I actually have like a it triggers like a Pavlovian response when I play certain songs.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that you have this.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to be greedy and actually suggest two.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: One, I have like a fire up, giddy up you can do this song.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's called Heard Them Say by Laika Lee 47.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: And she's an American hip hop artist.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's a really blunt, in-your-face song full of curse words about if you want your life to change, you've got to walk the talk.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it just gets me fired up every time I listen to it, it gives me goosebumps.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then I actually had a playlist that I used to play when we started living in separate homes because I found the transition from when I was in mum mode when they were with me for a week, transitioning back to, you know, solitude mode, really emotionally taxing.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because you kind of, you know, one week is full of activity and clutter and noise.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then you have this, you know, you're switching to the next zone of quiet and calm.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a little playlist that used to help me get in and out of those songs like to prepare.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and one of those songs was called Cruisen by Smokey Robinson.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a really old song from the 70s.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's this really romantic song.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of just sing it to myself because it was about the big picture of what I wanted for my life.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I was kind of reclaiming my dream of what I wanted for a future relationship.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it was this, it was might sound like an odd choice, but um, it used to put me in a really good mood about the possibilities of the future.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect choices.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: I love both of them.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that they're so different.
• 36:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: They're so tough.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Just Smokey Robinson.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like hardcore red-root hip-hop, but um the energy, man, it's all about the energy that it elicits.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it worked.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for sharing your energy with us today.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's been just the best discussion.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't wait to get my hands on your book.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely I will be signing up.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: Woo-hoo.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: I I, you know, this book is it's funny because it's kind of while it's going to help a lot of people on that sort of that personal development of getting those skills together.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: For me, it's almost it feels like this intersection with social justice because it really is going to give so many people.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: And when I say people, mostly women, it's going to give them so much time back and so much headspace back because they'll be able to get this stuff streamlined and out of the way and have way more time for things that matter more.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love it so, so much.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Not just for separation, but yeah, women, families, people who are separating, but just generally give that time back.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine what we can do, imagine the good we can do in the world with that time.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that, folks, was Mia Northrop of Life Admin Life Hacks.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: You can connect with Mia via the links that I'll drop in the show notes, and that will include how you can go on pre-order.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: The pre-order list for her book, which is due for release January 2022.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, you'll be able to access the links to the songs Mia chose for us to listen to.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us in this discussion on life admin, life hacks as you navigate a relationship transition or divorce.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, Relationship Coach, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow me on Instagram at ReflectCoaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love this episode, please, please share it with them.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also be so grateful if you'd follow the podcast and review this episode so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more humans just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll join me next time for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Until then.