Latest / The Book Deal / The Writing Deal: Natasha, Madeleine and Tina discuss editing deadlines, getting heckled and reading while writing

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The Writing Deal: Natasha, Madeleine and Tina discuss editing deadlines, getting heckled and reading while writing · The Book Deal

• 0:00
  This is the Book Deal podcast where you will discover the inspiring stories behind your favorite books.
• 0:08
  We interview seasoned and debut authors, as well as publishing industry professionals to bring you the best tips and advice on how to get that elusive book deal.
• 0:22
  So no matter what stage of writing your at.
• 0:27
  We've got you covered.
• 0:29
  I'm Tina Strachan.
• 0:30
  I'm Madeleine Cleary.
• 0:32
  And I'm Natasha Rai.
• 0:34
  And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors one deal at a time.
• 0:42
  The Book Deal podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters, which it's recorded on and pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
• 0:56
  Madeleine Cleary: Hello, ladies Hello.
• 0:57
  Madeleine Cleary: Hello.
• 0:58
  Madeleine Cleary: Good morning.
• 0:59
  Madeleine Cleary: Um- Everyone's looking beautiful with our new portrait lighting- I know.
• 1:02
  Madeleine Cleary: Thank you for showing me that
• 1:04
  Natasha Rai: little
• 1:04
  Madeleine Cleary: trick
• 1:06
  Tina Strachan: that we've discovered on Zoom.
• 1:06
  Natasha Rai: So I'm so curious'cause it's been a month already.
• 1:09
  Natasha Rai: I don't know how, but it has.
• 1:11
  Natasha Rai: What have you been up to, Tina?
• 1:12
  Natasha Rai: What's your update?
• 1:13
  Natasha Rai: What have you been doing?
• 1:15
  Tina Strachan: Oh, um, yes, lots of writing.
• 1:18
  Tina Strachan: I think last time we chatted, I chatted about, um, the manuscript that I was working on that was, uh, really, really intense and just really took a lot of my brain space and a lot of my, um, my nervous system energy as well.
• 1:33
  Tina Strachan: Um, so I've actually tried to sort of pare back a little bit from that and, uh, and have a little bit of a break.
• 1:38
  Tina Strachan: So I've just spent this last week, um, not in that head writing space.
• 1:43
  Tina Strachan: Head writing space?
• 1:44
  Tina Strachan: Writing head space, um, and which has been really good, but it's also allowed me to catch up on a, a, a few things that I've sort of had put to the side as well because I couldn't get my brain out of that.
• 1:54
  Tina Strachan: So a lot of like, you know, the author admin, which we, which we talk about a lot, and, um, so that, that's been nice.
• 2:00
  Tina Strachan: Um, I did a kids' workshop actually at a beautiful bookstore up in Palmwoods, which is on the Sunshine Coast here in Queensland, at The Little Book Nook, it's called, and Kay, the, the wonderful, um, owner there, uh, that...
• 2:15
  Tina Strachan: The little shop is great.
• 2:16
  Tina Strachan: It's, um...
• 2:17
  Tina Strachan: it's a, just a kids' bookstore, uh, features lots of, um, you know, local authors, and, uh, it's in such a beautiful space with, like, a little cafe around it, and oh, it was so nice.
• 2:27
  Tina Strachan: It was such a beautiful day, and just all you could smell was, like, people's bacon and eggs coming past.
• 2:31
  Tina Strachan: And, and you know, we just sat there and, and had a nice little, um, writing workshop, created our own little zoo stories, and, and then we did some, some fun craft afterwards.
• 2:40
  Tina Strachan: So that was really beautiful, and it was lovely to go up there and, visit the store,'cause I hadn't been yet.
• 2:45
  Tina Strachan: So, so that was fun.
• 2:46
  Tina Strachan: And, yeah, so I've also been preparing for a few other workshops coming up, and, I will be also helping out in a couple of weeks with, Bethany Loveridge's, book launch, so, getting my head into that space as well.
• 2:58
  Tina Strachan: So, her new book, Josie Mack, will be out, in a few weeks, and so that's gonna be really fun at, Quick Brown Fox as well, up in Brisbane.
• 3:07
  Tina Strachan: And, I've been looking into a few grants and, and residencies.
• 3:11
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 3:11
  Tina Strachan: Oh.
• 3:11
  Tina Strachan: There's quite a few around at the moment.
• 3:13
  Tina Strachan: I don't know, have you ladies been keeping an eye out?
• 3:16
  Tina Strachan: No.
• 3:16
  Madeleine Cleary: Which ones?
• 3:17
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm completely, like, I have no idea.
• 3:20
  Tina Strachan: You know what?
• 3:20
  Tina Strachan: I was out, out of the loop too, I think.
• 3:22
  Tina Strachan: And, and, okay, one thing that also that I've done over these last few weeks is I completely cleaned out my bedroom and decluttered, and it's got basically nothing in it now, which is fantastic.
• 3:33
  Tina Strachan: 'Cause I had a huge to be, uh, to be read pile beside my bed and, you know, on the floor and, or just kind of everywhere and, like, you know, notebooks and stuff.
• 3:42
  Tina Strachan: And I just, I was like,"I need to get on top of this and just clear it all out." I did everything.
• 3:46
  Tina Strachan: Ladies, I mopped the walls.
• 3:49
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 3:49
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 3:50
  Tina Strachan: I mopped the walls.
• 3:50
  Tina Strachan: I went hardcore on this, okay?
• 3:52
  Tina Strachan: I had a, a full hyper fixation.
• 3:54
  Tina Strachan: But I tell you what, it's beautiful in there now.
• 3:56
  Tina Strachan: I waited till my husband was away for a few days so he couldn't interrupt me, and he, and just like just went nuts.
• 4:01
  Tina Strachan: Um, and so one big thing that I did was I took my phone out of my bedroom and put it, um- Oh you know, completely into- Mm-hmm my little work nook that I have.
• 4:11
  Tina Strachan: Um, so that I don't...
• 4:13
  Tina Strachan: I mean, it was my alarm, but you know what?
• 4:15
  Tina Strachan: There were alarm clocks before phones, so there is ways around this.
• 4:18
  Tina Strachan: And, um, I, so I, I moved it out, and I tell you what, I've been reading more.
• 4:24
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 4:24
  Tina Strachan: And I've just been, it's just been nice just to not have it there, because I would always jump into bed, which is sort of like, you know, a little bit of time for reading before going to sleep, but, you know, you always pick it up and think,"I'll just check this one thing, and then I'll just check this one thing." Mm-hmm.
• 4:38
  Tina Strachan: So it's worked really well because, um, my s- like, usage of my, you know, social media and stuff has completely gone down hugely.
• 4:46
  Tina Strachan: Well, but the reason why I was saying that and talking about socials and bringing out my room and things like that was my, my, it had gone, my usage had gone down completely.
• 4:55
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 4:56
  Tina Strachan: So- Yes it has gone back up in the last probably week, um, for a few reasons.
• 5:01
  Tina Strachan: Okay, so this is what happened.
• 5:02
  Tina Strachan: So, you know, we were just talking about grants and things like that, and I agree.
• 5:06
  Tina Strachan: I was also c- when I hadn't been on it for, so s- you know, a period of time, um, I was also not really interested in it.
• 5:12
  Tina Strachan: There was like nothing really on there to interest me, and I think it just kind of screws with the algorithm, right?
• 5:18
  Tina Strachan: But once I got back on and I was specifically looking for something, I think I was looking for a grant or I was looking for something else, and on- you know, once I did that, it just like repopulated my algorithm again- Mm-hmm with like all these things that was happening around me, and as much as, you know, you hate, you know, the Insta and the spending the time on it, it was, I find that now it is really good for finding out about all these other things that I just really wasn't finding out about before.
• 5:42
  Tina Strachan: Um, because I mean, I get newsletters and stuff from writers' centers that do have all these- you know, um, links to all these things that are happening.
• 5:48
  Tina Strachan: But it really was, it's just thrown up, like, all these awards and grants and residencies have just been thrown at me now.
• 5:55
  Tina Strachan: So what are you,
• 5:56
  Madeleine Cleary: what, which, can you create a list for me and send it?
• 5:58
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 5:59
  Tina Strachan: Yes, I can.
• 6:01
  Tina Strachan: But I ju- I wrote down a couple that I thought I'd mention just, uh, now, actually- Yes because I know someone.
• 6:06
  Tina Strachan: So the Lighthouse Arts Residency, have you seen that one?
• 6:09
  Tina Strachan: Not really.
• 6:09
  Tina Strachan: In Newcastle?
• 6:10
  Tina Strachan: Yes, it's through the- Mm-hmm Hunters Writers Centre.
• 6:13
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 6:13
  Tina Strachan: Looks incredible.
• 6:14
  Tina Strachan: Um, somebody I know here on the Gold Coast, um, Liv Laorkant, she just recently went, um, and it just looked amazing, and she got so much done.
• 6:22
  Tina Strachan: And you, I think you can stay for a week, I don't know, maybe longer.
• 6:25
  Tina Strachan: Um, that was incredible.
• 6:27
  Tina Strachan: I think that's a rolling one, open, almost- That's right.
• 6:29
  Tina Strachan: Yes all the time.
• 6:30
  Tina Strachan: Um, and there was, uh, one that came up, I don't know if this is a new one or not, but new to me, um, the Spiers Prize.
• 6:38
  Tina Strachan: It's for middle-grade fiction, so anyone writing middle grade, go and check it out.
• 6:42
  Tina Strachan: It's through UWA Publishing.
• 6:45
  Tina Strachan: Um, the prize is$5,000 and a publishing deal.
• 6:49
  Tina Strachan: Amazing.
• 6:50
  Tina Strachan: So, yeah, so have a look at that.
• 6:51
  Tina Strachan: I think it closes at the end of this month, or maybe next month.
• 6:55
  Tina Strachan: So go and check it out, for those of you who are writing middle grade,'cause that's a amazing prize.
• 7:00
  Natasha Rai: Thanks, Tina.
• 7:01
  Tina Strachan: That's
• 7:01
  Natasha Rai: okay.
• 7:02
  Tina Strachan: That was a bit all over the shop, but, but anyway, that's where we're at, and I will make you a list of all these amazing opportunities that are flooding me now.
• 7:09
  Madeleine Cleary: How about you, Mads?
• 7:10
  Madeleine Cleary: What have you been up to?
• 7:12
  Madeleine Cleary: Two, two things.
• 7:13
  Madeleine Cleary: I wanna tell two stories.
• 7:14
  Madeleine Cleary: So- Yes um, yesterday, I finished the rewrite of my book two.
• 7:21
  Madeleine Cleary: Amazing.
• 7:21
  Madeleine Cleary: Congratulations.
• 7:22
  Madeleine Cleary: How did that feel?
• 7:23
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, it felt so good, and I finished at 4:30 on a Friday, so it was just excellent.
• 7:28
  Madeleine Cleary: Just really, just, yeah, and- What'd you do to
• 7:29
  Tina Strachan: celebrate?
• 7:30
  Madeleine Cleary: Well, I went out to dinner with my parents, and we, I saw, um, Devil Wears Prada 2 with Mom.
• 7:38
  Tina Strachan: Oh.
• 7:38
  Tina Strachan: Excellent.
• 7:38
  Tina Strachan: Which
• 7:38
  Madeleine Cleary: was great.
• 7:39
  Madeleine Cleary: So we had margaritas, and it was fantastic.
• 7:43
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, yeah, I'm so happy.
• 7:45
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, my God.
• 7:46
  Madeleine Cleary: I mean, I still need to reread the rewrite, of course.
• 7:49
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and I need to compile all the notes that I've left to myself in various locations, um, that are really all very crucial for the story, and I need to follow up on when I go and do the rewrite.
• 8:03
  Madeleine Cleary: But, um, yeah, I'll do that.
• 8:04
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, but yeah, this, it's, it's taken me a long time, like, over two and a half months.
• 8:10
  Madeleine Cleary: Wow.
• 8:11
  Madeleine Cleary: So, yeah, I really wanna hear from Tash,'cause she, she's rewritten her manuscript in, like, two weeks, the same amount of words, so I just really wanna know her, um, how she did that.
• 8:20
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, yeah, and then the other interesting thing, I got heckled last Tuesday night at an event.
• 8:27
  Madeleine Cleary: First time I've ever been heckled before Oh, I mean, sometimes you get some interesting questions.
• 8:33
  Madeleine Cleary: They're always from men as well, like, in the audience.
• 8:36
  Madeleine Cleary: But this particular occasion, um, I was asked to interview Belinda Alexandra, who is a wonderful historical fiction writer from our city, and she is just absolutely lovely.
• 8:50
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, she is such an incredible and professional and talented person, and her new novel, The Italian Correspondent, is wonderful.
• 8:58
  Madeleine Cleary: I absolutely loved diving into Italy, post-war Italy, so I'd highly recommend it.
• 9:02
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, but yeah, so we went to readings on Tuesday night and, um, we were having a really good chat, and then I noticed there was something in my periphery, and I could hear some, some noises.
• 9:14
  Madeleine Cleary: And I looked over, and this guy had come in from the street.
• 9:17
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, he was holding a cross, a wooden cross, and had a drink of some kind of form in his other hand.
• 9:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and, and it was so funny'cause afterwards, talking with the HarperCollins rep, um, who was there, and, um, she said that he was reaching into his pocket, um, for something at one point, and she was watching him, and he, he, um, pulled out a, a glue gun.
• 9:45
  Madeleine Cleary: A glue gun?
• 9:45
  Madeleine Cleary: That's so
• 9:46
  Natasha Rai: weird.
• 9:47
  Natasha Rai: Look,
• 9:47
  Madeleine Cleary: you get all types at book, um, events in Melbourne, I think.
• 9:51
  Madeleine Cleary: Belinda was great'cause he, he...
• 9:53
  Madeleine Cleary: when we opened it up, well, opened it up for questions, and immediately he started talking.
• 9:58
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and he said, um, uh,"Just wanna clarify, are you one of those woman writers?" Oh, my God.
• 10:06
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, my God.
• 10:07
  Madeleine Cleary: And Belinda was great.
• 10:09
  Madeleine Cleary: She was so good.
• 10:11
  Madeleine Cleary: I was kind of just like,"Ah, I have no idea what to say." What's a woman writer?
• 10:15
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, what does that even mean?
• 10:16
  Madeleine Cleary: A, a writer who is a woman.
• 10:17
  Madeleine Cleary: "Are you one of those woman writers?" That was the kind of tone.
• 10:20
  Madeleine Cleary: Even me.
• 10:21
  Madeleine Cleary: I have no idea.
• 10:21
  Madeleine Cleary: And I feel like it's obvious.
• 10:23
  Madeleine Cleary: I have no idea, but he had his cross and his glue gun and his drink.
• 10:26
  Madeleine Cleary: He was having a great time.
• 10:27
  Madeleine Cleary: He was, yeah.
• 10:29
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 10:29
  Madeleine Cleary: So, um, yeah.
• 10:30
  Madeleine Cleary: Uh, so eventually he did leave, um, but that's the first time I've ever come across that where, you know, it's something...
• 10:37
  Madeleine Cleary: someone's- Yeah stumbled in from the street, and it, it, it, it does make you feel very kind of uncomfortable.
• 10:43
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 10:43
  Madeleine Cleary: So I don't know if any of you have ever had something like that happen before.
• 10:47
  Tina Strachan: No, I haven't.
• 10:49
  Tina Strachan: No.
• 10:49
  Tina Strachan: No, I'm trying to think.
• 10:50
  Tina Strachan: No.
• 10:50
  Tina Strachan: I've had people stumble in.
• 10:52
  Tina Strachan: Well, I've certainly had people st- stumble in, but they've not had, they've been lovely.
• 10:58
  Tina Strachan: Had surprise hugs and things along those lines, but like, no, they've always been
• 11:03
  Madeleine Cleary: Readings were great.
• 11:04
  Madeleine Cleary: The staff there, they kind of had a chat with him.
• 11:06
  Madeleine Cleary: Didn't tell him to leave, just to be respectful, and he eventually moved on very grumpily.
• 11:12
  Madeleine Cleary: But, um, other than that, it was a lovely chat.
• 11:15
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and I, yeah, I feel like I learnt a lot from Belinda and how she handled it herself.
• 11:20
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, she's been in the industry for 24 years.
• 11:23
  Madeleine Cleary: She's probably seen everything- Mm I would say.
• 11:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and she just took it in her stride, was very calm, you know, very considerate.
• 11:31
  Madeleine Cleary: She's had a very interesting life.
• 11:32
  Madeleine Cleary: She, she can manage people, so I think I'm gonna, I'm gonna learn a lesson from that.
• 11:37
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 11:37
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 11:38
  Natasha Rai: Gosh.
• 11:39
  Natasha Rai: How weird.
• 11:40
  Natasha Rai: That has, that's never happened to me, but I've, I know I've scared a couple of people.
• 11:45
  Natasha Rai: Um- Really?
• 11:47
  Natasha Rai: Last year I was doing this event at, um...
• 11:50
  Natasha Rai: Oh my God, I can't believe I did this.
• 11:51
  Natasha Rai: I was at Paramatta Library, and I was doing an event with Zahar Gamilgen, and we were talking about our books, and there were these two young girls leaving.
• 11:58
  Natasha Rai: They were trying to be quiet,'cause we were in this, like, the middle of the library, and I don't know, I just got a mischievous impish spirit in me, and I just yelled out,"Sex!" as they were walking past, and they were so embarrassed.
• 12:11
  Natasha Rai: I don't know why I did it, so I don't know.
• 12:13
  Natasha Rai: 'Cause
• 12:14
  Madeleine Cleary: you're cheeky, that's why.
• 12:17
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 12:18
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh my gosh, Tash, you're so funny.
• 12:21
  Madeleine Cleary: They must have been just mortified.
• 12:22
  Madeleine Cleary: They
• 12:22
  Natasha Rai: were.
• 12:23
  Natasha Rai: They were mortified.
• 12:24
  Natasha Rai: I was just mo- more thinking that they're gonna look at me and go,"Oh my God, there's, like, an old woman yelling out,'Sex!'" which was the funny part in my brain.
• 12:34
  Tina Strachan: Well, as long as, you know, as long as you found it amusing, Tash.
• 12:38
  Tina Strachan: I did.
• 12:40
  Madeleine Cleary: Now, so Tash, also in the last month, we've cau- we caught up, uh, in- Yes in real life, which was really lovely.
• 12:45
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes, we did catch up in real life.
• 12:46
  Madeleine Cleary: In real life, without Tina.
• 12:48
  Madeleine Cleary: Sorry, Tina, we missed you.
• 12:50
  Madeleine Cleary: Down in Frankston, which I'd, I'd never really been to in, in my life, living in Melbourne, which is very funny.
• 12:56
  Madeleine Cleary: There's lots of places I've never been to in Melbourne.
• 12:59
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, yeah.
• 13:00
  Madeleine Cleary: I've, I've driven past it and driven through it.
• 13:03
  Madeleine Cleary: I went to the, the Mount Martha Beach once, but, um, yeah, anyway, that makes me sound very pretentious.
• 13:08
  Madeleine Cleary: But, um, uh, so we were talking, Tash, and I, I remember you saying to me,"Oh, you know, I've, I've...
• 13:15
  Madeleine Cleary: You've got six weeks to submit your, um, your structurals." Um, and I think two weeks had passed, and I said- Yes"I can't believe you're doing this course in Melbourne.
• 13:24
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, how are you fitting it all in?" You're like,"Well, I already finished them," and it was only been two weeks.
• 13:29
  Madeleine Cleary: I was like,"What?" Okay, so I'll- And
• 13:32
  Tina Strachan: it was a big
• 13:33
  Madeleine Cleary: rewrite,
• 13:33
  Natasha Rai: so just
• 13:34
  Madeleine Cleary: tell me how.
• 13:34
  Madeleine Cleary: How are you doing this?
• 13:35
  Madeleine Cleary: Okay, so all right.
• 13:36
  Natasha Rai: So I think, so I realize that I do know something about myself in terms of deadlines.
• 13:41
  Natasha Rai: When I have a deadline, even if I'm worried and scared and panicked, I just figure out how to meet it, and I figure out what's important to me.
• 13:52
  Natasha Rai: So for me- The important part of the six weeks was, yes, I have to get the rewrite done, but I really need someone to read it before I send it back to my publisher.
• 14:03
  Natasha Rai: And I thought,"How..." And I don't want them to read it now, because I know there are things I can fix on my own.
• 14:09
  Natasha Rai: So, so I thought,"Right, if I can finish this in two weeks," and I asked my reader, who is Emily Maguire, if she can do it in two weeks, which she said she can, and then I've got two weeks when she gives it back to me to make any changes that she raises.
• 14:24
  Natasha Rai: So that was motivation enough.
• 14:26
  Natasha Rai: So what I was doing was I said no to pretty much any extra social stuff that I hadn't already organized.
• 14:33
  Natasha Rai: Um, I used literally every minute I possibly had to work on it.
• 14:39
  Natasha Rai: So for example, on a, um, counseling day, when I have big breaks between clients, I usually, like, will watch a video or listen to an audiobook re- all related to therapy and that work.
• 14:54
  Natasha Rai: This time I just used every minute to write, um, instead of doing the professional development.
• 15:01
  Natasha Rai: And then I was waking up...
• 15:03
  Natasha Rai: I was doing, I was doing a Tina basically.
• 15:04
  Natasha Rai: I was waking up extra early to do the writing, then the exercise, and then going to work.
• 15:10
  Natasha Rai: And then the best part, of course, is the...
• 15:13
  Natasha Rai: 'Cause I've been going into Writing New South Wales once a week.
• 15:16
  Natasha Rai: It's just having those six hours or whatever it is- Mm with no, literally no interruptions.
• 15:21
  Natasha Rai: I don't have to do the laundry, I don't have to put a load of, you know- Mm.
• 15:24
  Natasha Rai: C- clear the dishwasher.
• 15:26
  Natasha Rai: So all of those things helped me, and I was just determined- Mm to do it.
• 15:31
  Natasha Rai: So I just made myself do it.
• 15:32
  Natasha Rai: And I also did have a plan, Maz, that I actually thought,"Right, I may not get this done by the time I come to Melbourne for that course." So I had already decided that I was gonna have the airport time, the flight time, and- I was just gonna say, yeah.
• 15:46
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 15:46
  Natasha Rai: And time- It's good writing time, isn't it?
• 15:48
  Natasha Rai: Yes.
• 15:48
  Natasha Rai: On a plane.
• 15:49
  Natasha Rai: And then I thought even in the evenings, like, I just...
• 15:52
  Natasha Rai: Like, if I really wanted to see you, Maz, then I'll say,"I'll just do that," and then the other nights I'll just go straight back to my Airbnb and write.
• 15:58
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 15:59
  Natasha Rai: So I knew I had that option, but I guess I didn't need it.
• 16:03
  Natasha Rai: And that's what kept me going.
• 16:05
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 16:05
  Natasha Rai: And that's how I did it.
• 16:06
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 16:06
  Natasha Rai: It was hard.
• 16:06
  Natasha Rai: And I guess big, big motivation knowing that Emily Maguire has agreed to read your work as well.
• 16:10
  Natasha Rai: Well, she's sh- I really...
• 16:12
  Natasha Rai: I mean, obviously she's an amazing writer, but I just really trust her feedback, because she'll just tell me things that I can do something about.
• 16:22
  Natasha Rai: Like, sh- I love her questions, and it's exactly what, what I thought would happen.
• 16:26
  Natasha Rai: So I got back on Wednesday after I saw you, and then we met up on the Friday, and she broke it down for me.
• 16:33
  Natasha Rai: And since then I've been working on it, and I just finished in terms of her feedback.
• 16:39
  Natasha Rai: So now I've got one more week to read the whole thing and send it back, and that's my deadline.
• 16:45
  Tina Strachan: That's amazing.
• 16:46
  Natasha Rai: Oh, yes.
• 16:48
  Tina Strachan: So do you think- I, um, go on like the shorter timeframes, do you think a shorter timeframe, Madeleine, would be helpful- No for you?
• 16:55
  Tina Strachan: Or, but you also, Madeleine, you were saying, I don't know if we chatted about this last time, you felt like, um, you wanted to, even though you only had really the last third, was it, that you really- Mm had to make changes to, you really wanted to start from the beginning and kind of go the whole way through, which, which took time, didn't it?
• 17:13
  Tina Strachan: It did.
• 17:13
  Tina Strachan: 'Cause you wanted to change some beginning stuff.
• 17:15
  Tina Strachan: So yeah, yeah, at different stages and, of, of your edits, I s- I
• 17:19
  Madeleine Cleary: reckon I rewrote half the manuscript, actually- Yeah in the last couple of months.
• 17:23
  Madeleine Cleary: Um- Wow and I think I just, uh, the, I had to really work on the plot.
• 17:28
  Madeleine Cleary: Because it's a crime- Mm the threads, the threads were uneven, and I think the structure was a little bit uneven, and there was, uh, th- so I had to really think through, you know, that.
• 17:39
  Madeleine Cleary: So a lot of the time I think I've used in the last few months has been thinking.
• 17:43
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 17:44
  Madeleine Cleary: And even for me, like, a, a lot of, I was listening, who was it?
• 17:47
  Madeleine Cleary: Uh, I think it was, I went to Bet- see Benjamin Stevenson and Dervla McTiernan at Melbourne Writers Festival last weekend, and they said that, I think it was Dervla, that she always really likes to know what the ending is, and she has to think through what the ending is when she's writing.
• 18:02
  Madeleine Cleary: She's not necessarily a, a plotter, and that's quite different from a lot of crime writers.
• 18:07
  Madeleine Cleary: But I think that was my issue this time.
• 18:09
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, I think I didn't r- I, I had an idea or concept of what the ending could be, but I hadn't nailed it, and so it didn't, the manuscript didn't come together properly, I think, until I nailed the ending.
• 18:22
  Madeleine Cleary: Once I had the ending, then I could work backwards, so I'm really gonna hold that.
• 18:25
  Madeleine Cleary: Do you know, another really interesting thing they said, which I loved, and I wonder if it applies to literary and kids fiction as well.
• 18:35
  Madeleine Cleary: So Dervla, every time she write, on every page of her book, she poses a question to the reader, and that's how she keeps them turning the pages.
• 18:45
  Madeleine Cleary: As she goes through, she will answer some of those questions.
• 18:49
  Madeleine Cleary: Of course, there's the bigger question, which is the whodunit, you know, that comes at the end.
• 18:53
  Madeleine Cleary: But to keep a reader engaged and page-turning, there are little questions that flow through the manuscript every single page.
• 19:00
  Madeleine Cleary: And Benjamin Stevenson does something different.
• 19:02
  Madeleine Cleary: He, uh, did something similar, sorry.
• 19:04
  Madeleine Cleary: He has a clue on every single page.
• 19:09
  Madeleine Cleary: Ooh.
• 19:09
  Madeleine Cleary: Which I think is insane.
• 19:11
  Madeleine Cleary: Imagine, he has to think about 350 clues, and it's a very kind of structured process.
• 19:16
  Madeleine Cleary: Wow.
• 19:16
  Madeleine Cleary: So anyway, I thought that was really curious.
• 19:18
  Madeleine Cleary: Don't know if you both think of that.
• 19:21
  Tina Strachan: I love that.
• 19:22
  Tina Strachan: So, so when you say pose a question, is it- Mm actually a question, or she's just, like, sh- forming it so that, or writing it in a way that forms a question in your mind?
• 19:30
  Madeleine Cleary: No, it could be, you know, someone on the page, someone comes in who they see and they recognize So the question is- Okay who is that person?
• 19:39
  Madeleine Cleary: And then on the next page- Yeah, yeah there's an object or something that- Okay and it's like,"Oh, but what, what, how does that relate?" So it's, it's making the reader ask the questions, going,"Wait, so why is this...
• 19:49
  Madeleine Cleary: Is this important?" Mm.
• 19:51
  Madeleine Cleary: And, and then those, they get answered along the way.
• 19:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 19:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 19:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Does that make sense?
• 19:54
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 19:55
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 19:55
  Tina Strachan: Like, or like m- many, many tiny little cliffhangers along the way.
• 19:58
  Madeleine Cleary: Correct.
• 19:59
  Madeleine Cleary: That's what it is.
• 19:59
  Madeleine Cleary: Kind of like,"Oh.
• 20:00
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, hang on.
• 20:00
  Madeleine Cleary: Well, I want more." Yes.
• 20:02
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, I like that.
• 20:02
  Madeleine Cleary: And then, and then you have to reward the reader- Mm because you can't, in crime, you can't only give them, you can't give them the answer at the very end.
• 20:11
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, you have to reward them along the way with answers to these, like, minor things.
• 20:16
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 20:17
  Natasha Rai: That's a, that's such an interesting concept, because that sounds to me that you've got an eye in some way about for the, like, as the reader.
• 20:27
  Natasha Rai: Um, do you know what I mean by that?
• 20:29
  Natasha Rai: So I think I don't think that way, because I'm so immersed in the character and the journey that might be happening, that I'm not really thinking about the impact of, on the reader.
• 20:43
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes, yes.
• 20:44
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 20:44
  Madeleine Cleary: That's, that's true, Tash.
• 20:46
  Madeleine Cleary: No, I can understand that.
• 20:47
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 20:47
  Madeleine Cleary: Because you're, you're, you're in the mind of the...
• 20:50
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 20:50
  Madeleine Cleary: And I suppose Dervla said something about that too.
• 20:53
  Madeleine Cleary: She said that she's trying not to think too much about the reader, but writing the story that she wants to write.
• 21:01
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 21:01
  Madeleine Cleary: But I think you can't...
• 21:04
  Madeleine Cleary: I think when, perhaps when you are a commercial fiction writer, you can't help but not think of the reader.
• 21:08
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, I was gonna say, like, I
• 21:09
  Natasha Rai: think, yeah, it's a different, it's a slightly different awareness, isn't it, or curiosity or noticing that, that I just, I d- I don't think I ha- Well, I...
• 21:20
  Natasha Rai: No, I know I don't have, and I don't...
• 21:23
  Natasha Rai: I feel like if I tried to bring that to something I was working on, it would actually just trip me up- Mm and make me a bit- Feel too forced s- yeah, self-conscious in some way on the page, and that wouldn't work for me personally.
• 21:34
  Madeleine Cleary: But for kids, maybe it, it, it might relate for kids,'cause you're trying- Mm to keep them turning page to cue.
• 21:41
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 21:42
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, you absolutely just need a, yeah- The hooks a sh- b- hooks everywhere, yeah.
• 21:48
  Tina Strachan: And it is.
• 21:48
  Tina Strachan: It's, it's like little hooks.
• 21:49
  Tina Strachan: So does she go...
• 21:50
  Tina Strachan: Sorry, does she naturally do it as she goes through, or she goes back and, and purposefully, like, inserts them?
• 21:54
  Tina Strachan: Maybe.
• 21:55
  Tina Strachan: Or maybe she's just done it so often now- She may have it just kind of just happens.
• 21:59
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 22:00
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 22:00
  Madeleine Cleary: Uh, I like that.
• 22:01
  Madeleine Cleary: I, I act- actually made me think when I w- now when I'm reading back my work and just seeing, and- Mm I mean, uh, you, you do tend to do it as well.
• 22:09
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, I actually have seen these types of things.
• 22:11
  Madeleine Cleary: Exactly.
• 22:12
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 22:12
  Madeleine Cleary: And I think literary fiction, it might...
• 22:14
  Madeleine Cleary: There are, because there are massive hooks in that as well, like- Oh, yeah, yeah um,'cause, you know, especially when you jump into a really good book It starts with, you know, there's a conflict, there's- Mm a question, there's...
• 22:27
  Madeleine Cleary: And there's an overarching question, um, and there's something that you're exploring.
• 22:32
  Madeleine Cleary: I don't know.
• 22:33
  Madeleine Cleary: I just think, I thought it was such an interesting concept- It is to think about and honor.
• 22:36
  Madeleine Cleary: And it,
• 22:36
  Natasha Rai: and it might be worth thinking about more consciously, because what you're talking about really is structure, isn't it?
• 22:41
  Natasha Rai: It is structure, yeah.
• 22:42
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 22:42
  Madeleine Cleary: Entirely.
• 22:44
  Natasha Rai: And, yeah.
• 22:46
  Natasha Rai: But, you know, like the other thing I was, I've been thinking about as well,'cause especially around your question, Mads, about what helped me get there in terms of that tight deadline, and I ca- and I'll just f- it's been on my mind a lot.
• 22:59
  Natasha Rai: So what actually helps me as well is reading.
• 23:03
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 23:03
  Natasha Rai: So, uh, for me pa- I, I've heard so many writers now saying that they can't read when they're writing something or working intensively on, on their manuscripts.
• 23:14
  Natasha Rai: But for me, reading is so useful and helpful because, A, it kind of, it doesn't take me out of my work, but it kind of does something.
• 23:24
  Natasha Rai: I don't know what it does.
• 23:25
  Natasha Rai: I'm still trying to formulate this, so I'm not gonna like take up airtime f- figuring it out in real time.
• 23:30
  Natasha Rai: But what I do know is it helps me when I read something that is beautiful or touches me in some way,'cause then I'm like,"That, that's what I wanna do in my work." So obviously not copying what this person's done, but the impact of it, and then going,"Well, how, how, how did they do it?
• 23:50
  Natasha Rai: How, how would I be able to do that with what I'm working on?" I find that really helpful and really useful, and as a, almost like a, not a goal, but like a, I don't know.
• 24:01
  Natasha Rai: What's the thing where you're...
• 24:02
  Natasha Rai: An aspiration.
• 24:03
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 24:04
  Natasha Rai: Some- yeah, something to aspire to.
• 24:05
  Natasha Rai: I
• 24:05
  Madeleine Cleary: agree.
• 24:06
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 24:06
  Madeleine Cleary: I, I agree.
• 24:06
  Madeleine Cleary: I, I've never had any issues with reading while writing new works.
• 24:11
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 24:12
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, I maybe tend to avoid historical fiction perhaps though as a genre, particularly where, you know, there might be a crime or it's set in a similar era, just because I don't want that to feed into my work.
• 24:27
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 24:27
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, I want mine to be completely original.
• 24:30
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, but, but that's okay,'cause I can read anything and, and I think particularly when you're reading really clean writing, that tends to have an impact for me- Mm when I'm writing.
• 24:39
  Madeleine Cleary: I make my writing a bit cleaner.
• 24:42
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 24:42
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and you can see the influence of it, particularly if you're writing something over a longer period of time, like if you're writing something over a year.
• 24:49
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 24:50
  Madeleine Cleary: I can see the influences of different things coming through in your writing style.
• 24:54
  Madeleine Cleary: I don't know if you've ever noticed that.
• 24:55
  Madeleine Cleary: That ha- happened for me when I was writing The Butterfly Women,'cause it took me a year to write that manuscript, and I noticed the points where I was reading things that, yeah, it really influenced it, which is cool.
• 25:04
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 25:05
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 25:05
  Madeleine Cleary: And it's not copying.
• 25:07
  Natasha Rai: It's not.
• 25:07
  Natasha Rai: It's- No, because also I was thinking about that, a concept of copying.
• 25:11
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 25:11
  Natasha Rai: Like, how can you though?
• 25:12
  Natasha Rai: That's right.
• 25:12
  Natasha Rai: Because you- you're reading someone who's come with a distinct voice and a distinct character, so- Unless you're writing something really, really similar, it, I don't see how you could copy
• 25:25
  Madeleine Cleary: There is a, a book out at the moment which I have not read, and it is set in Melbourne 19th century a- about spiritualism and seances
• 25:33
  Tina Strachan: Ah.
• 25:33
  Madeleine Cleary: I have not read that
• 25:34
  Tina Strachan: book.
• 25:35
  Madeleine Cleary: That to me, I will read that book after I've finished with the manuscript that I'm writing on Mm-hmm And then I will go and read it and enjoy it probably.
• 25:42
  Madeleine Cleary: But I just, you know, that's too close- Mm-hmm if you know what I mean.
• 25:45
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 25:45
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 25:45
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah,
• 25:46
  Tina Strachan: no, that makes sense.
• 25:47
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, there was some books that came out while I was writing Wild Zoo that were, like, had a lot of zoo influence in it, and I was like,"I'm not going anywhere near that." Yeah.
• 25:54
  Tina Strachan: As interested as I am to read them, I just, yeah, just didn't want to.
• 25:59
  Tina Strachan: And, uh, kind of luckily because there was one, you know, small inclusion in one of my...
• 26:05
  Tina Strachan: But I mean, you know, there's only so much...
• 26:07
  Tina Strachan: You will probably find, Madeleine, when you read that spiritual book later, there probably is l- some topics- Yeah maybe that you- Yeah cross over with, and that will be fine because there's only, you know, X amount of, I guess, sort of major topics that you have to include when you're talking, you know, spiritual and, or particular themes and, for me, being, you know, zoos and wild animals.
• 26:25
  Tina Strachan: And yeah, these books, um, these other books that came out while I was writing Wild Zoo, when I looked at them afterwards, I was like,"Oh, there was a few little kind of, um, inclusions," I guess, that I had included in mine as well, and I just thought,"Thank goodness," because number one, I, I would have, um...
• 26:44
  Tina Strachan: Well, if I thought it worked for the story, which it did when I was writing it, then what would I have done?
• 26:49
  Tina Strachan: I would have had to go back.
• 26:51
  Tina Strachan: If I'd already written it, I would've, I would've gone back and changed it.
• 26:53
  Tina Strachan: I would've taken it out'cause I'd be like,"Oh, I don't want anyone to think that I've, you know, copied or anything like that." But it works so well in there, and I wanna keep it in, and, you know, I don't know if it...
• 27:02
  Tina Strachan: You know, I never ended up reading this particular part.
• 27:04
  Tina Strachan: I just know of it, that it was in there, and I was in this other book, and I just thought,"Well..." I mean, it could be comp- it's very likely completely different, but I just, yeah, I would've, that would've, part of the, my book would've felt really forced because I would've had to go in and really pull it out and find something else to put in and, and when that was the, the thing that just worked naturally for my story.
• 27:25
  Tina Strachan: Um, yeah, so I, I completely understand that it's a bit too close to home, isn't it?
• 27:30
  Tina Strachan: But I agree with both of you in the, um, reading and, like, what you were saying, Madeleine, s- especially really clean books and writing, and yeah, I, I almost- reach for, um...
• 27:44
  Tina Strachan: So if I'm reading a book while I'm writing and it's not the best ever, I will, I will actually put that away for a bit- Mm-hmm and try and find one, because I feel like it's kind of infiltrating you- Yes isn't it?
• 27:57
  Tina Strachan: Yeah Subconsciously, and, um, whether it's good or bad, um, or styles.
• 28:04
  Tina Strachan: Um, but yeah, if it's clean and it's, and it's, and it's smooth, and it's hugely enjoyable to read, really well done, I think it just...
• 28:12
  Tina Strachan: And I kind of in a way want it to infiltrate me and my own writing.
• 28:15
  Tina Strachan: It kind of feels like a little bit of practice, a little bit of exercise and, you know, sort of, you know, creating- Mm a bit of a writing practice, you know.
• 28:24
  Tina Strachan: And did you say aspiration, Tash?
• 28:25
  Tina Strachan: Did you say- Yeah, yeah.
• 28:26
  Tina Strachan: Yeah like, yeah, it, it feels like, okay, this is where I wanna take my writing to.
• 28:29
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, it's something.
• 28:30
  Tina Strachan: And I think it's, uh, yeah, it's a, I think it's a real thing, so.
• 28:33
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, but I, I understand if people can't read while they're writing for whatever reason,
• 28:37
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, just something that I've been really th- pondering, I guess, the last few weeks.
• 28:42
  Natasha Rai: So what are you two excited about?
• 28:44
  Natasha Rai: What's coming up that's exciting for you or you're looking forward to?
• 28:47
  Madeleine Cleary: Handing in the manuscript, I suppose, to my publisher.
• 28:50
  Madeleine Cleary: That will be good.
• 28:51
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, oh, I am doing a workshop next Friday at my local library on how to pitch to a publisher, which will be really fun.
• 28:59
  Tina Strachan: Oh.
• 28:59
  Tina Strachan: Um, so
• 28:59
  Madeleine Cleary: I did one earlier, like, uh, probably last year actually, on 101 for the Australian publishing industry, and so this is like the continuation of that.
• 29:08
  Madeleine Cleary: So it's,"Okay-" Oh, fantastic so you've got the manuscript.
• 29:10
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 29:11
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 29:11
  Madeleine Cleary: How do you...
• 29:11
  Madeleine Cleary: What, what next?
• 29:12
  Madeleine Cleary: What do you do?
• 29:13
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 29:13
  Madeleine Cleary: I might get them to do a bit of like a, this X meets Y.
• 29:17
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, get them to start thinking out in that terms.
• 29:18
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 29:18
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 29:19
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, develop their elevator pitch.
• 29:21
  Madeleine Cleary: Comp titles.
• 29:21
  Madeleine Cleary: Think of their comp titles.
• 29:22
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm-hmm.
• 29:23
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, so yeah, that'll be really, really fun.
• 29:25
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, I'm looking forward to that.
• 29:26
  Madeleine Cleary: What about you both?
• 29:27
  Madeleine Cleary: Tina?
• 29:27
  Madeleine Cleary: Um,
• 29:28
  Tina Strachan: I am just on...
• 29:31
  Tina Strachan: I'll, I'll just come back to that point, but yeah, I, I'm excited because, um, here on the Gold Coast, we have, you know, we're, we're a good hour or so away from Brisbane, which doesn't sound like a lot, but we But it is quite hard to get up there, and we've got train issues and stuff at the moment.
• 29:45
  Tina Strachan: And, um, it's, there's quite a few kid lit writers here on the Gold Coast, but we don't, we don't really have any v- venues for, like, really good launches and things down here, so it's hard to get everybody together.
• 29:57
  Tina Strachan: So, um, thank goodness for, I mentioned Liv Lorkin earlier.
• 30:01
  Tina Strachan: Um, she's an incredible author and illustrator, and, um, she, thank goodness, has been the one to take on creating a Gold Coast kid lit group.
• 30:11
  Tina Strachan: So if anyone is listening and they're from the Gold Coast and they're an author and an illustrator, um, check it out.
• 30:16
  Tina Strachan: I think you can find the group on, um, Instagram now.
• 30:19
  Tina Strachan: And, um, yeah, we finally had our first catch-up yesterday, and so we're, we're planning on many more, and many, and many more things to come.
• 30:25
  Tina Strachan: But it's, it's so nice to just finally get everybody together.
• 30:28
  Tina Strachan: We all sort of kind of n- know of, you know, each other, but just getting everybody together has been, uh, quite difficult, so that's been really lovely.
• 30:36
  Tina Strachan: Um, so looking forward to them, uh, some more of them.
• 30:40
  Tina Strachan: But, uh, when we did catch up, someone was mentioning that, um, when you were talking about X meets Y, Madeleine, um, sort of comp titles as well, it's a s- it's a similar thing, isn't it?
• 30:50
  Tina Strachan: Uh, apparently they've been told recently, um, that they need three comp titles.
• 30:58
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 30:58
  Tina Strachan: It's like a number, like three comp titles, uh, when they're pitching.
• 31:02
  Tina Strachan: So I don't know if you've heard of that.
• 31:04
  Tina Strachan: Um, like I just, I don't know why.
• 31:05
  Tina Strachan: No.
• 31:06
  Tina Strachan: I mean, sometimes submissions
• 31:07
  Madeleine Cleary: I think a- ask for three.
• 31:08
  Madeleine Cleary: There are some, some publishers that will ask that.
• 31:11
  Madeleine Cleary: They actually ask for three?
• 31:12
  Madeleine Cleary: Interesting.
• 31:13
  Madeleine Cleary: But I like, I like u- using you as an example, Tina, um, for the X meets Y thing.
• 31:19
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, I don't think you need to...
• 31:20
  Madeleine Cleary: It hasn't, doesn't have to be a book.
• 31:22
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 31:22
  Tina Strachan: No, agreed.
• 31:22
  Tina Strachan: And that's what I'm
• 31:23
  Madeleine Cleary: gonna e- emphasize, like I like the fact that with, when you were promoting Wild Azura, it's like, you know- Mm it's Bindi, Bindi Irwin- Mm
• 31:29
  Tina Strachan: you know,
• 31:30
  Madeleine Cleary: as a concept rather- Yeah than necessarily it...
• 31:32
  Madeleine Cleary: And that,'cause it, whatever helps position a publisher be able to position that book and understand what it is and who it suits, I think.
• 31:40
  Madeleine Cleary: Yes.
• 31:41
  Tina Strachan: Agree.
• 31:41
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 31:41
  Tina Strachan: It doesn't need to be a title.
• 31:42
  Tina Strachan: And, um, also Amy Kofman, remember, had really- Yes great, um, advice on that.
• 31:47
  Tina Strachan: And, um, if anyone wants, is listening and wants some more advice, uh, go back and listen to Amy's episode that we did.
• 31:53
  Tina Strachan: Um.
• 31:53
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, hers was great.
• 31:54
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh.
• 31:54
  Madeleine Cleary: Amazing.
• 31:55
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 31:55
  Tina Strachan: Or was it Die Hard meets Home Alone meets, um- Um The Martian?
• 31:59
  Tina Strachan: The Martian.
• 32:00
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 32:01
  Madeleine Cleary: Just, and
• 32:01
  Tina Strachan: something else in there as well.
• 32:02
  Tina Strachan: It was just, uh, yeah, just, just lots of fun.
• 32:06
  Tina Strachan: And all of that, no matter how you do it, if it's a movie, if it's a person, if it's a vibe, um, even, you know, I, it's, it's about creating a picture.
• 32:14
  Tina Strachan: But, you know, if a publisher asks for three comp titles, give them three comp titles.
• 32:18
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 32:18
  Tina Strachan: Yes, yes.
• 32:18
  Tina Strachan: Like, don't, uh, just follow the instructions is,
• 32:20
  Natasha Rai: yeah, um, amazing.
• 32:21
  Natasha Rai: And it's, it's, and it's interesting that you use that, um, term, Tina, vibe, because I literally had to do this for my publisher.
• 32:27
  Natasha Rai: They had a sales c- they had, had, I think it's done now, but they had a sales conference.
• 32:32
  Natasha Rai: And for book two, which is coming out next year, they asked me to put together some stuff for a vibe sheet, which was- Ooh the first time I've ever heard of one.
• 32:40
  Natasha Rai: A vibe sheet?
• 32:40
  Natasha Rai: But basically...
• 32:41
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 32:42
  Natasha Rai: So it was, they asked me to think about other books, authors, actors, movies- Ooh TV shows, places a drink that you might, you know, have while you're reading the book Is it?
• 32:56
  Natasha Rai: So, uh, or songs.
• 32:57
  Natasha Rai: So it's all about what's the vibe?
• 32:59
  Natasha Rai: Ooh, I love that.
• 32:59
  Natasha Rai: Yeah, what's the vibe- Ooh, I'm gonna write that down of this book?
• 33:01
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 33:02
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 33:02
  Natasha Rai: Like- That's great for a workshop, I think.
• 33:04
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 33:04
  Natasha Rai: And I was like, ooh...
• 33:05
  Natasha Rai: At first I was like,"Oh, no.
• 33:07
  Natasha Rai: N- no, I can't do it." And then I kinda got into it and I was having lots of fun.
• 33:11
  Natasha Rai: Oh, yeah.
• 33:11
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 33:12
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 33:12
  Natasha Rai: I
• 33:12
  Tina Strachan: love that.
• 33:13
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 33:13
  Natasha Rai: Yeah,
• 33:14
  Tina Strachan: cause I create...
• 33:14
  Tina Strachan: I sometimes create, um, playlists for when I'm writing.
• 33:17
  Tina Strachan: Oh, yes.
• 33:17
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:18
  Tina Strachan: Get me in the mood.
• 33:19
  Tina Strachan: Um, and again, and going back to Amie Kaufman, she also said she sometimes, um, creates like a bit of a Canva page of, um, just things a- Mm and, and that would be a vibe sheet.
• 33:33
  Tina Strachan: Yes, exactly.
• 33:34
  Tina Strachan: That's probably exactly what it is.
• 33:34
  Tina Strachan: Exactly, yes.
• 33:35
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, Canva with a vibe sheet.
• 33:36
  Tina Strachan: It's a little bit of this, a little bit of that.
• 33:37
  Tina Strachan: It's like this song, and it, it feels like eating strawberry ice cream, and like- Exactly yeah.
• 33:42
  Natasha Rai: Like strolling on a beach in Goa or something like that, yeah.
• 33:45
  Natasha Rai: Okay, yes.
• 33:46
  Natasha Rai: I love a vibe sheet.
• 33:47
  Natasha Rai: That sounds fantastic.
• 33:47
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 33:48
  Madeleine Cleary: All right.
• 33:48
  Madeleine Cleary: Well, I'm gonna use that for my workshop next week, I think, Tash.
• 33:52
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 33:52
  Tina Strachan: Get
• 33:52
  Madeleine Cleary: everyone to create a vibe sheet.
• 33:54
  Madeleine Cleary: That's so cool.
• 33:55
  Natasha Rai: It is.
• 33:56
  Natasha Rai: It really is.
• 33:56
  Natasha Rai: Mm.
• 33:57
  Natasha Rai: Mm-hmm.
• 33:57
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 33:58
  Madeleine Cleary: Love it.
• 33:58
  Tina Strachan: Um, can I just...
• 33:59
  Tina Strachan: Now, I don't think, you know what, that we have officially spoken about release dates of, uh, your books, ladies.
• 34:07
  Madeleine Cleary: I don't think I have one yet.
• 34:08
  Madeleine Cleary: You
• 34:08
  Tina Strachan: don't have one?
• 34:09
  Tina Strachan: I don't even have
• 34:09
  Madeleine Cleary: a title.
• 34:11
  Tina Strachan: Well, when...
• 34:12
  Tina Strachan: But okay, well, until then, what, when can we expect something from you, Mads?
• 34:16
  Tina Strachan: A roundabout, do you have a roundabout release time?
• 34:18
  Tina Strachan: It's very exciting.
• 34:19
  Tina Strachan: I don't.
• 34:20
  Tina Strachan: Like, yeah.
• 34:21
  Tina Strachan: Oh, you don't?
• 34:21
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 34:21
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm not sure.
• 34:22
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm not sure.
• 34:23
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, I can't say.
• 34:24
  Madeleine Cleary: 2027?
• 34:24
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, it's next year.
• 34:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah, okay.
• 34:26
  Madeleine Cleary: It'll be, uh, first half next year.
• 34:27
  Natasha Rai: Yeah,
• 34:28
  Madeleine Cleary: same as you, Tash?
• 34:28
  Madeleine Cleary: But at the moment nothing's, nothing's locked in, so...
• 34:30
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, yeah.
• 34:31
  Natasha Rai: So I'm pretty sure March is locked in for me.
• 34:34
  Tina Strachan: Ooh.
• 34:35
  Natasha Rai: Um, I think I have a title, but I'm not sure I'm allowed to say it yet.
• 34:39
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 34:39
  Tina Strachan: No, that's all right.
• 34:39
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 34:40
  Tina Strachan: I just thought we hadn't even actually officially mentioned that, so it's very exciting.
• 34:44
  Tina Strachan: Big year next year.
• 34:46
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, it is.
• 34:47
  Madeleine Cleary: 2027, yeah.
• 34:47
  Madeleine Cleary: Um- I keep forgetting it's 2027 and calling it 2025.
• 34:51
  Madeleine Cleary: Yeah.
• 34:52
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm like, wait, no, this
• 34:53
  Tina Strachan: is 2026.
• 34:54
  Tina Strachan: So yeah.
• 34:55
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 34:56
  Tina Strachan: But Madeleine, you've also had some very exciting news in the last few days though, haven't you?
• 35:00
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh, really?
• 35:01
  Madeleine Cleary: What's that?
• 35:02
  Tina Strachan: Oh, I mean, I mean, I don't know about you, but if I got in the Zomix top 101- Oh, I would- I'd just forget about it, too.
• 35:08
  Madeleine Cleary: Uh, she just takes it
• 35:10
  Tina Strachan: all in her
• 35:11
  Madeleine Cleary: stride.
• 35:11
  Madeleine Cleary: Well, no.
• 35:12
  Madeleine Cleary: No, I guess, um, the reason why I, I'm not aloof about it, I promise.
• 35:15
  Madeleine Cleary: It's only'cause I f- found out six weeks ago or more.
• 35:19
  Madeleine Cleary: So for me- Yeah the excitement happened, like, a while ago.
• 35:23
  Madeleine Cleary: And then it's come out this week.
• 35:24
  Madeleine Cleary: But it was super, super, super cool to go into the bookshop and see it.
• 35:28
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, it, it really hit.
• 35:29
  Madeleine Cleary: um, when I went in and saw it on the wall.
• 35:32
  Madeleine Cleary: Um, and so yeah, people have been so supportive.
• 35:34
  Madeleine Cleary: Dymocks in particular have been really, really supportive and lovely.
• 35:37
  Madeleine Cleary: So yeah, it, I mean, like, not to minimize, but it really did help that, um, when you went to the Dymocks 101 voting form, like, it was in the top row, so people could just select it.
• 35:48
  Madeleine Cleary: Oh.
• 35:48
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, you didn't have to, like, search for it.
• 35:50
  Madeleine Cleary: So yeah, um, that was also helpful.
• 35:53
  Madeleine Cleary: But, you know, people actually did have to pick it, so
• 35:56
  Tina Strachan: That's right, yeah.
• 35:57
  Tina Strachan: They're not gonna vote for it if they did not think so.
• 35:58
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 35:59
  Madeleine Cleary: Exactly.
• 36:00
  Madeleine Cleary: So it's cool.
• 36:00
  Madeleine Cleary: And, um, for those who, yeah, don't know, the Dymocks Top 101, um, it's like the voted by book lovers, and it means that it'll be in the front of stores for the next year, which is really good for the longevity of books.
• 36:12
  Madeleine Cleary: Mm.
• 36:13
  Madeleine Cleary: Because as you both know, books t- don't tend to have much longevity these days- Mm with all the books coming out.
• 36:20
  Madeleine Cleary: So yeah, I'm really, really thrilled.
• 36:23
  Madeleine Cleary: It's very exciting.
• 36:24
  Madeleine Cleary: It is very
• 36:24
  Natasha Rai: exciting.
• 36:25
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 36:25
  Natasha Rai: Congratulations.
• 36:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Thank you.
• 36:26
  Madeleine Cleary: But do you know it's funny,'cause I went out yesterday with my parents, and, um, they n- they don't go over the top, Mum and Dad, with celebrations and stuff with me.
• 36:34
  Madeleine Cleary: Like, you know, I t- say and they're like,"Oh, that's good." Um, and Dad said,"Oh, I..." M- both Mum and Dad said,"Oh, wish you'd been number 33, though,'cause that's Dad's lucky number." Oh,
• 36:47
  Tina Strachan: sorry
• 36:47
  Madeleine Cleary: about that.
• 36:48
  Madeleine Cleary: Dad.
• 36:51
  Madeleine Cleary: So, and damn it, that's what they said.
• 36:53
  Madeleine Cleary: I was like,"Okay." I'm sure Mum's listening to this now.
• 36:59
  Natasha Rai: I'm
• 36:59
  Tina Strachan: terrified.
• 37:01
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 37:03
  Tina Strachan: Anyway.
• 37:03
  Tina Strachan: That's very exciting.
• 37:04
  Tina Strachan: Thanks.
• 37:04
  Natasha Rai: It is very exciting.
• 37:06
  Natasha Rai: Um, well, thank you both for a great catch-up.
• 37:09
  Natasha Rai: Um, I hope you have a good month ahead.
• 37:11
  Natasha Rai: Uh, good luck with your submission, or hope it goes well, Mads.
• 37:14
  Natasha Rai: Thank you.
• 37:15
  Natasha Rai: Will it be in by the time we talk again?
• 37:17
  Natasha Rai: Oh, yes.
• 37:18
  Natasha Rai: Yeah.
• 37:18
  Natasha Rai: It better be.
• 37:18
  Natasha Rai: It'll
• 37:20
  Madeleine Cleary: be gone.
• 37:22
  Madeleine Cleary: And good luck to you, too, next week.
• 37:23
  Madeleine Cleary: Thank
• 37:23
  Natasha Rai: you.
• 37:24
  Natasha Rai: Yes, thank you.
• 37:25
  Natasha Rai: All right, see you both soon.
• 37:27
  Natasha Rai: Bye.
• 37:27
  Madeleine Cleary: Bye.
• 37:33
  Speaker 5: Thank you for listening to another episode of The Book Deal Podcast.
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: If you are enjoying the pod, we'd really appreciate you following or sharing the show in your podcast directory, checking us out on Instagram and Facebook, or supporting us through our Patreon community at patreon.com/thebookdealpodcast