Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / No Matter How Well You Do Something Another Chef Thinks You're Wrong Ep. 77

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No Matter How Well You Do Something Another Chef Thinks You're Wrong Ep. 77 · Chef's PSA Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello chefs, This is Chef's PSA Podcast.
• 0:02
  I'm your host, Andre Natera. On today's episode we're going
• 0:04
  to get into, no matter how well you make something, there's
• 0:06
  another chef out there that thinks you're wrong.
• 0:08
  Stay tuned. This episode of Chef's PSA is
• 0:23
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  J&R will stand with you. They've always stood with me.
• 1:08
  Go to jrmanufacturing.com/vault. So before we get into it, let's
• 1:12
  give you a brief update. I'm continuing to write this
• 1:14
  book. Bad cooks everywhere.
• 1:17
  I am unsure that it'll be out before Christmas.
• 1:19
  Most likely it'll be out just after Christmas.
• 1:22
  And for sure in the early part of January.
• 1:25
  It's coming together. Formatting is done, images are
• 1:28
  in, unless I change some things a little bit, but it still needs
• 1:32
  some refinement on the story. So I'm working on that.
• 1:34
  But it's coming together. It will be out soon.
• 1:36
  I know a lot of you have been asking about it, so there's your
• 1:39
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  If you want to get some of my books, you can go to
• 2:00
  chefspsa.com/books or Chefs psa.com and you got all the
• 2:04
  books that I've already written. Culinary Leadership,
• 2:06
  Fundamentals, Line Cook Survival Manual, Bad Sue, Good Chef,
• 2:11
  Kitchen, Art of War, and How Not To Be the Biggest Idiot in the
• 2:14
  Kitchen, as well as some free ebooks which include 100 basic
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  recipes. The 100 basic recipe ebook
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  It's free. You can download it.
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  It's an ebook. There's also a critical path on
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  opening up a restaurant, so if you plan on opening up a
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  restaurant, you should at least get that so you know where to
• 2:41
  start. A guide to food Cost mastery.
• 2:44
  So if you're in an executive chef position or a cook that's
• 2:47
  looking to understand food cost more and no one's teaching you,
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  well, that's why I'm here for it's free.
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  It's a good resource for you, as well as a free culinary
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  dictionary so you can learn all the slang, all the colloquial
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  terms that we use in the kitchen.
• 3:01
  Things that you may or may not know, including some things that
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  I've put in there like a Halloween ninja or kitchen
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  karate. Go check all those out.
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  Chef's psa.com is where you can find out more, as well as some
• 3:11
  merch, including this hat, this chef's PSAT shirt.
• 3:15
  Everything is going to be in the show notes on whatever platform
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  you're listening on, so link to everything as well as go.
• 3:21
  Follow me on all social media channels.
• 3:23
  I'm now on Facebook, X TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Spotify,
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  Apple Music, everywhere. I'm everywhere.
• 3:31
  Literally, figuratively. Anyway, we digress.
• 3:35
  I put up a poll the other day on Instagram and I talked a little
• 3:39
  bit about this on last week's episode about this four day work
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  model that a lot of restaurants are going to and I found the
• 3:45
  results interesting so I'm going to share them with you.
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  Of the people that I pulled, if they work in a four day a week
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  kitchen, only 18% say they do work in that type of
• 3:54
  environment. So that's 18% of people that are
• 3:57
  following me on on Chef's PSA Instagram say that they work in
• 4:00
  a four day week kitchen. Now the thing that I need to
• 4:03
  understand, is it a 32 hour job, so 4/8 hour shifts or is it a 40
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  hour job for 10 hour shifts or 412 hour shifts?
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  And that part is a little bit unclear.
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  So some of the chef friends that I've spoken to said they run 4/8
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  hour shifts and other friends I've talked to says it's 410
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  hour shifts. Well, according to the poll, of
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  those that did, 59% said it was a 40 hour a week job and only 6%
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  said they were at 32 hours a week with the rest being on a
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  flexible schedule, meaning they could get more hours if they
• 4:35
  want them, which is interesting. The next question is would you
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  want to work in a four day a week type kitchen schedule?
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  Interesting, 70% of the people that responded said yes, 70% of
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  the people want to be in that type of kitchen.
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  And when I asked for the people that do work in that type of
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  kitchen, are you happier, Do you like your schedule more?
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  70% of them said yes, 22% of them said no difference.
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  And this is assuming that everyone that's answering is
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  truly in that type of kitchen or they're just trying to skew the
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  numbers. Nonetheless, I found the results
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  interesting and I think it's something that chefs and
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  restaurants need to be thinking about.
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  I don't want to do a full podcast on it yet because I
• 5:14
  don't understand it well enough initially.
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  I see some challenges with it and that is how do you make the
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  schedule work? So you have to have a little bit
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  more staff on hand to cover the amount of shifts that are
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  needed. If you're open seven days a
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  week, you need 7 shifts per service, assuming you're doing
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  just one service. But are you doing breakfast,
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  lunch, and dinner? Is there multiple services?
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  Do you have prep positions? So you got to look at the amount
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  of shifts that you need, and then you got to divide that by
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  the number of shifts per person, and that'll give you the amount
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  of people that you need. So most likely you're going to
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  need, I mean not even Most likely you're going to need more
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  people on your team to be able to pull off the four day work
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  week. Now if you're in a place that's
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  offering benefits, I could see why a lot of people might be
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  reluctant to do that because you have what's called FT ES full
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  time employees and a lot of companies that have FT ES full
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  time employees, there's a certain amount of money that
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  goes into paying for every FTE. So that might be benefits,
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  insurance, whatever benefits are added, they have to cover that
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  for having the additional staff. So the question is does the
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  company want to cover that? That's up to them.
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  But on the flip side, you end up with employees that are happier.
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  So the chefs that I've spoken to said it increases retention.
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  So they've had much less turnover since they've gone to
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  the four day work week. And for those people that want
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  to make more money, because that's the whole thing is like
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  if you're only working 32 hours, well then you might need to
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  supplement it with another job. I don't know, cost of living is
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  going up. There's inflation.
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  So do you need now two jobs at 32 hours a week?
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  Does it really solve anything? I don't know, but if you're in a
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  position where you're getting 40 hours at four days a week, to me
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  that seems like the sweet spot. So from a chef, manager, owner
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  perspective, you would want to move to that model because you
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  will decrease turnover, you'll increase retention, you'll
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  increase employee morale, you'll have happier cooks, happy cooks,
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  make good food, so that seems like a good positive.
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  On the opposite side is what happens when the real world
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  kicks in and you don't have enough bodies to execute that.
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  Do you go from a four day work week to now everyone's back on 6
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  and then now people are disgruntled because you took
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  something away from them and then you run the risk of having
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  a mass exodus of people quitting and wanting to leave to go work
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  at other places. I was messaging with someone in
• 7:34
  the DMS and they were saying that they were working in a
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  place that did this, but the problem that they had is there
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  just wasn't enough cooks. They're talking about a massive
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  cook shortage. So as difficult as it is right
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  now to staff your kitchen, if you need even more bodies to go
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  to the four day work week, it makes it that much more
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  difficult. It's a lot of food for thought.
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  I'm not sure what the right answer is.
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  I'm going to continue the conversation with chef friends
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  that I have just to understand this better and maybe I will do
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  a full podcast on it. But anyway, that's not what
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  today's top today's topic is. No matter how well you do
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  something, another chef thinks you're wrong.
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  So I have a post that I've I've put that up as a post on Chef's
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  PSA. No matter how well you do
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  something, another chef thinks you're wrong.
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  And the reason I do that is because you could make something
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  perfectly and another chef is going to come to you and say,
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  well, I would do it this way. They have their own opinions on
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  how they would do it. They think you're doing it wrong
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  because their chef showed them, their chef, chef showed them
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  culinary school showed them, their last job showed them.
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  They saw something on social media.
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  Someone told them something different.
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  They read a book. There's an infinite number of
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  reasons why they think you're wrong.
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  Even though you make something extremely well and it might work
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  extremely well in your restaurant, in your environment
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  for your customers, people tell you it's great.
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  But there's this one person that's always been a hater in
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  the background. The reason I wanted to do this
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  podcast specifically on this is I saw an Instagram video the
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  other day, a reel, and there was this great chef, one Michelin
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  star chef, and he was doing a demo.
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  He's cooking fish, had brown butter and capers and lemon
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  segments, and it looked beautiful.
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  It was a beautiful cook on the fish.
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  He did it his way, the way that works in his restaurant.
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  He's showing an audience how to do it.
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  And I went and I said looks beautiful, chef.
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  I love seeing the classics. And then I got lost in the
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  comments and I couldn't believe how many chefs and cooks were
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  commenting how he was frying the fish incorrectly, How he used a
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  cake tester and he should use a thermometer.
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  How he should be ashamed of the way he was cooking the fish, how
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  that wasn't a true emulsification on the sauce, and
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  just people just telling him how he's wrong.
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  Now, the reason it bothered me so much is because this chef,
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  he's clearly a good chef. He's got one Michelin star.
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  He knows what the fuck he's doing.
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  Most of the people that are commenting to him are not even
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  on his level, but have opinions. They're they aren't.
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  They aren't fit to shine this man's shoes, yet they want to
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  tell him how he can't cook. I would say show me your
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  Michelin star. Oh, oh, you don't have one.
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  OK, well then maybe I know what the hell I'm doing right.
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  I just find it kind of disrespectful how all these
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  people want to attack someone who's trying to demonstrate
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  skill, teach people right. And he even responded to the
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  comment about the cake tester. He said I do know how to tell if
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  fish is done without the cake tester, but I'm showing this
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  technique for the people that don't know, which is obviously
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  very accurate. And a lot of people often ask me
• 10:24
  why I don't do cooking videos. And I'll explain this right now
• 10:28
  #1 because Chef's PSA is a podcast, right?
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  So that that's why I don't do cooking videos.
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  I don't have a studio set up to do cooking videos.
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  I'm not in a professional kitchen anymore, so I don't have
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  access to kitchen equipment to do this.
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  Not only that, but the amount of resources that it takes to film
• 10:43
  these cooking videos when you're not in a kitchen, it's a lot.
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  You need cameras, you need lighting, you need to buy the
• 10:49
  food, you need to wash the dishes.
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  All this effort goes into that cooking video.
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  And then you have to deal with people saying, oh, you used a
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  cake tester. That's not a true
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  emulsification. Why?
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  So why am I going to go through the trouble of doing this for
• 11:01
  someone who's not going to appreciate it?
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  It's like there's a lot of chefs out there that do it and do it
• 11:06
  well, and that's their thing. It's not my thing.
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  I I really don't see the upside on the investment of doing these
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  cooking videos. I mean, I'm I I should probably
• 11:15
  correct myself. I will do them on occasion, but
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  it's not what I do. If I'm in a kitchen and the time
• 11:22
  is right and the resources there, I'll do it.
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  But I'm not going to. I'm not I'm not going to do that
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  every day. It's not what I do.
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  But reading those comments reminded me that every chef out
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  there is opinionated about what they do.
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  You cut fish one way, they're going to tell you're wrong
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  because they learned it a different way.
• 11:39
  You make a sauce a certain way, they're going to tell you you're
• 11:41
  wrong because they make it another way.
• 11:43
  Someone asked me on my Q&A the other day, how do you make your
• 11:47
  veal stock? Now I was reluctant to answer,
• 11:49
  and the reason was because I know no matter what I say,
• 11:52
  someone's going to tell me how they make theirs and how I'm
• 11:54
  wrong. And honestly, I I don't care.
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  They weren't asking you. They were asking me how I make
• 11:59
  mine and how I make mine. Now I'm going to.
• 12:03
  Now I'm going to tell you is I use a mixture of veal bones and
• 12:07
  beef bones and the reason I would use a mixture.
• 12:09
  So again, executive chef trying to make good financial
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  decisions, the veal bones are more expensive than the beef
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  bones, so I would cut the cost down by incorporating a little
• 12:17
  bit of beef bones. With the veal bones.
• 12:19
  I'd also put oxtail because I like the flavor of the oxtail.
• 12:23
  Sometimes I would put chicken feet due to the amount of
• 12:26
  collagen that they have. My Maripois isn't always the
• 12:29
  standard classic ratio of 50% onion, 25% carrot, 25% celery.
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  I sometimes would go a little bit higher on the celery and a
• 12:38
  little less on the carrot because I don't like the
• 12:41
  sweetness all always that the carrot brings and I like the
• 12:43
  flavor of celery, so that's just me.
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  Now, there's someone watching saying, you know, I don't do my
• 12:49
  mirepoix like that. They're going to say it's always
• 12:50
  502525, or they're going to say I only do onions, or they're
• 12:54
  going to say, you know, you got to put leeks and turnips or
• 12:57
  whatever, right? And that's fine.
• 12:58
  Do whatever you want. It does not affect me.
• 13:01
  You could make your stock however you choose, and I'm not
• 13:04
  going to judge you for it, but chefs are judging people.
• 13:07
  They'll judge everyone on how they make whatever recipe
• 13:09
  they're like. I make my Bolognese this way.
• 13:11
  Oh really? You don't put it through the
• 13:12
  grinder. I always grind mine.
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  I always grind my Maripois through the grinder before I
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  make my Bolognese. Oh really?
• 13:18
  Don't hand chop yours. You're supposed to hand chop it.
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  That's the way my grandmother did it.
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  And then someone's going to say that's not true Alfredo.
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  True Alfredo doesn't have any cream in it, and true Alfredo
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  doesn't have chicken in it. Doesn't matter what you say,
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  they're always going to say that there's that you're wrong, as if
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  you're not allowed to express yourself through food, you have
• 13:36
  to color within the lines of other chef's opinions, which is
• 13:40
  the most ridiculous thing. It's the most constraining thing
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  as a chef to conform your ideas to tradition because it prevents
• 13:49
  innovation. Now, I'm not saying that
• 13:50
  tradition doesn't have its place, because I think in order
• 13:53
  to break the rules you have to understand them first.
• 13:56
  You have to know how to make the classics before you could
• 13:58
  improvise on them, so you could see where there's opportunity to
• 14:02
  put your signature on it for your own palate preferences.
• 14:06
  You could plate something beautifully a certain way and
• 14:08
  someone's going to say your food is dated and people don't plate
• 14:10
  like that anymore, while the guest is going to come in and
• 14:13
  say it's beautiful and stunning, right?
• 14:15
  The whole thing is really subjective, but the fact that we
• 14:18
  codified a lot of things in culinary based on the origin of
• 14:22
  the dish or the creator of the dish, it doesn't allow for
• 14:25
  deviation. And this is sometimes a problem
• 14:27
  with the vocabulary that we use. So if we use a certain word,
• 14:31
  then a lot of people have to hold you to that, right?
• 14:33
  So years ago I had a bordele sauce on the menu and another
• 14:38
  chef friend of mine called me out and says where's the bone
• 14:40
  marrow? It's like, well, I didn't have
• 14:41
  bone marrow in the border leis. Now do I know that border leis
• 14:44
  gets bone marrow? Yes, I know that, but I I just
• 14:47
  didn't feel like messing around with calling it something else.
• 14:50
  Is like it's a it's a brown sauce.
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  I'm going to call it border leis.
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  Am I going to go to culinary jail?
• 14:55
  Does the person that called me out for not having bone marrow
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  think I didn't know that and now they feel superior because they
• 15:00
  brought something to my attention, which I already knew?
• 15:03
  Do I need to explain to them my logic?
• 15:05
  I'm telling you, you can make something absolutely perfect and
• 15:08
  another chef is going to come around and tell you why you're
• 15:10
  wrong, and they're going to feel the sense of moral superiority
• 15:13
  to explain to you the correct method.
• 15:15
  It's ridiculous when people do that.
• 15:17
  I just laugh because it's like, what?
• 15:19
  Can you make it? Can you make it?
• 15:21
  Then it doesn't matter. You call it whatever you want.
• 15:22
  You call it a pancake, and it could be a steak.
• 15:25
  But if it's the best steak I've ever had, I'm going to call it a
• 15:28
  pancake, too. I don't care what you call it.
• 15:30
  The end result is what matters. I put up a Chef's PSA the other
• 15:33
  day and I said some chefs would rather be right than make good
• 15:38
  food. I'm going to say that again.
• 15:39
  Some chefs would rather be right than make good food, meaning
• 15:43
  they'd rather be right that they know the right way to do things.
• 15:46
  That it they are steeped in tradition, that it needs to be
• 15:48
  done a certain way, that it has to be ground in a mortar and
• 15:51
  pestle or has to be passed through a food mill.
• 15:53
  Or if you're going to make classic Robichon potatoes, you
• 15:58
  have to go food mill and Tammy. Some people are going to say you
• 16:01
  have to bake it. No, you have to boil the potato,
• 16:03
  right. People are going to argue over
• 16:04
  the nuance of how to get to the end result, but does it matter?
• 16:09
  The shortest path to get to the most delicious result is the
• 16:12
  most efficient and is really all that matters.
• 16:15
  The guest dining in the in the restaurant doesn't care which
• 16:18
  method you used as long as it's delicious.
• 16:20
  And if it's more delicious to boil it versus bake it or to
• 16:24
  Tammy it versus not Tammy it. Do you think the guest is going
• 16:27
  to say, yeah, it's perfect, but sorry, you should have tammyed
• 16:30
  it twice. No, they they really don't care
• 16:32
  about that. But yet we let sometimes
• 16:35
  tradition hold us back from being efficient.
• 16:38
  How I work in the kitchen, if I have 20 people helping me versus
• 16:41
  if I have two people helping me, it's going to change
• 16:44
  differently, right? If I have an army of cooks, I
• 16:46
  know I could do more complex, more detailed food.
• 16:48
  If I have just a few people, I might have to change the menu a
• 16:51
  little bit. You have to work with the tools
• 16:52
  that you're given. 100 years ago, they didn't have Vitamix.
• 16:57
  If they did, the recipe wouldn't read past the lobster shells
• 17:01
  through a food mill or grind them in a mortar and pestle.
• 17:03
  It wouldn't, it wouldn't say that.
• 17:05
  It would say, you know, put in the Vita Prep.
• 17:07
  So if you have access to this, then you should adapt.
• 17:10
  Another very difficult things for chefs, especially when
• 17:13
  you're new in your career, is when you're coming out.
• 17:14
  You're in your first restaurant and you have to resist the urge
• 17:18
  to say they taught me differently in school.
• 17:20
  That's not the right way to do it according to, you know, Miss
• 17:22
  Coffee or whoever, right? And you're telling the chef
• 17:27
  who's doing it and has a successful restaurant, that
• 17:31
  school who's teaching you the fundamentals in a very slow
• 17:35
  controlled environment that they are doing it wrong in the real
• 17:39
  world. And it's kind of ridiculous,
• 17:41
  right. And and and you know, I think it
• 17:43
  gets on my nerves so much because I used to do that a lot
• 17:45
  when I was a young cook. I would tell my chef in my one
• 17:48
  of my first jobs, like that's not the classic method.
• 17:51
  And then he said, it was funny because I did used to say this
• 17:53
  to my chef when I was young. I was like 17 or 18, still in
• 17:56
  culinary school. And the chef would do something
• 17:59
  that was against what they taught me in culinary school.
• 18:03
  And I would say, you know, the chef at school said blah, blah,
• 18:05
  blah. And the chef said to me, your
• 18:07
  chef at school used to be my apprentice.
• 18:10
  You could tell him, I said that it's kind of the real world,
• 18:13
  right? Do it the way your chef wants
• 18:14
  you to do. It's like that old expression,
• 18:16
  What's the right way to do it? Do it the way they want you to
• 18:18
  do in their kitchen. Period.
• 18:20
  You might know a lot of different ways.
• 18:22
  Don't be opposed to learning new ideas.
• 18:23
  Don't be opposed to finding a new way to do something.
• 18:27
  There's a lot of different ways to do things.
• 18:29
  If you're paying attention in a kitchen and you go to a new
• 18:31
  kitchen, rather than speaking up and saying how you do it
• 18:35
  differently, why don't you learn their way?
• 18:37
  And when the time comes, you could show it that there is
• 18:40
  another way and maybe they adapt to it.
• 18:41
  Maybe they don't. And maybe you find out that
• 18:43
  there's a reason things are done a certain way.
• 18:45
  Someone is going to say, well people shouldn't have an ego and
• 18:49
  be so sensitive to not hearing new ideas.
• 18:51
  True, they shouldn't, but I'd question where the ego is really
• 18:55
  coming from. Is it coming from the person
• 18:58
  that doesn't want to hear the new idea from someone on their
• 19:01
  first day, or is it potentially coming?
• 19:03
  Is the ego, the insecure ego coming from the person that has
• 19:07
  to show how much they know on their first day and tell the
• 19:10
  person who's been doing it a certain way that they are wrong?
• 19:13
  Who has the big ego here? I mean really, is it the person
• 19:17
  that doesn't want to hear it, or is it the person who has to say
• 19:21
  it? I don't know.
• 19:22
  I'll let you guys decide who? Who's the one with the big ego?
• 19:25
  The person that has to get it off their chest to tell them
• 19:28
  that they know something that the other person doesn't know?
• 19:31
  Or is it the person who has been doing a certain way, trial and
• 19:34
  error, probably has more experience than you, probably
• 19:37
  knows the way that you're going to tell them to do it, but has
• 19:39
  decided on a different way? I don't know.
• 19:41
  They must have the big ego, right?
• 19:43
  What's the point? The point is, is that as a chef,
• 19:46
  as a cook, as you're developing your style first and foremost,
• 19:49
  it's important to learn the basics, gain the fundamentals of
• 19:52
  cooking. Do not be opposed to new ideas,
• 19:54
  to new ways of thinking. New ways of thinking is just
• 19:57
  going to add more. It's important that you have a
• 19:59
  little bit of discernment when you're learning new techniques
• 20:02
  to figure out what is going to improve and what is going to
• 20:05
  detract the food that you're making.
• 20:07
  Take the best, discard what's not useful.
• 20:10
  And when people come to you and tell you that you're wrong, it's
• 20:13
  just noise. Keep doing you let your own food
• 20:17
  shine. Be the innovator, be the
• 20:19
  exception to the rule. And I'll leave you with this
• 20:21
  last thought. It's the outlier, and it's the
• 20:24
  exception to the rule that gets noticed.
• 20:26
  When everyone starts at the same place, acts the same, and does
• 20:31
  food the exact same way, they all end up with the same result.
• 20:34
  It's the person who's willing to step outside the lines.
• 20:37
  Be the exception. Be creative and do things their
• 20:41
  own way are the ones that become successful, right?
• 20:45
  So if you want to become successful in this industry or
• 20:48
  any industry, then be unique. And sometimes being unique is
• 20:52
  doing things perfectly in the tradition.
• 20:54
  So nothing wrong with tradition. Sometimes executing the most
• 20:58
  traditional proper food is beautiful in itself.
• 21:01
  Anyway, you all know what to do if you want to support the show.
• 21:04
  Make sure you leave five stars. Go to chefspsa.com, you get all
• 21:07
  the books, all the merch. Thank you all very much.
• 21:09
  See you next week. Hit the porno music.