Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / S6 E19 _ Captured_ The Chilling 911 Call That Brought Down Shawn Grate Part 2

Transcript

S6 E19 _ Captured_ The Chilling 911 Call That Brought Down Shawn Grate Part 2 · True Crime and Wine Time

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, welcome to true crime and wine time.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: I'm carried and I'm Lama. Tonight we are uncorking the truth.
• 0:10
  Speaker 3: One of the darkest crimes and breaking it down together
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: with you.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: One case, one conversation, and one or maybe two glasses
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: of wine. It's taking a job. It's time to get
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: comfortable and double check those locks before we get started.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: So let's take a sip and dive in. Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Happy Thursday night to everybody. Happy like Alama. Why do
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: you sound out of breath Because I got into a
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: fight with my chair. That's why I saw it happens.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: It's true. I did, and I prevailed, and I am
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: the conqueror. No I have you know I have a
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: tower computer, right, and I have these cool little headphones.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: The problem is is they don't reach right if you
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: just plug them in, so you know, we got an
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: extender for it. This is a year ago, and they
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: get tangled up in my chair all the time because
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: instead of just buying you know, like a three feet
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: extender or something like that elbow feed, my partner bought
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: a nine foot one because that's.
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: Go big or go home, makes sense.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: And it's been the bane of my existence for over
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: a year now.
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: So well, it is fair to say that you had
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: a war with your throne tonight and you won.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I did. I won the Game of Thrones.
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: That we're talking Game of Thrones.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: A little bit before we were we were well, hello everyone,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: you know me, Islama, the Lovely Terry True Crime couldn't
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: be with us this week while she's recuperating, So I
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: brought my guest co hosts from part one, the Lovely Amos,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: who generally works behind the scenes as producer and making
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: funny faces of gestures at us while we're live that
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: you guys can't see, but we do. But she's decided
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: to go on camera again because I told her she
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: did such a great job last time. So thank you
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: for coming in recording this with me. Yeah, you did great.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: You did great. Though, before we begin, if you are
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: watching us on YouTube, please hit that like button boop,
• 2:33
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• 2:39
  Speaker 2: or drop an episode. Because we have lots of shows
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: over there. I have my show Couch Court with Lama,
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: There's Midday Missing True come in one time for members,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: we got lots of shows like Lama Learns, about which
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: I'm doing tomorrow. I'm very excited. Am I have those?
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: While? Yes see, I've been so disconnected. I didn't even
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: know you were having Alama Learns tomorrow.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I am. That reminds me. Remind me to schedule after
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: we'd on, because I meant to do it before and
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: we got distracted talking about Game of Thrones.
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: You haven't talked all week, that's true. That's true because
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: you had a life, which is rude. You know, dare
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: you have a social life. Hello, Lady and Gray, good
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: evening to you. Let's say hi to our friends real quick.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Hello Pam saying good good evening, friends, and grab your
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: snacks and buckle up for episode two of the Sean
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Great Story, which is infuriating. There will be ram I'm
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: sure it is not so great, Lady and Gray. Let
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: me be the first to say that I hate this guy.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: We really should just rename the show too. I hate
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: this guy blank and just insert a name there, because
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: we do hate everybody. Tender cover because there they suck.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: They're awful all Lady and Gray just ordered her anniversary
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: March So yesterday was my one year anniversary of my
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: show Couch with all.
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: My I'm so sad I couldn't be there. I mean
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: I tried, but.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: You know you were there in spirits. I know your messages.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: But she just bought merch that's on sale. It's only
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: it's all one years off, including a cash court with
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Lama coloring book. It's all couch Court with Lama.
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: I'm totally getting the car.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: I know, I am too. Uh And we're going to
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: leave that up for like the next month, So use
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: a bread tide to shorten the court silly. Oh my gosh,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: lady and Gray, why are you just now telling me
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: this where zip ties or zip ties? I didn't think
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: about it. I will now, I will now. Now. If
• 4:37
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• 4:40
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• 4:48
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• 4:52
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• 4:55
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• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Thus trillion viewers. We are listeners. We have that's been
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: listening to our Robert Hansen twelve part series because that's
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: where they are on the pod. But hello, friends from
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: the other side of the world, thank you for listening
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: to us. I want to give you a nice little
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: shout out there or that, yes, amos can say that.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: You say that, it's like good day mate. Sorry, you
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: don't mean to tarnish your accent. We're just Midwesterners. You
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: can also become a member of our YouTube channel, which
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  Speaker 2: like some additional shows and all that jazz. All you
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: have to do is click the joined button and pick
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: which tire works best for you. So, as we said tonight,
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: we are here for part two. Captured the call that
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: brought down Sean Grat and the first one was wow wow.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: To hear Jane Joe's call to nine one one is
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: just the goosebumps every time. I mean I could probably
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: listened to it numerous times, but even then, just ough
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: goosebumps every single time. Hi lady, Hi, you're always darting dinner.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: I love that you like to listen to us and
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: cook food. I love that I hope it's food and
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: not people. I'm just kidding mighty. Sorry, if so, I
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: won't tell anybody. It's okay. So we'll be continuing on
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: with that tonight, mostly doing his interviews with the police.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: So they're just as not great as you thought they
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: would be. But before we get into that, why don't
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: you tell us what you're drinking? Aims?
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: Oh, tonight, So I just got back from Tennessee. I
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: went down there for a little weekend jaunt. But we
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: went to the BUCkies.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, that's the big guest place.
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: Love BUCkies. Michigan doesn't have a BUCkies, and in fact,
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: the closest one is Kentucky until I hear Ohio's getting one.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Ohio has one. It's open, it's on dayton No. Yeah,
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: you know how like you come down seventy five, probably
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: to guess what if you take seventy five all the
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: way down the seventy because you're gonna come visit me
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: in Columbus. It's on the way, babe.
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: Even more reasons to come visit you, even more reasons.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, is it an hour away from where I live? Yes?
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Worth it?
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: Yes? Okay, I didn't. I picked up this tumbler from BUCkies.
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: The sweetest trip and so I'm drinking my my peach team.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Oh well, that's cool. I've never been to wine, but
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: elbow Feet has been to wine. And he called me
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: because he went to Tennessee. That's where you.
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: Oh God, elbow Feet in the BUCkies.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he told me, he said, don't ever go there.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: You're gonna hate it. It's like it's everything you hate
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: and that makes you anxious. You don't want to go.
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: Chaos.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was like, never, never, don't do that. So well,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: tonight I am drinking wine. I'm drinking Yosemite Road a mescatto.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: It's nothing fancy. It's from a gas station, not BUCkies.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: But it was late on time and I was like,
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: oh shit, it's Thursday. I should probably have some. So
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: that's what I'm drinking tonight. Much needed. It's okay. I mean, honestly,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: for cheap wine, it's really refreshing. It's not like some
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: of the other you know, four dollars bottle wines or whatever.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: So BUCkies is people. Ye, yeah, you know, thank you.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I'm good.
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: But they have I mean, their brisket's really good. I
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: like it, and they have every fountain you drink you
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: could possibly think of, like a freeing wall. Oh wow,
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: I love my fountain.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: I don't like fountain, Bob, you know, I like stuff
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: in my cants, watermelon and strawberry, busy heart cell hel
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: that sounds nice in summary. I love that. All right, guys, Well,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: we got another long one for you tonight, So let's
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: get into the story tonight. Actually going to give you
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: a quick recap of where we went because a husband
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: a week. So we started off last episode with a
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: call from a woman who was held in the house
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: by her abductor, who had been brutally raped and tortured,
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: and she called nine one one while he was asleep,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: begging for people to come rescue her. And it is
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: very again I know I've already said it gives you goosebumps.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: That's like understating that. You can just feel the fear
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: from her words. And she was being held in an
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: abandoned house, and so during that call, you know, you
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: can hear them trying to locate her and all of that.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: They eventually do locate her and arrestless man Sean Gray.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: If she said she's known for about a month and
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: a half. They had met at a the Croc Community
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Center right where they give away like free lunches and
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: help people, you know, get up on their feet and everything.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: She's a volunteer there and that's how she met him,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: and then he did this. But what they didn't know,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: the police didn't know, is that Jane wasn't the only
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: person there. They then found the body of Elizabeth Liz Griffith,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: who had been only reported missing for a week, but
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: she'd actually been missing for about a month and a half.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: And her body was found in a closet, tied up
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: and the door you know, taped shut as well. And unfortunately,
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Liz wasn't the only body they found in the house.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: They found the body of Stanley or sorry, Stacy Stanley
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: who her body was found under the basement stairs with
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: trash thrown on her, who had only been miss reported
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: missing for just a few days. And we learned a
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: little bit about the histories of Liz and Stacy. Liz
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: was special needs as well as had paranoids, schizophrenia, She
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: had a history of mental illnesses. She had a whole
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: care team. She did live on her own, but she
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: had a team to help her with her everyday lives,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: you know. And then Stacy, sorry, he said, Stanley that's
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: her last name, Stacy.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: She was a recovering annex she had just you know,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: been it turned her life around. But beyond that, she
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: was a loving mother of two boys, while men at
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: this point in their lives, but I'm sure to her
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: still her little boys, you know, a grandmother.
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: She was known for.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Loving rock music and having big hair and big air,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: as we saw from a picture, was not an understatement. Okay,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: huge hair, you know, huge hair for big energy seemed
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: to be what people like to stay say about Stacy.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: And what's so sad about Stacy is that she didn't
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: know this guy. She had gotten a flat tire pulled
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: into a BP was waiting for her son's friend to
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: come help change her tire, and Sean Gray just happened
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: to be there, and so he played the nice guy whatever,
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: and you know, to be nice, she offered him a
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: ride back to his house and then that's when he
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: abducted her, assaulted her, and murdered her. And so that's
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: where we left off. He's been arrested by the police,
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: and now we're going to get into his background, his
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: family life, as well as the interviews with Captain Leigh
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: and Detective Kim major who is really quite amazing in
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: this whole story. So she needs you badass, A major
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: badass that she is. She had big, amazing, amazing hair,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: so that's.
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: What I would say. It was more eighties, but okay whatever.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: I loved it all right. So let's get into Sean
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Great's background. So to understand the man who was sitting
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: in the interrogation room, we have to look back at
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: the cracks that formed in his foundation decades before the
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: first body was found. Oh my god, he doesn't even
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: have a shirt on. Oh yeah, I forgot. He was
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: naked when they arrested him.
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: Now we're lucky he has pants on.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: That's true. We aren't lucky to his pants on. Sorry,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: if you're listening to this on a podcast. When we
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: record this on YouTube, we usually have some visuals to
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: go along with it. So if you're like, what are
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: they talking about? You can come over and watch it
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: on YouTube as well, if you do better with visuals
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: for things. Now, the portrait of Sean Grade's youth is
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: one of a charming boy whose internal world was slowly
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: being poisoned by resentment and a perceived sense of abandonment.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: Sean Greats was born in Marion, Ohio on August eighth,
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: nineteen seventy six.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: We had a show there last year.
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: We did, We did. And to his neighbors and teachers,
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: he was a handsome, laid back kid with striking blue eyes,
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: eyes that would become a haunting trademark mentioned by almost
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: every woman who crossed his path. But behind the smile
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: and the charming put persona, there were signs of struggle
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: he held. He was held back both in kindergarten and
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: first grade, an early indicator that he was out of
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: step with the world around him.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and being in the seventies and eighties,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: it's not like they even had like programs we have
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: today for kids that had behavioral issues that early on.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Now would he have benefited from them, Who knows, but
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: they really might have those things back then. Now, the
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: stability of his early childhood vanished right before his sixth birthday.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: His parents, Terry and Teresa, separated in nineteen eighty two,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: and for years the narrative of his home life was
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: a tuck of war. Initially, his mother was awarded custody,
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: and by the time he was eleven, his mother moved
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: the family to Kentucky, to be with a boyfriend, but
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: just two months before Sean turned sixteen, the legal tide
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: shifted and custody was transferred to his father, Terry. So
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Sean moved back to Ohio and attended River Valley High School.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: And I just want to say, it's actually not uncommon
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: for may when they get into their teens and they
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: come from a family like that, to then want to
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: live with their father during those years. I just I
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: remember when my son was younger. Uh, that was something
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: that was just talked about, like, you know, you never
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: know why the time he's there, you may want to
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: you know, not be around mommy all the time anymore.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: I mean that makes sense.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Have you know, more time with their fathers, which I
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: mean some some do. Mine's not like that. It's because
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: I'm amazing, just kidding.
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: I mean, when you have a mom like Mama and
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: a you know, stepdad, I guess you could say, like
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: be not everything you need any anyway. Uh. Later in
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: his future interrogation with Detective Kim Major, she pressed great
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: on what drove his hunger, and he reached back to
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: a memory from and he was just four years old.
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: He told a story of being hungry for cereal and
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: knocking on his mother's locked bedroom door, and when it
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: finally opened, it wasn't his mother who answered, but a
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: strange man, and great claimed that the man followed him
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: to his room and attacked him.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Now, whether this memory was accurate or a convenient narrative
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: for his crimes, which is what I think, it served
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: as the foundation for his deep seated hatred of his mother.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: He told Mager Major she was promiscuous and had abandoned him,
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: which doesn't make sense because his parents would have been
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: still married at this time. And you're telling me a
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: grown as man beat a kid and the dad didn't
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: notice or see anything. I don't know. I don't know.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: We don't know either way if it's true. But I
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: just I have my sister.
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: He's a storyteller, I think. But yeah, that's an opinion.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, it was a classic serial killer trope of
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: a toxic, unresolved resentment towards the mother figure that he
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: would later project onto every woman he met.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: And Now, if his relationship with his mother was built
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: on hate, his relationship with his father was built on
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: a single, fragile bond of baseball. Baseball was the language
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: he and his father spoke and during his time at
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: River Valley High Great was a pitcher and during a
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: game he broke his arm. During the subsequent surgery to
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: fix his arm, doctors discovered that he had a tumor.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: The injury would end his baseball career, and in Great's mind,
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: he didn't just lose a sport, he lost his connection
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: with his father. He felt detached, like a ghost in
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: his own town, no longer the athlete his father bonded with.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Now should be noted that there are a lot of
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: contradictions in his stories. As I said, he lies a lots.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: It's because to some he said his mother was his
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: go to person and his shoulder to cry on during
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: high school, but to others he whispered that he hated
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: her for abandoning him. So this ability of his to
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: hold two conflicting truths at once allowed him to navigate
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: the world as a laid back guy while the rage
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: and jealousy simmered in him just beneath the surface and
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: was waiting for a catalyst to explode.
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: The normal facade of the high school baseball player didn't
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: just fade after his injury, It shattered. By the time
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: Sean Gray was eighteen. The simmering violence Detective Major spoke
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: of already begun to boil over into the public record.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: On Thanksgiving Day, November twenty fourth, nineteen ninety four, eighteen
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: year old Sean Gray was arrested for the first time.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: The incident was a chilling preview of the signature violence
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: he would use decades later, strangulation. When his girlfriend tried
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: to end their relationship, Great didn't let her walk away.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: He grabbed her by the throat. Now, he had already
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: established a pattern that if a woman tried to leave
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: him that he had no problem using his hands to
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: silence her.
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: Despite the arrest, Great managed to walk across the stage
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: and graduate from River Bailey High in nineteen ninety five.
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: But without the structure of school or the identity of
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: an athlete, his life quickly spiraled into criminal opportunism.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Now, in October twenty thirdeen ninety six, Great and a
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: juvenile accomplice broke into a home in Marion County. They
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: weren't just looking for a throat, though, they were looking
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: for profit, and they ended up walking away with jewelry
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: and cash. Now, this wasn't a misunderstanding. It was a
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: felony Burglary Great was caught, convicted and handed a four
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: year prison since Great.
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: End of the prison system in February of nineteen ninety seven,
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: but he wouldn't stay long. He was granted judicial release
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: after serving only eight months of his four year sentence,
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: and in October of nineteen ninety seven, Jean Gray walked
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: out of prison a free man. He moved between uh
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: Tyrus but Tyris and Marion, A convicted felon at twenty
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: one years old with a documented history of domestic final
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: and theft. To the neighbors of Marion, he was just
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: a guy who made some mistakes. They didn't see the
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: predator who had learned that the system was easy to
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: navigate and even easier to slip through.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Hi, Spetty roz Hi, babe, hope you're doing what you're
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: not late to later spot on the couch for you
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: make room for Spetty Chad, to make room for her now.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: The year in nineteen ninety nine was a terrifying preview
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: of the predator Sean Grat would become. His violence was
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: no longer just simmering beneath the surface. When he began
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: a reign of terror against the young girl carrying his child.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Now this period marks the moment his signature moved. Strangulation
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: became a weapon of domestic control. In February nineteen ninety nine,
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Great's seventeen year old girlfriend was pregnant with his child,
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: and despite her vulnerability, Great's response to con was physical dominance,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: and she called the police reporting that he had pinned
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: her down and began choking her. Just one month later,
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: he was back breaking into her home and issuing death threats.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: What a great guy, so many good choices. I hate
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: this Let's stay together. Yat, I hate this guy.
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: I hate this guy.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: The legal system's response was a revolving door. He spent
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: less than a month in jail in a tragic and
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: common cycle of domestic abuse. The girlfriend, despite her family's
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: please for a restraining order, asked the judge to lift
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: the no contract, no contact order, and on September eleventh,
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: nineteen ninety nine, their son was born. Great was now
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: a father, but the birth of his child did nothing
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: to soften his violent impulses. October of twenty second to
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: nineteen ninety nine, ear late a month after his son
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: is son's birth, the charming former baseball player vanished, replaced
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: by something out of a horror movie. Great broke into
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: his ex girlfriend's home and hid under the couch with
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: a butcher knife, waiting in the dark for her to return.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: It's terrifying, like this guy is literally every every horror
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: movie this guy does in real life. And that's that's
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: so scary now. Once they arrived home, sorry, once they
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: arrived home, he assaulted both his ex girlfriend and her
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: sister while brandishing the knife. As they struggled for the knife,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: his ex girlfriend's finger was severely sliced, and Great himself
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: was cut. But it was his own words that revealed
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: his true pathology. Quote, shut up, I'm in control now.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: If anyone comes to the door, there will not be
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: anyone here to answer it. So you better hope that
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: no one knocks at the door. He wasn't just committing
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: a crime. He was savoring the role of the captor.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: He was holding them hostage, relishing the power over life
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: and death.
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: But this time the system finally stopped the clock. Because
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: he had violated his original nineteen ninety six probation with
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: his violent felony assault, a judge revoked his early release.
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: Great was sent back to prison to serve the remainder
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: of his original four year term. From March two thousand
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: to January of two thousand and three, Sean Gray was
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: off the streets. It was the longest period of incarceration,
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: and for three years the women of Awhile, Ohio were safe.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: But prison didn't rehabilitate him. It only seemed to sharpen
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: his resentment. When he walked out of those gates in
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: January two thousand and three, he was twenty six years old,
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: twice convicted, and quite frankly, more dangerous than ever.
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: And as the heading says, that Lama Typed still a
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: pos Yes, the period between two thousand and three and
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: two thousand and five reveals the terrifying evolution of Sean
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: Great's psychological warfare. He wasn't just a physical abuser anymore.
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: He had become a master of isolation, surveillance and a
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: chilling form of a domestic psychological terror.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: In October two thousand and three, less than a year
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: after his release from a three year stint, Great was
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: back in handcuffs, Because of course he was. They always
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: are now. The charges were tragically familiar. You guessed it, guys,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Strangulation it's almost like when people use this as a
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: method of violence, they do it over and over and
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: over again. It's almost like, we know that, right, but sure, okay,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: but this time a darker layer emerged. He was accused
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: of forcing his ex girlfriend to perform a sex act
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: on him.
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: In a failure of the legal system and a failure
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: of the legal system that would have devastating consequences, he
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: was only charged with a misdemeanor domestic violence, avoiding the
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: sexual assault registry. Oh unbelievable, of course. He served a
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: mere seven months, walking out in May of two thousand
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: and four. Months.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: I know, seven fucking months. Disgusting yep.
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: By now, His ex partners described a man who vacillated
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: between unhinged rage and a crushing catatonic russion where he
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: wouldn't leave the couch for days. Red flag, red flags,
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: red flags like hello.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Right, right, it's fine, he'll change, he'll get better, You'll see,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: no just getting it doesn't happen now. In two thousand
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: and five, Great met Christina Hildreth. At first, he was
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: the ultimate chameleon. He was attentive, eager to impress, and
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: played the part of the perfect partner to her children.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Christina thought that she had found her soulmaker. Girl. It's okay,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: we are all do sometimes. But oh but the mask slipped.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: The moment they moved into the woodbine apartments in Baciris,
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: the attentive partner became a paranoid jailer. He bolted the
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: doors and windows shut so no one could see out,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: and he systematically dismantled Christina's life, isolating her from her
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: family and eventually removing her children from the home, leaving
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: her completely vulnerable.
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: Control MM. Perhaps the most disturbing evidence of Great's escalating
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: psychosis was his obsession with surveillance. Great had cut a
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: slit in the back of her sofa and had been
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: living inside the couch. Yeah, he told her he had
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: been watching her every move, even while she was sitting
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: on the very cushions he was hiding under.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: What inside the couch?
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: It was an ultimate violation of safety. The now once
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: helpful boyfriend had become a nightmare in her own living room.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: I promise you, there's no one living in our court couch. No,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: but what the fuck.
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: This guy?
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: What do you mean You're living in a couch? How
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: does one even live in a couch. That's what I
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: don't understand. But oh, thank god, not.
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: Me going out there and double like hitting the back.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Of my caut right, everybody, right now, get.
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: Up, check your couches.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Stang your couches. I didn't even know that was an option,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: you know, I had to worry about this.
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's not funny. I mean, I'm making
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: a joke, but this guy is diabolical like, but he
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: won't come up.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: With right rehabilitation my ass. It's so weird. So yeah,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: good checking, checking your couch. Just guys, okay, does hope
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: you're having a good night, babe. Welcome, Welcome, gosh. In
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: June twenty ten, Great launched a brutal assault, raining blows
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: down on Christina's face and grabbing her by the throat. Now.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: During the struggle, he broke her arm, and in a
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: rare moment of courage, Christina spoke up, good for you, girl,
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: I know it's hard, good for you. While Gray waited
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: in the hospital, she told the nursing staff the truth,
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: but by the time the police arrived, the opportunist had
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: already fled.
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: Following police advice, Christina stayed away from the apartment, but
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: when she returned briefly to collect her essentials, she walked
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: into a scene from a nightmare. He was hiding inside
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: the couch again again. He again, he had waited in
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: the darnt.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: I just walk in row shit gasoline on my couch
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: and just set it on fire and be like, I
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: don't know. I mean, you can call it arson, I guess,
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: but somebody was living in my couch.
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: I mean, if he's living in it and it's on fire.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: And well, I don't know, can you claim self defense? Probably?
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: He waited in the dark, folded into the furniture, watching
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: and waiting for her to return. This time, however, the
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: police caught him and he was arrested sentenced to one
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: hundred and eighty days in jail for first degree misdemeanor
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: domestic violence.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: What yeah, what?
• 32:22
  Speaker 6: What?
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: How?
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: How is that it? How is it not breaking and
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: entering or burglary or some other serious shit when he's
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: living in a couch? Okay, what I mean.
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: We're not talking about like on the couch. We're talking
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: like in the couch.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: The couch, Yeah, his girlfriend earlier, he was hiding underneath this,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: underneath the couch because I had to double check, like
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: several times, like no, surely, oh yes, that is exactly
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: what Pam wrote and research it was like what's dam.
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, what do jagging? Bam?
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: He broke her arm. He basically tried to kill her.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: All he gets is one hundred and eighty days in jail.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: What is that like six months or something. That's not enough.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, it's not enough. And anybody that's.
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: Crazy enough to live in a couch.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Twice yet with his record, writes flamethrow to the couch. Yeah,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: a misdemeanor, guys, a misdemeanor for domestic violence. Now, even
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: behind bars, Great refused to let go of the control
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: he craved. He violated protection errs by calling Christina repeatedly,
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: thank god, we only gave him one hundred and eighty days, right, guys,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: he's really going to learn his lesson in there now.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: While he couldn't reach her directly, Oh my god, this
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: nextpert's wild. While he couldn't reach her directly, he began
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: sending bizarre, unsettling letters to the apartments to her cats. Yeah, yeah,
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: you heard that correctly, letters addressed to the cats. All right,
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: So he's lived in the couch twice and now he's
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: writing cats. But we're like, you know what, one hundred
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: and eighty days, that's gonna fix some I'm gonna be fine.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: He's gonna learn his lessons.
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: What should he should have been hospitalized or sent for
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: some sort of evaluation at least I don't know. But
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: something is wrong with this guy. Right.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Does doctor Spencer Reid get mail leg Oh my gosh,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: that's so crazy.
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: I'm sure that doctor Spencer Reid doesn't get unsettling letters
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: in the mail.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: From people in prison who lived in your couch. I
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: morbidly want to know what they say, because I'm like,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: what does one write to a cabin at the same time.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: I bet it's horrific. I don't think it's hey, m m,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: you playing with your little toy. You're getting your belly scratches. No,
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: I think it's bad, bad things he probably wanted to
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: do to the cats. I just.
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: I can't stand this guy.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: No.
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: So, Christina endured five years of the psychological and physical cage.
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: During that time, Great's only recorded work history was a
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: few weeks at a motel. He lived off her, controlled her,
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: and hunted her.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: A fucking loser, and even.
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: After she managed to get away the night Mirrore did mend.
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: Two years later, word reached her that Sean was looking
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: for her. Quote, I moved, I got a different car,
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: I changed everything. I knew if he found me, I
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: wouldn't survive the second time.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Christina, you weren't wrong, girl, No, you weren't wrong. And
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: good for her, like, it's so hard to get out
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: of these relationships, and listen, you can if anybody's like, oh,
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: you could just leave. He hid in her couch twice
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: and wrote horrible letters to her cuts right, like what
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: else could you do? Like, oh, my goodness, I'm so
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: thankful that Christina, you were able to get out and
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: get help. And unfortunately, I'm sorry you had to live
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: in fear for as long as you did. Yeah, you know,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: because Christina Hildreth was one of the lucky ones. We're
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: about to see that. There's so many that weren't lucky.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: You know. She escaped the man who lived in her couch.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: But as she moved into the shadows to protect yourself,
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Sean Gray was already looking for his next victim. Because
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty days didn't fix anything, The.
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: Year twenty eleven saw Sean Gray attempting to perform his
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: most convinced rule yet, the devoted church going family man. But,
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: as Amber Nicole Bowman would sooner discover, the loving husband
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: was merely a thin skin mask for the other shop.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Wow, OK, dubs, there was a dude in your attic
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: whose release date is twenty thirty. Oh my gosh, that
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: is horrifying. Wow, I'm so sorry that must be Oh.
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: Again, that's terrifying.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, anybody like living through people living in their shit
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: that's not supposed to be there. Oh my goodness, it's
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: going to.
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: Make the noises in a house seem extremely more spooky
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: to me.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad some sort of he's locked away for
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: some time anyway. Yeah, it's been in the dance now.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: In late twenty eleven, Sean Gray was a regular attendee
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: at a local church in Mansfield. It was here that
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: he met Amber Nicole Bowman. To Amber, Sean was the
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: answer to a prayer. It always starts out that way,
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: doesn't it. He was kind, attentive, and seemingly grounded in faith. Okay,
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: don't believe that for one second. They were married on
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: December twenty third, twenty eleven, just as the holiday season
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: was in full swing, and for a few months a
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: fantasy held. In July twenty twelve, they welcomed a daughter
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: into the world. But as soon as the permanent bond
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: of a child was established, the all American facade began
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: to rot.
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: Amber's account of their short lived marriage mirrors the story
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: of the women who came before her, but with an
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: even more ominous intensity. The isolation tact tactics began immediately.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: Grat tried to sever ambers ties with her support system,
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: and when she fought back, the threats turned toward their child.
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: He issued a chilling ultimatum that would haunt her long
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: after the divorce. And let's hear her talk about that.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: He called my work actually, and he told me if
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: he could not see his daughter, then nobody else could.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: And then he said, if you do not help me
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: and give me money and help me out financially, he
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: was going to put my family's names in a hat
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: and start taking things himself, and it will be the
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: grand finale. At that point, I was very scared.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, wow, oh Amber girl. And here's the thing.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: It was like with his past. You fucking believe him,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: all right? Like I wouldn't call his bluff on anything,
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: and he hasn't murdered anyone yet in his story, but
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's from a lack of trimph that
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: we know that we know of. Actually, wait, when did
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: they get married? Oh no, technically he has already murdered before,
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: but we'll get to that next episode. Sorry, yes, I
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: forgot about the timeline on that now. She described a
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: physical shift that happened when greats temper flared, a moment
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: where his famous blue eyes seemed to transform. She told
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: police that he put his hands around her neck and
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: something in his eyes changed. He turned very dark, and
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: she realized it wasn't the man she married anymore. And
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: that's like a real phenomenon that really does happen.
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: And it's very eerie, very eerie. It's like shark eyes
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: or something. Sean Gray can be neal. I'm sorry you
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: don't sleep well, k Dubs. I totally understand. And you know,
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: people are just like, why do people on listen to
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: a true crime? It's entertaining because this shit really does happen,
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: and people like, you know, some people might be like,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: well if this happened to you, why do you listen
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: to true crime because it's oddly enough, makes you feel
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: not alone in so many different facets where you do
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: feel alone, you know, whether you're a victim of a crime,
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: whether you're a family of a missing person, whether you're
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: you know, it just helps knowing sadly. I mean, it's
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: not a positive. It's a bittersweet thing to know that
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: other people have went through the same suffering that you have.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, it's like the only thing
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: that makes it not so scary, you know.
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree with that, and I mean the more
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: you know, right as far as somebody who hasn't been
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: through it. I listen to these stories, and I obviously
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: here I can understand where these victims are coming from,
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: and I know now things. Maybe I'm a little paranoid now,
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: but I look for all of the things that you
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: read and hear in these true crime stories.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: Just yeah, absolutely, you know they're real. There, there are
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: real things that happen every day. I know most of
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: us like to live in our little fantasy protection bubble.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: We all do. And there's nothing wrong with that to
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: be like, oh, that would never happen to me. But
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: it's also not entire realistic because you don't know what
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: could happen to you at any point in time. So
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: I always think, you know, I mean they usually say
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: about whether you know, like be prepared and not scared. Well,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: I think the same could apply to the true crime.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: You know, be prepared, carry something, you know, I mean,
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: most of the victims, they didn't do anything that would
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: even result their life exist, you know, and sadly, you
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: know that can happen to any one of us. So well.
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: Amber filed for divorce in October twenty twelve. Good for you,
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: Amber here after their wedding. By April of twenty thirteen,
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: she was back in court filing a restraining order, terrified
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: for her life and the lives of her family members.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: But it wasn't just his romantic partners who were seeing
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: the cracks. Great's instability was leaking into his platonic friendships.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: When a friend refused to give him a loan, Great
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: didn't react with frustration. Instead, he reacted with a threat.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: He's in a text message that simply read me the
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: other knee who yes, weird home.
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah. It was a rare moment of honesty from a
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: man who spent his life in disguise. He was acknowledging
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: the monster that lived behind the blue eyes, the other
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: Sean that was currently brewing, the hunger that would lead
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: him into the woods of Ashland and the closets of
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: the Yellow House. With his marriage over and his ties
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: to normalcy severed, Great was now a man with nothing.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: To lose, and by late twenty thirteen, Sean Gray was
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: a man adrift. His marriage had imploded due to his
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: own fucking making. His other mee was becoming the dominant personality,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: and as Sistem had repeatedly failed to recognize the serial
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: predator in its midst it literally turned a blind eye.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Mean again, how many times of him strangling women do
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: you need before he's actually charged as a violent offender? Right,
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: how many do you need?
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: Like?
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: Seriously, Ohio, get it together now. For the next two years,
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: he drifted through the back alleys and vacant lots of Ohio.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: Ghost in the machine if you will, until the morning
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: the handcuffs finally finally stayed on for good, of course,
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: at the expense of others' lives. Right, So, Great, Ohio
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: has blood on their hands too. Cool? Cool?
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: Unfortunately, so many other states do as well.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: So that's true.
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: The investigation into Elizabeth Griffith's disappearance had been Captain David
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: Leigh's primary focus for a week. He was deep in
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: the digital weeds of phone pings and bus routes when
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: the call came in. A woman had escaped a house
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: on Covert Court, and the man they had in custody
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: wasn't just a kidnapper. He was a squatter in a
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: house that was quickly becoming a crime scene.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: Now Captain Lay walked into the interrogation room. This was
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: the first time law enforcement sat face to face with
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: the man who would become Ashland's greatest nightmare. Sean Gray
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: sat there seemingly calm, which is crazy. When Captain Lay
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: began to question him, Great didn't retreat. Instead, he started talking.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: He identified himself clearly, and his voice was steady, as
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: if he was just discussing a mundane misunderstanding rather than
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: a violent felony. Like, yeah, I know that there's a
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: naked woman who called the police. But it's fine. I'm fine,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: everything's fine. Let's be besties.
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, weird, he's watching him. The interrogation is very weird
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: to watch.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: That is true. I guess we should say for listeners
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: the interrogation of Sean Gray. They're both available on YouTube
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: right yeah, as well as his trial. So yes, you
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: can see this for yourself with your own eyes and
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: see what you you pick up from it now.
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: Greg told Lay he had known Jane Doe for about
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: two months, and claiming they'd met shortly after he arrived
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: in Ashland from Mansfield. He admitted he was squatting, claiming
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: he didn't even know whose house it was, but his
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: version of the timeline was already starting to fray.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: Great tried to paint a picture of a domestic dispute somehow,
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know how. He was kind of fein it
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: that way, but he tried. He told the captain that
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Jane Doe had been talking about an ex boyfriend named Daniel,
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: and that the tension between them had escalated. He even
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: admitted to walking from her apartment back to his house
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: with her.
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: In Great's mind, getting carried away was a euphemism for
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: three days of terror Jane Doe had actually endured. He
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: was testing the waters, trying to see how much the
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: police knew and how much he could.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: Minimize, which is wild because in the last episode we
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: talked about Jane Doe's you know hospital visit, the whole
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: you know, rape kit process, what happened to her? What
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: was all over her like? And he just thought, oh,
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: you know what, they're totally not going to see what
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: are you kidding me?
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: What dude, they're going to do the house right now.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: Where he knows there's dead bodies.
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but they're not going to I'm just gonna wait.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: Right, it's just gonna mis understanding. It's fine now, But
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Captain Lay wasn't there just to talk about Jane Doe.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: He was there because Liz Griffith was still missing. Now,
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: as Gray continued to talk about Jane Doe, Ley was
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: looking for the crack and the story, the moment where
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: a nice guy squatter would have to explain why the
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: house on cover Court had a smell that no carried
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: away arguments could explain.
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: I can't even imagine. Gray continued his attempts to redefine
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: violence as a twisted form of romance, and as Captain
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: Lay pressed for details, Great's narrative became a chilling mixture
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: of emissions and blankant minimizations. He initially tried to frame
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: the sexual thoughts as conversations that turned physical. They had sex,
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: but admitted Jane Doe didn't like it and was beating
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: herself up about it. Right, He casually confessed to punching
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: her about twenty four hours prior to his arrest as Linda,
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: and admitted that even after he struck her, he forced
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: her to have sex, even though she explicitly told him
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: she didn't want to.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: Oh god, it's good now. Captain Lay didn't let the
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: carried away narrative stand. He confronted great with the truth.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: And let's listen to this little part, Shelley.
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: She's saying you tied her down to a bed. I mean,
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: what's the deal with all the straps on the mattresses?
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: I did tire Now I've abducted her.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: You have doctor, Yeah, yeah, excited doctor. It's fine. I
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: did It's I ab doctor. I did her. It's don't
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: you don't.
• 50:54
  Speaker 5: We all it's crazy, crazy how he talks about that.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: So he admitted to tying her down at least twice,
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: though he flatly denied having sex with her while she
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: was restrained. Okay, buddy, it was really a desperate attempt
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: to maintain some shred of decency in his own warped
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: mind like, oh, I tied her down, but I would
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: never cross the line. And okay, buddy, liar, liar.
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: Pant When as how many times he assaulted her? Great's
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: answer was big, saying a few times. He confirmed it
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: happened in the bedroom. But when Captain Lee began to
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: pivot the conversation towards the rest of the house, asking
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: if Great had been upstairs, his demeanor shifted. It's hard
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: to get.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: Up there now. It was a calculated lie. Great knew
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: exactly what was upstairs. He knew Liz Griffith was in
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: the closet. But of course, in the same breath that
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: he denied accessing the second floor, he insisted to Captain
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: lay that he truly cared about Jane Doe. I know,
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: I tie people down to my couch in bed because
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: I care about them and you know, hit them in
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: the face and everything. Yeah, that's what.
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: Captain Laye knew. The marriage excuse was a fantasy. He
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: knew that hard to get upstairs comment was a lie.
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: He was watching the predator try to bargain for his life,
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: unaware that the forensic team was patiently waiting to open
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: the very door. Great claim, too, was too difficult.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: To reach right now. Probably we probably should have said
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: this earlier, but it's a detail often lost in the timeline.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: But at this exact moment in the interview, police had
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: not yet stepped foot inside the house of Covert, with
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: the exception of getting Jane out and clearing the house.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: The search warrants were still being drafted, so they were
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: operating on Jane's testimony and Captain Lay's instincts alone. So
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: if you're a little bit like, wait, didn't know, I mean,
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: let's be honest, they probably they knew from the smell.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: They're they're officers, all right, They've probably smelled it in
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: their life or in their careers, you know. But so
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: he he knows this is missing, Captain Lee. He thinks
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: Sean probably had something to do with it, based on
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: talking to Jane Doe, but he doesn't have that confirmed
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: as they haven't actually located the bye yet in their timeline,
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: right oh.
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: Captain Lay highly suspected that Liz's body may have been
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: the cause of the undeniable smell officers had reported in
• 54:02
  Speaker 4: that yellow house. Great knew it too, and what followed
• 54:06
  Speaker 4: was cold, calculated game of cat and mouse with Great
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: using his honest confession about Jane Doe as a shield
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: to hide the murder upstairs.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: So Captain Leigh began to circle, yes, Great if he
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: knew anyone else from Jane Doe's apartment complex. Great easily
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: offered up to male names, acting the part of that
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: helpful witness. But then Ley dropped the name that had
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: been driving the Ashland police for weeks? Do you know
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth Griffith?
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: Great didn't flinch. He admitted he met her once. He
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: described her as a big girl with blonde hair, and
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: recounted a sunny, mundane afternoon where he and Jane Doe
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: were playing badminton outside, and he told Lay that Liz
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: had approached them and talked to non stop, adding with
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: a dismissive chill, that he was not attracted to her.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: He says that a lot. He said that a lot. Now.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: Great even admitted he knew she was missing, claiming Jane
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Doe was the one who had told him about the disappearance.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: So he was panning himself as a bystander in all this,
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: just another person in town hearing the local gossip. So
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: Captain Lay pressed harder.
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: He emphasized the urgency, reminding Great that Elizabeth had psychological
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: issues and needed her medication. He was given He was
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: given Great an out, a chance to be the hero
• 55:46
  Speaker 4: who helps find a vulnerable woman, but Great held the line.
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: He flatly denied any further contact with her. It's very
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: important we find her, Sean. If you've seen her, it
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: would be helpful.
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: So Gray tells him he hasn't and tries to deflect
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: the mountain pressure by pivoting back to the one crying
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: he had already admitted to so. While Leigh asked them
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: how he felt about what he had done to Jane Doe,
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: Great didn't express remorse for her pain. Instead, he expressed
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: self pity because of course he would, stating he didn't
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: think she would ever forgive him, which is you know
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: this man is of gross.
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: Every time Lay tried to pull the conversation back to Elizabeth,
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: Great retreated into the relationship drama with Jane Jane Doe.
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: He was trying to keep the investigation contained to the
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: bedroom on the first floor, despite desperate to keep Captain
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: Lay from mentally climbing the stairs to their closet.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: So Gray continued to posture as a concern partner, asking
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: Captain Lay if Jane go was Okay, look at him
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: so concerned. What a great guy.
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: Huh, that's what I have to say to Sean Ray.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: But as Lay listed the physical evidence, like the bruises
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: covering her body, Grat began to fill in the blinks
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: with a cold, with the cold mechanical details of his planning.
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: He described his dessert disturbing process of restraint. He told
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: Captain Lay that he used his hands, scarves, and clothing
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: to ensure she couldn't move. He admitted that when he
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: left the house to walk to the VP for his
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: marble black one hundreds, he tied her directly to the mattress.
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: It was it was obvious he wasn't just getting carried away.
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: He was securing a prisoner.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's not how that works. Shown. So now,
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: when Captain Lay pushed for the exact moment the abduction began,
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: great answer stripped away any lingering doubt about his intent.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: I didn't know there was any I mean, there wasn't.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: Only for him. His only line that had any doubt.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: He was in the wrong, heir, I.
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: Mean, even his admission or of what he did is dismissive.
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: He is dismissive.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: About it. I abducted her, so what, it's fine. She
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: wanted it like they always do.
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: Okay, so she didn't know, but she didn't mean it.
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: No, no, right, He admitted the kidnapping started on Sunday evening,
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: and then he dropped a chilling detail quote I planned
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: it the night before quo, meaning this wasn't a spontaneous
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: argument like he initially claimed. Instead, it was a calculated hunt.
• 58:59
  Speaker 4: Quote. I wanted to hold her. She didn't want to
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: be held. I didn't want to let her go. In
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: Great's mind, holding her was a justification for a forty
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: hour nightmare. Captain Lay, however, was done with the euphemisms.
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: He forced Great to look at the legal and moral
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: reality of his actions.
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: You had sex with her against her will? What do
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: you call that.
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: Rape?
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: And for a moment the mask slipped and Great used
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: the word he had admitted the first time, was against
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: her will, recounting how Jane Doe told him plainly and
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: repeatedly that it wasn't right. But almost immediately he began
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: to backpedal, because of course he did.
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: He described touching her belly, trying to talk her into it,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: and then contradicting his own admission of rape just seconds earlier,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 4: he claimed the actual intercourse intercourse wasn't against her will
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: because she had stopped resisting.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: As that if that fucking matters, it doesn't fucking mean.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 4: Maybe because she didn't want to get hit.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: Right, or maybe she was past that. We don't know.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: We don't know what all he did. Remember he gave
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: her like some muscle relaxers or something, you know, like
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: geese cheese. It was a classic tactic, blaming the victim's
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: exhaustion for his own violence. Now Lay didn't let it slide.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: He called out the contradiction, pressing Gray on the specifics
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: of the trauma, the anal penetration with his fingers and
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: the forced oral six quote when you came in her mouth?
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: Was that against her will? Sorry for the vulgarity, but
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: it's a very important point that he's trying to drive
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: down drive home to Grey. Really, was that against sir will?
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: Because I'm pretty sure it was.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: Interrogation continued as Captain Lay tried to tweet piece together
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: the timeline of how Sean Gray ended up in that
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: house on covert Court. Conversation drifted into the mundane jobs, food, habits,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 4: but always circled back to the dark reality of what
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: had happened behind those closed.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: Doors, so Lay began digging into Great's recent history. Gray
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: admitted to breaking into a house near the Gray Mill
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: and spending time in a fort he had built in
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: the woods, as a grown man does. Of course, He
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: eventually migrated to the Yellow House on Covert Court around
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: the fourth of July, crawling through a window to claim
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: this space as his own.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: As Lay looked for a trigger, something that might explain
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: the sudden escalation of violence, he asked about Great's life.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: Great mentioned working at a sale a lot for a
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: few weeks and spoke about a woman named Margaret who
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 4: was nice to him. But when the conversation turned to
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: his stress, his answers became muffled and lost the recording.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: So Lay left the room, returning with the coffee that
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Greate had requested. This small act of service seemed to
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: loosen Great's tongue, but his perspective remained warped. He told
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: the captain that he had shared something wonderful with Jane Doe,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: a statement that stood in horrific contrast to his next admission.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: Ley didn't let the wonderful comment hang in the air.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: He pressed for the truth about violence. Gray finally admitted
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: to hitting Jane Do with a closed fist. Then he
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: described the process of the sexuals with a detached cruelty.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: He admitted that Jane Doe didn't want to perform oral sex,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: and when Lay asked how he forced her, Great's answer
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: was chillingly simple. He told her to, but it wasn't
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: just by words. Quote. She was tied down by her legs.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: I grabbed her head and forced her. She was trying
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: to pull back and I was rough. Oh yeah, what
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: shared something wonderful? Indeed, Aunt Sean does this happened.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: On Sunday, the very first night. Afterward, he tied her
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: up again to walk to the circle k for cigarettes.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: In Grape's mind, these were just details of a complicated
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 4: weekend as Great sat there sipping his coffee talking about
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: wonderful moments and forced acts and the same breath. The
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: police were anxiously waiting to get into that Yellow house
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 4: for a search wine to collect everything they needed to
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: put him away for life.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: So Leigh circled back to Elizabeth. He asked Great point
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: blank where they were going to find her, and Great,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: still playing the role of the helpful observer meos that
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: she probably wasn't at her apartment, which is weird for
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: somebody who said he didn't know her, right, why would
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: he think that? When asked where she was, his answer
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: was a hollow I don't know. He even tried to
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: feign empathy, asking if she had any family, a rather
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: chilling question coming from the man who had ended her life.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: But Ley pushed further, asking if there had been a
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: three way sexual encounter between Great, Jane Doe, and Elizabeth.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: Great used Jane Doe's values as a shield, claiming she
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: didn't want to have sex until marriage. Isn't that moral
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: boundary applied to his actions?
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 4: Like?
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, now you're gonna be like, no, Jane wouldn't do that.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: She didn't. Oh really, Sean? Really okay? So you were
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: aware of this boundary she had? Okay?
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 4: Cool?
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: So they warned him. He spoke about the other people
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: missing in the areas where Great had been staying. He
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: told him that if a connection was found, his issues
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: were going to get much much bigger. Quote, is there
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: anything you want to tell the truth about, Sean? Because
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: if we find you're connected to these other disappearances, everything changes.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 4: But great, wouldn't budge on Elizabeth. Instead, he retreated into
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: the details of his assault on Jane dal almost as
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: if he were boasting. He talked about having sex for hours.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: He confirmed the presence of vasolene in the house for lubrication,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: admitted that when he didn't use that, he used to spit,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: though he tried to claim Jane Doe was the one
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: who did it, continuing his narrative of her compliance.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: Now, the wonderful connection Grake claimed to have with Jane
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: Doe was dismantled by the physical evidence. Lee confronted him
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: with the duct tape. She says, you put duct tape
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: over her mouth? Why the tape?
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 4: Sean Gray confirmed it and almost admitted to showing her
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: a stun gun. He was describing a torture chamber as
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 4: if it were a series of home improvement projects. He
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 4: denied that tying her up was for access to sex cleaning. Instead,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 4: it was to keep her from leaving while he went
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 4: for cigarettes.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: Or slept, which is exactly what you do when you're
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: in a loving relationship with somebody. You know, I have
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: a special connection, right.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 4: I just don't know how delusional one person can freaking be.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: No I don't think he's that delusional. I think he
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: knows exactly what he's doing. But he's an idiot. So
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: you're not being honest with me, Sean, I know you're not.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: Leay's voice was steady, but the pressure was mounting. He
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: knew that the duct tape, the stun gun, and the
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: tied up legs weren't the only secrets in the house.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: He was looking at a man who would admit to
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: rape and kidnapping while still trying to protect more secrets,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: and those secrets of the bodies in the house.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: Well, that's the end of Captain Lee's interview with Sean
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 4: grat as the lead detective Kim Major entered the room
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 4: to take her shot at the sick bastard love seeing that. First,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 4: we want to take a fast forward to some of
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 4: Captain Leay's testimony at Shaun Great's trial and during his
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: cross examination by defense attorney Ralph Whitney. Whitney pointed to
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: pages fifty one and fifty five of the transcript, what
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 4: was happening during these silences, Captain.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: He was thinking, calculating his answers.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 4: Then Whitney brought up the sound of Great's voice. The
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: sniffling and the crying captured on this tape. This wasn't
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 4: during the discussion of the kidnapping. It was when Captain
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: Lay had pinned him down on the subject of Elizabeth
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 4: Griffith and through the tears he didn't describe as he
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 4: didn't describe a struggle or confessed to a murder. Instead,
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: he spoke of Elizabeth, of Elizabeth in past tents. He
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 4: said she was set free, that she had no more problems,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 4: and that she doesn't have to cry anymore. Let's hear
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: a brief moment from Captain Lay on the stand. Yes,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 4: bring yourself too, because he gets emotional.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: She's saying, he tighter down to a bed. I mean,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: what's the deal with straps on the mattresses?
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: Next time? Next time?
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 6: At one time, he said to you, and when you've
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 6: been talking with him about Reference's answer was she set free.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: No more problems, and she didn't have to cry. And
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 4: the answer, what did you think at that time when
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 4: he told him that I thought he killed her? Sir?
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a confession wrapped in the language of
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: a savior. Great was still trying to frame his violence
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: as a form of mercy, even as he wept for
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: the girl he claimed to have liberated from her tears.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: He never used the word kill, but at that moment,
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: Captain Lane knew that the search for a missing woman
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: had officially become a recovery mission. And again, if you
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: didn't catch the first episode, we know that because of
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: Lizz's illnesses, she would call the police nine one one
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: several times, and they knew that everybody knew who she
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: was there. You know, they didn't think Liz was a
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: minister society, but they knew she had mental health issues
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: and she was a staple in the community. You know,
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they were like, oh, there's Liz Colin again.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: But they knew she wasn't violent, are harmful, you know
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: that she needed some extra humor and care, you know,
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: to work with her. When she did call with you know,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: oh it's you know, and I'm sure that they were
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: heartbroken to learn. Lots of people were heartbroken to learn
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: what happened to Elizabeth.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: You've seen Captain lay there. He's got emotional on the stand.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: I did let me go back. I gotta let the
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: dogs soun.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry, that's okay, I will go on.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: It's a picture of you.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 4: The entrance of Detective Kim Major marked a turning turning
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 4: point in the investigation. When she walked into the station
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 4: at September thirteenth, twenty sixteen, she wasn't just another officer.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: She was one of the most qualified people in the
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 4: state to sit across from a man like Sean Grat.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 4: Major didn't just stumble into this role. Her entire twenty
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 4: year career prepared her for the exact moment. A top
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 4: gun graduate of the Police Academy with a degree in
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 4: criminal justice from Ashland University, she spent two decades sharpening
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: her instincts. She worked three years at TIH I can't
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 4: say this word Tuscarus Scarst County Sheriff's Office, Sorry, Ohio's
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 4: Ohioan's I mispronounce that, and another three years in child
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 4: Protective Services, a role that taught her the nuances of
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 4: kim of a victim trauma. She had joined the Ashland
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 4: Police Division in nineteen ninety seven, where she became a
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 4: specialist in crisis negotiation and forensic interviewing. With over two
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 4: thousand cases involving involving violent crimes and sexual offenses under
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 4: her belt, Major was an expert in the language of predators.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 4: When Major first sat down, her expectations were grounded in
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 4: the routine based on the initial report from John Doe.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 4: She expected another local sex offender, a common, if tragic
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 4: occurrence in police work. She had no way of knowing
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 4: that she was about to engage in a thirty three
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 4: hour psychological marathon. Over the course of the eight grueling days,
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 4: Major would be the one to peelback the layers of
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 4: Sean Gret's psych psych.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, she did.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 4: She wasn't just asking him questions. She was building a
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 4: bridge of trust with a man who'd spent his life
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 4: destroying it. While the rest of the world was just
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 4: beginning to hear the name Sean Gray, Major was already
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 4: deep inside his mind, realizing with every passing hour that
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 4: the man across from her wasn't just a kid her.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 4: She was sitting across from a serial killer, and the
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 4: clock was ticking to find out just how many names
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 4: were on the list before the forensic teams found them first.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: Now, the psychological chess match between Detective Kim Major and
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: Sean Grat began with a calculated gesture of trust. Major
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: knew that if she treated him like a monster, he
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: would hide behind his cage, but if she treated him
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: like a man, he might just let her in.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 4: The first thing Major did was remove his restraints. She
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 4: wanted him relaxed, to feel like this was just a
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: conversation as opposed to an interrogation. As the cuffs came off,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 4: she took him in. He was physically fit, but carried
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 4: the grime of a man who had been living in
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 4: the shadows, unwashed and disheveled. But it was his eyes
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 4: that stayed with her. They were piercing, startling blue that
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 4: seemed to look right through the room.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: And wait, no, he did not smell good, because they
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: made note of how Jane Doe smelt because he was
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: unbathed and everything, and she.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 4: Don't know that last forty hours I imagine he didn't
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 4: shower ever.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: Because there was a bandoned house. They didn't have running
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: water used like a bucket or something that they like.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: Ooh growth. Now, up until this moment, Sean Gray was
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: a ghost to the Ashland Police. At first, Major thought
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: he was again just another sex offender, a type that
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: she had interviewed hundreds of times. But then he started
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: to talk and the type quickly vanished. He described to
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: her having a hunger to kill. It wasn't a choice,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: but a physical need that had been gnawing at him
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: from the inside out, which I also think is bullshit,
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: But that's what he says, so we'll go with it.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: I guess.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 4: Major, the expert negotiator, leaned into the role of empathetic listener.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 4: She didn't recoil, but instead she began to befriend him.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 4: She spoke about how everyone makes mistakes and praised the
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 4: honesty he had shown with Captain Leigh. She acknowledged the
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 4: tears he had shed just moments before, framing his violent
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 4: history as a burden as he was carrying. She says,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 4: I can see that you're hurting, Sean.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: I'm struggling. Oh he's struggling, guys, he's struggling. This is
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: why we can't be an investigator. I'd be like, the
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: fuck you are. I'm just kidding. I would totally be
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: bad cap Now, in that exchange, the trap was set.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: Major validated his plan to get to know his truth
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: by acknowledging his struggle. She gave him permission to stop
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: being a suspect and start being a storyteller. Sean Gray
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: was ready to feed his hunger one more time, not
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: by killing, but by finally telling someone exactly what he
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: had done.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 4: As Detective Major later described it, Grat didn't offer a
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 4: full confession all at once. Of course, he revealed his
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 4: crimes in careful, thin layers, testing Major's reaction. With every sentence,
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 4: Great painted a picture of a man with almost no
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 4: one in his life. He claimed that Jane Doe was
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 4: the only person he could he was truly close to, so.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: He recounted their meeting at the CROC Center, where she
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: volunteered sharing lunch in a placement for community and safety.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: Major saw this meeting as a perfect storm of sorts,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: the intersection of Great's predatory hunger and Jane Doe's angelic
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: and trusting nature.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 4: Great's fixation on janejel Jane Doe, Well, that's a tongue
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 4: twister for me. I apology was deeply delusional. He spoke
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 4: at length about his plans to marry her, convinced that
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 4: they shared a profound bond. However, the reality was completely different.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 4: Jane Doe told the Detective Major during their interview that
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 4: she considered Daniel from the Bible, Yes that one, to
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 4: be her spiritual husband and that she had no intention
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 4: of ever being in a relationship with or marrying Sean
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 4: grat Right.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: You remember when she was telling Ley like I was
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: bringing up her ex that's Daniel from the Bible, So
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: he's a She was a very religious woman.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 4: Yes, she was is.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: He initially tried to frame their encounter as a consensual relationship,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: claiming Jane Doe wanted the sexual component, but Major pushed
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: for the specifics of the day she arrived at the house.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: Jane had reported that Great was pacing back and forth,
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: the sign of mounting tension. Major asked what he was
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: thinking in those moments, and he confessed that his heart
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: was pounding and he was contemplating what to do before
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: he finally moved towards her, ripping the Bible out of
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: her hands.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 4: The narrative of a willing partner fell apart under the
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 4: weight of Great's own admissions. He claimed Jane was horny
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 4: that day and wanted to marry him, but he couldn't
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 4: hide the physical reality of her rejection. When he made
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 4: his move, she pushed him away. Great's response to her
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 4: rejection was a chilling look into his ego. He told
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 4: Major that he wasn't used to being pushed away. Jane
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 4: Joe's refusal was a disruption of the fantasy he had
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 4: built of the two of them.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: Now, Detective Major didn't attack great delusions. Instead, she used
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: them as a wedge to separate his fantasy from the
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: forensic reality. Major began by addressing the relationship Great claim
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: to have. Now. She didn't call him a liar. I
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: would have, but she's obviously more qualified to do this
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: than I am, because I mean, like your liar. She
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: simply held up a mirror to Jane Doe's reality. She
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: reminded Great that Jane Doe's boundaries were impenetrable. She had
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: given him her phone number and he was never allowed
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: inside her apartment. To Jane Doe, he wasn't a fiance.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: He was just a mirror acquaintance, not special to her,
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: not at.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 4: All at all. Major then pivoted to Great's emotional state,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 4: the tactic designed to lower his guard. She told him
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 4: she could see he was torn and asked if she
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 4: wanted to, if he wanted his life to be better,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 4: that he was hurting, and that maybe all of this
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 4: was a mistake. Sean said that he wasn't. It wasn't
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 4: his intention, but recognized that sorry isn't going to fix it.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: You don't say Sean, you don't say oh wow, Grey says,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: I think he had a fantasy about himself, that being
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: that all women want him. I mean, yeah, I think
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: so as well. I mean, listen, he was a fairly
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: good looking guy with blue eyes. I mean he was
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: not unattractive. I'll be honest. Is he the most dashing?
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 4: No?
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: But you know, I'm sure lots of women did find
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: him attractive in that sense, but they probably talked to
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: him for two minutes and got the hev gds and
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: got out of there. Because you hear.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 4: Him talk, in my opinion, he becomes unattracted.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say, yeah, like as soon as he
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: starts speaking like h never mind, Nope, nope, I don't
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: think so.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 4: I can hear in his voice every time I heard
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 4: him speak during the trial, during the interrogation, I hear this.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 4: He just thinks he's more than me. He thinks higher
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 4: of himself. Oh yeah, just hear it in his voice.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 4: Obviously didn't see it too.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a huge ego, huge narcissism. This guy like radiates
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: out of the friggin room. Now, m sorry, so Great
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: was beginning to realize the gravity of his situation. I
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: don't know why he didn't already know that with the
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: dead bodies there, but okay, admitting that he had gone overboard,
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: Major sees that moment of vulnerability. She challenged his version
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: of the violence by bringing the victim's pain into the room.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: While Great claimed he only hit her once, Major painted
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: a picture of a woman hurt all over as she
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: was terrified of being bound and helpless every time he
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: walked out of the door.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 4: To get the why, Major invited Great to explain his stressors.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 4: She framed his violence as a reaction to external pressures,
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 4: give him a reason to confess. Great took to be,
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 4: of course, the weight of child support in bringing up his.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: Mother, Like, let's get out of here, sir, child's child support.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: It's what made me kill all these women. Get the
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: fuck out of here, Sean, You're ridiculously this. This right
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: here is also why I don't believe all of his
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: other bullshit story about his mom about this happened this, No,
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: not at all, because that doesn't even make sense as
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: a reason. I mean, nothing ever makes sense really for
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: these kinds of things. And I understand that, but like,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: what are you fucking kidding me? So I don't believe
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: most of what he says.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 4: But she's very kind, But you're responsible for your own.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: Actions, exactly, exactly exactly. You know, you probably can't pay
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: your child' support because you can't get a job because
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: of all the stupid shit you did, because you're a
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: fuck wagon? So whose fault is that? Though? It's again
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: your fault, Sean for you know, abusing women, trying to
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: kill them, hiding on their couches, writing letters to cats, Like,
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: it's your fault. You're here, not your mommy's. Okay, you're
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: a grown Ask me, how does he he's like, what
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: forty four or better? Yeah, he's in his early forties
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: when he gets Cotton arrested. Now, the interrogation room became
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: a place of terrifying contradictions as Great continued to layer
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: his delusions over the brutal reality of the kidnapping and
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: rape Detective Major. Ever, the expert used Great's own warped
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: sense of morality to draw out the truth. Fam Sayslama,
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: fuck wagon. Is that one word or two? I just
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: love you, honestly. If I could put the word fucking
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: anything you know, I'm gonna say it. I use it
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: as one word in case you're wondering for the longest
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: spelling being into one work.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 4: I love it.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: Fuck face, fuck wow. I'll have to throw a fuck
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: face in here for Lady and Greg because I know
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: it's her favorite.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 4: Major kept the focus on Jane Doe's pankies, urging Great
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 4: to man up and be honest. As he spoke. The
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 4: wonderful connection he claimed they shared was replaced by a
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 4: description of violent struggle. Great admitted that when Jane fought
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 4: his advances, even trying to kick him and defend herself,
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 4: the situation shifted.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: She didn't ask him why he decided not to kill
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: Jane and the act of strangulation. Great admitted he contemplated
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: killing her, but something made him stop. To him, she
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: was different. He explained that from the moment he met
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: Jane Doe, he had decided he was going to take
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: her for three days, as one does when you meet somebody.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: You know what, I'm going to keep you in my house.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 4: If you're in a relationship, that's called a ghetaway. It's
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 4: not called kidnapping.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: Just saying yeah, yeah, this is why women are weird
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: out by you because it's it's not normal.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 4: One of the many disturbing manipulation manipulation tactics Great like
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 4: to use was faith. He repeatedly referenced God in Jesus
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 4: to frame his violence as spirit as a spiritual mission,
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 4: even telling Jane Doe that God told him to do this.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: To her, that son of a bitch? How dare you?
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: How very you now? And confronted that he forced her
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: into sex, his justification was almost beyond belief. He felt
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: that quote she needed it. Wow. While Jane was counting
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: the second, praying for a way out, we heard her,
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: We heard her voice. Gray was trying to stop the clock.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: He would promise her just one more time and I'll
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: let you go. But he admitted to Major he simply
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: didn't want the fantasy to end. Quote. I wasn't ready
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: for her to go. Time was going by too fast.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 4: I'm sure Jane did not feel that way. No, the
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 4: physical evidence of his care for her was even more grotesque.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 4: He admitted to putting makeup on her face, not to
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 4: make her feel beautiful, but to hide the dark bruises inflicted.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 4: He convinced himself that she would give him grace and
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 4: that she would that she loved him, mistaking her survival
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 4: tactics for genuine affection. This dumbass, m M, he's so
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 4: gross fought.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: You gonna call him a fuck wagon? You can, It's fine,
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: He's a wagon. He is a fuck wagon right now.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: As the three days came to an end, Great's exit
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: strategy was a basically a scorched art scenario. He told
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: Major he was going to keep her for just one
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: more day, then set the house on fire, and wait
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: at the police station for his inevitable arrest.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 4: I think last part true, he wasn't going to do that.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: The last part no, The other part probably he probably
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: will learn later on, like he was going to turn
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: and him. I am such a good citizen. I was
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: gonna and after I was done raping and murdering her
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: and committing arson, I was gonna turn myself.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 4: Why would you do that? Why?
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: Why would I not? What's okay?
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 4: Sir? I mean, how about the other times you did
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 4: it and you just don't know about it yet? Why
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 4: didn't you admit to those? Why didn't you turn yourself
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 4: in about those?
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: Right? Jane Doe is so courageous and I hope she
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: is doing as well as she can.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 4: Her best life. Mm hmm, despite.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: I wish her all the healing.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 4: Yes, mm hmm. He is garbage. Oh it's me. What
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 4: are we doing?
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: What are we doing here? We don't know, we don't
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: know what we're doing.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 4: The bridge of trust between Detective Major and Sean Gray
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 4: was growing stronger as the minutes ticked by, so Major
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 4: decided to shift her focus entirely to Elizabeth Liz Griffith.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 4: Maybe he had her, maybe he didn't. Maybe she wasn't alive.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 4: Maybe she was. But if she was, then but if
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 4: she was, the clock was ticking. She played on own Sorry, sorry,
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 4: She played on the only thing she thought might reach Great,
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 4: his desire to be seen as a good man who
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 4: had simply made a mistake.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: Can I do quotations with just my middle fingers a
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: good man? Because that's how I feel about that.
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 4: Sure, sure, he's a fuck wagon.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: She told him. She knew he had a conscience. She
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: leaned into the idea that Liz and Jane Doe were
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: two different scenarios, allowing Great to maintain his delusion than
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: his treatment of Doe was somehow special or romantic, while
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth was something else.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 4: Great responses were bizarre mixture of denial and admission. Of course,
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 4: he wouldn't say he killed her, but he spoke of
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 4: her in a way that left no doubt. He said
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 4: she was better off now and that he hoped she
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 4: was in a better place. It was the language of
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 4: a man who had already stood over her lifeless body.
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: So MegaR then pressed harder. She told him she knew
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: Liz was dead. She didn't ask if it happened, She
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: just asked where she was. She promised Great that she
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: wouldn't leave his side, offering him a twisted form of
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: companionship exchanged for the truth. And Grace sat there, sniffling
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: and his top gun interrogator, wearing him down second by second.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: He wasn't the typical criminal she dealt with, and she
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: told him that, feeding his ego desperately trying to get
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: to the location of Lizz's body.
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 4: It wasn't a no, it wasn't a it was a not.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 4: Yet Great was standing on the edge of the truth,
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 4: hovering between the safety of his lies and the finality
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 4: of a confession. Major stayed right there with him, refusing
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 4: to let the silence settle, pushing him toward the right thing,
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 4: until the weight of the secret became too heavy to carry.
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: And then the psychological Dan finally broke. In a chilling
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: and disturbing moment of clarity, Sean Gray stopped playing the
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: role of nice guy and began to reveal the true
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: scale of his path of destruction. Quote. I may not
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: be able to take you to her, but maybe someone else.
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 2: The air in the room changed, but Major, ever, the
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: professional interviewer, didn't flitch. She asked the question that every
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: investigator dreads. How many are there? I don't know, depending
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: on how much you say are many. It was his
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: first admission of being a serial killer. Great then resigned
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: himself to his fate. Quote, I guess I'm ready to
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: go ahead and get my lethal injection, but I will
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: tell you everything first.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 4: I'll feel sorry for you, Sean. He started with a
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 4: name Major hadn't even heard yet. He told her about
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 4: a nut in nut his that's his word, his words,
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 4: not ours, in Mansfield, Ohio, a woman named Candace Cunningham.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 4: He said she had been gone for a long time,
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 4: her body left in the woods. Major realized the foot
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 4: floodgates were open, but she didn't let him stop she
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 4: pressed again, who else, Great says, the house where it
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 4: came from? Who else? He says, the house where I
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 4: came from. Major's voice remained steady. She knew she was
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 4: recording a death warrant. She asked if it was Liz
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 4: and where she was. As Gray broke down into sobbing
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 4: nearly unintelligible breaths, he confirmed that while he was eating, sleeping,
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 4: and praying with Jane Doe on the first floor, Liz
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 4: Griffith's body was just a few feet above their heads,
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 4: hidden in a closet beneath a pile of laundry.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: Detective Major, maintaining her role as the support of listener,
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: returned with snacks and drinks small comforts to keep the
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: conversation flowing as Great began to map out the final
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: moments of Liz Griffith.
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 4: Major started the conversation with the fact that Liz had
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 4: been missing since August sixteenth. Great didn't fight her over
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 4: the date. He explained that Liz had called him late
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 4: that night because she couldn't sleep. She came over to
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 4: his house around eleven PM, bringing a game of Yachtzi.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 4: They sat there playing a game of dice in a
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 4: house with Liz having no idea that her life was
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 4: about to come to an end. It just happened. It
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 4: just reached up and just choked her.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 2: He's such a fucking liar, He described it with a
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: terrifying lack of motive. When Major pushed for details, Gray
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: admitted that, despite Liz previously mentioning suicidal thoughts, that she
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: fought for her life the moment his hands reached for
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: her throat. He told Major it happened so fast, but
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: the details he provided next suggested a much more deliberate,
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: lingering violence.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 4: In one of the most chilling moments of the entire
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 4: eight days of interrogation, Great offered to show them exactly
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 4: how he did it. Detective Evan stood in a surrogate
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 4: in as a surrogate for the victims. Great reached out
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 4: and placed his arms around Evan's neck, demonstrating grip. He
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 4: had ended at least two lives in that house. As
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 4: Sean is doing this, he recounts what had happened that
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 4: warm August night. Quote, she started flipping out, then she
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 4: fell down after she stopped breathing. I held on. I
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 4: held on until she pissed her pants.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: This guy, he admitted that when it was over, Liz
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: was left with her shirt off, claiming it had simply
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: come off during the struggle. He flatly denied having sex
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: with her, clinging to a story that Major knew was
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: likely inconsistent with the evidence. She would later testify in
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: court quote, Sometimes I felt I could confront the inconsistencies,
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: but sometimes I just had to let him go with
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: his story.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 4: She let him talk because she knew there was one
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 4: more body in that house that he hadn't accounted for.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 4: She let him talk because every story he told was
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 4: another nail in the coffin in his defense.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: So after the murder, Great stuffed Elizabeth into a closet.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: He warned Major, with a casual stomach, turning on his dye,
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: it's probably going to stink when they opened that door.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 4: But Great wasn't finished with Lis. A week after she
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 4: was deceased, he used her key to sneak back into
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 4: her apartment. He wasn't looking for money, he was cleaning
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 4: up his trail. He found one of her previous YACHTSI
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 4: score sheets and tore it up because it had his
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 4: name on it. While he was there, he treated her
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 4: home like a grocery store, stealing paper, towels, shampoo, and conditioner.
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: Now, at one of the later interrogations after the autopsy
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: of Liz Griffith, things took a grotesque turn as Detective
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: Major confronted Great with the forensic reality of the crime scene.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: Will Great tried to frame Liz's death as a sudden,
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 2: almost accidental choking. Somehow, the physical evidence in the house
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: told a far more predatory story.
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 4: Major confronted Great with a specific, disturbing discovery, a homemade
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 4: sexual device, a stick wrapped in a towel covered with
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 4: multiple condoms. The evidence suggested a level of post mortem
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 4: violation that Great desperately tried to minimize. He claimed he
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 4: used the device on Liz's mouth simply to opened her
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 4: up a little bit, because her body had gone stiff,
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 4: real fast.
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: I was just using the tools, watching the VHS tapes.
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: The condoms were mainly for me. It'll only have my
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: DNA on them. Grape finally admitted that using the rigged
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: stick was his thing, and he sat there describing his
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: process of watching old tapes and using handmade tools, crude
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: homemade tools, while the woman he had just killed lay
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: in the next room. He insisted he didn't violate her
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: after she passed, yet he couldn't explain why he felt
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: the need to force her mouth open with a condom
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: wrap device.
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 4: Major then asked Sean a question that I think many
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 4: of us have wondered. Why didn't you leave after she passed?
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 4: Why stay in the house.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I could sense her through the walls.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: So he lived in the house for weeks with her
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: body rotting just feet away, claiming he could feel her
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: presence through the plaster. He wasn't haunted by guilt. He
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: stayed in the house, eventually bringing Jane Doe into the
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: same space where Liz's sent for lack of a better
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: word still lingered, playing out a new fantasy while the
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: old ones decomposed in different levels of that yellow house.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 2: I think whatever happened between till Liz was way darker
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: than anything he ever, but we'll talk about that later.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 4: In my finale, Detective Major had already pulled the confal
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 4: Liz Griffith out of the shadows of the upstairs closet,
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 4: but her instincts told her the house on Cooler Court
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 4: hadn't given up all its secrets. After hours of peeling
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 4: back the layers of Great's mind major landon. She didn't
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 4: ask if there were more, She asked where.
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: They were, and the answer didntcome with any kind of struggle.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: Sean casually told her that there was another woman, Stacy Stanley,
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: and that she was in the basement under a pile
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 2: of trash. While Liz was hidden above them, Stacy was
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: beneath them. Great had turned the entire house into a
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: vertical tomb. How did he learn Stacy, a fifty two
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 2: year old mother and grandmother, to such a place?
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 4: Great recounted meeting her at the local BP. Stacy was
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 4: in a moment of vulnerability. She had a flat tire
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 4: and was waiting for someone to come help. Great, playing
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 4: the role of the helpful, friendly local, struck up a conversation.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 4: They talked while he asked her if she wanted to
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 4: hang out sometime, and she said sure.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: To anyone watching from the outside, it looked like a
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: chance meeting between strangers. But to Stacy Stanley, that flat
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: tire at the BP was the beginning of a trap
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: set by a man who saw her not as a
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: person in need of help, but as an opportunity to
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: feed the hunger he had described to Major just hours
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: before buck.
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 4: Him and his hunger. I can't fuck Chong Great. I know,
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 4: not fuck Chong Great, but falk Schong grey. As the
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 4: minutes ticked by in that in the investigation room, the
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 4: timeline of Stacy Stanley's finally moments began to take shape.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 4: According to Greate, the evening started with a semblance of normalcy.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 4: They were sitting side by side kissing, but when Stacy
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 4: tried to set a boundary by refusing to take things further,
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 4: the atmosphere in the room shifted instantly. Great stood up,
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 4: telling Detective Major it soured fast, and then he simply snapped.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: He claimed Stacy felt threatened and reached for the mace
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: she carried for protection. In his first version of the story,
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 2: he was by the door, but in the second he
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 2: was much closer. Stacy fought with everything she had. She
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: backhanded him and sprayed the mace, but she missed the
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: first time. The second time, though, she did hit her.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 4: Mark Sean said that he couldn't see and kept his
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 4: eyes closed, so he grabs some white cloth to help
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 4: strangle her and just kept twisting it. He used his
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 4: blindness to explain away the brutal marks the corner would
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 4: later find so that while white cloth he described was
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 4: never recovered. He admitted that he didn't stop squeezing until
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 4: he absolutely was absolutely certain she was dead.
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: So Major pressed him on the timing. Stacy had arrived
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 2: at the house at around ten pm, and by eleven
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: thirty pm she was gone in just ninety minutes. A
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: grandmother who just needed help changing her flat tire had
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 2: been silenced. Major asked Grade at what point he decided
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: he was going to kill Stacy? Did he think I
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: want to do that again?
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 4: Quote? It wasn't really planned. She just gave me flashbacks.
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 2: Her fault, her fault.
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 4: In Great's mind, Stacy Stanley wasn't a person. She was
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 4: a trigger for his own internal darkness. When Major asked
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 4: if he felt energized by the act, his answer was
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 4: another chilling part of his confession. He didn't feel a
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 4: rush or a high. He said he felt numb.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 2: Cool. Cool. Story bro Now, as the interrogation of Sean
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: Gray continued, his story regarding Stacy Stanley began to mirror
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 2: the onion peeling pattern Detective Major had identified earlier. While
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 2: he initially attempted to frame his encounter with Stacy as
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 2: a brief, consensual moment of kissing and stuff. The layers
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: were now falling away to reveal a much more violent
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 2: and predatory reality.
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 4: Major, leaning on her decades of experience with sexual offenders,
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 4: began to push into the specifics of Stacy's clothing. She
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 4: asked why, She asked what she was wearing and what
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 4: had been removed, and the kissing story vanished. Great admitted
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 4: that he hadn't just kissed her. He had taken her
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 4: to his room and forced her to perform or all sex.
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 2: Now. When Major asked him if he had sex with
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 2: her before or after she died, Sean confirmed it was before.
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 2: He described a terrifying sequence of events. They had sex,
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 2: and then a mirror fifteen minutes later, he grabbed her
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: up and choked her. The transition from a forced sexual
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 2: act to murder was almost instantaneous. I think he's a liar.
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this is where the time line becomes truly incomprehensible
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 4: for the average person. Major realized that the house on
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 4: Covert Court was a revolving door of victims. She said
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 4: to him, you've had Jane Doe since Sunday. When did
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 4: this happen with Stacy, Sean told her probably Thursday, Wow,
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 4: just another day of the week.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fine, it's not a jo think about that timeline.
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 2: On Thursday night, Great murdered Stacy and hid her body
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: in the basement, and on Sunday, three days later, he
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 2: brought Jane Doe into the same house. He was playing
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: house and thinking about marriage on the first floor, while
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: Liz Griffith lay in a closet upstairs and Stacy Stanley
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 2: lay under trash in the basement.
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 4: Disgusting even know Stacy's last name. To him, she was
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 4: a set of keys, a description of pink pants, and
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 4: a flashback that ended with his bare hands. He didn't
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 4: see as victims as people with lives and families. He
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 4: saw them as opportunities to satisfy a reoccurring urge.
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 2: Major pressed him on his motivations. She asked if it
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: was a rage, but Great's answer was far more chilling.
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: He described it as a hunger that would start growing
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 2: deep inside him. He admitted that once the urge took hold,
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: he would actively seek someone out, and he called himself
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: an opportunist, which she must certainly was.
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 4: Major challenged this by bringing up Stacy and reminding him
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 4: that she wasn't looking for a connection. She was a
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 4: woman flat tire trying to get home to her family.
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 4: Major asked what flipped the switch that led to her death.
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 2: So Great's justification for Stacy's murder was as delusional as
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 2: it was teddy. He claimed. He decided that she that
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: she was a straight up liar. Can you believe that
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: this mofo fuck wagon is accusing her of being a liar?
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 2: It's her fault She's dead. He had watched from the
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 2: shadows of the BP as a man arrived to help
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 2: Stacy change her tire. Later, when they were at the house,
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 2: Stacy made a joke about having sugar daddies, and when
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: Gray confronted her about the man who came to the BP,
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 2: Stace referred to the man as just a friend because
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: that's exactly what he was exactly. It was her son's
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: friends doing a favor for her son, not her. But
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 2: Great decided that she was lying to him. Oh wow, okay, sir, okay.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 4: In Great warped reality, a perceived lie was a capital offense.
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 4: He used her defensiveness and the fact that she maced
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 4: him as a desperate act of self defense to justify
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 4: his guilt. But during Great's trial, Detective Major was asked
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 4: to clarify a specific haunting phrase Great Edith used before
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 4: he got into the house. It was broken. Major interpreted
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 4: that to me that Stacy's fate was already sealed, that
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 4: Great already knew he was going. That was what was
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 4: going to happen before he even walked into the house
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 4: with her.
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: It was the ultimate admission of premeditation. The conversation at
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: the VP, the invitation to the house. It was all
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 2: a performance. And by the time Stacy Stanley's feet across
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: the threshold of that house on Covert Court, Sean Gray
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: had already decided. She was never walking out because she
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 2: hadn't killed. She wasn't killed because she lied. She was
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: killed because she existed in the path of a man
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 2: who had already decided to satisfy his hunger. Now, next time,
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 2: on part three of Captured the Chilling nun I on
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 2: one call that brought down Sean Grat, we're gonna hear
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 2: about the additional three victims of Sean Gray. That's right,
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: It's not just the women in Covert Cord. There are more,
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 2: and we're going to talk in about the interview that
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 2: continues from here, as well as the trial, the sentencing,
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 2: and the aftermath of the crime. So join us next
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 2: Thursday at eight pm Eastern for the final part, part
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 2: three of the of the Sean Greats story. So before
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 2: we go, do you have any closing thoughts? Aims?
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 4: I hate him, I need him so much. I I
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 4: listened to these interviews, and I I mean, I don't
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 4: really have any closing thoughts other than I don't like him.
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 4: He's where he deserves to be right now. In fact,
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 4: I probabably would say he should have gotten that lethal
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 4: injection he so I was.
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 2: Asking for right, Well, I have some closing thoughts, and
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 2: I respectfully don't want to speculate too much because I think,
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: especially with Elizabeth, a lot of people would rather like
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 2: believe that what happened is what happened. But I think
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 2: because Liz was special needs and had mental health issues,
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 2: I think the story is a lot darker and deeper
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 2: than what Sean said, and that somewhere he was ashamed
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 2: of what he did to Liz, knowing that she was
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 2: a vulnerable a very honorable part of society. Because the
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 2: story doesn't make any sense at all, Like, what do
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 2: you mean you just randomly decided No, you did it.
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 2: You're a liar. You're a liar about what happened to Liz,
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 2: And I do think it's darker. I don't want to
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 2: speculate into what I think probably went down. Out of
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 2: respect for those that love her, let's not do that.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: But I think he's lying about every single aspect when
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: it comes to Liz because he knew her for a while,
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 2: He hung out with her and talked to her more
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: than he did Jane Doe. So it's not like it
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 2: was some random thing like with Stacy Stanley, who I
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: want to talk about next. Stacy was simply in the
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 2: wrong place at the wrong time. And I do think
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: there was some truth to his statement with Major regarding
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 2: Jane Doe that I wanted her for one more day,
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 2: then I was going to the house down and then
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: turn myself in. I don't think the turn himself in
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: part was there. Part of me wonders if the reason
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: that Stacy happened is because he wanted a vehicle, he
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 2: wanted to murder her, yes, and do whatever the fuck
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 2: it is he did to her, Because I'm sure it
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: was more than what he said, because it's always more
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 2: than what Sean says. But I think he wanted her
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 2: car so that way, when he was done doing all
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: the fucker he decided to do, he had an escape route.
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 2: And I say that knowing that area like this is
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: not a very it's not a big city, all right,
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 2: it's a big town, but there's like you need a
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 2: car to go literally anywhere in Ohio. Otherwise he was
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 2: never leaving Ashland, like there's no you know, anything taking
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 2: You needed a vehicle, and he didn't have anybody, So
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 2: why not kill a woman, get your jolly's and then
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 2: steal her car. Now he did park it far away
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 2: from the house, but you know, he's probably like, well,
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 2: if nobody notices it in a while, then you know,
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 2: because why would he think that Stacy's family He knew
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 2: that Stacy's family was looking for her, but when he
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 2: first met her, I mean, Liz was missing for about
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: five weeks, four to five weeks before came out.
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 4: August sixteenth was the last time she was seen. Yeah,
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 4: so September eleventh was.
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and what we know, and I'm not going to
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 2: do spoilers for the next episode, when we learn about
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 2: his other victims, but he got away with it. Why
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 2: would he not think the same would be for Stacy Stanley.
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 2: You know, what he didn't know was that he met
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: his match with her and her family and her boys.
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: But nonetheless, I think that that was more of his motivation,
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 2: and he was like, oh, here's the opportunity to get
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 2: that car. I need to get the fuck out of here.
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 4: You know, that's a good point about the car. But
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 4: I just am very curious why it all escalated so quickly.
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 4: I mean, if you consider the other victims and the timing, well,
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 4: they weren't so quick and he got away from the areas.
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I think he was building confidence in
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 4: his getting away with it.
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 2: Well, absolutely, But in between the other times he had
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 2: periods of stability. They weren't for the women he was with,
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 2: all right, but he wasn't homeless running around.
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 4: I think he was really hoping that things with Jane
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 4: Doe was going to pan out. I mean, yeah, I
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 4: could tell that it wasn't. I mean, she was not
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 4: going to be I mean it was clear she did
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 4: not want a relationship with him.
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 2: No, I mean I asked.
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 4: He thought, I don't know. I still believe part of
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 4: me and I've said this to you and talking about
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 4: this case.
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 6: That.
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 4: I think Elizabeth was a block to Jane. Oh yeah,
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 4: in some ways Jane knew her and they lived in
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 4: the same building complex. And you know, if Elizabeth is getting,
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 4: you know, feelings for Sean, but Sean is having feelings
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 4: for Jane. He could see Elizabeth as causing problems with
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 4: that relationship with.
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 2: Jane because she's a talker, you.
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 4: Know, she she shows up when they're together, you know, you.
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 2: Know, she's very wanted her out of the way. You know,
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 2: that's what everybody said about her. She was very childlike
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 2: with a big heart. You know, she didn't know no
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 2: better to be loud and boisterous about things going around.
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 2: And he probably didn't want people like to notice him,
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 2: and she did. And remember she said to Cindy, Cindy
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 2: was under the impression that she had met a guye
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 2: that she liked, and she wanted Cindy to meat. So
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 2: I think yes, he was like, oh, you know, so
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 2: seventy seven said, you guys know what kind of car
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 2: he drove. He didn't have a car. He was homeless,
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 2: living in a house.
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 4: He did have a job of anything.
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 2: Right, But Stacy Stanley drove a mitz be she if
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 2: I remember, right, was the keys that they found that
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 2: belonged to her. So that's why I think part of
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 2: his motive for Stacy was oh look at this boom,
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 2: here I go. But remember he met her before Jane Doe.
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 2: So I wonder too, like did he like be like, okay,
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 2: I got this getaway video or vehicle, then I'm keeping
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 2: a few blocks away because that is the.
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 4: Stanley Stacy.
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 2: Stacy's on Thursday and then Jane is on Sunday. We'll
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 2: be one is the card.
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 4: I mean, he knew Jane Doe, he knew he had
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 4: known Jane Doe.
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 2: Well, he takes Jane Doe after he kills Stacy anyway, right,
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 2: so he has the car, but he doesn't want to
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 2: leave without, you know, his love for Jane Doe or something.
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know. But what I do know is that
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 2: we barely know what happened to those women, and I
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 2: think I'm sure for their loved ones and their family,
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 2: it's probably better that way to not know what he
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 2: because don't act like he was fucking kind to them,
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 2: doing a service, like when you strangle somebody that is
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 2: a very specific way to kill somebody. It says a
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 2: lot about your psychology. You know, It's not like it
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 2: was a fucking accident. You spent five minutes trying to
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 2: kill another human being who did literally nothing to you.
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 2: Pam says, I always thought Liz was opportunity. I mean,
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 2: I think that's a good thing.
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 4: I think I think this was an obstacle.
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Boy, Pam says Lama with Stacy, what are
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 2: your thoughts about the little rose faces in the truck
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 2: that tied her to the house. We talked about Amos
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 2: and I talked about this because you're a little confused
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 2: about what that meant. And then Amos found the pictures
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 2: and it was a lot of them, and I know
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: what they can be used for, But based on everything,
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 2: everything that Stacy had went through to be where she
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 2: was today, you wouldn't need that many of those. Okay.
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 2: We like to think that it was for a craft
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 2: project or something at the time, because she was she was,
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 2: you know, buying stuff for her garden. Maybe she was
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 2: doing them selling them as a fundraiser. I don't think
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 2: they were for nefarious purposes. I don't, you know, just
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 2: because of the amount she had of with the flowers
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: stelling them is all I'm saying, and like, I mean,
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 2: it was it was thousands. I do know the alternative
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 2: use fruit those sometimes, but these are not the ones
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 2: you're thinking of either, because we had the picture where
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 2: these were more like chemistry tubes as opposed to.
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 3: Pipe.
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 2: Like, I mean, you probably could you had used this
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 2: about anything, but I don't think at this point. And
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 2: that's what was going on with Stacy, and quite frankly,
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 2: I know that it is brought up. The only reason
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 2: we bring up her past of being an addict is
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 2: not to demean her. It's actually too it's so sad
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 2: because it's so hard to or overcome that battle of
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 2: addiction for people of all sorts of addiction. She overcame it,
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 2: and then this happened to her, And so the only
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 2: reason why I chose to like really bring it up
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 2: is because of that, because he took something that she
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 2: had worked so hard for, according to her sons, and
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 2: threw her away like trash, even though she was a
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 2: better person than him. Despite who gives a fuck if
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 2: she was addicted to drugs, You know what, she didn't
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 2: do go around killing fucking people. You know, I'm not
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 2: arguing with Pam. I know you feel the same, but
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 2: you know we had wondered about that too. But honestly,
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 2: the amount, it didn't really make sense. So you got
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 2: the impression they came from Sean Gray, not Stacy, because
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 2: this was scattered in the house. Oh like he put
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 2: them in her car as if he was trying to bail.
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 2: Maybe because it was aulous amounts of but but I.
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 4: Feel that they were in her trunk, in a bag,
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 4: all in the boxes and in the house. They were
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 4: in a taken out of the boxes and in a basket.
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 2: I'll be honest, And Pam's theory makes more sense to
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 2: me because listen, yes, they can be used for drugs
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 2: purposes usually that's how convenience stores sell them. Crack pipes,
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 2: as some people know them, are myth pipes this but
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 2: this was like a more like a chemistry tube kind
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 2: from we looked. But it would make more sense that
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 2: Sean either had them at the house because we do
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 2: know we haven't talked about.
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 4: Why would he put them in the trunk.
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 2: Of her car to sell, like you can sell them
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 2: for a couple bucks to addicts. He knows that lifestyle
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 2: all right, so instead of going to the corner store
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 2: to buy your because listen, you gotta pie, like, you
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 2: can't just keep the same one, you have to constantly
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 2: keep buying them and so small. Yeah, well for for
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 2: reasons I'm not gonna go.
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 4: Into I mean, I get all of that, but I yeah,
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 4: I mean it's.
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, you think like he gave her son as a
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 2: way to get in the house. Hmm maybe, but I see,
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know the love roses they do cosmic confusion,
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 2: uh in this store, because that's what I I was like,
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 2: what are the what is this? What I think it is?
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 2: And then I googled it and they were like yeah.
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 2: But then Amy showed made a picture and how many
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 2: they were, and I was like, okay, so this doesn't
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 2: make any sense why they're here. So we don't know.
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 2: We don't know if they did belong to Stacy or
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 2: if they belong to Sean that I think about it,
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 2: because listen, if you're a recovering addict, you're not gonna
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 2: want fucking possible paraphernalia around. And that's where my questions
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 2: came from, like why would you have a whole trunk
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 2: full of these? Though? Then you know, sweet little amos
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 2: over here was like, oh for arts and crafts, because
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 2: she's adorable like that, And I was like, you know what,
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 2: I like your theory better than mine, but could be
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 2: could be let us know in the comments what you
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 2: guys think about these little roses. Again, I do not
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 2: believe that she was having them for the affairs reasons.
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 2: There's nothing found in her house, or her car, or
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 2: her autopsy to suggest otherwise that she had relapsed or anything.
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 2: And I did not want to tarnish her hard work
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 2: and legacy to speculate that maybe she didn't. It's facts, autopsy, talks, ology,
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 2: all of that, and none of that happened. But it's
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 2: certainly interesting. Now you got me thinking.
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 4: Here's I can share with you guys. Lid was talking.
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 1: About Auntie carried them out for her, so because oh
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: you know what, Pam's sorry, that's a really interesting idea, Pam.
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 2: Because that's how he learned Jane dogover. He said to her,
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 2: my mom gave me some extra clothes as if like
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 2: they were going to be for like a donation or something.
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 2: And that's how he got Gene to go over, because
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 2: she wouldn't have gone over for that's not who Gene was.
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 2: So interesting, could be good thoughts. Pam was a researcher
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 2: for this, so she did a really good job with it.
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 2: Here here's oh lady in Gray wants to see. Yeah, oh,
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 2: there you are with the comment about Jane Doe. Yeah,
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 2: that's excellent.
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 4: So that was the bag in her trunk.
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 2: I always wondered if he was the guy that pulled
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 2: up to me at a gas station off seventy one. Looks
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 2: just like him, could be. I mean he frequented Marion
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 2: Mansfield Ashlyn. I mean obviously, so you're from Ohio, I
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 2: can tell. So, yeah, you know, that's right in the way,
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 2: it could be. But what did they look like out
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 2: of the the boxes?
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 4: And soon I'm getting there?
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 2: But now, so the abandoned house that he was in
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 2: did already have stuff at it. And the house was
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 2: owned by like a ministry group kind of place that
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 2: would allow like homeless people to live there or something.
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 2: That's what we learned about the house. So they could
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 2: have been stuff, you know, that was already left at
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 2: the house. Excuse me, it's very weird. I don't know
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 2: what you would use. So, oh it was Marian see
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, could be, could.
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 4: Be, And here is the picture.
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 2: Could Yeah, they were inside. You've been waiting to ask
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 2: us out and literally have a chat with us, But okay, no,
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 2: we did have a long discussion about these love roses.
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and old innocent Amy here is old Lady Amy
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 4: is like, I'm like, what.
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 2: I think The idea that they could be Shawns makes
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 2: a whole lot of sense. But then why would Okay,
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 2: so there's what they look like out of the box.
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 2: So he had that that's in the house. That basket was.
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there are a variety of colors, and.
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 2: So who knows. The love roses do perplex me, but
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 2: I don't think if it was Stacy's. I don't think
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 2: they were for nefarious purposes, which also makes me wonder
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 2: why she would accept them knowing what they could be
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 2: used for, though I don't know the details of her addictions,
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 2: so I don't want to speculate there. But then it
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 2: makes sense that they're Shawn's because the house was abandoned
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 2: with a bunch of shit left over, and he could
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 2: also sell them to you know, addicts. He did run
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 2: in those circles for many of years to get some cash.
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 2: So oh, did we mention these in the story. They
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 2: were briefly mentioned in the first episode of being in
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 2: her car what was in her car, but we did
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 2: not go into detail because I didn't want to speculate
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 2: too much about them.
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 4: We literally don't have any details on the other than
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 4: the two pictures that are part of the evidence.
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it was, So you're sticking with the Rusiga
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 2: in our house. That makes sense. I mean, it's it's
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 2: a good theory. Pam also says what was found in
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 2: the house and the car to link him, to link
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 2: her to Sean Gray, That is correct. That is what
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 2: we we talked about in episode one. So again, though,
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 2: my final thoughts for this episode is is that I
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 2: think a lot of what Sean Sean looked out a
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 2: lot of the stories of what really went down there,
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 2: and I think it's way worse, way, way worse than
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 2: what he tried to deflect from, especially with Liz, and
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, none of us want to think about those
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 2: bad things. But I don't believe he said the truth
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 2: about anything. Look at what he said about Jane Doe
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 2: that we knew was unequivocally not true, you know, and
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 2: his delusions for that. So what do you think they
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 2: would be for a handicap woman or a stranger like
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 2: way worse?
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 2: So those are my thoughts about this section next next week.
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 2: It's once you hear the other murders he's done, you'll
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 2: be like, oh, okay, yeah he probably did mean he
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 2: was going to burn the house down with all the
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 2: bodies in there. Oh yeah, he is a fuck wagon. Yeah, yes,
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 2: that's true. All right, Sorry, let's wrap her up because
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 2: I went way overboard tonight. What you asked their study? Sorry,
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 2: hold on, is there proof she actually purchased those not
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 2: that we know of or anything like that. Again, we
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 2: know that they were boxed, so the pictures of the
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 2: ones in the box are in the trunk of her car. Okay,
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 2: could have been put there by her, could have been
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 2: put there by Sean. He had access to her car
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 2: because he's the one who moved her car.
• 2:15:35
  Speaker 4: If they were his and he was setting it up
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 4: to take away mm hmm.
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 2: Or they could be Sean's. We don't know. We don't
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 2: know who they belonged to, but they're there. So yeah, no,
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 2: you guys are truly fine. All right, Let's do some
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 2: quick promos and then we're out here.
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 4: Right before we go. If you like what you've heard tonight,
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 4: be sure to follow us on all our socials and
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 4: subscribe to our YouTube channel. It's free, and if you're
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 4: listening to our podcast, please download and give us a rating.
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 4: All of that helps tremendously in getting our channel out there.
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 2: That is true. That is true. Now. Next week, as
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 2: I said on True Crime and Wine Time, we'll be
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 2: covering part three of Captured, the Call that brought down
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 2: Sean Gray on Thursday at eight pm. Again, we're going
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 2: to talk about the additional victims. We're going to hear
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 2: a lot of the victim impact statements, so probably bring
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 2: some clean extasies as well. Also, I'll be on couch
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 2: Core with Lama tomorrow at eleven am, where the Lovely
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 2: Buffy and I are diving deeper into the Laura Owen Shenanigans.
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 2: If you are listening and you don't know what that is,
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 2: find our YouTube channel for the craziest case I've ever
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 2: seen in my whole life. It's insane, it is wild.
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 2: It only continues to get worse and worse with every
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 2: episode in ways you can't imagine. But is there anything
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 2: you would like to say amos before we go or
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 2: sign off.
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 4: Nope, thank you for having me. I'm glad to be
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 4: hosting this with you. I mean, sad story, but I'm
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 4: happy to be doing it with you.
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad you are too. Everybody let her know
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 2: that she did a really good job. It's been like
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 2: years of me past during her should be like, come,
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 2: come be on camera with me.
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 4: I did it, you know, Vick. Sorry, you finally did it.
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 4: You can mark that off your bucket list debt.
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 2: I did it. Well. Thank you all for being with
• 2:17:46
  Speaker 2: us tonight. I will see you all next week. We
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 2: will see you all next week. Maybe Terrrio's drop. I
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 2: don't know how she's feeling. We'll see. But until next time,
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 2: everyone stay safe and go forth and be amazing. All right,
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 2: buys say