Latest / A New Angle / Empowering Montana with Heidi Wallace and Rajiem Seabrook (Part Two)

Transcript

Empowering Montana with Heidi Wallace and Rajiem Seabrook (Part Two) · A New Angle

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: This is A New Angle, a show about cool people doing awesome things in and around Montana.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Justin Angle.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: This show is supported by First Security Bank,
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: Blackfoot Communications and the University of Montana College of Business.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Hey folks, welcome back and thanks for tuning in.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's been a remarkable few weeks.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: We're living through a series of events that are at once shocking yet unsurprising.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: There is so much to think and feel and perhaps say about this period of time and
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: its antecedents,
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: but my overwhelming sense right now is one of deep need to lower the temperature.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: An assassination attempt on a former president and a current nominee from one of
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: our two major political parties represents a tragic failure of civil society.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: When it comes to navigating disagreement, we really only have two options, conversation or violence.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking a lot about how we can get better at the former to avoid more of the latter.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: And over these next several months before the elections,
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: we'll be doing our best to focus on good faith conversations with people interested
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: in solving problems.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: When it comes to both the assassination attempt and President Biden's withdrawal
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: from the race,
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: these are just sad moments.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Take time to sit with that sadness.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Seek out and be thankful for sources of useful information,
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: like what you can depend on from Montana Public Radio and Yellowstone Public Radio.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Do yourself and your fellow citizens a favor and try to get off the engagement by enragement treadmill.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's not good for you.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's not good for any of us.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Think of ways to make politics less interesting and therefore less volatile.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: It shouldn't be about the team you're on and whether that team is winning or losing.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: It should be about solving problems and advancing our shared interest.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: One space for a new angle to dip into the news cycle and topics like these is our
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: monthly Incentives and Instincts series with Bryce Ward.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Next week's episode with Bryce focuses on both the rise of political violence,
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: but also the increase in bipartisan collaboration on certain topics in Congress.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: It was recorded prior to the assassination attempt,
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: yet the topic has a new sort of resonance in the wake of that horrific event.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: We've also started bringing listener questions into those conversations as well.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: So please hit us up with your questions.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: You can submit a question over at our website, anewanglepodcast.com.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm also doing some regular writing over there at anewanglepodcast.com where I try
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: to make sense of these and other forces in a broader context.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: We cover a wide range of topics and are always happy to get suggestions and questions.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: So if you find what we're up to useful, please consider a subscription.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so onto today's episode.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's part two of my conversation with Heidi Wallace and Regime Seabrook of Empower Montana,
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: an organization dedicated to creating a more just and inclusive world through
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: leadership development and education.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: Heidi serves as executive director and Regime is director of equity and impact.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: The inspiration,
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: honestly,
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: for me is our young people,
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: they are so fierce and aware and,
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: they see the inequities,
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: they see where things need to change and they,
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: they feel that they can contribute to change.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: I love this conversation for many reasons, but I'll highlight just two here.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: First, Empower Montana has been at this work for a long time, 25 years.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: They know the difference between saying the right things and doing the actual work.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Second,
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: it was a chance to hear two committed progressives grapple with whether or not our
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: society is actually making progress.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks again to these two leaders for a great conversation.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: We'll pick it up with Heidi Wallace and Rajim Seabrook right now.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Every, every group we work with is inspiring and, you know, positive.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: We had a longer,
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: in the past working with the Missoula police department and that work,
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: they created an equity team that was committed to just continuing these
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: conversations internally.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: We love when those things happen.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: we're doing that right now with the American Red Cross for all of Montana,
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: Idaho,
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: and Eastern Oregon.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: I always liken the Red Cross to police, fire department, EMTs.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: By the time you see them, it's either you've done something to someone or something's happened to you.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're in some sort of crisis.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: Some sort of crisis.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: And places like the American Red Cross wanting to be in communities outside of
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: emergency or disaster services and us helping them understand that.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: You can't just come into communities and just say, hi, we're the Red Cross, show up and like us.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: There's ways to integrate yourselves that makes you more part of the community and
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: it's not just an entity serving something.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: Or like Heidi said, here's a construct, fit our box.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: No, we're going to teach you how to morph your box to the needs of the people.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: So when you go to Missoula,
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: you're going to deal with people in Missoula differently than you're going to deal
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: with people up the road in Mission.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: And understanding that not one construct fits every type of person.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: And understanding that people in different environments have different needs based
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: upon their cultural lenses.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: And notice I didn't say racial, your cultural lenses, which sometimes race happens to be a part of.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: So understanding that and then,
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: again,
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: helping them form their own way in which they want to go about things and not just
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: box checking it's.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: Because when you're talking about humans,
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: you don't just box check and you're not a human anymore,
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: You got to keep going on because you're going to evolve.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_03: You're ever-growing.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: You're abstract and ambiguous to a certain degree.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: So are the needs of the people.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: So making sure that the work mirrors that.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just checkboxing.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's transmorphic.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's going to flow with you.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's going to be long-term.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's not two days.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's the next 220 days.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: You've described in this conversation a lot of creating opportunities for
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: individuals to create self-oriented insights and insights about others,
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: for organizations to sort of guide themselves.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's a very sort of bottom-up process.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: How do you all think about policy,
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: whether it's state government policy,
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: federal policy,
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: federal agencies?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: You're shaking your heads a little bit maybe because your work is done from a
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: different perspective,
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: but does your work give you hope that some of our governing institutions might
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: figure out how to move forward on some of these thorny issues?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I know it does.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: we you know,
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: we talk about the individual reflection,
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: but then we click out to the macro,
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: like the systemic oppression that exists in our society.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, how do we interrupt that?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: And we say it takes building authentic relationships across group lines and it.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: takes transforming institutions, and that's rules, laws, policies, practices, norms.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: We can't change policy without changing hearts and minds.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that's our role.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: And our role is also ensuring that
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: Those people,
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: whether they're young people or adults,
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: where there's laws and policies being enacted that impact them,
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: that they have a direct way to voice their experiences and their needs.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: We take our youth.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: We have an amazing youth advisory council there.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Every other year we take them to Helena for Equality Day.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: They meet with legislators.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: They host, they lead a session, a community session about strengthening allyship for LGBTQ youth.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: They get to testify if they want to.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: But we also look at organizations and schools and community groups and say,
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: what are your policies and norms today?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, let's dive through them.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: Let's review them.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: Where can there be changes?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: It could be the smallest thing of adding, not having binary gender on application.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: It could be the smallest thing is saying not dear parents, dear family and guardians.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Subtle things are changing policy.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: practices and norms.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: And there's some real oppressive policies that are coming at us and our young
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: people are being severely impacted by them.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: And we need to ensure they can share their stories because their stories are going
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: to change hearts and minds.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: I want to press on a term you used a few moments ago, a system of oppression.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because I would assume,
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how many of our listeners,
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: but there is a swath of the population that would hear a term like that and say,
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: what are you talking about?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: That doesn't exist.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's 2024.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: What's a system of oppression?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: We cannot deny that there are oppressive systems in our country.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: It was built with a white dominant mindset.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where we are today, whether we knew it or not.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think those are some of the aha moments that I've appreciated is
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: introducing how misinformation and disinformation can lead to mistreatment,
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: and that can then become embedded in our rules,
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: laws,
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: policies,
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: and practices.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we can look back a couple hundred years and see it.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: To be able to examine, like, how is this built?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: What's perpetuating inequities?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: you know that's what i like to introduce to people it's not there's no shame blame
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: or guilt that's going to hold us back we need reality checks you know we need to be
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: able to think beyond ourselves and our systems aren't set up for the dominant
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: people
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: to question it right right so how do you get the people to question it i mean
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: gently but by you know sure sure i guess what i'm asking like you you had a
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: powerful example a moment ago where you said like hey just understanding that you
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: shouldn't just have parent on a on a release form it should say parent guardian
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: because not everybody has a parent and then
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then you realize there are people that don't have parents.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: And what does it feel like if you don't have a parent to have to write that on a form?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Or if you're not a parent, so that's exclusionary.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Bingo, right there.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: There's the question.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: I don't mean to cut you off, Mr. Engel.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, please do.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: Bingo.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: Not everyone has a parent.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: What's that like?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: What's it like being a group home?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: What's a foster kid?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, that grandparent's 80 years old and is taking care of a six-year-old.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: As soon as you start asking those questions, guess what you're not doing?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: You're not damning someone.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: You're not presuming things.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: You're asking, like, what's that like?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, Mr. Engel, what was it?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: And hypothetical for the people listening,
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: what was it like growing up with a single grandfather as a parent when everyone
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: else's mom or dad or whoever was around?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: you know like and that's those are the types of questions that then lead into other
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: curious aspects as opposed to speculative manners yeah and that's and that's the
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: magic because you learn by what asking questions you don't learn by saying that
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: stinks close the door and move away you learn because you ask those questions that
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: lead to another question that leads to another question that then paints a
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: different picture as opposed to what you
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: or what you were taught by something that wasn't the healthiest source.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: I also like what Heidi said.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: We never want to change your mind, Mr. Angle.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: Because if I say, hey, what do you think about a certain situation?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: You could be like, I think this, and then it's over.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: I can compartmentalize my thoughts.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: But going back to that whole thing of how do you feel about it?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: If I change your heart, by proxy, your mind will change.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: I don't wanna change your mind, because you can change your mind right back.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: But if I change your heart, you're gonna sit with that for a second, because you're feeling it.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I think in the things that we do and how we go about it,
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: we want you to feel,
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: because that changes how you think.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes how you think about things doesn't change how you feel.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: But once you feel something, it transforms how you think.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then once you start thinking differently, your behaviors become differently.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: And as a human, your behaviors then become cyclical.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: Good, bad, or indifferent.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they sure do.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: A theme of this show lately has been the importance of trying to avoid zero-sum framing,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: to try to stay in non-zero-sum dynamics,
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: positive-sum dynamics to the degree that that's possible.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: How do you avoid falling into zero-sum traps when you're talking about this kind of work?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: By creating more opportunity and opportunities for inclusivity for others,
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: how are you not framing it as this is taking away from others?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think that we we react to words without really breaking the words down.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: OK, how does inclusive mean excluding someone else?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like, let's just let's begin at the beginning.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: I want to include older people.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: I want to have it be more inclusive for people who live in rural situations.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: I want to have it be more inclusive for people under six feet of height.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: How does that exclude anyone?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think we need to get back to actually listening to the words instead of reacting to the words.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: Listen to what I'm saying instead of reacting to what I'm saying.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: We live in a reactive society.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: We don't live in a responsive society.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's initial.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's visceral.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's guttural.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's...
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: Listen to what I'm saying.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you listen, then it changes how you hear me.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: It changes how you go from that point.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that to avoid that zero sum is get back to doing what we're doing right now.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: Let's have a conversation without the confrontation.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: Imagine that.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: Can we have a conversation without the confrontation?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: And also, in the last six to eight years, your opinion means you're trying to erase my opinion.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: No, you just have a different way of going about it.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: But if we break it down, we might actually have the same end game.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just going to go left and you're going to go right to get there.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: And that's okay because we'll end up at the finish line together.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: My wanting to sit at the table doesn't mean you have to leave.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: If you want to leave, that's your choice.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's not me forcing you.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: You work a lot with youth and youth in particular live in a media ecosystem that is
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: so algorithmically driven that it sort of reinforces a lot of the division that we
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: have in our worldview and our background and our society.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: We're sliced into groups and our media environment tries to keep us in those groups
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: so that we stay engaged.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Have you come up against that phenomena of how we interact with media and how media
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: operates in your current work?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: I had a conversation with a group of mothers about three weeks ago around this,
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: and I don't understand why my kids,
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: I said,
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: first of all,
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: who buys the devices?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: Who has control over them?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: I said,
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: before you blame YouTube and TikTok and Facebook and Instagram and Twitter
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: backslash X on these things,
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: how often are you having conversations with the kids around these subjects?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: the room fell silent.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we don't, if you're not doing that, then you can't blame those outside forces.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_03: You are mom,
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: dad,
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: grandma,
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: group home advisor,
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: whoever,
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: you're the first and last line of defense against that kind of stuff.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: To be able to say, hey, can you unpack what you just read?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: Can you unpack what you just, to have those kids start thinking critically.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: but also take back some of the control over the $3,000 devices we're literally pacifying our kids with.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like, hey, before we get into this, let's preface and then have the epilogue, right?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: Just like a good book, let's have the preface, then let's have the epilogue.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean...
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'll push back for the sake of argument.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: Proceed.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Say that you could view the technology moment we're living through as a system of oppression.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: And to argue that it's up to an individual to overcome that,
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: that might be too big a lift for an individual.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: As much work as I've done in this community,
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: actually just this week I got on Twitter for another reason,
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: just because I wanted to listen to an interview.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: I've survived without social media.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: Good for you.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing that a person can survive without social media.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: We'll be back to my conversation with Heidi Wallace and Regime Seabrook after this short break.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: A New Angle is proudly presented by First Security Bank,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: Blackfoot Communications,
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: and the University of Montana College of Business.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: This show does not happen without these pillars of our community,
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: and I'm so grateful for their support and encouragement.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: And speaking of support, have you checked out our new website yet, anewanglepodcast.com?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: There you can support our show directly with a variety of subscription options.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: Subscribers get access to bonus episodes, additional segments, writings, and other benefits.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: So check it out at anewanglepodcast.com.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Nora Sachs.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the host and reporter of Rich's Tale, a podcast from Montana Public Radio.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you're listening to A New Angle.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to A New Angle.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm speaking with Heidi Wallace and Regime Seabrook of Empower Montana.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: We as people have given up our power for things.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: How can we do this?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: How are we going to do this?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: Who's going to do this?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: You are.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: You are.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: Go look at the person in the mirror.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: Reflection is eternal.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: You.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: A revolution starts with one person, right?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: Change starts with one thought.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, put the onus back on the people and stop putting it on something or someone else.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: It is quick.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: It is easy.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: So easy and convenient to me.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's Mr. Angle's fault that I'm not feeling good.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's something else that's not allowing me.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's TikTok that's sucking my brain in.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: Turn it off.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: I do think,
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: though,
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: it does impact our young people in unhealthy ways and,
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: providing opportunities to educate young people about how to actually dive deeper
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: into the information you're getting to be critical about what they're taking in,
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: but also to be amplifying their knowledge
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: skills for cultivating their own resilience,
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: to be cultivating their own positive well-being and being in spaces where they are
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: feeling connected,
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: feeling seen.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: That is going to be a positive sort of reinforcer against some of the negative
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: things that might be coming at them through media.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, they're bombarded by
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: information 24 7.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: like i always say to the young people uh seventh grade heidi would not have
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: survived with cell phones oh yeah i would no way i'd probably still be grounded at
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: 50 years of age i'd still be grounded yeah yeah just i think giving young people
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: options beyond the screens to feel whole to feel connected
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: So are we getting better as a society?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Are we improving?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Are our sensibilities around these issues we're talking about today improving?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: I think we're doing different with hopes of doing better.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: I say that in our sessions a lot.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like I don't ever want to say,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: hey,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: Justin,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: I need you to do something better because that indicates you've messed up.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: Mr. Angle, can we do something differently that gives us hope?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: Can we do something differently?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: Think about all the times,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: and I'm assuming your dad said,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_03: go clean your room,
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: and then he comes in to check your room.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, I need you to do a better job.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: What?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: I gave it my all.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: I just gave up my whole Saturday.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, Mr. Angle, can we do a different job?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: Can we do it differently together?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I think our society right now is in almost in a purgatory.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like we want to do better, but we have to figure out how to do things differently.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that goes back to listening to people,
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: that goes to including people,
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: that goes to not trying to erase people or get rid of things that actually shine light.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: It goes back to, I don't know, we need to get back to town halls and meeting in the park.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: Because if I meet you in the park, guess what we're not on?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: A screen.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's been movement, positive things to be celebrating enough that can keep that hope alive.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: And we also have to be clear about the reality that there are attitudes and policies and
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: energy that is disrupting the health and well-being of our young people and adults.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: And we have to be committed to ensuring that
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: our young people can survive and thrive, you know?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, there's enough hope to keep us going, you know?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: But I think there is reality that, you know, we might be in a ebb of our flow right now.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I guess that's kind of what I'd like to, I should have asked the question this way.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are we making progress to a more just society?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is our society more just than it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 200 years ago?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: In some ways.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, in some ways, definitely.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: But in some ways, no, because we're still dealing with the same isms.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: We're still dealing with the same isms.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: There are parts of if we turn the news on right now and took the color off our screens, it's 1952 again.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's 1968 again.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: I also liken this, and I say this in our engagements, I was born in 1974.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: Some of the last civil rights bills were signed six years before I was born.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: So when I really think about that,
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: my generation is the first generation to actually,
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: not my parents,
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: not our respective parents,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: us,
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: And we're half century,
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: well,
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how you will,
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: but Heidi and I are on the other side of the mountain right now.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: And part of that is we haven't made a lot of progress if we're still talking about
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: the same things,
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: if we're still protesting the same things,
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: if we're still fighting to try to find equality in the same areas,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: in the same sectors,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: in the same states,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: in the same cities.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: So some of it has made minute progress.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: but we're still fighting the same isms.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: We're still fighting ableisms.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: We're still fighting sexisms.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: We're still fighting classisms.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: We're still fighting racisms.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: We're still fighting homophobia, you know, or dealing with the things from within.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: So progress has been made,
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: but there's so much more progress that needs to be made and is wanting to be made.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, it looks like you're holding on to a thought there.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think we got to hold on to the positives.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that is the hope that gets me going every day.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: And we also have to be real about the challenges and what we're up against.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: And when you say what's different from now, from 10 years ago,
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: I can say one example is I could go into any school in this state and work with
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: young people and make sure they don't feel invisible and that they could identify
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: as who they are and that we could
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: you know be in front of educators and and talking to them about how to be you know
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: stronger allies to meet all their young people no matter their identity or
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: circumstance that's not happening today so you know that's why like my heart you
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: know i'm getting hot right now it's just like yeah thinking about it
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: I would say, going back to the technology thing, that has actually advanced some of this.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: Because now that everyone is their own,
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: everyone has two turntables and a microphone,
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: they're recording things for the realities.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: So some of the technology is actually giving credence to the needs of the people.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: So when things are recorded,
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: when things are picked up on and it's shown on that scale,
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_03: it's like,
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: that actually did happen.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then the reality, the truth, you can't debate that.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: So the flip side to the going back to your screen,
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: Mr.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: Angle,
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: is like some of those things are actually lifting.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's amplifying things.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's giving people a chance to be heard where back in the day you would have to
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: wait for the news reporter to come in with hope that they would cover the story accurately.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right, yeah, and a lot of filters in between.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, boy.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing editors out there.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: The inspiration, honestly, for me is our young people.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they are so fierce and aware, and, you know, they see the inequities.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: They see where things need to change, and they –
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: They feel that they can contribute to change.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm just going to keep following their lead and doing my best to kind of clear the pathways.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's give folks an on-ramp to the work that you do.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're a young person wanting to get involved in one of your youth programs,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: if you're a leader of an organization who wants to bring you all in to help make
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: the organization better,
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: how would you advise people to find you and get involved?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, definitely come by our website, www.empowermt.org.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I know we're on Instagram and Facebook.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: And we have an Empowering Youth Leadership coming up this summer,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: July 22nd through 24th for high school students where they get to build connections
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: across schools.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: group lines, get some leadership skills.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's for free.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: It is free.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it's at Sealy Lake.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, come be in nature with us.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you can find information about that on our website.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, just, you know, look at your local coffee shop.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: You might see one of us there, but we would love to talk more about how, you know, we can
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: be a resource to your school or business or organization or community get your
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: young person connected to some of our programs super well thank you so much to the
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: two of you for coming in here talking about the work you do but more importantly
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: for the work that you do i appreciate it montana appreciates it and um you are
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: moving us towards a more just world so i appreciate it thank you thanks for letting
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: us have a platform today
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for listening to A New Angle.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: If you like what we do and want to support us directly,
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: please consider a subscription at anewanglepodcast.com.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: A New Angle is recorded at Studio 49, a generous gift from UM alums Michelle and Lauren Hansen.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: Our presenting sponsors are First Security Bank,
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: Blackfoot Communications,
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: and the University of Montana College of Business.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: Kelly Larson is our producer.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Maddie Jordan is our production assistant.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: VTO Jeff Ament and John Wicks made our music.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: And Jeff Meese is our master of all things sound.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks a lot and see you next time.