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MURDAUGH BOMBSHELL: "I DID HIM SO BAD" · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. We are live outside the
0:12
Speaker 1: Carlton County Courthouse and you should have been in the courtroom.
0:17
Speaker 1: So much went down in the last hours right behind us.
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Speaker 1: And to see Alex Murdock sitting there at the table,
0:26
Speaker 1: you would think not a thing had happened. But that
0:29
Speaker 1: is entirely not true. I mean, it's he grace. This
0:33
Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here
0:35
Speaker 1: at Fox Nation and Series leven. First of all, have
0:39
Speaker 1: you ever heard of a Freudian slip? Well, you're about
0:45
Speaker 1: to hear one right now. Take a listen to our
0:48
Speaker 1: cut seven. You testified that Alex said on the video
0:54
Speaker 1: captured by audio that it was so bad I did
0:59
Speaker 1: him so bad. That's what you testified to yesterday, Yes,
1:03
Speaker 1: or that is what I testified to him. Now, are
1:08
Speaker 1: you one hundred percent confidence that Alex said I did
1:12
Speaker 1: him so bad rather than they did him so bad?
1:17
Speaker 1: I had one hundred percent confident him what I heard
1:20
Speaker 1: and I interpreted him and saying, okay, you are hearing
1:23
Speaker 1: a cross examination of a state's witness. The defense tried
1:29
Speaker 1: so long and so hard to tell this witness he
1:35
Speaker 1: didn't hear what he heard Alex Berdyke saying in tears,
1:39
Speaker 1: I did him Paul my son so bad. Now listen
1:45
Speaker 1: to this our cut eight. There was a mental note
1:48
Speaker 1: that it was definitely something that we needed to follow
1:51
Speaker 1: up on and act at a later time. The father
1:54
Speaker 1: the only one in the circle, and he says, I
1:57
Speaker 1: did him so bad and intelliger You even wrote it
2:01
Speaker 1: down on a piece of paper. I don't recall if
2:03
Speaker 1: I actually made a physical note of it or not sure,
2:06
Speaker 1: your honor. We'd like to play it again at one
2:08
Speaker 1: third speed to slow it down. So did you hear? They? Then? No,
2:26
Speaker 1: Sure I did not. No matter how they tried with
2:30
Speaker 1: this witness, he would not give in to the defense.
2:34
Speaker 1: With me an all star panel to make sense of
2:36
Speaker 1: what just went down behind me, just as we were
2:38
Speaker 1: all coming out of the courtroom, they had a former
2:41
Speaker 1: Secret Service member from the US Secret Service and formerly
2:46
Speaker 1: of the Columbia PD. But I want to address that
2:49
Speaker 1: SlowMo replay of what Alex Murdoch said. It's caught on
2:54
Speaker 1: body cam. Wendy Patrick joining me, California Prosecutor, Wendy, I
2:59
Speaker 1: wish you had been in the courtroom. This witness was
3:03
Speaker 1: describing Alex smardog breaking down in tears, and as part
3:08
Speaker 1: of his blubbering, he said I did him so bad,
3:14
Speaker 1: and the defense tried over and over to get the
3:17
Speaker 1: witness to say no. He said they did him so bad,
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Speaker 1: not I did him so bad. But the witness never
3:24
Speaker 1: gave in, Windy Patrick, that's exactly right, nor would the witness,
3:27
Speaker 1: given this witness is trained to listen to the words exactly.
3:31
Speaker 1: That wouldn't have been something the witness would have needed
3:34
Speaker 1: to write down. It's so explosive, and you heard exactly that,
3:37
Speaker 1: there was no question as to what was said, and
3:40
Speaker 1: slowing it down it's even more significant and even easier
3:44
Speaker 1: to hear. And can I tell you something to Cheryl
3:48
Speaker 1: McCullum joining me, Crimes Saying expert, forensic expert, founder director
3:52
Speaker 1: of the Cold Case re Shorts Institute. Cheryl, I found
3:55
Speaker 1: myself literally sitting on the edge of my seat. I
4:01
Speaker 1: scooched forward, punched forward so I could put my ear
4:05
Speaker 1: to what I was hearing in the courtroom when they
4:07
Speaker 1: did that SloMo, I mean I closed my eyes. I'm like,
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Speaker 1: did he say they did Paul so bad when he
4:15
Speaker 1: was murdered? I mean, the whole courtroom, Sheryl, you've been there,
4:19
Speaker 1: you could have heard a pen drop. What do you
4:22
Speaker 1: make of it? Well, first of all, the word ah
4:25
Speaker 1: and day, so don't found anything alike. Number two, If
4:29
Speaker 1: he used ah, that's gonna be a confessional. If he
4:33
Speaker 1: used the day, then he's saying there was more than
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Speaker 1: one person. Why would he say that at that time
4:39
Speaker 1: he didn't know two separate weapons were used. So again
4:43
Speaker 1: it seems like to me he's in both the knowledge
4:45
Speaker 1: there either one of those words, it's been a helpless Well,
4:49
Speaker 1: I can tell you that witness sat there with a
4:52
Speaker 1: stone face and the whole courtroom hung on his words.
4:57
Speaker 1: Let me ask our New York control room, because you
4:59
Speaker 1: play cut eight one more time, I want you to
5:03
Speaker 1: hear it just the way we heard it in the
5:04
Speaker 1: court rang There was a mental note that it was
5:06
Speaker 1: definitely something that we needed to follow up on. And actually,
5:09
Speaker 1: at a later time, the father the only one in
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Speaker 1: the circle and he says, I didn't so bad, And
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Speaker 1: you can't tell a jerry. You even wrote it down
5:18
Speaker 1: on a piece of I don't recall if I actually
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Speaker 1: made a physical note of it or not. Sir, your honor,
5:24
Speaker 1: we'd like to play it again at one third speed
5:27
Speaker 1: to slow it down. So did you hear they? Then? No?
5:43
Speaker 1: Sure I did not. Man, I was looking right at
5:45
Speaker 1: that witness and I was thinking, what is he going
5:49
Speaker 1: to say? And what I'm seeing here is the same
5:53
Speaker 1: attack that we saw yesterday. For instance, we heard a
5:57
Speaker 1: lot about bloody footprints yesterday have been contaminated. You know,
6:02
Speaker 1: it's almost like a TV drama where the defense says, well,
6:06
Speaker 1: shouldn't there be bloody footprints? And the state says there
6:09
Speaker 1: are bloody footprints. So the defense then says, well, they
6:13
Speaker 1: were contaminated. So we see that happening again today, that
6:18
Speaker 1: same attack, because we hear the video and then the
6:22
Speaker 1: attack becomes well, you didn't write it down, did you. Well,
6:25
Speaker 1: of course the witness didn't write it down. It was
6:29
Speaker 1: all on bodycam video. Guys joining me a if very
6:33
Speaker 1: well known psychiatrists joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction.
6:36
Speaker 1: You can find her an Angela Arnold, m D. Doctor Angie,
6:39
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. You know I've thrown
6:42
Speaker 1: around the term with my lay person's understanding of it,
6:45
Speaker 1: a Freudian slip. Now. I didn't pay very much attention
6:50
Speaker 1: to Sigmund freud until the twins turned four, and then
6:53
Speaker 1: I started believing pretty much everything he said. But please
6:57
Speaker 1: explain the meaning of a Freudian slip, Nancy. In very
7:02
Speaker 1: simple terms, a Freudian slip is a slip of the tongue,
7:07
Speaker 1: but it reveals something that someone is unconsciously thinking. So
7:13
Speaker 1: this man is upset. We hear him crying, and he
7:17
Speaker 1: has a slip of the tongue That reveals something that
7:21
Speaker 1: is going on in his unconscious mind. It is very important.
7:25
Speaker 1: It is a very important clue. So I want to
7:27
Speaker 1: circle back to Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Why
7:32
Speaker 1: Bad Looks So Good. You can find out Wendy Patrick, PhD.
7:36
Speaker 1: Wendy explain what happened in that core And because I
7:40
Speaker 1: can tell you I wasn't the only one on the
7:42
Speaker 1: edge of my seat. The jarars, every one of them
7:46
Speaker 1: were looking at the replay. They were listening. They were
7:51
Speaker 1: looking right at the witness to find out if he
7:54
Speaker 1: was going to crack. Oh, that's exactly right. And that's
7:57
Speaker 1: the benefit you have of actually being in the courtroom
7:59
Speaker 1: and seeing these witnesses and the defendant in the flesh.
8:03
Speaker 1: The jurors are able to gauge his reaction. Now he's
8:05
Speaker 1: technically not an exhibit, but you can imagine they're imagining
8:09
Speaker 1: what they would feel seeing their loved ones covered with blood,
8:13
Speaker 1: listening back to the statements they say, wondering if they
8:15
Speaker 1: would ever accidentally admit committing a murder. So these are
8:18
Speaker 1: very powerful statements and observations that they're able to make firsthand,
8:23
Speaker 1: just like you are. You're on the edge of their seats.
8:25
Speaker 1: I'm willing to bet they are too. Time Stories with
8:41
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace and Emerson with me seeing your investigative reporter
8:45
Speaker 1: WCIV ABC, and I was just talking to all the
8:50
Speaker 1: guests about that SloMo replay. I saw you in the
8:54
Speaker 1: courtroom when everything was going down. Literally everyone was sitting
8:58
Speaker 1: on the edge of their seats. I could get one
9:00
Speaker 1: inch closer to that refle and I was thinking, after
9:04
Speaker 1: all this time, we've been talking about Alex Murlock saying
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Speaker 1: I did him so bad. I did Paul, my son
9:09
Speaker 1: that just got murdered. I did him so bad, And
9:12
Speaker 1: now on SloMo, we're going to hear that he really
9:16
Speaker 1: said they did him so bad. I couldn't believe that's
9:21
Speaker 1: what was happening. Explain to everyone you had a bird's
9:26
Speaker 1: eye view of it. What went down? Well, I was,
9:28
Speaker 1: and I was right there leaning in with everybody else,
9:31
Speaker 1: I think, and we were looking at the jurors. We
9:33
Speaker 1: really wanted to see exactly how they were going to
9:37
Speaker 1: be taking this information and sort of pivoting back and
9:41
Speaker 1: forth and looking at the senior sled Agent Croft at
9:44
Speaker 1: the same time, seeing if he was going to change
9:47
Speaker 1: his decision about what he heard, and he did not.
9:50
Speaker 1: He stood stood his ground on what he heard and
9:54
Speaker 1: said this is what I heard. And Griffin of course
9:56
Speaker 1: had to say, well, it's going to be up to
9:57
Speaker 1: this jury who was really voted. They were absolutely trying
10:02
Speaker 1: to figure out, thinking this could be a critical turning point.
10:07
Speaker 1: So we'll see what they say when they get back
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Speaker 1: into that jury room. Nancy. So, right before they called
10:12
Speaker 1: the lunch break, a new witness had taken the stand.
10:15
Speaker 1: He was short, he was succinct, he was awesome. Jonathan
10:18
Speaker 1: Van Houghton, as I recall his name, and he has
10:22
Speaker 1: been with the US Secret Service and he is a
10:25
Speaker 1: digital expert, and he's explaining to everybody how he ultimately
10:30
Speaker 1: unlocked Paul Murdoch's phone. This is critically important because Paul Murdoch,
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Speaker 1: the son, the murdered son. I had sent a snapchat
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Speaker 1: and was sending voicemails and phone calls and texts all
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Speaker 1: the way up until the time of his murder. This
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Speaker 1: guy is talking about unlocking Paul Murdoch's phone and how
10:52
Speaker 1: you do it. But before I get to that, I
10:55
Speaker 1: want to circle back chronologically. Let me get in my notebook.
10:58
Speaker 1: No phone's allowed, so to write everything down as quickly
11:02
Speaker 1: as I could. I want to talk about and this
11:05
Speaker 1: is where you come in. Leonard Romero joining US forensic
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Speaker 1: firearms experts at Ballistic Firearms Expert dot com. Leonard, thank
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Speaker 1: you for being with us. A lot was made this morning.
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Speaker 1: Let me get back to my notes about Blackout. Three
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Speaker 1: hundred AMMO taken from the murder scene. And I couldn't
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Speaker 1: quite understand where the state was going and what the
11:30
Speaker 1: defense was trying to get to, and then it all
11:32
Speaker 1: became very very clear. You know, they had basically a
11:38
Speaker 1: gun room there at the dog kennels is not really kennel.
11:42
Speaker 1: It's a big, big spread. It's not a dogshit, I
11:45
Speaker 1: can tell you that much. And inside which the defense
11:49
Speaker 1: thought really hard yesterday to keep out. I don't know
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Speaker 1: if we could pull up a picture of this or not,
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Speaker 1: but a room within the hunting watches Stay eight that
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Speaker 1: was dedicated to holding all the guns and ammo. We
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Speaker 1: learned Leonard that during this time it was very hard
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Speaker 1: to get three hundred blackout ammo and because of COVID,
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Speaker 1: they said, and they looked across the entire estate as
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Speaker 1: best as they could. They found two two twenty three
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Speaker 1: caliber two fifty six three h eight from a hunting
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Speaker 1: rifle also military use, but no other three hundred blackout,
12:36
Speaker 1: but that was what was used for the murders. Now
12:40
Speaker 1: explained to me, what is three hundred BLACKOUTMO? Thanks for
12:45
Speaker 1: having me, Nancy. Three hundred blackout AMO is basically similar
12:50
Speaker 1: to an eight K forty seven type of ammo. All
12:54
Speaker 1: it is is it's very powerful ammunition. It's an eight
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Speaker 1: key forty seven type round that's been and developed to
13:01
Speaker 1: be fired in an AR type weapon as the weapon
13:06
Speaker 1: as we've seen with this blackout three hundred. What's interesting
13:10
Speaker 1: about that gun room is the cartridge cases that they
13:13
Speaker 1: found in the flower bed and just adjacent to the
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Speaker 1: stoop entering the gun room. I believe they were three
13:23
Speaker 1: hundred blackout ammunition, but they were weathered cartridge cases, Okay,
13:27
Speaker 1: that it had been fired old, Yes, ma'am. If we
13:31
Speaker 1: can go ahead and link them to the fired cartridge
13:34
Speaker 1: cases back in the kennel, as well as any other
13:38
Speaker 1: cartridges that were cycled through the weapon, then that puts
13:43
Speaker 1: to rest that the gun was brought onto the property.
13:46
Speaker 1: That shows that that gun was fir Leonard Romero. Slow down,
13:53
Speaker 1: Will you say that again, very slowly so I can
13:56
Speaker 1: just let it sink in. Yes, ma'am, what happened. And
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Speaker 1: it's the same sled agent who is just testifying about
14:04
Speaker 1: He just just a minute ago when you showed him
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Speaker 1: he found some cartridge cases adjacent to the flower bed
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Speaker 1: in the gun room as well as adjacent to the
14:15
Speaker 1: stairs entering the gun room. He described them as being weathered.
14:20
Speaker 1: Those cartridge cases being weathered means they've been there for
14:23
Speaker 1: a significant amount of time. That tells us if we
14:27
Speaker 1: can link them back to the fired cartridge cases within
14:30
Speaker 1: the kennel, as well as any ammunition that have may
14:33
Speaker 1: been cycled through the weapon, that tells us that that
14:37
Speaker 1: weapon was on property all along, that it's not a
14:41
Speaker 1: weapon that just came onto the property. Because those cartridge
14:44
Speaker 1: cases have been there a significant amount of time, very significant,
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Speaker 1: Ann Emerson and joining us wciv Way in. Of course,
14:53
Speaker 1: this is before we get what I thought was a
14:56
Speaker 1: wild goose chase pardon my pun. Pardon my pun, because
14:59
Speaker 1: there was a huge long line of questioning and cross
15:02
Speaker 1: examination about turkey shot in other words, waterfowl versus landfowlmo.
15:13
Speaker 1: And I thought, why do we care about waterfowl versus
15:18
Speaker 1: non waterfowl, ammo? And that went on and on forever
15:22
Speaker 1: a till suddenly they made their point. But could you
15:26
Speaker 1: back up an to what Leonard Romero was telling us
15:29
Speaker 1: about the three hundred blackout, AMMO. Well, it's very significant
15:34
Speaker 1: because you know, markings on these shell casings, as as
15:38
Speaker 1: we just heard, are going to be so important to
15:42
Speaker 1: this case. They are like the signature of a gun. Now,
15:45
Speaker 1: we don't have the murder weapon in this circumstance. They've
15:48
Speaker 1: already said that several times that we don't have the
15:51
Speaker 1: actual murder weapon, but the prosecution is setting it up
15:54
Speaker 1: that this is a family weapon that was used. Even
15:57
Speaker 1: if we don't have it yet, we have these shell
15:59
Speaker 1: case things that can all point they're telling us from
16:03
Speaker 1: the range to the stoop of the house to the
16:07
Speaker 1: casings that were found around Maggie's body, that these three
16:10
Speaker 1: hundred blackout that not only are they uncommon, according to
16:13
Speaker 1: our senior sled agent, he says he has never worked
16:17
Speaker 1: a case with three hundred blackout before. This is also
16:20
Speaker 1: the same shell casing. So we're gonna have to see
16:23
Speaker 1: how hard the defense goes after that. Now, the water foul,
16:27
Speaker 1: I thought that was so interesting too, And I was,
16:29
Speaker 1: you know, as as at one point Griffin said, I'm
16:32
Speaker 1: a city boy. You know, I'm not. I'm not you know,
16:35
Speaker 1: I'm still from a small southern town, but I guess
16:38
Speaker 1: I'm a city girl. So I really had to take
16:40
Speaker 1: a lot of notes on that too. But what I
16:42
Speaker 1: got from that was that there Griffin, the defense Jim
16:46
Speaker 1: Griffin is trying to say that the shells that killed,
16:53
Speaker 1: the shells that killed Paul Murdoch, well those just were
16:56
Speaker 1: not on the property. These seal shell steel bullets that
17:02
Speaker 1: killed waterfowl that would have been loaded into this shotgun.
17:05
Speaker 1: The way I understood it, this just isn't what killed Paul.
17:09
Speaker 1: So that does seem to present a problem. You know,
17:13
Speaker 1: they went through a lot of discussion, a lot of
17:16
Speaker 1: questioning and cross examination on particular types of MMO. And
17:22
Speaker 1: I took so many notes. I'm just wondering how the
17:25
Speaker 1: jury to keep up with it, because I noticed they're
17:29
Speaker 1: not taking notes. Now, in some jurisdictions, note taking is allowed.
17:34
Speaker 1: In many jurisdictions, it is not allowed. And this is
17:37
Speaker 1: the legal reasoning why some judges do not allow girars
17:41
Speaker 1: to take notes. The law the judge does not want
17:46
Speaker 1: the jury, when they are working in tandem, to rely
17:50
Speaker 1: solely on one or more jurars notes. They are to
17:55
Speaker 1: reach a true verdict based on their collective memories of
18:00
Speaker 1: what happened in the courtroom. But I can tell you,
18:02
Speaker 1: and I try to flow chart about all the different
18:05
Speaker 1: AMMO and all of the AMMO related questions, but I'll
18:09
Speaker 1: tell you what it boils down to. I can do
18:11
Speaker 1: that for you. Leonard Romero, forensics ballistics expert. It boils
18:16
Speaker 1: down to this. We all know that a bullet is
18:21
Speaker 1: like a fingerprint, because once a bullet hurdles down the
18:26
Speaker 1: barrel of a gun, it is indelibly and forever marked
18:32
Speaker 1: with the imperfections on the inside of that barrel where
18:37
Speaker 1: when the factory made it, that metal cooled and there
18:41
Speaker 1: will be little rivets and dots inside the barrel. And
18:45
Speaker 1: those bullet striations or marks on a bullet are only
18:50
Speaker 1: made by one gun and one gun only. And when
18:53
Speaker 1: you look at it under a microscope at the crime lab,
18:57
Speaker 1: you get your known bullet out of the body. You're
19:00
Speaker 1: at the crime saying that was fired from a gun,
19:02
Speaker 1: and then you try to fire from the known weapon,
19:06
Speaker 1: the murder weapon, and see if they match. Our problem
19:09
Speaker 1: is we don't have the murder weapon. What a lot
19:11
Speaker 1: of people don't know is that a cartridge can do
19:16
Speaker 1: not exactly the same thing, but much the same thing. Explain, Yes, basically,
19:22
Speaker 1: the cartridge case is going to have tool marks on
19:24
Speaker 1: it that our individual for a particular firearm that it
19:29
Speaker 1: was fired in. Just as a bullet has those individual
19:32
Speaker 1: tool marks that allow us to identify it back to
19:36
Speaker 1: a particular gun, the cartridge cases all have those similar
19:40
Speaker 1: tool marks in different areas of it that we can
19:43
Speaker 1: use to identify back to a gun. Going back to
19:46
Speaker 1: your original question with regards to the AMMO, it is
19:49
Speaker 1: a fairly new round. It was developed in two thou
19:52
Speaker 1: and ten, but there was a difficulty in getting AMMO
19:57
Speaker 1: during COVID, not only for this particular round. What made
20:01
Speaker 1: it more difficult for this is that it was a
20:03
Speaker 1: newer type of round developed. But for all ammunition because
20:06
Speaker 1: of COVID, it was very difficult to buy ammunition. An
20:11
Speaker 1: Emerson with Me, Senior investigator, Reporter WCIV. We keep hearing
20:16
Speaker 1: about a receipt that was found in a trash bag
20:19
Speaker 1: and it was a Gucci receipt. Why do we keep
20:25
Speaker 1: hearing about a Gucci store receipt and what if any
20:30
Speaker 1: significance do we believe that played well, Nancy, you know,
20:33
Speaker 1: it just seems like they just keep on hooking us.
20:35
Speaker 1: Did you see the room again? Like once again? It
20:38
Speaker 1: was one of those moments where everyone but he said,
20:41
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, we're gonna talk about that Gucci receipt
20:43
Speaker 1: again and then they sort of leave us hanging. All
20:46
Speaker 1: we get out of that is that there was a
20:47
Speaker 1: Gucci There was a receipt from the Gucci storeward thinking
20:50
Speaker 1: that it was from Charleston, because we know that there's
20:52
Speaker 1: one in Charleston. That it was for over a thousand dollars.
20:55
Speaker 1: It was on a credit card statement, It was circled
20:58
Speaker 1: and it was balled up and it was thrown in
21:00
Speaker 1: the trash can of of this kennel, of the area
21:04
Speaker 1: of where the murders took place, and so who threw
21:07
Speaker 1: away the Gucci receipt was? How does this play into
21:11
Speaker 1: what we already know about the financial pressures that Alec
21:17
Speaker 1: Murdoch had brought upon himself with these alleged financial crimes.
21:21
Speaker 1: How how is this going to play into the prosecution? Now?
21:25
Speaker 1: One thing that I have heard over and over again
21:28
Speaker 1: is that this case is to be looked at just
21:31
Speaker 1: like a puzzle. They are getting us a piece at
21:33
Speaker 1: a time, and sometimes those pieces turn out to be
21:36
Speaker 1: really not the right fit. But gosh, I mean, we
21:40
Speaker 1: are starting to see a picture for sure. So that
21:42
Speaker 1: Gucci receipt to me was something was bought there. It
21:46
Speaker 1: was over a thousand dollars that would have caused pressure
21:48
Speaker 1: on the family. You know, we can really start kind
21:51
Speaker 1: of seeing where there that those state wants us to
21:55
Speaker 1: focus on financial issues, whether or not they get brought
21:59
Speaker 1: into Well, I've done a little bit of digging since
22:03
Speaker 1: we've been here in Walterborough, and I'm thinking about that
22:07
Speaker 1: Gucci receipt and this is what I've learned, But by
22:11
Speaker 1: not one person, but by two thinking about this Gucci receipt.
22:19
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about how Alex Murdog knew he was so
22:23
Speaker 1: deep in debt, stealing clients money, siphoning money from his
22:27
Speaker 1: law firm, just outright embuzzling money, you know, to the
22:33
Speaker 1: point where his law firm kicked him out. And of
22:36
Speaker 1: course you know, yesterday we spoke with Eric Bland, the
22:39
Speaker 1: lawyer for the sadder Field family whose mom was found
22:44
Speaker 1: at the foot of the stairs there and all of
22:48
Speaker 1: that money, hundreds of thousands of dollars was taken by
22:51
Speaker 1: Alex Murdog that should have gone to that family. That's
22:54
Speaker 1: just one small example. So Murdog knows he's way draw
23:00
Speaker 1: downing in debt, but Maggie didn't really know, according to
23:06
Speaker 1: some sources, how bad it was. And I'm wondering if
23:09
Speaker 1: she went and unwittingly blew a thousand bucks at Gucci. Now,
23:13
Speaker 1: this is what I've learned. That the man the home,
23:19
Speaker 1: the beach house they had in Edmonton, was in Maggie's name,
23:23
Speaker 1: Anne Emerson, and that Murdoch went to Maggie and wanted
23:28
Speaker 1: her to put that beach house up as collateral for
23:32
Speaker 1: him to get yet another loan. She wouldn't do it,
23:38
Speaker 1: and he was mad as h e double l that
23:41
Speaker 1: she would not use that house as collateral, that there
23:46
Speaker 1: were all sorts of money tensions between these two. You know,
23:51
Speaker 1: I would like to pose the hypothetical why to rich people,
23:55
Speaker 1: all they want to do is hold on to that money,
23:57
Speaker 1: spend it and try to get some more. Said this
24:02
Speaker 1: Gucci receipt. We're gonna hear about that, Anne Emerson. We're
24:05
Speaker 1: gonna hear it, because they keep mentioning it in the courtroom,
24:08
Speaker 1: they keep on hooking us. They're absolutely going to bring
24:11
Speaker 1: that up, and I think they're gonna bring it up
24:13
Speaker 1: in a way that's going to make a lot of
24:15
Speaker 1: sense as far as what we also know, which is
24:18
Speaker 1: that the chief financial officer over the Murdoch law firm
24:22
Speaker 1: has confronted Alec Murdoch the day of the killing. So
24:27
Speaker 1: that's going to have to play in tandem with this
24:31
Speaker 1: level of pressure that's building on the family. Years and
24:35
Speaker 1: years of financial allegations that are going to be coming
24:39
Speaker 1: to play here, and it's just a matter of time. Well,
24:42
Speaker 1: I can tell you one person that better get their
24:45
Speaker 1: story straight. But before I go to Alex Murdoch and
24:49
Speaker 1: our cut one talking about exactly when the last time
24:53
Speaker 1: he saw his wife alive. I mean, I can tell
24:56
Speaker 1: you right now the last time I saw my children
24:59
Speaker 1: in my house, sin as I pulled out in the
25:01
Speaker 1: driveway to come here, I can tell you exactly what
25:03
Speaker 1: they were doing. But he seems to have a little
25:05
Speaker 1: trouble remembering exactly what was happening the last time he
25:09
Speaker 1: saw his wife alive. But before I go to that,
25:12
Speaker 1: doctor Michelle dupre joining me forensic pathologists, medical examiner, also
25:16
Speaker 1: detective author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, Doctor Dupree, I mean,
25:23
Speaker 1: I know you've You've had a lot of autopsies, but
25:26
Speaker 1: it just stopped me in my tracks when I heard
25:30
Speaker 1: that Paul's God Rest, his soul, brains were down by
25:37
Speaker 1: his feet. Those words were Murdog's words, not mine. Murdog's words.
25:43
Speaker 1: I don't think I would have put it quite like that,
25:46
Speaker 1: But doctor Dupree, would a three hundred caliber blackout bullet
25:54
Speaker 1: as opposed to let's just say a twenty two, for
25:56
Speaker 1: Pete's sake, cause that type of damage to the human body. Absolutely,
26:02
Speaker 1: Nancy that the way that we determine the damage to
26:06
Speaker 1: the body is basically by the kindetic energy or the
26:08
Speaker 1: amount of energy in that specific projectile, and that would
26:12
Speaker 1: cause extensive damage to a human body, especially when it
26:16
Speaker 1: hits a skull like that, it would be devastating, and
26:19
Speaker 1: again at rather close range. But to take your brain
26:23
Speaker 1: first of all, out of your skull and it fly
26:30
Speaker 1: all the way to your feet. A bullet a weapon
26:34
Speaker 1: that powerful. Is that what a three hundred blackout is? Yes,
26:37
Speaker 1: it is, Nancy, that's what. Any type of weapon like
26:39
Speaker 1: that is, A rifle or an AKA would do the
26:42
Speaker 1: same thing, a shotgun, the same thing. Now, this type
26:45
Speaker 1: of weapond Leonard Romero, a ballistics expert, is a semi
26:50
Speaker 1: semi automatic, which means you have to pull the trigger.
26:54
Speaker 1: It's not like a machine gun on TV, where you
26:57
Speaker 1: go you pull a trigger at one time, it just
26:59
Speaker 1: keeps on shooting. This is a semi where every time
27:03
Speaker 1: you hear a bullet, somebody had to pull the trigger
27:06
Speaker 1: for each firing. Correct, Yes, ma'am, that's correct. With each
27:09
Speaker 1: pull of the trigger, the gun is fired. I can
27:12
Speaker 1: tell you right where that's going, Wendy Patrick. That is
27:14
Speaker 1: going to intent, because intent to commit a crime does
27:20
Speaker 1: require some malice aforethought. But under the law, there is
27:27
Speaker 1: no specific time for that planning. It does not have
27:30
Speaker 1: to be a long attenuated plan such as I feed
27:35
Speaker 1: Ann Emerson a little bit of arsenic every day in
27:38
Speaker 1: her coffee before court until she kills over. That's a
27:40
Speaker 1: long extended plan to kill. Intend to kill under the law.
27:46
Speaker 1: The law says this, not me. The law says it
27:49
Speaker 1: can be formed in the twinkling of a moment, the
27:53
Speaker 1: blink of an eye. The time it takes you to
27:55
Speaker 1: raise the gun and pull the trigger is long enough
27:57
Speaker 1: to form intent to kill, much less when you fire
28:01
Speaker 1: multiple rounds Wendy Patrick, and each time you must knowingly
28:04
Speaker 1: and willfully pull the trigger. Isn't that true? Oh? Absolutely,
28:08
Speaker 1: you know. Not only does the law say you can
28:10
Speaker 1: form intend to kill very quickly, but in a case
28:13
Speaker 1: like this, where there are so many moving parts that
28:15
Speaker 1: you can put together, that's exactly what you find here,
28:18
Speaker 1: to the extent that it's almost a rage type killing
28:22
Speaker 1: when you have chosen and selected this particular weapon, which,
28:25
Speaker 1: by the way, through that unique signature that we've been discussing,
28:30
Speaker 1: is tied directly to the crime scene. So this may
28:32
Speaker 1: be a puzzle, but we've already established the border. Now
28:36
Speaker 1: the Gucci receives some of the other information that's just
28:39
Speaker 1: going to fill in the middle of it. Jurors don't
28:41
Speaker 1: need to see notes to see the picture that is emerging.
28:44
Speaker 1: So Cheryl McCollum is joining me. Frins the expert the
28:47
Speaker 1: Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl wag In on what you're
28:50
Speaker 1: hearing about ballistics. I think one of the most important
28:52
Speaker 1: things is going to be the placement on their body
28:56
Speaker 1: then where you know the cards being a found and
29:00
Speaker 1: Nancy also something from me, Major if All has never
29:05
Speaker 1: said any guns were missing. Okay, hold on, hold on,
29:09
Speaker 1: say that one more time. I'm out here in the
29:12
Speaker 1: in front the courthouse. I didn't you cut out on me?
29:14
Speaker 1: What did you just say? Aul has never said guns
29:17
Speaker 1: were missing from his arsenal. He's never said, oh my god,
29:21
Speaker 1: just and that was difference. You never said that. You
29:24
Speaker 1: know what's interesting about what you just said. I want
29:29
Speaker 1: to circle back to Anne Emerson on exactly what Cheryl
29:31
Speaker 1: McComb just said. They're laying the foundation. The defense is
29:35
Speaker 1: laying the foundation. Anne Emerson, how many times have we
29:40
Speaker 1: heard the defense say in court that Paul Murdoch leaves
29:44
Speaker 1: things laying around and it is suggesting he's lost a
29:48
Speaker 1: gun absolutely, I mean, and it was something that was
29:51
Speaker 1: laid by Alec Murdoch. The defendants started laying the groundwork
29:55
Speaker 1: for that. In his first statements to SLED officers. We
29:59
Speaker 1: heard that Paul was absent minded, he was irresponsible. We
30:03
Speaker 1: heard that he had ADHD. We heard that he left
30:05
Speaker 1: stuff all over the place, including his clothes all over
30:07
Speaker 1: the state, his guns all over the place. He talked
30:10
Speaker 1: about how he used his guns all all over the
30:14
Speaker 1: seventeen hundred acre estate. In other words, like who knows
30:17
Speaker 1: what he could have done with his guns. He was
30:19
Speaker 1: really setting that up in these video statements that Paul
30:23
Speaker 1: was irresponsible with guns and armo and that he would
30:28
Speaker 1: he would take a three hundred blackout and just go
30:30
Speaker 1: shoot hogs when he felt like it. Now, the thing
30:32
Speaker 1: about the lost or stolen there's a big question here
30:36
Speaker 1: because we heard that he never reported his stolen the
30:40
Speaker 1: blackout rifle of Paul's. This is what we were hearing
30:43
Speaker 1: that Alec Murduck never reported it, but he did let
30:45
Speaker 1: his buddies know in law enforcement in case it turned
30:48
Speaker 1: into a drug thing. So I'm wondering if defense already
30:51
Speaker 1: had some witnesses lined up to say we knew that
30:53
Speaker 1: Paul's gun was missing from the property time stories with
31:10
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I can see them laying the trap right now.
31:16
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure where they were headed, but I knew
31:19
Speaker 1: they're laying a trap for the stake. They're implicating Paul,
31:23
Speaker 1: the dead son, as somehow being irresponsible and quote leaving
31:28
Speaker 1: guns laying around. You know, Charyon will call them. You
31:31
Speaker 1: and I have handled a lot of cases in intercity Atlanta,
31:34
Speaker 1: and almost all of them dealing with guns. There's a
31:37
Speaker 1: big difference and having a messy room and throwing your
31:39
Speaker 1: clothes around your car or your bedroom and leaving an
31:44
Speaker 1: a r basically, you know, a semi automatic assault weapon
31:50
Speaker 1: lying around. I just don't see that. I don't believe
31:54
Speaker 1: that for one minute. I don't believe. And here's what's
31:56
Speaker 1: gonna happen. The prosecution is going to show what all
32:01
Speaker 1: is not present at that scene that kuld be if
32:05
Speaker 1: this is an outside person. They're gonna show there's no
32:08
Speaker 1: unknown footprint, there's no unknown cell phone team, there's no
32:13
Speaker 1: other suffect anywhere that anybody's been able to name. There
32:17
Speaker 1: gonna have promote there's no one else but lured in
32:20
Speaker 1: this nobody else does to say, but all three d there.
32:24
Speaker 1: But you know Alex to believe no unsold power past.
32:29
Speaker 1: There's no Burkeley, there's no sexty calls, there's Susie, there's
32:33
Speaker 1: nothing that Alex Burdoffs begin to speak of us. It's
32:39
Speaker 1: gonna come back. Who Alex Ardoff to day of the movie?
32:43
Speaker 1: What does he call you? With his office, even with
32:47
Speaker 1: residable suit involving Paul, that the receif angle about us,
32:52
Speaker 1: he lured his wife say he already admitted me and
32:55
Speaker 1: as all all all, that's why you've got to do
32:58
Speaker 1: what he telling you. I was old this property with
33:02
Speaker 1: these two people, that I got this and I had
33:05
Speaker 1: you know, I was looking at my notes about what
33:07
Speaker 1: I was telling you earlier that two witnesses, two people
33:11
Speaker 1: came up and told me that Maggie had a quote
33:15
Speaker 1: nice beautiful Antebellum home in downtown Hampton, and that Murdog
33:24
Speaker 1: had her sell it and move, and that he also
33:29
Speaker 1: wanted her to put up the Edisto Beach home, put
33:33
Speaker 1: it up for collateral so he could get another bank loan,
33:36
Speaker 1: and she refused. We also heard a lot today about
33:41
Speaker 1: step playing on the skin, and I nearly jumped out
33:44
Speaker 1: of my skin yesterday, An Emerson, and you know Leonardamro
33:49
Speaker 1: or anyone on the panel, Doctor Michelle Dupree. I keep
33:52
Speaker 1: telling you guys, this is not high tea at Windsor
33:54
Speaker 1: Castle with the new King Charles. Okay, so jump in
33:57
Speaker 1: if you have an idea here. You're all experienced veterans.
34:01
Speaker 1: So Anne Emerson. Yesterday when the defense was going on
34:05
Speaker 1: and on and on about the trajectory path, the angle
34:09
Speaker 1: at which the victims were shot. Was it from here down?
34:14
Speaker 1: Was a straight across? Let me just give an example.
34:17
Speaker 1: Here's a way to tell if there was a suicide.
34:21
Speaker 1: If somebody is shot in the back of the head,
34:22
Speaker 1: that's probably not a suicide because it would be difficult
34:26
Speaker 1: for the suicide victim to do that. They were arguing
34:30
Speaker 1: yesterday about the trajectory of the path of the bullet
34:34
Speaker 1: that shot the victims, and we're trying to get worldly.
34:40
Speaker 1: I love that woman. She was such a great witness
34:42
Speaker 1: on the stand to say that there were two shooters.
34:45
Speaker 1: She would never say it today. They came in first
34:48
Speaker 1: thing this morning talking about stippling on the victim's skin,
34:55
Speaker 1: which in my mind would show a defendant a perp
34:59
Speaker 1: could shoot at one angle, and when the victim was down,
35:03
Speaker 1: they could go over and shoot close range at a
35:06
Speaker 1: different trajectory path, a different angle. So Ann Emerson, they
35:12
Speaker 1: came in immediately talking about stippling on the victim's bodies.
35:17
Speaker 1: What do you make of that? Well, I think that
35:19
Speaker 1: there's a couple of things here that I took away,
35:21
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to listen to some of the tidbits
35:22
Speaker 1: that they're they're handing out, because I, like you said,
35:25
Speaker 1: this is very important that they were that close that
35:28
Speaker 1: they actually had stippling on both of these bodies. Now,
35:32
Speaker 1: we were hearing from Defense that there must have been
35:34
Speaker 1: another angle that was quite far away, and that's where
35:37
Speaker 1: Defense started setting up the two shooter theory, which I
35:40
Speaker 1: don't think they did a bad job with. I just
35:42
Speaker 1: think the problem that they're having is that people are
35:45
Speaker 1: saying the witnesses on the sand States talking about that
35:49
Speaker 1: they're actually people can move. It's not like they have
35:52
Speaker 1: to stay still if they're exactly we know because we
35:55
Speaker 1: heard earlier on that Maggie and they they've already said
36:00
Speaker 1: that the shooter and Maggie were moving when that happened,
36:03
Speaker 1: when she was shot. They were both moving, so there's
36:07
Speaker 1: there's nothing stopping the state from saying, hey, this is
36:10
Speaker 1: one person and he was moving around. I think their
36:12
Speaker 1: bigger problem is how he was holding two guns. Did
36:15
Speaker 1: he have one on his back, did he have one
36:17
Speaker 1: in his hand. I'm really interested to see what they're
36:20
Speaker 1: gonna say about where the position an Emerson and Emerson.
36:25
Speaker 1: Apparently when you were in journalism school, you did not
36:30
Speaker 1: get the required course. In Arnold Schwarzenegger or Rambo, they
36:34
Speaker 1: always carry two guns. So anybody's been watching TV and
36:38
Speaker 1: they think they're gonna pull off a murder, they do
36:41
Speaker 1: what they see day. They come in, you know, guns loaded,
36:45
Speaker 1: locked and loaded. I can very easily see him coming
36:48
Speaker 1: in with two weapons. It's not that fantastical to me. Okay, guys,
36:52
Speaker 1: another thing happened today. I want you to hear Alex
36:56
Speaker 1: Murlock seems to be a little confused about the last
36:59
Speaker 1: time he saw his wife alive. Take a listen to
37:03
Speaker 1: our cut one. At some point we were all back
37:07
Speaker 1: at the house together. Maggie had gotten home, and you know,
37:12
Speaker 1: we sat down, we ate supper, and which we usually
37:15
Speaker 1: suffered together. I know that Maggie went to the kennels. Um,
37:20
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly where Paul went, but he left
37:22
Speaker 1: the house too, Okay, I mean I assuming Paul went
37:25
Speaker 1: to the kennels. I stayed in the house and I
37:30
Speaker 1: was watching TV, looking at my phone, and I actually
37:34
Speaker 1: fell asleep on the couch when you and Paul got
37:36
Speaker 1: back to the house. Whence Maggie's there and goat eat
37:40
Speaker 1: supper which has been prepared, And you said, you said
37:45
Speaker 1: you laid down and took a little bit out and
37:48
Speaker 1: when you got up, Maggie and Paul was gone. Or
37:51
Speaker 1: did they leave when you laid down? I believed that,
38:01
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not sure, but they weren't there when
38:05
Speaker 1: you woke up around the nine o'clock mark or so
38:09
Speaker 1: when when you made the call to Maggie to let
38:11
Speaker 1: her know. He's going to even know nobody was in
38:14
Speaker 1: that house when I when I left, And just trying
38:24
Speaker 1: to narrow that the last time that Paul and you
38:28
Speaker 1: saw paulow Maggie's when y'all are eating supper, Yes, sir guy,
38:34
Speaker 1: he can't be asleep having supper at the kennels, in
38:38
Speaker 1: the car on the phone all at the same time.
38:43
Speaker 1: I mean, he's not clear He's giving multiple explanations of
38:49
Speaker 1: where he was, where Maggie was, and when he saw
38:52
Speaker 1: her for the last time before she was murdered. How
38:55
Speaker 1: can that be? It can't be, and I'll chase something else,
38:58
Speaker 1: and he says, I was watching and throwing on my phone.
39:02
Speaker 1: That's gonna be easy for them to prove whether or
39:04
Speaker 1: not that happened. What show were you watching? He's easily
39:07
Speaker 1: going to be able to tell something that was on
39:09
Speaker 1: TV at that time or not. Yeah, they've got his phone.
39:12
Speaker 1: They're gonna know whether or not he was throwing like
39:14
Speaker 1: before posing this nap. What is going to be critical
39:18
Speaker 1: is the patality of everything that he has said. When
39:22
Speaker 1: he said it and acted alman he comes as he
39:26
Speaker 1: ever woken up from a nap, didn't see his wife
39:29
Speaker 1: for tom and left without telling then he would Nancy.
39:35
Speaker 1: Can I jump in here? Oh okay, go ahead, Wendy
39:37
Speaker 1: jump in. Shery was making some great points about the
39:40
Speaker 1: fact that the suspect was giving all this kind of
39:43
Speaker 1: information that can be corroborated. What was he watching on television,
39:46
Speaker 1: what was he doing on his phone? They can check
39:48
Speaker 1: all of that. I want to point that tone of
39:50
Speaker 1: voice is very important. Here as well. It's not just
39:53
Speaker 1: what he's saying, it's the way he's saying it. And
39:56
Speaker 1: remember this was close in time to the murders. So
39:59
Speaker 1: the the fact that there's this inability to reconstruct a
40:02
Speaker 1: timeline that literally just happened is definitely something that jurors
40:06
Speaker 1: are going to really pay a lot of attention to.
40:08
Speaker 1: And then loop is I think everybody else has been saying,
40:11
Speaker 1: with the weight of the rest of the evidence they
40:13
Speaker 1: have to work with. Well, let me just ask doctor
40:16
Speaker 1: Angie Arnold Angela, do you remember the last time you
40:21
Speaker 1: saw your husband before you came to the set? Well,
40:26
Speaker 1: what was he doing? What was he doing? He was
40:28
Speaker 1: leaving to go to a meeting, Okay, and I remember
40:31
Speaker 1: what time it was. Also, because Nancy, typically what people do,
40:36
Speaker 1: they associate things with other things that are going on.
40:40
Speaker 1: So one of my questions is, had Alex been drinking
40:44
Speaker 1: heavily that night? I don't know, why could he? Why
40:47
Speaker 1: is he so specific about some of the things that
40:51
Speaker 1: he remembers that he wants us to think that he remembers,
40:53
Speaker 1: and then and then everything else is so fuzzy. I
40:57
Speaker 1: think that's a very big red flag. Also, other thing,
41:00
Speaker 1: doctor Angie is I can remember to this day the
41:04
Speaker 1: last moment I saw my fiance alive before he was murdered.
41:09
Speaker 1: He was leaving in his car and I was waving
41:12
Speaker 1: and held his right hand out the window and waved,
41:15
Speaker 1: and that was the last I saw him. I remember
41:18
Speaker 1: it like it happened before the lunch break. And now
41:21
Speaker 1: murdog can't tell me the last time he saw his
41:25
Speaker 1: wife alive, the mother of his two children. That is
41:28
Speaker 1: some bs and that is not a technical legal term. Guys,
41:33
Speaker 1: A lot going down in the courtroom, and I want
41:35
Speaker 1: to go to our cut nine about not only is
41:39
Speaker 1: it stipling on the body, but another significant line of
41:44
Speaker 1: questioning by the defense that has just happened about where
41:48
Speaker 1: does the cartridge land when you shoot a shotgun or
41:54
Speaker 1: any long gun. This is important. Listen to this. Are
41:57
Speaker 1: you aware that both victims had stippling on them from
42:00
Speaker 1: their gunshot injuries? Yes, sir, I am, and what is stippling.
42:03
Speaker 1: Stippling is a powder burned pattern which is left on
42:09
Speaker 1: an individual due to a close range shot. To a
42:12
Speaker 1: close range shot, that is correct. Thank you. You're asking
42:17
Speaker 1: some questions about the location of where showcasings land when
42:24
Speaker 1: they're ejected out of the weapon of Zaka. Yes, sir,
42:26
Speaker 1: I was. Are there a number of factors that going
42:28
Speaker 1: to where a showcase he might actually land? Yes, sir
42:31
Speaker 1: it is. Can people move? I'm sorry, sir, Do people move?
42:36
Speaker 1: People can move? Yes, sir. I gotta tell you that
42:38
Speaker 1: prosecutor was he knows his way around a courtroom. I
42:42
Speaker 1: can tell you that much. He's good. And they had
42:45
Speaker 1: another defense lawyer up today in addition to Hartpool again
42:48
Speaker 1: doing cross exams. He was pretty good too. So right
42:52
Speaker 1: now it's an even match in the courtroom between the lawyers.
42:55
Speaker 1: Can we talk about why it's important where does the
42:59
Speaker 1: cartage go after you fire a long gun? With me?
43:02
Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle du Pree not only pithologists medical examiner, but
43:07
Speaker 1: she also is a forensic consultant. What can you tell
43:11
Speaker 1: us about where the cartridge goes when it's ejected, Not
43:15
Speaker 1: the bullet, but the cartridge when it's ejected from a
43:18
Speaker 1: long gun. We'll answy that. That's a good question, and
43:21
Speaker 1: most of them do eject to the right and oftentimes backwards.
43:24
Speaker 1: But the problem is we can't place a lot of
43:27
Speaker 1: stock in where we find that cartridge, that cartridge casing
43:31
Speaker 1: because there are so many things that happen. Maybe the
43:34
Speaker 1: person themselves moved it, maybe the shooter kicked it, maybe
43:38
Speaker 1: some of the first responders kicked it. It's something to
43:41
Speaker 1: look at, but that is not definitive. I want to
43:44
Speaker 1: say one other thing. It does give some indication as
43:46
Speaker 1: to possibly where the shooter was standing. And there's also
43:49
Speaker 1: been a lot made about not having the weapon or
43:51
Speaker 1: not finding the weapon, but oftentimes we don't have the weapon.
43:55
Speaker 1: When we go to trial, we don't ever find the weapon,
43:58
Speaker 1: and that's one of the things that is just I guess,
44:01
Speaker 1: sort of smoking mirrors that the defense is trying to
44:03
Speaker 1: throw out. I think the defense is also trying to
44:06
Speaker 1: set up that it's not just that it's the murder weapon.
44:09
Speaker 1: It's said they could be a stolen weapon that came
44:12
Speaker 1: off of their property and they don't know where it
44:14
Speaker 1: is and they don't know what happened to it. So
44:16
Speaker 1: I think that's also part of the mystery behind which
44:20
Speaker 1: weapon was used and was it Paul's actual three hundred blackout.
44:24
Speaker 1: Leonard Romero, ballistics expert, let me talk to you about
44:27
Speaker 1: this ejection theory. As doctor Dupree just said, typically cartridge
44:35
Speaker 1: will eject to the right of the gun, of the shotgun,
44:38
Speaker 1: the long gun, and maybe a little bit backwards. And
44:41
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how the defense went round and round,
44:45
Speaker 1: establishing that I can see where they're going with this.
44:48
Speaker 1: Exactly what Dupree just said. They're going to argue about.
44:51
Speaker 1: Could there be two people standing in two different places
44:55
Speaker 1: in that dog kennel when the shootings went down? But
44:59
Speaker 1: the reality is is the surface on which the cartridge falls.
45:04
Speaker 1: If I remember a case where a murder took place
45:07
Speaker 1: in a bedroom, the victim was lying in the bed
45:09
Speaker 1: was set up to like suicide. We were looking at
45:12
Speaker 1: where the cartridges went and if it's carpet, it could bounce,
45:16
Speaker 1: If it hits tile, it could go somewhere else. But
45:18
Speaker 1: wouldn't you agree It typically ejects to the right, and
45:22
Speaker 1: usually a little back over your shoulder, typically to the right. Yeah,
45:26
Speaker 1: that's correct, Dency. If we're dealing with a semi automatic shotgun,
45:30
Speaker 1: yes it's to the right, and with this blackout three hundred,
45:33
Speaker 1: it's going to be to the right. What's interesting also
45:36
Speaker 1: about this case is if you look at the sled
45:39
Speaker 1: officer's diagram, you'll see items two through seven, which are
45:44
Speaker 1: the three hundred blackout cartridge cases kind of going in
45:47
Speaker 1: an arc towards Maggie away from Paul. You're correct in
45:53
Speaker 1: that the surface does play a big reasoning or a
45:59
Speaker 1: big hindrance if you will, as to where the cartridge
46:04
Speaker 1: case and can land and when we're trying to do
46:08
Speaker 1: ejection pattern analysis. But if you look at this crime scene,
46:13
Speaker 1: you'll see also right behind Paul there's a shot gun
46:17
Speaker 1: wad that's labeled as photo ID number one, and that's
46:22
Speaker 1: right directly behind him. And then if you look in
46:25
Speaker 1: front of him going towards Maggie, you will see what
46:29
Speaker 1: looks like an arc of cartridge cases and those my
46:33
Speaker 1: understanding photo IDs two through seven or the three hundred
46:38
Speaker 1: blackout cartridge cases. But it is a dynamic crime scene.
46:43
Speaker 1: People are moving, the individual is moving, victims could be
46:48
Speaker 1: moving at the time. So again, those are all factors
46:51
Speaker 1: that have to be played are considered when you're doing
46:54
Speaker 1: these ejection pattern analysis. You're so right, Leonard Romero, Cheryl
46:59
Speaker 1: McCall with me, forensics expert. Maggie we believe was running.
47:05
Speaker 1: We believe she was running from the shooter. Talk about
47:09
Speaker 1: a dynamic crime scene. Yes, people were running and moving
47:14
Speaker 1: and screaming. So I think that that is going to
47:17
Speaker 1: benefit the state, but yet it will give the defense
47:21
Speaker 1: a toe hold. They're going to argue that cartridges were
47:24
Speaker 1: in different places, so that would indicate a second shooter.
47:27
Speaker 1: Of course, that see anything but true. Well, again, if
47:31
Speaker 1: Paul was shot first form, we all believe Maggie was
47:35
Speaker 1: aware of that at some point, especially with the second shot,
47:38
Speaker 1: with the shot the chest in the head. At that
47:40
Speaker 1: point she is running to try to save herself and
47:44
Speaker 1: the shooter is now hunting her. So again, I think
47:47
Speaker 1: it's really important that we understand was Paul out there,
47:52
Speaker 1: you know, and where his mother was when the murder?
47:56
Speaker 1: The third? But Alec was he hunting hog? Was he
48:00
Speaker 1: hunting his family? So I'm gonna tay you something. Nancy,
48:03
Speaker 1: not his brothers, not his law partner's got his brand's
48:06
Speaker 1: got other family members. Nobody has been named the law enforce.
48:10
Speaker 1: They go out and find the real killer. Nobody's hired
48:13
Speaker 1: a private investigator. The community at large is not afraid
48:16
Speaker 1: of someone. Luke, excuse me, loose madman on the run.
48:20
Speaker 1: You know, I was just thinking about something else, And
48:23
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to our cut four to the control room.
48:26
Speaker 1: And I really appreciate you playing this sound in the
48:30
Speaker 1: control room because I want everybody to hear what's happening,
48:34
Speaker 1: not just me telling you what happened, but for you
48:36
Speaker 1: to actually hear we've been recording it for you. They
48:40
Speaker 1: better be careful when they keep talking about what a
48:43
Speaker 1: great marriage they had. Take a listen to our cut four.
48:47
Speaker 1: How is your relationship with Maggie as good as it
48:50
Speaker 1: could possibly be? I mean, you know, we had our issues,
48:54
Speaker 1: but wonderful and we really didn't argue about much. Man,
48:58
Speaker 1: how much too are you of Uh? Take time because
49:16
Speaker 1: he was a wonderful girl. I have a wonderful wife.
49:20
Speaker 1: She was a great bu She you know, she didn't work,
49:26
Speaker 1: and she always said it was her job. She was
49:32
Speaker 1: privileged enough not to work. She was gonna make sure
49:35
Speaker 1: she took care of me and the boys. And I
49:37
Speaker 1: mean she did everything, TV did absolutely everything. I'm sorry, no, no,
49:47
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you something. Uh. If someone asked my husband,
49:53
Speaker 1: how's your marriage with Nancy and he said, well, it's
49:56
Speaker 1: as good as it can be, my head blow off.
50:01
Speaker 1: Because if somebody asked me about how is my marriage
50:04
Speaker 1: to David, I'd say next to having the twins. It's
50:08
Speaker 1: the best thing I ever did in my life. I
50:10
Speaker 1: only wish I had done it earlier. As good as
50:13
Speaker 1: it can be? Really, I mean, Cheryl helped me. If
50:19
Speaker 1: anybody said, well, as good as it can be, and
50:22
Speaker 1: you're telling them there's some problems there, it ain't great.
50:25
Speaker 1: It's not fabulous. It's not the best thing I ever did.
50:28
Speaker 1: He's not It could be, Nancy, It wasn't it natural.
50:33
Speaker 1: It isn't quite true that she didn't work. Maggie did
50:36
Speaker 1: do some work at the law firm as a book keeper.
50:40
Speaker 1: That's the last thing a mom wants to hear is
50:43
Speaker 1: the husband's saying, well, she didn't work. What raising two boys,
50:50
Speaker 1: putting dinner on the table every night, seeing that they
50:53
Speaker 1: do their homework? Can they do this and that? I
50:55
Speaker 1: tell you what, when I have a weekend, I can't
50:58
Speaker 1: wait to get back to work because I work harder
51:01
Speaker 1: being a mom and a wife than I do being
51:03
Speaker 1: a lawyer. For Pete's sake, she didn't work, and our
51:07
Speaker 1: marriage was as good as it could be. Nancy. He
51:09
Speaker 1: didn't just say she didn't work. He said she was
51:13
Speaker 1: privileged not to work. Let's not let that word go
51:16
Speaker 1: by the wayside, he provided her the privilege of not working.
51:22
Speaker 1: That's what he thought of what she did Doan, let
51:24
Speaker 1: me tell you what's happening next. This judge is running
51:27
Speaker 1: the courtroom as tight as a ship. He's a great
51:31
Speaker 1: judge with a great demeanor, and he does not tolerate
51:35
Speaker 1: any misbehavior in the courtroom. And he listens very carefully
51:38
Speaker 1: to both attorneys when they're making objections. But what's happening
51:42
Speaker 1: on the stand right now is telling you earlier is
51:45
Speaker 1: a former secret service person from the US Secret Service
51:49
Speaker 1: about how Paul Murdog's phone was unlocked. Now, I think
51:54
Speaker 1: the last thing he said was that they had used
51:58
Speaker 1: on multiple attempts to get into Paul's phone. Yeah, and
52:03
Speaker 1: it turns out after all that it was his birthday.
52:06
Speaker 1: And I can tell where they're heading with this, and
52:08
Speaker 1: last to you, I think we're trying to get in
52:11
Speaker 1: the snapchat video or the video he was sending just
52:14
Speaker 1: before his murder. I think that's where where we're heading.
52:17
Speaker 1: I think that it is too and I think we've
52:19
Speaker 1: got a lot headed our way. And I'm really really
52:23
Speaker 1: interested to see what they found on Paul's phone, as
52:26
Speaker 1: is everybody. I also want to know Rogan Gibson, who's
52:29
Speaker 1: this friend of his who we've already heard about. We
52:32
Speaker 1: know that this was sort of the last communic. This
52:34
Speaker 1: was the last communication that Paul Ride and it was
52:37
Speaker 1: raiders and what. I'm concerned that this snapchat it was
52:44
Speaker 1: also already sent to him, So I'm wondering if he's
52:46
Speaker 1: going to be one of our witnesses coming up that's
52:48
Speaker 1: going to be a huge piece of this puzzle. Yeah,
52:50
Speaker 1: his name is Rogan Gibson aka Roadie Gibson. I think
52:54
Speaker 1: he will be taking the stand. Guys, I didn't get
52:57
Speaker 1: to even a tenth of what we the notes like
53:00
Speaker 1: taking the courtroom today. Thank you so much for being
53:03
Speaker 1: with us, To the guests, and to you for joining
53:05
Speaker 1: us here. Goodbye, everybody,