Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / SMNTY Classics: Emotional Labor (Holiday Edition)

Transcript

SMNTY Classics: Emotional Labor (Holiday Edition) · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I Koch Steffan never
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: told you a production of iHeartRadio. And we are entering
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the final month of twenty twenty three, here we are,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: and that can be quite a stressful time. We were
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: just talking about four students who have to cram for exam.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been so long since I've been a part
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: of that life style, but I remember this moment.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally forget about that. Oh my gosh.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: And then for people traveling or decorating, cooking, all of
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: those things. And so in a recent happy hour I
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: mentioned are the emotional labor episode we did around the Holidays,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: which is very funny to me because we did that
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: as part of a sponsorship deal. And I feel like
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of times when a sponsor was like, can
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: we do an EPISO, And we're like, here's ten depressing topics,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: which one would you like?
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: Don't try to like catalyze on the idea? They like,
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: but we make it easier, yeah, and we're.
• 1:10
  Speaker 5: Like, it's still not easy. We're stressed out. We're stressed out. Well,
• 1:18
  Speaker 5: so please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie
• 1:27
  Speaker 5: and Samantha, and welcome to STEPHF Mo've never told you
• 1:29
  Speaker 5: a prediction of iHeartRadio's House Stuff Work. Today we are
• 1:42
  Speaker 5: talking about emotional Labor Holiday edition. If you all remember
• 1:47
  Speaker 5: a while back, Virget and I did an episode on
• 1:49
  Speaker 5: emotional labor.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: But today we're focusing specifically.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: On the holidays, the holidays and the work that a
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: lot of women do to make the holidays happen. And
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Samantha and I have already talked about how the holidays
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: are a bit of a source of stress for us.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: I like the holidays, I'll put that out there, but
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: they are extremely stresful. They are not relaxing for me
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: at all. I have, in general a problem relaxing. So
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: hard to say right. So in my case, when I
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: look at what's stressing me, it's the planning, the shopping,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: the making a food plus vegetarian because of my little brother,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: of course, getting the timing of everything right, bringing all
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: the decorations down from the attic, and that's down sets
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: of stairs, setting them up, getting the tree, it's setting
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: that up, the lights, the ornaments, hanging outside lights, finding gifts,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: wrapping them, writing cards, cleaning, and then the worst part
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: putting everything away stressed me out.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Just typing it yeah. I don't do any of those stuff,
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: and I'm still stressed. I barely like all my family
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: members getting gift cards. I am the best, worst, worst, best,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: because you know, I give them what they want, but
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: it's not very creative.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, we're going to talk about that a little bit more.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: That's interesting, I will say. I'm just gonna throw this
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: out here.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: From the research I read, a lot of people do
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: like gift cards. I don't. I'd rather get no gift
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: at all.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I would rather have something. If you were going to
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: give me a gift card, I want it to be
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: something that I will use. So if you give me
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: a gift card to Panera Starbucks, not gonna be as happy.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Oh no, because I don't go to those places, right, kidding, right,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Although don't get me wrong, sometimes soup is delicious.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: See what I don't like about gift cards. I'm wondering
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: if any of my relatives are going to listen to this. Well,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I'll say it. I don't like that you can't. I
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: don't know how much is on it, and I don't
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: like the moment of I have no idea how much is.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: This going to get me?
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Right, especially when it comes to bank gift cards because
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I really would just rather have money or check.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: That's going to be what it is.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I probably have at least twenty seven
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: dollars on past gift car cards.
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: I just, yeah, it is.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: It is a nice little trick because either you can't
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: spend it all right, or you're going to spend that
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: and then extra on top of that.
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: It's a gimmick.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: It is a gimmick. That's sorry, we're coming out strong.
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: Gift cards. I like give cards, Like I said.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: Oh well, agreed to disagree on this point.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Numerous studies have found that women experience and increase in
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: psychological stress during the holidays greater than what men experience,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: and that this increase in stress is worse in the US.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: I actually really enjoyed one of the interview subjects, a
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: male interview subject, when asked about this, he said, I
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: thought people feel stressed in the holidays.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: I thought they were like relaxing. I don't, I've never
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: heard of this. I wanted to hug him and be like, oh,
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: you wonderful. Someone's really been making this happen for you.
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: Very happy and bluss yes, hashtag blust.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Hashtag bloss from a two thousand and six survey conducted
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: by Greenberg Quinnian Rosner quote holiday stress has a particular
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: impact on women, who take charge of many of the
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: holiday celebrations, particularly the task related to preparing meals and
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: decorating the home. Women are more likely than men to
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: report an increase of stress during the holiday season. In addition,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: they have a harder time relaxing during the holidays and
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: are more likely to fall into bad habits to manage
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: their stress, like comfort eating. Women are much more likely
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: to shoulder the work burden during family celebrations. During Thanksgiving,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: women are nearly twice as likely to report that they
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: will cook sixty six percent of women versus thirty five
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: percent of men, shop for food fifty two percent of
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: women versus thirty two percent of men, and clean dirty
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: dishes seventy percent of women versus forty one percent of men. Men,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: on the other hand, are nearly twice as likely as
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: women to report that they will watch football twenty six
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: percent of women versus forty six percent of men. So
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: that's the end of a quote that was a whole.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Only a quarter of women feel that they can relax
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: during the holidays was another thing. I found and the
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: main reasons women gave for their stress were money, pressure
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: of buying and wrapping gifts, and lack of time. Another
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: study found women are twice as likely yeah, to be
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: behind the holiday feast.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, my mom is definitely a prime example of
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: all of these things.
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, my mom gets very, very.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Very stressed out, and then my dad gets stressed out
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: watching her, and so he gets angry, oh, and will
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: be a little snyed with her, and then she will
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: get more angry and more anxious because of that and
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: eventually call him a gas which is a holiday tradition.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: And I'm really excited.
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: I hope. I'm sure my niece may actually hear this.
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: Please don't report this by my mother.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: But it's become a kind of a holiday tradition where
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: she finally just breaks and become very country.
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: And call.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: And then she but she has this whole expectation that
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: it must be part effect. These are the things that
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: she has to do. She doesn't want to ask anybody
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: for help. It's probably gotten to the point that my
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: sister and sister in laws are able to take a
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: little bit of the responsibility, and she'll allow it.
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: But she also decorates in themes.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: So she decorates in all of the homes and it
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: is like Christmas threw up everywhere everywhere. Yes, because so
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: one side maybe like country Christmas and the others and
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: like fancy French Christmas.
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: Like it's just absurd.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: And and I walk in, there's waths at the beginning,
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: there's probably lights already on the outside. You go in
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: and there is the fake snow, cotton snow everywhere with
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: a little bit of glitter and all these figurings, stockings everywhere.
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: It is a thing.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: And I feel, yes, I've been very lucky, lucky and
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: privileged to be able to celebrate it that way.
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: But to me, I'm like, that's not worth it.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'll say that's a lot more than what
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: I am doing.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: I know my mother enjoys the stuff well to an extent,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: to an extent, and that.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Is something to say, is that some women really enjoyed
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: its thrive in it.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: And it makes me stressed out because I'm not creative
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: and I'm not very what's the word qut seed homie,
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: So I have no knowledge of doing that. I have
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: always get the sag Charlie Brown Tree because I think
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: it's fantastic.
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: And a few little ridiculous trinkets on there. I think
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: I bought some shiny balls, yes, to put.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: On their red silver and gold, because I don't like
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: the typical oh, you know, you know, and then but
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: that's it.
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: That's it.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: And then my friend bought me two little baby stockings
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: for myself and my dog.
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: That's cute, right, I don't buy that for myself.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: My I put up a tiny sag Charlie Brown tree
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: in my little apartment that you've seen, and all of
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: my ornaments are Harry Potter doctor, who's like Captain America.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: So it's a very personalized tree, yes, yes, which I like.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: And kind of going back to what you were saying
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: about your dad getting stress watching your mom, My dad
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: used to it's almost like he wanted to be involved, right,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: especially with shopping, and then he would get so impatient
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: and annoyed with the shopping that we would have to
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: leave early and we didn't even get done what we
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: had to get done. So we're gonna come back and
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: talk to talk more about that in a little bit.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: But okay, no surprise that this added stress we're talking
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: about is not good for our health. Research shows that
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: it can lead to anxiety and depression, specifically research into
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: holiday stress. There's a pressure to always do more. I
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: should be doing this or that, especially when children are evolved.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: Feeling like a failure, like.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: You're not meeting these standards that you're putting on yourself
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: or that you feel like society is placing on you
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: is not a good mental state, not at all. No,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: all right, So what are we talking about? What's going
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: on here? Several things?
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Actually, so a quick recap for me as well, because
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: I wasn't here to do the emotional labor episode. But
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: emotional labor means essentially it's unpaid. Usually, I noticed emotional
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: labor we do for those around us to keep them
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: comfortable and happy, and women do the bulk of it,
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: or they do in.
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: Our pop culture definition.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: The term emotional labor was originally coined in nineteen seventy
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: nine by Arlie Russell Hushchild and applied to what the
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: labor workers in the service industry do to ensure a
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: customer's happiness by putting on a happy face. Basically, so,
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: she argues that we overuse it these days and that
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: we severely muddle the original definition, but she does agree
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: that there is something happening, and we don't quite have
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: the language to express when we talk about women and
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: emotional labor. In her mind, we're conflating perfectionism and simple labor,
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: sometimes mental with emotional labor. Emotional labor does very culturally.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Somethings Americans point to as emotional labor. Other cultures would
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: view differently, And we would love to hear any of
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: the differences from our listeners. So if y'all know or
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: can say any of the differences, please let us know.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, please, So during the holidays, this work, emotional, mental,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: or just labor, whatever you want to call it, increases exponentially.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: The planning part is really key. That background mental energy
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: that you're expending on an enormous scope of people gives food, decorations,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: all of those things. The expectation is for the holidays
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: to be perfect and magical. If they aren't, which of course,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: they won't be perfect, it feels like failing, and that
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: is a lot of pressure. Making the holidays happen is work,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: and largely it is and has been women's work.
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: It's work. Yes, some women really love but.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Others not so much, or maybe it's just overwhelming and exhausting.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: Maybe like me, it's something I do enjoy it.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: It's a lot, yeah, and I don't enjoy it, so
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: I try to avoid it at all costs.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, it seems like you've been fairly successful. You're
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: not failing or succeeding.
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: I'm succeeding and not caring.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Historically, women have been responsible for making the holidays happen,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: going back to the eighteenth century and probably even earlier.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: Before women entered the workforce, is a part It was
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: a part of their duties as a housewife. This duty
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: has been solidified through various time periods and by various institutions,
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: cultural movements, and societal constructs like the cult of domesticity,
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: the cultivated image of the perfect housewife and mother, and
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: even religion. Kirk Cameron recently.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Posted a video directed at women in which she said,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: let your children and your family see your joy in
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: the way that you decorate your home this Christmas. In
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: the food that you cook, the songs you sing, the
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: stories you tell, and the traditions you keep several Christian circles.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: This is still viewed. All of those things still viewed
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: as a women's duty. To make Christmas run smoothly for
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: her family.
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: Oh that quote made me nauseous.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: It's it's not good. Yeah, it's really bad.
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: If you love it, then love it.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you do you but yeah, don't be sure
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: status and whether or not you're doing well as a
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: parent or a wife on that bs.
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah yet nah.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: And even as women have gotten jobs, the expectation that
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: will take charge of the holidays hasn't changed. Oh and also,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: just to be clear, being a housewife is a job.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: It's a job. It is very hard.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: It's just an unpaid and unvalued one. And yeah, why
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: is it that women's work isn't seen as real work.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: It's just something or expected to do without pay, without recognition,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: and perhaps it might even cost us to do it.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: Interesting, Christmas is expensive?
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: It is so expensive?
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: Are expensive?
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: Yes, we're going to get more into Yeah.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. As we've discussed on the show, women are still
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: doing more of the housework when compared to men in
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: heterosexual relationships or situations. They also are doing more of
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: the household budgeting, which is a major headache during the
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: holidays obviously, and also obviously being responsible for gift and
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: thoughtful ones can put a dent in a woman's finances
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: a huge did. Going back to those top reasons for
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: holiday stress, two of them, gift giving and money are
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: all wrapped up into this, and this further penalizes lower
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: and middle class women who might be working more than
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: one job and are enabled to afford childcare or other
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: help that could alleviate some holiday stress. So women spend
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: considerably more time and money when it comes to gifts,
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: more out of buying for a wider network of people
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: than a one on one comparison.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so to kind of explain that a bit more,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: we did want to focus on gift giving for a
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: second because that is such a huge part of holiday stress.
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: Wait wait, wait, wait wait wait wait.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Way back a host past host Kristin and Molly did
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: an episode on whether men or women we are better
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: at gift giving, So you can find that in archive
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: if you want. But right now, brief overview, there is
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: actually a decent amount of research around gender differences and
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: gift giving, and that research is found that in general,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: gift giving is important to our social relationships around the world.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Bad gifts can negatively impact relationships, and men are far
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: more judgmental of bad gifts, while women are more likely
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: to downplay disappointment to protect the relationship and the other
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: person's feelings, and women by gifts for a wider group
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: of friends, so they spend more money on gifts and
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: they are generally better at selecting gifts. This sort of
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: goes back to what we discussed in our original Emotional
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Labor episode that women are more willing to put in
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: the work and invest in friend groups other than men.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: That goes back to I know we brought it up
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: recently in our heartbreak episode, but how female waters have
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: more positive health outcomes than male widowers and they think
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: it has to do with this wider support group. The
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: research suggests that it has to do with this better
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: gift giving has to do with interpersonal interest, which is
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: having an interest in other people, and interpersonal reactivity, which
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: is the ability to take on another person's perspective. It
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: could also have to do with reputation or to create
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: a sense of superiority or indebtedness, or to show off,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: and or this expectation that we put on women that
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: we keep talking about that you have to be good
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: at these things.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: The research is also found women are both more likely
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: to give and to receive, and that men with more
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: egalitarian views and gay men were more likely to be
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: more involved in gift giving. One study found that male
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: to male gifts only accounted for four percent of gift giving.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: It also found that a lot of male gift giving.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: In a lot of male gift giving, the gift is
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: actually picked out and sometimes purchased and wrapped by the woman.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: In the context of heterosexual relationships, makes my heart hurt.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: If that's how.
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: You like it to be, great, why no presence, bro.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: My mom definitely did this any other The letter always says,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: like in her handwriting to Susan from Michael, like.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: I do have a tradition where my father sends me
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Valentine's Day candy and has for years, and he's so
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: proud of the fact that he has picked out the
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: candy for me, the specific whatever, handpicked and made sure
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: to tell me I picked this out for you, so
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: well I know that it wasn't my mother, right.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: Right, right right.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Yet another study into gift giving found women view gift
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: giving as a responsibility and obligation to be checked off
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: of a list that they sometimes enjoy and sometimes don't,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: whereas men see it as a chance to get something
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: for someone else that brings.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: Them as in the men pleasure.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: A lot of these studies were conducted in Western societies, though,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: so again, we'd love to hear from listeners from elsewhere.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: From a study called The Perfect Present, Gift giving and
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: gender norms among gifters, women ruled they not only spend
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: more time on gifts and give gifts to more people,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: but they also invest more of their ideas of themselves
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: and the relationships in the process. This is part of
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: what makes women the single largest consumer group worldwide. If
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: we align these fightings with poverty statistics, we could extrapolate
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: that ginger expectations and social pressures around gifting stressed women
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: both economically and psychically. Poverty rates are higher among women,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: and more than half of all children living in poverty
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: are careful primarily by their mothers. The average person celebrating Christmas,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Kwanza and Orhonka will spend eight hundred and four dollars
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: and forty two cents, up nearly five percent over last
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: year's actual seven hundred and sixty seven dollars and twenty
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: seven cents, according to prosper Insights and Analytics studies, we
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: could also bring into the conversation ginger toys and the
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: impact that it has on reinforcing ginger contracts. And you
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: can listen to our Action Figure episodes for more on that.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, and then there's the whole thing of giving women
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: sexy lingerie, which they might totally be into, but in
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: straight relationships unless a woman specifically asked for it. To me,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: it feels like it might be more of a gift
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: for the dude or like also a vacuum or something,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: unless again, the person specifically asked for it enthusiastically.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: I really want this, right, Yeah, I.
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: Really want an air fire oven.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: Oh she said it here noted noted.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: And there's a great example of this whole thing in
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: The Simpsons when Homer buys Marge a bowling ball that
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: has his name engraved in it and it is cut
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: to fit his fingers perfect.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: Yes, in all fairness, I'll be fair.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I was guilty of try and convince my little brother
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: he really wanted whatever video game I really wanted when
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: we were children.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: And he usually did. We had similar taste.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: But I'd be lying if I said I was being
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: altrue at that game.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: I usually minds so long, and I'm like, well, I
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: got to put some things on his right.
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: I love you so much, so you would love this gift.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: You would really dig it, anecdotally, continued anecdotally, my dad
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: never wrapped gifts, and the stuff he gave me was
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: usually a random assortment of items, like a football a
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: few years ago. Uh.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that sometimes I liked a lot of times
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: I didn't. I do the bee, my bee. That was
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: one of the random gifts that I think he just
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: didn't think I'd like, but I really did. My mom,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: on the other hand, gets me stuff based on something
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: I said in a random conversation months ago. I know
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of the says have also shown that women's
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: shop for Christmas all year round.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: Men started like the week of Christmas.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: And that is definitely my mother. She she shops all
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: year around. She sees a good sell, she will get it. Yeah,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: that is what I've discovered for me. She actually buys
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: based on past likes. Oh yeah, so I may no
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: longer like it, but it has a tradition to it,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: so I still end.
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: Up getting it.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: It was kind of like those wooden angels I said
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: one time, I liked one. I've got about fifty yeah,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know what to do with them.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: I haven't aunt who did the same thing. I actually
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: don't even remember saying. I like tea cups and I
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: can't drink tea, but she gets a.
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: Tea cup every year, so it's thoughtful.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: It is thoughtful, and they're pretty. I kind of use
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: them as a decoration. I remember once my ex boyfriend
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: he I can't remember why, but he was showing me
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: a screenshot of his laptop and it was around Christmas time,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: and one of the tabs was.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: How to wrap a gift and that made me laugh.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Look, I'm awful at wrapping gifts, and my mother is queen.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: She is the Martha Stewart of wrapping. It's always a
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: piece of art. I really wish I could show you. Well,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: I'll take Peter's pictures this week. But all of us
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: feel guilty in trying to open these presents because it's
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: so elaborately beautiful. Yeah, and I'm like, okay, I'm just
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: gonna put some brown tape on it. Yeah, maybe I'll
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: put the newspaper here and my name onto the bag. Awesome,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: I will say gift bags on my favorite thing.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like gift bags and tissue paper I do.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: I wrap my mom's gift because she wraps mine and
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: I used to be really good at wrapping, and.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: Something's gone terribly wrong. I don't know. I lost it somewhere.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: I lost my mojo.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: One year. I got pretty much everyone in my life
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: a gift a couple of years ago, and that was
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: a very expensive endeavor. But I have this note on
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: my phone that I open when anyone mentions something that
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I think would be a good gift for them. So
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: it kind of just I'm more of someone I would
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: rather get a gift that I know you'll really love
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: than just buy you something because it's Christmas time.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: And I've got to get you something.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Thus far, you've done really well with my gifts. Yes,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: I just take you off for drinks.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Oh I love that, though, I'd rather have that almost always.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: And I do want to say here, I.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Have plenty, plenty, plenty of female friends who are terrible
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: at gifts.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: Apologies, you know who you are? That to me? You, Yeah,
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: I love drinks, that's number one.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: And I have a few male friends who are really
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: great at them. So these are these are generalities we
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: supported by research, but they're still kind of There are
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: obviously exceptions, and it's really the societal expectation and pressure
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: that's the heart of the issue here.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: If that's something that you love to do, that's great.
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: I used to be really good at it and very thoughtful.
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: I just got really tired.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: It's exhausting.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: It's probably the main point of this episode could really
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: just be it's exhausting.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: As we're getting older, it's harder and harder to get
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: you something that you may not already have bought yourself sure,
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: or that you you know you don't necessarily need. It's
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: kind of hard because it's not like, oh, I have everything.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: What do you give to someone who has everything?
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: Right conversation?
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: In our society, we assume that it's in women's nature
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: to be more thoughtful and more able to manage the
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: emotions of others. It comes with the territory of being emotional,
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: which we all know isn't true. These things don't just
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: come naturally or easily for all of us. Also, these
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: emotions of ours only seem to be good when they're
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: boosting men in some way, and other studies have found
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: because women are painted as more caring and giving, they
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: feel the need to perceive themselves that way. So nevertheless,
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: then the expectation contributes to an environment that rewards been
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: for doing what women are simply expected to do and
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: punished for not doing it. And studies have found that
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: women do a brunt of the work of kinship that is,
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: an interpersonal network of family and friends, whether they are
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: hers or not, basically the work of maintaining social ties,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: which absolutely is work in the heterosexual context. If the
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: wife or mom dies, the work is left undone. And
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: it was spoken about yep, and the emotional labor episode.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: And one study posits that because the holidays are primarily
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: about children and traditionally children have been women's responsibilities by proxy,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: the holidays and making the magical has always become or.
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: Is women's responsibilities.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: I found a really interesting study about the work behind
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: what we culturally conceive as love that really made me
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: think about the gender differences and how we expect people
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: to express love for women. I would argue that this
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: planning of the holiday has gotten twisted up with how
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: we demonstrate our love and at the same time our value, Like,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: look at how much I'm contributing, and I'm not saying
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: it's wrong if that's how someone truly wants to show
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: their love, but the obligation to do so or else
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: be judged as not loving or caring. That's a problem
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: for me. My brothers, I'll say, they will help if
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: I ask with all of these things, the decorations in particular,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: but then it's my responsibility to delegate to.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: Show them how to do everything, and them.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Growing increasingly more annoyed, and all the while that expectation
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: is that I am the one that will do it,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: and that helping me is something that they do.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: I have the kindness of their hearts.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: And it should be complimented, whereas I'm just gonna I
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: guess spent my day doing this.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Anyway.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: And now we've got to talk about the kids, all
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: the children, the children. But first we've got to take
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: a quick break for word from our sponsor, and we're back.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: Thank you sponsor. Okay, So I'm a single lady, are you? Yeah?
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I've got enough stress, thank you very much.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: And Samantha and I have talked about the single lady
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: stress of being asked by all your family members why
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: you're single around the holidays. But I have plenty of
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: female friends who have children and they have things on
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: their plate that I don't when it comes to the holidays.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: A lot, a lot of very stressful things, right, so
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: many things.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, Taking pictures for holiday cards also defensive, and sending
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: those out, booking the photographer, finding outfits, choosing the best photo,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: handwriting messages and addresses, taking the kids to see Santa,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: baking cookies for a holiday function at school, tipping the
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: post worker, Contacting everyone and wishing them happy holidays on
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: both sides of the family if a significant other is involved.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: This is one of my biggest pet peeves. I do
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: not like that. Again, if you like it, good for you.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: But why am I suddenly having to contact your mom
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: and tell her happy holidays?
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: Anyway? So that's my problem.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Getting gifts for the kids, hiding those gifts, making Christmas magical.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: That might involve, you know, one year, my parents did
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: a whole They got on the roof and yeah, it
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: was a whole thing, and I mean it really did.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: It made it magical.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: But my gosh, it must have been so much work
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: a new one, moving the elf on the shelf, constantly, constantly, constantly,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: and smiling through all of that. That is a lot
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: of work and again exhaust sure. One of the biggest
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: things when you're looking at arguments around emotional labor what
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: we have sort of pop culturally been calling emotional labor.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: Just don't do those things then.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: And if you don't, you could not do them, but
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: it would come at the cost of disappointment of loved ones,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: maybe voice disappointment, right.
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: As well as probably judgment from some judgment.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: And in the case of a kid, it's.
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: Sad, I sad.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, It's expected that women will consider the feelings of others,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: so not doing so is seen as a failure, and
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: with kids involved, this expectation, reinforced by an enormous library
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: of holiday movies and women's magazines, is all.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: The higher, right, And obviously Kurt Cameron's little comment right
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: that was recently made, and I think it's fair to say.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: I know my friend groups, the men or the partners
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: and spouses have absolutely it is fifty to fifty for them,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: and they will do a lot of it as well. Now, yeah,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: but as we see, still not the cultural norm and
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: it should.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Be right absolutely in my family, I was just thinking
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: of the little things my mom did that made it
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: magical that I probably didn't appreciate how much work and
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: planning went into them. One of my favorites was we
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: make gingerbread cookies every year, which requires at least one
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: day to let the dough chill in the fridge and
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of cleaning afterwards. Are very messy cookie to make.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: She also used to make the gingerbread man or woman.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: One of them would run away and would leave clues
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: around the house as to its whereabouts. She did this
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: for the first time when I was fourteen, and I
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: loved it, wh like I immediately fell in love with
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: the whole thing.
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: That's really elaborate.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was so fun. She knows that really competitive.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Like I've said in previous episodes, she still hides Easter
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: eggs for me, but because I loved it so much,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: it became a thing she did every year, and she
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: confided me once I became older that she found it
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: really stressful because eventually, like you run out of clue ideas,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: that's like where else is it gonna go? So things
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: like that they really do involve a lot more than
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: perhaps we recognize. She also used to get out her
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: fanciest dishes, but over the years to make the holidays
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: less stressful.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: We don't do it anymore, right, My family has changed
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: holiday mills a lot, and it's become rather than the
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: full feast. Yeah, sometimes it's become sandwiches because my mom
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: is like, I'm not doing it this year. That's fair, mom,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: that's fair. Sometimes she will do a lasagna, so like
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: an Italian throwback.
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: Nobody my family's a time.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: And so she would do things like that as well
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: as like Thanksgiving.
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: If we had a.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Giant feast during Thanksgiving, Christmas is going to be lesser,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: really what we like. It's just kind of because she's like,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: I do all of this, and she puts so much
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: on her plate.
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: We all end up the sinking.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's fine, it's fine. She's gonna eat sandwiches. I
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: love sandwiches, but that's still elaborate sandwiches. My mom has
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: four types of bread that's on the table, as well
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: as five meats or options, as well as a lot
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: of sides, so it's still elaborate. But yeah, she's as
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: we've gotten older, she would slow down. But now that
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: the child grand children are older, she's kind of come
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: back to that mentality a little bit. Trying to celebrate
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: for the younger kids, but great grandkids.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we were there.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's kind of like back to Okay, we're
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: celebrating a little less because they don't know exactly what's
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: going on, and all of her grandkids are teenagers so
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: they don't care as much and we're all adult.
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: So but it's the whole thing.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: That's something that I've h and I don't want to
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: make it sound like so I cook the meal, but
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: my mom is there the whole time, and she's she helps, and.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: I have made it into a thing that I enjoy.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: It's just the stress and the obligation, mostly of the
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: planning and making sure everything comes out at the right time.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: And we have.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Slowly and it's mostly me to the annoyance of everyone else.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: But since I'm cooking it, I'm like, we're not cooking
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: that anymore because I don't really like it, and if
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: you want it, you can cook it. So our menu
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: has also gotten a little bit more condensed.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you've taken a lot more responsibility. I guess you're
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: the only female in your family, as I'm the youngest
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: and I'm not the only female. Yeah, I kind of
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: going to my sister and my sister in laws and
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: I just kind of show up. I'm still children treated
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: like at the teenager, which is cool. Yeah, I'm just
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: in the kids table, not do things great.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: I actually was thinking about that the other day, and
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I was trying to reason out why in my personal experience,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: the women do make the holidays happen. And one of
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: them is the whole reason I started cooking. Is I
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: had it in my head. I was I was in
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: high school. I thought, you know, when I get married,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: I won't know how to cook anything. So I asked
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: my mom one year, I want to learn how to
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: cook all of the things that you cook so I
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: can make it for what I thought I was going
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: to have my own family, and I want to be
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: able to do it. And just that tradition of passing
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: on recipes and traditions, and then from there it just
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: became the next years or practice year, and now every
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: years practice That's okay, I it is mostly my fault,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: that's okay. Also, my mom has a policy of silly
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: hats so we won't fight with each other. That is
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: surprisingly effective, and I think I should write a blog
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: post about it.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: If you know how to deal with the holidays, silly hats.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: But that's another example of managing the emotions of others.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: And it does feel like the holidays have been sold.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Is this wonderful time where everyone is happy, and if
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: that doesn't happen, then.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: You're doing them wrong or something's gone wrong.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: And the job of everyone making everyone happy falls so
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: often to women.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: And a lot of us I'm sure a lot of listeners.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: We don't get along with our family all the time.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: So it's like this one time of year, we're all
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: performing and if only we can make it this holiday great,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: then we can stay together. If I can make this
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: one good enough, I can keep this family together. And
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: that's something that I really internalized. I've recently come to
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: realize that my need to make people happy is so strong,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: and it's so much a part of how I've defined
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: myself for so long. I literally sometimes feel like I'm
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: a comedian coming on stage after the last comedian who
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: totally bombed, and I've got to like.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: Salvage this situation.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: And it's it's tiring, but it's to the point that
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: I made twenty dollars. Somebody gave me twenty dollars at
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: my dad's wake for being entertaining.
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: Entertaining. Yeah, I'm best.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm always seeing as the sarcastic, witty one. So
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: I'll come in with a little bit of banter and
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: then just sit quietly and hopes that no one brings up.
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: Hold, that's my new family tradition.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: It's a good one.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: So we see this in so many holiday movies. The
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: dad is working too hard, neglecting his kids, or his
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: kids forgets to get the gift, burns the food, which
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: sounds like this clause is one that's claus. Yeah, he
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: realizes he has to put in some effort. Even if
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: you look at Santa Claus. He gets all the credit
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: for delivering these toys one day a year, but Missus
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Claus is doing all the stuff behind the scenes all
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: the time, thanklessly, and gets no credit.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: So in a Bad Mom's Christmas, in which one of
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: the characters says, your mom, moms don't enjoy, we give joy.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I find that there's only a handful of a
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: much more Halloween horror movie.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: Person.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, there are a handful of holiday movies I watch
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: every year, and I find that the plot line is
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: always man working too hard, wife is doing all this
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: stuff in the background and like, one day, you're gonna
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: be so upset that you miss this time with whoever,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: poor Johnny.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: And then they do one they get like one gift.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's like, oh, it was the perfect gift.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: But a lot of times it was the wife who
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: said you should have gotten that months ago.
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: Right, it really is.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: I try to watch all of these holiday movies because
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'm failing because I don't like Christmas
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: and I've tried to make myself like it, and that
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: has a lot of emotional trauma baggage and that, and
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: which is the reason I don't like it. But I
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: do love watching holiday movies trying to get into.
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: The spirit and one of and my family watches it too.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: My dad's favorite movie is The Santa Claus Yeah, as
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: we just recently talked about.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: But it is.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Hilarious because he is an awful father, yeah, and the
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: only redeeming thing is he gets tricked into being Santa Claus,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: who's then again neglects is good because he has to
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: be Santa Claus. But everything's okay because he's Santa Claus.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Like it's just amazing, And the mom looks like the
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: bad guy just like in everything else. Yeah, step stepped
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: out and this one is just a complete idiot portrayed
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: as an idiot.
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: Anyway.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I also like that movie.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: But it is funny how it reminds me of There's
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: this list called the Iceman List. It's about how, if
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: you rewatch a lot of movies from the eighties, the
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: bad guy is actually probably right right.
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: And the mom in that.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Movie, I feel if you had an ex who all
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: of a sudden gained all this way and looked a
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: certain way and was saying, well, the sun is saying
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: the Santa Claus, I would have some concerns.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: Really, I think that's legitimate.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: He's not mentally stable. This is how he's trying to
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: win my child over.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, now we're going on a different road. Be
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: on the lookout for the Santa Claus, the Feminist Movie.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: Another thing I wanted to bring up is magazines, because
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: I've noticed around this time magazines filled with recipes and
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: life hacks to make it look like pulling off the
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: holidays is so easy, so it's supposed to look effortless.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: And I've also found so many advice pieces and articles
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: researching for this episode about how to fin all the
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: holiday things that you need to fit in on top
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: of a full time job with children in the mix,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: and make it look easy.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: And that's part of the equation too. Here.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Not only are we putting in all of this hard work,
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: we're acting like it's not hard work.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: We're hiding it away.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: And I feel like this is something as women were
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: conditioned to not complain, to be graceful under pressure, Otherwise.
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: You'll be the bad type of emotional. Right.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: You need to show that you have it all, and
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: that means you've gotten all of your holiday the core.
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, perfect place.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so many movies also about that, about putting up
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: the usually I find it in movies men do that
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: part then, but putting up the lights and competing.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: With your neighbors.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: So everything we're talking about in this episode is not
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: just confined to the home. It can even ripple out
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: to work and things like planning an office party or
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: a secret Santa exchange, or for those in the retail
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: or service industry, dealing with stressed out shoppers or diners
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: or what have you.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Right, women in general place really high expectations on themselves.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: We know this combined with the fact that for a
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: lot of us we grew up watching our grandmothers and
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: our mothers doing this holiday labor, and we feel the
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: need to fill that role, which is.
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: What you're seem to be doing, Andy, and I refuse
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: to do.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: All of this can be exacerbated by things like seasonal
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: effective disorder, anxiety or depression, And as I said, a
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: lot of my own background is that I have a
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: lot of trauma attached to this time of year.
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: So I'm like, this is the worst holiday of the
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: year and I hate.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Everything, but I'm trying to get it together and become
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: an adult.
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: And being like I can handle Christmas, I can like it.
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: My mother, God.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Bless her, she has tried for years because I've never
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: really liked it, and she tried for years from guilting
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: me to trying to make everything perfect for me to
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: get me to like this holiday because she loves it
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: so much. And of course they are very religious, and
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: that has a whole different perspective for them as well.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I think for me this type of year,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: I want to ignore it. And I couldn't imagine what
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: that would be like as a mother. Sure that just
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: that terrifies me. I'm like, I'm gonna fail as a
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: mother if I ever did become one, because I don't
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: enjoy these holidays. But I've been told as a single person,
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: if you had kids, you would like this holiday more.
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: You would understand.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: I can see.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: I can see how it's both extremely stressful but can
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: be extremely rewarding to make a child feel that type
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: of joy.
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: There's when my siblings who are divorced competition and who
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: can give the most or.
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: Make them the happiest.
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right about that. That as well.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: It's poof, that's one word for it. We do have
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: some advice.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: We try to end on advice usually, but vers we
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: have one more quick break forward from our sponsor.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: And we're back. Thank you sponsor.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: And yes, there are some tips out there if the
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: holidays are something that's stressful for you.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: Yes, here we go.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: So my people, we'll all stress stress out. So take
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: time for self care and then that might be whatever
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: you wanted to be reading, yoga, meditation, making time for friends,
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: or for me sitting in a fiddle position in the
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: corner waiting for the season.
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: To go away in the darkness.
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: Very specific.
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: I'm just saying, hey, you know it works for you.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Experts also recommend stepping back from social media if you
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: find yourself feeling stressed. We've talked about before. Playing that
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: comparison game is never good. It can make you feel
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: like everyone is having a better holiday than you.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: Everyone did a quote better job than you.
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: Love the comparisons.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: If you're not the one behind the holiday stuff, find
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: ways to support that person unasked. Stock up on wrapping supplies,
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: help with gift buying and wrapping, handle.
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: The cars through the dishes.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: If a child is in the mix, figure out if
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: they're going to need to bring dishes to school or
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: something like that. Coordinate with the extended family, and of
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: course notice and express your gratitude.
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: I mean, it is Christmas, tis the seasons.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: The season for that stuff. Yes, and again I do
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: want to say I actually, really, really really love cooking.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: I love the decorations. I honestly think if I didn't
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: do it one year, my brothers would not care. They
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: wouldn't care at all except about the food. But like,
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: the decorations is not their thing. But I really like it.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: But I don't like that expectation that I'm the one
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: that will do it. Planning this big meal every Betty's
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: favorite thing, although again I have started to cut back
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: on that. Yeah, and some things have prepped days before.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: And also I work and they don't give us the
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: day before Thanksgiving off getting all the ingredients, setting the table.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: It is a lot, but I have turned it into
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: a time that I get to spend with my mom
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: and we listen to music and we drink wine and
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: we talk.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: And I like it. It's one of my favorite things.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: I think that's my favorite thing about the holidays, spending
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: that time with my mom. It still sucks that if
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: one year I decided I really didn't want to do it,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: it wouldn't happen, or either my mom would do it,
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: and then I'd feel guilty about it. But my notorious
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: hatred of doing the dishes has led to me not
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: doing them anymore. My brother and his fiance do them,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: so that is it, Honestly is usually if I hate
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: doing the dishes.
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: Is he doing it because his fiance suggested it?
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I have no way of knowing without.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: Asking, but I mean he in particular, he knows how
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: much I hate doing the dishes because We've got a
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: huge fight about it one year, So.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: I'm glad that that's gone away.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: And yeah, until we start recognizing and valuing the work
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: women do, this is going to be a thing, right.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: And for those who have recognized, yes, that this is
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: what women do and have taken up part of the responsibility,
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: good job.
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, proud of you.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but I'm proud of you women that were doing
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: it all.
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: Right, and yeah, speak up, encourage others, be an example.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, and we would love to hear LGBTQ plus
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: stories as well, because a lot of this was specifically
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: heterosexual situation, so right, Yeah, love to know how it
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: plays out in different types of relationships. But that brings
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: us to the end of this, our emotional labor holiday.
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: Happy holidays, Holidays.
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: Hopefully they are not stressful.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: They're enjoyable and more than a freaking fourth of you
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: can relax.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: That blew my mind. It makes sense.
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: But wow, if you want to hide, you can hide
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: with me.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you want any company, Samantha, I'm always
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: available if you don't want me around.
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: Though.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: That weird thing that I start watching holiday movies, but
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: they're not really holiday movies. So you know the fourth
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: about die Hard, die Hard, you know, I hope we
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: have to talk about that. But then Harry Potter for
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: some reason puts Potter, it's.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: Both Halloween and Chriss.
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, fine, yeah, I do that.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: And then I do watch horror movies just to be
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: angry about not angry, but to put my emotions into something.
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, there we go.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Now I'm gonna do more destruction now with all of
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: these horror films.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: There are a lot of Christmas harror movies. I'm just
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: gonna put that out there.
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: I haven't watched.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: I might be on a panel about that actually coming up.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Somebody asked me, do you have any examples? Twenty examples? Okay,
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: I think you might be good for this, all right. Anyway,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: I did want to read some listener mail to close up,
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Everett wrote, I was really excited to see the episode
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: about farming in your podcast feed. I love the show,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: by the way, Oh thank you. I was excited because
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: that's what I do. I'm still in school, but for
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: a few weeks in the summer and on saturdays in
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: the academic year, I work with the Food Project. We're
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: based out of Massachusetts in the North Shore and Greater Boston.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: We do a lot of work related to the stuff
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: you talked about, food justice and social justice, plus a
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: youth component. A big part to me is how we
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: bring people from across these communities and sure we have
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: a diverse group. Every summer, we hire thirty six new
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: high school aged people in both our regions for six weeks.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: They work together on our farms. They could be from
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: a homogeneous sheltered community or a more urban one where
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: gardening isn't common, or any other background, and we meet
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: people that we wouldn't otherwise since the system doesn't tend
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: to make communication between these places very easy. I love
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: the Food Project and I love the people. I consider
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: it like family. We educate communities and the youth in
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: our programs, and there's lots of opportunities for leadership by youth.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: We build raisedbed gardens and urban communities that don't have
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of access to fresh food, as well as
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: distributing food at hunger relief organizations or through our farmer's market.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: We've done work with state programs to make farmer's markets
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: more affordable too. I could genuinely keep talking for three hours,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: so I'll leave a link to our website if you're
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: interested and that link is Thefoodproject dot org.
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: That sounds like you're doing amazing work. Yeah, that's amazing.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, food justice is something that's really important to me.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: This sounds really cool and we appreciate you sharing it.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Ruth wrote, I just listened to your Female Monsters show
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: and I thought of a couple of characters who are
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: tangentially related to the topic. Neither are truly monsters, but
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: they fit the parameters of a couple of the topics mentioned.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: The first is a character whose name escapes me, but
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: she was played by Isabella Russellini in the movie Death
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Becomes Herr.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: I've been thinking about this movie for so because I
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: can't I was like, why haven't we mentioned it? And
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: then there was then I thought it back. I was like,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: there are a lot of problems. Oh, I haven't seen
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: it within that movie, and I think it's satire.
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: It is shied as well.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: But this whole becoming young, staying youngest thing, beautiful saint,
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: then like, this is very problematic, and of course it
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: makes the male character the hero sure of all, the
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: whole thing kind of makes the met look at bout.
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: Yes, but it is a really good movie.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would have I mean a lot of
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: the monsters we mentioned their ultimate goal was youth and beauty,
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: and yes, that's why they did the things, the monstrous
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: things they did.
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: It's a perfect example.
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll have to check it out.
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: You haven't seen it?
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: No, my, oh my, Okay. Anyway, Ruth continues.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: About that she is the character who gives two women
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: played by Goldie Hawn and Meryl Streep, the power of
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: immortality and eternal youth at a great price. Of course,
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: while not strictly speaking a monster, she plays in the
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: fears of becoming old and ugly, losing their beauty. She
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: gives them an quote olixer to drink, and things do
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: not work out as they expect. I imagine there was
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: an unexpected moral in the story, But the evil beautiful
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: which remains the second is more mundane. But it makes
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: me stop and think about the naming of the character
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: and the TV show cheers the most terrifying thing of all.
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: I'm just kidding.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Fraser's wife is named Alilith. She is considered cold and calculating.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: She is a psychiatrist and very good at scaring the
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: crep out of all of Fraser's friends. She's very pale
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: with very dark hair, played by the amazing bb Newarth.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: She's not a true villain, but she is.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: Portrayed in that light because she is different from other women,
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: because she wants things her way, and because she's still beautiful.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: Is the naming of the character symbolic. I don't know,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: but it gives me pause to think about a couple
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: of characters I had otherwise passed by. Oh also, there
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: was a book written by an author named George MacDonald
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: called Alilith, which was a novel about this evil woman
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: from the Biblical story. She's quite a monster in that one.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: I love the lift yeah, forever and ever.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: And I didn't realize because I didn't watch the second
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: season and I just didn't pay attention.
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: Uh, Sabrina the new one, Yeah, Lilith is one.
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: Of the main characters.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: And I kind of completely forgot it completely, And I
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: was like, oh yeallo.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: A friend of mine brought that up to me.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, completely, like because I hadn't
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: watched it in so long the first season and then
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: I never watched the second and I just recently took
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: it back up and I was like, oh, oh.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I have got to say, I
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: am loving all of these uh horror, and yeah.
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: Please keep sending in suggestions.
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: I was gonna say, were gonna talk about this until
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: next Halloween? I love it.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: I would absolutely do you know I would? And I
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: always love a good recommendation for something to check out, right,
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: So please keep sending those are away.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: Right, just so you know, because we did have the
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: conversation about cuffing. We've had a couple of text talking
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: to us about cuffing and other people other podcasts talking
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: about it as well. As we got to mention when
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: they were showing us a whole list of the seasons,
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: and it shows like fall is cuffing season and this
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: is what this is.
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: It was really cute. I'll have to repost it, but I.
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: Liked it a lot.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: While we're here, we want to do some shout outs
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: while we were thinking about stress and loving each other,
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: and so the season best Forever to Pods, which is
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: a podcast by Alyssa who talks about friendships and the
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: great stories behind them.
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: And it's so great because I think it's such a.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: Different take on how to maintain or just talk about
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: amazing friendships that have happened or she brings on different
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: guests talking about different subjects, and then I think it's
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: really cute. And also some kind of brown podcast, which
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: is Natalie who identifies herself as indigenous black women, talks
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: about race and ethnicity and being multi racial in the US,
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: including interracial adoption which is rare, and she's also highlighted
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: November I know it's over almost as the Native American
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: Awareness Month, and she is brought in a whole series
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: called Red November and bringing in different guests and having awesome, awesome,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: awesome episodes about that.
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: So shout out to y'all. Yeah, we love it, Thank you.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, and thanks to the listeners who wrote in.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us, we would
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: love to hear from you. You can email us at Stuffmedia,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can also find
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast or on Instagram
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: at stuff Mom Never Told You. Thanks as always to
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: our super producer Andrew Howard.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: Thanks to you for listening, and we hope a lot
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: more good things are coming away. That's Boren's thing. I
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: don't know why I.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: Did it, but hey, go check out saber pods while
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: go say.
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: Up sab, brain stuff, all the things I love A lot.
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: More good things are coming here, lesurely.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: I hope that the holidays are not as stressful, and
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: if it is, that you have a chance to take
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: in what you need to rest.
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's a nice sentiment. Stuff Mom Never Told You
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: is a protection of iHeartRadio's house. Stuff Works.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: or
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: Wherever where you listen to your favorite shows.