Latest / Career Identity + Growth Conversations for Professional Women: Exposing the Hidden Reality / 061: Dr. Wende Logan-Young: When Good Ideas Get Rejected at Work

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061: Dr. Wende Logan-Young: When Good Ideas Get Rejected at Work · Career Identity + Growth Conversations for Professional Women: Exposing the Hidden Reality

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, Annette. I'm really excited to do this episode today.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: We took a little detour at the beginning of October
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: to talk about what had been going on in the
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: news and bring it back into the topics that were
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: concerned about systems bias and how women experience the world.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: But we had always planned to talk about breast cancer
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: during Breast Cancer Awareness Month in October.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: October.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: So very excited to talk about this story that's going
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: to kick us off and what's really underneath.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: If you'd like to keep updated on the conversations that
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: we're having every week, please remember to like, And subscribe
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: and follow on whatever platform you're listening to us or
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: watching us on now so that you get updated as
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: soon as we release our next conversation.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: You don't want to miss our conversations. My goodness gracious. Right.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: What are you even doing with your time if you're
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: missing it?
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I know. Like, really? Like, we're the hip and happening show.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: In our own minds, we really are the hip happening show. Yes.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Correct. And I'm curious, have you ever done a job
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: long enough to see a better way of doing that
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: work and then wondered whether you were the person to
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: do something?
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: So yes to part one. And part two, I always
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: assume I'm the person that has to do something about it.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: I think that might be part of the eldest daughter
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: syndrome that you and I both are stricken with. So yes,
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: I've done a job long enough to see where something
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: needs to be addressed. And also, yes, I assume that
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: I'm the one to address it. How about you?
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Well, yes. But I'm not sure that I feel as
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: confident sometimes about whether or not I'm the person to
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: address it. Sometimes I have experienced pushback when I identify
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: something for change and then try to address it. That's
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: what we're going to be talking about. I found out
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: about Dr. Wendy Logan Young when I went on my
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: retreat in September out in Oregon. We talk about our
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: women and systems. and building awareness around the systems that
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: impact women. What are some systems?
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Are we aware of them?
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: How do we engage with them in a way that
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: is constructive for the betterment of everyone? How do we
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: challenge constructively? The retreat leaders introduced us to someone they
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: actually know personally. And I had never heard of Dr.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Wendy Logan Young before. And once I found out about her,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: her story just stuck with me deeply because I think
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: she encompasses everything that you and I talk about on
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: a consistent basis. Dr. Wendy Logan Young is the person
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: who actually changed the medical practice of how mammograms are read.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: So picture this. This is the early 70s. Women in
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: medicine is not a common thing. So she's already facing
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: bias and pushback. in terms of gender in a field
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: that is traditionally very male dominated and still continues in
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: many ways to be. And she arrives at this hospital
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: and is assigned the radiology department. The problem that she
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: sees is that when women went for a mammogram and
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: the radiologist saw something that really did need to be
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: investigated because it was likely cancerous or precancerous, those were
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: referred to surgeons to read the mammogram and then speak
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: with the patient. And Dr. Wendy Logan Young was saying, look,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: the radiologists can read these. The patient is right there.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: We can talk to the patient right away and get
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: the process moving faster because the surgeon may not follow
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: up quickly. There may be a backlog. People might slip
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: through the cracks. And by then, it may be too
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: advanced when we could have caught it earlier. She really
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: advocated to change patient care. And of course, she met
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: with a lot of resistance because we've always done it
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: this way, right? What's your favorite pet peeve? I've always
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: done it this way.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: Ugh, it's the worst.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: What she ended up doing was she actually left the
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: hospital and started up her own practice. I love that.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: And she was basically making no money. She actually had
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: to make arrangements to.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Work three days at a local.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Hospital to make enough money to actually pay for the
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: equipment and.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: The people who worked for her.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: It wasn't until some really high-profile women came talked about
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: their cancer diagnosis and the early detection that came.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: As a result of the work that she was doing.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Changed the way breast cancer is diagnosed. So her story
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: stuck with me because in an IT career, I was
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: often one of the people who was introducing change. And
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: change is not comfortable for people, period. End of story.
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  Speaker 1: We all want change, but you go first because I
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: don't want to have to change because I'm not the problem.
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  Speaker 1: You're the problem. And so that's the challenge. Everybody wants change.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: No one wants to be the one who changes. And
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: that's an automatic friction point or tension point between the
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: people who are creating the change and the people.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: Who are happy with the status quo.
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  Speaker 1: As a woman in a field that's primarily male dominated,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: having to change that system itself. It's daunting. I don't
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  Speaker 1: know that I personally would have had the stamina or
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: the leadership to pursue that kind of a change. That's
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: what I want to talk about today. It is Breast
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Cancer Awareness Month.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Please go get screened.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: But more importantly, we owe a debt of gratitude to
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: a woman who decided, I'm going to battle this. And
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: I know that it may impact me financially, but I
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: know this is the right thing to do.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Dr. Wendy Logan Young, for doing that.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, her idea is the standard of care right now.
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  Speaker 3: There's a specialty of breast health or women's health. usually
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: at most large hospital systems. And that is really due
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: to her breakthrough and her idea, her concept. If I can,
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: I'd like to bring a little bit of attention to
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: the fact that she had to go outside of the
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: normal system. She did not stay at her healthcare system
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  Speaker 3: and decide to change it. She said, I'm going to
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: create something new and invite everybody else into something that
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: I created. She did try. And then she cut her
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: losses and was like, pfft. It's not going to happen here.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: And Sandra, we talk about that all the time. I
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: feel like every episode has this theme of the system
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: I'm in right now is not working for me. What
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: do I do? And so, right, you can stay. You
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: can stay within the system. You can sludge through it.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: You can stay and decide you're going to lift your voice.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: and be an advocate for true change. Or you can
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: go and work outside of that system to invite change
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: at a different, in a different way, I guess is
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: what I'd say. I like her willingness to step outside
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: and say there's something better if I walk away. I
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: think this is like any big transition, Sandra, a job transition,
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: deciding to move your family to a different location. There's
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: all kinds of questions that come up and you have
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  Speaker 3: to ask, What's right for me? What's right for the
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: other people involved? And what's possible for us? And sometimes
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: that means that we're not making a big, huge transition.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: We're not changing the system. Or is it a smaller change?
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: I can't stay in this job. It's making me crazy.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to get a new one. But do
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: you do that within the company? or outside of the company,
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: there's lots of different decision points that are available to us.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Of course, I'm a let's burn it all down
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: and start from the beginning kind of person, right? That's
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Scorpio in me.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: I love burning it down and starting from the beginning.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: I think I told you like to that party, I'll
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: bring the matches. Completely okay with that. And if it's
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: not something that can be done because of other circumstances,
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: like what if you have small children, right? Can you
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: really burn it down? But maybe once you're an empty nester,
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: you're like, yeah, burn it down. So there might be
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: points of decision that are different depending on the stage
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: of life that you're in.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Everybody watch out for me next year. I think the
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  Speaker 1: other part of this, it ties into a conversation that
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: you and I had when we were discussing the book,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Invisible Women, that So much of the medical community was
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: and still continues to be focused around the male body,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: not the female body. The data sets that talk about
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: women's health in 70s and 80s, it was based on
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: a man of a certain size. And even we've talked
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: about racial disparities, Black and non-Black racialities. communities were not
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: even part of the data set. They were all kind
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: of lumped in. And even with women, we still don't
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: have a data set of analysis that says white women,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Black women, Hispanic women. There isn't even that. There's women
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: and there's men.
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  Speaker 2: There's Black or there's white.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: There isn't that granular data set of information that can
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: provide us with the kind of guidance that we might
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: need at a more granular level.
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  Speaker 3: It's really a challenge. And it's so amazing that she
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: was able to see outside of it, had the support
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: that she needed to say, let's burn it all down.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: And start over again.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Well, and I'm not sure she burned it completely down,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: but let's build it a different way. It's just my
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Scorpio-ness that says, let's burn it all down, right?
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: I just wanted to describe it in the most Sandra-like term.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I'm not really a Scorpio. I'm just a
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Scorpio rising. So my real nature is completely Taurus, stubborn.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: So I think it's one thing when you actually.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: see the gap.
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  Speaker 1: The challenge is what happens when you actually try to
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  Speaker 1: address it, or it takes you beyond what your assigned
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: role is. You could go to your boss and say,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: this is what I want to do. And they're like,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: I hired you to do this. And this is what
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: you're going to do, not.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: That over there.
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  Speaker 3: I think that happens to everybody in their professional role
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  Speaker 3: at some time. Similarly, if I can tie it back
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: to a job search, right? You're looking for a new
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: role and you're trying to understand what it is that
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: they need so that you could talk about yourself in
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: the proper terms. For example, if you look at a
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: job description when you're transitioning, that's the wishlist. That's what
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: the hiring manager wants. That's their unicorn candidate. When you're
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: looking inside an organization and saying this needs to change,
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: then how you're going to do that is somehow to
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: build a business case. What's the payoff? What's the time savings?
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: What's the experience enhancement for the customer or the client?
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: tying it back to a greater good usually gets you
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: some sort of progress towards making a change that maybe
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: you don't really have responsibility for and isn't in your
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: normal job title. But obviously you're seeing something in your
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: role that you can tie it to. So what is
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: that thing? And then are you talking to the right
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: people to build an alliance around? Here's a great idea.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: How do we move this forward?
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  Speaker 1: Have you seen organizations that do this well where you
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: can come up with an idea and present it to
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: folks and maybe have them run with it?
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, I can talk about one in theory. Google
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: used to assign some time to work on your own
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: personal projects, and I'm not sure that they still do that.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: But sometimes organizations build that in if organizations allow cross-functional work.
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: or they allow you to work on a project outside
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: of your normal team assignment, that's usually a place for that.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: If you belong to a business resource group or an
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: employee resource group, that is a great place to float
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: ideas because you're in there with a bunch of people
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  Speaker 3: that are all across the organization. So you're not only
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: stuck in whatever silo you're a part of, and it
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: can really help further the conversation.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I've been out of corporate for 10 years now, almost 11.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: But one of the things that the company I used
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: to work for did was they had they had two
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: events that I thought were really fabulous. The first one
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: was they had a code jam. They take like a
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: weekend or a 12 hour stint or I don't remember
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: exactly all the different parameters. But the whole point was
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: you got a whole bunch of people in a room.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: You gave them lots of caffeine.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Sounds like my place.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: You had to build a functional prototype by the end
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: of the session. And then the big ideas kind of
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: moved forward. If there was something that you wanted to
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: really explore, the resources were there. And then the other
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: thing that they did was they would allow people.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: To submit ideas via this platform.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: System for new products or new approaches or new processes,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: they would have everybody in the company vote on those ideas.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: And the ones that floated to the top after a
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: certain period of time, the person who made The suggestion
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: was assigned as the project leader and they got people
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: from different groups or people could apply to work with
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: them on that idea. And they were assigned an appropriate
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: mentor from the relevant area. So if it was a
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: product idea, they were given a product. manager that could
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: work with them on that idea to develop the whole
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: business case, to develop the idea further, to do mock-ups,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: whatever they needed. And then you were invited to do
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: the presentation in front of a group of business leaders
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: who would decide on which ones were the ones that
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: they wanted to move forward. There was a second round
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: where if you were elected to move forward after that
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: first initial round, you were actually given resources to start
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: mocking up and building up a I thought that was fantastic.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: I actually worked with a team.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: We didn't make it past round one, but we certainly
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: made it into round one. And the exposure to the
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: business people during that, the exposure to be able to
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: present in front of a group of business leaders was phenomenal.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: Exactly. I love that. And then let me ask a question.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: When you submitted the idea, did you have to have
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: some kind of business case behind it initially, like some
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: thought on what it would do? Or did you have
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: to tie it to the company competencies? How did you
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: submit it so that it could get prioritized?
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: At the very first stage, it was just a, hey,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: I think this. You didn't have to build very much.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: But If your idea got selected to move on to
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: the next stage, then that's where you went out and
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: did the research and you built the business cases.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: It was very interesting.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: And so maybe the lesson for organizations or leaders in
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: what you and I have seen in our corporate careers
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: is that we have to create a space to let
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: ideas come in. We can't be so closed off that
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: we're not listening. We're not entertaining other ideas. successful brainstorming
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: would allow that, right? It is like a team level.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: So is there a time and a place where you're
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: openly discussing ideas and not shutting them down, but just
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: collecting them to see what is out there? Because we
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: have these frontline people seeing things, but we often don't
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: give them an outlet to try them out or talk
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: about them some more.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: And what I find as I get older, because I
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: have the gray hair to prove it, is that often
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: the good ideas come from the most unexpected.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: One of the books I just read was How Leaders
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: Learn by David Novak. And he was talking about getting
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: outside of your normal experiences. And then something good comes.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: He's talking about Van Gogh and he was talking about
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: the designs in Van Gogh's art, especially his later works
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: and how they were mathematically true. The circles in some
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: of his art and design and the things that we
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: think are beautiful, the things that we think have ideas
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: or have merit sometimes can be proven through a different path.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: And maybe we should be exploring our creativity. Maybe it
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: leads us to something else. When Dr. Wendy Logan Young
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: was saying, why can't the radiologist talk to the patients?
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: That was way beyond the realm of possibility. then. But
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: now we expect that. Now we literally log onto MyChart
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: and send a message to our provider without thinking twice
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: about it. And so think about that. She was very
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: specifically talking about a mammography result. And now it's the
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: business of medicine is really done that way. And it's
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: that small idea that there's this one population of people
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: that needed different treatment. And now it's become the standard
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: for others. It's become this universal truth for others.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: I wonder too, if there's an element in this that
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: has to do with what happens when I present an
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: idea and I met with resistance and do I use
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: that as a way to get creative? Do I use
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: it to build my business case or do I use
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: it as a way to say, Oh, See, I knew
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: it wasn't going to work and then just walk away
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: from it. Do you know what I mean?
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: And then the flip side of that is as the
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: leader is somebody who's being presented with this idea. What
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: is our instinctive reaction? Is it supportive or is it
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: to throw up the wall and say we can't go there?
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: And how might things change if we got more curious
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: about it rather than to be the one who throws
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: up that resistance block? When I think about some of
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: the scenarios that I've been in, sometimes when people come
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: to me with, I want to do this, is don't
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: come to me with problems, come to me with solutions.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: And that sometimes one of the things that we do
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: is we throw up resistance, not because we're really fighting
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: the idea, but because if you tell me now I'm
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: responsible for figuring out how this is going to work,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: and I don't know, and I don't have time for this.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: So there's the challenge of, okay, I don't have time
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: for this right now. I got work I got to
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: do and we're so overwhelmed and I don't want the responsibility.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Does that make sense? It does.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it does make sense. And so as a leader.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: You're trying to ask the question of where's my role
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: in saying, yes, that's a great idea and it's not
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: a priority or yes, that's a great idea. And even
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: though I can't spare you and your work hours to
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: work on this idea, there's got to be a place
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: or an openness for it. Those are tough questions that
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: I think leaders struggle across all industries. And I don't
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: know that I am prepared with a solution for that.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: And I'm not sure that sometimes when people come to us,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure that they're asking us for the solution.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, I put myself in that situation because that's
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: who I am. If you come to me with a problem,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: I want to fix it. I'm just noticing in myself
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: that sometimes I pushed back, not because I didn't believe
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: in the idea, but because I couldn't see a way
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: through to working through that. But that doesn't mean that
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: I can't support you in wanting change.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: For you to move through with that.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Does that make sense? And I also have been in
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: situations where I really want to do something. And the
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: first thing I get met with when I say, this
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: is what I want to do is it's not going
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: to work because of this, this, this, and this, and this.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, like, do I even get a fair
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: shot at like presenting the idea in the first place?
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: Right. Sandra, if I can offer something here, I'm wondering
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: if we can stop when we're in that situation and
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: take a moment and ask a couple of questions of
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: the person that's saying no, perhaps we can ask, does
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: the idea have merit?
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Hmm.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: And what are some of the challenges you see with
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: this idea? And then maybe you would get some answers like, oh,
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: I see it as a time constraint. I see it
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: as it's not really in our department's area of responsibilities,
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: whatever it is. And then the other thing that I'm
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: hoping we can do in that moment out of general
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: and generous curiosity is ask, are they declining me? Are
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: they declining my ideas? so that we don't turn the
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: rejection of the idea into rejection of me personally. And
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: so we can say, I still think that was a
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: good idea, even though it's not possible right now. And
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: it doesn't become part of who we are.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: When the timing is right.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: And like you said, maybe this isn't the right place
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: for me to push this idea. Yeah.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: And so these questions or the tension that you're met with,
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: the resistance in the word that you used, maybe that's
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: an indicator that something else is going on and and
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: we've talked about it, I feel like every episode since 36,
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: but are you in the right place? Are you asking
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: yourself that question again and again and again? Is every
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: idea you have turned down? Is every concept a no?
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: Are you being made to do this very dry work
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: that you were hired for and not being allowed to grow?
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: Maybe that's trying to tell you something else about the
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: workplace you're in. And so maybe you can channel your
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: inner Dr. Wendy, Logan Young, and say, how do I
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: have to do this? What's next for me?
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Or even what support would be valuable for me? Because
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: sometimes we have a great idea, but we don't know
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: how to get it done because we don't have the
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: right support behind us. Back to my experience in my
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: last company where the idea was met with merit. They
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: assigned the appropriate resources.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: So the idea that.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: We were working on involved some information that we knew,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: but we didn't really have any. product information or product
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: experience within the company. So being assigned a product manager
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: allowed us to bounce through some ideas and see where
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: some of the roadblocks might be, or to really gain
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: some knowledgeable expertise about where we could go for the
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: next round of information and be presented with the questions.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Because sometimes the resistance that we face is the resistance
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: that the people that we're going to are going to.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Face if they try to push it up.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: The lab.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: So it's not even the idea doesn't have merit or
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: that you don't have merit. It's that these are the
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: questions I'm going to get asked. So you better be
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: thinking about how are you going to address these things?
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: It's not even resistance. It's just you have to build
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: some kind of a business case around it. Okay.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Bubble wrap.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: Bubble wrap.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: Tell me the bubble wrap.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Do you know the story of bubble wrap?
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: I have not.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Great. Okay. So it was invented as wallpaper.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: And you could put this up against your wall and
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: it would be kind of funky and groovy, except that
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: if you leaned against the wall, it would break. Right. Right.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: People didn't really like the texture of it and it
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: just never caught on as wallpaper.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine? So then fast forward now it's mid seventies.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: IBM has to ship out these computers. And in the past,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: shipping was always this precarious thing because they'd put newspaper
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: around stuff and package it up and send it out.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: And carriers would like whip things around or they get
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: tossed around. And so things would arrive damage. And the
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: computer is now something that we need to ship. And
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: people are thinking, how can we do this? Because this
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: is a lot of money. If it breaks along the way,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: it's one thing. If you break some China, it's a
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: totally different thing. If you break a computer, suddenly the
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: two inventors of bubble wrap as wallpaper are kind of
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: looked at their idea and said, oh. And so sometimes
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: your idea is just ahead of its time or your
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: idea is great, but you have the wrong application. So
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: it may not even be that you're in the wrong company.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: It could just.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Be that you're marketing it wrong. Like Post-it notes. Yes.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Do you know the story of Post-it notes? I don't.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: Do know that they were trying to make a different
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: kind of glue, right? Yes, yes.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: And what they found was it was really, really, really
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: sticky on the side that sticks to the paper and really,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: really not sticky on the side that sticks to the
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: wall until somebody said, hey, I can use this to
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: make notes and I can remove things named Sandra, who's
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: going to want them in 15 million colors too.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: And so how can one keep their confidence up and
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: keep proposing a change where they see an unmet need
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: or where they see a problem and they clearly see
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: a fix? How can we keep feeling comfortable and confident
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: making those recommendations when we haven't?
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: That's a good question. Maybe our listeners have some ideas
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: for us that they'd like to share. Oftentimes, I struggle
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: with something and I think I'm the only one who's
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: struggling with it. And it's not until somebody says something
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: and you kind of go, oh, we're all struggling with
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: the same thing. Maybe we should.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Look at it.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: And that might be a great thing to think about
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: at work. If you haven't had an idea accepted, but
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: you're losing the confidence to continue floating them, maybe you
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: float them at a different level.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: I like that. Yeah.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: So maybe it becomes part of a lunch conversation with
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: your normal lunch crowd, or maybe somebody with the same
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: title in a different department. Am I crazy? Or does
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: this idea seem just wild enough to work? And maybe
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: getting an advocate or a sponsor or somebody else in
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: on the idea gets it to where it needs to be.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: So I'm thinking of something.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: Okay, go for it.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Who decided that coffee sleeves were something we needed to have?
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: Coffee sleeves. Somebody that wanted to have hot coffee, but
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: didn't want to burn their hands off.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Right. And told- that they couldn't have an extra cup.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: So was it a decision like, let's go through the options?
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: You think it was an economic decision? I'm not giving
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: you an extra cup because it's expensive. Or is it
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: a safety decision? If you have two cups and you're
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: going to drop it, I don't know who that person was.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: Thank you, whoever you are.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: In all seriousness, the challenge often can be that as women,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: we see a need for women. And Because often we're
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: presenting that information to a male audience, they may not
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: also see the situation from that perspective, which brings to
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: mind two stories. It's even more evidence for why we
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: need to have diversity in the workplace. Simply because we
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: don't experience a particular problem does not mean that the
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: problem doesn't exist. It's just that it's not one of
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: our problems that we see. And if we bring in
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: enough diversity into the group, not just male, female, not
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: just racial differences, but even economic differences or even disabilities.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: What might product development look like or even innovation look
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: like if we approached it from a different perspective rather
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: than the way we see the world? Episode 16, we
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: interviewed Tina Wright, the founder of Grip Industries and inventor
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: of the heel sling.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: Talked to us in episode 16, and the title of
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: that episode was Comfort, the Real Power Move. Yes, and
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: she had an idea that she pursued for many, many,
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: many years because it met the need of her and
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: her child's foot. Shoes were often too big because she
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: had a narrow heel. Is that right?
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Am I remembering that? A narrow foot, yes. Yeah.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Or because we have feet that are different sizes, right?
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: We don't have identical body parts.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: Yes, correct. And she created something and pursued it for many,
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: many years. She never gave up on her idea. And
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: then she finally found the right people to invest in.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: help her bring the solution to market.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: And what she specifically said was she had presented the
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: idea to the venture capitalist, who was a man, and
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: declined the offer, but said, let me go get my
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: partner to come in and listen to what you have
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: to say too. The partner was a woman, immediately said,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: oh my God, yes, I have this problem.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: I need this product.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: And I think that sometimes the systems that we're trying
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: to change, we're presenting the ideas for change to people
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: who don't have the problem that the people who see
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: the need to change the system are experiencing.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: It is complicated. And I also heard you say something amazing,
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: which is the person that it wasn't for said, but wait,
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: I think I know somebody in my network that needs
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: to hear from you. As a leader, when we're sitting there,
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: staring at this great idea and thinking, oh gosh, I
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: don't have the time. I don't have the budget. I
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: don't have the bandwidth. I don't have the amount of people.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: Maybe we can stop and say, and who does? And
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: who needs to hear this?
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: And who in my network can I introduce you to?
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: And that seems less like a no and more like
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: opening a door for someone else.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: What would we like people to take away from this conversation, Annette?
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: What I'd like for you to take out of this
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: conversation is that you should keep pursuing your ideas. You
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: should find different ways to present them. You should find
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: different people to listen to the value proposition that you're proposing.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: And you should find a way to speak about your
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: idea aligned with the values of those you're speaking about
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: it to. And that would be the most agreeable way
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: to get your idea through the pipeline. And then I
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: would say, if you're a leader, when you want to
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: say no, think about who else could benefit from this
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: idea so that you don't have to say a complete
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: and loud no, say no. Not right now for me.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: And like, do you see in Shark Tank when the
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: other sharks are like, I'm sorry, this deal's not for me.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: But here, here, Sandra, you're shark number one. You might
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: really benefit from this one.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: I don't like being called a shark, just so we're clear.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: I think my teeth are a little nicer than the
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: normal shark. I think you're correct. And I liked what
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: you said earlier in the episode. Can we not take
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: the reduction as a reductionist?
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Of you personally?
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Can we look at it instead as I'm not seeing
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: a fit? Maybe it doesn't align with my business or
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: my interests and what I'm focused on bringing to the world.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: I think the example of Shark Tank is so excellent
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: in the sense that There are reasons that the sharks
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: reject the idea that have nothing to do with the
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: idea itself.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: It has more to do with.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: The kinds of support that I can offer you and
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: how this product aligns with the work that I do.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: And I can't support you the way I think this
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: product needs to be supported. And therefore, I'm out. Yes.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Therefore, you're not.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: And how many people have been rejected from the shark tank.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: And then later they find success on their own terms.
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: And so.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: Let that serve as a lesson that somebody had a
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: really great idea. The sharks said no, but it came
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: and happened later.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: And so that's, That always amazes me. And so thank
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: you again to Dr. Wendy Logan Young. Thank you to
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: the ladies that introduced you to her at your retreat
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: in September.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: And get screened.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: And by the way, get screened.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Please get screened. And if anybody out there is looking
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: at mammography and early detection, could you please develop a
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: system that does not involve squeezing your boob, please?
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: And actually, I was just watching.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: Go ahead.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Some of us would be really grateful to not have
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: our boobs squeezed.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: Yes. Some of us would be really grateful.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Especially those of us who are a little chestier than others.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: It's not actually the most accurate screening form.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, tell me more.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: They're just talking about like a. MRI, ultrasound might actually
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: be more effective. So yes, whoever's pursuing those less intrusive,
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: less painful, and more effective methods, we're behind you. Absolutely.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Standing first in line.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: Keep going.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Wonderful.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: Sandra, I would like to invite our listeners, if you
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: haven't already, to get on our newsletter list, which you
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: can do at exposingthehiddenreality.com. We send additional insights. You have
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: access to some of our resources. And we'd love to
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: have you and be talking to you one-on-one every single week.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: Thanks, Sandra. Get screened. Please get screened.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Please get screened.