Latest / Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast / Learning Engineers at Work: AI, Authentic Assessment, and the Student Story w/ Dr. Fonz

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Learning Engineers at Work: AI, Authentic Assessment, and the Student Story w/ Dr. Fonz · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
• 0:03
  podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
• 0:07
  Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
• 0:09
  as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
• 0:12
  technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
• 0:15
  conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
• 0:18
  we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
• 0:21
  and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
• 0:25
  and let's integrate this. Hey, welcome back to
• 0:41
  the Integrate This EdTech podcast. Today, we're
• 0:44
  joined by Dr. Alfonso Fonz, Mendoza, Jr., the
• 0:48
  founder and host of My EdTech Life. For the past
• 0:51
  four years, he's interviewed educators, researchers,
• 0:55
  and EdTech innovators to spark meaningful conversations
• 0:58
  about where teaching and technology meet. With
• 1:01
  more than 18 years of experience as a teacher,
• 1:03
  instructional technologist, and now a district
• 1:06
  testing coordinator, Fonz brings a thoughtful
• 1:09
  down -to -earth perspective on using technology
• 1:11
  in ways that are practical, ethical, and truly
• 1:15
  supportive of teachers and students. So Fonz,
• 1:18
  we're very happy to have you here. Welcome to
• 1:20
  the podcast. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate
• 1:22
  the invite, and it's just great to be here and
• 1:25
  just to be able to... Uh, just chat and chat
• 1:28
  education, chat technology with you both. And,
• 1:31
  uh, I'm just excited about this conversation.
• 1:33
  Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Can you, uh, start
• 1:36
  by telling us kind of the story of how you moved
• 1:39
  into these different roles that you have, you
• 1:41
  know, teaching, uh, to instructional software
• 1:44
  specialist, the digital learning coordinator,
• 1:47
  assessment coordinator, and even getting into
• 1:49
  a little bit to my ed tech life and how you establish
• 1:52
  that. picture? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that
• 1:56
  might be a whole other show, but I'll kind of
• 1:59
  keep it short, give you like the cliff note version.
• 2:02
  And I'm always going to start with this. And
• 2:04
  I'm always transparent. And I've said this on
• 2:06
  many shows, it's I never, ever, ever wanted to
• 2:10
  be in education. And, you know, and I fell into
• 2:15
  education, and I absolutely fell in love. with
• 2:19
  everything about it. So just a little bit of
• 2:21
  a backstory is grew up only child here in the
• 2:25
  southernmost tip of Texas, right along the border,
• 2:28
  immigrant parents working hard, but working odd
• 2:31
  jobs. Dad worked outside in a citrus farm out
• 2:34
  in this like the scorching heat of South Texas.
• 2:37
  And my mom just being a seamstress or doing odd
• 2:41
  jobs, you know, just kind of growing up seeing
• 2:43
  my parents really struggle, but struggle to do
• 2:47
  what's right for me and what's best for me and
• 2:50
  give me everything that I needed. But they always,
• 2:53
  always pushed for education. What really motivated
• 2:57
  me is they would always say, you need to work
• 3:00
  hard so you can work in air conditioning. That
• 3:02
  was their main goal. They just said, we just
• 3:05
  don't want you to be working like us. We want
• 3:08
  you to be in an office or work in air conditioning.
• 3:11
  And for them, that was kind of like, like they're
• 3:14
  it. Well, You know, being an only child, it's
• 3:17
  like the pressure still on. So I, you know, didn't
• 3:19
  learn English until I was in second grade. Then
• 3:22
  after that, graduated top 10 percent of my class
• 3:25
  here in our local high school. And that afforded
• 3:28
  me a lot of opportunities for education outside
• 3:32
  of high school. And so luckily, I did not have
• 3:36
  to pay any tuition based on scores because I
• 3:39
  received several grants and, of course, financial
• 3:43
  aid. I managed to get my bachelor's in business
• 3:46
  administration, which was my passion. I said,
• 3:49
  you know what, I want to go into business. I
• 3:52
  loved marketing. I love the salesmanship of it.
• 3:55
  I said, I want to make money. And obviously the
• 3:57
  end goal for any Hispanic kid is always like,
• 4:01
  I got to take care of my parents, you know, for
• 4:03
  everything that they've done for me. So did that
• 4:06
  for a couple of years. maybe about two and a
• 4:09
  half years and then fork in the road moment.
• 4:12
  My dad was, uh, fell ill and being an only child,
• 4:16
  obviously a lot of responsibilities trying to
• 4:19
  help around the house and help mom out and everything.
• 4:22
  And so the decision had to be made where I was
• 4:25
  like, well, due to my dad's condition, I really
• 4:27
  need to find a job that is going to afford me
• 4:30
  more time to be readily available. for my dad,
• 4:34
  should he need anything and taking them to treatments
• 4:37
  or being readily available. And so I transitioned
• 4:41
  into education. Dad's OK, by the way. He will
• 4:46
  be 89 in two weeks. And he is fine. He is, man,
• 4:52
  a little ball of energy. And I was like, man,
• 4:54
  if I can be like that at 89, I'd be so happy
• 4:58
  with as much energy as he's got. Uh, but going
• 5:01
  back to transitioning into education, a friend
• 5:04
  of mine said, Hey man, they're looking for math
• 5:06
  teachers and based on your, you know, your, your
• 5:10
  marketing degree and your marketing courses,
• 5:12
  and you had to do a lot of math and finance and
• 5:15
  so on. You probably qualify to be a teacher on
• 5:18
  an emergency certificate or certification. So
• 5:21
  I call gentlemen answers. He's like, yeah, come
• 5:24
  in tomorrow for an interview. So I went in that
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  next day and as soon as I turned the corner,
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  like a big familiar face like just popped up.
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  And it turned out that it was the husband of
• 5:36
  a high school business computer teacher that
• 5:40
  I had who turned principal in that district.
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  Well, my interview was 10 minutes. He said, come
• 5:46
  back tomorrow, fill out your paperwork. And that
• 5:48
  August, I started as an algebra teacher, ninth
• 5:52
  grade algebra teacher. And I was really doing
• 5:54
  the students that would take their state exam
• 5:58
  and then they didn't pass it the first time,
• 6:00
  they kind of come through me and then they would
• 6:02
  have to take that algebra class again to prep
• 6:05
  and so on. So did that for three years, transitioned
• 6:08
  into elementary for the following eight years
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  where I feel that I really, really learned to
• 6:15
  teach, you know, really cut my teeth. And that's
• 6:19
  where I fell in love with the tech and amplifying
• 6:24
  student voices. things of that sort. And that's
• 6:27
  really where I just kind of built this passion
• 6:29
  up for educational technology, best practices.
• 6:33
  So did that for eight years as a science social
• 6:36
  study math teacher. And then I transitioned into
• 6:41
  a service center role where I became the instructional
• 6:44
  software specialist slash digital learning coordinator.
• 6:48
  for about eight years where I was just in charge
• 6:51
  of providing professional development, you know,
• 6:54
  helping teachers with the platforms that we have
• 6:56
  available and just really building capacity.
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  And now as I transitioned into a district assessment
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  coordinator, that is kind of like a full circle
• 7:08
  of kind of putting things together. And I know
• 7:11
  assessment is a really dirty word that a lot
• 7:14
  of people don't like to hear. But believe it
• 7:16
  or not, in the role that I'm in now, seeing all
• 7:19
  that data and pulling all that data and seeing
• 7:22
  student work and things of that sort, you really
• 7:25
  get to learn a lot about your district. You get
• 7:28
  to learn a lot about your students. And now my
• 7:31
  goal is to see what I can do through my findings
• 7:35
  to help our students do better and how to help
• 7:40
  our teachers do better. Not necessarily as an
• 7:43
  I gotcha, but As a whole to say like hey you
• 7:48
  know it maybe we're all on this level playing
• 7:51
  field and making sure that we are all talking
• 7:54
  the same language straight across the district
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  how much more would that help. our students be
• 8:00
  better and, you know, still using the best practices
• 8:04
  from digital learning coordinator, instructional
• 8:07
  tech to really build up our student capacity,
• 8:11
  builders teacher capacity in this new role. So,
• 8:14
  yeah, that was that was a lot there, but we try
• 8:17
  to condense it for sure. I think one thing that
• 8:21
  I see is that a lot of instructional coaches,
• 8:25
  technology integrationists, you know, they are
• 8:28
  their districts are piling on other titles on
• 8:31
  top of theirs. So to hear you and when I listen
• 8:34
  to them talk, they don't always see how when
• 8:36
  they get. that we call it a DAC, a district assessment
• 8:39
  coordinator, that title gets thrown into their
• 8:43
  laps that they don't necessarily like that they
• 8:46
  have to split those two different things. But
• 8:48
  it seems like you embrace that because you see
• 8:50
  it as a way that you can take the data that is
• 8:54
  coming from that position and use it in an effective
• 8:57
  way to improve instruction. Yeah, you know, and
• 9:00
  to be honest with you, I'll be fully transparent
• 9:03
  to simply transition into this role. This is
• 9:05
  only my third month in this role. I believe there
• 9:09
  is such a thing as as grief and I I was like
• 9:13
  and there was a lot of tech grief in the sense
• 9:15
  of man, I'm not going to be able to be tech or
• 9:18
  doing going out to the campuses. And because
• 9:20
  that was my role, that was everything that I
• 9:22
  knew for those last eight years and being able
• 9:24
  to have the answers to everything because you
• 9:27
  already know how things are. So there was a lot
• 9:30
  of grief there in the sense of going into something
• 9:33
  new, having to relearn things and not having
• 9:36
  all those answers. But you know what? It's I've.
• 9:39
  embraced it and it was rough at the very beginning.
• 9:42
  And I just want to share that because there may
• 9:45
  be other instructional coaches or soon to be
• 9:48
  instructional coaches that may be moving into
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  roles at service centers or we call them, well,
• 9:54
  the district office, or we call it, we call ours
• 9:57
  our service center, or that may be working at
• 9:59
  a region service center where you're going to
• 10:02
  kind of feel a little out of place because You
• 10:05
  may not have all the answers like you once did.
• 10:08
  Things are done differently than they once were.
• 10:11
  So it's just going back to learning how to improvise,
• 10:16
  adapt and overcome. And that's been something
• 10:18
  that's been very helpful. But once you really
• 10:21
  kind of cut through all of that and then say,
• 10:24
  wow, like now I have this vision that I didn't
• 10:28
  have before. And now this makes sense, like everything
• 10:33
  that we've been doing. And now how can we tie
• 10:35
  these results to what is being done? And how
• 10:39
  can we tweak that to make this better for our
• 10:43
  teachers and make it better for our students?
• 10:46
  So, yeah, it's been very interesting, but it's
• 10:49
  been a great learning experience for sure. Yeah.
• 10:53
  And I wanted to have you touch upon one other
• 10:56
  aspect too of something else you're involved
• 10:58
  in, which is EduAid. and so we had opportunity
• 11:02
  to interview Thomas Hummel. Hopefully we'll get
• 11:05
  the other Thomas on at some point, but EduAid
• 11:08
  is a platform that really focuses on students
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  and is incorporating some of the AI elements
• 11:14
  that have come out and in comparison to some
• 11:17
  of the other AI tools. How did you get involved
• 11:20
  with EduAid and what do you find that's unique
• 11:24
  about that particular platform? Yeah, you know
• 11:27
  what, one of the things that has helped tremendously,
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  and I'm sure that if you both haven't seen it
• 11:33
  yet, you will soon as you continue to network
• 11:36
  and build and people see you as the content experts
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  that you are, that's really what it was. Just
• 11:44
  having them on my podcast when... Nobody knew
• 11:48
  who they were and just kind of seen like, Hey,
• 11:51
  what's this platform? And now I'm curious. I
• 11:53
  want to learn more. I want to give them a voice
• 11:56
  and, you know, just tell their story. So pretty
• 11:59
  much it was just kind of, that's the way it started.
• 12:01
  They were on my show. And then after that, uh,
• 12:04
  they called me up and said, Hey man, we're really,
• 12:07
  we want to build a little board of advisors.
• 12:09
  We want people. that are using thought leaders.
• 12:14
  We want people that have all sorts of different
• 12:16
  backgrounds to really help us out. And it's been
• 12:19
  great. Thomas Thompson and Thomas Hummel, T Squared,
• 12:24
  I call them. They're fantastic. And they've been
• 12:28
  great. And I think they have the record on Maya
• 12:32
  Tech Life for most appearances. Because one of
• 12:36
  the things that I love about them now, this is
• 12:38
  kind of going back to why I really love this
• 12:42
  platform is they are open and honest and transparent
• 12:47
  every single time. If you go back to some of
• 12:50
  my episodes that I've done with them when it
• 12:51
  was just Thomas Hummel by himself, then I had
• 12:54
  Thomas, uh, uh, actually Thomas Thompson was
• 12:57
  first, then Thomas Hummel, then I had both on
• 13:00
  and then they both came on again and so on. Is
• 13:04
  that They are not afraid to just openly speak
• 13:08
  about how their platform works. They're not afraid
• 13:12
  to tell people like, Hey, this is kind of where
• 13:15
  we're working on right now and we're trying to
• 13:17
  make things better and we're listening. Thomas
• 13:20
  Hummel is still in the classroom, which is fantastic.
• 13:24
  He's, and he's a co -founder, but his thing is
• 13:27
  like, you know, I like being part of Edu8, but
• 13:29
  he really has a passion for teaching. Thomas
• 13:32
  Thompson is passionate about edu - but obviously
• 13:35
  now he's taking on that role where he's an edu
• 13:38
  aid full time. But to me, what I admire the most
• 13:41
  is the full open transparency and really the
• 13:46
  work that they do that maybe sometimes goes unannounced
• 13:49
  or unheard, how they really help and are helping
• 13:53
  a lot of educators overseas. in Africa, a lot
• 13:58
  of educators where there may not be a lot of
• 14:01
  teachers and there is support that is needed,
• 14:04
  how they will just simply open up the platform
• 14:07
  and say, hey, here is a free account, just use
• 14:11
  it. And very, very, very philanthropic, philanthropic,
• 14:16
  I'm mispronouncing that. And in that way, you
• 14:19
  know, very... Philanthropy, philanthropic. Yeah,
• 14:23
  there you go. You know, tongue tied and everything
• 14:26
  here this morning. But that is one of the things
• 14:29
  that to me is so important about education and
• 14:34
  even in educational technology, that human contact,
• 14:37
  that human aspect and the fact that they have
• 14:41
  not lost their ground. You know, their feet are
• 14:44
  still grounded and they are just all about the
• 14:48
  work. putting out a great product that is going
• 14:51
  to help teachers, but also help students. And
• 14:55
  they do it in, like I said, in such an open way
• 14:58
  that there's absolutely nothing that that they
• 15:02
  hide. I mean, they're transparent about everything.
• 15:05
  Yeah, I would completely agree with that. After
• 15:07
  having Thomas Hummel on our show is that he really
• 15:10
  pulled no punches. You know, he was he was so
• 15:13
  forthright, open, honest, and just like he was
• 15:17
  going to point out things that he didn't agree
• 15:20
  with that others maybe are doing, um, and, and
• 15:23
  suggesting, you know, why that is not a direction
• 15:26
  we should be going. Um, and it was so like, it
• 15:31
  was just beautiful to have him on to hear you
• 15:33
  present that perspective. Yeah. Isn't he great?
• 15:35
  I mean, that guy has such spicy takes and sometimes
• 15:40
  I'm thinking to myself, Oh my gosh, like, but
• 15:42
  you're a founder and like, this is what you do.
• 15:44
  And he, like you said, it's just, You know what?
• 15:48
  Yes, it is what I do. But does it mean that you
• 15:50
  have to agree with the way that everybody does
• 15:52
  it and things of that sort? No, I mean, you want
• 15:54
  to make sure you do it right. And like you said,
• 15:57
  that's one of the things, too, that I really
• 15:59
  appreciate both about both Thomas Thompson and
• 16:02
  Thomas Hummel. Right so one of the things that
• 16:05
  you you you brought up here a little bit or a
• 16:07
  couple of different things I'm going to try to
• 16:08
  put them together here a little bit You mentioned
• 16:11
  your podcast a couple of times my edtech life
• 16:14
  And you also talked about you know growing your
• 16:18
  your professional learning network, right? So,
• 16:21
  you know if you want to take it from the perspective
• 16:24
  of your podcast, how do you bring people on to
• 16:28
  help elevate those educator voices? And what
• 16:32
  can teachers do to help grow their professional
• 16:35
  learning networks? Because I think it's really
• 16:37
  important that educators keep connected with
• 16:39
  other educators. Yeah, I think that's something
• 16:42
  that's very important. So for myself doing this
• 16:46
  for five years now, you know, started on April
• 16:49
  10th of 2020. And we just turned five this year
• 16:53
  in April. Three hundred and thirty eight episodes.
• 16:57
  It'll be three thirty nine after I finish this
• 16:59
  episode. I'm going to release another one. And
• 17:02
  to me, that has been the most important thing
• 17:04
  that. So let me kind of go back a little bit.
• 17:08
  So growing up, like I mentioned, being an only
• 17:10
  child, I really didn't have a lot of friends
• 17:14
  in the area that I lived that were my age. It
• 17:17
  was really like school friends that I would go
• 17:20
  and visit. And of course, if they had siblings,
• 17:23
  they had large families. It was very interesting
• 17:25
  because I'd go to their houses that I get invited
• 17:27
  to go play basketball or go play whatever. And
• 17:31
  I would just sit there and I would just listen
• 17:32
  to the adults talk. because there's just something
• 17:36
  about that storytelling aspect and just hearing
• 17:39
  others' perspectives, the experience of others,
• 17:44
  that to me, since I was young, I remember just
• 17:47
  always sitting there and just being a listener,
• 17:50
  because I want to pick up on things. You pick
• 17:53
  up little details here, little details there,
• 17:56
  and then say, oh yeah, I can kind of take that
• 17:59
  nugget and apply it here and so on. going into
• 18:03
  podcasting, it was just kind of like a natural
• 18:06
  progression in that. And so I would find guests
• 18:10
  and bring them on. And I always... And since
• 18:14
  I'm on so much on social media, particularly
• 18:17
  LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram, and so pretty much
• 18:21
  everywhere, as I scroll on, I'll look at and
• 18:26
  see people that I'm like, hey, man, you know
• 18:28
  what? This person is doing something great or
• 18:31
  sometimes just based on a comment, on a simple
• 18:34
  comment that they put. I was like, oh, that was
• 18:36
  a spicy take. I want to bring them on. And then
• 18:39
  I'll bring them on as guests. And so it's It's
• 18:44
  really just finding what resonates with me, what
• 18:46
  kind of hits with me, because I know if it hits
• 18:49
  with me, I know it's going to hit with somebody
• 18:50
  else and maybe they may feel the same way. They
• 18:53
  may not, but you know what, let's bring it to
• 18:55
  the conversation. And so for me, it's always
• 18:58
  been able to find that balance of, you know,
• 19:01
  you're going to have those that are all for something,
• 19:03
  those that may not be all for something. And
• 19:06
  I just kind of try and mediate and see where
• 19:08
  we can reconcile, you know, some of those things,
• 19:11
  but it's been very. very wonderful to build the
• 19:15
  professional learning network because now like
• 19:18
  such as you will put you both, you know, reaching
• 19:20
  out to me. Now you're part of my network and
• 19:23
  I get to be part of your network. And hopefully
• 19:26
  in the future, maybe we'll do some more collaborating.
• 19:29
  And that's to me what it's all about too, is
• 19:31
  helping each other build each other's capacity
• 19:33
  to continue learning from one another to not
• 19:36
  remain stagnant. And just to be able to continue
• 19:40
  to light that flame and that passion for education
• 19:44
  and what we do. So for all my educator friends
• 19:47
  that are out there, I always say, your personal
• 19:53
  learning family is something that is going to
• 19:57
  be great for you to continue to feel. And the
• 20:01
  fact that they can get you out of a bind. in
• 20:03
  any situation to say like, hey, I've got a lesson
• 20:06
  on the Roman Empire, but this is the way I've
• 20:08
  always done it. Does anybody have a suggestion
• 20:12
  or a different way of doing this? And then all
• 20:15
  of a sudden it's like, hey, here's a slideshow
• 20:17
  of what I did or, hey, check this link out that
• 20:20
  this is what I do and this is what I shared and
• 20:22
  these are these activities. And I'm thinking
• 20:24
  to myself, wow. And that's what I love about
• 20:27
  the education community, that they are so giving.
• 20:30
  and so willing to help or even just say, hey,
• 20:34
  you know what? Let me get you on a Google Meet
• 20:36
  to meet in my class. And then they can do the
• 20:40
  teaching for you in that sense because now they
• 20:43
  become those experts in those situations. And
• 20:45
  I think that's so important, especially now with
• 20:49
  the way that situations are. and we see it all
• 20:52
  in the news. But I'll be honest, you know, everything
• 20:55
  that you see on the news is not always going
• 20:57
  to be true because there are some wonderful educators
• 21:00
  that are doing the work and they're doing it
• 21:03
  so graciously and they're doing it well. Not
• 21:06
  every student is the way that maybe they are
• 21:09
  perceived on the news. Yes, you know, students
• 21:12
  will be students, but there are so many great
• 21:14
  educators that are going above and beyond to
• 21:18
  help all our students be successful. And of course,
• 21:21
  You've got admins too that are really trying
• 21:23
  their best to make everything the best that they
• 21:27
  can for our students and for our teachers as
• 21:30
  well. But it all starts also with not being afraid
• 21:33
  to ask for help. So professional learning networks
• 21:36
  or like Dr. Sarah Thomas says, also professional
• 21:40
  learning families, those are something that you
• 21:45
  really should be part of and that can really
• 21:47
  help. So I really like that because it's, you
• 21:50
  know, in a lot of the conversations that we have
• 21:52
  with AI, you can go to AI to help you with those
• 21:55
  things, but it's not the authentic human perspective
• 21:59
  from a colleague, from a co -worker that is,
• 22:04
  you know, been a tried, tested and true method,
• 22:08
  you know, that you can go to that person because
• 22:11
  you have that connection with them, you know,
• 22:13
  whether they're in your building across town
• 22:15
  or across the country. because they're part of
• 22:18
  that family that you talked about. It just grounds
• 22:23
  that education, I think, more deeply. Yeah, most
• 22:26
  definitely. You know, one thing like even on
• 22:28
  my phone right now, like it started off as just
• 22:30
  an ISTE chat, you know, from the summer and it's
• 22:32
  a WhatsApp chat that we have and we're all in
• 22:35
  this thread. And of course, just everybody joined.
• 22:38
  A lot of people are joining and now a lot of
• 22:40
  people are joining even after it's been a while
• 22:43
  since ISTE was, you know, back this past summer.
• 22:47
  But now that chat has turned into a way for for
• 22:51
  communication globally, because there are educators
• 22:54
  from Japan, educators from Korea, educators from
• 22:58
  the UK, educators here from the United States
• 23:00
  and everywhere in New Zealand, Australia. And
• 23:04
  somebody can put in a question and say, hey,
• 23:06
  guys, I'm trying to do this, you know, this particular
• 23:09
  lesson, this or this. Does anybody want to share
• 23:11
  anything or has anybody done anything like this?
• 23:14
  And all of a sudden you just start seeing the
• 23:16
  links drop in. and all these amazing resources
• 23:19
  from different perspectives and different ways.
• 23:21
  And I'm like, wow, like for a teacher to not
• 23:24
  have to reinvent the wheel, but take something
• 23:27
  from maybe this teacher, a little something from
• 23:31
  this teacher, remix it and make it your own to
• 23:34
  where it lines up with your standards and the
• 23:37
  learning and their learning goals is something
• 23:39
  that is fantastic. And that is something that's
• 23:42
  what I love about the education community. And
• 23:46
  maybe we could talk about that a little bit because
• 23:48
  one of the things that we see a lot of is we
• 23:52
  get teachers that are overwhelmed in a lot of
• 23:55
  different ways because there's so many things
• 23:57
  that are expected of them but even for us like
• 24:00
  we go in and do trainings and things for school
• 24:03
  districts and You can sometimes feel you know,
• 24:06
  it's like it's overwhelming whether it's about
• 24:09
  AI or whatever it might be it just can be overwhelming
• 24:13
  for teachers and this probably connects to the
• 24:16
  professional, like the learning networks, too,
• 24:19
  just in the sense that it doesn't make you feel
• 24:22
  siloed or like you're alone. But if you're thinking
• 24:26
  about teachers being overwhelmed by things that
• 24:30
  they're trying to learn, what do you find is
• 24:33
  the best strategies for overcoming some of that
• 24:37
  feeling of being overwhelmed or like the fear
• 24:39
  of trying a new tool and just helping to teachers
• 24:42
  to build confidence and see successes early on?
• 24:45
  Yeah, for me, it's always been the kiss strategy.
• 24:50
  Keep it simple and streamlined. I know maybe
• 24:53
  others have heard that last S as something else,
• 24:56
  but for me, I've just really adopted that model
• 24:59
  of keep it simple and streamlined. And all that
• 25:03
  really means is for any teacher that is out there,
• 25:06
  whether you're a first year teacher or whether
• 25:08
  you're a 30 year vet. It's all about the simplicity
• 25:12
  and sometimes we tend to over complicate things.
• 25:16
  Which is I think many times I want to say in
• 25:19
  the educators nature because we obviously want
• 25:22
  to do what is best, but sometimes we can be taken
• 25:26
  by what your neighbor across the hall is doing
• 25:30
  or what that specific educator is either doing
• 25:34
  or announcing on, you know, on X or LinkedIn
• 25:37
  or so on and so forth. And you're like, Oh, I
• 25:40
  want to do that. And I want to, because I see
• 25:42
  that it works for them and so on. But I want
• 25:45
  to always, and I always let my teachers know
• 25:47
  it's like you are the experts in your classrooms.
• 25:50
  You are the learning engineers in your classroom
• 25:54
  and you know your audience better than that person
• 25:58
  does on LinkedIn or that person on Instagram
• 26:02
  does and you know what will work for them. And
• 26:06
  sometimes what happens is you want to fall in
• 26:09
  line with what everybody else is doing because
• 26:11
  of that fear of missing out. that you miss out
• 26:15
  really on your own expertise because sometimes
• 26:19
  a lesson doesn't have to be that hard in order
• 26:23
  for it to resonate with the students as long
• 26:26
  as you're prepared and as long as you even just
• 26:29
  use tech tools that you are already familiar
• 26:31
  with or even if it's with color pencils. or crayons
• 26:35
  believe it or not those lessons will still stick
• 26:38
  because at the end of the day it's all about
• 26:40
  the lesson delivery allowing students to have
• 26:42
  discourse and discussion and maybe giving them
• 26:46
  different options as to how to present their
• 26:49
  content mastery to you. You don't have to have
• 26:53
  a full tool belt of tools you can just stick
• 26:57
  to two tools a year or maybe even three and then
• 27:00
  Find that time maybe where there's a little bit
• 27:03
  of that that downtime in between lessons, you
• 27:06
  know or chapters and so on where maybe you can
• 27:09
  definitely take some of those risks in the sense
• 27:12
  of using an app that you may not be familiar
• 27:15
  with yet, but giving it a shot and see what kind
• 27:19
  of results you get. You know, I tell my teachers
• 27:22
  too, it's like, Hey, just get clicky with it.
• 27:24
  You know, there's nothing that you can do, nothing
• 27:26
  that you can break. You can always click back,
• 27:29
  sign out, sign back in, and you're going to be
• 27:31
  fine. Don't worry about it. But it don't put
• 27:34
  too much pressure on yourself to make sure that
• 27:37
  that lesson is perfect because it will never
• 27:41
  be perfect. And I've learned that so many times
• 27:44
  where I think like, man, this lesson is going
• 27:46
  to hit. It's going to be perfect. I have it prepped.
• 27:49
  I have all my materials. And then all of a sudden,
• 27:52
  as you're going through it, as we know, tech
• 27:54
  happens like it happened with us, you know, maybe
• 27:57
  almost a couple of weeks back. tech happens and
• 28:00
  then you have to just be able to adapt and have
• 28:03
  a plan B in place or to just really openly and
• 28:08
  be transparent with students and say, Hey guys,
• 28:10
  you know what? This didn't quite work out the
• 28:12
  way that I thought it would, but we're going
• 28:14
  to go ahead and revisit and we're going to do
• 28:17
  a plan B and it's okay to not know everything.
• 28:20
  And it's okay that maybe your lesson didn't go
• 28:23
  well, but it's all about the resilience and how
• 28:26
  you're going to take that and learn from it.
• 28:28
  and then come over, in other words, overcome
• 28:31
  that situation and still be able to present that
• 28:34
  lesson. Don't feel overwhelmed that you don't
• 28:39
  know 20 tech tools because you really don't need
• 28:42
  20 tech tools to be successful. Maybe just keep
• 28:45
  it simple. Even three tech tools that are maybe
• 28:48
  your mainstays and then just start, you know,
• 28:51
  experimenting with others when the time is allowed
• 28:54
  and you feel comfortable with what you're doing
• 28:57
  after you've practiced it. But that's really
• 29:00
  what it is to me at the end of the day is is
• 29:03
  the students. grasping the content, are they
• 29:06
  showing mastery? Maybe through video, maybe they
• 29:10
  record on screen Castify and they record a reflection
• 29:13
  of the story they just read, or maybe they show
• 29:16
  you. through the whiteboard feature how they
• 29:19
  solve the math problem or maybe they're practicing
• 29:22
  their speaking skills for our emergent bilingual
• 29:25
  students and they record something for you whether
• 29:28
  they use adobe podcast to put a podcast together
• 29:31
  of the unit that they just shared and they're
• 29:34
  recording their ideas and things of that sort
• 29:36
  those what that's what i used to do in my classroom
• 29:39
  of course they didn't have adobe podcast back
• 29:41
  then but it was really screencastify they would
• 29:44
  create slideshows they would draw they would
• 29:47
  you know just be very creative and that's how
• 29:50
  i would check for mastery check for understanding
• 29:52
  and also check for any misconceptions where now
• 29:56
  i can revisit and say okay maybe i just need
• 29:58
  to do a quick reteach with the small group or
• 30:00
  maybe just do a quick you know, three minute
• 30:03
  reteach with the whole class just to fix those
• 30:05
  misconceptions. But it doesn't always have to
• 30:08
  be tech, tech, tech. It could be that nice balance,
• 30:12
  giving them a choice. Maybe some students don't
• 30:14
  want to use the tech that day. Well, maybe they
• 30:17
  can go ahead and just give you some kind of drawing
• 30:20
  or they can write something for you too as well.
• 30:23
  So it doesn't always have to be tech integration.
• 30:26
  or streamlining with the tag and things of that
• 30:28
  sort. We want authentic assessment. I want to
• 30:33
  still hear their voices. And for a teacher to
• 30:36
  be able to give those opportunities can definitely
• 30:38
  go a long way. So does that same principle then
• 30:44
  apply to keep it simple and streamlined for professional
• 30:47
  development? Is that really what you think helps
• 30:51
  bring effective professional development home
• 30:55
  and make it lasting, make it stick? Or are there
• 30:59
  some other tried and true methods that you think
• 31:01
  that are effective for those of us that do lead
• 31:04
  a lot of professional development sessions, especially?
• 31:07
  Yeah, I think when I was still in the classroom
• 31:10
  and I would be called up, to go to a professional
• 31:14
  development. I know one of the things that I've
• 31:16
  noticed, and maybe a lot of teachers always say
• 31:18
  the same thing too, especially when they're bringing
• 31:21
  somebody in from the outside, which I think to
• 31:24
  me sometimes doesn't always work. And I'd say
• 31:29
  like 95 % of the time, 100 % of the time it doesn't
• 31:34
  work because They they don't they're not invested
• 31:39
  in your district. They don't know the breakdown
• 31:42
  They don't know what's going on and so on so
• 31:45
  they come in with an approach And I'm not saying
• 31:48
  that it may not be helpful There's always going
• 31:51
  to be some gems there that you can take back
• 31:53
  but for professional development for somebody
• 31:56
  that is coming in or somebody that is already
• 31:59
  within the district keeping it simple and streamline
• 32:02
  is definitely a way to go as because we have
• 32:05
  to think of this. And this is where kind of like
• 32:08
  my marketing and sales background goes, where
• 32:10
  now my teachers become my customers and I have
• 32:14
  to sell them on either this tech tool, this methodology
• 32:18
  or this framework. So I may not be in the classroom
• 32:23
  and maybe I wasn't in the classroom now for a
• 32:25
  couple of years and I'm maybe a little disconnected
• 32:29
  from there, but I need to present this. to them
• 32:32
  in a way that makes it relevant to them. Well,
• 32:35
  I need to do my research and say, okay, what
• 32:37
  are my teachers pain points? What is happening
• 32:40
  here? What are some of the student pain points?
• 32:42
  And really it's just bringing that together and
• 32:46
  you're there to help solve a problem that they
• 32:50
  already have. Sometimes, you know, there'll be
• 32:52
  trainings that come in to try and solve a problem
• 32:55
  that isn't there yet. And I'm not saying it won't
• 32:59
  be useful, but teachers need intent just the
• 33:03
  way that we would with our students say, oh,
• 33:05
  you need to teach with intentionality. Well,
• 33:08
  I need professional development with intentionality,
• 33:11
  which means that it's something that I can easily
• 33:13
  turn around that same day or the next day and
• 33:17
  be able to use and use it effectively. So what
• 33:20
  I need to do is I need to obviously, like I said,
• 33:23
  keep it simple and streamlined, but really. See
• 33:27
  what problem you're really trying to solve and
• 33:31
  really highlight that problem because if we just
• 33:33
  kind of like Just glance over it and you're just
• 33:36
  kind of saying hey why just got to put this and
• 33:39
  I just got to give it to you there's no connection
• 33:41
  there. Teachers are already overwhelmed with
• 33:44
  what's happening in the classroom, with their
• 33:46
  lesson plans, with other compliance, walkthroughs,
• 33:50
  and so on that it's just not going to stick.
• 33:54
  So if you want to make it stick, find those pain
• 33:57
  points and show them how what you're doing here,
• 34:01
  whether it's this app, how this framework or
• 34:06
  how this training is really going to tie in to
• 34:10
  those pain points that they're going through
• 34:12
  and help them overcome that. So that is really
• 34:16
  what I always try to do and recommend. And it's
• 34:21
  OK that sometimes the conversations turn into,
• 34:26
  you know, sometimes they turn into gripe sessions.
• 34:29
  But in what you're listening, they're just giving
• 34:31
  you that feedback. And now you can say, oh, well,
• 34:34
  I'm glad that you mentioned that. Let's see how
• 34:35
  we can connect that to this. And then all of
• 34:38
  a sudden, they're like, oh, I get it. Now this
• 34:41
  is the issue that I had. But now with this app
• 34:43
  or this framework and this, now that'll take
• 34:46
  care of this. But not only will it take care
• 34:48
  of that, it'll go ahead and take care of this
• 34:51
  other issue or this other learning objective
• 34:54
  and so on and so forth. So the more thoughts
• 34:57
  we can connect, the better. And I think that
• 35:00
  that's really the way professional development
• 35:02
  should go. It's more of a story that you're telling.
• 35:05
  But they're the protagonists, and you're trying
• 35:08
  to just walk them through that story and help
• 35:11
  them be the heroes at the end. So when we talked
• 35:15
  about the professional side and getting teachers
• 35:18
  trained up on various concepts or frameworks
• 35:21
  and things like that, so once they have done
• 35:25
  that and they're at a point where they feel comfortable
• 35:28
  implementing something, so if it's a tech tool
• 35:32
  or whatever it might be, What have you found
• 35:35
  on now moving into the student side? What is
• 35:39
  some of the best practices for making sure that
• 35:43
  as teachers, if you implement it for student
• 35:47
  use, what's the best way to make sure that students
• 35:50
  aren't just consuming the tech and that so when
• 35:56
  they have a student use a tech tool, it's actually
• 36:00
  meaningful for them and allows them to create.
• 36:03
  and still keep their own voice as they use these
• 36:07
  things? And especially with AI, right? Because
• 36:10
  AI is a creator. It can create a lot of different
• 36:14
  things just by prompting it. So what in your
• 36:17
  mind is the best practices for keeping that ability
• 36:22
  for students to create? Yeah, absolutely. That's
• 36:26
  a great question. And that's something that I've
• 36:28
  thought a lot about often, and especially now
• 36:31
  with so many platforms that are out there. But
• 36:34
  for me, it has always been, like I said, like
• 36:37
  I'm a real keep it simple and streamlined. And
• 36:40
  for me, ever since I was in the classroom, it
• 36:43
  was always going to be, you know, something like
• 36:45
  Screencastify, like Adobe Podcast now, like recently
• 36:50
  Adobe Podcast, and like Adobe Express. or Canva,
• 36:55
  things of that sort. And one of the things is
• 36:58
  that I want to kind of make a distinction to
• 37:00
  because there are apps that are kind of mainly
• 37:04
  more for compliance that are sometimes are just,
• 37:10
  you know, those are tough for a lot of students
• 37:12
  that they have to get on. And it's like 30 minutes
• 37:15
  per week per subject that you have to do. But
• 37:18
  it's really you're going in there and they're
• 37:21
  just kind of clicking away. It's like, man, this
• 37:24
  is boring because they're just either kind of
• 37:27
  like really like flashcard based in the sense
• 37:29
  of they're just giving you math problems and
• 37:31
  the student is just clicking. Yes, the teacher
• 37:33
  can check reports and the teacher can say like,
• 37:36
  hey, you know, we need to do better. You need
• 37:38
  to master this and master that. But that should
• 37:42
  kind of give you a little bit of feedback and
• 37:46
  saying. this is not what the student this is
• 37:48
  not engagement or maybe the student is engaged
• 37:52
  in the practice but are they actually learning
• 37:55
  so for me any tool that is going to allow the
• 38:00
  student to record their voice or record themselves
• 38:05
  or allow them to through their thought process
• 38:10
  and their speaking process or you know their
• 38:13
  creative process be able to prompt something
• 38:17
  for an image or you know something like you're
• 38:20
  going to create a graphic for me based on this
• 38:24
  lesson and they can go into Adobe Express and
• 38:27
  create a slideshow or create a recording of their
• 38:31
  voice or voiceover and things of that sort. To
• 38:33
  me that is where I see true engagement and where
• 38:38
  I will see a learning outcome there because the
• 38:43
  students have to get their thoughts together,
• 38:45
  they have to script it, they either write it
• 38:47
  out, type it out, and they're really essentially
• 38:51
  just regurgitating the learning that they just
• 38:55
  did, but putting their own voice to it, their
• 38:58
  own twist on it, and that to me is where the
• 39:02
  learning is most powerful. I learned that in
• 39:04
  the classroom my last couple of years teaching
• 39:07
  fifth grade, working with emergent bilingual
• 39:09
  students where all my students, I would group
• 39:12
  them and say, OK, you guys are working in fours.
• 39:16
  I need a Google slide presentation. You guys
• 39:19
  are going to present. I also need a graphic and
• 39:22
  I need a short podcast. So that was their assignment.
• 39:25
  My emergent bilingual student, I remember having
• 39:27
  her and she was always very shy. She never wanted
• 39:30
  to record, but she was always in charge of the
• 39:33
  Google slide presentations. But I tell you what,
• 39:36
  she may be she may have been shy in speaking
• 39:41
  in front of the class. But she spoke loudly and
• 39:44
  clearly through those Google slides that she
• 39:47
  created, because she was fantastic with putting
• 39:51
  those together. But as the year went on, at the
• 39:54
  end of the year, she presented. And everybody
• 39:58
  was in shock that she never wanted to present.
• 40:01
  And she finally raised her hand and says, no,
• 40:02
  I want to present. And she presented. And the
• 40:06
  whole class started clapping because they had
• 40:08
  never heard her speak English and her English
• 40:12
  was beautiful. And that's because this was her
• 40:14
  first year that she started and she had a twin
• 40:17
  sister that was in the other pod. The other pod
• 40:20
  was a worksheet pod and her English did not improve.
• 40:25
  So I've seen the power of being able to actually
• 40:29
  give your students. of a chance to record their
• 40:32
  voice, record themselves, and be able to show
• 40:37
  you and demonstrate that learning. And I think
• 40:39
  that that's more powerful there when you're getting
• 40:41
  it from them than just simply putting them on
• 40:46
  an app for 30 minutes per day for each subject.
• 40:51
  They're going to be bored. They're just going
• 40:53
  to be like, no, what is this helping me? It's
• 40:56
  not helping me because it's not giving them a
• 41:02
  fix. They're going through it, they miss it,
• 41:04
  and it's like, okay, well, show me how to do
• 41:06
  this right. And then it turns out that the way
• 41:08
  that they do it, there may not be the way that
• 41:11
  the state wants you to do it or that the way
• 41:13
  the teacher's teaching it. So now that provides
• 41:15
  more confusion. So there's a distinction there
• 41:17
  between those apps that are compliance and then
• 41:20
  those apps that are for creativity. So for me,
• 41:24
  that's my passion, allowing students to really
• 41:27
  show you what they know. even though it may be
• 41:30
  incremental, maybe it may be small, but as the
• 41:34
  year goes by, that is going to get better and
• 41:37
  better. And you're going to see that your students
• 41:38
  are going to improve on their speaking, their
• 41:40
  communication, their creativity, because all
• 41:43
  of a sudden they're going to be like, Whoa, can
• 41:45
  I just go use this? And I record myself here
• 41:48
  and I want to record myself there and so on.
• 41:51
  And that is engagement. Now they're having discourse
• 41:54
  and saying, Hey, well, let's do the presentation.
• 41:56
  You're going to talk about this era. I'm going
• 41:58
  to talk about this era and we're going to put
• 42:00
  it together in a podcast. And then now you get,
• 42:03
  you share that on the newsletter for your, your
• 42:07
  campus, or you share that in a newsletter for
• 42:09
  parents. And now they've got an authentic audience.
• 42:12
  I'm like, come on, like that hits so many boxes
• 42:15
  there in the learning aspect. And that's something
• 42:17
  that I'm very passionate about. So, I'm wondering,
• 42:21
  is there a lesson here or takeaway that, you
• 42:24
  know, a principal or a district administrator
• 42:28
  could take away from this, you know, like, and
• 42:31
  I'm sure they have. reports that they have to
• 42:34
  give that show that compliance data that you're
• 42:37
  talking about, but yet is that really what's
• 42:40
  going to empower students to share their voice,
• 42:44
  to really display for everyone the massive amount
• 42:48
  of learning that has taken place in that student's
• 42:51
  progression here? So what could a... What should
• 42:55
  those district leaders really be focused on?
• 42:58
  And is there a way for them to support the teachers
• 43:01
  that are doing such great things? You know, and
• 43:04
  I'm not saying, you know, maybe maybe make them
• 43:06
  a model or, you know, like what, I guess, I don't
• 43:10
  know where my question is going here, but you
• 43:12
  know, support teachers, but still align with
• 43:15
  the compliance things that they need to make
• 43:18
  sure are being taken care of. Yeah, and I think
• 43:20
  that's a great question. And I think if I'm understanding
• 43:23
  this and maybe through through an example, maybe
• 43:25
  I'm not understanding it, but I still still share.
• 43:27
  But I think what helped me and I know what can
• 43:31
  help many teachers is using apps like I mentioned
• 43:34
  before, where a student has to produce something
• 43:38
  regardless of what their score looks like. Let's
• 43:41
  say on those compliance apps. But then all of
• 43:44
  a sudden you've got this beautiful digital portfolio
• 43:46
  that where a student is showing you their speaking,
• 43:50
  their understanding, their communication skills,
• 43:53
  and that they truly have mastered the content.
• 43:58
  One of the things that I always loved is it was
• 44:01
  kind of my, I call it my CYB, which was cover
• 44:06
  your butt, in the sense of when I used to allow
• 44:11
  students to do these projects. what would happen
• 44:13
  is if we had a 504 meeting, an IEP meeting, if
• 44:18
  we had any kind of meeting for the alphabet soups
• 44:21
  that are out there, I would show up. And what
• 44:25
  I noticed is there would be a lot of teachers
• 44:27
  or in the team that would always just show up
• 44:30
  and show up with documents. And they'd be like,
• 44:34
  well, here, like, they're getting 70s on this
• 44:37
  test. They're getting 60s on this test. Well,
• 44:40
  what can the student do? Well, they just need
• 44:42
  to study. They need to retake this. They need
• 44:44
  to come into tutoring. And then I would show
• 44:47
  up and I'd open up my Chromebook and I'd say,
• 44:49
  well, that same student in my class has a 90,
• 44:53
  a 95 and look at their speaking. They're an emergent
• 44:57
  bilingual. Look at the level of where they're
• 44:58
  at at the beginning. Look at the level where
• 45:00
  they're at now because I'm showing them these
• 45:03
  learning artifacts. And so those coordinators
• 45:07
  are like, wow, the student is doing this. I was
• 45:10
  like, yes. And they're like, but their language
• 45:13
  and look at the developmental language here.
• 45:15
  Look at how they're acquiring the language here.
• 45:19
  Look at how they're communicating or look at
• 45:21
  how they're understanding the content. I said,
• 45:23
  yes, it's the same content just presented differently.
• 45:27
  So for me, I always would say that those learning
• 45:31
  artifacts are your evidence that your student.
• 45:35
  Although maybe they may not be as engaged on
• 45:38
  this 30 minutes of compliance and maybe in those
• 45:40
  30 minutes they only do five problems and out
• 45:43
  of those five problems, you know, they only get
• 45:45
  three right doesn't mean that they don't know
• 45:47
  the content is just that for them. this is boring
• 45:51
  and not engaging and really, you know, bringing
• 45:54
  the best out of them. But then if you present
• 45:57
  it in a different way where now you have to create
• 45:59
  something for me and I want to hear your voice
• 46:02
  and I want you to amplify your learning, then
• 46:05
  that takes it to that next level. And again,
• 46:08
  the evidence is going to be that portfolio that
• 46:10
  the teacher can present to the principal to say,
• 46:14
  hey, you know, and maybe just even thoughts of
• 46:17
  Do we need to be spending money on this platform
• 46:22
  if the students are not engaged enough? And that's
• 46:26
  the thing too, is that data is so important.
• 46:29
  And sometimes we get stuck in the, this is the
• 46:33
  way we've always done it. And this is what the
• 46:36
  students need to do, but the results never change.
• 46:40
  So that's a tough part. Yeah like so they've
• 46:44
  collected historical data the same way over time
• 46:46
  and if you change the way you're collecting the
• 46:48
  data they can't compare it to what happened before.
• 46:52
  Right. Is that kind of a trap that they're afraid
• 46:54
  of falling into perhaps and why and maybe why
• 46:57
  they're not promoting for you know multiple ways
• 47:00
  to collect evidence of student learning which
• 47:02
  is really what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah,
• 47:04
  and I think that that falls in line. I mean,
• 47:06
  it's just the thing is, is that sometimes there
• 47:09
  we don't have a choice because this is what comes
• 47:12
  from our service center or central office at
• 47:15
  that point. But one of the things that I do want
• 47:18
  to add is many times the correct stakeholders
• 47:22
  are not at those meetings when these decisions
• 47:25
  are made. And what I mean by that is that teachers
• 47:28
  are not involved in these decisions and maybe
• 47:31
  even getting students. involved in these decisions,
• 47:34
  because many times it's the people that have
• 47:37
  been far removed, very, very far removed, are
• 47:41
  the ones that make the decision thinking, well,
• 47:44
  I just need something that's going to, you know,
• 47:46
  fill in this compliance piece. Well, this is
• 47:49
  the app and this is what I'm going to get. And
• 47:51
  that's everybody does it. And it it shouldn't
• 47:55
  work that way. And I get it that sometimes those
• 47:57
  decisions need to be made and they need to be
• 48:00
  made in that way. But Can we change our thought
• 48:04
  process? And again, this kind of takes me back
• 48:07
  to that business side. I mean, I'm not going
• 48:09
  to buy something that I know hasn't been working
• 48:11
  and still continue to use it. Like it's okay
• 48:13
  to say, you know what? I messed up. Maybe this
• 48:16
  wasn't the app for us. And yes, you know, we
• 48:19
  spent this much money, but you know what, like
• 48:21
  in doing our research and bringing in teacher.
• 48:25
  end users and student end users into the conversation.
• 48:29
  Now we can say that, yes, this particular app
• 48:32
  now that we want to use is the one that will
• 48:36
  give us better results and things of that sort.
• 48:39
  Or just say, you know what, based on our research,
• 48:41
  too, we don't need this at all whatsoever. So
• 48:46
  it's tough. And I know it's tough for them to
• 48:49
  be out there. And I'm only speaking for myself
• 48:52
  because my mind things a little bit different
• 48:55
  than what you know and and I always say this
• 49:00
  coming in and having that business experience
• 49:03
  sometimes I feel like real outside the box and
• 49:06
  sometimes I feel like uh people I'm like the
• 49:10
  black sheep because I I think differently because
• 49:13
  I've seen different as opposed to the way that
• 49:17
  this is the way we've always done it and I kind
• 49:20
  of challenge things a bit but I say, well, we're
• 49:23
  not challenging. And if we're not bringing in
• 49:26
  new ideas, we're going to be in a rut. And we're
• 49:30
  going to get the same results all the time. So
• 49:33
  yeah, it's tough for them. It's tough to be at
• 49:35
  the top. But please, my best advice for administrators,
• 49:40
  and I know there was a question here, something
• 49:41
  that administrators can do, even at the district
• 49:45
  level, bring in all your stakeholders at the
• 49:48
  school level. Bring in all your stakeholders
• 49:51
  when you're making decisions because we can make
• 49:55
  the decision that we think is right. But in the
• 49:57
  long run, is it going to be the right decision
• 49:59
  for all? And I like to how you the thing is we're
• 50:04
  taking into account what the actual makeup of
• 50:07
  the district is and their experiences that are
• 50:09
  happening during the school day. And part of
• 50:12
  that piece is the technology that's being used
• 50:15
  and different types of technology and one of
• 50:19
  the difficulties, because it's not all positive,
• 50:22
  right? There are some things that do happen on
• 50:25
  the negative side as well, where they have to
• 50:29
  balance, you have to balance tech use. And so
• 50:32
  one of the things that's important to look at
• 50:34
  is the personal relationships that you still
• 50:37
  have to maintain during that tech use. And I'm
• 50:39
  sure we've all heard of like where... you know,
• 50:42
  tech as a babysitter, right? Or, you know, now
• 50:45
  there's data out too where we have with the AI
• 50:48
  stuff where kids would rather talk to a chat
• 50:51
  bot in some cases, as opposed to engaging with
• 50:55
  other individual students at their. district,
• 50:58
  and that's a downside of that. What is your thoughts
• 51:03
  on how to maintain connections in the tech -rich
• 51:07
  environments that we have? Because there's so
• 51:08
  many positives, but there's also these negatives
• 51:11
  that exist too. Yeah, I think what can be done
• 51:18
  is sometimes it's just as educators, we can overdo
• 51:23
  things. We can overdo the tech. Now, again, It
• 51:27
  goes back to maybe the situation that may be
• 51:29
  happening, whether it's at that campus, at that
• 51:31
  district, and so on and so forth, where there's
• 51:34
  so much that as soon as you open that door comes
• 51:38
  in, which I mean the administrative stuff. And
• 51:41
  it is overwhelming that for teachers, it's like,
• 51:45
  you know what, just get on this app and the app
• 51:48
  has a chat bot. You work with that while I need
• 51:51
  to catch up on these. IEP reports or they they're
• 51:55
  demanding this report or that report and so on
• 51:58
  so it could be very easy for a teacher to say
• 52:01
  well I need to do my compliance over here that
• 52:03
  they want and they want this report immediately
• 52:06
  so now it's like okay well we've got this app
• 52:09
  that has this chatbot that'll go ahead and walk
• 52:11
  the students through that lesson and then that
• 52:14
  could easily turn into like, oh, okay, I'll just
• 52:17
  turn on Nearpod. Go ahead guys, just log in,
• 52:20
  do the lesson. And I just kind of hang back and
• 52:22
  I just reinforce what we're doing, but it already
• 52:25
  taught the lesson. Sometimes I battle with that
• 52:29
  because there are so many wonderful apps, but
• 52:32
  it does not have that connection piece to the
• 52:36
  student. These chatbots have no context of who
• 52:39
  your student is at all whatsoever. They see that
• 52:43
  they get the question wrong and say, well, nope,
• 52:45
  that's not right. OK, well, show me what I need
• 52:47
  to do. Well, try and do this, this, this, and
• 52:50
  that. And then you may be able to try it again.
• 52:52
  And maybe it doesn't work. It doesn't fail. Some
• 52:55
  students may not learn that way. Some students
• 52:57
  were like, well, maybe they can roll with it.
• 53:00
  But that human piece where the teacher knows
• 53:03
  just visibly looking at a student. when a student
• 53:06
  understands something, when a student doesn't
• 53:08
  understand something on how to not single the
• 53:10
  student out. And maybe as other working teacher
• 53:13
  walks by and says, Hey, you're doing a good job.
• 53:15
  Is there anything that I can help you with things
• 53:18
  of that sort? You know, I think that that is
• 53:20
  something that can never ever be replaced and
• 53:24
  it shouldn't be replaced because we need that
• 53:26
  human connection now also, because sometimes
• 53:29
  we tend to overuse apps. And again, there are
• 53:34
  many teachers out there and again not all do
• 53:37
  this but sometimes the ones that do are make
• 53:40
  it difficult and maybe there's this perception
• 53:42
  that everybody does it where they just say hey
• 53:45
  here you go just get on ixl and that's it like
• 53:48
  ixl is going to teach you for today here are
• 53:50
  the lessons here's 10 lessons that i'm going
• 53:53
  to give you for today just get on ixl and that's
• 53:55
  it i mean yeah there there's your two -hour learning
• 53:58
  and but it's not helping the student is they're
• 54:01
  just doing it But are they really learning it?
• 54:04
  And how are you assessing the learning? So to
• 54:07
  me, it's very important that you find that balance
• 54:09
  where you allow students to have discourse in
• 54:14
  your class. Also, you need to allow students
• 54:17
  to have processing time. I am one of those that,
• 54:21
  right now, thanks to you sending me the questions
• 54:25
  ahead of time, have answers already in my mind
• 54:29
  of where this could go. But if we were just doing
• 54:32
  this, you know, kind of like, like, hey, let's
• 54:34
  just get on and talk my processing time, I would
• 54:38
  be pausing a lot because I need to process my
• 54:41
  answers. And sometimes, although I may not be
• 54:43
  the first to answer, it doesn't mean that I don't
• 54:46
  have the right answer. It just takes me a little
• 54:48
  bit longer to process. And I understand that
• 54:50
  sometimes curriculums are like, go, go, go, we
• 54:53
  got to move. And then what ends up happening
• 54:55
  is the first two rows of students. understand
• 54:58
  the content because they're the ones that raise
• 55:00
  their hand real quick and they're always able
• 55:02
  to answer. But what happens to the second two
• 55:05
  rows that, you know, like are those students
• 55:07
  not worthy enough for you to wait a little bit
• 55:10
  to process to be able to answer? And then what
• 55:13
  happens is that they will no longer raise their
• 55:16
  hands and they just kind of sit back and slowly
• 55:19
  just kind of fade into the class. We need to,
• 55:24
  for me, best practice is always allowing students
• 55:27
  to talk to be able to think pair share and it
• 55:31
  doesn't have to be like they have to talk for
• 55:33
  30 minutes it's like hey here's one minute you
• 55:35
  know tell me the difference between an animal
• 55:38
  cell and a plant so go ahead and discuss they
• 55:40
  discuss they do their facts and then you assess
• 55:43
  and check it's like hey all right Fonz what did
• 55:45
  you learn from Johnny over here or from Jeremy
• 55:48
  what did he say was uh an animal plant has that
• 55:52
  uh you know a plant cell doesn't or excuse me
• 55:55
  an animal cell and a plant cell doesn't and you're
• 55:58
  able to build that up students are listening
• 56:00
  they're engaged you know you still have control
• 56:03
  of the classroom but everybody is participating
• 56:07
  and i think to me that's something that's very
• 56:09
  important because i'm just going to go back to
• 56:11
  the chat bot the chat bot has no context of your
• 56:15
  background where you're coming from who you are
• 56:18
  at all whatsoever. It's gonna be, it's gonna
• 56:20
  give you answers. It's gonna guide you, but it's
• 56:23
  gonna guide you in a very sterile way as opposed
• 56:26
  to in a very engaging, meaningful, caring way,
• 56:29
  I think. And so those are the things that I'm
• 56:32
  kind of seeing and that I kind of battle with
• 56:34
  because the technology is there. Is it useful?
• 56:38
  Yeah, I'm not saying that it's not useful and
• 56:40
  that it won't be useful, but there's just something
• 56:43
  about discourse. All three of us right now having
• 56:47
  this conversation. I'm learning so much from
• 56:49
  both of you and I hope you're learning something
• 56:52
  for me too as well that we can take away and
• 56:54
  it was personal. It was me. It was for me because
• 56:58
  I get to be your guest. I get to learn from both
• 57:00
  of you for this hour 45 minutes and that's the
• 57:03
  way that I see it. I'm getting this professional
• 57:05
  development with two great gentlemen that I get
• 57:08
  to learn about me and learn about you. So to
• 57:12
  me that's very important. Well, we appreciate
• 57:16
  that. It's always reaffirming to be able to bring
• 57:20
  on guests such as yourself to, you know, I think
• 57:23
  expand our knowledge. That's one of the things
• 57:25
  that I feel like in doing this podcast with David
• 57:28
  over the last couple of years is that I really
• 57:31
  feel that I've been able to grow in my thinking
• 57:34
  and my own learning. And I hope then that leads
• 57:37
  me to the point where I'm better able to share
• 57:39
  that with others as well. And I think that wouldn't
• 57:42
  be possible without some of those human connections
• 57:45
  that you talked about. But I think at the same
• 57:47
  time, without some of the technologies that also
• 57:50
  allow that to happen, like you had said, you
• 57:53
  know, like there are certain students that have
• 57:55
  figured out the game of school, right? And they
• 57:58
  know when the teacher asks the questions that
• 58:00
  they're gonna raise their hand, then the teacher's
• 58:03
  gonna think that they know it all and they're
• 58:05
  gonna get the best grades and you know, that
• 58:07
  sort of thing. But then like you had said, that's
• 58:10
  not really... helping those students who just
• 58:13
  need a little bit more time to process, right?
• 58:17
  And that maybe technology can help us give those
• 58:21
  students some time to be able to still show what
• 58:25
  they know, make sure their voice is heard and
• 58:28
  demonstrate that learning that took place. So
• 58:31
  it leads me into my next question here then.
• 58:34
  It's a little bit more technology focused and,
• 58:37
  you know, we have a technology and education
• 58:40
  podcast You have a technology and education podcast
• 58:44
  here. What do you see as emerging maybe trends,
• 58:49
  maybe tools in the world of education technology
• 58:54
  that you think could be applied to situations
• 58:57
  kind of like this? Is it AI still? And I know
• 59:01
  we've kind of danced around AI. We've not really
• 59:04
  hammered on it. Is it things that AI will allow?
• 59:07
  Is it other AR, VR or XR opportunities or are
• 59:12
  there different avenues we should be exploring?
• 59:16
  Well, for the most part, due to different states
• 59:20
  doing different things as far as cell phone bans
• 59:23
  and things of that sort. I would have normally
• 59:26
  said like AR, VR because I know like when I was
• 59:29
  teaching fifth grade and mind you, this was back
• 59:32
  in my last year in the classroom was like 2016,
• 59:35
  17. We were a BYOD district. So students were
• 59:39
  bringing in their devices and we were doing AR,
• 59:41
  VR heavy, you know, and I know Chromebooks now,
• 59:44
  you know, they do have certain capacity of that.
• 59:47
  But I do want to say that this immersive technology
• 59:51
  should be coming back to some extent. You've
• 59:53
  got some apps like Megamind that are out there,
• 59:57
  you know, where the students can at least kind
• 59:59
  of immerse themselves in a gamified way and still
• 1:00:01
  be able to learn. So I think that that kind of
• 1:00:04
  technology, I know AI is it's here. It's it's
• 1:00:08
  gonna stay there. There's no way. Like, I mean,
• 1:00:11
  it's here and it's only going to get better.
• 1:00:14
  And I know that for myself, I've always been
• 1:00:16
  a very cautious advocate. I've always advocated
• 1:00:19
  for at least for the teacher side of it, you
• 1:00:22
  know, sometimes on the student side, I'm still
• 1:00:24
  like, you know, you have to be very cautious
• 1:00:25
  on that. There's a lot of regulations, a lot
• 1:00:28
  of things there, but on the teacher's aspect,
• 1:00:31
  you know, the fact that you've got tools like
• 1:00:33
  that can change your reading levels for students
• 1:00:38
  that come in. They've got so many great resources
• 1:00:42
  there that can help a teacher immediately adjust
• 1:00:45
  a lesson for a student that may come in that
• 1:00:47
  day or a student that may have come in a week
• 1:00:51
  ago or from the beginning of the school year.
• 1:00:53
  Those types of tools, I know that will continue
• 1:00:56
  to grow, but we also need to focus on the tools
• 1:01:00
  that are simple. You know, like I mentioned a
• 1:01:03
  couple and but I'm not not sponsored by any of
• 1:01:06
  these at all, but tools that are easy, like,
• 1:01:09
  you know, for to listen to students, you know,
• 1:01:11
  tools like Screencastify Adobe Podcast, I really
• 1:01:15
  like those a lot. You know, those those kinds
• 1:01:18
  of tools where you can get student feedback and
• 1:01:21
  they are able to create something for you. Adobe
• 1:01:23
  Express, Canva, where they can get creative graphically
• 1:01:26
  for you and things of that sort. Those tools
• 1:01:29
  to me that. will always be there to enhance that
• 1:01:33
  creativity, not just really create for the student,
• 1:01:36
  but to really enhance their knowledge, their
• 1:01:39
  learning, and so on. But I do see that some of
• 1:01:44
  that immersive tools that Mega Minds will come
• 1:01:48
  in. And I love them, by the way, just the fact
• 1:01:52
  that student can go in and it's kind of like
• 1:01:55
  a little adventure. Depending on what the teacher
• 1:01:57
  creates and they go in they can listen to YouTube
• 1:02:01
  video They can watch a slideshow and they can
• 1:02:03
  go through this wonderful world that is built
• 1:02:06
  for them for that setting and I think that's
• 1:02:09
  something that's great that Eric Tao is doing
• 1:02:12
  wonderfully and I think that that should be something
• 1:02:15
  that we need to look into also and just continue
• 1:02:17
  to gamify the learning process to as well in
• 1:02:20
  an intentional way not just simply Substitute
• 1:02:23
  and say hey, here's your learning today here's
• 1:02:26
  your way ground quiz and just keep working on
• 1:02:29
  that until you you get you know proficient or
• 1:02:32
  you get masters you know so those are some of
• 1:02:35
  the things that we need to be very cautious with
• 1:02:37
  because those tools can easily invade the student
• 1:02:42
  learning process and invade the teacher process
• 1:02:46
  teaching process and there has to be that balance
• 1:02:49
  but for me i think it's just really it's going
• 1:02:52
  to be that ai AI, AI, and it's going to get better
• 1:02:56
  for the teachers for sure. Great. Well, thanks
• 1:03:00
  for all your insights on all these questions
• 1:03:03
  and everything. We're going to move into the
• 1:03:05
  lightning round. This is kind of our quick hit
• 1:03:07
  round. So, you know, like one word or sentence
• 1:03:11
  to kind of encompass answers to these questions.
• 1:03:14
  I'm going to start us off and we're just going
• 1:03:16
  to rapid fire through these. Jeremy and I will
• 1:03:19
  alternate. But what's your favorite place in
• 1:03:22
  Texas? Favorite place in Texas. It has to be
• 1:03:26
  here, South Texas, the Rio Grande Valley. I mean,
• 1:03:28
  if you guys ever come down here, you will see
• 1:03:31
  the hospitality, great food, great places, great
• 1:03:35
  culture, and just because we're right along the
• 1:03:37
  border. So I wouldn't trade this place for anything
• 1:03:40
  else. So you've mentioned you've had 330 some.
• 1:03:47
  episodes. What's been a guest that has surprised
• 1:03:50
  you the most or maybe like help you learn something
• 1:03:53
  that really stuck with you that is kind of carried
• 1:03:56
  with you through the last few years? Yeah, that
• 1:03:58
  would be Kevin Doherty. He's also got a podcast
• 1:04:02
  called Just Thinking and he's fantastic. He is
• 1:04:05
  so knowledgeable and has such an amazing heart.
• 1:04:09
  So two things that I learned from him when he
• 1:04:11
  was on my episode. Number one is And I've known
• 1:04:17
  Kevin since 2018. And that's kind of like when
• 1:04:21
  it stuck. But when he was on the show, it kind
• 1:04:24
  of brought it back is the learning engineer part.
• 1:04:29
  I know for teachers, it's like, oh, I'm just
• 1:04:31
  a teacher. Teacher, no, no, no. It's like you're
• 1:04:34
  a learning engineer. You are in charge of creating
• 1:04:39
  this wonderful learning experience for your students.
• 1:04:43
  And I think that that phrase there's so much
• 1:04:46
  power to it then sometimes you know you hear
• 1:04:48
  the word teacher or maybe even a teacher says
• 1:04:50
  well um and i heard that recently at a conference
• 1:04:53
  saying well no i'm just a teacher i was like
• 1:04:55
  no no no you're not just a teacher i was like
• 1:04:57
  you're a learning engineer and it was interesting
• 1:05:00
  just to see their face kind of like light up
• 1:05:02
  like oh like And I was like, yeah, because you're
• 1:05:05
  in charge of creating those learning experiences.
• 1:05:07
  So he really brought that and it has stuck with
• 1:05:10
  me. And I always reference that. The second thing
• 1:05:13
  that he referenced and he wrote it, I think,
• 1:05:16
  in a blog post was the it's OK to not know everything.
• 1:05:20
  So for my new teachers that are out there or
• 1:05:23
  new instructional coaches or new assessment coordinators,
• 1:05:27
  new superintendents, wherever it is that you
• 1:05:30
  may land, if you're in a new role. It's OK to
• 1:05:33
  not know everything. And it doesn't matter if
• 1:05:36
  you have one year experience or 20 years of experience.
• 1:05:39
  It's OK to not know everything. All right. What's
• 1:05:43
  your go to hype song? Go to hype song. Oh, my
• 1:05:47
  gosh. This one, I know it sounds cheesy, but
• 1:05:51
  this this reminds me of when I was eight years
• 1:05:55
  old and I had a little Casio Walkman and this
• 1:05:59
  was the very first. cassette soundtrack. I'm
• 1:06:02
  dating myself. Cassette soundtrack that I bought
• 1:06:05
  is the Rocky Force soundtrack. And it is Eye
• 1:06:10
  of the Tiger. Of course, that is my go to song
• 1:06:12
  since I was eight. Like there's just something
• 1:06:14
  about that song that just pumps me up. Nice.
• 1:06:18
  Did you ever use the pencil to rewind? Yes. Yes
• 1:06:24
  been there done that yeah, but man I tell you
• 1:06:27
  man that little Casio I felt like king of the
• 1:06:30
  world because it had like little three EQ knobs
• 1:06:32
  on it and I was just like man this and I used
• 1:06:35
  to wear like a little fanny pack so I would have
• 1:06:37
  it in my fanny pack when we would travel but
• 1:06:39
  man I thought I was I was hip If you could instantly
• 1:06:47
  master one new tech tool or platform, what would
• 1:06:49
  it be? I would probably say that would be Adobe
• 1:06:55
  Illustrator. One of the things that I love that
• 1:06:58
  I love working with Photoshop, but there's just
• 1:07:01
  something about being very creative with Adobe
• 1:07:03
  Illustrator that I really wish I could master
• 1:07:06
  that to really just create more logos, more designs
• 1:07:09
  and things of that sort. So right now that's
• 1:07:11
  kind of like in the process of me just kind of
• 1:07:14
  learning some of the basics, but just kind of
• 1:07:16
  just a little something extra to learn. to kind
• 1:07:19
  of get me out of my regular space and kind of
• 1:07:22
  challenge me in those ways. So yeah, Adobe Illustrator
• 1:07:25
  would be one for sure. Cool, good. Just out of
• 1:07:29
  curiosity, have you ever chatted with Manuel
• 1:07:32
  Herrera at all? Yeah, he's been on my podcast.
• 1:07:35
  OK, yeah, yeah, he's great. We had him on too.
• 1:07:37
  And so that just made me think of that because
• 1:07:39
  he brought up like the illustrations stuff. So
• 1:07:41
  OK, so what's one thing about you your students
• 1:07:46
  or colleagues would be surprised to learn? Surprise,
• 1:07:50
  probably that I love to build Legos with my wife.
• 1:07:54
  So it's a great way for me to just kind of, again,
• 1:07:57
  unplug and disconnect and just be present. It's
• 1:08:01
  a great time for both of us to work together
• 1:08:04
  on a project and just talk. and share and you
• 1:08:10
  know you're just building together and it's just
• 1:08:12
  you know really nice memories of doing that so
• 1:08:15
  we try and do that as often as we can and which
• 1:08:18
  is great because then I get to buy more Legos
• 1:08:21
  and so we get to just build together and now
• 1:08:23
  like my I've got a lot of Legos now because we
• 1:08:26
  definitely do a lot of building but that's what
• 1:08:28
  that's that's the thing you know just having
• 1:08:30
  that quiet time peaceful build and just be present
• 1:08:34
  with one another. Okay, and finally, who's what's
• 1:08:38
  a guest you would like to have on your podcast
• 1:08:40
  next that you haven't had before? Oh, okay. So
• 1:08:43
  this one for sure I've been trying for like a
• 1:08:46
  year But I know that she's been very busy because
• 1:08:50
  she just had a book tour and everything like
• 1:08:52
  that But it would be dr. Emily M Bender You know,
• 1:08:56
  she's huge on LinkedIn and I just want to have
• 1:09:00
  her on to just hear her perspectives on AI as
• 1:09:03
  I know she's really Kind of more on the anti
• 1:09:07
  side of things but just to really just you know
• 1:09:10
  question and say like where did this thought
• 1:09:12
  process come from? How are you seeing things
• 1:09:15
  now? And especially us as educators, we are really
• 1:09:20
  diving in to these tools, but are there things
• 1:09:23
  that we haven't considered? Are there things
• 1:09:25
  that are, I mean, we see a lot of upside to it,
• 1:09:28
  but what might be some of those things that she
• 1:09:30
  may say, well, just really think about those
• 1:09:33
  things. So just have her on, hear her perspective
• 1:09:36
  and just. I don't know, just pick her brain.
• 1:09:41
  Like that's somebody that I've been following
• 1:09:43
  for a while now and kind of subtly hint. I did
• 1:09:47
  reach out to her once and she was busy. She's
• 1:09:49
  like, well, we're going to be doing our book
• 1:09:51
  tour and everything. So I know she's been busy,
• 1:09:53
  but hopefully one day I'll have her on or maybe
• 1:09:55
  you guys will have her on before and that that'd
• 1:09:57
  be great too. Cause I would love to listen to
• 1:09:59
  that show too. But I think you just gave her
• 1:10:02
  the perfect pitch to come onto your show. That
• 1:10:05
  should be a clip that you guys got and put it
• 1:10:08
  on LinkedIn and tag her. There you go. Yeah.
• 1:10:12
  All right. Well, Fonz, finally, where can people
• 1:10:15
  reach out to you or connect? Do you have anything
• 1:10:18
  coming up? I know we talked about you'll be at
• 1:10:21
  TCEA. And then maybe lastly, too, is there any
• 1:10:25
  EdTech life episodes that are coming up that
• 1:10:27
  we can look forward to? Yeah, absolutely. You
• 1:10:29
  can always find me at myedtech .life, where you
• 1:10:34
  can check out our 339 episodes after today. We'll
• 1:10:39
  be releasing one with Marissa Sadler Holder today,
• 1:10:43
  and she is fantastic. She's on LinkedIn. She
• 1:10:46
  has a wonderful heart and just a great passion.
• 1:10:48
  for education and helping educators continue
• 1:10:51
  to succeed and continue to grow. So that'll be
• 1:10:54
  the most recent episode. And you can find me
• 1:10:56
  on all socials at my tech life. I will also be
• 1:11:00
  at TCA this year from January 30th to February
• 1:11:04
  the 2nd, I believe. And I am a featured speaker
• 1:11:07
  there. So come and check out some of those sessions
• 1:11:10
  where we'll be talking about podcasting, we'll
• 1:11:12
  be talking about creativity, you know, and things
• 1:11:15
  of that sort and just be there and stop by. say
• 1:11:18
  hi and I mean like I said I always love to connect
• 1:11:20
  but that's where I'm at that's where you can
• 1:11:23
  find me and don't hesitate to ever reach out
• 1:11:25
  and DM for any questions or you have any help
• 1:11:28
  or need any help or anything let me know like
• 1:11:31
  I'm always readily available to help you in any
• 1:11:34
  way shape or form and that's all about that's
• 1:11:36
  what the professional learning network is all
• 1:11:39
  about sounds good and we'll be sure to include
• 1:11:42
  the links and things to reach out to you in the
• 1:11:46
  show description and make sure that viewers can
• 1:11:49
  get access to that. So Fonz, thanks again for
• 1:11:52
  joining us. We really appreciate it. And I hope
• 1:11:55
  the rest of the year. Thank you. I appreciate
• 1:11:57
  you guys. Thank you so much for the invite. Thanks
• 1:12:06
  for listening to Integrate This. Want to take
• 1:12:09
  your learning further? Head over to our YouTube
• 1:12:11
  channel for quick tutorials, deep dives, and
• 1:12:14
  more EdTech tips you can use right away. Don't
• 1:12:18
  forget to subscribe and catch new podcast episodes
• 1:12:21
  every Thursday on Apple, Spotify, or wherever
• 1:12:25
  you get your podcasts. Until next time, keep
• 1:12:28
  exploring, keep innovating, and keep integrating
• 1:12:31
  this.