Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / UNSOLVED: Girl, 10, Snatched from Ohio Bay Shopping Strip, Family Gets Bizarre Calls

Transcript

UNSOLVED: Girl, 10, Snatched from Ohio Bay Shopping Strip, Family Gets Bizarre Calls · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Bay Village police are seeking
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: a little girl who failed to return home from school
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: this afternoon. That brief but disturbing message started the search
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: for ten year old Amy. I, Nancy Grace, this is
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Fox Nation and series XM one eleven. First of all,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at Fox eight. I
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: called my mom, who then said no, she had choir
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: practice that Friday, which was odd. And then she still
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: wasn't home, and I called her again. Amy had called
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: her mom that afternoon, apparently in between Jason's two calls,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: apparently to reassure her authorities believe she was with her
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: abductor when she made that call. As time passed, though,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: when Jason called his mom a second time, the fear grew,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: and of course I said, everything into motion. Everyone knew
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: something was wrong. A massive search ensued. So when she's
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: not home, when she's supposed to be home, everyone began
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: feeling uneasy. She was supposed to have choir that afternoon
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: on a Friday afternoon, the teen year old little girl
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: didn't come home. You're hearing her brother Jason speaking. Take
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: a listen again, to our friends at Foxhate. Amy disappeared
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: from that square across the street after meeting a man
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: who had called her at home. He indicated that he
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: wanted to help Amy buy a surprise gift for her mother, Margaret,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: who had received her promotion at work. Something that was true,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: and he knew Amy was never seen alive again. Her
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: brother Jason was the first person to send something wrong
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: That October day. Amy got out of school about an
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: hour earlier than he did, meaning Amy was almost always
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: the first one home. I came home to an empty house,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: which was rare. How would the kidnapper know about the
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: mom's promotion? Did the ten year old girl unwillingly tell
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: him that? How did he know how to reach her?
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: All these questions surrounding the disappearance of a beautiful ten
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: year old little girl. Amy Mehalvic again, I'm Nancy Grace.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and series XM one eleven with
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: me and all star panel to make sense of what
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: we know right now. First of all, straight out to
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: special guests joining us news anchor from CBS nineteen Nicole Versansky. Nicole,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us and you can find
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: her in Nicole Versansky, Cleveland, nineteen Nicole, thanks for being
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: with us. Tell me about the afternoon that Amy went missing.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Amy ten years old. She's in fifth grade. She rides
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: bike to school, and that afternoon, specifically that afternoon, in
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: her class, she had an officer speaking in her class
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: about stranger danger. And we know that she left her
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: bike at school and she walked about a block away
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: after she got out of school to meet a man.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: She told a couple of friends she was going there
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: to meet someone to buy a gift from her mom.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: And she walks a couple bucks away from school. It's
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: an ice cream shop. There's an ice cream shop in
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: this plaza. It's a popular after school hangout. And she's
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: seen the last time Amy Mahalovic is seen as two
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: other ten year old boys saw her there with a man.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: She turned toward the parking lot with him, never to
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: be seen again. You're scaring me so much right now,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: because the Twins School is right down the hill from
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: a frozen customers like ice cream shop, and anytime between
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: twelve and four, you can see a parade of students
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: going up and down that sidewalk. If it's good, a
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: little high. You know, it's about maybe a quarter of
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: a mile to get there, but it's a hangout and
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: they all go there. That's exactly the same picture here.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: And what's so disturbing about this, Nancy as if you
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: talk to Amy's dad, Mark, Amy wasn't one to go
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: hang out and talk to a stranger. She was a
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: sweet girl, Mark girl got ais and bees, but she
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: wouldn't go up to someone. She never talked to strangers.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: So the person she was meeting wasn't a stranger to her.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: This is someone she felt she knew and she could trust. Now,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: it's interesting that you say, Nicole Versanski joining us CBS nineteen,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: that it's someone she knew, But you're in my definition
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: of someone she knew is very different from a child's
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: idea of someone they know. Because join me right now.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Del Carson high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville and former
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: FBI agent, author of a rest Proof yourself. You can
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: find him at del Carson law dot com, dell and
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: all your work with the FBI and all my work
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: dealing with child kidnap, child murder, cholm lasstation. You can
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: ask a child, well, who wasn't and they go, well,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: the janitor, or the yardman, or the guy at the
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: ice cream shop. They may not even know the name
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: of the person, yet they think they know the man
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: at the ice cream shop. He's there almost every afternoon,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: and he's taught to her in the past about her
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: family and her siblings and her dog and her bike.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: And she thinks she knows him, but she doesn't. Children
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: don't think the way we do. That's exactly right. And
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: more to the point, man, you know, the children's frame
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: of reference is fairly small, and the result is anybody
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: they know becomes important to them when they wouldn't be
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: important to adults at all. You know, that's really interesting
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: that you said that. Let me go to doctor Jerry
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Crossen joining US psychologists and Professor Saint Leo University, consultant
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: author of Operation SS. Doctor Jory, what do you make
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: of what Carson just said that a child's world is
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: so small that the people that they do know have
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: a significant importance to them. Yeah. And the big point too,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: is that they're very trusting. And when you look at
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: how freely we give trust into other people, you know,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: just a little bit of information if this person were
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: to say something that she may know about some of
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: her friends or her parents or something like that. You see,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: there's that connection now, and with that connection now comes trust.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: You know. Nicole Versanski is joining US News anchor, CBS nineteen. Nicole,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: you told me that she mentioned to several of her
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: friends that she who the guy was. She mentioned to
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: two of her friends. She never told her brother, never
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: told her family. And the indication is that this man
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: called her at home at least once, but likely more.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: But she did confide in two friends at school that
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: day that she was going after school to meet this
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: man to buy a gift for her mom for a
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: work promotion. So this person, this man, had enough information
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: on Amy as far as her mom. Margaret wasn't really promoted,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: she was going from part time to full time, but
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: had enough information to know that about Amy and be
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: able to lure her with the promise of you know,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: here she is. She's a ten year old girl thinking
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: she's doing something wonderful for her mom. She'd got a
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: surprise her with a gift, and that breaks your heart
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: when you think of just the innocence and the sweet
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: act of what she had intended to do. Greg Smith
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: joining me Special Deputy sheriff Johnson County Sheriff's Office and
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: executive director of the Kelsey Smith Foundation, named after his daughter,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: who was kidnapped and murdered. Kelsey, Greg thank you for
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: being with us. You know, when I'm hearing Nicole for
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Sansky described ten year old Amy, it almost masically want
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: to cry because this little girl is so trusting and
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: she thinks the kidnapper is going to take her to
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: buy a present for her mom's promotion. Yeah, and that's
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: the sad truth of the thing in a number of ways. One,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: it's too bad that in our society you can't trust
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: other people. But two, that's exactly what kids do. I mean,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: I have eight grandkids and you know, they're all so
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: sweet and innocent, and you listen to them talk about
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: who their friends are or who they met. And in
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: today's world, now their social media and you know, you
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: can boom somebody appears on a tablet or a phone.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: And if you've got school age kids, chances are the
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: schools giving you that equipment. So now they're bringing that
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: equipment home because they needed for school, but it can
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: be used for other purposes. So the world has changed
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: and in a lot of ways, not for the butter.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Her mind was occupied with getting a surprise gift for
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: her mother for her mom's promotion. Time Stories with Nancy,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Grace with Me Doctor Michelle Dupree, who wrote literally wrote
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: the book investigating child abuse Field Guide, Doctor Dupree. Very
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: often we see a child kidnapper on the uster, get
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: to know the child. It's called grooming, And I guarantee
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: you he got the information out of this child about
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: her mom getting the promotion and then used that as
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: a weapon to lure her into leaving her home, her school,
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: the ice cream shop to go off with him to
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: get a promotion gift. Yes, Nancy, that's exactly right. And
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: that's what they do, is they become friends and I
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: put those in air quotes with that child, and they
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: know things about them, and they seemed like they're very familiar,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: and so they gained that child's trump and the parents
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: would have no idea what was going on. Dodgy Dupree
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: because she's a latchkey kid like I was. When we
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: got off school, we walked literally over a mile home.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: My mom and dad were both at work. We knew
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: how to get into the home and we stayed there
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: till they got home or went and played or whatever,
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: and there was not a thought in the world that
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: anything bad could happen. I bet the parents didn't even
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: know this guy existed, that's right. Maybe at least not
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: in that capacity. They may have known the person, or
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: they may have been acquainted with him, but certainly they
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: did not know that the child was involved with them.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Was that each other again, del Carson? Because obviously they
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: had met before, because she told her friends, my friend's
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: going to take me to buy my mom a gift.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: They had obviously had phone conversations and had met, and
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I bet they met at that ice cream shop. But
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you the method of operation here, the MOO
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: is a bit unusual, and one wonders whether or not
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: this has happened in other locations which would lead you
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: to a potential suspect. There were multiple other girls in
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: the same general area who got a phone call, and
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: if you talk to detectives on the case, they believe
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: it was from this team. Man, Wow, okay, you're hearing
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: the call over Sansky jump in. I'm so you told
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: me that the coach joining a CBS iteen. I didn't
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: know that. Tell me about that other little girls got
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: phone calls. There were calls before and after Amy disappeared.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: North Omstead is a town just a few miles outside
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: of Bay Village. But the only connection investigators were ever
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: able to make between these girls and Amy's case is
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: just the proximity that they all lived in the same
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: general vicinity. There was no other real link that they
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: could ever find between the girls. Nicole ver Sansky joining
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: a CBS lighteen, what would he say on the phone
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: to the other girls? It was the same, Emma, I
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: want to take a shopping It Scott to Bay the
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: side guy who's calling ten year old little girls and
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: saying I want to take you shopping. Well, the search
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: ensued for ten year old little Amy, her family distraught,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: and then twist in the case, take a Little Star
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Friends at Fox eighth. One hundred four days later we
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: find her an count Amy's body was discovered by a
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: jogger in a field in Ashland County, which is about
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: fifty miles south of Bay Village. Investigators believe Amy's killer
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: may have been familiar with the area since it's in
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: a very remote location about ten feet off roadway right
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: in right in this area, Sheriff's deputy Karl Richard was
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: the first law enforcement officer unseen thrown on the side
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: of the road like trash. That tells me a lot
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: the m O, the MODUSOFTWA, and my method of operation
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: of disposal of the body. But also about this remote location,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Nicole Versianski joining us CBS nineteen, you know, you were
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: just saying that other girls in the general area had
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: also been getting calls from an adult mail that wanted
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: to take them shopping. He had to put together their
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: names and phone numbers. He had to have contact with
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: them to figure out their names and how to locate
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: their numbers. He was watching other girls. This may not
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: be his only victim as far as that remote location,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: because you describe the location for me, Nicole, for Sansky,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: it's in the middle of nowhere, Nancy, and there was nothing.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: This is God's country. This is farm fields that spanned
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: for miles and miles. So the person who did this
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: to Amy had to be familiar with that location in
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Ashlyn County. You don't just stumble upon this field. I
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: want to point out a case similar in this aspect
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: at least, and this case is you know, textbooked example
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: for so many aspects of murder. Greg Smith joining us
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Johnson County Sheriff's Office is Scott Peterson. That's an example
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: of committing a crime or disposing of evidence in a
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: place with which you are familiar. Scott Peterson murdered his
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: wife Lacy and their unborn child, Connor, and he went
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: to one of his old fishing holes to dump the
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: body of San Francisco Bay and then places him self
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: at the scene of the murder on the day of
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: the murder. Lacy and Connor wash ashore a couple of
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: months later. But that's where he is familiar. That was
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: comfortable for him. He felt he knew the area. So
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: I think Greg, that nicoleover Santski's right. Yeah, they I
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: mean they look for places that are familiar to them
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: where they do feel comfortable. In addition, I mean those
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: of them that do some planning and really think about
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: these things, and our career criminals, if they have familiar
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: places and they're seen in those familiar places, it also
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: sets up an alibi for them when something is found
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: DNA or something else. Well, yeah, but I'm always in
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: this area. You're just you're just trying to pend this
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: on me because people have seen me here. You know.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Another issue is I was alluding to earlier about how
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: he could connect the little girls he meets at Francis
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: ice cream shop with their home address. If you can
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: get their home address out of them, or their phone number,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: it's simple. If you could get their parents' name, he can.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: You can go online and google a name a city
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: and get a set of phone numbers, or if you
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: still use the old phone book, you can do it
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: that way. Who is that day? I'll get jump in. Yeah,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: you know, it's so easy to trick a young child.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: You simply make the phone call and we should all
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: be aware of this. And you say, I'm Jack, I'm
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: friends with your dad, and how's your mom doing? Is
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: she okay? What's going on? And the child just liberates
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: that information because they have no fear. They don't have
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: the frame of reference which teach them not to tell
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: people stuff like that. And if they've not been warned
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: about stranger danger, then they just open up because there's
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: a belief and they do believe that that person has
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: a direct connection with a family, even though they may
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: not be aware of it. And other thing, it's it's scary.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Doctor Jorry Crossen, and I've tried this on my own children.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Doctor Jory is joining AUS Psychologist's Faculty Saint Leo University
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: and author doctor Jory. Studies have shown that you can
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: tell your children over and over about stranger danger, about
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: what to do if a car approaches you, or what
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: to do if somebody comes to the door and you
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: don't know them. But children immediately after hearing it. And
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: you just heard Nicole for Zaansky tell us they had
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: a stranger danger speaker in their class the day that
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Amy goes missing and she still went with this guy.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: I've done it with my own twins and they, you know,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: they don't process the way adults processes. Studies show that, yeah,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: and they're again they're so trusting and it's so easy
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: to disarm them and establish that trust. One thing too,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: I wanted to add in this location. You know when
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: I do it with sex offenders and evaluated him in court,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: you always want to get into their fantasy. And you know,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: we know like serial killers would take momentums and trophies
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: and stuff, there's connections of where they leave the body
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: and the fantasy with it so being and out in
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: an area where it's secluded, like she said, and this
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: time you drive for miles. You know, there's a good
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: chance he revisited it, and that was part of his
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: fantasy to go back out there, not even get close
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: to the body, but by driving out there, he's still
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: going to start this fantasy process in his mind. Explain
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: what that means, doctor Jory Cross and psychologist about living
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: out the fantasy, including the disposal of the body. Is
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: that is psychologically the devancy, the perversion, that's the reward.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: And if you can as a psychologist, okay, doing like
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: a Jimmy Rice evaluation, if I can get into that
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: and tap into that, that's where a lot of these
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: whys and other things, even though we may not understand them,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: but there's a lot of that's the psychological heart, that's
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: the reason in his deviation and perversion. You know, call
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: all the psychological terms as evilness. Basically, to think about
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: the way that this young girl was thrown dead on
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: the side of the road is so upsetting, It is
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: so callous. Listen to our friends at WKYC. That body
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: has been positively identified as that of Amy Mahalovick. But
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: it all came to a heartbreaking end about a quarter
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: of a mile down this quiet country road. February eighth,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: the day the body of Amy Mahalovik was found in
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: a field in Ashland County, fifty miles from her home
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: in Bay Village. It was found there, it was only
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: about fifteen feet from the road, uncovered and in plain
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: sight of numerous people driving by. She'd been stabbed, beaten,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: and sexually assaulted. The manner of disposal of this body
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: brings two cases to mine. One is a case I
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: investigated and covered Chanelle Petro Nixon, beautiful young teen girl.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: She went out of the apartment for an errand and
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: was never seen alive again. Her body was found in
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: a trash bag left on Kingston Avenue. It also brings
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: to mind the case of Nicole Lovell, thirteen year old
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: little girl that was lured out of her home by
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: a Virginia Tech student, David Eisenhower, and she was found
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: naked and wiped down some type of alcohol hye and
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: thrown naked off the side of the road. What does
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: that mean to you, doctor Joy? The disposal of the
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: body like it's trash, Well, it can mean several things.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: And you know that's where like the behavioral aspects like
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: how it's placed, you know, if it's just a card,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: as like trash like you say, if it's wrapped up
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: in a bag. You know. Sometimes they're they're posed is
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: the word that we use. You know, they're they're staged.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: There's there's significantly how that body. Guys take a listen
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: to our friends at w E wus. Amy disappeared from
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Bay Village shopping center on October twenty seventh. Police say
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: she had gotten a call from a man luring her
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: to a nearby shopping plaza with the promise to help
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: her buy a gift for her mom. Well four months later,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: a jogger found her body fifty miles away. Police have
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: a database, they say, of more than twelve thousand names
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: connected to this case, but so far no arrest. Her
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: dad says he is not giving up, just gonna take
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: just that one person. You don't keep you don't do
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: something like that, keep it a secret, throat telling somebody
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: else about it. Nicole Versanski joining us from CBS nineteen Amy,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: just aged ten, who disappears, her body found assaulted and
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: thrown by the side of the road. Her dad very
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: very rarely speaks of it. I understand, Nicole, that the
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: heartbreak is still very close to the surface. And see,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: he's never gone down the road where Amy's body was found.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: He sees absolutely no reason, he has ever reason in
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: the world to be bitter and to be an angry man.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: And he is still just such an incredibly kind, sweet,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: nice man. But the heartbreak, you can still see the
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: emptiness in eyes. He loves to talk about Amy, and
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: you know, any will and he'll smile, and he'll talk
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: about how when she was five and six she was
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: diving off the high dive and just what an athlete
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: too was, and how much she loved horses, and she
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: used to draw him horses. He showed me a picture
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: once she drew him this horse and it was polka dotted,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: and you can see the smile in his eyes, and
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: then you know, a mental pause and just nick it dumpty.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Time doesn't feel a wound like this, Nicole ver sans Key,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: joining us from CBS nineteen and to store of podcast
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Dark Side of the Land. Who Killed Amy Moholovic. I
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: want to talk to doctor Michelle Dupree again, not only
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: author of Investigating Child to Be's feel Guide, but medical examiner, pathologist,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: and author of homicide investigation to feel a guide. What
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: do you make of the mode of murdyr Doctor Dupree Nancy.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: There's a couple of things. One, I'd like to just
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: go back a moment and talk about the method of disposal.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: This is very open it is there's no forensic countermeasures taken.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: This is a disorganized killer. Slowdown when you just throw
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: out the term forensic countermeasures, explain, So, forensic countermeasures are
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: things that people may do to try and hide the crime.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: They take some type of staging would be a forensic countermeasure.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: In this case, you know, the body wasn't staged. It
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: was just sort of left. You mean, like Alex Murtague
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: using two guns to suggest someone else was involved in
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: the killing, got it exactly exactly. So no countermeasures here,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: And what does that mean to you in addition to
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: the mode of death. So that means to me that
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: it's basically sort of not very well planned, if you will,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: and again that it's a disorganized type of killer. They
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: may have done this before. That's actually very good because
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: there was some there was some other children that were contacted.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: He was looking to do this. I think that's obvious
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: by the whole scenario, Nancy, if I could jump in
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: for just a moment as far as there are indications
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: we know yes this is Nicole, go ahead because I
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: was going to ask you about prior hang up calls,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: But go ahead. There are indications that her Amy's body
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: was wrapped in a blanket and a curtain, and there
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: are also items that were taken from her. There are
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: items that are missing to this day that Amy was
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: wearing the day she disappeared. Interesting, I wonder if those
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: were souvenirs. And about that curtain, take a listen to
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: our friends at NIE's five Cleveland Bay Village. Police are
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: so focused on this curtain found three hundred yards away
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: from Maholivick's body in a field in Ashland County. Who's
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: always thought that they were connected somehow, And now, through
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: the advance of DNA technology and testing, when you've been
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: able to determine that Amy's hair was actually on that curtain,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: investigators urge anyone who can help identify this curtain to
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: contact them. The curtain is it's very unique. It almost
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: looks to be handmade. Back to you, nicolever sands Key,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: tell me again, about clothing missing from ten year old
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Amy's body and the curtain. Turquoise horsehead earrings gone okay, wow,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: turquoise horsehead earrings okay, black ankle height riding boots, a
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: black leather binder that her dad gave her. It has
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: had buick basting class on it. Her book bag, and
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: a white wind breaker. Those items are very likely in
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: the possession of the person who did this to Amy.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: The culver Sansky, You're so right to doctor Jerry Cross
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: and psychologist. Killers, especially serial killers, keep mementos they're victims.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: It can be like in this case earrings, shoes, underwear,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: but all sorts of things. What motivates them to do that.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: That's part of that fantasy that they can relive it
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: and adjust it fitted into their demanded mind as to
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: how it came about. So you know that they call them,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: you know, trophies, but they are things to remember this behavior,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: this act, this person again in their mind. And you
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: know again when you tie in like the sexual offenders,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: it has to do with the violence and the perversion
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: that fantasy life that they have. Del Carson joining me,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville and former fed with
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: the FBI. Dell, I'm a big scrapbooker. I in my mind,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: killers tell these mementos from their victims just the same
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: way I would put ticket stubs or a photo in
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: one of my scrap puts. Well, it's the remembrance. But
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: I talked this for the Bureau the sex offenders, and
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: I will simply tell you it's part of the ritualization.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: And what you find is that they behave this way
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: and it changes and gets more internally complex over time.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: So that's in one way is to track the serial killer.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: You find that they do it this way, it's not successful.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: They have to add something to it as part of
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: the ritualization, and that's how we can track these individuals
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: over time and see how long they've been engaged in
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: the activity. So when you see a disorganized killer like this,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: who simply throws the body out and throws the containing
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: material out at a different location, is very disorganized. You'll
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: find that they become better at it as they move along.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: It's frightening, guys. Speaking of the curtain of that, Nico
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: over Sansky first told us all of a sudden handmade
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: looking curtain, a curtain that was found yards and yards
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: away from her body. Now reveals that one of her
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: hairs was all that curtain. It did not come from
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: her family home. Take a listen to our friend Peggy
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Gallant Fox eight. Law enforcement officials have taken DNA samples
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: from people as recently as a couple months ago. We
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: just don't want to miss anything, and that's why they're continuing.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: And a detective with the Bay Village Police Department tells
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: the IT Team that a lot of the DNA testing
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: they are doing now is to help eliminate possible suspects
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: and to make sure any of the DNA they do
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: have is not what they refer to as contamination DNA,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: such as a hair from a law enforcement agent that
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: was at the scene. So we're always ruling people out
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: or checking people that were previous suspects. Time Stories with
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Law enforcement officials have taken DNA samples from
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: people as recently as a couple months ago. We just
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: don't want to miss anything, and that's why they're very continuing,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: and a detective with the Bay Village Police Department tells
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: the IT Team that a lot of the DNA testing
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: they are doing now is to help eliminate possible suspects,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: and to make sure any of the DNA they do
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: have is not what they refer to as contamination DNA,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: such as a hair from a law enforcement agent that
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: was at the scene. So we're always ruling people out
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: or checking people that were previous suspects. Joining me right now,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: very special guests. You know her well, Shira la Point,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: genetic genealogist, author of the gene Hunter That's Gna and
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: founder of the gene hunter dot com on Twitter, La
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Point Shia Sara, thank you for being with us. Boy
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: do we need you now? You know you can't just
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: run the hair. We have to now use very sophisticated
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: miticondual DNA analysis, and that type of analysis has been
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: refined dealing specifically with contaminated DNA. What do you make
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: of what you're hearing? What should be done? Dnays hey,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: shir up before you answer that question. Listener. WKYC, a
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: ten year old girl who loved horses and wore a
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: cross around her neck in one of the most shared
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: missing children's posters of all time, murdered. Her killer never caught,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: While her story became the subject of documentaries featured over
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: the years on Talk shows as investigators continued their public
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: outreach with billboards sharing as well. This handmade curtain and
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: blanket found within feet of Amy's body. Believe she was
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: wrapped in it, hoping that someone might recognize where it
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: came from. But so far nothing. Okay, sure a point.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: You're the genetic genealogists, do your thing, Nancy. We have
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: a quilt that was made into a curtain. Someone cut
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: up a corner and made tabs. That tells me that
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: if we can get DNA off that curtain, it would
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: tell us number one, possibly we made the curtain where
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: it comes from. But also she was wrapped in that
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: homemade curtain. We shed approximately four hundred thousand epithelial sails
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: a day. Whoever carried her and left her in that field,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: it's a good chance their DNA is actually on that curtain.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: And nowadays we can take the graded DNA from a
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: curtain that she was wrapped in thirty two years ago
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: and find small amounts of DNA to get an accurate
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: profile and figure out using genetic genealogy who touched that curtain,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: and that's going to give us some answers. They were
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: able to prove that it was her hair on that curtain.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: But there are new forensic grade genome sequencing DNA that
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: can be done now to help us figure this out.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: How hard is it, Cheryl appoint the gene hunter to
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: extract usable DNA from a contaminated source. It has been
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: historically very very difficult to do. But with the advancements
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: in DNA technology that we have private forensic labs that
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: are doing work like operas that can take these cases
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: with little, little evidence or degraded DNA and they can
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: break it down and it would give genetic information that
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: would help us build a family tree to figure out
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: whose DNA is on that curtain based on epiphilial cell
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: skin cells that were left on the curtain. Absolutely, that
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: is the DNA that you would be looking at, and
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: it would be autosomal DNA that could be used to
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: figure this out, and it would tell us number one,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, who maybe even who made the curtain,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: where the curtain came from, and I just I have
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: to believe that the perpetrator's DNA is absolutely on that curtain.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm curious to culver Sanski joining us CBS
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: nineteen and star of Dark Side of the Land, who
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: killed Amy Mahalovick Nicole, she had been sex assaulted. Was
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: there no sperm left behind? Let's consider she was likely
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: dumb very shortly after she was abducted. She was in
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: that field until February. Gosh. Yeah. But I do want
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: to mention over the past, speaking to testing and DNA testing,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: over the past two years, they've spent about seventy five
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars on advanced DNA testing. And again, that biggest
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: hurdle is that this is thirty two years old, and
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: that is a big zactor in the quality of any
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: of the DNA that they do test. And then there's
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: a risk there because oftentimes when you're testing this evidence,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: you're you know, you're ruining that evidence. Well, there is
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: a way that DNA can be extended. You regenerate the
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: DNA in the lab to create an f DNA to
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: perform additional tests. Not always true, but often true. Is
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: there a twist in the case. Take a listen to
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: our cut nine our friends at Needs five Cleveland. The
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: details come straight out of recently filed court documents. They're
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: the sworn statements. The lead detective with Bay Village Police,
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: following up on a tip suggesting on now sixty four
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: year old man could be Amy Mahalovic's killer. According to
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: a sworn affidavit, that tip came back in January twenty nineteen,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: a woman told detectives she suspected her ex boyfriend killed
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: the ten year old Bay Village girl. We're not naming
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: the man since he hasn't in charge with anything. According
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: to police, she said the man never came home the
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: night Amy Mahalovic disappeared from the Bay Village Square shopping
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: center and more in our cut ten from these five.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Cleveland investigators say the woman did hear from the man
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: that night, though a phone call asking if she was
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: aware of news coverage about Amy's disappearance. During that call,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: the woman told police the man said his niece and
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: brother's family knew Mahalovic. In fact, police say the man's
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: niece was the same age and in the same grade
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: as Amy, and the woman also believed she recalled her
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: ex boyfriend tell her he knew Amy for years. Police
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: have said prior to her abduction, the ten year old
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: received a phone call from a man and wanting to
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: arrange a meeting with the girl to help pick out
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: a gift for Amy's mother. So that's amazing to me.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: They call for sansky that this now sixty four year
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: old man says that his niece was the same age
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: and the same grade as Amy. Why would this guy?
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: They asking had she seen the news coverage? Isn't it
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: true he walked into the police station and gave a
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: statement either all incredible questions, Nancy, But I will tell
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: you detectives are keeping pretty tight to their vest with
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: this one. They have their eye on suspects plural, and
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: the most they will say is that, yes, one of
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: them have come up recently. I think the fear here
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: is that they don't want to put all their eggs
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: in a basket and have someone out there who knows
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: something or thinks they might have information think, oh, they
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: got their guy. Well, why don't they just do a
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: DNA analysis with the most advanced technique. But there's even
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: more to what this guy is saying. Take a listen
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: to our cut eleven News five. Cleveland police say during
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: an interview with a man in the fall of twenty nineteen,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: the man quote indicated he may have met Mahalavak's mother
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: in a bar, and that quote maybe he didn't know
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: who he was talking to. Police say they asked the
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: man whether he ever called Amy prior to her abduction.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: The detective wrote, the man said I could have, and
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: that it could have been a wrong number. According to
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: court documents, when asked again if there was a possibility
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: that he called her, the man said yes. Del Carson.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Why is a man in his thirties calling a ten
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: year old little girl all the fact, Well, there can
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: be no good reason for that, obviously, but it does
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: demonstrate the link that the child perceived was with her family,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: because she could say, He could say to her, my
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: niece is in school with you, and I would like
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: to match up with you. Those were all mechanism key
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: to the lock of self protection that opens up and
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: allows him to continue to manipulate the child. As of
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: right now, after all the years have passed, Amy's father
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: still holding out hope that her killer will be apprehended.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. The tip line four four
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: zero eight seven one one two three four repeat four
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: four zero eight seven one one two three four. Goodbye friend,