Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 320 - Operational in Dealey Plaza Pt. 2

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 320 - Operational in Dealey Plaza Pt. 2 · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know what he's up to. It's picking
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: me like chicken, shoking me like corn, storing me like
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: an ice storm in April, and.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: The Lone Gunman in the Shadows whispers of truth or deception,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Lost in the web of conspiracy in Dallas, with secrets
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: like a shot echoes through daily Plaza.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: The Lone gun Man still unfinals between the awful and
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: the classy, nose the truth and mystery untold on airways.
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: The story never doos.
• 1:06
  Speaker 5: Jack Rupie's name in whispers a man with secrets to
• 1:10
  Speaker 5: deliver a shadows Dance in the moonlight. The Lone gun
• 1:15
  Speaker 5: Men unravels the fight.
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: Truth bury in history is to.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: The Lone gun Man still unfolds between the ruwful and
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: the classy, all the truth and mystery untold on their ways, The.
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: Story never does.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: The Lone Gunman still unfolds between awful and the classing.
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: All the truth and mystery untold on their ways. The
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: story never does. The story never does on anyways. The
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: story never does.
• 2:29
  Speaker 5: Jack Ruby's name and whispers a man with secrets to
• 2:33
  Speaker 5: deliver a shadows Dance in the moonlight. The Longer then
• 2:38
  Speaker 5: unravels the fight.
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: Truth buried in histories too.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: The Lone Gunmans tell unfolds between the awful and Glassymo.
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: The truth and mystery untou on.
• 2:54
  Speaker 6: Any Ways, the.
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: Story never does.
• 3:25
  Speaker 7: What is up? What is Up? Welcome to the show.
• 3:28
  Speaker 7: This is episode number three and twenty of The Gunman Podcast.
• 3:33
  Speaker 7: This is part due of Operational and Dailey Plaza, where
• 3:39
  Speaker 7: we're going to be taking you through some of the
• 3:42
  Speaker 7: people who we think we're on the ground at the
• 3:46
  Speaker 7: time of the assassination and why we think that, because
• 3:51
  Speaker 7: that's an important part of the whole story. Why we
• 3:54
  Speaker 7: think that. Sure, we can just sit here and say
• 3:56
  Speaker 7: who we think it was, but I think it's important
• 3:59
  Speaker 7: to have some very sound and logical reasons for that, because,
• 4:04
  Speaker 7: like I said before, lots of people have claimed to
• 4:08
  Speaker 7: be in Dealey Plaza with a gun and shooting at
• 4:15
  Speaker 7: the president, and it's the people that don't say they
• 4:17
  Speaker 7: were there that you got to worry about. And last
• 4:22
  Speaker 7: week we got into Lawrence Howard and Philippe Vidao Santiago
• 4:27
  Speaker 7: a little bit. This week we're going to be going
• 4:30
  Speaker 7: to get into Lauren Hall and Roy Hargraves a little bit.
• 4:36
  Speaker 7: Unmute yourself, Joe, there, you go.
• 4:38
  Speaker 6: Yes, sir, I was waiting for you to finish, but
• 4:41
  Speaker 6: I did have myself muted in the beginning, So thank you,
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: and here we go. How are you doing tonight, sir?
• 4:48
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I saw that I covered for you. It's all good.
• 4:52
  Speaker 6: You're a good guy.
• 4:53
  Speaker 7: I didn't want to have a cold open on the
• 4:54
  Speaker 7: show like we did last week when you left your
• 4:56
  Speaker 7: mic open during the intro and you and Ruby were
• 4:58
  Speaker 7: having playtime or whatever was one one over there? Uh
• 5:02
  Speaker 7: fur was flying everywhere whatever happened there. Yeah, So let's
• 5:10
  Speaker 7: welcome some folks in, shall we. Joe, who's here to
• 5:14
  Speaker 7: play with us this evening?
• 5:15
  Speaker 6: Let's see, let us see here.
• 5:20
  Speaker 7: Trey is here, what's up? Trey Claude is in the house,
• 5:25
  Speaker 7: Tiny Dancer, Big Mike Ouph of sixty six south to
• 5:30
  Speaker 7: West is in the house. Jack, what's up? Jack? James
• 5:34
  Speaker 7: is in the house, James Smith. And let's see who
• 5:38
  Speaker 7: else we got here? Paul coming, what's up?
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: Paul?
• 5:43
  Speaker 7: And we got Paul vines to Paul's in the house.
• 5:46
  Speaker 7: Hatty hatty. Uh see, you know, Evil is in the house.
• 5:52
  Speaker 7: Roger Lee, Henry Oswald is in the house. Our music man,
• 5:56
  Speaker 7: what's up? What's up? Hey, Roger, hit me up because
• 6:02
  Speaker 7: we got a problem with the intro, So holler at me,
• 6:05
  Speaker 7: bro Uh, I might need you to resend me the intro.
• 6:09
  Speaker 7: I've been having to use this AI ship the past
• 6:12
  Speaker 7: couple of times. I don't like it. Scott Scott is
• 6:18
  Speaker 7: in the house, Greg, What is up? Greg? That's my buddy,
• 6:24
  Speaker 7: uh from Dallas. Let's see Garden and Guns is in
• 6:27
  Speaker 7: the house. Hi, Jig and Dico Dico, what's up? Paula
• 6:35
  Speaker 7: is in reporting in better late than never, Paula. We
• 6:40
  Speaker 7: won't hold it against you, I promise. Oh yeah, definitely
• 6:45
  Speaker 7: got a full house and uh, I will say also,
• 6:49
  Speaker 7: welcome to our new members we have. We have a couple, Joe, Yeah,
• 6:56
  Speaker 7: we do. Uh. Let me see. Let me pull these
• 6:59
  Speaker 7: up here so I don't murder the names. Let's see. Yeah,
• 7:11
  Speaker 7: Scott joined two days ago, Jeff at Silk City, and
• 7:16
  Speaker 7: Mark just joined today. I had to help him a
• 7:19
  Speaker 7: little bit. Uh okay, figure out where to finally join button.
• 7:27
  Speaker 6: And is that better found on a laptop compared to
• 7:32
  Speaker 6: an iPhone? Is that how you helped him?
• 7:34
  Speaker 7: Yeah, he wasn't seeing it on his phone, so I
• 7:37
  Speaker 7: told him to try a laptop and apparently that worked.
• 7:40
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so that is the best leaper. Yes, the best
• 7:45
  Speaker 6: practices for becoming a member would.
• 7:48
  Speaker 7: Be now it works on my phone on my YouTube app.
• 7:52
  Speaker 7: Now you know I can see join. But you know,
• 7:57
  Speaker 7: apparently there's a whole bunch of different factors. You know,
• 7:59
  Speaker 7: it depends on what what kind of phone you got,
• 8:03
  Speaker 7: whether or not the app needs updating, or it's an
• 8:05
  Speaker 7: old version of the app, or whatever the case may be.
• 8:07
  Speaker 7: But we figured it out. So welcome in Mark, And
• 8:10
  Speaker 7: if you missed our members only exclusive show, I will
• 8:13
  Speaker 7: say Joe that we had a bit of a bit
• 8:15
  Speaker 7: of a banger Wednesday night.
• 8:18
  Speaker 6: We always do. Yeah, well as of reason.
• 8:22
  Speaker 7: Yes, yeah, we we got into a little bit leftover
• 8:29
  Speaker 7: tibits from Lawrence Howard that I couldn't get into the
• 8:33
  Speaker 7: last show. And we also talked about the United Healthcare
• 8:39
  Speaker 7: CEO assassination a little bit, which we're not going to
• 8:43
  Speaker 7: cover very much on here. On this version. We can
• 8:47
  Speaker 7: be a little bit more open on the members only show.
• 8:51
  Speaker 7: But I will throw this up here, Joe, because you know,
• 8:55
  Speaker 7: I am the ever loving conspiracy theorist of the group,
• 8:59
  Speaker 7: and I always love I mean, my Bodo is don't
• 9:04
  Speaker 7: trust anybody and question everything. Okay, So when I see
• 9:09
  Speaker 7: something like this that's fed to us by the mainstream media,
• 9:16
  Speaker 7: I got a problem. So let me pop this up
• 9:19
  Speaker 7: here real quick, Joe. Sure, Now they tell you that
• 9:23
  Speaker 7: these are images of the shooter. Okay. Now, one of
• 9:28
  Speaker 7: the first things that totally jumps out of me is
• 9:30
  Speaker 7: the different color backpacks. Now, in the video of the
• 9:35
  Speaker 7: actual shooting, the backpack is clearly silvery gray, which is
• 9:42
  Speaker 7: matches to the image we see on the left right.
• 9:46
  Speaker 7: But on the image on the right, that's clearly a
• 9:49
  Speaker 7: black backpack. And I mean clearly, I mean that's not
• 9:52
  Speaker 7: a lighting issue. That is a black backpack. Bro. Yes,
• 9:56
  Speaker 7: not to mention that the jacket itself, if you look
• 10:02
  Speaker 7: at the one on the right, it has two front
• 10:03
  Speaker 7: flat pockets flap pockets that I just don't see in
• 10:09
  Speaker 7: the image on the left. Now, could that be some
• 10:13
  Speaker 7: kind of video degradation? I don't know. I don't know,
• 10:18
  Speaker 7: But to me, these look like two different people. And
• 10:23
  Speaker 7: of course this could be the conspiracy theorist in me
• 10:25
  Speaker 7: coming out again, Joe, But how many professional assassins do
• 10:29
  Speaker 7: you know? There were four hundred dollars hoodies, thousand dollars
• 10:33
  Speaker 7: Hermi's calfskin sneakers and three hundred dollars peak design everyday,
• 10:39
  Speaker 7: thirty liters backpacked.
• 10:40
  Speaker 6: Wait, go back to the sneakers Hermes calfskin sneaker. Yeah, wow, okay, yeah.
• 10:51
  Speaker 6: And the suppressor obviously is.
• 10:55
  Speaker 7: It's either part of the gun that we talked about
• 10:57
  Speaker 7: the other night, yep, or it is a did you
• 11:00
  Speaker 7: know pressor either way that combination or the other gun.
• 11:06
  Speaker 7: You're looking at two three thousand dollars pieces, you know.
• 11:14
  Speaker 7: And oh, by the way, they still haven't caught the guy.
• 11:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and do you know what was So the three
• 11:22
  Speaker 6: spent shellcasings allegedly had something written on them. Did you
• 11:30
  Speaker 6: hear about this?
• 11:32
  Speaker 7: I thought it was written on the bullets, because remember
• 11:36
  Speaker 7: they didn't they didn't find shell cases because he allegedly
• 11:39
  Speaker 7: caught them coming out of the gun.
• 11:42
  Speaker 6: That's what we thought. But I think there was three found.
• 11:48
  Speaker 6: I thought I booked marked this on Twitter. I might
• 11:52
  Speaker 6: not have, but it was the three Deny Depose another
• 12:02
  Speaker 6: d or something. And it had to do with a
• 12:06
  Speaker 6: book that was written against the insurance companies right of
• 12:12
  Speaker 6: how they don't acknowledge their claims. So it's like and
• 12:18
  Speaker 6: their's official reporting on what was written on these shellcasings.
• 12:26
  Speaker 6: Is that him leaving a message or is that him
• 12:29
  Speaker 6: doing a complete misdirection and trying to, you know, throw
• 12:34
  Speaker 6: off anyone that might try to investigate depos Thank you, Paul,
• 12:40
  Speaker 6: Thank you, Paul. Our chat comes through once again.
• 12:46
  Speaker 7: Yeah and yeah, tiny that is not supposed to be
• 12:48
  Speaker 7: the same place. Apparently, these are two different screenshots from
• 12:50
  Speaker 7: two different surveillance cameras. That was a Starbucks and and
• 12:56
  Speaker 7: I'm not sure what the other one was from.
• 12:58
  Speaker 6: I believe it was from his hostile stole and the
• 13:03
  Speaker 6: of course allegedly and the lady at the hostel had
• 13:08
  Speaker 6: like got him to put his mask down. And I
• 13:13
  Speaker 6: mean and and honestly, men, it might not be it
• 13:17
  Speaker 6: a man. Punt intended it could be a woman. I mean,
• 13:22
  Speaker 6: one of those pictures looks like it could be a woman.
• 13:26
  Speaker 7: I'm not saying it is. What could be? I mean,
• 13:27
  Speaker 7: there's not enough really there to tell.
• 13:30
  Speaker 6: Yeah, uh so really interesting about this person something.
• 13:33
  Speaker 7: The problem, the problem with one thing that I was
• 13:36
  Speaker 7: having when when you watch that video is the fact,
• 13:41
  Speaker 7: because look, I'm a handgun owner, and if it's an automatic,
• 13:47
  Speaker 7: we're not semi automatic right. I really don't know if
• 13:51
  Speaker 7: too many modern day handguns that aren't semi automatic that
• 13:56
  Speaker 7: when you shoot them they automatically eject the shill and
• 13:59
  Speaker 7: chamber another round. You don't have to you don't have
• 14:03
  Speaker 7: to rack the slide in between all the shots. That's
• 14:06
  Speaker 7: crazy talk, you know what I'm saying. So that action
• 14:12
  Speaker 7: in between the shots is what baffles me the most.
• 14:15
  Speaker 7: And the one thing that does make sense is that
• 14:17
  Speaker 7: B and T or that B and T six six
• 14:20
  Speaker 7: y nine gun or whatever that thing was that actually
• 14:24
  Speaker 7: had a rotating chamber that does not eject the shell.
• 14:28
  Speaker 7: You have to manually eject the shell, and it has
• 14:31
  Speaker 7: a built in suppressor, so it kind of checks all
• 14:35
  Speaker 7: the boxes on what that looks like. But of course
• 14:40
  Speaker 7: we don't know. Sure, yes, and integraly suppressed.
• 14:46
  Speaker 6: Yes, yes. And Garden and Guns we uh. I think
• 14:49
  Speaker 6: I shouted you out on our members only when we
• 14:52
  Speaker 6: were initially talking about this, I said, I think we'll
• 14:54
  Speaker 6: have to ask Garden and Guns what's up with this.
• 14:57
  Speaker 8: Because it it's alleged that the gun jammed, but he
• 15:05
  Speaker 8: was very calm and collected and kind of did whatever
• 15:09
  Speaker 8: you have to do to unjam it, or it almost
• 15:12
  Speaker 8: looked bolt action. So it's a very interesting situation, but
• 15:19
  Speaker 8: especially because the NYPD came out immediately saying it was
• 15:23
  Speaker 8: a targeted attack, which you might not expect from from
• 15:28
  Speaker 8: the mainstream media right away, right, you expect a bunch
• 15:31
  Speaker 8: of disinformation and confusion.
• 15:35
  Speaker 6: And I'm not saying there isn't that now, but you know,
• 15:39
  Speaker 6: he allegedly fled to Central Park and on an e
• 15:46
  Speaker 6: bike and I guess maybe shedded some of his clothes
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: and somehow got got away and is still at large.
• 15:57
  Speaker 6: So very interesting, and like with the Trump assassination, it's
• 16:03
  Speaker 6: not really political, it's just what can we learn about?
• 16:09
  Speaker 6: It's interesting experiencing this events in real time, right, That's
• 16:13
  Speaker 6: that's all it really is. Right. I don't know if
• 16:18
  Speaker 6: it was a nine millimeter tiny, but.
• 16:22
  Speaker 7: Yeah it was, Oh it wasn't it. Okay, I'm going
• 16:25
  Speaker 7: to pull a picture up. Hold on, let me see
• 16:27
  Speaker 7: if I can share my screen of this thing. Hold on, sure, Okay,
• 16:44
  Speaker 7: this is the thing that I was talking about. It's
• 16:47
  Speaker 7: called the B and T Station six nine, and it
• 16:50
  Speaker 7: has a magazine fed rotating. It's almost like a very
• 17:00
  Speaker 7: a smaller version of like a revolver, but it has
• 17:02
  Speaker 7: a revolving chamber and the shells are not automatically ejected.
• 17:08
  Speaker 7: H So you have to racket after every shot and
• 17:12
  Speaker 7: you can catch the shell.
• 17:15
  Speaker 6: So do you think you maybe caught the shells and
• 17:17
  Speaker 6: then dropped like some decoy shells, because I believe they
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: said some were recovered at the scene and with those words,
• 17:26
  Speaker 6: so it's possible.
• 17:28
  Speaker 7: I don't know, I mean either, you know, you can't
• 17:31
  Speaker 7: really tell from the video very much.
• 17:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah, very early in the process.
• 17:34
  Speaker 7: It's definitely not a I don't think it's a gun
• 17:37
  Speaker 7: jamming that bad. I mean, if it is, that's a
• 17:42
  Speaker 7: real piece of shit pistol. Yeah. They call it a
• 17:47
  Speaker 7: bolt action well rod pistol, so it's like a miniature
• 17:52
  Speaker 7: boat action pistol, and it does not automatically eject the shell.
• 17:58
  Speaker 7: You have to feed it like like Lee Harvey Oswald
• 18:02
  Speaker 7: up on the sixth floor. You gotta work the bolt,
• 18:04
  Speaker 7: you know what I'm saying, and it and then after
• 18:08
  Speaker 7: when you work that little bolt, it re chambers another round,
• 18:11
  Speaker 7: but it also kicks the other one out right up
• 18:14
  Speaker 7: top there where you can catch it. But anyway, I
• 18:18
  Speaker 7: just thought that was interesting.
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: No, very and you have to think, like what is
• 18:23
  Speaker 6: going on here, and my initial thought and slash guess
• 18:29
  Speaker 6: is that it's some type of this might sound be conspiratorial,
• 18:34
  Speaker 6: corporate hit, right, I don't think it was a deep
• 18:38
  Speaker 6: state thing per se. It might have been an internal beef.
• 18:43
  Speaker 7: I don't know.
• 18:45
  Speaker 6: The guy definitely looked.
• 18:48
  Speaker 7: What may have been an internal beef where you know,
• 18:50
  Speaker 7: somebody who's mom they let die from something that they
• 18:53
  Speaker 7: wouldn't cover.
• 18:55
  Speaker 6: I mean that, yeah, that's the uh, that's the likely explanation,
• 19:02
  Speaker 6: which is why I don't really.
• 19:06
  Speaker 7: I don't know.
• 19:07
  Speaker 6: It seems a lot to do that, but you never know,
• 19:11
  Speaker 6: it is very possible, very possible in these days.
• 19:14
  Speaker 7: Right, if you lose somebody that you really really love
• 19:17
  Speaker 7: and you think you don't have anything else to live for.
• 19:20
  Speaker 7: I mean, for sure, crazier things have happened, you know.
• 19:23
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, but uh.
• 19:27
  Speaker 7: My screen is not sharing it anymore, right, it is
• 19:29
  Speaker 7: not okay? All right, So let's get into this because
• 19:33
  Speaker 7: I'm sure we're going to be here for a little while, Joe,
• 19:38
  Speaker 7: So let's get right into it, all right. So, like
• 19:41
  Speaker 7: I said, we covered Laurence Howard and Felipe Video Santiago
• 19:45
  Speaker 7: last week. This week is gonna be Lauren Hall and
• 19:48
  Speaker 7: Roy Hargraves, and we're gonna kick it off with Lauren Hall.
• 19:53
  Speaker 7: Now I'm gonna be reading you something here from a
• 19:56
  Speaker 7: summary a background being on lawy oign Eugene Hall, prepared
• 20:01
  Speaker 7: by the Assassination in Fishing Bureau on June seventh, nineteen
• 20:05
  Speaker 7: seventy seven. Okay, So, Lauren Eugene Hall aka Skip aka
• 20:15
  Speaker 7: Lorenzo Picio was born on January the fourth, nineteen thirty
• 20:20
  Speaker 7: in Kansas. His criminal record includes an arrest for writing
• 20:23
  Speaker 7: bad checks in fifty six, being jailed in fifty nine
• 20:28
  Speaker 7: by the Cuban government for quote plotting revolutionary activities, and
• 20:33
  Speaker 7: arrest in sixty one again in Wichita, this time shoplifting,
• 20:39
  Speaker 7: and an arrest on October sixteenth, nineteen sixty three, in Dallas,
• 20:43
  Speaker 7: Texas for possession of dangerous drugs. His Soldier of Fortune
• 20:49
  Speaker 7: days Hall was a mercenary slash soldier of Fortune who
• 20:53
  Speaker 7: in the late fifties fought as a captain in Castro's
• 20:56
  Speaker 7: revolutionary army. And this is from an artising The New
• 21:00
  Speaker 7: York Times April twenty second, nineteen fifty nine. Note Hall
• 21:04
  Speaker 7: served in Castro's army. The twenty sixth of July movement
• 21:07
  Speaker 7: under Camo Sian Fuegos, who later got haul out of
• 21:11
  Speaker 7: jail in July of nineteen fifty nine after being in
• 21:15
  Speaker 7: there for six months. By nineteen fifty nine, Hall turned
• 21:20
  Speaker 7: against Castro and became involved in a scheme to overthrow
• 21:23
  Speaker 7: Nicer Roguan dictator Somosa. This attempted armed expedition was apparently
• 21:29
  Speaker 7: designed to make it appear that Castro was exporting his
• 21:33
  Speaker 7: revolution to other countries and thus provoked Castro's downfall. The
• 21:38
  Speaker 7: plot was ultimately stopped by the Cubans and many of
• 21:41
  Speaker 7: the principles were jailed, including Lauren Hall and John Wilson Hudson.
• 21:47
  Speaker 7: Others involved in this notable names Joe Colonel Gomez, whoever
• 21:54
  Speaker 7: that is, Leslie Norman Bradley who name his name might
• 22:01
  Speaker 7: sound familiar, and three other scaffuzes who nobody's ever heard
• 22:05
  Speaker 7: of before Thareams.
• 22:07
  Speaker 6: Well, I know John Hudson was the quote British journalist that.
• 22:14
  Speaker 7: I believe already mentioned him.
• 22:17
  Speaker 6: No, I know, I'm saying he was doing some reporting.
• 22:22
  Speaker 6: I think it was Argentina and he ended up in Trescornia,
• 22:27
  Speaker 6: of course, with Lauren Hall and central Trafficante and the
• 22:34
  Speaker 6: HSCA looked into that a lot, so I just want
• 22:38
  Speaker 6: to add that contact.
• 22:39
  Speaker 7: Sir, thank you. Also in prison at this time was
• 22:42
  Speaker 7: Santos Trafficante Junior, and on July eighth, nineteen fifty nine,
• 22:46
  Speaker 7: Castro deported three Americans, Trafficante Hall and Henry Savardra, a
• 22:54
  Speaker 7: former employee of the Capri Hotel in Havana, which was
• 22:59
  Speaker 7: reportedly run by syndicate aka mafia, including traffic Conte and
• 23:05
  Speaker 7: Charlie the Blade Turin recently subpoenaed by the Dade County,
• 23:10
  Speaker 7: Florida authorities, now recently being nineteen seventy seven when this
• 23:14
  Speaker 7: report was written, investigating the murder of Johnny Roselli, which
• 23:19
  Speaker 7: had apparently just taken place back in seventy six or
• 23:22
  Speaker 7: seventy seven. So a potential area of importance is the
• 23:27
  Speaker 7: relationship between Lauren Hall and traffic Conte from their deportation
• 23:30
  Speaker 7: in fifty nine until nineteen sixty three. In nineteen sixty one,
• 23:35
  Speaker 7: Hall moved to California, where he set up his personal
• 23:38
  Speaker 7: base of operations for his anti Castro activities. However, in
• 23:42
  Speaker 7: sixty two and sixty three he was associated with elements
• 23:45
  Speaker 7: of the No Name Key group of Cia agents excuse
• 23:48
  Speaker 7: me an anti Castro guerrilla is in southern Florida. Santo's
• 23:53
  Speaker 7: traffic Conte was asked about this group in March before
• 23:55
  Speaker 7: the House Select Committee. It is known that traffic Conte
• 23:59
  Speaker 7: made contacts with some of the No Name Key Group
• 24:01
  Speaker 7: members and may have funded some of its operations. Twice
• 24:08
  Speaker 7: during the fall of sixty three, Hall visited Dallas, first
• 24:11
  Speaker 7: to raise funds for the extremist exile organizations, reportedly for
• 24:14
  Speaker 7: Frank Sturgis's International Anti Communist Brigade. This comes from William
• 24:21
  Speaker 7: Turner Power on the Right, Berkeley Press, seventy one, page
• 24:24
  Speaker 7: one oh six, and a second time with a trailer
• 24:26
  Speaker 7: full of arms for Cuban exiles in Miami, commissioned Document
• 24:34
  Speaker 7: one point five five three point nine. Leicester Log meeting.
• 24:39
  Speaker 7: Hall acknowledged in a nineteen sixty eight interview that Harold Wiseberg,
• 24:43
  Speaker 7: or with Harold Wiseburg sorry that he had been in
• 24:47
  Speaker 7: Lester Log's Dallas offices on October seventeenth, sixty three, with
• 24:50
  Speaker 7: an offer of fifty thousand dollars was made to shoot
• 24:53
  Speaker 7: President Kennedy. He told Wiseberg that he didn't think Log
• 24:56
  Speaker 7: would have been for it. Later, he adds in anyway, hey,
• 25:00
  Speaker 7: I say this Lester Logue had nothing to do with
• 25:03
  Speaker 7: it in brackets JFK's death from the Weisberg Interview, page
• 25:08
  Speaker 7: fifty seven. In a September the First nineteen sixty eight
• 25:14
  Speaker 7: National Inquirer article, Hall does not name log but states
• 25:19
  Speaker 7: that quote radical right wingers, including ex military offers, had
• 25:23
  Speaker 7: made officers sorry had made the offer. This is in
• 25:29
  Speaker 7: sharp contrast to hall statements on December twenty ninth, nineteen
• 25:32
  Speaker 7: sixty seven, in a Channel seven eleven o'clock news program
• 25:37
  Speaker 7: in Los Angeles, when he told a reporter that quote
• 25:40
  Speaker 7: liberals had a hand in killing JFK because Kennedy was
• 25:43
  Speaker 7: moving towards the center. In the Inquirer piece, Hall said
• 25:47
  Speaker 7: that he was in Dallas to quote discuss funds and
• 25:50
  Speaker 7: pick up supplies for his group Le Sombra, which was
• 25:54
  Speaker 7: formed to host raids from Florida to Cuba, as well
• 25:56
  Speaker 7: as smuggle arms and ammunition to gorilla groups. On October sixteenth,
• 26:01
  Speaker 7: nineteen sixty three, Hall was stopped in his car in Dallas,
• 26:04
  Speaker 7: allegedly for having concealed license plate, and was subsequently booked
• 26:09
  Speaker 7: for possession of dangerous drugs, which were uppers found in
• 26:12
  Speaker 7: the glove compartment. All maintains that it was a fake
• 26:17
  Speaker 7: charge designed to place on the record his presence in Dallas,
• 26:21
  Speaker 7: which would of course later on become just a little
• 26:24
  Speaker 7: important because also on October the sixteen, nineteen sixty three,
• 26:29
  Speaker 7: sixty three, that would be the first day that Lee
• 26:31
  Speaker 7: Harvey Oswald started at the Texas school Book Depository, which
• 26:37
  Speaker 7: is interesting Arabit allegations that lester Log put up the
• 26:42
  Speaker 7: five thousand dollars bond to get a haul out of
• 26:45
  Speaker 7: jail the following day. Now, Joe money man, how much
• 26:49
  Speaker 7: is one thousand dollars in sixty three money?
• 26:52
  Speaker 6: Easy math? Fifty grand a little more technically, that's it. Yeah,
• 27:00
  Speaker 6: times ten? Oh, okay, so I mean because of increased
• 27:07
  Speaker 6: recent inflation, it could be more, but the easy math
• 27:11
  Speaker 6: is times ten from nineteen sixty three money. It will
• 27:14
  Speaker 6: not be one hundred percent accurate. It will be really
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: close roughly.
• 27:18
  Speaker 7: Yeah, yes, yeah, So I mean that's not a that's
• 27:21
  Speaker 7: not a that's not really a amount of money to
• 27:27
  Speaker 7: sneeze at. Really fifty hanging that's how much they were
• 27:31
  Speaker 7: going to put up for Kennedy's execution. Also, the same
• 27:35
  Speaker 7: amount that he put up to apparently get Lester log
• 27:39
  Speaker 7: out of jail. Now, if we're talking to fifty thousand
• 27:41
  Speaker 7: dollars and sixty three money, how much is that times ten?
• 27:46
  Speaker 7: Half a million in today's money?
• 27:53
  Speaker 6: Fifty thousand, yeah, yeah, it would be half a mil today, yes, okay,
• 28:05
  Speaker 6: And again that is the quick math. But you could
• 28:07
  Speaker 6: even go to Google and do the calculations yourself, but
• 28:10
  Speaker 6: it is roughly ten times.
• 28:14
  Speaker 7: Now. The next part is where Hall kind of comes
• 28:17
  Speaker 7: on everybody's radar, and that's the Silvia Odio affair, right,
• 28:22
  Speaker 7: because this was in the Warren Commission report. So, Missus
• 28:26
  Speaker 7: Silvia Odio born in Havana in nineteen and thirty seven
• 28:30
  Speaker 7: was a well educated member of the Cuban upper crust JOE.
• 28:36
  Speaker 7: In nineteen sixty she fled Cuba to the US. According
• 28:39
  Speaker 7: to the Warren Commission, it appears that both her parents
• 28:41
  Speaker 7: are political prisoners of the Castro regime. Missus Odio is
• 28:45
  Speaker 7: a member of the Cuban Revolutionary Junta or JURY, an
• 28:49
  Speaker 7: anti Castro organization. It had been reported that in late
• 28:54
  Speaker 7: September of sixty three, two Cubans or Mexicans and one
• 28:58
  Speaker 7: American believed to be Lee Harvey Oswald visited the Dallas
• 29:02
  Speaker 7: home of Sylvie Odio and checking out this story, the
• 29:05
  Speaker 7: FBI interviewed Hall on September sixteenth, nineteen sixty four. At
• 29:10
  Speaker 7: that time, Hall reportedly told the FBI that he had
• 29:13
  Speaker 7: been accompanied at missus Odio's by Lawrence Howard and William Seymour,
• 29:18
  Speaker 7: who apparently had a resemblance to Oswald. However, four days later,
• 29:23
  Speaker 7: on September twentieth, Hall retracted his earlier statement after Lawrence
• 29:27
  Speaker 7: Howard threatened to cut off his balls and feed him
• 29:30
  Speaker 7: to him. I made that last part of it.
• 29:34
  Speaker 6: It probably isn't inaccurate.
• 29:36
  Speaker 7: Though probably not far from the truth. But four days
• 29:41
  Speaker 7: later Hall retracted his earlier statement and said that he
• 29:45
  Speaker 7: was accompanied by Seymour and Howard and Dallas on separate occasions,
• 29:48
  Speaker 7: and had no specific recolleation recollection of ever having visited
• 29:52
  Speaker 7: missus Odio. Subsequently, on October the first, missus Odio was
• 29:58
  Speaker 7: interviewed about the incident and shown photographs of Hall, Howard,
• 30:02
  Speaker 7: and Seymour, and she could not identify any of them
• 30:05
  Speaker 7: as having been among the three men who visited her home.
• 30:11
  Speaker 7: It is important to note that the FBI transmitted the
• 30:14
  Speaker 7: contents of the September sixteenth interview with Hall to the
• 30:17
  Speaker 7: Warren Commission after it had already received a retraction from
• 30:21
  Speaker 7: Hall September the twentieth. So despite Hall going back on
• 30:25
  Speaker 7: what he said, the Warren Commission said, I we're not
• 30:30
  Speaker 7: using that. We're gonna go with his original story because
• 30:38
  Speaker 7: if you all remember, Lee Harvey Oswell was supposed to
• 30:43
  Speaker 7: be on his way to Mexico at this time, so
• 30:46
  Speaker 7: they really couldn't have him showing up at Sylvia Odio's house,
• 30:53
  Speaker 7: so it was perfect for them to of course ipuse
• 30:58
  Speaker 7: skate who those three people were. It cannot be Lee
• 31:01
  Speaker 7: Harvey Oswald. He cannot be one of the people. So
• 31:05
  Speaker 7: certainly you have three numb nutfall guys Hall, Hired and
• 31:11
  Speaker 7: Seymour who basically take the blame for going to Odios
• 31:19
  Speaker 7: in the eyes of the Warrant Commission, and Lee Harvey
• 31:21
  Speaker 7: Oswald can still be on his way to Mexico. Let's see.
• 31:32
  Speaker 7: Next up is the rifle incident. Now, if you listen
• 31:34
  Speaker 7: to this show and the Dallas Action and quick Hits before,
• 31:38
  Speaker 7: you've all heard about this rifle incident, which comes from
• 31:41
  Speaker 7: the Wattley Report, which is part of Commission document eleven
• 31:45
  Speaker 7: seventy nine, from pages two ninety five and two ninety eight.
• 31:49
  Speaker 7: It relates how Lauren Hall redeemed a rifle that he
• 31:52
  Speaker 7: had pawned in Los Angeles with a check issued by
• 31:56
  Speaker 7: the American Committee to Free Cuba referred to as the
• 32:00
  Speaker 7: Community to Free Cuba, and the report the American Committee
• 32:03
  Speaker 7: to Free Cuba is a Los Angeles group close to
• 32:06
  Speaker 7: the Christian anti communist crusade of radio preacher and known
• 32:10
  Speaker 7: cohort of General Edwin Walker Won Billy James Hargas Folks.
• 32:19
  Speaker 7: And this comes from Robert sam Ansin's They've Killed the
• 32:21
  Speaker 7: President book nineteen seventy five, page one nine. The FBI's
• 32:27
  Speaker 7: response to and reporting of this incident is most peculiar
• 32:30
  Speaker 7: because the Wattley Report relates how Dick Wattley, an anti
• 32:35
  Speaker 7: Castro gorilla trainer, sent Lauren Hall and Jerry Hemming to
• 32:39
  Speaker 7: see Richard Hathcock, referred to in this report as Halfcock,
• 32:44
  Speaker 7: in early sixty three. Wattley had known Halfcock for several years.
• 32:48
  Speaker 7: Hathcock was a private detective whose company was the Allied
• 32:52
  Speaker 7: International Detective Agency of Los Angeles. His partner at this
• 32:56
  Speaker 7: firm at this time was Roy Barton, Payne, Hall and Hemming,
• 33:02
  Speaker 7: who stated that they were broke, had come to pawn
• 33:05
  Speaker 7: a set of golf clubs and a thirty six semi
• 33:08
  Speaker 7: automatic rifle with wait Bush variable powered scope.
• 33:13
  Speaker 6: Yes, his middle name was Martin.
• 33:18
  Speaker 7: Barton.
• 33:19
  Speaker 6: Oh okay, sorry, sorry Martin. You know I'm always looking
• 33:23
  Speaker 6: off for that. I apologizir.
• 33:25
  Speaker 7: Half Cock loan than fifty dollars on each item. Then,
• 33:28
  Speaker 7: on September eighteenth, nineteen sixty three, Hall returned with a
• 33:32
  Speaker 7: check from the ACFC and retrieved the rifle. Commissioned Documented
• 33:36
  Speaker 7: eleven seventy nine, notes that Hall came in and got
• 33:39
  Speaker 7: a quote, high powered rifle which looked identical to the
• 33:42
  Speaker 7: one shown on television on November twenty third, nineteen sixty three,
• 33:46
  Speaker 7: is being used in the assassination of President Kennedy. End quote.
• 33:52
  Speaker 7: Thank you, Greg, appreciate it. Thank you, my friend, you rock.
• 33:59
  Speaker 7: Thank you throw that up there since Joff slacking, Yeah.
• 34:04
  Speaker 6: I have something on the other screen. I'm sorry, thank you, sir.
• 34:10
  Speaker 7: Shortly after September eighteenth, Heming called Halfcock from Florida. Now
• 34:17
  Speaker 7: this is despite pawning the rifle nine months before this,
• 34:22
  Speaker 7: but all of a sudden, as soon as Hall picks
• 34:23
  Speaker 7: up the rifle Hemming's on the phone of Halfcock and
• 34:27
  Speaker 7: asking about it for some reason. When told Halfcock had
• 34:31
  Speaker 7: given it, the Heming became pissed.
• 34:34
  Speaker 6: What could he have called him? Could he have called
• 34:37
  Speaker 6: Hemming to let him know?
• 34:39
  Speaker 7: Says very clearly, Heming called Halfcock.
• 34:42
  Speaker 6: Okay, sorry.
• 34:43
  Speaker 7: Yeah. To further document this part of the incident, there
• 34:47
  Speaker 7: exists a Miami Police intelligence report dated November one, nineteen
• 34:51
  Speaker 7: sixty three, which reports an allegation from Hemming, the subject
• 34:55
  Speaker 7: of this report, that Lauren Hall stole two of his
• 34:57
  Speaker 7: rifles from his Miami apartment on October We're thirty first,
• 35:00
  Speaker 7: nineteen sixty three. In addition, Hemming's allegedly alleged that recently
• 35:06
  Speaker 7: in California, Hall had also stolen a Johnson thirty eight
• 35:10
  Speaker 7: to sixth that Heming had had in Hack. In his
• 35:14
  Speaker 7: sixty eight interview with Wiseberg, Hall referred to the rifle matter.
• 35:18
  Speaker 7: He says, quote, I do know that Jerry was pissed
• 35:21
  Speaker 7: at me because I took his Johnson with a telescopic sight,
• 35:24
  Speaker 7: that he had threatened to come down and shoot me
• 35:26
  Speaker 7: in all this jazz. The last pit paragraph of the
• 35:31
  Speaker 7: Wattley report states no further investigation was conducted as it
• 35:34
  Speaker 7: is obvious that the rifle mentioned above was not used
• 35:37
  Speaker 7: in connection with the assassination of President Kennedy. End quote.
• 35:43
  Speaker 7: It is not clear why the FBI suddenly dropped this
• 35:45
  Speaker 7: pawn rifle so quickly after checking it out on November
• 35:49
  Speaker 7: the twenty third, nineteen sixty three, and reported it to
• 35:52
  Speaker 7: the Warren Commission inadequately and only after a long delay.
• 35:56
  Speaker 7: This quote Wattley report is buried in a large Commission
• 36:00
  Speaker 7: document full of miscellaneous allegations, and its title referring to
• 36:04
  Speaker 7: Dick Whatley, has little to do with the actual story
• 36:08
  Speaker 7: of the rifle, which is true. So with that being said,
• 36:17
  Speaker 7: there's a lot to be said about all. Now I
• 36:25
  Speaker 7: have here a copy of the FBI document. Okay, so
• 36:35
  Speaker 7: this is two Special Agent in Charge Los Angeles from
• 36:40
  Speaker 7: Special Agent Jerome Crow, date November twenty third, nineteen sixty three,
• 36:45
  Speaker 7: subject Assassination of President Kennedy r E. Memo of Robert H.
• 36:49
  Speaker 7: Matheson Junior, dated November twenty third, nineteen sixty three. Richard Hathcock,
• 36:55
  Speaker 7: Allied International Detectives, Sweet three ten, Hollywood Boulevard, Los Angeles. Advice.
• 37:01
  Speaker 7: Roy Payne is his associate in the above enterprise. Half
• 37:06
  Speaker 7: Cock advised as follows. He Hathcock has known one Dick
• 37:10
  Speaker 7: Watley for several years. Watley, to the best of Hathcock's info,
• 37:14
  Speaker 7: currently resides in Florida. Watley is a male white man.
• 37:21
  Speaker 7: Prior to Hathcock's present occupation, he was a proprietor of
• 37:24
  Speaker 7: Adventurers Corner, a shop at the corner of Sunset and
• 37:27
  Speaker 7: Librea which sold articles from all over the world, including
• 37:30
  Speaker 7: a Tarzan outfit from Africa.
• 37:35
  Speaker 6: Af of Librea, Sir.
• 37:39
  Speaker 7: The old Taie Pits.
• 37:41
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 37:42
  Speaker 7: Shortly after the Bay of Pigs invasion in Cuba, Wattley,
• 37:45
  Speaker 7: who half Cock had not seen for some time, came
• 37:48
  Speaker 7: into the Adventure's Corner wearing only a and gave Hathcock
• 37:55
  Speaker 7: a shoulder patch that had a skull and crossbones on it,
• 37:58
  Speaker 7: plus the words God the International Joe.
• 38:04
  Speaker 6: Okay, uh, skull and crossbones?
• 38:07
  Speaker 7: Is that that means pirates ship?
• 38:10
  Speaker 6: Apparently, what's the yell thing? Skull and bones? Yeah, George Bush?
• 38:15
  Speaker 7: Yeah, you know? Could also mean death from above, you know.
• 38:19
  Speaker 6: Yes. He also was in Dealey Plaza, one of the bushes.
• 38:24
  Speaker 6: I am joking, of course.
• 38:29
  Speaker 7: Watley told Hathcock that he had been in Guatemala instructing
• 38:32
  Speaker 7: croops troops down there, and then he had pulled out
• 38:35
  Speaker 7: a week or two prior to the Bay of Pigs
• 38:37
  Speaker 7: invasion and blah blah blah. So let's get to the
• 38:42
  Speaker 7: good juicy ship here. Yeah, one year ago, Jerry Patrick's
• 38:52
  Speaker 7: true named Jerry Hemming Skip Haul. You know, they pawned
• 38:57
  Speaker 7: some uh golf clubs and this rifle. Yeah, Halfcock, London,
• 39:05
  Speaker 7: one hundred dollars fifty on each item, and it was
• 39:08
  Speaker 7: his understanding that they were to pick up the articles
• 39:11
  Speaker 7: as soon as possible. Hall apparently never did pick up
• 39:16
  Speaker 7: the golf clubs, and if I there for nine months
• 39:26
  Speaker 7: before Hall, Hathcock only saw Jerry Pack once after that,
• 39:35
  Speaker 7: and that was approximately one week later when he came
• 39:37
  Speaker 7: to his office. Several months ago. Since the men did
• 39:41
  Speaker 7: not retrieve the articles, Hathcock sold the golf clubs and
• 39:44
  Speaker 7: on September eighteenth, when Hall came in with fifty bucks
• 39:47
  Speaker 7: and retrieved the rifle. Shortly thereafter, Hathcock received a telephone
• 39:50
  Speaker 7: call from Hemming, who had been residing in Florida, inquiring
• 39:56
  Speaker 7: as to whether Hascock still had the rifle. So On
• 39:59
  Speaker 7: the day Hall retreved the rifle, he sold them a
• 40:02
  Speaker 7: Bolex motion picture camera with telephoto lens, which was then
• 40:06
  Speaker 7: the property of Hascock, all paid by two checks. And
• 40:10
  Speaker 7: we talked about this in the previous show. That camera
• 40:13
  Speaker 7: cost him four hundred dollars, then four thousand dollars. Now,
• 40:17
  Speaker 7: so this was a motion picture Bowlex sixteen millimeters camera.
• 40:22
  Speaker 7: It wasn't a piece of shit, you know, wasn't a
• 40:25
  Speaker 7: disposable family cam type deal. I mean, this was like
• 40:29
  Speaker 7: professional grade. So the question that I've always thought of
• 40:36
  Speaker 7: Joe is why are they the day after the assassination
• 40:45
  Speaker 7: going to Los Angeles and inquiring at this place about
• 40:51
  Speaker 7: this rifle? Okay, well it's apparently because they found some
• 40:56
  Speaker 7: fingerprints on the rifle. Okay, Yeah, so let's skip over here, because.
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I believe they stopped by on the Saturday, which
• 41:14
  Speaker 6: would have been the twenty third, and inquired about the rifle.
• 41:19
  Speaker 6: And of course you have to wonder why they would
• 41:23
  Speaker 6: be inquiring about the rifle and inquiring about Paine's fingerprints
• 41:31
  Speaker 6: if they didn't have the rifle in possession, right, And
• 41:35
  Speaker 6: I am not the first person to bring that up, but.
• 41:38
  Speaker 7: Yeah, so in nineteen seventy seven for the House Select
• 41:41
  Speaker 7: Committee on Assassinations. Halfcock was interviewed, right, and this is
• 41:46
  Speaker 7: what he said. Let's see, he told me he had
• 41:52
  Speaker 7: never Jerry Patrick told me later that that was a
• 41:57
  Speaker 7: damn lie that he had talked to Hall and as
• 41:59
  Speaker 7: far as he could find out, that was a lie
• 42:01
  Speaker 7: about where the rifle was. But he told me he
• 42:05
  Speaker 7: had never recovered the rifle. The rifle was in my
• 42:08
  Speaker 7: office all those weeks, and one of the gentlemen who
• 42:12
  Speaker 7: worked with me in the detective business, Roy Payne, who
• 42:15
  Speaker 7: was a gun expert and gun nut, assembled and disassembled
• 42:19
  Speaker 7: and reassembled that rifle on numerous occasions. And I'm sure
• 42:24
  Speaker 7: mister Payne can tell you a great deal more about
• 42:26
  Speaker 7: that rifle than I can. The day after John Kennedy
• 42:30
  Speaker 7: was killed in Dallas, I received a phone call from
• 42:32
  Speaker 7: FBI agent Jerry Crow here in Los Angeles, who asked
• 42:36
  Speaker 7: me if I had an agent working for me named
• 42:38
  Speaker 7: Roy Payne, and I said yes. Jerry wanted to know
• 42:41
  Speaker 7: if he could come by the office and see me
• 42:43
  Speaker 7: in mister Payne, and we arranged for that meeting. Now,
• 42:46
  Speaker 7: it's my opinion of the reason he wanted to see
• 42:48
  Speaker 7: mister Payne was because mister Payne's fingerprints were undoubtedly all
• 42:52
  Speaker 7: over that rifle from his having handled it so many times.
• 42:57
  Speaker 7: It's also my opinion then, in less that particular rifle
• 43:00
  Speaker 7: can be found or in some way involved in the
• 43:02
  Speaker 7: whole thing, that the FBI would have no interest in it.
• 43:06
  Speaker 7: My name is Lee Roy Barton Payne. I have heard
• 43:10
  Speaker 7: and I've listened to mister Hascock make his statement, and
• 43:13
  Speaker 7: I agree with him in every aspect of his statement.
• 43:16
  Speaker 7: And I will, to the best of my recollection, count
• 43:18
  Speaker 7: my experiences with Patrick and Hall. They were here on
• 43:22
  Speaker 7: a speaking and fundraising campaign for going back to Cuba,
• 43:26
  Speaker 7: and as I remember, they were out gathering various types
• 43:30
  Speaker 7: of military accouterments, weapons, medicines. How they obtained these weapons
• 43:35
  Speaker 7: was not part of the information given to mental Hascock
• 43:38
  Speaker 7: or myself. Lauren Hall did tell me that he had
• 43:41
  Speaker 7: his closet in his apartment full of weapons, and then
• 43:44
  Speaker 7: he was afraid the FBI was going to come in
• 43:46
  Speaker 7: there and raid the place and take him along, and
• 43:49
  Speaker 7: they were going to have to smuggle him out, and
• 43:52
  Speaker 7: they were getting ready to go back to Cuba. He
• 43:54
  Speaker 7: drew as a map of an inlet on the shore
• 43:57
  Speaker 7: south of Havana, blah blah blah, and this that and
• 44:01
  Speaker 7: the other. So on November twenty third, nineteen sixty three,
• 44:07
  Speaker 7: Special rating Crowe interviewed Pain. Now we're going back to
• 44:12
  Speaker 7: sixty three. He says, mister Crow came in. I opened
• 44:17
  Speaker 7: the door for him, and he showed me his id uh.
• 44:22
  Speaker 7: He put his bundle down one of the large men
• 44:23
  Speaker 7: in a line. But he took some papers out and said,
• 44:25
  Speaker 7: I would like to ask some questions about Skip pul
• 44:27
  Speaker 7: and Roy Pain. And I said, well, I'm Roy Paine,
• 44:32
  Speaker 7: so you can ask me whatever you want to ask.
• 44:34
  Speaker 7: He seemed rather surprised that I was there, and at
• 44:37
  Speaker 7: least that was the impression I got. Now that right
• 44:42
  Speaker 7: there tells me all I need to know, Joe about
• 44:45
  Speaker 7: why the FBI was knocking on Halfcock's door the day
• 44:50
  Speaker 7: after the assassination looking for Roy Pain and Laura in
• 44:53
  Speaker 7: a hall, that their fingerprints were all over this rifle,
• 44:58
  Speaker 7: and that the rifle had been found somewhere and been
• 45:04
  Speaker 7: related to the Kennedy assassination somehow. We don't know how,
• 45:10
  Speaker 7: we don't know where, we don't know why, because this
• 45:14
  Speaker 7: rifle never did turn up again apparently. So it's probably
• 45:20
  Speaker 7: you know, it's probably buried in some FBI warehouse side
• 45:26
  Speaker 7: the Covenant somewhere, you know.
• 45:28
  Speaker 9: And uh uh yeah, no, that is the only logical
• 45:38
  Speaker 9: conclusion that you can make from that.
• 45:41
  Speaker 7: Yeah, so when you start to put two plus two together,
• 45:47
  Speaker 7: things start to add up a little bit, Joe, you
• 45:49
  Speaker 7: know what I'm saying. Yeah, And real quick, just to
• 45:55
  Speaker 7: show everybody, well we're talking about here, I'm going to
• 45:58
  Speaker 7: share my screen once again and we're going to take
• 46:01
  Speaker 7: a look at mister Lauren Hall. Now, mister Lauren Hall
• 46:07
  Speaker 7: can go from looking like this like a very well
• 46:11
  Speaker 7: to do businessman. This is we call this skip Hall's
• 46:15
  Speaker 7: dB Cooper era.
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: To this.
• 46:22
  Speaker 7: A very disheveled, tattooed, harry chested go tea wearing somebody
• 46:34
  Speaker 7: who's not afraid to point a rifle at somebody right now.
• 46:37
  Speaker 7: This is funny. And this comes from a Greg Wagner site,
• 46:40
  Speaker 7: Tango Down sixty three dot com, which I encourage everybody
• 46:43
  Speaker 7: to check out if you have an interest in this
• 46:45
  Speaker 7: kind of thing. So here's Hall's best impression at a pirate.
• 46:49
  Speaker 7: Apparently I don't know what he's doing there. He's got
• 46:52
  Speaker 7: a scabbard and a revolver. More gunplay, right, we see more.
• 47:00
  Speaker 6: Shirtless gun play.
• 47:02
  Speaker 7: Yeah, that's William Seymour that has his back to us.
• 47:08
  Speaker 7: That's hauling Maniagular's buddy. There's haul in his tidy whities. Easy,
• 47:15
  Speaker 7: tiny dancer, Easy, don't get too excited now, see you're
• 47:20
  Speaker 7: starting to get steamed up over there. Haul Maniagular again,
• 47:26
  Speaker 7: I miss, there's there's a better shot. Tidy whities just
• 47:36
  Speaker 7: for you, tiny, there you go, and his big giant
• 47:40
  Speaker 7: American eagle tattoo across his back. This is Lauren Hall. Folks,
• 47:49
  Speaker 7: didn't give two flying folks about nothing or nobody. Clearly
• 47:53
  Speaker 7: not averse to handling rifles, even possibly sleeping with one,
• 48:05
  Speaker 7: as we can see here using it as a pillow.
• 48:08
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, guys spuggling with that.
• 48:13
  Speaker 7: I mean, you can't make this stuff up, folks. There
• 48:16
  Speaker 7: he is, yeah, you know. And this is a This
• 48:20
  Speaker 7: is a even later picture, like from the seventies, bushy
• 48:24
  Speaker 7: headed lower and Hall with a grain mustache. We call
• 48:31
  Speaker 7: those the meth days. Here he is with hemming. Okay,
• 48:37
  Speaker 7: you know each other. Yeah, there's another picture of him.
• 48:46
  Speaker 7: There's a another one from the dB Cooper era. Skip Haul.
• 48:53
  Speaker 7: And then there's another one from the sixty two sixty
• 48:58
  Speaker 7: three era little Pop belly, lots of hair, lots of hair, Joe,
• 49:05
  Speaker 7: lots of hair, ching his stogie, no, no, no cares
• 49:10
  Speaker 7: in the world, just him and Maniagular hanging out, going boating,
• 49:17
  Speaker 7: badass right, And this is in the same picture. This
• 49:22
  Speaker 7: is him talking to Lawrence Howard, who has his back
• 49:24
  Speaker 7: to us. That was William Seymour on the right. An
• 49:28
  Speaker 7: unidentified smooth Latin boy standing beside Laurence Hall, possibly Postal
• 49:37
  Speaker 7: Lyon or whatever his name was.
• 49:39
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Paul Still he was a scuffuza and I think
• 49:47
  Speaker 6: he was. Some people said he was responsible for some
• 49:51
  Speaker 6: of the Oswaltz sightings. Apparently he had looked like him.
• 49:57
  Speaker 6: I'd heard that. I don't know.
• 49:59
  Speaker 7: But Jack asked an interesting question. If any of these
• 50:03
  Speaker 7: guys had anything to do with the assassination, would they
• 50:06
  Speaker 7: Why would they voluntarily talk to Wiseberg? Well, because it
• 50:12
  Speaker 7: would have looked pretty shady if they didn't. Wiseburg was
• 50:16
  Speaker 7: not averse to reaching out to anyone. He talked to
• 50:21
  Speaker 7: a lot of these kind of people also other people. Yeah,
• 50:30
  Speaker 7: and you know, back then, if you didn't say anything
• 50:33
  Speaker 7: to journalists or reporters, or you talk to researchers, you
• 50:39
  Speaker 7: were considered a little suspect. And again, I'm sure these
• 50:45
  Speaker 7: guys loved the attention. At least Lauren Hall did. Howard
• 50:50
  Speaker 7: not so much nor loved it. Yeah, well, because some
• 50:54
  Speaker 7: of these guys ate this shit up, and you know,
• 50:59
  Speaker 7: to them it was like they almost knew, Like, you know,
• 51:03
  Speaker 7: I can, I can, I can almost confess to doing
• 51:08
  Speaker 7: something or allude to doing something, but I'm not actually
• 51:11
  Speaker 7: admitted to doing something, and nobody can prove that I
• 51:14
  Speaker 7: did anything. So what's it really matter? You know at
• 51:19
  Speaker 7: this point? You know, yeah, it's kind of like a
• 51:23
  Speaker 7: serial killer claiming claiming victims that were committed by somebody else,
• 51:30
  Speaker 7: because that somebody else is not gonna come right out
• 51:32
  Speaker 7: and say, yeah, I'm the one to do that. But
• 51:36
  Speaker 7: you know, this guy who wants to brag and boast
• 51:38
  Speaker 7: about it, wants to claim more victims, you know, kind
• 51:40
  Speaker 7: of like the zodiac or whatever. Some people just do that.
• 51:45
  Speaker 7: I don't know, it's very it's very odd psychology and
• 51:50
  Speaker 7: quite above my pay grade. Joe.
• 51:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And as we'll get into hard Graves was trolling
• 51:58
  Speaker 6: Noel Twyaman and other people as well as was Hemming,
• 52:03
  Speaker 6: as was all these people. They were, you know, giving
• 52:08
  Speaker 6: some little threads of truth with mostly bullshit, and it's
• 52:14
  Speaker 6: extremely hard to figure out what they were saying, but
• 52:18
  Speaker 6: you're almost positive that they were messing with you in
• 52:21
  Speaker 6: some way.
• 52:24
  Speaker 7: Absolutely So, moving on a little bit. I came across
• 52:33
  Speaker 7: something interesting in nineteen seventy seven, Joe. And this is,
• 52:37
  Speaker 7: of course the same time, right about the same time
• 52:39
  Speaker 7: that you know he's talking to the HSCA and all
• 52:41
  Speaker 7: that jazz, which we'll get to, I promise. Apparently let's
• 52:53
  Speaker 7: see Lauren Hall's wife at time, and I'm trying to
• 53:03
  Speaker 7: find her name. Here we go, Joanne Hall, Judith Hall.
• 53:14
  Speaker 7: He had a couple of wives.
• 53:15
  Speaker 6: Joe, Okay, I have an article I'm gonna surprise you
• 53:20
  Speaker 6: with after Okay continues.
• 53:22
  Speaker 7: Yes, Robbie, glory Seekers, thank you, thank you. Perfect analogy,
• 53:30
  Speaker 7: So missus Judith Hall, Long Beach, California.
• 53:35
  Speaker 6: Hi.
• 53:35
  Speaker 7: Robbie wrote a letter to her senator, the Honorable Alan
• 53:41
  Speaker 7: Cranston new relation to Brian Dear Senator, maybe there is
• 53:48
  Speaker 7: as a registered Democrat that has supported you in the past.
• 53:51
  Speaker 7: I find that I must now call on you for help.
• 53:55
  Speaker 7: I am writing to you on behalf of my husband,
• 53:57
  Speaker 7: Lauren E. Hall, who has been having difficulty with several
• 54:01
  Speaker 7: federal governmental agencies recently. First, he applied for his d
• 54:06
  Speaker 7: D two fourteen a GI eligibility for a home loan
• 54:10
  Speaker 7: through a local mortgage company, but he was subsequently informed
• 54:15
  Speaker 7: that there had been a fire in the record center
• 54:17
  Speaker 7: in Saint Louis and that there was no record of
• 54:20
  Speaker 7: his military services. Now what do we do? And this
• 54:26
  Speaker 7: is true? There was a big fire in like the
• 54:28
  Speaker 7: army personnel records, you know, somewhere in like Middle America,
• 54:33
  Speaker 7: back in like the late sixties, early seventies, and a
• 54:35
  Speaker 7: lot of people's records were lost.
• 54:37
  Speaker 6: But yeah, not so.
• 54:39
  Speaker 7: Secondly, he sent a request to the FAA headquarters in
• 54:43
  Speaker 7: Oklahoma City for a duplicate copy of his pilot's license
• 54:47
  Speaker 7: and was told that they can find no record of that.
• 54:49
  Speaker 7: I really find that hard to believe. If you will
• 54:52
  Speaker 7: have your office contact us, I will be happy to
• 54:55
  Speaker 7: supply you with all the necessary details and any assistance
• 54:59
  Speaker 7: that you can provide be sincerely appreciated. Thanking you in
• 55:03
  Speaker 7: advance for your consideration and prompt attention to this matter.
• 55:06
  Speaker 7: Very truly yours, missus Jude Hall, right, so props to
• 55:16
  Speaker 7: props to Senator because they jumped on it pretty quick.
• 55:21
  Speaker 7: They immediately sent a memorandum to the Department of the
• 55:25
  Speaker 7: Navy Officer of the Assistant Sector or sorry, Department of
• 55:28
  Speaker 7: the Army Office of the Assistant Secretary for Captain D. E. Nelson,
• 55:34
  Speaker 7: USN Special Coordination Staff, requests for information blah blah blah
• 55:40
  Speaker 7: Lauren Hall. There was. Apparently the official military personnel records
• 55:44
  Speaker 7: mister Hall were destroyed in a fire at the National
• 55:48
  Speaker 7: Personal Records Center in nineteen seventy three. That center has
• 55:52
  Speaker 7: requested from the Veterans Administration Regional Office in Los Angeles
• 55:55
  Speaker 7: all available records pertaining to him that may be on file.
• 55:58
  Speaker 7: There is antipated any information available in that office will
• 56:02
  Speaker 7: be received in the next few days. Upon receipt, it
• 56:05
  Speaker 7: will be in hand carry to your office. Now what
• 56:09
  Speaker 7: I find interesting, Joe, is our boy, Lauren Hall's military service.
• 56:16
  Speaker 7: Are you ready for this?
• 56:18
  Speaker 10: Yes, sir, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Hold on, okay.
• 56:34
  Speaker 7: Lauren Hall join the Army his first day of service.
• 56:40
  Speaker 7: He entered the United States Army on January the seventh,
• 56:44
  Speaker 7: nineteen and forty seven.
• 56:46
  Speaker 6: Joe, Oh Wow, okay, good year, good year, good year.
• 56:51
  Speaker 7: Yep. He was released from the army three months later
• 56:58
  Speaker 7: on in April forty seven.
• 57:04
  Speaker 6: Did his mother have a candy jar fall on her head?
• 57:09
  Speaker 7: No? No, no, no, no no.
• 57:11
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 57:17
  Speaker 7: Let's just say on this report of separation that it
• 57:26
  Speaker 7: doesn't really give a good explanation as to why that's it.
• 57:36
  Speaker 7: There's no reason given unless it's unless it's whited out
• 57:40
  Speaker 7: on this, I don't know, but it's interesting. But from
• 57:49
  Speaker 7: the from June of forty eight until September of fifty two,
• 57:56
  Speaker 7: he was in the US Army Reserves, which basically there
• 58:04
  Speaker 7: wasn't wartime back to any what, he didn't serve anything
• 58:09
  Speaker 7: but for his three month enlistment in the US Army
• 58:14
  Speaker 7: thirty years prior. He's worried about using his benefits from
• 58:20
  Speaker 7: his short stint in the army to be eligible for
• 58:25
  Speaker 7: you know, home loan and whatever other government assistance that
• 58:28
  Speaker 7: he can get. I find that just a little odd.
• 58:36
  Speaker 6: Yeah, So.
• 58:41
  Speaker 7: Let's zip forward, shall we to the AHSCA.
• 58:44
  Speaker 6: Sure, I just want to address one thing, if you
• 58:48
  Speaker 6: don't mind, I'm sorry this is a little tangent and
• 58:51
  Speaker 6: shout out to Robbie here, and I'm just experimenting on
• 58:56
  Speaker 6: my new powers of being able to share things. But
• 58:58
  Speaker 6: Robbie has doing has done a couple of Jack the
• 59:01
  Speaker 6: Ripper episodes, and uh yeah, do something on Charles let Schmere,
• 59:09
  Speaker 6: the guy that found the first lady and lied about
• 59:13
  Speaker 6: his name. That is a very interesting one. So sorry
• 59:19
  Speaker 6: for that irrelevant tangent, but uh, I wanted to say
• 59:23
  Speaker 6: how to Robbie.
• 59:30
  Speaker 7: H save your tangents for your presentation, Sir, Okay Lauren E.
• 59:39
  Speaker 7: Hall Testimony of accompanied by Bryce and Mills Esquire of Wichita, Kansas.
• 59:49
  Speaker 7: Mister Hall, please state your name, Lauren E.
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: Hall?
• 59:55
  Speaker 7: Would you spell that? Please? L O R A N
• 59:58
  Speaker 7: H A L L. Would you state your edd just please? Rural?
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 7: There's another word I can't say very well. Rural Route five, Newton, Kansas. Sir,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 7: where were you on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three?
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 7: Like agency, don't even fuck around, like this is the
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 7: first question right out of the gate, bro tell your
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 7: name and where were you on November twenty second, nineteen
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 7: sixty three.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and Rob did he he did have immunity during this.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 7: Let me get there, I will get there, ruining the surprise.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 6: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, God damn.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 7: Okay, Hall says, I respectfully declined to answer under my
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 7: rights to the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution, and then
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 7: it may tend to incriminate me. Okay. That's Hall's answer
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 7: to where he was on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 7: to which they remind him, did he he has immunity? Okay?
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 6: So yes, which means he cannot be prosecuted for his answers.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 7: Correct, He cannot incriminate himself, okay for anything that he says.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 7: He could he could go in there and say, look,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 7: I was behind the grassy old fence. I shot that. Dude,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 7: it was me. You got me that. You stand up
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 7: and dance right out of that place. Now, he didn't
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 7: say that, but he could.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 6: Have, right. And also it like it makes you think
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 6: if you do have immunity, you could say those things
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 6: and kind of be protected if they were true, right,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 6: like kind of covering your ass kind of thing like.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 7: Now, later on in his HCA testimony, he did give
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 7: another answer to the question of where were you on
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 7: t he second, nineteen sixty three, to which he answered
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 7: that he was shaving in his apartment and he immediately
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 7: called this lady some random lady and said he you
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 7: have to call me back at my house to prove
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 7: that I'm here. Oh, mister Heming is in the house.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 7: What's up, sir? Everybody say hello, we're mentioning your father, sir,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 7: and a couple of these things.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 6: Yes, hello, miservefully.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 7: And so during Hall's testimony to the HSCA, he said
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 7: a lot of things. A lot of things were later
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 7: actually just proven. But we'll get there, I promise. Now.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 7: They were asking him about money that he'd possibly had
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 7: been paid by the CIA to him, okay, and this
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 7: is his answer. It was not given to me. It
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 7: was given to another person and we got part of it.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 7: They asked, who's that person? He says, Sam Gencanna, who
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 7: was the mob boss in Chicago. How much money were
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 7: talking about here? Hall says, I don't recall whether it
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 7: was twenty thousand or thirty thousand dollars? Okay. They asked, well,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 7: who gave the money this gen Conna? Hall says, I
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 7: don't know. I wasn't there when the money was transferred
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 7: from whoever to Sam Gencanna. And they say, where are
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 7: you telling us? Gen Conna said, here is the money
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 7: I got from the CIA. Here you go. Hall says, no,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 7: I'm not saying that. I'm saying I don't know where
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 7: the money came from. And they start to ask him
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 7: is there any other time, and Haul interrupts him and says, look,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 7: I'm trying to answer your questions as truthfully as I can.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 7: I don't know where that money came from. Is there
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 7: any other time that you know you've got money or
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 7: that you think you got money from the CIA? And
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 7: Hall says no, not that I know of. It could
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 7: well be, possibly be that I received money from the
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 7: CIA through a second party, but I don't know that
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 7: to be sure. Okay, yeah, Oh, another con man not
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 7: willing to put his butt on the line, but looking
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 7: for a payday. Quite possible. And we're talking about two
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 7: hundred and fifty k. All right, So further on in
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 7: the questioning a little bit they're asking him about He says,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 7: all right, they had to take a break it things
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 7: got hot and heated, and he says, I believe we
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 7: were discussing your phone call to a representative of the CIA. Again.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 7: I want to ask you what was your purpose in
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 7: phoning the CIA at that time to discuss the Garrison investigation?
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 7: So when he was a pointed by Garrison and he
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 7: was in California, Apparently Lauren Hall says that he called
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 7: the CIA to ask him if there's any reason that
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 7: he shouldn't go there, And apparently he did the same
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 7: thing to the with the FBI, his local FBI office,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 7: and their questioning like, well, how do you know who
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 7: to call in the CIA? And he says, look, they're
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 7: in the phone book. I picked up. I called the
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 7: number in the phone book, and I asked him, is
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 7: there any reason I shouldn't go to New Orleans?
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 6: Yeah? And Rob, from everything we know about Lauren Hall, right,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 6: do you think that he didn't have a contact and
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 6: that he would have to go to the phone book
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 6: to call some like random administrative office to say can
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 6: I go to Garrison? In my opinion, no, he had
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 6: someone a contact. He he called and that was that.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 7: But that was random dude sitting at the desk answering
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 7: the phone.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 6: Yeah, oh, Lauren Hall, you expecting your call?
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 7: Yeah, he was calling Angleton or anybody like that.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 7: So then he goes on to tell about it's time
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 7: to talk about the bad pigs training in Guatemala, the
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 7: biopoly raid. Uh, he says, I'm talking about Rip Robertson,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 7: where he says he worked for Rip Robertson and was
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 7: with him on one of the missions. And they asked him,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 7: was Robertson known to you to be a CI agent?
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 7: And Hall says, yeah, he was, And are you certain
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 7: about the name Robinson or Robertson And he said, well,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 7: it could have been Robinson, and you know, back and
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 7: forth and forth they said, Know this guy Robertson was
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 7: an alcoholic. He probably was over six feet, strictly military bearing.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 7: He was in his I would say late forties, early fifties,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 7: it's about it. Would that be nineteen Hollis's early sixty three.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 7: So yeah, that's interesting that he is going on a
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 7: mission with Rip Robertson in early sixty three.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 6: And Rip Robertson, I'm sorry, Rob was I believe one
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 6: of two people, one of two Americans I'm sorry to
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 6: have landed at the Bay of Pigs. I believe the
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 6: other was Gracedon Lynch. And he was notorious for going
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 6: on missions with his guys.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 7: Yes, at our.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 6: Lancer presentation and I'm sure a lot of people have
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 6: seen this. The Robertson photo alleged photo and Dale Plaza,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 6: so and that would be consistent with his character, so yeah, sorry.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 7: Yeah, But he goes on and mentions about seeing some
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 7: letter at Martino's house in Florida and Miami, and he says,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 7: mister Hall, have you ever been a paid employee of
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 7: the CIA? And he says, well, to the best of
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 7: my election, no, I was not. He said, I'll put
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 7: it this way, to my knowledge, I was never given
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 7: a dime of money by the CIA proper to me.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 7: But I have received money from groups and interested people
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 7: that could have been CIA money. I do not want
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 7: to get nailed for perjury, so I'm not going to
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 7: say anything that can get me for perjury. But I
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 7: have received money, but never knowingly from the CIA. And
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 7: they asked him was he ever a contract agent? He says, no.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 7: How would you describe your relationship with the CIA during
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 7: that period? He said, I had a friend who described
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 7: it for me, and it was described to me that
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 7: our job was as a jackal for the CIA. And
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 7: they going and ask him what that means to him,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 7: and blah blah blah. So hopefully a lot of people
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 7: here have seen the movie The Jackal or The Day
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 7: of the jackal. These are basically paid mercenary assassin type
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 7: people who do this kind of thing for a living
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 7: for money. You know, they're contracted or paid under the
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 7: table or whatever you want to call it, clandestinely, you know,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 7: money wired from here to there type of thing, no trace,
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 7: no trail, and they do the dirty work and they disappear.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah, maybe like the United Healthcare ASSASSM not that much different, right,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 6: So let's see.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 7: They're talking about the trips that he made to Dallas
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 7: in nineteen sixty three and who he talked to there.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 7: And what I found an interesting was that they asked him,
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 7: has he ever heard of Lee Harvey Oswald at that time?
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 7: And he said, I was with a fellow named Nico Cresby.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 7: He and his family lived in Dallas. I went to
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 7: pick I went to pick him up. As a recall,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 7: I was on a Sunday and I went to pick
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 7: up Nico and his mother told me him and another
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 7: fellow had already walked to town. I went up the
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 7: street and I've seen Nico and this other fellow, this
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 7: other Cuban, walking down the street and asked him where
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 7: they were going, and they started or they stated that
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 7: they were going downtown because a guy by the name
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 7: of Oswald was giving a procastro talk and they were
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 7: going to go up and raise hell with him. This
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 7: is in June of sixty three, when we know Oswald
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 7: is living and working in New Orleans. Yeah, at the
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 7: Rally Coffee Company allegedly. So unless there's some guy impersonating
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 7: Oswald in Dallas in June of sixty three doing pro
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 7: castro something, that's a little it's a little weird.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, it doesn't add up.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 7: They asked him, and they said, well, to the best
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 7: of your recollection, this was in June of sixty three,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 7: and he said it was somewhere in there. It had
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 7: to have been after April and before the middle of July,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 7: which is an interesting statement because April eleven, twelfth, I
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 7: believe he left Dallas to go to New Orleans after
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 7: the alleged General Walker shooting, and I believe the middle
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 7: of July is when he quit or was fired from
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 7: the Riley Coffee Company. So those dates just don't provide
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 7: for this person to actually be Oswald in any way,
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 7: shape or form. They asked him, was he employed in
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 7: November of sixty three, and he says, I don't believe
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 7: I was, sir. They say, what was your source of
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 7: income at the time, during the time of the assassination
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 7: of President Kennedy? And then they say, or, as your
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 7: answer states, for at least two or three weeks prior,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 7: he said, I would say, I think it was like
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 7: ten or twelve days prior to the assassination of Kennedy.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 7: And then when I was there, we just flew over
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 7: because I flew from Miami back to LA. Now, the
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 7: reason that that statement is important is because he allegedly
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 7: had no job at this time, no money, and money
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 7: was a very precious commodity to these guys back then.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 7: And for him to claim that he hopped on an
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 7: airplane and flew back to California after driving there makes
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 7: absolutely no sense whatsoever to a abandon your vehicle. But
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 7: what flying back from Miami to California does Joe is
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 7: it doesn't put him driving back through New Orleans, through Texas,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 7: through Dallas to get to California. Yeah, okay, a little
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 7: bit before the assassination, So Hall says, did you ever
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 7: tell anyone that you have or fifty witnesses to the
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 7: effect that you were in a hotel at Dallas at
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 7: the time of the assassination. He says, mister Triplet, I'm
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 7: trying to establish the fact that I was not in Dallas.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 7: I am sure as hell not going to tell somebody
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 7: that I have fifty witnesses they would put me there.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 7: So the answer is no, I clearly did not say that.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 7: And then they asked him, well, have you ever made
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 7: the statement to the effect of there are only two
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 7: of us left and that's me and Santo's traffic conte
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 7: and as far as I'm concerned, we are both going
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 7: to stay alive because I'm not going to say shit,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 7: have you ever made a statement to that effect, Triplet?
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 7: And now we're talking essentially about October sixty three? Well,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 7: and well, then they say, he says, yes, sir, you
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 7: have the transcript, So yes, I did say that, which
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 7: was referring to the aj Weberman phone call interview.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 6: Right, so Haul saying he did say that.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 7: Yeah, he didn't know that because they had they had
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 7: the tape.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 6: Right, and we played it like a month or two ago.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 7: Yes, let's see. So now they're asking about October sixty three,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 7: and they asking about that damn rifle again. So this
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 7: is what Hall has to say about the thirty Johnson
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 7: thirty odd six Triplett asked him. And then you returned
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 7: to Dallas and picked up the trailer with the Johnson
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 7: thirty odd six rifle. Hall says, yes. And where'd you
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 7: take it from there? Hall says, he took it to Miami, Florida,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 7: specifically to a doctor Crockett's house, a dentist. And what
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 7: was your purpose in taking it to doctor Crockett's, He said,
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 7: We stashed all our supplies at a safe house. Triplet says,
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 7: I see, And do you know how long the rifle
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 7: remained at Crockett's house until sometime in November or December.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 7: Almost positive Crockett gave the rifle back to Jerry Patrick Hemming,
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 7: either shortly prior to the assassination of Kennedy or shortly thereafter.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 7: This is the same rifle that the FBI was asking
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 7: about in l A and looking for Lauren Hall and
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 7: Roy Payne or leave Roy Payne, whatever you want to
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 7: call them, because obviously their fingerprints have been found on
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 7: this rifle somewhere, somehow, some way, so they ask him.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 7: So you don't know then the exact whereabouts of that
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 7: rifle on the date of the assassination, and Hall says no,
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 7: so and I believe and correct me, correct me if
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 7: I'm wrong. Ah that that Heaving said that he never
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 7: got the rifle back. I could be wrong, but I
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 7: thought I remember reading that somewhere.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I believe you are right on this.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 7: Well, the expert is here, so he will correct this
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 7: if we are wrong.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 6: Sounds good, be sweet.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 7: If he did get it back and then like handed
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 7: it down, you know what I'm saying.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 6: M Yeah, I don't think it left. I mean, we
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 6: don't know where they found that right, how they got
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 6: the fingerprints? I doubt yeah, they.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 7: Would even I mean, it's just funny. You're asking about
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 7: Roy Payne and Lauren all the last two people to
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 7: put their hands on that rifle. Yep, and they knew
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 7: where to go to ask about it, you know what
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 7: I mean. So there's lots of questions with the rifle,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 7: for sure. Phelip says, no, No, I guess he never
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 7: did get that rifle back. So, like I said, it's
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 7: probably still in some FBI warehouse next to the ark
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 7: of the Covenant, colecting us somewhere you've seen the light
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 7: of to day again. Now, I'd like to know what
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 7: you think about this article for just saying hold on,
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 7: hold on to your hat, sir. I'm sorry. This is
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 7: very this is very, very small type. So I'm going
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 7: to struggle because my eyes are shit. But there was
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 7: news Joe three years ago, okay from the Tampa Bay
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 7: Times Byeline a Florida tie to the JFK assassination shows
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 7: why secret records need releasing, and they go through the
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 7: whole thing, and uh, this is the story of Jim Pappis.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 7: Pappas would go on to become dean of the United
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 7: University of Southern Florida's Business School, and he's retired in
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 7: Tampa now. But on that day, Pappus was a sophomore
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 7: at UCLA attending a lecturer in anthropology. Someone walked in
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 7: with a note for the professor who announced the news
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 7: of the president's assassination, and Pappus's first reaction was not grief,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 7: nor fear nor disbelief, but instead an urgent question, Joe.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 7: And also the title of one of our friend John Linback's.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 6: Books, Where was Skip?
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 7: Oh? Hell, Where's Skip now? Jim Pappus is one of
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 7: Lauren Hall's step sons. From his first wife. I believe
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 7: it's Anne. Skip was the nickname for Lauren Hall, Sr.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 7: Who was married to Pappus's mother. A soldier of Fortune,
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 7: Hall was prominent in the Free Cuba paramilitary forces trying
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 7: to overthrow the government of Fidel Castro. All had been
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 7: circulating in Dallas trying to raise money for the cause.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 7: Some supporters Harvard a bitter hatred of Kennedy, blaming him
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 7: for the failed invasion of the Bay of Pigs and
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 7: angry that Kennedy abandoned the island to Communist rule. Some
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 7: weeks after Kennedy was murdered, Skip came to Jim's younger brother,
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 7: John Pappus and handed him a rifle. Okay, it was
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 7: a man Liquor Carcano rifle, an Italian military carbine made
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 7: at the same factory as the one that killed the president.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 7: When Hall handed over the rifle, he told his stepson
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 7: to put it away and never to speak of it again,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 7: and for forty fifty seven years. Sorry, John Pappas kept
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 7: that secret. This past spring, however, he started taking talking
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 7: with his brother about the rifle, and together they approached
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 7: me with their suspicions that their mother's husband was part
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 7: of a plot to murder the president. Over six months,
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 7: I interviewed the Papist brothers several times. We consulted firearms experts,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 7: family records, and old court files. I also reached one
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 7: of Skip Hall's sons from a previous marriage, and as
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 7: I edged toward the central question, Larry Hall cut me off.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 7: He said, where are we going with this? He demanded, Well,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 7: I responded, two sons of the woman your father married
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 7: believe he was involved in the murder of Kennedy. And
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 7: he says, quote, I know about all that. Larry Hall answered,
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 7: and I'm not saying shit about it, and then he
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 7: hung up. So that certainly sounds like, yeah, something. The
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 7: apple doesn't fall far from that tree, for sure.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that's for sure.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 7: Yeah. So for the Papist brothers, the last remote chance
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 7: to settle their family mystery could come down to a
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 7: decision by President Joe Biden later this month. Remember this
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 7: was twenty twenty one, nearly six decades and ten presidents
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 7: after the death of JFK's up to Biden whether the
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 7: public gets to see the document or the government's final
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 7: secret files. And spoiler alert, he didn't let us. In
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 7: case you missed, it. So anyway, they give a little
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 7: bit of this background and blah blah blah about the
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 7: Kennedy assassination. We know this, but the Papist brothers were
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 7: from Kansas, but by the early sixties and made their
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 7: way to California, so had their mother Anne, with her
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 7: new husband seven years her junior. The older brother, Jim
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 7: was married himself and kept a greater distance, but the
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 7: younger brother, John was taken with his mother's new husband
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 7: and found him charismatic. After serving in the US Army
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 7: for three whole months, Skip went to fight Cuba, or
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 7: when he went to Cuba to fight in the revolution,
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 7: first with Castro to overthrow Batista and then against Castro
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 7: when he embraced communism. For three months in nineteen fifty nine,
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 7: Skip was in a Cuban prison along with Tampa mobster
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 7: sent There's traffic Conte, and after Kennedy was assassinated, traffic
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 7: Conte himself was considered a suspect. John Pappus enjoyed skips
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 7: stories and adventures, and John remembers a trip to a
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 7: gun range in Saying Gabriel to shoot machine guns and
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 7: a van stuff with weapons and ammunition, which sounds like
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 7: a fun time to me. Joe, Yeah, for sure. And
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 7: then one day he pulled something out. He told him
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 7: he had something special for him. He said, John, take
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 7: this rifle. Put it away, don't touch it, don't talk
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 7: about it, don't even think about it. And when John asked,
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 7: what's this all about, Skip said, you'll know the Carkano.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 7: It was the same make as the rifle Oswald had
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 7: gotten through the mail from a sporting goods company in Chicago.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 7: The rifles are partly regarded as inconsistent and unreliable, and
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 7: Oswald happened to get one the shot straight. Allegedly, it
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 7: was adapted so it could take a telescopic sight, and
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 7: so had the one that Skip Hall gave a stepson.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 7: Somebody was trying to make a hunting rifle out of
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 7: this thing, said Al Affinga, a retired federal agent and
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 7: firearms consultant. At the request of the Tampa Bay Times,
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 7: he studied various photos of the papist rifle. He said
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 7: that would be the only reason for somebody to add
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 7: a scope unless they were going to shoot. The President,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 7: John Pappas, sent the rifle for testing an examination to
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 7: Lucian hagg A Firearms expert in Arizona. Although it came
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 7: from the same Italian armory as Oswald's hag determined, there
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 7: was an older version that took lightly slightly larger bullets
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 7: than the that hit JFK, meaning that this car Kano
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 7: was a seven point six ' five millimeter and not
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 7: a six point five millimeter like that's what's carcano. But
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 7: it was the same. It was the right side, the
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 7: one that Oswald actually ordered, not the one that he got,
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 7: which is interesting. So Skip insisted that he was home
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 7: in California in his short shaving when the news broke,
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 7: and he phoned a neighbor so she could call him
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 7: back and confirm that he answered the telephone in his apartment.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 7: But in the weeks before JFK was shot, Skip had
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 7: been in Dallas raising money for anti Castro activities from
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 7: right wing groups like the John Birch Society and those circles.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 7: There were hard feelings and loose talk about Kennedy's secondhand.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 7: Skip was later quoted as saying that at one of
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 7: the meetings he was offered fifty thousand dollars to shoot
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 7: the president. For years after the assassination, Skip remained a
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 7: subject of great interest for the supermarket tabloids, for Jim Garrison,
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 7: and for the House Select Committee, which questioned him in
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 7: secret and gave him immunity for his testimony. Leading up
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 7: to that interview, the committee sent its chief lawyer to
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 7: the CIA, and on September the one, nineteen seventy seven,
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 7: Blakey requested all CIA info on a man named Lauren
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 7: Hall reached the CIA. From the time, Blakee stated to
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 7: me that the committee investigators had some reason to believe
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 7: that Hall may have had some association with the agency
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 7: and that Hall was in some quote deep trouble. Skip's
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 7: potential connections to the CIA came up again in nineteen
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 7: eighty nine during a federal drug case in Oklahoma. Skipp
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 7: enlisted three of his own children and two other people
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 7: to run a crystal meth lab. The government charge he
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 7: was also known as Lauren Heisenberg.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 6: Uh, it sounds like the guy from Breaking Bad. Yeah,
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 6: I haven't watched it.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 7: Very good, Joe, thank you, thank where you've been.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 7: When he pleaded guilty, Skip's son, Lauren Hall Junior, told
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 7: to judge, my father was involved heavily, at least to
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 7: our understanding with the CIA. As far as aiding the
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 7: contras and taking weapons over to them, and he came
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 7: to us. He came to me one day and said
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 7: that he was involved in the running of guns to
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 7: Nicaragua and that he needed some help. They were they
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 7: had oil that was being used to make methaan fhetamine
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 7: that was supposedly funding the CIA operations. Of course, the
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 7: younger Hall continued, later I found out that that wasn't
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 7: exactly the way everything went down. That means, but after
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 7: the kids were arrested, Skip flew back to the US
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 7: from Central America and surrendered and a court finally, Skip
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 7: said that he put up seventeen thousand dollars in cash
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 7: for the drug ingredients in the equipment, but he needed
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 7: a public defender because he could not afford his own lawyer.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 6: The other lawyer putting up almost two hundred thousand dollars.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 6: But you can't hire a lawyer. Yes, just put it
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 6: in context.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 7: The other defendants, his kids, pleaded guilty and were sentenced
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 7: in open court. Skip's plea and sentence were done in secret,
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 7: and the transcripts were sealed in a vault. He faced
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 7: twenty years in prison, judging from federal probation records. He
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 7: served less than a year and his probation was cut
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 7: short after one more year. Two years later, Lauren Hall
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 7: Skip Hall died and then they go on, uh so
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 7: Little Queen about the secret files that are still not
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 7: released in all this jazz. But it's interesting, you know,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 7: you just never know what people are gonna find. And
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 7: we were actually talking to the guy. I think Doug
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 7: was talking to the guy from the Tampa Bay Times,
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 7: and I think Mike from Wall Street Window was gonna
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 7: fly us to Oregon so we could go look at
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 7: this rifle. But it was in the middle of COVID
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 7: and it was a gigantic pain and the ass to
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 7: travel back then, and you know, we never did it,
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 7: but they did send us pictures of the rifle. We
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 7: have the serial number off of it and all that stuff.
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 7: So it's just crazy things, crazy things. And you know,
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 7: when you're thinking about who was on the ground and
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 7: daily plaiz on that day, I got to say, this guy,
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 7: damn sure is a prime suspect when you look at
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 7: the totality of information and scenarios and what he was
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 7: up to, what he was into, who he knew. You know,
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 7: it's just you know, the rifle and this other stuff
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 7: and then all this other stuff later later. It's it's
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 7: just crazy to me. So I know that's not the
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 7: most in depth on Lauren Hall that we've gotten, but
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 7: you know there's other shows for that. I just wanted
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 7: to bring some some other newer information about Lauren Hall
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 7: because there's a lot on this guy that makes him
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 7: a prime suspect and all this, and that's not everything
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 7: about a long shot. So but uh, yeah, I think
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 7: that's where we are with Skip. So, Joe, if you will,
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 7: have yapped like six barbers long enough, So let's get
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 7: into a little umbrella man allegedly, sure our graves.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 6: Sure, I have one thing to share. Hold on And
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 6: this was actually from let me see if.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 7: Is it a tiny email?
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 6: It is not. Uh, it's actually a Garden and Guns
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 6: tweet hold on, Yes, all.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 7: Right, No, Lee, there is no record of what happened
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 7: to that rifle. Haul says he gave it back to
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 7: the dentist, and I believe having tried to get it,
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 7: and Dennis said, what are you talking about? And that
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 7: was about the end of it.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And so I actually bookmarked this tweet from Garden
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 6: and Guns. Thank you ma'am for tweeting about this. I
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 6: figured it would come into play later. And it's a
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 6: little article and two other pictures on Lauren Hall and
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 6: talks about his wife. And I guess this is from
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 6: the Wichita Eagle from July seventh, nineteen fifty nine, which
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 6: would have been right around the time he was in
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 6: a Cuban prison. The divorced wife of Lauren Eugene Hall,
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 6: recently released Cuban prisoner, has decided to press the charge
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 6: against him on non support for his four children. Miss
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 6: Joanne and Hall, resident of Newton, Kansas, since separating from
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 6: her husband in nineteen fifty seven, told a reporter Thursday
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 6: afternoon that she was assured the county attorney she will
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 6: testify against Hall. She reversed an earlier statement that said
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 6: she would not prosecute the twenty nine year old US
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 6: Army veteran after John Plumber, Harvard County Attorney blah blah
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 6: blah something welfare.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 7: And you can be considered a US Army veteran and
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 7: you didn't even get out of boot camp. That kills me.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean that's what they said. And I think
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 6: you showed you didn't show this picture, but This was
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 6: part of her tweet and it says Cuba holds consan Kansas. Oh, Kansas. Yeah, obviously,
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 6: I'm yes, I'm not from Kansas. But like Dorothy said,
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 6: whatever she said, let's go back to Kansas the Wizard
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 6: of Oz ship. We're not in Kansas anymore. It's a joke. Anyways,
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 6: it is reported that the American arrested in Cuba. This
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 6: is really hard to read. As leader of a nico
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 6: rog or in revolutionary training camp which checks out in
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 6: the Pines del Rio province of Cuba. Lauren Eugene Hall,
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 6: of which Kansas. I'm not gonna read all this, but
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 6: the next one is a little clearer. It's not that significant.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 6: H And I think you showed this picture or op
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 6: didn't you?
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 7: Nope, you did in your I didn't.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 6: I thought you did in one of your earlier pictures
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 6: of Hall. I did, Okay, I'm sorry. Then I think
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 6: this is him without a beard like younger, and obviously
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 6: this is him at twenty nine of Wichita's and gel
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 6: and Cuba charged with being a leader of a Nicaragua
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 6: or in revolutionary training camp in Pinar del Pios, Cuba,
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 6: US embassy and Vanna reported that Hall as a veteran
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 6: of nearly six years, which might differ some of what
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 6: you had said in the US Army, and is a
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 6: divorced father of six children. So I had never seen
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 6: these articles before, so I just bookmarked it and wanted
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 6: to give Garden and Guns her props there.
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 7: But uh, yeah, let's touch real quick on Tiny's email. Sure,
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 7: because I think her analysis is pretty valid. You know,
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 7: it was last week we were talking about dark complexed
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 7: man and his little signed raised fist. You know that
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 7: you know contact has made whatever that means. You know
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 7: that they had planned out beforehand, and that you know,
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 7: this whole nonsense of the umbrella was some kind of
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 7: protest against her chill or whatever, I don't know what,
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 7: some bunch of bullshit, but you know it's it's a signal.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 7: The raised umbrella is a signal, right, symbolic, well, not
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 7: necessarily a symbol, but it's it's easier for somebody who's
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 7: looking through the rifle of a scope of a rifle
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 7: to zero in the area where they're supposed to be
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 7: taking the shot to find something symbolic, you know, a
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 7: signal basically like you know, the umbrella man holding up
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 7: the umbrella is like, okay, when he gets to hear
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 7: this is when this is when it goes. You know,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 7: this is when we shoot boom, when you know where
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 7: I'm standing. When he gets to where I'm standing, went
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 7: to the umbrella, this is when you shoot raised fist.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 7: Job done, We're good. Everybody, get the hell out of here.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 7: I don't know, I'm just speculating.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 6: But the.
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 7: Couple that with the fact that, you know, when Mark
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 7: Lane was interviewing Lee Bowers, you know, the man in
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 7: the tower of the railroad yard behind the grassy knole fence.
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 7: You know, he kept saying that there was these vehicles
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 7: that shouldn't have been back there, kind of making their
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 7: way like slowly cruising through and stopping at certain points.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 7: And he even said that one of them looked like
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 7: they were holding up a walkie talkie. And he also
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 7: commented on the fact that these cars were very, very dirty,
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 7: like cars that had been driven across the United States
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 7: through the deserts, you know, through the swamps, through you know,
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 7: and then baking bacon in the sun, which is exactly
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 7: what these guys were doing in their vehicles, which is
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 7: driving back and forth across the United States, likely never
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 7: washing them because they don't give a shit, you know. Yeah,
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 7: why you know he said they were dirty up to
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 7: the windows, like from the from the tires to the roof,
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 7: like you know, its just baked on, caked on dirt,
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 7: which makes a little sense. But pray continue, Joseph.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 6: Sure. So, uh you know, I'm going to talk a
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 6: little bit about Roy Emery Hargraves here, and of course
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 6: he is a soldier of fortune, American adventurer, whatever you say,
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 6: and I want to give credit here and the next
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 6: couple of slides to friends of the show, Greg Wagner
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 6: on Tango Down sixty three, who has a ton of
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 6: pictures on all the Cuban exiles, all of Inner Pen
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 6: and Roy Hargraves included. This is him on the left
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 6: and on the right is a picture of a lot
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 6: of members of Inter Penn In the background Steve Wilson
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 6: and Collins Ponce de Leone, Jerry Patch, Jerry, Yes, fat Larry.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: That is.
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 6: The Mexican with the goatee. Kind of the dark. I
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 6: guess they're all dark. Can you see my cursor here?
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 7: I can see your curser. Okay, we can see your cury.
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 6: I'm sure they can then and and in the front
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 6: is let's see, in the front is Roy Hargraves right
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 6: here and Joe Garman, but little Joe, little Joe yep.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 6: And this is Royan left in nineteen sixty two, and
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 6: he was he was born in nineteen forty, I believe all.
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 6: Let me check my document here. Yep, he was born
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 6: in nineteen forty, so he would have been twenty two
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 6: at the time of this picture. On the left hand side,
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 6: in the middle it's a picture of him doing some operation.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 6: And on the right.
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 7: I'm sorry, with a rifle in hand. Like all the
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 7: other pictures we've showed you of these people, we think
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 7: we're operators in daily Plaza, yes, sir.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 6: And on the right Sir Philippe, with Philippe's father, Gerald
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 6: Patrick Hemming on the left and Roy on the right.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 6: And of course this is later in life. Has to
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 6: be eighties or nineties. There was not a timestamp, but
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 6: maybe Philip can can correct me there. But I'd be
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 6: shocked if it wasn't eight years or nineties. He died
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 6: in two thousand and two. But of course we have
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 6: talked and a lot of people talked about Roy Hargraves
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 6: being possibly Umbrella Man. And of course we know he
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 6: was friends with Philippe Vidal Santiago, he had worked with him.
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 6: And you know, the picture in the middle here is
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 6: I'm sorry to say, probably the clearest picture of umbrella Man.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 6: And I just want to point you to his hairline
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 6: right this triangle almost right this, yeah, the receding peak
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 6: widow's peak. Yes, and the picture on the right, which
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 6: is from sixty two, less than a year before the
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 6: picture on the middle, allegedly, and the picture on the
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 6: right which is undated. Uh, you could see that similar
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 6: type of hairline. Now do I know Roy Hargraves was
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 6: Umbrella Man. I do not do. I think he is
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 6: by far the most logical plausible option for Umbrella Man.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 6: I think so.
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 7: I think this photo comparison does not disqualify him from
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 7: being Umbrella Man. Given the widow's peak, given the triangle
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 7: triangular nose, it's not like umbrella Man has like a
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 7: scoop nose or a big Roman nose or you know,
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 7: plug nose. I mean, it's perfectly like triangle.
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 6: And yeah, no, you're right, it's small.
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 7: Yeah, no point e chin, which our Graves does have
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 7: as well. It doesn't disqualify him.
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 6: No, And he was operational with with Vidal, and I
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 6: think that's probably the most important aspect of this whole thing.
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 6: And like I'm going to show you shortly, he was operational.
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 7: And just a reminder, folks, just a reminder, Okay, Dark
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 7: complected Man is not the only person that went unidentified
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 7: in Daly Plaza for a very long time. In fact,
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 7: we still don't know who in the hell officially Dark
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 7: complexed Man is. We have our suspicions about who he is,
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 7: but no one has ever came out and said publicly
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 7: that that's them, and neither did the Umbrella man. He
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 7: was allegedly found miraculously in the late seventies for the
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 7: House Select Committee on Assassinations. But many of the things
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 7: that he said just didn't make much sense. So this guy,
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 7: whoever he is, did not come out and say that's me.
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 7: He did not hang around in Daly Plaza to be
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 7: you know, swifted away to the local news show to
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 7: get on there and say hey, you know ten feet away.
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 7: You know, he did not was never interviewed. This person
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 7: was never interviewed by the FBI, the Dallas Please nothing.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 7: They just disappeared like ghosts that day, which is what
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 7: operators do. Pray continue, yes.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 6: Sir, and I believe I mentioned this on our members
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 6: only chat on Wednesday. But over Lancer, I had a
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 6: chance to spend a lot of time with David Boylan,
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 6: and David Boylan is co writing the Oswalt Puzzle with
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 6: Larry Hancock, and we're gonna plug some of Larry stuff
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 6: in a second in regards to hard Graves. But he
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 6: was saying, and one of the pictures we showed at
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 6: our Lancer presentation that got kind of that big gap
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 6: was the whole people in the Congo one year later, right,
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 6: posing with the umbrella. And the person that was posing
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 6: with the umbrella was Renee Garcia, who is one of
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 6: the pilots for the Bay of Pigs, and he allegedly
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 6: promised umbrella coverage over the landing force. Of course that
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 6: would be the Cuban exiles, right, And I went back
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 6: to the symbolic quote like they might have had this
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 6: umbrella man there to symbolically mock JFK being like, you
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 6: promised umbrella coverage and now on one of your last breaths,
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 6: you're gonna, you know, see an umbrella. You know what
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 6: I mean, so that is what David Boylan told me.
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 6: He is one of the most he's one of the
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 6: smartest people in terms of Cuban exiles and operators. I mean,
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 6: no one knows as much as he does. He is
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 6: a treasure for sure.
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 7: And in that picture in the Congo with the guy
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 7: holding the umbrella is Rip Robertson.
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 6: He is in that picture. Yes, yes, he is in
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 6: that picture for sure. And and that's kind of what
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 6: we get back to here when we talk about Fidal
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 6: and and hard Graves. I mean, these were all people
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 6: that were part of the same faction, right and they
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 6: might have had different incentives personally, but you know, they
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 6: it's definitely one of the most intriguing factions you can
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 6: kind of think of in terms of who was working
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 6: together to possibly eliminate JFK. So let me move on here,
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 6: Roy Hargraves. And this is a document, an FBI document
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 6: from March of nineteen sixty three, and he had planned
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 6: to raid into Cuba and the Bureau this is really
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 6: hard to read. The Bureau realizes that early that only
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 6: MM some type of informant redacted Bureau informant in this matter,
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 6: as knowledge of Hargraves account of the expedition. Nevertheless, interviews
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 6: with him and with Rolando ms Ferre, who allegedly supplied
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 6: money and weapons, would be desirable since I think it's clean. Alvarez,
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 6: who like Hartgraves, was connected with inter PEN, was captured
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 6: by Cuban authorities. It is felt that members of inter PEN,
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 6: including Hardgraves, Hemming, and others, could have been interviewed without
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 6: jeopardizing bureau informant. So they're trying to like figure out
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 6: if their informant here has been compromised. It is my
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 6: read on this.
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 7: Yeah, Howard K. Davis, Yeah, I probably, I don't know.
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and let's see what more.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 7: Good old MMT one.
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 6: Yeah, there are a lot of them. Memorandum Juan Now
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 6: to Sullivan three five sixty three advised that Cubans captured
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 6: eight counter revolutionaries and repossessed two fishing vessels, which is
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 6: group had allegedly seized. I'm sorry, do you say something.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 7: Me?
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 6: No?
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 7: Okay?
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 6: Uh?
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 7: Information and real quick, Joe wheuse, this is March of
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 7: sixty three, yep. And hard Graves, Howard and a bunch
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 7: of these other guys were just arrested in early December
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 7: nineteen sixty two for violation of the Neutrality Act for
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 7: getting ready to pull a raid unauthorized raid. So that
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 7: didn't see much.
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 6: That's my next slide.
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 7: Bro Oh, okay, come on, come on, I'm just.
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 6: Playing with you because you just did the same thing
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 6: to me. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, we we do this
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 6: very in a lot. We do a lot of improv
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 6: on the show. And Hargraves and two others reportedly returned
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 6: to Miami prior to the capture of the Eight Kind
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 6: of Revolutionaries. Gerald Pastrick Hemming, head of inter Pen and
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 6: soldier of Fortune undoubtedly new known of this matter and
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 6: is close with the Miami attorney. Blah blah blah blah.
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 6: But yes, the group violated the Neutrality Act. And let's
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 6: I'm gonna actually skipt this here. So let's see how
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 6: many times Ry Hargraves got into trouble. And he got
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 6: in trouble a lot here and actually I alone, excuse me,
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 6: it's okay, sir. So when he was in the military,
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 6: he went a wall in nineteen fifty seven.
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 7: I got a little bit of a rap sheet there.
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 7: It looks like bro, I.
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 6: Struggled to get on it. One slide and he was
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 6: from Arizona, where his wife was in Arizona Maricopa County,
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 6: which has some interesting relevance with some of the election
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 6: shit these days. Right, it's like the county that has
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 6: all the drama. And that's a nineteen I'm sorry, I.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 7: Said, thank you, Scott. Baby video game controller sits in
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 7: a diaper under the word nube. Thank you for the supersticker,
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 7: my friend.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 6: Thank you, Scott. Nice to see you here. I hung
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 6: out with Scott a lot during the Lancer conference and
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 6: super nice guy was there for I mean, I showed
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 6: up at like nine am one morning and here he
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 6: is already showed up there, ready to go, and great guy.
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 6: I enjoyed his company a lot.
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 7: So you ain't lying, James. I tried to hit the
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 7: damn belt button, but it didn't work.
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 6: What's the belt one you lost?
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 7: Just turn him on my cough and coughing or belt?
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 6: I see, okay.
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 7: So you see.
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 6: Throughout fifty seven and fifty eight he's arrested for grand
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 6: theft twice, burglary, vagrancy three plus times, shoplifting, and I think,
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 6: as you mentioned Rob on November or December fourth, sixty two,
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 6: violation of the Neutrality Act Firearms Act in June sixty three.
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 6: I mean, bro, this wrap sheet is ridiculous. And he's
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 6: twenty three at the time of the JFK assassination and
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 6: he's already got a rap sheet this long. Bro's It's
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 6: so when you think of people that would do this
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 6: type of operation in Dealey Plaza, you have to consider
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 6: what they've done in the past. So absolutely, yeah, and
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 6: my power point is all fucked up here. But uh
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 6: on December fourth, This is like a bunch of his
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 6: uh descriptions of every time he was arrested. But the
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 6: relevant part. December fourth, sixty two, Hard Graves and twelve
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 6: other American inventorers were or Soldiers of Fortune were arrested
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 6: by the United States Border Patrol for a violation the
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 6: Neutrality Act. The group had a massive quantity of arms
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 6: and ammunition and a boat and were preparing to leave
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 6: on a raid against Cuba. And yeah, this did not
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 6: stop here. Let me see u when Ron. I'm sure
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 6: you're familiar of the pilot Alexander Rourke. Yes, Yes, the
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 6: CIA pilot who went disappeared on a mission in September
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 6: nineteen sixty three in Central America. Well, heart, Graves and
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 6: four other adventurers, including Hemming, went to Central America to
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 6: try to search for Roork and they were unsuccessful in
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 6: their attempt there. Yeah, yeah, And that's a whole other
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 6: crazy story that maybe we'll do on another episode, but
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 6: it's a lot to get into. From November sixty three
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 6: through March sixty four, hard Graves was closely associated with
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 6: an worked for Felipe Vidal Santiago, a Cuban revolutionist in Miami.
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 6: Hargraves helped Vidal to obtain arms, ammunition, and a boat.
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 6: He transported the boat and military equipment between him between
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 6: Miami and the Florida Keys. When Hargraves was stopped by
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 6: the US customs agents, Vidal clandestinely left the United States
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 6: and infiltrated Cuba. Vidal, as we covered last episode, was
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 6: captured and shortly after executed by a firing squad in
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 6: Cuba in April nineteen sixty four. MMT two explained that
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 6: the United National Front against Castro is unknown in the
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 6: Miami area and is probably a paper organization created by
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 6: Hargraves to raise money, essentially to collect funds, medicine and
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 6: materials for later sale to Cuban exiles in Miami. So
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 6: let's see there, we'll skip this one. We just talked
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 6: about this. Sorry, okay. So we have established that Roy
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 6: Hargraves was operational from in the nineteen starting in nineteen
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 6: sixty one through nineteen sixty four. But he was that
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 6: and there's not many documents rob around the time of
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 6: the assassination on Hardgraves. I mean, there are a few,
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 6: but nothing that we would be looking for. So in
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 6: nineteen six, which is about five years after the assassination,
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 6: what is Roy Hargraves doing.
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 7: Well, Operation Chaos.
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 6: Yeah, he's getting into trouble. And when we talk about
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 6: the type of people, and I'm bringing it back to
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 6: this that would have participated in the JFK assassination plot,
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 6: you have to think of people that were operational, that
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 6: don't give a f that are risking their lives. And
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 6: as I'm going to show you here, Roy Hargraves continue
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 6: to do that. And this is I believe when he's
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 6: twenty eight years old. This is a little snippet from
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 6: an article Roy Hargraves, who in September sixty three trained
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 6: for an invasion of Cuba on no name key under
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 6: the direction of this Central Intelligence Agency disbanded until Kennedy
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 6: disbanded the training camp. In quotations, has admitted to the
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 6: bombing of the Office of the Students for a Democratic
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 6: Society in Long Beach, California. When arrested, Hartgraves told police,
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 6: I did it. I did it alone. Doesn't give a.
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 7: Crap anybody else up. I doubt he did it alone.
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, No, he's taking the blame and he probably
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 6: knows he's gonna get off, and coincidentally he did. Hartgraves
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 6: was originally charged with felony of taking explosives near a
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 6: public place, which you would think would obviously be a felony.
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 6: The District attorney, however, later reduced the charges to misdimmanting
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 6: of malicious mischief. The DA gave no explanation as to
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 6: why charges were reduced.
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 7: It wasn't dynamite, Joe, it was just fund just some firecrackers, yeah,
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 7: or or the CIA called the District Attorney of Los
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 7: Angeles and said, look, yeah, you better turn this guy
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 7: loose a sat Yeah.
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 6: And that's similar with Lauren Hall, right with with the
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 6: meth thing, right, because he shouldn't have gotten out of
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 6: that like he did, right, but he did.
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 7: And if he's and if he's doing that ship in
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 7: the eighties, like you said, for the Sandinistas and then
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 7: and Army Nicaraguans and all this stuff, all this you know,
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 7: Oli Oliver North crap that was going on back in
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 7: the eighties. It doesn't surprise me one bit.
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a pattern, man, and it's a the same
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 6: people that have had connections for decades. Honestly on the
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 6: right side. October twenty second, sixty eighth Lieutenant Roy Henry
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 6: Intelligence Detail Long Beach, California advisor represented the FBI that
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 6: they have received information from a conference source that Roy
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 6: Emery Hartgraves, prior to instant bombing, has been seen with
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 6: dynamite and caps in his possession shocker. Based on this information,
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 6: Long Beach police arrested Heart Graves, of white male, eight
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 6: years of age in nineteen sixty eight at his residence
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 6: in Long Beach, California, for outstanding traffic wards. I mean,
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 6: I think we could see the ridiculousness in that right
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 6: here here, this guy is going and putting bombs everywhere,
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 6: and he's arrested for traffic warns.
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 7: Yeah, it's almost like getting pulled over for a concealed
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 7: license plate.
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, that's a big issue in New York right now. Actually,
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 6: Hargraves originally denied any knowledge of the bombing, but thereafter
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 6: furnished a statement acknowledging he was responsible for this bombing.
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 6: And of course that lines up with the article to
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 6: the left of the document reading on the right, Hard
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 6: Graves we formally charged with this bombing by the Long
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 6: Beach authorities on October twenty third, sixty eight. Blah blah blah.
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 6: Bro you can't make this up with hard Graves.
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 11: I mean, it's fascinating to have kind of gone down
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 11: the rabbit hole of his documents here, But here we go.
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 6: In later sixty eight, l I nineteen, which is a
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 6: code for some type of informant, stated that Hargraves, who
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 6: admitted an arrest for a gun smuggling in Miami, Florida
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 6: and sixty five, claimed he was working for the Central
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 6: Intelligence Agency in Florida. So this is this is someone
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 6: that is a contact, right, Like, sorry, my mind just
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 6: went blank. Informant telling them, I'm sorry that Hardgraves is
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 6: saying that he worked with the Central Intelligence Agency in
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 6: Florida in the sixties. L T nine said that Hargraves
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 6: was integrated by representatives of the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 6: will under arrest. Blah blah blah is currently in jail,
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 6: although he did not stay in jail long. So that
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 6: is nineteen sixty eight, Rob. But in nineteen seventy do
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 6: you think Hargraves changed up his act?
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 7: No, he did not.
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 6: You were correct, And this topic is Roy Emery Hargraves,
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 6: Gerald Patrick Hemming, Internal Security Dash Cuba. It is noted
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 6: that Roy Hargraves, an American adventurer and mercenary, in July
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 6: nineteen seventy advised he was involved in a plan to
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 6: affect warfare between the United States and Cuba. The plan
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 6: consisted of his anticipation to have something deflecting Cuban military
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 6: personnel fire missiles against the United States Navy Base Guantanamo, Cuba,
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 6: thus projecting the United States into a military takeover of Cuba.
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 6: So what this is saying here is Roy Hargraves in
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 6: nineteen seventy is trying to create a false flag at
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 6: the US Navy base Guantanamo Bay to try to get
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 6: the United States to invade.
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 7: And missile into Guantanamo Bay.
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Oh, it was from some some people
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 6: that were defecting that we're going to fight fire the missile.
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 6: It's really confusing, but essentially, I mean, he gets locked
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 6: up in sixty eight for bombing people in California, and
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 6: here he is, you know, less than two years after
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 6: trying to plan a major false flag into the seventies
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 6: in Cuba. Yeah. I mean, and this is the type
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 6: of guy, if you look at her objectively, that would
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 6: be crazy enough to participate in a rate against Cuba
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 6: or I'm an assassination against Jeff Ka. I'm sorry. So
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 6: you mentioned Operation Chaos, right, yes, yeah, And that was
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 6: a CIA domestic espionage project targeting American citizens from sixty
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 6: seven to seventy four, established by LBJ and expanded under
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 6: President Nixon, whose mission was to uncover possible foreign influence
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 6: on domestic race, anti war, and other protests movements. And
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 6: remember Hargraves tried to bomb the Black Panthers and the
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 6: students of Democratic whatever. Right, yes, thank you. So the
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 6: operation was launched under DCI Helms and Chief of counter
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 6: Intelligence Angleton and headed by Richard ober CI was charged
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 6: with collection, correlation and about value of intelligence. Executive Order
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 6: Cointel pro. We talked about that a little bit on
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 6: the Member's Only Rob. I don't want to let go
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 6: too deep into this HT lingual, which was the program
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 6: involved with examining correspondence, specifically the male. So how is
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 6: Hard Graves involved in this? If you know what I mean?
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 12: Like, he's not some throw around mercenary soldier of fortune here.
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 7: You know, Well, he kind of is if the CI
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 7: is paying him to do his shit.
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 6: Well, I said not throw around, right, I'm saying like
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 6: he was a valued asset and a ton of different things.
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 7: Also knew that he was a loose cannon with loose
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 7: lips and a very dangerous guy, but that he could
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 7: do stuff. He got the job done, yep. And these
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 7: are the kind of people that they look to to
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 7: do these things. I mean, the CIA is not supposed
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 7: to operate on domestic soil, but they can pay people
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 7: to do things on domestic soil that can't be traced
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 7: back to the CIA, at least immediately or on paper.
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 7: So these are the kind of people that they used.
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 7: You can never tie them back to the CIA.
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 6: Right, always one degreest separation.
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 7: Right, Yeah, Even though harg Grays might have known exactly
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 7: where his funding was coming from and where his orders
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 7: were coming from, you know, as as the informant was saying,
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 7: you know, he admitted to working for the CIA. Well,
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 7: if Hargreys well aware of where his money was coming
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 7: from and who he was doing things for, that doesn't
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 7: mean he was in any kind of official capacity, you
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 7: know what I mean? Cutout right?
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah, for sure, And just catching up on some of
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 6: the comments. Yes, James Chaos was in tandem with co
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 6: intel Pro for sure.
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 7: And yeah we got a lot into co intel Pro.
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 7: On the members only show. He talked about Lawrence Howard
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 7: and the Brown Berets and Operation Chaos, and as I
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 7: think we'll see, I took a little snippet from the
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 7: Hargraves interview with an old Twineman where he was talking
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 7: about Lawrence Howard and when he was working with the brand.
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 7: He's you know, there's a certain amount of period of
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 7: time that Larry Howard will not talk about, and that
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 7: is from conveniently after the assassination in sixty three until
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 7: about April of sixty four, after Dalla is killed. So yeah,
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 7: has a little something from that interview, because.
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 6: Yep, I do, and that is a great segue here. So,
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 6: and I even have a surprise for you, Rob.
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 7: I love so. Yeah, I know you do.
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 6: So we're going to briefly touch upon even though we
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 6: are over two hours ready on the interview with Noel
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 6: Twyman and Roy Hargraves and Jerry Patrick Kemming's brother r Hemming.
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 6: I believe his name is Robert. Don't quote me on it.
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 6: I didn't figure that out. But I did email Larry
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 6: Hancock today because this whole thirty nine pages of interviews
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 6: with Twyman was included in his first edition appendix A
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 6: of someone would have talked and had to be discluded
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 6: not included. This discluded a word disincluded from from future
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 6: versions of the book. And I was not sure why, Rob,
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 6: So what did I do? I wanted? I went to
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 6: the source and I asked, I said, why did why
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 6: were you not allowed to uh print this in in
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 6: later editions?
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 7: Because I'm pretty sure Twiemon was dead by the time
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 7: Larry's book came out. Yeah, I'm wondering the answer.
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And uh, I think Twyman, for whatever reason, was
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 6: like like whatever issue he had with his wife, like
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 6: his wife was pissed at him for doing all this
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 6: JFK research. I know you and me Rob can uh
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 6: uh can uh can understand that we can empathize? Yes,
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 6: and uh uh so I asked him, and uh, let
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 6: me just plug in my fucking laptop here and I'll.
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 7: Be right back. That's my non existent ring finger there, folks.
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 7: Let's see. Thank you perpetual concepts. What's blige silvio adio
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 7: beneath the mistletoe? Oh, there's a lovely visual. He was
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 7: quite a lovely lady. Yeah, dude, that'd be bad if
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 7: your laptop died right in the middle of this, right
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 7: before we get to the juicy bits.
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 6: No, we should be good.
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 7: He normally waits till it's four percent and then all
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 7: of a sudden disappears.
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 6: Well, it's that nineteen right now.
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 7: At least you called it.
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 6: No, but just just do another common or two before
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 6: I figure this out.
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 7: Now, word kay Davis was in Dallas to personally watched
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 7: the fireworks. Uh, I don't know about that. I don't
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 7: know about that.
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 6: NK.
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 7: I would have to look at that document again. I
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 7: don't think it was our m MT one, Howard K. Davis.
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 7: I can't remember exactly. It'd be really interesting if it was,
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 7: because you know, there's that picture that of allegedly Ripper
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 7: Robertson in daily Plaid, which she's interesting. And if Howard K.
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 7: Davis was in Dallas, that would be really interesting considering
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 7: he's the rat, He's the dirty rat group of mercenaries.
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and I do think that is Robertson. I mean,
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 6: just look at the nose. Oh, I know, as someone
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 6: that has big nose, I can relate. So you sniffed
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 6: it out, Yes, a good way, I got Joe. Oh oh,
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 6: all right, I'm ready here.
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 7: All right.
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 6: So there is a thirty nine page interview as we
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 6: had briefly described with Noel Twyman, Roy Hargraves and Jerry Patrick,
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 6: Hemming's brother.
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 7: That was later possibly acting as Roy Hargrave's attorney at
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 7: the time.
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it definitely sounded like it, for sure. He was
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 6: like clearing things up, for sure. So I asked Larry
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 6: about this today and I said, you know, if you
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 6: can't tell me why, I understand. But he said, no,
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 6: here's a quick answer to your question. Noel Twyman was
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 6: contacted by Hargraves and Heming's brother, who had concerns over
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 6: the interview being public, and he contacted me Larry Hancock
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 6: and asked that I remove it from the next edition
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 6: of the book.
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 7: Wait say that again.
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 6: Noel Twyman was contacted by Hargraves and Heming's brother. They
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 6: had concerns over this thirty nine page interview being public
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 6: and contacted Larry Hancock and asked him to remove it
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 6: from the next edition from his book. It was in
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 6: the appendix of someone would have talked the first.
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 7: One, So Noel Twyman asked him to remove it.
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 6: R Graves and Heming's brother asked him, asked to remove.
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 7: It, but so Hardgraves and his attorney, Hemming's brother, Yeah,
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 7: asked him to remove that.
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And we have some more here. And Larry continues,
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 6: and thank you Larry for providing this context because I
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 6: asked him. I told him like I'd read a couple
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 6: of pages from this and just asked him for the context.
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 6: And he very nicely got back to me, very quickly
• 2:18:36
  Speaker 6: and gave me a quick answer on this. So you know,
• 2:18:39
  Speaker 6: Larry is a treasure. I don't think we uh, anyone
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 6: would doubt that, So he continues, Larry. Years later, I
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 6: talked personally to Hemming's brother that would be r Hemming
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 6: in the transcript we were going to read shortly, and
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 6: his version was that hard Graves was still legally actionable
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 6: for some charges in LA at the time and didn't
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 6: want his name showing up anywhere.
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 7: So well, anything other than murder or treason, I think
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 7: does have a statute of limitations, which would likely have
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 7: dropped off in the thirty years since LA.
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 6: So well, I don't think murder ever drops off.
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 7: Uh, that's what I just said, Joe. Oh, except murder
• 2:19:41
  Speaker 7: and treason has a statute of limitations. Yeah.
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 6: So it's probably like a lawyer's recommendation to be like,
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 6: don't put this in future editions whatever. Right, Yeah, and
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 6: let me get can you hear? Not sure? I believe that,
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 6: love Larry, but Noel Twyman said if they could get
• 2:20:16
  Speaker 6: on the phone with Jerry during breaks and apparently brief
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 6: him and ask him for advice. Jerry's brother told me
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 6: that Heming consciously told a variety of stories, some true,
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 6: most false, to ensure that no one who was on
• 2:20:34
  Speaker 6: the inside would get uncomfortable. In other words, Jerry Patrick
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 6: Hemming shot his own credibility as a type of self protection.
• 2:20:52
  Speaker 6: Boom essentially like he was all over the place, heming
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 6: that no one could have ever taken I.
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 7: Know yet, I mean, yeah.
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 6: Yeah, but it's just confirmed from someone who was probably
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 6: contacted legally in terms of the appendix, and that's one
• 2:21:14
  Speaker 6: of the reasons why he he did stay alive. And
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 6: we did show a picture of Hemming and Hardgraves in
• 2:21:23
  Speaker 6: their later years fifty sixties. Yeah, golden years in their
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 6: golden is that golden years for soldiers of fortune? Probably
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 6: that would be golden years.
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 7: And as far as I know, William Seymour is still alive.
• 2:21:43
  Speaker 7: I saw a photo of him in a nursing home
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 7: in Florida really doing some crafts. Yeah.
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 6: Wow wow. So I think I sent you the link
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 6: and it is online, Rob. I don't know if you
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 6: put in the show notes, but there's thirty nine pages
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 6: of the Nold Twyman interview with hard Graves. I'm gonna
• 2:22:09
  Speaker 6: share a couple random points here, and this is going
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 6: to be jumping around a lot because we have a
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 6: little bit of time. But Hargraves, this is where v
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 6: Dall is going along with the program, saying we were
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 6: driven to Dallas Nold Twyman. Oh, but he wasn't driven
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 6: to Dallas Heming's brother. Maybe he was driven to Dallas earlier.
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 6: He went to Dallas several times, which of course we
• 2:22:41
  Speaker 6: covered last episode Rob with.
• 2:22:44
  Speaker 7: The Colonel Bishop thing.
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, and the early Yeah, the visit to Walker's
• 2:22:50
  Speaker 6: house and Hargraves says, okay, and that puts v Dal
• 2:22:54
  Speaker 6: and I and two others at Walker's house, you know,
• 2:22:59
  Speaker 6: at the time, at about the time that Walker was shot.
• 2:23:05
  Speaker 6: This is like my mind blown face, you know, or
• 2:23:08
  Speaker 6: before laughs.
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 7: Still laughing.
• 2:23:12
  Speaker 6: Yeah. So yeah, So what everyone has to understand about
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 6: this interview with Twyman is that hard Graves is and
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 6: Hemming is fucking with Twyman. I mean, he is trolling him.
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 6: He is laughing, he is he knows he's never gonna
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 6: get prosecuted for any of this stuff. And he is
• 2:23:37
  Speaker 6: straight up trolling and laughing in everyone's face. And this
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 6: is a consistent, consistent through his whole interview here.
• 2:23:50
  Speaker 7: In the sense that you mean trolling is in just
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 7: straight up bullshitting him.
• 2:23:56
  Speaker 6: I think it's both. I think there's some trolling. I
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 6: think there's some bullshitting, but no truth. Oh no, there's
• 2:24:04
  Speaker 6: a significant amount of truth.
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 7: That's what I mean. When you said, it seems like
• 2:24:09
  Speaker 7: they were just telling stories and bullshitting.
• 2:24:12
  Speaker 6: No, I mean trolling is in like laughing and like
• 2:24:16
  Speaker 6: making fun of like you're never gonna catch us. We're
• 2:24:19
  Speaker 6: gonna laugh at this and and make fun of you.
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 6: And you have to remember, these guys risk their lives
• 2:24:28
  Speaker 6: for decades. Uh you know what I mean, Like they're
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 6: not going to care about some interview with some guy
• 2:24:35
  Speaker 6: decades later. They know they're not gonna get caught, right right, Yeah,
• 2:24:40
  Speaker 6: and so they're they're trolling. So uh so that's what
• 2:24:44
  Speaker 6: I meant by that. I'm sorry, sir. And is it
• 2:24:50
  Speaker 6: possible you and he and I think he's talking fidal
• 2:24:54
  Speaker 6: We're down there just as a cool incident set the assassination.
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 6: Hard Grapes, No, No, Old Twyman, you don't think so, Hargraves,
• 2:25:04
  Speaker 6: absolutely not, No way, that's ludicrous. Let's see Hemming's brother
• 2:25:20
  Speaker 6: says not. With their background, that was the reason why
• 2:25:25
  Speaker 6: they were there. They were Oswalt's and plural. They were
• 2:25:29
  Speaker 6: found dead with guns clutched in their hands if they
• 2:25:31
  Speaker 6: had to be. I think this is one of No
• 2:25:38
  Speaker 6: Old Twyman's like co authors Shoulder Shoulder. I got kind
• 2:25:44
  Speaker 6: of confused a little bit here when you went to Dallas.
• 2:25:47
  Speaker 6: Did you know Kennedy was going to be in Dallas
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 6: at the time when you were going there, Hemming says,
• 2:25:55
  Speaker 6: which is interesting, No, no, Hargraves, hell no, Hemming. They
• 2:26:02
  Speaker 6: were following Kennedy. You weren't.
• 2:26:06
  Speaker 7: I'm right, they weren't following Kennedy.
• 2:26:09
  Speaker 6: They weren't following Kenny. I'm sorry, thank you, sir. You
• 2:26:13
  Speaker 6: didn't know he was going to be down there, Hemming.
• 2:26:17
  Speaker 6: They didn't have time to read the newspaper. When you're operating,
• 2:26:21
  Speaker 6: you ain't got time to do anything but operate. That's
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 6: the truth, her Graves. It was announced, In fact, the
• 2:26:31
  Speaker 6: last we heard he was going to Chicago. The last
• 2:26:35
  Speaker 6: information I heard anyway, Hemming's brother, even though they published
• 2:26:40
  Speaker 6: it in the newspaper a month before. As far as
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 6: they knew, it was a surprise. Hard Graves and Philippe
• 2:26:47
  Speaker 6: beat Al Santiago never said anything about any changes. So,
• 2:26:51
  Speaker 6: as far as I knew, Philip was under the impression
• 2:26:54
  Speaker 6: that Kennedy was going to be in Chicago. Hemming's brother.
• 2:27:00
  Speaker 6: He went to Miami. They found out the Miami thing,
• 2:27:05
  Speaker 6: which I think they're talking about, the bombing yeah, and
• 2:27:10
  Speaker 6: the exile there. I know you know his name, but
• 2:27:18
  Speaker 6: that was the possible Patsy going forward, Yes, sir, thank you.
• 2:27:29
  Speaker 7: I don't know.
• 2:27:31
  Speaker 6: Then Bolden came out from Chicago. They canceled Chicago, and
• 2:27:35
  Speaker 6: the next choice was Dallas or la and they sent
• 2:27:38
  Speaker 6: him to Dallas. So anybody who had been following him
• 2:27:43
  Speaker 6: would have not known that he was in Dallas without
• 2:27:47
  Speaker 6: having inside information unless you lived in Dallas. And that
• 2:27:51
  Speaker 6: morning in the paper said Kennedy was going to be there.
• 2:27:59
  Speaker 6: And we're gonna get into Lauren Hall a second. So
• 2:28:01
  Speaker 6: this interview jumps around a lot, and it's like thirty
• 2:28:05
  Speaker 6: nine pages, and I took a few screenshots, but just
• 2:28:08
  Speaker 6: to for some continuation purposes. On your Lauren Hall segment,
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 6: an old twyman asks Lauren Hall and ed maybe Edward
• 2:28:24
  Speaker 6: Collins probably yes, they're being controlled by cashro agents and
• 2:28:31
  Speaker 6: they're being sent to burn a source of money. Jerry
• 2:28:35
  Speaker 6: Patrick Heming goes to the front door of lesser Log's
• 2:28:37
  Speaker 6: place and goes out to the back door and a
• 2:28:40
  Speaker 6: fucking FBI agent shows up with unintelligible all right, you
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 6: booked mister Log. Why did you see who just left? Oh?
• 2:28:53
  Speaker 6: So Jerry said for years that he had told the
• 2:28:57
  Speaker 6: story going out to the back door and he'd see
• 2:29:00
  Speaker 6: he Fed's going in the front door right after him.
• 2:29:03
  Speaker 6: Noel Twyman, So Lauren Hall was a Fed or was
• 2:29:08
  Speaker 6: he a Castro agent? Interesting question? Heming's brother, and I
• 2:29:14
  Speaker 6: don't think that a great relationship at this point. Hall
• 2:29:17
  Speaker 6: in Heming, he wouldn't know that.
• 2:29:20
  Speaker 7: I don't think they ever did.
• 2:29:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah, they were always like drama, right, so take this
• 2:29:25
  Speaker 6: with a grain of salt. He wouldn't know that he
• 2:29:29
  Speaker 6: was working for a Fidel Bernese aka Bernardo de Taurres
• 2:29:35
  Speaker 6: had been working for a Fidal and didn't know it.
• 2:29:38
  Speaker 6: He knows. Now after a while you sit down and
• 2:29:41
  Speaker 6: start thinking about some of the jobs you've done, you
• 2:29:43
  Speaker 6: start realizing who you've been working for. If everybody you
• 2:29:48
  Speaker 6: killed was an anti Casher agent, blah blah blah. Okay,
• 2:29:52
  Speaker 6: we were trying to figure out coming up here is
• 2:29:55
  Speaker 6: Noel Twyman. Just when Oswald got co opted in to
• 2:30:00
  Speaker 6: being a patsy? At what point? As I was saying,
• 2:30:05
  Speaker 6: you know, in fact, if you're talking about Roy Hargraves
• 2:30:09
  Speaker 6: and beat Al Santiago, Roy could have been in Dallas
• 2:30:13
  Speaker 6: been involved in the Walker incident, been involved with Oswalt,
• 2:30:16
  Speaker 6: been involved in even getting him his rifle. Not that
• 2:30:20
  Speaker 6: you were, but you could have, and it could have
• 2:30:24
  Speaker 6: been innocent. That doesn't mean you're involved in the Kenny assassination.
• 2:30:28
  Speaker 6: I mean he's playing it really safe, heer twyman. Of course,
• 2:30:33
  Speaker 6: because Hargraves is right in front of him. Right, you're
• 2:30:35
  Speaker 6: not gonna say, Hargraves, you killed the president? Right? And
• 2:30:41
  Speaker 6: Hargrave says, how come one of the worst pieces of
• 2:30:45
  Speaker 6: shit weapons going, the Manliquer carcano? How come so many
• 2:30:50
  Speaker 6: of them are turning up at the same time? Question Mark?
• 2:30:54
  Speaker 6: How come they they're brought by one agent in New Orleans?
• 2:30:59
  Speaker 6: What four of them? They're also in your papers? He
• 2:31:02
  Speaker 6: gets four of them? How come a couple of more
• 2:31:04
  Speaker 6: of them turn up? You know, it's all of a sudden,
• 2:31:07
  Speaker 6: out of nowhere, the chief weapon of choice, a halfway
• 2:31:11
  Speaker 6: decent weapon, is set up. It was very cheap to
• 2:31:14
  Speaker 6: get a hold of if you needed to do some
• 2:31:17
  Speaker 6: troops on a budget thing. But why go for the carcano?
• 2:31:22
  Speaker 6: That's the only thing I'd ever heard.
• 2:31:24
  Speaker 7: And who came up with another carcano? A couple of
• 2:31:30
  Speaker 7: weeks after the assassination to give to his son to
• 2:31:33
  Speaker 7: hide and put away and say forget about this thing.
• 2:31:37
  Speaker 6: Was it all?
• 2:31:39
  Speaker 7: Yeah?
• 2:31:39
  Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, okay, I thought it was a trick question.
• 2:31:45
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 2:31:45
  Speaker 6: No, And of course that's the it was nicknamed the
• 2:31:52
  Speaker 6: was it the piece?
• 2:31:55
  Speaker 7: It was just further corroboration that these shitty rifles that
• 2:31:59
  Speaker 7: were I'm a dozen that these guys, you know, they
• 2:32:03
  Speaker 7: weren't driving across the country collecting these weapons. That nobody
• 2:32:09
  Speaker 7: was giving up their Johnson thirty odd sixes sniper rifles
• 2:32:14
  Speaker 7: to these guys. They were giving them some piece of
• 2:32:16
  Speaker 7: shit surplus crap to take and arm these anti Castro
• 2:32:23
  Speaker 7: Cubans with. I mean, Klein sold them. And you know
• 2:32:27
  Speaker 7: who applied to work at Klein's, Gerald Patrick Hemming. Really yeah,
• 2:32:34
  Speaker 7: he put that. I think it was on a CIA application.
• 2:32:41
  Speaker 7: You can't make this stuff up. Yeah, Hall has a
• 2:32:45
  Speaker 7: man lock r Karkandoe rifle.
• 2:32:48
  Speaker 6: I mean, come on, yeah, no, that that definitely is
• 2:32:51
  Speaker 6: a corroboration. For sure.
• 2:32:53
  Speaker 7: I think I can think about something, Joe. If you're
• 2:32:55
  Speaker 7: going to set up a Patsy Who with a man
• 2:33:00
  Speaker 7: liquor carcano shit rifle, then you would think that at
• 2:33:05
  Speaker 7: least a couple of the other people actually shooting would
• 2:33:09
  Speaker 7: be using the same rifle, because whether it's fired out
• 2:33:16
  Speaker 7: of a seven six y five or six and a
• 2:33:19
  Speaker 7: half millimeter, unless you have the casing, you're never gonna
• 2:33:27
  Speaker 7: know because the bullet's gonna be mashed all to hell,
• 2:33:30
  Speaker 7: and you might be able to figure out it was
• 2:33:33
  Speaker 7: a Carcano bullet due to its you know, makeup, but
• 2:33:39
  Speaker 7: you can never distinguish it from a seven sixty five
• 2:33:41
  Speaker 7: or a six and a half milimeter. You know, we're talking.
• 2:33:45
  Speaker 7: It's literally like one millimeter difference on the bullet size.
• 2:33:52
  Speaker 6: Huh, thank you for that.
• 2:33:58
  Speaker 7: So that'd be, you know, the smart thing to do
• 2:33:59
  Speaker 7: if you setting up Patsy it's supposed to be using
• 2:34:02
  Speaker 7: a Manliker carcano is to actually shoot with a better
• 2:34:06
  Speaker 7: man liquor carcano. Right with the word one that Oswald
• 2:34:10
  Speaker 7: actually ordered. He ordered a seven uh seven point three
• 2:34:15
  Speaker 7: five or seven point sixty five kr Kano and he
• 2:34:19
  Speaker 7: didn't get the one that he ordered. So if that's
• 2:34:22
  Speaker 7: the one they thought he was going to have, then
• 2:34:24
  Speaker 7: it does make sense that Hall would have that rifle.
• 2:34:26
  Speaker 7: If you know, if they were shooting using that rifle
• 2:34:31
  Speaker 7: in daily Plaza and that's not to say that that's
• 2:34:35
  Speaker 7: the only thing that might have been shot in Daly Plaza.
• 2:34:39
  Speaker 6: But of course.
• 2:34:42
  Speaker 7: Go ahead.
• 2:34:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and uh an old Twyman says, that's always been
• 2:34:48
  Speaker 6: a mystery. Why a three dollar rifle? Hard Grams, Yeah,
• 2:34:55
  Speaker 6: for a million dollar tag? That means like a million
• 2:34:59
  Speaker 6: dollar hit, Like, why use a three dollars rifle for
• 2:35:03
  Speaker 6: a million dollar.
• 2:35:05
  Speaker 7: Because that's what the patsy would order? Okay, the pats
• 2:35:09
  Speaker 7: He's not going to order, you know, some hundred dollars rifle. Yeah,
• 2:35:16
  Speaker 7: because this guy is supposed to be poor, has shitty job,
• 2:35:19
  Speaker 7: no money. What can he afford a shitty rifle? Yeah?
• 2:35:23
  Speaker 6: And I also I've always thought that there's something to
• 2:35:26
  Speaker 6: do with the Peacekeeper rifle, you know, the the carcandle Right,
• 2:35:38
  Speaker 6: like JFK obviously wanted ah didn't want war, right was
• 2:35:45
  Speaker 6: trying to stop war and nuclear war. So would it
• 2:35:48
  Speaker 6: be ironic if he was shot down with the with
• 2:35:54
  Speaker 6: the Peacekeeper rifle?
• 2:35:56
  Speaker 7: Right?
• 2:35:58
  Speaker 6: I don't know. I always thought that that that was interesting.
• 2:36:03
  Speaker 6: It would be symbolic and ironic. I guess, yeah, yeah,
• 2:36:08
  Speaker 6: I don't know. It's not a thing. So a couple
• 2:36:12
  Speaker 6: of things. I'm gonna randomly jump to here, Nold Twyeman,
• 2:36:16
  Speaker 6: we didn't get finished with that John Martino story, the
• 2:36:20
  Speaker 6: good looking guy on the couch? Rob, was he on
• 2:36:25
  Speaker 6: the couch? Further research has to be uh, it has
• 2:36:31
  Speaker 6: to be made here. But yeah, uh you have another
• 2:36:42
  Speaker 6: reference Jerry Patrick Hammy, I'm sorry.
• 2:36:47
  Speaker 7: I say nothing.
• 2:36:49
  Speaker 6: Yes, me either either. But it could have been on
• 2:36:53
  Speaker 6: the couch, says Nold Twyman. So whether it was on
• 2:36:56
  Speaker 6: the couch or in the living room, we do not know,
• 2:37:01
  Speaker 6: but hopefully we will find out. That is, of course fetal,
• 2:37:07
  Speaker 6: a little thing on the bottom that I want to include.
• 2:37:12
  Speaker 6: No Old Twyman ask Hardgraves, how did you learn how
• 2:37:14
  Speaker 6: to make bombs? Because, of course Hargraves was an electronics
• 2:37:21
  Speaker 6: demolitions expert. I'm sorry, did you go to bomb school
• 2:37:25
  Speaker 6: or did you learn from someone else? No? I learned
• 2:37:29
  Speaker 6: from a master. Interesting, what's that I learned from a master?
• 2:37:36
  Speaker 6: So Hard Graves isn't giving anything away here. Now they're
• 2:37:43
  Speaker 6: talking about Oswalt and Dirty Dick Rob. Dirty Dick comes in, yes,
• 2:37:50
  Speaker 6: of course always he comes in. Who fed Dick Russell
• 2:37:54
  Speaker 6: the information? Eming's brother said? Noel Twyman says, but is
• 2:38:01
  Speaker 6: their job question mark that Philippe was in Dallas at
• 2:38:04
  Speaker 6: the time. He did talk to Hartgraves and drops, yes,
• 2:38:08
  Speaker 6: but how many people knew that Heming's brother Roy and
• 2:38:13
  Speaker 6: maybe one other person Noel Twyeman Jerry knew it. He
• 2:38:17
  Speaker 6: told Dick Russell and Bishop of course, that is William Bishop,
• 2:38:24
  Speaker 6: that we had covered a little bit on last episode.
• 2:38:27
  Speaker 6: I know, Tiny sent us an email at that about
• 2:38:30
  Speaker 6: that and then quotations everyone talks at once aka chaos unintelligible. Hargraves,
• 2:38:43
  Speaker 6: people we actually met in Dallas at that time that
• 2:38:46
  Speaker 6: particular trip, those were the only people that we knew
• 2:38:50
  Speaker 6: Hemming's brother. So if Escalante, that is Fabian Escalante had
• 2:38:56
  Speaker 6: the G two, Cuban intelligence Service knew that. He either
• 2:39:02
  Speaker 6: knew it from torturing Felipe Vidal Santiago when he was
• 2:39:05
  Speaker 6: arrested on this nineteen sixty four mission, or because he
• 2:39:10
  Speaker 6: knew one of the people that they met was a
• 2:39:12
  Speaker 6: Castro agent. That's how they operate. Hargreaves says Escalante had
• 2:39:18
  Speaker 6: it from his own men and had it confirmed through
• 2:39:21
  Speaker 6: the torture. And of course it is alleged that Felipe
• 2:39:26
  Speaker 6: Videal Santiago was tortured in the hours before his death,
• 2:39:32
  Speaker 6: shortly after he was caught in the raid in Cuba.
• 2:39:38
  Speaker 6: So so Twyman says, you say you're speculating, Philippe aka
• 2:39:46
  Speaker 6: walkie talkie man aka dark complexed man. Are you speculating
• 2:39:51
  Speaker 6: or do you? Hargraves kind of deflects, that is not
• 2:39:55
  Speaker 6: for me to say, old Twyman. If this is Philippe,
• 2:40:00
  Speaker 6: then he was hardly innocent when he was there. If
• 2:40:03
  Speaker 6: he was doing something like this, he was hardly doing
• 2:40:05
  Speaker 6: it there just to be set up. Hargraves. He was
• 2:40:09
  Speaker 6: doing a part of something. He didn't know what it was. Twyeman,
• 2:40:15
  Speaker 6: he didn't know what it was. Question Mark Hartgraves No
• 2:40:20
  Speaker 6: Heming's brother comments, he was told to be there and
• 2:40:24
  Speaker 6: do this, Rory Hargraves. He went ahead and did his
• 2:40:30
  Speaker 6: job because by that time you were either doing your job.
• 2:40:35
  Speaker 6: When you see what it actually is, you're oh shit,
• 2:40:39
  Speaker 6: because you know who's behind ready to whack you out.
• 2:40:46
  Speaker 6: You know who's behind that fence with the Secret Service ID.
• 2:40:51
  Speaker 6: Laughs Again, this is hard Graves trolling Twyeman saying, you
• 2:41:00
  Speaker 6: don't know who's behind that picket fence right with a
• 2:41:04
  Speaker 6: Secret Service ID and Roy Hargraves was known to have
• 2:41:09
  Speaker 6: secret service, fake secret service credentials.
• 2:41:13
  Speaker 7: So but of course he couldn't be behind the fence
• 2:41:15
  Speaker 7: and be umbrella man at the same time. So he's
• 2:41:19
  Speaker 7: not talking about himself.
• 2:41:22
  Speaker 6: That is true. That, that is true. Although I don't know.
• 2:41:29
  Speaker 6: His laughing is a lot for me. I don't know
• 2:41:32
  Speaker 6: if he like gave it to someone or he's just
• 2:41:34
  Speaker 6: trolling and confusing people's hard things.
• 2:41:38
  Speaker 7: Because people said that they ran into a secret service
• 2:41:40
  Speaker 7: agent up at the knoll. Yeah.
• 2:41:44
  Speaker 6: And and in this document he mentions Robert Grodin, he
• 2:41:49
  Speaker 6: mentions the Oliver, he mentions Oliver Stone. So to your
• 2:41:54
  Speaker 6: point there, he is very aware of the current stream
• 2:42:01
  Speaker 6: JFK narratives. He's not, you know, he he's not ignorant
• 2:42:06
  Speaker 6: to that.
• 2:42:06
  Speaker 7: Well fun fact. Hemming and I think Hard Graves or
• 2:42:12
  Speaker 7: or Howard actually are in the movie JFK.
• 2:42:16
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, Well I think I think it was Hemming who.
• 2:42:20
  Speaker 7: Was the they play a shooter in the yeah yeah yeah.
• 2:42:26
  Speaker 6: And I think Howard and and Hard Graves were some
• 2:42:30
  Speaker 6: type of like consultants. Yes, yes, thank you sir.
• 2:42:34
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 2:42:35
  Speaker 6: And of course up that is the ultimate irony.
• 2:42:40
  Speaker 7: I mean, that is the ultimate fu. That's the ultimate
• 2:42:43
  Speaker 7: troll job.
• 2:42:46
  Speaker 6: I mean, these guys must have had such a laugh
• 2:42:49
  Speaker 6: after that.
• 2:42:49
  Speaker 7: Actual assassins be in the movie.
• 2:42:52
  Speaker 6: And directing it and consulting it. It's out of control.
• 2:43:00
  Speaker 7: So yes, Jack, that was pre internet, so it was
• 2:43:03
  Speaker 7: perfect time for them to do that and trol the
• 2:43:06
  Speaker 7: hell out of everybody. I mean that's crazy.
• 2:43:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and they were older at that point, right, They
• 2:43:12
  Speaker 6: didn't they didn't think there was any risk of being prosecuted.
• 2:43:16
  Speaker 7: That don't put a lot of these a lot of
• 2:43:19
  Speaker 7: these people in the movie, like Lighton Martin's you know,
• 2:43:22
  Speaker 7: he was in the movie as like an FBI agent.
• 2:43:25
  Speaker 7: He said, he put himI in the movie as an assassin.
• 2:43:27
  Speaker 7: I mean, it's just it's crazy, and the movie's full
• 2:43:31
  Speaker 7: of that stuff if if you really go looking for it,
• 2:43:35
  Speaker 7: I think it's amazing.
• 2:43:37
  Speaker 6: It is. And we've covered a couple other people in
• 2:43:41
  Speaker 6: knowledge that were that got some cameos I think would
• 2:43:47
  Speaker 6: be the right term for that, right and just ah,
• 2:43:53
  Speaker 6: the irony is of course ironic. So let me just
• 2:43:59
  Speaker 6: finish up this here because we are oh my god,
• 2:44:02
  Speaker 6: are we three hours and almost shit?
• 2:44:06
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't know if this is just gonna automatically
• 2:44:08
  Speaker 7: shut down at three hours in.
• 2:44:09
  Speaker 6: I don't know, all right, I'm done soon, so does so.
• 2:44:18
  Speaker 6: I think this is Twyman's like co author. So do
• 2:44:21
  Speaker 6: you think there's a decoy shooter in Oswalt's window? Unintelligible
• 2:44:27
  Speaker 6: the real shooters at the opposite end. But he isn't good.
• 2:44:30
  Speaker 6: He hits that is what Conley took all of his
• 2:44:33
  Speaker 6: shots from Hargraves. And this other discussion is unintelligible. You
• 2:44:40
  Speaker 6: know what, Hargreaves says, I've never believed that they wanted
• 2:44:43
  Speaker 6: this low nutting to begin with. This came up afterwards
• 2:44:49
  Speaker 6: because they then had to decide how the hell are
• 2:44:52
  Speaker 6: we going to cover this up? Everyone talks at once, Hargraves.
• 2:44:59
  Speaker 6: So there is a table full of men saying how
• 2:45:01
  Speaker 6: do we cover this up? And that snake specter Carlo
• 2:45:05
  Speaker 6: Inspector tells them how they can do it with this bullet.
• 2:45:09
  Speaker 6: Of course, he's talking about the magic bullet, Old Twiman.
• 2:45:12
  Speaker 6: They discovered when they looked at the Zubruwer film there
• 2:45:15
  Speaker 6: had to be so many shots and they needed a shell.
• 2:45:19
  Speaker 6: So the snake specter, Hargreve says, tells them how this
• 2:45:23
  Speaker 6: could have been We could make them all. We can
• 2:45:28
  Speaker 6: make them take this. It's acceptable. It buys us time.
• 2:45:31
  Speaker 6: Blah blah blah, and Hargreve says again, you know what,
• 2:45:43
  Speaker 6: I've never believed that they wanted this loan not thing
• 2:45:46
  Speaker 6: to begin with. And you know what, I'll agree with
• 2:45:49
  Speaker 6: him because I think I think the goal was to
• 2:45:54
  Speaker 6: get them to invade Cuba. They didn't want to go
• 2:45:57
  Speaker 6: to the loan noth thing. I think that was decided.
• 2:46:01
  Speaker 7: I wanted to make it look like procast the supporters
• 2:46:03
  Speaker 7: shot the president.
• 2:46:05
  Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, And and I think Larry in his book,
• 2:46:09
  Speaker 6: when he mentioned at the end of our interview with him,
• 2:46:12
  Speaker 6: said that Oswalt's expectation was to be flown out to
• 2:46:16
  Speaker 6: Cuba that night. So that kind of lines up with this.
• 2:46:21
  Speaker 6: And we will wait for part two of his Oswald
• 2:46:27
  Speaker 6: Puzzle interview with us when it comes out. And let's
• 2:46:34
  Speaker 6: see if I have any more. I do not, so
• 2:46:38
  Speaker 6: you know, I sent you the the link Rob hopefully
• 2:46:43
  Speaker 6: it is, or we'll put it in the description where
• 2:46:46
  Speaker 6: everyone can read that thirty nine page.
• 2:46:50
  Speaker 7: We're just can go down sixty three dot com.
• 2:46:54
  Speaker 6: And yeah, and go to documents and if you click
• 2:46:59
  Speaker 6: on Cuban Exiles and even though hard Graves wasn't a
• 2:47:05
  Speaker 6: Cuban technically, you'll see it's one of the first, it's
• 2:47:11
  Speaker 6: one of the two documents under hard Graves, and it's
• 2:47:15
  Speaker 6: very interesting. Shout out to Tango Down sixty three. They
• 2:47:20
  Speaker 6: have a ton of Cuban exile information, mister Wagner and
• 2:47:28
  Speaker 6: a fascinating read. So I encourage everyone who was interested
• 2:47:34
  Speaker 6: in this too to read that transcript, as I only
• 2:47:38
  Speaker 6: covered a couple of snippets of it. But wow, I
• 2:47:42
  Speaker 6: mean when we talk about the type of people that
• 2:47:46
  Speaker 6: could be involved in this rob I mean we see
• 2:47:49
  Speaker 6: a pattern here we do from last week to this.
• 2:47:52
  Speaker 6: People that have worked together, people that have been operational,
• 2:47:56
  Speaker 6: people that don't give hell about living or dying like
• 2:48:03
  Speaker 6: they are operational there risking their lives.
• 2:48:06
  Speaker 7: Are a tight knit unit. It doesn't take twenty guys
• 2:48:10
  Speaker 7: to pull this operation off. No, you know, you got
• 2:48:13
  Speaker 7: two guys boots on the ground, and you got at
• 2:48:19
  Speaker 7: least two guys behind the fence, and possibly some somewhere else,
• 2:48:27
  Speaker 7: maybe one other location. Yeah. I mean, you know when
• 2:48:35
  Speaker 7: you put all this stuff together and you lay it
• 2:48:36
  Speaker 7: out like hopefully we have for you and explain to
• 2:48:40
  Speaker 7: you why we think that these guys were involved on
• 2:48:44
  Speaker 7: the ground. Hopefully it allows you to put some of
• 2:48:50
  Speaker 7: these puzzle pieces together, like you can look at these
• 2:48:52
  Speaker 7: guys individually, you know, but you can also figure that
• 2:48:58
  Speaker 7: a couple of these guys with the plan because they
• 2:49:01
  Speaker 7: couldn't do the government. The Attorney General Robert Kennedy was
• 2:49:08
  Speaker 7: going after these guys, violating the Neutrality Act when the
• 2:49:11
  Speaker 7: CIA was trying to get them to do these things right,
• 2:49:16
  Speaker 7: to do their dirty work for them, and then RFK
• 2:49:19
  Speaker 7: put handcuffs on them, and that pissed them off too.
• 2:49:22
  Speaker 7: Not only did the Bay of Pigs piss them off,
• 2:49:23
  Speaker 7: but the Neutrality Act pissed them off, you know. And
• 2:49:28
  Speaker 7: these guys were in the right position to know big
• 2:49:32
  Speaker 7: funding people who would be more than willing to pay
• 2:49:35
  Speaker 7: for this operation to happen. Although ideologically these guys were
• 2:49:41
  Speaker 7: already in one hundred percent whether they're getting paid or not,
• 2:49:44
  Speaker 7: because this is just what they do. They want. The
• 2:49:49
  Speaker 7: government wouldn't allow them to go do what they wanted
• 2:49:51
  Speaker 7: to do to Cuba and Castro, so they figured they
• 2:49:56
  Speaker 7: turned the operations inward like we've always heard before, and
• 2:49:59
  Speaker 7: it doesn't take a gigantic CIA tangled web of superspised
• 2:50:03
  Speaker 7: to figure all this out, or to sponsor it, or
• 2:50:07
  Speaker 7: to direct it, or to order it. It just takes
• 2:50:12
  Speaker 7: a couple of disgruntled mercenary soldiers of fortune that figure
• 2:50:20
  Speaker 7: that they would rather do this kind of shit than
• 2:50:22
  Speaker 7: be at home with their families and get a real
• 2:50:24
  Speaker 7: job and settle down and act like a real husband
• 2:50:27
  Speaker 7: and not have ten step kids and real kids and
• 2:50:31
  Speaker 7: four wives or no wives, or whatever the case may be.
• 2:50:37
  Speaker 7: You know, this was more important to them than family,
• 2:50:43
  Speaker 7: and that tells you everything you need to know for
• 2:50:47
  Speaker 7: them to go jobless and live this life, choose this
• 2:50:53
  Speaker 7: kind of hard life where you're basically driving across the country,
• 2:50:58
  Speaker 7: begging from money.
• 2:50:58
  Speaker 6: From people imprisoned in Cuba.
• 2:51:02
  Speaker 7: Yes, going to prison for your beliefs. Thank you, Paula,
• 2:51:09
  Speaker 7: Thank you. You're the best. You're the best.
• 2:51:13
  Speaker 6: Paula is the best. I got it.
• 2:51:18
  Speaker 7: You guys are on fire. Thank you, Bungle. We try,
• 2:51:21
  Speaker 7: We try. These are questions that we always get asked, so,
• 2:51:24
  Speaker 7: you know, because we do this show on a variety
• 2:51:27
  Speaker 7: of topics, and it's very entertaining and interesting to dive
• 2:51:32
  Speaker 7: into some of the lesser known aspects of the Kennedy assassination,
• 2:51:36
  Speaker 7: you know, the little dark corners where the cobwebs lie
• 2:51:38
  Speaker 7: and the dead cockroaches are. But to actually lay it
• 2:51:44
  Speaker 7: out for you of who we think was in Daly
• 2:51:47
  Speaker 7: Plaza pulling off this operation, and to lay that out
• 2:51:55
  Speaker 7: in a manner that is understandable and comprehendible, and why
• 2:52:02
  Speaker 7: we think that, using logic, using documents, using pictures, using profiles,
• 2:52:07
  Speaker 7: using testimony, using interviews, using documents, this is the best
• 2:52:14
  Speaker 7: case scenario that we have at the moment. Of course,
• 2:52:17
  Speaker 7: things can change, things can always change. And we're not
• 2:52:21
  Speaker 7: saying that these were the only four prime suspects that
• 2:52:25
  Speaker 7: were in dally Plaza, Okay, It's just that these are
• 2:52:30
  Speaker 7: the ones that we have the best evidence for that
• 2:52:32
  Speaker 7: we can really actually likely put in dally Plaza in
• 2:52:40
  Speaker 7: November on the twenty second in nineteen sixty three. That
• 2:52:45
  Speaker 7: just happens to be when JFK was killed. And that's
• 2:52:51
  Speaker 7: a lot. It's very hard to do, very hard to do.
• 2:52:57
  Speaker 7: Are you run into things like Michael murt you know,
• 2:53:01
  Speaker 7: being in Dallas and then being kicked out of Dallas
• 2:53:04
  Speaker 7: the next day, which is very interesting too, uh, you
• 2:53:08
  Speaker 7: know it, or somebody using his name, whether it was
• 2:53:12
  Speaker 7: Renee sutra or whatever. Those things are interesting, you know,
• 2:53:18
  Speaker 7: and there could be a more complicated cover story or
• 2:53:23
  Speaker 7: plot to this whole thing than we even know about
• 2:53:28
  Speaker 7: various other patsies. You know, maybe this guy makes sense,
• 2:53:33
  Speaker 7: or somebody screwed up and now this guy has to
• 2:53:36
  Speaker 7: just you know, it's just whoever planned this was very,
• 2:53:42
  Speaker 7: very good because they got away with it, okay, and
• 2:53:47
  Speaker 7: they got away with it for a very long time.
• 2:53:51
  Speaker 6: So yeah, yeah, And the people people we described were
• 2:53:58
  Speaker 6: in that lifestyle were risking their lives on a weekly,
• 2:54:05
  Speaker 6: monthly basis, as we have proven in the past two episodes.
• 2:54:08
  Speaker 6: So you know, we're not saying these are one hundred
• 2:54:11
  Speaker 6: percent of people, but they are, at our stage in
• 2:54:16
  Speaker 6: our research, the most likely, right.
• 2:54:21
  Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, you know, because I mean, these guys knew
• 2:54:24
  Speaker 7: that it was going to be a big operation, that
• 2:54:26
  Speaker 7: it would be important to plan, plan, plan, plan, if
• 2:54:33
  Speaker 7: you're going to get away with this. It's one thing
• 2:54:35
  Speaker 7: to do this as a suicide operation knowing you're going
• 2:54:38
  Speaker 7: to get caught, but to actually do it with the
• 2:54:40
  Speaker 7: intention of getting away, that's a whole different level of planning.
• 2:54:46
  Speaker 7: And it worked. So this is the kind of.
• 2:54:50
  Speaker 6: It wasn't their first operation. It was not their first operation.
• 2:54:54
  Speaker 7: Whoever did it was not kindergarten for these guys. You know,
• 2:54:57
  Speaker 7: these guys have graduated college. You know, they know what's up,
• 2:55:01
  Speaker 7: and you know they had a lot of great minds
• 2:55:05
  Speaker 7: around them to feed off of and you know and tells, yeah,
• 2:55:12
  Speaker 7: major generals to bounce ideas off of. So you know,
• 2:55:18
  Speaker 7: it's not out of the realm with possibility. There's other
• 2:55:21
  Speaker 7: people involved, whether it be to help plan this thing,
• 2:55:24
  Speaker 7: help fund this thing. You know. Uh, there's just so many,
• 2:55:30
  Speaker 7: so many things to take into consideration here. And so
• 2:55:34
  Speaker 7: hopefully you guys enjoyed the show. And uh, we're coming
• 2:55:38
  Speaker 7: up on three and like I said, I don't know
• 2:55:41
  Speaker 7: if and look we thinks, man, we got fifty three
• 2:55:44
  Speaker 7: people in here still Joe, three hours and we're doing
• 2:55:46
  Speaker 7: pretty damn good. Everyone for hanging Thanks, thank you everybody
• 2:55:50
  Speaker 7: for hanging out with us again and going through this again.
• 2:55:54
  Speaker 7: And uh, we'll be back with you next Wednesday, uh
• 2:56:00
  Speaker 7: for a preview of episode number three hundred and twenty one. So,
• 2:56:05
  Speaker 7: without further ado, Joe, let's do our workaround for Dino singing.
• 2:56:14
  Speaker 7: So South, we got DNA, we got Dino not dancing Dino,
• 2:56:21
  Speaker 7: but we got dance again. Thanks everybody for hanging out
• 2:56:36
  Speaker 7: with us. We had a blast. You guys rock, you
• 2:56:41
  Speaker 7: guys making show. Thanks for all the time limit.
• 2:56:44
  Speaker 13: The greatest lies are told in the name of truths,
• 2:56:46
  Speaker 13: for hanging crimes are committed in the name of justicans.
• 2:56:49
  Speaker 13: The quotation is Jim Garrison's. It could be used for
• 2:56:52
  Speaker 13: him or against him in this strange case.
• 2:56:55
  Speaker 6: Good night.
• 2:57:00
  Speaker 2: Mhm hm.
• 2:57:03
  Speaker 7: Age yeow.
• 2:57:11
  Speaker 6: As this is peace. Guys, have a great weekend and
• 2:57:20
  Speaker 6: we will see you next week.