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Full Episode - Trump Looks For Off-Ramp After Threatening War Crimes + How The Salt Lake Tribune Reinvented Itself & Local News · The Chuck ToddCast

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Speaker 1: vary and rates may vary. Well. Hello thereon, Welcome to
1:48
Speaker 1: another episode of the Chuck Podcast, the April eighth edition.
1:52
Speaker 1: For me to say April eighth means something to me.
1:54
Speaker 1: I'll let you guys figure out what that means. But
1:58
Speaker 1: here we are it is. I am taping this on
2:03
Speaker 1: Tuesday evening before the expiration of Trump's self impost deadline
2:09
Speaker 1: where he is threatening to eradicate the entire Iranian civilization.
2:18
Speaker 1: This is not hyperbolic words from me. This is just
2:21
Speaker 1: me quoting his truth social post. It is one of
2:25
Speaker 1: those It's interesting with what he did. And I say
2:30
Speaker 1: this because he's by the time you're hearing this, he's
2:33
Speaker 1: likely taken one of the exit ramps that are out there,
2:36
Speaker 1: either either talks or continuing. So he extends the deadline.
2:41
Speaker 1: He accepts the two week premise, or maybe it's a
2:44
Speaker 1: two day premise, or maybe it's ongoing talks. Because he's
2:47
Speaker 1: backed himself into a corner. I mean, he is. And
2:50
Speaker 1: I've used this metaphor below if you before, but if
2:52
Speaker 1: you're a fan of the Blazing Saddles movie, he's the
2:55
Speaker 1: sheriff who pulls the gun on himself and he's like, hey,
2:58
Speaker 1: be careful, I might chew. And that's the equivalent of
3:04
Speaker 1: what he did. But what's every You know, it's funny
3:09
Speaker 1: every time Trump escalates his rheteric and we think, oh
3:12
Speaker 1: my god, I can't believe he said that. And the fact,
3:14
Speaker 1: I guess the good news is is that we can
3:16
Speaker 1: still be shocked by him right the day that we
3:21
Speaker 1: are no longer shocked or surprised. I mean, it is, Oh,
3:26
Speaker 1: everybody gulped when they felt I don't want to put
3:30
Speaker 1: put words in everybody's mouth, but people that I've interacted
3:35
Speaker 1: with the reaction in various circles, both super political circles
3:41
Speaker 1: and less political circles, are like, oh my god, what
3:43
Speaker 1: is he saying? So the point is is that plenty
3:47
Speaker 1: of people still found themselves shocked by the president's language
3:51
Speaker 1: and the president's words, and can we just step back
3:54
Speaker 1: and say that's actually a good thing? You know, we
3:58
Speaker 1: should hope that when an American president, speaking on the
4:02
Speaker 1: behalf of the American people that elected him, speaks in
4:05
Speaker 1: that way, that we take umbrage with it, we get
4:07
Speaker 1: shocked by it, we're uncomfortable with it. Now, what's sad
4:11
Speaker 1: is it feels like there were more everyday Americans who
4:15
Speaker 1: were upset, perturbed, uncomfortable by what he said than actual
4:20
Speaker 1: elected officials. It is funny, like this comment about eliminating
4:26
Speaker 1: a civilization. You know, really, I think and I count
4:31
Speaker 1: myself among them who felt a bit numb. You're sort
4:33
Speaker 1: of like, yeah, that's his predictable rhetoric. But you're like,
4:37
Speaker 1: good God, But I assume that the you know, reaction
4:43
Speaker 1: in the condemnation would be kind of muted, and it was.
4:47
Speaker 1: I mean, we've heard as of this taping, exactly two
4:51
Speaker 1: elected Republicans have expressed their discomfort with this. One represents
4:57
Speaker 1: Texas's first congressional district. His name's Nathaniel Moran. You may
5:01
Speaker 1: not have heard of him, many of you. He's not
5:04
Speaker 1: somebody who tries to shove himself in front. And there's
5:07
Speaker 1: your political theatrics members of Congress, and then there's your
5:11
Speaker 1: those that, like, you know, just do the basic work.
5:14
Speaker 1: He strikes me as one of those because he's not
5:17
Speaker 1: shoving himself in your face with his political theatrics. And
5:22
Speaker 1: he called the president's comments abhorrent, and he goes I
5:25
Speaker 1: wholeheartedly disagreed with comments about wiping out an entire civilization.
5:28
Speaker 1: I'm sorry he has said that because I think that
5:31
Speaker 1: distracts from what was an initially inappropriate mission. How we
5:35
Speaker 1: protect the lives of the innocent is just as important
5:37
Speaker 1: as how we engage the enemy. I'm sure Congressman Moran
5:44
Speaker 1: from Texas never thought he would have to lecture a
5:47
Speaker 1: Republican any president to say something like that, but I'm
5:50
Speaker 1: sure he assumed a Republican president would probably be more
5:54
Speaker 1: respectful of the military. Right. I say this not to
5:58
Speaker 1: stereotype anything, but this is the stare teotype that many
6:01
Speaker 1: on the right live in, and it is, you know, obviously,
6:05
Speaker 1: was very disturbing. Then there's Senator Murkowski, who won't be
6:09
Speaker 1: surprising that she speaks out in creditization. She's many times
6:12
Speaker 1: one of the few Republican senators that will do that.
6:15
Speaker 1: She's more of an independent these days than she is
6:17
Speaker 1: a Republican. But she wrote, the president's latest threat is
6:22
Speaker 1: an affront to the ideals of our nation. Excuse me,
6:27
Speaker 1: let me read this again. The president's latest threat is
6:29
Speaker 1: an affront to the ideals our nation has sought to
6:31
Speaker 1: uphold and promote around the world for nearly two hundred
6:34
Speaker 1: and fifty years. The comment cannot be excused away as
6:37
Speaker 1: an attempt to gain leverage and negotiations with Iran. So
6:44
Speaker 1: I think there are plenty of other elected Republicans that
6:47
Speaker 1: are just as outraged, and just as concerned, and just
6:50
Speaker 1: as disgusted by this comment as these two. Most of
6:53
Speaker 1: them have chosen not to say anything, Some perhaps out
6:56
Speaker 1: of fear of political retribution, Some maybe they're rationalizing them
7:01
Speaker 1: by saying we're in the middle of a war. I'll
7:03
Speaker 1: criticize them when we're done. I don't want to send
7:05
Speaker 1: a mixed message to the military. But you know, when
7:10
Speaker 1: the President speaks like someone who's comfortable committing violations of
7:14
Speaker 1: the Geneva Conventions translation commit a war crime, I think
7:19
Speaker 1: it is the time you have to speak out, and
7:21
Speaker 1: it is the time you have to say something. Because
7:24
Speaker 1: our men and women in uniform took the same oath
7:29
Speaker 1: of office that elected senators and members of Congress stand,
7:34
Speaker 1: and they have to uphold the Constitution, and they represent
7:38
Speaker 1: the moral fabric of this nation in how they carry
7:41
Speaker 1: out their duties. And many of them may be uncomfortable
7:45
Speaker 1: carrying out an order that they believe is illegal or
7:50
Speaker 1: unconstitution which is basically the same thing. And maybe they
7:56
Speaker 1: don't want to commit a war crime or fear that
7:58
Speaker 1: they've been ordered to commit one. And you can say, well,
8:02
Speaker 1: there's technically no governing authority on this, because the United
8:06
Speaker 1: States is not a signer to the International Criminal Corps.
8:14
Speaker 1: Don't we want to be the good guys? Aren't we
8:17
Speaker 1: the ones? I thought those that you know, it's the
8:22
Speaker 1: state sponsor of terrorism that doesn't care about rules of war.
8:27
Speaker 1: That's what I've been told by our leaders, and yet
8:31
Speaker 1: we are sounding and behaving like some two bit terrorist thug.
8:38
Speaker 1: I mean, the only thing missing in Trump's statement was
8:41
Speaker 1: him wearing a bag over his head and standing in
8:44
Speaker 1: front of a video camera making a threat to some
8:48
Speaker 1: captured American. Reminded me of some Isis video back in
8:53
Speaker 1: the day, or those Al Qaeda videos that Bin Laden
8:57
Speaker 1: used to release to create the illusion that he was
9:00
Speaker 1: more powerful than he actually was. I mean, it's sad
9:06
Speaker 1: and gross that you feel like our president's behaving like
9:11
Speaker 1: people that we thought were our enemies, or he's behaving
9:14
Speaker 1: worse and he's giving aid and comfort in propaganda to
9:21
Speaker 1: the supposed enemy. I mean, it is the point is
9:27
Speaker 1: this is you know, it's funny. It's like I don't
9:30
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm not gonna sit here and say, ah,
9:32
Speaker 1: this is the one, this is the one that breaks
9:34
Speaker 1: the coalition, this is the one that fractures the coalition.
9:39
Speaker 1: But I can tell you the anecdotes I'm hearing all
9:42
Speaker 1: day to day, whether it's from family members, whether it's
9:45
Speaker 1: from non political friends. Everybody heard this comment. Everybody read
9:50
Speaker 1: this comment, and a lot of people are who are
9:54
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with it, even amongst people that are his supporters.
9:58
Speaker 1: And anecdotes are are are worth just that they're an anecdote.
10:02
Speaker 1: They don't necessarily represent election results. They don't necessarily represent
10:07
Speaker 1: a tea leaf fourth making a bet on Calshier, Palin
10:10
Speaker 1: market on. But it's notable. And as I've said to
10:17
Speaker 1: you before, you know, I think presidencies end before the
10:19
Speaker 1: presidents themselves know it. The public loses faith, public loses
10:25
Speaker 1: confidence a lot sooner than the presidential term ends. And
10:28
Speaker 1: I can, like I said, pretty much every presidency ends
10:32
Speaker 1: before January twentieth, of the of the of the month
10:36
Speaker 1: after the election year, in some form or another. And
10:39
Speaker 1: it's possible. This is this is the exclamation point and
10:43
Speaker 1: sort of the we are no longer at the end
10:46
Speaker 1: of the beginning of the Trump era. We are at
10:48
Speaker 1: the beginning of the end of the Trump era. Doesn't
10:51
Speaker 1: mean it isn't going to be messy and ugly as
10:53
Speaker 1: it goes, but it's the fractures there. The other development
10:58
Speaker 1: in the last few hours is the release of this
11:04
Speaker 1: very juicy book excerpt from New York Times reporters Maggie
11:07
Speaker 1: Haberman and Jonathan Swan and the piece is basically how
11:12
Speaker 1: Trump got talked into the Iran War. The piece you
11:17
Speaker 1: should read it. It's in the New York Times now
11:20
Speaker 1: you should read a word for word. It is really
11:22
Speaker 1: important and just one little observation. So they've got this
11:25
Speaker 1: book coming out called Regime Change, essentially Trump, you know,
11:29
Speaker 1: the Trump President, the Imperial Trump Presidency. I think it is.
11:33
Speaker 1: And it's funny about the excerpt is that it's so
11:37
Speaker 1: clear Bob Woodward created a blueprint for all of us.
11:40
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, and when I wrote my Obama book,
11:42
Speaker 1: I would do this in a few you know, there's
11:44
Speaker 1: a formula, right, You've got to when you recreate a
11:49
Speaker 1: scene that people of a conversation that's happening, you make
11:52
Speaker 1: sure you place everybody in the seat and let give
11:55
Speaker 1: people a visual of what they're seeing. And Woodward and
11:57
Speaker 1: Bernstein did this so well, and all the presidents made
12:00
Speaker 1: and in the final days, and it's been a staple
12:02
Speaker 1: of Woodward's books, and I could you know, and they're
12:06
Speaker 1: not alone all of these books. Like I said in
12:09
Speaker 1: my Obama book, I did it a few times. And
12:11
Speaker 1: it was done here by Haberman and Swan and I
12:15
Speaker 1: think it's more it's a reminder that Bob Woodward created
12:18
Speaker 1: a blueprint for writing presidential books, not necessarily writing in general,
12:23
Speaker 1: but certainly for writing for politics. But the most fascinating
12:28
Speaker 1: thing about the excerpt is you basically come away with
12:32
Speaker 1: there were only two people who thought this was a
12:34
Speaker 1: good idea, bib Net Yahoo and Donald Trump. That's it.
12:42
Speaker 1: The story begins with a semi secret meeting with the
12:46
Speaker 1: Prime Minister of Israel coming in with this plan that
12:51
Speaker 1: he believes can take out the entire Iranian regime, and
12:59
Speaker 1: obviously he takes it. If he could do it on
13:01
Speaker 1: his own, he wouldn't be coming to the president looking
13:03
Speaker 1: for help, right. He knows he can't do it without
13:05
Speaker 1: the United States, so he wants to talk Trump into it.
13:09
Speaker 1: And Trump didn't need a lot of talking into it.
13:11
Speaker 1: He's itching for this one, and that's made clear in
13:14
Speaker 1: this reporting, and it's been It's one thing he's been
13:18
Speaker 1: consistent on. Yes, he ran on no wars, but he's
13:20
Speaker 1: always been a bit more belligerent about Iran. Right. The
13:23
Speaker 1: irresponsible decision to get out of the nuclear deal was
13:26
Speaker 1: just one part obsession with just anything Obama was for.
13:30
Speaker 1: He had to be against So there was a little
13:31
Speaker 1: bit of that, but the other part was he was
13:35
Speaker 1: trying to force a confrontation. And then the last part
13:37
Speaker 1: that matters probably more in all that he you know,
13:42
Speaker 1: it is a fact that the Iranians were trying to
13:44
Speaker 1: assassinate him. And you know this isn't just a made
13:50
Speaker 1: up story. This was intelligence that was shared during the campaign.
13:54
Speaker 1: That's why there was actually there needed to be extra
13:56
Speaker 1: security for him. But you know, whether it was him,
14:00
Speaker 1: Mike Pompeo and John Bolton who were basically fought was
14:03
Speaker 1: against them by the Iranian regime and assassinations has always
14:07
Speaker 1: been one of their asymmetric warfare devices. So a little
14:10
Speaker 1: bit this is just personal revenge for him, which is
14:13
Speaker 1: always a dangerous thing and a leader when they're motivated
14:17
Speaker 1: by personal animosity rather than what's in the best interests
14:19
Speaker 1: of the United States. Because let's just be honest, this
14:24
Speaker 1: war is not in the best interests of the United States.
14:27
Speaker 1: Getting rid of the Iranian regime may eventually be in
14:29
Speaker 1: the best interest in the United States, don't get me wrong,
14:32
Speaker 1: but this war of choice at this time, in this moment,
14:37
Speaker 1: has made all of us less safe, has made the
14:41
Speaker 1: world less safe and has increased the likelihood of a
14:45
Speaker 1: global recession, and that in itself has all sorts of
14:51
Speaker 1: fallout that also makes us less safe, less secure. So
14:58
Speaker 1: it's clearly a mistake. And the most fascinating thing about
15:02
Speaker 1: this is how the entire excerpt in The Times about
15:06
Speaker 1: how Trump got talked into this, all it does is
15:09
Speaker 1: include points where advisors to Trump essentially tried to push
15:17
Speaker 1: him away. Whether it's Marco Rubio, who would not endorse
15:24
Speaker 1: a war that involved regime change, who didn't think it
15:26
Speaker 1: was possible, but he said, if the goal is to
15:28
Speaker 1: eradicate their missile system, maybe he could get behind that.
15:32
Speaker 1: Or there was General Cain, chairman of the Joint Chiefs,
15:35
Speaker 1: who took a decidedly different approach than Mark Millie did.
15:38
Speaker 1: As Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. He chose not to
15:40
Speaker 1: tell him whether it was a good idea or a
15:42
Speaker 1: bad idea. He just simply let him know what it
15:44
Speaker 1: would take and how hard it would be. But he
15:48
Speaker 1: never wanted to tell the President no. They all tried
15:54
Speaker 1: to get around to yes. And you read this excerpt,
15:59
Speaker 1: Trump's all ready on an island in his own west wind.
16:03
Speaker 1: It appears there's nobody around him that thought this was
16:06
Speaker 1: a good idea, not even his very pugnacious mouthpiece Stephen Chung.
16:15
Speaker 1: And I'm sure they're all sucking up to Trump right now,
16:17
Speaker 1: going I didn't leak it. You know this, trust me.
16:21
Speaker 1: This Haberman Swan piece is going to make Trump nuts.
16:25
Speaker 1: He is going to be obsessed with. And there is
16:27
Speaker 1: one person who's going to be accused of leaking because
16:30
Speaker 1: the piece itself feels like it was the person who
16:34
Speaker 1: comes out smelling the best. If you were to put
16:38
Speaker 1: this in odor terms, it's Jadie Vance and he who
16:45
Speaker 1: shaped it is usually, you know, with the person that
16:48
Speaker 1: comes out the best in any excerpt is always going
16:50
Speaker 1: to get fingered as a source. And I don't want
16:52
Speaker 1: to play this game with Maggie and Jonathan because I
16:54
Speaker 1: hated it when it was done to me. Your sources
16:56
Speaker 1: are your sources. And as much as people think that
17:01
Speaker 1: we take our sources and we'll beat Sweeten here, beat
17:04
Speaker 1: Sweetened there. You know it is what it is. Now
17:05
Speaker 1: are you going to it is? You do your best?
17:08
Speaker 1: You don't, you know? You do try to protect your sources.
17:11
Speaker 1: And in defense of Maggie and Jonathan on this one
17:14
Speaker 1: and those that want to say, oh, this was Vance.
17:17
Speaker 1: It's made clear that in the most important meeting where
17:20
Speaker 1: Trump's talked into this by net Yahoo, Vance is not
17:22
Speaker 1: even in the room. So clearly they have another source
17:25
Speaker 1: that isn't JD. Vance. But that isn't the way everybody
17:33
Speaker 1: in Trump world is going to absorb this. It is
17:39
Speaker 1: all about half the peace is about various ways that
17:43
Speaker 1: Vance thought this was a bad idea, didn't think this
17:48
Speaker 1: would go well, thought that there was too high a risk,
17:50
Speaker 1: too high cost, et cetera. Some are going to read
17:56
Speaker 1: that and say that's politically convenient for him, but the
18:00
Speaker 1: piece also notes that he would support the president whatever
18:02
Speaker 1: decision he makes. Now, it now explains if you remember,
18:05
Speaker 1: and I emphasize this at the time, Jade Vance has
18:09
Speaker 1: always gone out of the way that the president thought
18:11
Speaker 1: this was the best course of action. He's never said
18:14
Speaker 1: he endorsed this course of action, and Marco Rubio has
18:17
Speaker 1: been very careful with his words. Frankly, everybody who has
18:20
Speaker 1: spoke on behalf of this war really except for like
18:22
Speaker 1: guys like Lindsay Graham, who does does who does seem
18:26
Speaker 1: like the guy and the guy who rides the missile
18:30
Speaker 1: and doctor Strangelove. You know whoo right? I think I
18:36
Speaker 1: think Lindsay has gone full has gone gone gotten full
18:41
Speaker 1: on Doctor Strangelove. There. But Trump is already on an
18:48
Speaker 1: island on this war, completely even among his own staff.
18:53
Speaker 1: And it's everybody's name checked in there. Susie Wiles uncomfortable,
18:57
Speaker 1: Stephen Chung uncomfortable, Marco Ruby not for it all. Jd
19:01
Speaker 1: Vance the most emphatic against General Kine, the head of
19:08
Speaker 1: the CIA, who basically said the presumptions that the Israelis
19:13
Speaker 1: were making were bullshit. I think is the formal word
19:17
Speaker 1: he used. So what's striking about this piece is that
19:24
Speaker 1: I've been concerned that the President didn't get enough of
19:29
Speaker 1: the negative side, and I still am not convinced that
19:31
Speaker 1: he did. But this piece seems to indicate that plenty
19:35
Speaker 1: of folks raised concerns about the unintended consequences of starting
19:42
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Speaker 1: Taking out the Supreme Leader, in his mind, would be
21:45
Speaker 1: the start of regime change. And what was interesting is
21:50
Speaker 1: that apparently the first thing General Caine said to Trump
21:53
Speaker 1: when Trump asked him to respond about the proposal after
21:56
Speaker 1: the Israelis left the room was will they do this
21:58
Speaker 1: all the time? They overhype what they think they can
22:00
Speaker 1: do because they desperately want to talk American presidents into
22:04
Speaker 1: doing this. What's amazing about BBE is that Bbe's been
22:08
Speaker 1: doing this with American presidents now for thirty odd years,
22:13
Speaker 1: where he's been trying to convince an American president to
22:15
Speaker 1: basically be his wingman, right, be his military form to
22:21
Speaker 1: deal with Iran or to deal with and every American president.
22:25
Speaker 1: You know, he really always sort of pushes the envelope
22:28
Speaker 1: and pushes the envelope, and every American president until Donald
22:31
Speaker 1: Trumps has gotten to a point where they basically have
22:35
Speaker 1: told BB, hey, f you, buddy, I'll give you an
22:40
Speaker 1: anago Bill Clinton after his first meeting in June of
22:44
Speaker 1: ninety six, Clinton reportedly was just stunned by Netta, whose
22:48
Speaker 1: brazen tone and apparently Clinton has thent to do his staff.
22:54
Speaker 1: After Netta, who delivered what Clinton felt was a condescending
22:57
Speaker 1: lecture in the Middle East in the Oval Office, he said,
22:59
Speaker 1: who the fuck does he think he is? Who's the
23:02
Speaker 1: fucking superpower here? That was Bill Clinton to BB Natyah
23:05
Speaker 1: who now let me go to George W. Bush. Bush
23:09
Speaker 1: reportedly viewed Natyah, who as someone who was overly focused
23:12
Speaker 1: on his own political survival. I think it's a pretty
23:15
Speaker 1: fair assessment of him. After a meeting with nat Yahoo
23:20
Speaker 1: was then just a finance minister, Bush allegedly told his staff,
23:24
Speaker 1: I don't like it when people come in here and
23:25
Speaker 1: try to tell me what I should think. Sounds familiar, right,
23:28
Speaker 1: Democratic president says it about Bib. Here's George W. Says
23:31
Speaker 1: it about BIB. I get The one difference is he
23:37
Speaker 1: didn't drop an F bomb. Barack Obama. The most famous
23:43
Speaker 1: quote attributed to him was we all know that bbnat Now,
23:48
Speaker 1: who's a pain in the ass, And this was in
23:53
Speaker 1: one of the Woodward books, Doubled Down. Obama apparently made
23:56
Speaker 1: this remark during a campaign meeting in twenty twelve, but
23:59
Speaker 1: there was another other one in twenty eleven with Nicholas Sarkoz,
24:02
Speaker 1: the then president of France, caught in a hot mic
24:05
Speaker 1: and Sarkoz said I can't stand him. He's a liar,
24:08
Speaker 1: and Obama replied, you're tired of him. I have to
24:11
Speaker 1: deal with him every day. Third straight president that BB
24:15
Speaker 1: tried to talk into stuff and wouldn't do it. Joe Biden,
24:26
Speaker 1: he is arguably has the longest relationship with BB, goes
24:28
Speaker 1: back forty years. And while he used to say in public, BB,
24:31
Speaker 1: I love you, but I don't agree with the damn
24:33
Speaker 1: thing you say, you'd say that in his private frustrations.
24:37
Speaker 1: But according to Woodward's book War, Biden got so frustrated
24:42
Speaker 1: in early twenty twenty four with BB's conduct of the
24:46
Speaker 1: war that Biden supposedly shouted at him BB, what the
24:52
Speaker 1: fuck you're a liar? After feeling as if BIB was
24:56
Speaker 1: telling him one thing and doing another. The point is,
25:00
Speaker 1: this is not the first time that Bbe's gone to
25:02
Speaker 1: an American president presented some drummed up intelligence creating a hack,
25:09
Speaker 1: this sort of false scenario. Oh, this will be easy.
25:12
Speaker 1: We can take him out here, take him out there. Right.
25:14
Speaker 1: He's been trying to talk an American president to get
25:20
Speaker 1: more aggressive going back ever since he first stepped foot
25:26
Speaker 1: into office in Israel. He just finally found one that
25:31
Speaker 1: would be a sickaphan and or was in total alignment,
25:35
Speaker 1: or was basically as risk averse. See as it's not
25:39
Speaker 1: Israel's economy, I guess he's worried about and he and
25:41
Speaker 1: remember BB's not worried about the American economy. I just
25:47
Speaker 1: think it's notable that somehow we've had I just gave
25:50
Speaker 1: you examples of four presidents, the four living ex presidents,
25:55
Speaker 1: who all have one thing in common when it comes
25:57
Speaker 1: to dealing with BB Netnah, he's a pain in the
25:59
Speaker 1: app and he's always pushing, and you gotta you gotta
26:03
Speaker 1: tell him no, You gotta you gotta deal with him
26:05
Speaker 1: like a child. Every once in a while, you gotta
26:10
Speaker 1: tell him no. Look, he's he his political power is
26:15
Speaker 1: derived from making Israelis think he's the only one keeping
26:18
Speaker 1: them secure from the from from the Iranians or from
26:21
Speaker 1: whoever's trying to get Israel, and he is ruled by
26:25
Speaker 1: that fear. He has gotten back into office by essentially
26:29
Speaker 1: saying that his political opponents are not are not tough enough.
26:33
Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's sort of I think in some
26:36
Speaker 1: ways Bibe embodies that Jack Nicholson character and a few
26:41
Speaker 1: good men. You may not like me, you may not
26:44
Speaker 1: want me at your parties, but you want me on
26:46
Speaker 1: that wall. That sort of business. And there's clearly something
26:50
Speaker 1: to it, because here's a guy who's simultaneously disliked by
26:53
Speaker 1: a majority of Israelis and yet keeps finding his way
26:56
Speaker 1: back into power. Now they have a parliamentary system and
26:59
Speaker 1: all these differferent ways he gets in there. If this
27:02
Speaker 1: were a true you know, open election democracy, you know,
27:06
Speaker 1: and every one person, one vote, without the whole parliamentary system, there,
27:11
Speaker 1: Phoebe's not the leader and it probably isn't that close.
27:20
Speaker 1: But I'll tell you what this does. You want to
27:22
Speaker 1: talk about really poisoning the American relationship with Israel. This
27:26
Speaker 1: is going to really poison the relationship, because what this
27:29
Speaker 1: story does is reinforces the notion there's a lot of
27:33
Speaker 1: people who believe Israel has been dictating American foreign policy
27:38
Speaker 1: for thirty five forty years. Well that's not true. But
27:42
Speaker 1: Israel did dictate policy for this foreign policy for this year.
27:47
Speaker 1: The Gulf States were also on board too. We know
27:49
Speaker 1: the Saudis at this point, Sadi's ande, I think now
27:53
Speaker 1: wish they had backed another horse, because they kind of
27:54
Speaker 1: know they've got an erratic guy here. Whatever is going
27:59
Speaker 1: to happen, he's going to leave the place in worse
28:01
Speaker 1: shape than when things started. But the weakness, the fact
28:08
Speaker 1: that Trump is led around by the nose. He doesn't
28:12
Speaker 1: trust his own intelligence agencies. He trusts Israel's intelligence agency
28:17
Speaker 1: more than he trusts his own. Now we know actually
28:20
Speaker 1: that that is true, right, because he has an in
28:23
Speaker 1: his head that our intelligence agencies were out to get him,
28:26
Speaker 1: because they were the ones that were saying, hey, guess
28:28
Speaker 1: what Putin's. Putin is trying to help Trump get ellect it,
28:32
Speaker 1: which was true. What was unproven was whether there was coordination.
28:39
Speaker 1: But what is an undisputed fact is that Putin did
28:42
Speaker 1: interfere in our elections. On behalf of Donald Trump. But
28:49
Speaker 1: all of that part should be disturbing. It won't be enough.
28:53
Speaker 1: It is funny that in some ways the story, this
28:57
Speaker 1: New York Times story, in many ways should be more explosive,
29:02
Speaker 1: but it will be the ridiculous rhetoric that he used
29:05
Speaker 1: that may have turned into more of a tipping point
29:08
Speaker 1: for a lot of voters. Now let's get back to
29:16
Speaker 1: reality here. He's in a box on this war. It
29:22
Speaker 1: is a huge box. He's got to get the Straight open,
29:27
Speaker 1: and he's now in a trap because at this point,
29:31
Speaker 1: control of the Strait is more important than a nuclear
29:33
Speaker 1: weapon to this Iranian regime. So he's going to have
29:37
Speaker 1: to either kowtow to what's remaining of this Iranian regime
29:43
Speaker 1: and acknowledge that they have control over the world's economy
29:45
Speaker 1: twenty percent of the world's economy, really the whole they're
29:48
Speaker 1: holding the world economy hostage by having controlled the Straight,
29:52
Speaker 1: or he puts in ground troops because I know he
29:57
Speaker 1: wants other countries to do this, but hey, this is
30:00
Speaker 1: you know, he ran into the chin. He's the bull,
30:03
Speaker 1: went into the china shop, destroyed all the china and
30:06
Speaker 1: once somehow everybody else to pay for it. It sucks
30:18
Speaker 1: that he's doing this in the name of the United States.
30:24
Speaker 1: You know, we are no longer the high ground. He
30:30
Speaker 1: is advocating war crimes, even if he doesn't commit one,
30:33
Speaker 1: and just doing that is going to fuel terrorist anger
30:38
Speaker 1: and hate at us for another generation and it will
30:42
Speaker 1: turn into justification and rationale. Well, that American president, he
30:47
Speaker 1: didn't care about rules of war. Like I said, the
30:58
Speaker 1: good news here and I always have people already asking me, hey,
31:03
Speaker 1: help me, help me find the good news in all
31:05
Speaker 1: of us. Good news is that there is that. I
31:09
Speaker 1: think the majority of Americans are offended by this. If
31:12
Speaker 1: you follow the polling, they're talking about how the unpopular
31:17
Speaker 1: this war is. It's not as if he has brainwashed
31:20
Speaker 1: the public to think that this is a good idea.
31:29
Speaker 1: And in a in a functioning democracy, and I still
31:32
Speaker 1: believe we're a functioning democracy. We express our opinions at
31:39
Speaker 1: the ballot box. And I will tell you this is
31:43
Speaker 1: you know, I have told you good gets better, bad
31:46
Speaker 1: gets worse. Well, we are in a bad gets worse
31:48
Speaker 1: moment for him. I mean he is. He is turning
31:51
Speaker 1: a bad election cycle into a potentially a catastrophic one
31:54
Speaker 1: for his party. The question is when do Republicans fully
31:58
Speaker 1: see it. I think there's a bunch of them that
31:59
Speaker 1: are not nervos. I think the fact that you when
32:02
Speaker 1: you read this piece and you see JD. Vance running
32:05
Speaker 1: away from this issue as fast as he can. Although,
32:10
Speaker 1: by the way, is sitting vice president you want to
32:12
Speaker 1: talk about. If you're confused about whether America wears the
32:16
Speaker 1: white hat of the black hat, I understand why you have,
32:19
Speaker 1: because a sitting vice president of the United States just went
32:24
Speaker 1: to a country with a wanna be dictator in Victor
32:27
Speaker 1: Orbon campaigned on behalf of this want to be dictator,
32:32
Speaker 1: Victor RoboN, a want to be dictator that has the
32:35
Speaker 1: support of Vladimir Putin, And is what does he do?
32:39
Speaker 1: He goes on foreign soil campaigns for this undemocratic figure.
32:46
Speaker 1: Again he brags about Victor RoboN, brags that he is
32:50
Speaker 1: an illiberal democrat, right, an illiberal believer in democracy, meaning
32:57
Speaker 1: he doesn't believe in democracy. He believes in some form authoritarianism.
33:02
Speaker 1: He's rigging his elections and trying to try to secure
33:07
Speaker 1: a win. He's probably not going to do that. Chad's
33:11
Speaker 1: over there. The Vice preside the United States is trashing
33:14
Speaker 1: our allies in Europe inserting himself again. I'm old enough
33:20
Speaker 1: to remember when Republicans were disgusted when foreign leaders in
33:29
Speaker 1: Europe were essentially hoping that we'd get a new president
33:35
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty. I think Vance himself accused Zelensky of
33:44
Speaker 1: being a surrogate of the Biden campaign when he came
33:48
Speaker 1: over here and went to I think it was a
33:49
Speaker 1: web munitions factory in Pennsylvania. So if you're offended by that,
33:57
Speaker 1: why do the same thing in another country and using
34:00
Speaker 1: American prestige? The United States is on the same side
34:04
Speaker 1: as Putin in the Hungarian elections. That's not us finding
34:11
Speaker 1: common ground with a rival. That's our leader betraying small
34:18
Speaker 1: the democratic values and betraying our values here in the
34:23
Speaker 1: United States of America. That's a full on betrayal. And
34:27
Speaker 1: you know that story is going to be, like you know,
34:29
Speaker 1: the eighteenth most important story of the last twenty four hours,
34:33
Speaker 1: frankly understandably. So, like I said, the good news is,
34:40
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are outraged and uncomfortable.
34:44
Speaker 1: The bad news is the next president's got a gigantic
34:47
Speaker 1: mestic cleanup, and it's going to perhaps now be a
34:52
Speaker 1: generation before America is trusted on the world stage. Look,
34:56
Speaker 1: we're the necessary country. I just sat down with David Milliban,
35:03
Speaker 1: who's whose chair of the International Rescue Committee, you know,
35:07
Speaker 1: whose foundation was to try to rescue people who were
35:10
Speaker 1: being systematically having their rights taken away from them in
35:16
Speaker 1: Germany during the rise of Hitler. And with America retreating
35:23
Speaker 1: from the world order, from leader of the of the
35:26
Speaker 1: world and refusing refugees, gutting us a I d no
35:34
Speaker 1: longer giving humanitarian aid in the numbers that we've given.
35:42
Speaker 1: We're in this. He called it the new world disorder.
35:46
Speaker 1: And it is in disorder that strong supposed strong men
35:51
Speaker 1: like Putin and She have the advantage because there are
35:55
Speaker 1: no rules, there are no morals or ethics. It's just
35:58
Speaker 1: king of the jungle business. That's what Donald Trump wants
36:02
Speaker 1: to be. He wants to be a king, a dictator,
36:06
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it. I think he wants
36:08
Speaker 1: to be a king. I can't. I have no respect
36:11
Speaker 1: for royalties, all right, I just I will. I can't.
36:15
Speaker 1: I think the whole thing is a bunch of bullshit
36:18
Speaker 1: dressed up their dictatorships, dressed cosplaying. Okay, every monarch is
36:25
Speaker 1: just a dictator with a nice title. All right, there's
36:29
Speaker 1: benevolent dictators, all right. I think the King of Jordan
36:34
Speaker 1: is a benevolent authoritarian leader. But let's make no mistake,
36:40
Speaker 1: these are not small d democrats. So I don't I
36:48
Speaker 1: sort of have I have so little interest in the
36:52
Speaker 1: crown and any of that garbage. I'm sorry. I know
36:55
Speaker 1: some of people very close to me like this stuff.
36:57
Speaker 1: I just think you're like, it's just some sort of
37:01
Speaker 1: man you've read way too many Disney books or something.
37:03
Speaker 1: I don't know. But the whole thing, it's certainly culturally
37:08
Speaker 1: been interesting, and there's interesting history connected to these various rulers.
37:13
Speaker 1: But let's remember that's why we revolted from the king.
37:17
Speaker 1: That's why we decided to have the people decide when
37:21
Speaker 1: we went to war, because we didn't like it when
37:24
Speaker 1: these dictators dressed up as kings and queens would drag
37:28
Speaker 1: their peasants to fight wars that they decided they had
37:32
Speaker 1: to fight. That's why we thought it best that if
37:42
Speaker 1: the people representing those that actually have to fight the
37:46
Speaker 1: president's wars of choice ought to have a say before
37:51
Speaker 1: they have to go fight that war of choice. Anyway,
37:59
Speaker 1: here's what I'm hoping. I'm hoping you've heard this monologue.
38:02
Speaker 1: Why do I say that, because if the president follows
38:11
Speaker 1: through on his various threats that he's made on social media,
38:15
Speaker 1: I have a feeling I'm retaping. Will have already had
38:19
Speaker 1: to retape this, and you've heard another monologue at this point.
38:25
Speaker 1: But he's going to take one of the exit ramps.
38:27
Speaker 1: Whether it's two weeks, two days, two hours, whatever it is.
38:31
Speaker 1: He's going to mess around the market a little bit,
38:35
Speaker 1: find it, but he's gonna you know, the question is,
38:38
Speaker 1: can can he get a deal that opens up the
38:41
Speaker 1: Strait without humiliating the United States and our leadership and
38:47
Speaker 1: without empowering what's left of this Iranian regime. Welcome to
38:52
Speaker 1: a box that he put himself, and he literally said,
38:54
Speaker 1: I'm going to put myself in a corner and then
38:57
Speaker 1: put bricks. It's not a box anymore. It's turning into
39:00
Speaker 1: a brick house. And I don't know how he's going
39:03
Speaker 1: to get out of it. There are it is bad option,
39:06
Speaker 1: A bad option, B bad option. See the least of
39:09
Speaker 1: the bad options might be limited ground troops to open
39:12
Speaker 1: up the straight and use that as much leverage as
39:16
Speaker 1: you can. But it probably means an active military campaign
39:19
Speaker 1: for months, not weeks, not days, and that might be
39:23
Speaker 1: the best case scenario. All right, I want to pivot
39:26
Speaker 1: a little bit. I want to talk about something. Talk
39:31
Speaker 1: about this. I'm covering up my address here. So there's
39:38
Speaker 1: a mailer that I just got this week. This is
39:43
Speaker 1: I've lived in the state of Virginia. This is for
39:44
Speaker 1: that redistricting referendum. And it's just a little what this
39:51
Speaker 1: is a just a truncated version of what I wrote
39:54
Speaker 1: about on substack. But this Washington posted a poll about
40:01
Speaker 1: the redistricting referendum, and with it the initial the first
40:08
Speaker 1: ratings of Abigail Spamberger's time as Governor's been governor for
40:11
Speaker 1: about three months, a little less than that. I don't
40:14
Speaker 1: think she said one hundred days yet. And if you
40:16
Speaker 1: recall a few times last year, I wondered aloud, I
40:21
Speaker 1: know I did it with Solissa, I said, boy, I said, boy,
40:24
Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I don't envy Spaanberger having to
40:26
Speaker 1: start her term in a very partisan way that the
40:29
Speaker 1: first thing she's got to deal with is this redistricting agenda.
40:32
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's going to go. Well, Well,
40:35
Speaker 1: guess what it ain't going well. So the Post does
40:39
Speaker 1: this poll. The yes on redistricting is narrowly ahead. It's
40:44
Speaker 1: going to win, narrowly. It's fifty two forty seven. It's
40:47
Speaker 1: going to win because northern Virginia is the most Trump
40:52
Speaker 1: resistant area of the country, because most people here either
40:56
Speaker 1: are victims of Trump or seen the damage firsthand, maybe
41:01
Speaker 1: worked at the FDA and saw the crazy that came
41:04
Speaker 1: into there. So the point is is that this area
41:06
Speaker 1: is just on fire about Trump and how his presidency
41:10
Speaker 1: has just you know, brought a wrecking ball in the
41:12
Speaker 1: wrong you know, I know some people wanted a wrecking
41:15
Speaker 1: ball to Washington, but did it in all the wrong ways.
41:17
Speaker 1: Literally wrecked the wrong buildings, you know, wrecked the wrong agencies,
41:20
Speaker 1: like you know, it is the mentality might have been necessary,
41:24
Speaker 1: but it was, you know, all of the wrong targets.
41:28
Speaker 1: And so it's going to pass. And the ad campaign
41:32
Speaker 1: smartly has stopped putting Abigail Spamberger and Barack Obama as
41:37
Speaker 1: the spokespeople and has gone back to making this about Trump,
41:41
Speaker 1: and it's a more honest ad campaign. It's almost persuasive. Basically,
41:46
Speaker 1: they started this, it's going to end up taking your
41:49
Speaker 1: rights away. So this is why we're doing this. It's
41:51
Speaker 1: at least more honest than the messaging that had been
41:54
Speaker 1: there before. But it ain't going down well with voters.
41:58
Speaker 1: And you see it in the approval ratings of Abigail
42:01
Speaker 1: spamberg Er. She's sitting at forty seven forty six. It
42:05
Speaker 1: is the lowest job rating any Virginia governor has had
42:08
Speaker 1: in the first six months in office since The Washington
42:11
Speaker 1: Post started measuring this regularly, going back to George Allen's
42:15
Speaker 1: governorship in ninety three, Jim Gilmour was more popular in
42:18
Speaker 1: ninety seven, after you know, you know, after getting elected
42:22
Speaker 1: in ninety seven, Mark Warner after getting elected in oh one,
42:24
Speaker 1: Tim Kaine after electing five, Bob McDonald after getting elected
42:29
Speaker 1: int o nine, Terry mcauff after getting elected in thirteen,
42:32
Speaker 1: Ralph Northam after getting elected in seventeen, Glenn Youngkin. Literally
42:37
Speaker 1: every single one of her predecessors since George Allen all
42:42
Speaker 1: had a higher approval rating. The fact of the matter
42:44
Speaker 1: is there's a huge chunk of independent voters that certainly
42:49
Speaker 1: have ideological leanings, but don't like partisan garbage. They don't
42:55
Speaker 1: like the partisanship, And this is the slice of voters
42:58
Speaker 1: that I don't think Democrats respect enough from their coalition.
43:02
Speaker 1: When Democrats have succeeded in the Trump era, it's when
43:04
Speaker 1: they have been the less partisan option, where they have
43:09
Speaker 1: been the quote unquote enormies. They've been the one whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
43:13
Speaker 1: This goes too far, that's extreme. And then this is
43:19
Speaker 1: it's epitomized in one of the vote quotes from one
43:26
Speaker 1: of the participants in the poll in the Washington Post
43:30
Speaker 1: pole and he's supporting the referendum, but he said this,
43:35
Speaker 1: We're trying to do something wrong to get something right,
43:37
Speaker 1: and that bothers me. This is the swing voter in America.
43:44
Speaker 1: These are the voters that have been vacillating. They don't
43:47
Speaker 1: like either party. They certainly have a predisposition of what
43:52
Speaker 1: side of the aisle they'd probably liked in charge, and
43:54
Speaker 1: they wanted slightly bigger government, slightly smaller government. But what
43:58
Speaker 1: they really don't like is the partisan ship in the extremism.
44:01
Speaker 1: And how do we know this right? Donald Trump has
44:04
Speaker 1: never won as an incumbent. Right, He's won in sixteen
44:08
Speaker 1: and twenty four when he got to run against the system,
44:11
Speaker 1: when he had to be the man defend the system
44:14
Speaker 1: the twenty eighteen midterms, in his twenty twenty reelection, and
44:17
Speaker 1: now again here in twenty twenty six, voters are like, now,
44:20
Speaker 1: we don't like it, right, they don't want it. He's
44:24
Speaker 1: two partisan. What didn't they like about Biden? He came
44:30
Speaker 1: in he promised to govern one way like Spamberger, and
44:33
Speaker 1: then he came in to me immediately was partisan and
44:36
Speaker 1: it defined him in all the wrong ways. And that's
44:39
Speaker 1: what's happening to her. And I feel for her in
44:42
Speaker 1: this because literally there's one part of the' there's a
44:46
Speaker 1: one chunk of voters who are going, wait a minute,
44:48
Speaker 1: you didn't campaign as this. You campaign sort of as
44:50
Speaker 1: a Democrat who was uncomfortable being a partisan. And then
44:54
Speaker 1: you've got the party people who are like, hey, Governor Spamberger,
44:57
Speaker 1: you've got to lead here. You've got to get this
45:00
Speaker 1: referendum over the finish line. Hence these mailers that I'm
45:06
Speaker 1: sure she's had to pay for in the TV ad campaign,
45:09
Speaker 1: where it's just, you know, they really blew up her brand,
45:13
Speaker 1: and I think they burned up political capital of Barack
45:15
Speaker 1: Obama's unnecessarily, And I go back to the facts here
45:20
Speaker 1: without doing a thing. Democrats are going to pick up
45:23
Speaker 1: two seats in the Virginia map if the old map
45:25
Speaker 1: stays right now it's six'. Five there are two, seats
45:28
Speaker 1: the first and the second that'll probably both flip in this,
45:30
Speaker 1: environment and maybe, another but definitely the first in the
45:33
Speaker 1: second small chance of the of THE i think the old.
45:37
Speaker 1: FIFTH i Know democrats think they have a ten to one,
45:40
Speaker 1: map but let's say it ends up only nine to.
45:42
Speaker 1: Two but let's say it is ten to, One so
45:44
Speaker 1: you were going to have an eight to three without doing,
45:46
Speaker 1: anything and you're basically blowing up the brand of the,
45:50
Speaker 1: governor blowing up the brand of The Democratic party for two,
45:53
Speaker 1: seats losing all this high ground with these swing voters
45:58
Speaker 1: that are exhausted for. PARTISANSHIP i know you've heard Me
46:04
Speaker 1: rando about this, before but we now have data to
46:06
Speaker 1: back up that this is exactly what's. Happened and this
46:09
Speaker 1: is a. Reminder virginia is, blue but it ain't navy.
46:13
Speaker 1: Blue it's very light. Blue it's bluish. Purple it's really Anti,
46:25
Speaker 1: trump but it is not necessarily Anti, republican but it
46:30
Speaker 1: is Anti, trump AND i think that's the voter and
46:38
Speaker 1: this is Why i'm you know Why i'm convinced somebody
46:42
Speaker 1: is going to break through in a third party candidacy
46:43
Speaker 1: or an independent, candidacy because you're not gonna see voters
46:47
Speaker 1: are going to get tired of, rewarding of punishing one
46:50
Speaker 1: set of, partisans electing another set only to have them
46:54
Speaker 1: governed two partisan lee and having to push them. Out and,
46:59
Speaker 1: again this is not about being. Centrist this is about
47:04
Speaker 1: being so consumed with keeping power that you sort of
47:07
Speaker 1: take your eye off the, ball which is just keep
47:11
Speaker 1: the trains running on time and just do what you
47:15
Speaker 1: say you were going to, do lower costs and help
47:17
Speaker 1: people live their. Lives that's all people wanted right, now
47:22
Speaker 1: save the transformation when you have some super. Majorities all,
47:27
Speaker 1: right this episode my interview, guest It's. Wednesday i've been
47:31
Speaker 1: promoting local news. Day i've got a terrific case study for.
47:34
Speaker 1: You it's A Salt Lake. Tribune it's their executive. Editor
47:39
Speaker 1: they just recently thanks to The huntsman, Family, yes That huntsman,
47:46
Speaker 1: family who help them become you, know get out of you,
47:51
Speaker 1: know basically get out of a private equity disaster that
47:54
Speaker 1: they were in and become a nonprofit and essentially a
47:57
Speaker 1: new independent news. Organization it's been around for over one
48:00
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty. Years so this is a case Where
48:04
Speaker 1: i've given you some small. Startups, well this is a
48:07
Speaker 1: case is a legacy paper who has gone independent and
48:11
Speaker 1: it's a great story AND i think you will enjoy this.
48:14
Speaker 1: Conversation of, course after the, Interview i'll have my new
48:19
Speaker 1: top five list for the week And i'll take some.
48:21
Speaker 1: Questions so with, that let's sneak in a. Break this
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Speaker 1: too am a customer. Well as part of my participation
50:05
Speaker 1: in Promoting local News day and we are Now local
50:09
Speaker 1: News day is coming. Up it is lets. Away by
50:12
Speaker 1: the time you hear my next, interview and one of
50:14
Speaker 1: my goals has been to have different versions of independent
50:20
Speaker 1: media that are out there in the local. Newsphere we've got,
50:23
Speaker 1: startups The Sahan, journal the and and the promotion and
50:28
Speaker 1: the and the CONVERSATION i had with the found with
50:30
Speaker 1: the with the person that runs the. Journal we've had
50:34
Speaker 1: the folks From Deep South today And Warwick saban and
50:39
Speaker 1: about dealing with those southern news. Deserts my guest today
50:44
Speaker 1: is in a different. Place It's Laurene. Augustus she is
50:47
Speaker 1: THE ceo and executive editor of The Salt Lake. Tribune
50:50
Speaker 1: and some of you may, Say Salt Lake tribune isn't
50:52
Speaker 1: that legacy. Media they've been around a. While they have,
50:54
Speaker 1: been the brand has been around a long. Time The
50:57
Speaker 1: Salta tribune has reimagined itself as it has gone fully.
51:01
Speaker 1: Independent it is and in, Fact lauren's going to tell
51:04
Speaker 1: the story here in a, minute but it is an
51:06
Speaker 1: example of a quote unquote legacy media company essentially reimagining
51:11
Speaker 1: itself in the independent space in this twenty first century
51:16
Speaker 1: new revenue, model new revenue, stream the not for profit
51:19
Speaker 1: status in all the different ways that you can be
51:24
Speaker 1: more efficient with your resources while still trying to be
51:27
Speaker 1: a robust news. Organization and, Look utah is not a
51:34
Speaker 1: thankfully is not a local news desert per. Se so
51:38
Speaker 1: this is a in Salt lake is a community THAT
51:42
Speaker 1: i think is going to is very supportive of local.
51:45
Speaker 1: Institutions BUT i think this is a model worth, learning
51:49
Speaker 1: especially if you're at a smaller news organization that may
51:53
Speaker 1: be owned by a parent company that doesn't care about you.
51:55
Speaker 1: Anymore And i'm not going to name, names but we
51:57
Speaker 1: all know who those companies. Are where you realize if,
52:00
Speaker 1: boy this brand has a lot of station, locally if
52:02
Speaker 1: we could just break, out break through and go from.
52:06
Speaker 1: There so with that my little intro, there Remember Local
52:09
Speaker 1: News Day april, ninth it is an awareness, day and,
52:12
Speaker 1: yes The Salt Lake tribune is a part of. This
52:14
Speaker 1: let me Bring lauren. In, lauren welcome to the. Toodcast
52:16
Speaker 1: nice to meet.
52:17
Speaker 2: You, Thanks, chuck happy to be. Here.
52:20
Speaker 1: First HOW'D i do in the introduction? There and fill
52:23
Speaker 1: in the blanks here BECAUSE i do think this is different.
52:26
Speaker 1: Right i've featured brand new startups like The Nevada independent
52:30
Speaker 1: or e sabing what they've been doing With Deep south,
52:31
Speaker 1: today AND i know you're familiar with all these players
52:33
Speaker 1: The Sahan, journal which is covers immigrant communities In. Minneapolis
52:38
Speaker 1: you're a legacy, Publication Salt Lake, tribune and theory has
52:41
Speaker 1: been around, decades but you're a new independent. Organization.
52:45
Speaker 2: Explain, yeah that's, Right. Todd so next week or two weeks,
52:49
Speaker 2: Time april, fifteenth we will celebrate one hundred and fifty
52:52
Speaker 2: five years of, publication which is pretty. Wild and we
52:55
Speaker 2: still do publish a print, product which folks sometimes, forget
52:59
Speaker 2: which is, okay that's, fine but we do have some
53:02
Speaker 2: loyal print readers out. There and, yeah for many years
53:05
Speaker 2: The tribune was family owned and then it was transitioned
53:09
Speaker 2: to a hedge. Fund and SO i worked at The
53:11
Speaker 2: trip as a cub reporter way back in the day
53:13
Speaker 2: in the early, aughts and we, had you, know hundreds
53:15
Speaker 2: of folks in our. NEWSROOM i ran a high school
53:18
Speaker 2: sports desk that said fifty people out to games On friday.
53:21
Speaker 1: Nights and in the head this pause there Is i'm
53:25
Speaker 1: obsessed with local sports being the gateway to gluing communities back.
53:29
Speaker 1: TOGETHER a fifty person desk for high school? Sports, yeah
53:34
Speaker 1: wow was? That and by the, way had that shrunk
53:37
Speaker 1: compared to what it was ten years. Earlier that's a good.
53:40
Speaker 2: QUESTION i joined The trib in two thousand and, four
53:43
Speaker 2: And i'm not sure THAT i could speak to what
53:45
Speaker 2: it looked like prior to that in great. Detail some
53:48
Speaker 2: of them were, freelancers of, course you, know who were
53:51
Speaker 2: calling in on their course right from you, know the
53:54
Speaker 2: McDonald's parking lot where there Was Wi, fi so that
53:56
Speaker 2: we could get the two graphs we, needed so we
53:58
Speaker 2: could get them in the paper and then you, know
54:00
Speaker 2: get the paper out to the. Printer but, YEAH i.
54:03
Speaker 2: Do i'm with you on that. CHECK i think you,
54:05
Speaker 2: know it's interesting And i'm sure we'll get into. This
54:07
Speaker 2: so many of today's stories are. Difficult so many of
54:10
Speaker 2: today's stories are. Depressing and we find that when we
54:13
Speaker 2: write about the new bakery that's just opened around the,
54:17
Speaker 2: corner or the high school sports athlete who's done something,
54:20
Speaker 2: tremendous you, know or today we have a story on
54:23
Speaker 2: a bull rider that's that's being incredibly well. Received it's
54:27
Speaker 2: a story but how he chose HIS lds faith for a,
54:30
Speaker 2: while went on a mission and then came back to bull.
54:32
Speaker 2: Riding and those kinds of stories do create, community AND
54:36
Speaker 2: i think that's really important for any, nonprofit be one
54:39
Speaker 2: that's one hundred and fifty five years old or one
54:42
Speaker 2: that's you, know five or ten years. Old so, anyways
54:45
Speaker 2: The tribune extracted from a hedge fund by a guy
54:48
Speaker 2: Named Paul, huntsman who may be a familiar name to
54:51
Speaker 2: some of your. Listeners is that the father of brother
54:54
Speaker 2: of brother of got?
54:55
Speaker 1: It?
54:55
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah and it was it was dad's. Ask, essentially
55:00
Speaker 2: the patriarch of The huntsman family really wanted to see
55:03
Speaker 2: The tribune be on better, footing and So Paul huntsman
55:07
Speaker 2: extracted the. Trip he ran the trip as a publisher
55:10
Speaker 2: for a few, years and the family gave a, lot
55:13
Speaker 2: a lot to The tribune and a lot to the,
55:14
Speaker 2: community and at some POINT i think the thinking, was, well,
55:18
Speaker 2: gosh you, know we'd really love some help, here and
55:20
Speaker 2: So paul petitioned THE. Irs The tribune became the first
55:24
Speaker 2: major metro to receive nonprofit designation from THE irs in twenty.
55:28
Speaker 2: Nineteen and at that point in, time we focused on. Rebuilding.
55:33
Speaker 2: Right there was no governing, Board we didn't know how
55:36
Speaker 2: to accept a. Donation we asked someone or excuse, me
55:38
Speaker 2: someone asked us if they could donate in, crypto and
55:41
Speaker 2: that like took week for us to figure, out so
55:44
Speaker 2: we had to reshape a lot of how we. Operated
55:47
Speaker 2: we did reduce print days at that. Time we went
55:49
Speaker 2: from seven days a week to. One now we're at
55:51
Speaker 2: two days a. Week and, then you, know after a
55:54
Speaker 2: period of months and it took us, time we had
55:56
Speaker 2: the bandwidth to turn to the journalism itself and we
56:00
Speaker 2: stopped doing some, things and we started to do some
56:02
Speaker 2: things differently in that we stopped chasing the same. STORIES
56:06
Speaker 2: i would say THAT tv we're chasing at the, time
56:09
Speaker 2: so you, know the five car pile, up the crime
56:11
Speaker 2: story on the west side of maybe you, know deleterious
56:16
Speaker 2: impact to the, community but not long lasting in terms
56:18
Speaker 2: of sense. Making right from a journalistic, perspective we doubled
56:23
Speaker 2: down on. Accountability we start doing solutions oriented, reporting which
56:27
Speaker 2: was new for, us and that we have this big
56:29
Speaker 2: problem out here In. Utah it's just out my window
56:31
Speaker 2: to the, left and that our, lake our Great Salt,
56:33
Speaker 2: lake is drying. Up and so we built something called
56:37
Speaker 2: The Great Salt Lake. Collaborative it includes over a dozen
56:39
Speaker 2: news organizations and it includes institutions that are focused on
56:43
Speaker 2: how we put more water back into the. Lake and
56:45
Speaker 2: all that reporting is shared across news, organizations SO, tv public,
56:49
Speaker 2: radio legacy, media digital, startups they all participate in This
56:55
Speaker 2: Great Salt lake collaborative and they're all able to pull
56:57
Speaker 2: each other's, reporting all focused on, again how do we
57:00
Speaker 2: more water back into the. Lake we also launch something
57:03
Speaker 2: called The Yutah News, collaborative so we share our reporting
57:06
Speaker 2: from the state capitol with some of the smallest news
57:10
Speaker 2: organizations in the. State you, know they're weekly, papers they
57:13
Speaker 2: don't have. Websites they might have a reporter who's also
57:16
Speaker 2: accepting ads and who's also delivering the paper.
57:19
Speaker 1: Right right, now it's one, man they, is and they
57:22
Speaker 1: can't get.
57:22
Speaker 2: Up to the, capital right so we'll provide that service for.
57:25
Speaker 2: Them and so all along the, WAY i think over
57:28
Speaker 2: the last six to seven years has been an, evolution,
57:31
Speaker 2: right how do we continue to grow into our status
57:34
Speaker 2: as a. Nonprofit we call ourselves a one hundred and
57:37
Speaker 2: fifty year old. Startup and next month we will remove the.
57:41
Speaker 2: Paywall so we are a legacy news org that's asked
57:44
Speaker 2: people to, subscribe you know for, decades, right subscribe to,
57:48
Speaker 2: print subscribe to. Digital and In may we will take
57:51
Speaker 2: that paywell down for sltrip dot, com so anyone will
57:54
Speaker 2: be able to read stories on sltrip dot com without
57:57
Speaker 2: having to pay for the privilege of doing. So and
58:00
Speaker 2: that's because we believe that the news should be accessible to. Everyone.
58:03
Speaker 2: Right it's taken us a few years to get, there,
58:05
Speaker 2: right but independent journalism is a. Right it is not a.
58:10
Speaker 2: Luxury and at a time when misinformation is s threading
58:13
Speaker 2: faster than, ever expanding access is it just. Important we
58:17
Speaker 2: believe that it's. Necessary so let's.
58:20
Speaker 1: Talk about the. Revenue the various look whether you're a
58:23
Speaker 1: for profit or. Nonprofit I'M i, AM i, Am i'm
58:28
Speaker 1: not agnostic on this, issue But I'm i'm not MEANING
58:32
Speaker 1: i think, ULTIMATELY i think you want to be in
58:35
Speaker 1: a for profit situation because if you're relying on, donors
58:39
Speaker 1: you never know when you hit donor, fatigue and that's
58:41
Speaker 1: an uncomfortable position to be. In but you could have
58:43
Speaker 1: market fatigue, Too so this is not AND i What
58:48
Speaker 1: AND i think the fact is some solutions make more
58:51
Speaker 1: sense in some, communities like you don't you don't need
58:53
Speaker 1: to be nonprofit IN. Dc you can be a for.
58:55
Speaker 1: Profit there's plenty of revenue in the reader reader. System
58:59
Speaker 1: SO i do accept the premise that everything is different
59:02
Speaker 1: in different. Ways, so but having a variety of revenue
59:06
Speaker 1: streams is what most news organizations. Need you, KNOW i
59:10
Speaker 1: had A i've really spent the last few years trying
59:13
Speaker 1: to learn this space. Better is there a better way
59:16
Speaker 1: to scale local news things like? This AND i ran
59:20
Speaker 1: into a colleague one person who, said you know who
59:22
Speaker 1: was working on an effort to help news organizations buy
59:25
Speaker 1: the buildings that they produced the product. In, again because
59:28
Speaker 1: what happened with when when these private equity firms scooped
59:31
Speaker 1: up both you, know particularly. Newspapers for newspapers had some
59:36
Speaker 1: of the best real estate in downtowns all across the,
59:38
Speaker 1: country so they grabbed all this great real estate and,
59:42
Speaker 1: essentially you, know didn't care about the product. Itself is
59:47
Speaker 1: that what happened to you? Guys how much did the
59:49
Speaker 1: private equity ownership extract out of the news? Organization how
59:56
Speaker 1: hollowed out were you when the huntsman's came in to
59:59
Speaker 1: try to rescue what was?
1:00:00
Speaker 2: Left, yeah, well there were two factors of play for.
1:00:04
Speaker 2: Us one was certainly the hedge. Fund the other was
1:00:06
Speaker 2: a joa with the. Church so THE Lds church owns.
1:00:10
Speaker 1: The Deseret, news The Deseret, news Right Desert.
1:00:13
Speaker 2: News and, YES i.
1:00:15
Speaker 1: Didn't realize that was A. Joa, yeah it was for
1:00:17
Speaker 1: joint operator for those we're speaking a little bit a
1:00:20
Speaker 1: lot OF i had to do a paper on this
1:00:23
Speaker 1: in college about these joint operating agreements That detroit And.
1:00:26
Speaker 1: Seattle it was an antitrust thing and all this stuff
1:00:30
Speaker 1: and how there's always been some legal there's actually been
1:00:33
Speaker 1: some legal vagary here about how how legal are these
1:00:36
Speaker 1: joint operating and agreements as it, is but a lot
1:00:39
Speaker 1: of two newspaper. Towns for the newspapers to, survive they
1:00:42
Speaker 1: basically started to share back operations like printing presses and
1:00:46
Speaker 1: things like. That but, anyway go, ahead.
1:00:48
Speaker 2: Yes thank. You so we shared until twenty twenty printing
1:00:51
Speaker 2: press and advertising operations with The Deseret. News AND i
1:00:58
Speaker 2: think that complicated our financial certainly our financial, independence but
1:01:03
Speaker 2: our financial picture because over time that spread changed because
1:01:08
Speaker 2: The hedge fund wanted more.
1:01:10
Speaker 1: Cash out of, it so they wanted to extract more
1:01:13
Speaker 1: cash out of the, agreementcisely.
1:01:15
Speaker 2: Precisely, so, yes we didn't have a building when we
1:01:19
Speaker 2: became a, nonprofit we didn't.
1:01:21
Speaker 1: Have did they sell the building by then they hedge
1:01:23
Speaker 1: fund and sold the. Building, yep that happened in The Miami.
1:01:25
Speaker 1: Herald that. Happened it's happened to so many of these
1:01:27
Speaker 1: great news. Institutions they'd have great real, estate, right some
1:01:31
Speaker 1: of the best in you, know the downtowns or if
1:01:34
Speaker 1: you were on, water on, water things like, that and,
1:01:37
Speaker 1: yeah private and, they in theory could have been lifelines
1:01:42
Speaker 1: for the news organization to survive in tough.
1:01:44
Speaker 2: Times, YEAH i agree with. YOU i think that's. FAIR
1:01:48
Speaker 2: i will SAY i walked in this morning and there's this,
1:01:50
Speaker 2: huge big green mess of graffiti on my window in my,
1:01:54
Speaker 2: office AND i thought to, Myself i'm really HAPPY i
1:01:56
Speaker 2: don't know in this building right.
1:01:57
Speaker 1: Now fair.
1:01:58
Speaker 2: Enough so that's short term, thinking short term. THINKING i
1:02:01
Speaker 2: think the revenue diversification question that you're asking is a big.
1:02:05
Speaker 2: One AND i think if you look at some of
1:02:09
Speaker 2: the nonprofit media, landscape AND i deeply respect what Deep
1:02:13
Speaker 2: selth today is doing and what my Friend vonn is
1:02:15
Speaker 2: doing At Sahan, journal but if you look at the,
1:02:17
Speaker 2: spread you, know we are over indexed in terms of you,
1:02:23
Speaker 2: know either major donors or donors for at large at The.
1:02:26
Speaker 2: Tribune right, now we're about a third to third a.
1:02:29
Speaker 2: Third so we have this kind of legacy muscle that
1:02:32
Speaker 2: a sustainable.
1:02:33
Speaker 1: Split or do you think it you need to rearrange that.
1:02:36
Speaker 2: Split we always need to. Pivot there is no way
1:02:42
Speaker 2: that we don't need to.
1:02:43
Speaker 1: Keep moving like a TRUE Ceo.
1:02:49
Speaker 2: LAURELS a third of our revenue is in. ADVERTISING a
1:02:51
Speaker 2: third of our revenue is in subscriptions that will transition
1:02:54
Speaker 2: to memberships when we become a nonprofit voluntary. Memberships AND
1:02:58
Speaker 2: i do think it's. Harder it's easier to compel someone to, subscribe,
1:03:03
Speaker 2: right you just got to pull a. Lever you got
1:03:04
Speaker 2: to make them subscribe to read the. Story and here
1:03:07
Speaker 2: we really need to add value to their. Lives right
1:03:10
Speaker 2: in the membership, space we're moving from transactional to relational
1:03:13
Speaker 2: and that is a big. CHALLENGE i think it keeps
1:03:15
Speaker 2: us up at. Night and then the third bucket is
1:03:17
Speaker 2: the major donor. Bucket, Right and so, yes we've got
1:03:21
Speaker 2: a little bit of royalties. Revenue you, know we did
1:03:24
Speaker 2: have a little bit of rent revenue when we sublease some.
1:03:27
Speaker 2: SPACE i do think we are always interested in how
1:03:29
Speaker 2: we can further diversify our. Revenue but and that can
1:03:33
Speaker 2: also come by. Bucket, Right so we've got forty five
1:03:35
Speaker 2: thousand people that pay to support The. Tribune that's a.
1:03:38
Speaker 2: Diversification they aren't all going to go away on day.
1:03:41
Speaker 2: One unless you, know we're bought by a billionaire and
1:03:43
Speaker 2: things change, significantly that can't, happen, Right, so.
1:03:48
Speaker 1: And that comes with its own, baggage. RIGHT i always say.
1:03:50
Speaker 1: This billionaires are neither benevolent or. Malevolent they can be
1:03:54
Speaker 1: either or usually depending on the circumstances of their situation
1:03:59
Speaker 1: at the, moment whether they feel like a benevolent or
1:04:01
Speaker 1: a malevolent owner at any given.
1:04:03
Speaker 2: TIME i think that's. FAIR i think for us it's
1:04:08
Speaker 2: a matter of, independence. Right we are independent of the, church,
1:04:12
Speaker 2: right which is one of the reasons why we feel
1:04:13
Speaker 2: like we've got to be, free because The Church news is. Free.
1:04:16
Speaker 2: Right but we are also independent of any one person
1:04:20
Speaker 2: and how they may feel or what their positions may
1:04:22
Speaker 2: be in any given you, know.
1:04:23
Speaker 1: Day or week or month or. Year let me ask
1:04:34
Speaker 1: about the decision to get rid of the. Paywall how
1:04:37
Speaker 1: many different hybrid solutions did you guys look into before
1:04:40
Speaker 1: coming to the conclusion you came. Into, So Like i've
1:04:43
Speaker 1: always Been i've always Wondered i'll give you just a simple,
1:04:47
Speaker 1: question which is why not make today's news free and
1:04:49
Speaker 1: everything else behind a? Paywall, yeah Which i'm Sure i'm
1:04:53
Speaker 1: not the first person to throw this idea out, There
1:04:55
Speaker 1: so that's a sure you guys looked into. It what
1:04:58
Speaker 1: was why did you choose not to go that?
1:05:00
Speaker 2: Run, WELL i want to if you would not mind.
1:05:03
Speaker 2: Check there's a couple of people on our, Team Danielle
1:05:05
Speaker 2: white and Cl, hunter who have worked incredibly hard on,
1:05:08
Speaker 2: this and we've been testing the model for the better
1:05:11
Speaker 2: part of two, years and so we took a cohort
1:05:14
Speaker 2: out and we, said here's you know what you will,
1:05:16
Speaker 2: get and here's the experience that you're going to, Have
1:05:19
Speaker 2: and we watched them over a period of a couple
1:05:21
Speaker 2: of years so that we could understand what their behaviors look.
1:05:25
Speaker 2: Like so we're ready to.
1:05:26
Speaker 1: Move, also so you had you had a just a
1:05:30
Speaker 1: group of readers that just agreed to be a control
1:05:33
Speaker 1: group of some Sort.
1:05:34
Speaker 2: Yeah statistically. Significant we didn't give them a, choice but
1:05:38
Speaker 2: we did off them out and then their communication Flows.
1:05:41
Speaker 1: Congratulations you get this for? Free is that sort of the?
1:05:44
Speaker 2: Idea and they didn't stop, paying. Right we also in
1:05:49
Speaker 2: twenty and twenty three acquired a small weekly Called The
1:05:52
Speaker 2: Moab Times, independent which is down in the southwestern part
1:05:55
Speaker 2: of the. State it's the gateway town To Arches National
1:05:57
Speaker 2: park as well As Canyon. Lands. Right and when we
1:06:01
Speaker 2: acquired The Mollab Times independent from a family that had
1:06:04
Speaker 2: owned it for over one hundred, years no successor, right
1:06:06
Speaker 2: nobody wanted to take it. Over they didn't want to, sell,
1:06:09
Speaker 2: right so they gave it to The. Tribune we made
1:06:11
Speaker 2: The Mollab times free and those people kept paying, Right
1:06:15
Speaker 2: and so we had some inclination some, INSTANCE i would,
1:06:19
Speaker 2: say you, know learnings around where we may be. Headed
1:06:23
Speaker 2: and we have also thought a lot about what benefits
1:06:26
Speaker 2: are unlocked at what. Level so, yes to access older
1:06:30
Speaker 2: stories in our, archive you will need to donate to
1:06:33
Speaker 2: comment on our website Will.
1:06:35
Speaker 1: So there are some levels of and that's more in
1:06:39
Speaker 1: this is what membership gets. You, look we're not going
1:06:41
Speaker 1: to hide the. News but if you want to use
1:06:44
Speaker 1: this as a research tool for you for your kids
1:06:46
Speaker 1: high school, paper, yeah you're going to need to buy
1:06:51
Speaker 1: level two of this membership.
1:06:53
Speaker 2: Precisely or if you want the community that comes with our,
1:06:55
Speaker 2: comments or if you want to see the e, edition for,
1:06:57
Speaker 2: example those are all member.
1:06:59
Speaker 1: Benefit what is it that you've learned that the community
1:07:05
Speaker 1: wants that you didn't know back when you were the
1:07:10
Speaker 1: cub reporter covering high school sports at The. Trib, frankly
1:07:15
Speaker 1: before this entire, business you, know AS i, joke a
1:07:18
Speaker 1: man Named craig decided classified ought to be. Free, YadA, YadA.
1:07:21
Speaker 1: YadA we've had this local news crisis ever. Since but
1:07:25
Speaker 1: what what have you learned? About BECAUSE i had a
1:07:28
Speaker 1: friend of mine say this about The, post was you,
1:07:32
Speaker 1: know we were dealing with our own little crisis here
1:07:34
Speaker 1: in our community with The Washington post and the and
1:07:37
Speaker 1: the retreat from local and that you, know essentially a
1:07:41
Speaker 1: newspaper told you, know it was a one way, transaction
1:07:44
Speaker 1: you know, well and and they've never explained to the
1:07:49
Speaker 1: community why they've had to cut way, back why you,
1:07:54
Speaker 1: know they've never explained how the business works a little.
1:07:56
Speaker 1: Bit and they've you, know they've never gotten community buy.
1:07:59
Speaker 1: In what have you learned from this process that you
1:08:03
Speaker 1: wish you knew earlier when it came to being a
1:08:07
Speaker 1: local news.
1:08:07
Speaker 2: Reporter we cannot pull back the curtain, enough you. Know
1:08:12
Speaker 2: to your, point people who are engaged are incredibly curious
1:08:18
Speaker 2: about both their communities and how we, work, Right and
1:08:22
Speaker 2: SO i think we assumed back in the mid oughts
1:08:28
Speaker 2: WHEN i was a cub, reporter that we had to
1:08:31
Speaker 2: have all the answers because that's what people tell. You,
1:08:33
Speaker 2: right you're a beat. Reporter you've got to be an
1:08:35
Speaker 2: expert on The, pentagon you. Know and if we're good
1:08:41
Speaker 2: at our jobs, today it's because we're listening to the
1:08:45
Speaker 2: signals that people are sending us before we begin our, reporting.
1:08:50
Speaker 2: Right and that can be in the, data it can
1:08:52
Speaker 2: be in, serving it can be in. Conversations. Right but
1:08:55
Speaker 2: we've got an engagement director on our, team. Right the
1:09:00
Speaker 2: sole purpose of that role is to more authentically connect
1:09:04
Speaker 2: and explicitly with communities that we are under. Serving, Right
1:09:09
Speaker 2: so that might be, rurals that might Be spanish speaking
1:09:13
Speaker 2: audiences on the west side Of Salt. Lake how do
1:09:15
Speaker 2: we do a better job of understanding what it is
1:09:18
Speaker 2: that people want from? Us excuse me before we begin
1:09:22
Speaker 2: doing the.
1:09:22
Speaker 1: Work, yeah what is? It what did You what were
1:09:24
Speaker 1: some of the things that they felt as if the
1:09:26
Speaker 1: trip was not doing it?
1:09:28
Speaker 2: Before they want news that can help them make better.
1:09:33
Speaker 2: Decisions so we just surveyed four hundred gen z.
1:09:35
Speaker 1: Years so it goes back to our, friend what was,
1:09:38
Speaker 1: It Mart zuckerman back in the day with us news
1:09:40
Speaker 1: news you can? Use remember, that remember that old nineties
1:09:44
Speaker 1: saying news you can? Use you know the other guys
1:09:48
Speaker 1: and we all used to mock. IT i remember mocking
1:09:50
Speaker 1: it WHEN i was at the hotline and, asked news
1:09:52
Speaker 1: you can. Use you, know we were, Snobs but you know,
1:09:55
Speaker 1: what to a, consumer if you give them a piece
1:09:58
Speaker 1: of information that makes their life a little bit, easier
1:10:01
Speaker 1: you've just earned real.
1:10:02
Speaker 2: Trust, yeah we had people tell us they use the
1:10:06
Speaker 2: news to win FREE mls soccer tickets to find out
1:10:11
Speaker 2: what protest was THAT i expected that was more. Sure
1:10:16
Speaker 2: and there was one person who responded that they used
1:10:18
Speaker 2: the news to invest in, gold which was, okay you know,
1:10:23
Speaker 2: Right so they're making financial decisions based on what it
1:10:27
Speaker 2: is that they're, seeing you, know in the, News AND
1:10:29
Speaker 2: i think we can't underestimate the responsibility that we have
1:10:33
Speaker 2: to make sure that we're giving people fair and trusted
1:10:35
Speaker 2: and accurate. Information you, Know i've said.
1:10:38
Speaker 1: That you, KNOW i have a friend of mine That
1:10:41
Speaker 1: i've gotten to know during this, Journey Richard, gingris who
1:10:45
Speaker 1: ran The Google News, initiative and he's been on this.
1:10:48
Speaker 1: Rand he, said the worst thing that happened to journalism
1:10:50
Speaker 1: was all the presidents, meant because it made everybody think
1:10:55
Speaker 1: that good journalism was Being Bob woodward and you, know
1:10:58
Speaker 1: uncovering The great conspiracy and holding all these people. Accountable
1:11:03
Speaker 1: and that's a piece of, journalism there's no doubt about.
1:11:05
Speaker 1: It but that is anybody that's been a practicing journalist
1:11:09
Speaker 1: knows there are like three of those stories in your. Lifetime,
1:11:12
Speaker 1: okay ninety seven percent of the stories you're covering are
1:11:17
Speaker 1: stories that the reader is reading either to be informed
1:11:22
Speaker 1: or you're trying to help them live their. Lives but
1:11:23
Speaker 1: the reporter doesn't think of it part of this. Way
1:11:25
Speaker 1: the local news reporter doesn't always think of it that.
1:11:27
Speaker 1: WAY i, thought or DIDN'T i think. THEY i think
1:11:30
Speaker 1: we now understand this is a there's a public service
1:11:32
Speaker 1: aspect of. This, sometimes you you, know when you lose,
1:11:36
Speaker 1: something you suddenly, realize, hey wait a minutebe we were
1:11:38
Speaker 1: thinking about this all. Wrong and you are sounding to
1:11:41
Speaker 1: me like a public servant, Now AND i think, that,
1:11:45
Speaker 1: FRANKLY i think that is what local news proprietors need
1:11:48
Speaker 1: to see themselves they're part of the community leadership, team you,
1:11:51
Speaker 1: know no different than you, know the head of the,
1:11:53
Speaker 1: company the largest employer is a member of the community.
1:11:57
Speaker 1: Team the mayor is a. Member, well was the newspaper
1:12:00
Speaker 1: publisher in the in THE, ceo and that is the
1:12:03
Speaker 1: way it used to work in a lot of small
1:12:05
Speaker 1: towns and a lot of even small. Cities and then
1:12:08
Speaker 1: it got, commoditized, right you, know then it got you,
1:12:10
Speaker 1: know then we then get that comes. Along we try
1:12:12
Speaker 1: to scale everything and that's that homogenization is probably what
1:12:16
Speaker 1: chased to ray.
1:12:17
Speaker 2: Readers, yeah it's really. Interesting you, know the trip one
1:12:20
Speaker 2: of pullets are about ten years ago for some work
1:12:22
Speaker 2: that it did down AT byu with respect to BYU's honor,
1:12:27
Speaker 2: code and there's tremendous appreciation and respect for the journalists
1:12:31
Speaker 2: who did that. Work they're still, here but they are
1:12:34
Speaker 2: also just as, excited well that might be an. Overstatement
1:12:38
Speaker 2: they are also excited for when we do stories that
1:12:41
Speaker 2: the community responds. To we wrote about this this local
1:12:46
Speaker 2: suite shop that was struggling with the price of, eggs
1:12:49
Speaker 2: and the woman retweeted or, reshared excuse, me not, retweeted
1:12:54
Speaker 2: re shared Our instagram story and then added to it and,
1:13:00
Speaker 2: said the line has been down the block and around
1:13:02
Speaker 2: the corner for the last two. Days people have come
1:13:04
Speaker 2: out to support, me, right which it gets even, Better.
1:13:08
Speaker 2: Chuck then she reposted the next day and she, said
1:13:10
Speaker 2: and here are ten other local businesses that you should go.
1:13:13
Speaker 2: Visit and then we did the story on her, post
1:13:17
Speaker 2: which is, here you. Know and so there's this economic
1:13:20
Speaker 2: flywheel that's directly related to the first story that The
1:13:24
Speaker 2: tribune did that touched tens of, businesses, right and that
1:13:30
Speaker 2: matters just as much in my book as the awards.
1:13:34
Speaker 1: Do let's talk about the advertising, side because one of
1:13:37
Speaker 1: the Things i've learned on this journey is how many
1:13:39
Speaker 1: local businesses miss the local paper all around the country
1:13:45
Speaker 1: because it was they knew whoever was reading that lived
1:13:49
Speaker 1: in the, community Versus, look is it in theory easier
1:13:54
Speaker 1: to advertise anywhere you want around the. World it is
1:13:56
Speaker 1: with The google ad, thing but it's it's, impersonal, Right
1:14:02
Speaker 1: it's you don't know always where your ad shows up
1:14:05
Speaker 1: and and and, there and it's sometimes, yes it's supposed
1:14:09
Speaker 1: to maybe be geolocated and all of, that but there's
1:14:12
Speaker 1: a there's something missing and what you hear is you,
1:14:15
Speaker 1: know most local, businesses it's just like what you described
1:14:19
Speaker 1: in the in the small paper mentality where they're the,
1:14:23
Speaker 1: reporter the publisher and the printing press and the. Delivery,
1:14:27
Speaker 1: well in a small, business you're also the marketing, director
1:14:30
Speaker 1: you're the, owner you're the you're the, Salesperson you're you're making,
1:14:34
Speaker 1: payroll and you kind of want to know the person
1:14:37
Speaker 1: on the other side that you're selling. To So i'm
1:14:39
Speaker 1: just when it comes to local, advertising has this been
1:14:43
Speaker 1: has this Been has it been? Easier i'm assuming it's
1:14:45
Speaker 1: been easier or is it or has it been? Different
1:14:48
Speaker 1: is it is? There you, know what is that relationship
1:14:51
Speaker 1: like with the local business.
1:14:53
Speaker 2: Community that's a great. QUESTION i think relationship is the
1:14:58
Speaker 2: right word in that we're trying to move from reach
1:15:01
Speaker 2: to a. Relationship and that's not to say we don't have.
1:15:04
Speaker 2: Reach The tribune has got for a major, metro you,
1:15:07
Speaker 2: know relatively decent. Reach we have products we can, sell
1:15:11
Speaker 2: right be it, newsletter as, eldrip dot, com the printed
1:15:14
Speaker 2: product and so on and so. Forth but we are
1:15:17
Speaker 2: trying to orient people. Around you're making a decision about
1:15:21
Speaker 2: values here as much as you are making a decision
1:15:24
Speaker 2: about you know where to spend such that you get
1:15:29
Speaker 2: the return on investment that you want or. Need. Right the,
1:15:33
Speaker 2: challenge quite, frankly is that you, know even for The,
1:15:38
Speaker 2: tribune much of our reach is off. Platform so we
1:15:45
Speaker 2: reach millions of people On. Instagram last year on YouTube
1:15:49
Speaker 2: we reached twenty five million. People and local advertisers think about.
1:15:56
Speaker 1: But how many of them are Insult lake, right like shop.
1:15:58
Speaker 2: And Moab, right you, know they don't have the capacity
1:16:02
Speaker 2: to give us a YouTube, ad, right and so there's
1:16:05
Speaker 2: still a. Disconnect, now there's tremendous loyalty for the paper
1:16:08
Speaker 2: In moab and the advertisers AND molb love that printed,
1:16:11
Speaker 2: paper but ultimately we need to be thinking about how
1:16:14
Speaker 2: to transition.
1:16:15
Speaker 1: Them, WELL i, mean, look this is the. Case and it's.
1:16:18
Speaker 1: Interesting i've often thought that now where we've we've certainly
1:16:24
Speaker 1: lowered the barrier to entry when it comes to making.
1:16:26
Speaker 1: Advertisements now that your your team can start making the
1:16:32
Speaker 1: ads on behalf of the small businesses and we do
1:16:34
Speaker 1: that right with the help OF. Ai now and all
1:16:37
Speaker 1: this that there really is in some ways there's there's
1:16:41
Speaker 1: a variety of services you can PROVIDE i think now
1:16:44
Speaker 1: to local businesses that in, Theory google could, Too but
1:16:48
Speaker 1: who's The google rep that they're dealing, With, like in
1:16:50
Speaker 1: a weird, WAY i think they're more likely to trust
1:16:53
Speaker 1: somebody that they know, shares you, know the highway with
1:16:55
Speaker 1: them it's.
1:16:56
Speaker 2: A great, point or they see the grocery. Store, yeah, YEAH.
1:17:00
Speaker 1: I would think let's talk about reporter. Retention you, know
1:17:05
Speaker 1: in this day and, age this is there's a lot
1:17:10
Speaker 1: of there's a lot of ownership of our own work these, days,
1:17:17
Speaker 1: RIGHT i MEAN i said this. MYSELF i don't Think
1:17:19
Speaker 1: i'll ever want to work for another news organization again.
1:17:22
Speaker 1: Solely that doesn't MEAN i wouldn't want a relationships with
1:17:25
Speaker 1: multiple news, organizations but to just answer to one. Owner.
1:17:30
Speaker 1: RIGHT i look at it, like, HEY i really appreciate
1:17:33
Speaker 1: my independence. NOW i enjoy the responsibility that comes with.
1:17:38
Speaker 1: IT i think there's some, responsibility of, course but and
1:17:42
Speaker 1: SO i want to and yet at the same, time you,
1:17:45
Speaker 1: KNOW i, AM i Know i'm not the only journalist
1:17:47
Speaker 1: that wants to be wants to own their own. Work
1:17:49
Speaker 1: and there are there different models you're experimenting with at
1:17:53
Speaker 1: all or thinking about when it comes to the relationship
1:17:56
Speaker 1: of the. Reporter how full time reporters versus part time,
1:17:59
Speaker 1: reporter versus contributors versus you, know you, KNOW i sort
1:18:04
Speaker 1: of think we're going to head to WHAT i call an,
1:18:08
Speaker 1: umbrella you, know where a lot of people will be
1:18:10
Speaker 1: under one, umbrella even if they're independent on their own
1:18:13
Speaker 1: type of. Thing but is is that is that even?
1:18:17
Speaker 1: FEASIBLE i, Mean i'm just curious what where you may
1:18:20
Speaker 1: have some independent reporters that could make a ton of
1:18:23
Speaker 1: money on, substack right because they're experts in a specific.
1:18:26
Speaker 1: Thing what's your vision to dealing with that?
1:18:33
Speaker 2: Reporter for us In utah as still what one would
1:18:38
Speaker 2: call a legacy news. ORGANIZATION i would say the independent
1:18:42
Speaker 2: contractor creator freelancer model hasn't really caught. On we, have
1:18:48
Speaker 2: we do have a guild of relatively nascent new. Guild
1:18:51
Speaker 2: we signed our first contract with them last, year and
1:18:53
Speaker 2: it was really important that they secured benefits that are
1:18:59
Speaker 2: as associated with full time. Work and by THAT i
1:19:02
Speaker 2: mean they want health, insurance you, know they want a
1:19:04
Speaker 2: four to ONE k. Match they are looking for new
1:19:08
Speaker 2: baselines and compensation and you, know merit and cola that
1:19:14
Speaker 2: are consistent and that they can plan. On AND i
1:19:17
Speaker 2: think The tribune's done a really good job of creating
1:19:20
Speaker 2: those conditions as it would let's, say compare to maybe
1:19:24
Speaker 2: other media organizations out there that have you, know removed
1:19:29
Speaker 2: the four to one k match for cross seamings purposes
1:19:31
Speaker 2: and so on and so. Forth so so we're i
1:19:35
Speaker 2: think still fairly traditional in that.
1:19:37
Speaker 1: Space well that's kind of. GOOD i think there's plenty
1:19:39
Speaker 1: of people that also don't want to have. To, look
1:19:41
Speaker 1: it's a hustle to be an independent. CONTRACTOR i, Mean
1:19:44
Speaker 1: i'm not going to you, know and it is stressful
1:19:46
Speaker 1: for navigating the healthcare system on your own without AN hr,
1:19:50
Speaker 1: department so they're you, know you, know and and when
1:19:56
Speaker 1: you have kids out of, School when they're out of,
1:19:58
Speaker 1: school you have a little bit more freedom to do,
1:20:00
Speaker 1: that but when they're in, school you you you value
1:20:03
Speaker 1: that stability that a job what you're describing can.
1:20:08
Speaker 2: Give, yeah SO i would say that's probably the dominant
1:20:12
Speaker 2: kind of thinking at this point in. Time but we're
1:20:16
Speaker 2: also really. Flexible we are. Open you, know there's nobody
1:20:18
Speaker 2: telling us what we can or can't. Do so should
1:20:21
Speaker 2: we want to have a conversation with someone about you,
1:20:24
Speaker 2: know a sub stack or you, know if our video
1:20:27
Speaker 2: producer wants to go do this work over? Here you,
1:20:30
Speaker 2: know all he's got to do is, ask and you
1:20:33
Speaker 2: know usually it's, yes as long as there's no conflict of.
1:20:35
Speaker 1: Interest, right what's Your you've you've already talked about various
1:20:41
Speaker 1: platforms that the trip is. On talk to me how
1:20:45
Speaker 1: platform neutral every story is? Produced how many different ways these?
1:20:49
Speaker 2: Days in an ideal, World, chuck the story is produced
1:20:54
Speaker 2: for the. Platform, okay that's not often the way it.
1:20:58
Speaker 1: Works right, RIGHT i MEAN i get that that sometimes
1:21:01
Speaker 1: you need you, know do you have one person who
1:21:03
Speaker 1: knows how to Speak instagram or do you have An
1:21:06
Speaker 1: instagram person that helps Take so let's say you're reporting
1:21:09
Speaker 1: on your salt like this is probably there's probably more
1:21:13
Speaker 1: planning about, it but you've got an update with some
1:21:15
Speaker 1: new a new study in the great on what's being
1:21:18
Speaker 1: done to try to replenish the Great Salt. Lake do
1:21:22
Speaker 1: you have a one reporter that figures Out, okay this
1:21:25
Speaker 1: is The instagram angle, this this makes the most sense
1:21:29
Speaker 1: as a visual and we're going to do this and
1:21:31
Speaker 1: here's my text. Story maybe we ought to do a
1:21:34
Speaker 1: YouTube conversation or you're doing maybe you have your own.
1:21:37
Speaker 1: CHOIN i, mean what are the different platforms that the
1:21:41
Speaker 1: trip uses.
1:21:42
Speaker 2: Regularly if we are prioritizing the story for whatever, reason
1:21:47
Speaker 2: and that may not mean that we've worked on it
1:21:49
Speaker 2: for three, weeks we, are so for, example we'll take
1:21:52
Speaker 2: The No king's protests over the.
1:21:53
Speaker 1: Weekend, okay you know it's going to there's a lot
1:21:56
Speaker 1: of interest in that, story so we know it's going to. Be,
1:21:58
Speaker 1: YEAH i put in a lot of.
1:21:59
Speaker 2: Place where so we've STAFFED i think five or six
1:22:03
Speaker 2: cities throughout the. State it does big, state so like
1:22:05
Speaker 2: six hours, apart, right and we staffed for, video visuals
1:22:11
Speaker 2: and site and then. Social and we know that the
1:22:16
Speaker 2: words on a protest matter far less than the, visuals,
1:22:20
Speaker 2: right and so we overstaff on the visuals or the video.
1:22:24
Speaker 2: Right and you know those are quote unquote the priorities
1:22:28
Speaker 2: for this story. Specifically so when we're doing it, right
1:22:30
Speaker 2: we are thinking about what the platform is and then you,
1:22:33
Speaker 2: know we're reverse engineering the other platforms if you, will
1:22:38
Speaker 2: but we. Don't we don't ALWAYS i would, say you,
1:22:41
Speaker 2: know have the time or the resource to do. That
1:22:43
Speaker 2: we are very invested at this point in time in,
1:22:47
Speaker 2: YouTube YouTube, shorts, instagram less so. TikTok we're taking essentially
1:22:53
Speaker 2: what we're making for YouTube and moving it to TikTok
1:22:56
Speaker 2: because TikTok is not monetizable least YouTube, is even if
1:22:59
Speaker 2: it's pennies on the dollar at this point for.
1:23:01
Speaker 1: Us instagram's not very monetizable.
1:23:03
Speaker 2: Either, no it's. Not but the community there is significant
1:23:08
Speaker 2: and as a nonprofit that matters to.
1:23:10
Speaker 1: Us so in that, sense it's a. Nonprofit if you're
1:23:12
Speaker 1: looking for maybe new, donors, right new, Members instagram is
1:23:16
Speaker 1: a good marketing platform for.
1:23:17
Speaker 2: That we will test that this. Year it's one of the.
1:23:21
Speaker 1: One of the things we find. Out let's talk about
1:23:32
Speaker 1: your an editorial, page because everybody wants to label news,
1:23:37
Speaker 1: organizations and newspapers fairly or, unfairly always got labeled by
1:23:41
Speaker 1: the editorial, page when maybe that was just the opinion
1:23:45
Speaker 1: of the. Publisher sometimes in some news organizations it Was
1:23:48
Speaker 1: i'm not MAKING i do NOT i can. Pretend sometimes
1:23:52
Speaker 1: it is it is because the parent company wants. EVERYTHING
1:23:58
Speaker 1: i think back in the tribune, days all tribunes leaned
1:24:02
Speaker 1: one certain, direction no matter whatever tribunal news organization there,
1:24:05
Speaker 1: was and you would have that. SITUATION i have come
1:24:11
Speaker 1: down on the idea of why do we think we
1:24:14
Speaker 1: need one editorial. Page why if there's multiple schools of,
1:24:18
Speaker 1: thought let's maybe have a more diverse editorial. Page. Ay
1:24:23
Speaker 1: and then there's some other people who will, argue don't
1:24:26
Speaker 1: even bother having one have a place for, opinion but
1:24:29
Speaker 1: to showcase other, opinions to let there be sort of
1:24:32
Speaker 1: free wheeling. Conversation so to, me there's a lot of
1:24:35
Speaker 1: models out. There what's a model you guys have, chosen
1:24:39
Speaker 1: and what's both the challenge to that model and what
1:24:43
Speaker 1: you why do you think it works as? Well why
1:24:45
Speaker 1: did you choose that?
1:24:46
Speaker 2: One when we became a five TO oho ONE c,
1:24:48
Speaker 2: three we had to stop endorsing for any candidate who
1:24:53
Speaker 2: was running for political. OFFICE i was. THRILLED i don't think.
1:24:58
Speaker 1: That you got tired of being defined by, that because you.
1:25:02
Speaker 1: Do you get. Defined you, know you had like snarky
1:25:05
Speaker 1: news organizations back WHERE i worked at The hotline back
1:25:08
Speaker 1: in the, day where we would do these surveys of
1:25:09
Speaker 1: the newspapers and then all of a sudden of like
1:25:11
Speaker 1: who endorsed The democratic presidential candidate and who endorsed The
1:25:16
Speaker 1: republican presidential, candidate and THEN i actually we kept track
1:25:19
Speaker 1: of it so you would, see oh there were only
1:25:22
Speaker 1: like ten percent of the papers that surely sort of
1:25:25
Speaker 1: went back and forth and ninety percent endorsed the same
1:25:28
Speaker 1: party every. Time and it was a. Reminder, honestly it
1:25:32
Speaker 1: made me very cynical about newspaper endorsements. Anymore it's, like, well,
1:25:36
Speaker 1: WHAT i don't know if anybody looks to, them, right
1:25:38
Speaker 1: because usually if you're a reader or the, paper you
1:25:40
Speaker 1: already kind of know where they. Stand, ultimately it's about
1:25:43
Speaker 1: where you. Stand so but then there are certain things
1:25:48
Speaker 1: that you know THE i, Would but Then i'm going
1:25:53
Speaker 1: to argue with myself, here you being the publisher and
1:25:57
Speaker 1: your news, organization was a lot about what the community, needs.
1:26:02
Speaker 2: Yes and we should be reflecting that in the prep.
1:26:06
Speaker 2: Work in the pre work right right Sent we still
1:26:08
Speaker 2: send candidates for public office robust, questionnaires and we publish
1:26:12
Speaker 2: the results of those. Questionnaires and they're really.
1:26:15
Speaker 1: Fill them out.
1:26:16
Speaker 2: Anymore they, Do.
1:26:18
Speaker 1: Okay a lot of these candidates are being advised not
1:26:20
Speaker 1: to fill them out because we saw what have they
1:26:23
Speaker 1: saw what happened To Kamala. Harris what happens when you
1:26:25
Speaker 1: fill out one of those. Surveys you never know when
1:26:27
Speaker 1: it comes back in a ad that oh just takes
1:26:30
Speaker 1: your entire presidential. Campaign BUT i digest that's.
1:26:33
Speaker 2: FAIR i think there's enough reach and influence still with
1:26:36
Speaker 2: The tribune that many do want to. PARTICIPATE i think
1:26:39
Speaker 2: In utah, also there is still a strong rootedness and civic,
1:26:44
Speaker 2: engagement so folks will. Participate but that's the pre, work
1:26:48
Speaker 2: and it doesn't matter if it's a survey or if
1:26:50
Speaker 2: it's reporting. Right but people should have enough information to
1:26:53
Speaker 2: make their own. Decisions they don't need us to tell
1:26:55
Speaker 2: them how to vote, Right so no worries there on
1:26:57
Speaker 2: the five h ONE c three status negating the endorsement
1:27:01
Speaker 2: mechanism that newspapers have long. Held but we did a
1:27:04
Speaker 2: couple of other things. Differently shortly after becoming a, nonprofit
1:27:08
Speaker 2: we started to welcome community members to our editorial. Board
1:27:11
Speaker 2: so it is not me and it is not you,
1:27:14
Speaker 2: know the chair of our board who is shaping solely
1:27:18
Speaker 2: the opinion pages of The Saltly. Tribune we usually write
1:27:22
Speaker 2: around one to two staff editorials a. Week, Right we
1:27:25
Speaker 2: have an application. Process hundreds of people, apply we interview,
1:27:29
Speaker 2: them we talk to them about what we're looking for
1:27:32
Speaker 2: in a, candidate and we try to pick some diverse.
1:27:34
Speaker 2: Folks they don't all have the same views or same, politics,
1:27:37
Speaker 2: Right and so we build an editorial board with intentionality
1:27:41
Speaker 2: that includes the community because as a nonprofit we feel
1:27:44
Speaker 2: like that's the right thing to. Do this paper is
1:27:46
Speaker 2: oven for the, community, Right and so that's BEEN i
1:27:49
Speaker 2: would say. Success and it's also enriched the editorial, board.
1:27:52
Speaker 2: Right it brings in new. People we do it every.
1:27:53
Speaker 2: Year we welcome new. Folks we're in the interview phase right,
1:27:56
Speaker 2: now so we'll welcome another set of people In. June
1:27:59
Speaker 2: and then on the open, bedside we really tried to
1:28:02
Speaker 2: move away from how DO i want to say? This
1:28:04
Speaker 2: those who are expected to know a thing because it's their, job,
1:28:08
Speaker 2: right they're experts you, know on issue ex or y or.
1:28:12
Speaker 2: Z and we try to focus on lived, experience personal.
1:28:16
Speaker 2: Authority has the topic been? Undercovered if, so we should
1:28:20
Speaker 2: be featuring, it, Right is it? Timely you? Know is it? Local?
1:28:24
Speaker 2: Gosh you, know we probably get dozens of editorials excuse,
1:28:29
Speaker 2: me op eds submitted to us About President. Trump we
1:28:32
Speaker 2: don't run.
1:28:32
Speaker 1: Them, YEAH i get, it because to what? End you?
1:28:35
Speaker 1: KNOW i get. It you, know there's plenty of other
1:28:39
Speaker 1: outlets you can go to if you want to debate his.
1:28:41
Speaker 1: Presidency yeah, right and so SO i get that you've
1:28:48
Speaker 1: brought up the church a couple of, times and obviously
1:28:50
Speaker 1: it's a day you, know there there's no conversation About utah,
1:28:54
Speaker 1: politics there's no conversation About utah. Media that isn't going.
1:28:57
Speaker 1: Right the church plays a huge role in sort of
1:29:02
Speaker 1: day to day. Life so how do you cover the?
1:29:07
Speaker 2: Church, yeah faith is undercovered in this.
1:29:16
Speaker 1: COUNTRY i agree with. That it's a huge part of
1:29:20
Speaker 1: people's lives that we all are afraid of covering as
1:29:23
Speaker 1: news or. NEWS i think We're i'll just be, Honest
1:29:25
Speaker 1: i'll speak for myself And i'll just speak for. YOU
1:29:28
Speaker 1: i think it's a. Right we all know religion is very,
1:29:30
Speaker 1: personal and we know that people can take offense to
1:29:33
Speaker 1: something that never was meant to be. Offensive and it's,
1:29:35
Speaker 1: like you know, What i'm going to abide by what
1:29:38
Speaker 1: the advice my parents and grandparents gave to. Me, hey
1:29:41
Speaker 1: never talk about religion or politics with strangers or in.
1:29:45
Speaker 1: Public and it's, like, well that's now WHAT i do
1:29:47
Speaker 1: for a, living but that's neither here nor. THERE i
1:29:49
Speaker 1: didn't obviously take that advice very. Well but there's a
1:29:52
Speaker 1: reason we used to say that, Right and So i've always,
1:29:54
Speaker 1: thought AND i think it's why what you just expressed
1:29:59
Speaker 1: is so, true which is as, journalists we all struggle
1:30:03
Speaker 1: how do you do how do you cover faith honestly
1:30:07
Speaker 1: in a way without being insulting to the.
1:30:10
Speaker 2: Community, so THE Lds church is seventeen million, strong and
1:30:15
Speaker 2: we have a four person faith, team and yes we
1:30:20
Speaker 2: cover THE Lds, church we also cover other FAITH i
1:30:23
Speaker 2: think one of the reasons we are successful and there's
1:30:26
Speaker 2: tremendous interest in our faith reporting is because the folks
1:30:31
Speaker 2: on that team understand it well enough to cover. It
1:30:38
Speaker 2: would you ever.
1:30:39
Speaker 1: Allow somebody on that team who wasn't a member of
1:30:42
Speaker 1: the who was AN Lds.
1:30:43
Speaker 2: Yeah sure we. Would we don't have anyone who is
1:30:47
Speaker 2: not a member of the church on that team right.
1:30:49
Speaker 2: Now And i'll GIVE i give them so much. Credit
1:30:52
Speaker 2: check the other's name Is Dave, noise And DAVE i don't,
1:30:56
Speaker 2: ask but fairly. Certain he goes to church Every, sunday,
1:30:58
Speaker 2: right and he shows up and he will hold the
1:31:04
Speaker 2: church to account if. Needed On, monday and then he
1:31:08
Speaker 2: goes back to church and he shows up with all
1:31:11
Speaker 2: of those folks who know exactly what he, did you,
1:31:14
Speaker 2: know AND i just think that takes so much courage
1:31:18
Speaker 2: and commitment right to both his faith and his. Work
1:31:22
Speaker 2: AND i do think one of the reasons that we
1:31:24
Speaker 2: are successful is because this team is incredibly, professional incredibly,
1:31:29
Speaker 2: committed and deeply. Knowledgeable we have one of the pre
1:31:33
Speaker 2: eminent faith reporters in the country In Peggy Fletcher. Staff
1:31:36
Speaker 2: she's written multiple books on you, know THE lds. Faith
1:31:39
Speaker 2: she heads The Religion Writer's, conference of WHICH i am
1:31:44
Speaker 2: not going to get the name, correct, Right and you,
1:31:46
Speaker 2: KNOW i think faith is a really critical lens as
1:31:50
Speaker 2: we think about how and why people make. DECISIONS i,
1:31:52
Speaker 2: think you, know we do the independent.
1:31:54
Speaker 1: Work well and in your community there's probably a majority
1:31:58
Speaker 1: that are members of the. Church so in the community you.
1:32:00
Speaker 2: Cover the last time we, checked the legislature was like
1:32:04
Speaker 2: eighty PERCENT lds, Right and so the intersectionality between, faith
1:32:09
Speaker 2: business and politics here is huge and that's why we
1:32:12
Speaker 2: talk about it with an accountability. Lens you, know there's
1:32:14
Speaker 2: also a cultural Lens Mom, talk you, Know, Taylor, Frankie,
1:32:19
Speaker 2: Paul The Real housewives Of Salt, lake all of those
1:32:23
Speaker 2: shows are socializing folks to THE lds.
1:32:25
Speaker 1: Faith, YEAH i imagine that must just cause all sorts
1:32:29
Speaker 1: of tensions WITHIN lds, communities how Much hollywood is inserting
1:32:33
Speaker 1: itself right into the. CHURCH i can only imagine those.
1:32:38
Speaker 1: Debates there was an ARTICLE i want to, SAY i
1:32:41
Speaker 1: saw about three or four days ago about how the
1:32:45
Speaker 1: question was and this gets it sort of How. Utah
1:32:51
Speaker 1: let me put it this. WAY i get a, QUESTION
1:32:52
Speaker 1: i get this question a lot in the political circles
1:32:55
Speaker 1: about why are The utah politicians so? REASONABLE i, said,
1:33:00
Speaker 1: WELL i, said because they're super, polite, Right and then
1:33:04
Speaker 1: it was sort of my knee jerk. Answer BUT i
1:33:07
Speaker 1: was reading a piece the other day that talked about
1:33:09
Speaker 1: how the political divide is just as sharp and bright
1:33:14
Speaker 1: In utah as it is everywhere. Else but the only
1:33:16
Speaker 1: difference is that the conversations are more, polite but it's
1:33:20
Speaker 1: still deeply. Divisive it's just not done with harsher the
1:33:26
Speaker 1: harsh rhetoric that, frankly sadly most of us are now
1:33:29
Speaker 1: used to in some places on social. Media is that?
1:33:34
Speaker 2: True is that your experience that strikes me as? Absolute
1:33:38
Speaker 2: i've had both. Experiences so let's just take immigration for.
1:33:42
Speaker 2: Example we're about to open a warehouse here on the
1:33:46
Speaker 2: west side of. Town folks are very upset a nice
1:33:49
Speaker 2: warehouse on the west side of. Account AND i think
1:33:55
Speaker 2: the response has been significant because in, part lds serve
1:34:01
Speaker 2: to your. Mission they are more worldly than one might
1:34:08
Speaker 2: expect or, anticipate, right great empathy because of the.
1:34:13
Speaker 1: MYTH i think this is the. Reason it's the mission
1:34:16
Speaker 1: all learn a new, community.
1:34:18
Speaker 2: Exactly and so we are more, WELCOMING i would, hope
1:34:21
Speaker 2: AND i do think than, potentially you, know other. Places
1:34:25
Speaker 2: and so in that, INSTANCE i don't see, that you,
1:34:28
Speaker 2: know divisiveness playing out because of the Experiences i'm assuming
1:34:33
Speaker 2: of so many lds who did serve on. Missions and,
1:34:37
Speaker 2: yes there's also a culture around being polite in this
1:34:44
Speaker 2: space as we're having conversation.
1:34:45
Speaker 1: And minnesota and, ice, right we Have canada and, Ice
1:34:49
Speaker 1: minnesota and. Ice There's utah, ice, Right, yeah there.
1:34:51
Speaker 2: Is and yet there are all kinds of decisions that
1:34:58
Speaker 2: are made beyond those conversations, that, YES i think folks
1:35:01
Speaker 2: would characterize us more divisive or more you, know.
1:35:04
Speaker 1: Extreme, yeah it, is but it is interesting that it.
1:35:09
Speaker 1: Is utah politicians have been trying to play mediator generally international,
1:35:13
Speaker 1: politics whether it's the, governor whether it's Former Senator, romney
1:35:17
Speaker 1: Current Senator. Curtis now There's Senator lee who's on the
1:35:21
Speaker 1: other side of, this who's very much an advocate and
1:35:24
Speaker 1: a spokesperson for for The mega movement as. Well SO
1:35:28
Speaker 1: i mean it's not as if it's not a diverse
1:35:30
Speaker 1: set of opinions In, utah but it is not, monolithic
1:35:33
Speaker 1: AND i think that that is what surprises people about
1:35:37
Speaker 1: a so called red. State.
1:35:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah it'd be very interesting to see what happens
1:35:45
Speaker 2: as we look at redistricting for the first time here In.
1:35:48
Speaker 2: Utah will have in all you.
1:35:50
Speaker 1: Guys are having the opposite fight of everybody, Else, right
1:35:52
Speaker 1: you're trying not to redistrict or they want. It i'm half,
1:35:57
Speaker 1: kidding but it is sort. OF i guess there was
1:35:59
Speaker 1: an to put something on the ballot To Jerry mander
1:36:03
Speaker 1: and it got. Prevented DO i have it, right that's.
1:36:05
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah trump and you know friends put about four
1:36:10
Speaker 2: and a half million dollars Into utah in the signature gathering,
1:36:13
Speaker 2: effort and they picked up a bunch of SIGs. By you,
1:36:17
Speaker 2: know some people will say lying about what they were
1:36:20
Speaker 2: being asked to sign, for and so there was a
1:36:22
Speaker 2: big move to remove your signatures from the, ballot and
1:36:25
Speaker 2: just last week enough signatures were removed such That prop
1:36:28
Speaker 2: four will be removed from the, ballot and so we
1:36:31
Speaker 2: will keep our districts as they are currently constituted For,
1:36:36
Speaker 2: november which are different than what they were last time we've.
1:36:40
Speaker 1: Vote it's very confusing because you guys also passed a
1:36:42
Speaker 1: referendum that was supposed to be fair. Districts, yeah previously,
1:36:46
Speaker 1: correct and then this was a referendum that was going
1:36:48
Speaker 1: to undo, this right it. Is it is no wonder
1:36:51
Speaker 1: why some people, say my eyes are glazing.
1:36:53
Speaker 2: Over long story, short we should have one, blue three.
1:36:56
Speaker 1: Red we, might but you, know there's always a part of,
1:36:59
Speaker 1: me why do we plan these things like this is
1:37:02
Speaker 1: what bothers me about gerrymandering and redistricting in, general which
1:37:05
Speaker 1: is ultimately what's in the best interest of the. Community
1:37:09
Speaker 1: what would be a good community based. District these communities
1:37:12
Speaker 1: all have a lot of this in, common so there
1:37:14
Speaker 1: should be one person representing that's In, washington. Right we
1:37:17
Speaker 1: don't think of it that. Way it is always done and,
1:37:20
Speaker 1: look we all do. IT i do it, too which, is,
1:37:22
Speaker 1: oh this will be a red, district this will be
1:37:23
Speaker 1: a blue, District and we wonder why people are so
1:37:27
Speaker 1: cynical about voting itself. Right it's been it's a. Challenge
1:37:31
Speaker 1: but AS i always, say we're only as good as
1:37:34
Speaker 1: the sources we, have and sometimes it's our, sources meaning
1:37:36
Speaker 1: the people we cover that are doing these weird. Things
1:37:39
Speaker 1: don't blame. Us we're just the. Messenger we're just carrying a.
1:37:43
Speaker 1: Pencil what's The there's a big and this is to,
1:37:53
Speaker 1: ME i think it's an. Opportunity but when you think
1:37:56
Speaker 1: about growth and this is HOW i want to sort
1:37:58
Speaker 1: of land the plane, here when you think about the
1:38:01
Speaker 1: next ten years of the, trip and in this next ten,
1:38:06
Speaker 1: years we're going to have this the greatest consolidation of
1:38:08
Speaker 1: LOCAL tv stations around the country that we've ever. Seen
1:38:12
Speaker 1: in the middle of this massive Merger tegna and next
1:38:16
Speaker 1: are which is going to consolidate more a bunch of
1:38:19
Speaker 1: New what newspapers went through in the nineties and the
1:38:22
Speaker 1: early odds is now what LOCAL tv stations are going
1:38:24
Speaker 1: to go. Through it's going to be massive amounts of
1:38:28
Speaker 1: layoffs and huge consolidations and more less coverage. LOCALLY i
1:38:34
Speaker 1: actually view it for organizations like yourself as an. Opportunity.
1:38:38
Speaker 1: Right we know that landscape's going to, shift but you're. There,
1:38:41
Speaker 1: now what are those? Opportunities where do you hope to
1:38:45
Speaker 1: be in five? Years and where do you hope to
1:38:47
Speaker 1: be in ten? Years?
1:38:49
Speaker 2: Thanks we focused on, statewide SO i Mentioned. Moab we've
1:38:54
Speaker 2: expanded in a couple of other. Communities that was a
1:38:56
Speaker 2: big priority for. Us now the big priority is moving
1:38:58
Speaker 2: to free and make sure we get, that making sure
1:39:00
Speaker 2: we get that right, right we retain those.
1:39:02
Speaker 1: Members and you want to be a state wide paper
1:39:04
Speaker 1: as much as you are A Salt lake city? Paper
1:39:06
Speaker 1: siicly right one and the same almost, Okay and.
1:39:10
Speaker 2: We've got, reporters you, know anchored throughout the, state WHICH
1:39:14
Speaker 2: i think is a great. Benefit are you.
1:39:15
Speaker 1: Going to be A provo paper, though? Too meaning will
1:39:17
Speaker 1: you Cover? Provo and now you see Where i'm going, Here,
1:39:19
Speaker 1: like what does that mean your local paper In Salt
1:39:22
Speaker 1: lake and your state wide? Paper are you going to
1:39:24
Speaker 1: feel like a local paper In?
1:39:25
Speaker 2: Provo, WELL i go back To No. Kings we had
1:39:28
Speaker 2: a reporter In provo cover The No kings. Protests we
1:39:32
Speaker 2: had a reporter In, moab and In Saint george And,
1:39:34
Speaker 2: logan and again these communities are hours, apart, Right and
1:39:37
Speaker 2: then here at the, hub we pull what is relevant.
1:39:40
Speaker 2: Together you, KNOW i think you know the level of
1:39:44
Speaker 2: support is always a factor for us as we think
1:39:47
Speaker 2: about where we're headed, right both in the community and
1:39:50
Speaker 2: in the philanthropic. Space but we'll continue to expand In
1:39:54
Speaker 2: utah after we get, free sorted and. Straight and THEN
1:39:58
Speaker 2: i do think you know how to we want to say? THIS, hm,
1:40:02
Speaker 2: YES tv you. Know also you KNOW i come From,
1:40:08
Speaker 2: GANNETTE i come from. McLatchy, RIGHT i Spent.
1:40:11
Speaker 1: You've seen the good and the bad of what this,
1:40:13
Speaker 1: did and the good.
1:40:14
Speaker 2: In the, bad and there's plenty. Bad they're they're the
1:40:17
Speaker 2: extraction is is real and that is not what we
1:40:20
Speaker 2: are talking about. Here but there are also opportunities for
1:40:22
Speaker 2: us to learn from each. Other, right we have a
1:40:25
Speaker 2: tremendous social. Desk why aren't we sharing that knowledge with
1:40:28
Speaker 2: our friends In montana Or wyoming or With john at
1:40:31
Speaker 2: The Nevada. Indie, right we have the ability to negotiate
1:40:37
Speaker 2: for better health insurance with multiple.
1:40:41
Speaker 1: Partners, Oh i'm convinced to. This almost you. Rebuild i've
1:40:44
Speaker 1: been saying what the opportunity is to REBUILD upi NOT
1:40:47
Speaker 1: ap but WHAT upi originally was was actually a cooperative
1:40:51
Speaker 1: of independently news organizations who work together in a larger.
1:40:54
Speaker 2: Network, Right so if you're asking you what the future,
1:40:57
Speaker 2: IS i, mean that's my. FUTURE i think that's where we're.
1:40:59
Speaker 1: Headed, well it's the. FUTURE i hope we're. Headed so
1:41:04
Speaker 1: and you're actually doing the, doing doing the hard work
1:41:06
Speaker 1: on the. Ground, lord this was. GREAT i think it's
1:41:09
Speaker 1: A hopefully it's a story that may inspire current getting
1:41:13
Speaker 1: that owned news organizations or McClatchy owned news organizations who,
1:41:17
Speaker 1: think you, know, hey and they have a local philanthropist
1:41:22
Speaker 1: who would like to bring the local paper. BACK i,
1:41:25
Speaker 1: mean you, know it's interesting with The huntsmans with what
1:41:27
Speaker 1: they did for the, paper it's very similar to what
1:41:30
Speaker 1: we saw with The Baltimore. Banner they got a they
1:41:32
Speaker 1: got an initial big investment from somebody who, Said i'm
1:41:35
Speaker 1: gonna give you this. Runway you've got five years to DO,
1:41:38
Speaker 1: x y or z, uh and then you become on your.
1:41:41
Speaker 1: OWN i do think this is the. Community you, know
1:41:44
Speaker 1: part of the community involvement is the wealthier members of
1:41:47
Speaker 1: the community involved as well in something like. This but
1:41:50
Speaker 1: this feels like a repeatable model that you guys pulled.
1:41:53
Speaker 1: Off do you think it.
1:41:54
Speaker 2: Is, yes.
1:41:59
Speaker 1: Let's find some more communities to do. It local News.
1:42:02
Speaker 1: Day what do you hope to do for with? It
1:42:04
Speaker 1: what are you guys planning to do on?
1:42:05
Speaker 2: It, Y, well we're pretty focused on getting to.
1:42:09
Speaker 1: Free, well it's good, timing, Right we're going to do
1:42:13
Speaker 1: free and Local newsday.
1:42:14
Speaker 2: Free On Local News. Day how's?
1:42:16
Speaker 1: That there you? Go which is going to be music
1:42:17
Speaker 1: to the years of many people who are looking at
1:42:20
Speaker 1: their credit card boon and. Go how many substacks DO
1:42:22
Speaker 1: i subscribe? To, Sorry i'm just speaking for myself, Anyway,
1:42:25
Speaker 1: lauren this is. Terrific good luck and thanks for being.
1:42:28
Speaker 2: Here appreciate.
1:42:29
Speaker 1: It, WELL i hope you enjoyed that. Interview speaking of,
1:42:40
Speaker 1: interviews there's a new episode Of, dynastic my new sports
1:42:42
Speaker 1: history podcast with my Friend Ja. Donde we interview his
1:42:47
Speaker 1: old Friend Jimi, haren who is the Legendary hall Of
1:42:53
Speaker 1: Fame spanish language broadcaster Of dodger. Games it goes back
1:42:57
Speaker 1: to the late, fifties only recently. Retired what. Uh we
1:43:01
Speaker 1: have a terrific forty minute interview with, him and is
1:43:04
Speaker 1: if you're at all a baseball, fan forget being A dodger,
1:43:07
Speaker 1: fan just a baseball. Fan you're gonna love his, stories
1:43:11
Speaker 1: his stories of of of hanging out with Then, scully
1:43:15
Speaker 1: his stories Of Fernando. Allenswlli he had to be the
1:43:18
Speaker 1: interpreter for a while For fernando during the height Of Fernando.
1:43:22
Speaker 1: Mania he had his own you. Know it talks about you,
1:43:27
Speaker 1: know some of the greatest games he ever got to,
1:43:29
Speaker 1: call including an incredibly important game in the history Of
1:43:32
Speaker 1: Oral hirsheiser's. Career, anyway it's terrific. Episode jay AND i
1:43:37
Speaker 1: also take questions and answer some. Pushback we also give
1:43:43
Speaker 1: our greatest games of all time And dodger. History and
1:43:46
Speaker 1: just so you, know the next the next big Dive
1:43:48
Speaker 1: i've been living in it is The Pittsburgh. Steelers, man
1:43:52
Speaker 1: what a what a fun what a fun history to
1:43:54
Speaker 1: live in for a little. While So i'm enjoying. That
1:43:57
Speaker 1: it's taking me back to my childhood years a little
1:44:00
Speaker 1: bit of the of the, seventies of my first Super bowl,
1:44:02
Speaker 1: memories which for me is the last of the of
1:44:05
Speaker 1: the four super bowl first four Super bowls of The,
1:44:07
Speaker 1: stealers That Steelers rams Super bowl Against Vince Ferragamo's La.
1:44:12
Speaker 1: Rams but, anyway do check that. Out, obviously it's on
1:44:15
Speaker 1: this audio, feed but it's the dynastic feeds both on.
1:44:19
Speaker 1: YouTube please subscribe there circulating On. iHeartRadio it's good stuff on.
1:44:25
Speaker 1: That my new substack is. Up and by the, way
1:44:28
Speaker 1: like and subscribe in all of these. Places it just
1:44:30
Speaker 1: it just helps make sure we spread the. Word, Remember
1:44:33
Speaker 1: i'm not charging you anything for, this so you, know
1:44:36
Speaker 1: we've got to fight the, algorithms AND i need your,
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Speaker 1: LIKES i need your, SUBSCRIPTIONS i need your friends and
1:44:42
Speaker 1: families to do. That it helps beat the algorithms so
1:44:46
Speaker 1: that we don't have to charge for this. Content top
1:44:51
Speaker 1: five top all, right top five. LIST i have a
1:44:58
Speaker 1: little twist, today and the twist is, this did you
1:45:04
Speaker 1: know here's a fun. Fact as you, Know i'm a
1:45:07
Speaker 1: total elections. Nerd there are thirty six states that are
1:45:12
Speaker 1: holding governor's races in twenty twenty, six this campaign. Year
1:45:18
Speaker 1: seventeen of those thirty six states have had the same
1:45:23
Speaker 1: party hold the governorship for fifteen years or. More seventeen
1:45:30
Speaker 1: States South, dakota it's been forty seven years since a, democrat,
1:45:39
Speaker 1: right forty seven straight years Of Republicans oregon is it
1:45:42
Speaker 1: thirty nine straight years of democratic? Governorship idaho's at thirty,
1:45:46
Speaker 1: One texas thirty one. Years. Republican florida And nebraska are
1:45:49
Speaker 1: both twenty seven years since the Last democratic. Governor, Alabama
1:45:53
Speaker 1: georgia And South. Carolina it's been twenty three years since
1:45:56
Speaker 1: the Last democratic Governor New. York it's been nineteen years
1:45:59
Speaker 1: since the Last republican Governor, California, Connecticut hawaii has been
1:46:04
Speaker 1: fifteen years since the Last republican, Governor, Iowa, Ohio, tennessee
1:46:09
Speaker 1: And wyoming also it's been fifteen years since the Last democratic.
1:46:12
Speaker 1: Governor so why AM i giving you all? This because
1:46:16
Speaker 1: my top five lists this week's are the top five
1:46:18
Speaker 1: states most likely to end their partisan one party Droughts
1:46:24
Speaker 1: okay in twenty twenty, six it's possible none of these
1:46:28
Speaker 1: seventeen states in their. Droughts in, fact you could, Argue
1:46:34
Speaker 1: i'm looking at this list AND i think there's probably
1:46:38
Speaker 1: right now only one state where you'd say it's even even,
1:46:43
Speaker 1: money and that'd Be. Ile So i've given away what
1:46:46
Speaker 1: number one of state most likely of all the drought
1:46:50
Speaker 1: this and obviously by election day it's sixteen, years, Right
1:46:54
Speaker 1: so sixteen four terms are, longer. Right that means you've
1:46:57
Speaker 1: had at least four terms or more are four four
1:47:01
Speaker 1: year terms or more of same party. Rule so the
1:47:06
Speaker 1: number one state most likely to and it's drought in
1:47:08
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six Is. Iowa rob saying talked about it
1:47:11
Speaker 1: before you. Know he's not the number one state most
1:47:14
Speaker 1: likely to flip, overall but it's the number one most
1:47:16
Speaker 1: likely to end a four term one party. Drought So
1:47:21
Speaker 1: iowa number. One so number two on the list might
1:47:26
Speaker 1: surprise some of. You but number two on this list
1:47:30
Speaker 1: for me Is. Ohio Vveck ramaswami And Amy actin are
1:47:35
Speaker 1: the two candidates trying to replace term Limit Republican Governor
1:47:39
Speaker 1: mike De. Wine what's interesting about, this right Is mike
1:47:43
Speaker 1: The wine is formally Endorsed Vivick Rama. Swamy Mike dewines
1:47:48
Speaker 1: chief health advisor DURING covid Was Amy, acton who's going
1:47:52
Speaker 1: to be The democratic? Nominee, now she was never really
1:47:55
Speaker 1: a partisan actor until after she became THE covid czar Of,
1:47:58
Speaker 1: ohio of Which Mike DeWine has nothing but great things
1:48:02
Speaker 1: to say about. Her needless to, SAY covid, itself of
1:48:05
Speaker 1: the protocols have been obviously very, controversial and that had
1:48:08
Speaker 1: its own, thing but it Drove Amy actin into politics
1:48:14
Speaker 1: a little. Bit last three Polls i've seen in this
1:48:18
Speaker 1: race have had Act in. Ahead part of it, IS
1:48:21
Speaker 1: i think something's happening In. Ohio you've got just the
1:48:25
Speaker 1: overall weight of being a National republican not easy Shared
1:48:31
Speaker 1: brown's on the ticket you. HAVE i Think ramaswami very
1:48:36
Speaker 1: so closely associated with sort of the mag of, movement
1:48:41
Speaker 1: less popular today Than Republican party. Overall he's also a
1:48:45
Speaker 1: social with, doge which is a very unpopular thing outside
1:48:48
Speaker 1: Of republican primary. Circles now he's been trying to. Pivot
1:48:52
Speaker 1: if you've followed, It i'm you, know this is one
1:48:54
Speaker 1: of my pet. Races i'm just obsessed with. IT i
1:48:57
Speaker 1: Think ramaswami IS i think he's got a ceiling of
1:49:01
Speaker 1: fifty two. Percent he may, win BUT i don't think
1:49:04
Speaker 1: he gets more than fifty one or fifty. Two but
1:49:07
Speaker 1: this is one of THOSE i think it's it's one
1:49:11
Speaker 1: of my early upset. SPECIALS i think he's we'll, see you,
1:49:23
Speaker 1: know either, Way ohio's going to do something gets not done,
1:49:26
Speaker 1: before whether it's elect the woman governor or elect a
1:49:29
Speaker 1: person of color as. Governor it'll be certainly unique and.
1:49:37
Speaker 1: Different BUT i do wonder If Romis swami's going to
1:49:44
Speaker 1: be carrying too Much trump. Baggage so he's number two
1:49:48
Speaker 1: on that of most likely to. Flip number, THREE i
1:49:53
Speaker 1: think you have to Put georgia in there. NOW i
1:49:57
Speaker 1: think the The democratic, primary, look both primaries are, crowded
1:50:03
Speaker 1: there's no there's there is somewhat of a front runner
1:50:07
Speaker 1: on The democratic, side it's Former atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance.
1:50:09
Speaker 1: Bottoms but it's a pretty competitive racee you of the
1:50:14
Speaker 1: Former republican lieutenant governor who's become A democrat, running you,
1:50:19
Speaker 1: know so we shall see what happens. There The republican
1:50:24
Speaker 1: primary is kind of a. Mess you have A trump
1:50:26
Speaker 1: endorsed candidate who's the Sitting lieutenant, Governor Burt. Jones you
1:50:29
Speaker 1: have this wealthy Businessman Rick jackson who's jumped in and
1:50:34
Speaker 1: he just already seems like a more competent candidate Than Burt.
1:50:38
Speaker 1: Jones but it's kind of a. MESS i think both
1:50:41
Speaker 1: primaries are kind of a, mess and it's it's going
1:50:43
Speaker 1: to Be, Look george is a toss up, state AND
1:50:47
Speaker 1: i could See Keisha Lance bottoms running with as off
1:50:51
Speaker 1: being pretty strong on that, Front so we'll. See ALTHOUGH
1:50:57
Speaker 1: i Think jackson is going to be a strong candidate
1:50:59
Speaker 1: If jackson ends up the, nominee AND i do wonder
1:51:02
Speaker 1: how much effort Does trump make in trying Because jackson's
1:51:05
Speaker 1: trying to run as a trumpy candidate. Himself so we'll.
1:51:09
Speaker 1: See So i'm gonna Put georgia in the three. SPOT
1:51:11
Speaker 1: i think that's just going to be a pure toss
1:51:12
Speaker 1: up race no matter what on that. One so that's number,
1:51:16
Speaker 1: three And i'll be, honest the next two could easily
1:51:21
Speaker 1: be high single digit victories by the incumbent, party BUT
1:51:29
Speaker 1: i think they both could be potential upsets. Too so
1:51:32
Speaker 1: in my four spot Is. Alabama it's the open. Seat
1:51:35
Speaker 1: Tommy tupperville's the Likely republican, nominee And Doug, jones who
1:51:40
Speaker 1: was The senator for a brief period of, time lost
1:51:43
Speaker 1: The senate seat To Tommy, tupperville is the Likely democratic.
1:51:47
Speaker 1: Nominee there's still some questions about Whether Tommy tupperville meets
1:51:52
Speaker 1: the residency requirement because it's, Look i've seen the advertisement
1:51:57
Speaker 1: while In Northwest florida Where Tommy tupperville talks about living
1:52:03
Speaker 1: In florida and sort of it's one of These it's
1:52:08
Speaker 1: one of these beach. Channels if you've ever been to
1:52:10
Speaker 1: one of these beach communities that kind of have like
1:52:12
Speaker 1: a cable access channel that just promotes the local area
1:52:15
Speaker 1: and there are these little local, celebrities and you, know
1:52:18
Speaker 1: being the former head Coach auburn made him a semi
1:52:21
Speaker 1: local celebrity in The. Panhandle and he's there ON tv
1:52:25
Speaker 1: talking about how he has a home In florida and
1:52:27
Speaker 1: then you, know, Oops, look there are no residency requirements
1:52:31
Speaker 1: to be A us. Senator there are residency requirements in
1:52:34
Speaker 1: state constitutions to be a. Governor some of them are seven,
1:52:38
Speaker 1: years some five, years and so there is some question
1:52:41
Speaker 1: of Whether tommy meets the seven year threshold even though
1:52:45
Speaker 1: he serves six. Years there's, look the courts will probably
1:52:50
Speaker 1: side with him and it's not going to be a,
1:52:52
Speaker 1: problem but just being able to play to use the issue,
1:52:57
Speaker 1: Right it's like What Tom styers. Doing Eric, swalwell does
1:53:00
Speaker 1: he even own a place anywhere in his? District you,
1:53:02
Speaker 1: know it will it will bother some. Voters wait a,
1:53:06
Speaker 1: minute you're not even really living. Here you're just trying to,
1:53:08
Speaker 1: like you, know hide across the border in an attack
1:53:12
Speaker 1: shelter state Like. FLORIDA i think it's A i think
1:53:17
Speaker 1: in the political environment like, This look in a blue wave,
1:53:22
Speaker 1: environment there's going to be some upsets and places you don't.
1:53:26
Speaker 1: Expect but you've got to have viable candidates on the
1:53:29
Speaker 1: board to. Win Doug jones is. Viable Tommy tupperville is.
1:53:33
Speaker 1: Vulnerable he's not the strongest candidate they could. Have so
1:53:38
Speaker 1: that's number four of ending ending this a four term
1:53:42
Speaker 1: or more. Drought and the number five Is. Texas i've
1:53:45
Speaker 1: talked About texas. Before we've Had, gina you, know so
1:53:49
Speaker 1: The democratic nominee on this podcast before the education issue
1:53:52
Speaker 1: is red hot out. There you throw the ken past in.
1:53:56
Speaker 1: It if he ends up The republican nominee For, senate
1:53:58
Speaker 1: you have all these cross rance Disaffected republicans frustrated With
1:54:03
Speaker 1: paxton and. All, Look abbot has a gazillion, dollars and you,
1:54:10
Speaker 1: know host so does. NOT i expect this race to
1:54:15
Speaker 1: be surprisingly. Competitive it's Never. Abbots you, know abbits Trump.
1:54:20
Speaker 1: Man abbit's trying to be the longest serving. Governor there's
1:54:22
Speaker 1: always the. Point the Reason i'm highlighting this is that
1:54:26
Speaker 1: every state hits a fatigue point with one party, rule.
1:54:30
Speaker 1: Right we saw it In. Kansas we've seen. It you
1:54:33
Speaker 1: just hit a wall with one party. RULE i think
1:54:35
Speaker 1: that's about to happen In. IOWA i think that's possible
1:54:38
Speaker 1: that that's one of the things that Powers amy acting In,
1:54:41
Speaker 1: ohio and it could be what powers you. KNOW i
1:54:45
Speaker 1: think The alabama situation is. DIFFERENT i think That's tupperville.
1:54:48
Speaker 1: Centric LIKE i don't think it's a state that's tired
1:54:50
Speaker 1: Of republican, rule BUT i could See tupperville not being
1:54:53
Speaker 1: everybody's you, know sort of just coming across as just
1:54:57
Speaker 1: simply not knowledgeable enough to do the, job you, know
1:55:00
Speaker 1: unlike being unlike the last few years as a college football,
1:55:04
Speaker 1: coach where the rumor was he wasn't doing all the
1:55:06
Speaker 1: hard work anymore of recruiting or being a part time.
1:55:11
Speaker 1: Senator governors a full time. Job governor's a real job in.
1:55:14
Speaker 1: Politics you can kind of you can kind of video
1:55:19
Speaker 1: game your video game away your life being a senator
1:55:23
Speaker 1: or A house. Member governor's real, work and voters usually know.
1:55:28
Speaker 1: It but number five would Be. Texas so to review
1:55:34
Speaker 1: of these of the party drought states four terms or
1:55:37
Speaker 1: more where one party has dominated the five, states most
1:55:42
Speaker 1: likely to break. That they're All, democrats they're All democratic.
1:55:46
Speaker 1: Droughts in this, case there's really only One republican drought
1:55:50
Speaker 1: state that might be competitive this year in the general
1:55:53
Speaker 1: and It's. Oregon just man The democratic. Governors there's been
1:56:00
Speaker 1: a lot of angst, about particularly on the issue of
1:56:04
Speaker 1: crime and sort of quality of life issues In, portland
1:56:07
Speaker 1: and you, Know democrats basically keep getting by in the
1:56:11
Speaker 1: skin of their. Teeth there was a really close cumbernatory
1:56:13
Speaker 1: election a couple of cycles ago with the basketball, player
1:56:16
Speaker 1: former basketball Player Chris. Dudley if you remember that, one
1:56:18
Speaker 1: it was very, competitive very. Close you had a weird
1:56:22
Speaker 1: three way race there that that that almost So oregon
1:56:26
Speaker 1: is on the precipice of something if The republicans find
1:56:28
Speaker 1: an electable. Candidate you, know it's one of those THAT
1:56:32
Speaker 1: i Expect oregon to do this four years from, now
1:56:35
Speaker 1: not there when When trump is in the review. MIRROR
1:56:38
Speaker 1: i do Think trump is a is a tax on
1:56:40
Speaker 1: Any republican trying to win in a blue. State Right
1:56:43
Speaker 1: it is just a two to five percentage point tax
1:56:46
Speaker 1: that is tough to overcome when you everything's got to
1:56:49
Speaker 1: go perfectly for you to pull that. Off so to
1:56:53
Speaker 1: review my five drought states' most likely to Flip number One,
1:56:58
Speaker 1: iowa number Two, ohio number, Three, alabama excuse, me number Three,
1:57:06
Speaker 1: georgia number Four, alabama and number Five. Texas Ask, chuck all,
1:57:20
Speaker 1: right it is question, time and we start With jay
1:57:23
Speaker 1: In New. York he, Writes, Hey i've often wondered what
1:57:26
Speaker 1: presidential campaign would look like if the electoral college were.
1:57:28
Speaker 1: Abolished we are so accustomed to seeing the nominees appear
1:57:31
Speaker 1: only in a handful of swing states between the end
1:57:33
Speaker 1: of the primaries and the general. Election would there be
1:57:35
Speaker 1: value in A democrat appearing in big cities in saint
1:57:37
Speaker 1: blue states Or republican appearing in rural areas of safe red.
1:57:40
Speaker 1: States and with swing states out of the, picture would
1:57:42
Speaker 1: The american suburbs become the new generic. BATTLEGROUND i simply
1:57:46
Speaker 1: cannot wrap my head around what that political reality might look,
1:57:49
Speaker 1: like can. You, well it's funny you, ask because Take La.
1:57:53
Speaker 1: County trump received one point one million raw votes out
1:57:58
Speaker 1: Of La, county a state that he excuse, me a
1:58:02
Speaker 1: county that he lost by thirty. Points all, right but
1:58:07
Speaker 1: if we're a popular, vote if you're in a popul
1:58:09
Speaker 1: right one point one IN La. County, now you're never
1:58:12
Speaker 1: going to see A republican president campaign In La county
1:58:15
Speaker 1: in our current, system, right but in the popular vote.
1:58:19
Speaker 1: System let me Just i'm going to read you off
1:58:22
Speaker 1: the number of states That trump carried with fewer votes
1:58:26
Speaker 1: that he received In La, County, Wyoming West, Virginia North,
1:58:30
Speaker 1: Dakota South, Dakota, Idaho, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Montana, Nebraska, Mississippi, Alaska.
1:58:42
Speaker 1: Utah that's quite a few. States SO i think this
1:58:53
Speaker 1: is one of those things we're not a. FULLY i
1:58:56
Speaker 1: THINK i think media markets would. MATTER i think you
1:58:59
Speaker 1: would see things, LIKE i, know you, know you you
1:59:05
Speaker 1: might take a riverboat ride down The mississippi so that
1:59:08
Speaker 1: you could hit as you, know all these media ANY
1:59:11
Speaker 1: i think you might actually see whistle stop. Tours you
1:59:14
Speaker 1: might see bus, tours riverboat, tours you might see airplane
1:59:24
Speaker 1: hangar stops. Throughout but very media market. Heavy but the,
1:59:31
Speaker 1: math you, KNOW i THINK i think it would be
1:59:34
Speaker 1: something that would probably change a lot in the first
1:59:41
Speaker 1: sort of three or four elections that we had with
1:59:43
Speaker 1: the popular. Vote so you, know it's one of those
1:59:47
Speaker 1: but but, uh you know that single fit this idea
1:59:50
Speaker 1: That republicans wouldn't campaign in the cities, actually oh, no,
1:59:54
Speaker 1: right a large chunk of their vote and every you
1:59:57
Speaker 1: know is actually come comes from the, cities, right you,
2:00:00
Speaker 1: know these huge population, centers they're not ninety ten, democratic
2:00:05
Speaker 1: they're like sixty, forty sixty, five thirty. Five the question
2:00:10
Speaker 1: is Would democrats stop campaigning and rural you know a
2:00:13
Speaker 1: lot of rural parts Of america wouldn't be campaigned. In,
2:00:16
Speaker 1: yes the suburbs would be a Huge BUT i think
2:00:20
Speaker 1: what you're seeing is is that you would probably have
2:00:24
Speaker 1: the top twenty five media markets where you would do
2:00:27
Speaker 1: three stops a piece every time you went, there, right you,
2:00:30
Speaker 1: know the main center and maybe the two biggest suburbs
2:00:33
Speaker 1: and every one of the top twenty five. Markets BUT
2:00:40
Speaker 1: i think that's what you'd see some form in. THAT
2:00:42
Speaker 1: i think you'd see a lot more attempts at identity
2:00:45
Speaker 1: politics in order to try to you, know cover you,
2:00:48
Speaker 1: know church going, Members African american, Voters spanish speaking, voters
2:00:52
Speaker 1: things like. That you'd have a lot more national advertising
2:00:57
Speaker 1: than ever. Before so but, yeah you, know in some
2:01:02
Speaker 1: ways there Is the electoral college does concentrate the campaign
2:01:07
Speaker 1: mind a little, bit AND i still think the better
2:01:10
Speaker 1: way to fix the electoral colleges to right size The
2:01:14
Speaker 1: house Of. Representatives so if we basically had twice as
2:01:17
Speaker 1: Many house, members the electoral college numerator, changes and then
2:01:20
Speaker 1: suddenly you wouldn't have this disparity between the popular vote
2:01:25
Speaker 1: and the electoral college. Outcome second question comes From Trip, North.
2:01:30
Speaker 1: Carolina hey love the. Podcast do you think there's any
2:01:32
Speaker 1: Chance republicans will find a way to Impeach trump or
2:01:34
Speaker 1: remove them from? Office it's the correct way to ask this.
2:01:37
Speaker 1: Question do you think there's any Chance republicans will find
2:01:41
Speaker 1: a way to Impeach trump or remove them from? Office
2:01:43
Speaker 1: Unless republicans want to do, it ain't happening. Right democrats
2:01:47
Speaker 1: may provide a majority of the votes for, it but
2:01:50
Speaker 1: unless you have a Dozen Republican senators or, more probably
2:01:55
Speaker 1: closer to, eighteen you don't need. Half BUT i think
2:02:00
Speaker 1: you kind of politically need half The senate to do it,
2:02:03
Speaker 1: Right so you kind of need twenty five to twenty,
2:02:05
Speaker 1: six AND i don't think we're. There you, know just,
2:02:10
Speaker 1: look you could see what the president's you, know when
2:02:12
Speaker 1: he when his job approval rating hits that thirty, five thirty,
2:02:15
Speaker 1: six thirty seven, percent he is only getting his The
2:02:19
Speaker 1: republican vote, right and his approval rating somewhere between eighty
2:02:22
Speaker 1: and eighty six percent Of republicans approve of his, job
2:02:26
Speaker 1: which is actually down right we've been in the. NINETIES
2:02:29
Speaker 1: i think it's like ninety five percent Of democrats, disapprove,
2:02:32
Speaker 1: right and that's that's been a that's actually some of you,
2:02:36
Speaker 1: know what's weighing him. Down independents look, more are like
2:02:39
Speaker 1: sixty forty against, him and So republican support would have
2:02:51
Speaker 1: to probably Before i'd even entertain the, Idea i'd have
2:02:55
Speaker 1: to start to see rank and File republican support drop
2:02:58
Speaker 1: below seventy five percent for. Him and if we're saying,
2:03:01
Speaker 1: this you, know closer to, seventy you, know even sixty,
2:03:05
Speaker 1: eight sixty nine, percent whereas job approval Among republicans is that,
2:03:08
Speaker 1: low then you start to, REALIZE i, mean that means
2:03:11
Speaker 1: he's you Have republicans will be actively running against. Him
2:03:14
Speaker 1: but here's the. THING i don't know if we're going
2:03:24
Speaker 1: to see A republican get elected by running Against trump
2:03:27
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty, six AND i don't know if we're
2:03:30
Speaker 1: going to see A republican try to run Against trump
2:03:34
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six and the fact that we're not
2:03:37
Speaker 1: even seeing an attempt to try to do it tells
2:03:40
Speaker 1: me we're a long way away From republicans being ready
2:03:42
Speaker 1: to essentially do the political death penalty For. TRUMP i,
2:03:47
Speaker 1: mean if they couldn't do it After january, sixth when
2:03:50
Speaker 1: are they going to do? It next question comes From
2:03:54
Speaker 1: mike In, honolulu and he, Writes, HEY i appreciate the
2:03:56
Speaker 1: running commentary regarding the rapidly involving events and with the
2:03:59
Speaker 1: war In. Iran thank. You wondering, what if any is
2:04:01
Speaker 1: the connection Of secretary haigseeth Outsting General Randy george and
2:04:05
Speaker 1: the administration's confusing rhetoric as imagine a frantic mess in
2:04:08
Speaker 1: the background trying to figure out better. Options, ALSO i
2:04:10
Speaker 1: appreciate your perspective and how far the administration would push
2:04:13
Speaker 1: and destroying a run civilian infrastructure with allies alienated and
2:04:17
Speaker 1: circumspect AND nato. Weekend is The Geneva convention partially defunct as?
2:04:21
Speaker 1: Well let's say we violated The Geneva Convention's, mike who
2:04:27
Speaker 1: other than a strongly worded letter from The United nations
2:04:33
Speaker 1: that THE us might veto? Anyway, RIGHT i don't know
2:04:37
Speaker 1: where now our moral authority would be. GONE i think
2:04:42
Speaker 1: you would have plenty Of european leaders if we really
2:04:47
Speaker 1: committed war crimes In. Iran and you, know like you
2:04:51
Speaker 1: KNOW i in between the start of this, podcast he
2:04:56
Speaker 1: officially took the exit ramp As i'm answering these, questions
2:05:00
Speaker 1: as we kind of knew he, would because he doesn't
2:05:03
Speaker 1: mean what he says until he, does, right and that's
2:05:07
Speaker 1: unfortunate that that's the world we have to live. In
2:05:09
Speaker 1: you can't really believe what the president says at any given,
2:05:12
Speaker 1: moment and you're not sure when he's full of shit or.
2:05:14
Speaker 1: Not but here we. Are BUT i do worry that
2:05:19
Speaker 1: that just his rhetoric Has AND i go WITH. NATO
2:05:24
Speaker 1: i don't think NATO's a functioning body with the with
2:05:26
Speaker 1: The when The american president he is not supportive OF,
2:05:30
Speaker 1: nato it doesn't matter if we're technically in the treaty or.
2:05:32
Speaker 1: Not he's going to do it his best to make
2:05:36
Speaker 1: sure his administration wouldn't cooperate WITH. Nato so, YEAH i
2:05:42
Speaker 1: think The Geneva conventions are are essentially a basically a
2:05:55
Speaker 1: paper with a set of. Suggestions i'm LIKE i, Said
2:06:01
Speaker 1: i'm very worried Any american that gets. Kidnapped i'm very.
2:06:06
Speaker 1: Worried next question comes From charles Good, name any thoughts
2:06:14
Speaker 1: and why The dems haven't taken any steps in court
2:06:16
Speaker 1: to try and Stop trump's use of the war powers In? Iran,
2:06:20
Speaker 1: well all? Right do you they think that the use
2:06:22
Speaker 1: of forced legislation after nine to eleven gives him the
2:06:24
Speaker 1: authority he needs to combat quote? Terrorism they didn't object
2:06:27
Speaker 1: To obama doing. So do they not want to tie
2:06:29
Speaker 1: the hands of future democratic presidents having already seated congressional
2:06:32
Speaker 1: war powers to the executive or are they concerned about
2:06:35
Speaker 1: whether they have standing to do? So Speaker johnson certainly,
2:06:37
Speaker 1: won't and either Will Majority leader thun OR Vp vance
2:06:40
Speaker 1: As president of The. Senate and then you end of go?
2:06:43
Speaker 1: Utes did you Say? Utes? Sorry good night? Myself you're
2:06:50
Speaker 1: the other? You? RIGHT i believe you guys do it this,
2:06:51
Speaker 1: way and we do it this. Way SO i think
2:06:57
Speaker 1: we're on the clock with war. POWERS i, think let's see,
2:07:01
Speaker 1: it sixty day, mark we're twenty days. Away if you
2:07:05
Speaker 1: start doing the math, Here february twenty, eighth thirty one
2:07:08
Speaker 1: days In. March let's count the twenty. Eighth that's thirty,
2:07:11
Speaker 1: two we're at, forty so orre twenty more. DAYS i
2:07:15
Speaker 1: think we're twenty days away from this kind of. Action
2:07:19
Speaker 1: it's possible there's an attempt to go to the. Courts
2:07:22
Speaker 1: maybe some members Of congress do, that BUT i think
2:07:25
Speaker 1: there's an appetite even among Some. REPUBLICANS i Highlighted John,
2:07:28
Speaker 1: Curtis senator From, utah A republican who basically is, saying
2:07:34
Speaker 1: the clock's the. Clock when the clock strikes at, sixty
2:07:39
Speaker 1: you guys got to come and explain, yourselves and there's
2:07:41
Speaker 1: got to be a vote before we give you any
2:07:42
Speaker 1: supplemental things like. That SO i think this war is
2:07:46
Speaker 1: unpopular enough right now That i'm Hopeful congress is going
2:07:54
Speaker 1: to sort of like you, know it's sort of like
2:07:56
Speaker 1: wake from its decades long slum on its constitutional. Authority,
2:08:05
Speaker 1: SORRY i was trying to sort of emulate somebody waking
2:08:08
Speaker 1: up after a long. Hibernation so Count i'm count me
2:08:16
Speaker 1: as looking forward to what happens when the clock strikes sixty.
2:08:20
Speaker 1: Days next question comes From jim From Saint. Paul. Hey
2:08:25
Speaker 1: Chuck love the podcast frequently you mentioned The Middle east
2:08:27
Speaker 1: borders and how they were established after the end Of
2:08:29
Speaker 1: World War one and the end of The Ottoman, empire
2:08:31
Speaker 1: has there ever been a real attempt to discuss or
2:08:33
Speaker 1: start changing the borders to be more practical or to
2:08:35
Speaker 1: be more attuned to the people that live within those?
2:08:37
Speaker 1: Borders go Twins jim From Saint. Paul, so how's That
2:08:41
Speaker 1: tuesday solution, Going? JIM i, mean we've actually been trying
2:08:45
Speaker 1: to redraw the borders in The Middle east arguably since
2:08:48
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty, seven at a. MINIMUM i think WE'RE i
2:09:00
Speaker 1: think THAT i fear we've got a little rules of the.
2:09:03
Speaker 1: Jungle Previous american presidents put a lot of pressure on
2:09:12
Speaker 1: certain parts of The israeli government who were pushing to
2:09:15
Speaker 1: the next parts of The West. BANK i fear this
2:09:18
Speaker 1: president won't do. That and, uh that's. That that Is
2:09:25
Speaker 1: that's the NEXT i, think potential, big huge moment if that.
2:09:31
Speaker 1: Happens BUT i think we're a little ways away from.
2:09:35
Speaker 1: THERE i, hope you, know at some, point at some,
2:09:46
Speaker 1: point there's going to be new leadership In israel and
2:09:48
Speaker 1: we're going to get you, KNOW I i but we'll.
2:09:51
Speaker 1: See but that's the next sort of moment where there's
2:09:55
Speaker 1: going to be a challenge of lines, here right whether
2:09:59
Speaker 1: it's the where do the where where Do israel's borders
2:10:04
Speaker 1: end and? Begin you, know is there going to be
2:10:07
Speaker 1: in a two state, solution we'd be doing borders. Again
2:10:10
Speaker 1: is that going to? Happen are we going to have
2:10:13
Speaker 1: More american presidents that are pro two state solution or
2:10:17
Speaker 1: are we going to have More american presidents that no
2:10:20
Speaker 1: longer have an opinion on? It like this. One it
2:10:24
Speaker 1: had BEEN us policy to be for a two state,
2:10:26
Speaker 1: solution but it also had Been israeli policy that had
2:10:29
Speaker 1: been two state. Solution and NOW bb never talks about
2:10:31
Speaker 1: a two state solution. Anyway, ANYWAY i just you're the,
2:10:40
Speaker 1: borders you, know they've been The kurds would love to
2:10:43
Speaker 1: see him redrawn In. Iraq, right let's just SAY i
2:10:48
Speaker 1: think it's pretty, unsettled these. Borders but let's not kid, ourselves,
2:10:53
Speaker 1: Right borders get, redrawn have been redrawn a lot over
2:10:56
Speaker 1: the laste hundred. Years In, africa they've been redrawn a
2:10:58
Speaker 1: lot over the last hundred. Years In europe they've been
2:11:01
Speaker 1: redrawn a lot over the laste hundred. Years In. Asia you,
2:11:04
Speaker 1: know we focus on The Middle, east but in, fairness
2:11:07
Speaker 1: borders are more fungible than we fully appreciate, sometimes but,
2:11:14
Speaker 1: NO i don't, expect LIKE i, said the two moments
2:11:22
Speaker 1: that could sort of force this, issue or if one
2:11:25
Speaker 1: is If israel tries to an Next West bank or
2:11:28
Speaker 1: if The kurds demand their own territory basically A. Kurdistan all,
2:11:35
Speaker 1: Right next question comes From andre In. La, Anyways, Hey Chuck,
2:11:39
Speaker 1: avid listener here with a twenty twenty eight presidential. Candidate
2:11:42
Speaker 1: no one seems to be talking, About Georgia Senator Rafao.
2:11:45
Speaker 1: Warnot he's a reverend first and a senator. Second he's
2:11:47
Speaker 1: moderate from the, south and he has a rare ability
2:11:49
Speaker 1: to connect with everyday, people kitchen table, issues a tone
2:11:52
Speaker 1: the country could. Use right, Now i'll just say he's
2:11:54
Speaker 1: not the FIRST us senator to emerge as a compelling
2:11:56
Speaker 1: outsider candidate during the final turn of an unpopular president
2:11:59
Speaker 1: facing economic anxiety and an unpopular. War curious to hear
2:12:02
Speaker 1: your political, now some whether this surviable possibility best Regards. Andre,
2:12:07
Speaker 1: LOOK i think if you if you went into a
2:12:10
Speaker 1: factory and, said what's the perfect ticket for The Democratic
2:12:15
Speaker 1: party in twenty twenty, eight and you had to only
2:12:18
Speaker 1: choose between elected officials in The United States senate or
2:12:23
Speaker 1: in governor's. Mansions AND i think my LITTLE ai experiment
2:12:28
Speaker 1: would come up With Raphael warnock And Mark kelly a
2:12:33
Speaker 1: pastor in an. Astronaut, yes you, KNOW i think we
2:12:39
Speaker 1: could use a. Pastor i've been Saying america needs a
2:12:43
Speaker 1: pastor for. PATRIOTISM i don't think we know what it
2:12:46
Speaker 1: means to love this, country AND i think we could
2:12:48
Speaker 1: use somebody to help us love our country warts and,
2:12:56
Speaker 1: all and that. Patriotism sometimes it's tough. Love sometimes it's
2:13:02
Speaker 1: criticizing her. Government that's a patriotic thing to. DO i
2:13:08
Speaker 1: think a pastor, is you KNOW I i you, know
2:13:14
Speaker 1: one of my favorite segments that that my Friend Kristen
2:13:17
Speaker 1: welker doesn't meet the. Press she's done this a couple of.
2:13:19
Speaker 1: Times she's Had warnock And Jim langford on. TOGETHER i
2:13:24
Speaker 1: think they've done it. Twice they're the only two pastors
2:13:28
Speaker 1: in The. Senate one happens to be a conservative From,
2:13:31
Speaker 1: oklahoma the other happens to be a liberal From. Georgia
2:13:35
Speaker 1: and but they both really are the types of pastors
2:13:40
Speaker 1: we all, want. Right they're very they they put the
2:13:46
Speaker 1: passion in pastor. Compassionate however you want, to you, know
2:13:49
Speaker 1: if you want to play make a play on words.
2:13:51
Speaker 1: There SO I I i'm with. YOU i Think warnock
2:13:58
Speaker 1: is is a unique political, talent kind of had there's
2:14:03
Speaker 1: a little messy domestic, stuff you, know compared To, trump nothing's, messy,
2:14:10
Speaker 1: Right so it's not you, know and that percolated a
2:14:14
Speaker 1: little during His senate. Campaigns again he's running against Herschel
2:14:17
Speaker 1: walker and the trump, eras so none of, it none
2:14:19
Speaker 1: of it hit that. Hard and and you, know just
2:14:23
Speaker 1: LIKE i, think you, know, uh these, DAYS i don't
2:14:27
Speaker 1: know if any of how how much any of that,
2:14:29
Speaker 1: matters But I'm i'm with, you and and it does
2:14:36
Speaker 1: feel like he could culturally meet the. Moment you, KNOW
2:14:41
Speaker 1: i think there's something. Powerful he's not just any, pastor
2:14:44
Speaker 1: Right Martin Luther king's. CHURCH i think it's a pretty powerful.
2:14:51
Speaker 1: Place you, know that's where he preaches when he when
2:14:54
Speaker 1: he still. Preaches. Uh and so THAT'S I i, HAVE i,
2:14:58
Speaker 1: HAVE i Share you're intrigued by. Him but it's interesting
2:15:04
Speaker 1: he hasn't made too many overt attempts at you, know
2:15:09
Speaker 1: it's not like He's he's done a few of These
2:15:14
Speaker 1: Democratic party dinners in various, states but he's not certainly
2:15:17
Speaker 1: not as aggressive as Your Wes moor's Your You're Andy,
2:15:20
Speaker 1: basheer's Your Josh, shapiroz YOUR. Jb, pritzkers, Right Tavin. Newsom's
2:15:25
Speaker 1: But i'm with, you and he certainly is going to
2:15:29
Speaker 1: be if he just decides not the, Run he's going
2:15:31
Speaker 1: to be on everybody short. List you, know, LOOK i
2:15:35
Speaker 1: THINK i think Both georgia's senators and Both arizona senators
2:15:38
Speaker 1: are going to be four of the sort of the
2:15:41
Speaker 1: top eight you know most. Likely you know that that
2:15:44
Speaker 1: if you were to, say give me you have those
2:15:47
Speaker 1: four or the field of who's going to be on
2:15:49
Speaker 1: at one of these four will be on the national
2:15:51
Speaker 1: ticket either in slot one or slot, two or you
2:15:54
Speaker 1: take the. Field i'd take those four Between, Diego Kelly
2:15:59
Speaker 1: warnock and Asa. Off one of those four is going
2:16:01
Speaker 1: to be on the national ticket in twenty. Eight make
2:16:04
Speaker 1: that a colchi Bet. Andre next question comes From susan In,
2:16:08
Speaker 1: Keen New, hampshire and she, Writes, HEY i love your
2:16:11
Speaker 1: podcast and learn something new every TIME i. Listen thanks
2:16:13
Speaker 1: for your insightful. Annalynsis no, questions just a comment about The.
2:16:16
Speaker 1: Packers i'm a sixty eight year old grandmother who grew
2:16:18
Speaker 1: up In, Barry, vermont AND i, too am a Lifelong
2:16:20
Speaker 1: packers fan thanks to my, dad who loved the boys
2:16:23
Speaker 1: In green And. Gold my husband grew up in Suburban
2:16:24
Speaker 1: Saint louis and became A packers fan thanks to his.
2:16:26
Speaker 1: Dad our growing up children are also Lifelong packers, fans
2:16:29
Speaker 1: and now our granddaughters are learning to love The packers.
2:16:31
Speaker 1: Too so just to shout out to dads like yours
2:16:34
Speaker 1: and mine and my husbands who inspire their kids to
2:16:36
Speaker 1: love the team so they Love susan h And, Keen New. Hampshire,
2:16:39
Speaker 1: susan that's, Awesome thanks for sending that. OUT i got
2:16:42
Speaker 1: to make sure my boy here's that, Too and you,
2:16:45
Speaker 1: know and there's just let's be, honest we all feel
2:16:48
Speaker 1: a little bit better about ourselves that we're fans of
2:16:50
Speaker 1: the team that are owned by the, fans. Right there's
2:16:53
Speaker 1: something about the community ownership of The packers that has
2:16:55
Speaker 1: always made me feel a little extra proud to be
2:16:57
Speaker 1: A packers. Fan so take. That take. That let's say
2:17:02
Speaker 1: you're In, Key New. Hampshire take, That Pat stans all,
2:17:05
Speaker 1: Right next, Question ASPEN. M i don't think you're writing From,
2:17:10
Speaker 1: aspen or maybe it is m From aspen or It's
2:17:13
Speaker 1: aspen m Hey, Chuck tensions with A ran are. Escalating
2:17:16
Speaker 1: what does this mean for the economy businesses On american? Soil, well, any,
2:17:22
Speaker 1: look here's the thing that you learn about the energy. Markets.
2:17:28
Speaker 1: Everything if the price of energy goes, up the price
2:17:32
Speaker 1: of everything goes, up everything and everybody starts adding. Surcharges
2:17:38
Speaker 1: transportation charges go, up so then deliveries start to. Rise
2:17:44
Speaker 1: everything goes. Up you also will have supply chain, issues
2:17:49
Speaker 1: especially if we have. Disruptions you, know we'll see how
2:17:53
Speaker 1: open the strait actually. Is right for two, weeks we'll
2:17:56
Speaker 1: see how this. Goes but it's, uh that's the scary
2:18:04
Speaker 1: thing about these. Things there's not a business it doesn't.
2:18:07
Speaker 1: Touch there is not a bad and, oh by the,
2:18:09
Speaker 1: way this increases the cost of certain investments in THE
2:18:13
Speaker 1: ai industry. Too the cost of energy goes, up then
2:18:18
Speaker 1: the cost of energy goes up for, everything including how
2:18:22
Speaker 1: much it costs THESE ai businesses to use the massive
2:18:26
Speaker 1: amount of computer technology that they. Need and then, finally
2:18:32
Speaker 1: last question for the day comes From Joshua. Bee it's
2:18:35
Speaker 1: also a twenty twenty eight. Question could a southern dam
2:18:37
Speaker 1: Like Andy, Basher John ossoff Put florida back into plane twenty.
2:18:39
Speaker 1: EIGHT i don't think so. YET i do think that
2:18:49
Speaker 1: there's been when you look at the population increases in
2:18:53
Speaker 1: the state where they've come, from they've they've gone into
2:18:56
Speaker 1: more conservative. Areas SO i think we've got a way
2:19:00
Speaker 1: to go BEFORE I i think it's more likely that
2:19:06
Speaker 1: A southern dem LIKE i actually Think mississippi is more
2:19:10
Speaker 1: likely to flip in the electoral college Before florida at this,
2:19:14
Speaker 1: POINT i think it's more cost. Effective BUT i do
2:19:19
Speaker 1: think if you had a Particularly Andy, basher that there
2:19:23
Speaker 1: are sort of sort of centrist white Suburban democrats or
2:19:31
Speaker 1: white Suburban republicans excuse, me who are not comfortable with
2:19:34
Speaker 1: THE maga world who And Andy basher would be the
2:19:37
Speaker 1: type Of democrat they could they could be. With you,
2:19:43
Speaker 1: Know florida is not a clean southern state. CULTURALLY i
2:19:47
Speaker 1: think Culturally bashir could match the culture Of mississippi in some.
2:19:50
Speaker 1: Ways AND i also don't know of asoff necessarily could
2:19:57
Speaker 1: could could do, that SO i could See basher. Helping,
2:20:00
Speaker 1: Really LIKE i, SAID i think In mississippi's more likely
2:20:02
Speaker 1: to get more competitive Than florida in the short, look
2:20:07
Speaker 1: let's see what happens with The latino vote in twenty
2:20:10
Speaker 1: six AND i might revise my. Answer if the next
2:20:13
Speaker 1: governor Of florida wins by less than five, points THEN
2:20:16
Speaker 1: i might revive my answer and, say h maybe it's in,
2:20:19
Speaker 1: play but let's see what that margin is first before
2:20:23
Speaker 1: we start fully Bringing florida back into the battle. Round all, Right,
2:20:33
Speaker 1: well crisis. AVERTED i guess it's kind of. Nice when
2:20:37
Speaker 1: we started, this we weren't one hundred percent, sure and
2:20:38
Speaker 1: now WHEN i ended, this we know for. Sure but
2:20:41
Speaker 1: that's life in The trump. Era it. IS i always say,
2:20:46
Speaker 1: this every day is like writing a roller. Coaster and
2:20:49
Speaker 1: just like a roller, coaster you get off in the
2:20:52
Speaker 1: same place you get. On you may go topsy, turvy
2:20:55
Speaker 1: you may go upside, down you may go all over the,
2:20:57
Speaker 1: Place but you know what you don't. Do he don't
2:21:00
Speaker 1: make any, progress and he don't move, forward and sometimes
2:21:04
Speaker 1: he'll wobble. Backwards with, That i'll see in twenty four,
2:21:07
Speaker 1: hours