Latest / INSIGHT OUT / Is Amazon's Delivery Problem About to Get Worse? | The InSight Out Show | Ep. 146

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Is Amazon's Delivery Problem About to Get Worse? | The InSight Out Show | Ep. 146 · INSIGHT OUT

• 0:00
  The InSight Outshow.
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  Faith that changes how you live.
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  New York City wants to change how packages get to our front doors.
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  A proposed law called the Delivery Protection Act would generally require
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  certain large delivery facilities to hire drivers directly instead of
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  relying on outside delivery companies.
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  Mayor Zoran Mandami supports it.
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  Supporters say it will make streets safer, protect workers, and hold big
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  companies like Amazon accountable.
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  Opponents say that it could put independent delivery
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  businesses out of business.
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  Now, maybe you're thinking, "Well, I don't live in New York City, so
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  why do I care about this?" Well, I think we should because some of
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  the problems behind this bill are happening in our own neighborhoods.
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  And when a city as big as New York starts changing the rules for a
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  company as big as Amazon, I think other cities start to pay attention.
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  In fact, Chicago is already considering its own version of this, and it could
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  even affect what we pay for deliveries.
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  Thanks for being here.
• 0:58
  Welcome to the InSight Out Show.
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  I'm Devin Almonte.
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  On Tuesdays, we go deeper into one story, not just to be informed, but to be formed.
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  And a quick reminder before we get started, the InSight Out Show
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  is produced by InSight Out Media, our Christian media nonprofit.
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  James 1:22 tells us, "Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive
• 1:15
  yourselves, do what it says." And that's what we're all about.
• 1:18
  We want what we believe to actually change how we live.
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  helps produce the show, creates more content and resources, and
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  expands what we're doing through InSight Out Media.
• 1:30
  You can learn more at insightoutmedia.org.
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  Let's say it's around 9:45 at night and you are on your couch in your PJs.
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  You see the headlights shine through the window.
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  You peek through the blinds and there is an unmarked white van outside.
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  Somebody in regular clothes, no uniform, no visible badge, and they
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  start walking up your driveway.
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  Who in the world is this?
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  Then you hear it, that box hitting your front door.
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  Oh, thank goodness, it is just the delivery guy delivering my glass dishes.
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  Most of the time it's nothing to worry about, but back in episode
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  143, I shared a story about a homeowner who nearly shot a delivery
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  driver who was just doing his job:
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  Tim Bacco is the man who was in handcuffs Monday night after he admits he chased
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  an Amazon delivery driver in his car A strange vehicle come down the driveway.
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  I saw it was a rental van.
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  I went out to confront it.
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  He took off, so I jumped in my vehicle and took off after him.
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  Pulled in front of him to question to see who he was.
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  He couldn't speak English, and I drew my pistol on him.
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  You know, I'm sorry it happened.
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  It's unfortunate.
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  Um, but I think there's ways to prevent it.
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  Um, stop, introduce yourself, show me a badge.
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  Communication's key.
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  That's an extreme example.
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  Obviously, most of what goes wrong is a lot more ordinary than that.
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  Packages that are thrown onto the porch, they get left in the grass.
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  Sometimes they're stuck in the rain.
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  Uh, might be your mailbox gets knocked over, and sometimes it's your car.
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  I had a FedEx driver delivering some pretty heavy stuff that I
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  ordered from Amazon, actually.
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  Uh, several boxes, probably 200, 300 pounds altogether.
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  The guy, of course, seemed to be in a hurry, and as he was unloading the dolly,
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  two of those giant boxes fell right into my car, and I was standing right there.
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  I watched the whole thing happen, and my stupid solar-powered Ring
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  camera that we have for the driveway captured absolutely none of this.
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  Well, the one time that I needed it, it didn't record.
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  So now I've got a dent in my car and scratches on the front of it.
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  I figured, "It's FedEx. I'll file a claim, and we'll figure this out." But
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  no, between FedEx, the claim process, the possibility of independent contractors
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  being involved in this, getting somebody to take responsibility has not been easy.
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  Months later, we are still trying to get this resolved.
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  So maybe you have dealt with something like this.
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  You know how frustrating it can be.
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  And what we want is really basic stuff.
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  We want drivers that we can identify, cars that we can recognize, packages
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  delivered safely that aren't thrown across the yard, and when something goes wrong,
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  we want people to take responsibility.
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  So today, I want to look at what New York is proposing, what it maybe gets right on
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  some levels, what it gets wrong, and when something goes wrong at our front door,
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  who is actually responsible for fixing it?
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  Because I think the answer might include us.
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  But first I think it helps to know who's actually ringing our doorbell,
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  because these days, especially with Amazon, it's not as simple as it sounds.
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  That driver wearing the Amazon vest and maybe driving the Amazon van, he might
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  not actually work directly for Amazon.
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  Many of these drivers work for independent businesses called
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  delivery service partners.
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  They are separate companies that hire drivers to deliver a lot of
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  the Amazon packages, and the driver who shows up in the sweatpants and
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  maybe a shirt is typically in his own car, and that's probably what we
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  refer to as an Amazon Flex driver, an independent contractor, a lot like
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  somebody that is driving for DoorDash.
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  This is where the supporters of the Delivery Protection
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  Act say there's a problem.
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  Council member Tiffany Caban, who introduced the bill, argues that these
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  big companies control most of the delivery operation, but they are able to
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  distance themselves , from responsibility because somebody else employs the driver.
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  So if you get a flat tire, it's on the contractor.
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  Accident?
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  That's on the contractor.
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  Angry homeowner chasing you down the street?
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  Yeah, that's gonna be on the contractor.
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  listen to what she told ABC 7 News:
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  Teamsters, council members, and the mayor say the Delivery Protection
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  Act must pass to hold Amazon and other companies accountable.
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  Something goes sideways, they want to turn around and say that Amazon
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  has nothing to do with it, but it has Amazon literally written all over it.
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  Supporters saying Amazon's subcontracting system shields the company and
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  others like it from responsibility and doesn't protect workers.
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  Think about the pressure on the drivers themselves.
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  Go on TikTok and you will find delivery drivers talking about the
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  insane number of stops that they make in a day or how hard that can be.
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  They're not exaggerating:
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  I just finished 300 packages in four hours, 170 stops a day.
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  I don't even know what it is, but you can tell that I'm perspirating out of my head.
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  Yo, today, I just came in.
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  200 stops, y'all.
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  Like, yo, 200?
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  Like, come on, bro.
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  Like, this is getting out of hand, bro.
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  I had 100 yesterday.
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  I'm delivering anywhere from 300 to 400 packages a day.
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  A typical day, oh, I always exceed 300, um- 300 to 400
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  packages … to 400 packages.
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  It's become the new normal for 350 packages.
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  Years ago, that was only during peak would you ever see 350 packages.
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  Now it's gone crazy.
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  That's right.
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  Yeah, me personally, um, I'll pee in bottles at work every day.
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  I mean, it's, like, a common thing that we're doing, you know?
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  On the last six months, I think I've used the pu- public restroom about five times.
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  You don't even have time between stops to- No, because we're held to a quota.
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  That is a stop every few minutes with traffic, weather, apartment buildings,
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  dogs that you gotta deal with, many boxes per house to deal with.
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  So when somebody is running up our driveway, drops these
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  packages off, and takes off, I, I mean, it makes you understand a
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  little bit better why they do so.
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  But, you know, they're not necessarily being careless because they want to.
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  Maybe they're being careless 'cause they don't have time to care.
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  So that could explain some of it.
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  Not all of it, but some of it.
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  Let's talk about what this delivery act would actually change.
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  Large delivery facilities would need a city license for a fee,
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  of course, and they would have to meet safety and training
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  requirements for a fee, of course.
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  Including things like putting the company's name on drivers'
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  clothes and vehicles, which I like.
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  But the biggest change out of this is that these facilities would have to hire their
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  delivery and warehouse workers directly instead of contracting the work out.
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  And supporters say that makes big companies accountable and gives
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  the workers stronger protections
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  Okay, but here's what I wanna know, because you might do all this, but
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  changing who employs the driver, does that change the pressure that they're
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  under or the treatment of employees?
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  Because the bill doesn't limit how many stops a driver can
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  be assigned, and it shouldn't.
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  I'm not suggesting government should start setting delivery
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  quotas for other companies.
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  But if the driver is still racing through 150 stops a day, what really
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  changes for the driver or the customer?
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  Plus, I think it could hurt the very people that it is meant to
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  protect, or at least that's who they're saying it's meant to protect.
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  These independent delivery companies, they're typically not giant corporations.
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  A lot of them are local businesses.
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  A friend of mine, her husband started one of these.
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  He invested his own money, hired employees, and he built one of these
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  third-party companies And now these companies could lose their businesses:
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  a lot of my workers come to me, they're like, "Hey, Rudy, what's
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  gonna happen? What's gonna happen to my job?" For seven years, Rudy
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  Cazares has run his veteran-owned and operated company, serving as a
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  delivery service provider for Amazon.
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  But he says if the Mayor Mamdani Delivery Protection Act becomes law,
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  that would be the end of his business.
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  It would put me out of business.
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  It would put all my workers out of business.
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  Cazares is not alone.
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  The other side is painting a view that isn't correct.
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  It'll put my job at risk and a lot of other people's jobs.
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  The New York Delivers Coalition saying that the bill would put 10,000 jobs,
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  80% minority workers, out of work.
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  Let's talk about the facts.
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  Let's remove the political theater.
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  We're talking about real jobs.
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  Then there's our cash, our wallet.
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  Amazon said that these changes could make deliveries slower, it
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  could make them more expensive.
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  One study, it was funded by an Amazon-backed group, so keep
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  that in mind, but they estimate that it could cost an average New
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  York household about $664 a year.
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  When it costs a company more to deliver, that cost usually lands somewhere,
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  which is usually on the consumer.
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  If you went through with this, and you made Amazon hire these workers directly,
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  would that even fix the problem?
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  Look at our post office.
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  Most of these carriers who bring mail to our house are hired
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  directly by the post office.
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  There's not typically a middleman.
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  Exactly the setup that this bill wants for Amazon.
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  And if you've ever had to deal with the post office, you know
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  what that experience can be like.
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  There are a lot of great workers talking about the, the company in general.
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  There are a lot of complaints that come through, how workers are treated.
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  This summer at a huge postal service sorting facility, this is outside
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  Atlanta, the postal workers union called for an investigation after
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  four employees died on the job.
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  Now, they died of natural causes, not workplace accidents, but the
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  union said the workers didn't even have a reliable way to call for help:
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  deidra Dukes has been following the updates from the United
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  States Postal Workers Union.
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  They've been talking a little bit about the deaths, four deaths, Deidra, I
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  understand, at the Palmetto facility, and I understand that, uh, the postal workers
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  say that these deaths were avoidable.
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  That's right.
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  We're joining you live, Ariel, from the regional processing
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  and distribution center.
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  Union officials now call it a dangerous workplace.
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  I'm gonna do what I gotta do to protect my employees.
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  It might not have been the Postal Service if it was a heart attack or a
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  stroke, but it is the responsibility of the Postal Service to give
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  them a fighting chance to survive.
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  Now, the American Postal Workers Union rep also says poor cell phone service,
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  the lack of on-site defibrillators, and no trained emergency personnel have delayed
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  life-saving care in multiple cases here.
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  I get that the post office is federal.
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  This is a local bill.
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  But if direct employment hasn't solved the problems over there, it's, I think,
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  fair to ask, well, how is it going to solve them over here in New York City?
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  All that said, I am not defending corporate greed.
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  I don't like companies cutting corners and pushing workers too
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  hard or making customers jump through hoops to resolve issues.
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  But not every problem that we have calls for government to
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  take more control of businesses.
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  Just as an example to bring home this point, imagine you go out to dinner,
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  and your dinner, let's say you get a nice steak, it comes out cold.
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  Now, instead of talking to the waiter or waitress or the manager about this
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  issue that you need your meal hot, you decide that we have to go to our
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  government to pass the Hot Dinner Protection Act because this is just wrong.
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  Why can't we first just ask somebody as a citizen, as a customer of this
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  restaurant to heat up the food?
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  Government has a role at times in keeping businesses safe.
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  Deciding how that business is allowed to operate is another thing.
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  So where does that leave us as consumers?
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  The people, y- you and I, we are at our front door wondering if it's an intruder
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  coming or is it just the Amazon guy?
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  Here's what bothers me the most about this.
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  We have gotten so used to feeling powerless over these situations that
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  we hand everything to the government.
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  A problem shows up at our front door, and we wait for a politician to fix it.
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  When we feel powerless, we're just glad somebody is doing something,
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  or at least they say they're doing something , and we don't even stop
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  to ask if it's the right thing.
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  We just want something done.
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  And this bill sounds good.
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  It's protection.
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  It's safety.
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  Who could be against that?
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  , Proverbs 18 verse 17 says, "In a lawsuit, the first to speak seems right until
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  someone comes forward and cross-examines."
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  So let's be the ones that come forward.
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  We ask the questions, who benefits, who gets hurt, and does this
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  actually solve the problem?
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  We're not as powerless as we feel.
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  And I know what some of you are thinking, "This is a waste of time.
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  I don't have the time for this. These big companies aren't gonna
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  listen to me." And maybe they won't.
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  But saying or doing nothing means nothing will change.
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  So here is what I thought we could try.
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  It might fail, but we gotta try.
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  I wanna hear your front door stories, the package that got tossed in the
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  yard and was damaged, the unmarked van that freaked you out or your kids late
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  at night, the guy that has no uniform that you almost called the police on.
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  Damage to your house, damage to your car like mine.
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  I'm going to put a link in the show notes.
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  Tell us what happened, whether it was Amazon, FedEx, UPS,
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  DoorDash, anybody who shows up
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  to your door like this.
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  We want to collect your stories, and then through the holidays, we're
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  gonna put them together and send them straight to the companies involved.
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  And then depending on how it goes, I will come back and tell you what they
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  said And if I could just fix one thing, if I can put in my request, it would be
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  to make every driver easy to identify.
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  A uniform, a badge, a marked car.
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  Something that tells me before
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  he reaches my door that they are there to drop off a package,
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  for his sake and our sake.
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  Sometimes it takes a few of us standing up together saying,
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  "This needs to be better."
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  We can extend grace and still expect accountability.
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  So what do you think?
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  Should cities force companies like Amazon to hire their own drivers, let me know.
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  I read your comments, and I do respond.
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  And please share this episode with somebody who might enjoy the conversation.
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  My hope and prayer is that all of this helps us think more deeply, see more
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  clearly, and live more faithfully.
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  I'm Devin Almonte.
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  Thanks for listening.
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  Now let's live InSight Out.