Latest / Common Sense Ohio / We Reflect on 9/11, Public Memory, and the Mandami Controversy

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We Reflect on 9/11, Public Memory, and the Mandami Controversy · Common Sense Ohio

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September 9, 2026.
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Common Sense, Ohio.
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It's been a couple weeks since your dose of common sense, so we thought we'd bring the.
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Bring the whole tribe today.
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Yeah, right.
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Turns out this day, well, first of all, brought to you, of course, by Harper plus Accounting.
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Talk to Glenn Harper on the way up.
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Today we have our every.
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Every now and then in the mornings, we have a quick chat about life and liberty and the pursuit of taxes and our accountant could be yours.
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Harper plus Accounting, look them up online.
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Sorry, I got distracted there.
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It turns out on September 9, 1776, the Continental Congress formally declares the name of the brand new nation, the United States of America.
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Nice.
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Before that, we were the United colonies of America, but we decided that we were going to be states instead.
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So the United States of America was created on this.
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Or the founding Fathers or the Continental Congress created the United States of America this day.
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1776.
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If you think about that, we had only just declared independence a few months before that in July.
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And so all these guys were still on their warrants out for their arrest for treason and everything else, and they.
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Were losing the war at this point.
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Yeah, we were getting our asses kicked until, you know, essentially December.
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Things started to change after we crossed the Delaware and defeated the Hessians.
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But anyway, interesting history there.
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Also turns out this day, and let me get this one right, I want to screw this one up.
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Maybe I am going to screw it up.
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1956, Elvis appears for the first time on the Ed Sullivan Show.
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He was a hunk of burning love.
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And then two more times he appeared after that.
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But anyway, with that, I guess we can start the news.
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Yeah, well, we should follow up.
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Last time we talked, the Clancy case, jury was about to deliberate.
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It turned out they're a hung jury.
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Mistrial declared and dismissed the case.
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Which leaves the prosecution, what, like five different options?
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They can.
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They cannot try her.
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They can.
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They can come back with the same charges.
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They could come back with lower charges.
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They could try to do a plea agreement.
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Yep.
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There's lots of options.
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There's lots of options.
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What do you think, Steve?
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What?
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You know, what's your gut tell you with them having essentially spent all this time, lost the case?
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Well, not, you know, I mean, a lot of time has been spent, a lot of resources.
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Well, you know, whenever we have a trial like this, I've tried plenty.
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And you get a mistrial or a hung jury.
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There is nothing more deflating, I think, for both sides, really.
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Because if you've ever deleted a term paper by accident back in the day before we had cloud storage and all this stuff.
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This, this was a pretty common thing.
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Yeah.
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And in the beginning of the computer age, that happened to me a couple of times.
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There was no cloud, so it's gone.
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Yeah.
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Your.
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Your computer blew up or something happened.
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And where people had those little brother typewriters and something happened.
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There is nothing more frustrating than having to do something you've already done again.
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And I've always said that I believe maybe not a hundred percent, but 95, that the retrial typically helps the prosecutor.
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I'm a defense.
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But it may be.
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This may be an exception.
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I don't know.
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Okay.
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Because they can polish their arguments.
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They.
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Yeah.
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Learned what the blowback's going to be from the other.
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And they anticipate.
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Ordinarily, the government is holding the cards.
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Now, again, this case may be an exception because of the, the uniqueness of it, but ordinarily the government's holding the cards.
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And we benefit from the element of surprise as defense lawyers.
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You know, we have, we have our tricks of the trade.
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We have cross examinations that the witnesses aren't ready to answer questions exactly the way we're going to.
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We're going to ask them.
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Okay.
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And once you've played those cards, once you've shown your hand, you sort of educate the other side.
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Now, the same could be said for the prosecution's case, but we generally know that going in.
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Yeah.
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So I don't know what the prosecutor do.
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The split here, 11 to 1 in favor of acquittal by reason of insanity is going to.
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I think that's probably going to influence what happens next.
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It could very well be the prosecutor is just going to bang the table and say, you know what?
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We don't care.
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11 to one be damned.
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We're going forward.
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We're going to prosecute her.
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It may be that there's some sort of plea agreement that is reached, and it may be that.
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That they try to get.
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And hang it again.
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I mean, these kind of things happen.
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Let me ask you a question that I did not know this.
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So my understanding is, and I don't know if this is common amongst all the states or if this is just particular to the state where this case is.
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But my understanding is, if you want to do a defense based on, well, not innocence, but lack of mental capacity or insanity, that you have to get the judge's permission.
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Is that correct?
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To.
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To.
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To.
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To proffer that defense, you, you can't just, you can't just do that.
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You have to do a sec.
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You have to do an initial step and get the judge to approve that.
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You can proffer that, well, Massachusetts is.
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Is unique.
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And I don't know the answer to that question in Massachusetts, but I do know this.
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It is the only state that I know about.
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There may be others.
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Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Leave in the comments that require the government to prove that somebody is, quote, criminally responsible at the time of the crime was committed beyond a reasonable doubt.
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And that means the government has to disprove, in this case, insanity.
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In Ohio and most states, it's going to be the opposite.
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Okay.
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We would have to come in and proffer some sort of evidence, make a threshold showing of insanity in order to even get the judge to instruct the jury on the defense of not guilty by reason of insanity.
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Okay.
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Then the burden is typically on the defense to come forward with evidence in front of the jury and to establish your client is legally insane.
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In Ohio, we had adopted, you probably remember, from law school, there's an old test called the monotonous rule.
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Yeah.
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M N A U G H T E N rule, which basically means that you don't understand right from wrong and you therefore couldn't appreciate the nature and circumstances of what you did.
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I probably butchered the definition, but that's basically it.
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Basically, yeah.
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That's.
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That's what I remember.
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There's a different standard in Massachusetts that I think made this outcome almost inevitable.
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Okay.
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I mean, even so, I look at my.
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It's funny.
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My son called me from the Army.
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The prosecution has to prove that.
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That something's not happening.
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Not happening.
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Right.
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Which is always.
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And my son called me last night, and he and his army buddies were like, dad, tell us about.
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You know, we're arguing about this, and I could hear the guys in the background saying, this is bs.
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She killed those kids.
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And she should go.
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And I said, all right, Matthew, I've got two different hats that I wear.
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I've got the criminal defense attorney hat or the lawyer hat where I can look at the law, analyze it, and say, what should the outcome be?
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And I've got what I morally believe.
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I don't think that.
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And they're different here.
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Sure, Absolutely.
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Yeah.
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I don't know what I would have done in this case if I were on the jury, because I've read the instructions and the government had to disprove one of the following.
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That at the time of the alleged crime, defendant did not suffer from a mental disease or defect.
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Or that if the defendant did suffer from a mental disease or defect, he nonetheless retained the substantial capacity to appreciate the wrongfulness or criminality of his conduct and to conform his conduct to the requirements of law.
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So that's an either or so in mental defect.
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Let me see if I got a definition for that.
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It's not a clinical definition.
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It is a legal term, not a medical term.
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It need not fit into a formal medical diagnosis.
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The phrase mental disease or defect does not include abnormality characterized only by repeat criminal conduct.
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It is for you to determine, in light of all the evidence, whether the defendant had a mental disease or defect.
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The Commonwealth has proved to you beyond reasonable doubt the defendant was not suffering from a mental disease or defect at the time of the killing.
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The Commonwealth has satisfied his burden of proving defendant was criminally responsible.
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I don't know that I would have voted.
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I.
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I might have.
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I would have probably acquitted her.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Just from what I watched, I think clearly she had a mental disease or defect.
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And there may be more nuance to it.
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Yeah.
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Under their definition.
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But under that standard, now, I could hear their.
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Yeah, that's BS.
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Look, I agree.
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I don't like the law.
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I don't like the way that's written.
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But if you've taken an oath as a juror to follow law, like, beyond a reasonable doubt.
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Does anybody think that this woman didn't have a mental disease or defect?
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I mean, she.
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It's almost, you know, the thing speaks for race.
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It speaks for itself.
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In law, we call it race.
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It's a little.
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I guess.
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I guess that's why the prosecution kept banging on the instructions that she gave the husband to leave the house, go shopping in order to give her time to commit these murders, was the, you know, the argument.
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And that somehow that proved that she was lucid.
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Yeah, that.
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That she understood she was about to do something wrong.
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Because otherwise, if she was doing something right, she wouldn't keep, you know, she.
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She wouldn't tell the husband to leave the house, but because she's.
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Because she understood it was wrong.
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That's why she got rid of.
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Of somebody who could stop her.
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Yeah.
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I mean, that's, I guess, what the prosecution would hang its hat on.
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Like.
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Well, if you look at the contemporaneous things that she was doing leading immediately up to the murders, she seemed to be in control of the events.
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Yeah.
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And that's because the elements have to line up at the time of the offense.
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In other words, you have to, you know, at the time she commits the crime.
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Now, sometimes this helps the defense, sometimes it doesn't.
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Yeah, sure.
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But what the prosecutor is arguing, look, this doesn't line up.
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I mean, she knew what she was going to do and therefore planned it.
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And that was the best argument they had.
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Yeah.
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But beyond that, you know, as opposed.
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To the kid spits up at supper and you snap and she just snaps and murders a kid.
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Like, no, she.
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So this is.
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Got rid of somebody.
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Like it was planned as premeditated.
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And.
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And I'm no expert on Massachusetts law here.
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Yeah.
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This would take a dive into the research.
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Right.
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But it's.
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This lines up, you know, it sort of.
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It fits under the fingers of a defense.
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Yeah, yeah.
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You know, so in Ohio, did you not, Professor.
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I'm not sure I followed you, Professor.
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But in Ohio, then I think you said that in order for the defense to offer an insanity defense, they do need the judge here in Ohio to approve that instruction that they're not allowed to just.
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You can't just say, hey, jury, she was insane.
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And you know, blah, you know.
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Yeah.
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So generally what happens in Ohio and insanity, at the arraignment or even after the arraignment, you can change your plea, but at your.
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Raymond, where you're entering a plea, be either not guilty or guilty, you can also enter a plea called not guilty by reason of insanity.
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Okay.
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Sort of triggers a certain protocol.
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Okay.
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The defendant's going to be evaluated, and if you can't pay for that as the defense, the government will do it.
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And even if you can't pay for it, the government gets to do their own.
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Do you just get to do that, Steve, or does yes, somebody have to sign off that you're allowed to do?
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You can enter that plea.
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Now, if you get all the evaluations back.
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And I've had this happen where I've entered a not guilty plea by reason of insanity, I get the evaluations back and the government's expert says, now this person's perfectly sane under Ohio law because there's people that.
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Whose jobs it is to do that thing or to do these types of evaluations.
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Yeah.
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And maybe we get our own, and maybe they even our own would agree.
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I've got to come into court with evidence to show some threshold showing that I'm entitled to a not guilty by reason of insanity.
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And I've had this line up this way where I said, be damned, experts.
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Who says I need an expert?
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I'm going to come in and present evidence that my client didn't know right from wrong and therefore is entitled to it.
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I've never had to play that all the way out the law is not great for us.
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So typically when you want a jury instruction on a defense or anything else, the record, there's got to be some, it's got to be one, a true statement of law and two, supported by the facts in the record.
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Okay.
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If you don't have facts in the record to meet even a threshold showing a definition, you run the risk of the, of not getting that instruction.
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Okay.
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And that is a judge's decision.
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That's a judge's decision.
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That's it.
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And I've had this come.
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I fought a judge one time because he wasn't going to give me a self defense instruction.
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And he said, well, you didn't say it was self defense.
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And I said bs I didn't.
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And it was like, yes, huh?
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Yes, huh.
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Okay, get out the court reporter's little tape.
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Yeah, I, I argued this.
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My client said that.
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And here's what the evidence is.
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I can I get self defense.
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And the problem, the, the, the problem is in Massachusetts, it's all flipped upside down.
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You know, there is no, it seems to be.
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It's a, it's a threshold requirement that the government has to establish your criminally responsible from get go.
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Yeah.
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And that sort of turns it all into your.
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Wow.
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Okay, well, so I again, I might.
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Have quit her and yeah.
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On this, wearing this hat, I might have quit her over here.
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I'm thinking, look, she planned this.
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She wanted to do this.
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Clearly she knew it was wrong, otherwise she wouldn't have tried to kill herself right afterwards.
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I mean, yeah, you know, there's easy arguments to make.
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Yeah.
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But that's not the standard Massachusetts.
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So maybe whatever Massachusetts calls murder two or even though it doesn't really fit the facts, this manslaughter possibility, there may.
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Be some lesser offense here that she pleads to.
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But look, if you're the defense here, what would you do?
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You know, if they're offering a decade in prison versus life in prison, do you take it might retry this thing.
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Now, could you do a plea agreement that somebody is committed to a mental institution for life?
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I mean, is that.
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I don't think so.
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Usually what happens.
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And again, this is, there's going to be.
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You remember in law school there's the classes that some people just loved, like legislation.
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We had to read rules and go to like subsection this and 111 va.
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But it's more mechanical.
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You have to dig into those nuances.
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But generally speaking, under Massachusetts law that I read, somebody is committed to a mental institution and, but if they get restored, they can be Released.
14:54
Okay.
14:54
And if they're already restored, they can be released.
14:56
So the prosecution won't have the satisfaction in knowing that they put her away and the key's gone.
15:01
Not necessarily.
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Okay.
15:02
And I don't know that the defense could agree to that either.
15:05
You know, that would be a, that would be an evaluator and a judge decision.
15:08
Okay.
15:10
Maybe there's some procedure where you invent a legal fiction.
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You go to the judge and say, just do this.
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This is what we want.
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Want.
15:16
But my guess is you're sort of fighting the bureaucracy at that point.
15:20
Well, turning to some other things then, Steve, thank you for that.
15:25
It seems to me the two biggest things kind of roiling in the public discourse this week is, is all wrapped up with the midterm elections.
15:37
And there's so many factors that are going into, you know, the election that's gonna, well, it's, it's already underway in some states, I imagine, with absentee balloting and mail balloting.
15:54
But at any rate, the, the war In Iran, socialism, 911 anniversary, uh, there's just a lot of threads that are going through that are all coming up here in the Next, less than 60 days before the midterms.
16:18
And starting today, down in Dallas, Texas, the Republicans are having a, a unique event.
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They, they've never done this before.
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The Democrats have done it.
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They're not doing it anymore.
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But up until, I don't know, 15, 20 years ago, they used to do a midterm convention.
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Now the Republicans are trying it in Dallas.
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And my understanding is today JD Vance is the featured speaker.
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And there was talk about Trump doing that tonight.
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It's unclear to me.
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I've heard conflicting reports about whether Trump is tonight also or whether he is tomorrow night.
17:00
But, but be that as it may, it's a two day event down in Dallas and it seems to me that both parties are very fractured right now.
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The Democrats or you know, the, what I will call the moderate, you know, however you calculate that today, like Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer, you know, would be viewed today as moderates, I suppose.
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And the, the Democrat socialists like Bernie and AOC and Mamdani and that whole crowd would be seen as, I guess, the insurgents.
17:47
And on the Republican side, you've got people way out there like Tucker Carlson and Massey down in Kentucky who lost.
17:57
Marjorie Taylor Greene coming out.
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All these people, it's like, yeah, they're.
18:00
Just like, they want to start, we.
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Want to take back maga, blah, blah, blah.
18:05
Yeah.
18:05
And things are really messed up.
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And, and then Trump, you know, Steve, just to throw gas on the fire.
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Trump and Vance come out with, I just can't wrap my head around this.
18:16
They want to reallocate child care money to married couples.
18:21
And I get the unfairness, Right.
18:23
Okay, so they're giving child care subsidies.
18:28
It's not even a tax credit, but actually, like, nine grand is going to single moms, mainly 80.
18:36
So there's 870,000 families.
18:39
Not people, but families.
18:41
That's a lot of, you know, that.
18:42
That's probably translated into 3 or 4 million people.
18:46
But 870,000 families in the United States get child care stipends.
18:52
They get money from the government to spend on child care.
18:55
And Vance is saying, well, why do we just give that money to more or less single or indigent people?
19:02
What about married people that could use this money?
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And so he wants to reallocate.
19:08
He's like, well, you had kids, I had kids.
19:11
You know, I could have used nine grand, you know, But I mean, here we go, man.
19:15
It just is.
19:16
It's just more.
19:17
It's the same.
19:18
And you're giving out free money.
19:20
Look, we can't fight the dole.
19:24
Like.
19:25
Like, look, that's the.
19:26
That's the socialist side.
19:28
Yeah.
19:28
It's like, I don't think we beat the socialists by becoming socialists.
19:31
Yeah.
19:31
It's like we're putting sprinkles on top of the free cupcakes.
19:34
Yeah.
19:35
I.
19:35
I don't.
19:36
I don't know.
19:38
It seems to me that you've got the other side.
19:40
The old saying, like, don't interrupt when the other side's screwing up.
19:43
I mean, they're screwing up.
19:44
Yeah, they are.
19:45
I mean, they hate the country.
19:46
They're saying it out loud.
19:48
9, 11 is coming.
19:49
I mean, what.
19:49
They're not delivering, Steve.
19:51
And they're not delivering.
19:52
Right.
19:52
They're screwing up.
19:53
Like, Mom, Donnie's made free buses.
19:56
He can't make it happen.
19:57
Right.
19:57
It's never going to happen.
19:58
And.
19:58
And instead we're doing this other nonsense.
20:00
I mean, we're.
20:01
We're bogged.
20:02
Like I've said from the beginning, I have no problem with the Iran.
20:04
More get it done.
20:06
And they didn't.
20:07
And they didn't.
20:10
Dilly dally, dilly dallying, dilly coming in and out.
20:13
All these agreements, like, just go in and take car, guys.
20:16
Whatever you had to do, get it done.
20:17
And people would have forgotten by now.
20:18
Yeah.
20:19
Instead, here we are, we're still farting around with it, and I don't doubt that we're winning economically.
20:24
And I don't doubt we're winning.
20:25
Were you on the road over Labor Day at all?
20:28
Did you?
20:28
I was not.
20:29
I was.
20:30
And traveling through several states.
20:33
Diesel is over $6.50.
20:36
It's in, we pass station after station and I'm looking at the truckers and the highways are full of trucks, but they're paying over $6.50 a gallon.
20:47
Right.
20:47
Well, no wonder we got inflation going nuts.
20:50
Yeah.
20:50
It's this didn't you needed to go in.
20:52
And I, look, I like Trump for doing this.
20:54
I appreciate what Trump was doing.
20:56
Yeah.
20:56
A nuclear Iran is not going to.
20:59
Go in, take a stand.
21:01
But then he didn't get it done and he has these wishy washy messages behind it.
21:05
This is what I've never, I've always been had a problem with this with Trump always this wishy washy.
21:10
And now we're taking on Canada again.
21:11
It's like, this is not the time for this.
21:13
Yeah, yeah, it's not the time for this.
21:15
For a guy who executed that Venezuelan put down so effectively, like it's already forgotten.
21:23
Like, like in one day.
21:24
Like if you'd done that with.
21:25
And look, Iran's a little bit bigger fish, but yeah, could have been done in two weeks.
21:29
It could have been just take or,.
21:30
Or at least two months.
21:32
Yeah.
21:32
I mean, at the, you know, and I remember general after general after general all through the spring and early summer saying, my God, end it.
21:42
End it.
21:42
Get this thing done.
21:43
End it.
21:44
And the problem is it feels worse, though.
21:47
It feels like we got played a little bit by Iran.
21:49
It does.
21:49
And that, that, that makes it hurt even more.
21:51
Yes.
21:52
And so, but look, if you want to turn back the clock, it really goes back to the Trump tariffs, you know, Liberation Day.
21:58
That's when his, that's when his popularity tanked.
22:01
Like him like those tariffs or didn't like those tariffs, that's when everything sort of tanked.
22:07
And he hasn't recovered from that.
22:08
And I think he hasn't recovered from that because of Iran.
22:10
And yeah, I don't.
22:13
And now 50% tariff with Canada, it just, it's our largest trading part.
22:18
It's insane.
22:19
And I get it.
22:20
There might be some reason for it.
22:21
I'm sure there is.
22:22
I haven't done.
22:22
Dairy farmers in Maine are getting screwed.
22:25
So, like where Susan Collins bucking up Trump.
22:29
Yeah.
22:29
It just is.
22:30
So I like, it didn't need to happen and it certainly didn't need to happen now.
22:34
Now.
22:35
Right.
22:35
And do the 50 tariff on Canada after November of the first.
22:40
That's right.
22:40
I mean, that's right.
22:41
Honestly, the timing is.
22:43
He doesn't care.
22:44
He doesn't care.
22:46
And you know what?
22:48
So he doesn't care.
22:49
Yeah, he's clearly not intimidated by the idea of losing.
22:53
He doesn't care.
22:54
He doesn't care.
22:56
And yet he is going to get, he's going to get impeached again.
22:58
He's going to get impeached.
22:59
We're gonna have two years of TV nonsense.
23:02
It's like I'm already bogged down on it.
23:04
I can already see the bog down.
23:06
I mean it's gonna, you know, the.
23:07
Quagmire of this crap, it just is gonna suck.
23:10
It's gonna cost us millions and it's gonna go nowhere.
23:12
And even if they can pull to.
23:14
Somebody and I didn't like the phone,.
23:16
Everything is going to be investigated and it didn't have to happen.
23:19
No, I just don't get it.
23:20
And I don't think Vance is doing particularly well.
23:22
I mean, I think, I think at this point I don't get becoming a socialist is not.
23:27
No.
23:27
What we want.
23:28
And well, you know, we interviewed him.
23:30
Yeah, we did.
23:31
And that's the one thing I pushed back.
23:32
It's like, look, how do you like.
23:34
He bet even two years ago when he was running for Senate, Right.
23:37
He sort of felt that the government can solve things.
23:40
And I get it.
23:41
That's his background and yeah, maybe a little bit.
23:43
But if you read Hillbilly Elegy, he talks in the book now.
23:47
You know, he's fresh out of Yale Law School.
23:50
Right.
23:50
He writes this book.
23:52
And as you say in our interview with him in his subsequent proposals, he's a little bit of a Bob Dole, big government guy.
24:04
You know, he's kind of, he's one of those Republicans that really believes, if you read his book, he really believes that these programs saved his grandparents who then in turn saved him.
24:17
Yeah.
24:17
That these meals on wheels and various safety net things really helped his impoverished family.
24:27
And I, I, I, I'm not disputing that.
24:30
But that doesn't mean then that for people say getting Medicare or Social Security or this child care, that you just start doing this for middle class people that you don't need that necessarily.
24:45
Yeah.
24:45
You know, so Steve, when you had your kids, when I had mine, our fan, you know, my wife at the time and I, we, we decided to take on these financial burdens, like we didn't have to have kids.
25:00
I mean, you know, there's, you know, I can get fit some of that.
25:03
You're Too stupid to realize how much it's going to cost.
25:05
Right.
25:05
You know, but I mean, you know, you can get fixed.
25:08
You can take precautions.
25:09
Precautions.
25:09
You know, you can, you know, you can have a surgery and, and then you won't produce children.
25:14
But, you know, if you voluntarily.
25:17
I mean, this is all part of being self, you know, supporting that.
25:23
Like you.
25:23
You calculate that I want a family.
25:26
It means a lot to me to have children.
25:29
So then I.
25:30
Yes, we're going to have less money in the household.
25:33
We're going to spend it on our kids instead of spending on our boats and.
25:38
And big color TVs and stuff.
25:40
So.
25:41
Yeah, I mean, look, and we're losing that now.
25:44
We're losing that.
25:44
And, And I don't think you're going to incentivize.
25:46
I appreciate what they're trying to do with this family money.
25:50
Supporting families where his heart is.
25:52
I appreciate it.
25:53
But is it really going to change anything?
25:55
It's like, is anybody really going to say, oh, I get 9,000 if I just crank out a couple and.
25:59
No, nobody's going to think about that.
26:01
It's just, it's.
26:02
It.
26:03
But the opposite.
26:05
I don't know, you know what it is.
26:09
It's the government trying to legislate personal morality through incentives.
26:15
And I don't think that works.
26:17
Yeah, I think it can disincentivize things, but I don't think you're gonna.
26:22
I don't think you're not gonna embed a Western morality with government money because it's contrary to Western morality.
26:33
Well, and as you and I have talked about, people like Dr.
26:37
Sowell or that wonderful book about the.
26:43
About Great Society written by Schlage, I think is.
26:46
Yeah, Amity, Amity, Amity Shapes.
26:51
There is a tremendous amount of economic research study.
26:58
I mean, there's a massive library of information that government programs largely are the cause of breaking up families.
27:07
Yeah, I mean, they have done the opposite of.
27:11
Of raising up poor people.
27:13
They have.
27:14
They've put them in chains.
27:16
They've made them dependent.
27:18
They haven't taught them how to fish.
27:21
We're just giving them fish, to use a biblical analogy.
27:24
And it doesn't work.
27:25
And it doesn't work.
27:26
It's never worked.
27:27
It's never going to work.
27:28
And so you got, you know, Section 8 housing spies that are looking for, oh, does this mama.
27:34
Does this baby mama have a man living with her?
27:37
Well, if she does, she no longer is qualified to get these benefits.
27:41
So then she is not going to get married to the father of her children.
27:46
And giving the other side gets cut off and giving married people money is not going to change that.
27:50
It's not going to change that.
27:51
It's never going to change that.
27:53
So, I mean, it just is one of these things.
27:57
Instead of saying, look, the government programs by and large cause this.
28:02
And this is true.
28:02
If you go read the studies, this is true.
28:04
It is true.
28:05
Even Patrick Moynihan, Senator Moynihan, Moynihan, who authored some of the Great Society because he was a staffer for lbj, even later in his career, he acknowledged that we've destroyed inner city families.
28:19
Yes.
28:19
With one sweep of the pen.
28:22
So, but the, the solution being proposed isn't let's get rid of that.
28:26
It is, let's just do something else.
28:28
Yeah.
28:28
And see if that balances it.
28:30
Yeah.
28:30
But it's, it's just more of the same.
28:32
And this is the Thomas Soul quote I love is that it's never that the program is bad.
28:35
We just didn't get to do enough of it.
28:37
So let us give us more money.
28:38
And you always get more of what you substitute.
28:40
You always get more of what you subsidize.
28:42
You know, so, I mean, because there's.
28:43
People looking to get those dollars, but.
28:45
At the risk of being, at the risk of being a hypocrite, I don't think we're going to get more families staying together by giving them $9,000 a year.
28:54
I, I don't think so.
28:55
I, I don't see that working.
28:57
I, I just don't.
28:58
Yeah.
28:59
And it's certainly not going to change the other side of it.
29:01
So.
29:01
Yeah, so what Vance has said in his, in his promo, you know, and it's not all the little terms aren't clear of, of how this would work.
29:10
I mean, it was, it was a thought experiment and him and Trump are pushing this concept.
29:17
So I don't know exactly, you know, how the dollars would flow.
29:21
They haven't been specific.
29:22
I know it's going to flow from my pocket.
29:24
Exactly.
29:25
Partly anyway.
29:26
But the idea he said was, well, why should married people have to chasing more money?
29:35
Right.
29:35
Have one of the spouses, you know, go out and be in the workforce and, and have to work just to buy crap.
29:45
What he said, quote, unquote, crappy child care.
29:50
And like you said, Steve, $9,000 is not like, like, so in lieu of me working and say making a hundred 'Thousand as the second spouse, since that seems to be the golden number now, even, even for people who
30:05
haven't gone to college, that working at data centers they're making 100 grand.
30:10
So instead of me making 100 grand, I'm going to decide, okay, I'm going to stay home and not buy crappy child care because the government's going to mail me nine grand.
30:22
Yeah.
30:23
Like you say, that's not all it's going to do is extract more money out of the taxpayers.
30:30
And we have a $43 trillion deficit.
30:33
As.
30:33
As Thomas.
30:34
Again, back to Thomas.
30:35
So these programs are never judged on the outcome, only the intent.
30:39
And this is going to be one of those.
30:41
While we were trying to keep him, but.
30:43
And then when it fails, we just need.
30:44
Now it's got to be 15.
30:46
Yeah.
30:46
Right.
30:47
Nine's not enough.
30:47
So we'll do 15.
30:48
Like the Trump birth accounts, you know, where.
30:52
Okay, well, the government's going to give you, you know, $2,000 a year or a thousand or whatever it is.
30:59
And then, you know, sure.
31:00
When Kamala becomes president, it'll be like, oh, well, Trump had a reasonable, you know, idea, but it's not nearly enough.
31:10
Yeah, let's do more.
31:11
Yeah.
31:12
So let's.
31:12
It's got to be 10 grand, or.
31:13
Let's take it, put in our own account, then we can decide it.
31:16
The bottom line is it doesn't work.
31:18
It won't work.
31:19
It'll never work.
31:20
And then, you know, economically, I'm no economist, and I don't.
31:24
I'd love to.
31:25
I'd love to hear the studies or the math on this, but it seems to me that if everybody has the same amount of money.
31:31
Yeah.
31:32
Then it's.
31:34
It's got no value.
31:35
Yeah.
31:36
Right, right.
31:37
It's got no value.
31:38
Yeah.
31:39
I mean, and that's why communism fails.
31:41
That's why it fails.
31:42
Right.
31:42
It's got no value.
31:43
It's like it's.
31:44
It.
31:44
Yeah.
31:45
Value.
31:45
All equally miserable.
31:47
Yeah.
31:47
You know, so then.
31:48
Okay, just draw a line under that.
31:50
Okay.
31:51
Everybody's got what everybody else has, and why should I work any harder?
31:56
Why should I try to better my situation?
31:58
Because it's just going to get extracted from me.
32:02
On the little communal farm that we're working on, if norm puts in 15 hours a day labor, the guy who only does six, he.
32:11
He's going to get the same money.
32:12
Right.
32:13
So somebody should.
32:13
I work hard in.
32:15
Human nature is going to motivate those of us who want to excel.
32:21
Yeah.
32:21
We're going to do our best to excel and overcome that.
32:23
And then the others are going to say, well, they have more.
32:25
So then we got to equal it, but.
32:26
And then we got to hide It.
32:28
You can't value anything without something that's different, right?
32:33
So there's no measurement.
32:34
Then it's all the same.
32:35
And this is what.
32:37
Not to get too existential about it, but this is, this is a path to, to faith for me.
32:43
Because why, how could we possibly have this evil in the world?
32:46
You know, why would we.
32:47
Because without it, you wouldn't know what's good.
32:49
Like everything's the same.
32:50
Otherwise, like, you need.
32:52
There needs to be a choice.
32:53
There needs to be a yin and a yang.
32:56
There has to be an opposite.
32:58
In order to measure what is good, to measure what value is, you have to have something else to measure it against.
33:03
And if it's all the same, you don't have it.
33:05
The story of the prodigal son.
33:08
Why did the prodigal son come back to dad?
33:11
After, after his whole life, blood blew up, right?
33:14
He.
33:14
He and the other brother got the same measure of support from the dad.
33:18
The one brother stayed home and kept kicking ass, kept working, you know, kept, Kept at it.
33:24
The other, the other guy went out, he was a spendthrift and he.
33:27
And he frittered it away, frittered it all the way.
33:30
Ended up hiding in the hog pen or something.
33:32
Came back to a successful situation because it would elevate him.
33:37
And he knew that he, he understood that, that there would be loving arms there back at home.
33:42
And he got a party and the other son was a little bit upset by it.
33:46
Had to be explained.
33:47
Had to be explained.
33:48
And you know, Jocko, I.
33:50
Every now and then I listen to some of this other stuff, but he has a dinner with a dear friend of mine recently, and he was.
33:56
He told me about love.
33:57
His name?
33:57
If it's Jocko.
33:58
Yeah, please.
33:58
No, that's not his name.
33:59
Oh.
33:59
But people know who that is.
34:01
But adversity is very biblical concept.
34:05
Okay.
34:05
Adversity happens.
34:06
You just lost your job.
34:08
He would say, good, because now you get to go find a better one.
34:13
Or now you get to figure out what you did to lose the job and then learn from that and, and improve.
34:17
And you have to have these adversities in order to grow.
34:21
Yes.
34:22
You know, you, you don't.
34:23
When you go work out in the gym, you get very sore.
34:26
That's tearing your muscle tissue, but as it repairs, it gets stronger and.
34:30
Great analogy.
34:31
And this is what, this is what makes us grow.
34:33
And you can't eliminate that and expect growth.
34:35
You can't do it.
34:35
Yeah, we got, we got a little bit philosophical there.
34:39
Well, I think it's important.
34:40
I you know, 9 11, the anniversary of that is on Friday.
34:46
25 years.
34:47
It's, it's incomprehensible to me that 25 years has passed.
34:51
I remember that day like yesterday.
34:55
You know, of course we in Ohio saw it all on television.
35:00
I'm going to New York City to go to the, to go to the, the grounds of the, of where that took place the attack and go to the museum, see the memorials.
35:12
You're going 4911?
35:14
Yeah, well, I'm not going to go Friday, but I'm, I'm going this fall.
35:18
And to me it's just like when I went to prison, Pearl harbor and I saw that, I went to the Pearl harbor memorial area and toured that.
35:30
And it just occurs to me that, okay, on the day itself, we lost around 3000 people.
35:38
We've since lost like around another 3000 people from 911 illnesses.
35:44
And then we've lost around 7000 military lives on the war on terror.
35:50
And it just seems to me like the lessons of Pearl harbor are not being taught.
35:56
Our young people don't even understand that this was religiously based attack on, on America and well, that there's a worldwide caliphate that was trying to be established and we're still confronting that with Iran.
36:18
And it's like that the danger, Steve, you know, like 911 was.
36:27
Now that we know the commission reports been out for a long time, we know it was preventable.
36:33
We had people taking airplane lessons who didn't want to know how to land.
36:38
They just want to know how to take, how to, how to control it once they're in flight.
36:42
But they weren't interested in taking off or landing.
36:45
They, you know, like.
36:47
And they overstayed their visas and they were from terrorist countries.
36:51
And there's people now, there are people now being taught that we deserved it.
36:55
That.
36:55
Yes.
36:56
That it was just desserts for all the horribleness.
36:59
Yeah.
36:59
Hasan Piker.
37:00
It's like, you know what?
37:01
F you.
37:01
Yeah.
37:02
F you and everybody that goes with you.
37:04
F you.
37:05
And you kids at college, you know, on your iPhones tweeting about this crap.
37:10
I mean, do you think these bastards would give you an iPhone?
37:12
Or do you think if you're gay that they would give you any quarter whatsoever?
37:15
They would cut your effing head off and drag you through the streets, hang.
37:18
You by a crane.
37:19
Yeah.
37:20
And that's what they do.
37:21
And we don't deserve this.
37:22
Nobody deserved it.
37:23
I don't care what's happened.
37:25
And there's no but at the end.
37:27
There is no but.
37:28
There Is.
37:29
No, but you don't get to say, oh, you know, that was really terrible what happened to the families and to the victims themselves.
37:37
But, but hurt people do hurt things.
37:39
F you.
37:40
Yeah, no, nothing like that's justified.
37:43
And, and, and the repercussions and the, you know, the waves going out from the splash that occurred where we have people in this country that are looking at the grounds that I'm going to go tour as some kind
37:57
of trophy.
37:58
Yep.
37:58
Like, Like.
37:59
Well, I think the mayor is.
38:00
Yeah, he is.
38:02
Despite his outward bs.
38:04
Yeah.
38:05
You know, and it's fu.
38:08
I really feel that way about it.
38:09
And, and, you know, have you watched.
38:11
A piker's podcast ever?
38:13
Yeah.
38:13
Oh, yeah, I've seen clips of it.
38:14
Yeah.
38:15
He used to have this picture of the burning Twin Towers behind him.
38:19
As far as, I mean, clearly not sympathetic to the.
38:22
Far as I'm concerned, it's treason.
38:23
Yeah.
38:23
You know, it's like, you know, freedom of speech, I get it, but giving that guy an ounce of air is, is, it's so shocking to me.
38:32
Yeah.
38:33
I, I, I, you know, and yet.
38:35
You're a free speecher.
38:37
You're not a guy.
38:38
I wouldn't prosecute him for it.
38:39
If you were a German.
38:41
You wouldn't, you wouldn't ban his regime in reverse.
38:45
Would kill you.
38:46
It would what he is advocating for in reverse.
38:49
They would kill you on this show.
38:50
Steve, you've always said, I just want to get you on the record on this because maybe you, maybe you feel different today, and that's okay.
38:58
I think it's good that we talk about these things.
39:01
But you've often said when it comes to horrible speech, that the light of day exposure.
39:08
Of course.
39:09
Yeah.
39:10
You know, then the mold doesn't grow in the corner when the light is brightly shining on it.
39:15
Yes.
39:15
So you would not.
39:16
Even if it's treasonous, even if it's.
39:18
Poisonous, Even if, well, if it's a crime, it's different.
39:20
But yes, if it would be, you wouldn't prosecute him.
39:23
I, or did you just say you would?
39:25
No, I would not prosecute him for that now.
39:27
Not, not piker.
39:29
I, I use that word.
39:30
I use that word sort of loosely.
39:32
So is it, is it legal treason?
39:34
No, no.
39:35
That's right.
39:36
No.
39:36
And I wouldn't prosecute if it were.
39:38
I would.
39:39
You know, if he's sharing secrets, if he's doing things and he, it may come out that he is, that's not protected speech.
39:45
But in, but my point is that, yeah, nuclear secrets to Russia, that's Right.
39:50
So somehow we've gotten to a point in our society in 20 years, give or take.
39:56
Or 25 years, give or take.
39:58
That that's okay.
39:59
It's okay to celebrate the fact that these bastards took down the World Trade Centers.
40:03
And, you know, there's this.
40:06
We have shifted morality in a way that there's this moral relativism, like all morality is relative to it.
40:14
So it's B.S.
40:16
Yeah.
40:16
We're right.
40:17
Right.
40:18
And people say, well, how do you know?
40:19
Because I know, like John Cleese famously, you know, the.
40:24
Not only a business consultant, but, you know, he was also a comedian with Monty Python.
40:30
Like John Cleese has said, some cultures are better than other cultures.
40:36
Yes.
40:36
And our.
40:37
Our Western culture happens to be a better culture.
40:40
Yep.
40:41
And.
40:41
And I don't know why that upsets people to, to say it doesn't mean you, the person, Bill Smith, or, Or John Jones.
40:50
It doesn't mean you're a better person because you're an American or because you go to jail.
40:55
You're an equally flawed individual.
40:57
Right.
40:58
Yeah.
40:58
I'm not saying I, nor Murdoch am better than somebody who lives in Iran, but clearly the culture in America today in 2026 is better than the culture in Tehran in 2020.
41:13
In the irony that's indisputable.
41:15
The irony is that, you know, Marx said this.
41:17
Marx said the capitalistic society contains the seeds of its own destruction.
41:21
Now, Marx was saying that eventually the workers are going to revolt and overthrow it, and it's going to have.
41:25
But he was right for a different reason.
41:27
Yeah.
41:28
Because our society, maybe not capitalism, but our free society, has permitted these other people to come in and voice their viewpoints.
41:36
And, and where we have gone wrong.
41:38
We have gone wrong is that we're not doing what I advocate for.
41:42
We're not giving the alternate viewpoints.
41:44
We've let that take over the universities where kids are taught.
41:47
Right.
41:47
And there isn't a contrary message.
41:49
And I think we're trying now, culturally, there's a turning point.
41:53
Turning point.
41:53
Yes.
41:54
What he was trying to do.
41:55
Yeah.
41:56
And look at how much flak he got as a result of that.
41:59
He got killed.
42:00
Yeah.
42:00
And it's.
42:01
Yeah.
42:02
So the, the, the problem is.
42:04
And people celebrate that.
42:06
And people celebrate that because that anniversary, I think, is.
42:09
Is that today?
42:11
I don't know.
42:11
I think it might be.
42:13
I think the anniversary of Charlie Kirk's assassination is this week, curiously enough.
42:18
Like.
42:18
Right.
42:19
Same week as 9 11.
42:20
But it, it's either today or September 10th.
42:23
Tomorrow.
42:24
It's tomorrow.
42:24
Yeah.
42:25
So people are celebrating his killing.
42:27
We don't have like in, you know, the Hassan pikers of the world.
42:30
World.
42:30
They get their viewpoint.
42:31
But the universities are teaching that by and large without any, without any pushback on the other side.
42:38
And I think the problem that I have is the government in large part has funded that.
42:42
Yeah.
42:43
At least to the extent there's public universities.
42:44
Georgetown, you know, Jesuit University.
42:49
Right.
42:49
Catholic universe.
42:50
Georgetown in D.C.
42:53
on campus.
42:54
They're holding tomorrow of all days.
42:57
Right.
42:57
Not coincident after one year, the anniversary of his killing.
43:03
They're having a Charlie Cook Kirk look alike event where, where people are going to dress up and you know, they're going to come.
43:11
Yeah.
43:12
Bloody necks.
43:12
Yeah.
43:12
All the same.
43:13
Yeah.
43:13
And like, okay, if we did that on MLK Day, what I would be horrified.
43:20
Or JFK's assassination and it's celebrated.
43:23
That's what's wrong with people.
43:24
It, it is, it is just gone off the rails.
43:28
It's off the rails.
43:29
It's off the rails.
43:30
And you have these campus policies about safe spaces.
43:34
Well, what about the people that love Charlie Kirk?
43:37
What about the people who will be horrified seeing some ghoulish zombie, you know, bloody guy imitate.
43:45
Yeah.
43:45
You know, like if you have a campus speech code, why doesn't it work for the other direction?
43:51
It never does.
43:52
It never does.
43:53
And it just is.
43:55
This is the problem.
43:55
There's been no pushback ever.
43:57
Now I think the market, to the extent that capitalism is here, I think the market is starting to fix this a little bit.
44:03
I think that.
44:04
I don't know for sure.
44:05
Yeah, like turning point.
44:06
But that is a counter, it's a.
44:07
Counter movement and it's not coming from the government.
44:10
That's right.
44:11
And I think also the invisible hand is somewhat guiding this.
44:14
I think fewer people are going to college, more people are least going to community colleges where this nonsense isn't really prevalent.
44:19
You're just getting your degree and moving on.
44:21
We're getting it for two years and then going like colleges, they gotten over their skis a little bit and we can, we can talk about why.
44:27
Right.
44:27
So they had student loans subsidized.
44:30
So colleges, what guess what they're going to do?
44:32
Charge you full price because they know the government's backing the payment and now there's a backlash about that and eventually that's got to correct.
44:39
So if I saw a president, anybody that said we're just going to, just going to eliminate federally subsidized student loans.
44:44
That won't do.
44:45
That's like putting the keel back on the ship.
44:47
It may not fix it right away, but it'll fix it pretty damn quick.
44:50
Right, right.
44:51
And also this continual thing about forgiving those loans is utter crap to me.
44:57
It's utter crap because you didn't buy.
45:00
You didn't buy the, the plumber, the plumbers and the carpenters and the roofers, their Dodge Ram and a set of tools and you know, a gutter, you know, a break, a metal break so they could make gutters on.
45:15
On the spot.
45:16
Those guys all went out there and had to finance that out of their own.
45:20
Right.
45:20
You want to become an electrician's apprentice, you can't just go say, I'm an electrician.
45:23
You've got to go work.
45:24
You've got to buy stuff you've got to do.
45:26
Right.
45:26
You can't do that.
45:27
Ridiculous.
45:28
It's.
45:28
It's nonsense.
45:29
And so those people bought degrees, whether formal college degrees or otherwise, that earn them money, that there's.
45:39
There's a return.
45:40
Yeah, right.
45:41
So I bought a law degree.
45:42
I make money with it.
45:43
Yeah.
45:44
And.
45:44
And I will say.
45:45
And you expected to pay your loan?
45:47
I expected to.
45:48
I expected to and did.
45:50
And there's.
45:53
I stumbled in to a history degree without realizing how.
46:00
What's the right word?
46:01
Unremunerative.
46:03
Unremunerative.
46:04
It would be.
46:04
Yeah, but I learned.
46:06
And.
46:07
But there's another difference.
46:07
It was before subsidized loans so I could get that degree at a price.
46:12
That was, Steve, with my English, that.
46:14
Was very, very salvageable because I wasn't 100,000 in debt to get it.
46:19
Almost no debt because I worked and I was able to pay as I went at a private school.
46:24
So as soon as we started subsidizing loans and the mid late 90s, prices skyrocketed.
46:30
Yeah, they did.
46:30
And.
46:31
And now your history degree or your art degree or your English degree.
46:34
So wolves law, you always get more.
46:35
You get more what you pay for or.
46:37
And you know, the irony of it is I learned history after I graduated from law school, right.
46:46
Because I taught myself history that I didn't learn in college.
46:48
One, because I wasn't a great student, and two, because already then the agenda was starting to go off a little bit.
46:55
That's right.
46:55
America was bad.
46:56
Yeah, there was a little bit of that going on.
46:58
You know, all this, it was just starting.
47:01
And so I didn't write now the old school Russian history, and I learned some nuts and bolts history, but really got into it later.
47:08
Which tells you you can learn that stuff on your own.
47:10
You don't need to go spend a hundred thousand dollars on a degree for these soft sciences.
47:15
And it's not going to prepare you for a job in the real world that's going to pay you six figures.
47:21
Right.
47:21
You might as well go just go work at Walmart.
47:23
I think the Department of Labor came out.
47:26
Gosh, who did I see?
47:29
Whoever our, I'm terrible on this, whoever our current Secretary of Labor is, I think I saw come out with a.
47:37
And this has been all over the media that the real growth in jobs and the, the average pay for the current crop of young people with white collar college degrees versus blue collar trades.
47:55
The trades now are making more money and they're in more demand.
47:59
And the unemployment for people with college degrees at a certain age level, not your age level, not mine, but people getting into the workforce, say under 30.
48:11
It's, it's now disproportionately in favor of, of get a trade, actually know how to do something that's in demand.
48:20
Yep.
48:20
Because in part of this I think is AI driven, that the jobs that are going to get replaced.
48:27
The analysis types of jobs.
48:30
I was listening to John Wayne Mullen, I have his name right.
48:36
The, the Secretary of Homeland Security.
48:39
He was talking about how even at the airports the TSA screening now is enhanced by AI.
48:46
Because when they're looking at this scan of what's in your suitcase, I can pick up like, like it can put dots together of, of what the shadows are showing way better than what a human being can do.
49:02
And it can go, oh, that's a lithium battery.
49:04
Yep, I can see it.
49:06
But, but you know, Bill, start thinking.
49:08
Radiology and all the other stuff.
49:10
And so look, it's coming.
49:12
Lawyers AI's chewing up.
49:17
I have the ability now.
49:18
I do a ton of appellate work, federal habeas corpus work.
49:21
I do sort of this, the high end niche type of appeals in criminal cases.
49:27
I have a Lexus subscription that has this thing called Protege and it has streamlined my research beyond any of my imaginations.
49:39
So who needs a legal assistant in something?
49:41
I need.
49:41
I.
49:42
Or you need less of them?
49:43
I need.
49:44
So there was a time that if I had, if I had a question about a case I need answered, I would have a lawsuit or my law clerk, hey, can you research for me?
49:52
You're paying them.
49:52
And I would pay them do that.
49:54
I can find that answer out.
49:55
Yeah.
49:56
And not only that, with my experience.
49:59
Yeah.
49:59
Like I can not only find that answer out, but it'll take me to places that I could have gotten to before, but time was too Much of a limit.
50:07
Right.
50:07
And it has raised the quality of my work.
50:11
Significant.
50:12
Now, I don't let AI draft any documents yet.
50:15
I'm too old school for that.
50:17
Sure.
50:17
You know, I think there is an art to writing, even legal writing.
50:20
But Steve, think of the areas of law that are even more conducive to AI.
50:25
Contract.
50:26
Right.
50:26
You draft a contract.
50:27
Patents and copyrights, due diligence on, you know, corporate reports.
50:35
Yep.
50:37
Gosh, I'm trying.
50:39
I mean.
50:39
Oh, title work.
50:42
Title work.
50:42
Yeah.
50:43
God, you.
50:44
Look, I used people, I used to do title work for my dad's law firm and it literally involved going down to places like the auditors and the recorder's office.
50:56
And I'm physically going through index cards.
51:00
Right.
51:01
Doing title searches because one number, like a recorder's number would refer to an auditor's number in another index file.
51:09
And you had to physically go over there and make sure that, that lean got canc.
51:14
Then you're pulling microfish doing all this stuff, right.
51:16
It's all, I'm sure you, you push up button this piece of real estate.
51:21
And look, there's going to be jobs.
51:23
It's not, I'm not one of these people that thinks it's going to ruin our economy or eliminate all the jobs.
51:27
But you know what is, I'm sitting here listening to you talk.
51:29
Where it's going to have the most impact and where it's the most dangerous is government jobs.
51:33
Because the government employees aren't going to want to give up their jobs and the government's not going to want that to happen.
51:39
So shifting, getting those people to think creatively and shift like we have to in the private sector, we've, we've trained generations of people not to do that.
51:47
Yeah.
51:48
So look, I've got this new, I've got AI.
51:50
I can't make money here.
51:51
So you know what?
51:52
I'm gonna start doing it.
51:53
Go over here a little bit.
51:53
I'm gonna start doing it.
51:54
But a government's, I think you watch, the government's gonna be the last sign on to full AI assistance.
52:01
I think you're, I think you're right.
52:03
If, if, if, if Trump loses the midterms, which seems, you know, very much in play, and then two years from now there is the, the pendulum swings anti maga and we get, you know, a, a different kind of
52:21
philosophy in the White House.
52:23
I heard that government employee staffing for the federal government is currently at a 60 year low.
52:32
We, you have to go back to the 1960s like Trump has been able to either retire or incentivize or outright fire over 300,000 federal.
52:46
I think what we could do, and I don't want anybody to lose their job, guys.
52:50
So I say this with a heavy heart.
52:52
Yeah, but think what we could do with AI and, you know, the, the.
52:56
Problem is jobs will probably come back.
52:58
Yeah, of course.
52:59
Right.
52:59
You know, they're gonna, they'll find some bureau staff, all these, they'll restaff it or create a new department or find some bureau of whatever and do whatever.
53:07
Which is what frustrates me so much about the Trump era.
53:10
In his hands, he had the ability to make some permanent changes, but he's just too scattered.
53:15
Right.
53:16
It just didn't happen.
53:17
And now, now it's going to be two years said we're going to lose.
53:19
He won't be able to do it.
53:20
Well, you look at things like, I won't lay it all on Trump because you look at Doge, you look at the Save America act, act and Congress and, you know, the House and the Senate, which are in Republican
53:33
hands.
53:34
Right.
53:34
Well, they, they want to get elected, too.
53:36
They're, they're, they're, they're not doing what Trump wanted to do.
53:39
They're not.
53:40
And not everything.
53:41
Well, we just talked about some of Trump's socialism, so it's not like, you know, I'm waving a MAGA flag here.
53:48
No, no, no.
53:49
Like, everything he does is great.
53:51
But Doge was great.
53:52
Doge was great.
53:53
And people.
53:54
So, and they did, you know, it was too painful.
53:56
You know, like, you know, Elon's like, well, we're going to have to means test or we're going to have to do this or we're going to have.
54:02
To, you know, guess what, you have to be competent.
54:03
We're going to have to slowly raise the, the retirement age to get Social Security.
54:10
Slowly, as our life expectancy extends.
54:15
We, we just can't keep it where it was forever.
54:20
No, you can't.
54:20
Right.
54:21
And, you know, it just, it, there's going to be pain if it's ever going to change.
54:26
Right.
54:26
43 trillion.
54:29
Well, you know what, your sons and my sons, I mean, and, and any grandchildren that we're blessed with telling them that it's going to be a bloodbath.
54:38
Invest.
54:39
So, you know, whatever you're making, boys, if you're making 500amonth, then it's 10%.
54:46
Yeah.
54:46
And live on, you know, whatever it is.
54:48
And then when you're making 5,000, it's still 10%, maybe 15%.
54:51
Don't have debt don't buy stupid cars, you know, and just invest that money.
54:56
Because then when you're my age, you don't need Social Security.
54:58
Yeah, you don't need it because likely it ain't good.
55:02
I mean, you know, you don't, you only can keep doing this so long before the numbers.
55:07
It's five less lattes a month, right.
55:09
Or whatever, you know, you know, do the math.
55:11
Or five less beers or whatever it is.
55:13
And you can do it and people do do it.
55:15
So, so I'm preaching to the youth out there.
55:18
Well, real quickly, Steve, my understanding is, and I know you, you love this particular topic because it, it, it brings in these competing forces of free speech, but yet moral sickness in our society.
55:37
My understanding is in federal court here in Ohio is the first case under what was called the Take It down act, which banned or made illegal AI generated obscenity used to harass people.
55:55
In other words, if you want to do AI and you know, put, I don't know, some old girlfriend's head on a cartoon character of some, you know, buxom, you know, cartoon person and you want to sit there and
56:11
watch your own self made porn, I guess that's one thing.
56:15
Okay, as, as weird and as, you know, as, as sick as it is, in my opinion.
56:23
But this particular federal act, the Take It Down Act, I think Melania was behind it actually.
56:32
And it pushes this idea of AI generated stuff where you create a false image or video and then that's used to harass or even to bribe.
56:48
Yeah.
56:49
So the takedown, it's a federal United States law that criminalizes non consensual sharing of intimate images and digital forgeries, including AI generated deep fakes, criminalizes ncii.
56:59
The first case apparently is in federal court here in Columbus.
57:03
I haven't followed it.
57:04
Non consensual intimate imagery.
57:05
So just heard about.
57:06
I haven't followed it either in.
57:08
I think that statute will be upheld for all sorts of reasons.
57:15
And here's why.
57:17
Because it has to be.
57:20
And, and you know, I love the law because like you say, the, the study of the common law is sort of fascinating to me because you have this.
57:28
The law follows the society or society follow.
57:31
Like, like how's it move?
57:32
How does it evolve?
57:33
It's like this nebulous.
57:34
Remember the movie the Blob or whatever?
57:36
Like, it's just like this nebulous Steve McQueen or what?
57:38
Yeah.
57:39
So it's like it has to.
57:42
Because it, we can't have you or somebody making deep fakes of me and making money on it in our society, even if you're going if free speech.
57:52
So where do I feel?
57:53
How do I feel free spe.
57:54
It's not going to matter matter.
57:55
They're going to find a way to that.
57:56
That law will be upheld.
57:58
Now what's interesting is this is also coming up in the horrible area of csam.
58:02
Child sex abuse material child porn.
58:04
Okay.
58:05
And there was a case recently where a federal court has basically struck down the application of a law where somebody was either, I think, possessing in their home fake child porn.
58:19
AI generated child pornography.
58:21
Okay.
58:22
And it that came up in a First Amendment type setting.
58:25
Is that protected conduct in the confines of your home?
58:27
If you go way back to like Bowers v.
58:28
Hardwick and you know, that line of cases.
58:31
So this like we're right on the cusp of all this stuff.
58:33
Yeah.
58:35
So it'll be interesting to see how it goes on.
58:37
And what I'll do is I'll try to get up to speed on it and we can.
58:39
We can really break it down.
58:40
Yeah.
58:40
Because child porn, if you will, all three AI child porn would necessarily involve an actual child being abused on film with AI like the argument against child porn, that aspect of it is no longer there.
59:00
Because it's a cartoon child.
59:03
That's right.
59:03
You didn't film it.
59:05
No child was actually.
59:07
So can Congress pass a law that says AI generated child pornography is a crime?
59:14
And you know, this is you constitutional law students out there.
59:18
Does it violate somebody's First Amendment to view and possess this crap in their home?
59:24
Because of what you're talking about, it doesn't have that governmental interest in protecting the kids.
59:30
Now the government's going to turn around and say yes, it does.
59:33
Because all we're doing is fueling a motivation for more of it.
59:36
And therefore we have the same governmental interest in regular regulating it as we would actual child pornography.
59:44
But a lot of those old cases turned on the kids ages and different things.
59:47
Like you had fake cheerleaders and.
59:49
Or older women in cheerleader outfits, like dressing like there's a whole body along this.
59:53
That gets really finicky.
59:55
Yeah.
59:56
I had an interesting conversation in another podcast.
59:58
I can't remember where it was, but it dawned on me.
1:00:01
We have.
1:00:02
So those with heroin addiction.
1:00:03
So the opioid addiction was a horrific epidemic.
1:00:05
Still is.
1:00:06
Yeah.
1:00:06
And we invented something called methadone.
1:00:09
And methadone is basically heroin that doesn't get you high.
1:00:12
It's designed to sort of keep you off the dope.
1:00:16
Okay.
1:00:17
Yeah.
1:00:17
And.
1:00:18
And you get that at a treatment center.
1:00:20
Yeah.
1:00:20
It takes a script, you get a treatment center, but it's very easy to come by.
1:00:23
And you know, it keeps you, you know, you're not, you're not high all the time.
1:00:26
So it's, you know, it's methadone, there's other versions of it, but that's essentially what it is.
1:00:32
But I, I said, well, isn't AI child porn that.
1:00:35
So if you've got somebody who's got a predilection for looking at kids and being with kids, well, just let them go into this little lab and look, get their fix in a lab where they're AI generated stuff and
1:00:44
there's no actual human and there's no human involved.
1:00:46
And then they get their fix and you can maybe wean them off and use it as a treatment.
1:00:50
Maybe.
1:00:50
Interesting.
1:00:51
May.
1:00:52
And one of the problems.
1:00:52
Look, I'm not an advocate of child pornography by any measure, but one of the problems with it is I do believe that people are wired in certain situations to like it.
1:01:02
Thank God I'm not.
1:01:03
Yeah, well, sure.
1:01:04
Right.
1:01:04
Yeah.
1:01:05
You know, there are people that just a lot of.
1:01:07
Addiction.
1:01:08
Addiction.
1:01:09
Addiction.
1:01:10
Knowledge.
1:01:10
Addictionology.
1:01:11
Yeah, yeah, that is, is kind of.
1:01:13
People are wondering if there isn't a physical.
1:01:17
Is something in the brain, you know,.
1:01:19
You're wired to like it somehow, some way.
1:01:21
Yeah, I don't know.
1:01:22
But those who know they have that predilection yet haven't been caught, they can't do anything about it.
1:01:29
So they've got to stop on their own somehow, get that under control on their own.
1:01:34
They don't get to go to a 12 step program and say I'm an alcoholic.
1:01:38
Because as soon as they do that, they get prosecuted.
1:01:40
Right.
1:01:40
So there's mandatory disclosure laws.
1:01:42
There's other things.
1:01:42
So there's no.
1:01:43
Really, that's the.
1:01:44
And look, I'm not saying I have the answers, nor am I saying that I'm favoring not.
1:01:47
You're not even sure it would work.
1:01:49
I'm not even sure.
1:01:49
You're just putting it out there like there's a.
1:01:52
But there's a fundamental problem with the purveyors of child pornography and that they get help once they're caught and after they're caught it's too late and they can't do anything about it.
1:02:03
And you could say, great, throw away the key and lock them up.
1:02:05
I'm with you.
1:02:06
Right.
1:02:06
I'm with you because I, I hate this stuff.
1:02:08
The only solution.
1:02:09
But you're.
1:02:10
What you're.
1:02:11
Maybe.
1:02:11
Maybe is maybe there's a way to Use this.
1:02:14
Study it medically.
1:02:15
Somebody should study it.
1:02:16
Interesting.
1:02:17
Well, good guys, bad guys.
1:02:19
Yeah, go ahead.
1:02:20
Y.
1:02:20
Well, you kind of touched on it, but I think the nasty and unpleasant turd of the week, so to speak for me is Zoran Mandan.
1:02:28
Yeah, we got the same.
1:02:29
Yeah, I mean, this executive order session that he did a couple of days ago where he, he did a pronouncement, you know, decrying the loss of the families who, who had loved ones in, in 9 11.
1:02:44
So he, he stages this event for the.
1:02:47
The cameras where he signs this order and then he hands it to the pretty redneck lady who runs a pen police commissioner.
1:02:56
He gives it to her for her to transfer it to his office, the special counsel, the guy who is the.
1:03:04
Lawyer for the mayor and the guy, Ramsey Kassam.
1:03:08
And this guy was a defense attorney for a 911 terrorist.
1:03:13
And people are saying, yeah, why would you pass that through the police commissioner's hands to then give it to this guy?
1:03:22
It wouldn't that be like we're doing a Holocaust memorial?
1:03:26
And I pass the pen to the, to the, to the, one of the prosecuting attorneys at the Nuremberg trials to hand to the defense attorney for Herman Guring.
1:03:40
Yeah.
1:03:40
And look, I gotta be kidding again.
1:03:42
I've got two hats here.
1:03:43
I had the same bad guy of the week, and I've got two hats.
1:03:47
If somebody called me to represent the 911 people, I don't know that I would say no.
1:03:51
I don't know that I would say yes.
1:03:52
But my job is a criminal defense lawyer to go make sure the law.
1:03:56
Absolutely, I, I agree.
1:03:57
That's part of our legal process.
1:04:00
But I don't do it for causes.
1:04:01
I do it for the cause of the system, but not the cause of the person, of course.
1:04:05
So I, I don't take on causes.
1:04:06
I take on prosecutions and people.
1:04:09
But as you pointed out, that's not what makes it so evil.
1:04:13
What makes it evil is the symbolic gesture of it.
1:04:15
You might as well spit in the eye of every 911 victim and say, nana, nana.
1:04:22
And there's a hundred thousand people now who have signed a petition asking Mayor Momi to stay away from this memorial on Friday.
1:04:31
Yeah, Mandami can shove that pin up his ass.
1:04:33
Yeah.
1:04:33
And they're saying, hey, listen, I lost my dad.
1:04:36
I just want to go express my sorrow and sadness.
1:04:40
Why not give that, Think of the opportunity.
1:04:42
Give that pen to a hero from 911 or their family or something, or just hold on to it.
1:04:49
Yeah, if, if you can't stomach that because you think that we deserved it.
1:04:52
At least put it in your damn pocket and don't symbolically give it to the guy who's defending the terrorists.
1:04:57
Exactly.
1:04:58
I mean that was certainly calculated.
1:05:00
Oh of course it was.
1:05:01
You can almost see the little smarmy smile on his face.
1:05:03
There were like 10 people.
1:05:04
Even the guy who got.
1:05:05
It's like you can just see in his face he wouldn't expect.
1:05:08
And that.
1:05:08
And that police commissioner lady, her last name is Trish, she rolled her eyes, you know that he made her do that.
1:05:17
And she was the first person who left that press conference.
1:05:20
She, she stormed out of there.
1:05:22
Good for her.
1:05:22
She should quit.
1:05:23
Apparently she is thinking about running for mayor when Mamdani's term is up.
1:05:28
This is when he, he's certainly going to run for re election or Senate or something.
1:05:33
But she's apparently a marital candidate.
1:05:36
Good for her.
1:05:38
My, my, my badass honest hero of the week goes to Lawrence Jones III of Fox tv.
1:05:47
He.
1:05:49
So he is a friend of Trump.
1:05:50
He is a, he's one of, you know, he's a fanboy.
1:05:54
But he has come out against GOP socialism and, and what triggered him was this child care thing.
1:06:03
And he is saying essentially why should people like, like you.
1:06:09
What we should be talking about is taking away the, these tax credits and subsidies and people, families need to recalculate why they're having kids and deciding to have kids and being self supportive.
1:06:25
Why are people in any case elderly people, people who never had children, people who can't have children.
1:06:33
Why are people without children having to support?
1:06:39
It's the problem with taking people's money and giving it to other people.
1:06:42
It's like why are you making me give them money?
1:06:44
Exactly.
1:06:44
How's that fair within your.
1:06:46
Same as student loan forgiveness.
1:06:47
If you want to have nine kids, live within your means.
1:06:50
Right?
1:06:51
You're not an animal.
1:06:52
You don't have to have nine.
1:06:54
And by the way, I just saw this, you know, I listened to this, this guy talking about that like all the kids these days are talking about how they can't afford a house.
1:07:01
They can't do whatever.
1:07:02
Like the house back in our era the average house was like 1500 square feet or something like that.
1:07:08
So they can't have the mansions.
1:07:09
But people, people can pack a smaller decent sized house with kids.
1:07:13
You can do it.
1:07:14
You can do without the government money.
1:07:15
You can.
1:07:16
And also, and also people want to move to the, you know, they want to move to the Pittsburgh's and the San Diegos and the Columbus Ohio's Right.
1:07:25
But there are other towns.
1:07:26
There are Dayton's, Youngstowns, there's, you know, Hamtramck up in Michigan.
1:07:33
There's, you know, there are lots of places you can go to and buy a $50,000 house.
1:07:38
Yes, they do exist.
1:07:39
It's just that you're going to have to move to areas where people aren't pining to go move to.
1:07:46
Yeah.
1:07:47
So you can't, don't tell me that you don't have choice.
1:07:51
You do have choices.
1:07:52
You have choices.
1:07:53
You want deluxe, you want the big shopping malls, you want, want the mace.
1:07:57
And at the same time you're jumping up and down on the graves of the people that gave you all these luxuries.
1:08:03
Right.
1:08:03
Of the system that gave you all these luxuries.
1:08:05
So, you know, if you think that, just go, go check out like I've told the story before I was in Estonia of what the housing looks like in those kind of countries.
1:08:12
Yeah, it's concrete blocks.
1:08:15
Concrete walls stacked and glued together.
1:08:17
And before we get a flood of letters saying, well, that's okay for you to say, Mr.
1:08:21
Murdoch, because you know, you can buy a home.
1:08:24
My first home I got for a dollar.
1:08:27
A dollar.
1:08:28
And what it was in Cincinnati, Ohio was called urban pioneering.
1:08:33
I got a fallen down, disrepaired, tagged as you can inhabitable right home for a dollar that had been taken by the city of Cincinnati because people didn't pay their bill right.
1:08:49
And there were 12 of these homes and they did this every six months.
1:08:53
They took 12 homes that were, that needed 50, $60,000, whatever, to put back into habitable status.
1:09:03
And I got one for a dollar.
1:09:05
And the deal was I had to live in that house for three years before I got title and I had to get a loan and I had to hire.
1:09:14
They had an approved list of contractors that they knew would, would do code approved work so that I didn't have to go out and figure out who's going to do a good job.
1:09:26
They had a list of people in the city guaranteed that those people would fix it to code.
1:09:31
But I paid them.
1:09:33
I had to get a loan and I had to pay it back.
1:09:36
And if I paid back the loan and if I live there for three years, I got the property.
1:09:41
Well, that's interesting.
1:09:42
I'd love to chop that up one of these days, but yeah, my, my first house, guess what?
1:09:45
I worked on it, I remodeled it, and then I could get another one.
1:09:49
And you didn't pay a fortune?
1:09:50
No and no.
1:09:51
It was a cheap house and I did another one Then I did another one.
1:09:53
Then I did another one.
1:09:54
Now I finally built a house.
1:09:55
Right.
1:09:55
So it's over 35 years.
1:09:57
This is called sweat equity.
1:09:58
Yeah, right.
1:09:59
Yeah.
1:10:00
I've got lots of injuries, even a short finger.
1:10:02
Yep.
1:10:02
To prove it.
1:10:03
So look my good.
1:10:05
I guess I don't.
1:10:05
I.
1:10:06
I don't even have a good.
1:10:08
Here's my good.
1:10:09
Go bucks.
1:10:09
We're gonna go for Texas in two or three days.
1:10:11
So go bucks.
1:10:12
We're going down to Texas and we'll see how that goes.
1:10:14
They still ranked number one, Steve?
1:10:16
I think they might be, yeah.
1:10:18
And I think that's expectations.
1:10:19
Well, that's expectations but the kind of a rocky schedule that I think may not.
1:10:24
Yeah, we'll see.
1:10:25
Anyway, common sense I have brought to you each and every week right from the middle by harbor plus county.