Latest / The Corn(ish) Witch / Embracing Constant Growth and Healing with Olivia Grace Jensen

Transcript

Embracing Constant Growth and Healing with Olivia Grace Jensen · The Corn(ish) Witch

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm sometimes get stuck in a mindset of can't allow myself to have this thing until I'm better.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: I can't allow myself to do this thing because I'm not ready because I'm not healed.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: Then at the same time, do you ever heal?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: Are you always is it a con do you think it's a constant, a constant, ever-evolving thing when it comes to healing?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think we're ever healed.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think we ever get anywhere.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's, and I've experienced myself, there's there's I feel like there's particular pieces, whether it's like personality development work or ancestral healing or soul pieces being retrieved, that once that thing is reclaimed, there's a significant like, okay, that piece is done now.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's really important to not constantly be trying to heal something and not constantly be like, when I'm good enough, when I'm this, when I'm that.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's like people that win the lottery, you know, when I win the lottery, I'll be happy.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then they spend all the money and they're not happy.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when this happens, I'll be happy.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: When I have a partner, I'll be happy.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then you get a partnership, it might be beautiful, but it might trigger the deepest core wound that you have because you haven't felt safe enough to meet that part of you.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: In this episode, I welcome back Olivia Grace Jensen.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: We explore the concept that we are never fully healed, and that healing is an ongoing evolutionary process.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: We discuss how crises and challenging life events often serve as initiations into deeper self-awareness, personal stories around friendship changes, and the collective shifts in understanding gender dynamics.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: We discuss insights into social patterns, archetypes, and the importance of authentic connection beyond societal conditioning.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: This episode is a compelling reminder that transformation is a lifelong, beautiful process.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for having me again.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: Oh you're very welcome.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for coming back.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's really nice to see you again.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um we're sat in uh a new space this time.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: In uh yeah, uh in your gorgeous, gorgeous kitchen.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, lovely, lovely garden, which um just looks the idyllic English garden in summertime.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's very alive, isn't it?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: Very alive, yeah, very alive.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: How have you been?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: Good, yeah, very good.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like a long time ago that we last spoke, even though it's probably not that long ago.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like it was it like it was April.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: Was it April?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Feels like it was still midwinter.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean it was I do remember the rain when I was yeah, when I came down.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm well, I'm well.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm in a really good place and just completed Soft Court of Retreat we talked about last time, which was really special, and really just enjoying the change of the seasons and how alive it feels here at this time, and yeah, it makes a big difference to me because I spend so much time outside.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so um well, thanks for having me again.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: Oh you're very welcome.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: How how was softcore?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: I saw um some posts on Instagram and it looked really, really good.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, how did it all go?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was great, it was really great.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: It I mean, it was a there were aspects that were personally challenging for me.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, because just I'm always growing and learning, you know, as a facilitator and kind of developing my craft.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um the experience in general was just it's just gorgeous.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: The the body of work that is softcore, I feel like really lives inside the three of us.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: I co-facilitate this retreat body of work um with two others called Tracy and Laura, they're really good friends of mine, and we're just so in love with what softcore actually is.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it feels like the first time we held it in Ireland last year, and we were kind of like, okay, we we feel this thing living inside of us and let's do it and see what happens.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then we were kind of like, wow, this is going really well.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: People are having really transformative experiences and softening and changing, and their faces are changing shape, and people are loving each other more, and it was just exquisite, actually, what happened with this very, very, very beautiful group we had in Ireland.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: So it was completely like, of course we're gonna do it again.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like we've we've all we've all grown up, you know, a lot in the last year, and and life has really squeezed all three of us.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um but partly that's what Softcore was born out of, was kind of like a deep need for like soul nourishment and replenishment after intensity, and we're just continually falling in love more with what this is and just seeing the impacts of what actually quite a short amount of time, like four, full days, four to five days, can do when you're in a select space with groups of people and people feel safe enough to drop into their bodies, experience some spaciousness in their heart, and then on the kind of towards the end, we move into the soul and and actually reflecting the mag the magnificence of people to themselves and what we really deeply see in each other, and it just pops something open.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the bud of a flower just goes.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, for a lot of people, and people have come away, and the WhatsApp group is really thriving, people hanging out together, spending time, building friendships, and it's quite remarkable actually, like how simple and incredible love love actually is.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I've I'm really proud actually of of that, and we'll do another one at some point next year.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was gonna say, do you have plans for another retreat?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we will, we will.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: But we need to kind of see how the land lies, but probably in about 18 months' time.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: I know that um I think I mentioned it last time, I can't rem or I can't remember, but St.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: Nect to where St.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: Neptune's Glen is, they have a whole house, basically, which is for people to book retreats that they can facilitate in.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um and obviously you have the waterfall and everything there.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but if you are thinking about a space, okay, looking for a space, then St.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: Nepton's Glen has a dedicated space just for people to go.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's just so stunning.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: It is amazing.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: I took a friend and he was saying, I didn't know places like this exist in the UK.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, well, this is two percent, you know, what we have left of our rainforests, just two percent of what it was, but it's an exquisite tiny pocket of land.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a little Eden, isn't it?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's amazing.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, I love it.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I really want to go up to the Lake District because the the water looks crystal clear.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: That it's absolutely freezing.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: But I would love to go and swim in some of those pools in the lake district.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: That would be very etheric, wouldn't it?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Going for a naked swim in Lake Windermere and yeah.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think I could do a naked swim.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'd be too scared.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: No, I can't.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even like leeches.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Fair enough, I don't like leeches either.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: No, no.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: I actually I was talking to my friend um yesterday, and we were talking about the last time we visited St.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: Nepton's Glen, and one of our friends came out with like tiny leeches on her feet.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, oh I don't know whether I'd want to go all the way in.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: If that's yeah, yeah.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: You have to salt them off, apparently.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I know they don't they're still used in medicine, so I know they're not like that bad for you, but it's just a bit Yeah.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah gross.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, our themes today is gonna be around healing and soul transformation and soft core, and we're gonna have a nice bit of a free flow as well and just see where the conversation takes us.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I think starting with uh healing and soul transformation um is a good place to start.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: I put the podcast on hiatus for about six six weeks, six to eight weeks, um mainly because I had some work stuff that I had to really prioritize, and then I kind of went through a bit of a very low period myself.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I feel like I'm coming out of that now.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: But uh talk to me about that soul transformation and and that healing work and the journey that you go on.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I I see the soul as uh the deep self.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's what a teacher of soul called Michael Meade calls it the deep self.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: And he he has this phrase that he says, it takes the right kind of trouble to get to the deep self.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: I can't remember the exact phrasing.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: And and the idea is that you say the the little self is the ego or the personality, and the deep self is the soul or our inherent natural essence.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, I don't like to necessarily segment things so much of like this is my personality and this is my soul, but I do believe that we are carrying an an essence, all of us have this unique essence that lives in the core of us, which is the soul, and and we are therefore connected to other souls through our soul, and that soul expression transcends who you are as Freya and who I am as Olivier, and our backgrounds and our genders and our colours, and you know, all that stuff.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the the soul kind of lives in a transpersonal space that is beyond time and space, not incarnational, and yet for whatever reason, the soul expression that I have is is living through me and my unique quirks and weirdness as the human being that I am.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say soul-based transformation is really a metamorphosis from who we are to who we truly are, like really allowing that space for our true authentic expression to shine through our personality in this lifetime and and be able to live through the vessel that we have to radiate what it is that we're actually really here for.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: How does it work for people who because I think there's a lot of people out there who don't know who they are and they don't know what their authentic selves are or whether they're a good person or a bad person, or if they're I think with the pressures in society these days and the way sort of our Western civilization and culture is, everyone lives a fast life, and so a lot of people could be completely lost and not know what their true self is.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: How would someone who isn't sure what their deep sort of personality or their deep authentic self is, how would they go through finding that?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there's different ways in, and I I feel like if you want to get quite nerdy about it, yeah, I love nerdy about it.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: Some of the esoteric teachings that I've followed, they they talk about stages of initiation.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so the first stage is you start to see you you might like change your diet or develop a yoga practice or start meditating or start therapy, or there might be some um ways in which lifestyle changes start to make space for kind of that slow, gentle, or it can be intense, but that reckoning with self that comes when we slow down.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: For example, COVID, I think, and I can go down a tangent here, so I'll I'll come back, but I think for some people, COVID showed people that when you're not running around trying to get the tube and you know, and actually spending more time with your children, or you're baking, or you can't go out so much, or you're not spending so much on getting through the week and then splurging at the weekend, so you might get a veg box and spend more time in your garden or get a dog, or those kind of lifestyle changes I feel like were reflecting uh like a macro thing happening in the world soul of we're trying to wake up here, like yeah, like humanity is trying to show us that we've lost where we came from, and actually, this more simple, slow, authentic way of living is really attractive to some people, and because some people had the gift of a lot more time during COVID, they got to make lifestyle-based decisions like moving out of the city, or you know, tweaks here and there or drastic changes that that reminded them of who they really were before they started living the nine to five grind.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of like I would say, like a first stage.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: If you if you want to understand more about who you are, giving yourself time to actually get to know yourself and choosing well, like choosing holistic well-being, eating well, sleeping well, drinking good quality water, spending more time in nature, meditating, putting your hands on your own body, investing in some exploration and self-inquiry, developing somatic awareness of how your body feels, and all of that stuff is is going to create more space for depth of understanding of self.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's kind of various different stages, I won't go through all of them, but where once we start to get a taste of who we really are, we can start to meet those deeper pieces of like calcification or or pain or trauma or suffering that come up when there's a little bit more space to feel.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why so many people don't choose to meet themselves, because it it often means opening the door to the things that we suppress and we numb out, and the ways in which the Netflix habit or the coffees or the sex addiction or the food or whatever it is, whatever that's been masking drugs and alcohol, yeah, once you start to take that away, you get to see or feel like okay, what what actually lives underneath this.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then another way of looking at it is very often people get to know who they really are because they have a crisis and they some part of them might have been knocking on the door for a while saying you're in the wrong relationship, you hate your job, you know, you're living in the wrong place, do you really love what you're doing?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: Do you really respect, you know, the actions and the things that you're choosing to do this life?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then something comes and it's like that's a tarot moment.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: That tarot card in the tarot.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: That moment of reckoning that comes through cancer diagnosis, death, divorce.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um often for a lot of men, they in midlife they there's this Jungian concept, I think it's a Jungian concept, around um the middle passage, which is this time in midlife where you get this deep awakening really that comes when you've now become an adult, you've been living as an adult post-Saturn return for maybe 10-15 years, and something just is not right or doesn't or feels off.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: And uh yeah, for a lot of men it it's initiated by breakup, yeah, you know, suffering, divorce, um, and it you know, happen all different things happen to different people.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I I feel like that's happening on a global scale right now.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: People have always experienced loss and death and crisis.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: But because, as I was saying, I feel like the macro emergence of more the the the drastic requirement of us to do something different to what we're doing, and how many people feel that but don't know how to act or are acting.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: We're in this incredible tension point right now in society where we all know, or so many of us feel, like there's gotta be another way.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: But there's no blueprint, you know.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: We've I think we talked about this last time, we've lost a lot of respect in our leaders.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so really it's kind of like it's the grassroots, it's the individual choices about how we how we choose to live.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: And um kind of lost my train of thought here, but it's like there's no manual, is there?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: I've sometimes you have you seen be beetle juice.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: And when when these two characters die of beetle juice, they literally get given a manual that's like uh um a guide to the afterlife of the recently deceased.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like sometimes we need like a guide on what to do when you're totally when your government is being shitty.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: The ways in which to kind of come back around.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm about to bleed, so I'm like kind of descending into that, like, oh my brain's just bid.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um when when when what we've known is no longer what we believe in or what we know to be true, or what we can put our give our power into anymore, we're in this collective reckoning.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like that is happening on a macro level, but on a micro individual level, that happens through through crisis, and that's often akin to what's can be understood collectively as the dark night of the soul, yeah.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: When we reach this point, and there's different kind of esoteric teachings about this, and I don't think there's any like this is the way, this is what a dark night of the soul is, but what I understand it to be is kind of in that more like secondary stage of the initiatory path of like landing more of your soul or embodying more of who you are as a soul happens, you get to meet these places that really just don't know what love is and are terrified, and it's kind of like the dungeons, you know, of the psyche and the body, and that all might sound really scary for people, and it and it can be, but it also I feel like it's that it's that passageway, that kind of underground tunnel to a greater aliveness, to a deeper understanding of self.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want that, like I'm someone who's always wanted that, I've always known there's more.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, always, always, always known there's more, and even now, you know, as I go about my daily life, I feel like I I know I don't really have to know how to describe it, but like I feel like I'm anchored somewhere that believes so deeply in the sacred that I always want to grow and surrender to life as it is, and no matter how messy and clunky and how much I resist, I definitely resist and you know make hell for myself.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like I I want to be the most free expression of myself that I can, and that means meeting the places in which my soul is like, hello, let me in here, yeah, let me love you.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: He's talking about talking about resistance and resisting that that dark night of the soul, resisting that going through that transformation, which you know you have to sort of the only way out is through, and that means you have to go through through pain.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: And the therapist said to me recently that um it's something you you you know, people and you spirit you end up spiritually bypassing it.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's like it's there, and it's like you said, it's reaching out and it's saying, You need this to happen, like I need you to listen to me, and you just keep putting it off, and just like you can't keep spiritually bypassing it.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like it it has you need to let it happen, obviously in a safe and controlled way, um, whereas sometimes people it doesn't happen for a safe and con controlled way for a lot of people.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: And well, there's no control in life.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah for you, you know, yeah, we're not like living in a um secure playground, like life life happens, and that can be really challenging.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like on the back end of like a really intense long period of heartbreak, I I feel like I'm now stabilized enough in a position to be able to see I wouldn't have chosen it.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I obviously needed that in some way, like some part of me obviously needed not I'm not saying I deserve heartbreak or yeah, like I chose it, you know, consciously or whatever, but I feel like our outer reality reflects what's happening on the inside and the the level of initiation that that experience was for me, has propelled me into a deeper connection with self and a deeper choice to love myself in a way that I've never ever ever felt so stable and in love with myself because I really chose myself.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um not saying I feel like that all the time, and that there's a lot of days where I'm like, oh god, you look awful or you know, feel bad about myself or critique who I am, and you know that kind of thing.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: But in general, like there's there's such a deeper anchor point of like who I know myself to be and my boundaries and my.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Choices and what I want from my life, and that came through an initiation that I would never have chosen consciously.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it was I think it's been the making of me as the woman that I am now, and people say the same about motherhood and various different things that we go through, yeah.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what is so alluring for people who are in touch with call it soul, call it spirituality, I don't know, it's different for everybody, yeah, and so scary for people that aren't.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's because for those of us that want to touch the full spectrum of human existence and to feel pleasure and pain and and to know ourselves and to have really deep relationships and to have gorgeous love making and and you know be creative and like bring our projects and our passions forward and live in the way that our hearts desire.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like there's some kind of inner flame that propels those of us that are like that forward.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that's not really a choice, you know.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think we can choose how we engage with that flame, but I think some of us are just wired like that.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like more and more younger generations are coming in with that kind of burning for a different world.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: With um I think when people start going on this journey of being more true to themselves and finding themselves, and you do go through pain, I think you go through and it you start to learn your own boundaries as well, as you mentioned.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: You do go through loss.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: And like sometimes that can be um friends that you've you know known all your life, or even, you know, very close family members that you have to sort of cut your losses and because it's not it's not serving you.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's not serving you as in like in it's not doing you any good.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: And that can be that can be really scary for people because you know, especially family, like sometimes your family is all you know, and then where's your support system gone and how do you yeah, how do you go through that?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: Which I think I guess is probably why a lot of people I suppose do that spiritual bypassing, because the journey is just too might just might be too much.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: There's too much, there's too much of a risk.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: They might feel like the risk doesn't outweigh like the the pros don't outweigh the outweigh the risk that they can't see a positive um resolution at the end of it, which is scary.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: I know that I think since getting into my 30s and I say in the last sort of seven years with friendships particularly there uh there are friendships that I just don't I don't have anymore because it was draining and it wasn't serving me a purpose and I just we just weren't aligning.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like there was just that this the alignment was gone.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: And like it felt like it feels easier.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, maybe it's because I'm getting older, but it felt easier to just sort of say no.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: I have a friend.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, she put it perfectly actually, it's really she was really funny.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: She went, Freya, when you get into your 30s, sometimes you've got to just you just gotta cut off some bitches.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like um, and I was like, she was like, Don't literally cut them though.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, No, I get what you mean.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, it's just you just it's kind of like your a part of your brain wakes up and goes, Why am I here?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: Why am I doing that?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and I don't I don't look to end friendships on a sour note, or you know, I don't look to end friendships uh under a fight or anything like that.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: But I think because the other person can be so offended and affected by it and they don't understand, and then I think it can also can come down to control as well, and then their own sort of feelings, then it can, you know, and unfortunately get a little bit messy as well, and that can be really hard.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: And uh um another reason as to why people want to avoid, want to avoid it.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because it's like I think we're all scared of being alone as well.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and the metamorphosis process of becoming, moving from A to B, growing into the next version of ourselves, which as women we do every month, anyway.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: There's an inevitability of loss because we we change shape and we transform and we transfigure, and people who at one point felt really reflective of that version of us will naturally fall away as who we are changes, and that can be such a delicate, tender, painful process.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think the loss of friendship is kind of an undiscussed um grief that can be really painful.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um there's not so much kind of written or shared or you know talked about in films and popular culture and things like that, and and sometimes it can be necessary.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um I remember when I moved to New Zealand, I I deleted everyone off social media.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: I and and I didn't do it very gracefully at all.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like I left a lot of WhatsApp groups, I just really I needed space to work out who I was, and I just felt really ready for a change.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: I can imagine that that hurts of feelings and people worried about me, you know, over the course of the last eight years of kind of change and cycles.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's definitely been times when my family have been very worried about me and haven't known how to relate with who I am and trying to meet the new version of me and going through a metamorphosis kind of dark night of the soul process is actually very painful to watch from the outside for people that love you because it it's scary to to watch somebody go through like a period of darkness, which is what I did.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um and that that definitely definitely had an impact on some of my relationships because especially as I'd lived abroad because I went away and was doing all this kind of inner work and exploration and changing and growing, and then I would come back to the UK and meet people not as the person that I was, and then I'd get glimmers of who I was and and it was really quite a janky process, and I feel like it's only actually now often completing a seven-year cycle that I'm more akin to who I was before I left.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's interesting that you say seven-year cycle because it that's been coming up a lot for me recently.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: And my my it's interesting, my mum has always said, you know, we go through seven-year cycles on a cellular level.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: We go through seven-year cycles.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um sometimes, you know, on a on on an emotional level, a psychological level, if you know, something's happened or you're going through a dark time, you know, it's a seven-year cycle.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and I think there's something really sort of true around that, you know.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's just inevitable that we are as mid-30s women.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how old you are.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm 37 now, so I'm gonna start a new cycle.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, because I'm coming to the end.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: So when I turn 38, I s well, yeah.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, when I turn 38, I'll be, you know.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess I'm just sort of on a cellular level.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: It makes sense that I am actually where I am at the moment and what I've recently sort of gone through makes sense because it's yeah, it's seven years and I'm transforming again.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: Where there's friends of mine who are I'm actually gonna write a piece about this and maybe I'll share it with you.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: But the other day I've been I've been voice messaging two friends.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: One just lost a baby at nine weeks, and one has just told me she's pregnant and she's nine weeks.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I have friends who are getting engaged, getting married, getting pregnant.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: I've got friends who are doing IVF, I've got friends who are failing IVF and and not knowing whether they're gonna be able to try again.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: I've got friends who are getting divorced.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've got friends who are entering perimenopause and feeling crazy.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: I've got really close friends who are out the other side of menopause, I've got friends who are deeply in menopause.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the whole spectrum of the the women in my life, you know, ranging from 30 to 50.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Everything exists in this time frame.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it and it also creates this this the beautiful thing is I think it it shows an incredible capacity of of female friendships to hold the full spectrum of what it means to be a woman.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like yeah, you know, I've got friends in in their early 40s planning a family with someone, and suddenly there's a breakup, and and being, you know, aware of of having to really be conscious of those collective narratives of projection that oh god, you know, are you gonna meet someone?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: Are you gonna be able to have a family?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: Time's rolling out, like and then there's you know, and then there's other ways of looking at it, which is like you just set yourself free, you know, to to live the life that you really want.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: And everything happens in these years, and it's such a powerful time, and and there's inevitability of darkness and descent, you know, like losing children, birthing, like it's the biggest initiation through the body that a woman can have.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then, yeah, women who haven't had children don't want them might not appreciate the gravitas of that for others.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like I'm just watching this happen inside of me and in all my friendships and just feeling like wow, it's such an enormous type that we're we're in at this age.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I think with motherhood, with the with motherhood, when you become a mother, you also, you know, with that birth, there's also a death of your old self as well.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: And then it's understandable that, you know, women, mothers will feel like they've gotten and lost their sense of identity, and then they might go through a grieving process with that, and then they might, you know, it's gonna take time for them to sort of get back part of their old selves or go, I am still that person.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: I've just, you know, got you know, I'm also a mother now as well.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes I remember what I was working with, um uh I was working in a in a community mental health team, and um I think we were dealing like with psychosis and postpartum psychosis as well.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: And um one of the mental health nurses said to me, Um, you do lose your identity becoming a mum, and that can be so hard to because you're just suddenly mum and and you're not, you know, you're not you're not Freya anymore, you're mum.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: And that can be really, really, really hard and really jarring, and you know, you just don't know where you are anymore and you don't know who you are.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, it's like it's like a balance, isn't it?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: You're bringing this new life into the world, but at the same time, you're saying goodbye to that old part of yourself.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I can see how there's a grieving process for that as well.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's why it's so important, I think, to honour the the closing of the bones as an example of a ceremony you can do, or 40 days postpartum, or just the ongoing requirement of what it is to be a mum.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I just cannot believe how much my mum has given to us.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's really unfathomable actually what she gave and continues to give.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: I just have a little taste of it, you know, having a dog, but my God, three children, she just fully devoted her like 30 years of her life.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think we really appreciated that.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know what you mean.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: My mum's a single mum of four.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: And she raised us all just basically, I mean, we had the help she had the help of my of her dad, my papi, um, who's still in our lives, which is incredible.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, she it was just her.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, even even as a single mum, if you've got childcare, I I can imagine that those nights when you go to bed and you're thinking, have I done the right thing?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: Is this the right decision?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like d I I remember I had a friend in New Zealand who was a single mum, and she said the biggest thing that she ch she found challenging was not having someone to bounce parenting off with because she didn't know, you know, should I make this decision, should I not make that decision?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: And just the the gravitas and the weight of of deciding certain things um yeah, being alone in that is it's huge.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_03: See, one thing that makes my mum sad is that we've if you know, if we're out or she's out and she sees families with young children together, or she sees like children playing and having fun, I think it makes her heartache a little bit because she was like, I was I was always working, and I miss not having that time with you all when you were little and we could all have fun and play together.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, but I didn't see it like that, like you know, yeah, it was it was a tricky, sometimes it was a tricky childhood and it was a tricky time, and you know, being a single mum is never easy, but I think you know, you kind of set the standard for a work ethic for us as well, you know.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: And that makes me sad and she's like, Oh, you know, I just feel like I've missed out on those times when I could have sort of been with you more in the summer holidays, but I had to work.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Yeah, you had to work, but you know, you you had to work to keep us all surviving.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: There's an Instagram account called The Hillistic Psychologist, can't remember her, and then she's she's written a book called How to Do the Work, which I haven't read, but I but I really love following her on Instagram and and she often posts about the dichotomy of one thing being you know, one of the deepest privileges that you can have is coming from a safe background and having a stable father figure and a loving mother and those kind of things.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then also coming from adversity, how that actually can shape you as a person and and make you more empathetic and develop work ethic.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: And and I I definitely see that in in a very close friend of mine.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: We often talk about this, um, who had an incredible amount of adversity in her life and how that's shaped her and and the gifts and the beauty that comes from that.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: Which is not to, you know, do a disservice to some of the other things that she's had to deal with.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think it does shape you.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: I always I always used to think that when I'd listened to Desert Island Discs, um, which I used to be obsessed with.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: Especially what's her name, Kirsty Gallagher.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: Is it Kirsty Gallagher?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: Kirsty something.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: She is just amazing.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just the way she interviews is just like art, I think.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, um, where was I going with this?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: The I always used to think, wow, the people who have really done something fantastic, it came from some level of suffering.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: It came from a striving, it came from that inner flame.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: I've got to create, I've got to make something of myself, I've got to propel myself forward.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's I'm just thinking of someone that I used to know who came from a very, very secure background, like parents are still together, sort of had a really lovely childhood, wanted for nothing, um, never went through any sort of adversity.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: And their empathy and compassion that they was they they it felt like it was so small, their understanding of life just felt so small compared to someone who, like you said, has been through adversity.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, by their empathy and compassion, it it's more they're more sensitive, it's more in tune.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: And there were just sort of some situations and some some sort of things or situations and circumstances where they just wouldn't get it.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: They just wouldn't understand it.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_03: And they'll because they've never experienced it.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes it could be something just so simple as just like, you know, have a bit of consideration or just no, just be a little bit more assertive and they'll be like, well, why?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_03: Just doesn't why?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: And and and no one should have to go through adversity, you know.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: We all should it would be lovely if we could all have a secure upbringing and and and you know really good, valid experiences.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um but you know, that's not always the way.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_03: But it's like you said, there is something to say about going through pain and suffering.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: And it's balance, isn't it?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, life can't be good all the all the time.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I've s kind of seen that, you know, this person who never had anything sort of bad to them all the way growing up happen.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um compared to someone like me who has been through adversity, we were very, very different.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: And like, you know, it's like someone says two people could go through the same situation at the exact same time and they would come out with completely polar opposite experiences.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, and it's just yeah, it's it kind of blew I'm it just kind of blew my mind a little bit because on the one hand I kind of envy this person, um, you know, who kind of has sort of you know a really stable family, having family, really, you know, um financially stable, has always had like really good experiences.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_03: But the interesting thing was that when they did have to face adversity, when something did happen, um, they didn't know how to handle it.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, of course, because the resilience muscle is tested.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: And then that became really tricky for them.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: They just like sort of didn't know what to do.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: They just sort of shut down.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's just inevitable.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: Something's gonna happen in life.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's just inevitable.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can't just you can't coast as much as we'd all love to.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_03: You just can't coast through.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think uh it makes us appreciate the good times more.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I was listening to a podcast yesterday actually, um, about horror.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_03: And uh this this woman who was um the guest guest on this podcast, she said, when the world is going through more adversity and more suffering, we watch horror more because it's a comfort.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: Because somewhere inside of us, things are bad, but we're not getting chased by a serial killer, you know, kind of thing.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, we find it so there's a side whole psychology behind it that when the world is going through a really shit time, we tend to watch more horror movies.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I've read more books about grief in the last 18 months than I have in my whole life.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because I've I was looking for external reflections and words that wrap around the experience that I was having.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: And as someone who loves to write and is obsessed with reading, that's where I go to.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: And there's been particular music albums or books that have just articulated loss in such a primal way that was able to touch something that I know to be true in myself that very rarely well, not for me, because I have I'm very privileged.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: I've got really amazing friends in my life who have done some deep inner excavation, and so they can really be with when life falls apart, you know, they can really be with that, and and I was very supported, but there's also experiences of that not being able to be met.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's you know, in in the way that it's it's fine, and that's fine.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: But it's kind of better off not to go there with someone who doesn't want to go there or can't hold it because it's quite a lonely, isolating experience.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: But there's a couple of books that I read that I was just like, oh, this is this is it.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is the articulation of and it really it really helped me and satiated something I was looking for.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think a really incredible album to listen to when you're going through some sort of grief process, whether it's heartbreak or loss of a loved one, be it a friendship, be it a parent, be it a pet, you know, whether that loss is you're just not speaking anymore, or that loss is, you know, physical, like they've you know, they've passed away.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: I found a really incredible album by Hosier.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: So his most recent one, which came out a few years ago, is called Unreal Unearth, and that is beautiful.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, and his songs have come from a really, really deep place.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think he's based it on, like I think he was very heavily inspired, sort of like by Dante's Inferno and like the Seven Circles of Hell, but you can tell he's writing from a place of grief, and his lyrics, just the songs I would really, really recommend like deeply listening to that album, especially if you're going through some sort of grief process, because I just yeah, it's very it's a very validating album if you're going through it.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, you really need it.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, The Unknown is such a beautiful, beautiful song.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it's you know, it can be interpreted in a lot of different ways, like clearly it's about some sort of relationship ending.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: You could interpret it as a romantic relationship, you could interpret it as you know just a platonic relationship or the loss or a death of a loved one.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: But also what is so interesting is like when I really listen, I mean it's such a beautiful song, but I listen to unknown, I um also see it in a very religious way because the way the lyrics are makes me feel like it's the heartbreak between God and Lucifer.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's really Really interesting.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, because he says, like I was from a lake of fire and walk across a frozen sea, and it's just like that's all yeah.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_03: That's almost biblical.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of it is.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: I he's a genius.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like a genius.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:18
  unknown: Yeah.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think sometimes yeah, a lot of people do look back to those kind of like biblical references for I don't I don't know, a framework for how we understand transcendental experiences of of life, whether that's grief, loss, death, love, pain, yeah, beauty.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like it it it's it is etheric and soul-based in nature, and and the soul is not a tangible thing.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's this intangible essence that so many of us are trying to wrap words around or put feeling to when we listen to music or read books or meet someone, whereas for me, I I can feel that like, oh, there's a heavy dose of soul here.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like I can feel it.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'd highly recommend Unreal Aneart.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, I'm I mean I'd recommend Hose's albums anyway, because he's such a wonderful songwriter.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: But Unreal Aneart, it really like hits you in the feels.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's very validating.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, oh, he's been through it.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I get it, I get it.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_03: I hear what you say, I know what you mean.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: So for anyone who's struggling with loss out there, listen to that album.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it's yeah, I find it it's a very healing album, which I think is great.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think music is so important the way it can literally like resonate inside of you.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, with those vibrations.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: Incredible.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um I've lost my train of thought now because I went off on a tangent about music.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um but yeah.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_03: Do you feel like when people say I'm on a healing journey, I'm on a s or I'm on this transformation journey, or I'm you know, I'm going through healing.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: Do you f and people are like, I can't do that until I've healed yet?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I've been like that.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm sometimes get stuck in a mindset of I can't allow myself to have this thing until I'm better.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: I can't allow myself to do this thing because I'm not ready, because I'm not healed.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: But then at the same time, do you ever heal?
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: Are you always is it a con do you think it's a constant, a constant, ever-evolving thing when it comes to healing?
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think we're ever healed.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think we ever get anywhere.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's and I've experienced myself, there's there's I feel like there's particular pieces, whether it's like personality development work or ancestral healing or soul pieces kind of being retrieved.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: That once that thing is reclaimed, there's a significant, like, okay, that piece is done now.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: For example, if someone has always really struggled with boundaries because they had their boundaries transgressed as a child, if they, for whatever reason, get themselves to a point where they feel like their boundaries are really solid, often that's like, cool, you got that piece down.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's not to say that there might never be anything again around boundaries that might trigger or be a challenge, and it might be something to constantly be working with.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like sometimes there's like a clunk where we're just like, okay, that thing that really used to challenge me, is not a challenge anymore.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have particular views about myself that are very outdated that I don't think about anymore, and uh is not a part of my life anymore because I've moved through that particular piece.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um I feel like there's also, depending on who you are, and I think this is particularly important now.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think it's really important to not constantly be trying to heal something and not constantly be like, when I'm good enough, when I'm this, when I'm that.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's like people that win the lottery, you know, when I win the lottery, I'll be happy.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then they spend all the money and they're not happy.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when when this happens, I'll be happy.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: When I have a partner, I'll be happy.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then you get a partnership, it might be beautiful, but it might trigger the deepest core wound that you have because you haven't felt safe enough to meet that part of you.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's not a bad thing, but I just think we don't ever really transcend, you know, we don't really ever get anywhere.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: But for sure there can be developmental stages and and kind of stages and phases that we go through.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's something important about being self-aware.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: For example, like I didn't feel open to relating with anyone because I felt it was really important for me to honour a time of not seeking relationship, of not seeking connection.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that felt really true.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: So that was more like when I feel better, when I feel ready, not better, when I feel ready, I will open up again.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um I guess if I was coming from a place of when I'm not X, Y, or Z enough anymore, you know, or like I'll only relate again when I'm perfect, yeah.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: Then that would limit me from living a possible expression of of life.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um because I'm waiting for perfection that's never gonna happen.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_03: I need to get past that place because I am I'm very much like, well, I can't do that until I've met this and I won't allow myself to experience this until I am, you know, at a certain place in my life, and and it's it's it's very what's the word I'm looking for?
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_03: You're literally like getting in the way of yourself the whole time.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_03: You're constantly getting in the way of yourself.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_03: And you're I think you subconsciously start putting in these unattainable um goals and expectations, yeah, and then you forget about meeting the reality of it.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think sometimes we are possibly in a phase where we just feel stuck and and it can feel like I've definitely had phases like this with my work where it feels like I'm just wading through treacle and I berate myself or I'm kind of questioning and spinning, and and then inevitably there's like a being popped through, and it's like okay, I can see I can see why I was wading through treacle because something deeply was being revealed to me, and I have to trust that process.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, I do think you know, like if you if someone was to say, I'll only start eating healthily when I have more money, or I'll only start doing this when I have X, Y, Z, it it kind of takes away our agency to be able to make change in the day-to-day.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: Going for a walk is free.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah, like spending more time in sunlight is free.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's there's these ways in which we can improve and make change that don't require full system rehaul.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I I feel like that's a core part of the work that I do with people actually is the initial stages of working together is very often about holistic well-being.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: And how do you make the changes that are actually feasible and attainable in your day-to-day life as it is now, and then build from that place.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the basics of habit forming because we can we can kind of have these like nebulous ideas of God, wouldn't it be great if I'm someone that meditates for an hour every day?
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then live in this idea that everything's gonna be fine when you meditate an hour every day.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, if you start taking five minutes of quiet time in the sunshine every day, before you know it, you're very far along the track of becoming someone that meditates every day.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: But there's maybe not this idea of like, I have to do this because that means that I'm gonna be like Jodie Spencer or you know, some like transcendental mind.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I have to sit on my yoga cushion in the living room and light some in the sense and cross my legs and just close my eyes.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like if it's not sacred, it's not uh special, or you know, all that stuff.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's just about yeah.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I see this so much with my dog.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like I really I've really had to take the opportunities as they come.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I used every single opportunity that comes up in real time to train him and teach him.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't try and wait for like the perfect architecture of training because it just doesn't happen.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I get out there and I yeah, just take the opportunities as they come.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: And and I have seen how transformative that is because I'm fully in control of that experience because he's a dog and he doesn't have any of those voices that are like, I don't want to do this.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: So that's really shown me a lot actually for my work is how much and I do it too, my god, how much we can live in this kind of self-obsessed story of like, oh, I'm like this or I like that, or and and how we can limit ourselves in that place.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's interesting that you said architecture, because I've had that word in my head for the last five minutes, like architecture, and I've just been sort of visualizing, you know, thinking about our souls, the architecture of our souls, it's constantly it's constantly being built upon, and then bits are constantly falling down, and then new bits are being built upon, and then other bits are falling away, or other bits might be crumbling and might need repairing.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like we are constantly building, like we are the architects, and we're constantly architects, we're the architects of our soul.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: And eventually it's like I said about that collective and conscious, you know, we're all it's gonna get so big, parts of us, our architecture is gonna merge with others, you know, it's all gonna have that connection.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then it's finding I think it's finding the right architecture that can support you and you can support them, you know, the right building, the right structures.
• 54:12
  unknown: Yeah.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's probably a terrible metaphor.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's a beautiful metaphor, the the architecture of salt.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great segue into softcore, the retreat that talks about.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because what what my work aims to do and what softcore also aims to do is to put enough architecture of well-being around people so that people are sleeping well, eating well, feeling safe, yeah, the nervous system calms, the bodies drop, there's like a significant doof in the space, and then that deeper healing work can happen from that place because the body is malleable and softening and able to feel what needs to be felt, pieces start to arrive, pieces start to come up, pieces start to melt away.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I think without a healthy vessel, you know, without being really well and well-nourished emotionally, spiritually, psychologically, physically, we're kind of no use to anyone.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's so much of what's happening in the collective is that because of all the reasons I'm sure everyone is saying is aware of, like busyness and modern life and toxic lifestyles and all that kind of thing, a lot of us are running on empty and really just trying to get by.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a base level of survival and that that people are living in.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: And to live outside of that takes such incredible work and risk and dedication to not kind of jumping on the treadmill just like everyone else.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think to come back to COVID, like that's one of the things that COVID showed people, is you don't actually have to live like that.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, no one's got a gun to your head and saying you have to live the way that you are.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: But because we get so submerged in the collective way of being, yeah, that it took something so drastic that basically shut the world down where everyone's on the same page.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then I feel like there was actually authentic choice that was able to expose itself.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_02: And some people did change their life, and some people went exactly back to how things work.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, so I I feel like any soul work, any deep time of excavation is it's it's crucial that the body and is well to be able to navigate that journey.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: And and sometimes that is part of the journey.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like a health crisis might be the the torch, you know, the flame that lights the torch paper.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um we're not always, you know, able to be in the state that we physically want to be in or we can be in.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: There's different factors and reasons for that, you know, some of it is socioeconomic and health-based and disability-based and you know, all that kind of thing.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: But if it's possible to look after self as well as you possibly can, that will just ease the times in life when things get rocky.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's a level of resourcing that's there that means that it's a bit more flex in the system.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_03: Soft core, are you still doing do you still run your temple?
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not doing my temple anymore.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um maybe I'll talk about it here because it's word of mouth.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm doing a word of mouth, word of mouth circle in my house in North Coast Cornwall.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_02: So if you want to come to that, you can reach out to me.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, I'm doing an experiment to build community offline.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was, as I was saying to you before the podcast, I spent near nine months marketing a retreat, which I will continue to work with.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: I have my mentorship work, um, and I'm also a writer and I write a lot and have a subset.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I just found that the level of basically time on social media and marketing I was having to do to make local events happen just felt like not actually where I really want to put my energy and my time, which is a shame because I love I love what I do.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like there is a real desire for more sacred spaces where intimacy can be explored.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm gonna trial building grassroots community, word of mouth, and seeing what happens when people of resonance kind of back to the old days, you feel where you go to something and you say, That was really great, hopefully.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_02: Bring a friend.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, who brings a friend, who brings a friend, and that that's what I really want from my spaces.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about having, you know, a million people there, it's about the people there being so in resonance that there's a really strong field where people get to really be touched by the experience and and meet new people, you know, meet new friends and build connections, and that for me is success, you know.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm exploring something different.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_03: I think uh that sounds beautiful.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I was talking earlier about how I have a a circle that I go to every couple of weeks, and you know, it's with social media, it's so hard because you have to you have to make sure that the algorithm is still with you, and in order to do that, you have to then post because the algorithm works on posts, doesn't it?
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like making sure you're posting at least every single day.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I was speaking to a a lady yesterday about this, and she was saying like the social media side is so hard because you have to consistently like be in it all the time and trying, it's also just so exhausting as well, and then you kind of feel like disc almost disconnected from your from your work.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's more for me, it's more about right relationship and aliveness than like a plan of when you should or shouldn't post.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I see people and know people who they have a great social media following and it's very alive and active, and I think it's less about what they do, but it's more how they do it.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, for me, like I I didn't have the aliveness in me to really like create stuff that is gonna land with people in a way that's like, oh yeah, I really feel that.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I I kind of felt that aliveness to trickle away from me for that, and and I really try and listen to that because I can feel it, you know, when I write something or post something and my my heart's not really in it, yeah.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that doesn't feel good, and I also that doesn't land either.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's the thing where there's like some heft behind it that's like, oh yeah, like this has got a bit of spice and yeah life behind it.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_03: People if people wanted to come um to your circle or you know, experiencing a soft core workshop for the very first time, um, and I think I might have spoken about this in our last podcast.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_03: Uh what can they what can they expect to see from like a very, very first session who have like got no experience in it, might be quite nervous and you know, might even come with some trauma or some like anticipation or yeah.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, so many people got stuff around group and feeling safe in group, and yeah, it's really common.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so everything I do basically builds on that foundational pillar of holistic well-being.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_02: So all group work that I do is about helping people feel safe in the space, dropping into the body, getting a felt sense of like groundedness and rootedness and presence in the moment.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then there might be some kind of self-inquiry, connection, feeling ourselves as alone and together.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_02: So it's connection to self first and then connection to group from a place of feeling really rested and rooted.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um sometimes it's conversational, sometimes there's creative expression, self-inquiry, and ritual softcore is very ritualistic.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we do lots of movement and dancing, and it's a lot of fun.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of fun and and sharing and kind of follow this trajectory of body, heart, and soul.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_02: So dropping into the body first and expanding into meeting the heart and some of the tender places that can come when we drop into the body, and then soul, which is like okay, now we're feeling a bit more soft and safe with each other.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_02: That authentic essence starts to pour out.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_02: You don't even have to try, it just happens because that's who we are.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it starts to shine forward when we feel safe in a group where we know we're not being judged and we don't have to have our guard up, and it's just an inevitability of expression and joy that bubbles up from that place.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of the architecture of everything that I do, even if it's just a two-hour workshop or working with me for three months or five-day retreat or whatever.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's so much about nervous system, safety, self-connection, body care, touch, and then being present with anything that arises and then working out, okay, who really am I?
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what am I really here for?
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_02: How do I want to express?
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like what what do I want to feel?
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_02: What does my life look like?
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_02: What what would what would life be like if I really said yes to the things that I really want?
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds amazing.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_03: When you um when you have your sessions up and running, I will definitely, yeah, want to come and take part.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, the first one is in July.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_03: July.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_03: July the when because I'm away towards the end of July.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's 9th of July.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's fine.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_03: We can yeah.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_03: What day is that?
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's a Thursday.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna do the month month a Thursday evening.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're listening and you're in Cornwall and you want to come, just reach out to me on Instagram, probably is the best place.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, softcore will happen again.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_02: We've got an unofficial wait list, so you can also reach out to me and find out more.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_02: And if people want to work with me, I do in-person sessions um from my house in Cornwall.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's bodywork and like ritualistic work for women.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then mentorship for kind of creative potential, self-leadership, intimacy, things like that.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I also work with men, which I we talked about last time.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_03: Did yeah, yeah, that was really nice.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think that I liked that conversation because it kind of got me out of my negative space a little bit, and my I need to stop tarring them all at the same brush, which is very easy to do.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well men men get a bad rep, you know.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I really understand that because there's lots of statistics, you know, that that are terrifying.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_02: I just read um it's up there, Rebecca Solnit.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_02: She's a feminist writer.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_02: She wrote an essay called Men Explain Things to Me.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it was it's it was it started because she went to a dinner party of like a she called it like a Ralph Lorraine um style, like log cabin, like very kind of posh.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_02: You can imagine that kind of archetypal American upper class kind of thing.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_02: And she'd written a book about something, and and the host came over and said, Have you heard of that very clever book that's just come out about this topic?
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_02: And and she was like, Yes, I have actually.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_02: And her friend was standing next to him and saying, It's her book, it's her book, it's her book.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_02: And she said it four times until the guy actually listened and was like, Oh, and it turned out he hadn't read the book, you know, he didn't actually really know anything about it.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_02: He was mansplaining, although that wasn't a term that was around then.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, so she wrote this essay Men Explain Things to me.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it really connected with the collective zeitgeist of all the ways in which women have felt and can feel like talked down to or insecure or brushed over.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then she did an academic version, so academic men explain things to me.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's so much misogyny in academia.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um and of course, you know, there's like so many things that are coming out.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_02: Epstein files, the Mother Ass website, etc.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_02: etc., that really yeah, show show us that that women in domestic relationship in the home have something to worry about.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like not obviously everyone, but you know, there's like significant statistics around abuse by trusted people in someone's life.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_02: However, that's not the case for for everyone, and part of why I hold mixed gender spaces is because I firmly believe in the goodness of the human spirit and in the soul being um beyond our outer form.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like it's really important to have spaces where we where we are with each other regardless of what bodies we're in.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um and we have a lot to learn from each other, I think, and in the same way that a lot of women carry a lot of charge or fear of men, men do the same, you know, they carry a lot of charge and fear around women, and we're in this mad time of gender wars, you know.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's just so the more I think with safety and love and and places of trust where we can collapse some of these supercharged up projections and prejudices around each other, the the better, you know.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was raised by s you know, I've got only sisters.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_02: My my dad was just is just the most gorgeous human being, you know.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_02: I feel so lucky to have had the imprint from a man that I've had from him.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I've always been really attracted to working with men.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think that's partly why.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_03: Which is which is lovely, and I and I kind of envy you for that because I didn't have that from my biological dad.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_03: But I had a little bit from my papi, I suppose, because we because he started to s I say I've probably he's essentially started to help raise us when I was around nine years old.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, and he's still around today and he is just that's amazing, incredible.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's like 94 this year.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, he's just grand.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_03: He's just so he's just amazing.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_03: He's just wonderful, a really wonderful person, wonderful human being.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, but I shy away from working with men.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, if there's you know, if there's male presence, whether it's in a work environment or a social environment, I instantly like um like like that my back is up straight away.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like very much in like a protective mode where I I give off vibes and say, do not come near me, don't don't interact with me.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_03: If you interact with me, it's gonna be on a very basic level.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not, you know, here for anything else.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um which then has its own consequences.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody's on their own unique journey, I think, with all of these places, and it just it just takes as long as it takes, and we just have to be present and loving, I think, towards where we are on the path, because there's there's huge archetypal themes playing through the very human, fragile experience of life.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_03: There's so much out there on the news and TV documentaries and social media as well, you know, about the statistics around misogyny.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, you'll see like reels of podcasts, you know, either of um oh what are they called?
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the manas like the manosphere community, and they're doing their podcasts spouting bullshit.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then you'll see another, you know, podcast where they're talking about the statistics and they're challenging um, you know, those extremists, I suppose you could call them extremists, aren't they?
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um and you can easily get sucked into that, easily get sucked into it, and then yeah, you end up on a kind of like one-track mindset and it's like, well, you know, 92% of all violent crimes are committed by men.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_03: And if you know, men say, well, who need you know, we need to protect women, it's like from what?
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_03: From you, there was no men around who wouldn't be protecting, and it's just yeah, you kind of get you can get into a bit of a toxic spiral.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I think it's really nice that you have this sort of self-awareness to be very balanced about it and to have that hope going forward and that that that that belief, like you said, in in the soul and in humanity and the goodness of people.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, which I think is something we could all we could all do, whereas more and all learn from.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_02: And anybody who is becoming a an abuser is very likely a victim of abuse.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I've I've come across numerous men who who were abused in childhood by their own mother, you know, like it's it's not binary, nothing in this world is binary.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um Maya Luna, um, do you know Maya Luna?
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_03: Maya Luna.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_02: She's an irregular poet.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's a spiritual teacher.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_02: She's the Venus Path on Instagram.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_02: She has a whole body of work where she's kind of unpeeling these narratives around patriarchal masculinity and dominator over culture.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_02: And she is just, I think, the the best coming from I guess kind of what your audience or a wit witchy audience might be interested in.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_02: She is unpeeling so many narratives around how we've got to where we've got to when it comes to patriarchal masculinity, and and it's all framed in this context of initiation that she's been through and the work that she does around what she calls the mystery religion of love and goddess culture and um the the myths around Persephone and Hades and Inano and Ishtar Aphrodite.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so if anybody's interested in sex work, she she has a paid substack where she talks about um her experiences as a sacred prostitute and um having done erotic massage for 15 years, and it's such an exquisite depiction of that work, and also really highlights the male psyche and why so many men come to someone like her for deep healing, yeah.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_02: And and really what it means for them to be touched with like the hands of the goddess, you know, and Eros and love.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_02: And and I feel like for anyone who wants to understand the male psyche and and the the very vulnerable parts of of why men are yearning for touch and love, that's a really beautiful thing to listen to.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_02: And in general, her podcast and her substack is like I'm peeling so many layers, it's just incredible, actually.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_02: This whole body of work that's coming through her.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_02: I I've just listened to a few interviews she did with a guy called Ian McKenzie, okay, who's also got a podcast called The Mythic Masculine, and that's also something that's really good to listen to to understand more about where men are coming from, and he talks about the kind of roots of men's work, and it's just there's just so much to it, and I feel like that really can help have people see men need deep healing and initiatory rites of passage and love and care, yeah, just like women do, and there's so many spaces for women, and there's a lot of spaces now for men, yeah, but we kind of yeah, we kind of all need this work regardless of gender.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_02: So there's some good resources that I would recommend.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_03: That is something I'm definitely gonna go and listen to, and um yeah, and on Instagram, yeah, thank you.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um Soul transformation and self-healing.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_03: What books would you recommend for people to start out with if they want to start this journey?
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh Awakening the Soul by Michael Mead.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't read it, but there's a book called Soulcraft by Bill Clo Bill Plotkin.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_02: He's one of the kind of seminar teachers on um vision questing and and nature and connection to the soul.
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's definitely not about soul explicitly, but Rupee Kore is a Sri Lankan Canadian, I think, poet who's written various different books about heartbreak and body connection and things like that, and it's poetry, but it's really exquisite, and I think it really talks to like that metamorphosis.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, her first book is called like the it's called The Sun and Her Flowers, but each chapter is a it's about a breakup, and each chapter is called like wilting, rising, growing, blooming, or something like that.
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's a really beautiful way to kind of journey through the archetypal um dance of heartbreak.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Just trying to think all my books are in the other room.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm obsessed with Nick Cave.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes, and I just listened to his book with Sean O'Hagan called Faith, Hope, and Carnage.
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I could do a whole podcast about Nick Cave, but for anybody that doesn't know Nick Cave, he's a musician, rock star, and also has a newsletter called The Red Hand Files, which I recommend subscribing to.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_02: And he is basically like a spiritual teacher in and of his own right, I think.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_02: And this book, Faith, Hope and Carnage, talks about how he created his album, Ghosting, which he wrote after the death of his son.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_02: His son tragically died.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, when he was 16, he fell off a cliff in Brighton.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_03: And that was I remember reading about that, and I was just like, oh, that is just like you said, it's a tragedy.
• 1:16:34
  SPEAKER_02: It is awful.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_02: And his so the book talks about the writing of this album, the creation of this album.
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're a complete nerd like me, like I went back and listened to the whole album from start to finish, and I do all the time because I'm obsessed with it, but kind of like the Hosier album, like just really touches me.
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like that album is it's a it's a narrative with the soul of his child, it's just so exquisite.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's I've got even goosebumps thinking about it.
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's so ethereal and just transcendent and it's like otherworldly.
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_02: But that book talks a lot about um the kind of creative process of of making that album and some of the other ways in which he communes and communed with the s the soul of his child, and so it's not an explicitly like this is theory of soul, but I think it's kind of more important in some ways because it's like a a demonstration of how something that was the worst thing in the world to someone has been infused through art and then talked about in a way that it's like meaning making of these experiences, and so that's kind of the in recent times that's the most obvious expression of creating from the gaping wound that I've ever seen, and that is soul to me.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:17:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um then there's there's so many others I could recommend, but I guess one that comes to mind is not about soul explicitly, but there's a book by Kimberly Ann Johnson, who's a somatic teacher, pelvic care.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_02: Called Um Taming the Wild or Something Wild.
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that that if you're if you're a woman and you're interested in, or if you're a female body, you're interested in sexuality and trauma healing, that's the the number one book I would recommend.
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_02: And and I feel like there's strong threads of soul reclamation through that in reclaiming connection to Eros and the body connection.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_02: I could go on and on and on.
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, what about your substack?
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yes, so my substack is called Witch Child.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that is a confessional place where I write confessionally and do life writing.
• 1:18:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I really am just trying to tease apart what soul means to me and what all these topics and themes are.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_02: And some of it's very personal, some of it's very transpersonal, but I'm really putting a lot more time and energy into that um Substack.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think I'm like number 40, like faith and spirituality substack.
• 1:19:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's incredible, which is and I looked at the number one and it's got like six million followers or something, which is crazy.
• 1:19:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I really want to grow that because I've been I've been writing there for s nearly three years, and it's just a natural expression of of how I kind of tease apart all these topics.
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I really, yeah, I really love writing.
• 1:19:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, if anybody wants to come and be part of that sub stack, please do.
• 1:19:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:19:42
  SPEAKER_03: Lydia, it's been such a pleasure talking to you again.
• 1:19:45
  SPEAKER_03: I love the conversations that we have, they're just so deep and grounding, and they make me more self-aware of my perhaps unconscious bias towards certain topics and certain things, and also my own self-awareness with my own psyche.
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I find talking to you is very healing and yeah, very validating.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you so much for coming back on podcast.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I hope to yeah, have you back on again.
• 1:20:13
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's a pleasure, it really is.
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I really love talking about all these topics, it's why I do what I do.
• 1:20:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_02: I could just go on and on and on, or everyone's senseless, but yeah, maybe we can look at my bookshelf in a minute.
• 1:20:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'll be lovely.
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'll take a picture of it for the gram, as they say.
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you so much.
• 1:20:34
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:20:41
  SPEAKER_03: I hope you all enjoyed listening to this episode with Olivia.
• 1:20:44
  SPEAKER_03: I have linked all of her book recommendations and the podcast recommendations in the show notes.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_03: And Olivia has kindly offered a 50% discount to her Substack Witch Child, which I've also linked for you in the show notes.
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_03: So go and check that out if you wish.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_03: And please go and have a look at Olivia's website and her Instagram and see the great work that she's doing.
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_03: Let's move on to our witch weekly events, where I let you know what witchy or spiritual events are happening in and around South Devon and Cornwall.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_03: Starting with local covens that are seeking new members, so if you're a solitary witch looking to join a coven, this might be for you.
• 1:21:25
  SPEAKER_03: Roz and Booker, one of Cornwall's longest established covens, hold meetings in North Cornwall and the Devon-Cornwall border.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_03: Applicants are welcome to introduce themselves via email and can visit their website for more information.
• 1:21:41
  SPEAKER_03: The Cunning Grove is a witch and a cult shop based in Plymouth.
• 1:21:45
  SPEAKER_03: They currently hold the Coven of the Sacred Grove.
• 1:21:49
  SPEAKER_03: They are a diverse group of witches from different paths that come together to learn and support each other.
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_03: Within their coven, they break the year down into four seasons.
• 1:22:00
  SPEAKER_03: The physical coven meets on a Tuesday and Thursday nights fortnightly.
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_03: They also have an online coven with spaces available.
• 1:22:09
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone is in a group together, and each week they drop different techniques and teachings from PDFs, slides, and videos.
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_03: Joining the covens comes with a range of benefits.
• 1:22:21
  SPEAKER_03: You can get money off the shop and services, and you can also make use of the Coven Library, which is for local members only.
• 1:22:29
  SPEAKER_03: To join the physical coven, it's£30 per person.
• 1:22:33
  SPEAKER_03: And if you want to join the online coven, that's£15.
• 1:22:37
  SPEAKER_03: If you would like to get in touch, you can message them through their Instagram page or Facebook page.
• 1:22:44
  SPEAKER_03: I've also added their email address in the show notes.
• 1:22:48
  SPEAKER_03: Saren from Serendipity Healing holds three women's circles.
• 1:22:53
  SPEAKER_03: These are Tuesday in Abbot Scurswell, Wednesday in Torquay, and Thursday in Totnet, and they are all from 7 pm until 9 pm.
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_03: Participants can choose the date and venue that suits them, and she covers the same information in each one.
• 1:23:10
  SPEAKER_03: They happen every three weeks so you can celebrate the Sabbath and connect to nature's cycles.
• 1:23:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then you will have a session between each Sabbath to look inward.
• 1:23:20
  SPEAKER_03: She teaches a variety of modalities.
• 1:23:23
  SPEAKER_03: These include somatic movement, guided meditations, tarot and oracle cards, witch runes, exploring crystals, herbs, journaling, creative expression through arts and crafts, Reiki, Sekhem energy, drumming and sound, goddess work with the archetypes, meaningful ritual and ceremonies, and lots more.
• 1:23:46
  SPEAKER_03: Local witchy and spiritual events.
• 1:23:49
  SPEAKER_03: Continuing with the Cunning Grove, on Wednesdays they hold a witch and stitch, which is a free weekly crochet, knitting and witchcraft session.
• 1:24:00
  SPEAKER_03: And on Saturday mornings, they hold a free witch and brew session, which is a social with tea, talk, and it has a teaching focus.
• 1:24:09
  SPEAKER_03: And you can find out more information via their website, which is linked in the show notes.
• 1:24:14
  SPEAKER_03: Looking forward to this week and weekend.
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_03: Friday, the 3rd of July, Whitemoor Village Hall is holding a Mystic Drumming Circle by Mystic Willow Events, and this is being held from 7 pm until 9 pm.
• 1:24:32
  SPEAKER_03: Also on Friday, Tavistock is holding a ghost walk.
• 1:24:36
  SPEAKER_03: The meeting place is Bedford Square, and this is held from 8.15 pm until 11.15 pm.
• 1:24:44
  SPEAKER_03: On Saturday, the 4th of July, Millbrook Village Hall in Tor Point is having an evening of clairvoyance, and this is from 7 pm in Penwith.
• 1:24:53
  SPEAKER_03: A return to self-yoga and meditation afternoon is being held from 1 pm until 5 pm.
• 1:24:59
  SPEAKER_03: And on Sunday, the 5th of July, a sound bath is being held in the Port Lebanon Public Hall, and this is from 7pm until 9 pm.
• 1:25:08
  SPEAKER_03: And the links for tickets for all of these events mentioned over this weekend, you can find them in the show notes.
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_03: If you have an upcoming witchy or spiritual event and you would like me to do a shout out for your event on the show, then please contact me.
• 1:25:24
  SPEAKER_03: My details are in the show notes, and you can find me at the Cornish Witch Podcast on Instagram and Facebook.
• 1:25:34
  SPEAKER_03: That is everything I have for you for this episode.
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for listening to the Cornish Witch Podcast.
• 1:25:43
  SPEAKER_03: This podcast is an independent personal project created outside of my professional life.
• 1:25:50
  SPEAKER_03: It exists as a space for conversation with witches, spiritual practitioners, and those walking their own paths, sharing lived practice, ritual, experience, and folklore often rooted here in Cornwall and the land itself.
• 1:26:07
  SPEAKER_03: If you value these conversations and would like to support the continuation of the podcast, there is a voluntary link in the show notes.
• 1:26:16
  SPEAKER_03: Listening will always remain free and there is no expectation to contribute.
• 1:26:21
  SPEAKER_03: Whether you support here, listen quietly, or carry these stories onward by sharing them with others, thank you.
• 1:26:28
  SPEAKER_03: Your presence honors the craft and keeps these tellings alive.
• 1:26:33
  SPEAKER_03: May these stories find you when they are meant to.
• 1:26:37
  SPEAKER_03: And until next time, may the path rise to meet you.