Latest / The Growth Project / Episode 342: Grit, Growth, and the Game with Coach Will Muschamp

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Episode 342: Grit, Growth, and the Game with Coach Will Muschamp · The Growth Project

• 0:00
  You.
• 0:03
  Welcome to The Growth Project, a podcast brought to you by AMP. Excited to be here today.
• 0:10
  To welcome coach Will Muschamp. Will, I remember the first time we connected, back in 21, I guess it was. And and man, it's been great to to build a relationship with you over the years and just super thankful for you joining us today.
• 0:26
  Well, drew, I appreciate it. I appreciate you having me on. You did a phenomenal job for us at Georgia, as far as the sports psychiatrist side of things and helping our guys mentally. There's no question you've made a huge difference for Coach Smart in Georgia. Well, that's kind of you I appreciate it. And yeah, excited to get in here today and talk about about your journey.
• 0:48
  I'll set the stage in this way. It's cool to be having this conversation because I remember, you know, growing up in the southeast. Of course, anybody who's familiar with SEC football knows Will Muschamp and and so, you know, I knew and and I remember seeing you on the sidelines of some some pretty notable places over the years. LSU right, Florida, South Carolina a number of places.
• 1:10
  Texas. Although they weren't in the SEC then. So it's been really neat to to build a relationship with you and like, know you different from maybe the guy I just saw on TV. So, so that's been fun. But, so let's start here. Take let's hit the rewind button. I want to go back and just talk a little bit about kind of beginnings for you.
• 1:30
  Like what was what was family life like what was important in your family. Like just help us to get to know kind of some of those early years. Well, I was born in Rome, Georgia. My father was a football coach, an educator, played football, the University of North Carolina in the 50s. And both brothers played in college. My brother, my middle brother, Pat, played at West Point.
• 1:49
  And my oldest brother, Mike, played at Duke University. So we were pretty football oriented family. So on Saturday afternoons when my dad got done grading tape, we watched SEC football at our house and or we were in the backyard playing football. So it give you an idea? My early years, it was all centered around athletics and centered around football.
• 2:11
  We moved to Gainesville, Florida when I was going into kindergarten, and so I really grew up a Gator. I grew up there in Gainesville, Florida for ten years. And then we moved back to Rome, where I finished high school. In Rome, Georgia. My family and my two great parents. Totally, supportive. My dad passed away. I guess it was 11 years ago, this past May.
• 2:33
  My mom is turning 90 in October, as I've told. Talk to you earlier. We're going to have a birthday celebration for her next week. So, very close knit family. Awesome. So, a gator? I don't think I knew that. Yeah. Big gators growing up. And then even when y'all moved back to Rome, did you continue to be kind of a loyal Gator fan?
• 2:52
  Oh, I was a big Gator fan. Big gator. Frank, Charlie pal, and, Galen Hall were the head coaches in that 80s run there. And then obviously, Coach Fire came in the 90s and I ended up walking on at Georgia. I broke my leg, which is another story, but, unfortunately, Coach Bird beat us every year. I was in Georgia.
• 3:11
  All right. So, the the assumption growing. You know, when I hear people say that, hey, my parents are educators, you know, this was like, here's what family life was like. What does that mean? That, you know, you had to prioritize school. And we made a big deal about about academics. Is that what it was like growing up?
• 3:28
  Yeah, that was at the forefront. My mom random choose the office manager of the law firm. She went to Duke University, and, so that was that was important. But probably I would say the forefront was athletics. So that's where that's where we all went back to. And so as long as I did what I was supposed to do academically, for the most part, my, my parents would handle it.
• 3:52
  Okay. Now, when did you begin to get a vision for coaching for your in your own life? Probably just growing up, not knowing who I the different. Yeah. I broke my leg in high school. I finish I was playing left fields, coming in on a on a slip up called the shorts. Got stop off. He went down.
• 4:12
  He was trying to stay up, and I compound fractured my tibia. Fabian, caught the ball, though, and then I got the out. Right. But that's the first really adverse situation I'd ever had in my life. Real first set of adversity. And you know, I thought football was you know, recruiting was so different than you'd think. Started getting recruited to the end of your junior year.
• 4:35
  Really starting in your senior years when you started to take visits and football got taken away from me. That was the first time I it was a little bit of a shock. It was like, wow. And I was getting recruited. But it wasn't by some of the teams that I wanted to go play for. And that's why I ended up walking on at Georgia.
• 4:50
  Okay, so you walked on it. Georgia went on to have a tremendous career there. And, you know, went on the other side of football. Where to where did the coaching journey begin? When you're playing, days were over. Talk about that. Well, I, I realized we went to a training camp, a buddy of mine with Marshall, we went to a training camp for the Atlanta Falcons.
• 5:12
  This is back when prime time was playing corner ten. Oh yeah. Playing there. Jerry Glanville was the head coach and I, I watched practice and I was smart enough to know that there's no way I was playing on that level. So I knew I needed to enjoy my senior year, which is 1994. But battling through all that, I got elected my team captain my senior year.
• 5:33
  I'm going into it knowing I better enjoy this year because football's over for me after this. And I didn't want to live without football and without competition and without the camaraderie of being a part of the team. And that's where I knew I wanted to coach. Steve Dennis was our secondary coach, head coach for Coach Dodd, Auburn for for a bunch of years, had come over to Georgia and knew the defensive coordinator, Wayne Hall and Auburn, and he actually gave my name, Dwayne Hall, who at the time, Terry Bowden, was the head football coach.
• 6:02
  And, it worked out. I went over there and interviewed and I got hired as a GA at Auburn in 1995. Wow. And so I know their passion for the game was part of of why you wanted to be in it, but what else would you add? The list will in terms of like why? Why coaching? Why did you want to get into the profession making a difference in someone's life?
• 6:21
  You know, that was something my dad, as an educator had always taught me about. I always asked, I'll never forget he had a pay stub that came in one day and I thought if we he worked at Darlington, where I went to school and I didn't read the name, I just saw Muschamp and I thought it was something for me.
• 6:37
  And I opened the pay stub and I was like, dad, I'm sorry. I said, this is for you. I said, this is how much they pay for you for a week. He's like, no, son, this is my monthly pay. And I was like, you got to be kidding me. And that's when he said, he goes, something is, you better figure out something in your life.
• 6:52
  You love doing this. Every time I put my feet on the floor, I'm excited about coming to work. I'm excited about making a difference in someone's life. And he's it's not about how much money you got in the bank. It's about, you know, where your heart is, where your soul is, and and the difference you're making in someone's life.
• 7:08
  He's not. That's for me. That's not for other people. And you've got to make that decision for you. And I kind of related to him extremely well, growing up and understanding that, you know, that's probably the road I needed to head down. And so you start down that road as a GA, which is a pretty normal pattern for people get into the coaching profession.
• 7:29
  And at that time, what was the vision in terms of like where you hope to see this go. I've never been a in five years. I want this in ten years I want this. I've always been in Kevin. Doctor Kevin Elko used to always tell me be where your feet are. And I guess I was that before I even knew what that phrase meant.
• 7:50
  So that would be what your feet are, guy. You know, let's do a really good job with the job I have. And I think that'll create more opportunities for me down the line. I hear young coaches. I talked to a guy last week that said, wow, I really feel like if I take this job that I can, I said, whoa, there's so many variables out there you have no control over, and you're sitting there talking about taking a job because maybe the next job I do a great job of the job you have and that'll create opportunities for you.
• 8:19
  Did I want to be a coordinator? Yes. Did I want to be a head coach? Eventually, yes. But I was willing to take a job knowing this could be my last job. I could stay with my life, and that was always my. I'm going to be content with the job that I take. And that's how I kind of approached, you know, the goals of where you wanted to be.
• 8:39
  Sure, I wanted to be a coordinator, I want to be a head coach, but I also wanted to be happy where I was. And knowing that I took the job for the right reasons. Yeah. And that mentality you're talking about, if we're honest, is kind of rare these days. Right. It's kind of rare of just to be like hey I'm going to be as great as I can be with what's right in front of me.
• 8:58
  Hey, we've talked about this a bunch within the program at Georgia, right? There's that great quote by Henry David Thoreau. Success comes to those who are too busy to be looking for it. And in it's just that right of like, I'm going to be great with the opportunities I have and trust that if I do that with consistency, good things will happen.
• 9:16
  And that's just not how a lot of people think. These days. Well, I'm in every job I got, I didn't look into, they called me. Yeah. And that I'll tell you. And unfortunately I've moved a lot in two times. I had to move the rest of them were all because I made the decision to move. And I really look back at that and, and tell young coaches that and, you know, do a great job with the job you have that'll create opportunities, not looking for another job or trying to network into another situation.
• 9:43
  Because really as a head coach, you don't want that. You want guys that want to be in the job they are. And obviously do. We all have aspirations to continue to improve? Absolutely. And that's great. You want coaches like that but not always looking for the next opportunity. Yeah. Well I think it's really cool to hear you talking about that story.
• 10:01
  And then, you know, meanwhile I look over your right shoulder in your left shoulder and I see some pretty impressive helmets. Yeah, I think that I think that's gorgeous in the middle. Yeah. That mindset of I'm going to do a great job of what I have, I think has worked out pretty well for you over the years. So there are a lot to be learned in that lesson.
• 10:20
  Okay. So let's talk about this. You know, I've always defined I mean, the coaches do so many things, but but I've always felt like one of the fundamental jobs of a coach is to help a person move from point A to point B, right? Development. Can you talk a little bit about I'm sure this is kind of evolved over the years, but when it comes to helping a person do just that, like go from point A to point B, what are some of your kind of like foundational philosophies and principles of how you do that with people, players?
• 10:54
  You need to evaluate the person. What can they do? What do they do well, and what do we need to work on to maybe get them in a better situation and of the right meaning? This if a guy can't cover man to man very well, I think you're you're making a huge mistake as a coach if trying to call a bunch of man coverage.
• 11:13
  So let's put guys in situations, they can be successful. Number one that builds confidence in a player because they're doing things they feel comfortable doing. And then you try to address the things they don't do as well on the side to make sure they understand. And I think honest communication is the best thing. All right. These are some things we've got to address and we've got a handle.
• 11:32
  But I think you continually try and put a player in a situation where he can be successful at the thing he does well, which builds confidence. And anytime you have a confident player, you got a chance for the guy to have some confidence about what he's trying to do, especially when you're walking out in front of 100,000 people.
• 11:48
  Millions of people watching the guy better have a little bit of confidence in what he's doing. I can't stand when I hear coaches say, well, this is who we are. This is our scheme. Well, you better adjust your scheme to what your players can do. And if you don't adjust your scheme, then you will have a hard time, as far as your players are concerned.
• 12:06
  And, you know, when we went to the Miami Dolphins, we were a middle field man coverage team at LSU with Coach Saban. And we went to the Miami Dolphins. We struggled covering middle field man coverage in the NFL against some of the guys we were going against. We had a rookie corner. We had an older crop. I mean there were some things we had to do.
• 12:23
  We had to make a lot of adjustments schematically as coaches to be successful on that level. And as the year wore on, we ended up winning six of our last games because of the adjustments we made defensively.
• 12:35
  All right, let's go. I want to come back to your timeline here in a second. But let's listen. You just gave me an example I want to talk about.
• 12:41
  So when you made that jump from LSU to the Dolphins, what are the biggest differences in the NFL versus what it was like in college? You know, your coaching standpoint,
• 12:53
  my perception coming in players make more money than the coaches. They're going to be very difficult to coach. That was there was nothing further from the truth is the players believed you could help them become a better player, which is going to extend their career and it's going to help them make more money because it's a business, let's call it like it is.
• 13:12
  If you're able to do that they'll run through a wall for you. And it was awesome. Now I don't know that I had the true pro experience because of Jason Taylor Zach Thomas I mean Kevin Carter Sam Madison. We had some true professionals Ronnie Holiday, Danny Sprague and I mean, we had true professionals. They were there veterans.
• 13:32
  They came to work every day. They came with their notebook pad every day, taking notes, asking questions because they were true professionals. And, as far as differences, the difference is when you went home in the NFL, you didn't have people calling you all night trying to recruit and trying to do all that stuff. That was a huge difference because I went home at night.
• 13:53
  I didn't know what to do. My phone was ringing. I was like, going nuts. I thought I was doing something wrong, but eventually you learn to work through that. But, there really wasn't a lot of difference. But, you know, again, we had a special, special group as far as the right people. They were, Okay, so let's go back to I'm gonna go back on your timeline of your your early in the profession.
• 14:15
  You're learning a ton. How would you describe how you went about your business as a coach early in your career? Like, like talk like, what are some words that would describe kind of who you were at that stage of your journey? Ready, fire. Aim. And that's not always the the sequence you want it to work. I've learned and if I, if I could go back as a young coach and say, man, what what have you really taken?
• 14:42
  Is, is the coach player relationships a two way street? There's got to be some give and take now. They're the non-negotiables effort, discipline. I mean there are some non-negotiables in there. But but but I think there's a lot of two way street of understanding the student understanding coaching is teaching teachers the ability to inspire learning. And I've always believed in that.
• 15:07
  And and so it's your job to identify the student that your your job to identify the player. And what are the strengths, what are the weaknesses. How are we going to communicate. Because they're not all the same. They're all different, thank goodness. And it's you. You've got to find the key to the young man and what we can do to create the best version of him every single day.
• 15:26
  And that's something earlier in my career, I don't know that that I was always there with that. Is that a common trend will and work for people earlier in their coaching journey? Do you feel like to maybe be to have less of an understanding of that? I think more coaches younger coaches, try to be their buddy instead of being their mentor and coach.
• 15:49
  And that's the way I've always looked at, and I probably was totally on the other end of that. That spectrum, a little bit of the, the litmus test there of, of going nuts on a guy. So, I, I've, as I've tried to explain to people, I think I've matured in my time. But I do think that there's there's got to be it's a two way street.
• 16:09
  You got to give the player a chance to be in self. And I go back to our time in Georgia of some of the players we had. When you start talking about Malachi Starks, Taki Smith, Chris Smith, Javon Bullard, Dan Jackson, Cameron Lassiter, I mean, that was like Coach and pro ball because of the maturity level of the player.
• 16:30
  And there was so much two way interaction in our meetings. I would listen to those guys. I'd go to Coach Smart. Sometimes I coach there, they feel comfortable playing it this way. He's like, and but we had a trust with our guys is, you know, those guys I just mentioned and you're sitting there nodding your head, you're going, yeah, I know what you're talking about.
• 16:46
  I mean, it was just a different group, and that's why it was probably as much fun as I've ever had coached in my life because of the people in the room. Yeah, actually, when you were just making that list with each name, I felt a little more pain in my heart about the fact they're gone and I know that I like where I was.
• 17:02
  You still had some of those guys in the building. All those guys, actually. What a list. Okay, so so that so early career Will Muschamp was a little bit less, I guess, kind of thoughtful about the two way street, the give and take. And that's one aspect of you as you progressed through your career that evolved and changed a little bit.
• 17:24
  It sounds like, no, there's no question. And then also I'm curious about this. So, your first, first time as a head coach. Oh, wait. Yeah. So so let's go back and think about that a little bit. Well, I always like to ask coaches, what would you say you were least prepared for in your earliest days? Is it your first time as a head coach?
• 17:47
  I wish I had slowed down a little bit. And, you know, it's it's kind of like being a young player. Everything is moving so fast. Everything's happening so fast. It's not the ball, it's not the scheme, it's not the recruiting, the evaluation. It's all the other things that that come up. I never forget bill Parcells was calling to recommend a coach when I first went to University of Florida, and he said, well, how are you doing as a coach?
• 18:14
  Aren't you doing okay? And he said, well, have you ever been to New York City? And I said, yes, sir. He said, you ever seen those big vacuums that come out of those apartment buildings that when they're clearing an apartment building out and they're throwing all the trash that's getting sucked in this apartment in this vacuum, and it goes down to a dumpster down the bottom of the street.
• 18:34
  And I said, yes, sir, I've seen that before. He goes, that's your desk now, you know that, right? And if there's no better way to look at it from the standpoint of the hundred different directions, you're getting pulled from a multifaceted which even more so now with the portal, the you know, I mean there's a lot more now than there was when I was a head coach.
• 18:55
  And it's just you get pulled different directions. I'll tell another great story. Fran Brown, who we all love, the head coach, said, yeah, Coach Ma came in one day in the staff meeting and was not in a good mood. I mean, this just a call like it is, all right? And he made me right through. I mean, he went after everybody in the meeting.
• 19:13
  He was getting skins on the wall that morning. Okay. And he walked out of the meeting. And Fran are walking out of the staff meeting Frank on his. And he's like, champions, like me. On what was that all about? I said, friend, that probably had nothing to do with us. What do you mean? And I go, you don't understand.
• 19:29
  He may have gotten 14 phone calls this morning from 14 people. He didn't really want to hear from, and he's dealing with all kinds of things that he doesn't really want to deal with. He wants to coach football. And I'll never forget about two months into Fran's tenure at Syracuse, he called me. You chant. You remember that day that I asked you about?
• 19:49
  What was that all about? You guys tell Coach Smart I understand exactly why. Is there a lot that you don't? You know, I said people think they know. They have no idea. No. And it's just there's so many different things and facets and answers and and on and on and on. But that would be the, the, just the different things that pop up or tough.
• 20:11
  And what year was that at Florida? Was your first year? 2011. So that was 2011? Yes, a 14 years ago. And, you know, in 2011, college football, especially the SEC was was plenty complex. There was 1,000,001 thing and you're but yet today, as you're saying, you know, given the nil and the portal landscape just to name a couple, it's, it's entirely different, you know, it's it's night and day.
• 20:38
  I mean, it's not even is how guys call offenses or call defense is a head coach now, I have a hard time seeing this. Just the amount of time that you have to be involved. Or at least you just. You've delegated it to somebody else because somebody has got to deal with it. You know, the retaining the retention of your roster, the nil I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot that goes into it.
• 21:02
  Okay. So as we're going back and thinking about your, your time early on as a head coach, the pace of it was tremendous. It was just the sheer volume of what you had to keep up with. What did you enjoy about it most though. Like what was what was the the best parts of it? The challenge, the opportunity, the all eyes on you making the final decision?
• 21:24
  I enjoyed that responsibility, I enjoyed it, and, you know, which you know, which things that turned out differently in both situations. But at the end of the day, embracing that opportunity to be in that role, I enjoyed that. When you think about some of your, like your best memories and I know there's probably a ton of these, but let's start with like as a head coach, what are, what are some of your best memories that you can recall during your time as a head coach?
• 21:55
  Wow. I mean, you know, second year at Florida, we unfortunately turned the ball over six times in Jacksonville, but we have an opportunity. It's USC beats Notre Dame at the end. We're going to play Alabama for the national championship. You know and that that run there was was was a lot of fun to be a part of.
• 22:13
  That year was a lot of fun to be a part of to to in that run, to be in that conversation there at the end and knowing that we were we were we were close to getting that opportunity. You know, I think in South Carolina, you know, the year before we had gotten there where they we lost to Citadel and we came in and no one gave us a chance to go to a bowl game our first year.
• 22:33
  And we ended up being bowl eligible with a big win over a ranked Tennessee team at home. You know, those those be some things that I look back on. But again, I, I, I also look at the relationships of people that I still to this day living on Lake Murray, players from South Carolina that come by the lake house.
• 22:51
  The calls that I get, I got a text from Chris Radio, a running back at Florida. I got one from him today, a motivational text from him about life and and just just those sort of things really touch you. You know, you made a difference in someone's life. Yeah. All right, let's let's dig into that a little bit, because I've seen you do this at such a high level.
• 23:08
  And that's the relationship building process. So when I think about, you know, the work that that we've been a part of together at Georgia over the last several years, and I think about like, like what some of the coolest things for me would be just from afar, like watching you do your thing with players. And it's and it's so easy to see.
• 23:28
  And what I think you do at such a high level is when I see a player interact with you, there's there's two big things I always look for one, does this player truly believe in and trust this person's expertise, which is a resounding yes for you? I mean, your your knowledge of the game is unparalleled. And then secondly, does this player truly know that this coach, believes in him and cares about him?
• 23:53
  And, and so let's let's focus on that part for a second. Like, can you share some of your thoughts around the relationship building process and, and how you think about that and what's really driven your success in that area over the years with your players? You know, drew, I think dependability is the best ability. So dependability from a day to day standpoint of a player understanding and having a comfort level of what he's going to get again there, the non-negotiables, the effort and some of those things that we're going to be we're going to be hard on okay.
• 24:25
  But but the dependability is the best ability which promotes accountability with a player because they want to be accountable to a dependable person. And if they know what they're going to get every single day, that's what develops trust, that's what develops. You got to have some trust in you. It takes time. It doesn't happen overnight and it's summer.
• 24:43
  A lot harder to crack than the others. I think building a relationship with the family is really important. So. So who is the champion in this young man's family? Who is the first one? He has adversity. Who is he going to call? Well, I'm going to I'm going to make a relationship with that person. So I know the first person he's calling because the first person he calls is probably calling me next.
• 25:06
  Right. So so I'm going to develop the relationship with the young man, the relationship with the champion of whoever's in the family, so to help those situations. But I just think when you're a dependable person and a young man knows what he's going to get every single day, that that's how you do, you develop trust. And I know what they're going to get and may not be what they want to hear, but they know what you're going to get and it's not going to be an up and down deal.
• 25:31
  It's not going to be why I said this. You said no clear communication and I think what ruins most business organizations, most football teams, most marriages is either a lack of communication or miscommunication. And I think something that I'm about to learn from Mack Brown, I'll sit down with the player talking may be having a very difficult conversation and at the end the conversation saying, all right, what what did you hear what I said?
• 25:56
  Because a lot of times what you say is not what they heard. Yeah. I want you to tell me what you heard and be able to have them communicate and talk and not be on a phone all day long and not text them something. No. Oh, I want I combination. I want to be a normal American citizen. And let's have a conversation and get eyeball to eyeball.
• 26:16
  And let's talk about the situation. And that to me is communicating with people. That to me is is being dependable can creates consistency, creates accountability, and it creates trust in a relationship. And that example you just gave that question is perfect. What did you hear me say. Because if you say to the person, do you understand me or does that make sense?
• 26:42
  Well, they're going to say yes. They don't want to disappoint you. You know, you're it's like trying to get out of your office. Yeah. Heck yeah. You know, they don't want to disappoint you. They don't want to frustrate. They just want to be done. And so they're going to absolutely say yes. And meanwhile they're going to go out there and mess it up again because they don't understand what you were saying.
• 26:58
  Also, go back to what we talked about earlier. When you create a two way relationship with a player, when they know there's going to be a little give and take, there are a lot more willing to to open up and say something. Whereas earlier the rear, they probably looked right at me and said, yes sir, yes sir. Quit saying yes sir.
• 27:15
  I need some input from you and I that that to me is is something where you you mature a little bit and you're able to carry on a better conversation with the young person. Yep. And then I want to know about this too, because when I think about like the skill of coaching and I've seen you do this at such a high level, I've seen you do the version of, I'm going to go up to a guy, I'm going to put my arm around him and I'm going to show him some love, because seen that that's the decision as a coach I'm making right now, I'm going to show some love.
• 27:45
  And I've also seen you rip a guy who probably, you know, needed to be ripped at any given time. So say to you decide. Watch which approach to go with at any given time. Like what are some of the factors that go into your decision making of how to approach helping a player? Well, I think it's all calculated and I always would tell guys, if you can't handle my fat ass yelling at you, you can't play in front of a hundred thousand people.
• 28:13
  So a little of that was calculated from the standpoint of, I'm going to make it hard on this guy today. We've got to create some angst. We've got to create a little anxiety in this guy today to make sure he's able to handle it. Because in the secondary, one mistake is normally a touchdown for the other team. It's no different on the offensive line quarterback position.
• 28:33
  So so trying to create some some issue. And then there's also times where you need to recognize a player. And I go back to the champion of the family. Who is this guy talking to. Because I may have gotten a phone call the night before, or it may have been our personnel department. And Jonas Jennings walks down the hall and says, hey, man, a lot of stuff going on at home with this guy.
• 28:53
  Well, that's not the day to create anxiety. That's not the way to create angst. That's the day you put them all wrong. All right. We all right. We good. Everything good. And and I think players, when they see that you recognize you're human and you have a heart and you actually do care about them and want their success, because I always thought the guy's going to be more, much more successful.
• 29:13
  It's not just about athletic ability. It's not just about football intelligence. It's about being happy where he is and understand that he's got a coach that understands his the way he is a little bit. And so I think it's all encompassing. And as far as those thing is making, you know, being calculated and some of the attacks that are being calculated also, we put your arm around the guy and get him.
• 29:34
  Let me pull through something. He might be going through the maybe difficult in his life. Yeah. And then like, let's take that guy who's he's going through something difficult. He plays in the secondary, as you said, very razor thin margins of error back there. You know I think so one once tiny thing goes wrong and and we might just give up a touchdown.
• 29:55
  So we've got a guy who is short on confidence. So how do you coach confidence into a player. How do you get a guy to believe who at one time he believed. But he's having a hard time doing that, like walk us through how you do that repetition of things. He does extremely well. Okay, so putting him in situations, I go back to the evaluation of a player.
• 30:19
  Don't ask him to do some things he's going to struggle with or he's uncertain because at the end of the day, they may have a bravado about themselves as a player. Deep down, they know what they do well and deep down they have their fears of what they don't do well, and they all don't want to make a mistake in front of 100,000 people.
• 30:36
  And that's what creates uncertainty. And that's what creates a guy that lacks confidence as a player. And then you take things on film and you show them doing some of these things extremely well, whether it's in man coverage, whether it's in zone coverage, whether it's playing a half or it's tackling in space, and you create examples that ought to really create a lot of confidence for the players.
• 30:58
  He's watching it and as always, will tell our guys at Georgia, your playing against as good or better than you're ever going to play on Saturday. So you making a play in a Tuesday practice is just as important as making it on Saturday afternoon, because you're doing it against the guy that might be more talented than you'll ever face on Saturday afternoon.
• 31:15
  So that ought to give you great confidence going into a game. I also feel like as the week wears on during the week, I'm one that wants to build the confidence as the weeks going. So we may be more critical Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday. And as we were getting closer to game day, I'm those guys feeling really good about themselves.
• 31:34
  I want them walking out of the Kentucky Derby and they're ready to roll. I mean, those dudes are. Those dudes are stoked. I mean, they're jacked up and ready to go and they're feeling really good about the game plan, about what we're doing and how we're doing it. And so I always think there's a there's a little bit of approach in a game time mode as well.
• 31:51
  But I really think creating situations for a guy to be successful, if he struggles with confidence, but repetition of really good things and then examples of really good things on film where he sees and you're saying this is a really good play, maybe even backing it up with, you know, I'm seeing Earl Thomas play for me at Texas Middle field coverage.
• 32:09
  Well, you just did as good as Earl Thomas. So what you do have confidence. So you create other examples of guys I've coached personally and say I don't understand why you don't have more confidence. Why do I have more confidence than you have in yourself. That's a great question. And yet it's sometimes true. Yes. We sometimes the people around these guys believe in a more and they believe in themselves.
• 32:30
  Right. Yeah. You had and when you were saying about building up the confidence the week goes on I got, I got the memory in my head when we played the Muhammad Ali. The champ is here. The champ is inside from before I think it was before the Texas game Cheering that's how we want him thinking right. Ain't no doubt you walking in the door.
• 32:47
  Here we are. Let's go. All right. Well let's let's talk about the Georgia chapter a little bit because it's been it's been a heck of a ride these last several years and a lot of a lot of good memories made, you know, you you have said to me more than once over the past few years, some comment about how much you, how much fun you've been having, how much you've enjoyed the role that you've been in.
• 33:09
  I know we've had a little adjustment, during your time there, but, like, why have you enjoyed the time at Georgia and this chapter so much? Well, I think when you're aligned with, the person you work for. Yeah, I think that there's a very strong, you know, he and I were brought up in the same tree. Coach Montana.
• 33:29
  So you're aligned of how you want to recruit the player. You're aligned on your evaluation of a player. You're relying on defensive scheme on how you want to play something. I think when you're aligned like that, how you want to practice, I mean those things real, how you going to do the offseason program, how we're going to do walkthroughs.
• 33:45
  I mean, when you're aligned with somebody, mentally that helps a lot. That helps a ton. Then when you're aligned with the staff, you work with, whether it's Dan Lanning, Glenn Shuman, Te Romney, whoever you're running the trace got Chidera all those guys. I mean it was a phenomenal staff. Walking in the building every day is what my father used to tell me.
• 34:04
  Put your feet on the floor and get excited about work. You know I don't have to. I get to go to work. And that was my mentality every single day. Then you couple that with the young men that we got to work with that I mentioned earlier. I mean Drew's you know, it's a special group of young men.
• 34:18
  I mean, they're they're not I mean, those guys came to me. I want to say that for the 22 season because there's a couple new starters. JB was starting at safety. Talk use star. And they they're coming to me going. Coach, we need to meet at 6 a.m. in the morning so we can get through more of tape.
• 34:37
  And I'm sitting there thinking, what in there? I mean, we need. They came to me. They weren't every length. They showed up every morning at six, we would go through more tape than we would ever get through in the afternoon just because we had, you know, so the time was such a, so essential that's trying to get through it.
• 34:53
  So we meet at six in the morning and with that came from them. They didn't come from me. I was that was voluntary. I was like, yeah, absolutely. I'll be there at 530. I said, let's get it going. So but that was the group and that made it so much fun to have interaction with those guys. Highly competitive.
• 35:09
  You're not worried about them motivating to hope they're going to practice. Are they going to practice hard every single day. And but and I'm just mentioned the secondary I can't start mentioned in front seven guys because there's a bunch of those guys too. But it was a special, special group. And I credit Coach Smart and the staff for recruiting those guys that didn't recruit a lot of those guys to come to Georgia.
• 35:29
  The latter part I did, but not not the those guys that were there and, they just they're they were an awesome group to work with. Yeah. Gosh. And, think about I mean, on every level, right. They're great football players. They're great humans. And and so I think you getting the staff included, I mean, everybody we're talking about, so the people make a huge difference, obviously, who you want to be, who you want to be with.
• 35:53
  And then I get it probably didn't hurt that we've had some a good bit of success. That's been kind of fun too, right? Absolutely. Well, you know, as long as in winning. I mean, at the end of the day when you it's a hard job. And if you ain't won, it ain't a lot of fun. So, so.
• 36:06
  And the greatest run in school history, you know, two national championships, two sec title week and a 23 loss against, Bama. That 1st May hurt as much as any loss I've ever had in my life. And we we didn't play very well in the secondary in that game. That one that was tough. But at the end of the day, you are so right because this is not a 9 to 5 job.
• 36:27
  I mean, we're in there at five, 530 in the morning. We're walking out of there during the season on Sunday, Mondays and Tuesdays after midnight, you know, work and trying to get things ready, prepared for the next day, prepared for our players in the morning. And we're walking in at 530, meet with players. I mean, people understand. I mean, you spend more time with them than you do raising your own two sons.
• 36:48
  And thank goodness I have a special wife and Carol Muschamp and I got two great kids and Jackson and Witt, but I've spent more time raising other people's kids, and I have had my own. And I'm not proud to say that. I'm just saying that's that's the coaching profession. And, and we had a special, special group there.
• 37:05
  Yeah, yeah. And that is the that is the demand of the profession that, that people are in. And I think, I mean, that's probably a whole nother, line of conversation about like, where do you see this going? Right? I mean, given the, the way the game and the landscape has changed, is it are these careers going to be ten years shorter than they would be otherwise, or are they going to be?
• 37:27
  I mean, what do you think? I'm I'm not so sure. I'm hoping we get some Congress involved to get some cooler heads, above the decision that's being made right now, decisions that are being made right now. So but it's it's going to be tough to have a lot of longevity in this in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah.
• 37:49
  For good reason okay. So let's think about this too because we've had I'm curious. So your take on this, there's been we've had a ton of success in Georgia at Georgia over the last two years. Grateful for that. The only way we measure success is not in trophies, obviously. What does that word mean to you? How do you define the word success?
• 38:09
  Well, as a competitor, I would say the first thing that I define success is winning. And I just just that's just me as a competitor. I don't I don't go play golf just to be hang out with the guys. I go to play golf to try and win. Now, I'm not very good golfer, right now, but I'm getting better.
• 38:28
  I'm trying to lower my handicap. But but, but you compete to win the game so that that's number one. And then number two, I think making a difference in a in a young man's life is, is very, very important to me to know that a young man came in as an 18 year old freshman and to see him walking off campus at 20, 20, 21, 22, 23 years old, whatever it is, I made a difference in this young man's life, whether it was as a man or it was as a football player, or I made a difference for his life because of it.
• 39:03
  I helped him develop to the type player he wanted to be. And, and, financially, he's made a huge difference in his life and his family's life. I mean, just just to know that you made a difference, whether they're a football player or their attorney or an educator, doesn't matter to know you made a difference in their lives.
• 39:21
  And I mean, that's that that's really important to me after winning.
• 39:26
  Yeah. And I think you've got it. Both those matter, of course. I mean, nobody goes into the profession, not wanting to, to win games and championships. And yet we can't do it every year. Right. We're not going to be able to do it every year.
• 39:39
  So we got it. We got to broaden our definition enough to think about how do we really how do we how do we define success in ways that gives us a chance to to create impact, which is what I hear you saying there. And I think at the end of the day, and I think coach Mark says this all the time, is didn't did we create the best version of ourselves as a team.
• 40:00
  He said that all the time at Georgia we, I mean last year we create our best version of the 2024 team under the circumstances maybe so that's debatable. But in his eyes we did our best coaching job and I would disagree with him. As far as our coaching staff was concerned. And I've heard him say that several times, so I, I wouldn't I think that's another factor that, hey, do we do the best job we could do with what?
• 40:25
  With where we were, what our situation has always been, the ability. Because sometimes your ability, you had some injuries, you had some. There's things that that happened that other people may not count, but you as a yeah, you've got to be realistic to look into and say, you know this, we overcame some very difficult circumstances in some situations that we were in, and I thought we did a really good job with what we did.
• 40:47
  Yeah. What are you at this stage of your journey as a coach to and like, so there's kind of this parallel path of, of you been in the profession for a long time. The game, the landscape has changed dramatically. Can you talk a little bit about, like what you believe philosophically has become the blueprint needed to win at the highest level?
• 41:10
  I mean, we've obviously done, you know, we've done some of this in Georgia the last five years. We've put together a pretty good plan. But like, what are the puzzle pieces that you think you've got to get right in, in this sport to really win at the highest level? Well, evaluation is the key in the whether it's player acquisition, accusation of high school players or portal players, however you want to look at it.
• 41:32
  And then whether or not you get the their their pay has got to equal their play because they all talk. So at the end of the day, what's happening in some situations their pay doesn't equal their play. Now you got a problem in your locker room. So getting that right is going to be critical moving forward. As far as because they all talk and they all know how much each other make.
• 41:51
  And that's that's where you create some issues with young people. Man why are we paying this guy? We got the dumbest coaching staff in America. We're paying this guy this much money. He can't play dead in the Western. So I think the the the evaluation of players, acquisition of players, being able to get the right guys to get the right kind of people because you can get a wrong guy in the locker room and create a lot of issues for yourself.
• 42:15
  I think that's critical. Obviously, you know, you better have a quarterback that's a number one. You better have a line of scrimmage. That's number two. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, people that are spending money on on line of scrimmage, players are having more success and making sure that they invest in that. And they're able to to develop their team further with that.
• 42:36
  And then obviously you got to have the skill people involved. But I think the evaluation part is, number one, you know, evaluating and taking not just the best player, but taking the right kind of guy that's going to sit in your locker room. Because, you know, this year at Georgia, we only have three guys on defense going in their fourth year, three.
• 42:53
  So when we talk in terms of the Callison, the development part, not as much. They're not as much as when I first when they're when you and I first came in in 2021, we probably had and the teams of guys going in their fourth or fifth year at Georgia. So yeah. So that that part of the portal has changed, a place like Georgia a little bit because the depth pieces aren't there of the development anymore.
• 43:16
  So you've got to do a great job of evaluate and part of bringing guys in. Yeah. And what's interesting about that overview you just gave Will is you could apply that same model in so many industries, right. You got to evaluate you got to evaluate who you put on your do. Do you have the right people on your team?
• 43:33
  Do you have the right mechanisms to to give them feedback, to compensate them, to reward them? So that they're they feel cared about, they feel valued. Now, you know, in the corporate world is probably a they don't necessarily talk about. But but some of that I can promise you they do still know. So that like that model is, is applicable really well outside of football.
• 43:56
  Yeah. I mean just getting the right people in the right spots and the right places and that goes with your staff. Yeah, I, I would say the same thing as far as acquiring your staff or hiring your staff. Well, I think that's one of the strong suits that Kirby's done at Georgia. He's done a fantastic job of hiring really good football coaches that know what they're doing and then defining the roles.
• 44:17
  And that's what, again, another very strong suit of his. This is your role in the organization. Do the best job you can with this role and now create more roles for you, whether it's at Georgia or is going somewhere else to be a head coach. There's been a lot of guys that are left to be head coaches because people want to see what the secret sauce is at George Jones of why are we being successful?
• 44:36
  Well, there's a there's a lot of reasons why we've been successful, but I think evaluation is a huge part of that. As far as the players are concerned and the staff, you know, and it's never just one thing, right? It's never just one thing that drives you across the finish line. I am curious, though, to hear your take on, I mean, you've been some incredible places everywhere.
• 44:55
  Every stop along the way in your career are are heavy hitters, right? I mean, South Carolina, Florida, LSU, Duluth, I mean, all huge places. One of the things we've done, I think, uniquely at Georgia, has been the psychology piece. Right? Some things that we've done there talk a little bit about the impact that you've seen that drives within the program over the last several years.
• 45:17
  And I've told you this before not to pat you on the back, but you've done a phenomenal job of adding that to the process that we've talked about that in other programs. Okay. But I don't know. And I again, I credit coach more of the true investment of of that of the, that part of our program and the true investment.
• 45:38
  Because what you emphasize is what's important. So if you bring it up one time in a team meeting, that's not really important to the players. They they think, you know, they're not dumb. They know they they they're very perceptive. And they see when you start talking about our DNA traits of connection, of resiliency, of toughness, I mean, composure.
• 45:56
  When you start talking about that in meetings, when you start making examples on film and we start talking about touches and we start talking about different things, that's real. And they see that that's really important to the head football coach. Well then that must be important to them. That needs to be important to them. And and when you make those examples week in, week out, day after day after day, and they have you come in and speak and we have players get up in front of the entire football team, which is a daunting task for a young man that has to get up in front of 130, 40 people and start talking about his why
• 46:30
  in life. I mean, that's connection. That's that's real. But it's something that is not just talked about it. It's practiced. It's practiced every single day in that organization. There is no question it's made a huge difference in our football team in my opinion. Yeah. I appreciate your kind words on that. And I think that what I get excited about too, is I think anything you can do that is going to move the needle for the performance of the football team, that also is going to move the needle.
• 47:02
  And the development of these guys as men, to me, feels like just such a slam dunk, because the thing, the things that we've we've collectively and that's why I spend so much fun because I know my job has been to serve is kind of the architect of a lot of these things. But it's like, we've all done this together.
• 47:18
  I mean, like the staff collectively have been the ones that have driven the skull sessions and then pulled it through the like. It's been such a collaborative effort. And to know the impact, I mean, I still get those texts that you the ones that you're talking about with your former players, you've got a much longer list of former players than I do, but I still get the text from the guys, the NFL reference and something that we did in a skull session or it's that's really meaningful, really meaningful to me.
• 47:40
  Well, I again and I think it starts at the top. And when when Coach Smart tells the staff, I would rather extend the skull session 20 minutes and, and take away 20 minutes of our meeting time, or take away 20 minutes of our practice time. And when you start here and stuff like that, and you'll tell the team that I'd rather take that away and let's do more skull session, let's do more connection, let's do more resilience.
• 48:03
  All study these things and study the All Blacks and all the different things that we that we studied together. That says a lot to to a player and to a football team. In my opinion. Yeah. Because I think, you know, we don't a lot of people listen to this podcast. They don't necessarily have visibility into other people aren't doing that.
• 48:21
  They're not thinking 20, 20 minutes out of practice, 30 minutes that no one's doing that. Not in this sport. No. Okay. Nowhere goes much. Champ's been he's been a lot of big places. All right. So here's I know we got to move toward a finish lot here a second I want to do some quick hitters for fun here at the end.
• 48:36
  Is that okay okay. Can we do some quick hitters that just a little little visibility into the personal side of coach Will Muschamp? Beginning with this. Beginning with this? Yeah. If you are driving down the road and maybe get your Spotify go on or whatever, you're, you're like kind of app of choice is what are we listening to on on the on the Spotify coach probably 8080s on eight.
• 49:01
  I'm an 80s 90s rock and roll, country, rap, whatever I like. I older music, I older music. Okay. That's the go to. What about we won't we won't pin you down to just one. But what are some of your favorite movies? What's on the list? Godfather series is number one, the town father. The town's a great movie.
• 49:22
  Been asked like that. It was phenomenal movie. I like the the gangster mob type movies like that. But, the godfathers, the whole series, I, I could take it on a rainy Sunday, then I don't have anything to do. I can watch one, two, three, all the all the way through. That's awesome. And then. Okay, how about this one?
• 49:46
  Dinner time at the most charming house? I'm. I'm waiting on that invite, by the way. I'm ready for my invite. Whenever that comes. I'm sure some people are coming over. What are we serving? Coats. What's for dinner? Probably filets. I'll cook them on my green egg here. Baked potato. And a secret salad. I can't explain what we do with that, but that's good.
• 50:08
  And I make that, too. And, Enjoy. We love being on the lake. Carol and Jackson Whitney. That if you held a gun to the family's head, we would be on the lake, enjoying enjoying the lake, enjoying being on the water. That's awesome. Okay, that does sound good. I would show up for that meal, by the way, so just let me know.
• 50:28
  Note that, note that. Okay. And then last one here to finish on this is a tough question, but I like to ask it if you could imagine a world where you had done something else, like you hadn't coach, you had done something different professionally, what would you have done?
• 50:42
  I'll probably be a teacher. Okay. Growing up with my dad and, and seeing again, making a difference in people's lives and knowing you touched people's lives.
• 50:52
  And after I picked up his pay stub that day, and he. And he realized, I realized how important, you know, that was to him. And I knew how much I was like him. That I'll probably. That's what I'd be. Awesome. All right, well, I, I can't thank you enough for this conversation. And then also just, you know, the the the envy that I always have for coaches is to think about the number of lives that you have touched, over the course of your career.
• 51:21
  And, you know, the, the number of people you've impacted who will then go on to, to impact so many more people, like, I think one of the biggest gifts and privileges of being a coach is, you know, you hopefully you choose a profession that has a what I call a high potential to create ripple effects. And like you've done that in such a profound way of the players lives that you've touched who are now affecting others.
• 51:42
  So I just commend you and thank you for that. In your service to the profession. Well, I appreciate you. I appreciate the difference you've made at the University of Georgia and obviously for Coach Moore, and then personally for me, I mean, just just the different leadership tools and teamwork tools and things that you've given me to help become a better coach.
• 52:02
  It's it's been pretty awesome. What else kind of you. Well, thank you for joining us. And, Yeah, just wish you the best with everything going forward. All right,