Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Gorgeous mom of five disappears from wealthy enclave just after morning school drop-off

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Gorgeous mom of five disappears from wealthy enclave just after morning school drop-off · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on a location of your emergency.
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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I'm worried about my wife and kids because
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Speaker 1: they left to go to New York and I haven't
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Speaker 1: been able to get in touch work out. Okay, where
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Speaker 1: they were going to New York? What's the license light
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Speaker 1: on the car? Excuse me? What's the license light on
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Speaker 1: the car? I wanted to gaping? What's who's the car
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Speaker 1: registered to? It's a registered to my wife's name, Jennifer
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Speaker 1: Doulos name for me, Dulos d u l o els
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Speaker 1: Jennifer g E N I A F E R. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: hard day birth. It's September twenty seven, nineteen sixty eight.
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Speaker 1: They were jogging with our baby. Feakink. Okay, what kind
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Speaker 1: of hold on? Hold on? What kind of car were
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Speaker 1: they driven? The rain Drower black two sixteen Black land
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Speaker 1: Rower rain Drower. A mother of five goes missing. The
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Speaker 1: days are ticking by investigators searching the husband's four point
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Speaker 1: three million dollar mansion to no avail. Where is Jennifer Dulos.
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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. You just heard
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Speaker 1: part of a nine one one call where the husband
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Speaker 1: is calling police fotus Duelos, the husband, and this is
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Speaker 1: what we know. She Jennifer Dulos, drops her children off
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Speaker 1: at school. She's never seen again, her car found abandoned.
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Speaker 1: But why, who, what, where, why and when? With me
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Speaker 1: an all star panel. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author
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Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Professor Joseph Scott Morgan,
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Speaker 1: veteran Atlanta prosecutor, Kenya Johnson Psychologists joining us out of
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Speaker 1: New York doctor Patricia Saunders. Right now to syndicated talk
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Speaker 1: show host Dave Mac. Dave, I want to start at
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Speaker 1: the beginning. Where did she go missing? When did she
2:16
Speaker 1: go missing? She dropped their children off at eight am.
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Speaker 1: The next thing we know is that she missed an
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Speaker 1: eleven am appointment. At twelve noon, the cleaning lady came
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Speaker 1: by and there was nobody home. So the police have
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Speaker 1: tightened the timeline down to the last time. Woa, whoa, whoa,
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Speaker 1: Dave Mac, Sorry, but the minutes are ticking by. I've
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Speaker 1: got to isolate something. You just said, she dropped the
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Speaker 1: children off at school eight am. And let me just
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Speaker 1: tell you, these people aren't slouch as they live in
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Speaker 1: a very upscale area. Possibly one of the most expensive
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Speaker 1: areas outside of nine o two one zero. It's around
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Speaker 1: the New Canaan area of Connecticut. And I learned living
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Speaker 1: in New York that all the rich people would leave
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Speaker 1: after work and take a train to New Canaan. I
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Speaker 1: mean the really, really wealthy people. So I can't identify
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Speaker 1: where the woman was living. The husband was living in
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Speaker 1: a four point three million dollar mansion, but they had
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Speaker 1: split up. Long story short, this is where I'm going
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Speaker 1: with this. Dave Mac eight Am to eleven AM with Me,
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Speaker 1: Dave Max syndicated talk show host Jessica Morgan. I need
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Speaker 1: you on this one. You know, when I'm up making
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Speaker 1: a cup of hot tea first thing in the morning
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Speaker 1: at about five AM, I do not expect a kidnap
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Speaker 1: to go down. What I'm saying is, I've been prosecuting
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Speaker 1: for many, many years, and it's much more unlikely for
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Speaker 1: a violent crime to occur first thing in the morning.
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Speaker 1: Now this is just anecdotal for me, but it's rare
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Speaker 1: when you see a kidnap or a murderer or a
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Speaker 1: violent crime occur first thing in the morning. What is
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Speaker 1: that I say? Um, I felt perfectly perfectly safe going
4:04
Speaker 1: out in hand delivering subpoenas first thing in the morning,
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Speaker 1: because all the dopers would still be asleep like vampires.
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Speaker 1: So what is it that the crimes do happen? But
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Speaker 1: it's very rare first thing in the morning. Yeah, you're right, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: I mean even even swat teams and you know, drug
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Speaker 1: task forth like you had stated, they will, they will
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Speaker 1: go and serve warrants at these violent offenders homes generally
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Speaker 1: at that period of time because you know these people
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Speaker 1: are not going to be out of the bed by
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Speaker 1: that time. Oh oh h w l no, because they've
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Speaker 1: been up all night long, breaking the law, selling dough,
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Speaker 1: driving around town, trying to steal things an arm rob mmmmm.
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Speaker 1: You can set up a whole battering ram outside inside
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Speaker 1: a doper's door at six am. They won't know anything's
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Speaker 1: going on. They're dead to the world till about three pm.
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Speaker 1: So can I just get a yes no on that,
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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Yes, So, Dave Matt, you're telling me she
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Speaker 1: goes missing between eight and eleven. She e then wanted
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Speaker 1: to to disappear and get away from her alife mighty
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Speaker 1: early in the morning, or somebody took her, and we
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Speaker 1: don't have any signs of her clothes being packed, or
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Speaker 1: a bus ticket, a plane ticket, nothing like that, do
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Speaker 1: we Dave. When the police actually went to her rented
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Speaker 1: home in New Canean, they found traces of blood and
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Speaker 1: obvious signs that had been cleaned up so that the
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Speaker 1: maid could not realize what had happened. So I'm assuming
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Speaker 1: they used luminar or something along those lines to determine
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Speaker 1: that it was enough blood. Who is they who used luminar?
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry the police. The police all converged on her
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Speaker 1: home to try to find her. And again we've got
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Speaker 1: an eight am dropping off at school. By eleven am,
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Speaker 1: she misses an appointment, and by twelve noon the maid
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Speaker 1: says there's nobody here. When the police show up to investigate,
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Speaker 1: they find traces of blood at such a level that
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Speaker 1: they believe it had been cleaned up in an effort
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Speaker 1: to conceal it from the maid when she arrived at noon. Wow, okay,
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Speaker 1: that's a whole new lot on everything. Hold on, Jackie
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Speaker 1: Howard here in the studio was waving her arms saying,
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Speaker 1: didn't he say the husband that she was on her
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Speaker 1: way to New York? But wait a minute, something is off,
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Speaker 1: Jackie Have you actually played the nine on one call
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Speaker 1: from twenty seventeen, Yes, she has. Okay, why is there
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Speaker 1: a two seventeen nine one one call? What is that? Dave?
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Speaker 1: Matt Nancy? The Dulo's marriage was very contentious, and Jennifer
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Speaker 1: actually filed for divorce in two seventeen, and that's when
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Speaker 1: that call was made. She actually left with the kids
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Speaker 1: to New York. But she went to get away from him,
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Speaker 1: to hide from him, because she feared that when she
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Speaker 1: served the papers, according to what she wrote, that he
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Speaker 1: would be violent towards her. So she actually knew this
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Speaker 1: was going to happen. It was all filed with the court,
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Speaker 1: and when he called nine one one, he hadn't been
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Speaker 1: served the divorce papers yet. He didn't know where his
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Speaker 1: wife had gone. He got the divorce paper after that,
7:00
Speaker 1: nine one one. Let's take a listen to more Jack.
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Speaker 1: I'm actually glad you played the twenty seventeen Let's listen
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Speaker 1: to more of it. Nine one one. When were they
7:07
Speaker 1: supposed to be there? They were supposed to be there.
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Speaker 1: Less of your partment? Okay, is not answering. They're not
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Speaker 1: answering their sold Okay, what's yourself? One? Number six zero four,
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Speaker 1: no four, Okay, okay, you keep breaking up. Stay. I
7:31
Speaker 1: need you to hold the phone to your face because
7:32
Speaker 1: I keep hearing you really far away. For small a
7:36
Speaker 1: zero six, so fourth, so for long for zero six.
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Speaker 1: That's my wife's cell phone number. Okay, who's the other
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Speaker 1: person that's with your wife? And Laurena? Do you know
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Speaker 1: her last name? Yeah? I mean a A. And he
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Speaker 1: goes on to list all five children missing, five children,
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Speaker 1: all gone with her. This is after she files for
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Speaker 1: a divorce. But that was way back in two seventeen.
8:07
Speaker 1: What I want to know about is the car. What
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Speaker 1: can we learn from the car? Take listen to our
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Speaker 1: friend at Fox sixty one. This is Samara Abramson. Fifty
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Speaker 1: year old Jennifer Dulos was reported missing Friday night around
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Speaker 1: seven thirty, police saying she was last seen driving a
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Speaker 1: black twenty seventeen Chevrolet Suburban in New Canaan. A silver
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Speaker 1: alert was issued. I hope and pray someone knows something
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Speaker 1: and she is found. A source telling Fox sixty one
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Speaker 1: that the State Police Major Crimes Unit is assisting New
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Speaker 1: Canaan police to investigate her disappearance. Jennifer a mother of
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Speaker 1: five who filed for divorce in twenty seventeen from her husband,
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Speaker 1: Fotus Dulos, and has been involved in a long custody
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Speaker 1: battle with him. People who live in town have noticed
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Speaker 1: an increased police presence. I was going for a walk
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Speaker 1: early Sunday morning through Waveny Park and I noticed a
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Speaker 1: car parked by the side of the L road and
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Speaker 1: there seemed to be a policeman photographing the car. That's right,
9:01
Speaker 1: and it was her car, Jennifer Dulos. She takes her
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Speaker 1: children to school eight am and the next thing you know,
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Speaker 1: by eleven am, her vehicle is abandoned. We know that
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Speaker 1: it is a twenty seventeen Chevy Suburban. You just don't
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Speaker 1: find abandoned cars. And young mom's missing in New Canaan, Connecticut,
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Speaker 1: very very unusual to doctor Patricia Saunders, Psychologists joining us
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Speaker 1: out of New York. What about it? That telephone call
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Speaker 1: that Woos made saying that his family was missing was
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Speaker 1: the night before he was actually served the divorce papers.
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Speaker 1: He sounds surprisingly calm on thee call. One of the
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Speaker 1: statements that Jennifer had made was she listened to years
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Speaker 1: of sickening revenge fantasies from her husband planning a whole
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Speaker 1: physical harm to people who he felt had wronged him.
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Speaker 1: So she had stated that she was afraid of her
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Speaker 1: husband and that he would find some way to get
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Speaker 1: revenge for her divorcing him. You know, doctor Patricia Saunders,
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Speaker 1: you know my husband David very very well, and all
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Speaker 1: the time I've known him, which goes all the way
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Speaker 1: back to college, I've never once heard him talk about
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Speaker 1: revenge ever. I mean, you know, he's in business and
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Speaker 1: business deals go up and business deals go down, and
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Speaker 1: sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. I've never once
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Speaker 1: heard him say I'm going to get that guy never
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10:40
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10:44
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12:23
Speaker 1: Day nine of Jennifer Dulos's disappearance, State police continue searching
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Speaker 1: for clues and evidence and to what happened to her.
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Speaker 1: Earlier this week, Channel three learned Dulos was going through
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Speaker 1: a divorce and custody battle with her strange husband. Sources
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Speaker 1: tell our sisters stationed CBS to in New York police
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Speaker 1: have found no activity on her cell phone or credit
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Speaker 1: cards since her disappearance last Friday. Law enforcement sources told
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Speaker 1: Eyewitness News blood was found during the search, and that
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Speaker 1: search in New Canaan has expanded to include other towns,
12:50
Speaker 1: including Hartford. State police there looked at security footage and
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Speaker 1: dug in trash cans for evidence, while canines walked several
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Speaker 1: streets between Homestead and Albany Avenue. Missing mom Jennifer Dulas
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Speaker 1: the minutes, the seconds, the hours ticking by turning into days.
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Speaker 1: Her five children want Mommy. So far, all we've got
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Speaker 1: is an abandoned car. Take a listen to what our
13:10
Speaker 1: friend news reporter Carolina Cruz at wfs Bay Channel three
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Speaker 1: has to say. Late Friday night, a report of a
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Speaker 1: foul smell led police to Hartford's Keeney Park. Officers returned
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Speaker 1: yesterday at daybreak, but investigators told Channel three the odor
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Speaker 1: may be from a dead animal. Our law enforcement analysts,
13:28
Speaker 1: retired State Police spokesman Lieutenant J. Paul Vans, who spent
13:31
Speaker 1: forty three years with the department, that the search is
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Speaker 1: spread across so many cities and towns because they're working together,
13:37
Speaker 1: sharing information, developing information all in an effort to put
13:40
Speaker 1: this puzzle together. Certainly they take information confidentially, confidential informant
13:45
Speaker 1: or a source can provide that information to law enforcement.
13:47
Speaker 1: It's got to happen. People have to help law enforcement
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Speaker 1: answer every single question surrounding this case as to what
13:54
Speaker 1: happened to this passing move. The search is on for
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Speaker 1: Jennifer Dulas. She's absolutely gorgeous. She is the mother of
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Speaker 1: five children. The police presence heavy. I've taken a look
14:05
Speaker 1: inside a husband's home. You know, there's all those real
14:09
Speaker 1: estate apps and you can find the inside of homes,
14:13
Speaker 1: for instance, owns Zilla and send men the others man.
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Speaker 1: This guy must be rolling in money. I'm just wondering
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Speaker 1: how if in any way the family's helping to find her.
14:25
Speaker 1: Of course they're a strange they're separated, but still she's
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Speaker 1: the mother of his child. Take a listen to this state.
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Speaker 1: Local and federal law enforcement have teamed up. They're looking
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Speaker 1: for her on foot, with canines in the air through
14:38
Speaker 1: the use of drones. The fifty year old is the
14:40
Speaker 1: mother of two sets of twins, including three sons and
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Speaker 1: two daughters, all under the age of thirteen. She was
14:46
Speaker 1: involved in a heated divorce in child custody battle with
14:49
Speaker 1: her estranged husband Photos Dulas. For nearly two years. There
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Speaker 1: are almost five hundred court filings involving their divorce proceedings.
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Speaker 1: There was a scheduled court date Wednesday for their legal proceedings,
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Speaker 1: but the date postponed one day after a court appointed
15:02
Speaker 1: guardian for the children filed a motion for a status
15:04
Speaker 1: conference regarding the safety of the children. Jennifer Dulas filed
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Speaker 1: for an emergency order for full custody that was denied
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Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen. The couple had a shared custody agreement
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Speaker 1: until the divorce was finalized. And it gets thicker here too.
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Speaker 1: Dulas said her husband had been having an affair before
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Speaker 1: they separated in twenty seventeenth, that he had purchased a gun,
15:23
Speaker 1: and he stated in court documents that he purchased the
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Speaker 1: gun simply to protect his family and that he would
15:27
Speaker 1: never harm his wife or his children. A lawyer for Photus, Duellus,
15:31
Speaker 1: filed a letter with the court saying that the children
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Speaker 1: are staying with Jennifer's mother in a New York City
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Speaker 1: apartment under the protection of an armed guard. There has
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Speaker 1: been no comment from Photus dulus As the search continues
15:42
Speaker 1: here today you're hearing our friend that Fox News, that
15:44
Speaker 1: was Laura Ingele. What do we know right now? Jennifer Dulos,
15:49
Speaker 1: mother of five missing to Kenya Johnson, felony prosecutor out
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Speaker 1: of the Atlanta juristation Kenya question do you why is
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Speaker 1: it that cops detectives must start with the husband, the
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Speaker 1: ex husband, the boyfriend, the lover. Why is that? Why
16:04
Speaker 1: do they look there first? Well, then you got the
16:06
Speaker 1: people that are closest to the missing person, So that's
16:10
Speaker 1: where you go to at least eliminate people. If you
16:13
Speaker 1: eliminate people and you can gather information, then you have
16:16
Speaker 1: a starting point for an investigation. But patterns are really
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Speaker 1: important in this situation. Someone that does the same thing
16:24
Speaker 1: at the same time is vulnerable when someone wants to
16:27
Speaker 1: do them harm, they know exactly where to get to them.
16:30
Speaker 1: And random strangers don't typically clean up after a particular clime.
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Speaker 1: So the fact that it looks like someone tried to
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Speaker 1: clean up blood indicate this is someone that knew exactly
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Speaker 1: what she was doing, where she was and when she
16:44
Speaker 1: could possibly be vulnerable. So now investigators are looking at
16:47
Speaker 1: the people close to her. They're looking at intense motives
16:51
Speaker 1: and means too. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensic Jacksonall State University,
16:55
Speaker 1: let me ask you a question. It seems to me
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Speaker 1: that if she dropped her children off at school at
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Speaker 1: eight am and then you find blood that seemingly is
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Speaker 1: cleaned up in the home that she came back, that
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Speaker 1: says to me she came back from taking them to school,
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Speaker 1: and I'm wondering if she's stopped anywhere along the way,
17:16
Speaker 1: McDonald's for a cup of coffee, the grocery store, whatever's
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Speaker 1: opened at eight am, came into the home and that's
17:23
Speaker 1: when the attack occurred. Because her car by eleven am
17:27
Speaker 1: has been found abandoned. Yeah, I think so too, Nancy.
17:30
Speaker 1: And to Kenya's point, I think that whoever's involved in this,
17:35
Speaker 1: they have to know her timing. They have to know
17:39
Speaker 1: that she would have taken those kids to school, and
17:42
Speaker 1: then they would have had to have had access to
17:44
Speaker 1: this area and in which this blood is found, And
17:48
Speaker 1: this is going to be essential. I don't know what
17:49
Speaker 1: you're saying about access. They could break in or get
17:52
Speaker 1: in with a credit card at the door and fallen us.
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Speaker 1: She left the door un lot, But as far as timing,
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Speaker 1: I believe that's when the incident occurred. I mean had
18:00
Speaker 1: to if that blood wiped up is related to her disappearance.
18:05
Speaker 1: In the last hours, we learned that the husband has
18:09
Speaker 1: given DNA samples straight out to David Mack. There's been
18:13
Speaker 1: a lot of breaks in the case during the last
18:15
Speaker 1: couple of hours. Dave mac joining me, syndicated talk show host,
18:18
Speaker 1: what's the very latest. The latest day we have is
18:20
Speaker 1: that Jennifer's husband, Fetus Dulus and his girlfriend Michelle Traconis,
18:26
Speaker 1: who's they were both taken into custody and charged with
18:29
Speaker 1: hindering prosecution and tampering with evidence over the weekend in
18:32
Speaker 1: relation to the disappearance of missus Dula. Okay, that's not
18:35
Speaker 1: good because if they are in any way trying to
18:39
Speaker 1: cover up or tamper with evidence or keep police from
18:42
Speaker 1: finding evidence, why would they want to do that unless
18:45
Speaker 1: they've got something to cover up. Now, a defense attorney
18:49
Speaker 1: will argue tampering with evidence or obstructing police does not
18:53
Speaker 1: a murder make But if they're what other reason would
18:57
Speaker 1: they cover up evidence or tamper with evidence or obstruct
19:01
Speaker 1: police in their investigation? Dave Mack. You know what we've
19:04
Speaker 1: gotten now is we've mentioned many times about the blood
19:06
Speaker 1: being cleaned up at the New Canaan rental home that
19:09
Speaker 1: Missus Dulos was living in. Well, they've gotten the DNA
19:12
Speaker 1: broken down from that, and that was part of the
19:14
Speaker 1: investigation over the weekend prior to his arrest. Mister Dulos
19:17
Speaker 1: actually had given a DNA sample and hair follical samples
19:21
Speaker 1: that they're running against some of the other evidence that
19:24
Speaker 1: they've found. They're working multiple crime scenes, Nancy, as you mentioned,
19:27
Speaker 1: from the SUV, the rental home, plus two multimillion dollar
19:31
Speaker 1: properties that are directly attached to mister Dulos. If you
19:34
Speaker 1: have information about the disappearance of Jennifer Dulos right now,
19:37
Speaker 1: her children are being kept under armed guard with their grandparents,
19:43
Speaker 1: please call in New Canaan Police. Two zero three five
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Speaker 1: nine four three five four four repeat two zero three
19:50
Speaker 1: five nine four three five four four. The search goes
19:54
Speaker 1: on crime stories with Nancy. Grace. Laura Bible a happy
20:12
Speaker 1: baby and child. Today her mom Loreen shared these pictures
20:18
Speaker 1: and many other things we've never seen before. Laura's kindergarten
20:22
Speaker 1: report card and her book of math with division and
20:25
Speaker 1: multiplication tables. She had written her name on the front
20:29
Speaker 1: in cursive, and I had raised her to be very outspoken.
20:34
Speaker 1: Speak up for yourself. You know, not be Timma. You
20:37
Speaker 1: know you can be anything anyone you wanted. But Laura
20:41
Speaker 1: is forever stuck at sixteen years old. It'll be nineteen
20:46
Speaker 1: years later, house in nineteen years before you know anything.
20:51
Speaker 1: Loreen still has Laura's cheerleading uniform she loved to cheer
20:56
Speaker 1: and the shirt for her last school picture. Tragically, that
21:00
Speaker 1: picture would be used for her missing poster. But Loreen
21:03
Speaker 1: is grateful for the continued support of so many who
21:06
Speaker 1: want to help her financers. You just keep the word
21:10
Speaker 1: out and hope that the one person will be out
21:12
Speaker 1: there that will say, Okay, today's today. I'm tired of
21:16
Speaker 1: deal and you know this burden on me hair is
21:19
Speaker 1: what I know. You're hearing our friends at Fox twenty
21:21
Speaker 1: three News in Tulsa and a mom Loreene Bible talking
21:27
Speaker 1: about a disappearance and we now know death of her daughter,
21:32
Speaker 1: Laura joining me an all star panel. John Limley Crime
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Speaker 1: Online dot Com investigative reporter where you can find this
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Speaker 1: and all other breaking crime in justice news. Karen Stark
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Speaker 1: renowned psychologists joining us from Manhattan. You can find her
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Speaker 1: at Karenstart dot com and special guest FBI Special Agent
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Speaker 1: Bobby Chicone. John Limley tell me about the disappearance of
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Speaker 1: these two girls, Laura Bible and Ashley Freeman. This took
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Speaker 1: place during Christmas break in nineteen ninety nine. The girls
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Speaker 1: were off for two weeks, and they had spent a
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Speaker 1: good bit of the days leading up to and coming
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Speaker 1: out of Christmas at each other's homes. And on this night,
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Speaker 1: Ashley Freeman was celebrating her sixteenth birthday with her sixteen
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Speaker 1: year old best friend, Laura Bible and her parents. Ashley's parents,
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Speaker 1: Danny and Kathy Freeman, and her boyfriend, Jeremy Hurst. They
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Speaker 1: celebrated at the Freeman's home in there in Oklahoma. Jeremy
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Speaker 1: left about nine thirty that night. Sometime during the night
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Speaker 1: or the early morning hours of December thirtieth, a fire
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Speaker 1: erupted inside the Freeman's home. A concerned neighbor called the
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Speaker 1: fire department when he saw flames about five thirty in
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Speaker 1: the morning. Laura's parents and police immediately canvas the rubble
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Speaker 1: for signs of the Freeman's and Laura, Kathy was found dead,
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Speaker 1: but Danny in the immediate hours and the girls bodies
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Speaker 1: nowhere to be found. So it sounds to me, Bobby Chicone,
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Speaker 1: that someone kidnapped the girls and then burned down the
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Speaker 1: home to cover up a crime scene. Well, yes, but initially,
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Speaker 1: as John just said that the girls were missing, and initially,
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Speaker 1: when they when they really ended their initial crime scene
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Speaker 1: at the at the fire in the mobile home, the
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Speaker 1: father's body was not there. So initially there may have
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Speaker 1: been thoughts that the father somehow took the two girls somewhere. However,
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Speaker 1: through sloppy police work and a crime scene work or whatever,
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Speaker 1: it was Laura's Bible's parents who were sifting through the
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Speaker 1: rubble of that fire looking for clues that came across
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Speaker 1: the mister Freeman's body. Somehow the police investigators missed it.
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Speaker 1: They recovered his wife's body, but his body was not recovered.
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Speaker 1: It wasn't recovered until one of the victim's parents are
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Speaker 1: missing girls parents were sifting through the rubble and they
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Speaker 1: stepped they saw his body and they've notified authorities who
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Speaker 1: then came and got it. But so I think, you know,
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Speaker 1: there was there was some missteps made early on in
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Speaker 1: the investigation, particularly at the crime scene. When you find
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Speaker 1: a home totally burned beyond recognition and the two girls
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Speaker 1: are missing, their bodies never recovered, I'm back at my question.
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Speaker 1: They're gone and the house is burned down, and both
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Speaker 1: the parents are found right there. It looks to me
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Speaker 1: like that's covering up a crime. Arson is used to
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Speaker 1: cover up a crime. Whether the girls ran away and
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Speaker 1: burned down the home or they were abducted and the
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Speaker 1: purp burned down the home, well, sure, and I think
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Speaker 1: an examination of the bodies both found that they were shot,
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Speaker 1: I think execution style, and so you know, the medical
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Speaker 1: examiner then came up with the fact that, yes, it
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Speaker 1: does we confirm what it looked like. It looks like
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Speaker 1: there was a crime happened in this house. The parents
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Speaker 1: were murdered, the house was set on fire to cover up,
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Speaker 1: and then the girls were for whatever reason, then abducted
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Speaker 1: from the house too. John Linley, what happens next? Well,
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Speaker 1: one reason that investigators fairly quickly rule out that Laura
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Speaker 1: and Ashley might have had anything to do with the
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Speaker 1: murdering of Ashley's parents or the fire is that Laura's
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Speaker 1: purse was left behind. She had some money that she
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Speaker 1: had received for Christmas two hundred bucks and her driver's
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Speaker 1: license all still there at the scene. To Bobbie Cone,
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Speaker 1: how does Ronnie Dane Busick fit into this scenario? So
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Speaker 1: the let me let me backtrack a little bit on
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Speaker 1: the investigation. So the family of Laura Bible, I believe a,
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Speaker 1: hired two private investigators two years later because the trail
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Speaker 1: ran cold, and they then went about reinvestigating the case.
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Speaker 1: And early on in the case, they discovered that an
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Speaker 1: insurance card from a vehicle belonging to his girlfriend was
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Speaker 1: found at a road leading away from the crime scene.
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Speaker 1: I don't know the exact distance, but it gave them
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Speaker 1: enough pause to say, you know, they contacted that that woman,
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Speaker 1: who's whose vehicle that insurance card belonged to, and she didn't.
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Speaker 1: She claim not to have known why. But that was
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Speaker 1: the first piece of evidence tying him to the crime.
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Speaker 1: Is his girlfriend's insurance card for her vehicle was found
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Speaker 1: in the vicinity to Karen start right nowned psychologists joining
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Speaker 1: me out of Manhattan. Karen, when you look back and
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Speaker 1: you see, for instance, what is apparently a mistake made
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Speaker 1: by the purp where they dropped something at the scene.
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Speaker 1: A lot of times, many people read too much into that.
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Speaker 1: They think they subconsciously wanted to get caught. I disagree.
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Speaker 1: I think they just screwed up. Yeah, I don't think
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Speaker 1: he wanted to get caught at off, although Nancy, he
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Speaker 1: was very proud of what he did. And these guys,
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Speaker 1: they were they would let people know about it. They
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Speaker 1: would show pictures. They were true criminals and true psychopaths.
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Speaker 1: They really enjoyed the suffering that they call. So do you,
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Speaker 1: Bobby Jacone, what how do you piece the facts together?
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Speaker 1: What do you think happened? Well? In going back and
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Speaker 1: now interviewing, because the case was so cold that people
27:25
Speaker 1: are now willing to talk a little bit more freely
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Speaker 1: about it. Two of the three suspects have passed away,
27:31
Speaker 1: and so now they're becoming through these new interviews, they're
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Speaker 1: developing a picture of what may have happened. And these
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Speaker 1: people are telling investigators that they were polaroid photographs of
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Speaker 1: the girls in their final days in the home of
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Speaker 1: one of the suspects, and they were bound and gagged
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Speaker 1: and on a bed, and in some of those pictures,
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Speaker 1: one of the suspects actually appears. Now, these polaroid pictures
27:56
Speaker 1: arelong gone and no one knows where they are, but
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Speaker 1: enough people saw them, and these guys were almost bragging
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Speaker 1: or showing off these pictures for a number of years,
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Speaker 1: and over those years, enough people saw these polaroid pictures
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Speaker 1: that has started to build a picture for investigators of
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Speaker 1: what happened to these girls. Let me ask you this,
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Speaker 1: Bobby Chicne, do you think there's any hype of finding
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Speaker 1: a body? You know, I always have hope that will
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Speaker 1: find some evidence of the body, depending on how much
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Speaker 1: the composition has taken place. But you know, there's always
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Speaker 1: hope that and I've worked you know, I'm a forensically
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Speaker 1: trained person. I've done crime scenes for a number of years,
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Speaker 1: and I know my colleagues in the crime scene world.
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Speaker 1: You know, they painstakingly find things that we never think
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Speaker 1: we'll be able to find. And you know, my hope
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Speaker 1: is that, you know, if the one remaining large suspect
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Speaker 1: lets the families know where those girls are. They talk
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Speaker 1: about a pit in the area where the girls lived,
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Speaker 1: or whether it suspects lived where the bodies might be.
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Speaker 1: So I hope that there they do some forensic examinations
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Speaker 1: and can maybe do some digging and maybe find some
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Speaker 1: DNA and let the families know, you know, give them
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Speaker 1: some sense of something that they can take away that
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Speaker 1: they know where the girls ended up to. John Limley,
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Speaker 1: do you believe there's any chance a deal will be
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Speaker 1: cut with Ronnie Dean Busick whereby he will give up
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Speaker 1: the location of the girl's bodies. That is what investigators
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Speaker 1: are hoping against hope that that might happen, you know, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: One witness reportedly said that a conversation between the three
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Speaker 1: men suspected in this case had implied that the Freeman
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Speaker 1: parents had been murdered over a debt, and that witness
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Speaker 1: said the suspects had also handed that they had taken
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Speaker 1: the two girls and eventually killed them. Listen Today, charges
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Speaker 1: were filed against Ronnie Dean Musick, who by laws presumed
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Speaker 1: innocent of the charges. Mister Busick is charged with acting
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Speaker 1: in concert with whether men as follows, four counts, a
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Speaker 1: first degree murder for killing Kathy Freeman, Danny Freeman, Ashley Freeman,
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Speaker 1: and Laura Bible, two counts of kidnapping for the abductions
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Speaker 1: of Ashley Freeman and Laura Bible, and a final count
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Speaker 1: a first degree arson for setting fire to the Freemon.
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Speaker 1: Theseley young ladies final days were certainly horrific, and today's
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Speaker 1: announcement no doubt comes as little solace to their grief.
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Speaker 1: It's been a goal or administration to help bring those
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Speaker 1: involved in these crimes of justice and locate Laurie Bible
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Speaker 1: and Ashley Freeman. Today is a major step toward that
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Speaker 1: goal was taken with the arrest of Ronnie Musick. We
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Speaker 1: want to convey to everyone we will not stop working
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Speaker 1: until we bring Laurie and Ashley home. We're asking for
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Speaker 1: any information that will help us find the girls have
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Speaker 1: been missing for more than eighteen years. We will never
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Speaker 1: quit searching, and we will do what is necessary to
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Speaker 1: bring them home to their families. The main investigators in
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Speaker 1: this most recent phase of the Freeming case have found
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Speaker 1: witnesses that proved that three codefendants talked a lot. There
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Speaker 1: was physical evidence in the form of photos, and we
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Speaker 1: could be certain several people out there it could come
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Speaker 1: forward right now and tell us where to find actually
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Speaker 1: in crime stories with Nancy Grace to Bobby Chicon, there
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Speaker 1: are a lot of witnesses, many witnesses who know the
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Speaker 1: suspects and have given us investigators reason to believe the
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Speaker 1: girls after their murders were thrown down a mine shaft.
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Speaker 1: If that's true, I mean I find it very difficult
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Speaker 1: to believe that every mind shaft is going to be
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Speaker 1: searched and we're going to somehow, all these years later
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Speaker 1: find their bodies. Yeah, it would be have It's very
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Speaker 1: difficult endeavor to search areas like that without some assistance from,
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Speaker 1: you know, the one remaining defendant or the one person
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Speaker 1: who might know where the bodies were disposed of. So
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Speaker 1: I think that I think investigators and prosecutors are probably
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Speaker 1: working pretty hard on working with that defendant and possibly
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Speaker 1: offering something of a deal to give up where those
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Speaker 1: bodies were at least an area where that can narrow
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Speaker 1: down the searches. And if you can give a general area,
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Speaker 1: then they can get more specific and go in. But
32:29
Speaker 1: you're right, I mean, it's virtually impossible. When you have
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Speaker 1: such a larger area to search, you always try to
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Speaker 1: take steps to narrow down where you look, and when
32:37
Speaker 1: you're talking about places like quarries and mind chefts that
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Speaker 1: are just enormous, you really do need the assistance of
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Speaker 1: someone who may know a little bit more information about
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Speaker 1: where those bodies are to John Limley, What if any
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Speaker 1: evidence is there against the remaining defendant, Ronnie Dane Musick.
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Speaker 1: So what the case is really being built The foundation
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Speaker 1: is witness statements that link Busic, along with Warren, Philip Welch,
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Speaker 1: and David Pennington to the killings. Now, these other two
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Speaker 1: men have since died, but the prosecution is really relying
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Speaker 1: on these witness statements to move their case forward. What
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Speaker 1: the witness statements have conversations with these three men about
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Speaker 1: the killings. Apparently they were quite open with some of
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Speaker 1: their closest friends about what they had done to this
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Speaker 1: family and about the fact that they had abducted these
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Speaker 1: two girls. Bobby John, what's the likelihood they can prove
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Speaker 1: a case this all without a body? Well, this is
33:39
Speaker 1: a tough case. This is this is probably the toughest
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Speaker 1: of these cold cases because you know, we're not dealing
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Speaker 1: with DNA like we usually see in some of these cases,
33:48
Speaker 1: you know, and we're not dealing with a body like
33:50
Speaker 1: you said, and so this is going to be a
33:53
Speaker 1: more difficult case because you know what the defense obviously
33:56
Speaker 1: we'll do, was hip into each and every one of
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Speaker 1: these statements and so called witnesses that have come forward
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Speaker 1: now and say these three gentlemen were involved in a
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Speaker 1: drug conspiracy. They were known drug dealers, they worked together,
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Speaker 1: and you know, they had a relationship with the Freeman's
34:12
Speaker 1: and it might have been a dealer consumer relationship with
34:16
Speaker 1: drugs and that. So so the theory is there. Um,
34:19
Speaker 1: it's very short on physical evidence right now in this case.
34:22
Speaker 1: So so you know, now I'm not a prosecutor, m
34:26
Speaker 1: but you know, as a prosecutor, you know that you
34:28
Speaker 1: know when you're so short on physical evidence, that the
34:30
Speaker 1: jury has to kind of make that that that leave
34:33
Speaker 1: of faith and put faith in the witness testimony who say,
34:37
Speaker 1: you know, I saw these photographs of the girls. These
34:39
Speaker 1: guys were bragging about it. This is what they said. Um,
34:43
Speaker 1: but you're right, this this case is sorely missing a
34:46
Speaker 1: lot of physical evidence. What about the theory that there
34:48
Speaker 1: was a police cover up? John Lemley, the police and
34:53
Speaker 1: Ashley's parents were they were familiar with one another quite
34:57
Speaker 1: a bit. And I don't know what you may because
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Speaker 1: of their drug dealings Danny and Kathy, the police had
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Speaker 1: a good number of occasions to deal with the parents.
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Speaker 1: Are you trying to say they had arrest of the
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Speaker 1: parents before. Okay, Karen starts psychologists. Now there are claims
35:19
Speaker 1: that there was a police cover up. Have you noticed,
35:22
Speaker 1: for instance, in the O. J. Simpson case and so
35:24
Speaker 1: many other cases, that's just one I pulling out of
35:27
Speaker 1: the hat. The defense will argue either police in competence
35:31
Speaker 1: or a police cover up. As a defense, it's kind
35:35
Speaker 1: of a go to defense. Well, you've got nowhere else
35:38
Speaker 1: to go, Karen Stark. And it's so hard to prove,
35:42
Speaker 1: you know, making of a murderer, making that the whole
35:45
Speaker 1: thing where they're saying there was a police cover up,
35:48
Speaker 1: and they don't get anywhere with it. It's just an
35:51
Speaker 1: easy way to blame the police for that. What is it,
35:55
Speaker 1: Bobby Jicone, You've got to see a pattern emerging that
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Speaker 1: in a defendant has nowhere else to go, they climb
36:02
Speaker 1: a police cover up. Sure, you know, the old saying
36:04
Speaker 1: is when you can't you know, when you can't blame
36:06
Speaker 1: the fact, when you can't explain the facts, you attack
36:08
Speaker 1: the police. Um. And so that's that's the age old
36:11
Speaker 1: defense tactics. You always, you know, they always that's been
36:16
Speaker 1: said for a long time. And so when you don't
36:18
Speaker 1: have much to go on, you know, just start attacking
36:20
Speaker 1: the police. However, in this case, you know, and and
36:22
Speaker 1: sometimes police aren't perfect either, and so if they make
36:26
Speaker 1: a misstep or they do something like that, it feeds
36:29
Speaker 1: that fodder, it gives fuel to that fire. And I
36:32
Speaker 1: think that in certain populations there's a mistrust of police
36:35
Speaker 1: or a desire to, you know, um, fight the police.
36:38
Speaker 1: And so I think that, you know, when when the
36:40
Speaker 1: police do something like that that seems maybe not perfect,
36:45
Speaker 1: they seize on that and they use it as a
36:47
Speaker 1: way to go, Look, if they were this bad here
36:49
Speaker 1: or this sloppy here, then they probably that miss behavior
36:54
Speaker 1: probably bleeds over into this case or something like that.
36:56
Speaker 1: So I think that there's there's a willingness and a
36:59
Speaker 1: desire to do at and sometimes if the police slip
37:01
Speaker 1: up a little bit innocently or not, it's used in
37:04
Speaker 1: that endeavor. Listen, there are people out there. I still
37:07
Speaker 1: hope in my heart that they know something, however little
37:12
Speaker 1: it might be to them. It's like a puzzle piece,
37:16
Speaker 1: but somebody knows what these girls are. And for me,
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Speaker 1: I need to bring my daughter home. You misters for
37:23
Speaker 1: a long time, but we're going to bring her home.
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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,