Latest / Wildlife and Adventure Photography / How to plan a shoot, with Graham Elliott and Shane Rozario

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How to plan a shoot, with Graham Elliott and Shane Rozario · Wildlife and Adventure Photography

• 0:17
  > Graham>Okay, well welcome to this podcast. So this is a slightly different podcast to what I've done before. I'WITH Shane Rosario, who is in Sydney and I'm in France. So it might be a delay and anyway I'll just say quickly. Hello Shane.
• 0:35
  > Shane>Hi Graham. Lovely to be here. Thanks for having me.
• 0:37
  > Graham>it's a pleasure as always. Shane and I have known each other a little while now.
• 0:43
  > Graham>shame. I met Shane because he had a project in Sydney called We're Observers and it's a really good project. It's a way of people kind of getting back into their photography, asking questions, spending time with a professional photographer. and Shane.
• 0:57
  > Graham>No, no, Shane. And we also have ah, Colin Seaton who is very good on the smartphone stuff and also post preessing all of that. And I got involved with we observers for a short time in Sydney. I think it was about 18 months. It felt longer.
• 1:15
  > Shane>Yeah, it did feel like a long time. Grahemam. It did feel like a long time. Couldn't get rid of you.
• 1:21
  > Graham>Just yeah, very lonely. Nothing to do. So the idea of this podcast is we thought we'd have a chat about how to approach doing. Well I've called it a photo shoot but it could also be a project or whatever. But anything you're thinking about doing for photography. And I mean I tend to come at it from the wildlife perspective whereas Shane is a commercial photographer and in fact started out by Did you follow around musicians?
• 1:51
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 1:52
  > Shane>Well I wasn't too far from you when I started photography. It was in London and I was off on a backpacking trip in 1998 and I bought a camera duty free. It was a film camera. I think it might have even be the Pentax MZ50. It's etched in my brain.
• 2:10
  > Graham>Very nice.
• 2:11
  > Shane>And I bought this camera. I had no idea. I basically bought it because you get the duty free and say when you buye you get a bit, it's a little bit cheaper. And so I took this camera with me overseas and I got to London and I didn't know about this but my favorite band Ben Harper and the Innocent Criminals at the time was just about to start his tour in England and he had, he had recently finished his tour in Sydney and my friends and I went to see all his shows. We got backstage st, we met the band and everything. It was a really good fun experience. And literally two or three months after that tour, I ended up in London and coincidentally he ended up in London. Four days after I did.
• 2:55
  > Shane>And so as I was flicking through the music papers I saw his ad and so I packed my bag, went to, I think it was Bristol, the first show and he was playing at the University Hall. Can't remember which university and iew Bristol.
• 3:12
  > Shane>Yeah, Bristol University.
• 3:14
  > Graham>Could have been. I'm just throwing it out there, I don't know.
• 3:17
  > Shane>Sensible. Let's call it Bristol University.
• 3:19
  > Graham>Let's call it that.
• 3:22
  > Shane>And so anyway, I knew, you know, like in Sydney w it was, it was before the time of high end security. So we used to sneak into a lot of shows in Sydney. So I sort of knew the routine.
• 3:33
  so at 3: 00 I knew that would soundchck and so I made sure I got there three and I walked through the back of the venue and there was a really scary bouncer there and he stopped me and he asked me what I was doing there. And at the time I used to wear these flamboyant clothes or second hand clothes, but I was writing into all the music of the 60s 70s, all the hippies and the bohos, you know. And so I had these belua pink flares on, very nice shiny blue top. I don't know what I look like at the time I didn't care.
• 4:06
  > Graham>You're really selling it.
• 4:09
  > Shane>I look like I was part of the band because no one wears this stuff on a normal day, in.
• 4:13
  > Graham>Publicage clothes without being in a band.
• 4:15
  > Shane>Right. So he took one look at me and I.
• 4:18
  > Shane>And I said to it's all right mate, I'm with the band. And he goes all right, no worries. And he showed me the door and it took me straight into the venue where they was sound checking. And I went up and I asked if I could tour and Ben Harper said if I could make all of the shows he'd give me a pass to get in.
• 4:36
  > Shane>And so essentially that was like, bewildering to me because in fact I didn't know anything about photography then. I. All I knew was I had my camera and actually, in fact, if we're talking about preparation, this is probably.
• 4:52
  > Graham>Yeah, because that brings us to preparation. But knowing how to deal with the bouncer wasn't quite what I had in mind. But it's all good to know.
• 4:58
  > Graham>Yeah, it's all.
• 4:58
  > Shane>In fact, what I was going to say on that note was before I left London to go to Bristol, I had to prepare all of my stuff to be able to sneak into that show because I already had the plan to sneak into the Show. Yeah. Already visualized being on tour with him. And so lucky for me, the only thing I had with me was a backpack with clothes and this duty free camera.
• 5:22
  > Shane>So the preparation wasn't too difficult.
• 5:25
  > Graham>And I should also say at this point we're not condoning that you sneak into into music event noence.
• 5:32
  > Shane>It will make no difference because it's nearly impossible to sneak into showse the heyday of sneaking into shows is gone.
• 5:41
  > Graham>You hit the sweet spot.
• 5:43
  > Graham>okay, so, so the purose of this is talk about the kind of things to think about. So other than getting past security, which isn't one that is on my list but I guess it's good. Good. To clarify, I'm looking at it. Mostly I look at it from a wildlife perspective because that's what I'm usually going off to photograph.
• 6:05
  > Graham>whereas Shane doesn't deal with wildlife too often. I'm not to say Colin. yeah, but but more from a commercial. Your daughter.
• 6:17
  > Graham>Well, yeah, we could, could talk about photographing children as well but it'I thought it'd be useful to run through the kind of things that we think about when we're approaching a shoot or a project and because if you're thinking of doing something like this it's good to have some reference points because I think particularly with the preparation, if you get your preparation right, the actual shoot itself could be much easier.
• 6:42
  > Graham>And if you are doing something like shooting people or something that you're not used to doing, it allows you to really focus on the things you need to be focused on when you're doing the shoot. Like just working with a person rather than worrying about your gear and you know, what setting should I have and all this kind of stuff if you've done your preparation.
• 6:59
  > Graham>So Shane, if you want to maybe kick off with the kind of planning you do and how you approach your shoots.
• 7:07
  > Graham>Yeah, start with.
• 7:09
  > Shane>Yeah, look, that story about how I got into photography is a wonderful tale of adventure. But when I did get back to Sydney a few years later, I was introduced to an advertising photographer in Sydney who was from England. And when photographers learned their craft back in the day, you usually did it like a trade, right? So you, you know, team up with a photographer whose work you love and learn everything about photography through doing it.
• 7:47
  > Shane>And so you're in the shooter. So I was with a guy called Ian Butterworth. He was an automotive photographer and shooting on 54 film. I had no idea about 54 film. But I did.
• 8:01
  > Graham>So just to clarify, that's a medium format film for those who are digital, grew up with digital and suddenly don't know what we're talking about.
• 8:09
  > Shane>Yes, ye, it's digital format. And you know, I was very, very green with film photography. but what happened was because I knew digital, I was taken on because digital was just coming in to professional photography at that level. So it was a very interesting time because I knew enough digital about digital photography or how computers worked in conjunction with photography because my background was graphic design and printing. and so I understood colorstood, all that stuff. And so I got into the advertising photography that way as an assistant to this guy. And we were doing massive shoots and so all of the prep that we had to do fell on me. It was my responsibility.
• 9:03
  > Shane>And so, so everything that we needed for the shoot had to be there because we would generally be away from the studio and we will be in some remote location. And when you're working with film, especially large format or medium format film, you want to have all your dark slides loaded, everything packed away in boxes and you don't want to forget a lens.
• 9:29
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 9:30
  > Shane>So I would watch him and one of the things that he said to me, very early, which I still remember and I still use, is you pre visualize the shoot, right? And you go from the very basics to the detail. So the very basics are obviously your camera, your tripod, the right head for the tripod, maybe a computer, all the cables you need, then you go to batteries for camera.
• 10:03
  > Shane>So all that stuff, right? So yeah, you've got to pre visualize what you're doing. And from that pre visualization you develop these habits that walk you through a structure of almost categorizing your gear from basics to detail.
• 10:21
  > Graham>Yepah.
• 10:21
  > Shane>You have a general list which you can see in your head and then you have a detailed list which is specific to whatever the project or the job or the adventure might be.
• 10:33
  > Shane>And so that s stuck with me for all these years. You know, it's just sat in my head and the more you practice something, the more it becomes part of your process, I guess.
• 10:43
  > Graham>Yeah, that's, that's really good because I was thinking of when I went to Uganda and I was photographing gorillas, that involved basically, although I didn't know it when I set out, I knew it could be up to 3 hour hike each way. And you're on the mountain gorillas. So the clue there is in the first word. You're in the foothills and it's rainy season because that's when they're on the ground eating bamboo shoot. So but of course it's wet, you're walking through undergrowth a lot of the time. It's very slippery. And again with.
• 11:15
  > Graham>So I'm thinking through what am I going to be shooting in? So I'm in forest. Even if I've got bright sunshine, I've probably got this alternating very bright and very dark areas caused by sunlight coming through trees. So how.
• 11:29
  > Graham>I did take a long telephoto and it really didn't handle it well at all. but I'm also lugging this stuff for a good six, seven hours because we were the gorillas for the best part of an hour. So that was another thought. And you don't leave a lens behind because it's a bit inconvenient. but it's that sort of thing too. And knowing that I've got to lug it. And then one of the tips I give people when they're doing, if it's going to be carrying gear'always going to backpack with hip straps on so that the weight, most of the weight is on your hips and not on your shoulders because that can make a huge difference.
• 12:03
  > Graham>And Camry gear gets heavy. Plus you might be carrying water. you might have my rain jacket I would actually tie around my waist. But you've got all this other stuff. If you're away from, away from the studio. But what you're describing, you're going to be away from the studio as well. It's just you might be able to set up and you might be able to carry it in a car, something like that.
• 12:25
  > Shane>It's a different, it's a different beast when you're talking about commercial work as opposed to, solar projects. Right. So yeah, I'll give an example. When we went on these big jobs with, advertising clients, you have a van, you've got a day or two to prepare for the job. You've got a brief, you've got a layout, you know, you know, you know exactly what you have to do.
• 12:49
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 12:49
  > Shane>So the, the pre pack is pretty easy in that respects. Right. You just need to make sure you get anything. So the prep paack is easy. But when you come to solo traveling and project work, there was a friend of mine who used to take people away hiking and I used to go along with him as the photographer and we used to go on these mad hikes. He was, ah, he was a very fit. It was like bear Grls before I discovered bear. Gres Ex.
• 13:23
  > Graham>Right. Yeah.
• 13:24
  > Shane>Like, right. While. And enjoyed.
• 13:27
  > Shane>Enjoyed the challenge of nature, you know.
• 13:29
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 13:30
  > Shane>And love walking. And he loved photography. He didn't do it, but we became really good friends because he appreciated what I did, I appreciated his. What he did. And so we teamed up and when he do these big hikes, I'd go along as the photographer.
• 13:43
  > Shane>And so my role was to capture everything that went on documentary, style.
• 13:51
  > Graham>Right, right.
• 13:52
  > Shane>So there was a TR. We did. It was a, it was a ten day sea kayaking adventure to Fiji. An island called M.
• 14:06
  > Shane>look, I for. I forget the name of the island, but it's one of the very last islands in the Archabelago. And there's lots of trekking and I had to carry all of my gear, with me. I had to carry all of my gear with me and I remember doing a bunch of research to figure out how to access the lenses and the batteries and all these bits without having to stop unpack, you know. So y.
• 14:34
  > Shane>As you said, it's a very good point you made, Graham.
• 14:37
  > Shane>M. The camera bag you carry has to be weight.
• 14:43
  > Shane>Weight distribution, like the weight distribution is very important and you know, these days it's pretty much in all the bags. But back in the day, backpacks are very different and the weight distribution is really important. Same with the backpacks you take away when you go backpacking with clothes and stuff in there now you've got all these support mechanisms and they really sit on your back really very comfortably. You can adjust the height for your spine and everything else.
• 15:09
  > Shane>So that is definitely the first thing to consider when you're packing or when you're buying a bag to actually take away. So you got to test the bag out. the next thing is to actually divide up your compartments so that your equipment sits in a way where the bouncing or the putting your bag down on the ground is not going to damage anything. There's not going to be movement in the wrong direction.
• 15:35
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 15:36
  > Shane>And so that's, that's another thing. but when we went away, I remember getting this system for carrying your lenses and it was a breastplate.
• 15:46
  > Shane>So it was kind of like the video camera. Best breastplates they've got these days.
• 15:51
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 15:52
  > Shane>Instead of the GoPro, you had this little channel which at the, at the base of your camera or your lens, I carry the 70-200mm lens on that little mount. You could put a base Plate, which was the attachment that sat in the chest plate.
• 16:10
  > Graham>Okay.
• 16:11
  > Shane>I could it and put it onto my chest.
• 16:13
  > Shane>And I would carry my lens on my chest.
• 16:17
  > Shane>And the reason for carrying it on my chest was very specific because as we walk through Kendavu, that's the name of the island. As we walk through these, through these jungles, I was really aware that my hip height would brush along trees and, you know, say there's a risk of damaging and so on. My chest was really safe. and I found and. And had to carry that for 10 days. But really, really handy because I could flip it off, put it on.
• 16:48
  > Shane>I had a little pouch for my small lens. And I just went back and forward, back and forward, and it was great. And it was also good because for me to capture people walking, sometimes I had to be behind them.
• 16:59
  > Shane>Sometimes I be up hill.
• 17:03
  > Graham>Down. Yeah.
• 17:04
  > Shane>W. Sh. You know?
• 17:05
  > Graham>Yeah, yeah.
• 17:08
  > Shane>Yeah. Allowed. You do all that. Allowed you to run with the gear. It was great. It was really. It was really fun.
• 17:13
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 17:14
  > Shane>You felt like, you're a serious.
• 17:16
  > Graham>Photographer, a proper photographer, just muing about.
• 17:24
  > Shane>I don't know about you, but sometimes I get this, guilty feeling. I think there's a word for it, isn't it like, impostor syndrome.
• 17:30
  > Graham>Impostor sy. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 17:32
  > Shane>Absolutely.
• 17:33
  > Graham>People to find out you don't really know what you're doing.
• 17:36
  > Graham>Talking out. Great work. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:40
  > Graham>I've had that a lot. I mean, even you're very good at something's funny. But you. And people love your work and you think you know, but they don't really know. I mean, the work is photograph. I know exactly what you're talking about.
• 17:53
  > Shane>It creeps up on you, I guess, you know, because, if you practice something long enough, you have to get good at it. And if you actually like what you're doing, you're going to become really good at it.
• 18:05
  > Graham>Exactly. Y.
• 18:07
  > Shane>It's like a frog. Frog and boiling water. That old, clich. Because you don't realize how good you're getting when you're the one getting better, you know?
• 18:16
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 18:17
  > Shane>And can notice your work.
• 18:19
  > Graham>Well, I think. Think, yeah, that's a good point. Because also, I mean, I look at what I'm doing and I've had people really like stuff, but every time I look at something, I can see what's wrong with it. And in fact, Colin made a great tip once. He said that, And I've seen this elsewhere.
• 18:34
  > Graham>He never looks at. I think Colin told me this. He Never looks at photographs for three months.
• 18:39
  > Graham>because what happens when you do that?
• 18:42
  > Graham>You're looking at them, the photographs with sort of fresh eyes, and you can't remember what you were trying to get at the time. You just look at the photograph as it is. I think that anyway, somebody told me that, and I thought it was really good because if you look at a photograph straight after you've taken it, Colin said, don't delete them. I think that was maybe what Collin said. But if you look at a photograph straight after you've taken it, you can see all the things that aren't, what you were aiming for. You know, something's in the wrong spot or the lighting or whatever. You're not looking at it objectively. You're looking at it or as a piece of art in its own right, you're looking at it against this expectation you had, which might not have been particularly realistic either, depending on what it is you're doing.
• 19:22
  > Shane>And the other thing as well is sometimes, if we're talking about, I mean, Colin Setonly shoots a lot of, photos using his phone.
• 19:31
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 19:31
  > Shane>And so it's a different practice because when you're shooting on your phone, sometimes, actually the phone allows you to shoot things, with very little thought and planning. And so I think sometimes when you're doing that, there's an advantage not to delete the photo straight away because, y. You're taking them almost as a throwaway picture.
• 19:51
  > Graham>Y.
• 19:52
  > Shane>But when you analyze it later, there might be something in it when you crop it. So that's, that's a valid point. But, just to cement what you've just said in relation to that, I think, and this is why your podcast is really good too, because, part of learning or, being in the creative industries is a combination of all of these things. You know, feeling like an imposter, learning without knowing you're learning all of these things. and so it's very important to hear other people's processes because what happens as agrapher is you end up in a place, that you practice what you practice by yourself. many photographers, continue to develop organically.
• 20:40
  > Shane>Learning a workshop here, learning a workshop there, getting a tip here, getting a tip there, figuring things out, experimenting, growing, evolving.
• 20:48
  > Shane>So there's no gauge to see how you're doing.
• 20:52
  > Graham>Yeah, yeah.
• 20:53
  > Shane>Hearing other people's processes sometimes, helps because you go, all right, that's definitely not me or o. I could use a little bit of that.
• 21:03
  > Shane>And so it help really helps. Place your own practice.
• 21:08
  > Graham>Yeah, I think that that's a very good point.
• 21:10
  > Graham>And I. The thing about the creative arts is that I think you're always learning. I don't think you ever get to a point where you've stopped learning.
• 21:19
  > Graham>I think there's always something and it might be looking at other people's work and you sudenly you get an inspiration that, you know they tried something you'd never thought of.
• 21:27
  > Graham>And another thing I like to do is to switch disciplines. So I mostly photograph animals, but I like portraits, urban. And sometimes when you switch disciplines, you having to look at things in a different way and then you realize you could actually go back to what you normally shoot, but apply something you've learned and then you've, you know, it's like your style progresses. I don't think you develop the style as an artist, I suppose, but to me it's something that evolves as well. I look at stuff I shot 10, 15 years ago, and it's not what I would shoot now.
• 22:00
  > Shane>Ye reason, literally, yesterday. What was. Yes, yesterday Sunday. So, for about two months, I knew there was a job coming up to photograph the interior of an apartment.
• 22:17
  > Shane>Right. So, yeah, essentially real estate photography.
• 22:21
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 22:21
  > Shane>Now, I've done real estate photography before and the industry has gone a particular way and the pictures that you see in the industry are, really unrealistic. Ye ul hdr. Right.
• 22:39
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 22:39
  > Shane>So you see the room and then you see the sky. Like it's a proper exposure and itah looks functional.
• 22:45
  > Graham>Yeah, yeah, I know what you m mean.
• 22:47
  > Shane>Yeah. But the trick is, as I was saying before, to understand what other people are doing, understand what you're doing, and then work out the compromise between what you're going to do to make it feel like it sits amongst the other shots.
• 23:08
  > Shane>M. Because you don't want to apply your style to it.
• 23:11
  > Shane>So that.
• 23:12
  > Graham>Yes.
• 23:12
  > Shane>And jars with the other photos in the collection of other apartments. Right.
• 23:18
  > Graham>Yeah. So it's more of a documentary photograph rather than a piece of art, depending on what. What you define as art. But it's documentary in as much as you're documenting what it looks like and maybe context.
• 23:32
  > Shane>Yeah. I would even call it your. You're creating a look.
• 23:36
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 23:37
  > Shane>Based on brief. Which.
• 23:38
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 23:39
  > Shane>Is a combination of, technique, the correct equipment and understanding what the client actually wants as output.
• 23:53
  > Shane>Because finally the final purpose is to sell the flat. Right.
• 23:58
  > Graham>It's to sell. Yeah.
• 23:59
  > Shane>You want a quality photo. Anyway, the point I'm making is, Because I knew I had to shoot this two months in advance. It gave me a lot of time to consider what equipment I'm going to need, what the weather was going to be like, what the light inside the apartment was going to be like at the specific time that we were going to shoot.
• 24:22
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 24:22
  > Shane>And so I had time to prepare and I went and bought a geared head. Do you know, do you know the geared heads, they have the precision controls on them.
• 24:32
  > Graham>Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 24:34
  > Shane>Because the head that I use for most of my photography is a really solid ball head joint.
• 24:40
  > Graham>Yeah. That's what I tend to use when I use a tripod.
• 24:42
  > Graham>Yeah, yeah.
• 24:44
  > Shane>And ball heads are great. Loosen it, you move your camera wherever you want, fasten it, you're done.
• 24:49
  > Shane>But it's not an exact, movement.
• 24:52
  > Shane>It's not. Whereas when you're shooting architecture or real estate, photography falls into the architectural category because you're shooting, interiors, etc. When you're shooting architecture, your, your movements have to be so precise because generally you're layering a stack of documents on top of each stack of images on top of each other.
• 25:15
  > Graham>Ye.
• 25:16
  > Shane>To get this HDR ah, effect.
• 25:18
  > Graham>Right, right.
• 25:19
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 25:20
  > Shane>And so, I went out and bought a gearead and there are dozens on the market now because the equipment has opened up. There is, there is an ability for professionals to buy equipment that isn't the cost of a small car, you know.
• 25:39
  > Shane>Yeah. So I went and bought this, equipment and I bought a bigger.
• 25:45
  > Shane>I normally work with a very lightweight Gizo tripod, which is a travel tripod because I can take it everywhere and it's so light and easy to release and I like the way that it works, you know.
• 25:59
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 25:59
  > Shane>But. And because I shit a lot of portraiture and I shoot a lot of events when I'm shooting commercial work and when I go and shoot my own projects, because I work with artists as well, I, I work with a lot of artists in Sydney and I shoot, it's generally people photography. So my equipment isn't too specific because I come from that advertising world. I know the kind of equipment that I need for the right kind of job and if I need something specific, I know where to go and hire it.
• 26:34
  > Graham>Yeah, yeah.
• 26:35
  > Shane>But this specific job, I went out and bought a very, very sturdy tripod and this geared head. Now it might seem extra extraordinary, maybe overkill to buy it for this job, but the intention is to do more interior and architectural work. Also, working with a geared head changes the nature of how you work, you know. And if you change the physicality of how you work, your.
• 27:08
  > Shane>Your visual changes as well. Like.
• 27:12
  > Graham>Yeah, yeah, no, that's a good pointeah.
• 27:16
  > Graham>it's like your whole approach. So you're working with an outcome in mind, a particular result in mind. But also how you get there and the methodology used. Well, to some extent, depending on what it is be dependent on the equipment you have. And if you're changing equipment, as you said, there's something that's fairly fundamental that does impact how you need to approach the shoot, how you need to approach getting the photographs, how you look at, how you get to that end point. yes, change critical the process and the same deply to lenses as well. You main shooting telephot, you go wide angle, you go for a fixed focal length, you go for prime laers, then that's going to change how you approach your shooting. Your subject totally.
• 28:02
  > Shane>For this particular job I went out and I hired a. A shoe with a cannon.
• 28:08
  > Shane>So I hired a Canon 11 to 24 mil lens. Now if you don't know the 24 to 11 to 24 milm lens, it's a.
• 28:16
  > Shane>It looks like a fisheye lens.
• 28:18
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 28:19
  > Shane>but it doesn't distort the image like a fisheye lens.
• 28:23
  > Graham>Right, okay. Yeah, it's one of those wide y. Yeah.
• 28:26
  > Shane>Shoot really wide, but it's a corrected lens.
• 28:29
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 28:30
  > Shane>Beautiful architectural work.
• 28:31
  > Graham>Yeah. That is the cost of a small car, isn't it?
• 28:35
  > Shane>That's the.
• 28:38
  > Shane>That's why you hired it.
• 28:41
  > Graham>Ren.
• 28:43
  > Shane>When you hire equipment, you have to be grateful for these companies and higher equipment because they have gear and the
• 28:50
  > Graham>Up.
• 28:51
  > Shane>You know, they spend so much money to keep the gear. So you develop a relationship. And this is all part of being a photographer. You know, it's not just the photo. You take it, you build your understanding of the community, the industry, the professionalism. You've got to build your network and your connections with peers so you can ask them questions like. Although I had done real estate photography in the past, I haven't done real estate photography for a long time.
• 29:19
  > Shane>So I actually rang a friend and how to sit down with them and he ran me through some of the processes that are being used today.
• 29:30
  > Shane>He.
• 29:32
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 29:32
  > Shane>And so just to get that insight.
• 29:35
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 29:35
  > Shane>Was very helpful. Very helpful because yeah, I had my own way that came through organic use and experience.
• 29:44
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 29:45
  > Shane>I didn't know what the industry did.
• 29:48
  > Shane>And so to get insight like that was invaluable. Yeah, it was in the ma. It was, it was just A phone call away because yeah, we friends for a long time. So he was, he had no problems sharing this information with me.
• 30:02
  > Shane>Some photographers may not because of that competitiveness.
• 30:07
  > Graham>Yeah, that's a shame. I mean, he raisedd a really good point. I'm sort of conscious of time as well. And I'm not quite sure how long we've been talking because I wasn't paying attention.
• 30:16
  > Graham>And there's a little list of things. I think we probably got to the second, third anyway.
• 30:22
  > Graham>but yeah, the point about that is community and also about the sort of two things there that a lot of photographers do work alone and anybody listens to this. If you, you love photography but you're doing it on your own, I think there's a really good argument to become part of a community somehow that might be a community you can get involved with physically. Like we were observers in Sydney.
• 30:47
  > Graham>You connect with people when you do photo walks and things or workshops or it might be you join a group online where you can just make connections with people. And then if you do need to find somewhere to maybe hire a specific bit of equipment or something like that, and you just don't know, you can always put it out there to the group because generally someone will know what's going on, or will know somebody who knows someone, that kind of thing.
• 31:10
  > Shane>Yeah, the community aspect is really, really a valid point, I think.
• 31:15
  > Graham>yeah, and sharing work and getting ideas from one another. It doesn't have to be these critiques. I'm a little more wary of these groups where they like to critique your photographs every month and all of that because to me it's subjective. And even when I went, so that there was the Australian Institute Professional Photographers, which I was a member of for a while. I think it stopped now. But when I put some work in to get the accreditation, I got feedback and one of the guys criticized the photograph I've taken of a whale because, it was sort of a bit out of focus in the back. Well actually. Or there was something he said it was actually the whale'blow is what you could see.
• 31:51
  > Graham>So there's this cloud of sort of steam above the way where it just breathed out. And I thought you okay, that's fine. But you clear don't understand what it is. I've taken a photograph or. And I think art'subjective and yes, there's technically correct photographs and also you can take amazing photographs that are technically incorrect. Something's out of focus or something's wrong. But just the way that photograph happens to work what you captured in that moment is absolutely fantastic. And yeah, you can trash it. Technically, it's all over the place, but it doesn't matter. You know, It's a really good ###ce work of art because, And to me, good work of art is something that connects with the viewer.
• 32:35
  > Graham>Viewer gets something. It might be an emotional reaction from it. Hopefully you're not, you know, horror or dist or whatever. But there's a real connection with it.
• 32:43
  > Graham>So yeah, connection is one way. Getting involved in commun community is one way of doing that. I think that shouldn't be underrated really. Particularly if you do spend a lot of your time with your photography just being on your own.
• 32:58
  > Graham>I think'valuable.
• 33:01
  > Shane>I think this is really, really important. And you know, to that point, you know, once, you've got that community, all of these other aspects of preparing for a job, thinking about your gear, getting insight into how to work certain processes. Astrophotography is a classic example.
• 33:19
  > Graham>Yeah, yeah.
• 33:21
  > Shane>When we were running workshops, for astroph photography and light painting, at one point I think you. For the light painting.
• 33:29
  > Graham>Yeah, went slight painting. I did astro, but not at the same time.
• 33:32
  > Graham>You so Iged up love my gear up that cliff through the big spider webs.
• 33:37
  > Shane>Yeah, yeaheah, that's right. Right. And you know, like Astor is a classic preparation type project because you've got to think about your camera gear.
• 33:47
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 33:47
  > Shane>But on top of your camera ge so again this becomes in the categories. Right. So you, you think about your basic equipment which is your tripod, your camera, your batteries, your backup batteries. Your backup backup batteries.
• 33:58
  > Shane>And so you get all your camera gear sorted out the bag you're gonna get in. Because when you go astropography, if your listeners are familiar with astrohography, you're working in the dark y. And if other people are with you, they might be exposing. So you can't really use light to see what you're doing because you will be thrown out of the Thring off the cliff, thrown out into the night. Night.
• 34:26
  > Graham>So, so you've got it.
• 34:27
  > Shane>You'got you got to have your. You got to have a bag packed in a way that you can find your way around it in the dark.
• 34:33
  > Shane>Very, very low light. And on top of that you've got your photography gear. Then you've got to think about the gear that you're going to wear. Like if you're out at night and you're getting Milky Way, depending on where you are in the world, you're either out in the middle of winter.
• 34:50
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 34:51
  > Shane>In Australia it's very cold when the best time for asherogrgraphy. And you got to think about what you're wearing. You got think about the gloves. You're going to think about gloves.
• 35:00
  > Shane>with cut off fingers. You go think about beanies.
• 35:02
  > Shane>Like there's a bunch of clothes you've got to think about. Then you got to think about Your car where you're going to park it. Is it going to.
• 35:08
  > Graham>I'm going to think about a nice comfy. Check it. And I was standing, I don't know for about eight hours because it was. It maybe not quite that long because I think I got up there somewhere around midnight and we or I finished at 6 o'clock in the morning. It was starting to, you know, my legs Hu. We up top Cliff.
• 35:24
  > Shane>That's right.
• 35:24
  > Graham>The other. If you really get into Astra though you then got that motor driven thing that compensates for the movement of the earth because if you doing. If you're shooting stars you start to get movement after about 20 seconds. It's really much, much sooner than you might expect.
• 35:39
  > Graham>They start to just. That there's enough movement that they're not spot points anymore. And yeah. So you can get these motorized things that you stick on the tripod and I've got one. It's bloody heavy. Sorry, in't say that.
• 35:56
  > Graham>Very heavy. We'll blep that. But yeah, you know it's another bit of gear that you've got to know how to set up probably in the dark unless you're able to shade the light enough or do it away from other people so you're not adding light to their shoe and then all. Because that all has to be calibrated as well for where you are on the planet. So.
• 36:17
  > Shane>Ye.
• 36:18
  > Graham>Yeah. If it's a special.
• 36:20
  > Shane>One of the things I learned from working with Ian in the studio was to rehearse what you're going to do.
• 36:28
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 36:29
  > Shane>Before a shoot we would set up the gear, would test the lights. We would do some preliminary insightful tests and work out almost like a trial run. Almost like a What they do these days with weddings. You know they have like a pre wedding and then they have weding. Yeah.
• 36:45
  > Graham>Yeah. Too much.
• 36:47
  > Shane>Useless. Useless in my opinion. But anyway, this is also a valid point because if you're doing something like Asher photography and you're working in the dark, you want to make sure that you'set your gear up, run through it while you can see and figure out the certain, the number of things you can do and it doesn't take long to get custom acclimatized to what you have to do. But you know, if you're new to it and as a way of understanding other people's processes, a dry.
• 37:16
  > Graham>Run is a good idea to and something. I've got two hot tips because there was one that I thought about earlier and I haven't said it but so two top tips, simple, one hotip hot tips, not top tips.
• 37:30
  > Graham>Anywayn're going to that. Yeah. So one of them is I always put the len hood on the lens.
• 37:36
  > Graham>It doesn't matter what's going on. But the reason I do that is I've done a lot of photography on boats to when I was photographing whale and the boat I was on had quite a lot of metal to them and of course you're on something that's moving and I tend to if my on strap on me I'll put my head and one arm through the straps. It's sort of off to one side so it tends to hang down kind of on the outside of my leg rather than be flopping around in front of me. But with the best will in the world, there's a good chance you're going to bash against the metal.
• 38:09
  > Graham>It might be a stairway thing or a bit of metal somewhere. But normally if the camera'swinging it will be the lens hood that hits whatever it's hitting and not the lens itself.
• 38:19
  > Graham>So if you've got the lens h on the plastic, they've got some give in them and generally they can take, you know, if you bash against something and it's just the lensage, you're not going to damage your lens. Because getting back to buying a small car, my lenses aren't quite that bad but they re. They're not cheap either.
• 38:36
  > Graham>Anyway, that was one tip and the other one about preparation. There are things where you can go and set up and rehearse all of that, but if you're doing wildlife and particularly if you're traveling to see wildlife, you can't really do that. So the tip I always give to people so that you get really good at knowing what settings you need to use on the camera and that you can get onto a subject fast, keep it in focus, which is another thing is just photograph birds because birds are everywhere and they're actually pretty tricky because often they won't hang around in branches very long if they're flying that's great practice for getting the bird nice and sharp. But if there's a building behind something like that, getting that out of focus, if that's what you're going for. So it's really good practice.
• 39:20
  > Graham>And if you do that a lot when it comes to photographing something in the wild, you already know what your settings need to be. You're not even really thinking about it that much.
• 39:30
  > Graham>Just compensating maybe for exposure or, you know, you'll understand how your autofocus works. I use back button focus because I just find that easier to use with that sort of situation. But that's my other tip. If you're in a. If you're going to cheoo something where you can't rehearse, look for something near you that is similar. If it's motor racing and you want to practice that, we will. You know, most of us live where there are roads and cars, so just try photographing cars and going for the kind of end result you're looking for.
• 40:01
  > Graham>I was going to talk about something with the end in mind, but I don't think I will because that's another conversation and I think you need to wind things up.
• 40:07
  > Graham>But, just on what we've spoken about, is there anything you'd like to say as kind of a parting thought?
• 40:16
  > Shane>There was something I wanted to say as a parting thought, but I've forgotten now.
• 40:19
  > Graham>It's parted departed thought.
• 40:25
  > Shane>Yeahah, that's right.
• 40:27
  > Shane>Look, there is one thing I did want to say.
• 40:30
  > Shane>and I think this is ah, a really important characteristic for all photographers, all creative people.
• 40:42
  > Shane>you know, there's a lot to be said for being resourceful.
• 40:45
  > Shane>So if you're out in the field and you've gone through your processes and you've pack your bag and then you get out in the field and you realize you've left your batteries on the charger in the PowerPoint on your kitchen. Right. So you, you've got to be resourceful.
• 41:06
  > Shane>And one of the reasons I decided to shoot with a camera manufacturer like Canon is because at the time I bought that camera, Canon cameras were dominant. Nikon and Canon were dominant. Which meant I could go anywhere in the world and be fairly certain I could access things that would fit the camera that I've got. Whether that be filters, whether that be spare batteries, anything. Right. And I'll give you an example. I was at an event, shooting an event. It was a music event and the music, the concert hadn't finished and I was down to the last half an hour. And my battery died. And I had no other battery.
• 41:51
  > Shane>But during the event I saw a, participant shooting on the, on the same camera that I was shooting. And he obviously didn't look like a professional photographer because this camera looked brand new.
• 42:05
  > Graham>Corners of the paint off all the edges.
• 42:10
  > Shane>And so I just, I just took this in at the start of the show and I went, oh, that guy shooting with the same camera. I just took it in for whatever reason, took it in. And then when I ran out of battery, looked around, found him, went up to him and I said, hey, listen, this is the situation. I could really use your help. And he took his battery, I gave it to me and that was how I finished the show. And I got to the end of the show, gave it back massive. Thank you. He was really glad because he felt like he did something, purposeful, you know, like he did something ye.
• 42:42
  > Shane>And I felt really glad because, you know, I just had to use it once. Right. This theory, if I needed something, I could find it. And so being resourceful is part of the tricks in your bagah. another quick example.
• 42:59
  > Shane>I was that a festival shooting? It was a food festival, cheese lovers festival. And I didn't have a reflector with me.
• 43:07
  > Graham>Right.
• 43:07
  > Shane>You know, like, right. I to photograph some food and I need to actually the direct light was too strong. I bounce light.
• 43:15
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 43:15
  > Shane>But I didn't have a reflector. So I got my assistant to grab one of the empty plates and I used the plate above my flash, pointed the flash into the plate and it bounce the light back down. But it was a really nice quality of light because it was white, porcelain. Right. So.
• 43:30
  > Graham>Yeah, yeah.
• 43:31
  > Shane>Or cemic. But it gave a really nice soft light.
• 43:34
  > Shane>It was curved and everything. So you know, in that instance, forgetting the reflector, almost helped my.
• 43:43
  > Graham>Yeah, absolutely. No, no, you're absolutely right. That thing about.
• 43:49
  > Shane>Learn how to become.
• 43:50
  > Graham>Resourceful and look out for people with the same gear you've got. Yeah. In fact, on my very last photo was. I'm pretty sure I'd either forgot my batch or I'd forgotten to charge it. It was completely flat.
• 44:02
  > Graham>And I think I borrowed one of yours. I'm not sure. But I do recall also on another photo walk, I'm pretty sure the reverse happened. You didn't have a battery. I got the extender on my cannon body. So I've got two batteries in there. I'm pretty sure I helped you, out. So yeah, keep an look at people with the same gear.
• 44:19
  > Graham>You might need to borrow something.
• 44:21
  > Shane>Maybe that's the little footnote. Being resourceful may you forgetful or make.
• 44:26
  > Graham>You careless, but if you forgetful for careless, at least be resourceful. You've got the fighting chance.
• 44:34
  > Graham>Well, mind it up there. Thanks Shane, for taking part in this. It's been fun.
• 44:38
  > Shane>No worries. Glad, glad to be.
• 44:40
  > Graham>so for those you listening, Shane and I have been talking about possibly doing this as something that we do more regularly as just the two us chatting about some aspect of photography. As you can see, we started out with a list of things didn't get very far at all.
• 44:54
  > Graham>But anyway, it does mean there's plenty to talk about.
• 44:57
  > Graham>So if you've enjoyed this, if you think it's a good idea, please let me know. So, my email address is Grahamography. and if you're in Sydney, do look at what Shane's doing with we're observers. So there are photo walks, workshops, and it's community so it's something to belong to. And if you're not in Sydney but in I would like to do courses.
• 45:19
  > Graham>So I've got stuff online and I'm also building online communities. So one way or another, one or both of us perhaps can help you with your photography. So on that note, I'm going to wind it up. So thank you very much for listening and I'll speak to you on the next podcast. Bye for now.
• 45:39
  > Shane>Byeam. Let's do it again sometime. Do it.
• 45:43
  > Graham>Okay, bye.
• 45:45
  > Graham>now just before I go, I wanted to let you know that I'm running a mini workshop on Sunday, 30th March, and I'll be taking you through six different areas where you can make an immediate improvement to your photography. So if you're not happy with your photography in any way, please click the link and come and join me. So with the price of your ticket you get a workbook which is 72 pages I think and you also have access to the recording of the webinar the workshop. So that will be available afterwards.
• 46:16
  > Graham>Obviously there's a transcript with that too.
• 46:19
  > Graham>And you'll also get a discount off my discovering DSLR and mirrorless photography course. And that discount is worth around US$90, €85, somewhere around that. currencies vary but that's the sort of thing.
• 46:34
  > Graham>So if you do want to make a difference to your photography, please come and join me. And if you've enjoyed the podcast, please either subscribe or just buy me a coffee. That would be much appreciated. So I hope you found it useful. I'll speech to you again soon. By now.