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Chris “The Machine” Arevalos: Inside a Cartel OxyContin Pipeline · money loyalty legacy

• 0:00
  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Money Loyalty Legacy.
• 0:03
  My name is Matt. You're here with Ross, AKA the
• 0:05
  Champ. And today's special guest is a
• 0:08
  former United States Marine. He was a former associate of the
• 0:12
  Mexican cartel. He was a former soldier of the
• 0:16
  Mexican Mafia. He is now a worker at a Fortune
• 0:20
  500 company. He has turned his life around
• 0:24
  for the better, and he is here to tell his story of redemption.
• 0:27
  He's from a small town with big dreams.
• 0:31
  His name is Chris Arevalos. Yes, Sir, that's.
• 0:34
  Correct. All right.
• 0:36
  Good, good intro for you. Good.
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  Yes. Most people do not know how a
• 0:41
  guy from a small town where where we at right now?
• 0:44
  We're in Austin IN southern Indiana, 4500 people, one red
• 0:48
  light. OK.
• 0:49
  How did you initially start with the Mexican cartel?
• 0:53
  Do they have, is there is there a specific city that they were
• 0:56
  associated with that you can say or like coming from where you
• 1:00
  came from? How did you how did you come
• 1:02
  from the small town to get getting involved with them?
• 1:06
  Well, even though it's a small town, I have a big name, you
• 1:09
  know, for the small town and throughout the Midwest I have I
• 1:13
  have quite a name and I have a lot of connections and I just
• 1:16
  know a lot of people. So you know what the people I've
• 1:19
  met, you know, over the years up to that point, you know, early
• 1:22
  in my life, I met a couple people that would frequent
• 1:26
  Mexico and United States and they just like the way, you
• 1:30
  know, I associated with them and I just kept a genuine row with
• 1:34
  them. And then our relationship Boston
• 1:36
  from there. OK.
• 1:38
  So these people that you were associated with, they put you in
• 1:41
  contact with these people over there.
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  OK. And then when did you finally
• 1:47
  decide to go over there and start doing the business with
• 1:50
  them? Was there a point in time where
• 1:52
  you're like, I need to expand what you were doing?
• 1:55
  Yeah, because what happened was I was doing so much down here in
• 1:59
  Austin and throughout the Midwest, southern Indiana, that
• 2:02
  my supplier wasn't able to supply me enough.
• 2:05
  So that's when I realized, you know, that I had to go big, you
• 2:08
  know, find like a super plug. So that's whenever I got my
• 2:11
  friends and and they told me, hey, you know, come over here
• 2:13
  and we'll talk with you. This was the year, specifically
• 2:17
  2006. And at that time, what were you
• 2:21
  moving as far as narcotics? Pharmaceuticals, to be more
• 2:25
  specific Oxycontin that's when the oxy epidemic was real heavy
• 2:30
  in America and it happened to hit this town very hard now now
• 2:34
  when I when I got into it I don't want nobody thinking man
• 2:37
  that that I was a pusher or anything like that.
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  When I come home from the Marine Corps, this town was already
• 2:43
  going, you know, they already had Oxycontin dealers and that
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  was epidemic was was this was Ground Zero for the epidemic
• 2:50
  Austin. So it was already going.
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  I was just able to come in and see what was going on, see the
• 2:56
  transportation logistics side and be able to just take over
• 2:59
  with my connections and my military mind frame, you know,
• 3:03
  with the training I had, you know, plus with my my super
• 3:06
  plug. And then it was just a matter of
• 3:08
  time. Take us through because again,
• 3:11
  most people are never going to understand what this is like.
• 3:13
  Take us through your first meeting with with with the
• 3:16
  cartel because like over here, people hear the stories from
• 3:20
  over there, right? So again, I got to keep going
• 3:22
  back to the you're from a small town.
• 3:24
  So you know, people out there could never imagine getting
• 3:29
  involved with an organization that that large, that massive.
• 3:32
  So take us through when you first had met with them, when
• 3:35
  you first go to Mexico and you talk about the process, what
• 3:37
  you're feeling, you know, the the whole process.
• 3:40
  Yes, so we had to go get flights to San Diego and then what we
• 3:44
  did was we parked to San Diego there and then Orlando, San
• 3:48
  Diego and then we come down through Chila Chila Vista, I5 O
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  time ASA San Isidro and finally across the Tijuana.
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  And I already had made the necessary communications with
• 3:58
  them and they tell me where to go.
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  So when I crossed in the TJ Tijuana now there was a police
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  officer on the phone with long hair, man, I'll never forget it
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  because I thought they had set me up, you know, And the guy
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  went up to the police officer like they told me and he pointed
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  that when I looked down and there was Puma, my guy, you
• 4:16
  know, I was supposed to me and I went down here talk to him, man.
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  And it was just basically like a big roll, like storage sheds,
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  but they had like Mexican artifacts, like a case out there
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  with different Mexican artifacts, you know, and then
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  they had like ponchos and pinatas and stuff like they're
• 4:33
  selling stuff. You like a Plaza.
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  I went behind the the poncho and that's whenever they had the
• 4:39
  stuff there. OK, now you said Puma, this is
• 4:43
  the the person that you were going there to meet with.
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  Yes. OK.
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  Can you can you describe him like what did what did?
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  Was he dressed in like a Tony Montana suit or like?
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  No, he didn't. He wasn't Tony Montana status,
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  but he was very clean cut, man. He was a big Mexican dude, you
• 4:58
  know, short stats were very muscular and he was very clean
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  cut. The way he took care of himself.
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  He was GQ smooth looking, you know, and he was just like
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  directing stuff, you know. Hey, he was telling me to come
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  here and then we walked around the punch and stuff and then
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  that's whenever he would count the money.
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  That's where we count the money and then he goes send up people
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  for the pills. They was on a bicycle man and he
• 5:19
  told him how many to go get. And then like 1520 minutes later
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  here he come with a little bit of garbage bag and I had those
• 5:27
  big tubs boxes like you would get from the pharmacy.
• 5:30
  And how much money did you bring over there?
• 5:32
  The first time, well, it brought $20,000.
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  Now being trained, you know, being a former Marine, obviously
• 5:40
  you're taught, you know, military mindset was there
• 5:43
  obviously was your heart bumping out of your chest when you're
• 5:45
  going over there? I mean, there's still that
• 5:46
  unknown. Yeah.
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  I mean, I know it's you have that training in you, but it's
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  still, I mean, we're playing by a different game of rules and
• 5:52
  you know that. Yeah, I know.
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  Anything over there like the law, pretty much it don't exist,
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  you know, and you can do they can do whatever with the person
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  they want and nothing, you know, if they wanted to kill me, you
• 6:03
  know, then they would have killed me and I would have never
• 6:05
  been seen or heard it from and that and that and I grasp that
• 6:08
  realization before I went over there.
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  I made it sure in my I told myself self talk.
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  Hey, look, there's either one or two things going to happen.
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  You're going to go over there and we're going to kill you,
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  man. Or two, you're going to go over
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  there and then the business is going to be done and try to form
• 6:22
  a prosperous relationship. So I'd always count on the
• 6:25
  latter of the two, you know, and be positive mindset because I
• 6:29
  knew that I was pretty much helpless over there.
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  You know, they're going to do what they want to do with me,
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  you know? So if they wanted to kill me,
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  then that's what they would have done, right?
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  You say it's so nonchalant, like were you, were you not like
• 6:41
  scared? That's what you got to come.
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  You know, That's the two things, you know, I did.
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  I had the whole flight out there.
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  I was thinking all these different scenarios.
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  And then I'm like, you know what?
• 6:51
  You can't control none of this, man, because you're going over
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  there and that's their area and they control it with the
• 6:57
  government, everything. So just come down to two
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  scenarios, you know, either they're going to kill you and
• 7:02
  that's it, or we're going to try to get this thing rolling, you
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  know? I mean in really, that's
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  literally it. So I mean there's.
• 7:08
  All these things all finally boiled it down to those two,
• 7:11
  man, and that's what I had to go with.
• 7:12
  That made it easier on me. Yeah, I'm sure.
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  Now, when you were here, when you got out of the military,
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  were you trying to transition into work or it was hard to get
• 7:19
  work or you just saw the opportunity and then just
• 7:21
  jumped? I got.
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  Hooked on them pills since I come home.
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  Oh you were? I got hooked on them before I
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  started dealing them. Oh yeah man, I will go home and
• 7:29
  stuff to my dad's and my and my stepmom there man.
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  And when I first got home from the Marine Corps and I'd be
• 7:35
  sick, you know, hooked on them and stuff, man.
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  They didn't know what was going on with them.
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  I tried to kept it, you know, in a hush and stuff.
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  But man I was hooked on those pills for like 3 years probably.
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  Now, was it, did you get hooked when you came home or did you?
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  Yeah. Was it right after the military?
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  Was it didn't start over there? No, you got them home and my
• 7:50
  cousin was like, we're just riding around having fun.
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  He's like, man, you tried these oxys?
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  I don't even know what they are. He's like, it's pain pill and
• 7:57
  stuff and everybody's doing them and everybody and they were
• 8:01
  there one night and I took a little snore and I got hooked.
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  So that's why I tell people, man, you, you might be, you
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  know, out with your family, your friends, you know, and they may
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  not have any ill intent of of harming you.
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  You know, partying stuff made me think it's a good time.
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  But you do that drug, you know, and, and they could kill you or
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  you can get hooked. So it's my recommendation,
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  strong recommendation, not even to do it.
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  You know, you got started, you got involved in the game, then
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  you end up going over and meeting with the cartel.
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  Now that first meeting with them, right?
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  When did you know you were safe? Like you like, all right, I'm
• 8:37
  going to be able to do business with these people.
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  You know what I mean? Yeah, it wasn't the first time.
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  It was maybe the third time I felt maybe that everything was
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  going to be OK because, you know, they probably see so a lot
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  of people, you know, maybe come down through there and say, you
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  know, I'll be back or whatever. And then they don't come back.
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  You know, I told him, look, I'll be back, man.
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  You guys still, still keep treating me good and everything.
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  I'll come back. So it was probably about the
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  third time that I went down there that I felt like, you
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  know, that they're more comfortable with me.
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  You know, they asked to see my ID card and they were joking.
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  Like I didn't know they had Mexicans in Indiana.
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  They told me, you know, because they see how Indian ID card was
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  like, I didn't know that, man. I started laughing like, yeah,
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  So, you know, like that kind of broke the ice with them.
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  And then I was like, man, you know, we're some good Taco
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  stands at or whatever. And he's like, come on, I'll go
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  show you one. You know, Angel, that was his
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  name. He's dead.
• 9:29
  Angel. They killed him, but it was
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  cool, man. We we went and ate some tacos
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  together at the Taco standing. Were they good?
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  Heck yeah. Help a store.
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  It had a right there thing was twisting with the pineapple on
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  it. Yes.
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  It was good. So Angel was a member of the
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  cartel. OK, now, are you starting to get
• 9:47
  relaxed now, like when you're going out and having tacos, when
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  you're going to the different places you were in Tijuana at
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  the time, right? Are you starting to relax or are
• 9:56
  you on edge this whole time? No, I'm starting to relax more
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  because I'm starting to see that this is their territory and they
• 10:02
  control this territory and people know that I'm with them.
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  So basically, you know, if you mess with me, then you're
• 10:09
  responsible, you know, to speak with them, You know, if
• 10:11
  something happens to me or something.
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  Are there like guard guys with guns around everywhere like in
• 10:16
  the. Movies, not right there in the
• 10:18
  Plaza, but that I did go to a compound of a Pumas that one
• 10:22
  time to watch a soccer game. He had a over there, they call
• 10:25
  it football, but it's soccer. He had a little soccer field and
• 10:29
  he loved having live soccer, man.
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  That was his thing, you know. But because I've seen him
• 10:34
  watching, I was trying to talk to him one day and he was
• 10:36
  watching the soccer on TV, had a big TV there, you know, in the
• 10:39
  Plaza, man, why he's doing this stuff.
• 10:42
  And I'm thinking, man, he loves his stuff.
• 10:44
  He's like, yeah, sometime you come to my house, man.
• 10:46
  I have live soccer games. I'm like, heck yeah, man, it'd
• 10:49
  be cool, you know? So I'm like, man, these guys
• 10:52
  just took instant liking to me. How far was he from the Plaza?
• 10:55
  His house. It was about a 20 minute drive.
• 10:58
  It was a an an come Panita and Compenita, something like that
• 11:03
  in Mexico. Yeah, it went straight down one
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  of those federal district highways.
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  You can see the ocean the whole time, and we pulled up there and
• 11:11
  it was just a bunch of vehicles, man.
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  Smoke from the grills and everything.
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  They were just having like a big cookout.
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  And it was cool. And there was guys with machine
• 11:19
  guns and things there. Yeah.
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  And they? Posted up?
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  Yeah, that was posted up. When he first come in to his
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  gate, they pulled us out of the car, me and my girl, and they
• 11:28
  made us give our devices, electronic devices to them and
• 11:31
  they took a wand over us and stuff and then they got on there
• 11:34
  and then they put us through. Just to give like an idea, are
• 11:37
  they wearing like you know, so you see in on the Internet
• 11:39
  wearing all black with masks. Are they just kind of hanging
• 11:42
  out with AT shirt? Just regular clothes, man, You
• 11:44
  know, regular clothes people. How much do you think he was
• 11:47
  making at that point? I mean was it everything?
• 11:49
  I'm assuming it's probably a multi $1,000,000 house, right?
• 11:52
  Yeah, yeah. This was like, this was like a
• 11:54
  house down there by the beach, but we didn't go by the house,
• 11:57
  but they had to cook out up there behind it.
• 12:01
  Yeah. But I don't know how much
• 12:02
  they're making or how they pay those guys or whatever.
• 12:05
  Was this like a big like opulent like mansion?
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  Like there's a movie called Crocodile dot D where there's
• 12:10
  like they showed this like big mansion, this drug Lords like
• 12:13
  house. Was it just this extravagant
• 12:15
  place or like like could you describe like ambiance and
• 12:18
  stuff? Yeah, when we pulled down the
• 12:20
  highway there, we turned left and it was a road.
• 12:24
  It went down maybe 10 minutes down that road.
• 12:27
  And then that's when you could see like that big house.
• 12:29
  And when we pulled down inside of it, we didn't go inside.
• 12:32
  We pulled down like by the garage.
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  And that's whenever they let me and my girlfriend out and they
• 12:36
  took us way back behind and that's where all everybody was
• 12:39
  partying. But we didn't go in the house or
• 12:41
  nothing. The house wasn't far from the
• 12:43
  ocean, man. It was a very nice house.
• 12:44
  Oh, was it OK? Was there like food and drinks?
• 12:47
  Back back there, yeah. There's all kinds of stuff, man.
• 12:50
  Everything you think of. Anything on?
• 12:53
  Yeah, like they had like a big, big table and they had like half
• 12:57
  gallons or gallons of of alcohol.
• 12:59
  Yeah. And they had like those little
• 13:01
  bitty kegs, people over there pumping.
• 13:03
  Them was there a moment when you kind of like went to the
• 13:05
  bathroom and you look just look at the mirror and you're like,
• 13:07
  what am I doing? Or like this is in.
• 13:10
  This is wild. Yeah, I'm, I'm trying not to
• 13:13
  never let it show though. You know, of course I thought
• 13:15
  things like that. I would think of being back
• 13:17
  here, you know, be like, I wonder what's going on, you
• 13:20
  know, back in Austin, man, I'm all the way over here on the
• 13:22
  other side of the world, you know, I wonder what's going on
• 13:25
  back there. And then I'll try not to go too
• 13:27
  far off. And I would like try to stick to
• 13:30
  my situation, awareness and everything.
• 13:33
  So how how long into your dealings with them were you at
• 13:37
  this mansion? Like what?
• 13:38
  What was? What was the time frame?
• 13:40
  I know it was probably about 11:30 or 12 always.
• 13:43
  I'd always go to the Plaza meeting, and that wasn't maybe
• 13:47
  30 minutes later that we was in a vehicle going that way.
• 13:50
  OK, yeah. And it was way after dark when
• 13:52
  we come back. What was this the the first time
• 13:55
  you met them? It was the first time ever went
• 13:57
  to the house OK. There all.
• 13:59
  Right. But I'll meet him every time,
• 14:00
  Puma, Every time I went over there.
• 14:02
  OK, so I'll meet him. So the first time you go there
• 14:05
  and you you get what you there for, how much did you pick up
• 14:08
  and how much did you bring back? Well, I had that 20,000 and I
• 14:12
  was getting up for 10 a piece, so I think I brought 2000 back.
• 14:15
  The first time, the only thing I brought back, but I was able to
• 14:19
  almost triple up. You know what, the amount of
• 14:22
  money I was making, I could almost get enough for three
• 14:25
  times that amount. Next time I always try to double
• 14:29
  up. So that the prices over here
• 14:31
  were a lot more. Oh, yeah.
• 14:33
  So what I was selling them for down here, my friends down here,
• 14:36
  I was giving them to him for 50 and they were selling them for
• 14:39
  80 because they were a dollar milligram.
• 14:41
  I was 80 milligrams tablets. They were selling them for 80.
• 14:43
  I was getting them to them for 50 on front.
• 14:45
  They wouldn't have to have nothing.
• 14:47
  Yeah. So I would make 40, I would make
• 14:50
  30. I didn't have to do nothing much
• 14:53
  and they really didn't have to do anything.
• 14:54
  I would just bring them up from Louisville.
• 14:56
  We built a house in Louisville past airport.
• 14:59
  So I just come straight up 65 up here to the exit and pull off
• 15:05
  and then give them to my friends, distribute them and go
• 15:07
  back down Louisville. And are you nervous at all?
• 15:10
  Because like you like when you the first time your brain these
• 15:13
  back. All because I'm so familiar with
• 15:15
  the area. Like I said, I grew up here.
• 15:16
  This was my town. I was addicted.
• 15:18
  So I know all the insurance and outs.
• 15:20
  I know everybody, you know, I know what's going on down here.
• 15:23
  So it was nothing for me, you know, to come down here, bring
• 15:26
  all those pills down here was nothing.
• 15:27
  And. Are they gone right away?
• 15:29
  Oh yeah, man, those 2000, they wouldn't last long, you know, a
• 15:33
  couple days and I would have to go right back down here.
• 15:36
  So how how's it going? About once a month.
• 15:38
  Once a month. Yeah, that's what the feds had
• 15:40
  me for 42 times crossing down there.
• 15:43
  So I come out to about once a month.
• 15:45
  So the Cardinal is happy with you at this point, right?
• 15:48
  They're like, man, this guy's a good worker.
• 15:50
  And like, I'm sure you're kind of elevating to like, Rockstar
• 15:53
  status out here too, right? Like everybody knows who you
• 15:55
  are. Oh yeah, man, yeah.
• 15:56
  Everybody's trying to get on with me and everybody, they
• 15:59
  don't have nothing. You know, somebody told me, hey
• 16:01
  man, so and so's asking about you and what they want.
• 16:04
  They said they don't have anything.
• 16:06
  You know, they're trying to come up.
• 16:07
  So I would just go find somebody, you know, if I had
• 16:09
  some extra pills or whatever and put them on, you know, but but
• 16:15
  you know, over there, your question over there, man, I
• 16:19
  started, they started liking me and getting comfortable with me
• 16:21
  where I, you know, I was coming, you know, once a month.
• 16:23
  So I was kind of regular probably, you know, more than
• 16:26
  anybody, you know, else that was out here in the Midwest, you
• 16:29
  know, so there's probably like, Dang, you know, let's do you
• 16:32
  know, you don't have no, you know, idea, You know what, how
• 16:35
  serious it is. You know, he just keeps coming.
• 16:38
  You know, they probably looked at like that.
• 16:40
  So he's like, man, you know, he's cool, you know, so we'll
• 16:43
  take care of him. Were they ever worried like
• 16:46
  Chris is bringing a lot of these pills back and forth?
• 16:49
  Like, were they ever worried, like, you might have, you know,
• 16:52
  get caught? Or are they ever concerned about
• 16:54
  like law? Enforcement one time.
• 16:56
  Well, what they end up doing was they bought some pharmacies and
• 16:59
  he gave me his business card. That dude did yeah.
• 17:03
  He was like man I'm going to start getting them all the time.
• 17:05
  You know he's like, I bought 3 pharmacies here's my business
• 17:09
  card he gave them to me and he was like, you don't have to come
• 17:11
  over no more. See that guy there and there was
• 17:14
  some big white dude I'm like yeah, he's like he's going to
• 17:16
  meet you in San Diego from now on man.
• 17:18
  That way you ain't got to cross. I'm like, OK then.
• 17:22
  So you didn't have to worry about that.
• 17:23
  How much were you clearing money wise?
• 17:26
  Well, after everything got going and I was going over there about
• 17:29
  the fourth or fifth time, I would try to at least make $5000
• 17:34
  a day. I know it don't sound like much,
• 17:37
  but I didn't want to get greedy, you know, and had other things I
• 17:40
  wanted to do besides run around, sell pills all day.
• 17:43
  So if I could come up with $5000 a day, man, I was done.
• 17:48
  But you know, that's like $35,000 a week, right?
• 17:50
  Yeah, no, but you're, you're like, I don't want to go too
• 17:53
  high. I mean, I get you're saying like
• 17:55
  the drug world and stuff like that, but I mean, that's still a
• 17:58
  lot of money. Yeah, especially for this area,
• 18:00
  man, you know, So then that's why I was like, man, I don't
• 18:04
  need to be going down there all the time.
• 18:06
  I don't need to be, you know, Tony Montana Scarface, man, it
• 18:10
  don't take much for my lifestyle.
• 18:12
  Maintain my lifestyle and I'm making plenty of money.
• 18:15
  At least 25. I'm shooting for 30 to 3025 to
• 18:18
  35 a week. Man.
• 18:20
  That's what I wanted and I was getting it.
• 18:22
  Was there any issues with anybody kind of like a territory
• 18:25
  thing like this area or? No happy.
• 18:28
  I'm taking all over and how I would do that.
• 18:30
  If you've got somebody over here in these apartments selling
• 18:33
  them, you know, they're probably getting them for 60 and selling
• 18:38
  them for 80. I want to come and give them to
• 18:41
  you for 50. You know, 40.
• 18:43
  If it's hard to turn you, then I'll give them to you for 40
• 18:46
  because I'm making money either way and I want it all now.
• 18:50
  I want, I want every dealer I want to take over.
• 18:53
  I want to give them my product. Now did you when you were
• 18:56
  around, you know, in your heyday with like the highs of all the
• 18:59
  drug stuff were you were still do you ever have a carry like
• 19:03
  weapons or anything? It was completely.
• 19:05
  Yeah, I never had any, never had any fights or anything, man.
• 19:09
  I'd always have a rule. If I couldn't get in and out of
• 19:12
  the house in under a minute, then I'm leaving, man.
• 19:15
  You know, whether the money is there or, or the pills, then get
• 19:18
  down or the business. I'm out of there, man, because
• 19:20
  it don't take over a minute for me to hand you those bag of
• 19:24
  pills. You hand that money, that money,
• 19:26
  I'll tell you before I'm coming. Have that money ready, ready to
• 19:28
  go since I walk in the door. So if you're acting shady,
• 19:31
  running from one room to the next, anything over a minute,
• 19:34
  I'm out of there, man. You missed out permanently.
• 19:37
  We're done. Has that happened?
• 19:38
  It happened one time man and I found out the dude, his dudes
• 19:42
  mom, they were going to rob me and his mom was in the back
• 19:45
  bedroom. They told her to go hide she
• 19:47
  don't want to see it and she was bagging them.
• 19:49
  Don't do it, don't do it don't do it.
• 19:51
  That's what I heard but I left because it was like come in here
• 19:55
  this bedroom. Then they walked back to the
• 19:57
  back and I didn't hear nothing. I walked straight to the door
• 19:59
  and got in the vehicle and left and later the plot was there
• 20:02
  going to rob me but the dude's mom didn't want him to.
• 20:05
  So you know that method say me under a minute method, that's
• 20:09
  why I called it. Once you start making money,
• 20:12
  right? So you come from very humble
• 20:15
  upbringings, right? And then all of a sudden you
• 20:17
  have all this money coming in. What are you spending your money
• 20:20
  on? Like, what's the feeling
• 20:21
  transitioning from being, you know, coming out of the Marine
• 20:25
  Corps trying to figure out what you're going to do to all of a
• 20:27
  sudden you've got a ton of money?
• 20:28
  Like, what are you? What are you spending money on?
• 20:29
  What are you doing with yourself?
• 20:30
  My dad, you know, over there, little Joe Revolos, he's a
• 20:33
  migrant worker, you know, come to this town with absolutely
• 20:36
  nothing so, and worked in the fields before they, he works in
• 20:39
  Morgan's factory. So like you say, man, I come
• 20:42
  from humble beginnings. We had nothing growing up, just
• 20:45
  barely enough to eat, not for nothing else.
• 20:47
  So, you know, I was like, man, I'm going to put this money
• 20:50
  back, You know, I'm making so much and and I'm not, I'm not
• 20:53
  outpacing my lifestyle. I'm not spending more than I'm
• 20:56
  making. I'm making more than I'm
• 20:57
  spending. So I'm like, I'm going to try
• 20:59
  to, you know, put this up, you know, for, for later on, just in
• 21:03
  case it's not always this smooth or something, you know, So
• 21:07
  that's what I did. I put the money up, put the
• 21:09
  money back in case something happened.
• 21:11
  But you know what answer your question, man, I was just trying
• 21:13
  to eat basically, you know, didn't want to go hungry no
• 21:16
  more. Been going hungry majority of my
• 21:18
  life growing up and stuff. So I definitely didn't want to
• 21:21
  go hungry no more. I was able to build a house out
• 21:23
  there in Bullard County, Kentucky, put my son in the
• 21:27
  school, and just then we really want for nothing, you know, at
• 21:32
  the time. But I just put it up, put the
• 21:35
  money up, put it back. Is there any fear about whether
• 21:38
  it be the authorities or whether it be the dealings you're doing
• 21:42
  over here or whether it be the cartel?
• 21:43
  Are you having trouble sleeping at night or anything like that?
• 21:46
  Or are you worried? Is there anxiety?
• 21:48
  Is it what's the thought process once you start making money,
• 21:51
  once you start getting more involved?
• 21:53
  I think it's just so. Yeah, just trying to figure out
• 21:56
  how to get more, man. I wasn't worried about getting
• 21:58
  killed or who got killed or my transporters getting hurt.
• 22:01
  I didn't care. I just want to try to figure out
• 22:03
  how to make that next dollar so when I would get out in the
• 22:06
  middle of the night and go use the bathroom, man, I'm thinking
• 22:09
  about, man, how can I make up for that 7000 I spent last
• 22:12
  weekend? I want to make that 7UP I spent
• 22:16
  plus at least five more, you know, to make up from the time I
• 22:20
  was spending it. I'm thinking I'm losing money
• 22:22
  and I'm trying to figure out every way to make up for it.
• 22:24
  I'm just trying to make as much as I can man, and I'm not
• 22:27
  worried about nothing else. Now at that point, are you are
• 22:30
  you using still? No, I quit.
• 22:32
  Yeah, I quit. That's why I left Austin to get
• 22:34
  clean. So when I went and got clean,
• 22:36
  that's whenever I look for the plug to come back.
• 22:39
  Because I feel like then you transitioned your addiction to
• 22:42
  that, to the money, because now money just was just.
• 22:45
  Man, that's all I was thinking about.
• 22:46
  You know, that's all I could think about.
• 22:48
  And I didn't, I didn't have like a big crew that, that I ran
• 22:51
  around with or a lot of social gatherings or anything, man.
• 22:54
  I was just focused on that money and knowing how to get more
• 22:57
  because I figured if I have friends I don't need, if I have
• 23:00
  money I don't need no friends, or I don't need nobody to hang
• 23:03
  around because that money's going to take care of me.
• 23:06
  Was there ever a limit that you put yourself to?
• 23:08
  And it says once I hit X amount of money then I'm going to.
• 23:11
  Walk that way you. Want to go more right?
• 23:14
  Yeah, yeah. What happened was my girlfriend,
• 23:17
  I would be bringing this money home at night.
• 23:19
  Tell her come to the car and he'll make care of this money
• 23:21
  and we'll be carried in in the house.
• 23:23
  She's like, man, when you going to stop?
• 23:25
  I some want to stop When I hit 100,000, we went shopping one
• 23:29
  time. She's like, I need to take my
• 23:31
  check into the bank, man. I was like, I told her
• 23:35
  something. She come back out there crying
• 23:38
  man, calling her mom. I'm leaving him.
• 23:40
  I'm leaving him. He don't know what he's doing.
• 23:42
  I'm like, man, what's going on? You just come out of the bank
• 23:46
  and she had me the, the deposit or the new bank account balance
• 23:50
  and it was like $260,000, man. And I had told her when I had
• 23:54
  100, I'm going to quit, you know?
• 23:56
  And she's crying, man. She's like, I'm out of here,
• 23:59
  man. You lied to me and I'm like,
• 24:02
  man, what's going on? You know, I've been here in a
• 24:04
  car, man. I didn't go nowhere.
• 24:06
  Not that I ain't even been on the phone.
• 24:08
  And she had that receipt, you know, with the 260.
• 24:11
  And that was in the bank? Yeah.
• 24:12
  How did you clean it? With gold.
• 24:15
  With gold. Yeah, the Muslim plug I had to
• 24:17
  begin with, before everything, he had a jeweler, A jeweler
• 24:21
  friend and he was telling me about he owned a jewelry shop
• 24:24
  because he would wear jewelry on time and it's nice.
• 24:26
  All my friends jewelry shop, OK, So what they were double eagle
• 24:30
  gold coins. They weighed an ounce and back
• 24:32
  then go was like an all time highlight 1300 for an ounce.
• 24:36
  And they would come in like little bitty rows.
• 24:38
  I forget there might been like 1010 coins to a row man.
• 24:43
  I would just go up there and buy all those gold rows I could and
• 24:46
  I would have him order more and then I would never open them.
• 24:49
  See, I would bury him and he told me any time I wanted to,
• 24:52
  man, I could bring them back and he'd give me like just 10%
• 24:55
  difference, man. So you you would bury the gold
• 24:58
  though. Yeah, I would bury that gold
• 25:00
  because you I mean that cash I've heard of cash have a mildew
• 25:03
  and and degrading over time, but that gold mine ain't never had
• 25:07
  no problems with it if you. Don't mind me asking, was there
• 25:09
  a certain spot that you dug by your house?
• 25:12
  Or a hog, A hog pen a. Hog.
• 25:14
  Pen. Yeah, a hog pen for my Aunt
• 25:15
  Pearl's house out there. Remember Aunt Pearl?
• 25:18
  Yeah, my grand Aunt Pearl. My dad remembers her, Yeah.
• 25:21
  She had old farmhouse out there on 256 here, and you go out
• 25:25
  there, man, old school farmhouse with no electric.
• 25:28
  And she had the cows out there and then shadowed a hog pen.
• 25:32
  And we used to make, my dad used to go out there and visit her
• 25:34
  and sit by that hog pen man. And I used to ride around out in
• 25:37
  the country and stuff. A hog pen was still there.
• 25:39
  I pulled off one day, man. It's like nothing.
• 25:41
  Nobody had been there forever. And I thought, man, it's a back
• 25:45
  of Gray spot to hide something. So I took a pair of post toe
• 25:48
  diggers, man dug about four foot in the ground and it started
• 25:52
  shooting those little bitty logs of gold man down through there.
• 25:55
  Was it in the same spot? Because I'm just curious.
• 25:57
  You know, sometimes people like put something here and then they
• 26:01
  digging around thinking where you put.
• 26:02
  There's no problem. You put a little stick there or
• 26:04
  something? No, you just knew.
• 26:05
  Yeah, I knew. Where was that?
• 26:06
  And it was just an empty bandit. It was no bigger than quarter of
• 26:10
  the size of the stage up here, man, Hog pen.
• 26:13
  So, you know, you go right there to it, man.
• 26:16
  That's awesome. Yeah.
• 26:17
  So at what point does your business, when does it start
• 26:21
  expanding? Like when do you start getting
• 26:22
  bigger with with your dealings with with with the cartel?
• 26:25
  Like how long did it take till you start bringing more over
• 26:28
  till till you start becoming up? Probably about, probably about
• 26:31
  maybe two years. Man, two.
• 26:33
  Wow, two years. OK.
• 26:35
  Yeah, I don't know that because the guy, he paid somebody to
• 26:40
  bring him to his house, Louis Rice up here by the Austin Park
• 26:44
  and he told me, hey, man, it's taking you.
• 26:48
  No, no, six months. It's taking you 6 months to to
• 26:52
  do what I what has taken me two years?
• 26:54
  That's what he told me. Yeah.
• 26:56
  Yeah. He's like, don't be dealing them
• 26:58
  over here on this side of town. I'm more go over to the South
• 27:00
  end of town. He's like, you're putting me and
• 27:02
  everybody else out of business. Oh, wow.
• 27:04
  That's what he told me. Six months.
• 27:05
  Six months. It took you 6 months?
• 27:08
  What? It took me two years.
• 27:09
  So can you describe the process of when you start getting more
• 27:13
  weights? Yeah, So what I want to, I want
• 27:15
  it needed to do is I had those friends, you know, that I grew
• 27:19
  up with. I just left Austin, man, that
• 27:21
  didn't have nothing. I didn't forget about them.
• 27:23
  And I come back, there was three or four of them and I just told
• 27:26
  him, look, this is what we're going to do, man.
• 27:28
  You guys want to do it or not. I'll I'll take all the heat for,
• 27:31
  you know, for bringing them. All you got to do is just give
• 27:33
  me the money. Ain't got to have nothing to
• 27:35
  come up with. And that's just whenever I just
• 27:37
  blew up like that. And can how how are they getting
• 27:42
  the drugs over here? Like how much are how much are
• 27:44
  they bringing? So you start off with 20,000,
• 27:46
  right? What are you going up to?
• 27:48
  Like what? What's the?
• 27:49
  Oh well, I had transporters on the commercial airliners.
• 27:52
  That's how I was getting them over here.
• 27:54
  I was paying people to get on the airplanes with them and fly
• 27:58
  them to the airport. And then once they touched down
• 28:00
  at the airport, they would call a taxi and I would already have
• 28:03
  a designated motel room for them.
• 28:05
  And I would tell them don't leave that room for nothing,
• 28:07
  man, until I get there. When I come get you them off,
• 28:10
  we'll take care of it from there.
• 28:12
  And that's how I would do them. And how do you obtain these
• 28:16
  transporters? People don't know the.
• 28:17
  Pencils although So what it was like, let's say if I grew up
• 28:21
  with you 2 OK, now you're where I want you to work for me.
• 28:26
  So I'm. I'm telling you, look, this is
• 28:27
  what we're going to do, man. I'm going to fly you out to San
• 28:30
  Diego, put you in a room. You ain't got to go nowhere.
• 28:32
  I'm going to bring you back the pills.
• 28:34
  I'm going to show you. We're going to put them on you,
• 28:36
  and then we're going to put you through through the TSA
• 28:39
  checkpoint. Everything's going to go good.
• 28:41
  You go to the motel room in Louisville.
• 28:43
  And are they checking their bags with the drugs in them or
• 28:46
  they're not like taping? No, I'll put them around the
• 28:49
  luggage. I had a way.
• 28:51
  I put them in the luggage. They didn't look very
• 28:52
  noticeable, wasn't very suspect. What were those guys getting
• 28:56
  paid? My transporters, man, Some of
• 28:59
  them, some of them girls didn't want nothing.
• 29:01
  Yeah, I would just take them out during the trip, you know, I
• 29:04
  would go visit them, you know, at the room and then take them
• 29:07
  out that night, take them out to eat and have some fun stuff.
• 29:10
  But some of them didn't want nothing.
• 29:12
  Yeah, some of them are just like, oh, that's cool, You know,
• 29:15
  I'm glad I can get out from over there, you know, for a little
• 29:18
  bit, man. And Scott County and I'll roll
• 29:20
  with you. Come on.
• 29:21
  Yeah. Then I have a couple people
• 29:23
  like, man, you need somebody to go with you, Let me know.
• 29:26
  I'm a soldier. Happy telling me.
• 29:27
  And I'm like, man, ain't that easy, man, you know?
• 29:31
  And these are people from your hometown.
• 29:33
  OK, Does everybody have an accent or?
• 29:36
  Well, not as bad as mine. I always grew up out in the
• 29:38
  sticks man. I'm turning 256 so I have a
• 29:41
  heavy accent. OK, was there any concern?
• 29:45
  Like what happens if one of my transporters gets caught?
• 29:47
  Yeah, what happened was one of them never knew about the other
• 29:50
  one. See.
• 29:51
  So if one gets caught, there's no way that the rest of them are
• 29:54
  going to get caught. The rest of them are going to
• 29:55
  make it through. One never knew about the other
• 29:58
  ones. They only know about themselves.
• 30:00
  So if they get caught, they can be like, yeah, but there's four
• 30:04
  or five more, you know, doing over here.
• 30:05
  Whatever. They just know about themselves.
• 30:08
  I don't know about nobody else. So it was a pretty good master
• 30:10
  plan in your part to just have every this.
• 30:12
  And it's it's funny because a lot of people once they, I mean,
• 30:15
  obviously this was your business that you're doing, but sometimes
• 30:17
  people like to talk and they want to be really cool about
• 30:20
  what they're doing and show that to your friends.
• 30:22
  This and you were keeping it even keeled, not saying nothing.
• 30:24
  That's why people say you're off the radar, man.
• 30:27
  I will pull up to my dad's and I will be driving like a grandma
• 30:31
  Buick LeSabre 4 door. No loud music, no do not even no
• 30:34
  tint on my windows, man, you know look like some your grandma
• 30:37
  will be driving man. I'll be just wearing because I
• 30:40
  would change. You know, I wouldn't wear nice
• 30:43
  clothes down here. You know you don't do that man.
• 30:45
  You wear those nice clothes, your nice vehicles when you go
• 30:48
  out of town, you know people, you, you look flashy and high,
• 30:52
  stylish around here. You're going to stand out, man.
• 30:55
  We don't want that type of heat, you know?
• 30:57
  So I just kept like you save and kill man, like level and stuff.
• 31:02
  And why did you decide to stay in in the area as like you
• 31:07
  didn't move out to Vegas or LA or you didn't get a house out
• 31:10
  there? Like what made you want to stay
• 31:11
  in in the area and the environment that you're
• 31:13
  comfortable with? Man, it's comfortable.
• 31:15
  I'm here like I signed everything.
• 31:18
  I knew when the out of town pill dealers were coming.
• 31:21
  I knew when people got their prescriptions, you know, I just
• 31:25
  felt like I could capitalize and I was, you know, being local,
• 31:29
  you know, versus going to different territories, man, you
• 31:32
  know, having to expand, like I say, I didn't really want a lot,
• 31:36
  you know, I was making more than what I was spending.
• 31:38
  So I was always ahead and I felt there was no need to to break
• 31:42
  that, break that method that I had.
• 31:45
  Now when you were in the business that you were in, how
• 31:49
  would you say how many? I know it's you're selling
• 31:51
  narcotics at this point, but hours a day or hours a week,
• 31:54
  would you actually physically doing stuff as you had a lot of
• 31:56
  people working for you? I mean couple hours a week.
• 31:59
  Yeah, sometimes, man, I was still drive up here by myself,
• 32:03
  you know, from Louisville and I would like, man, I want to make
• 32:06
  1000, you know, real fast and go back and that's everybody else.
• 32:10
  Still had other people like you're saying.
• 32:11
  But I will come down here and I remember how it started, man, I
• 32:16
  would go to hugs down here at gas station and get a pizza for
• 32:19
  lunch. I'm like, they almost got the
• 32:21
  pizzas ready. I'm thinking I can use something
• 32:23
  to eat, you know, I'm still riding around selling whatever.
• 32:25
  And then as time went on, man, I quit going to the hugs, getting
• 32:30
  the pizza because I would already have my $1000 made way
• 32:33
  before, you know, they made the pizzas.
• 32:35
  And I was like, man, I'm getting, I'm getting good now.
• 32:37
  You know, I'm not even making in time for lunch.
• 32:39
  I'm making 1000 before lunchtime even hits.
• 32:42
  So I was good. I knew that I was elevating, you
• 32:44
  know, elevating my game right there a little bit because I
• 32:48
  quit getting lunch pizzas. I was making 1000 an hour and a
• 32:51
  half. Two hours man.
• 32:52
  Now with dealing with the carts, I'll just go back to that.
• 32:56
  You know, you see in movies and I want to if there's a
• 32:59
  difference in this so people will get an idea.
• 33:01
  You know, they obviously looked at your ID, they knew where you
• 33:03
  live. Did they say anything or like
• 33:05
  show you something where I was like, hey, if you do something
• 33:07
  wrong to us, this is the consequence.
• 33:10
  No, they already knew. I think they already knew that I
• 33:12
  knew. You know that you don't do
• 33:14
  nothing like that, man, because with them there's nothing they
• 33:18
  won't do, you know, if you cross them and stuff.
• 33:20
  And when they do do something, that's a horrific example, you
• 33:23
  know, terrible example of what they do to someone.
• 33:26
  And they knew that I would never do anything like that.
• 33:28
  Wasn't stupid enough or greedy enough man to do something to
• 33:32
  violate any of their agreements. When you describe the dealing
• 33:36
  out here and the making of the you making the money, it it's a
• 33:42
  lot different than a lot of you know, like street gangs, for
• 33:46
  example, in Chicago, like the way you you're presenting it.
• 33:49
  There was no violence. There was no craziness.
• 33:51
  It was just like you just came back.
• 33:53
  What about your day like every day like that, that that's
• 33:56
  what's very interesting is you didn't have to deal with any of
• 33:59
  the, the wildness when you're doing this, right?
• 34:01
  So there was no, there was no competitors out here that you
• 34:05
  didn't have to carry guns. There was no gangs or anything
• 34:08
  like that coming for you. It was just a very just a
• 34:11
  regular day, right? Go get your pizza down the
• 34:13
  street. Exactly, man, because I knew all
• 34:15
  these people that were doing it, you know, like my friend Lester
• 34:18
  Ray Noble when he used to live here at these apartments across
• 34:22
  the road. I will call him a.
• 34:23
  He's like, yeah, I need you. Just come in the morning.
• 34:25
  I was kind of late, so I know he needed me to bring him more and
• 34:28
  he's going to give me the money. Lester Ray.
• 34:31
  So when I went over there one morning, had his apartment with
• 34:34
  his girlfriend and stuff, and he's like, man, we will.
• 34:38
  You can you go to the store for me and get me some coffee?
• 34:40
  You know, I go down there and get us some coffee.
• 34:42
  We'll come back and make some coffee, sit there and drink it,
• 34:45
  you know, and talk about hunting and fishing and make the trade
• 34:49
  and I'll be on my way, man. So there was never anything, you
• 34:52
  know, No stupidity. Now, with how calm and tame it
• 34:55
  was over here, right, it was very even keel.
• 35:00
  There was no mayhem going on, right?
• 35:02
  Like like with, you know, drug, drug situations with other
• 35:05
  cities. It's a completely different
• 35:06
  element, right? When you go over to Mexico, did
• 35:09
  you ever see any violence or anything or any wild stories
• 35:13
  from being around the cartel? You because you come from this
• 35:15
  peaceful small town was there? Did you ever get to the Jekyll
• 35:19
  and Hyde effect where you went over to Mexico and you're on the
• 35:22
  cartel and you saw this, the violence, You know, I mean, if
• 35:26
  you can kind of explain this, we, we described the calmness
• 35:28
  of, you know, where you're from and what's going on.
• 35:31
  Could you give us like the other side of what was happening with
• 35:35
  the cartel over in Mexico, like in violence situations?
• 35:38
  Like over here, you know of someone, you know, kind of
• 35:42
  stepped you on a deal, maybe stole from you a little bit or
• 35:47
  didn't pay you, you know, you might just let it go.
• 35:51
  You know, I'm look, I'm cutting the dude off man.
• 35:53
  It's not worth the repercussions.
• 35:55
  All I might have to do. So I'm just not going to mess
• 35:57
  what to do no more. Just chalk it up, cut as a loss,
• 36:00
  charge it to the game over there in Mexico.
• 36:02
  You know, if he was to do something like that, man, they
• 36:05
  would start with your family 1st and then work their way down.
• 36:09
  They would let you live and let you view the violence and live
• 36:12
  with the misery. That's how they would pay you
• 36:15
  back. Did you ever witness anything
• 36:18
  first hand over there that would terrify people like some because
• 36:21
  people might be listening to this or there might be kids
• 36:23
  listening like a rap song or something like that.
• 36:25
  And they're like, I want to, you know, are involved with the
• 36:28
  street gang in Los Angeles and their aspirations are to get
• 36:30
  involved. And something like that could
• 36:33
  could you kind of paint the, the picture of this is the reality
• 36:37
  of what I've seen over there as far as like something that would
• 36:41
  scare most people out of. Yeah, yeah.
• 36:43
  Like I say, Pumas dead and Angels dead, you know?
• 36:47
  So if you get in that lifestyle, man, you're not going to last.
• 36:50
  You know? People try to glamorize it.
• 36:52
  Like you sound those rap videos and through rap songs.
• 36:56
  That's for entertainment. It doesn't work like that, man.
• 36:59
  If it was that easy and that glamorous, everybody would do
• 37:02
  it, you know? Everybody would do it.
• 37:04
  But it's not easy, man. It's not even worth it, you
• 37:07
  know? So if you have aspirations or
• 37:10
  you have fantasies of going in that lifestyle in that
• 37:13
  direction, I urge you to listen to this podcast, man, and, and
• 37:17
  take heed to to what we're talking about because it's it's
• 37:22
  a dead end. It's a dead end road.
• 37:24
  Did did you ever see anybody getting punished like you
• 37:27
  obviously were in good terms with them?
• 37:29
  Did you see anybody on bad terms when you're over there meeting
• 37:31
  with them? Did you ever reprimand any
• 37:33
  anyone get reprimanded? Yeah.
• 37:35
  What I did see one time was a guy, another guy tried to pick
• 37:39
  me up my business because Puma was already gone.
• 37:43
  And so one of the soldiers for the cartel come by there, see me
• 37:46
  and the guy talking, hey, what's going on?
• 37:47
  I told him the truth. Look, that guy's trying to get
• 37:49
  me some Oxys, man. He ran around, it was a grill,
• 37:53
  grabbed him and trying to right here's a flat top grill.
• 37:56
  Almost had his head and his cheek on that grill and was
• 37:59
  telling me, hey, did he approach you or did you approach him?
• 38:02
  And I say, first he asked me if I wanted something.
• 38:06
  I told him I didn't do that, that I'd do the oxys.
• 38:09
  And that's when he told me to come in here in the kitchen, me
• 38:11
  and my girl. So I actually I told him and he
• 38:14
  let the guy go and he's like, tell me my girl, come on.
• 38:16
  He's like, man, you can't be messing nobody else but us, man.
• 38:19
  You're where you're with us from now on.
• 38:21
  He's like if you talk to somebody or somebody talks, you
• 38:24
  just don't have nothing to do with it, man.
• 38:26
  He's like, we will take care of you.
• 38:28
  So I got I saved him, you know, he approached me first man, but
• 38:32
  I told him people that I approached him because his face
• 38:36
  was only like this far from that grill.
• 38:38
  And black tie, he was going to do it.
• 38:40
  That guy's going to do it, man. That guy was screaming and, and
• 38:43
  out there was the patios, the people eating, you know, and
• 38:46
  then the server comes back in here and serves the drinks and
• 38:49
  makes the food. And that's where was that man.
• 38:51
  It was in broad daylight, man. It's like it was nothing.
• 38:54
  Now when you said Puma and Angel both?
• 38:57
  Yeah, they're dead, man. Do they?
• 38:58
  Was it while you were still dealing with them?
• 39:00
  No. Or it.
• 39:01
  Was afterwards. This is after.
• 39:02
  Now, do you have to know how that happened?
• 39:04
  Was just. No, I don't know what happened,
• 39:06
  man. And you know, those are two
• 39:08
  solid dudes, man. The ones that Puma was the main
• 39:10
  dude over the Plaza, they hooked me up and Angel was like his
• 39:13
  runner, you know that one ate them tacos with man.
• 39:16
  I don't know, I thought they were solid.
• 39:18
  I just couldn't see him never double crossing them, so I
• 39:21
  couldn't see him being reprimanded.
• 39:22
  I don't know if it was other cartel violence or what happened
• 39:26
  to him, but they're no longer alive.
• 39:28
  When that gentleman approached you and when you approached him
• 39:32
  for for the pills, when the cartel member was got mad at the
• 39:38
  gentleman that was trying to do a dealing with you.
• 39:41
  And you know, I told you, you know, you belong to us now, even
• 39:45
  if something is like my new like that, what what he's saying is
• 39:49
  you can't do any type of criminal dealings with anybody
• 39:52
  else but us or you. Like if that guy was like, hey,
• 39:54
  do you want to smoke this joint or something like that?
• 39:57
  Is it the same kind of thing? Like you just can't do any
• 39:59
  criminal elements? What basically what was he
• 40:01
  saying to people that don't understand that?
• 40:03
  Yeah, he was saying, look, man, you come all this way, we've
• 40:06
  already bashed for you. You've been dealing with this,
• 40:09
  now you're crossing the border to be with us.
• 40:11
  There's no sense for you to go to anyone else, man.
• 40:14
  But as we've got you, we're going to take care of you.
• 40:17
  That's what that was. And there there's obviously
• 40:20
  rival factions in Mexico. Yeah, and that's what he was
• 40:23
  thinking, You know, that I might, somebody might introduce
• 40:25
  themselves to me and maybe we could get them cheaper.
• 40:28
  You know, now I'm gone, you know, with the other people and
• 40:31
  they don't want to lose my business.
• 40:32
  Did you see any type of turmoil? No, I don't see any man.
• 40:36
  That was their area right there. What about with law enforcement?
• 40:40
  You hear a lot of situations with corrupt officials over
• 40:43
  there. Did you witness that?
• 40:44
  Yeah, one time I was there behind that poncho talking and
• 40:48
  he'd come around or say man, don't come around or stare or
• 40:51
  don't say nothing, I'll be right back.
• 40:52
  And then I was looking through a little bitty 2 ponchos together
• 40:55
  and there was 2 uniformed cops and they had two big boxes
• 40:59
  slapped full of money when they left.
• 41:01
  I watched them and then boxes with slap full of money, each
• 41:04
  one had a box, man. And I had to look real close to
• 41:07
  make sure I was seeing what I was seeing, man.
• 41:09
  It was stacks of money and then boxes all the way to the top.
• 41:12
  They're about this tall, about that wide because I had them
• 41:15
  like this. Yeah, two boxes slap full of
• 41:17
  money, man. And they just.
• 41:19
  Yeah, they're just coming there for about 10 minutes.
• 41:21
  They was laughing. I was burning up out here, man.
• 41:24
  I'm like, man, when they leaving now they're laughing.
• 41:27
  Great. You know what I'm saying?
• 41:28
  Somebody go to jail, take them go or something, you know?
• 41:32
  Now they're laughing, man. You know, I'm back here forever,
• 41:35
  you know, maybe they're going to get me.
• 41:37
  Who knows, man? Let's get this going so we can
• 41:40
  figure out where it's going to end up at.
• 41:41
  And walking off adding them. Big boxes of money, man.
• 41:44
  And were there cartel guys president?
• 41:47
  Yeah. Permanent was talking.
• 41:49
  To they were interacting. Yeah, but I couldn't see them
• 41:51
  because the way the the ponchos were here, I could only see that
• 41:54
  one of the police officers and like the elbow of the other one
• 41:57
  and then permanent was over here.
• 41:58
  I couldn't see that far. And you were you ever stopped by
• 42:02
  them like from when you got into Mexico, like was there ever a
• 42:06
  time where you encountered the federales or any type of?
• 42:08
  Law, when the federales there, everything was shut down.
• 42:11
  Like when I first crossed over into TJ, like there was a big
• 42:15
  circle and that's where the feds would have their big truck with
• 42:18
  her with the black mask on and submachine guns.
• 42:21
  And then if I walked down through Palma's area, I would
• 42:24
  just look over at him and he would just shake his head no.
• 42:27
  You know, I wouldn't even walk over there or nothing.
• 42:30
  And I already know, you know, I can't go there because the feds
• 42:33
  was there. We left that one day, man.
• 42:35
  They were there forever. We drove back to San Diego and
• 42:38
  then crossed over there. Finally gone.
• 42:40
  Yeah. And he, I went there and he's
• 42:41
  like, man, he's like, if they ever come here, man, you ever
• 42:44
  see him there, he's like, don't even come.
• 42:46
  Don't even stop through here and talk or nothing.
• 42:48
  He's like when the feds are here, we can't do nothing.
• 42:51
  So you just did your business and then left.
• 42:53
  You never stayed there. Obviously no watch the soccer
• 42:57
  game, but you did. You left.
• 42:58
  You never stayed. Short of the time, man, I went
• 43:00
  over and got them and that was it.
• 43:03
  I told my girl and we're over there, it's for business only.
• 43:06
  We cross back on the stage. You can do your little shopping
• 43:09
  or rodeo Dr. and all that stuff, man, but over here is for
• 43:12
  business. We're going to get them and get
• 43:14
  back across man fast. We can.
• 43:16
  Now you said you're like a rodeo Dr. things of that nature.
• 43:19
  Did you obviously with your girlfriend enjoy the luxuries of
• 43:24
  that and you were not here then. What were you doing?
• 43:27
  I was out there just spending money like it was nothing, you
• 43:29
  know, because when we get back, we're going to replenish it, you
• 43:33
  know, We got enough air of the supply, man.
• 43:35
  So we were just living however we wanted, man.
• 43:38
  Are you buying like the diamond, the diamond chain?
• 43:40
  No, no chain on end of the jewelry.
• 43:43
  Like what are you saying? Like like like the high end,
• 43:46
  like Versace or Gucci or like what?
• 43:48
  Like, Like what were you buying? Like Louis Vuitton, because we
• 43:52
  used to have Louis back in the day and stuff in the 80s and I
• 43:56
  was like, I like Louis Vuitton and stuff, but she liked to
• 43:59
  guess, oh, guess stuff my girl did.
• 44:02
  But we are just buying whatever she wanted.
• 44:04
  Man. I don't know how that girl spent
• 44:06
  money, man, because she never brought nothing home, you know?
• 44:09
  I don't know how it's possible. I'd give her four or $5000 in
• 44:12
  the morning. She'd be gone all day that night
• 44:15
  and just have two or three things in her hand and be like,
• 44:18
  Dang man, you know, talking about I need some more for
• 44:22
  tomorrow and stuff. And I'm like, what'd you spend
• 44:24
  on today, you know? But I didn't ask her that man,
• 44:27
  because she was bringing that stuff across the border and
• 44:29
  stuff, so I didn't care. Are you going out to lavish
• 44:32
  dinners? Like what?
• 44:33
  What's like give us give us like one of like the most opulent
• 44:36
  dinners that you had, like it just where you just went crazy
• 44:39
  or like a couple instances like. Yeah, Steak 48 in Beverly Hills.
• 44:44
  We ate pretty good that night. I like the environment, the
• 44:47
  atmosphere. Steak 48 in Beverly Hills.
• 44:50
  We got a, we got that big thing of oysters, man.
• 44:54
  I don't know how much those things were expensive though.
• 44:57
  It was like almost 300 something just for the oysters, man.
• 45:01
  But that bill was a pricey bill, you know?
• 45:04
  I'll go to places like that, man, and then just have fun.
• 45:08
  You know, when I go in those places, we're dressed so nice.
• 45:11
  Nobody can tell we're any different from these people that
• 45:14
  are important over here at the next table.
• 45:16
  They don't have no idea. I'm from Austin, Indiana, man,
• 45:18
  Unless I open my mouth and I hear my accent or something, or
• 45:21
  like, man, I don't know where that guy's from, but he's in
• 45:24
  here with us tonight, you know? So he's somebody or done
• 45:27
  something to being here with this.
• 45:29
  I feel, I mean, you're very relaxed, calm person, you know,
• 45:34
  you know, I think you have a good mindset with everything
• 45:36
  that you do. You move forward in the way that
• 45:39
  it's meaningful and it's going to be profitable in your.
• 45:41
  Eyes and it's. And I feel if maybe that with
• 45:44
  the flights didn't catch you, you probably could have just
• 45:46
  kept doing this. Never cross your mind like that.
• 45:49
  Yeah, I was really. I was going to.
• 45:51
  I was looking to put my money into something.
• 45:54
  I kept telling my girl we need to invest our money into
• 45:56
  something and go. Well, yeah, man.
• 45:58
  You know, we kept saying we're going to do it, but we just
• 46:01
  never did and stuff. And then it's just too late, you
• 46:04
  know? Once you're involved with like
• 46:06
  an organization like the cartel though, isn't it?
• 46:08
  You can't, are you allowed out? Like say you wanted to go and
• 46:11
  invest in something new, You know, I like a a regular
• 46:15
  business. Would they allow you to leave?
• 46:17
  Well, I wouldn't never tell them because they'd probably want in
• 46:19
  on it, you know, They're very greedy people, man.
• 46:22
  So I wouldn't never told them about my new business adventure.
• 46:26
  If I was going to get out, I don't know how I would have told
• 46:28
  them, you know, because they act like, you know, they was good
• 46:32
  with every decisions I've made. But they never probably expect
• 46:35
  me to come tell them I don't want to do it no more, you know?
• 46:39
  Do you think if that was the case, because everyone hear
• 46:42
  stories that you know, you're in till till death, do you think if
• 46:47
  you just stop going there, they kind of would like just chalk it
• 46:49
  up as a loss or they probably look for you also, you got
• 46:51
  people over here in Austin. Yeah, I think maybe they would
• 46:54
  have tried to get somebody to fill my shoes, you know?
• 46:56
  Hey, you can send somebody, you know, you know, down here, take
• 47:00
  your place and keep getting them.
• 47:02
  You know, I thought maybe I can be able to do that or something.
• 47:05
  It's very surprising to me when you describe your encounters
• 47:10
  over there with them. You hear all these stories on
• 47:13
  the news, right? You see all these things in the
• 47:15
  movies, right? It seems like it was very
• 47:19
  relaxed when you were there. You hear all these crazy
• 47:22
  stories, but like all your instances with them, there
• 47:25
  wasn't any crazy things going on, right?
• 47:27
  Like it wasn't as wild as as often times the media has
• 47:32
  portrayed certain events. Like, I mean, obviously they
• 47:36
  sensationalize things and that and the media wants to
• 47:38
  highlight, you know, an extreme example of violence with with
• 47:41
  cartels. But when you were there all
• 47:43
  those how, how many times? Total, were you over there 42?
• 47:47
  And there was nothing that scared you to where like I'm not
• 47:51
  this is. No, I'm done.
• 47:53
  Like I said about after the third time, man, it was just
• 47:55
  like coming to church on Sunday, you know?
• 47:59
  I'm like, I already know what to expect, you know, I know I'm
• 48:03
  going in here for, I know what's going to happen.
• 48:05
  So I'll just looked at it like that.
• 48:07
  Was their demeanor to you ever intimidating or were you always
• 48:11
  with? Was it always just very calm,
• 48:13
  like we're talking now? Yeah, basically how we're
• 48:15
  talking, I would try to crack a joke with.
• 48:17
  I mean, they see what kind of mindset they're in, you know,
• 48:20
  see if they're feeling jokingly or they got their mind on some
• 48:24
  serious stuff. I'd try to throw something in
• 48:26
  her funny to find out, you know, kind of test the atmosphere a
• 48:29
  little bit. How'd that work out?
• 48:32
  They just gave me like a stare, you know?
• 48:35
  What are you doing? Yeah.
• 48:36
  Yeah. Like man, come on now.
• 48:42
  There was some sort of, like, actual, like, you know, rapport
• 48:46
  going on. Yeah.
• 48:47
  Like it's like they weren't just like robots like you.
• 48:49
  Know, yeah, they, they was like, you know, man, not today, man.
• 48:52
  Maybe next month yeah. We got something happening, man,
• 48:55
  you know right, right. Yeah, they kind of, you know,
• 48:58
  like, man, come on, we're smarter than that.
• 49:00
  We're ahead of you, man. Right, right.
• 49:02
  Yeah. Did you guys ever have like in
• 49:05
  depth conversations about anything or?
• 49:07
  Soccer man. Really, man, He loves soccer.
• 49:10
  Did you watch? Soccer.
• 49:11
  Yeah, with him a couple of times while he was waiting on a dude
• 49:13
  on the bike. OK, but you weren't like a fan
• 49:16
  of like, no. OK, he's been that game.
• 49:19
  Whatever gets me a good deal, man.
• 49:21
  You know we've got to watch 2 Pigs right?
• 49:23
  Running across the road for a good deal with.
• 49:26
  Can you drop the price for me? Who you rooting for?
• 49:30
  That's who I like, man, that's odd, man.
• 49:33
  That's something like that. So you guys would be watching
• 49:36
  these games and he would be very like, like somebody watching
• 49:39
  Sunday football after church or something like that.
• 49:42
  You'd be very invested in it. You're just kind of like, all
• 49:45
  right, I'll go along with this watching this, right?
• 49:47
  But he'd be getting like, what would you talk about?
• 49:49
  Like the players or the team? Or even be like into, he'd be
• 49:52
  moving when the ball's moving and stuff, you know, in front of
• 49:55
  the TV like that. And I'd be like, Dang, you know,
• 49:57
  he really enjoys it. And that's when it's on me.
• 49:59
  Yeah. He's got a soccer, you know,
• 50:01
  soccer field man. When he when he went to see it,
• 50:04
  was it 2 actual soccer teams players?
• 50:06
  Yeah, they had two different uniforms and everything.
• 50:10
  Yeah, I don't know if they were, I don't think they're
• 50:12
  professional. I just think he had got, you
• 50:14
  know, some players together and they were had a real live team,
• 50:17
  original size soccer field, man. People stand on the sidelines
• 50:21
  and stuff. Yeah, I was going to say I would
• 50:24
  find it hard to believe in which a lot of people play soccer, but
• 50:26
  I mean, it didn't seem like you were a soccer guy to begin with,
• 50:29
  no. I hated that man.
• 50:31
  Man, here we go again. Freaking soccer time, man.
• 50:35
  It's soccer. It's all year round they got, I
• 50:37
  know teams and everything. Yeah, I'm confused sometimes.
• 50:39
  I don't. Sometimes I'll be walking.
• 50:41
  I could already see him moving in front of the TV and stuff.
• 50:45
  There he is. Soccer must be on.
• 50:48
  Yeah. How long were you like when
• 50:51
  you're just doing chilling out with him like in those events,
• 50:53
  Like how long are you there like hanging out with him?
• 50:56
  I have an hour because I would never bring my girl there.
• 50:59
  She would bring the money. I would have her a couple
• 51:01
  buildings down, you know, doing something.
• 51:03
  Yeah. So it always, man, I got my girl
• 51:06
  y'all. I gotta go, man.
• 51:08
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. OK.
• 51:09
  I got my girl, man. I gotta go, you know?
• 51:11
  OK, so you kind of that was premeditated.
• 51:14
  Yeah. I need my escape out.
• 51:15
  Yeah, I don't want to be tortured by.
• 51:18
  These. Yeah, I might have to go get a
• 51:20
  soccer ball or something. I need to get out of here.
• 51:23
  They might have me put on a uniform so.
• 51:26
  What's going on? Though, yeah, have me blowing
• 51:29
  the whistle and stuff, man.