Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.310: Ellen DeGeneres & Victoria Jackson are Redefining the meaning of Aging w/ Kind Science

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E.310: Ellen DeGeneres & Victoria Jackson are Redefining the meaning of Aging w/ Kind Science · Skin Anarchy

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• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: I am so excited to be talking about this line, but more importantly, just learning about her career because she is definitely a veteran in the beauty industry and founder of and CEO of Victoria Jackson Cosmetics, as well as now her new project as co-founder of Kind Science with Ellen DeGeneres.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome to the show, Victoria.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so honored to host you.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's an honor and a pleasure to be here.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you very much.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, no, it's the honor is mine.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love to get started by learning uh more about your career and just your journey in the beauty space.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know that, you know, like I said, you've definitely um, you know, created beautiful lines before.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love for you to tell us all about, you know, that whole experience and how everything led to kind science and just the whole, you know, the whole story.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's a big story, it's a long story, and I'll try to make it a fun story because it's been sort of an extraordinary career for me.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I started, you know, if you look at some of my early infomercials where I've been known as the queen of the infomercial, um, infomercials just started in the late 80s.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I had the first line that came out in an infomercial that, you know, everybody said you really can't sell products on television, you know, women need to see them and touch them and feel them.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I was like, no, I think there's a way that you can do it.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I was familiar with that way because I started my career as a makeup artist.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: And before I really even had the talent as a makeup artist, which was a learned skill for me, I just wasn't inherently the most uh blessed person to be able to just do these magnificent, you know, makeovers.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: I genuinely wanted women to help them look better and feel better about themselves.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so that was, you know, I just had passion around that.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I had passion around no makeup makeup, which originally which I really became and still own the the original trademark for no makeup makeup.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I went and I never found while I was a working makeup artist where I worked on gosh, hundreds of magazine covers, album covers, um, everything, a lot of our things that you would all see in in the print world, I never found a foundation, a base makeup that I felt was natural and this no makeup makeup, and was consistent with true skin tones.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, at the time, and you have to think about this, this was going back in the late 80s.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone was using things that were more pink undertones and orange undertones, and you know, even for darker skin tones, it was too ashy looking.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it was trying to create these shades, which ultimately I did light, medium, tan, and dark, these two shades, which it's hard to imagine, people thinking, wow, you covered the range of skin tones in this, and I did, um, in a foundation.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I was teaching at the same time my craft at UCLA at an extension class, and I was just getting great feedback.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: People loved the product.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I decided that the biggest piece that was also missing, which was beyond just having this foundation that I created, was women not knowing how to use things, you know, the how-to.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: They were intimidated.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I wanted women to see that, well, if I can do this, you can do this, and here's how.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so what I put together were these kits where it was how-to, these um really call them self-help video that took you through step by step how to do your makeup, whether it was two-minute, five-minute, ten-minute makeovers.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: And everything was put together in the kits peach, pink, and red, color-coordinated kits that the lipsticks and the eyeshadows, the blushes, I mean, everything was coordinated, where literally you opened the box, you popped in your DVD, you had a set of these cards that I had illustrated, beautiful cards that showed you, you know, how to make your lips bigger and you know, defining your cheekbones, and you slap it on your mirror, and you would be doing these makeovers.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I had great success.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: I did my very first infomercial in the late 80s, and I went on to do about a million dollars a week in sales.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I gosh, we got up to, I think at one point there was 22 um, 22,000 new customers every week.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was was kind of crazy.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this was when infomercials were just really beginning, and then so began what's been an extraordinary career for me.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's uh that's amazing to me.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: I actually have so much, you know, respect for that infomercial side of things that as you mentioned, because you know, many times I get this question a lot about, well, how can you market beauty via audio, you know, or just explaining a story.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, how why wouldn't you be able to?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, isn't that the whole point of beauty products?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: That you want to be able to, you know, connect with the person who's making them and connect with the story and and really understand why it's gonna work for you.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I've I that's amazing to me that you really pioneered this space.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's phenomenal.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: And what's great is now really time is catching up to where you know people are launching their brands all you know digitally.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you can very effectively connect with um the stories if done well, you know, the people that are creating the brands, um, the way in which, you know, you're seeing, you know, these skin fluencers, influencers, you know, the way products are shown.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they're really like mini infomercials.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously, with an infomercial at the time, it was pretty awesome.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: I had 30 minutes to tell a story and to show great makeovers.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I at the time wrote two books, which one was called Redefining Beauty, and that was in the early 2000.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that was really my kind of before and afters and how to.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: And the thing that was so important to me as I've gone along in my career was not only being able to show everybody how to do their makeup, and yes, how to, you know, look your best, and if you wanted those fuller lips or whatever, it just became now what are you gonna do?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as women, I was like, okay, I'll show you how to look a great and amazing, but now you have to go out and like conquer the planet or be the best you or you know, so I wrote another book called Make Up Your Life.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: And Make Up Your Life was a book that was really about what I call the power of mascara, how when you look better, you feel better, when you feel better about yourself, what you're able to accomplish in the world.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I really saw that truly come to life after going to the prisons where I went for 20 years.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: I went to the LA County Jail and Sybil Brand and I worked with women that, you know, as we would say, I would say, you know, what do you want your makeup to say?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: And they would say, I want my makeup to say pull over.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd go, okay, let's think about another message.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: How about look at me, you know, respect, respect me.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, it just put a whole nother face on it for me.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it became this talk that I would do called The Power of Mascara.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it really, I just saw it resonate whether I created that program and went on to work with um women undergoing, you know, very tough medical things and chemotherapy and you know, how they would see how they could at least through makeup, you know, see themselves a little bit differently and and take some control out of, you know, things that were uncontrollable at their in their life at the time.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: So my my range has been very diverse, but it's always been really as a goodwill ambassador for thinking about yourself and wanting the best for women and and men or whoever are using any of my products.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that's a very powerful message, you know.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think in the clutter that we see in this industry now, it's very hard to forget that message, right?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's hard to forget that makeup is a very empowering tool, you know, and really anything we put on our face, it can be this very, very powerful, you know, um tool to just lift you up or make your day better or just make you think differently about who you are.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that message and what you're you know explaining to us here, it's definitely gotten lost in translation at some point.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I look at so many influencers now and I think, well, you know, I think the idea of layering on 15, you know, layers of foundation is not exactly what, you know, body positivity should be about, right?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I I just don't get it.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't get where we got so like diverted from this overall central idea of well, it's supposed to and makeup and skincare, whatever it is that we're using is supposed to enhance who you are.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's supposed to make you feel confident in yourself.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, sometimes I see young women that are really propagating this idea or this notion of, well, more, just put on more, you know, until you feel beautiful.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it bothers me, you know, to see that.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I mean, I guess I look at it now as I have a perspective as somebody, you know, older and having been in the business a long time, and I see it like, you know, we all go through these cycles, right?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: So believe it or not, like no makeup, makeup's never really gone out of vogue, even even though I trademarked that in the late 80s.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, so I think as women, you know, age, hopefully they start to hear more messaging about being, you know, you start having a little bit more compassion for yourself and you don't feel like you have to wear the mask the same way.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: And it's okay too when you're younger, you know.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: Listen, I there was a time when I created my peach, pink, and red kits.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: The red kit was all about, you know, the gal that still wanted more glamour and was, you know, having more fun with it.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, but I agree with you in that you don't want to feel like you're wearing makeup, it's like a mask because then you're you're hiding behind something.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe there's a period in your time in your life where you're doing that, and you know, I'm much more forgiving about things now.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: I have more compassion with where we sit in the world and where so many young people sit in the world of this intersection of, you know, just the Instagrams and the Twitters and trying to keep up with everyone and all the plastic surgery we see.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it can it can be hard to find out and figure out who you are.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: And um, that's why to me, I'm always working to create products that um it's really about these are at least products that are gonna make sense, that are gonna work.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I'm all about ultimately, I really care about how much people are spending, and they should use ultimately what they love.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: I would love it to be kind science.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: I would love it to be Victoria Jackson when I was doing Victoria Jackson, but ultimately, you know, it's what gives you that sense of self to walk out the door and like take on the world and do some positive things.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, a hundred percent.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I completely, completely resonate with everything you just said.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: There is this, you know, this idea.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's for me, I'm I'm not gonna lie, for me, that's what makeup and and skincare product or whatever it is I'm using, that's what it's always been, is this way to like somehow make myself feel better, you know, in whatever moment I'm in, whether that's going out, whether that's going out for, you know, just work or just being at home.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: But as long as it's something that's making your day or your moment a little bit just, I guess, brighter, that's what matters, right?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so I completely agree with you.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's so phenomenal to me that you've really been behind, you know, this this message of just love yourself, you know, first and foremost and love and love what you put on your skin.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that really is what um I want to use that as a segue into talking about kind science because first of all, I love the name.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the the name for me means so much, you know, being a scientist myself, I've seen um the good and the bad when it comes to skin health and how we can use scientific principles to either enhance, you know, enhance our products or enhance the overall look and appearance.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I've also seen science gone bad, right?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love for you to talk to us about um obviously where the name kind of you know came from and then the journey, I guess, of creating this line.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, I always say you never know what is going to come up in life.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, you know, probably maybe close to 15 years ago, a friend of mine introduced me to Ellen, Ellen DeGeneres, and we both share a passion for, you know, decorating and houses and kind of a different sort of before and after.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: And um, as our friendship has grown over the years, and you know, as women getting older and but still being women that are very like we we want to be very true to who we are.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: We both genuinely really care about women, you know, she's been doing what she's been doing, my goodness, for you know, almost on air 19 years and looking out at the audiences and having to see how she was, you know, you get to see yourself aging.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we have our the whole line is all about age positivity, uh, not anti-aging.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're glad we're aging, but you still want to look the best you can look.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I think she was always, we'd always talk about, you know, finding the products, like what are we using, what do we love, where do we think we could be helpful?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so we decided to create this line called kind science.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, obviously I have formulated over 600 products, so I wanted to take that experience and the fact that I've had the longevity that I have in my career and being in this business, and she's very much about kindness, and we all, even myself, like you, I've always tried to be a kind person and a good person and put that out in the world, and then combine the science.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: So the science is really combined with being kind to the pillars, which we talk about, eco-kind, kind to the planet, animal kind, obviously, no animal testing and all the things that are so important to Ellen and skin kind, you know, really being about getting this really you know, we performed clinicals to make sure nothing we were going to put out ultimately, it had to perform, it had to make a difference in your skin.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: So um, that was what was really important, and those that was sort of our true north and the guiding light for this line.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: So um we went to work and you know, I was in the labs and created these seven products and the system that I think is really great.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it's combined with the botanicals, which are it wasn't about any one ingredient, right?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: It was about finding the best botanicals combined and activated by the science, which is unique peptides, amino acids, proteins, these very unique complexes that we would activate and marry with botanicals.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: So when you're doing hydration cream, for example, I'm very much about every the thing that people should understand when you're a formulator and you go into a lab, you can decide how you're gonna make the product.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Are you going to what kind of textures are you gonna use?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Is it something that's a heavier, thicker base?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Is it something that's gonna feel really light and you know absorb very quickly into the skin?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: You get to make all these decisions of what you want it to feel like.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then you marry it with, in this case, what would be the right ingredient, the right botanical.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: So where you're putting in bucuchiol, which is like instead of retinol, you it's like a more nature's retinol, snow mushroom.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's a plant that it maintains its weight and water like a thousand times.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's ultra moisturizing.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: So all of that was thought about, and that was went into kind science, which are these seven products that really, as I said, are built on these three pillars.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I I think they're great.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, they are great.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've tried it myself and I am a huge fan, actually.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you guys kind of off the bat created a neck cream.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: I actually wanted to say that to you is that I love that the line has kind of thought ahead, you know, of its time and and thought about how the neck area, especially as we, you know, we grow older, we age, like, you know, that's one of the first places we see signs of aging.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's okay.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, to make products that are really designed to help, you know, nourish that area, the thinner uh skin or on the neck that we notice, that's huge to me because you know, most brands, you know, you're gonna get your serum or a moisturizer or an eye cream, but you're not gonna see this like, you know, real understanding of you know, what is aging and where where do we need to target things?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's like you said, it's not about anti-aging, it's aging well.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: And part of aging well is targeting things in a preventative way.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: And one of those things, I think a hallmark has to be a good neck cream at this point, you know, in in product lines.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love for you to talk about that.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that specific product.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, how was that from the start that you had that in mind, or was it like later on that you added it on?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, no, no, no.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: It was right from the start.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: But also, I think there's nothing that frustrates me more.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you were talking about things that frustrate you is like people thinking, oh, well, you know, Ellen and Victoria, I mean, they're older women.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess this line is for them.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it's for us, but it's also for younger people.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like when people look at me, they go, wow, you have good skin.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: I go, thank you.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, but I've been taking care of my skin since I'm younger, since a lot of the women that, you know, should be thinking about this line.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not just targeted, it's really targeted for like, you've got skin.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: This is a good line for you.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, really, it's you're never too young to be thinking about it.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, same thing with the neck treatment.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: So the neck treatment was something that has Bucuchiol and these power peptides and pro-vitamin, you know, B5, all of those things, you should be thinking about your neck and your, you know, your chest, your declote early on.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, because it's only going to keep aging, and why not do all the right things starting out early?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I think if anything, that's what um Ellen and I should be there representing, is just that these are things that you're never too young to think about.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: So all of all of the line, and it had to be true to products that we usually, you know, we use.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: So Ellen uses the micro exfoliant, which is super gentle.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: It has bamboo silk and it's like a volcanic sand that's super, super smooth.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: So there's nothing that's irritating to the skin.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: She likes to use one every day.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: I use it a couple times a week, you know.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, everybody's got to find their own rhythm and how you use things and how you layer the products, but it it really is a beautiful line and it's simple, and there's not too many steps because too many, too many steps, too many things to think about.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: But ultimately, there's lines that that are coming out and they've got a lot of steps, steps.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: And if that makes you feel good and you love it, then that's great too.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm so at a point in my life and in my in my career that I just want whatever gives women that feeling that allows them to feel good about who they are.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I completely understand what you're saying here.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really, you know, where I was trying to go with this idea of preventative measures that we can take.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think the beauty industry is a wonderful space, you know, in the sense that there's so much room for creative.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much room for like, you know, uh really kind of putting your vision out there and making something of it.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when it comes to skin health, we have obviously the dermatologists, we have, you know, the scientists, and then we have the influencers.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: But what no one's really talking about is this idea of, you know, like you said, you want to start early.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: You, there's no such thing as, oh, okay, I'm starting to get wrinkles or I'm starting to see uh signs of aging.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Now everything, you know, I want to start using the skincare and it's everything's gonna get better.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, like that's just not how any organ in our body responds.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's always about prevention.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Even if you look at something like your kidneys, your heart, your liver, what are you gonna wait till your, you know, one of those organs goes bad before you start eating healthier?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're gonna you're gonna want to do that from the beginning.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that, you know, what you've said here is it's a beautiful, beautiful message because, you know, when it comes to skin health, you should always be using things that are putting nutrients on the surface, topically on your skin, that are aiding it along.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's nothing wrong with that.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you had brought up the topic of um really kind of marrying the ingredients with these botanicals, right?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I really love that because botanicals have been proven to be uh the closest when it comes to mimicking our normal, you know, proteins that we create, as I'm sure you know, but also aiding along the process of collagen formation and the last information.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, it's it's definitely, you know, I can tell that you guys have really thought this out, you know, in terms of how you've created it.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you for that.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, so much of it.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, you know, you look at all, you know, when you're looking at different medicines.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: And because I also have worked with, you know, I like to think of, you know, my life has been in many parts, but I've worked with pharmaceutical companies as well and get just getting um strangely enough, um, because people think, what, you just got three drugs approved for autoimmune disease.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's another part of work that I do in a lab.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: But even as you look at, you know, working with pharmaceutical companies and you think about ancient medicines, whether you're looking at the traditional medicines or the Ayurvedics, I mean, so much of it is found in nature.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: So it's always going back to nature is a really good thing, and going back to what you're trying to achieve.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: And we found even with kind science, it was like something like 97% to 100% definitely felt a change in hydration in their skin.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: And even that alone, just to be able to say that, all of that now starts you back on that road to better skin health, to your skin just looking healthier, feeling better.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you do want to go put on your makeup, and yes, I'm all about the no makeup makeup, but if you're about to go and and you know do a whole kind of underpainting of makeup and you know, doing a very high glam look, it's gonna look better the better your skin looks.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I was gonna say, like on the topic of makeup, um, the firming serum is like one of my favorite products at this point, by the way.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Just because I love skincare that I can wear.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I don't use it like directly under my makeup, but I'll wear it as like my main serum.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it helps me a lot because with um with you know, skin of color, one of our biggest problems is texture.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And textured skin is extremely difficult, as I'm sure you know way better than I do when it comes to makeup application.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I use the serum, it really helps me a lot in terms of I don't have to, you know, really put on a lot of makeup, but what I do put on, it's not gonna look bumpy or like, you know, out of place.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it also actually helps me a lot with like the movement of my makeup throughout the day.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how it does that, but it I've definitely noticed that as a big difference.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, and you definitely because you want to make sure that whatever you're using, it's not gonna pill.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: And what's great about the firming syrup, it's got kangaroo flour, and kangaroo flour is a plant that it boosts vitality and it supports more of your natural collagen production.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's got the power of peptides in there, it's got the hyaluronic acid, which you know is helping maintain moisture, the bucciol, which is that nature's, you know, retinol, which it really um, you know, it diminishes the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: So you mean you've got a lot of great stuff in there, and when you combine that, everything is meant to be either used alone or layered.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: I tend to like make up my own little mishmash in my hand, and that's my technical term, my little mishmash in my hand.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, and I use that, and that's how I apply everything.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, um, you know, you're adjusting based on the temperature you're gonna be in, and you know, so I I carry all the products with me, and then I'm just adjusting and using them however feels like my face needs during the day.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I really like that idea of um the you know, combining the products together because I do the same thing, and I always tell people, and you know, maybe you can like back me up on this because I swear the best lines are gonna be the ones that don't pill up when you combine everything together.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you are using skincare lines and they're causing that pilling that um Victoria is talking about, most likely something's going on with the chemical formula that's just not complementary with everything else.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's something I use almost as almost like a hallmark of like good formulation.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's it's like when I notice that, I'm like, okay, this was done well.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, whoever like was the real chemist behind this, like this was formulated very well.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I can definitely um, you know, I've done the same thing with kind science and it works really well to just combine all the products together.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: And you're right.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's and hopefully a good formulator um in the lab is looking at that, is using everything together, is then incorporating with, okay, so if I use this, uh, how's this gonna go if I'm using a cream blush or a powder blush or my uh a liquid foundation or a stick foundation?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, so I'm always putting myself in the shoes of the woman, the consumer, whoever it is that's gonna be using the product.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I think about how it's gonna be used in conjunction with the skincare and the makeup, how they're gonna work together.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I think, you know, there's there's a lot of thinking that you goes on in a lab and in testing and then getting feedback.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we worked on this line for a couple of years before it came out.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't a couple of weeks or months, it was a couple of years, and making sure that the clinicals could support the brand and the claims that we wanted to be able to make.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and really, you know, doing something that we felt good about as a team, that we knew like, because I, you know, I'm very lucky.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: I live a blessed, amazing life.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: And we didn't want to just, we're not just doing this, you know, to make money.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, of course, that's great.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: But you also want to knowing the world we live in now, and you know, women don't have people don't have the what they used to call disposable income.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: And there's really nothing too disposable right now.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: So you want to make sure that if somebody's buying it, you know, they're gonna get something that's gonna work for them.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a that's a huge point, and I'm so glad that you brought that up because you know, in the world of like skincare or makeup made by like a lot of celebrities, a lot of things are really overpriced.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm always like, you know, people buy things and they're like, oh, well, this is gonna, you know, be the next big thing in my routine.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like you're splurging on a lot of products that you don't need to spend that much on.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: And for you and Ellen to come out with a line that is high quality, it's got everything you need, and then make it make the price point so accessible.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's huge.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really, really like huge thing.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I and thank you for doing that, you know, and not being the typical celebrity line that's just way too expensive for the average consumer.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, that was very important to us.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I as I said, that's something that's been true for me, that I've stayed true to that even when I had my own cosmetic line.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because I I was always so in touch and informed with women that would write letters to me that, you know, were working two or three jobs to be able to afford my makeup kits at the time.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, um you you really want to think about what that price point's gonna be, knowing that it's it can be hard for people.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, ultimately everybody has to do what feels right for them.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I that's why I much more people are like, gosh, you seem to embrace all different lines and things.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I I do because ultimately the bigger message for me is what makes women feel good about themselves.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: And if they feel better because they've used that$400 cream or whatever, there you go.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna sit in judgment of that.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think you need to, but if that makes them feel better and they love it, more power to you.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Go for it, you know.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, but I just wanted to create something that, you know, most women don't have that kind of money to do it.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I felt and know from where I sit as a formulator that I could offer all of that just because something's more expensive doesn't mean it's better.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: It can, but it doesn't always mean that it is.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: I 100% agree with you.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, especially in the world of science and chemistry, there's only so many ways we know right now how to formulate certain things.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something I tried to put out there in this um podcast is that you know, science has its limits.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you come across brands that are just they're claiming to basically fix your life with a product, it's most likely hype and marketing.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can't like as consumers, I every day I watch consumers fall into this trap of, you know, you had mentioned like the$400 cream.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I agree with you, if it makes you feel good, go for it.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: But don't, you know, it's one of my biggest pet peeves is uh is this you know idea of these brands being like, well, this is the new revolutionary way that you're never gonna have wrinkles again.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I really just despise in this industry is this idea of just, well, you know, tell everybody to get rid of their signs of aging just completely, you know, you never want to age.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what, you know, I just really hate that.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: And people have been monetizing on it for decades now, you know, and it drives me freaking nuts because even from if you take the marketing out and put the science in only, science doesn't support anti-aging, it just does not support it, you know.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: So for people to spend their money, one, that's a problem.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Two, it's a huge problem that, you know, uh big marketing budgets and stuff have been dedicated to this concept.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I would actually love for you to speak a little bit more about the idea because I know that, you know, even on the website, if for everyone listening, if you go to the website um and just read the message, you know, about the the line, which by the way, the website is kindsciencebeauty.com and you read about how, you know, like you said, Victoria, it's not you guys are not about this anti-aging concept.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: You guys are about the aging well concept.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it really kind of sums it up there is this notion of you want to help your body.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to be like erasing the signs of age.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know, age is a hallmark of all the you know trials and tribulations and the war that you've gone through in your life.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's a beautiful thing.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love for you to speak a little bit more about that.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think obviously we very much um embrace age positivity, you know.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: And let's face it, we've all just come out of COVID.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: And well, I can't even say come out of it.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's still in our lives.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a lot of people who didn't get to age.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: So we embrace aging and you know, looking the I've always been about looking the best that you can look.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: And you have to have realistic expectations, as you're saying, about skincare in general and science.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's a reason too that you know, people do Botox, people do fillers.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, you will have different results after you've used Botox.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not, you know, I'm I'm of the whether you use Botox or you use fillers, it's not for me to judge whether, you know, you should just embrace yourself and not use any of that.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think I had much more, I will tell you, of that thinking when I was younger because I wasn't there yet.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then as I got older, gosh, I'd be lying if I didn't say I've used Botox from time to time because I have.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not one to sit in judgment of people about that.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I just want to be honest about it.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, um, but you know, there's limits to what science and skincare is gonna do too.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: But can it make a difference?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: Will it make a difference?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it will.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it's very important to embrace who you are and go, okay, you know what?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, you're still gonna have some of those laugh lines, you're gonna have some of those creases around your eyes.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's okay.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's an okay thing, you know, like be okay with it.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: But for the people that aren't, okay.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, everybody's gotta kind of walk their own path, they've got to map out their own skincare, they've got to figure it out.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I I just know so much where I'm coming from now is at such a different point in my life having been through this cycle of you know, all the different things.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I have I do have faith, even though I know it can be so frustrating, as you're saying, you know, women are gonna find their way.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: They really are.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: But ultimately, ultimately, you know, you do get to a place where you just feel like you embrace things in a different way, you think about them differently, you use your products differently.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that, you know, happens at different times and different ways in different places and spaces and people's lives.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: But um I I have seen it, I've lived it, I've experienced it, I've worked with so many women, and there's a lot of young women that are finding that um earlier and earlier on as well.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I I I kind of have a very positive sense about all that.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, you know, I always say that when it comes to just understanding, you know, how to come into yourself, you have to learn from those that have gone before you and they've gone through, you know, a lot more in life and and seen more.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, me uh, for example, I I speak about this with my with my family or you know, my colleagues that might be older, like, you know, even in medicine.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: And we always talk about this is that there needs to be an understanding, I think, even in the younger generation, that you know, you have to learn from people who know, right?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I see a line, like I see when I see people like you and Alan coming out with this line that's really promoting this love for aging and this love for just being who you are and embracing the changes you go through, that's for me, it's beautiful because it for women and especially young women, there are so many things, as I'm sure you know, in social media, in their life, their friends, whatever, that's like, well, you have to be, you know, the prettiest girl, or you have to be this way, or you have to look exactly like this person.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very detrimental.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I've also seen them being targeted because of that.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: So when it comes to like teaching younger generations, like I think, you know, this is a very important concept of embracing your changes in your life, you know.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I when I saw the line in the beginning, that really resonated with me that this message was being put out there.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, this is so Ellen, because Ellen's like, I'm I could you not like every time I've watched her, you know, whether it's on her show or any interview, it's always been like she resonates with this idea of like just, you know, just love who you are and just you know, be who you are.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that you guys both have just created just that entire essence, I think, in this line.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: So really, really hats off to you.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, we're very excited about it.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: And listen, I appreciate you taking the time and and you know, helping us give some voice to that.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I I just I'm always telling women, hey, try it.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't love it, send it back, you know, use what works.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm very, you know, maybe too chill about it, but that's just reality.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: When you, you know, you know so many women, and you know, we all open up our travel bags or our makeup bags, and we've just got all the different product lines and different things.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's just about trying different things and figuring it out.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, uh people were using my foundation when I Victoria Jackson, I mean, I think it was like close to 40 years that I, you know, women just using that one product.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes you hit it right on, and people just are gonna love that.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I just say, hey, try it.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're very grateful.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: Ellen and I feel very, you know, honest and authentic about the line, and we know it's great.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: So hopefully, you know, podcasts like this and you giving voice to it as well help us.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: So we're grateful.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very grateful.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for the honor of um coming onto the show and telling us all about kind science.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's been truly lovely chatting with you.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um, if Ellen is listening, Ellen, I'm literally like one of your biggest fans ever.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for this opportunity as well.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I I can't thank you enough, Victoria.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: This has been so lovely.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: My pleasure.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sure she thinks you're back and she will be listening.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, everyone listening out there, definitely go check out the line.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, the website is kindsciencebeauty.com, and you can go check out the whole range.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I will be tagging everything in the concept art for this episode.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: So definitely leave us your comments, feedback, questions.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'll definitely pass them along to Victoria's team.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you so much for tuning in.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: All right, thank you.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: All right, hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 40:22
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• 40:27
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• 40:30
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• 40:33
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• 40:36
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• 40:44
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• 40:52
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• 40:55
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• 41:00
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• 41:01
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• 41:05
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• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 41:15
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• 41:22
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• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.