Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Idaho Student Murders: White Elantra - Clues From 'Murder Car?'

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Idaho Student Murders: White Elantra - Clues From 'Murder Car?' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Four University Idaho students found
0:15
Speaker 1: slaughtered in their beds. We think as at least some
0:20
Speaker 1: of them slept in the last hours, critical video surveillance
0:27
Speaker 1: footage emerges. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
0:32
Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation and
0:34
Speaker 1: series XM one eleven. First of all, take a listen
0:37
Speaker 1: to our friends at crime online dot Com. Detectives collected
0:41
Speaker 1: eight hours of surveillance video Tuesday morning from a gas
0:44
Speaker 1: station in Moscow, where a clerk saw white sedan passing
0:47
Speaker 1: by at three forty five am on the night of
0:50
Speaker 1: the unsolved stabbing Dutson four University of Idaho students. An
0:53
Speaker 1: overnight assistant manager told Fox News Digital that she's been
0:57
Speaker 1: reviewing the tapes a little bit at a time over
0:59
Speaker 1: the past few days, looking for clues. In her downtime
1:01
Speaker 1: on the graveyard shift, she said she was not working
1:04
Speaker 1: on the night of the murders Monday night. She said
1:06
Speaker 1: she reached the three o'clock hour and spotted the car.
1:09
Speaker 1: The car drove by real quick, she said, and then
1:11
Speaker 1: it turned down a side street off Highway eight. She said.
1:14
Speaker 1: She took a picture of the screen and sent it
1:16
Speaker 1: to an email address police have set up to receive tips,
1:18
Speaker 1: and a few hours later detectives gathered up the footage.
1:22
Speaker 1: You know what, I hate people that say I told
1:25
Speaker 1: you so. I hate that I tried never to say
1:28
Speaker 1: I told you so. Got an all star panel at first,
1:32
Speaker 1: I've got to go to Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert, founder
1:36
Speaker 1: of Coldcase Research Institute. She's at coldcasecrimes dot org. We
1:41
Speaker 1: fought in the trenches. I as a prosecutor. She is
1:44
Speaker 1: a forensic expert for ten years and more. Cheryl, how
1:50
Speaker 1: many times have I screamed, look for a video? Remember
1:57
Speaker 1: when this became pertinent in the alex Or Our case
2:00
Speaker 1: when a strange stranger shot him in the head on
2:04
Speaker 1: a rural road. And I said, there's gonna be no
2:07
Speaker 1: video footage on that rural road. But what about the
2:09
Speaker 1: turn ends to get to the rural road. Sure enough,
2:14
Speaker 1: I believe it was an Ebenezer Baptist church sitting right
2:17
Speaker 1: there at the turn end with the camera front and center.
2:21
Speaker 1: And here, yeah, I had to get a gas station
2:25
Speaker 1: Clark to find the video of the Alantra. Really, here's
2:33
Speaker 1: this girl, this woman in her spare time coming through
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Speaker 1: video and she basically has to deliver it on a
2:39
Speaker 1: Christmas tree. I mean, just, thank god we've got the video, Cheryl,
2:43
Speaker 1: thank god we've got the video. But Nancy even more
2:45
Speaker 1: specific on your show. I even said, I'm looking at
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Speaker 1: the camera right now on my phone, I can see
2:52
Speaker 1: the gas station. Yeah you did. I mean, should we
2:56
Speaker 1: just you know what, we should start downloading crime stories
2:59
Speaker 1: and uploading it onto their onto the FBI website for
3:03
Speaker 1: a peace sake, guys. Not only do I have Cheryl
3:05
Speaker 1: McCollum with me, just I'm gonna go one by one
3:08
Speaker 1: as I go to them. But guys, remember, as I
3:10
Speaker 1: tell you over and over, I'm not your schoolmarm. This
3:14
Speaker 1: ain't high Tea at windsor Castle. Jump in if you
3:17
Speaker 1: have an idea. Clearly the police need them. They need
3:21
Speaker 1: every idea they can get. And I'm not suggesting they're
3:25
Speaker 1: not good. They're fine. But the more people thinking and
3:29
Speaker 1: analyzing the better. I want to go now to my
3:33
Speaker 1: new friend Chris mcdonnah, and I believe his wife somebody
3:36
Speaker 1: he keeps calling honey on the video that he has
3:39
Speaker 1: and the interview room, and it is I've spent way
3:44
Speaker 1: too much time on the interview room. He's director at
3:47
Speaker 1: the Coalcase Foundation. Former homicide detective. You can find him
3:51
Speaker 1: Coalcase Foundation dot org. Chris mcdonnah, question and Fox Nation,
3:57
Speaker 1: if you could show that video that we're talking about
4:00
Speaker 1: that was obtained from the gas station. In your video,
4:04
Speaker 1: you are driving up very slowly the main street there
4:08
Speaker 1: in Moscow and you turn left, as I recall, at
4:11
Speaker 1: a gas station. Is that the gas station or is
4:14
Speaker 1: it a that is the gas station? No, No, that's
4:16
Speaker 1: not the right one. That's not the right one. No
4:19
Speaker 1: it is. It is actually on another approach, Nancy, into
4:25
Speaker 1: that area, meaning from the main ninety five. So there
4:30
Speaker 1: is a way around that A ANDW down at the
4:34
Speaker 1: corner there, yes, is on the video right, and the
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Speaker 1: gas station that this vehicle is seen is approximately one
4:41
Speaker 1: mile away as a crow flies to the house, and
4:45
Speaker 1: there is a way, a back way to get into
4:49
Speaker 1: the student campus area. But once you're on that main
4:55
Speaker 1: road there, Taylor, you're stuck. It's one way in and
4:59
Speaker 1: one way out. Let me let me just digest what
5:01
Speaker 1: you're saying. Because tailor, I don't know how it starts,
5:05
Speaker 1: but it turns into something that almost looks like an
5:08
Speaker 1: alley and it goes up between houses, which, as you
5:12
Speaker 1: point out, those houses do not have video surveillance on them,
5:16
Speaker 1: as you were looking for any other cinder blocks in
5:18
Speaker 1: your video, and you go up Tailor and there's the house,
5:21
Speaker 1: the front entrance, Jackie right there. So you're telling me
5:25
Speaker 1: this car speeding by, it was going to a pretty
5:28
Speaker 1: good clip. The white Hyundai Elantra in question is speeding
5:34
Speaker 1: by one mile from eleven twenty two eleven twenty two King,
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Speaker 1: which is the murder house, one mile as the crow
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Speaker 1: flies at three forty five am right, and the video
5:47
Speaker 1: you can't I couldn't tell personally if the vehicles leaving
5:51
Speaker 1: or coming towards the area. And the challenge with that
5:56
Speaker 1: vehicle though, is whence it gets up onto King Street
6:00
Speaker 1: where eleven twenty two is. They have to go up
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Speaker 1: that road there and around that building and back down
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Speaker 1: the side of the house and then come either park
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Speaker 1: on that street or park in that parking lot behind
6:14
Speaker 1: the house, or park in the parking lot next to
6:19
Speaker 1: the apartment complex. Exactly. You know, I've argued to jury's
6:23
Speaker 1: many a time. I'm going to throw this to IRV Brandt,
6:26
Speaker 1: Senior Inspector US Marshall Service International Chief Inspector d J.
6:32
Speaker 1: It goes on and on brand new book coming out,
6:34
Speaker 1: Solo Shot. It'll be on Amazon in January. Author of
6:39
Speaker 1: Flying Solo Top of the World, IRV Brandt as I
6:43
Speaker 1: have argued to Minia jury, nothing good happens after midnight.
6:48
Speaker 1: This is three forty five am. What is this car
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Speaker 1: doing speeding? We think from the murder house at the
6:56
Speaker 1: time of the murders. The murders are placed between three
6:59
Speaker 1: and four am. Oh, that's correct, Nancy. You'd be able
7:03
Speaker 1: to narrow down the reasons fairly quickly as to why
7:07
Speaker 1: a car would be going specifically into that neighborhood. Like
7:12
Speaker 1: you said, there's one way in, one way out. It's
7:15
Speaker 1: not like they were going somewhere else. They were heading
7:17
Speaker 1: into that neighborhood for a reason. So it's imperative that
7:21
Speaker 1: they identify that vehicle and the people that were in it.
7:25
Speaker 1: We have looked very carefully at all of the homes,
7:29
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of them. You can't really
7:31
Speaker 1: tell from the picture we keep seeing on TV. There
7:36
Speaker 1: it's very congested, very crowded. It's student housing on top
7:41
Speaker 1: of student housing, and it's almost like an alley driving
7:46
Speaker 1: up King especially when you add in ice and snow,
7:51
Speaker 1: very difficult to get up and down that hill without
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Speaker 1: a four wheel drive. Alantras that June Lantra does not
7:59
Speaker 1: have a four wheel drive. But there is a parking lot.
8:03
Speaker 1: You go past the house and up around and then
8:05
Speaker 1: there is actually a parking area in the back of
8:09
Speaker 1: the house and above the house. You're going up an
8:13
Speaker 1: incline and if you were parked there you could easily
8:19
Speaker 1: come down. I'm just wondering could the car have been
8:22
Speaker 1: parked there? Right now, we're talking about the video surveillance.
8:26
Speaker 1: Joining me Stephanie Pogonis, crime reporter Fox News Digital on
8:30
Speaker 1: the case from the get go. Stephanie, tell me you've
8:33
Speaker 1: looked at the video. We've all looked at it, but
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Speaker 1: please describe it for our listeners and viewers right now.
8:38
Speaker 1: That's correct, Nancy, And just going back to what you
8:40
Speaker 1: said quickly, Yes, it is easily. It is easy to
8:43
Speaker 1: access this home from behind it. There is a road
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Speaker 1: immediately behind the home named Willenta Drive. I personally was
8:51
Speaker 1: there and I parked there and you can see this
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Speaker 1: crime scene from Willenta Drive. Now, going back to this video, Yes,
8:58
Speaker 1: this woman says she actually examined the video hour by hour,
9:02
Speaker 1: bit by bit, and when she finally got to the
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Speaker 1: three o'clock hour, she was able to spot this white vehicle.
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Speaker 1: Police were able to recover eight hours of that footage.
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Speaker 1: It shows this vehicle near eight o two Troy Road.
9:17
Speaker 1: This is about one point two miles, not as the
9:20
Speaker 1: crow flies that's in a car one point two miles,
9:23
Speaker 1: but yes, approximately one mile. Now, I just want to
9:27
Speaker 1: emphasize here, and I know that Chris knows this from
9:29
Speaker 1: being there as well, but Moscow is very it's small.
9:34
Speaker 1: You know, you can probably count on two hands how
9:37
Speaker 1: many gas stations there are Troy Roads. It is very
9:42
Speaker 1: close to Taylor Avenue. Actually Taylor Avenue turns into Steiner Avenue,
9:47
Speaker 1: which is the intersection near where this gas station is located.
9:51
Speaker 1: So about a mile from the home. The car is
9:54
Speaker 1: flying like a bat out of hell. And I heard
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Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnaugh that it turned down a side street near
10:01
Speaker 1: Highway eight. What does that mean to you? Was it
10:04
Speaker 1: getting on Highway eight? Yeah? Where those are They could
10:07
Speaker 1: obviously be evasive tactics of some sort. But what's really
10:11
Speaker 1: interesting is we have, you know, the police when they're
10:15
Speaker 1: first there and they're processing the scene, as you know,
10:18
Speaker 1: Nancy out in front, they're measuring, you know, what appears
10:22
Speaker 1: to be some type of tire marks on the pavement
10:25
Speaker 1: as well as the house. If you're standing looking right
10:29
Speaker 1: at the house to the right, that blue house, some
10:34
Speaker 1: of the early footage you see a webcam in the
10:38
Speaker 1: exterior porch light, and then later footage you see that
10:43
Speaker 1: that camera has been taken and you see I saw
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Speaker 1: one news report where there was an officer coming out
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Speaker 1: of that house and that camera's gone. So I'm supposing
10:54
Speaker 1: or you know, thinking that they gathered that footage and
10:58
Speaker 1: maybe that vehicle would have been seen leaving that particular area.
11:02
Speaker 1: Question you again, where was that camera? Where again was
11:06
Speaker 1: that camera? Chris? You know it was screwed into the
11:09
Speaker 1: porch light. You know, it's one of those webcams. Yeah,
11:12
Speaker 1: that you know, and it was screwed into the porchlight.
11:15
Speaker 1: But when you go back and look at some footage,
11:17
Speaker 1: you'll see that it's missing. But you'll see it initially
11:20
Speaker 1: there what house. It's the house to the right of
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Speaker 1: If you're standing in front of the target house in
11:27
Speaker 1: even twenty two, it's the immediate house to the right.
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Speaker 1: I think it's blue yeah, yeah, I saw that. Take
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Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at Fox News. Fox News
11:36
Speaker 1: learning this afternoon that investigators have also collected hours of
11:39
Speaker 1: video evidence from a nearby gas station that's only about
11:42
Speaker 1: a half a mile from the murder scene. We've been
11:45
Speaker 1: trying to use those videos to garner a new information.
11:49
Speaker 1: As you can imagine, there's hours and hours and hours
11:52
Speaker 1: of videos, so it does take a lot of time.
11:55
Speaker 1: As police combed through that video from at least two
11:58
Speaker 1: local businesses. We're learning more were about some of this
12:01
Speaker 1: other DNA evidence in that car they're looking for to
12:03
Speaker 1: and we know the front door of this home was
12:05
Speaker 1: left open, according to a neighbor, for hours before police
12:07
Speaker 1: were ever called. Time Stories with Nancy Grace with me
12:26
Speaker 1: guys Del Carson, high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville. And
12:29
Speaker 1: as much as I respect his legal acumen, he's here
12:32
Speaker 1: because his former FBI agent, former police officer in Miami.
12:36
Speaker 1: Day author of Arrest Proof Yourself. Don't like that, but
12:40
Speaker 1: you can find him at Dell Carson Law dot com.
12:42
Speaker 1: Jump in deal. Yeah, Ancy, we were talking earlier about
12:45
Speaker 1: going up behind the house and that little hillock there
12:48
Speaker 1: where this white car may have parked and someone earlier
12:51
Speaker 1: said that they had been there, and you can see
12:53
Speaker 1: the back of the house. We've talked about this before. Yeah,
12:57
Speaker 1: that little area, that wooded area is so critical. Yeah,
13:00
Speaker 1: and every person who's investigating case, like myself, has gone
13:05
Speaker 1: into a house and found a wallet from the perpetrator
13:08
Speaker 1: in a burglary. I don't understand why they haven't removed
13:12
Speaker 1: all the surface dirt and screened through all that material.
13:16
Speaker 1: There's no telling what you might find connected directly to
13:19
Speaker 1: do well. I do know that it's been cordoned off
13:21
Speaker 1: the crime scene tape now. I noticed that originally there
13:25
Speaker 1: was one round of crime scene tape, and I think
13:28
Speaker 1: they expanded the area because you can see two links
13:32
Speaker 1: of crime scene tape, one encompassing the first crime scene tape.
13:37
Speaker 1: I agree, everything needs to be combed over with a
13:40
Speaker 1: fine tooth comb. Just behind that house, on that steep incline,
13:45
Speaker 1: that deal Carson is talking about. So we have a
13:49
Speaker 1: shot of the white Hyundai Elantra. I've looked at it.
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Speaker 1: Stephanie agree, disagree. You can't see who's driving it. I agree,
13:56
Speaker 1: I can't see who's driving it. Yeah, I tried, Believe me,
13:59
Speaker 1: I tried. That's not all that's happening. Take a listen
14:02
Speaker 1: to our cut one fifty five. Our friends over at
14:06
Speaker 1: Fox the Corner here in Idaho tells me that investigators
14:10
Speaker 1: did put paper bags on the victim's hands inside of
14:13
Speaker 1: the home before they moved the bodies, which is critical
14:16
Speaker 1: to preserve DNA evidence. The hands, Martha, are so important
14:19
Speaker 1: in this investigation because if these victims were able to
14:21
Speaker 1: try and fight off the killer, they could have that
14:24
Speaker 1: killer's DNA like their hair, skin, or blood underneath their fingernails,
14:29
Speaker 1: which is now being tested. That is, of course, I'm
14:32
Speaker 1: a JD, not an MD, and certainly not a medical examiner.
14:36
Speaker 1: That's medical examiner rule one. Bag the hands. I remember
14:41
Speaker 1: the first time my very first homicide victim, named Mary,
14:47
Speaker 1: she had her hands bagged. And they certainly did not
14:51
Speaker 1: teach me that in law school. And I said, when
14:54
Speaker 1: I went to go visit the medical examiner to make
14:56
Speaker 1: sense of what that medical report, the autopsy reports said,
15:00
Speaker 1: and so why are their bags on our hands? And
15:03
Speaker 1: he told me, with me right now to tell you.
15:06
Speaker 1: Doctor Priya Banerjee board certified forensic Pathologists, you can find
15:10
Speaker 1: her at anchor Forensic Pathology dot com. I'm not even
15:15
Speaker 1: going to ask her how many dead bodies she is analyzed?
15:17
Speaker 1: Doctor Priya? Why our hands bagged of murder victims? And
15:23
Speaker 1: why paper and not plastic? Yeah? I mean this is
15:29
Speaker 1: you know, I hope people listening to this can learn
15:31
Speaker 1: from it. First of all, I've done over three thousand
15:34
Speaker 1: autopsies and over one hundred and fifty homicide cases. And
15:38
Speaker 1: on top of that, you have to treat many cases
15:41
Speaker 1: as suspicious. And if you have an inkling that something
15:44
Speaker 1: may be awry, you bag the hands because all that
15:48
Speaker 1: does is it protects the hands and trace evidence if
15:51
Speaker 1: they fought back. You know, DNA's our friend now, right,
15:54
Speaker 1: we have so much to learn from DNA. You never
15:58
Speaker 1: know what little tidbit it can help you. And you
16:02
Speaker 1: don't want plastic because just like groceries, you know it
16:07
Speaker 1: doesn't breathe, right, you don't want moisture trapped in their
16:09
Speaker 1: moisture is not our friends when it comes to biological material.
16:13
Speaker 1: So you want nice paper bags, sandwich bags. They are
16:18
Speaker 1: cheap and easy. Everybody can get them. And what are
16:20
Speaker 1: you bag him? What are you tip him with? Rubber bands? String?
16:24
Speaker 1: Rubber bands actually is duct tape, but anything? Why do
16:27
Speaker 1: you need it? To breathe, doctor Preya, you don't want
16:29
Speaker 1: it getting moldy. You don't want evidence degrading. Moisture is
16:33
Speaker 1: not your friend. Water is not your friend. Plastics gonna
16:36
Speaker 1: get you know, condensation and trap that moisture and away
16:41
Speaker 1: goes your EVID. Yeah, you know, I was surprised to
16:44
Speaker 1: Stephanie Pagona is joining us. Hey, doctor Priya, you're a
16:48
Speaker 1: little too polite for crime stories. So I need you
16:54
Speaker 1: to just when you have an idea, just jump in
16:56
Speaker 1: and you too care out of you, Stephanie Pagonas. There
17:02
Speaker 1: was all there were all these headlines in the last
17:04
Speaker 1: let's just say, what would you say? Twelve hours hands
17:07
Speaker 1: were bagged and I thought they darn will better be bagged.
17:11
Speaker 1: I mean that shouldn't be Yeah, yeah, no it shouldn't.
17:17
Speaker 1: It'd be a headline if they weren't bagged, right, But
17:19
Speaker 1: that is s o P standard operating procedure. But I guess.
17:23
Speaker 1: Karen Stark U Karen start, New York psychologist, renowned in
17:27
Speaker 1: her field, joining US OUTE of Manhattan today. She's at
17:30
Speaker 1: Karen Stark dot com with a C. Karen. Sometimes I
17:34
Speaker 1: forget if I'm not here in the studio or on
17:37
Speaker 1: a crime scenor in court. Everybody doesn't see dead bodies
17:44
Speaker 1: all the time. Remember that was it in sixth sense.
17:48
Speaker 1: The little boy says, I see dead bodies and like
17:50
Speaker 1: me too, like all the time. So I guess when
17:54
Speaker 1: civilians or normi's as I call them, see a dead
17:58
Speaker 1: body with bags on the risk on the hands, you say, wow,
18:01
Speaker 1: why are their hands bag? That's not normal? It actually is.
18:05
Speaker 1: This is very disturbing to a lot of people. I
18:08
Speaker 1: can't even go to the grocery store the people without
18:10
Speaker 1: people asking what's happening in Idaho? So seeing hands baged
18:15
Speaker 1: would be something shocking to a lot of people. Karen,
18:17
Speaker 1: and hearing about it, and what that I was trying
18:20
Speaker 1: to say, and you just came to me just then,
18:24
Speaker 1: is that if you think about the parents, right, and
18:28
Speaker 1: they're going they're grieving, and they're hearing about hands that
18:33
Speaker 1: are tied, and they had this visual not only of
18:37
Speaker 1: what might have happened, but especially with Payley's dad who
18:42
Speaker 1: keeps talking about, you know, gorgeous that she had and
18:45
Speaker 1: now they're picturing their children with their hands tied, and
18:49
Speaker 1: it's just awful to have to keep thinking about not
18:55
Speaker 1: just what happened to your children, which I can't think
18:58
Speaker 1: of anything worse, right, you know that, Nancy. But in
19:02
Speaker 1: addition is details about one thing what's been done to them,
19:07
Speaker 1: how they look. It's just terrific. I think. From an investigator,
19:12
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh, I was just gonna say, yeah. I mean,
19:16
Speaker 1: you know, I get asked a lot how do I
19:18
Speaker 1: do my job? Because it is dealing with the most
19:22
Speaker 1: horrific things often, and you know, I think you have
19:26
Speaker 1: to step back because quote unquote normal to me every
19:30
Speaker 1: day doing my profession is you know, the opposite of normal, really,
19:35
Speaker 1: you know, And so I try to be as sensitive
19:38
Speaker 1: as I can when even delivering information because what we're
19:42
Speaker 1: talking about what rolls off our tongues, and especially me
19:46
Speaker 1: as a medical examiner, you know, I look at it
19:49
Speaker 1: as like I got to do my job, and if
19:51
Speaker 1: if I wasn't able to be tolerated, I couldn't do
19:55
Speaker 1: my job, you know, speaking of your job. Stephanie Pagans
19:59
Speaker 1: with US far News Digital, the coroner, who is not
20:03
Speaker 1: a medical examiner, is not a medical doctor. As a
20:07
Speaker 1: matter of fact, didn't she major in political science. She
20:11
Speaker 1: was a registered nurse somewhere and she got her law
20:15
Speaker 1: degree as a matter of fact, representing murderers. That's correct. Okay.
20:21
Speaker 1: I have a big problem with that ethical issue, but
20:24
Speaker 1: I'm not concerned about that today because I don't think
20:26
Speaker 1: it touches on who committed this quadruple murder. But I
20:30
Speaker 1: do think she should shut her pie hole. Now that's
20:33
Speaker 1: certainly not a technical legal term. But to you, Stephanie Pagunis.
20:37
Speaker 1: Now she has come out again and weighed in on
20:41
Speaker 1: toxicology reports of the victims. Yes, that's correct, And I
20:46
Speaker 1: just want to quickly, Nancy, go back to what we
20:48
Speaker 1: were talking about about the hands being bagged. I mean,
20:51
Speaker 1: not only is that typical in investigations like this from
20:55
Speaker 1: my understanding, but this is a case in which we
20:58
Speaker 1: were told at least some of these victims fought back,
21:02
Speaker 1: So that just gives you an even better idea of
21:05
Speaker 1: how much evidence might be on their bodies, on their
21:09
Speaker 1: extremities and under their fingertips. Now, yes, she is weighing
21:12
Speaker 1: in on the toxicology reports, which the results have not
21:16
Speaker 1: come back yet exactly. It's interesting because it seems to
21:19
Speaker 1: go back and forth. Sometimes sometimes she does choose to speak,
21:23
Speaker 1: in other times she chooses not to at all. So
21:25
Speaker 1: it seems it depends on the day. Nancy, I gotta
21:28
Speaker 1: get in here, I gotta get in here job. First
21:31
Speaker 1: of all, the hands being bagged and everything like that
21:34
Speaker 1: did not come from the corner. This came from their
21:37
Speaker 1: CSI people, And I want the families to understand great
21:41
Speaker 1: care was taken with that, and great professional technique was
21:45
Speaker 1: done there. And I would also want people to understand,
21:49
Speaker 1: I'm a promptly investigator. I'm not a first responder. I'm
21:54
Speaker 1: a last responder. The worst thing has happened, So every
21:59
Speaker 1: bit of evidence is going to go to those state
22:01
Speaker 1: crime lab or to a private lab is because of me.
22:04
Speaker 1: Those people did everything right to ensure that the evidence
22:09
Speaker 1: is going to be able to point to a perpetrator
22:12
Speaker 1: down the road. I'm so glad you said that, Cheryl,
22:15
Speaker 1: You're right jumping Chris No, Yeah, to dovetail into that thought,
22:19
Speaker 1: it's the bags are just one step in the evidence chain,
22:23
Speaker 1: as you know you presented under to these cases and trial.
22:27
Speaker 1: So the idea is once that bag is removed by
22:30
Speaker 1: the dock at the MME, that bag then gets rebagged
22:34
Speaker 1: and put into another bag and sent to the lab.
22:37
Speaker 1: And to the comment A moment ago, that's critical evidence
22:42
Speaker 1: that potentially could be sitting there. Take a listen. As
22:44
Speaker 1: Moscow Police, I want to let everybody know that we
22:46
Speaker 1: are still one hundred percent committed to solving this crime.
22:51
Speaker 1: There's a lot of information to sort through, and the
22:54
Speaker 1: information keeps coming in and not all of the information
22:59
Speaker 1: is relevant. But you don't know if a tip is
23:01
Speaker 1: valid until you take the time to examine that tip
23:05
Speaker 1: and see how it relates to other information that you
23:08
Speaker 1: might have. We have teams in Moscow, Salt Lake City,
23:12
Speaker 1: and in Virginia as well as other locations across the country,
23:16
Speaker 1: and we're prepared to do interviews and follow up on
23:19
Speaker 1: information at any point anywhere. Guys, there's more evidence floating
23:25
Speaker 1: around out there. Time stories with Nancy Grace. We said
23:46
Speaker 1: at the beginning, or I did, or Cheryl did, somebody
23:50
Speaker 1: did maybe it was you Dale. Social media could also
23:55
Speaker 1: hold a key to unlocking the misery of who old
24:00
Speaker 1: these four students. I don't know. They need an army
24:04
Speaker 1: of people to help solve this case, because you've got
24:08
Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of hours from a video from all
24:11
Speaker 1: over town that they're coming through and thank Heaven, this
24:14
Speaker 1: gas station clerk come through the video herself. But I
24:18
Speaker 1: also want to talk about somebody named frat anon. Frat
24:24
Speaker 1: anon in CB talk you call it his handle, it's
24:28
Speaker 1: his online persona. Joining you right now, Sydney Sumner, crimal
24:33
Speaker 1: line dot Com investigative reporter. She has been combing through
24:38
Speaker 1: social media. Now, remember, we don't know who frat anon is.
24:42
Speaker 1: For all I know, it's Jackie under the covers in
24:45
Speaker 1: bed at night making up a story. But it has
24:48
Speaker 1: when I put a witness on the stand, for instance,
24:51
Speaker 1: Del Carson, Cheryl McCollum, or jump in on this. When
24:54
Speaker 1: I put a witness on the stand, well, I do
24:56
Speaker 1: it Before I put them up on the stand. You
24:59
Speaker 1: look for details, a story rich in details, details that
25:03
Speaker 1: you can corroborate, which lends credibility to the witness. Agree, disagree? No,
25:09
Speaker 1: I agree, Nancy. But what you're looking at when you
25:12
Speaker 1: put them on the standards their potential credibility. Are they argumentative?
25:16
Speaker 1: Are they full of themselves? Are they narcissistic? And that
25:19
Speaker 1: really bears on credibility, Yeah, it really does. But what
25:23
Speaker 1: I'm talking about right now is we don't know the
25:25
Speaker 1: source of We don't know who frat anon is. But
25:31
Speaker 1: after reading what he's posting. It is very rich in
25:36
Speaker 1: corroborated detail. Okay, Sydney Summer, you're on what did you
25:41
Speaker 1: learn from combing through social media? Nancy? I found screenshots
25:45
Speaker 1: of a four Chan thread while combing through Twitter. Did
25:49
Speaker 1: you say a four chain thread? Four Chan? Four a
25:54
Speaker 1: n Okay. It's kind of like a board website, so
25:58
Speaker 1: anonymous people can all discuss similar interests. Right, and the
26:03
Speaker 1: Idaho Murders has a dedicated board. So on this board
26:07
Speaker 1: there's comments coming from one user that say, I don't
26:11
Speaker 1: know why you're referring to killer when it's killers plural
26:15
Speaker 1: because they've been planning it for a long time. And
26:19
Speaker 1: I believe this person. Frat Anon is a member of
26:24
Speaker 1: Sigma Kai at Idaho at the University of Idaho, and
26:30
Speaker 1: he is discussing a possible suspect referred to as DSL. Now,
26:36
Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, you and I know who DSL?
26:42
Speaker 1: Who we think DSL is. Let's just stick with DSL. Yes,
26:48
Speaker 1: what about the great likelihood it's not DSL? And where'd
26:52
Speaker 1: you wag in DSL through the metals? Just don't do that.
26:54
Speaker 1: But according to an on, we don't know who it is? Yes,
26:58
Speaker 1: has so many details about the Sigma Kai fraternity, people
27:03
Speaker 1: in the fraternity, events within the fraternity, even going back
27:07
Speaker 1: to Bishop Kelly, he referred to Bishop Kelly, we looked
27:12
Speaker 1: it up. It's a high school in Boise where we
27:15
Speaker 1: believe a group of the Sigma Kais went to high school.
27:19
Speaker 1: So what is the gist of what is being said
27:23
Speaker 1: by Fratt and on? Basically, this guy post that you
27:26
Speaker 1: can see the King Roadhouse from DSL Sigma Kai room. Okay,
27:31
Speaker 1: so that's identifying somebody that sleeps at Sigma Kai house,
27:36
Speaker 1: which is common in fraternity sorority houses. Some people sleep
27:40
Speaker 1: there and many do not. Okay, So someone that sleeps
27:44
Speaker 1: at Sigma Kai. And it goes on to say once
27:47
Speaker 1: that third floor light in the King Road House went off,
27:51
Speaker 1: they did it nineteen minutes total. Walk included the detail.
27:56
Speaker 1: Come then talked about this Duff. I'm using a Knifer
28:01
Speaker 1: word to replace what he actually said, talked about this
28:05
Speaker 1: stuff at Bishop Kelly and Sigma Kay DSL and E
28:10
Speaker 1: even got in a fight that night. Zanna X allegedly
28:15
Speaker 1: was talking stuff. You're saying s H I T. When
28:19
Speaker 1: you're saying stuff, yes, ma'am so, and you're saying this
28:23
Speaker 1: he referring to Zannah as X. Yes, Okay, go ahead,
28:26
Speaker 1: and it goes on to say DSL also had problems
28:30
Speaker 1: with Madison Man. Stuff has been brewing, yes since fall
28:35
Speaker 1: Rush last year. They went quiet on social media for
28:38
Speaker 1: two weeks before and after the murders. Who who went quiet?
28:43
Speaker 1: This is referring to DSL and another member that they
28:47
Speaker 1: referred to as Barry. Now, what can you tell me
28:51
Speaker 1: about claims that the killer wanted to be with X Zanna? Right?
28:58
Speaker 1: So further in US posts, he mentions Frattann mentioned that
29:03
Speaker 1: he saw Ethan, Zanna, DSL, and Barry at the party
29:08
Speaker 1: that night, and that Ethan and DSL have issues reaching
29:14
Speaker 1: back years. Ethan apparently was not very not on good
29:19
Speaker 1: terms with DSL, talked down to him, made rumors up,
29:23
Speaker 1: and that upset DSL because he wanted to be with Zannah.
29:29
Speaker 1: Is there anything else that's a bombshell to you out
29:32
Speaker 1: of that thread? The biggest things to me are that
29:37
Speaker 1: He also added that the pair, so both the accused
29:42
Speaker 1: in this thread, talked about leaving their cell phones behind
29:46
Speaker 1: at their house on YouTube using AutoPlay, so it looked
29:51
Speaker 1: like they were continuing to create data. Also, one of
29:56
Speaker 1: the other accused in this thread allegedly talked about this
29:59
Speaker 1: stuff in detail in the past, talked about wearing electricians
30:03
Speaker 1: gloves and putting on baggy clothes after and walking away
30:08
Speaker 1: from the scene. That's incredible. Yeah, Okay, is that Dale
30:12
Speaker 1: or Chris mcdonnah It is, it's Dale. And I just
30:16
Speaker 1: tell you that's a fairly easy thing to run down
30:18
Speaker 1: because you've got a select pool of people who would
30:21
Speaker 1: know that information, who are in that fraternity, and that's
30:24
Speaker 1: where they need to focus energy to rule that out
30:27
Speaker 1: or rule it in. To you. Chris mcdonnah joining us
30:30
Speaker 1: in Colecase Foundation. I discovered him in his YouTube channel,
30:36
Speaker 1: the Interview Room. Chris. One thing that really grabbed me
30:42
Speaker 1: so much of that I could discount. One thing that
30:45
Speaker 1: really grabbed me is talking about nineteen minutes walk over
30:51
Speaker 1: there and back and it's done. How does that jive
30:56
Speaker 1: with the layout of the land, you know, Nancy, that's
30:59
Speaker 1: it's plausible from obviously from their point of location from
31:04
Speaker 1: the frat house to the target house. But that the
31:07
Speaker 1: challenge that I think we need to consider here is
31:10
Speaker 1: the multiple attacker theory, you know, the the crime scene,
31:18
Speaker 1: you know, based on the evidence that they've released into
31:21
Speaker 1: the public. I e. You know the type of wounds
31:23
Speaker 1: at the corner, talked about that type of situation and
31:27
Speaker 1: the disk. The challenge that is going to come into
31:32
Speaker 1: play here, is there any blood evidence or any type
31:37
Speaker 1: of evidence leaving that house, Because if it was as
31:41
Speaker 1: crazy as it's being described, then you're going to have
31:45
Speaker 1: some type of transfer immediately onto these you know. If
31:49
Speaker 1: it's a multiple suspect situation, now that's even a higher
31:53
Speaker 1: risk for the offender if there are two of them.
31:55
Speaker 1: But Chris mcdonnigh, if we got don't think about it.
31:59
Speaker 1: There doesn't have to be and two people doing the stabbing,
32:02
Speaker 1: because we believe based on the wounds, there is one weapon,
32:05
Speaker 1: could be two similar knives, but we're hearing one weapon.
32:10
Speaker 1: Highly doubtful that two people are going to pass off
32:12
Speaker 1: one weapon. But just like the getaway driver, he's not
32:16
Speaker 1: in there rob in the bank, but he's part of it.
32:19
Speaker 1: I could see two people going over there and one
32:21
Speaker 1: hanging around outside. Nancy. That's exactly what this says. Who's
32:25
Speaker 1: exactly what this says? Oh what do you mean? That's
32:29
Speaker 1: exactly what it says. In the post, there's also a
32:32
Speaker 1: detail mentioned that Barry, the member referred to as the accomplice,
32:37
Speaker 1: was just a lookout. He did not participate in the stabbings,
32:41
Speaker 1: but went with dsl Okay, see, we could be going
32:46
Speaker 1: down a rabbit hole. But the point is, in any investigation,
32:51
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, you can't ignore any detail, even an anonymous post,
32:58
Speaker 1: and of course costs and figure out from an IP
33:01
Speaker 1: address who posted that. I believe they can't anyway. Well,
33:04
Speaker 1: the other thing is, I mean, he seems to have
33:06
Speaker 1: some information, but does that information line up again? If
33:10
Speaker 1: this was about Ethan, why go upstairs? Why would he
33:15
Speaker 1: go upstairs and murder two other people and not go
33:17
Speaker 1: into the basement and get the other two? Um, he
33:20
Speaker 1: doesn't mention, He doesn't. He doesn't mention how he gave
33:23
Speaker 1: an entry, and he didn't say it was to Stephen.
33:28
Speaker 1: I thought I thought they also mentioned Maddy. But this
33:32
Speaker 1: is something y'all you can gain just from the report.
33:35
Speaker 1: You're right, this is completely unconfirmed. My point is I
33:39
Speaker 1: don't think that the cops. I mean, you had to
33:42
Speaker 1: get a gas station, Clark to go Hey, I found
33:45
Speaker 1: a picture of the hyunday. Well, Nancy, I think we
33:47
Speaker 1: need to talk about the car a second. There's three points.
33:50
Speaker 1: Three points I want to make about the car. We
33:53
Speaker 1: have that in real time too. We have a direction
33:56
Speaker 1: of travel, and three we have somebody at three o'clock
33:59
Speaker 1: in the morning. Debt has not come forward. And you
34:03
Speaker 1: have a way to find a weapon that was thrown
34:05
Speaker 1: out of the window when they turned down that road.
34:07
Speaker 1: Good idea. Follow the trail to see if they threw
34:10
Speaker 1: the weapon out. Take a listen to our friends at
34:12
Speaker 1: Inside Edition. Did the bedroom doors of the four murdered
34:16
Speaker 1: University of Idaho students have electronic locks like this? A
34:20
Speaker 1: former tenant posted this photo and says all six bedrooms
34:24
Speaker 1: had combination locks. It's believe the students had a lock
34:28
Speaker 1: on their door similar to this. This is a keypad lock.
34:30
Speaker 1: And I'm at a architectural hardware in Manhattan with Richard Brown,
34:34
Speaker 1: who is the owner. Are these things reliable? They're very
34:37
Speaker 1: reliable when they're installed properly, and when they're used properly.
34:41
Speaker 1: You press the code that was prief programmed in, pushed
34:44
Speaker 1: down on the lever handle, opened the door, and then
34:46
Speaker 1: close the door behind you and it should be locked.
34:49
Speaker 1: Hey Moscow Fleace Mecker. Meanwhile, Inside Edition has obtained this
34:54
Speaker 1: body camp video taken on the night of the murders,
34:57
Speaker 1: a short distance from the house. One thing to drink
35:01
Speaker 1: in the department or can see you? So I think
35:03
Speaker 1: for us to drive by and see you guys absolutely
35:04
Speaker 1: stumbling down the brother three freshmen were cited from underage
35:08
Speaker 1: drinking underage note the time three fifteen am. Police say
35:12
Speaker 1: the murders could have been taking place at that very moment.
35:16
Speaker 1: The three were sited near the Sigma Kai fraternity where
35:19
Speaker 1: Ethan Shapen and Zena Cernodle attended a party. Look how
35:24
Speaker 1: close it is to the murder house. Cheryl McCollum Jackie
35:27
Speaker 1: says she didn't hear your third point. You have three points?
35:31
Speaker 1: What are they? The third one is the person in
35:33
Speaker 1: that vehicle at three o'clock in the morning has not
35:35
Speaker 1: come forward in a town of twenty five thousand people.
35:39
Speaker 1: A white to laundrep from twenty eleven twenty thirteen. Ain't
35:43
Speaker 1: no way you ain't heard about this? What's you're one in? Two?
35:46
Speaker 1: Real time? In the area and direction of travel? Yeah,
35:49
Speaker 1: And I think to dovetail into that thought again, Nancy,
35:52
Speaker 1: is that direction of travel could be critical because if
35:55
Speaker 1: it is in the area where that an original report
35:58
Speaker 1: where the dog incident took place correct, that would be
36:03
Speaker 1: very interesting correlating evidence. Take a listen to Moscow police.
36:08
Speaker 1: We have information of a white vehicle that was in
36:11
Speaker 1: the area either during the timeframe of the homicide or
36:16
Speaker 1: around the timeframe of the homicide, and we are just
36:19
Speaker 1: wanting to talk to the individuals who are in that vehicle.
36:23
Speaker 1: They may have some valuable information for us. And we're
36:25
Speaker 1: looking for a twenty eleven to twenty thirteen one day
36:29
Speaker 1: a Lantra. So any assistance you can give us, anybody
36:33
Speaker 1: that owns one, anybody that knows of someone who owns
36:36
Speaker 1: one or may have been driving one. If you could
36:37
Speaker 1: get a hold of us through our tip line or
36:41
Speaker 1: call us directly, we'd appreciate that. Another update, Stephanie Pagona
36:46
Speaker 1: is joining us from Fox News Digital. I understand that
36:49
Speaker 1: at least one of the victim's parents have hired a
36:52
Speaker 1: lawyer for what Yes, that is correct, so Kayleegan Solves,
36:56
Speaker 1: this family has hired an attorney. This attorney will deal
37:00
Speaker 1: not only with speaking with police and law enforcement about
37:04
Speaker 1: obtaining information regarding this case, but also is now the
37:08
Speaker 1: point person to speak with media about this case. So
37:11
Speaker 1: what do you make of that? Del Carson? Well, you know,
37:13
Speaker 1: I just don't know, Nancy, the way all of this
37:16
Speaker 1: is worth not what I want to hear. Well, I'm
37:18
Speaker 1: just I'll tell you. I'll tell you, Nancy Job. Her
37:21
Speaker 1: daddy thinks this investigation is his and he is dead
37:25
Speaker 1: as wrong. They are not going to tell him anything.
37:28
Speaker 1: They're not going to tell us attorney anything. This is
37:30
Speaker 1: an open and active investigation and anytime they meet with
37:34
Speaker 1: him as a courtesy, he has no right to any information.
37:38
Speaker 1: Yet Tank listens Moscow Police, please stick to official news
37:43
Speaker 1: releases for information. Tracking down rumors and quelling rumors about
37:49
Speaker 1: specific individuals or specificate events that may or may not
37:53
Speaker 1: have happened is a huge distraction for investigators and oftentimes
37:58
Speaker 1: is the result of social media a propagation, and it
38:01
Speaker 1: is very, very frustrating to investigators and hard to stay
38:05
Speaker 1: on track. Finally, I just want to add that we
38:07
Speaker 1: do have a lot of information and we are specifically
38:11
Speaker 1: keeping that information safe. We're not releasing specific details because
38:17
Speaker 1: we do not want to compromise this investigation. It's what
38:20
Speaker 1: we must do. We owe that to the families, and
38:23
Speaker 1: we owe that to the victims. We want more than
38:27
Speaker 1: just an arrest. We want a conviction. We owe that justice.
38:33
Speaker 1: Susannah Cayley Madison and Ethan Guys a tipline two zero
38:38
Speaker 1: eight eight eight three seven one eight zero. We wait
38:42
Speaker 1: as justice unfalls. Goodbyes