Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Interview Only w/ Jennifer Palmieri - How Can Democrats Win In The South?

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Interview Only w/ Jennifer Palmieri - How Can Democrats Win In The South? · The Chuck ToddCast

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  Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Todd cast is brought to
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  Speaker 1: you by Chapter. Now, almost everything you hear about Medicare
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  Speaker 1: then call chapter. Today at 980-734-3985. As I was saying
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: to my next guest when we were off camera, there
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  Speaker 1: are like five people I actually like that I've met
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  Speaker 1: in Washington over the years. And this and she is
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  Speaker 1: one of them. It's Jennifer Palmieri. And Jennifer and I
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  Speaker 1: go back to the 20th century. I guess it's probably
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  Speaker 1: the best way to describe it. And, you know, we
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  Speaker 1: don't want to talk about age or anything, but we
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  Speaker 1: go back to the 20th century.
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  Speaker 2: True. Hotline. Hotline truck.
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  Speaker 1: I'm a cub hotline person. You're like, you know, on
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  Speaker 1: the middle rungs, right, of the press world back then
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  Speaker 1: at the Clinton White House. Is that fair to say?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah, that's fair to say.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Lower to middle.
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  Speaker 1: And Jen is one of these people we grew up,
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  Speaker 1: you know, or professionally grew up together and And I
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  Speaker 1: think every generation of reporters and sources, you know, every
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  Speaker 1: sort of 10 years, there's versions of this. And I
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  Speaker 1: think it's safe to say that Jenna and I's experiences
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  Speaker 1: overlap in a variety of ways, variety of presidential terms
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  Speaker 1: and a variety of mediums. I mean, she jumped, you
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  Speaker 1: jumped into the sort of the documentary new space and
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  Speaker 1: this space for I did. Now I've jumped in with
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  Speaker 1: two feet. You've got a terrific new space. podcast series,
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  Speaker 1: documentary series. You know, I don't care what we name
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  Speaker 1: these things anymore.
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  Speaker 2: I know.
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  Speaker 1: Right. Like, you know, the platforms to me are irrelevant.
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  Speaker 1: It's it's wherever you want to find this stuff, you're
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  Speaker 1: going to be able to find it. She's executive producer
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  Speaker 1: of Long Play. And this really is sort of. Well,
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  Speaker 1: you tell me you're reimagining, you're trying to it is.
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  Speaker 1: It is something that, look, a lot of us political
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  Speaker 1: handicappers have been saying that essentially And we've seen this culturally.
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  Speaker 1: You know, first, frankly, it happened with college football. It
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  Speaker 1: went north to south. High school recruiting went north to south.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: And it's been this slow thing. And now America's presidential
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  Speaker 1: elections used to go through the Midwest. And increasingly, they're
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  Speaker 1: going to go through the Sun Belt. I mean, and
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  Speaker 1: I've made this argument that basically if you look from
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  Speaker 1: Arizona to Georgia, You see that the presidency, U.S. Senate control.
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  Speaker 1: So it's politics, it's culture, it's everything. And here's what
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  Speaker 1: this feels like to me. This feels like your way
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  Speaker 1: of like, hey, Northeastern liberals, the map has changed. Get
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  Speaker 1: to know the South and stop mocking it. Is that fair?
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  Speaker 2: That is fair. Also, hey, people in L.A. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: You know, like that it is, you know, so it's,
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  Speaker 3: I have always felt so like at the point, the
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  Speaker 3: point of the show is to focus on the South.
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  Speaker 3: And that's why it's called Long Play is because like,
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  Speaker 3: first of all, our show, it's a, you know, it's
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  Speaker 3: a YouTube, it's.
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  Speaker 2: The audio podcast. It's also YouTube.
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  Speaker 3: It's the same production company that did the circus. So
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  Speaker 3: it's very well, yeah, it's very well done. But we,
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  Speaker 3: the point is that it's a long play in the
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  Speaker 3: South in terms of not just like, not just like, oh, Democrats,
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  Speaker 3: you know, let's have Democrats went in the South, but
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  Speaker 3: just to get, you know, civic re-engagement, because it's been
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  Speaker 3: such one-party rule, you know, like Tennessee, for example, is
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  Speaker 3: often at the bottom, 50 out of 50 in terms
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  Speaker 3: of voter participation.
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  Speaker 2: Like Tennessee, it's a major state, you know, Nashville's there.
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  Speaker 3: One of, you know, one of the fastest growing cities
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  Speaker 3: in the country. And there's just, you know, there's a
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  Speaker 3: one-party rule, you know, in Mississippi, Alabama, you know, so
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  Speaker 3: it's across the board. So it's like, and I've always felt,
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  Speaker 3: because I was born there and I moved around a lot,
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  Speaker 3: and I think this has helped me Bless you, Chuck.
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  Speaker 3: In politics is that I'm pretty observant because I've had to,
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  Speaker 3: you know, I moved every couple of years. So just
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  Speaker 3: to figure out how you fit in and the South
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  Speaker 3: really stuck with me and it really bothered me. You know,
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  Speaker 3: I worked for a southern governor who became president of
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  Speaker 3: the United States. Right. I think our best, you know,
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  Speaker 3: Obama is sort of an exception to this. But the
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  Speaker 3: best Democratic politicians come from red states, you know, people
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  Speaker 3: who are used to having to make an argument to
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  Speaker 3: the full spectrum of political views. And that it really
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  Speaker 3: bothered me that we just kind of wrote off this
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  Speaker 3: entire region like it wasn't even there, let alone moral
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  Speaker 3: arguments of that. It's some of the poorest states in
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  Speaker 3: the country and it's some of the states with the
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  Speaker 3: highest black population. But now, you know, it's like now
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  Speaker 3: it's just like, hey, if you want to survive, if
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  Speaker 3: you want to win the presidency, like maybe you can
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  Speaker 3: win the presidency in 2028 with winning one or two
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  Speaker 3: states in the South. But going forward with the way
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  Speaker 3: the population is growing and the census and how Congress
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  Speaker 3: and Electoral College is going to work together.
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  Speaker 2: You have to win multiple states in the South.
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  Speaker 1: Look, it is it is tempting to say that to
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  Speaker 1: do to play the I told you so game and
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  Speaker 1: not to you, but sort of to generally.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 1: About this, because frankly, there is there's certainly there's certainly
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  Speaker 1: I have felt I don't want to call it a
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  Speaker 1: disdain in Democratic circles about the South. And I don't
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  Speaker 1: mean all Democratic circles. I mean, sure. I mean, really
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  Speaker 1: in the campaign political set. And I think part of
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  Speaker 1: it is just what I call geographic bias, right? The
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  Speaker 1: Acela corridor. I just think that there is just, there
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  Speaker 1: is a two-dimensional picture of the South that's painted to
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  Speaker 1: a bunch of people that just read the New York Times.
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  Speaker 1: And I know I'm being a little broad brush here,
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  Speaker 1: but not too much. And because, you know, you see
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  Speaker 1: it in just sort of, uh, Well, I'll give you
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  Speaker 1: an example. And this isn't a southern state because it
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  Speaker 1: drives me crazy. It's technically a border state and it's Kentucky.
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  Speaker 1: But I remember. Remember. During Obamacare, because who doesn't remember
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  Speaker 1: if you were in the middle of that PR?
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  Speaker 2: That's stupid.
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  Speaker 1: You once told me you should say, you know. You
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  Speaker 1: should see the president.
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  Speaker 2: He goes.
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  Speaker 1: Kentucky? Kentucky!
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  Speaker 3: Kentucky was the best one.
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  Speaker 1: But I think about that, and it was just, think
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  Speaker 1: about that preconceived notion that was planted in his head.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 3: And I say, how can Kentucky do so well with
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  Speaker 3: a Web site to sign up people for health care?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. And it was just like, wow. See, there's a
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  Speaker 1: lot of inputs that were going into Obama's brain by
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  Speaker 1: other people.
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  Speaker 2: Barack Obama. Right. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Right. That were stereotyping the South that probably arguably delayed.
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  Speaker 1: a lot of democratic interest groups, democratic money, social cultural
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  Speaker 1: engagement in the South.
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  Speaker 2: Do you accept that premise?
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  Speaker 3: I think that is correct. I, you know, I wasn't,
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  Speaker 3: I had not been back to, I went back to Mississippi,
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  Speaker 3: sort of going back like in 2017, but I had
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  Speaker 3: not been to, you know, other than going to New Orleans,
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  Speaker 3: had not been to Mississippi or Alabama, you know, Florida
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  Speaker 3: and Georgia, yes, but not the, not like the deep
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  Speaker 3: South for a long time. And it's easy to think
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  Speaker 3: that there, that it is, that it's a monolith and
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  Speaker 3: it's just not at all. You know, there are, Uh,
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  Speaker 3: there's like a, do you know the bitter Southerner? Are
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  Speaker 3: you a fan of the bitter Southerner? Do you know
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  Speaker 3: that magazine?
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  Speaker 2: I think you, I think it'd be super into it.
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  Speaker 3: It's a great magazine, um, made by three people from Georgia.
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  Speaker 2: They're out of Athens.
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  Speaker 3: Um, and they were bitter because the South, uh, it
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  Speaker 3: sort of started as like they were bitter because the South,
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  Speaker 3: there was a list of like the 50 best cocktail
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  Speaker 3: bars in America. And there was not one of them
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  Speaker 3: in the South listed.
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  Speaker 2: This was a while ago, right? Cause you can't imagine
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  Speaker 2: that happening now, but it was 14 years ago.
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  Speaker 3: And they're also bitter that the South is portrayed as
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  Speaker 3: entirely conservative, you know, a monolith. And so they made
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  Speaker 3: this they won the National Magazine Award last year for
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  Speaker 3: general excellence. I mean, that's like how good they are.
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  Speaker 3: But it was like I started to look at it.
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  Speaker 3: It was like it's just like a reminder. There are
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  Speaker 3: there are different there are different viewpoints everywhere.
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  Speaker 2: And like and and happening in the south and it is.
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  Speaker 3: You know and it feels now like the we did
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  Speaker 3: six weeks on the road six southern states texas georgia
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  Speaker 3: north carolina south carolina tennessee and mississippi and it's like
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  Speaker 3: there's so much that's happening on the Republican side, like
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  Speaker 3: a power grab, right? That's just like happening everywhere, right?
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  Speaker 3: But it does feel like that era is running out
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  Speaker 3: of road. And there is, I mean, Georgia is an
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  Speaker 3: interesting thing to talk about. It's its own special case.
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  Speaker 3: Texas is a special case too, but the other states,
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  Speaker 3: it feels like something's struggling to be reborn.
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  Speaker 2: If there was like, It's got to be organic.
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  Speaker 3: It's got to be people from that state, not people
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  Speaker 3: coming into that state, but they could use money and
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  Speaker 3: resources and attention that could really change, you know, not
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  Speaker 3: hard to win a Senate race in Mississippi, not a
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  Speaker 3: lot of money, not a lot of.
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  Speaker 2: Voters, you know, a little attention can go a long way.
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  Speaker 1: And I, and here we go again, where once again,
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  Speaker 1: the national party, national money, national political figures are talking
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  Speaker 1: the talk about Mississippi and ain't doing any walking. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: there is it is I look at this Mississippi race
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  Speaker 1: as a such a missed opportunity. I went off on
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  Speaker 1: a rant about this on my Thursday episode last week
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  Speaker 1: about how there's what, 25 different people wanting to run
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  Speaker 1: for president in 2028. Right. And then, you know, a
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  Speaker 1: good way to stand out, just decide, you know what,
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to triple down on one state. And I'm
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  Speaker 1: going to marshal all of my donor networks, all of
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  Speaker 1: my energy into turning Mississippi into a competitive state. I
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  Speaker 1: know the National Party has other priorities. I get it.
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  Speaker 1: So I'm going to turn my eyes and attention to this.
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  Speaker 1: I actually threw this idea at somebody that's running and
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  Speaker 1: they pondered it and they said, I get it, you know,
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  Speaker 1: but you know, it got in the way of the
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  Speaker 1: speaking schedule or the travels.
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  Speaker 2: But I want to go to North Carolina too. And
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  Speaker 2: I want to go to Georgia too. And I want
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  Speaker 2: to go to Texas too. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I don't want to just double down on Mississippi.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And yet, you know, if you end up becoming the
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  Speaker 1: sugar mommy or daddy to a victory in Mississippi, you've
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  Speaker 1: just proven to me, there's three pieces of, the job
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  Speaker 1: of being president. One is leader of your party, right?
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  Speaker 1: And that is an important one. We forget that part
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  Speaker 1: of it, right? One is to a communications job. Obviously
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  Speaker 1: you wanna know you actually have a vision and all
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: these things, but the political leadership part of the party
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  Speaker 1: has actually been a huge problem for the Democrats going
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  Speaker 1: on a couple of decades now.
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  Speaker 2: Going on a couple of decades, you're putting Obama in that.
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  Speaker 1: So, look, I think the state of the DNC has
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  Speaker 1: its roots in what and how the Obama White House
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  Speaker 1: marginalized it.
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  Speaker 2: I do.
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  Speaker 3: But what president hasn't marginalized the party, the DNC?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just like.
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  Speaker 1: No, Bill Clinton took it over. There's a difference. Bill
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  Speaker 1: Clinton used it. Bill Clinton, he accepted it. He embraced it.
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  Speaker 1: That's the difference, right? Obama... enjoyed being an outsider so much.
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  Speaker 2: You're saying like Obama, because Obama did organizing for action.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And it didn't leave, you know, didn't leave it for them.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not saying, this is, I know we're getting off
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: on a tangent.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: We're getting off on a tangent.
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  Speaker 1: Obama was good for Obama, the party of Obama. The
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: question is, were you good for the party of the
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Democratic Party? Right? Like, what did you do?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think that it's just like, it's like, I
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: just think, I mean, I know enough, I worked at
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: the DNC. I know, I know enough about how it
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: operates and it's a very weird.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: You were there when it was healthy during the Terry
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: McAuliffe years.
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  Speaker 3: Terry, I will call it here and say what's healthy,
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: but it's also it's easier to be healthy when you're
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: in opposition. I'm going to tell that to Ken Martin. Yeah, well,
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: it has the potential of doing that. But, you know, really,
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: it's that they're in opposition until somebody, until, you know,
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: you know, a great presidential candidate.
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  Speaker 2: Cures a lot of ills.
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  Speaker 3: And the DNC is going to reflect whoever they, you know,
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: it's going to reflect whoever that person is.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: And then when that person is.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: Gone, the DNC is going to have to remake itself
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: because it was made in the image.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Of the president.
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  Speaker 3: You know, like, it's just like, that's just how our
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: party system is.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: So I don't think, but I do think.
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  Speaker 3: That we just, you know, it was like, we don't
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: need to talk to those people because they're not going
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: to vote for us and we can win without them.
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  Speaker 3: It's like, that's kind of the attitude that I feel
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: is like really corrosive. And, you know, and it's like,
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: look at what that has wrought. Look what ignoring the
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: South has wrought. Look at everything that comes out of
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: the South. The, heartbeat abortion bill, right? The first one
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: came out of the Texas state legislature with its trifecta.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Where did Dobbs originate?
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: Where did Dobbs originate? The state of Mississippi. Where did
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: all the gerrymandering originate? You know, it's like now there's
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  Speaker 3: like legislation about contraception and surrogate parents and all of this.
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  Speaker 3: And nothing ever stays in the South. And, you know,
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: I talked to this guy. You would love him. He's
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: a Miss Jeremy Fasson.
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  Speaker 2: He's the... republican caucus chair for.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: The texas tennessee state legislature republican um from like kind
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  Speaker 3: of gatlinburg area great guy like welcomed us to his
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: home into his family um has a mixed race son
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: that adopted son is you know he go he like
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: not in a gratuitous way but he wants you to
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: know that you know his daughter is married to a
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: black man from um i forget what country i think
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: i think nigeria but like very welcoming, you know, clearly
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: not racist, right?
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  Speaker 2: Like goes out of his way, like is leaving.
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  Speaker 3: Office because he thinks Republicans have gone too far because
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: they tried to pass a bill to like the children
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: that were undocumented could no longer go to public schools
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  Speaker 3: in Tennessee.
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  Speaker 2: It failed, but he was like, that's when I was like,
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  Speaker 2: it's too much.
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  Speaker 3: I was like, okay, Representative Fasson, did you vote to
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: carve up Memphis into three districts?
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  Speaker 2: Well, yeah.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: Well, why?
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: He's like, well, because of politics.
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  Speaker 3: And you're like, well, but you just told me that
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: you're going to leave politics because your party has become
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: too extreme.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: And why are you giving it more power?
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: And he was like, Well, you know, and I was like,
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: this is what Lamar Alexander warned about.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: And he was like, well, he has a good point.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: You know, there was just not, there's no, there's no
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: pushback at all. There's no, there's just no, there's no opposition.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: And it's just like, this is when things die. And
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: so like Tennessee is doing terrible right. and healthcare, and
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: Tennessee is doing terrible in its education. So it's not
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: just about winning, it's about having.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: That region be more vibrant.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: If that region is more vibrant in terms of civic
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: engagement and people voting and the schools improving the way
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: miss out honestly the way Mississippi and Alabama have sought
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: to improve their schools like that's going to be good
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: for the whole country and that's going to and if
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: there is a more you know 10 North Carolina just
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: one seat away from breaking the supermajority.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Um in the senate um and then you know.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: In the house it's one seat away from getting the
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: supermajority but it's like there's a battle right now in
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: these state legislatures in the south that matter so much
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: um not just to the South, but to like the
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: whole country, because that is the test kitchen for all
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: of the, all of these conservative, you know, whether from
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: it's like socially conservative legislation to power grabs.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Todd cast is brought to
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: you by Kalshi. It's an exchange where you can trade
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: on what you actually think is going to happen. Sports, politics, culture,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: whatever's on your mind. For example, One market, of course,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: that I'm monitoring very closely is the U.S. Senate and
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: control of the U.S. Senate. As recently as September 10th,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Republicans were favored to retain control, 52%, right? To buy
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: a share of Republicans' retained control is going to cost
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: you 52 cents. It would have only cost you 48
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: cents to buy essentially a share of the prediction that
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Democrats would win control. But boy, have things changed in
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: two weeks, right? Democrats are now favored According to the markets,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: the market to buy Democratic control is up to 62 cents.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: The market for Republican control is 38 cents. So it's
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: the Democrats' high watermark so far of the cycle. And
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: so far, the number is growing by the day. And
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: so you know what that means. If you're confident, you
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: think this number is only going to grow, then you
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: better hurry up and get in now if you believe
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: the Democrats are going to do this. And if you
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: look at this and go, hey, I think the Republicans
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: are going to retain. And in fact, whether they retain
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: or not, I think we're going to see some polls.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: There'll be the natural tightening of October. I better get
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: in on this, get a piece of this Republican number
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: before it goes back up. And, you know, either way,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: you can make a couple of bucks. So it's fascinating.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: And depending on how you view the next three weeks
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: are going to go, not necessarily Election Day. But the
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: narrative of the next three weeks may impact which side
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: of that equation you want to purchase. So here's what
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: you need to know about CalSheet. You're going up against
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: other traders directly. There's no house setting the odds, just
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: people putting their own opinions and predictions on the line.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: So if you trade $ 25 and you use the code
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Chuck Todd, they'll throw in another $ 25 instantly. As always,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: please remember to trade responsibly. Let me start. I want
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: to I'm going to tackle this constituency by constituency in
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: the South and sort of hear about what you learned
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: and what you saw. And I want to start with
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: the black belt and rural blacks. What I what I've
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: what's interesting to me is when you look at North Carolina.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: The one time Democrats carried it in this century was
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: in 08. And what makes 08 unique is not Barack
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Obama at the top of the ticket that year. What
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: actually made North Carolina unique was it was an important
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: primary in May of that election year. And there was
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: this huge competition between Obama and Clinton and Indiana. Think
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: about that primary date. And it's to me such a
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: reminder of something. So Indiana and North Carolina are going
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: to be they were perceptionally important, right? It didn't really-
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: They were, yes.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: I remember this, yes. Right.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: It didn't really, wasn't really going to change the trajectory,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: but sort of, if you were going to make the
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: case to the superdelegates, boy, Obama had to split. Like
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: he couldn't afford to get swept there. And that was
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: the concern. And yet he thought, all right, we better
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: put some pressure on her in Indiana. And she wanted
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: to put some pressure on him in North Carolina. The
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: assumption was he was going to win North Carolina, she
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: was going to win Indiana. That ended up that way,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: but boy was Indiana super close and it ended up
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: being a bit of a bruise for her. But here's
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: what happened in November. Democrats carried both states.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: And I think I know the answer because there was
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: a necessity for both campaigns to campaign in parts of
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: those two states that they probably never would have in
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: any other year. And that translated to a better performance.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: And I look at that example more than any other
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: as simply if you show up, you do some groundwork,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: it does pay dividends down the road. And I use
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: the North Carolina thing specifically because there's some majority black
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: rural counties at the border of North and South Carolina
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: that essentially powered Obama's victory in November of that year.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: And he came up short in 12 and it was
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: in those counties and it was a turnout issue.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: And it and it was because he didn't have to
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: campaign there that often in 2012. And when he did,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: he did it via Charlotte or, you know, the big way. Right.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: You see where I'm going.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: We had the convention in Charlotte.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: So I go to and that's why I think about
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: this issue of rural blacks. It is the problem. It's
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: sort of both the answer and the problem in South
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Carolina and Mississippi, two states that should be more competitive.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: if you just look at the demographic, but they're not.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: So what'd you learn?
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: So this is, and I talked to, you know, uh,
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: when you talk to Roy Coopers, cause I came from
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: Georgia and then we went into North Carolina talking to
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: Roy Cooper's team, the, you know, just remind people of
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: the former governor who's running for a Senate there. And they're,
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: you know, they're a little, sometimes people in North Carolina
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: are a little defensive. Democrats are about how they're not
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: Georgia and all the reasons why they're different from Georgia.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: It's like, well, We're not, we're never, you know, our suburbs,
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: the Atlanta.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Suburbs are huge. There's no Atlanta.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: There's no Atlanta.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: And Charlotte and Raleigh aren't that, and the suburbs aren't that.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: And they always go on to say that the rural
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: areas in North Carolina have just gotten, they have gotten
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: more conservative in the last 20 years since basically it's been,
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: basically it's been 20 years since Barack Obama was elected.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: And that, and then I talked to some of the
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: state legislators that represent those, the kind of county that
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: you're talking about. And they said, well, Our areas have
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: gotten more conservative, including.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: Black voters, and there's no way to reach them.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: Because they're just, you know, there is like, because they watch,
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: if they watch anything, it's been Fox News.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Because it shows it's what's in every local diner, right? Like,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: that's sort of the crowd noise, whatever, the background noise.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: And it's just, it's just been like a major problem
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: in North Carolina, the ability to like break through and
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: reach and like, and reach these voters.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: And if you're not, you know, if.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: You're not campaigning, they're... We should assume this is probably
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: a very similar experience in rural South Carolina too, right?
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right. I think even more pronounced in rural South Carolina.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: It's like it has fewer, it has less of the
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: metropolitan areas that they do in North Carolina.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: But what's interesting about....
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: What's interesting about North Carolina or about South Carolina is
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: how much it's changing.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: It's the fastest growing state in the entire country.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: Now, a lot of the people that are moving there
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: are older and they can be more, you know, people
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: also say, well, somebody's coming into a state. That means
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: it's becoming more blues about.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Not always.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Not always.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: That isn't what's happening in the national suburb and national suburbs.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: That's not what happened in Oxford, Mississippi.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It's like, so that's not necessarily what's happening in
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: South Carolina, but it is, but people are moving there
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: from out of state. And I do feel like it
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: makes South Carolina a little more of a, of a
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: jump ball. The thing that was interesting about Mississippi, well,
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: like first of all, Georgia, like what's fascinating about Georgia
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: is like, this is sort of obvious to say, but
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: it's not something I think people think about in day-to-day politics.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: It's just that the decisions that were made 60 years ago,
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: ago in that state have a huge impact in this
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: politics today so people like Mayor Hartsfield who was white
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: mayor at the end of Jim Crow beginning the civil
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: rights era of Atlanta and decided Atlanta's going to be
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: the city too busy to hate we're just we're too
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: busy uh and it's like racism is bad for business
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: and they wanted to have there's a lot of this
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: big black population they wanted to have a sustainable black
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: middle class that was part of the theory as to
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: why artsville jackson maynard jackson the next mayor first black
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: mayor of atlanta is as big as it is to
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: sustain a middle class in atlanta and it worked and
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: you had the it's you know everything every civil rights leader,
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: you know, is either from Atlanta or came through there,
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: but like, and not really. And I think Democrats there,
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: you know, I think it's why Raphael Warnock and John
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: Ossoff are so.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Good is you got to think really.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Deeply about who you are, what you're for and what
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: your argument is going to be. If you're going to
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: convince independents and Republicans in Georgia to.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Vote for you.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: And they like, both of them have that civil rights
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: history very much in their minds. President mine, you know,
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: John Ossoff talks about how John Lewis, his mentor, would
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: tell him, remind him, the Black-Jewish alliance to the civil
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: rights era and how important that is and how symbolic
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: and important it is that there's now John Ossoff, you know,
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: a Jewish senator and a Black senator representing this state.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: And it's like, and then, of course, you had probably
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: 15 years ago now, people like Stacey Abrams make the
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: move to to organize Georgia outside of the party structure,
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: which is often, you know, either you get like a
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: rock star who wants to organize a party within like
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: Ben Wickler in.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Wisconsin, or you get somebody who's like, I'm going to
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: do something outside of it.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: And it's like, that is just people deciding that they're
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: going to do things differently and it matters.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: That's starting to happen in Mississippi. Yeah.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: There is the Charles Taylor is the head of the
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: NAACP there.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: He was in data.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: He was in like normal data, you know, analytic politics
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: and stuff that you and I.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Don't love as much as the just, you know.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: who are, you know, politicians that are just good at
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: this and get it. And he's been making the argument
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: for a long time. Like Mississippi is totally winnable. And like,
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: here are the numbers and this is why, and it's
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: not a pipe dream. And if 5% more black voters
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: turn out than normally do in the midterm and we
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: get 5% more white voters to vote democratic, you know,
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: Scott poem becomes the next democratic center for the state
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: of Mississippi. And, you know, They've done a lot of work.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: There's a group called the Mississippi Black Women's Roundtable. Super cool.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: Not quite like Stacey Abrams. They're more like ladder of engagement.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: They meet women who need help, like child care, help
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: with their utility bills. And they let them know, hey,
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: you have a voice and you should like make sure
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: that the state legislature knows about. And they collect stories
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: to go to state legislature to be like, we need
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: paid leave. We need child care. And they've had success.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: But then they're also getting these women trained to campaign,
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: to be candidates themselves like that. And it's like it's interesting.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: Somebody in Mississippi today, I said, who's making a difference?
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: And she pointed to this group and she said they're
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: challenging the status quo.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: And I took that to mean something more than the Republicans.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: I took that to mean they're challenging kind of old school,
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: the degree to which there is Democratic fixtures in Mississippi.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: They're like challenging that something new coming from it. So
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: like I do like I totally believe in like it's
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: a cheap state, a little bit of money for Scott Colombe.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: And he's a good candidate, by the way. He's like engaging.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Well, he's got a good story. He's a county prosecutor.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: And it's a good specific story as well with this senator, right?
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: You know, with the whole blue slip business, not to
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: get into arcane Senate business here. But the point is,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: is that like it was a good recruit. And I
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: just find, you know, I want to tell Democratic leaders like,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: you know, You just had the gutting of the Voting
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Rights Act. That should be motivation enough to put Mississippi
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: in the center of your focus, not as a nice
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: to have if we find extra money in the couch cushions.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: And I just, you know, this is where like Maine
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: is looking not great.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: And this is like what this is what uh charles
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: taylor from the end of the season that's me that
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: said to me he's like we're gonna drop what like
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: 100 million dollars to lose a senate race in may.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Look at you you're you're already i i i think
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: i don't know i think.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: The i mean he's like i'm saying i'm saying what
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: they are saying right and.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: He's like it's an interesting it's an interesting.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: He's like it feels a little racist like.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Why why are you 50 million dollars in maine Still like,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: is the 100 million gonna be the difference? That's probably
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: the best way. It's like maybe 50 million will still
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: give you the same chances, about a 40 to 45%
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: chance of winning. And national environment carries you. But you
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: need more infrastructure. Like a dollar goes much further in
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Mississippi at the moment than a dollar would in Maine.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Or Alabama, you know, too. And I talked a lot.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: I saw Doug Jones a couple of months ago when
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: I was in Alabama. I was interviewing him.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: That's where Hillary Clinton worked for the Children's Defense Fund
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: in Alabama.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's got the it's the world's largest, I think,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: peanut exposition that you can have there in Alabama. Yeah.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: But they will analytic you to death about how winnable
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: their race is. And it does seem as if national
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: donors are like crickets with them.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel what it also I think if that
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: was a Senate race, it would be different, too. Right.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: You know, that's like that's that's that is part of it.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: That's another blind spot for the party sometimes is is
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: sometimes not.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Not realizing how important winning a governorship is sometimes more
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: important to a long term party building than a Senate seat.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's just and it's just like I mean,
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: look at Roy Cooper, the exposure of a Democratic. I mean,
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: that guy that guy's literally been in office for 40 years.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: He's been a statewide.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: I know, which you just wrote that. That's the attack
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: ad on him. He's been in office for 40 years,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: which is, you know, you're right. Which is why he's
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: going to win. It's why he's going to win. And
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: it's his biggest vulnerability. That's the irony to that.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: He can't get, because people know who he is.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: So you can't pigeonhole him as a certain kind of
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Democrat because they know who, they know who.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: You should see that, not to totally go off region here,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: but I saw the most recent attack ads on Sherrod Brown.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: They're no longer trying to say he's a liberal. They're
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: trying to say, well, the party is not what he
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: you know, they're sort of acknowledging he's not.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: He's not like them.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: We know he's not like them, but he'll go along
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: with them. Like that's the hit.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: And you're like, oh, that's that's that's interesting. That's revealing.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: That's revealing.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: It told me that they know that that he's been
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: around so long that he has his own identity. And
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: so they couldn't they couldn't fuse a new identity onto him,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: which was.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: So you either need.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: So like the right. And this is why the state
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: legislators are so important, too, because it's like that's like
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: a breeding ground for good politicians. But in Mississippi, it
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: is Brandon Presley who came very close to winning the
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Democratic governor. to be elected Democratic governor in 2023. And
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: like the amazing thing about that was it was a
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden midterm, you know, like, and he almost won. So,
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: and there is, and he put money back into some
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: mayoral races for the 2025 race and was able to
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: flip us, you know, and it's with the theory that
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: mayors are good training ground.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Too, right?
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: So it's like, so I think it, and it's not,
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: you know, it's not that hard to, So I don't
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: think people can't parachute in. So, and like, and money
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: is not just the answer. It's like, you gotta have
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: committed people on the ground that want to build something.
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: But I feel like that is there in Mississippi and
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: that is there in Alabama. Alabama is super interesting because
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: you have Huntsville, which is another one of the fastest
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: growing cities in the South. It's kind of like a triangle,
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: research triangle situation because of NASA there in terms of
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: the people that are moving there from out of state.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: This is highly educated. It was the last place Democrats
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: It was the last place a white Democrat, I think,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: represented Alabama. The last time they had a white Democrat.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Who was that?
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: Kramer.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: I think it was Kramer, right?
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Bud Kramer, right? Bud Kramer, I believe, yeah.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: And then Birmingham, which is also sort of booming, too,
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: and trying to organize as another Atlanta. So, like, you
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: could see. But, like, man, it feels like the Republicans
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: are running out of room there. There's just, like, it's just.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: I didn't meet.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: I did not lay eyes. on one interesting new Republican candidate.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: I sat through like a three-hour Republican Senate candidate forum
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: in Charleston when the Lindsey Graham seat was, and I
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: was like, okay, this is interesting.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Sure, let's see what they got, yeah.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: Let's see what they got. And it was like just... Yeah,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: Norman Frye, right. Norman Frye, was that he lost?
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: No, Ralph Norman. And the other guy was Russell Frye.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Russell Frye, yeah. Russell Frye was the only one that
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: had a little energy. And, you know, he lost anyway.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: He was the youngest, yeah.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: All right, so we talked about rural Blacks. And you
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: talked about that.
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: The other arguably fastest growing demographic group in the Sun
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Belt group So I'm expanding it a little larger, but
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: it's very true in the South is Latinos. Right. And
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: it's and it is.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: North Carolina, Texas, Georgia.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: I believe just about every southern state. It's over 10
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: percent of the population.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: And that is, and that does feel, you know, Texas
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: is the most, obviously, like, the biggest and the most pronounced.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: And the, like, Texas feels, like, ready to explode.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Like, people are not, like, turned blue, but just... Well,
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: it's not blue.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: I keep telling people, Texas wants, it's going to be purple.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: And that's the, whatever happens, Texas has become purple, which
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: is a big deal. It means it's contested.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Which is a huge deal.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: It will be contested. Period.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: And it is.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: And, you know, we talked to a couple of Hispanic
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: men that voted, both voted for Trump that own a
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: construction company. And they are both supporting Tallarico and, you know,
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: for governor. And, you know, they like thought the border
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: is out of control under Biden.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: They're really worried about that. Like that was part of
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: the reason why they voted for Trump. Also, the economy.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: And it is just, it's like that is a state
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: where people are feeling real effects in their own lives
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: from like bad policies from Abbott with education, which is
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: like insane.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: It's insane.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: It's like, there's like four day a week schools and like,
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: Texas kids are going to school four days a week
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: because there's not enough money.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: It's unbelievable what they've done. And I do think that
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: it loses its schools is why it loses.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: It is definitely.
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: I mean, and I was like, you know, when I
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: first got there, people were telling me and I'm like, yeah, schools,
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: people all say education is going to be a big issue.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: And then I met with some of these women and
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: they are.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: This feels Brownback-esque, doesn't it? Like in Kansas, like what happened?
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: And also what happened in it's interesting because it's sort
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: of a clap back to the Loudoun County CRT moms.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: Because like one thing when I met with these women
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: in Texas, one was like a never Trump Republican. The
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: other two had been like Republicans. You know, they were
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: Christian evangelicals. One of the women said she voted. She
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: said during COVID, her son was an infant. And she
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: was like, I heard they were teaching CRT. I heard
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: that there are boys playing girls sports. There are boys
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: and girls bathroom. And then my son got to school
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: and none of that is true. She's like, we got
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: to teach all history, the good stuff and the bad stuff.
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: Like you need to know everything. I am a Christian evangelical.
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: I do not want my son taught the Ten Commandments
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: in school.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: That is not why he is here. This other woman
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: was like.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: My child was doing dual language and was going to
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: graduate fluent in Spanish.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: And now he's not.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: And these are very conservative. And this one woman said,
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: she's like, I feel like I was duped. into voting
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: for these MAGA school board people and she's like now
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: it's on me to like make sure everybody knows and
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: I said okay so you're not going to vote for
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: Abbott but you're not going to vote for I think
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: oh yes we are we are voting for Gina Anahosa
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: and we are voting for James Tallarico we gave money
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: to James Tallarico they and they're also and I was
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: like what about Jimmy Six Genders and Loti right yeah.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: And they're just... The.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Culture war stuff doesn't hit very well when your kid.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: The culture war stuff doesn't hit well when your kid
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: is going to school four days a week and they
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: shut down her son's school. Or your kid's not getting
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: the education that you think they need.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: Or you can't run your construction company because people who
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: are in the United States legally, who are citizens, are
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: scared to show up to work because they're brown or
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: they have a ladder on their truck.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: So it is.
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: Texas is just... And also I think Texans are just
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: kind of different, right? It's like, don't lie to me.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: Do not bullshit me. Don't push me around.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Like, I am not going to be pushed around here.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: And it's like, and then I think Tallarico and Hinojosa
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: are both like, you know, good.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: Like they're Texans, you know, Gina, I don't know if
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: Gina knows this.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: Gina comes from like, a multi-generational family in Texas. Her
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: dad was chair of the Texas Democrats for a long time.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: You know, her sister is a colleague, a longtime colleague
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: of mine.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: And like, she's a, she's a, she's, she's like, she
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: knows that this is a moderate state.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Hey, this episode of the Chuck Todd cast is brought
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• 40:32
  Speaker 1: of 2026. The most interesting comment about her campaign I
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: got from an old friend of mine. down there, San Antonio,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: sort of Democrat. You probably know him. I'm going to
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: keep his name out of it. And he said, this
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: is the first time he's worked really hard to try
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: to get Latino Democrats elected. He said, this is the
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: first time where I feel like a Latino candidate for
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: office is being taken seriously by everybody and not just
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: the Latino community. And it's just something has, and he's like, look,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know if she wins or not, but boy,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: this hasn't felt this way since Ann Richards. And he
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: was a big part of the Ann Richards world.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's... Dating him a little bit. Yeah, I think
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: I know who it is now.
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: Right, it's also interesting because like Texas women have a
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: history of winning there, you know, Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Ann Richards.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: You know. So, but Hispanic, so, but, you know, but.
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: They're culturally conservative, you know, the most, like these Hispanic voters,
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: but they are... And it's like and I think a
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: lot of them in, you know, you saw like in
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: 20 and 24, like felt like they did not have
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: a place in the Democratic Party.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: So it's not it's an opportunity.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: And in these races were happening in 26. It feels
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: like Democrats are meeting the opportunity. But that's a long
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: term play.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Well, and that's it. And look, I think that's a
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: long term question about whether, you know, just like Donald
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Trump's going to find out, you know, Latino voters were
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: never a part of his coalition. He was renting them.
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: And Democrats are going to be renting them, too. Like,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: don't pretend that if Latinos come back and vote in
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: numbers that look Obama level, that doesn't mean they're permanent
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: members of this coalition. It just means, you know, they
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: didn't they they're uncomfortable with that other one. All right.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Let me get to the third big constituency group that.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: And I and we keep we've actually talked about it
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: quite a bit. And that is believers. Right. The South
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: is more religious. It is the part of the South
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: that I feel like an outsider in. OK, even though
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: I'm you know, I I'm a child of the South.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: But as I joke, the farther south you drive in Florida,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: the farther north you go.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: To visit. You have to drive north to visit the
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: south when you live in Miami.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: But this is the part that can feel culturally. And,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: you know, I remember, look, I at least was familiar enough.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: I tell the story quite a bit. My first couple
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: of years at NBC, they wanted to do a poll
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: of South Carolina primary voters. And I said, you know what?
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: You can't poll on Wednesday nights. And it's just a
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: bad night to poll in the south. And I'm with national.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: reporters and news executives. And they were like, why is that?
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: Is there a football game?
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Right. They didn't know. I said, well, Wednesday's church night.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: And they were like, well, what's that? And I said, well,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: for many small towns, it's just a night to gather. Yeah,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: it's Bible study. Sometimes it's just a potluck dinner. Sometimes
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: it's just going to hang out, just like you might
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: hang out at your country club, just like you might
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: hang out at your golf club, like at the polo
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: lounge or whatever the hell, right? Like it just happens
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: to be a gathering night on Wednesday night and they're
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: not home. And, you know, back then you needed to
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: make sure people were home when you were polling them. Now,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: of course. There's all sorts of other methods that we're
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: we're we're experimenting with. And whether there are any of
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: them work anymore, I don't know. But I'm I'm going
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: to guess that religion is still the biggest impediment for
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: the Democrats.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: I think it is.
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: I think I mean, it's just I think like it
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: is it can be a blind. It is not a
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: blind spot. And it's something because we had Mitch Landrieu
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: with us, you know, who's like a big Catholic person.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: um as as part of this.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: It's okay to hang out in new orleans sometimes the
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: catholics aren't allowed anywhere outside of new orleans though i.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: Mean i had an insane experience as a brownie in
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: pascagoula mississippi you know like with like some you know
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: we went to church as like part of our brownie
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: troop and they were talking about like the sins of
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: like that the priests were all alcoholics and the nuns
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: were all lesbians i'm like what's a lesbian what's happening.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: I'm just a brownie. I don't know.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: I'm just a brownie. But like the Gulf Coast, the
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: Gulf Coast actually has a lot of Catholics.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like, like, yeah, drive 30 miles outside
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: the Gulf Coast and tell me.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: How many Catholic churches you find.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: Even Mississippi, you know, the Gulf Coast, Mississippi, you know,
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: all that strip. It's like it's where fishermen settled.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: But it is.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: But the further inland you go. the harder it is to.
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: Find and it is like and it's funny because i
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: would talk to because i felt like it was a
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: really important thing to address in this series is that
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: is how i mean faith family football it is not
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: a college game day slogan it is life in the
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: south and it is something that um i have a
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: lot of you know i'm i mean you know this
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: i'm like fascinated by football i also don't did a
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: documentary about the Buffalo Bill Stadium because I'm so fascinated by, yeah,
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: it's about laborers that built the Buffalo Bill State, the
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: Buffalo Bill State on.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: The NFL network.
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: And it's incredible because it's like, these are the things
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: that bond people together and give their life meaning, okay?
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: You want to mock that? You want to think that
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter?
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: You want to think that that's not something you need
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: to understand and address?
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: And when I would.
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: Talk to sports, Democratic politicians in the South about it,
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: like Ossoff or Scott Colombe or Roy Cooper, some of the,
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: they were just kind of like, what do you mean
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: we need to talk about that?
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Like, They're just, they're just it.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: It's like talking about that there's humidity in the South.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: What do you mean? What are we discussing?
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: They're like, yes, of course I talk about my faith.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: You know, it is, you know, it's just like, it's
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: a core part of who I am.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: And it is to not, so I think the most.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: You know, the most successful politicians, that's part of their identity.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: And it is, you know, and I, I think it's,
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: you know, this is, these are things that bring like
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: a lot of meaning and, uh, and, and, and, and
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: to not, and the fact, and there's a lot of
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: assumptions made about Democrats that they are not people of faith, um,
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: and that, you know, unfairly.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: So, but then also that they don't respect faith and
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: the importance that it plays. Right. So that is, um,
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: How does.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: One fix that? I mean, if you're not a believer,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: you know, but we go back and forth. Hillary Clinton
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: is arguably the most religious nominee the Democrats have had
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: in my lifetime. And what I mean by that is
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: everything I understand about her faith, I think she was
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: deeply knowledgeable, deeply committed. You know, more so, you know,
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: more regimented about it than Obama, than Biden's pretty serious
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: about his Catholicism. So I should really.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Jimmy Carter.
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: Right. But but it was. And yet. That never broke through.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Nobody in the South accepted the premise that she was
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: a woman of faith. Why do you think that?
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I wrote a couple of books about
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: why that was.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Well, what did you learn? Because you have, look.
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: What I learned from it, like she would, I mean,
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: she would speak very openly about it and she would
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: be mocked, but she would speak openly about a lot
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: of things and be mocked. And I think that was
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: just a lot of like the first woman to Hillary Clinton,
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: her whole adult life from when she was, an undergraduate
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: at wellesley and she was on the cover of life
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: magazine for her commencement address right she was always pushing
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: the boundaries of like what we thought was acceptable for
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: women in the roles that women should be in so
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: she was just always someone who was going to um
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: get a lot of friction when you know when she
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: said but she.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: Would speak you know like you know, we're having a
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: tough day and.
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: She would just be like, today's the day the Lord
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: has made.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: Let us rejoice and be glad.
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: And she met it, you know, like she, so, and it,
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: I think that there are, you know, obviously like Senator
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: Warnock speaks about his faith a lot.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: Senator Ross speaks about his faith a lot.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Kamala Harris did not, by the way, you know, and.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: She is also, she's, and she is, she's a Californian,
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: but like, work.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: For her husband. Yeah, right.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: I think some Democrats think that if you're not religious,
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: it makes you uncomfortable.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: But it has not to become, I think.
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: you know the country is hurting it's like people are
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: looking for purpose they're looking for community they're looking for
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: identity a way to like bond together and the things
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: that inspire you know so there needs to be a
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: lot of respect for people's faith and how important that
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: is I mean it's just in the south it's just
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: it's it's it's it is the you know it's the
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: first thing out of people's mouths faith family football you
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: know it's um family may come first but and then
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: you got to You have to find a way to
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: connect with that, either because it's something that you respect
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: or it's something that you share. But I think if
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: people don't understand that this that if you're selling yourself
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: as a leader, that there's something deeper in you than
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: your political beliefs that drive who you are as a person,
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: you are not going to win the presidency. Like that
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: doesn't mean you have to be religious, but it means
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: there's got to be something more there. Like people are
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: going to really need that in 28.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: You have just explained why I've never thought about running
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: for office is because I I value the Constitution more
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: than any religious text. And I know that that's a
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: political thing. that that would actually be a political negative.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: But that drives you, but like.
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: And you believe, but you believe in something in your core,
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: you know, you're not just trying to accomplish something.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: True, and I agree that belief, but having deep belief can,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: whatever it is, I mean, but I could see easily
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: somebody turning, turning what I just said, he's godless.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: You immediately, and that's one of those, if you're hit
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: with godless, it's tough to unring that bell.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is.
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: And it's just like, it's a huge, you know, it's
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: a huge part of, It's a huge part of it.
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: Like life is not easy in America today.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: Life is not easy in the South.
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: Like if you're, if you're living in the South, you're
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: more likely to have, you know, to be from an
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: economically distressed region. And I think they, you know, so
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: if you're, if you're in that situation, you might like
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: pull a little deeper on what's important to you and
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: then be skeptical of people who come from, who come
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: from more affluent and more affluent situation and don't have
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: that belief.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: And like, what do you think of me? And like,
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: why should I trust you?
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: You know, it's a big deal. Let me do the
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: annoying sort of standard questions that you might get. But like,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: what was something that you now understand that you didn't
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: before you began this project? Um....
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: That well i there's just like things so like the
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: things that stand out is like how hard the communication
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: problem is like how is.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: That a local thing is it local news it's.
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: Local news it's like local news is missing it's like
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: democrats pushing back effectively there's no democrats to push back
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: effectively so you're not hearing from them just like the
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: the echo chamber and the like of just not hearing
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: from Democrats. North Carolina is where that really hit home.
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: There's a total rock star in North Carolina, this woman,
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: Sydney Batt. She's the Democratic leader in the Senate. Just like,
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: you would love her. She swears too much. She definitely
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: swears too much for North Carolina. But she's the daughter
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: of Chapel Hill. She's a true North Carolinian woman. really savvy,
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: really smart. Like I think they are going to turn
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: the North Carolina state legislature around. Like there are like
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: stars there that are working hard to do that. But like,
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: and the rural areas is what they say. It's like,
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: they're big problems. Like that is a huge problem. I
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: did not believe in Tallarico until I went to Texas.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, give me a break.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: You know, I started, I started the late spring, early
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: summer as a skeptic. And you know, I I've done,
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: whether it's traveling to Dallas now that I have a
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: kid in college there in the state, so I'm in
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: the state more often. Certainly, spending more time in Bush
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Republican territories, not Trump Republican territories, but the old Bush-Cornyn neighborhoods.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: But when you just look at the data, you realize
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: Texas feels like Florida 2000, right? Texas 2026 feels like
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: Florida 2000. You're like, hey, we've all known it's been coming,
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: it's been coming, it's been coming, And you know what
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: you end up forgetting, Jen, about Texas is you should
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: look at the statewide results in 2018 and the full
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: statewide results in 2022. And you realize the Democratic floor
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: has slowly been increasing.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: And the Democratic winning numbers have been going like this.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: So there was always a point, you know, it's like bankruptcy, right?
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: First it's slow, then it's quick. You know, here we are.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: It's been, you know, Beto didn't get to 48 by himself.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: The entire ticket got to 45, right? And that's what
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: you realize. And then all of a sudden you throw
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: in a scandal penalty. that does happen to candidates like
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: Paxton across the board.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a real thing. I was like, that
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: is a real thing.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: It's worth four or five points. I mean, I've put
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: a data to it. I can show you examples with
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Herschel Walker to Brian Kemp. I can show you Jay
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: Jones and Abigail Spanberger. I could show you Bob Menendez.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: It is across the board. There is always a handful
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: of voters that do switch, that penalize that do penalize
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: it's and sometimes it's enough to flip a race sometimes
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: you don't notice it like in virginia because it was
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: such a blowout at the top of the ticket but
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: that's it didn't mean that there wasn't that four to
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: five point penalty and in the as competitive as texas
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: is four to five point penalty is it's toast yeah
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: you're you're you're.
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: Done you're yeah like that uh and and You know,
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: I had heard that Texan, Republican Texans might not vote
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: for Paxton. They might just stay home or vote for Abbott,
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: not vote for him. But then I found people that
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: are like, no, we're voting. We're voting for we're voting
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: for Tallarico. So it's like it's like it is the
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: like I don't want to undersell how big the Democrats
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: like brand problem is. You know, the best Taylor Remmitt,
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: who's a very good state senator in Fort Worth.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: He won that. He won a race that had been
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: he run a Senate seat.
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: Tarrant County is where you really see it there, which
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: is Fort Worth. I mean, I just had Abby Winston
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: on the show.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, you know, she told me about it.
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. She talked about the Fort Worth education problem. Yeah.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: Right. And it was more about, frankly, because, you know,
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know enough about Texas because I've never had
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: to deal with it as a swing state. And you
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: really just wanted to understand. I felt like it was
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: really important, you know, whether it's me learning or listeners learning.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: And yeah.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: And you do see that this is this is percolating.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: But I am. Let me ask you this. I.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: But he like Taylor Redmond is like, I am not
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: part of the national party.
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: I do not talk to them. And I do not
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: talk to the local democratic party. Like that is what
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: he says. So that's like, so it's like there, it's like,
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: it's kind of a blank. Like if these, the savvy
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: Democrats are treating the democratic brand, like it's a blank
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: slate and they are going to, and they're going to like,
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: you know, they're going to define.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: What it is.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: What I think is interesting with Tallarico is that Tallarico
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: is basically a Anything in his past that has popped up,
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: something he has said, he is not, he's like, eh, no,
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: I didn't, you know, that's an old thing.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: And like, it's, he's- He's not ignoring them.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: He's not ignoring them. And he's accepting the criticism. Yeah,
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: you're right. That went too far. A lot of times
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: Democrats are told, no, stick to your guns. Don't abandon
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: your principles, right? And a lot of communications professionals would
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: say that. Yet I feel like Tallarico is strengthening because
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: he's been willing to say, yeah, what I– that was–
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: look here, I could tell you what I meant, but
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: you know what? I get it. I, I, I didn't
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: use the right words, you know?
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: And it's like, I don't think it's like his, his
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: experience is instructive. We'll see if he wins.
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, he's obviously doing better than he would, than
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: I expected him to do given some of the past statements.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: Right. You know? So it's like, I mean, God is
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: not binary. I thought I was like, all right, that's
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: all I need to hear. Texas is not doing that.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: That's just not going to happen.
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: Right. I don't know that everyone could explain these things
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: away as effective as he can, because there's other ways
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: for you to connect to that man's core and understand
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: who he really is.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: And his faith is a big, I think, I mean, I,
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: you know, it's like, You take bits and pieces from everything, right?
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: So it's working for him. He's obviously doing better because
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: he's taking these things on. I do think that if
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: people are talking about it, you've got to address it.
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: You have to give at least your supporters something to understand.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: Let them explain it, right? Give them ammunition.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: Give them ammunition.
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: In this day and age in particular, you need to
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: do that.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: And it depends on what it... And I just think.
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: It depends on, you know, what, what it is, but
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: also I think there's something about, you know, like there's
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: someone I talked to, they're like, I would not want
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: Ken Paxton as a neighbor. I would be very happy
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: to have James Tallarico, like growing up, you have my
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: kids growing up next door to him. So like, there's
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: something that, you know, they're like, they're, they're, they're pulling
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: a lot from that guy's background.
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: So how did you not put on a hundred pounds
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: traveling in the South? Because the food is so, I mean,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: even gas station, my favorite, thing that that that and
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: this is something i learned from a from a georgian
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: he said don't turn your nose up at gas station
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: fried chicken he said a lot of times gas station
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: fried chicken's the best fried chicken you're going to find.
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: In a county The terrible thing in Oxford, you know, Oxford,
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: Mississippi has such great restaurants, including the grocery. You know,
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: that's like the big thing. And I actually interviewed Wright
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: Thompson there and we ate nothing. It was like an
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: abomination on top of an abomination.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: Here's like the biggest, like one of the biggest food
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: guys in the South.
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: But there is a gas station in Oxford that has
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: incredible fried chicken, incredible biscuits, and incredible french fries, which
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: is what I lived on, though.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: That we were in Mississippi. We did do.
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we did do a lot of, a lot of good.
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, it was like, I was desperate for a
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: vegetable though. And I'm not like a big vegetable person,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: but at the end you're like.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: You can always find vegetables. It's just going to be
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: in a deep fryer, my friend.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: They're just going to be, yeah, stewed with a lot
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: of pork. And yeah, yeah. Cheesy grits.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: Come on.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: So good.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: So many good biscuits. Aaron and I had the best.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: This place called the 5 and 10.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: In Athens, Georgia. Oh my God. It's like each jam.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: Oh my God. So good.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: See, now we're leaving everybody. See, what you got to
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: do next is sort of your- Late summer. A foodie's
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: road trip guide to the South.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: A foodie's road trip guide. That's what we'll add on.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: We're going to go back out for October. So we'll
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: add that in. Yeah. And bonus content. Because you just
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: got to keep making content, Chuck.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, you do. You churn it out.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: Let's quickly do two minutes on presidential politics as you're
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: watching 2028. Who's had a good 2026 in your opinion?
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: You know how.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: That world works.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, boy.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: Oh, gosh.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: I have another thing. I think John Ossoff has had
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: a great 26th. You really think he's running?
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: We should take that seriously?
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: I think I would definitely take it seriously. You have
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: to take him seriously. I think he's had a good 26th.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: I don't know who else really. I mean, I think
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: that I'm not convinced about the people who.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: Are just out campaigning for other people.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: And like, you know, having your own race to run
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: gives you an advantage.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: It really does.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: Because you can talk about yourself in a way that
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: you're not being like, look at me, I'm running for president.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: And the others are just having to talk about other things.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: It's not a great setup.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess ASAP though, I think if you'd asked
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: me who was going to have the benefit the most
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: from that aspect of things, We would have probably both
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: said Shapiro and Westmore. Right. You know, because they actually
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: could be running for reelection while they're doing it. Asaf
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: is it's in that sense, that's been impressive.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: He makes, he makes a full argument.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: He's got a full, I mean, I don't necessarily know
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: that it's the winning argument for 28, but he's got
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: a full argument that he makes about corruption. You know,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: his grounds in history, grounds in the history of Georgia,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: you know, how it's holding us back, what he could
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: do about it, what it would mean to, you.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: Know, it's, you know, it's well thought out.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: Hey, very quickly, if just Cooper and Ossoff end up
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: winning in 26, but not Tallarico.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: What is that? What, what, What does.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: That mean for the party?
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: It means you're making progress, but, you know, that was
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: a tough race. That was always going to be a
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: tough race.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: There was a lot. There was headwinds that he had. And.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: You know, I just think that, but it, but it
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: like stuff is changing in the South. And it's just like,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: I just feel like it's really important to keep the
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: engagement up because it's been, it's just been like, it's
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: just been an open field for them.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: So I come from a world where I believe every
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: state has a 50% fulcrum. It's your job as a
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: political party to figure it out.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. All right. So good to see you.