Latest / Providence Voice / Pockets of Paradise - In My Feelings (Jealousy) - #032

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Pockets of Paradise - In My Feelings (Jealousy) - #032 · Providence Voice

0:01
SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Pockets Paradise Podcast.
0:03
SPEAKER_01: This is Larson Gurkins with Megan Tenner, and we're glad you're here today.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: We're so glad you're back.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: Let's get to it.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, welcome back to the Pockets of Paradise Podcast.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: It's Megan and Larson here to uh share a little bit of time with you.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: So we have been in our little series called In My Feelings, and it's all about the design for emotions and holy emotions versus unholy emotions.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: And um the reason we started doing this is because we realized that in the church, oftentimes uh we've been told whether it was directly or indirectly that uh negative emotions are not of Christians and positive ones are.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: And that's just not true.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: Our God is an emotional being.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: And when I say emotional, I don't mean unstable, but I mean that he feels and he experiences the full spectrum of emotion, but he has the holy version of them.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: We have the capability of having the holy version of them, but often our flesh gets mixed in there and we find a way to screw it up.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: So we're kind of going through the big emotion.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: So we've done through anger, we've gone through fear, but we've also talked about the holy versions of them as well as the unrighteous versions of them.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's been pretty freeing for some people to hear.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: And so that's what we're gonna continue on with today is um envy versus jealousy.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: So envy is a sin and it is not of God, it is unrighteous.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: But jealousy, God is a jealous God.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: And if God can be jealous, then it must not be bad when it is done the way it is designed to be done.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: And that was always a really hard one for me to wrap my head around.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: Because as a kid, my mom's like, don't be jealous, or you shouldn't be jealous of someone else.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: And I think it immediately gets a bad, oh, that's bad.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: That's bad, that's bad.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, but then I would read the verse, God is jealous, a jealous God, and then I would just be confused.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: So I was like, what do you mean?
2:16
SPEAKER_00: What does that even mean?
2:18
SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, you just want to dive into it?
2:22
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: I do think it's funny.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, I like in talking about these emotions and things like even in our, if you will say more rough emotions, yeah.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, that we can be so transparent with God.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: I actually had a friend um text me and she was like, all right, so I believe after listening to the podcast and that she's like, I believe God will take care of all these things, but apparently I just need to be a little dramatic first.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I so feel that, but it's so true that like we can do that with the Lord.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: Like instead of just reacting to another human and that, like, be transparent with the Lord so that He can make them righteous and He can write the way you feel.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: Right.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: So I just I just thought I wanted to share that because uh I loved it.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I read it and literally laughed out loud.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: That's so true.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: But that's what the whole book of Psalms is.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: It's like David being real and then God transforming him through yeah the processing with God, right?
3:23
SPEAKER_00: That's really funny, but it's true.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: And God doesn't roll his eyes at us.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure he giggles at us sometimes.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: We have to be entertaining every now and then.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: But I think he he doesn't grow weary of us and he's not shaken by us.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I um it's comforting to know that I can throw him my crazy, and he's he's like, All right, Megan, let's let's work this out together, step by step, please.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Step by step.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: Um so envy, like the simple description of envy.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna start simple and then we're gonna build on it like we had the last two.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: So it might sound repetitive here and there, but it's gonna be deeper every time we go over it.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: So the simple um description of envy is I want what you have.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: It's looking at someone else's car, someone else's life, someone else's spouse, someone else's kids, someone else's body, someone else's whatever.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: And you say, I want what you have.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: Not I want that, I want that from you.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: I want to take that from you and take it for myself.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: That is envy, and that is in the Ten Commandments, and that is a sin.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: Right?
4:35
SPEAKER_00: Jealousy, on the other hand, is I want to protect what I have because I am afraid of losing it.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's very different.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we've been going through the book Um The Cry of the Soul by Dan Alender, and it's a great book, and it he breaks all of this down.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: So I can't say that this is all my idea and all my wisdom because it's not.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: But but I've learned so much from him in this book and the Bible.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: Um and so Allender defines envy as essentially a resentful desire for something another person possesses that we do not, and it looks outward and it thrives on comparison.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: That's why social media can be so dangerous sometimes.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: When you get in the comparison game, because envy very easily can creep into that.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: Especially when you have like those hard moments and then you just doom scroll, you're like just feeding the fire.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: Like it's awful.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: Why do we do it to ourselves?
5:37
SPEAKER_00: I did because we're dumb.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: That's a great answer.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: I said we.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: But jealousy, by contrast, is a desire to protect what we possess or we believe we possess from someone who might take it away.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: So jealousy is actually the opposite of envy.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: It's like fighting for it.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: It's protecting what is yours.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: Whereas envy is like, I'm gonna go in and take what is mine.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: Jealousy is saying, I'm gonna protect what is mine.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, which I had never really looked at it that way because I always thought that jealousy was the same as envy, really.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: I thought I looked at someone and I was jealous of what they had, and then I would have a bad attitude about it.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: Right.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: And jealousy is saying no, I had the wrong definition of jealousy.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: I was really just envying.
6:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:33
SPEAKER_01: Jealousy can go pretty far into that too.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure we'll get into it later.
6:37
SPEAKER_01: But I yeah, there is a difference.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: There's a big difference because the motive and the heart is different.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: And that's what the Lord looks at.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: So envy says, you have something I want.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: Jealousy says, I have something I don't want to lose.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: Envy says, focus on on what someone else has.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: And jealousy says, let me focus on what I have.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, envy is a resentful desire.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: Jealousy is a protective desire.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: Envy is comparison.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: Jealousy is a threat or a loss, right?
7:11
SPEAKER_00: Threat of losing.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: Envy says, why do they get that?
7:18
SPEAKER_00: Whereas jealousy says, what if they take this from me?
7:23
SPEAKER_00: And then envy says, or envy can pr produce resentment, and jealousy can produce possessiveness or hypervigilance.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's like the the further version.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: Yes, like the yes, because we can make it unrighteous, right?
7:38
SPEAKER_01: We can Oh yeah, we're real good at that.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're real good at that.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: We're real good at screwing up, screwing it up just a little bit.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: Um is there anything you want to add to that little piece before I keep going?
7:50
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: So, but there's a really interesting part to Alander's argument.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't just say jealousy is bad.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: He believes there can actually be a healthy form of jealousy.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: Because again, if God can be jealous, there has to be a healthy, holy form, right?
8:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: So for example, in marriage, jealousy can communicate and say, this relationship is precious, exclusive, and worth protecting.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: Right.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: So I have had couples come into my counseling office and they're like on the on the end of an affair, right?
8:24
SPEAKER_00: That an affair is just bubbled up and they're coming for help.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: And I had the the spouse who was cheated on was hyper-vigilant and and jealous and and struggling through his emotions.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: And she was remorseful and and re repented.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: But there was a moment where I looked at her and I said, Aren't you so glad he's jealous?
8:57
SPEAKER_00: And she just kind of looked at me and I said, Because that means he cares.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, and yes, he's gonna have to curb that he can't control you.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: Yes, he's gonna have to figure out how to bring this into a healthy level of I'm gonna protect my wife.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: How am I gonna protect my wife from this happening?
9:16
SPEAKER_00: How do I protect her heart?
9:18
SPEAKER_00: And so, and I think that way with about God.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: Like, how many times could he have given up on us, right?
9:25
SPEAKER_00: We have been so unfaithful to him.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: He is the groom, we're the bride.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: And the Bible is a story of us being unfaithful over and over and over and over and over again, and him redeeming us over and over and over and over and ever again because he's faithful to who he is.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: He can't, he doesn't change.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: But I'm so thankful.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: I would be terrified if I walked away from him and he didn't care.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: You know, and so as I was reading this and freshening up on this, I got emotional because I'm like, Lord, I'm so thankful that you protect your people passionately um because you're jealous for us.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: And you say this relationship is precious, exclusive, and worth protecting.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: So um Alander argues that human jealousy can reflect something of God's own jealousy, like I just said.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: So God is jealous because he passionately protects the exclusive relationship between himself and his people, and that is very different than possessiveness that says, You belong to me, therefore I get to control you.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: That is unholy and unrighteous.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: And God is so uncontrolling, it's kind of insane.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: What do you mean?
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, he gave us free will, yeah.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: Right?
10:40
SPEAKER_00: So he created all of us, he chose all of us, and he knew that not all of us would choose him back, but he took the risk and gave us that choice anyway because he wanted love to be genuine and not forced.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: Because a forced allegiance is not love at all.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: Right.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: I do think about um, like when it comes to a marriage relationship, like if if God even like talks about free will, gives us the free will, um, then who are we to overstep that line with another human?
11:19
SPEAKER_01: Like I think it's just it's dangerous.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: And it causes more stress in a relationship than than it should.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: But I love the passionately protects.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: Like that is different.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: And and right.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: It's righteous.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's righteous.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: And so, and that's what Alander says.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: He says, We don't possess our spouse, yeah, but we have the privilege of protecting the relationship.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: And that is two very different things.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: One is selfish and rooted in fear or ego, and the other is rooted in righteousness and and purpose.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: And not what can I gain for myself with this and control.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: But it's it's loving, which is not the same.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Um Larson, do you mind reading us the passage that I mean we had several passages, but one of the passages about the Lord being jealous?
12:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: So he he talks about in a lot of these passages, he talks about how he takes care of us and how he clothes us in Ezekiel.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: It talks about he clothes us um and he adorns us and he adores us.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: So he gives us so much.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: And then it talks about in Exodus how God is jealous, therefore, his people are warned not to go after other gods or put those in front of him.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: Um and he he calls us out all the way into James of saying, like, you adulterous people, do you not know that friendship with the world is in enmity with God?
12:57
SPEAKER_01: And it's followed by the idea that God yearns jealously over his people.
13:03
SPEAKER_01: So it's a righteous jealousy that he cares for us and he wants relationship with us.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, think, I mean, with our pea brains, try to think from God's perspective.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: We can't think from God's perspective, but just from what we know.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: God is God.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: He is the God of the cosmos.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: He created us.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: He's given us all these wonderful things.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: He's adorned us with his love.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: He's died to save our lives.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: He's sustained us every day we've been here.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: And he's never left us nor forsaken us, no matter how many times we failed him.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: He's nothing but good, nothing but faithful, nothing but righteous, nothing but holy, nothing but a protector and a provider.
13:46
SPEAKER_00: He has done nothing but good for us, and yet we still cheat on him with the world.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: I like in even in Deuteronomy 4 24, it says, For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: I love the thought of that because you've you know how fire consumes.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: Like it's an easy picture of seeing how how he loves us.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and he's so jealous for our love because he knows how precious that relationship is and how much he wants to protect it because if he doesn't, he knows where you're going.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: And what's tragic is you choose to go there.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: Like it's just crazy.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: So I was listening to um, oh gosh, I don't remember who it was.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: I can see the woman's face, but it was a podcast, and she was sharing a story about her dad, and he was not a good man, he was a wicked man.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: And um towards the end, he was dying.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: And she has a really sweet relationship with the Holy Spirit and hears his voice really well.
14:50
SPEAKER_00: But the Holy Spirit told her to go back and forgive her dad, and so she did.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: And she was in the room when he passed away, and she said that she felt the presence of the Lord so deeply, and that she asked the Lord, Why are you here?
15:06
SPEAKER_00: Like, why are you here with him?
15:08
SPEAKER_00: He hated you his whole life.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: He actually did live his whole life against you on purpose, right?
15:12
SPEAKER_00: He wasn't just lukewarm, he was wicked.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, why are you here?
15:16
SPEAKER_00: And the Lord spoke to her and said, Because I knew it was gonna be my last moment with him, and I love him.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, if we fully grasp the love of God in our lives, we would and like, and I'm guilty of it too, but I think that's why God is so jealous, because he knows how much goodness he wants to give us, and it breaks his heart.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: Like he he waits till the last possible second for you to cry out his name because he just wants you to choose him back.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: And that wrecked me when I heard it the other day.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: I was like, my goodness, but it and I know it's true, but sometimes you have to sit on it and meditate on it to think, my goodness, he's so good.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: So that's about jealousy.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: That's yeah, God's jealousy.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: So let's kind of shift into envy and what that is.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: So this is where it gets a little, it's all fascinating because I'm a nerd, but this gets interesting.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: So Alander connects envy to abandonment and the fear that God is not going to provide what you need.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: So envy asks, why did God give them that and not me?
16:26
SPEAKER_00: And that question can reveal something deeper.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: So, for example, is God actually good to me?
16:34
SPEAKER_00: Has God forgotten me?
16:37
SPEAKER_00: Is there enough for me?
16:39
SPEAKER_00: Do I have to compete with other people to get what I need?
16:44
SPEAKER_00: And that's why the emotion itself becomes a window into the soul rather than merely something to suppress.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: And that's why it's so important to bring it to God, even if you know it's sinful.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: You bring it to Him and say, Lord, what is what is this?
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Help me see it, help me heal it, help me transform my heart so that it's not envy, but that I believe the truth.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: And the truth is that you are good to me.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: You have not forgotten me.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: There is enough for me, and I don't have to compete or perform to earn your love, right?
17:12
SPEAKER_00: But you can't do that unless you're real about what you're feeling and you give it to him.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he he references it in the book of like, but dark desire can capture our hearts.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: And that's that was that was something I highlighted in the book for me.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: Because desire is a good thing.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: When it's given by God and when we channel it towards him.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: But again, when we get in our own way, yeah, it can become dark.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: Um so Psalm 73, uh, there's a great example where ASAP looks at the prosperity of the wicked people and becomes consumed by what they have.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, which is so easy to do.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: Like you I know so many Christians who are walking the walk and they're like, why is this so hard?
18:03
SPEAKER_00: And Joe Schmoe, who's cheating everyone in his life, is living high, right?
18:09
SPEAKER_00: Like, what is going on here?
18:10
SPEAKER_00: So, um, but the problem isn't simply I wish I had more money.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: His envy begins to distort his reality.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: And the people he envies start looking like they have everything, right?
18:25
SPEAKER_00: They look like they have no suffering or no problems or perfect lives, while ASAF sees himself as the only one who is losing.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: ASAP says they have no struggles.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: Their bodies are healthy and strong.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: They're free from common human burdens, they are not plagued by human ills.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: This is what the wicked are like, always free of care.
18:43
SPEAKER_01: They go on amassing wealth.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: So he like just lays it all out there for the Lord.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: And that's how he feels.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: And that's how we feel.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: That is so relatable.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: Like you look at like who's someone famous?
18:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm like blanking right now.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: Taylor Swift.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: You look at Taylor Swift and you're like, wow, she's beautiful.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: She has all the money in the world, she has no worries.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: And that's not true.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: No.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: Because she's human.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: Distorted reality for sure.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: Distorted reality, right?
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Or or you look at, you know, whoever you idolize.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like Jeff Bezos or whoever you look up to and say, wow, that they've made it in business.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Yeah, you don't know, you don't know.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: New new levels, new demons, right?
19:23
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: That could be stuff they had to step on on the way there.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: And and but God knows.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: And God takes into account.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: And what and I love that the Bible talks about like store your treasure in heaven.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: Live like you are storing treasure in heaven because God sees all the things that no one else does, and that's those are the jewels in your crown.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: And one day, these cajillionaires are going to die and leave everything here.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: Like they came into this world naked and they leave it here.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: What I don't remember if it was this book or something else I heard.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember, but it might have been the uh podcast between Philip Anthony Mitchell and um Josh Howarton.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh but it was something like can't connect, can't connect your what was it, like your trailer to your cat uh coffin is what he said.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Can't connect your trailer of stuff to your coffin.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember who said it, but yeah.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: I thought it was funny.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: I was like, eh, that's actually kind of funny.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: And and having wealth and working hard is not a bad thing.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: We need Christians who are successful.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: We need them.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: And we're called to be excellent in all that we do.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: What we're talking about is do not get so caught up in the next plastic surgery you need, or the next outfit you need, or the next event you need to go to, or the next whatever.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: Like pause for a moment and think about what are my treasures?
20:54
SPEAKER_00: What do I treasure?
20:55
SPEAKER_00: And what am I doing for the Lord?
20:56
SPEAKER_00: And what am I doing that only He sees?
21:00
SPEAKER_00: Because those are the things that matter.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: And when you live that way, you get to heaven, and the people who are high rolling in heaven are the are the lowly here, usually.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: It's the ones you don't expect, right?
21:13
SPEAKER_00: And so it's just a beautiful and hopeful picture for people to run your course and run your race and and and don't get caught up in the envy because it just wastes his time and energy.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: But when you do, bring it to the Lord so he can tell you the truth.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: ASAP, I don't I might be jumping ahead, but he finally like came to like peace with God when and he says it in it says it in the Bible.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: It says, Yet I am always with you.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: You hold me by my right hand, you guide me with your counsel, and afterward you you will take me into glory.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: Who am I who have I in heaven but you, and earth has nothing I desire besides you?
21:57
SPEAKER_01: My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Of my heart and my portion forever.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: And then it just keeps going.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: And that's the end of the same psalm, correct?
22:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: So that's why it's so important.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: So the psalm starts with him pouring his heart out, saying, This isn't fair.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like that comfort place where you can talk to the Lord.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: You dump it out.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: But then by the end of it, the Lord transformed his perspective.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: Exactly what we said earlier.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: And then and then it turns around and says, But Lord, you are all, you are my treasure.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: I have everything if I have you.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: I have started doing a private study on my own, and I might, I'm thinking about writing a devotional book about it because it's been so impactful for me.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: But the significance of what it means to be at your right hand and how many times it's brought up in the Bible.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: Um there is it is a place of power, a place of honor, and a place of intimacy.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: And we have that with the God of the universe.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: So what in the world does this world have to offer that isn't better than that?
22:56
SPEAKER_00: And so it's just it's beautiful perspective shift.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: And that's a beautiful example of you can bring it to God, He's not gonna judge you, but He's gonna correct you.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: And you're gonna find freedom from it.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: Um So yeah.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: So envy doesn't just make us desire someone else's life.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: It can make us, it can make someone else's life look better than it actually is, and make our own life look worse than it actually is.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: And that is a big deal in counseling, perspective and reframing.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: We talk about that all the time.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: Um because when someone says she has the marriage I should have, or her kids are better behaved, or she has the ministry I wish I had, or everyone likes him more, or she has the body I want, or God keeps blessing everyone except me.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: Um and Alander encourages people to get curious about the story underneath the comparison.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: So, for example, not just why am I jealous, but ask yourself, what am I longing for?
24:02
SPEAKER_00: What do I believe um her possession of that thing says about me?
24:09
SPEAKER_00: So what do I believe that God is withholding from me?
24:13
SPEAKER_00: And then you bring that to him.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you say, Lord, are you?
24:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is what I believe, this is how I'm operating.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: But what what is your heart?
24:21
SPEAKER_00: What do you say?
24:24
SPEAKER_00: So envy can move from desire to comparison to resentment to distortion and then to obsession.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: It can become an obsession.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: It's like it's like whenever you um see something that you want and then you see it everywhere and you're like, I gotta have it.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, it gets ups you get obsessed about it.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: I have a s an example of someone I knew um in college, and so she dated this guy.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: They broke up, he started dating a new girl.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: And she became a stalker.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: Borderline.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: Like she I mean, it happens, right?
25:04
SPEAKER_00: Well, first she became it was weird because she wasn't obsessed with him, she became obsessed with her.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: And she became obsessed with how she looked, and she became obsessed with what workouts she did.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: She became obsessed with what music she listened to, where she went, what her hobbies were.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden she starts looking like this girl and dressing like this girl and acting like this girl, all the while saying she hates this girl.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: Scary, yeah, and how much of a jerk that this guy is when she ultimately realized that she wanted to be her.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: So it became an obsession.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: And she was saying, comparing her life to someone else, and she wanted to be her with this boy, but she was too prideful to just say she liked this boy and she was jealous of this girl.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: Right.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: And so she's like, Well, if he desires that, I'll become desirable.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: Which is so thwarted thinking, probably not.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: And it's actually the opposite.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're gonna repulse people.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: That's so, but that is a perfect example of she lost herself in it and she completely lost her value and her worth and her joy and her peace because she was comparing herself to something that wasn't hers.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like that because that's that I mean, I don't like it, but you know what I mean.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: I like that you said that because it it even says in the book, it says earthly desire strives to possess, hoard, and defend um against hunger, uncertainty, and injustice, as if they were no there were no God, or at least no God worthy of our worship.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: But heavenly desire strives not to possess, but to create.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: And I love I love that part.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: I I'd never really thought of it that way.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: So reflecting the creator's glory in works of beauty and excellence seeks not to hoard, but to give, not to protect personal status, but to bless.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: And I which is totally opposite.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: When you think of jealousy, you don't think of that.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, not at all.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: So read that one more time.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so earthly desire strives to possess, hoard, and defend against hunger, uncertainty, and injustice as if there were no God, or at least no God worthy of our worship, right?
27:13
SPEAKER_01: Because we don't think that he can take care of it.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: But heavenly desire strives not to possess, but to create, reflecting the creator's glory in works of beauty and excellence.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: It seeks not to hoard, but to give, not to protect personal status, but to bless others.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: A great book is The Journey of Desire by John Eldridge, and it's a lot about that.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: Um or God, that is God-given desire because it we are in his image because we're creating and pumping out beauty and life and glory into the world.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: And but our desires align with it.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: When our desires align with God's will, like I said a few podcasts ago, it lights us up.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: And that's what happens is we we come alive, yeah, and life comes out of us.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: Whereas when it's a dark desire, it brings death.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: Literally.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, it will bring death to relationships, actual death, like death to identity, death to a business.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: Because you're hoarding and selfish and greedy, and then ultimately you're your own demise.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: Like you, yeah, like you said earlier, we think God won't provide for us.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: But it does, it it can like I feel like it's the enemy's playground sometimes in our mind, and we have to rebuke that in Jesus' name because that is that's where we get to this point.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: Of where we feel like we need, we need, we need.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: And a great place to start is read Psalm 73.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Pray it over yourself.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and ask the Lord to shift your perspective.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: A great example of obsession in the Bible is Saul with David.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: So uh initially he loved David.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, but after hearing that the people were praising David and David was coming a crowd becoming a crowd favorite, King Saul became increasingly threatened by him.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: So what began as comparison developed into an obsession.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: And an obsessive jealousy and eventually violence.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: He tried to kill him.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: Multiple times.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: Multiple times.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: Hunted him.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, when at one point he called him his son.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: You know, and so it's it's envy will take you to a very dark place if you don't bring it to the Lord.
29:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, so Alander isn't saying don't ever feel envy or jealousy.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: Because you feelings are feelings.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: They're lights on a dashboard, they're not inherently good or bad.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: It's what you do with them.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: So he's saying, listen to what the emotion is telling you about your heart's deepest desires and your view of God.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, emotions aren't a problem to eliminate, they become invitations to encounter God more honestly.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: And so um so envy this is kind of two questions, and we'll end on this.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: So Alander says, you can put this framework into two questions.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: So envy asks, what does she have or he have that I believe I need in order to be okay?
30:16
SPEAKER_00: And then jealousy says, What do I have that I'm afraid I will lose?
30:22
SPEAKER_00: But then underneath both, the question is, what does this reveal about what I believe about God's goodness, provision, protection, and presence?
30:36
SPEAKER_00: And that's the beginning of growth and healing.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: That's that's when you get down to the root of why is this emotion here?
30:46
SPEAKER_00: So you see the check engine light, but you gotta go to the dealership to figure out what's wrong.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: Right.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: So you see this emotion pops up, you go to your creator to figure out what's going on, and then you ask these questions and you get to the root and you say, God, what does this say about what I believe about you?
31:04
SPEAKER_00: And change, change what is wrong with that.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: And I think, I think um in Revelation, I know you love Revelation.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: Um Revelation for a year.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: The book uh references it, but it says, Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: To the one who is victorious, I will give some of the hidden manna.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: I will also give that person a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to the one who receives it.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: So heaven will hold a private encounter with God.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: At some point, we will taste pleasure beyond words.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: We will also receive a stone pure and perfect, and on it will be a name just for us that only us and God know.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be amazing.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and like it's it's so perfect.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: So, like, as a believer, we do have to keep that in mind whenever we're, you know, getting our thoughts twisted sometimes by these types of things.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: We have to remember, like we already have it all, yeah.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we already have it all.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: Preach.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: So it's just we get to experience them every day.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: We get to experience them every day, and then we get the fullness of them one day.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: And so it's like we we think we want these things, and that is why his jealousy.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: So so often in the Bible, in counseling, we say, you know, if you're having a huge reaction to something that's kind of small, there's probably something underneath it, right?
32:32
SPEAKER_00: When God is jealous, his reaction looks massive in comparison to what's going on.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a bit but but his emotions are holy and pure.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: So if his reaction is that big, then he knows so much more than we do about what we're missing out on.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: Right.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: And so he is so jealous for you to have that moment with him because he knows how good it is and he wants to give it to you.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: And so when you think of the Lord being jealous for your heart, that should just melt your heart.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: Because he he's doing everything in his power to make sure you get that moment.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: So my question is why not surrender?
33:15
SPEAKER_00: Why not?
33:17
SPEAKER_01: I love an answer.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: Why not?
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that's it on Envy and Jealousy.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: But that's a good one.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: Do you want to pray us out?
33:28
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: My voice has been cracking like a 12-year-old boy this whole time.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna let you pray.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: Lord, thank you so much.
33:36
SPEAKER_01: Just for us being able to dive into these two things, God, that I didn't know I would learn so much from.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, but you have revealed it and I'm thankful for that.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: And I hope I pray that whoever is listening also feels the same way, God.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: But I pray that we can reassess, like have that inventory that we talked about and reassess what we're focused on, God, and what we are walking through, what is of you, what is not of you.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: God, give us the wisdom for that, please.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: And I know that you will.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: You come through for us every single time.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: And we are so thankful for that.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: And God, I pray over every person that is listening, Lord, that you will give them wisdom and strength and peace throughout the week, and you will help them to turn to you, Lord, first, to talk to you and be their authentic raw self with you.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: That we will all be our authentic raw self with you, and you will direct um our thoughts and you will shift our focus to what is of you.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: In Jesus' name we pray.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
34:40
unknown: Amen.