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Should the 2027 Pirates include Brandon Lowe and Murf Gray? · Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Bucko
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Territory presented to you by the Foul Territory Network. I'm
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Noah Hiles. Joining me, as always, are my co-hosts Josh
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Harrison and Platinum Key, a.k.a.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Mark.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: It is Wednesday, August 26th. Pirates, we don't know what
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: happened last night because these games are on late and,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: you know... We got stuff going on. So we're recording
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: this Tuesday afternoon. It's a bit of an evergreen show,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: but I still think it's a show that Pirates fans
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: are going to want to listen to. We're going to
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: talk about some interesting topics today. First one being Brandon Lau.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: He's been their best hitter this year, pretty much their
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: best player, but he's a free agent at the end
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: of the season. What are the Pirates going to do
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: about that? Second is Murph Gray, probably the breakout prospect
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: for the Pirates this year. I mean, you could call
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Seth Hernandez a breakout prospect. He was expected to be
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: that good. Murph Gray, top 100 guy in AA. We're
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: going to talk about his future with the club. And
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: then last but certainly not least, we're going to talk
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: about Mason Montgomery, who had another really good outing Monday evening.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: He's been nails, really, for the last couple of months.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about his stock. But guys,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: like I said, we're beginning the show talking about Brandon Lau.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: He is one of the best offensive players in the
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: National League, especially at his position. He's probably going to
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: finish this year with 30 home runs. Um, he's been
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: consistent at the plate, especially against right-handers and he's had
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: his best year defensively as a big leaguer. Um, this
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: comes at a year where the pirates needed it. It's
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: unfortunate that the rest of the team couldn't kind of
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: match it. Uh, but it also comes at a year
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: where he's heading into free agency and boy, oh boy,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: is he going to get paid? Um, if you look
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: at the year prior to last two, I mean, he
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: had a really good season. in Tampa Bay in 25,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: and he builds off of that back-to-back career highs and
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: home runs going into free agency. Josh, you can't draw
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: that up much any better, huh?
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: No, he's going to be sitting in a good spot,
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: and rightfully so.
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: That's what players, I don't want to say ultimately want
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: to do, because ultimately you want to win a championship,
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: but also you only get to play this game for
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: you know, however long you're, you're allowed to, and you
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: want to maximize your earning potential. And he's going to
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: be a free agent and, um, not knowing what this
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: off season is going to hold, which you never know
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: what any off season is going to hold. You just
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: only hope to be going to the free agency after
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: putting up, you know, a pretty good year. And, uh,
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: he's done that, you know, as you mentioned, career home
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: run highs and back-to-back years. So, um, it'll be interesting
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: to see what happens with him in the, in the
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: off season. And, or, you know, if it even gets
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: to the off season, you know, things there's one team
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: he'll be able to talk to before, you know, a
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: certain date. So be interesting to see, but for him,
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: he's done what every player in his position will want
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: to do is, you know, be having the year that
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: he's having going into free agency, whether you're a pitcher
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: or a position player.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, Mark, I'm going to ask you, I just
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: wanted to pick your brain on this with Lau. Obviously,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: as a Pirates fan, you would love to see Brandon
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Lau back on this team next year and the year
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: moving forward. But you also have to be realistic about
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: the market that he has right now. And this isn't
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: a player that it's like, oh, okay, well, if the
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Pirates just spent a little more, they could keep him.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: They're going to be competing against the likes of the Yankees,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: the Dodgers, really every team in Major League Baseball with
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: any type of bankroll. this is the type of player
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: they're going to attract. Because, I mean, obviously, he has
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: a shelf life at second base, I think. I mean,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: he's in his 30s now. He's not going to be
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: playing there forever, although he had a really good year
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: there defensively. But you're looking for that lefty bat that
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: can slot over maybe to first base. You could DH him.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: And honestly, even if you are going to have subpar
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: defense at second base, that's a position where you look
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: at it and say, if you're hitting 30 home runs,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: we'll live with.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: It, man. You can overlook it, right? You're overlooking it.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: This is a guy who's going to be able to
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: demand probably four years, at least, in free agency. I mean,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: depending on what the offseason looks like, obviously, this year's
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: shortened offseason might lead to him to only have to
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: sign a one-year deal temporarily and then go through all
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: this again, which would suck for Brandon Lau. And honestly,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: that might be the only hope that the Pirates have
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: to get him back. But Mark, I just wanted to
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: ask you, when you consider the size of investment, and
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: I don't want to speculate on the numbers because it's
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: really hard to kind of piece together what his overall
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: offer sheet might look like based off of the offseason,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: but he's going to be the highest paid infielder probably
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: this offseason. Does that even make sense for the Pirates?
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Or are you getting to a point with Lau where
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: it's just like, if you spend that much money on him,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Are you killing any chance of an extension with Bubba Chandler,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: O'Neal Cruz. Would it even be worth extending those guys?
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Are you able to address other areas of the team,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: which we've kind of highlighted, like they might need a catcher,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: they might need a third baseman or other outfielder help
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: or other pitching. And if you're putting all this money
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: toward Lau, who, yes, is really good, but they also
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: have other really good left-handed bats and other guys who
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: can play second base. Does it make sense for them
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: to throw all of their money into the Brandon Lau basket?
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah, unfortunately, that money's probably better spent elsewhere. I think
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: you'll see the Pirates offer him a qualifying offer, the
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: one-year $ 22 million, $ 23 million. I don't think that's going
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: to be enough for him to sign. This is his
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: first free agency. I'm guessing he's going to want a
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: multi-year deal. So while that AAB might be around where
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: he signs at that $ 22, $ 23 million range, I think
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: he's going to go for the years, the protection. And
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: I don't know if the Pirates can afford that, especially
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: when you're looking at what they have as options. We
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: saw Nick Gonzalez take a big step forward offensively. You
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: could slot him at second base, and I would feel
• 6:07
  Speaker 5: pretty good about that. So the fall off between Lau
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: and Gonzalez, yeah, there's a gap, obviously. But is that
• 6:14
  Speaker 5: gap worth spending $ 25 million plus for the next four
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: years on? And kind of handicapping yourself, because we know
• 6:22
  Speaker 5: the Pirates just don't have the same budget other teams have.
• 6:26
  Speaker 5: So if you can get Lau for one year, I
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: think that's awesome, especially with the window that the Pirates
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: are in. I just don't think that's going to line
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: up for him. So Pirates will offer that qualifying offer,
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: take the competitive balance pick, and say, hey, they got
• 6:43
  Speaker 5: a great year out of him. I do love the
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: fit of Brandon Lau with his clubhouse. He really seems
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: to get along well with all the guys. Like, I
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: know his wife and, like, Brian Reynolds' wife have, like,
• 6:53
  Speaker 5: a prayer group they go to together and stuff. So
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: it seems like he really is, like, meshed with his clubhouse.
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: So from that angle, like, his leadership that he provides,
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: I really, really think that he brings value. But that's
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: a lot to spend $ 25 million on if you're the Pirates.
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: So as much as it hurts to say, as valuable
• 7:13
  Speaker 5: as he's been this year, I feel like the Pirates
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: might be able to spend that money elsewhere. But we've
• 7:18
  Speaker 5: also seen... how much they have to overpay free agents
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: to get them to come to Pittsburgh. So if you
• 7:23
  Speaker 5: already have a guy that likes it and is willing
• 7:25
  Speaker 5: to maybe not sign for maximum market value because he's
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: comfortable here, maybe that makes sense. But it seems like
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: there's probably a better fit elsewhere.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: For that money.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: The qualifying offer thing is interesting to me because it
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: might like, if he's looking around and it's like, well,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: how much time will I even have to negotiate a
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: multi-year deal this off season? So he might be more
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: inclined to just be like, all right, let's run it back. Like,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: which no one in free agency, when you're entering free
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: agency for the first time, the idea of signing a
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: one-year deal is like the last thing you want.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Literally. Yeah.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: I'm saying that to a guy who kind of had
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: to do that, but it's just, that's tough, man. And, and, Josh,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: you could speak on that. I mean, if you were
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: in his shoes, is that something, and I'm not telling,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: I'm not asking you to tell Brandon Lau what to do,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: but put yourself in his shoes. You're playing the best
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: ball of your life. You're getting free agent, getting to
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: free agency for the first time. There's an impending lockout.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Does that qualifying offer look any different to you or
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: are you still holding strong?
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: Um, that is a tough question.
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: Um, cause at the end of the day, security is
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: something that, you know, guys are looking for. And with
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: the uncertainty of next season, he's going to be in
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: a situation where, you know, as I said, when I
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: spoke earlier, the Pirates will be the only team that
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: can talk to him up until that time, I believe.
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: So it's going to put him in a position, but
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: at the same time, Mark May points to where he
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: spoke on, you know, maybe he likes it here and
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: you don't know the, you know, what's to come for,
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: you know, the CBA say that the Pirates were to
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: offer him something that he felt was fair market value.
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: And he's like, you know what, I'm going to pull
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: the trigger. But it does, I don't think he takes
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: a qualifying offer just knowing that he'll be the, you know,
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: most coveted infield bat. So he actually has, you know,
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: what everybody would want is the ball. Ball is in
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: his corner.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: Yep. Only time he'd do that is if.
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: He's like, I'm going to do it one year and
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: I would really like to, but I don't think nobody
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: is setting out to do that. As I said, the
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: ball's in his corner and he's got every right to
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: kind of want to set the market, whether the CBA
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: comes to an agreement before or after and however that looks,
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: who knows. But I think, as I said, going into
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: free agency for your first time, he's done what he
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: would have hoped to have done, and I don't really
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: see him settling for a one-year deal, even with the
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: uncertainty of what the offseason is to bring.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, I just look at his game, and I
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: think the New York Yankees are going.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: To be all over him.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: I mean, all over him.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The fact that he's played in that division too
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: doesn't help. But then to close this off, I'm just
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: looking here. I know fans do not want to see
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Brandon Lau go, but at the end of the day,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Brandon Lau's best asset is his bat. He has a
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: 114 OPS plus. Nick Gonzalez has a 110. So you're not,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know you're losing home runs and I
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: understand that home runs are a big thing here, but
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: they have left-handed bats who can put the ball over
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: the fence. And if you're pretty much getting the same
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: production from a guy who Nick has been horrible defensively
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: at third base. He's going to play a lot more
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: second base next year, and he'll probably be better defensively.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Why is he going to be playing second base next year?
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Because the Pirates might have their third baseman of the future.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: We're going to talk about him next. His name's Murph
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Gray here on Bucko Territory.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: Bella.
• 11:11
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• 11:14
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• 11:16
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• 11:17
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• 12:11
  Speaker 1: All right, every year in every organization, there's one guy
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: that has a breakout campaign. And I guess there have
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: been a couple in this organization this year, but I
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: would say as far as position players are concerned, it's
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: been Murph Gray, who's been leading the charge. Guy who
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: was a comp B pick in last year's draft class
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: at a Fresno State. Big body, third baseman, corner infielder.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Started the year in high A and... Actually, he might
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: have started in Bradenton. Yeah, he started in Bradenton.
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: Played like 40 games in Bradenton and then 40 in Greensboro.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's now playing in Altoona. And the guy's
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: had about as good of a year as you could
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: ask for. Slashing. 302,. 403 with. 563. That equates to a.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: 966 OPS over 109 games, 480 plate appearances, 485 plate appearances.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: 28 home runs along those levels. He looks like he's
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: going to be a major leaguer next year. He's a
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: top 100 prospect. He's 22 years old. He's crushing the ball.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: And if you've been paying attention to Major League Baseball,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: when you have that type of trajectory, you look at
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: the Altoona Curves roster last year at this time, their
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: shortstop was Connor Griffin. Their right fielder was Esmeralda Valdez.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: A lot of the guys in the rotation and in
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: the bullpen have said, been major leaguers this year. If
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: you're in AA at 22 and you're showing progress and
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: you're a top 100 rated prospect, you are knocking on
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: the big league door. It's a little different than it was,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: you know, a decade or two ago. So I bring
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: this to the table here by asking, you guys, what
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: is the plan for Murph gray next year? What should
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: it be? And it's going to be something, obviously we
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: talk about a lot in the off season, but I
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: think it's good, a good time to start talking about
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: it now, because clearly they don't have a third baseman
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: worth building around. They have guys who they have one
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: guy who plays third base very well defensively. They have
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: another guy who's had a very solid offensive season that
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: cannot play third base, but has been asked to play
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: third base. Um, he'll probably be playing second base next year.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: So yeah, When you look at this team's needs, they
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: might have a little bit of money they can spend.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: What do you spend it on? Do you, do you
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: go get a left-handed third baseman? And that way you
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: could platoon him with gray when he's up. Do you
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: bank on gray being your everyday third baseman, or is
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: he even good enough to do that? Should he be
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: viewed as an auxiliary piece? You know, someone you can
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: kind of add into the fold later into the year. Um,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: we'll start with Mark on this one. What do you
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: think is Murph gray? Is it Murph gray's job to lose?
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: heading into 2027?
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: I think it's closer to the latter right now where
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: he's still building up. I don't think you're going to
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: slot him in as your opening day third baseman quite yet.
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: He's transitioned all right in AA. He only has an
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: 800 OPS right now. So he's still learning AA. Obviously,
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: there's a big jump in the level of talent for
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: pitching from high A to AA. So he's adjusting there,
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: and that's what you'd expect. But the body of work
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: he's put in this year is extremely encouraging. I've heard
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: a lot of really good things about Murph Gray. I've
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: had people from Fresno State sending me direct messages just
• 15:38
  Speaker 5: being like, you've got to keep an eye on this kid.
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: He is a baller. He's going to work his ass off.
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: He's going to be a really, really key part of
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: this Pirates franchise moving forward. My only concern is he's
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: not necessarily probably going to stick at third baseman or
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: at third base. Like you mentioned earlier, big body guy
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: kind of lacks the quickness a little bit that you
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: need at third base. Obviously, if you're hitting 28 home
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: runs and have that kind of power, you can accept
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: a little bit of defensive, you know, woes at third base,
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: but we've also seen how much that can impact the
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: team this year, where you trade offense at third base
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: with Nick Gonzalez for really concerning defense and it might
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: not be the best play. Um, my only other concern is, uh,
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: there really aren't too many third base options available. Um,
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: I just pulled up on the screen on the YouTube here, uh,
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: where you look at like Alec Boehm, uh, Eugenio Suarez,
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: like a lot of the names that we talked about
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: this past off season that really aren't going to be
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: too exciting. Um, so if, if I were the pirates,
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: I would probably ride with Jared Triolo. Um, for the
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: start of the year until Murph gray figures out pitching
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: and then call them up probably mid June, mid July, um,
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: and see what you got.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll chime in here real quick. And then I
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: want to cue Josh up with the question. Um, I
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: just think that when you're reserving positions for guys in
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: the minor leagues, it needs to come with a certain pedigree.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: I had no problem with them reserving shortstop for Connor
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Griffin this year. Because Connor Griffin was a generational talent.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Murph Gray is a very intriguing prospect. But there is
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: a staunch difference, a stark difference, between the number one
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: prospect in baseball in quite some time, candidly, versus where
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Murph Gray is right now. Murph Gray, I mean, we've
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: seen a lot of guys who were top 100 prospects
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: not pan out. And by... Being reluctant to address a
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: certain position by just already saying, well, that's our answer there.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: That puts a lot of pressure on a guy's shoulders. And,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm not saying Murph Gray can or can't
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: handle that. And I'm not saying they need to go
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: out and trade for Alex Bregman or something. But I
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: think they'd be... I don't think they should just stand pat,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: but I think they would be better off getting, again,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: a utility guy. Again, we've mentioned his name a million times,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: but someone like a Willie Castro, someone who's a switch hitter,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: who can play there, but then also provide value elsewhere.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: And this is where Jared Triolo, if he could ever
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: figure out how to hit, would be so valuable because
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: he could hold down that fort. But I don't know
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: if you're doing your team right by just banking on
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: him to be a good offensive player because he just
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: hasn't been throughout his career. So I think you spend
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: a little money there on a guy that, assuming something
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: goes south with Murph Gray, what if he does hit
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: a plateau? What if he gets hurt? You want to
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: still go out and get a guy where it's like,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: at the very least, he can be a platoon at
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: third base this whole year and we're comfortable with that
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: if Murph Gray isn't there. And if Murph Gray is ready,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: then you have a guy where it's like, I don't
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: care if this guy gets benched for Murph Gray, or
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: if this guy gets moved into a utility role for
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Murph Gray, or if this guy that we got, Murph Gray,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: he's our third baseman. This guy that we got, if
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: he's a real utility guy, he can slot into wherever
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: we have an injury elsewhere on the field. That's the
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: approach that I would go with. And then my question
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: for Josh is, Josh, I mean, can you just talk
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: about when you're in AA, obviously, you start smelling... the,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: you start smelling the big league food, you know, from,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: from not far away. Like it's, it's, that's the big jump, right?
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Can you just talk about what it's like to get
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: that first experience? Like Mark pointed guy has an 800
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: OPS and double a has been read it for Ben
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: promoted three times this year. And he's looking around me seeing,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Hey man, guys, you're in double a at my age.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: They're in the major leagues pretty soon, especially when they're
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: balling the way I'm balling, take us into the mind
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: of a young player like that. And how do you
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: stay focused when it seems like everything's going your way?
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: Man, times have certainly changed. You mentioned he's made three
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: level jumps. That in itself is some quick change. Obviously,
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: if you're having success in today's game, they're going to
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: push you forward, which isn't a bad thing. Um, cause
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: obviously you want guys to be challenged, but you, you
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: also look at when you say a difference in how,
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: you know, development and things went when I was in
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: double a, um, I was there for a year, even
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: though I was two steps away, I was there for
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: a year. I think I hit 300, had like 75 RBIs,
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: went to the fall league, but I ended up debuting
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: the next year. But as you mentioned, you know, double
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: a is like, okay, you literally got one level between
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: you and the big league. So, you know, that, as
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: you mentioned, you're really knocking on the door. And even
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: more so in today's game, you're really knocking on the door,
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: especially as fast as they progress, guys. Because the one
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: thing that I was going to say is, as he's
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: having this success, as a lot of younger players are today,
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: my biggest concern with that for them is a lot
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: of them aren't experiencing their first experience of struggle or
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: hardship Yeah. Until they get to the highest level, which
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: is the dog eat dog level. And I think some
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: of that, you know, struggle factor has to be done
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: a little bit in the lower levels. But as you mentioned,
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: they're progressing guys really fast. And if they're showing signs
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: of having success, I get it. But I am a
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: firm believer that you, you do have to see how
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: people handle adversity and, As you mentioned, I wouldn't put
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: all my eggs in one basket. Not saying that Murph
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: Gray can't continue to do the same thing and be
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: up next year and, you know, really make the decision.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Tough on the Pirates.
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: But Noah, you were right in the assessment as you
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: got to go get somebody that could potentially end up
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: being bounced around if he continues on his trajectory. But
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: you also don't want to bank on that. And, you know,
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: he hits a little struggle patch and then you see
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: a completely different side of a guy that's like, dang, man,
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: maybe this guy, you know, might not be as tough mentally.
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying that for Murph Gray, but.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: These are things that a lot of younger players in
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: today's game aren't getting until they get to the big leagues.
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: And by then, it's like if you haven't figured out
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: how to deal with failure, it's going to be harder
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: for these guys to make that bounce back exactly.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: He's been a pro for one year. That's, I think,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: the big takeaway that a lot of people need to
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: realize is just because he's in AA. I mean, how
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: many years of pro ball did you play before you
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: got to AA, Josh? Probably at least a couple, right?
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: Like a year and a half.
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: I mean, I speak as a guy that was a
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: little different in that time, though. I was drafted 08
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: in AA 2010, but I was also traded.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: I was in a trade as well.
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: So when I was traded, it was pretty much like
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: you're going to be a part of our future plans.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: And I played well too.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: You know, but as I said, in 2010, I was
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: in AA the whole season. And I mean, played well,
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: but I think we had one player moved up the
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: whole year.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: It was Alex Presley.
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: And I believe, I mean, we won the Eastern League Championship,
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: but I'm pretty sure we had one player moved up.
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: And not to say, obviously, a couple injuries here and there,
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: but we literally had like maybe one or two guys.
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: And it was like, yeah, you were in AA, you
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: were staying. But, you know, for the most part, you know,
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: today's game has changed, which isn't bad, but at the
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: same time, it's going to be a give and take.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's, this is his first real off season
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: as a pro. Last year, he's gone from college to pro.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Now he has a year's worth of lessons to build
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: off of, and you see how they build off of it.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Some guys, they get better. Some guys, they get complacent,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: and they end up getting worse because of it. I'm
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: not saying which is going to happen for Murph Gray,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: but it seems like you probably should let that unfold
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: before you put all your eggs into that basket. We're
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: going to take another break, and then we will conclude
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: today's show with a quick segment on Mason Montgomery when
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: we come back here on Bucko Territory.
• 24:10
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• 25:10
  Speaker 1: All right. Final segment here. Mason Montgomery. We don't have
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: to talk about this a ton, guys, but I just
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: wanted to bring it up. He's been lights out, as
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: we said at the beginning of the show. He's been
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: super effective. I mean, you look at that savant page.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: That's a savant page of a closer right there. And
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: I know... We'll remember, at least for now, we'll remember
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: that Mike Burrow's trade is the trade that brought Brandon
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Lau here, and Mangum's been an impact player as well.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: But in the long run, that might be the trade
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: that brought Mason Montgomery, a future All-Star closer, to Pittsburgh.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: And it's funny how that works out. I just want
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: to ask you guys, in a year where not everything
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: went according to plan as far as pitching is concerned,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: obviously they had two starters in the All-Star game. Braxton
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Ashcraft took a big step forward, but... Would it be
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: fair to say Mason Montgomery had just as big of
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: a step forward this year? And looking ahead, Ashcraft's going
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: to be more valuable because he's a starter. But when
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: you consider what plagued the Pirates this year, the bullpen
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: probably won't be as big of an issue next year
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: because of A, the trades that they made, and B,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: it looks like they found their high leverage guy for
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: the foreseeable future in Mason Montgomery.
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah. He has a 1.15 ERA since the All-Star break.
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: He has just been absolute nails. And it's nice to
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: finally have that confidence in the back end of the bullpen.
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: And I think that's maybe the biggest impact he's had
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: where I know as a fan, when I see him
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: come out, I'm like, all right, this is, we're going
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: to get these three outs or whatever have you and
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: get out of this without giving up a run. I
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: know the players have to be feeling that as well.
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: So it's really refreshing after the first half of the year,
• 26:54
  Speaker 5: the way the bullpen has Just had issues after issues,
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: blown save after blown save. Cost this team so many wins.
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: Now you have this guy who was probably the third
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: piece in the trade.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: And just like, oh, yeah, we're adding a lefty bullpen
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: guy who he can throw heat but can't control it
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: at all. And, yeah, he still kind of has the
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: same control issues we talked about when the trade happened.
• 27:19
  Speaker 5: But he's really found a way to work through that
• 27:21
  Speaker 5: and also just get guys to whiff if he does miss.
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: So I'm absolutely loving the development of Mason Montgomery. It
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: feels awesome. We wanted a dominant Mason M for our
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: closer as the fan base. And we found one may
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: not be the Miller that we were looking for, but
• 27:38
  Speaker 5: I'll take the Montgomery pretty awesome. So Josh, what are
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: your thoughts?
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was just going to say from a standpoint
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: of when we, you know, highlighted the trade from this
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: off season and, I just remember the conversation being this
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: guy has a power arm, electric fastball, but questionable on
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: his control. And obviously, like you said, Mark, he's worked
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: through some things. As you said, still not the greatest
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: walk percentage. But outside of that, though, you look at
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: the numbers, it's off the charts. And that's kind of
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: what you would hope. And especially in a situation where,
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: you know, I think Noah, you hit it when you
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: said you can see.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: A closer for the foreseeable future.
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: Um, and just building that confidence, especially when the bullpen
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: was kind of a sore spot, he's kind of been that,
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: that guy that was, you know, coming into the season,
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: all the flip of the coin and, uh, seeing the
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: trajectory of where he's heading is, um, definitely exciting. Cause
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: you know, it's nice to have a left-handed arm that
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: is power and in the back end. Um, So it's
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: nice to see and big ups to Mason.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: Especially with how many right-handed pitchers are in this starting rotation.
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: To have that lefty just dominant in the bullpen, switch
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: things up for batters. I'm so happy that Mason Montgomery
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: is the one guy that really clicked in this bullpen
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: this year.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Mark, can you pull up the chart one more time?
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I just want to point something out here. The three
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: things that stand out. uh on his savant page i
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: mean one you look at the fastball velocity that's great
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: everyone loves someone who can throw hard the k percentage
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: is in the 99th percentile which means he's striking guys
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: striking 39.2 yes but then to go even better with
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: it ground ball percentage 55 so when they are making
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: contact they're hitting it on the ground that is just
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: the definition of an a relief pitcher. Get some swing
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: and miss. And when they do hit it, they hit
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: it on the ground. That is what you're looking for.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: And I mean, even if they're hitting it hard and
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: the average exit below is in the 80th percentile, 87.2.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Like that's, that's solid. Like he's doing everything that you're
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: looking for. Obviously, you know, the hard hit percentage is
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: going to be high because it's coming in fast and
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: guys are barreling it. But I mean, even that's below.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: It's not horrible. So he's only going to get better.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: I just I think this guy's stock is rising at.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: A rapid rate. Yeah.
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: Only 26 to crazy.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: And under team control. So.
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: You know, it also makes me go. is when people
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: subscribe to Bucko territory, hit that button. If you haven't already,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: I'm running out of ways to get a smooth transition
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: to that. Yeah. Yeah. It was all right. And check
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: out our team store. If you haven't already, we've got
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of good Bucko territory merch there. Fellas, any
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: final thoughts before we wrap up another show?
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: Uh, skiing started, uh, after we're done recording this. So
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: we'll see, uh, what's in store today in San Diego. Uh, hopefully, uh,
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: looks a little better than the last few.
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was going to say, I think they pulled
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: one out late last night. And, I mean, I know
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: they got swept in L.A. We said if they got swept,
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: they'd have to return with a sweep. So who knows?
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: They win tonight. They might be trying to make things interesting.
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: But it'd be interesting to see how Paul, you know, looks.
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: And we will, I'm sure, cover that here the next show.
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: Probably Friday's episode, yep.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Probably Friday's episode is a good assumption. He's Platinum Key.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: He's Josh Harrison. I'm Noah Hiles. We're signing off, saying
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: thanks for tuning in to another episode of Bucket of
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Territory presented to you by the Fowl Territory Network. Take care.