Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM: SEVEN WEEKS MISSING

Transcript

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM: SEVEN WEEKS MISSING · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: missing this as we learn of reports that the Guthrie
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: family passed polygraphs with flying colors. Not only that two
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: days emerging January eleven and January twenty four. They're significant,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: but why also new images? You predicted there would be
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: more images from Nancy's home. Now we're learning there of
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: the pool area and Nano says, oh, they're irrelevant. Really,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: then why did we see aerial footage of the FBI
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: combing the pool area and even taking pictures. Good evening.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Straight out to Crime
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Stories investigative reporter Dave Matt. We are now learning of
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: reports the Guthrie family, each one, including Savannah, including Annie Guthrie,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: her sister, including the brother, including the brother in law
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: much maligned, have passed polygraphs. What do you know, Nancy?
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: What we know right now is a former SWAT commander
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: with a source inside pe mc County Sheriff's office, says
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: that the gu.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: Three family, the children and their.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Spouses were all polygraphed and past the polygraph test with
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: blind colors.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Wow, Dave Mac, thank you for that. I'm want to
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: go out to the special guest joining us right now
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: is George Alivo. He is a certified polygrapher. He is
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: former FBI and you may have actually seen him over
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: at our friends at A and E because he is
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: the polygrapher that polygraphed the Anthony family. Now there's George
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Anthony getting polygraph Remember his daughter Top Mom Casey Anthony
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: accused him of wrongdoing of all sorts of crimes in
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: the Top Mom murder case of her daughter Kelly Anthony.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Georgia LVO is the one that performed all the polygraphs
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: for A and E's Casey Anthony, the parents lie Detector test.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: And then you went on to create another A and
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: E program, What was the name of it, George.
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: That was called a Light Detector Truth or Deception. It
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: was a series that was based a patterned after the
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: Casey Anthony show.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: I can't believe people are dumb enough to hook themselves
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: up to one of your polies, Georgia Lvo. Georgia Olivo
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: is based in La and as I said, former FBI. Now,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: before everybody starts screaming. They're not allowed in court. Polygraphs
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: are allowed in court. They are routinely allowed without a
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: problem in civil cases, and they are allowed in criminal
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: cases if they are stipulated or agreed upon. Before the
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: poly both sides have to say in writing, yes, we'll
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: allow the polling. In the criminal case, we agree, and
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: then you perform the poly before you know the outcome.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: How does it work? Break it down for people that
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: have never been present or never conducted or subjected to
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: a polygraph.
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: Well, a polygraph doesn't there's nothing on the screen that
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: shows up and says you're lying or you're telling the truth. Really,
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: if you really want to look at it, more than
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: people calling it a lie detector test, it's really more
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: of a stress detector test. And so we're looking at physiology.
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: And at the end of the day, when we say
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: someone passed, what we're saying is that they have no
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: significant response, no significant response to the relevant questions, and
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: so we're inferring that because of that that they're telling
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: the truth. Now, when there's a significant response, then we
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: say that there's a reason for that their responses. Reactions
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: don't happen in a vacuum. So when they react repeatedly
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: over and over to the same question, because there's redundancy
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: built into the protocol. When they keep reacting to the
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: same question, then we infer that there's deception indicated there.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: So how did have you ever visibly seen them react?
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Georgia Levo, Like, do they start sweating? Do they glance
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: around nervously? Do they twitch? Do they get a nervous tick?
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Can you actually see them reacting when your poly is
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: going m.
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: Well, no, not really, because if a person is twitching
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: or moving or even sighing or breathing too heavily, if
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: the physiology is not acceptable, then well most people don't realize, Nancy.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: Is that the trump card that we always have in
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: polygraph when people say, well, what if they cheat, what
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: if they try to cheat? If the physiology does not
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: look natural and normal, if it looks in any way
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: controlled or manufactured in some way that they're trying to
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: do something on the test, then the examiner, no matter
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: what the score is, numerically, the examiner has a sole
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: discretion to say, I'm not going to accept this test.
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: And it happened to me just just recently where someone
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: numerically passed the test but I said, now I'm not
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: going to accept it. So the final result in that
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: case that we call it an opinion test. We can
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: redo the test, but we're not going to pass someone
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: if the physiology is suspicious.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Georgia Leva, I'm curious why there's Cameron, the brother Cameron
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: right there. Why did you refuse to pass on that, Polly?
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: What happened during it?
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: Well, the physiology was outside of what we call normal range,
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: so it was atypical physiology. You know, it's kind of
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: like Nancy. You go, if you have a counterfeit hundred
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: dollars bill and you go into the bank to the
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: manager of the bank and you ask them to give
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: you change for that one hundred dollarsgoll They're going to
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: look at it. It's going to scrutinize it, hold it
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: up to the light, and they may not know the
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: exact counterfeit technique that was used, but they know what
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: the real bill is supposed to look like. And so
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: I've been looking at physiology for fifteen years. I know
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: what's in normal limits, within normal range, and if it
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: doesn't look normal. Now, I won't get into exactly the
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: diagnostic features. I'm looking at because then that's kind of
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: telling people how to try to cheat on a test.
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: But when it doesn't look normal, we can stop the test.
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: We can give them a warning, which you know that's fair,
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: give someone a warning, because then there's a possibility they
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: might not be doing it on purpose. It could be
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: something due to a medical condition. But you can tell someone, look,
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: you know your physiologies. You just got to sit still
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: and breathe normally and don't do anything to change the
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: outcome of this test or to manipulate the test. And
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: if it continues, then whether it's being done on purpose
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: or not, it doesn't matter. We don't have to accept
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: through it. We don't have to accept the find on
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: the America score.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Guys, the video we showed you Savannah and sister Annie
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: and Annie Guthrie's husband laying flowers at a makeshift honorarium.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: That's our friends at Fox News. Back to George Olivo,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: la Poligrapher and the Star of Casey, Anthony's Parents, the
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: lie Detector Test, and more Former FBI George, here's a
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: big question everybody wants to know the answer to this.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Can you cheat a polly?
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: That's a good question. If you can thread a needle
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: in the dark. Then I guess I would say, yes,
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: it's very difficult to do. You know, the law enforcements
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: that he has been using polygraph for decades, and you
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: know this, Nancy, they're not going to rely on investigative
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: tools that fail randomly. So we're not really worried about
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: someone coming in and randomly cheating on a polygraph test.
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: Most of the things people try to do that they
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: find on the internet, try this or try that, because
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: I look at that all the time. I'm all the
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: time looking at the internet asking I type in all
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: the time, how can I cheat on a polygraph TST.
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: I do it all the time to see what is
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: being put out there, and basically everything I see, I'm
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: thinking to myself, will good. Yeah, do that because it's
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: easy for me to spot that.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Guys joining us George Olivo, a renowned polygrapher, joining us
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: out of the LA jurisdiction. So wouldn't you agree that
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: it's SOP standard operating procedure George for family members to
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: be pollied? I would agree with that, yes, because statistically,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: that's who you look at when somebody goes missing or
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: is found dead. You look at family members. Statistically, someone
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: close to the victim is responsible, but not true in
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: every case. Now, let me ask you. You've been studying
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: the Nancy Guthrie disappearance. If you pollyed her family, what
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: would you ask them? Let's just start with the brother
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: in law. He seems to be the scapegoat. Although a
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: lot of people online they look at the intruder, the
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: porch guy who took Nancy Guthrie, and they're convinced it's
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Annie Guthrie, the woman, the sister. That's not Annie Guthrie. Everybody,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: that's a man, that's a man that said, what would
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: you ask the son in law? Where would you start
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: with that?
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: George Olivo, Well, that's a great question, is because that's
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: really gonna If you say someone passed the polygraph exam,
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: the real question is, well, you know, what did you
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: ask the person? The relevant questions are so important?
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: That's right. What are the questions exactly?
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: What are the relevant questions? And of course, secondarily and
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: equally important, who did the polygraph exam? So if the
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: FBI did the exams, I'm very confident that they were
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: done well and they were done correctly. Obviously I'm thinking
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: going to think that that's where I got my train,
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: and I think the f guys best in the world
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: that polygraph. I don't have any doubt about that. But
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: the questions have to be carefully constructed because they can't
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: be accusatory questions, they can't be inflammatory questions, and they
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: have to be questions that don't have a loophole because
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: the first thing we're thinking about when we're constructing a
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: question for a polygraph is what could the person possibly
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: say if they fail this test to get out of it,
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: say oh, well, I failed because it was Tuesday instead
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: of Wednesday, or I failed because I didn't understand this.
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: So you want to make sure that the questions nice
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: and tight. One question I would not ask in this
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: case is do you know who took Nancy? Because that
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: is a kind of a rookie mistake because if I
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: asked someone a question a polygraph exam and in this
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: particular case, missing person, I say, do you know who
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: took her? Which includes the person themselves, right, So I
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: feel like I'm including that if they did it themselves
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: or they know who did it, then they would fail,
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: and they failed the test. All they have to say
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: is well, everything on the News says x y z
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: or I had a dream the other night and I
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: feel I know who did it. So you're back to
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: square one. So that's a loophole and it's a bad question.
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: So in a case like this, I would I would
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: ask it's actually pretty similar to actually to in the
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: case George Anthony, because there was a missing person in there,
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: right little Kayley, And I would ask in this case
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: something like did you deliberately cause Nancy's disappearance? Not are
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: you responsible? Because you know, even Savannah and you know
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: people that are truly grieving and are heartbroken, they may
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: feel responsible. I could have done more, I should have
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: called her, or I should have done something, and they
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: feel responsible. You don't want to ask you feel responsible,
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: But did you deliberately cause her disappearance? Are you And
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: if it's something where you really do need to know,
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: if it's another person, in other words, secondary involvement. They
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: didn't physically take her, but maybe they murder for hire,
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: so they paid someone, you really do need to know
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: if they are involved. Secondarily, I might ask something like
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: are you protecting the identity of the person who took Nancy?
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: Something like that, which is very direct, And if you
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: fail it, that there's no you know, there's no wiggle
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: room in there. If you fail it, then you got
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: to explain why you fail it, why you fail that test.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: I was just watching George Savannah crying. Now people are
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: attacking her because she might go back to work. Can
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: people that are very upset, very emotional, they can't stop crying,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: can they take a polly No?
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: I would say no. There's this unspoken rule, or not unspoken,
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: rather unwritten rule. Some people call it the twenty four
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: hour rule. I don't know if it's twenty four hours
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: or forty eight. People grieve differently, but you should never polygraph.
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: You give someone a polygraphics and them immediately following a
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: traumatic experience. So if she had just found out that
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: her mother's missing and he's in a huge panic, or
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: even if someone just finished getting interrogated on a case,
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: let's say bank robbery or murder, and they've been interrogated
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: for three or four hours, and then you throw them
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: in a polygraph chair right after that to take a
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: polygraph exam because they keep denying it. That's not really
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: a good idea either. You should a person should be
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: more in a calm state and who's to say how
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: long that should be. If it should be twenty four
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: hours or forty eight hours, but it shouldn't be somebody
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: who is crying or sobbing or grieving. It's not going
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: to give you a good result. Again, physiology is not
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: going to be It's going.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: To be all over the map, sure, George guys George
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Olivo joining us from George Olivo dot com. Former FBI
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: polygrapher in LA. He learned polygraphs with the FBI. I
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: can see it right now, George. I would be on
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: a plan arrayment calendar no. Maybe one hundred and fifty
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: new defendants a week, and I could see during PLA
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: negotiations a defense attorney coming down a long hallway in
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: the courthouse as if they knew something. I'm like, okay,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: here it comes. He's got something. Sure enough, he has
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: a polygraph. My client passed a polygraph. I'm like, okay.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: First I'd say who took the polly? Did you hire
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: a private firm to take the polly? Is it somebody
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: you use a lot? You paid them for the polly?
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Then they would have to tell me who administered the polly.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't like that because I would want law enforcement
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: to administer it. And then I say, well, what were
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: the questions? If you want me to pay any attention
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: to your polly, I need to know what the questions.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: They would never want me to know the questions. The
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: questions have to be very carefully devised. I've devised questions
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: for pollies and then being corrected rightly by you. The
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: poligrapher would correct me and say that's not a good question.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: That's not going to work. It's got to be a
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: very direct question. So, for instance, I'm working up to it, George,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: thank you for bearing with me. A lot of people
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: have attacked the son in law Nancy Guthrie son in law,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: who is Anny Guthrie's husband and any so the questions
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: have to be formulated. For instance, many people have stayed
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: the sun in law is responsible. I reject that. Or
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: one of his bandmates he plays in a band or
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: played in a band. One band mate has haddled his
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: life totally destroyed because of this. That said, what question
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: would you ask the brother You've got the brother in law,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: because you've got to ask if he was involved or
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: if someone he knows was involved, and what if he
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: thinks Ooh, maybe the pool guy was involved. What if
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: he's thinking maybe a grocery store delivery person was involved,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: maybe a granting any son was involved. That can really
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: screw up your polygraph test. The question's got to be
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: just right. How do you phrase it? George?
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: Exactly so, yes, you're exactly right, Nanswy. Just like I
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: said earlier, you don't want to ask the question do
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: you know who did it? Do you know who took Nancy?
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: Because you're right, he may say maybe it was this guy,
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: maybe it was that guy. Maybe it's all the stuff
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: I'm hearing on the news. So if he has an alibi,
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: for example, in terms of where he physically was when
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: she disappeared, the only other option is that maybe he
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: hires someone or is working directly with somebody so that
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: he's indirectly involved in the disappearance. You want to ask
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: something like are you protecting the identity of the person
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: who took Nancy? So that would be a direct way
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: of saying, you know, I know who did it, but
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: I'm not speculating because you know, if you just asked,
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: how do you know? If you just asked, do you
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: know who it is? Then the question is, well, how
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: do you know? Did you have a dream? Did you
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: think it up? Did you hear it on the news?
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: So we don't want those loopholes in the question. And then,
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: of course, if he doesn't have a solid alibi, you
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: want to ask if he did it. So you don't
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: want to ask her you were responsible, because again you
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: may think, well, you know, I should have stayed a
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: little longer, I should have called her back. You know,
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: I feel bad, So I feel Yes, they feel responsible,
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: and that's that's the loophole. If they fail. Yeah, I
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: feel responsible. You want to ask were you directly involved?
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: So did you deliberately cause Nancy's disappearance? There's the key there, that.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Deliberate, you know, George, I think I would ask direct
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: questions like you're stating, such as, did Nancy Guthrie have
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: dinner with you and your wife Annie the night before
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: she disappeared? Did you drive her home that night? Did
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: you see her go into her home through the garage door?
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Did you see the garage door close? Did you go
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: directly home after that? If for any was there any reason?
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: And wait, no, you don't want that, that's too open.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Did you reach learned to Nancy's home? Later that night,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: direct questions that are more of a yes no answer.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying, Georgia Levo.
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: Yes, every question has got to be a yes or
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: no answer. But here's the thing. All the questions that
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: you just lined up there, Nancy, they're all great questions.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: They are what I would be to consider secondary issues.
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: Those are all secondary issues. Primary issue is did you
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: do it? Secondary issue is the mode and methodology and
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: where were you and how did you do it and
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: all that. Those are all secondary issues. So here's the
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: thinking behind it. If I ask him a question, you know,
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: did you directly cause Nancy's disappearance? And he passes the
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: test like they say with flying clothers quote unquote, and
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: they're asking him the right questions on the actual involvement,
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: direct or indirect involvement, and he passes, all those secondary
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: issues are irrelevant, right because he passed he didn't do it.
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: But if he fails that, then you can go into
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: what's called or break out exams if you want, or
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: quite frankly, it's in the interrogation process that you get
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: all those secondary details. Once he fails a test.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, George, I thought I would be leading him up
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: the garden path and then dropping the bombshell on him,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: in other words, leading him up to that moment and
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: then asking him, do do you directly have anything to
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: do with Nancy's disappears? But you're saying, no, don't do that.
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: No, no, Well, it can't really be done that way
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: because polygraph's not set up that way where people don't realize.
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: It's not really designed to be like a Q and
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: a session, polygraph is very very short and concise. Really really,
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: we're only using like six or seven questions at most,
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: and there's only a couple maybe two or three that
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: are going to even be relevant questions. The others are
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: comparison questions and baseline questions, and you know, it's very well,
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: you know, what people don't realize is that polygraph when
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: it's done legitimately, when it's done correctly, not the stuff
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: you see on you know, the some of these talk
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: shows and crazy things, but when it's done correctly by
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: law enforcement, it's a very controlled process. Even the sequence
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: of the question that's part of the format has to
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: be asked in a certain order, and we're really only
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: asking a very small number of questions on that test.
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: So We're not asking like a bunch of q and as,
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: and while the polygraph is running, it doesn't work that way.
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: Our mom is a kind, eighthful, loyal, fiercely loving woman
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: of goodness and liked. She's funny, spunky, and clever. She
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: has grandchildren that adore her and crowd around her and
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: cover her.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: With Crime stores with Nancy Grace. In addition to reports
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: the Guthrie family past polygraphs, new images from Nancy Guthrie's
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: yard emerging. Dave Matt, Crime Stories investigative reporter, tell me
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: about the images.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, the shocking part of this, Nancy, is
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: that the images that we have now been told about
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: show the time just prior to the alleged kidnapping and
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: the time directly after it. When I say up to before,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: I mean the day before and the time it starts
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: with picks backup when police are on the scene at
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: the investigation about twelve fifteen. But Nancy, we're talking about
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: the backyard, the swimming pool area, and the side of
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: the house of Nancy Guthrie's house.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Dave Matt, When you're saying the side of the house
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: around the pool area, I find that very very interesting.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Because Nanos is saying this new video doesn't mean anything.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: But isn't there footage? Let's see that aerial footage, please
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Control room of the FBI. This is my friends at
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Fox News combing through the side of the home, the
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: entire pool area, and if you stay on it you
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: will see I believe it's the first guy walking, turn
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: around and take photos around the gate. What about that, Dave.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Matt We're talking about the photos that were taken off
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: from the house from security cameras, thumbnail photos that were
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: taken up to the day before the kidnapping occurred, and
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: then pick right back up with police during the investigation.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: But according to what we're being told, they don't have
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: photos of the time in question when Nancy Guthrie was
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: taken from the home. So they have it right up
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: to that point and then right after, but not.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: I find that very curious to Scott Iiker joining US
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: digital forensics expert founding member of the FBI Cellular Analysis
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Survey Team known as CASTE. He is a historical cellular
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: analysis expert, former FBI twenty two years, former homicide detective
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: at Norfolk, Virginia PD, currently with Precision Cellular Analysis Scott.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Isn't that quite the coincudent that Nanas is saying, Oh,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: don't look over here, this means nothing. First he said,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: there is no video. We're never gonna have video. Nancy
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Guthrie didn't have a subscription. Then in a herculeon feat
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: a miracle, Google, out of trillions of data points, finds
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie's porch cam and finds the porch guy. Now
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: we've got more images. Thumbnails who's to say there's not more?
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: And what about the incidents that it's of the pool
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: area and backyard And I was just saying that's nothing.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: But we see the FBI combing through the pool area
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: in the backyard even taking photos. Why and why do
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: the photos lead up to the moment she's kidnapped and
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: then pick up after the moment she's pigging kidnapped.
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: Well, if you remember back when we first got these
• 24:25
  Speaker 6: videos of the porch guy, we said, and I said,
• 24:29
  Speaker 6: they're going to keep digging, right, They're going to keep
• 24:32
  Speaker 6: digging it. And they're going to keep digging and keep digging.
• 24:34
  Speaker 6: That's pushing it onto Google and the FBI if they
• 24:39
  Speaker 6: get different sets of data to comb through all this
• 24:44
  Speaker 6: data and to find these little thumbnails of the side
• 24:47
  Speaker 6: of the house and the back pool of backyard stuff
• 24:49
  Speaker 6: like very important. I think you're showing a timeline of
• 24:54
  Speaker 6: when those cameras were working and when they weren't working.
• 24:59
  Speaker 6: And think about looking at the camera or the thumbnails
• 25:04
  Speaker 6: of the pool area prior to missus Gotthrie going missing.
• 25:09
  Speaker 6: Has anything been moved since when she after she was kidnapped?
• 25:15
  Speaker 6: Was the gate open afterwards? Was it closed before? So
• 25:20
  Speaker 6: those are things that I think mister Nanosis is not
• 25:24
  Speaker 6: thinking through his answers before he's giving it to the
• 25:27
  Speaker 6: media that there is going to be some information that
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: could be helpful in those thumbnail photos.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Scott Iker, don't move. Let me see that aerial video again.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Scott Iker just gave me another thought. The aerial video
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: at Dave Mac. They were really coming through the backyard
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: in the pool area. And this is after p mc
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: County Sheriffs had already processed as saying the Feds are back.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Isn't it true that a dog started going crazy the
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: night Nancy was kidnapped? And wouldn't that a butt her
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: backyard and pool area.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Do the home in question actually faces the Nancy Guthrie's backyard,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: and the neighbors said that between two and two thirty
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: of the morning in question, that their dogs started losing
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: his cookies and was just barking like crazy, something the
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: dog did not normally do. But Nancy even more than that,
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: that when the neighbors were looking at their own video
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: camera surveillance cameras at their home, that they have two
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: cameras facing the front and two facing the back. The
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: two facing the back of their home is closest to
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie's home and during that time period where the
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: dog was barking, where between two and two thirty in
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: the morning, their video cameras were not their security cameras
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: were not connecting via Wi Fi. They were shut down.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: The two furthest away from Nancy Guthrie's home were still connected,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: but the two closest to Nancy Gibbs Bethrie's own connecting
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: by Wi Fi.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: To Brian Fitzgibbons, joining us Director Operations USPA Nationwide Security,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: leading a team of investigators around the world finding missing people,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: including extractions from Mexico. He's at USPA Security dot Com.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Former marine and Iraqi war vet. Fitzgibbons, you know what
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: this is telling me the dog goes crazy behind the
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: pool area. The FBI is searching the pool area and
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: taking photos. This is from our friends at Fox. The
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: neighbor with the dog Wi fi is jammed when the
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: dog's going crazy between two and three am in the morning.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: That tells me, let's see the aerial view please, that
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: at least one of the kidnappers came through the neighbor's
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: yard and entered Nancy's yard. The dog goes crazy, their
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: videos jammed pool area, get it.
• 28:09
  Speaker 7: Yeah, very possible. Nancy and I think that this all
• 28:13
  Speaker 7: amplifies something that we've been extensively saying from the beginning
• 28:18
  Speaker 7: that we don't know when what the time stamp on
• 28:23
  Speaker 7: this ring video of the purp on the porch is from,
• 28:28
  Speaker 7: and that we do know now the new information that
• 28:30
  Speaker 7: we do have some data coming from the cameras in
• 28:34
  Speaker 7: the backyard, which which leads us to add a little
• 28:37
  Speaker 7: bit to this story that it's very possible that some
• 28:41
  Speaker 7: of the early reporting of forced entry through the back
• 28:46
  Speaker 7: of Missus Guthrie's house was indeed accurate, and that they're
• 28:51
  Speaker 7: highlighting this through this new information.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: To all three of you, help me unravel this. We've
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: got the porch guy. We believe there was an accomplice.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Did they did one of the accomplices come through the
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: neighbor's yard? Why do I care? Even though the video
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: was jammed the night of what about other nights? The
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: FBI honing in on Jan eleven and Jan twenty four, which,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: by the way, Dave Matt correct me if I'm wrong,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: But aren't all of those on weekends? Jane eleven, Jan
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: twenty four, and then of course Jan thirty one, the
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: night that she's kidnapped, into the early morning hours of
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Feb one, which was a weekend. It was a Saturday
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: night going into Sunday morning. All three on weekends, each one?
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: What does that tell me? Somebody that worked during the
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: week and could do this on weekends. Typically that's what
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: it tells you when someone only strikes on weekends. Maybe
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: not here, but typically that's what it tells you. Okay,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: hold on, go with me, Dave Matt. All three on weekends,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: all three in the middle of the night. If they
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: went through the neighbor's yard, what about the video? They
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: didn't jam the video on Jan eleven and Jan twenty four?
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Can we get that? See where I'm going? With this.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Yep, I do see where you're going. And you know
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: that's why the FBI has been going in the neighborhood Nancy,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: looking at jan eleven and jan twenty four. And in fact,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: one of the neighbors sat down with the FBI who
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: watched their nest or ring doorbell video in the home.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: The FBI watched it with the homeowner as they scrolled
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: through the video from these specific nights, not bothering to
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: take it, just looking at it right then and there.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: So they are focused on January eleventh, January twenty four,
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: and they are looking at all through this neighborhood for
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: any scrap of evidence they can find. And I think
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: the zeroing in on this is proven by some of
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: the things we're already finding out, some of the things
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: we've seen there that we're showing the video that was
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: taken the night around between two thirty and two fifty
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: behind about two and a half miles behind Nancy Guthries' home.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: We do have the neighbor reporting the stranger in the neighborhood,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: remember that was around January eleventh.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Well, you know what, looking at this video, hold on,
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: I don't want to lose a thought day, I'll circle
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: right back to you. Scott Iiker joining as digital forensics
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: expert again. Nano said at the get go that car
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: video not so much. Well it is, I wonder and
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: that video is from our friends at Fox News. By
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: the way, Scott Iiker, if that same yard cam can
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: be resurrected for Jan eleven and Jan twenty four, when
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: we think the porch guy was in the neighborhood to
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: try to catch vehicles going by, because you know they
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: testrant it not just on foot. They had to get
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: there somehow. They didn't drop in from a helicopter for pizza.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: They drove there and they were testing it out. I'd
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: want to see that yard cam from eleven and twenty
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: four as well.
• 32:28
  Speaker 6: I agree. If you're if you're going to go do
• 32:30
  Speaker 6: this type of crime, you're going to pre scout it first, right,
• 32:34
  Speaker 6: You've got to go out and kind of get an
• 32:36
  Speaker 6: idea of what the property is like, where the points
• 32:41
  Speaker 6: of access. So if you're going to do that ahead
• 32:43
  Speaker 6: of time, there hopefully can be footage. Again, we know
• 32:47
  Speaker 6: that the Guthries did not have a subscription, so that
• 32:50
  Speaker 6: causes a big problem. But have Google continue to push
• 32:56
  Speaker 6: through those dates and times get the video from the
• 32:59
  Speaker 6: name those dates and times, trying to catch someone suspicious
• 33:05
  Speaker 6: in that area at that time.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: So Scott Iiker, how did they get these new thumb prints?
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Their thumb prints? Now maybe there'll be more. It ain't
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: over yet. It ain't over yet. How did they get these?
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: We were told by Nanas there's nothing, then there's something.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Now there's nothing else, and now there's something else. There
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: could be more. Iker, how are they doing it?
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 33:28
  Speaker 6: These thumbnail little photos are you know, not very good
• 33:32
  Speaker 6: quality and very small. They're not like we could see
• 33:35
  Speaker 6: with the video at the front porch, so uh, they're
• 33:39
  Speaker 6: going to be tough to kind of analyze. But that's
• 33:41
  Speaker 6: kind of just a you know what, I have mess
• 33:45
  Speaker 6: cameras and when I you know, I get an indication
• 33:48
  Speaker 6: there's someone at my front door, it sends me a
• 33:50
  Speaker 6: little small picture of what the camera saw and then
• 33:54
  Speaker 6: I can go into the app and look at it
• 33:56
  Speaker 6: more detailed. But it sends me a quick little thumbnail
• 33:59
  Speaker 6: photo and that's what they got from Google.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Also tonight we are getting reports that the Guthrie family
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: car has been returned has been returned. I find that
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: to be significant to bey if it's Gibbons joining us
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: USPA nationwide security. Do you find that significant as it
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: relates to the Guthrie family and accusations being made against them.
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 34:26
  Speaker 7: Absolutely, Hopefully we can finally put this to bed with
• 34:31
  Speaker 7: regards to the Guthrie family. As we've said before, there
• 34:35
  Speaker 7: were hundreds of investigators on this case, certainly many of
• 34:40
  Speaker 7: them assigned to eliminate the possibility of a family connection here.
• 34:47
  Speaker 7: The vehicle has been extensively searched and returned, polygraphs have
• 34:52
  Speaker 7: been done, and hopefully that narrative can be put to
• 34:55
  Speaker 7: bed at this.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Point day, Matt, what can you tell me about uber
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: rye video? We've seen it in many many cases, We've
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: used it in many many cases. I mean, who's to
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: say it wasn't a tesla that gets a three hundred
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: and sixty degree view. We don't know that. But what
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: if there are just a myriad of possibilities? Where's the
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Uber video? We know the Uber driver has been cleared. Yes,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: if you, first of all, let's just start at the beginning.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: Why where does an Uber fit into this timeline? Let's
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: just start with that, Okay.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie took an Uber from her home to Annie's home,
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: to her daughter Annie's home for game night, you know,
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: having dinner and playing games. So that an Uber driver
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: picked Nancy Guthrie up at her home at five point
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: thirty two pm. She then took her directly to Annie's home,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: dropped d off, and went on about her Mary way
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: I say her. I'm not sure if we're talking male
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: or female right now about the Uber driver, but we
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: do know that the earliest parts of this investigation, the
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Sheriff's Department detective sat down with the Uber driver. The
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: Uber driver gave the law enforcement videos from the car
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: for the time in question and gave them every answer
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: they could possibly want, and was immediately cleared because remember
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie took the Uber from her home to her
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: daughter's home. She did not take an Uber from Annie's
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: home back to her own home.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, what about it, Scott Iker, what benefit would there
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: be in us seeing the Uber video?
• 36:34
  Speaker 6: Well, there are several different things. We're trying to make
• 36:38
  Speaker 6: this timeline that we have concrete right well, all of
• 36:41
  Speaker 6: what the family has said when she was over at
• 36:44
  Speaker 6: Annie's house, when she got home, so that's one piece
• 36:47
  Speaker 6: of the timeline we can verify through the video of
• 36:50
  Speaker 6: the from the Uber driver, which also things you can
• 36:54
  Speaker 6: see is house Missus Guthrie dressed right? Is she wearing
• 36:59
  Speaker 6: the clothes that you know she was dropped off in
• 37:02
  Speaker 6: according to the family when she was kidnapped? Was she
• 37:07
  Speaker 6: where those clothes at the house that she was wearing
• 37:10
  Speaker 6: earlier that day?
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: We've used you know.
• 37:13
  Speaker 6: Uber videos, lift videos in many different cases to see
• 37:18
  Speaker 6: things that are not intended. There's you know, the people
• 37:21
  Speaker 6: that are in the car, and then there's a camera
• 37:23
  Speaker 6: facing forward towards the front of the car and we
• 37:28
  Speaker 6: pick up a ton of different information license plates. What
• 37:31
  Speaker 6: if someone was following Missus Guthrie that night and to
• 37:35
  Speaker 6: make sure that she had left the house? Was there
• 37:39
  Speaker 6: a video of that from the Uber driver of someone
• 37:42
  Speaker 6: following her following the Uber vehicle to Annie's house. I mean,
• 37:47
  Speaker 6: there's a hundred possibilities. That's just throwing into the weeds.
• 37:51
  Speaker 6: But why not look at that video and make sure
• 37:54
  Speaker 6: you've got every bit of piece of information you.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Can from fitzgibbns, he's right USPA Nationwide Security because a
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: lot of nights, my mom who lives with me, will
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: be getting her ready for bed and she will just
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: be too tired to change into her pjs. So she
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: typically wears like a jogging outfit or a cute little
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: thelure jogging thing, and sometimes she'll just want She'll say,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: I'm just too tir of sleep in this. So I'd
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: like to know just what Iker said. Was she wearing
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: those clothes that are pictured in the uber video? What
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: was her demeanor? Did she look ill? Did she seem
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: incoherent in any way? I don't know what I'm looking for.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know it till I see it. That's why
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: I think the video should be released.
• 38:46
  Speaker 7: Absolutely, and I think at this point it can certainly
• 38:50
  Speaker 7: help if we had a description of the last known
• 38:54
  Speaker 7: clothing that Nancy was wearing.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: To your point, you know, another thing has just happened.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Nanos says he knows the motive.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: What happened, Dave mac You know, Sheriff Nanos has said
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: many things during the course of this investigation that are problematic,
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: and this is another one because Sheriff Nano says, yeah,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: we know the motive, we know why this happened, but
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: he is not willing to share that with the rest
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: of us.
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: But he adds this is a targeted event.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: He also says, well, wait a minute, kidnappers could still
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: be out there. You need to be He's actually saying
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: to watch out for yourself. So in one breath he says,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: we know the motive, and we know it's a targeted event,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: but then turning right around to say nobody's say, I mean,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: not something you want to hear from the sheriff of your.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: County, you know, Bryfus Gibbons. That's exactly what happened in
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: the Idaho case where four beautiful University Idaho students were slaughtered.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: The local law enforcement came out and said this was targeted.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: You're all safe, and then backtracking went hey, everybody lock
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: your doors, you're not safe. This is very eerily reminiscent
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: of that, thy Paul.
• 40:12
  Speaker 7: And I'll add in one more recent one. After the
• 40:15
  Speaker 7: horrific shooting at Brown University, Mayor Brett Smiley was all
• 40:21
  Speaker 7: over the cameras saying there's no threat to the public, etc.
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: Etc.
• 40:26
  Speaker 7: Right, the situations well in hand, there's no continuing threat.
• 40:31
  Speaker 7: Why government and officials and law enforcement officials say things
• 40:38
  Speaker 7: like there's no threat to the public is beyond me.
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: Time and again.
• 40:44
  Speaker 7: It's proven that they have no rationale or logical basis
• 40:50
  Speaker 7: to make such a claim, and it shows that their
• 40:54
  Speaker 7: main goal there is to control the narrative and keep people,
• 41:00
  Speaker 7: you know, feeling secure in their power. So it was
• 41:05
  Speaker 7: a number of missteps here by Nanos.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: This is just one of them.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to share of Nanos.
• 41:11
  Speaker 8: We believe we know why he did this, and we
• 41:14
  Speaker 8: believe that it was targeted, but we can't. We're not
• 41:19
  Speaker 8: one hundred percent sure of that, and so it'd be
• 41:22
  Speaker 8: silly to tell people, Yeah, don't worry about it, you're
• 41:25
  Speaker 8: not his target. Don't think for a minute that because
• 41:28
  Speaker 8: it happened to the Guthrie family you're safe. No, keep
• 41:33
  Speaker 8: your wits about you.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: From our friends at NBC. There's Nanos at it again. Okay,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: go with me here on this. What about it iker
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: that he doesn't know who did it, but he can
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: divine why they did it for ransom. That would be
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: a plausible explanation to explain away what Nano's is saying.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Or what about this financial scam someone connected to her
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: and so way that was taking advantage of or planning
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: to take advantage of her financially.
• 42:05
  Speaker 6: I definitely agree, and it's I would more termin as
• 42:09
  Speaker 6: a robbery than a financial scam because they're forcing basically
• 42:13
  Speaker 6: someone to go to an ATM and withdraw money. I mean,
• 42:18
  Speaker 6: that's a robbery, that's a threat of violence or to
• 42:23
  Speaker 6: that extent. So if we're dealing with that possibility, maybe
• 42:28
  Speaker 6: an analysis is inferring that is that they grabbed missus
• 42:33
  Speaker 6: Guthrie and took her to a bank ATM and then
• 42:37
  Speaker 6: something else happened. We don't know. I wish he would
• 42:41
  Speaker 6: be more specific on the motives that he's found or
• 42:46
  Speaker 6: through the investigation, then we can reallyst focus our direction.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: You're right, Scott Iiker and Bryan, if it's Givens, there's many, many,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: plethora of financial scams to money steal money from the elderly.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be going to an ATM. It
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: could be any number of things. It could be them
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: calling their financial planner and asking for money to be moved.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: So there's a myriad of things that a financial scam
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: could entail. In this case, have they found evidence of
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: those financial scams and is there a money trail that
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: could lead us to the perp or is this straight
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: out for ransom? Ransom gone wrong?
• 43:29
  Speaker 7: Yeah, in my opinion right, this leads more to ransom.
• 43:32
  Speaker 7: Not many of these financial scams, at least ones that
• 43:36
  Speaker 7: take place face to face, are going to happen at two.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: In the morning over a weekend.
• 43:43
  Speaker 7: This is very Those are very typically, especially with the elderly,
• 43:47
  Speaker 7: are going to happen in broad daylight, when banks are open,
• 43:51
  Speaker 7: when access codes can be granted to ATMs and things
• 43:56
  Speaker 7: like that. For this to happen at two in the
• 44:00
  Speaker 7: morning leads me to believe that this is more towards
• 44:05
  Speaker 7: the ransom gone ram than a direct financial scam targeting
• 44:11
  Speaker 7: an elderly woman.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, as we learn the FBI
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: is back in Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood questioning neighbors. They are
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: questioning specifically about January eleven, between the hours of nine
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: PM and twelve a m. Y. We can confirm the
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: prevailing theory is the porch guy was on Nancy's front
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: porch jan eleven. Jan eleven is taking center stage, also
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: scrutiny on neighbors that had a rental home and quickly
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: vacated as soon as Nancy Guthrie goes missing. Dave Matt
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Crime Story's investigative reporter, What can you tell me about
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: the FBI back in Nancy Ethrie's neighborhood, going door to door.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: What do they want?
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: They want any kind of video that they can possibly
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: find from ring cameras, nest cameras, any kind of surveillance video,
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: and they want to talk to everybody about January eleventh.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: You know, we've had the two videos, or the two photos. Rather,
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: we have one where porch guy who has the gun
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: of the backpack, and then we had the other photo
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: there we go where he's not wearing a backpack and
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: there is no gun.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: Well, now we know the no gun photo, no backpack photo.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: That's why the FBI is back in the neighborhood and
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: they're talking to everyone in there about January eleventh, specifically
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: nine pm to twelve midnight.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Straight out to our panel of experts to Justice. Morgan,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Fate on Amazon, and star of a hit podcast, Body
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: Bags with Joe Scott Morgan way In.
• 46:10
  Speaker 9: Well, you know the fact that we have Tom Stamps
• 46:13
  Speaker 9: now Nancy or is significant because you can go back.
• 46:17
  Speaker 9: I don't know how far back they've gone with the
• 46:19
  Speaker 9: videography that they have in hand, and what I'm talking
• 46:21
  Speaker 9: about are all the peripheral areas. Did they have anything
• 46:25
  Speaker 9: that goes back to that date in January where they
• 46:27
  Speaker 9: can see a potential suspect moving around in that environment.
• 46:30
  Speaker 9: And also, let me throw this out there to you,
• 46:33
  Speaker 9: the backpack that he's wearing, and we're back on this again.
• 46:36
  Speaker 9: Relative to the Ozark backpack. I think that it's critical
• 46:39
  Speaker 9: here to try to understand did he acquire this after
• 46:43
  Speaker 9: that date in preparation of everything that he's been doing.
• 46:47
  Speaker 9: It's also been stated that that holster that he is
• 46:51
  Speaker 9: wearing is also a purchase from Walmart, which is where
• 46:54
  Speaker 9: Ozark is also sold as well. Now, granted, he could
• 46:57
  Speaker 9: have bought this online, he could have gone to a
• 46:59
  Speaker 9: thrift store and picked it up, but it just seems
• 47:02
  Speaker 9: like a coincidence at this point in time, not a coincidence,
• 47:06
  Speaker 9: rather that he acquires all this stuff and he changes
• 47:08
  Speaker 9: his appearance. I stated some time ago that I felt
• 47:11
  Speaker 9: as though that whoever did this had been casing her
• 47:15
  Speaker 9: home all right, that they had familiarity with this environment,
• 47:18
  Speaker 9: that they were trying to understand it, trying to get
• 47:21
  Speaker 9: a feel for the environment before they take her in
• 47:25
  Speaker 9: whatever form that they took her, whether it was walking
• 47:27
  Speaker 9: out the door with her or luring her out, or
• 47:29
  Speaker 9: whatever potentially happened in this particular event, and I think
• 47:32
  Speaker 9: that that goes to this narrative.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Nancy also joining us, in addition to Dave mc and
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: Jesscott Morgan, Brifus Gibbons is with US Director Operations usp
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: a nationwide security leading a team of investigators finding and
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: extracting missing people from around the world. Former Marine Iraqi
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: war Vet Brian This is big. This is big because
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: now we have ever directly linking January eleven to Nancy
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: Guthrie's disappearance. We have January twenty four link to her disappearance,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: and we have the thirty first bordering into the first.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: All three of those on weekend nights. That is extremely probative.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: When I would work up cases to present to juris,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: I would always look to see what night of the
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: week incidents were occurring, specifically in let's just say, a
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: serial murder case, a serial case stalking cases, because that
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: gives me a bead on who is my purp He's
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: always doing this on weekend nights. Why? But that said,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: the fact that we now have somewhat of a timestamp
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: is significant.
• 48:52
  Speaker 7: Why absolutely, it adds a tremendous amount of color behind
• 48:56
  Speaker 7: the profile that we're building of this suspect.
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: Why was it just on the weekends?
• 49:02
  Speaker 7: Is this somebody who traveled a distance, who was maybe
• 49:05
  Speaker 7: working somewhere Monday through Friday elsewhere during the week traveling
• 49:10
  Speaker 7: to the Tucson area on the weekend to conduct this reconnaissance.
• 49:15
  Speaker 7: And the second thing I'd like to add is it
• 49:17
  Speaker 7: also corroborates other information that has been revealed from the investigation.
• 49:24
  Speaker 7: Nancy's neighbor reported to numerous media outlets that in mid
• 49:28
  Speaker 7: January she wasn't sure of a specific date, that she
• 49:32
  Speaker 7: saw someone, a strange person walking around the neighborhood. And
• 49:37
  Speaker 7: this wasn't a typical walker that they would see, or
• 49:41
  Speaker 7: somebody in exercise clothing. That somebody was walking up and
• 49:44
  Speaker 7: down the neighborhood. Now this has been widely reported, and
• 49:48
  Speaker 7: now with this date and time stamp on the perp
• 49:52
  Speaker 7: or the suspect on Nancy's porch, it certainly provides some
• 49:57
  Speaker 7: more validation to that tip.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: The mass suspect scene on Nancy's front porch three weeks
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: before her abduction. It's been narrowed down definitely jan eleven.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Definitely Jan eleven to Todd Shipley joining US digital cyber
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: crime expert, former detective Sergeant Reno, twenty five years in
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: law enforcement, author of Surviving a cyber attack, Securing social Media,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: Protecting your Home. He is at dark Intel dot Info.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: I know, on the outside looking in to civilians, this
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: is not a big deal. It is a big deal
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: now we're looking for sure at January eleven, January twenty four,
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: and January thirty one, Feb one. This narrows down the
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: identity of the suspect. Now people can think back, where
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: was X on these dates? Why was he out late
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: that night? That's just a small example. But digitally speaking,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: forensically speaking, how will this help us?
• 51:05
  Speaker 10: Well, one of the things that has happened now is
• 51:08
  Speaker 10: that they've taken that nest camera and gone to the
• 51:11
  Speaker 10: next level of investigation. The general connecting to it and
• 51:17
  Speaker 10: getting data off is the average forensic work that it
• 51:20
  Speaker 10: is done every day. What happened in this case, I'm
• 51:23
  Speaker 10: pretty sure is that they actually did what we call
• 51:25
  Speaker 10: a chip off. They took the device apart, went to
• 51:28
  Speaker 10: the motherboard, took the actual memory chips off and read
• 51:32
  Speaker 10: them directly to get this extra data that was there
• 51:36
  Speaker 10: that they couldn't get otherwise because it was deleted or
• 51:39
  Speaker 10: otherwise removed from the average ability to get to it.
• 51:43
  Speaker 10: So they did a very sophisticated process, got the data
• 51:47
  Speaker 10: off there and now had new evidence that we didn't have.
• 51:50
  Speaker 10: And this took them a while to do. It wasn't
• 51:52
  Speaker 10: something that was easily done, because it's partly destructive when
• 51:56
  Speaker 10: it takes this kind of technique to get the data off.
• 52:00
  Speaker 10: And so they were able to get that information and
• 52:01
  Speaker 10: produce new photos that show exactly when this guy was
• 52:05
  Speaker 10: there at a previous day.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Back to Dave Mac, the FBI in Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: in the last twenty four hours, asking about neighbors who
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: moved out before Nancy vanished. They're also keenly interested in
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: a home that is under construction, and they want the
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: names of all the crew members who worked on the house. Bam,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: what about it, Dave.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: Mac, Nancy dead on accurate. Let's take him one at
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: a time. Here, the FBI was back in the neighborhood
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: and looking at these homes under construction and wanting to
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: get all of the employees' names, numbers, contact infosts so
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: they can start running down timelines on every employee that
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: was working on these homes under construction. Now we've talked
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: about this neighborhood before. It is a very upscale neighborhood.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: And there was one home, particularly in this neighborhood that
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: was for rent They don't have a lot of rentals here.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: In this one rental home, the neighbors moved out immediately
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: after Nancy Guthrie's disappearance.
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: Now read into that what you will.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: But they were there until the kidnapping and then gone.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: So we've got the rental home and we've got construction work.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, before we start a vigilante hunt for the people
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: that moved out, you remember how everyone has been attacking
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: Missus Guthrie's son in law and one of his bandmates
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: in some band he plays or played in. I mean,
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: the bandmate's been having to hide in the home and
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: he has children, by the way, he and his wife
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: have children, I learned. But that said, before we start
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: pitchforks and torches outside the homes of the people that
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: moved out, point out that the idea of crew members
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: on construction sites have been notoriously singled out in the past,
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: and it's often been correct. It's going to be hard
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: to put those crew members' names back together again. But
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: that said, I find that really interesting, the FBI back
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: in the neighborhood trying to determine who worked on a
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: construction crew. Do I have that correct, Dave mac.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, you have it exactly correct. They want to know
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: who was there and when they were there. You know,
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: you've got a lot of day workers that do construction.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Depending on the work being done in any given day, Nancy,
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: it could be regular crew that do the work on
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: a regular basis, or it could be people we picked
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: up at you know, on the way in to do
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: one day or two days of labor. They're trying to
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: track everyone down, so it's going to be a herculean effort. Yeah,
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: one I thought they would have I've gone through before.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: Now, well, they may be just learning about the construction crew.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: But that said, Joe Scott Morgan, you know the case,
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Jennifer Kesse and I've worked on it for years. Focus
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: now on the construction crews working along her set of
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: condos and behind them. At the time, Jennifer goes missing.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: They never have tracked them down because, as Dave mac
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: just reported, a lot of them were day workers that
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: you pick up at the grocery store, standing out in
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: the parking lot that need work for the day. It's
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: really hard to find them, some of them being illegals,
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: you know, just all sorts of problems tracking down a
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: construction crew.
• 55:41
  Speaker 9: Yeah, it is, but I got to you know where
• 55:43
  Speaker 9: I'm going to start. I'm going to start with all
• 55:45
  Speaker 9: of these cameras that are on homes around there, and
• 55:47
  Speaker 9: any of those cameras that are pointed toward that construction site.
• 55:51
  Speaker 9: And guess what I'm going to start doing. I'm going
• 55:52
  Speaker 9: to start going frame by frame of every bit of
• 55:55
  Speaker 9: data that I can during the daylight hours of that
• 55:59
  Speaker 9: construction site. We're going to pull those license plates off
• 56:02
  Speaker 9: of all of those trucks. You know, because construction sites,
• 56:05
  Speaker 9: what do you think about You think about big pickup trucks,
• 56:07
  Speaker 9: you think about delivery trucks, all these sorts of things.
• 56:09
  Speaker 9: And that's where the investigation should start. Relative to this.
• 56:13
  Speaker 9: You find the site foreman, you go back, you press him,
• 56:17
  Speaker 9: do you have anybody here that works in this area?
• 56:20
  Speaker 9: I don't care if they are day labor or somebody
• 56:22
  Speaker 9: that's here consistently, or did one of these consistent people
• 56:25
  Speaker 9: bring in a cousin said, hey, man, can you slip
• 56:28
  Speaker 9: my cousin a few bucks? You know he'll carry a
• 56:30
  Speaker 9: bucket of nails for us or plaster or something like that.
• 56:33
  Speaker 9: You have to press, press, press, press on this bit
• 56:37
  Speaker 9: of information. This is gold nancy relative to that site,
• 56:41
  Speaker 9: and also something I would be very curious about points
• 56:46
  Speaker 9: of observation going back to that construction site. What could
• 56:50
  Speaker 9: you see from that construction site, for instance, looking back
• 56:54
  Speaker 9: toward missus Guthrie's home, is it even visible from that perspective?
• 56:58
  Speaker 9: You know what construction workers they climb all over these structures,
• 57:02
  Speaker 9: the skeleton of these structures. They have a POV that
• 57:05
  Speaker 9: nobody else has. They can look down into areas they
• 57:08
  Speaker 9: see a little old lady living in a house. Perhaps
• 57:12
  Speaker 9: perhaps they frame her out as an easy target. So
• 57:15
  Speaker 9: these are the things. I think this is an evidence
• 57:18
  Speaker 9: rich source here. I think they need to press on it,
• 57:20
  Speaker 9: and hopefully they're doing that right now.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: Here's another tidbit of information. We know Joe Scott that
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: whoever the construction crew is that they're interested in, would
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: have to have been there on Jane eleven, probably before that,
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: because if one of them is involved, and that's a
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: big if, because whoever it is is smart enough to
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: outsmart local sheriffs and now take the Feds on a
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: run down a wild goose chase, that have to be
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: there before Jane eleven, the first day of interest, because
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: they didn't just see her home that day and come
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: up with a plan, right, they saw the home, they
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: thought about it, and then went in the neighborhood. So
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: was somebody that was there Jan eleven at least Now
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: did they work on the crew that whole time? Know,
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: they could have come back to the neighborhood, But that said,
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: that's the origin point Jan eleven. Agree, disagree?
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.
• 58:25
  Speaker 9: And also this idea of casing that I mentioned earlier,
• 58:28
  Speaker 9: you know, it kind of got the baiting the blood
• 58:31
  Speaker 9: in the water at this point in time. If they're
• 58:33
  Speaker 9: if they if that's from an observable position where you're
• 58:36
  Speaker 9: looking back at her home, then that puts blood in
• 58:38
  Speaker 9: the water relative to one individual perhaps showing back up
• 58:42
  Speaker 9: to see you know what, let me take a closer
• 58:44
  Speaker 9: look here and you go back to that date that
• 58:47
  Speaker 9: Jan eleven, day, and that's the moment in time where
• 58:50
  Speaker 9: they step in and who knows. They may they may
• 58:52
  Speaker 9: have approached from a different perspective and looked at this
• 58:56
  Speaker 9: residence from that perspective, and they're not caught on the camp.
• 58:59
  Speaker 9: They could be kind of circulating around this environment. You
• 59:03
  Speaker 9: never know, relative to the perspective that they have, there's
• 59:06
  Speaker 9: something that drew this individual's eye. I think that I
• 59:09
  Speaker 9: still think that people are aware because out of all
• 59:12
  Speaker 9: the residences in this neighborhood, they focus on her neighbor,
• 59:16
  Speaker 9: on her home, Missus Guthrie's home, out of everybody else's,
• 59:20
  Speaker 9: they targeted her names.
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: Also, we are learning investigator seeking video as I mentioned
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: nine pm to midnight Jan eleven, and are also interested
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: in an end quote suspicious vehicle spotted on Via and
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: Trata that's a street near Nancy Guthries' home around ten
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: am ten am Jan thirty one. Interesting, What can you
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: tell me about that, Dave matc A suspicious vehicle on
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: a street Via and Trota ten am Jan thirty one.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: Right, And the FBI is looking for every possible surveillance camera,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: ring doorbell camera that they can find pointing towards the
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: road to get us a shot of this suspicious vehicle,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: and they're asking for a block of time from them
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: to eleven thirty am on January thirty first, the morning
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: before the kidnapping that took place later that night. So
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: we're talking about the morning of So this suspicious vehicle
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: on a road nearby. Now suspicious, Not exactly sure what
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: that means, but it's stuck out, Nancy, and it's stuck
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: out during the daytime.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: That says a lot.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: Again, let me stress that no one on that construction crew,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: no neighbor that moved out, has been named as a
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: suspect or a person of interest. These are lines of
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: inquiry by the FBI, and it gives us an idea
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: as to where they're headed in the investigation. Again, the
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: last thing you want, would you agree, if it's Gibbons,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: is to rush down the wrong avenue and name or suspect,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: a POI or a suspect prematurely. That's the first thing
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: you will hear on cross examination if there is ever
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: a trial. Isn't it true you named Brian if it's Gibbons,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: as your first person of interest, and now you want
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: the jury to convict my guy. You don't want to
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: hear that. So no lynch mobs.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 7: Agree absolutely, and in this case has drawn so much
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 7: public attention that law enforcement needs to keep any person's
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 7: of interest or suspects very close to the chest at
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 7: this point, not only to keep the lynch mob, so
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 7: to speak, from forming, but from a very functional standpoint,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 7: they don't want the suspect or this individual to have
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 7: really any information about what they do or don't know.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: Totally Grei.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 11: To whoever has her or knows where she is, that
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 11: it's never too late, and you're not lost or alone,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 11: and it is never too late to do the right thing.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 11: And we are here, we believe, and we believe in
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 11: the essential goodness of every human being.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: And it's stubber tooy straight out to Dave Matt, Crime
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: Story's investigative reporter joining us tonight, Dave mac just what
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: we don't need allegations of misconduct tampering with evidence within
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: the Pema County Sheriff's Department.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: What the allegation is that the Pema County Shriff's office
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: has prevented evidence from being turned over in a timely
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: manner to the FBI and allowing others to investigate this.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: The tampering is holding back with holding information and evidence
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: from others who could actually provide possible solutions to the.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: Problems that exist.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: And we know that he that Nanos has prevented the
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: FBI from coming in right off the bat.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: And that's where this goes back to now.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Claims I'm tampering with evidence allegations on misconduct. Now a
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: recall effort on Nanos. What's happening, Dave.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: You know, Nancy, this started last week. Local politicians have
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: just had their fill. They're embarrassed and humiliated with what
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: Nanos has done. Plus there also was an interview with
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: him under oath in December with Nanos where he said
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: he had never been suspended in the line of duty,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: and that turned out to be not true. So Nanos
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: is really under the gun here and a recall vote
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: is being sought.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: They have ninety days to get.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: All the signatures necessary to actually move forward with a
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: recall vote, and it has begun in earnest.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: Now question in order for a recall vote, I believe
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: they need one hundred thousand signatures to make that happen.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: Here's my concern to Brian Fitzgibbons, joining US Director Operations USP,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: a nationwide security leading a team of investigators around the
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: world to find missing people, including extractions from Mexico. He
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: is a former marine an Iraqi war vet. Recall maybe
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: a good idea, maybe not, but not right now in
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: the middle of this investigation. Nanos's attention is already diverted
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: between this investigation, claims of misconduct and tampering. Of course,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: he's got his reality show to handle. But that said,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: he does not need another diversion of attention.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 7: Yeah, and it's important to remember here that Sheriff Nanos
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 7: is an elected official.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: And I know that that's not.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 7: That's not one hundred percent uniform across the country where
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 7: law enforcement officials are indeed elected, but they're in Pima
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 7: County he is. And what this seems to be is
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 7: political opportunism bringing about this recall, and it's certainly going
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 7: to add quite a bit to the plate of Sheriff
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 7: Nanos where he's going to be worried about protecting his
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 7: politically elected position.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: Now, Dave mac do you recall the discovery of a
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: backpack near Nancy Guthrie's home and after a lot of
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: media attention. It was determined the backpack was not connected
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: to Nancy Guthrie's kidnap. In fact, there were items in
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: the backpack that belonged to a child, a juvenile, and
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: the weathering of the backpack suggests that it had been
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: out in the elements for a really long time, pre
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: dating Nancy's kidnapping. Do you recall that, I do.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: It was found in an area that is often used
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: by homeless people looking for a place to get out
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: of the elements, and there were other items found in
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: there that were indicative of having been out in the
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: elements for a long time. And so while it was
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: a backpack, and while it was near the home of
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie, it really was not part of the case.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: Over a month after eighty four year old Nancy Guthrie
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: vanishes from Rtuson home, the investigation has taken a very
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: disturbing turn. Allegations of misconduct in tampering with evidence, information leaks,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: coordination failures between various agencies now taking center stage when
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: all eyes all attentions should be on finding Nancy Guthrie.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: More scrutiny around the investigation and how the evidence has
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: been handled now mounting questions about the handling of the
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: evidence as the investigation enters a quote more complicated phase.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: Now I want to go back to not just the backpack,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: but a recent discovery found near Nancy Guthrie's home in
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: a wash to what that means is where the torrential
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: water has washed out the soil looks kind of like
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: a dry creek bed. That's what a wash is. Now,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: I want to show you what Adrian f hosted on X.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: I believe we're seeing tan capri shoes, a bedspread, and
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: a knee brace. Am I missing anything? Dave mac What.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: You're looking at here, Nancy is you're looking at an
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: arroyo that has this pants, the tan pants that are
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: seen in that arroyo, the tan shoes that you mentioned before,
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: and a knee brace and all of this near Nancy
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: Guthries's home.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: It is shockingly.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: Close to the home, and you would think that this
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: would be a big deal finding pants, shoes, and a
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: knee brace.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: Thoughts on tan pants, shoes, knee brace, and bedspread, whether
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: they are connected or not, don't you think straight out
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: to Todd Shipley joining us, Todd digital cybercrime expert former
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: detective Sergeant Reno, Nevada, PD twenty five years in law
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: enforcement at Dark Intel dot Info. Shouldn't that have at
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: least been gathered and processed to determine if it's real,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: if it's connected it anyway?
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 10: Well, certainly you would think that in this kind of
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 10: case they would have been gathering everything they can find,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 10: even if they don't necessarily think it's relative at the time,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 10: because once somebody calls something in like that, where are
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 10: they going to go? They don't have any information now,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 10: So yes, they should be collecting everything they can find
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 10: and trying to identify whether it's related or not.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: According to Adrian f posting on social here are the
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: items found today exploring with Jim and we're called in
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: jl R investigates called the items into authorities. Now I
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: want to address that to Joseph Scott Morgan joining US
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. He is the author of
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and he is the
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: star of a hit podcast, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: More important for our purposes tonight. He's a death investigator
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: with over ten thousand death investigations under his belt. Deaths
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: of all sorts. Of course, there are only a few alternatives,
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: natural causes, accident, suicide unexplained, and homicide. That's what he's
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: done his whole life. Now, when we get information, it
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: doesn't have to come from law enforcement. The FBI doesn't
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: have to be walking along the side of the road
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: and has Matt outfit and find this. Citizens can find
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: information and call it in. Then when you put the
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: citizen up on the stand, Joe Scott Morgan, that citizen
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: can be cross examined until the cows come home, until
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: the defense attorney is blue in the face. But that
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean the evidence isn't real just because law enforcement
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: didn't find it.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 9: You're absolutely right, it doesn't invalidate what a citizen might find.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 9: As a matter of fact, I've been involved in a
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 9: number of cases where you have pedestrians that are just
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 9: kind of walking along the way where bits of items
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 9: of bits of what turned out to be evidence were recovered.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 9: They found weapons, shell casings, hell, Nancy. I've had cases
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 9: where a person's dog has drug, human remains up in
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 9: the yard. So yeah, the cops don't have to be
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 9: directly involved in it to validate the evidence. So anything
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 9: that they're out there, and our colleague mentioned this just
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 9: a moment ago. Right now, they don't really have buckcus
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 9: and so anything that's out there that is within the
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 9: spectrum of the vicinity of her home has evidentiary value.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 9: It's a matter of evaluating it to try to see
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 9: what it's worth at this point in time. But in
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 9: order to do that, it has to be documented, it
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 9: has to be preserved, it has to be collected, and
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 9: then it has to be brought in for processing. If
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 9: you don't do these things, then it ain't worth a
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 9: gunpowder to blow at hell, you've just got photos by
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 9: some citizen out there that's saying, well, yeah, we found this,
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 9: but it was never moved on. So everything in this case, Nancy,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 9: is more than critical.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: Just got Morgan, You've been in court so many times
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: that as an expert witness, regardless of who finds the evidence,
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: and maybe that person can be attacked on cross exam,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: did the evidence exist? Is the evidence real? Every witness
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: you put on the stand is not going to be
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: a nun, a priest, or a virgin. Let's just go
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: with that, okay. But the reason I care about this
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: blanket is because there is a theory that Nancy Guthrie
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: was wrapped in a blanket or wrapped up in something
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: there on the front porch and transported wrapped up. Is
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: it true? Don't know, but that's why I care about
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: that blanket. If it's even real. What does the blood
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: tell you? Is that very possible? Based on the blood
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: on her front porch.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 9: We could go down two roads with this, Nancy. First off,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 9: I've had cases where people are bleeding, okay, and say,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 9: for instance, a perpetrator is trying to do what is
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 9: called stem the bleeding, and that can either be an
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 9: individual that is injured and still alive, or can be
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 9: an individual that is deceased, and suddenly the perpetrator looks
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 9: down and says, oh my god, I've got blood. I
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 9: need to stem, I need to stop the flow or
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 9: the presentation of blood. That could happen. Okay, I've seen
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 9: that happen. And then all of a sudden, you know,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 9: when you think about this collection that has been identified
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 9: as Missus Guthrie's blood, why does it just suddenly end?
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 9: And I think that that's a big question, and it's
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 9: a valid question. Or if you've got if you've got
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 9: a surface that is so inundated with blood. That would
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 9: mean a profuse amount of blood in order to have
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 9: it seep through that medium and have it transfer onto
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 9: the ground. I think this happened prior to being wrapped.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: So bottom line, is it possible. That's a yes no
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's possible.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 4: She could have been wrapped up in a book.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 5: She's eighty four years old. Her health, her heart.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 11: Is fracial in every hour and minute and second, and
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 11: every long night has been agony since then.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 5: She is without any medicine.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 4: She needs it to survive.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: We need your help in the midst of the search
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: for her mother. Savannah Guthrie also having to to deal
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: with attacks. Why why attack? A crime victim? Joining me?
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: Renowned psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction Doctor Bethany Marshall.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: She is the author of deal Breakers. You can see
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: her now on peacock and you can find her at
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Also with us Guru pr Guru
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: to the Stars rob Shooter. He's the author of a
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: hit new book that is climbing the charts on Amazon.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: It started with a whisper. He's also a robshooter dot
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: substack dot com. Some of his clients, the infamous Sean
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: Puffy aka Ditty aka Love Comes Britney Spears. I could
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: go on, but I don't understand why this is happening.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: Straight out to doctor Bethany Marshall, the most recent attack
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: on our friend Savannah Guthrie crime victim, is because she
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: is considering going back to work.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 12: Nancy, I would question all of these haters, all of
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 12: these criticizers. Do they spend their entire lives with their parents. No,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 12: they have work, they pay bills, they take care of
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 12: their children. They have lives, and you know why they
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 12: have lives because their parents raised them to have lives. Nancy.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 12: I think everybody who's criticizing Savannah has what we call
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 12: pathological envy. Pathological envy is the is the sense that
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 12: if you have something good, it means I will never
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 12: get it for myself. And we know Savannah has a
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 12: lot of wonderful things about her life. She has her
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 12: sibling group that seems so supportive, She's a star on TV,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 12: she had a and has a wonderful relationship ship with
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 12: her mother. She has a supportive spouse, two beautiful children,
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 12: and I think that the haters are so envious. This
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 12: has put a spotlight on Savannah's life, and when the
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 12: spotlight went on her life, everybody who is envious just
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 12: stepped forward.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: Rob Sheeter joining me. Rob. We've all faced various ups
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: and downs in life. That video from our friends at
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: Fox News, by the way, thank you Fox. When, as
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: you know, my fiance was murdered, I dropped out of school.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: My plan was to be a Shakespearean literature teacher at
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: the university level. That dream was dashed. That said, it
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: took me a long time to get it together to
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: go back to school, which I did. But Savannah, on
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: top of facing the kidnap of her mother, her disappearance,
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: her horrible health is shoes missus guthries the specter that
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: her mom may be dead, that she has not survived
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: this ordeal that's looming heavily. But unlike me, I had
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: no responsibility like Savannah because Savannah has children and that
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: is the overarching responsibility. So it's not just returning to
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: a position at the Today Show. It's returning to her
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: two minor children. I mean, that is her priority. In
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: my mind, that is my priority, and I guess I'm projecting,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: but what do you advise? You know, the other day,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: who was Oh it was Katherine Heigel. Somebody was hating
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: on her for going to a charity event and she
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: actually engaged with the haters. And I get it. You
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: want to say something back, and you may be right,
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: But is it worth it? Are they worth it? I
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: say no? But what do you do in a situation
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: like this? She's getting hey from every corner, from going
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: back to work to her recent reunion with her Today
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: Show co host and friends. I think that just poured
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: gas on the fire. The haters claiming, some people claiming
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: that she's part of the plot to kidnap her own mother,
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: that she's trying to cover up for the brother in law.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: It's crazy talk. So you're the pr guru, What did
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: she do?
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 13: Yeah, professionally, she should tune it out and focus on
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 13: what really matters, which is her health, of family health,
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 13: her children, being a mom is her priority. You have it,
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 13: absolutely right, Nancy. That's not a projection. I've met Savannah
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 13: many many times. We have mutual friends together. This is
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 13: what she wants to do. She wants to be with
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 13: her kids, and her kids have lost their potentially lost
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 13: their grandmother, too, So she's being a mom. That's her
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 13: first priority. She will go back to work. She's indicated
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 13: that she will return to the day. We don't have
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 13: a date. It's completely mind blowing to me that people
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 13: have been this cool, and I think people are going
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 13: through is there's no roadmap to this. We unfortunately all
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 13: know what it's like to have trauma in our lives. However,
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 13: to have a parent to go miss in with very
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 13: few answers. There is no prototype, there is no standard behavior,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 13: there's no road map to follow. So Savannah here is
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 13: a pioneer. What should she do? And I think she
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 13: should just follow her heart. She's got a deep, deep
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 13: faith and so's she's really lean into that. And she's
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 13: been spending a lot of time here in New York
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 13: with her friends. So I think she's doing everything she
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 13: should do everything she needs to do. And let's hope
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 13: that she can tune this hate out. We should put
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 13: out Nancy, though this hate is a minority. Most of
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 13: the response, most of the response has been overwhelming love.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, Rob sheater, Maybe I've got information incorrect here, but
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: aren't you the author of a brand new book that's
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: climbing the charts at Amazon. It started with a whisper,
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: isn't that you?
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 13: It is me, Nancy, that is my book?
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: Okay? And aren't you the star of robshooter dot substack
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: dot com and host of Naughty but Nice podcast? Isn't
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: it truth?
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 13: The star of both?
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 4: Yes?
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: Okay? And isn't it true that you are so the
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: so called publicist to the stars. Isn't that you, rob Shooter?
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 13: That's I've been called that, Nancy Esam.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: Okay. And your advice is follow your heart. That's your advice.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 4: Good.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: You can pay money for.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 13: That, really good advice because everybody wants to speak. When
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 13: I got into crisis management, part one of the hardest
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 13: things to teach people was to let it go. You
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 13: do not have to respond to every single critic out there.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 13: They won't be remembered in the moment. Right now we're
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 13: talking about them, but two three years from now, we
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 13: will be talking about how Savannah handled this with grace
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 13: and dignity and where her life is then. So I
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 13: know it just sounds flippant. I know it sounds like
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 13: the obvious, but try and do it yourself. If somebody
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 13: comes at you at Twitter, try not respond in it's
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 13: a real skill, and I think it's a skill that
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 13: Savannah has.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: Mascot.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: I usually just say thanks for watching, because what else
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: can you say. So your advice is follow your heart. Also,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: don't engage in warfare with battle with the haters, because
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: you know, nobody's paying me thousands of dollars for this advice,
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: like they pay you, Rob Shooter. But I would say
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: engaging with them is like mud wrestling with a pig.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: You get dirty and the pig likes it. So don't
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: do it. Another thing too, doctor, and you can use
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: that if you want to, and you can get good
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: money for that, Rob Shooter Bethy Marshall. On top of
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: everything else that she's dealing with, I think she's trying
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: to compartmentalize, which is a ploy of mine. Maybe I'm
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: projecting that one. It's just too much to think about
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: do something else, put that over there, and focus on this,
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: and by achieving something, you slowly in the back of
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: your mind process everything that's happened. She was attacked. She's
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: being attacked for even mentioning going back to work. Then
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: how did this happen? Doctor Bethany that when the haters
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: saw a video of her having a little mini reunion.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: She went back to thank everyone of the Today Show
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: set for their support. That seemed to throw gas on
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: the fire. Why did that inflame so many people those
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: photos of her?
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 12: Because Nancy, they can see that she's loved, and that
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 12: triggers the envy as well. If she has something good,
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 12: it means that my life is miserable. But you know, Nancy,
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 12: the number one thing I tell trauma victims, and I
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 12: work with trauma patients, is to reass establish their regular routine.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 12: I get very basic with them. Nancy. First of all,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 12: validate their feelings. Of course, this is horrible, tragic, terrifying.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 12: She must be preoccupied with her mother. So validate the feelings.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 12: Then I tell them to drink water. It's that basic, Nancy,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 12: to practice what we call sleep hygiene. To go to
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 12: bed at the same time and get up at the
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 12: same time every morning, open all the windows and open
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 12: the curtains in the morning so that she can get sunshine.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 12: And then go back to your regular routine where there's
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 12: structure and where there is social support. These people have
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 12: been her friends and her professional family for many, many
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 12: many years. She probably does not have that kind of
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 12: support in Arizona, where her mom, Where her mom is,
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 12: so she needs to go back to the people who
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 12: love her and who can listen to her. Trauma patients
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 12: also have to talk about what happened to of them
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 12: as they are ready. Don't ask them too many questions
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 12: because it will trigger anxiety and trauma and stress. But
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 12: they have to know that there's a listening ear there
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 12: somewhere so they can talk about their experience. That's what
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 12: she has with her husband and with her friends in
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 12: New York City and with the Today Show.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: Joining us now in addition to doctor Bethany Marshall and
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: Gary to the Stars PR celebrity rob shooter Dave mac
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: joining me Crime Stories investigative reporter. There have been so
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: many attacks on her. Remember the attacks regarding the ransom.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: Well, Nancy, The attacks about not paying the ransom really
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: go back to things that we are not privy to
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: information between law enforcement and the Guthrie family because we
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: don't know the veracity of these claims these ransom demands.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: The family does, and the family, from what we look
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: at on these videos, they're responding as they're being I'm
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: guessing told to respond. This is something that they're doing
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: in a vacuum. They actually have a lot of people
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: beending their explaining what to do. I mean, who goes
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: through a kidnapping on a regular basis, So the experts
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: are leaning on the family explaining what to do and
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: how to do it, and I'm guessing they're following that instruction.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: Dave Mac. The haters online have even attacked Savannah Guthrie
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: as it relates to her husband, claiming that somehow his
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: job has triggered the kidnap of her eighty four year
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: old mother in the middle of the desert. Listen to this,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: Dave Mac. Her husband, his last name is Filman.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 14: He worked for the Clintons the eight years they were
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 14: in office. Okay, he started a company buck called Grover Park.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 14: Basically what they were they were scrubbers. They would scrub
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 14: the Internet of any bad, anything bad that they did
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 14: not want the public to find out. They would scrape
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 14: the whole Internet so where when you did a search,
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 14: you couldn't find out anything about it. How much you
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 14: want to bet, because the Clintons are going in front
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 14: of Congress that they struck out to this guy because
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 14: he was there cleaner.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: Now, okay, I could listen to her all day long, okay,
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: And she's taken a lot of correct facts and woven
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: them together with this theory that is proud Shrimp, her
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: daughter on TikTok to Rob Shooter joining us Rob. There
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: have also been attacks on Savannah's looks described.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 13: Yeah, people have gone after her for not wearing enough makeup,
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 13: not looking sad enough, not acting like she's riddled with grief.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 13: And there we see Savannah. She looks very different there
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 13: than what we used to seeing her on the Today Show.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 13: And I think people might find that a little jarring
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 13: when they see somebody that normally comes into their living
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 13: room five days a week looking different. People have had
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 13: a lot of questions about that. There she is without
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 13: a professional hair and makeup person. She does not have
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 13: a hairdresser with her in Arizona. She can't win here, Nancy.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 13: Had she traveled to Arizona with a glam squad, had
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 13: she made these videos when she was in full hair
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 13: and makeup, then she would have criticism about doing that too.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 13: And so my heartbreaks for Savannah here because there's always
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 13: going to be people that are going to criticize her.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 13: There she is again with her sister and her brother.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 13: And she's not looking like she looks on the Today Show,
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 13: and she shouldn't look like that either. This is raw Savannah.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 13: This is not the Savannah that we see on any news.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 13: This is real life Savannah. And I think we should
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 13: all cut her a break. A lot of people out
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 13: there are confused by this. I want to give them
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 13: the benefit of the dad here, but it's cruel. It's
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 13: really cruel. Only silver lining here, Nancy. And you know
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 13: Savannah too, is she's a really strong person, and she
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 13: has a really strong faith, and as upsetting as this is,
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 13: she'll get through it. She's gonna be okay.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 11: It's to whoever has her or knows where she is
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 11: that it's never too late, and you're not past or alone,
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 11: and it is never too late to do the right thing.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 11: And we are here. We believe, and we believe in
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 11: the essential goodness of every human being, and it's never
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 11: too late.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about missus
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: Guthrie's disappearance, please call one eight hundred two two five
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: five three two four or five two zero eight eight
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: two seven four sixty three. If you wish to remain anonymous.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: There is a one point two plus million dollar reward
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: for information leading to Nancy's whereabouts. Thank you to our guest,
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: but especially thank you to you for being with us
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: tonight and keeping the search for Nancy Guthrie alive. Nancy
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: Gray signing off for tonight. Good night friend,