Latest / UNCOACHED / Playing for Something More: Keeping Youth Sports in Perspective
Transcript
- Brad: Welcome to Uncoached, a podcast for volunteer coaches and parents figuring out youth sports as we go. Each episode, we keep things simple, five questions to talk about practical insights you can actually use with your youth athletes. Today's guest is Jordan Elder. He's a pastor, a coach, a sports parent, and an author of a new book called Playing For Something More. Jordan has spent years inside the world of competitive youth sports, and his work explores how families can enjoy everything sports have to offer without getting consumed by the pressure and performance that could come with them. Today, we're talking about youth sports, faith, the values we're building in our kids, and how parents and coaches can help make the experience about something bigger than just the scoreboard. Jordan, thanks so much for being here. I'm excited to have this conversation with you. Do me a favor, please give me a little bit of your background and what, what led us to this moment right now Jordan Elder: Yeah. Thanks, Brad. Well, so glad to be on, man. Appreciate the invite to come on, and love the work that you're doing. So yeah, I, I pastor a church called Redeemer. We planted this church about 15 years ago. It's in Round Rock, Texas, so we're just north of Austin, the largest suburb of Austin, Texas. And, um, been, been doing that for about 15 years, and before that I was a coach. Um, and then before that was a, a washed up athlete. So, uh, that's, that's a little bit of my story. I've got three kids. My oldest is a freshman in high school. Uh, then I have a seventh grader, two boys, and then my, my youngest is a little girl, and she is, uh, nine. And so, uh, my boys play a lot of baseball, play basketball, uh, play football. My oldest just had his first high school football game, uh, this week, so that was, that was really fun. And then my, my daughter's getting going. She's, uh, she's doing some fall volleyball, uh, this year, so we're excited about Brad: Okay. No, that's good. A little bit of overlap. I, um, I, my, mentioned my daughter's, uh, eight and she also is doing a little bit of volleyball there and stuff. We haven't gotten into the football world too much, uh, in our house. My, uh, you know, we, we do a little bit of soccer, baseball, basketball. My son is now interested in some flag football. I'm sure you've seen that's kind of popping up pretty big these days. So Jordan Elder: a lot of Brad: anyway Jordan Elder: it's really hard to live in Texas and not play high school football, Brad: Yeah, I, I can imagine. I can imagine. Jordan Elder: Yeah Brad: I can imagine. That's good. Well, hey, um, you've coached youth sports and you've watched it change from both the perspective of a parent and a coach. When did you s- first start thinking, "Hey, we might have taken this whole sports culture thing a little too far"? And what are the things that you saw that maybe started bringing up some concern? Jordan Elder: Well, let me, let me just say this first. I mean, I'm a sports guy, so I don't wanna be the anti-sports guy. Uh, I don't want people to, to have that impression. Like, I'm a sports guy. I love sports today. Uh, I, I played sports as a kid. I was an athlete in high school. I did a little bit in college. I got an undergrad in exercise and sports science. I worked as a teacher and a coach. I've been coaching my kids in multiple sports for so many years. So don't hear me talk about this book and think that it's an anti-sports book. There are actually a lot of people out there that are doing that, especially in my space, like Brad: Yeah Jordan Elder: that are just like, "Hey, you know, um, y- out of sports, get out of sports. It's too time demanding. It's making you miss too much church." Um, that, that's not what this book is about. It's actually to help us sports in their proper perspective. But let, let me tell you when I first started realizing that youth sports today had drastically changed, okay? This was... My oldest is now 14 going on 15, so this was, yeah, seven, eight years ago, and I signed him up to play rec league baseball. He wanted to play baseball. I really wasn't much of a baseball guy, um, but he wanted to play baseball, so signed him up to play rec league baseball, and, I will never forget the very first batting practice, okay? Now, keep in mind, this kid is seven. This is still coach pitch. Like, they just graduated from T-ball, and after the, the very first practice, one of the coaches walked up to me and he asked me, he said, "Hey, Jordan, uh, who, who's your son's swing coach?" And, uh, I seriously, I thought he was joking. And, and, and then I realized he wasn't joking. Like, I'm like, "This kid can barely read. He still sleeps with stuffed animals. I'm not... I, I... He's seven, man. I'm not paying for a swing coach." that-- I think that was when I first realized that there was something cultural about youth sports. And, and that's what I really spend the first part of the book trying to help people understand. Like, culture, culture, uh, is full of expectations and norms and patterns and behaviors that shape people, whether they realize it or not, right? Like, your workplace has a culture, your neighborhood has a culture, and those culture... That the culture shapes us. It's like a tide that pulls us whether we realize it or not. And that's when I first started realizing, like, this is different than when I was a kid. Like, there's an expectation here that a seven-year-old would have a swing coach just because he hits the ball really well. And, uh, and so that's when I first started realizing things were changing. Probably the, the second part of that would be at the end of that first baseball season. Brad: Sure Jordan Elder: uh, uh, he had made All-Star team, then they, they played this summer All-Star series tournament. Uh, when they did well in that tournament, when the tournament was over, the coach sent an email to all the parents basically saying, "Hey, I wanna take this group of kids, and I want them all to come together to this select baseball organization and start playing baseball together year-round." I'm sitting there thinking, "Man, wait a second. Like, it's summer. Uh, football season's in the fall, and then after that's basketball season." And, um, and, and but the expectation was, "Hey, these kids are good. They're seven. They had a great season, so let's ratchet up the competition and the, and the intensity." And so, you know, for me, that's when I was like, this is different. There's something culturally that's going on around youth sports that is, um, that we really need to pay attention to as parents. Brad: Yeah, and you're, I think you're nice. You're saying culturally, but r- honestly, it's business. Let's be, you know, pretty straightforward. It's business. A lot of these organizations are making money, and they wanna pull you in s- uh, you know, year-round. You said a word there that triggers me. You said season. Like, I love seasons. I think we probably both grew up playing in a season. You played one sport, there was an end to that sport, and then you moved on to the next one, and I think that's, you know, a fantastic way to gain a lot of experience and, and have an opportunity as a kid to do a lot of different things. Um, and, and you're right. Seven years old, you know, all of a sudden you're like, your future's written if you're playing baseball year-round, 365 days, you know, without an opportunity too much to play other things. And so it, it is, it is a culture. It is a lot of business and stuff too, though, right? You know. Jordan Elder: money. With anything, Brad: Yeah. Jordan Elder: Yep. Yep Brad: Of course. Of course. Um, and you write about how deeply families can get pulled into this youth sports culture Jordan Elder: Mm-hmm Brad: by things, you know... I, I think in the back of... You know, people might not acknowledge this directly, but I think people are getting pulled in that direction. I say people, parents, in that direction because their eyes light up when they think about things like scholarships or, you know, certain achievements that their child can meech- meet, and even the desire to just, just belong to this logo, right? To, to belong to the popular club in your area. So why do you think it's so easy for the well-intentioned parents to let sports become a bigger part of their family's identity than they ever intended, uh, when they probably first started? Jordan Elder: Yeah. Well, that's what culture does. I mean, it Brad: Ja Jordan Elder: it pulls us. It's like, it's like a tide, right? I mean, you know, I, I remember the first job I ever had. I, I looked up six months in, and I was, like, starting to kinda dress like the people I worked with. You know? Like, Brad: Yeah. Jordan Elder: in your neighborhood, the culture of your neighborhood, you're like, Brad: Ja Jordan Elder: and Joe both got new lawnmowers. Maybe I need a new lawnmower." You know? It's just like, that's what culture does is it Brad: Yeah Jordan Elder: it shapes us. And so, um, youth sports culture is doing that to us whether we realize it or not. It's pulling you, and it's shaping you. And a lot of people don't have eyes to see it, so they just look up, and they're like, "Whoa, what, w- what are we doing with our time, and our money, and our priorities, and our values?" And it just, it just overtakes you. So I think some of that is just human nature, right? Like, we, we wanna see our kids excel. Uh, you're a good parent, uh, that's why, is you wanna see your kids excel. You wanna see 'em have fun. You wanna see 'em play a sport and make friends and... then all of a sudden, the culture of it to- starts to take over, and it starts to become all-consuming. You know, I, I, I talk about this in the book a little bit. I don't think this is the case for everybody, but for some people, part of the pull is kinda that scholarship dream. you know, maybe sports is the avenue for... That, that college is expensive. You know, there's $4 billion a year given out in scholarships. Now you add on top of that all the NIL stuff, and, like, now maybe, maybe Brad: Crazy Jordan Elder: kid and their sport could become a paycheck for me. Uh, so there's some of that. But, you know, to, to maybe even answer this, Brad, at, at a spiritual level, you know, Ecclesiastes 3:11 tells us that, that God has put eternity in the human heart. And so there's this desire in all of us for belonging, for significance, for purpose. And I do think that without realizing it, for some people, you know, your kid's sports team can become a misplaced, um, vehicle for that, right? And so instead of rather finding purpose, and significance, and identity in God, all of a sudden it's like riding on the shoulders of my 10, 11, 12-year-old kid to make me significant. Their performance makes me significant. This is my place to belong. This is my purpose. And so, it's a great... That's what I talk about in the book. Youth sports is a great mission field. It's a great place to serve, and to help others, and to pour into kids, and, and to make a difference and make an impact. It's a really bad idol if you make it Brad: Ja Jordan Elder: your life, if you make it everything Brad: Well, it can, it can start to take over all aspects of your life, you know, like you're talking about. Um, but what that does to the family is everything res- revolves around that sport or that team. All your time is spent doing that. Um, you know, I think you worded it really good. I, I like to say you have to leave room for your family to do nothing. Like, you need to have that down period where you, you've got the family dynamic, you've got the family time just to be together and to do something other than sports, right? It doesn't always have to be sports related. Um, I, I think there's a lot of families that are spend a lot of time on sports and a lot of money, and it's, it's kind of affecting, you know, that family dynamic, the way the kid's being, um, you know, raised. I won't... I'm, I'm not judging anybody, but I think, you know, w- there is a thing of being too busy and not t- and not enjoying your family. Like, I look at my kids and I, you know, I was talking to my wife today. You know, my son's 10, excuse me, my son's 10, and she sent me a video of when he was, you know, six, four years, four years ago. And I was like, "Man, this, this time is just flying by," 'cause I feel like that was yesterday. And it's like, me personally, I wanna soak up as much of this time with them as I can, and I don't want it to necessarily be all about sports all the time Jordan Elder: good. Yeah. It's good to, it's good to put the, the bat away, to put the ball away, and, to, to have a vacation that is not a sports trip. Brad: Yeah. Jordan Elder: you had a vacation that didn't Brad: Yeah. Jordan Elder: baseball field? Brad: That's right Jordan Elder: it's good to, you know, have a weekend where you can take a bike ride, uh, with your kids. Like, it really helped us, honestly, when, when... Uh, like I mentioned, I have two older boys. When my daughter was born, it was really helpful. It was just like, "Hey, you know, she's four, and she doesn't wanna spend every weekend," although she loves Brad: Oh, Jordan Elder: wanna spend Brad: yes. Jordan Elder: the fields. Brad: That's right. That's right Jordan Elder: like, we need to do some stuff for her. We need to make the boys, like, do some stuff for her that she wants to do. And, and that, that actually brought some good balance to our family as well. Brad: No, that's good. A- absolutely. Those siblings, man, they, they get forgotten about quite a bit. You're dragging them everywhere. Like, what Jordan Elder: Yeah. Brad: of life? I mean, granted, they're having fun. They're probably playing in the dirt and with the other siblings, but it's like, you know, Jordan Elder: Living on snow Brad: let's g- let's g- yeah, let's, let's give them their little piece of the family action as well. Jordan Elder: sure. Yeah. Yeah Brad: So, so, so much of youth sports is built around, you know, performance-based things. There's rankings, and you've got, you know, you're, we're collecting stats i- you know, in Game Changer for baseball, left and right. Other coaches are checking this out on all these players. Tryouts or playing time, keeping track of wins and losses. How can parents help kids separate, hey, how did you perform today versus who you are as a, as a little person? Jordan Elder: Yeah, totally. Great question. Yeah. You know, this is where I believe faith is so important for us, right? If, if you're a Christian, then the, the gospel, the Christian gospel is such good news here, right? The gospel tells us that our identity comes from God, what he says about us, right? We-- It's we're loved, we're accepted, we're forgiven, we're free, we're purposed in Jesus. It's not performance-based. Uh, we Brad: Right Jordan Elder: it. We don't deserve it. It's a free gift of God's grace. It, it's about his performance, his life, death, resurrection for us. And so there's a lot of freedom then for the Christian to engage sports a way that's not identity-based. Um, but we have to pay attention to it. If we, if we're not, if we're not paying attention to it, then, uh, then we're, again, we're gonna get pulled by the tide of the culture, which is a culture of performance. You know, the, the way of the world is that, you know, your doing equals your being, so you've gotta perform to be somebody. Y- Uh, uh, that's not the way of, of the gospel, but it is the way of the world. So if... You know, the world says if you do enough, you'll be somebody, and this is especially true in sports. um, and we can, if we're not careful as parents, we can unintentionally reinforce that narrative to our kids. They already feel it. Like, if they're looking at Game Changer, uh, they're looking at the box scores, they're looking at the stat sheet. "Oh, man, three games in a row, and I, you know, haven't made a three-pointer, haven't made a Brad: Right. Jordan Elder: And, Brad: Yeah Jordan Elder: they're already feeling it, and we can reinforce this if we're not careful with our kids, right? You can, you can, um... They have a bad game, uh, God forbid, have a bad season. You play sports long enough, your kid will actually not just have bad games, they'll have an entire bad season. Brad: Yeah Jordan Elder: you can unintentionally reinforce to your child that, you know, that your pleasure and your approval of them rises and falls with their performance. And none of... And most of us would never say that. Most of us would never say like, "Hey, I, I don't love you as much anymore. I'm not as proud of you anymore." Brad: course, you're right Jordan Elder: say that, but we can unintentionally communicate that to our kids. so that's really what this book is about. I mean, it's why I wrote the book is to help parents. There's, there are a few other resources out there for Christian athletes. This book in particular is for parents because as a pastor, I've had so many conversations with sports parents about this, how do we not lose ourselves in sports? Um, how, how do we disciple our kids well through sports? And it is really to help parents keep a gospel-centered perspective on sports for themselves so that they can then help their kid do the same Brad: Yeah, and I think as you're talking, I was jotting down some notes, but the o- one word that came to my mind was that's, in my mind, that's freeing. That is freeing you up as an individual to not be identified by the performance that you have on the field if you're a kid or, or if you're an adult through your child. Jordan Elder: Totally. Brad: And I think, you know, what you're saying resonates really well because it's, it's not like we're doing this to increase that performance, but just imagine the freedom that you have and the, and the weight that would be lifted off your shoulders as a kid if, you know, you did approach it with faith first. Uh, you're, you're the person no matter what happens on this field, just freeing things up, right? Because they're kids, they're not pros. They are going to make mistakes, countless mistakes, many, many different times. And so, you know, let them do that, let them grow on the field, but also support that person that they're growing to be as well. Jordan Elder: I, I wrote down a few practical things on this, 'cause I think this is so critical. Like, I have to fight. You know, I have to fight every single weekend, every time there's a game to, to pra-- I have to be intentional to practice these things. And so I actually-- my wife and I talk about these on a regular basis. But number one, like, watch your body language after a game Brad: Mm-hmm. Jordan Elder: as a parent. Your kids will read your body language before they read the stat sheet. So just watch your body language. Choose your words wisely after a game. have made it a habit because I, as a coach, I'm not coaching my oldest kids anymore. Uh, they're-- other people are coaching them, but I'm still a coach. Once you're a coach, you're always a coach. You know, you're always Brad: Yeah. It's, it's in your blood, yep Jordan Elder: and I have to, to watch myself to make sure that I don't immediately start coaching after the game. And so I just-- Brad: Ja Jordan Elder: one line, and I say it every time. And I try to say it to as many kids as possible, too. But I just say, "I loved watching you play today." That's it. Brad: Ja Jordan Elder: "I loved watching you play today." I heard one other guy say that they have a rule in their family for the car ride home, because often what we can do-- is my third practical tip here. Don't turn the car ride home after a game or practice into a film session, which is often what we wanna do. Like, y-you can talk about those things later, that's totally great, but not right afterward. And I heard one other guy say that the, that their family, what they do is they have a rule. He just made this rule with his kids. He said, "If you wanna talk about the game on the car ride home, keep your hat on." Now, obviously, this is baseball, so it Brad: Okay. Yeah, sure Jordan Elder: "If you don't wanna talk about the game on the car ride home, take your hat off and set it on the dashboard." And I love that. I would like-- We're doing that. You know, let them set the terms, 'cause sometimes they might wanna talk about it. Brad: Yeah Jordan Elder: times they're emotional, they're tired, they're worn out, and the last thing they need is you to kinda pile on and, and, uh, and, and break it all down for them. Brad: Yeah, for sure, and I, I love that. I'm, obviously I'm 100% aligned with, with all of those key points, you know. And I think to add, to build on what you've said there, the car ride home or the after game type of conversation, I'll be honest, we, we don't. Like, we leave it on the field. We'll get in the car. We don't have the hat thing. I like that. Um, but I've made it very clear, hey, if you, you wanna talk about it, then you can bring it up. Otherwise, once we get in the car, we're gonna talk about, hey, where do you wanna go for lunch? What are we gonna do the rest of the day? You know, let's get away from the sport. Um, my approach is I'll make mental notes, and I'll, and I'll think about some things that maybe we should be talking about as a coach, but that stays on the field. That's the next practice, or that's maybe even a day or two later, where we can say, "Hey, you know, you did a great job here, but maybe we could work on a few things." But it's, it's well awa- well away from that game and the, you know, the high emotions. Whether you win or lose, there's high emotions. They're, you know, they're very excited no matter what at the end of that game, and so it's probably a very bad time to bring stuff up Jordan Elder: Yeah, and the old- older they get, the more they are-- they own, uh, the, the more they mature as kids and as athletes, they start to own their own game. So, you Brad: Yeah Jordan Elder: is not gonna wanna break down the game and talk about it afterward. But when you're 14 and you spend three nights a week working on your swing and you just went, you know, O for four in a game, y- they're gonna wanna talk about it, uh, sometimes, but sometimes they're not. And, and so that's why I think letting them, as they get older, really dictate that, how you can support them as a parent. Uh, you know, sometimes as a parent, you do know... You, you know their game as well or better than they do 'cause you watch them Brad: Ja Jordan Elder: Uh, but really letting them dictate whether or not, uh, now is the time to break down their performance. Just be their Brad: For... Jordan Elder: their dad Brad: Absolutely. A-and I don't... Maybe you can give me your perspective. You've got a mix of boys and girls, but I do feel like there's a difference between their attitude after a game between, uh, my son and my daughter. Now, my daughter's young. She's eight years old, but she almost ... They could have lost the... Well, we did. We lost a, a soccer game really bad the last weekend, like by four, four or five goals, and game ended, she didn't care. It was like, "Hey, let's, let's... What are we doing next?" Right? "What are we gonna do this afternoon or, or what's that look like?" My son would have been a little bit more down because I think he comprehends the, I don't know, competitiveness or the, the score a little bit differently, and I don't know if it, it's a difference between boys and girls. Maybe it's the age thing. I don't know. Maybe you've noticed some things, but it, it is a difference in how you coach, uh, boys and girls too a little bit, I think. Jordan Elder: between my two sons. My oldest son is super competitive. He's a grinder. my middle son, or my, my, uh, seventh grader, uh, he is a very good athlete, and he's, he's a... He is competitive in a different way, but he's not a grinder, right? So for him, it's like, "Game's over. Okay, cool. What are we doing? Where are we going to..." Brad: Right Jordan Elder: my oldest son's like, no, he's still in, in like let's get better mode. So even just Brad: Sure Jordan Elder: kids are different. Know your kids. They're all different. Le- learn how to support them best, best you Brad: Yeah, absolutely. So we, we touched a little bit on, on some of the faith-based things that you are, uh, talking about in your book, and then the way you, you approach, uh, sports in general. But as a pastor and a coach, what are some of the Christian values you believe sports can help us build in our kids? Um, and how can parents and coaches be intentional about developing those qualities instead of just kind of hoping they happen, right? You hear people talking about let's raise good teammates and good people, but what are the qualities we're really looking for, and, like, what can we do to be intentional about that? Jordan Elder: Yeah, great question. Yeah. You know, the book talks about si- uh, six postures. I talk about six postures in the book for parents. Those are really more for parents, though, of how we can, uh, help our kids play for something more. Um, but let me actually-- Uh, I saw this question. Uh, two things that I actually don't talk about in the book, but I think that are most important for our kids. The first one is selflessness. I mean, sports teaches you that. It has the ability to teach you that. There are a lot of selfish athletes, and there are a lot of selfish families in sports, but it, it really has the potential to teach you selflessness in a way that many other things cannot, right? Like just, it's not about you, man. Do your job, play your role, celebrate your teammates. Um, be a great teammate. So man, yeah, as a coach, I think using sports to teach selflessness is, is, uh, such a great opportunity that we have as, as coaches and parents. The second thing I, I think is resilience. I mean, listen, life is hard. Uh, life is hard. And, um, uh, from a pastoral perspective, we, we live in a world of sin and death, you know? Uh, there's a lot of suffering that people, like, or you're gonna experience as you get older. And, uh, um, and sports has a really unique way of teaching us resilience, how to work hard, how to persevere, how to endure, how to overcome, um, um, how to battle, you know. And so gosh, yeah, we've gotta use sports to teach our kids those lessons. Uh, I tell my, my sons this especially, like: "Hey, man, the quota is already met on wimpy men in this world. We don't need any more wimpy men. Um, we-- I need you to be strong. I need you to be resilient. I need you to be a leader." And so sports is one of the best avenues, if not the best, to teach kids selflessness and resilience. So in fact, I mean, uh, well, I have a chapter in the book that's about the history, the origins of youth sports, like where sports came from, and it really was this kind of stuff. They-- Uh, James Naismith started basketball as a part of the YMCA to teach character to kids. Um, there were government programs going all the way back to Roosevelt to try and use sports in schools to get sports in schools to teach, um, to teach character, life lessons, Brad: Mm-hmm Jordan Elder: at-risk kids. And so man, it's really this is the good stuff of sports that we can't let the monetization hijack. Brad: Right. And I, I, your, uh, selflessness, fantastic word. I, I'll throw two other words out there that I try to focus on with my teams is humility and grace. No matter what is happening, whether you lose or whether you win, you know, you wanna have your head held high, and you wanna treat your opponents with respect. You wanna treat the referees or the umpires with respect. And, you know, there's some kids, they sometimes they gravitate towards that, um, boastfulness, you know, if they're scoring a lot of goals or if, you know, things are going really well and they get a little boastful. And, um, I do try to take a lot of pride in maintaining this even keel that, hey, we're gonna be the same person whether we win or lose, because we've been on both sides of that as well. That's what I'll always say. We've been on the losing side plenty of times, and we know how that feels, and it doesn't feel good. So we go through the line, and we hand- uh, shake hands at the end of the game. It's just, "Good game. You guys played great," you know, "Thank you" to the refs, and then that's the day, you know? Jordan Elder: and a lot of times we get better. You, I mean, you get better, you're gonna learn more about yourself, about your team, about the game through losing. And, and so yeah, there's, there's a lot of winning that can happen in a loss. And if coaches and parents don't have eyes to see that, then, uh, then it's going-- you're just gonna promote the, the selfishness, uh, Brad: Ja Jordan Elder: And so yeah, I mean, to claim the wins that, that are, that are found in a loss. Brad: Absolutely. And, and there's ... When we talk about your book, you talk about a focus on gentleness in a culture of criticism, I think is the, the term that you used. And you specifically mention the sidelines and that car ride home, which I know we just talked on a, a little bit, but maybe we could dive a little bit deeper into that. What do you think kids actually need from us in those emotional moments after the difficult game? Jordan Elder: Yeah. Uh, Brad: Excuse me. Jordan Elder: called Project Play, um, out of the Aspen Institute. You've maybe heard about it. They're, they're on social media if people wanna follow them. But, uh, they've put out, uh, I think probably every two years or so they put out a new study and of, one of their mo- more recent studies said in a survey that they did of young athletes that the worst part of youth sports for them, for, for the kid was the car ride home. Brad: Yeah. It's, it's amazing. Like, uh, it, it's... I guess that's the, it- you're, you're in that tight area in the car, emotions are high, Jordan Elder: They're Brad: and there's a l- there's a l- yeah, a lot can go wrong in that tight little area, you know? Jordan Elder: and then, you know, as a parent, your, your temptation can be to either criticize the kid. Hopefully, that's not the case, but it is the case for many. Uh, your temptation can be to criticize the refs. It can be to criticize the coach. Uh, Brad: Ja Jordan Elder: there's parents that are criticizing your decisions that you Brad: Of course. Jordan Elder: of Brad: Of course Jordan Elder: Um, and the kids are hearing all of it. so, yeah, I mean, as a Christian especially, right? I mean, this book is written for Christian parents. So, like, I mean, Colossians three 12 says, "Clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, and gentleness." Like always, even at sports. Brad: Ja Jordan Elder: Proverbs 15:1 says, "A, a gentle answer turns away wrath, but harsh words stir up anger." So, like, Brad: That's perfect Jordan Elder: are you stir-- like, what are you stirring up in your kids? What are you, what are you... You know, what, what kind of contribution are you making to the culture of that team or organization that you play for if you're stirring up strife? And so, yeah, I think this is massive for us, to walk in gentleness and, uh, compassion, understanding, and just be for people, man. Be for coaches. Be for referees. Uh, you're there to be a fan, so be, be a fan of your kid and other Brad: That's right Jordan Elder: pick them up when they make mistakes and, and just keep the right perspective. Brad: Yeah, and I want to really highlight something that you said because I think it's super important. Parents, be careful about who you're talking about in front of your kid. You might be critiquing the coach, but I'm sure you're also talking about some of the other little kids and players on the team, or even other parents of that team, and that's gonna chip away at the team unity. You know, your child is gonna take that persona with them to the field wherever they go, and they're gonna have those same thoughts about those kids. So if you've got some negative things that you're thinking or saying about people, maybe just keep those to yourself for a m- minute, and don't say those in front of your kid because you're gonna affect how they are gonna show up to the team Jordan Elder: flush it. Just don't even say it. Don't even say it to Brad: Yeah, probably. Yeah Jordan Elder: flush it. Yeah. It's just not gonna be helpful for anybody. Yep Brad: Uh, for sure. So if you could convince every sports parent to stop chasing one thing and start prioritizing a different thing, what would those two things be? Jordan Elder: Yeah. I love this, man. I saw this on the list. I was hoping we'd have time to get here. This is a great question, Brad. I mean, I, would say start prioritizing your family and your child's heart. That would be the-- Like, what-- And what does that look like for your family to actually think about the heart of your Brad: That's great Jordan Elder: your family, the heartbeat of your family? Because again, the, the tide, the culture of youth sports is so formative, and it's pulling you, and it is dictating how you spend your minutes, your hours, your money, your schedules. Like, you only have one opportunity to raise your family, and so really think about the heart of your family and the heart of your children. Uh, 1 Samuel six-- 16:7 says, "Man looks at what's on the outside. God looks at the heart." And so prioritize their discipleship, not just their athletic development. That's what I would say to Christian families. I mean, use sports as a tool to help cultivate their discipleship. Uh, don't, don't think of it as something separate or different, like church, church, and when we do church or go to church and we say our prayers before bed, that's discipleship, and then sports is sports. to really see those things as integrated. Um, so, uh, yeah. So I, I'm never gonna be the pastor that, that beats people up for missing church for sports. Um, it, it's just... But I am gonna ask people this question in terms of prioritization, uh, how much sports are you missing for church? So I do-- I will ask Brad: It's great. Yeah Jordan Elder: like if it's-- there's not some sports that you're missing for church, then, then your priorities are out of whack. Like, my son missed a tournament this summer so that he could go to youth camp with our Brad: Mm-hmm Jordan Elder: and we're just like, "Man, you're not gonna miss youth camp. You can miss a tournament. You can miss one tournament for church." Like, it's good for Brad: Ja Jordan Elder: some sports for church if, if that's, if that is a pri- if we-- if that's really our priority our faith, then we need to prioritize it. So prioritizing your family, your ch- your children's discipleship, and, and stop chasing everyone and everything else that's being sold to you. That's the big thing. Brad: Yeah Jordan Elder: being sold. You're being sold, um, you know... I mean, I, I don't know why 10-year-olds need a recruiting page, uh, on, on whatever website, but you're being sold a subscription for that. You're being sold more training, more time, more intensity, more, more games, longer seasons. Stop chasing everything that's been sold to you and prioritize your child's development and discipleship. Brad: W- we're thinking very much aligned because I jotted down an answer to this question too, and I, you know, what, what I was thinking is stop chasing making them a better athlete and start prioritizing who they are as human beings or who you want them to grow up to be. Jordan Elder: Yep. Brad: Because, you know, this athletic life, whether we like it or not, is very short-lived. Um, I'm not, I'm never the, the person that's gonna say, "Hey, you can't make it in the big leagues," or, or whatever. But even if they do, right, 25, 30 years old is the max that they're probably gonna get to, right? And there's a lot of life after that. And so you wanna build a good human being as a foundation first and foremost, and focus on that as your drive. Don't always be chasing everything to push your kid to be the best athlete they can be, right? They will grow and mature into the person and the athlete, or the, the athlete and the skills that they're gonna have, but they really need that foundation at a young age for the person they're gonna be Jordan Elder: Absolutely Brad: All right, Jordan, I've got, I've got one more question, kinda curveball I'm gonna throw at you a, a minute. Um, give me your perspective on Sunday morning sports, right? We just talked a little bit about missing church for sports. Um, it's a challenge, right? That's a portion of the weekend when sports happen a lot and they're always in conflict. So maybe from your, uh, pastoral perspective you can give me your thoughts Jordan Elder: Well, obviously my first answer is I don't love it. So I don't love it. I mean, uh, I, I wish that weren't the case, but it has just become the reality. It's, it's really hard. Like, you know, y- at least in my context, I know every area's a little different, but youth sports in Austin, Texas, your options are you stay in a rec league that only plays one game on a Saturday, or, uh, or you move on to select sports, which is gonna get into the weekend and, and tournaments on Sundays. Um, and it's really hard if you-- if, like, your kid really loves the game and they wanna get better and they wanna develop, it's hard to stay in the rec league past 12, 13. It's just the reality. I wish it weren't the case, but it is, especially specialized sports like baseball, soccer, that are so skill development based. You know, it's... You're, you're, you're hitting the ball, you know, 80 miles an hour off the bat and you still have beginners out there on the field, it just gets really dangerous. It's hard to get a good pitch to hit. It's hard to develop. So, many families, Christian families, ha- you know, they, they have to make that move. They don't have to, but they do make the move because they value sports. Their kid wants to play. They wanna help them keep developing. So wrote a whole chapter in the book on this. Um, I, I think that, um, you know, you have to set clear boundaries. You have to cl- set, set clear boundaries on how are we going to participate in church if the sport itself is going to try and encroach upon Sundays, Brad: Mm-hmm. Yep Jordan Elder: most churches meet. So every family needs to just have the conversation. I, I prompt some questions for families to, to use, for parents to use together on kinda how they're gonna set boundaries around that. I think you have to really think about what organization you're gonna play for and do they value your faith? Do they value worship? I wish I had some entrepreneurial energy still in my body. Uh, I, I, fif- uh, 15 years after planting a church, uh, I don't have much of it left. if I did, there's a market for competitive sports that is weeknight and Saturday based, and that leaves Sundays alone. I think so many people would love that, to have their Sunday back. but I just don't have much entrepreneurial energy left, uh, to do that. But I wish somebody would, uh, because I do think there's a market for it. Brad: I agree. I agree. And, I mean, that touches on, you know, we could talk for, for a long time about traveling. You know, I, I, I'm not a huge believer in traveling, um, necessarily to play other teams unless you're just dominating your current area, because I think youth sports is so big that you probably have a lot of good competition in your area. Now, it's not every area, but I do think that that's the case, and I, I agree with you. Like, I'd love to have an opportunity to play more games during the week and on a Saturday, and free up a Sunday where you can spend some of that family time and put a little bit more focus on the, the family dynamic. I think it's a great idea. So Jordan, that's, that's what I have. It's a fantastic conversation. Um, I really, really enjoyed it, and I thank you for your time. Do me a favor and help folks understand, you know, where they can, you know, find more information out about your book, m- maybe more information about you. Um, just give me an oppor- Give, give an opportunity to the audience to learn more about you Jordan Elder: Yeah. Thanks. I appreciate that. I'll-- Well, here's the book. Um, you can find it on Amazon. It's called Playing for Something More: Understanding and Engaging Youth Sports as a Mission Field. It's, uh, it's a short book, 90 pages. I, I wrote it s-short on purpose for, you know, something that sports people would read. Um, it's, uh, every chapter is about four to five pages. There's reflection questions at the end for, for parents to use to, to discuss, and even think it would be a great book for a group of sports, parents that value their faith and value sports to go through together and have conversations together. So you can find the book on Amazon. It's available there on, uh, on paperback, also on Kindle. Uh, it was-- it's almost finished and will be available on audiobook as well, which, which you can get that on Spotify if you listen to books on Spotify. But yeah, you can find it there. And then if you, if you wanna find more out about me, I've got a website that has all of my information. It's just jordanelder.com. You can find information about my church and my ministry and, uh, and the book is, is on there as well. Brad: That's fantastic, Jordan. Um, your congregation's lucky to have you. I appreciate your time so much today. 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