Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Family searches for answers in Susan Cox Powell mystery; Cops say mom & girlfriend burned baby boy

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Family searches for answers in Susan Cox Powell mystery; Cops say mom & girlfriend burned baby boy · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph, Louisiana.
0:13
Speaker 1: Mother tells police she answers the door and is immediately
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Speaker 1: pepper sprayed, maced in the face. She stumbles away, trying
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Speaker 1: to get away of the two men at the door.
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Speaker 1: When she comes back, her little baby, her tiny baby,
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Speaker 1: Levi Cole Ellerbee is gone. I mean, I see, Grace.
0:36
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us,
0:40
Speaker 1: joining me right now, Larry May Her Crime Online dot
0:44
Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter, Larry, that's just the beginning of the story.
0:50
Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning, because in the last hours,
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Speaker 1: a sudden twist, a bizarre twist, has left me reeling
0:59
Speaker 1: on this case. Let's just start at the beginning when
1:02
Speaker 1: the mom, Hannah Barker, tells about getting maced in the
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Speaker 1: face at her own front door. What happened then, Larry, Well,
1:12
Speaker 1: she called nine one and told them about the two
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Speaker 1: men who had confronted her at the front door of
1:18
Speaker 1: her mobile home and through some sort of chemical like
1:22
Speaker 1: pepper spray or mace in her face, she ran off,
1:26
Speaker 1: thinking they were coming after her, and when she came
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Speaker 1: back the baby, she reported that the baby was gone.
1:31
Speaker 1: Police immediately launched a search for the boy, who was
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Speaker 1: not quite seven months old at the point. At that point,
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Speaker 1: and the mother, Hannah Barker, gave them a description of
1:44
Speaker 1: the two men, but that description was never broadcast and
1:48
Speaker 1: it was never released to the public, suggesting that perhaps
1:52
Speaker 1: right from the get go, police were not real sure
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Speaker 1: that the mom was telling them the truth. Sure enough, of,
2:00
Speaker 1: about an hour later, they found the little boy. He
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Speaker 1: was in a fire that had been set next to
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Speaker 1: some railroad tracks, about a mile away from the trailer home.
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Speaker 1: Paramedics took the boy to the Wait wait, wait, wait,
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Speaker 1: Larry Mayher. When you say he was in a fire
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Speaker 1: that was set next to some railroad tracks, you make
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Speaker 1: it sound like he was in a home that caught
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Speaker 1: on fire. That's not what happened, Larry. No, no, no,
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Speaker 1: So someone started a fire next to some railroad tracks
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Speaker 1: and then threw the child in it. I'll tell you what, Larry,
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Speaker 1: somebody better go to jail. At the very least, starting
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Speaker 1: a fire and putting a child, a seven month old child,
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Speaker 1: in the fire, you know at first? Uh tow Joseph's
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Speaker 1: got Morgan, forensics expert author of Blood Beneath My Feet
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Speaker 1: Death investigator professor of forensics at jacksonvill Stay University Joe Scott.
3:02
Speaker 1: At first I thought, well, clearly they suffocated this little
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Speaker 1: baby and then they try to destroy the evidence by
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Speaker 1: burning the body. That's not what happened, because I know
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Speaker 1: for a fact authorities came upon the fire and they
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Speaker 1: airlifted erased the baby to the hospital to try to
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Speaker 1: save the baby, which tells me the baby was alive.
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Speaker 1: Joe Scott. Yeah, yeah, the baby still had signs of life. Nancy.
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Speaker 1: It's sixty five mile distance. They were in Nakinish, Louisiana,
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Speaker 1: which is near on the west side of the state,
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Speaker 1: and they were they had to transport this baby to Sreeport.
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Speaker 1: And so my suspicion is is that when they arrived
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Speaker 1: at the scene and lord knows how they came across
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Speaker 1: this child at this point, uh, they still had signs
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Speaker 1: of life enough to justify them removing the child from
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Speaker 1: the scene and taking the streeport at that point in time. So, yeah,
4:00
Speaker 1: this child was going through an excruciating death, Nancy. And
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Speaker 1: to make and to really put a chill down your spine,
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Speaker 1: they apparently arrived right after this thing has been initiated.
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Speaker 1: There's a lot more to this that I'd like to know.
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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I know. Whoever is involved is
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Speaker 1: going to burn in hell. But I'd feel a lot
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Speaker 1: better if they sat on death road for a while
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Speaker 1: before they got the needle. Putting a child, a living
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Speaker 1: seven month old child into a fire by a railroad track. Well,
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Speaker 1: State of Louisiana will greatly oblige him. I can promise
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Speaker 1: you that. I mean, you know, uh, this baby boy.
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Speaker 1: I remember when the twins were seven months old, Joe
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Speaker 1: scott Um. You know, they were super super premature, and
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Speaker 1: it was my mission every day. They'd be up each
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Speaker 1: one twelve thirty, then one thirty, then three already, then
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Speaker 1: five thirty, and I'd just get up at five um
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Speaker 1: too to keep them alive. Lucy was born at two pounds,
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Speaker 1: you know that, John David at five and it was
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Speaker 1: my mission to keep them alive. And I remember how
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Speaker 1: helpless they were at seven months old, poor little babies
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Speaker 1: after they've been through so much. And this little child,
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Speaker 1: absolutely Levi Cole just a beautiful baby when I think
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Speaker 1: about what he suffered before he died. So then I
5:38
Speaker 1: hear Larry Mayher Crime Stories, investigative reporter Larry. Then I
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Speaker 1: hear that one of Mommy's Facebook friends. I guess anybody
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Speaker 1: can friend you on Facebook. But that's how this woman
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Speaker 1: involved in the scenario was connected through being a ace
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Speaker 1: book friend with mommy. Okay, what do we know about that? Okay.
6:05
Speaker 1: Felicia Nicole Smith is her name. She's twenty five years old.
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Speaker 1: She and the mother, whose name is Hannah Barker, once
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Speaker 1: worked together at a restaurant, an eyehop. They're in Louisiana,
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Speaker 1: and according to neighbors talking to local media, they had
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Speaker 1: developed a relationship between the two of them while they
6:26
Speaker 1: were working together and in the time since they were
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Speaker 1: no longer working together. Um. Felicia Nicole Maurice Smith was
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Speaker 1: charged with first degree murder shortly after the little boy died.
6:40
Speaker 1: She has been in jail ever since. So when you
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Speaker 1: say a relationship with a mom, what do you mean
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Speaker 1: by that? Were they friends? Were they lovers? What were they?
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Speaker 1: According to the people who knew them, they had apparently
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Speaker 1: a romantic relationship. Okay, So how does that go from
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Speaker 1: loving somebody, um, that you made at work, and then
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Speaker 1: suddenly you're connected to their baby being murdered in such
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Speaker 1: a brutal way. I'm not really understanding that. Take a
7:15
Speaker 1: listen to the Louisiana State Fire Marshal Butch Brown. Probably
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Speaker 1: one of the more saddest situations I've ever seen. As
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Speaker 1: you know, we had a six month baby. Uh, it
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Speaker 1: was a victim of a first degree murder uh in
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Speaker 1: a fire. We have arrested one female in that case.
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Speaker 1: The investigation is still ongoing. I really can't comment any
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Speaker 1: more than that, but it is very tragic and it's
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Speaker 1: just very very sad. You know, the n act Is
7:42
Speaker 1: community has really been brought to the needs on this
7:45
Speaker 1: issue that the Chief of Police and I have been
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Speaker 1: kind of talking on a regular basis working working this case.
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Speaker 1: But the community is still await on a lot of
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Speaker 1: the answers and and we will have those answers in
7:55
Speaker 1: the h and probably next a week or so to come.
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Speaker 1: But we do expect other arrest in that case. Which
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Speaker 1: did did the suspect know the family, know the mother?
8:04
Speaker 1: Do we do we know anything about that yet? Yeah,
8:07
Speaker 1: this individual had a relationship with the family and and
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Speaker 1: uh and it certainly had access to the child. Um,
8:15
Speaker 1: so you know, we're still betting through those things. But
8:17
Speaker 1: but it wasn't a random Uh, it wasn't a random act,
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Speaker 1: which is which is important for us to put out.
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Speaker 1: It certainly was an individual who knew the child and
8:27
Speaker 1: had access to the job. Yeah, I mean, I don't
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Speaker 1: think it's a random act either. Or two Joseph Scott
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Speaker 1: Morgan with me Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina lawyer Joseph Scott Morgan,
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Speaker 1: death investigator and Larry may Her Crime Online dot Com
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Speaker 1: investigative reporter Joseph Scott Morgan. I don't think that it's
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Speaker 1: random either. I mean, these two women knew each other
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Speaker 1: from working together, apparently at one point had a romantic relationship,
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Speaker 1: and suddenly she's connected to the disappearance and then the
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Speaker 1: death of the seven month old baby boy LEVI. Now
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Speaker 1: that's not random, of course it's not. No, no, it's not.
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Speaker 1: And that's the reason she's been hooked up on first
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Speaker 1: degree murder charges. Nancy and Louisiana she had do you
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Speaker 1: say that you know you're no? You remind me of
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Speaker 1: so many defendants and I'd say what's your record or
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Speaker 1: witness and they go, well, well, Ms Grace, I I
9:18
Speaker 1: caught a I caught a robbery charge. You caught a
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Speaker 1: robbery charge. Okay. Uh, now you just said she's hooked up.
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Speaker 1: She's hooked up with a first degree murder. Oh uh no,
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Speaker 1: she has been formally charged with murder one in the
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Speaker 1: burning death of a seven month old baby. She didn't
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Speaker 1: catch a murder charge, go ahead, Well, Uh, she's gonna
9:49
Speaker 1: have to live with it at this point. And let
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Speaker 1: me tell you what else. Uh, this was a purposed event. Uh,
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Speaker 1: seven month old that not just mysteriously spontaneously bust adjacent
10:01
Speaker 1: to a railroad track. Uh. Someone took this child out there,
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Speaker 1: They built a fire and introduced this poor living little
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Speaker 1: angel into this hellacious inferno, and the child began to
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Speaker 1: to burn. Uh they've put out there and purpose this,
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Speaker 1: and so that's why she has been charged with first
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Speaker 1: degree murk here. Well, you know what, Joe Scott, You're
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Speaker 1: absolutely right, Larry mayher. That's not the end of the story.
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Speaker 1: In the last hours, a bizarre twist, what happened. Well,
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Speaker 1: the mother was charged with being a principle to first
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Speaker 1: degree murder, which is uh the way Louisiana deals with
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Speaker 1: accomplices and accessories as as a principal to first degree
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Speaker 1: murder charge that carries the same penalty as a first
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Speaker 1: degree murder charge, and now both women have been charged
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Speaker 1: with criminal conspiracy, which means police believe they were in
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Speaker 1: this together and plotted together to kill this little boy.
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Speaker 1: You know what, I hardly even know how do respond
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Speaker 1: to that? The TATS mother. The Tats mother has now
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Speaker 1: been charged as an accomplice in the burning death of
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Speaker 1: her seven month old baby boy, Levi Larry. What do
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Speaker 1: we mean? What do we know about her involvement as
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Speaker 1: of right now hasn't been laid out. We know Felicia
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Speaker 1: Marinna Cole Smith was his facing first degree murder charge
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Speaker 1: charges in the death of Levi. Police have not offered
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Speaker 1: any scenario to explain how these two women might have
12:00
Speaker 1: staged this crime. Um they have imposed what's what they're
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Speaker 1: calling a news blackout because they say, of the high
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Speaker 1: visibility of this particular crime, and so they want to
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Speaker 1: keep everything close to the vest as they continue their investigation,
12:17
Speaker 1: which they have since described as rapidly expanding. Well, I
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Speaker 1: guess at the very get go just got Morgan. They
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Speaker 1: costs knew something was way wrong with the mom, because
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Speaker 1: if you've been maced in the face, you can tell
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Speaker 1: a witness can see on your face. Red, you're crying,
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Speaker 1: your face is all messed up. They probably knew at
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Speaker 1: the very beginning this was all ALIVEE. Yeah, I'm sure
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Speaker 1: the story began to fall apart very quickly thereafter. If
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Speaker 1: she had been maced, her face probably would have been swollen, red, irritated,
12:54
Speaker 1: and hey, guess what she would have the smell of
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Speaker 1: my mace about her. So yeah, I'm sure that the
13:01
Speaker 1: legs of this thing kind of fell off really really quickly.
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Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I'm reading reports about what the
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Speaker 1: state Fire Marshall said they had. They had worked Nancy
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Speaker 1: uh sleeplessly for days upon days upon days to try
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Speaker 1: to bring justice for this child, been working putting their
13:21
Speaker 1: shoulder to the stone. And I'm sure that they've been
13:23
Speaker 1: pressing her on questions just to see how far they
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Speaker 1: could go and and find out what the true story
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Speaker 1: was here. And something didn't smell right, so they're moving
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Speaker 1: forward with this. Take a listen to what a neighbor
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Speaker 1: says about the night of the nine one one call.
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Speaker 1: One one call went out at nineteen. We were outside,
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Speaker 1: so it had to be like eight thirty a forty five.
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Speaker 1: And if you someone just came and took your baby.
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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure we would have saw it or heard
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Speaker 1: it or anything. We did not see nothing. The only
13:55
Speaker 1: time we saw her was when she was running to
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Speaker 1: the manager's office and knocking on the door. Story is
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Speaker 1: shifting and changing, which is sure sign that somebody is lying.
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Speaker 1: You know what, It's very rare that I advocate the
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Speaker 1: death penalty, but burning a seven month old child alive
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Speaker 1: is Taylor made for the Louisiana death penalty. You know what,
14:25
Speaker 1: It is so hard to work cold cases. I know
14:28
Speaker 1: I have worked them myself, especially when you know your
14:31
Speaker 1: co workers and colleagues have already worked the case. But
14:36
Speaker 1: there's a former prosecutor named Kelly Siegler who was a
14:39
Speaker 1: true champion for justice, and she is on a mission
14:42
Speaker 1: across America. What I love about Oxygen's Cold Justice program
14:48
Speaker 1: is that Kelly and her team of detectives take on
14:51
Speaker 1: real unsolved murder cases and get real answers for victims
14:56
Speaker 1: and their families. You will love how immersive this is.
15:01
Speaker 1: You feel like you're right there with the team writing Shotgun.
15:05
Speaker 1: They are passionate crusaders for justice, and I like that
15:09
Speaker 1: that's what makes each case so personal to this team.
15:13
Speaker 1: Watch the new season of Coal Justice, Saturday, six pm,
15:18
Speaker 1: Eastern five Central on Oxygen. It all started when a
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Speaker 1: gorgeous young mom, Susan Cox Powell, went missing. At the
15:33
Speaker 1: very beginning, I'll just put it out there. I know
15:38
Speaker 1: they say cops and investigators are supposed to stay unbiased
15:42
Speaker 1: and not form an opinion, But at the get go,
15:46
Speaker 1: I had a problem with her husband, Josh Powell. I
15:50
Speaker 1: had a problem at the beginning. I didn't like the
15:54
Speaker 1: way he acted. I didn't like his answers. I didn't
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Speaker 1: like the fact that the night his wife goes miss, saying,
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Speaker 1: he claims he's taking his two little boys out camping
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Speaker 1: in freezing, snowy temperatures outside. I would no more putting
16:12
Speaker 1: my children in the back of a car, leaving my
16:15
Speaker 1: spouse behind and take them camping at midnight. No, m
16:20
Speaker 1: that's not how that goes down. And why night of
16:25
Speaker 1: all nights, at the same time she goes missing. I
16:28
Speaker 1: got even more concerned when I found out that he
16:32
Speaker 1: had a fan blowing on the carpet inside the house.
16:36
Speaker 1: I don't like that. Then I found out about the
16:41
Speaker 1: pervy relationship that the husband's father tried to have with Susan,
16:50
Speaker 1: which she resisted and told people about it at the time. Now,
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Speaker 1: the investigation into who Susan Cox's disappearance has reached a major,
17:06
Speaker 1: major stumbling block. That pervy father in law is dead
17:15
Speaker 1: now I can't even pretend I'm shedding tears for Stephen Powell,
17:22
Speaker 1: but I've got a river of tears still for Susan
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Speaker 1: Cox Powell. I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank
17:33
Speaker 1: you for being with us, with me. Susan's sister Denise Ernst,
17:39
Speaker 1: high profile lawyer out of the Seattle jurisdiction, and the
17:43
Speaker 1: Cox family lawyer, my friend and Bremner Cox family private
17:49
Speaker 1: investigator Rose Winkst, and renowned New York psychologist Karen Stark.
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna start at the beginning. Yes, the purvy father
18:04
Speaker 1: in law just died. Not crying for him, but I
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Speaker 1: am crying because it hurts the investigation into where is Susan. Denise,
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Speaker 1: do you recall when Susan first went missing? What happened
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Speaker 1: when she went first missing? I got a call from
18:25
Speaker 1: my dad at work asking me if I had heard
18:28
Speaker 1: from her, and I had talked to her about a
18:33
Speaker 1: week before, because she's making plans to come home early
18:37
Speaker 1: to spend time with uh, myself and my kids, so
18:46
Speaker 1: we could binge watch friends and she could do their hair.
18:50
Speaker 1: She always gave haircuts, and she came to visit and
18:54
Speaker 1: she We're both looking forward to the time to spend
18:56
Speaker 1: with each other as we hadn't been able to with
19:01
Speaker 1: both of our husbands at the time keeping us apart.
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Speaker 1: So I was excited. I was just going through a
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Speaker 1: divorce and single alone, happy, and I was excited to
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Speaker 1: see her again. And I just so my dad I
19:20
Speaker 1: hadn't seen I hadn't talked to him about a week
19:22
Speaker 1: and that she was planning to come home early, and
19:27
Speaker 1: he said he would get back to me that she
19:29
Speaker 1: and the boys and Josh had gone this thing. At
19:32
Speaker 1: that time, you know, I can't even imagine hearing that
19:36
Speaker 1: nobody can find my sister or brother. I, Denise, how
19:41
Speaker 1: did this affect you? At first, I didn't think much
19:45
Speaker 1: of it because I was hoping that, you know, she
19:48
Speaker 1: had actually taken the boys and left. And but after
19:53
Speaker 1: about twenty four hours, when Josh appeared with the boys,
19:56
Speaker 1: that's what that was red flag right there, because she
20:00
Speaker 1: would not be without her boys. So right then I
20:06
Speaker 1: knew something had happened to her. It didn't take weeks
20:10
Speaker 1: or months to know something was wrong. It just took
20:13
Speaker 1: the twenty four hours. Wendy, what do you mean he
20:16
Speaker 1: appeared with the boys where I I know he went
20:21
Speaker 1: to a hotel, a hotel before he went home. Why
20:25
Speaker 1: did he go to a hotel? Um? Honestly don't know,
20:33
Speaker 1: but I was told by my parents that the hotel
20:38
Speaker 1: worker had seen the josh with the boys outside at
20:42
Speaker 1: the Continental breakfast and he had gotten them something to eat,
20:47
Speaker 1: and Charlie had told one of the workers, do you
20:55
Speaker 1: know what happened to my mom? And she had to
20:59
Speaker 1: go and take care of another guest at the hotel.
21:02
Speaker 1: But she came back and the boys and joshuare going
21:07
Speaker 1: oh no, you know. After shortly after they appeared, I
21:13
Speaker 1: guess h Jennifer was able to get his sister, was
21:19
Speaker 1: able to get josh on the phone and told him
21:23
Speaker 1: to hurry home, and that the police wanted to talk
21:26
Speaker 1: to him and asked him, you know, have you seen Susan?
21:29
Speaker 1: You know when the boys spoke about their mom, did
21:35
Speaker 1: one of them say something about her going down into
21:41
Speaker 1: minds looking for crystals or draw a picture of her? Denise, Yeah,
21:48
Speaker 1: one of the pictures I've seen is they had said, um,
21:53
Speaker 1: other than mommy was in the trunk? Was mommy and
21:56
Speaker 1: Daddy went to go look for crystals? But mommy didn't
21:59
Speaker 1: come back again? Another red flag and Bremner Cox Family lawyer,
22:06
Speaker 1: this is significant when they say going to look for crystals?
22:10
Speaker 1: What could that mean? Because you know, and you and
22:13
Speaker 1: I've tried a lot of cases, more than I even
22:15
Speaker 1: want to remember. But when you speak to children, you
22:21
Speaker 1: have to understand their language, have to unlock what they're saying.
22:25
Speaker 1: For instance, if I had a case there was a
22:28
Speaker 1: child witness, I'd say, instead of what day did it happen?
22:31
Speaker 1: Because they don't know I can barely tell you what
22:34
Speaker 1: today is myself, I'd say, was a Christmas triop? Had
22:39
Speaker 1: the Easter bunny come? Uh? Did you have on shorts
22:43
Speaker 1: or long pants in a sweater? To try to identify
22:48
Speaker 1: the time. Okay, that's just an example of how to
22:52
Speaker 1: unlock what a child's trying to tell you when they
22:55
Speaker 1: say mommy went looking for crystals? What could that possibly? Man? Well,
23:01
Speaker 1: you're exactly right, Nancy, and I think it meant that, well,
23:04
Speaker 1: she disappeared. She may have been in a mine. Remember
23:07
Speaker 1: it was midnight when he took a two year old
23:10
Speaker 1: and a four year old camping when it was below
23:12
Speaker 1: freezing um and that was the first red flag, as
23:14
Speaker 1: you noted from the get go, and they did. One
23:17
Speaker 1: of them drew a picture of her in the trunk
23:19
Speaker 1: of the car. And so basically what we're seeing is
23:22
Speaker 1: they're trying to understand the disappearance of their mother and
23:25
Speaker 1: their own words, and maybe she went looking for something
23:28
Speaker 1: they don't. You know, Daddy told him that, you know,
23:31
Speaker 1: mommy's in the mind, mommy's looking for crystals. That's why
23:33
Speaker 1: she's not coming back. Not that their mom's dad and
23:36
Speaker 1: the dad murderer. They're simply trying to understand in their
23:39
Speaker 1: own childlike way what just happened. Well, you know, Karen
23:43
Speaker 1: start with me along with Rose Windquist, Denise Ernston, and
23:47
Speaker 1: Brenner Karen Um for this school I was going through
23:51
Speaker 1: the twins school work and I found pictures that they
23:55
Speaker 1: had drawn and it's something draw something about your family. Well,
23:59
Speaker 1: they got me and my black knee tie and tennis
24:02
Speaker 1: shoes and my hair pulled back and wearing a blue
24:07
Speaker 1: vneck brace T shirt. Okay, they got me down pretty well,
24:12
Speaker 1: and they drew David and his work slacks and you know,
24:17
Speaker 1: pull over shirt and a belt and his briefcase. Okay,
24:23
Speaker 1: that's how they drew him. They're very accurate parents. So
24:27
Speaker 1: when they draw a Mommy in the trunk, I would
24:31
Speaker 1: put money on it that that's accurate. And I would
24:34
Speaker 1: agree because one of the ways that you can tell
24:37
Speaker 1: what children are trying to communicate to you is through
24:40
Speaker 1: their drawings. They're really significant. So if you see money
24:44
Speaker 1: in a trunk, then they're trying to tell you that
24:48
Speaker 1: this is what they saw. And you can count on
24:52
Speaker 1: Nancy that almost almost always, this is what happened. Mommy
24:59
Speaker 1: was somehow in a trunk. Yeah, well, you know what,
25:03
Speaker 1: that's not normal for a child to draw Mommy in
25:06
Speaker 1: a trunk, you know. Denise Ernst with me, Susan's sister,
25:10
Speaker 1: Rose Winquist, the Cox family investigator in high profile lawyer
25:14
Speaker 1: and Bremner to Rose Winquist, the boys said, Mommy went
25:20
Speaker 1: looking for crystals in that terrain in that area. What
25:26
Speaker 1: could that have meant? Rose win Quist? Nancy, that could
25:29
Speaker 1: have meant multitude of things. Um, we're trained to narrow
25:34
Speaker 1: down exactly where Josh was that evening and next day
25:41
Speaker 1: by either witness testimony or where his cell phone pinged
25:47
Speaker 1: off the tower. And I think there's several mine chefs
25:54
Speaker 1: in the area that we think he went, and um
26:00
Speaker 1: One in particular is of great interest to me because
26:04
Speaker 1: it was set on fire in spring of two thousand
26:09
Speaker 1: and ten. And we know that Josh was in Utah
26:13
Speaker 1: in the spring of two thousand and ten, even though
26:15
Speaker 1: he moved back to Washington shortly after Susan disappeared. You know,
26:21
Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier to Susan's sister Denise, you mentioned something
26:26
Speaker 1: about Susan's dad. What was the relationship between Susan's dad,
26:32
Speaker 1: Susan Cox's dad and her husband, Josh Powell. Between johsh
26:38
Speaker 1: and my dad, he they borrowed money a lot because
26:44
Speaker 1: Josh every time, every time he got a job, he
26:49
Speaker 1: got fired from it or he didn't succeed. And I
26:53
Speaker 1: know at times that they were long Finns. My parents,
26:56
Speaker 1: you know, would just they gave me the money they needed,
26:59
Speaker 1: of course, and you know they were paid back within time.
27:04
Speaker 1: But I think it was more of a strain relationship
27:07
Speaker 1: because my dad would try to talk some intention to Josh,
27:10
Speaker 1: which is you know, nearly impossible. But my dad tried.
27:17
Speaker 1: He really tried to understand how Josh was and how
27:24
Speaker 1: understand his way of thinking. But the more they got
27:28
Speaker 1: to know each other, the more strained their relationship became.
27:32
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, take a listen to Chuck Cox.
27:36
Speaker 1: This is Susan's dad having words with Steve Powell. That's
27:41
Speaker 1: Josh's dad at a shopping center. Listen, why why come
27:46
Speaker 1: here today? Why not? Well, I just came down here
27:48
Speaker 1: because we were going to get a picture of Chuck Cox.
27:51
Speaker 1: We believe he's in violation of the restraining order because Josh,
27:55
Speaker 1: Josh shops at this store, and he was not saying
28:00
Speaker 1: that's fine. I know, I know it doesn't mention fred Meyer,
28:03
Speaker 1: but he knows we shot the fred Meyer. He knows
28:05
Speaker 1: this is our neighborhood store, and that's in the neighborhood.
28:09
Speaker 1: We're gonna laugh. You guys live a few miles apart
28:13
Speaker 1: from exactly these us going to be here, and you
28:16
Speaker 1: came here yourself knowing that we just wanted I wanted
28:19
Speaker 1: to We wanted to see if he was here because
28:21
Speaker 1: we wanted to be able to have something to say
28:23
Speaker 1: at the hearing on Tuesday. We're having a hearing Tuesday.
28:26
Speaker 1: We were going to bring this up with the media.
28:28
Speaker 1: He brought it up with the media. But you came here.
28:31
Speaker 1: I did come here, Yes, I did because I wanted
28:33
Speaker 1: to see what they was going on and I wanted
28:36
Speaker 1: and I have one place to you. How is you
28:38
Speaker 1: coming here and helping to find suits that doesn't helping
28:41
Speaker 1: affiance Susan. How is your standing at our neighborhood market
28:45
Speaker 1: helping to find Susan jum People see the signs and
28:49
Speaker 1: the media over the media. If somebody has seen her,
28:53
Speaker 1: then they can pun there. And you're only getting other stores?
28:57
Speaker 1: Are you doing this that shup? We're doing it in
28:59
Speaker 1: West Valley City, which other stories in a pow other
29:03
Speaker 1: than our super neighborhood up here is where we're doing it.
29:07
Speaker 1: I've only got a small group of Are you going
29:09
Speaker 1: in to the store you shop at? I shop at
29:11
Speaker 1: this store? Are you doing it at Walmart down there? No?
29:15
Speaker 1: We this is the corner You're not. Okay, They're only
29:19
Speaker 1: doing it in the neighborhood where we live. They put
29:22
Speaker 1: they put the billboard that about Susan right side of
29:27
Speaker 1: our neighborhood, right down here. They did their little flyer
29:30
Speaker 1: campaign in our neighborhood. They taped flyers right to the
29:34
Speaker 1: post in front of my house. Have a hard time
29:36
Speaker 1: now with getting her picture out. I mean I don't
29:39
Speaker 1: have a hard time. We've actually talked about putting a picture,
29:42
Speaker 1: you know, a page on our website called the fifty
29:45
Speaker 1: Faces of Susan Powell. There we got pictures of Susan
29:49
Speaker 1: that went down in a public area at a shopping center.
29:56
Speaker 1: So there's no love lost between Susan's family and Josh's family.
30:02
Speaker 1: That was specifically aimed at Josh's dad, who I see
30:08
Speaker 1: as part and parcel of this whole thing of Susan's disappearance,
30:11
Speaker 1: not just the husband Josh, but the dad. He had
30:16
Speaker 1: almost a Svengali control. I thought, am Bremner over the
30:21
Speaker 1: husband Josh Powell because the dad, and I'll put it
30:25
Speaker 1: out there, he is a perv. He is a perv,
30:29
Speaker 1: and he had some sort of control over Josh and
30:34
Speaker 1: well absolutely Nancy and Stephen Powell was of course fell
30:38
Speaker 1: me a little girls next door naked. I represented those
30:41
Speaker 1: little girls. He had liked pages of things relating to
30:45
Speaker 1: Susan during a search, war in execution and a minute,
30:48
Speaker 1: who wa wh wh wh whoa whoa, whoa, whoa, right there,
30:51
Speaker 1: hold on, he had what Now this is the father
30:54
Speaker 1: in law. He has what on? Mommy fort undred pages
30:59
Speaker 1: relating to Nancy. And you covered this really well back
31:02
Speaker 1: at the time and covered this case, you know, beautifully, Um,
31:06
Speaker 1: this tragic case overall. You actually read from some of
31:11
Speaker 1: these journals, some of the entries he had about Susan.
31:13
Speaker 1: I mean he was obsast, he was a vayor with her.
31:16
Speaker 1: He stopped her. Um, didn't he steal her underwear after
31:20
Speaker 1: she put him in the dirty hamper? It's just so okay,
31:25
Speaker 1: all right there, Karen Stark, New York psychologist, No wonder
31:32
Speaker 1: Susan's father hated her. Father in law, Steve Powell. Steve
31:39
Speaker 1: Powell would steal Susan's underwear out of the dirty clothes
31:46
Speaker 1: and take it. Karen, there's gotta be a name for that. Well,
31:50
Speaker 1: it's definitely a perversion. He wants to sniff her underwear,
31:54
Speaker 1: so he's into an object instead of in addition to
31:59
Speaker 1: wanting the person. And there's a sexual a strong sexual
32:03
Speaker 1: desire to be in contact with this person. So he's
32:09
Speaker 1: obsessed with her. Nancy. Pages of photos and so forth
32:16
Speaker 1: on his daughter in law, Denise, aren't SI is Susan's sister.
32:21
Speaker 1: It almost makes me sick to even report that in
32:25
Speaker 1: line of the fact that Susan is missing and we
32:28
Speaker 1: have no idea where she is, and this pervy father
32:31
Speaker 1: in law just dies and that's forever An Avenue will
32:38
Speaker 1: never get answers from him. Did Susan have any idea
32:42
Speaker 1: the links her father in law would go to. No,
32:46
Speaker 1: Susan didn't she and she knew that he had an
32:49
Speaker 1: obsession with her when she caught him peeping at her
32:53
Speaker 1: at his house when she lived there with Josh, and
32:57
Speaker 1: she told me about it, um so that she felt
33:01
Speaker 1: uncomfortable around him, and he wouldn't stop looking at her,
33:04
Speaker 1: and he made advances towards her. UM. I honestly don't
33:08
Speaker 1: think she knew the extent of his sick perversion that
33:12
Speaker 1: he had towards her, but I do know that she
33:20
Speaker 1: He had at once said to her that, um he
33:25
Speaker 1: wanted to share her with Josh, and Josh was okay
33:29
Speaker 1: with it. Take a listen to what the pervy father
33:33
Speaker 1: in law, Steve Powell tells ABC News Abby Boudreaux about
33:39
Speaker 1: his relationship with Susan. Susan was very, very sexual with me.
33:46
Speaker 1: She was very flirtatious. I mean, I'm I'm her father
33:49
Speaker 1: in law. And uh, she she would do a lot
33:52
Speaker 1: of things that that. Um, I mean she was just
33:56
Speaker 1: she did it. I did. I mean, we we interacted
33:59
Speaker 1: in a lot sexual ways because Susan enjoys doing that.
34:05
Speaker 1: Do you think a part of you started falling in
34:07
Speaker 1: love with Susan? That's pretty likely. Yeah, I mean I
34:10
Speaker 1: I yeah, I wouldn't say so. And and and there's
34:13
Speaker 1: no question in my mind that the feelings were mutual.
34:17
Speaker 1: Of course, Steve Powell is lying, of course he is.
34:22
Speaker 1: Where is Susan Cox Powell? The young mother of two
34:27
Speaker 1: goes missing, and coincidently, that very same night, her husband, Josh,
34:31
Speaker 1: claims he's taken the boys camping and freezing weather at midnight.
34:37
Speaker 1: Now we know this is new evidence to me that
34:41
Speaker 1: the dad is spotted. Her husband is spotted at a
34:44
Speaker 1: local hotel taking the boys to the breakfast buffet, and
34:48
Speaker 1: one boy says to a worker, there, you know what
34:53
Speaker 1: happened to my mommy? And later the boys draw a
34:57
Speaker 1: picture of mommy in the car trunk. Well, the investigat
35:00
Speaker 1: nation into the location of Susan Cox Powell has really
35:04
Speaker 1: been dealt a mortal blow, a real kick in the
35:08
Speaker 1: teeth with the death the sudden death of her father
35:11
Speaker 1: in law, who's a perv in his own right, Steve Powell.
35:16
Speaker 1: He has just died. Is the investigation over? No? It
35:20
Speaker 1: is not. Where is Susan Cox Powell? I find it
35:25
Speaker 1: very intriguing that Susan Cox was making a video documenting
35:30
Speaker 1: her possessions inside her home just before she goes missing.
35:36
Speaker 1: Why was that to Denise? Ern't Susan's sister joining me?
35:39
Speaker 1: Why was she doing a video describing possessions in the home.
35:44
Speaker 1: She was told by her lawyer that she had acquired
35:47
Speaker 1: UH that she needed to document everything um for insurance
35:52
Speaker 1: reasons and also for reasons if they were to separate.
35:58
Speaker 1: She had everything documented on who bought what and who
36:03
Speaker 1: owned what, even though you know they're married. Susan had
36:09
Speaker 1: to document everything they had in the house. Oh Man.
36:14
Speaker 1: Basically it was started out as insurance reasons, but Uh,
36:19
Speaker 1: Susan had told me that she had to. She was
36:23
Speaker 1: taking making sure that she had everything on camera to
36:27
Speaker 1: where Josh couldn't deny on what they had because he
36:30
Speaker 1: would have tried to take it away. Take a listen
36:33
Speaker 1: to Susan now missing, making her own video of the
36:39
Speaker 1: family possessions. This is Susan Cox power Listen. This is
36:44
Speaker 1: me hi sorry, and it is can you see that?
36:50
Speaker 1: Four am? And I am documenting all our assets just
36:56
Speaker 1: in case of any emergencies fire, fled, image disputes. And
37:02
Speaker 1: we have to Samsung monitors. And this is Josh's computer
37:10
Speaker 1: and there's some type of backup device and speakers. And
37:14
Speaker 1: here's the kind of pimping out stuff he's done to
37:18
Speaker 1: his computer. He built it himself. I think there's like
37:23
Speaker 1: five hard drives, something about digging raids. There's those for
37:27
Speaker 1: all the computer geeks, and Josh locked this, but this
37:35
Speaker 1: is all of his files locked. Those are his files,
37:41
Speaker 1: and he bought expensive stuff like these are I think
37:45
Speaker 1: this was like a couple with a sudden death of
37:48
Speaker 1: Susan Cox, Powell's father in law, who is a perm
37:53
Speaker 1: in his own right. It's entirely different matter. The case
37:56
Speaker 1: has been dealta mortal blow. Today we are trying to
38:00
Speaker 1: piece together the puzzle as to where is Susan Cox now.
38:05
Speaker 1: According to her husband, the Josh Powell, he loves her deeply.
38:09
Speaker 1: Take a listen to Josh Powell in an ABC interview.
38:15
Speaker 1: Did you kill your wife? No? Did you have anything
38:18
Speaker 1: to do with the disappearance of your wife? Nothing? Nothing?
38:23
Speaker 1: What is the truth? People who know me that I'm
38:27
Speaker 1: a good dad. I work hard, I put my son's first.
38:33
Speaker 1: I was a good husband. I take care of my family. Nice.
38:38
Speaker 1: See you're still wearing your wedding band. Yeah you still
38:43
Speaker 1: love her? Yeah, I guess you could say that I
38:56
Speaker 1: still love her. Why take your two young sons amping
39:01
Speaker 1: after midnight, freezing cold temperatures. Well, we just go out
39:09
Speaker 1: and do things that are fun. But it's after midnight,
39:14
Speaker 1: you know it was shouldn't your son's be sleeping? Weren't
39:16
Speaker 1: they sleeping? People who know me know that time is
39:22
Speaker 1: hard for me to keep track of. My tend to
39:25
Speaker 1: be spontaneous. I do things in the spur of the moment.
39:29
Speaker 1: Why not call work the next morning to say, hey,
39:32
Speaker 1: I was out camping. I'm not going to be in today.
39:34
Speaker 1: To be honest, Saturday was a blur. I was convinced
39:38
Speaker 1: it was still Saturday. I want to go back to
39:40
Speaker 1: the night that Susan Powell goes missing to Amberimner. What
39:45
Speaker 1: more do we know? Well, we know that there were
39:48
Speaker 1: fans of course drawing on the floor there. It was
39:51
Speaker 1: later determined to be Um blood. Her purse was still
39:55
Speaker 1: in the house. Um, Josh took the SIM card out
39:58
Speaker 1: of her phone and and he acts like he tried
40:01
Speaker 1: to call her at work. He said he'd forgotten what
40:03
Speaker 1: dale was. Who whoa whoa whoa whoa hold on, I'm
40:05
Speaker 1: drinking out of fire, hid right here. And Browner tell
40:08
Speaker 1: me that again took the SIM card out of her
40:10
Speaker 1: phone and it was actually found or seen between the
40:15
Speaker 1: seats of his own car. So you know this is
40:18
Speaker 1: in the police at that time. You know, they talked,
40:20
Speaker 1: They talked to the kids. That's tape recorder, you know,
40:23
Speaker 1: they talked to Josh um and and they're investigating this case.
40:27
Speaker 1: But that was a huge clue. I mean, she's got
40:30
Speaker 1: her phone and he takes a SIM card right out
40:33
Speaker 1: of it because he knows she's not coming back. I
40:35
Speaker 1: find that to be extremely persuasive. What do you make
40:39
Speaker 1: of it with me? The Cox family private investigator Rose
40:43
Speaker 1: winqwist Well, I think, Nancy, anytime someone's phone is left behind,
40:49
Speaker 1: and further, the SIM card has been removed, Um, that's
40:53
Speaker 1: a pretty good indicator that he knew for a fact
40:57
Speaker 1: that she wasn't coming back. I think it's overwhelm meaning Denise,
41:01
Speaker 1: this is Susan's sister. What do you make of it?
41:03
Speaker 1: I I believe that when you know, just like Rose
41:07
Speaker 1: was saying Nancy that she was she wasn't coming back,
41:12
Speaker 1: and he was trying to fool everybody. Josh always thought
41:16
Speaker 1: he was smarter than the world. He had actually told
41:20
Speaker 1: my well, I heard him say I got the horses
41:24
Speaker 1: in the room, that he could hide a body and
41:26
Speaker 1: nobody would ever find it. So I believe he thought
41:30
Speaker 1: he was trying to outsmart the police and family everybody
41:36
Speaker 1: pointing fingers at him that she wasn't around by removing
41:40
Speaker 1: the sin card. How what happened to that sin card?
41:44
Speaker 1: I'd like to know. Take a listen to the husband,
41:47
Speaker 1: Josh Powell, as he speaks with ABC. You think she's
41:52
Speaker 1: still alive? At times it's a roller coaster. How would
41:59
Speaker 1: you want to say to her, she's watching, that I
42:02
Speaker 1: miss her, that she's that I love her. She's got
42:09
Speaker 1: two boys who love her, you know. Earlier and Bremner,
42:13
Speaker 1: we were talking about this um stronghold of father in
42:17
Speaker 1: law Steve Powell, who has just died. Seemed to have
42:21
Speaker 1: on his son Josh. After Susan goes missing. Isn't it true?
42:25
Speaker 1: They move, they leave the jurisdiction and moved to another state.
42:28
Speaker 1: That's right, they left and moved to Utah. They've been't
42:32
Speaker 1: They were trying to save money that they didn't have
42:34
Speaker 1: a lot of money, so they lived with Stephen for
42:36
Speaker 1: a while. And basically we're in a room in the
42:38
Speaker 1: house and used like a shower curtain or curtains, you know,
42:41
Speaker 1: for privacy, and Stephen would be peeping at her, making
42:44
Speaker 1: her uncomfortable. You know. There was an interesting um quote
42:48
Speaker 1: that was out here and then to come a news
42:50
Speaker 1: tribune sometime back, and it said something like, never has
42:54
Speaker 1: so much tragedy been visited on one family by one man,
42:57
Speaker 1: meaning Stephen Powell. And that's been all I like ability
43:01
Speaker 1: had to control Josh in his obsession with Susan and
43:05
Speaker 1: his failure to talk. He's never said anything anything whatsoever
43:09
Speaker 1: that would be helpful to the investigation. And when we're
43:12
Speaker 1: talking about the father in law's creepy diary, what did
43:16
Speaker 1: we learn in it? What of significance regarding Susan. I
43:18
Speaker 1: don't care about his perversions. I care about Susan what
43:21
Speaker 1: do we know? Well, he was he was obsessed with her.
43:24
Speaker 1: He acted like he would talk about certain events where
43:27
Speaker 1: he would say that, you know, he was aroused and
43:29
Speaker 1: he could tell she was looking at him through the
43:31
Speaker 1: reflection in a window. You know, he would talk about
43:35
Speaker 1: you know, he would stalk her and take footage of
43:37
Speaker 1: her stills and video and act as if she was
43:41
Speaker 1: reciprocating his interest. He would give her hosiery and then
43:45
Speaker 1: talk about her wearing it and how she supposedly felt
43:48
Speaker 1: attraction to him when he was wearing it. He took
43:52
Speaker 1: a picture of her um where she was holding a
43:55
Speaker 1: bird in her hand, like kissing a bird, and he
43:58
Speaker 1: morphed it to put his own private hearts on her
44:01
Speaker 1: finger and kissing his private parts. And I could go
44:03
Speaker 1: on and on. It's just sick that he had these
44:06
Speaker 1: fantasies that she felt the same way, and he would
44:09
Speaker 1: write at length about her. You know that in itself
44:12
Speaker 1: I find deeply, deeply disturbing, and also the fact that
44:17
Speaker 1: the husband would go along with it to denise, arn't.
44:22
Speaker 1: This is Susan Cox's sister. When they were together, what
44:26
Speaker 1: was their relationship? Like? They were pretty they bickered a lot,
44:32
Speaker 1: and at first it was, you know, get a room
44:36
Speaker 1: kind of thing. They were always clinging on each other
44:39
Speaker 1: and doing everything together and just inseparable. But as time
44:45
Speaker 1: we're on it was basically, uh, stay away from me
44:52
Speaker 1: kind of thing. They didn't talk, they didn't communicate, they
44:55
Speaker 1: didn't they worked close at all. It was more of
44:59
Speaker 1: again he and her, and she did what he told
45:03
Speaker 1: her to. It was more of a partnership kind of
45:07
Speaker 1: because she actually quit doing hair and things that she
45:12
Speaker 1: wanted to do for a living and got her license
45:16
Speaker 1: as a real estate agent just so she could answer
45:19
Speaker 1: his phone calls in case somebody was interested in the house.
45:24
Speaker 1: Stephen Powell, the father in law, a convicted sex offender,
45:28
Speaker 1: the father of the man we believe Josh Powell is
45:33
Speaker 1: involved in his wife's disappearance, has just died. Did the
45:39
Speaker 1: secrets uh Susan Powell's disappearance die with him? We know
45:44
Speaker 1: Powell Steve Powell, was hospitalized for heart complications. He just
45:49
Speaker 1: died in St. Joseph Medical Center to coma. According to
45:53
Speaker 1: Sheriff's what we know is Susan is still missing in
45:59
Speaker 1: the family has no peace. Washington State investigators very open
46:05
Speaker 1: law on the fact that they believe that the husband,
46:09
Speaker 1: Josh Powell, killed Susan, they were unable to produce enough
46:14
Speaker 1: evidence to prompt a murder investigation. I don't get it.
46:18
Speaker 1: Why am brammer. If this case have been prosecuted the
46:21
Speaker 1: get go, we may name more about it, we may
46:24
Speaker 1: have even been able to save Susan. Well. Absolutely, and
46:27
Speaker 1: the excuse if you want to use that word, and
46:31
Speaker 1: I don't think it's the right word, but basically the
46:34
Speaker 1: reason that was given by the West Valley City authorities
46:37
Speaker 1: was we don't have a body. And Nancy, you and
46:39
Speaker 1: I well know that there's plenty of cases that have
46:41
Speaker 1: been prosecuted without a body, and there were circumstantial and
46:45
Speaker 1: direct evidence in this case. But they seemed to keep
46:48
Speaker 1: wanting to think that there would be some word from
46:52
Speaker 1: Josh or maybe even Steven other witnesses that would sinch
46:56
Speaker 1: the case, and that never came to pass. You. They
47:00
Speaker 1: would say, well, we're gonna be close, and you know,
47:02
Speaker 1: hopefully something will happen with this, you know, search or
47:04
Speaker 1: different things, but but nothing came to pass it. Since
47:08
Speaker 1: that case for him and so she was it was
47:10
Speaker 1: never prosecuted, which is a real tragedy. Take a listen
47:13
Speaker 1: to Steve Powell before he passed away. Be the answer.
47:18
Speaker 1: It would be a Josh's vindication that we would move on.
47:22
Speaker 1: They had Susan, they maybe had Stephen Kosher, whom we
47:26
Speaker 1: think she's with. We think that they who I still
47:28
Speaker 1: believe that it's a possibility. But we thought that would
47:31
Speaker 1: be the end of them. We thought they had them
47:34
Speaker 1: down there and they were just going down to pick
47:35
Speaker 1: them up. They had maybe they had to get an
47:38
Speaker 1: extradition or order of some kind and from Nevada and
47:42
Speaker 1: then they you know, Friday morning, they'd have a big
47:44
Speaker 1: announcement for us, and we don't move on and live
47:47
Speaker 1: happily ever after. It just didn't have it. We're really disappointed.
47:51
Speaker 1: And do you believe she's alive? She's like, oh, yeah,
47:53
Speaker 1: we believe that. We believe she's alive. We believe she
47:56
Speaker 1: left with somebody. We're not sure if she's still with
47:59
Speaker 1: that somebody, but I don't know. She probably was there,
48:02
Speaker 1: you hear. The father in law has seems to be
48:04
Speaker 1: extremely interested in his daughter in law's romantic life, claiming
48:09
Speaker 1: she ran away with a boyfriend. You know what, she
48:12
Speaker 1: didn't have a boyfriend. That has been clearly proven by police.
48:18
Speaker 1: What what is he even talking about to Denise Ernst.
48:21
Speaker 1: This is Susan's sister. What is he talking about? I
48:24
Speaker 1: don't know. He's just trying to get I believe he's
48:27
Speaker 1: just trying to get the focus taken off him and
48:29
Speaker 1: pointing to blame at somebody else. Susan had a boyfriend,
48:33
Speaker 1: she would have told me she would have been happy.
48:36
Speaker 1: She wouldn't have been acting, uh, you know, upset and
48:39
Speaker 1: frustrated and feeling trapped like she was. The search goes
48:44
Speaker 1: on for Susan Cox Powell, her family hanging, hanging in
48:52
Speaker 1: the balance, wanting answers too and Bremner, Denise Ernst, Rose
48:58
Speaker 1: wain Quest, and Karen Starr. The search goes on Nancy
49:04
Speaker 1: Grace Crime Stories, signing off Goodbye friend,