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Divorce When Your Ex Controls The Money · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate the podcast, finding the space for all of you in life and love.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Sally Ann Hartnell, and this podcast is for anyone wanting to reclaim and liberate themselves in their relationships and their life.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever you are on your relationship journey, these conversations meet you right there in soulful, deeply supportive DNMs with me and interviews with other gorgeous humans, moving you from where you are to where you most want to be.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: A life and love completely aligned with your deepest desires to have it all on your own terms.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you're seeking a relationship and a life that lights up all of you, you're in the right place.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also like to acknowledge that this podcast is recorded on the traditional lands of the Wurundri people and pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging and acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: And today we're going to talk about money.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Specifically, how best to divorce when your ex has control of the cash.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Money is one of the biggest barriers and the biggest fears for women considering leaving a relationship, especially but not only when there are children involved, or when they have less than full visibility on the financials of the relationship, or where their partner has more control over the financial resources, the money, the cash, than they do, and where they are a little disempowered when it comes to the financial resources, the money.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Even when you just start thinking about leaving, when you start thinking about divorce and what that will mean, dividing your assets, leaving a financially secure situation for something new and something unknown, that unsettling insecurity and uncertainty around what your money situation, what your finances would look like post-divorce, then the whole subject of money, finances just becomes completely overwhelming, completely stressful, and there is a tendency for us to stick our head in the sand and just not look at it, not look at it, put it in the too hard basket and stay somewhere where potentially we're not happy, maybe it's not healthy, but the financial reality of leaving just becomes too big a hurdle to overcome.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes even the most amicable separations tip into less amicable, I suppose, or become fraught when you get to that pointy end of splitting the asset pool, dividing the money.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: But there are other issues when it is your ex-partner or your husband or wife who has more control over the money than you, or your access to the financial resources of the relationship are monitored or limited.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's a whole different and difficult scenario.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, fear is often linked to what's unknown, and with money, it's the same.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you're afraid of your finances, it's often the unknown that you're afraid of.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm not minimizing that very real fear of financial scarcity and the struggle that many will face after divorce, especially women.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: And the only way to overcome it is to face the fear head on, to shine a light on your finances, whatever yours look like.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Whether there is$5,$500, or$5 million in your bank account, get really comfortable with having hard conversations about money and get visibility on your finances however you can.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: We also all have money stories.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: What we're taught and what we learn as we grow up about money, and for many, in part, that can be that we're not good with money, which is bullshit.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that means we abdicate our financial power, our financial responsibility to someone else, to our partner, to our husband, believing that they're probably likely better at it.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Again, bullshit.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe your money story, the money story that you've been taught, is that it's not polite or okay to talk about money.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing is we need to talk about money, especially if you are someone who doesn't have full control or agency or visibility on the money in your life, on the money in your relationship, on the money as you want the relationship that you want to leave or exit or as you navigate your divorce.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So whatever it is that you're afraid of, gather the courage, gain the support so that you can actually face the fear and get clarity on your money situation.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because the statistics are scary.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: With almost 50% of marriages failing, and remember that statistic doesn't include de facto separations, that's just divorce rate.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: 50% of marriages fail.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest growing cohort of people experienced homel experiencing, I'm sorry, homelessness is women over 50.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: And for many of them, a relationship breakdown or divorce is part of their story, is part of their homelessness story.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: So whatever your money story is, whatever stage of relationship or separation or divorce you're at, now, right now is the time to get savvy about money.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Get involved, understand what's going on with your money, get visibility and clarity however you can.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Learn as much as you can about making money, keeping, saving money, spending money wisely and well, creating wealth, multiplying it.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Get visible, get understanding, get educated.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you are getting divorced, that fear around money and finances is further compounded.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: If your ex was or is the one who mostly controlled, maybe still controls the family finances.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: If they had full visibility but you did not, and you don't, or and you still don't, and if they still control the finances and you have limited access to the financial resources of the relationship, and therefore you feel financially disempowered, powerless, and have less control.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's even it's crucial that you, however you can get visibility and access to the money, and that you face that fear and unpack your money story.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: So this episode is about yes, divorce when your ex controls the cash, controls the money.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's also about taking back your personal power, reclaiming your life, reclaiming your financial life so that you can liberate yourself.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I know it's not easy.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: We all have uh you we've all made choices and decisions that have led us to where we are right now.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe you've been a stay-at-home mum, um, your spouse generates the bulk of the income or all of the income and mostly controls the money.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you are the primary earner or an equal partner, perhaps they still control the purse strings and you have limited access or freedom.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's just that freedom to be able to spend without scrutiny.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and maybe as I said earlier, with your money story, they've told you, or you've told told yourself that they are the one who is better with money, or you don't understand the money, or it's just not something that you're particularly interested in.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in my marriage, um I had full visibility, there wasn't there was full access, I had full spending power.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: It was just, and but the investments and that sort of stuff, I just wasn't particularly interested.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I knew where everything was, but it wasn't my jam, it was my ex-husband's jam.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so he did drive a lot of that.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now I was fully financially empowered, and as I said, had full power and and spending capacity, I suppose, full visibility.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: So there wasn't there was no limitation on that, but it just wasn't something that really interested me, and it really interested him.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he drove spreadsheets on all sorts of things.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not interested, not my jam.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: However, since separating, since divorce, it is my jam.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: I know about money, I know about my money, I know where it's coming from, I know where it's going, I've got you know, bills covered, all the things.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: I know what it costs to run my life and live my life.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I want for you.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe at the moment you're in a situation where you have to ask for access to money, you have to get permission to spend, or as I said earlier, you have to justify your spending, and that is a real thing for some of us, for some of you.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, other times it is just part of your money story.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: You tell yourself you have to defend your spending or you have to justify it.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: You're telling yourself that maybe it's not really your money or you don't have the right to spend it.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: So really get clear on what part of this is a real restriction and what part of it is a money story that you're telling yourself.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because there are real situations where you don't have control, and then there are other circumstances where you do, but it comes loaded with guilt or fear or shame about your spending.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So regardless of who actually makes or generated the money in a relationship, the financial assets, and that's cash, shares, superannuation, property, cars, all the things.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: So the financial assets are generally generally considered joint by family law.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And there are there are different, you know, it's different in every circumstance, but generally all of those financial assets go into the into the joint asset pool and are divided.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: But but considering them as joint assets is not always the practical lived reality, you know.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: So often I hear, oh, he made all that money, therefore, you know, that's his, or um, I brought this particular asset, whether it's a car or a or a flat or whatever it is, I brought this particular asset into the relationship 20 years ago, and therefore I get to keep all of it.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's not actually how it works, but we hear that story all the time.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's a story that we have to offset on the regular.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: I have to offset with my clients, and I know family lawyers and financial advisors who work in this space are dealing with that all the time.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now, not being able to access money for your daily needs, your daily essentials, having to ask for it, having it controlled and your spending scrutinized is financial control and financial abuse, and something many women, yes, even smart, intelligent, savvy working women who are generating their own income, they still face it, they still experience it.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: It is a lived experience for many, many women.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, how to overcome this and how to divorce when your ex is controlling the money.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Firstly, as I've said, do all you can do to get clarity, get really clear on what's coming in, what's going out, what you own, and you as a collective, what you own and what you owe, especially if this is not something you've previously had visibility on in your relationship or you currently have visibility on.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Get clear and gain full visibility.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, it might take time and it might need you might mean you need to dig, and it might mean you need to contact other people, your bank accountant, um forensic accountant, I'll speak more to that later.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Whoever and whatever it takes, get clarity, get visibility.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that um Shaya Lewis from the Family Law Project spoke about recently, and I shared it on my socials is that if your ex is not disclosing their superannuation balance, you can contact their superannuation fund.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you just need to know who they're with.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, difficult if it's a self-managed super fund, but if they're with um with a superannuation fund, you can contact them.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think she said it's a form six, um, and you can fill out that form and you can get their superannuation balance without them knowing that you've applied for that.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: As a spouse, as a partner, you can apply for that, you can apply for visibility.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: So there are ways, smart, savvy ways that you can get more visibility on your financials.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you are divorcing with a higher asset pool, I was gonna say a wealthy ex, but that's if you are divorcing with a higher asset pool, you know, perhaps somebody who's come in with family generational wealth and there's investments and there's trusts or a business or a company, then income isn't simple and clear.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: And again, the power the power dynamic in this situation is skewed in your ex's favour.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: So the right support here is crucial.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely an area to research and get deeper support with.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: You will need a specialist family lawyer, you'll need a coach, you'll need a really good financial advisor who is specialized in this space and can guide you through.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: It might take engaging with a specialized forensic accountant who is experienced in this stuff, experienced in separation, divorce, where somebody is not being open, is not fully or openly disclosing, who can help you to uncover your family, your ex's financial position if they're not willing to disclose full details.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes this is the only way.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And while yes, it's going to cost money, it might be the only way, and in the long run, it'll save you or make you more money.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I do suggest you engage with specialist providers, discuss with them about your limited access to the resources of the relationship and see what advice and support they can offer you.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: They're used to dealing with this all the time.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, in terms of upfront payments and all of that, they're conversations that you could that you can have with them.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: But for now, back to you.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: As I said earlier, the way we view money, the way we behave around money goes back to family of origin, to our money stories, to what we're taught as kids growing up in our family of origin about money.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it also has, I think, elements of other parts of the stories that we are taught or we learn through growing up and our lived experience.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what it means to be a woman with money, what it means to be a woman with power, and you know, what it means to be a woman who is in control of her money, her life.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: So autonomy and control over your financial situation, unpacking your money story and what that means and how that has impacted your financial autonomy has to be your number one priority.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, first step in doing that is really get clear on your values and your goals and your priorities.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not priority number one has to be getting your money stuff sorted, um, but then get clear on your values and your goals.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Get clear and be brutally honest with yourself about where are you allowing things or um where are you relinquishing your power and control, where are you not taking ownership and what are you not focusing on?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: So think about your money story and then think about these things.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you allowing?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you just allowing things to go along?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you relinquishing power and control?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you not taking ownership and what are you not focusing on?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: So get really clear.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Also think about the beliefs that are holding you back.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mentioned earlier family or of origin stories about what it means to be a woman with money or woman with power.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: What beliefs are underlying that for you?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And what beliefs around money are keeping you from stepping into financially empowered position or ownership about this?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: You need to have your own resources, your own money, your own savings, your own investments, your own retirement plan and superannuation, even if you don't have them now.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you don't have them now, you need to be stepping towards them.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: You need control, you need choice, you need freedom.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is it that you need to shift or change?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: What do you know?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Ask yourself, what do I need to do so I have a foundational, a financial foundation for myself?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do you need to get a job?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need to get a different job?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need to ask for a raise?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need to retrain in another area so you can change careers?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: What is the one thing that you know you need to do so that you can have a solid financial base?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: You can have choice, agency, and power to make decisions that serve you best.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: What is the one thing you need to shift or change so that you can create that financial safety and foundation for yourself?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need to go back to basics and get some financial education to increase your financial literacy?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need knowledge about investments or superannuation or simply running a budget, tracking your spending and getting full clarity on what's coming in and what's going out, where it's coming from and what it's being spent on?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that you need to know?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you actually know how much it costs to run your household, your family and your life?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And what that would look like as a single person household or income.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: What does it cost to live your life now?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: But also what would it cost to live as a single person, uh, single income household, single parent household?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that you need to know or do, learn or shift or change?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because no one else is coming to save you.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: You need to save yourself here, and to do that you need to take ownership.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you need to have some of your own resources.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: You need well, you don't need a man or a partner, husband, wife to rescue you or save you, but how can you do that for yourself?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to get creative here.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Firstly, I think it's really important without shame or blame or guilt.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Firstly, I think it's really important to acknowledge that I am here because of the choices I have made to this point.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: But being brutally honest with yourself is the first step to clarity and empowerment.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: And again, no shame, no blame, no guilt.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's true for you, even if you have a zero bank balance and a minimum income, and yes, there are a multitude of layers and reasons and lived experience impacts, all of that, and still there's been choice.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you have totally relinquished your own choice and agency, you relinquish your capacity to change or make anything different.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: So acknowledging I am here because of many, many factors, yes, including the choices and decisions and behavior of my current partner or my ex, and I am also here because of choices I've made to this point.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so, what choices, decisions am I going to make going forward?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: What am I going to shift or change?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: What is the one choice you know you need to make to create the change you most want for yourself?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you do want to be around and available for your kids, and you tell yourself that working more means less time with them.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: That is a choice.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe there's a creative solution.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you can start a side hustle, work online, work virtually, work in school hours, you know, get a second, create a second income stream that you can um where you whereby you can generate income after hours when they're in bed, whatever it is.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you can trade time with a family member or a friend so they take care of your kids while you work, so so that your kids are still well cared for by someone who loves them.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not easy and there will be trade-offs, but what is the one thing for you that you know you need to shift or change and create different choices and a different financial foundation for yourself in the future?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you're feeling trapped or stuck or held hostage by your money situation, what are the things that you can do?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: What is one thing that you can do?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Taking ownership is the next step.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Your decisions and choices are one part of why you feel trapped or stuck or held hostage by your money situation.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: So they can also be a part of how you change your financial situation going forward.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: You do have capacity to make decisions for yourself, you do have power to choose.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: No one's gonna save you, no one's coming to save you, you're gonna be your own savior in this.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: So get brutally honest here by acknowledging that what you're currently doing, what you're currently choosing is not serving you or the future you or the financially secure future you want to create for yourself.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: You want to fly solo, you want to leave where you are, you want to create something different, maybe a partnership where you're both bringing in money and resources to the table and you both have ownership, control, agency over the decisions around the money in your relationship, but you want to be able to make your own decisions about money and also about life.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to take ownership and do something different to what you're currently doing.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being here.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: And before we dive into the second part of this podcast episode, I just want to remind you that there's always an opportunity to deepen this conversation one-on-one with me in a free introductory call to discuss coaching options.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: There are also payment plans available if access to financial resources is tricky for you at the moment with really discrete invoicing options that we can also discuss on a call.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Reach out, I would love to support you.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And now, back to the episode.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then next, of course, is Action taking that step, taking a step towards creating an income for your stream for yourself or increasing your income stream.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: As I said earlier, get a job, get a better job, start a business, even if it's just a small cash business that allows you to save some cash independently, to save some money, get creative, explore your options, and find a way you can save a small amount, whatever you can, each way.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: So each week, I'm sorry, so that there's cash you have access to without scrutiny.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: So open your own account if you don't have one.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Open an account in your own name and start saving.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, even if it's five dollars a week.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because what one thing that does is it proves to you that you can do it.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like your empowerment account, your financial power empowerment account, your financial freedom account, your freedom account.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: You can pay for things that you want to do.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: You can pay for coaching, you can leave, you can choose however you want to spend that money.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, when I say open an account in your own name, this will be included in the asset pool should you should you choose to leave.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not advocating hiding money, I'm advocating taking control and having private access.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Having yeah, having a private account that only you have access and visibility, access to and visibility on, so that you can spend that however you choose.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: So in part it's about the money, yes, but in part it's about proving to yourself you can do it, proving to yourself that you're capable of generating money and saving money.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Further to that bank account, I also encourage my clients to make sure they have a private email, purely for all things divorce, separation, money, a private email that only they have visibility on and only they have access to.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: There are also some really great banking and financial apps that you can use to track your spending, and you can do this for your own money, and/or you can use them discreetly for gaining valuable insight into the relationship asset pool, where the money is and where it's going and how it's being used.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: I also really encourage you to get really clear on what you need post-divorce in terms of cash flow and assets.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I speak often about the fact that you can't eat a house, and some people fight to keep control or to ownership of the house post-divorce, post-separation.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: You need both, you need a blend of both.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: So know what it's going to cost you to live your life after divorce, and that determines your cash flow, but also be clear on what assets are the smartest for you to keep and fight for in your property settlement.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: The next part that I wanted to speak about here in terms of money and the difficulty when your ex controls the money is mindset, beliefs, and values.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I touched on them earlier.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: So look at and rewrite your beliefs about money.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's your money story.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe you think money is having money is selfish.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe your story again is that you know, you know good with money, whatever it is.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Get financially healthy, and rather than say things like, oh, I can't afford that.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and Melissa Ma taught me this.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'll drop a link to her stuff in the show notes.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's also a previous podcast episode where I speak with Melissa.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, don't say I can't afford it, say I'm prioritizing other things right now, or I'm choosing to use my money elsewhere right now.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: So get clear on what your values are and what money means to you, because you will spend on things that are important to you.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: You will spend on what you value.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: So if you value health and well-being, that's where you will spend.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you value shoes, that's where you will spend.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you value organic food, that's where you will spend.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: So whatever you most value is where you will spend most.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: So be clear on what your values are.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure that they're actually aligned with the life you most want to live.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: If you value freedom and agency, then you will spend on getting financially literate, on financial empowerment, and you will spend on your savings.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: You'll invest in that freedom account we spoke about earlier.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Your ex2 will spend where and on what they value.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: So if money for money's sake is important to them, they will hold it.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: So they won't spend it.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: If money represents power and control to them, they will hold onto it tightly.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: So whatever it is, whatever that you value, and also know what they value, because that will show up for both of you as you split out your money.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Money can become a weapon, it can be used for revenge, or it could be a source of security, it takes on so many of the meanings, and that shows up, yes, in your relationship, but also compounded and exacerbated as you start to split your money.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, what does money mean to you?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: What are the drivers of your ex when it comes to money?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: What are the values of both of you?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: So the drivers and priorities also become triggers around money and money conversations.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: What triggers each of you?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Power, control, traditions, security, loss of money, lifestyle can trigger your security, your security value, or your need for safety and security.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it might be that it triggers your social rank or your face.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, losing money means losing face.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, what does money mean to you and what does it mean to your ex?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: This can absolutely help you in your negotiations, in your proper in deciding your property settlement because you know your ex very well.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: What are their drivers, their priorities, and their triggers around money, and also what are yours?
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can use these to your advantage, you can use your knowledge and understanding of these values and triggers really wisely and well.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Next, focus on solutions, even if your ex is being difficult, even if your ex is challenging.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: As much as possible in negotiations, choosing not to be completely positional, completely locked in, wanting a win-lose outcome is going to be helpful and supportive for you.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Look for creative solutions, taking into consideration the things you most know about your ex when it comes to money, power, and control.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Work on dialing down your own reactivity by knowing your own triggers, know how to soothe your nervous system, know how to calm yourself and be able to preempt those triggers around money.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And when you are triggered, know how to dial it down.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Also get clear and understand your options and the process, how that's how that's going to work, how the property settlement process actually works, and appreciate that fare isn't always going to be 50-50 in every context.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Approach all of this wherever you're at at the moment, whether you're still in a relationship, thinking about leaving, whether you're in the messy middle of divorce, approach it like a business transaction rather than getting caught up in the emotions of the asset split or clarity around money.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: And key to that, as I keep saying, is getting clear on your money story and your values.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: If you are at the asset division point of your separation divorce, think about what matters most to you.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what matters is the overall pool, and maybe for you that means not worrying too much about the percentage split.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to need to be guided here by your lawyer, your coach, financial advisor, but it might come down to the fact that it's just not worth arguing about five or ten percent, and it might be better for you to allow your ex to win in inverted commas and move on.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's more about considering what's aligned with your values and what's in your best interests and thinking about what is an acceptable settlement for you, an acceptable amount.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but do get specialised advice for your unique situation.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: And again, don't be specifically focused on one part of the property settlement pool, like keeping the house or keeping a particular asset.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, get smart about what is in your best interest moving forward.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes not keeping the house is the smartest thing you can do, sometimes not fighting for that last 5% is the smartest thing you can do, but get specialized uh legal and financial advice there.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Next thing I wanted to talk about is financial literacy.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've touched on it, but I really want to come back to it and say now is the time.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Learn everything you can about your money, about creating financial freedom independent of your relationship status, regardless of where you're at right now.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Generating your own income, building your own wealth, making money, multiplying it, using it wisely and well.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Get clear on how you can make your own money, get clear on how you can save it, how you can make it work for you, how you can multiply it.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: As I said earlier, what it will cost you to live the life you want to live, which is going to be different to what I want in terms of money to live the life I want to live.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: So get really clear.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Get clear on your credit score.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: You can do that online.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just Google it.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, get clear on what you owe any debt.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Understand the difference between good debt and bad debt or not so smart debt.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: Get clear and understand savings.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: How much will you need to retire so that you don't become one of those statistics that we spoke about in the beginning of the episode?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: How much will you need to fund your life independently and then independently into your retirement?
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: There are heaps of resources available to you, low-cost resource as well as high-end, high-ticket costs.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's a great book called On Your Own Two Feet by Helen Baker.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Listen to the episode of the podcast that I recorded with Marion Mays, Smart Ways to, I think it's Smart Ways to Use Your Money After Divorce, and another one with Melissa Maher, I mentioned earlier.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Follow them on socials, check out the work they do in this space, check out Amanda Thompson's work and her self-paced course, connect with Julie Garris at Simple Split Financial.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: I will drop I will drop um links to all of these resources in the show notes to support you to get or to improve, increase your financial literacy.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want to work with me but feel like you don't have the financial resources or don't have access to them yet, let me know and we can talk creative solutions to that.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: I offer payment plans, I offer discrete invoicing and a variety of payment options so that you can have my support without needing to ask someone else, without needing to go to your partner or explain the spend or ask them for the cash.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: And while there are real barriers if your ex controls all the money, and I'm not minimizing them at all, it's hard and it's real, and often it is the biggest barrier that women face when they want to leave a relationship.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: But remember, part of underlying that is fear, it's lack of confidence, it's lack of knowledge, it's lack of experience, it's feeling like you're on the back foot, that you're less powerful and less experienced or educated when it comes to money and finance.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: Education is power, education is key to your empowerment and your freedom, and then generating your own money, making it, keeping it, multiplying it, spending it in ways aligned with your values and on your terms and in ways that you choose.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's the key.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot in this episode.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I know I haven't completely solved the problem of how to divorce when your ex controls the money, but I hope I've given you some tools and some starting points and some steps to take.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I'll link all of those resources I mentioned in the show notes.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if you would like to work with me, book a free intro call and we can chat about how that will look.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: If you know someone who's struggling with some of this stuff, regardless of where they are in terms of their relationship, and you think this would support them, please share the podcast episode with them.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being here as always.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, Relationship Coach, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love this episode, please, please share it with them.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also be so grateful if you'd follow the podcast and review this episode so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more humans just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll join me next month for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberation.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Until then.