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Inside A Vermont Horse Breeding Farm Internship Gone Wrong · Equestrian Tea Time

• 0:03
  Isabeau: Hello, everybody.
• 0:04
  Isabeau: Welcome to Equestion Tea Time.
• 0:06
  Isabeau: I am Isabeau Solace , your host.
• 0:08
  Isabeau: My co-host is Emma Jenkinson of Emma Jenkinson Dressage in Nevada.
• 0:13
  Isabeau: On this episode of our podcast, we have a conversation with Vivian.
• 0:18
  Isabeau: Both Vivian and Emma had the uh unique experience of spending a couple of months in the winter at some very short-lived internships at Freegians of Majesty, uh, which is in Vermont.
• 0:31
  Isabeau: Freegians of Majesty was a uh Freesian breeding farm that had a fairly significant public profile.
• 0:40
  Isabeau: They had possibly up to 200 horses there at one time.
• 0:44
  Isabeau: In 2023 and 2024, they had uh four separate features where horses went to Dorset Equine Rescue and uh gentle giant um horse rescues.
• 0:56
  Isabeau: Um basically their breeding program got out of hand and um they were not able to keep staff on, and the whole thing uh was a mess.
• 1:07
  Isabeau: Despite that, they managed to keep a good public profile.
• 1:10
  Isabeau: A lot of people went there for sleigh rides and um got swept up.
• 1:15
  Isabeau: There's a lot of fusion enthusiasts in the United States, and um people had gone there as tourists or to see shows got a very good impression.
• 1:23
  Isabeau: Uh, but there was another side of the farm where there was just too many horses and too rough conditions, and uh things deteriorated over time.
• 1:31
  Isabeau: So Vivian's gonna tell us about her experience there.
• 1:34
  Isabeau: Um, and we will link to several of the news articles that uh detail more about the seizures in 2023 and 2024.
• 1:44
  Isabeau: Thanks for listening.
• 1:47
  Vivian: Okay.
• 1:48
  Isabeau: Welcome to the case.
• 1:52
  Isabeau: Thanks for joining us.
• 1:54
  Isabeau: Yes, yes.
• 1:56
  Isabeau: So we're so excited.
• 1:58
  Isabeau: You're the first person to uh message us from our podcast, so yeah.
• 2:04
  Vivian: I was I I was like so excited when I found that um podcast because it kind of I haven't talked to any of the people that I used to work with there in quite a while.
• 2:13
  Vivian: So it was like interesting to hear uh your perspective, Emma, um of working there as well.
• 2:20
  Emma: Yeah, thank you.
• 2:21
  Emma: It took me a long time to talk about it, actually.
• 2:26
  Vivian: Yeah, like I was I was rehashing it in my head and it it was making me like it felt like trauma, like it was making me sad.
• 2:36
  Vivian: It was interesting to relive it, like re like um talk about it.
• 2:41
  Vivian: But um, yeah, I understand why you felt that way.
• 2:47
  Isabeau: So uh Vivian, so what do you want to do?
• 2:49
  Isabeau: Do you want to actually do we want to just talk about this place as the farm where you used to work, or do you want to actually mention it, mention the specific name?
• 2:58
  Isabeau: And how much detail do you want to get into here?
• 3:01
  Isabeau: We can just refer to it as the farm, or we can refer to it by its actual name if if you want to put it out out there more.
• 3:09
  Isabeau: Uh, what are you comfortable with?
• 3:11
  Vivian: Yeah, I'm okay um saying the name, that's fine.
• 3:13
  Vivian: Um it I think it'd be good to like refer to the owner, just the owner.
• 3:19
  Isabeau: Okay.
• 3:22
  Vivian: Yeah, but the the the place is fine.
• 3:25
  Vivian: Yeah, I can't okay.
• 3:26
  Isabeau: All right, great.
• 3:27
  Isabeau: Uh let's see.
• 3:29
  Isabeau: So should we start by um Emma?
• 3:32
  Isabeau: Do you want to briefly review uh your time there?
• 3:36
  Isabeau: I don't know how much time you have, Vivian.
• 3:37
  Isabeau: We can jump in with your conversation, or we can go through uh if you're tight on time or you're just eager to uh talk, or we can have Emma just uh remind us of what the details of her time were there first.
• 3:50
  Vivian: Yeah, it'd be cool for Emma to to talk a little bit about.
• 3:54
  Isabeau: All right, Emma, we'll put the burden on you for getting things roll rolling here.
• 3:59
  Emma: Awesome.
• 4:00
  Emma: Um so I did a brief internship there.
• 4:05
  Emma: Um and I'll have to look back at the email because I went back and looked at what years it was.
• 4:10
  Emma: That I'm like torn between what year it was.
• 4:13
  Emma: However, I had just a lot of experiences that almost got me injured.
• 4:19
  Emma: Um, just some husbandry practices that I was not comfortable with and caused a lot of that possible injury.
• 4:29
  Emma: Um, and for years I kind of gaslit myself thinking that it wasn't that bad and that I had failed somehow doing that and then leaving so quickly.
• 4:43
  Emma: But you know, now I look back and I'm surprised I didn't get any lessons like I was supposed to.
• 4:49
  Emma: I didn't get to ride horses, I didn't get any instruction from the dressage trainers there, which is what I was there for.
• 4:58
  Emma: Um, I wasn't paid enough to even leave, and I was kind of stuck there when I wanted to leave, and the living conditions were not okay, and um yeah, and then later on we find out that um he's going through this legal battle over and over, and some of these horses have starved and or been unalived and are at rescues now, and that's when I decided to speak up about it and felt that I probably wouldn't be pursued legally.
• 5:33
  Vivian: Um like all the things you said is so relatable, like everything you said there.
• 5:42
  Vivian: It's like like the isolation, not having enough money, you're scared to leave.
• 5:47
  Vivian: Um, there's also the fact that you're like working with other women or other girls, that uh if you were to leave, that burden would be placed on them.
• 5:58
  Vivian: And it was scary.
• 6:00
  Vivian: It you felt you felt bad because they were your team.
• 6:03
  Vivian: Um and oh yeah, I can totally relate to the um yeah, to all of that.
• 6:09
  Vivian: Um feeling guilty about leaving after like I think you left after three months too.
• 6:16
  Emma: Two two or three months in January.
• 6:19
  Emma: Yes.
• 6:19
  Emma: Wow in the dead of January, and yeah, I remember being guilty by the barn manager at the time as well, and feeling that I needed to leave immediately because I couldn't just sit there in the house with one angry girl who was off that day while everyone else worked, you know.
• 6:37
  Emma: So yeah.
• 6:38
  Emma: I didn't even thought about that while yeah, yeah.
• 6:42
  Vivian: I can totally relate.
• 6:43
  Vivian: Yeah, I I I first got the job.
• 6:45
  Vivian: Well, I call it a job because it was like a job.
• 6:49
  Vivian: It not not really though.
• 6:51
  Vivian: Um, I started the internship um when I was 21 in 2013, and the owner found me on um yard and groom, and it was really interesting because I had posted a video of me riding, and it was just like an ordinary video of me riding, and he was like, Oh, that was amazing.
• 7:11
  Vivian: Like he like chalked, like made it sound like I was an amazing rider, but I was I was the right I could ride horses.
• 7:18
  Vivian: The point of the video was just to show that I was riding so uh or that I could ride, and that was kind of interesting to me that he was like so gung-ho about getting me over there.
• 7:28
  Vivian: Um, because I lived in California and they were in Vermont, obviously.
• 7:33
  Vivian: Um, so that was a big move for me, and I was super excited about it, but it was almost like it was too good to be true.
• 7:41
  Vivian: And so like when I finally got there and got to see what it was like, like um sharing the rooms with uh I think he probably had the same situation where it was like a dorm, but there was like no um privacy, there was only one bathroom, and um it was basically uh isolation, so there was no phone.
• 8:04
  Vivian: There was a phone, but we could only use, I don't know if this is the same for you, but we could only use the phone, I believe, once a week.
• 8:12
  Vivian: Like we weren't we weren't allowed to uh we had no reception too, so I wasn't able to communicate with my mom.
• 8:19
  Vivian: Um and we would only like it, we were only allowed to like uh go out if we had a car, and I did not have a car there.
• 8:29
  Vivian: So I had to had to rely on the other interns, which I think we had about seven at the time, but when I left there were only three of us, so yeah.
• 8:44
  Emma: Big influx there.
• 8:45
  Emma: I had there was Wi-Fi, so I had like a computer or something so I could communicate.
• 8:53
  Emma: But yeah, I did not have phone service there.
• 8:57
  Vivian: It was crazy.
• 8:58
  Vivian: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:01
  Vivian: Um it was completely different from where I was from too, because in California it's we had snow, but in Vermont the winter was horrible.
• 9:15
  Vivian: Like no idea what they're looking for.
• 9:18
  Vivian: Yeah, the pipes would freeze like immediately.
• 9:20
  Vivian: Like we would get ammonish for the pipes freezing, but it's like, dude, like we're trying our best, and like we'd uh at one point I was like crying and my tears froze like it's that cold there.
• 9:34
  Vivian: So possible frostbite kind of things going on.
• 9:39
  Vivian: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:40
  Vivian: I think I have permanent nerve damage in my feet from uh the cold.
• 9:45
  Vivian: I'm pretty sure I do.
• 9:46
  Isabeau: Yeah, I mean, I I live in New Hampshire right now, and I have a few thousand dollars worth of heated gear that I have to deal with this.
• 9:54
  Isabeau: I mean, socks, gloves, I have multiple vests.
• 9:57
  Isabeau: This it's April, I'm still wearing my heated vest.
• 10:00
  Isabeau: Um, you really do need serious equipment to work outside in the winter in New England in England.
• 10:06
  Isabeau: You need serious boots.
• 10:07
  Isabeau: And if it's not electrical and heated, you probably need a few, a few pairs, a few pairs of stuff.
• 10:12
  Isabeau: I mean, the issues with the housing, even as like a paid barn manager, I've had housing that's been sketchy, pipes that have frozen buildings that were probably not meant to be human habitations initially, like they converted a garage or something.
• 10:27
  Isabeau: Um yeah, no, the housing is real, is really uh sketchy sometimes.
• 10:32
  Isabeau: How long were you there for at uh I I was there for three months.
• 10:36
  Isabeau: Okay, oh you do for and that was that what was that the plan?
• 10:40
  Vivian: Or no, I was gonna stay there a year.
• 10:43
  Vivian: And it's funny because the three months still feel like a year to me.
• 10:47
  Vivian: Yes.
• 10:50
  Vivian: Yeah.
• 10:57
  Isabeau: So did did that did they have you all over the farm, or were you mostly working with the young horses or the lesson programs?
• 11:02
  Isabeau: Because there was a bunch of stuff going on there.
• 11:04
  Isabeau: There was like stuff up down, right, and left.
• 11:06
  Isabeau: They had performances and then breeding and all kinds of stuff.
• 11:10
  Isabeau: So were you all over the farm, or were you mostly working in in one section?
• 11:15
  Vivian: All over the farm, I would say, because um I guess the the one that we didn't really touch the most, which is the concerning one for me, was like the back pasture.
• 11:25
  Vivian: And because the horses didn't really have care, they were just fed.
• 11:29
  Vivian: So like pasture was like really it was like a hill, like going downhill kind of.
• 11:35
  Vivian: And it so it was like very muddy, and um, and I only saw that a couple times, and when I did, it was like, oh my gosh, like that was like my eyes were open.
• 11:47
  Vivian: I was like, this is this is not not right.
• 11:50
  Vivian: Like all the other ones were good, except maybe the surrogates didn't get as much attention because they did have surrogate um thoroughbreds that um were were basically they had their babies for the Frisians, it's like a whole thing.
• 12:03
  Isabeau: Embryo transfer mares, yeah.
• 12:05
  Isabeau: Yeah, remote mares, yeah.
• 12:07
  Vivian: That that part of it was interesting.
• 12:08
  Vivian: Like, if I had if I was able to see that part of it and work with that, that would have been made the whole thing worth it.
• 12:14
  Vivian: But also just the fact that like I said, the back horses, when I saw that, I was like, oh my gosh.
• 12:22
  Vivian: Um yeah, like the the the main horses, like the main mares and the main stallions were beautiful.
• 12:29
  Vivian: Like I didn't see like skinny horses at the time that I worked there, but yeah, I noticed I did notice the back lot um was uh not cared for.
• 12:39
  Vivian: Yeah, and they're worms, there are worms, there are very big worms, and yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:45
  Isabeau: Yeah.
• 12:45
  Vivian: I mean I there's so many worms come out of holes.
• 12:49
  Vivian: Oh, really?
• 12:49
  Vivian: Whoops.
• 12:50
  Vivian: Crazy amount of worms.
• 12:52
  Vivian: Like huge! Like, what is that?
• 12:56
  Isabeau: Yeah.
• 12:56
  Isabeau: So and what was the staff turnover like when you were there?
• 13:01
  Isabeau: Were there other people coming in and going?
• 13:03
  Isabeau: Uh there was a barn manager at one point who had been there for a long time, right?
• 13:07
  Isabeau: Wasn't there someone who ran it who had been there for like years?
• 13:10
  Vivian: I think so.
• 13:11
  Vivian: Yeah, the one that I was uh when I was working, what had been working there for quite a while.
• 13:17
  Vivian: She wasn't the nicest barn manager.
• 13:20
  Vivian: Um, she was pretty cruel to me.
• 13:22
  Vivian: So that was that wasn't very fun for me.
• 13:26
  Vivian: Um, but she uh what did you ask before that?
• 13:30
  Vivian: Sorry.
• 13:30
  Vivian: Um, the barn manager.
• 13:33
  Isabeau: Uh sorry, just if there were people who had been there for a while who had lasted and and had other people been turning over while you were there.
• 13:40
  Isabeau: Was somebody headed out the door right when you were coming in?
• 13:44
  Vivian: No, it it was like as I was working there, they started just dropping off.
• 13:49
  Isabeau: Um gotcha.
• 13:50
  Vivian: The three main people that I was working with had been there for I think more than a year.
• 13:55
  Vivian: So they were like a bunch of guys.
• 13:57
  Vivian: And I don't I don't know how they did it.
• 14:00
  Vivian: Um I think that's another aspect of it.
• 14:03
  Vivian: It's like I almost feel like it's because they were from the area, so they were kind of used to it more.
• 14:11
  Isabeau: Gotcha, gotcha.
• 14:12
  Isabeau: Yes, yes.
• 14:14
  Vivian: Or they were just stronger.
• 14:15
  Vivian: I don't know.
• 14:16
  Isabeau: Yeah, that is gotcha.
• 14:18
  Vivian: But I don't know.
• 14:19
  Vivian: Um, yeah, definitely though.
• 14:22
  Vivian: There they're there were a lot of really young girls, like younger than me at the time.
• 14:26
  Vivian: I think they're maybe 18 or something like that.
• 14:28
  Vivian: But those oh boy, they didn't they didn't last as long, obviously, and they dropped off um pretty quickly.
• 14:35
  Vivian: And it was really sad, honestly.
• 14:37
  Vivian: Like um, a lot of them like had like anxiety and like they didn't want to go do the job, which I like looking back on it, I was frustrated with them, but it's like that was a really, really scary, like not scary, but uh intense job.
• 14:55
  Vivian: Like, I can totally understand why they didn't want to work there.
• 14:59
  Isabeau: But yes, yes, didn't want to be there and and didn't want to stay.
• 15:03
  Isabeau: I saw some young, I worked at a farm briefly once, that had brought in two teenagers, brother and sister, I think from overseas, supposed to be for the summer, and they literally weren't even on the property for 24 hours and they left.
• 15:19
  Isabeau: Within a half a day, the sister had decided she didn't want to be there.
• 15:24
  Isabeau: They arrived at noon one day and they were gone before noon the next day.
• 15:30
  Vivian: And you know, you know what?
• 15:31
  Vivian: Good for them, you know, good for them.
• 15:32
  Vivian: Because we stayed there, we did it.
• 15:37
  Isabeau: Yeah, yeah, no, you stayed, you yeah, you stayed hung out.
• 15:40
  Isabeau: So you're only there for for three months.
• 15:42
  Isabeau: So you were mostly mucking stalls or taking care of babies, running around feeding horses.
• 15:47
  Isabeau: Did you do any any riding or anything?
• 15:49
  Isabeau: I think I rode I think I rode three times while I was there.
• 15:54
  Isabeau: Three times.
• 15:55
  Isabeau: All right, cool.
• 15:56
  Isabeau: Was anybody getting the regular lessons that they were supposed to?
• 16:00
  Isabeau: No, I no.
• 16:02
  unknown: No.
• 16:03
  Isabeau: And did you guys actually was there any kind of formally laid out contract?
• 16:08
  Isabeau: What what was like uh was this just email exchange back and forth, or you were just answering there was a job description, and so you just kind of presumed everything in the job description would happen.
• 16:19
  Vivian: Emma, did you have that?
• 16:20
  Vivian: Because I don't recall that.
• 16:22
  Emma: No contract.
• 16:23
  Emma: I got a very lengthy phone call from the guy.
• 16:27
  Emma: He kind of he demeaned me.
• 16:30
  Emma: I sent him some video of me even jumping and said I was my focus would be I wanted riding lessons though, and to work with the trainers.
• 16:40
  Emma: And yeah, he just he told I mean he warned me the about the weather and the living conditions, kinda, and was like, you know, a lot of people come when they can't hang, you know, and um also said a lot of stuff about like, you know, you'll get training here, but you're not quite up to our standards or something, you know what I mean?
• 17:04
  Emma: Oh boy, yeah.
• 17:05
  Vivian: Dude, like my video didn't have jumping in it, it was just me riding around in a pen, and he was like, Oh, you look great.
• 17:12
  Vivian: It's like I've done jumping before, and jumping alone was is a lot more um difficult than what I was doing in that video.
• 17:20
  Vivian: So I I almost sense like from my perspective, I feel like it was almost like a manipulation kind of thing.
• 17:28
  Vivian: But I learned from all the people coming and going how to keep us there one a little longer.
• 17:36
  Isabeau: Yes.
• 17:37
  Isabeau: I don't know.
• 17:38
  Isabeau: Um yeah, you know, just for for entertainment purposes, when Emma and I had first met, he still had, even though he'd had some horses seized, he still had a job listing up.
• 17:49
  Isabeau: So I um got in touch with him and talked to him on the phone because I was just too curious.
• 17:54
  Isabeau: I'd seen this thing for for for for years.
• 17:56
  Isabeau: So his his main sell to me was was that, and mind you, I'm over the age of 50 at this point when I talk, when I talk to him, he was gonna teach his special proprietary method of starting horses.
• 18:09
  Isabeau: It was his special technique, you couldn't get it anywhere else.
• 18:12
  Isabeau: And uh and uh I was like, that's nice, but uh yes, and he went on on and on and kept talking and almost wouldn't wouldn't let me talk.
• 18:21
  Isabeau: Um but yes, I I can totally see having just had that one brief conversation that he's just gonna walk all over anybody who's young and enthusiastic and eager.
• 18:33
  Vivian: Yep, yep.
• 18:35
  Vivian: Yeah, he liked to talk about his um his uh what is it called?
• 18:38
  Vivian: Um when the the foals are born, the uh Oh, he did the name printing thing, yes.
• 18:45
  Isabeau: Yes, that is what he talked about.
• 18:47
  Isabeau: Yes, yes.
• 18:48
  Isabeau: And then we got to see where did he did he ever say where he what his own personal education was?
• 18:57
  Isabeau: Where did he claim to have studied, learned, done anything?
• 19:01
  Isabeau: There was never any talk about that.
• 19:03
  Isabeau: No, no, our no, all right, cool.
• 19:07
  Isabeau: So so you were uh so tell us about what was like your very first day like.
• 19:12
  Isabeau: Hmm.
• 19:14
  Isabeau: Um blocked it.
• 19:18
  Vivian: II No, honestly, like every day was the same.
• 19:20
  Vivian: Like honestly, um, I think the winter just got colder.
• 19:25
  Isabeau: Yeah.
• 19:26
  Vivian: I think that's a difference.
• 19:27
  Vivian: Um because I was there during winter.
• 19:29
  Vivian: Yes, and I could talk all day about the cold, but it wasn't just the cold.
• 19:33
  Vivian: Um, it's just the way it was run.
• 19:36
  Vivian: Uh it was just girls, like young girls.
• 19:39
  Vivian: Like I was 21, but I still think I was I felt pretty young at that time.
• 19:45
  Vivian: Um and it was with the barn manager being she's been there a while, and like I said, the three main girls that worked there were they they were used to the whole thing.
• 19:56
  Vivian: Um so it was hard at first because I was learning the ropes and uh they were pretty uh rude to me and not very nice to me, but over over time.
• 20:08
  Vivian: I mean, you kind of get that with any kind of place you work at, but uh over time it got better.
• 20:14
  Vivian: But yes.
• 20:16
  Vivian: There was drama.
• 20:18
  Isabeau: There was drama.
• 20:19
  Isabeau: So was this with horse handling or with with people or people, yeah.
• 20:24
  Isabeau: With people, yeah.
• 20:26
  Vivian: Yeah, like the like there was only one laundry machine.
• 20:30
  Vivian: Um boy.
• 20:31
  Vivian: It it was like not in the area that we lived in, but it was in I think it was up, was Mama, was it in the top of a barn?
• 20:39
  Vivian: Was it in the barn?
• 20:42
  Emma: Or like their house or something upstairs.
• 20:47
  Vivian: Yeah, so you like rarely could do like I could only do laundry once a week, which my laundry was disgusting.
• 20:53
  Vivian: All of our laundry was disgusting because we're like we're in the pits.
• 20:57
  Vivian: But um, but I did my laundry and the barn manager came up and I didn't have time to take it out of the dryer.
• 21:05
  Vivian: She took all my clothes out of the dryer and just plopped it on top of it, and then did her laundry and left my laundry soaking wet on top, and I only got to do it once a week, and I was just like, oh my god, like now I have no clothes, it's all sopping wet.
• 21:20
  Vivian: Like you could have put it in the dryer, but yeah, I mean, that's that's a little thing, but it was a really big thing for me because it just showed like she did not care about me.
• 21:32
  Isabeau: I swear, this must be one of the things that we do.
• 21:34
  Isabeau: I had worked at a farm for a couple months that I couldn't handle because the people were just just so obnoxious.
• 21:39
  Isabeau: And one of the things the manager would would do is try to get me to do her laundry.
• 21:45
  Isabeau: She would text me on my day off and ask me to put her laundry in and take her laundry out.
• 21:51
  Isabeau: It'd be my day off, and she'd be texting me to do her laundry.
• 21:54
  Isabeau: One of these little petty, pathetic tier things that folks like to do.
• 21:58
  Isabeau: Making your laundry.
• 21:59
  Isabeau: Soaking wet in winter is really sick though.
• 22:02
  Isabeau: That's that's that's really that's really twisted.
• 22:06
  Isabeau: Yeah.
• 22:06
  Isabeau: How many horses did they have there when you were working?
• 22:10
  Isabeau: Do you know?
• 22:12
  Isabeau: It had to I'm thinking it was like over, it was definitely over a hundred something.
• 22:20
  Isabeau: I yeah, something tells me it was 200, but I don't know.
• 22:24
  Isabeau: I don't I feel like that's me being exaggerative, but I'm that's what I think it was.
• 22:29
  Isabeau: But I might be exaggerating.
• 22:32
  unknown: Yes.
• 22:32
  Isabeau: And were they doing any shows in the winter?
• 22:35
  Isabeau: They must not have been doing in any of those performances or they did, really.
• 22:40
  Vivian: Wow.
• 22:40
  Vivian: We went to we went to the Equine affair together.
• 22:43
  Isabeau: I remember that.
• 22:44
  Isabeau: We went there, okay, but they didn't actually weren't bringing people onto the farm to do stuff.
• 22:50
  Isabeau: Yeah, no.
• 22:51
  Vivian: No, there were people, they did come and they did a sleigh ride, and the horses were really.
• 22:55
  Isabeau: Yeah, that's right.
• 22:56
  Isabeau: That's this is was Anna's one of Anna's main stories was the uh sleigh ride of uh death, yes.
• 23:02
  Isabeau: Yeah, I heard it's not Anna Emma, sorry, Emma.
• 23:06
  Isabeau: I'm saying Anna.
• 23:06
  Isabeau: One of Emma's stories was the sleigh ride of Doom, of Doom there.
• 23:10
  Isabeau: So they were bringing people there in the woods.
• 23:13
  Isabeau: Was this something that happened common?
• 23:14
  Isabeau: Was this like what weekly or just it was no?
• 23:18
  Vivian: It was like rare, like like just because when they did the sleigh rides, the horses were like sopping wet, and like they rarely got to do that.
• 23:28
  Vivian: So that was another part of it.
• 23:29
  Vivian: You're like, oh my gosh, like they're gonna die after that long.
• 23:33
  Vivian: He just it was crazy.
• 23:36
  Vivian: I went on the sleigh ride.
• 23:37
  Vivian: Emma, you were on this were you on the sleigh ride?
• 23:40
  Emma: He took me one time, he assumed I knew how to do all the stuff, and I didn't.
• 23:44
  Emma: He gave me the horses at one point, like the rain.
• 23:48
  Emma: But at first it was like really bad weather.
• 23:50
  Emma: We shouldn't have been out.
• 23:51
  Emma: I thought it was like negative, it was 10 degrees or something.
• 23:56
  Emma: Very cold.
• 23:57
  Emma: But anyway, he had me leading them and trying to get them over this little like brook, and they wouldn't go, but then they suddenly went, and he didn't like I just jumped out of the way of the sleigh and got soaking wet up to like my waist almost.
• 24:10
  Emma: And he wanted the people in the sleigh were like, let's go back.
• 24:14
  Emma: She looked like this is bad, and he was like, No, so we did the whole running around the field thing, and when I got back, I couldn't get my boots off, and then I got yelled at for like going in the house to like deal with that.
• 24:32
  Vivian: They treated you so badly.
• 24:35
  Isabeau: Well, no, you know what's really impressive.
• 24:37
  Isabeau: This is one of the things that uh we should put up a list of uh of warning signs here and stuff.
• 24:42
  Isabeau: This is one of the things that these people do that I've had happen to me a number of times, is they will put you in dangerous situations immediately.
• 24:50
  Isabeau: I had somebody once, you know, she was gonna test me out.
• 24:54
  Isabeau: We were gonna go out on a trail ride, and she put me on this horse.
• 24:57
  Isabeau: The horse got more and more nervous the closer we got to the edge of the property line.
• 25:03
  Isabeau: And as soon as we departed from the property fencing, the horse had a complete stroke.
• 25:07
  Isabeau: And we completed on the rest of the trail ride with this horse, like just freaking out.
• 25:12
  Isabeau: Another time I had a guy say, Well, I want to see you handle a young horse.
• 25:16
  Isabeau: So we took like a weanling, he and I, and we're walking together from point A to point B, and he stops and he says, I gotta go do something for a second.
• 25:25
  Isabeau: And he leaves me standing out in this field with this wienling screaming its head off, plunging and rearing and freaking out because it's away from its mother and away from its friends.
• 25:35
  Isabeau: And he just disappeared, leaves me there holding this thing.
• 25:37
  Isabeau: I have more real entertaining stories.
• 25:39
  Isabeau: But that was definitely one of the danger signs of what these folks do.
• 25:43
  Isabeau: They will put you in a risky situation.
• 25:46
  Isabeau: Oh, well, I didn't know you didn't know how to do this or do that or jump a horse with draw reins.
• 25:52
  Isabeau: Uh, everybody I know learns how to jump a horse with draw reins when they're 10.
• 25:56
  Isabeau: You know, like they'll just they will put you in a dangerous situation, like it's one of their one of their tricks.
• 26:03
  Isabeau: So that's definitely one of the big warning signs that you're in a bad thing.
• 26:06
  Isabeau: Because they will do it and they will usually do it pretty fast.
• 26:10
  Vivian: Mm-hmm.
• 26:10
  Vivian: Yep.
• 26:11
  Vivian: Yep.
• 26:11
  Vivian: We we were one time we were leading three-year-old horses in the snow, which you it Emma brought up leading horses in the snow.
• 26:19
  Vivian: Like it's especially the young ones, they're like freak they're being young and freaking out.
• 26:24
  Vivian: I had one, um, and they're not used to being led either.
• 26:28
  Vivian: This is these were the back pasture horses.
• 26:30
  Vivian: So they just chill in that back pasture all day.
• 26:34
  Vivian: They don't get any people dealing with them other than feeding them.
• 26:37
  Vivian: So we were leading them and it bolted, and I slipped and it kicked me um it was a side um in my cheek.
• 26:47
  Vivian: And so I fell back, I was like in the snow, and it chipped my tooth.
• 26:52
  Vivian: Luckily, I I didn't have any other problems, but my back tooth was chipped.
• 26:56
  Vivian: And owner's uh reaction to it was that it was my fault, and that we all needed to have a lesson on how to lead a horse.
• 27:05
  Vivian: So basically, he like shamed me in front of everybody and made me feel like I was the reason I got kicked in the face, which isn't true at all.
• 27:15
  Isabeau: Big red flag.
• 27:15
  Isabeau: And it's funny how you said that uh he said you were such a great writer.
• 27:19
  Isabeau: I had somebody once to tell me, she's like, I think I can make you a Grand Prix rider in three years, you know.
• 27:25
  Isabeau: And this crazy chick, as soon as she hired me, then immediately disappeared for two weeks and we didn't see her.
• 27:31
  Isabeau: And she was like, Oh, well, I had some personal things to deal with.
• 27:35
  Isabeau: Do you want to tell us you're disappearing from the barn?
• 27:37
  Isabeau: She left me and this other girl in her barn with all her clients' horses, her sale horses, she disappeared and she was gone, and we didn't see her for two weeks.
• 27:46
  Isabeau: Crazy bitch.
• 27:49
  Isabeau: But back to the perfidian form.
• 27:54
  Isabeau: So were you thinking from the very beginning that you were gonna leave be leaving soon, or did it take a while for you to get up to a certain a certain incident where you really decided it was time to go?
• 28:04
  Vivian: Yeah, like I feel like if I did so it was during Christmas time.
• 28:09
  Vivian: It was like right after Christmas.
• 28:11
  Vivian: Um my ex was visiting and we we rented one of the houses there to stay in because we had to they they made us pay for it.
• 28:21
  Isabeau: Oh you're paying them too.
• 28:22
  Vivian: Awesome.
• 28:22
  Vivian: No, this was this was for the apart they had like a little apartment thing, yes, then we had to pay for.
• 28:29
  Vivian: But uh, so my ex was staying there, and so it kind of gave me more of an out because I was able to have a car there and pick me up.
• 28:37
  Vivian: So I actually uh was I was so over it.
• 28:41
  Vivian: This was like so cold, it was so cold, and that same night I had accidentally froze a hose, and I just knew I was gonna hear it, and I knew what what that meant.
• 28:52
  Vivian: Like they would have to take like a heat gun or something and heat it up, and I was like, I don't want to deal with that.
• 28:58
  Vivian: I don't want to deal with getting chewed out and all that, which granted, it was so easy to freeze a pipe there.
• 29:04
  Vivian: Like it was so like even if you weren't negligent, but George, yes, yes.
• 29:10
  Vivian: Uh so I ended up packing all my things.
• 29:14
  Vivian: I ex called my ex.
• 29:15
  Vivian: I was like, I'm or I told my ex, I'm going to leave tonight.
• 29:18
  Vivian: We're gonna get out of here.
• 29:20
  Vivian: And so I packed all my things late at night, and I think I had an alarm for like 4 a.m.
• 29:25
  Vivian: and I snuck out, and he I got in the car, turned on his vehicle, and we just left.
• 29:33
  Vivian: Oh wow.
• 29:34
  Vivian: Oh wow.
• 29:35
  Isabeau: And Julia is just gone.
• 29:36
  Isabeau: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:37
  Isabeau: Were were you getting paid anything during the time that you were working there, or are you literally just working there for housing and experience?
• 29:44
  Vivian: No, we had a stipend of $100, I think, weekly.
• 29:48
  Vivian: I'm pretty sure it was $100 a week.
• 29:50
  Isabeau: Okay.
• 29:51
  Vivian: Yeah.
• 29:51
  Vivian: And sometimes we didn't get paid on time.
• 29:54
  Vivian: Like we had to like go and ask for it.
• 29:57
  Isabeau: Yeah.
• 29:58
  Vivian: Yeah.
• 29:59
  Isabeau: Um, and have you talked to, were there any or when you were there, were there any interns who were there who were happy with how things were going?
• 30:06
  Isabeau: I mean, sometimes they'll be like the top rider who rides all the FEI level horses, and that person doesn't care because they're getting to ride all the fancy horses.
• 30:15
  Isabeau: Is there any anybody who was working there who was an intern who was happy with what was going on?
• 30:20
  Vivian: Were they I don't think so.
• 30:21
  Vivian: No, even the trainer was which I loved the trainer at the time.
• 30:25
  Vivian: Um she she lived with us too, and she uh even she wasn't having a good time.
• 30:32
  Vivian: Like she she realized that the gig was was not what she was expecting it to be.
• 30:38
  Isabeau: Yes, yes.
• 30:39
  Isabeau: And how long had she been there when you were there?
• 30:43
  Vivian: I think she got there around the time that I started working there, actually.
• 30:46
  Isabeau: Oh, geez, so she was very new too.
• 30:48
  Isabeau: Okay.
• 30:48
  Isabeau: And did she stay there for much longer after you're gone?
• 30:52
  Isabeau: Do you have any idea?
• 30:54
  Vivian: No, she left pretty quickly after I left.
• 30:58
  Isabeau: Yes, yeah.
• 30:59
  Isabeau: Oh boy.
• 31:01
  Isabeau: Um, so the only person who had stayed there for a few years was does anybody know when the barn manager left?
• 31:08
  Isabeau: How long that that person was there who was actually running running the whole job?
• 31:13
  Vivian: No, no, I didn't keep up with um with that.
• 31:16
  Vivian: Yeah.
• 31:17
  Isabeau: And anybody you wanted to leave and never come back.
• 31:21
  Vivian: Yeah, exactly.
• 31:22
  Vivian: But it it did make me stronger, like every job after has been fine.
• 31:30
  Isabeau: So did you continue on in the horse industry?
• 31:33
  Vivian: Yeah, I'm not not currently working um because I'm in California and there's really not any equine jobs available here, at least in my area.
• 31:42
  Vivian: Uh, but I did uh work at several barns after that.
• 31:46
  Vivian: I worked in Colorado and New Jersey.
• 31:48
  Isabeau: Um oh, I spent a long time in New Jersey.
• 31:51
  Isabeau: Where did you work in New Jersey?
• 31:54
  Vivian: Um so it was Round Valley, and I think it was um it was also in Elizabeth.
• 32:02
  Vivian: It was near Elizabethtown, I believe.
• 32:04
  Vivian: Um I did a uh horse um, it was uh another sleigh, sleigh people, and they are um they did uh what's it called?
• 32:15
  Vivian: Uh car they did like um events.
• 32:17
  Vivian: So they had uh combined driving?
• 32:20
  Vivian: Yeah, driving, yes.
• 32:22
  Isabeau: Oh, okay.
• 32:23
  Vivian: All right, yeah, all right.
• 32:24
  Vivian: Which is fun.
• 32:25
  Isabeau: Which is fun, yes.
• 32:26
  Isabeau: No, combined driving is interesting.
• 32:27
  Isabeau: I did a combined driving job when I was younger in my uh twenties, and I was living in North Salem, New York.
• 32:34
  Isabeau: So did you ever did you ever go to the Round Valley Reservoir if you were in New Jersey?
• 32:38
  Isabeau: And around.
• 32:39
  Isabeau: Okay, yes.
• 32:41
  Isabeau: I've I've ridden there, but Round Valley Reservoir is a really cool area.
• 32:44
  Isabeau: That's actually a town that they flood flooded.
• 32:47
  Isabeau: Yeah, it's a really nice uh park there.
• 32:49
  Isabeau: You can take the horses there off season.
• 32:51
  Isabeau: It's very steep and very, very rocky.
• 32:54
  Isabeau: Yep.
• 32:55
  Vivian: Yeah, yeah, it's it's it was interesting.
• 32:57
  Vivian: I remember riding the trail.
• 33:00
  Vivian: Um, I'm I'm really into like um insects and stuff, and they I didn't realize in New Jersey they actually have like stick insects.
• 33:06
  Vivian: Yes.
• 33:07
  Vivian: Um it was so cool.
• 33:08
  Vivian: I was like, what is that?
• 33:10
  Isabeau: Um there's lots of fun stuff in New Jersey.
• 33:12
  Isabeau: You didn't work if you were in Round Valley, you didn't work at the Rocky Mountain place.
• 33:16
  Isabeau: Did you do the Rocky Mountain breeder?
• 33:18
  Isabeau: Oh, you did.
• 33:19
  Isabeau: You worked for the Rocky Mountain breeder there.
• 33:21
  Isabeau: Okay, yes.
• 33:21
  Isabeau: I had been up to her place a few times.
• 33:23
  Isabeau: She's literally right on top, she's literally right on the side of the damn mountain there.
• 33:28
  Isabeau: Yeah, which is which which is Steve.
• 33:32
  Isabeau: Um yeah, no, that's the Rocky Mountain.
• 33:35
  Isabeau: Did you work for her for a while?
• 33:39
  Vivian: No, because she was actually pretty far away from um where I lived.
• 33:43
  Vivian: I lived in Edison.
• 33:44
  Vivian: Oh, okay.
• 33:45
  Isabeau: That is far, yes.
• 33:47
  Vivian: But I had to drive to get to the horse job, so I did what I could.
• 33:52
  Isabeau: Yes, yes.
• 33:52
  Isabeau: Oh, all right.
• 33:53
  Isabeau: So you were working there, but you were living in Edison at the time.
• 33:57
  Isabeau: Yes, that was a hall.
• 33:58
  Isabeau: And Edison is near uh just outside of uh Trenton, I think, right?
• 34:03
  Vivian: I think so, yeah.
• 34:04
  Isabeau: Yep.
• 34:04
  Isabeau: Yes, yes.
• 34:05
  Isabeau: Oh, all right, cool.
• 34:06
  Isabeau: Uh how long did uh did uh that job last for?
• 34:10
  Vivian: Um that one was probably just a couple months.
• 34:13
  Vivian: Honestly, um I I was living with my ex and his mother at the time, so I really wanted to get out of New Jersey.
• 34:20
  Vivian: So when I moved to Colorado and I started working at um the Academy riding stables where they ride through the Garden of the Gods in um in Colorado Springs.
• 34:33
  Vivian: Um gotcha.
• 34:34
  Vivian: Yeah.
• 34:35
  Vivian: And I really liked that job too.
• 34:37
  Isabeau: It's very funny.
• 34:37
  Isabeau: Gotcha.
• 34:38
  Isabeau: Rarely does do things get as bad as it gets with the Frisian and Majesty situation where horses are really genuinely being neglected and not sufficiently cared, cared for and and and stuff.
• 34:49
  Isabeau: I haven't been able to find any solid information.
• 34:53
  Isabeau: I had heard her to rumor that all the horses are actually off of the property now.
• 34:57
  Isabeau: Because there was still, even after the last seizure, there was like 38 or 40 horses left or something.
• 35:04
  Isabeau: So something.
• 35:05
  Vivian: But isn't that the property?
• 35:07
  Vivian: Isn't it sold?
• 35:08
  Vivian: Or am I wrong?
• 35:09
  Isabeau: I think um I don't know.
• 35:11
  Isabeau: I've been having a hard time getting a concrete answer to that.
• 35:14
  Isabeau: There was a a rumor that the horses were gone and it was leased out to somebody else.
• 35:19
  Isabeau: But um, I haven't been able to find like any newspaper articles or anything.
• 35:24
  Isabeau: Uh run into people online when I have asked about this who said, Oh, yeah, they went, you know, to see a show and it was just magical.
• 35:32
  Isabeau: So he definitely did make an impression on the people who don't know anything about horses and just showed up to see the uh the uh the shows.
• 35:40
  Isabeau: The beautiful stallions and mares.
• 35:43
  Isabeau: The beautiful stallions.
• 35:45
  Isabeau: How many horses did they bring to the Equine affair when you were there?
• 35:50
  Vivian: Um, I believe, so I think we brought a young one and his mom.
• 35:55
  Isabeau: Uh okay, so just just like two.
• 35:57
  Isabeau: You didn't bring ten.
• 35:59
  Vivian: No, I believe we brought the stallion, one of the stallions too.
• 36:03
  Vivian: No, it wasn't a whole bunch of them.
• 36:05
  Isabeau: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:06
  Isabeau: So and then what I had recalled when there was first when I first read something about that place, I think on the Chronicle of the Horse discussion boards.
• 36:12
  Isabeau: I don't even want to try to think about how many years ago that was now.
• 36:15
  Isabeau: Uh the accusation at that time was that he was sexually harassing people, like in the breeding lab, rubbing himself up against people doing stuff like did anything like that was that going on, or you don't know?
• 36:29
  Vivian: So I heard rumors about um just uh things like he I heard rumors about cameras.
• 36:36
  Vivian: I heard rumors about um yeah, like him like sexually harassing people, but I never experienced anything like that.
• 36:44
  Vivian: We just we're kind of like the girls were like, don't talk about it.
• 36:47
  Vivian: Like, don't talk about it.
• 36:48
  Isabeau: Don't talk about it.
• 36:49
  Isabeau: Oh Jesus, yeah.
• 36:50
  Vivian: Yeah, like like just don't even mention anything.
• 36:52
  Vivian: Like we're not allowed to say anything.
• 36:54
  Vivian: And it's like, oh like this is not what we should talk about, like if this is happening.
• 37:01
  Isabeau: Yes.
• 37:02
  Isabeau: Well, I mean, that's that's definitely safe sport is only catching up on stuff.
• 37:06
  Isabeau: Now this was so this wouldn't even have fallen into a safe sport thing.
• 37:10
  Isabeau: He was it was he showing any of these animals at at recognized shows, or he was just all doing his own thing.
• 37:16
  Vivian: Yeah, I think he was I think he was showing I did he I think he showed at Equine Affair.
• 37:22
  Isabeau: I'm pretty sure he did.
• 37:23
  Isabeau: All right, so that's not a USEF recognized show there.
• 37:26
  Isabeau: There wasn't any voices going in in USEF shows.
• 37:29
  Isabeau: Okay, yeah.
• 37:29
  Isabeau: I don't think so.
• 37:30
  Isabeau: I don't think so.
• 37:30
  Isabeau: No, all right.
• 37:31
  Isabeau: So it what he wasn't doing anything that would have even fallen under an oversight body.
• 37:38
  Isabeau: Um you know, they're they're coming out and prosecuting a lot of people for safe sport violations right now.
• 37:46
  Isabeau: And a lot of this stuff is stuff that happened a decade ago.
• 37:50
  Isabeau: Um all right, so yeah, he was he he was there.
• 37:53
  Isabeau: So no no nobody, when you were there, nobody was putting horses on the truck and taking them to like GMHA.
• 37:59
  Isabeau: Were you far from there?
• 38:01
  Isabeau: Is that place far from the Green Mountain Horse Association showground?
• 38:05
  Vivian: I'm not aware.
• 38:06
  Vivian: Uh I don't I'm not aware now.
• 38:09
  Emma: I had no idea.
• 38:10
  Emma: And when I got there, they weren't showing it all, and they showed me like the Equan Affair stuff, and we're like, we're and other than that, they did like the breeding qualifications or they had to mark done.
• 38:23
  Vivian: Like the names, and they did all the names and the yeah, like yeah.
• 38:27
  Isabeau: The currents and stuff.
• 38:28
  Isabeau: So did the Frisian current stuff and then just went to the Equan Affair, but they weren't going to USCF horse shows at all.
• 38:36
  Isabeau: No.
• 38:37
  Isabeau: All right.
• 38:38
  Isabeau: All right, cool.
• 38:39
  Isabeau: Is there anything else you want to talk about about your time there or anything?
• 38:44
  Isabeau: So we've identified the one the one warning sign is people putting you in physical danger.
• 38:49
  Isabeau: And they very often I found them to do it in pretty short order.
• 38:53
  Isabeau: Um, any other red flags that you could pass on to people who are young enthusiastic people who were uh looking at uh internship positions?
• 39:03
  Vivian: Um I I think just just um the isolation aspect of it was that wasn't cool for me.
• 39:13
  Vivian: Um but yeah, if something's too good to be true, it usually is, especially like the way he talked to me about like my video, like how he was so like amazed at how I wrote.
• 39:26
  Vivian: I sh I mean I was young and my par my parents were like really into it, like they're they wanted me to get out and and get out there.
• 39:33
  Vivian: Um but yeah.
• 39:36
  Vivian: I was trying to think of what I could say like to help younger people, but uh one of the main things I was thinking about is like I should have like I guess I should have like said something to like some uh like like the Dorset equine or something like that, like said like reported or something about the back lot, but it wasn't as bad.
• 39:58
  Vivian: It I mean the horses weren't skinny like that.
• 40:00
  Vivian: If I saw that, I would have been like like that.
• 40:04
  Emma: But you almost like later and they were still not anything the ASPCA would write home about, you know.
• 40:12
  Vivian: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:13
  Emma: Yep.
• 40:15
  Vivian: Yeah, so I guess a lot a lot of it is for parents too.
• 40:18
  Vivian: Like if your kid's going off, you you should like really like research the place too.
• 40:23
  Vivian: And but a lot of the time a lot of the stuff I looked up, I did research it before I went there, and a lot of the stuff was good, like positive, like people visiting the place and seeing it, which I think like you said is a lot of the people probably were fanatics of Frisians, like they liked the way the horse looked and it was beautiful, like, or they didn't really understand like the actual like um like uh industry or uh weren't really in on it, like um yeah.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: So they they didn't question like I didn't post it, but yeah.
• 41:00
  Emma: A few tours, right?
• 41:01
  Emma: And I felt like it was very two-faced, like the way he and the manager would talk to us versus tourists essentially.
• 41:10
  Emma: They had these great experiences, they got these riding lessons and like I don't know.
• 41:17
  Isabeau: So he really shifted gears when there was public uh around and he spoke in a different manner, and then when he was just you guys, it was a a different deal.
• 41:26
  Vivian: Yeah, yeah, we were just like the I don't know.
• 41:30
  Vivian: It was almost like we were like uh I don't like slaves.
• 41:36
  Isabeau: Yeah, I mean if you have this feeling of that you're really super nauseous in the pit of your stomach and you wanna you wanna throw up, the job situation is probably not good.
• 41:45
  Isabeau: Right, Emma, do you have any other questions or anything else you wanted to chat about?
• 41:50
  Emma: Um I know there was like a follow-up article, so I'll try to find that.
• 41:54
  Emma: Emma, how many people were sharing the housing when you were there?
• 41:58
  Emma: When I was there, there was one of the instructors lived upstairs, and then a student who was paying to be there.
• 42:09
  Emma: Like she was an intern with us, but she didn't work as much, and she got she paid to be there, so she got a room in between that shared bathroom that we all used to bathe.
• 42:21
  Emma: And I think that somewhere up there is what she's talking about, there being laundry, and then downstairs there's like a very small living room, it's like a trailer attached to the rest of the house.
• 42:33
  Isabeau: Oh boy.
• 42:34
  Emma: Um and then there was like a st a stove, a fridge, not much counter space, and a few cabinets, and then a living room, and then a room that was the size of maybe a large bedroom, and there was six or eight beds with sheets between them.
• 42:53
  Emma: And when I was there, there were five of us, and then when when one girl came, I like she left and I had her pick me up because she lived around there, and so then they were back with the three interns again, and they were always talking about that, and they said that you know, a few years before or something, everyone had quit, and at the time they had two instructors, a man and a woman who like had traveled and done dressage stuff, and they worked there, they were unhappy.
• 43:26
  Emma: Um there was a girl who came when I was there who like she lived there, so she was able to check it out with her parents, and she was like underage, so she spent maybe a week there and was like, I'm out, and so I ended up calling her and she got me out of there because they wouldn't take me um to the airport.
• 43:44
  Emma: He said vaguely it would be a week or so when he could take me or something.
• 43:49
  Emma: So yeah, I left and I don't know.
• 43:55
  Isabeau: That is crazy.
• 43:56
  Isabeau: Were they running your your standard like after school and Weekend kids lesson program there?
• 44:02
  Vivian: Was there like summer camp and I don't I didn't know I was in winter.
• 44:06
  Vivian: I I don't know.
• 44:07
  Vivian: Yeah, I I feel like that would be in summer, but I don't think they did.
• 44:12
  Isabeau: Gotcha.
• 44:12
  Isabeau: Alright.
• 44:13
  Isabeau: Okay, cool.
• 44:15
  Emma: Yeah.
• 44:16
  unknown: Yeah.
• 44:17
  Emma: I had one person come for a lesson, and they, you know, gave her the bestest horse, and the owner came.
• 44:25
  Emma: It was just, you know, oh big to-do about it.
• 44:29
  Emma: And I remember being annoyed that I had ridden like once.
• 44:33
  Isabeau: Uh-huh.
• 44:33
  Isabeau: Yes, yes.
• 44:36
  Vivian: Yeah, and we were the riding was like exercising too.
• 44:40
  Vivian: Like they were like, oh, we need to ride these horses.
• 44:42
  Vivian: Like it was like a job.
• 44:43
  Vivian: And I was like, that's not what I came here for.
• 44:46
  Isabeau: That's not what I came for here.
• 44:47
  Isabeau: So they had you just put putting miles on horses, on legging up horses that were uh trained already.
• 44:53
  Vivian: Yeah, exactly.
• 44:54
  Vivian: Yep.
• 44:55
  Isabeau: Yep.
• 44:55
  Isabeau: Okay, gotcha.
• 44:56
  Isabeau: So what what did you what did you actually tell him your goals were when you went to the job?
• 45:01
  Isabeau: You went and got this in in internship, and what did he say he was going to be able to do for you?
• 45:07
  Vivian: He told me I was gonna learn like how to ride the Frisians and learn dressage.
• 45:12
  Vivian: And um he wanted me to learn the um I I wanted to learn specifically like the um the embryo um stuff and the uh bleeding aspect of it.
• 45:26
  Vivian: Um but yeah, that didn't that didn't happen.
• 45:30
  Isabeau: That didn't happen, okay.
• 45:31
  Isabeau: All right, yeah, you never so you never got in any time in in the lab.
• 45:35
  Isabeau: Well were they actively were they collecting stallions there or were they doing live cover, or do you have you you don't know with their uh their actual breeding?
• 45:44
  Vivian: Oh no, they were collecting, yeah.
• 45:45
  Vivian: They had uh they had um dummy or the phantom, that's what they called it.
• 45:49
  Isabeau: Yeah, so they they're collecting, were they shipping out to other other people?
• 45:53
  Isabeau: They were collecting and shipping to other people, or they were just breeding all mares on their own farm.
• 45:58
  Vivian: Yeah, I don't know about that.
• 45:59
  Vivian: I know they were breeding the horses on their farm, though.
• 46:02
  Isabeau: Yeah.
• 46:03
  Vivian: Yeah.
• 46:03
  Isabeau: Yeah, geez.
• 46:04
  Isabeau: No, I wonder how how many horses he had there total over the year.
• 46:07
  Isabeau: If he was breeding and he had up to 200 at one point, he must have bred at least a couple, haha, and a hundred.
• 46:14
  Vivian: Yeah, there were so many babies at one time when we were there, like so like in a little like a a st like a fence, like there are babies all over the place in this one fence.
• 46:25
  Vivian: It was just like, oh my gosh, like it's crazy how many babies they had at the time when I was there.
• 46:32
  Isabeau: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 46:33
  Isabeau: Did they did they get them sold?
• 46:34
  Isabeau: Did any of them leave while you were there?
• 46:37
  Isabeau: Did they get theoretically sold and shipped off?
• 46:39
  Isabeau: No, no.
• 46:40
  Vivian: I know there was uh uh one Frisian stallion that was like they're really important.
• 46:45
  Vivian: There's there's two main ones, but there was one other one, which was one of their main ones, and they were supposedly supposed to be training him, allegedly.
• 46:54
  Vivian: And I guess he wasn't being trained, but he was supposed to be being trained.
• 46:59
  Isabeau: Yeah.
• 46:59
  Isabeau: He was supposed to be trained, yes.
• 47:02
  Isabeau: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:04
  Isabeau: These were all all horses that the farm owner owned.
• 47:08
  Isabeau: He didn't have take-in outside training clients, right?
• 47:11
  Vivian: No, he did.
• 47:12
  Isabeau: They had um, oh geez, and these these were all free for Frisian horses, though.
• 47:18
  Isabeau: Or did they have a general boarding operation for just people in the air?
• 47:23
  Vivian: I'm pretty sure there's an there are only Frisians in the main barn.
• 47:26
  Vivian: Uh gotcha.
• 47:27
  Vivian: Yeah.
• 47:28
  Isabeau: So he probably sold some to people and then kept them in training when they were uh sold type of a thing.
• 47:35
  Isabeau: Yeah, yep.
• 47:36
  Isabeau: Interesting.
• 47:37
  Isabeau: Interesting.
• 47:39
  Vivian: Yeah, the trainer the trainer could not it's not even the trainer's fault.
• 47:44
  Vivian: She wouldn't have been able to keep up with the amount of horses there.
• 47:47
  Vivian: Oh yeah, no, no.
• 47:48
  Vivian: Not no way, no.
• 47:50
  Vivian: Like you'd be on a horse like all day, all night.
• 47:54
  Isabeau: Well, were they bringing any people in from other countries, either either from Europe or any of your your uh your uh very common undocumented Spanish speaking workers?
• 48:06
  Isabeau: Do they have any of those folks around or any anyone who came from the EU or anything?
• 48:12
  Vivian: Not for the interns, no, but the trainer was from um Europe.
• 48:16
  Vivian: And she had real she had trained before.
• 48:19
  Vivian: Like she was she was legit, but she was super.
• 48:21
  Vivian: I would love to talk to her.
• 48:23
  Vivian: She's very cool.
• 48:25
  Isabeau: I love her, but I don't that's cool.
• 48:26
  Isabeau: Do you have contact with her?
• 48:28
  Isabeau: I totally want to hear from her.
• 48:30
  Vivian: I'll check um I'll check my Facebook because I remember last time I saw that her um Facebook was removed, but she was damned because sometimes you can see like their name but not their profile.
• 48:41
  Vivian: But I'll see and I'll I know her name though.
• 48:44
  Vivian: I do know her name.
• 48:47
  Isabeau: No, it would be very interesting to talk to her, even if it wasn't for a podcast, just to get uh how how this place compared to other places that she had uh come from in Europe.
• 48:59
  Isabeau: So she had trained Frisians in Europe, she was from Holland, she was Dutch.
• 49:04
  Vivian: She trained um, I don't think it was Frisians, I'm pretty sure she trained um loose lusitanos.
• 49:11
  Vivian: I'm pretty sure.
• 49:12
  Vivian: Yeah, she had like formal formal training there.
• 49:15
  Vivian: Um yeah, yeah, she is it lusitanos or lip lip?
• 49:21
  Vivian: I think I'm mixing it up with lipazen, or yeah, I'm mixing them up.
• 49:24
  Vivian: Lipazen, how do you say that name?
• 49:26
  Vivian: Lipazanos?
• 49:27
  Vivian: Yes, lipazanos?
• 49:28
  Vivian: Yeah, that's what they were the ones that do the the in the air and they spring their their legs out like that.
• 49:34
  Emma: Yeah, yeah, that's it.
• 49:35
  Emma: Well, I heard from there was two trainers when I was there.
• 49:38
  Emma: One was the guy, one was the girl.
• 49:39
  Emma: I didn't know the lady, like she wasn't around when I was there, but the guy he said he came to work because she said to come and they used to like tour together doing something with lip is on her.
• 49:50
  Emma: So I wonder if that's the same people.
• 49:54
  Vivian: Maybe I have no idea what their name was blonde.
• 49:58
  Vivian: Um very nice, though.
• 50:00
  Vivian: I liked her.
• 50:01
  Vivian: Yeah, she was the sun in the light in the the darkness there.
• 50:06
  Isabeau: Yes, oh boy, yes.
• 50:08
  Isabeau: Um, so she was not happy, but you guys didn't have any specific conversation.
• 50:15
  Vivian: No, there wasn't really time to do that.
• 50:18
  Isabeau: Yes, yo, you were pretty much overwhelmed all the time, yeah.
• 50:22
  Vivian: And like I said, the culture was kind of weird.
• 50:24
  Vivian: Like it was like you don't talk about it, and if you do, you're in the case.
• 50:29
  Vivian: Yes, yeah.
• 50:31
  Isabeau: Yes, geez.
• 50:32
  Isabeau: Yeah, all right.
• 50:33
  Isabeau: And do you have do you know how long she was there before she uh she left?
• 50:37
  Isabeau: No.
• 50:38
  Isabeau: No, no.
• 50:39
  Isabeau: All right, all right.
• 50:40
  Isabeau: All right, all right, Emma, she'll have to be the next person that we have to try to attract now.
• 50:44
  Emma: Yeah, I'm on a mission, detective mission.
• 50:48
  Isabeau: Yes, yes.
• 50:49
  Isabeau: So I wonder if she works for a private, she didn't work for the temple lip and zons in the United and the United States.
• 50:56
  Isabeau: You're pretty sure she worked for the lippenzons over in Europe.
• 50:59
  Isabeau: Oh, okay.
• 51:00
  Isabeau: All right.
• 51:01
  Isabeau: All right, ladies.
• 51:03
  Isabeau: Well, I don't want to we don't want to keep you here for for forever, Vivian.
• 51:05
  Isabeau: It was so nice of you to agree to come to chat with us.
• 51:08
  Isabeau: We've been trying to find somebody who would want to come and share more information uh about their uh their wonderful adventures at the fringe farm in Vermont.
• 51:18
  Isabeau: Wonderful, yes.
• 51:19
  Isabeau: Is there any anything else you want to say before we uh let you go?
• 51:23
  Vivian: Or Emma Um It's nice to talk to you, Emma, and share it like it feels like a comrade camaraderie thing.
• 51:33
  Vivian: Like a hard through it.
• 51:36
  Isabeau: Yes, well, you guys have to start a secret former Fries of Majesty's employee Facebook page.
• 51:42
  Isabeau: That would be so cool.
• 51:44
  Isabeau: Start a page and invite you and you and Emma to it and see if we can get some other folks to uh show up there.
• 51:50
  Isabeau: That uh that might be a good way to track some of the folks down.
• 51:54
  Emma: Yep, yep, that's a great idea.
• 51:56
  Emma: I'm gonna email you my phone number and we should just keep in touch.
• 52:00
  Emma: Definitely.
• 52:00
  Emma: Um, and thank you so much for being willing to share your experience.
• 52:06
  Isabeau: Yes.
• 52:06
  Isabeau: Yes, thank you very much.
• 52:08
  Isabeau: We really appreciate it.
• 52:09
  Isabeau: And uh I know all the young enthusiastic folks are young and enthusiastic, but uh hope hopefully we'll uh encourage some of them to take a real close look before they commit to one of these uh things.
• 52:21
  Vivian: Yep, yep, exactly.
• 52:25
  Isabeau: All right, ladies.
• 52:25
  Isabeau: Nice talking to you.
• 52:26
  Isabeau: We'll we'll let you go.
• 52:28
  Isabeau: Have a have a nice day, guys.
• 52:29
  Isabeau: Bye.