Latest / UK Column Radio / China's Most Dangerous Dinner: The Hongmen Banquet Explained | Silk and Steel

Transcript

China's Most Dangerous Dinner: The Hongmen Banquet Explained | Silk and Steel · UK Column Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Silk and Steeled podcast
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Chinese History series, as we talk about Chinese history from
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: the deepest antiquity to what we optimistically hope will be
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: the present day. At present, we are at a period
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: where the Chin Dynasty, the first unified centralized empire, has
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: been or will rapidly be overthrown by the combined rebel armies,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: and we are now in a sort of intermediate stage
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: of relative peace kind where the contending leaders have not erupted,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: they have not erupted into open hostility.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Yet.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: I guess it's a bit like it's kind of fitting
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: because right now we are in our own days, in
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: our warring period, during the collapse of our own American
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: hegemonic empire. We are also in a law phase, not
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: because you know, the empire has fallen, but because the
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: empire is like short missiles for the moment, it seems,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: so there seems to be a low face as well
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: in our own days. The antiquity is always full of lessons.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Once again, I am deep Returning guests, JJ, and welcoming
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: is back is Carl from Vallei. He Carl, Hi, JJ,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: thanks for that lovely intro and thank you for always
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: relating back to the present day, but we must shift
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: the lens back to the ancient historical China in the
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: year two o seven. I keep on saying three o
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: seven in the past few episodes.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know why. But two winter of two o seven,
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: this is when Niubang marched his army into the chinhart Land,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: approaches a capital, and the last king of chins Lean,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: he wore a white dress, he tied himself, put a
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: rope around his neck, and you know, holds a surrender
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: ceremony outside the gate of the capital Hnyan, officially surrender
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: to the obangs Us, ending the Chin dynasty and the
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Chin state, which was funded more than five hundred years ago.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: And there are many questions, you know, many people have
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: asking the question about why the chain has fallen so
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: quickly right after he reaches its zenith. And the famous
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Tongue Dynasty poet Dude MoU has wrote about this and
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: he according to him, he said, you know, it's not
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: the Chin that vanquished the six states and unified under heaven.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: The six states that destroyed themselves. And similarly, Chin was
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: not vanquished by the other funeral lords or the rebels,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Chin vanquished itself. If the Six States elite had loved
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: their people, they could have banded together and easily resisted
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: the Chin aggression. And similarly, if after the Chin state
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: had unified all under heaven, if they have loved the
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: people of the Six States as they would have loved
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: their own, you know, they could have easily continued to
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: rule Chin. The line of the Chin import could last
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: to ten thousand generations, as the first Import has originally envisioned.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: But because they didn't do that, the Chin you know,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: the Chin import ended line ended after the second impert.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: And so his conclusion is that because Chin did not
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: practice benevolence, This is like a very confusion concept. You know,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: they because they didn't didn't win the support of the people.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: I think there's something to say about that, because you know,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: towards the end of Ching dynasty, they basically lost support
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: from all sigments of the society. Well, I mean, they
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: never had the support of the former Six States aristocracy anyway,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: but they also managed to alienate uh the common grassroots
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: grassroots commoner you know, like like associates of the Obang,
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: you know, most of the Obank's followers. They all come
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: from like, you know, very humble background. His uh, his
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: follower fund Kwai was a butcher, so bull was was
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: a weaver of straw. Matt Uh shaho Ying was a
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: driver for for the you know, the local county magistrate.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: And there are all of them, you know, yet all
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: and of course there's also Tension and Wogan Tens and
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: you know came Frond even more humble background as a
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: tendant farmer. All these people wanted to overthrow the Chain
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: dynasty because, uh, you know, at this point, state of
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Changes managed to alienate all sigment of society, you know,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: by excessive of uh demand on like for corve labor
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: and you know, all these grand deals projects building a
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: great wall, uh sending hundreds of thousands of people to
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: conquer the north to the south, and hundreds of thousands
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: of labor to build the first imperson mausoleum, uh the
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: famous upon palace. So it's just, uh, you know, people
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: are pushing to the brink. Then you know that they
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: had no no, no recourse but to rebel. Now. Once
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Yubung managed to enter the capital and accept the surrender,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: his followers suggested they execute the last king of Chins
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: lean to, you know, to set an example.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: As all, he has already given up the title emperor, right,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: he's just finishing now.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well that was a plan, because said, well, the
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Chin already lost the empire. There's no point to pretend
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: where the you know, we're still ruling over a unified empire. Well,
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: let's just revert back to the title of king, because
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: you know we still hold the Chin heartland. Or that
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: didn't last long, you know, it's id was killed and
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Len launched the coup to seize power, but the only
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: rule for forty six days before Nubuang's army arrived at
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: the front gate of Hianyang, and Yubuan refused to execute
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Zin because he said, Look, the reason I was chosen
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: to let this expedition into the Chin harland to overthrow
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: the Qin dynasty is because King of Chu trusted me.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: He said, I practiced benevolence, you know, because of my
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: benevolent nature, I would not alienate the subject of Chin.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: You know that that's what I intend to do now. Besides,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: you know Zing already surrendered. It's unlucky to kill the
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: prisoner of war have surrendered to you. And of course
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Nubang has other reasons.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: You know, he has butchered some city along the way, right,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: so it's I guess maybe, but you know, at the moment,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: but this last ching king, former king emperor has a
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: water beitching Emperor has more symbolic importance.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: Right, if he kills.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Him, it's a sign of the severe animosity towards the
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: whole like population of the Guandung region.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: Right, So it's.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, different, Yeah, I mean, but when Nubang started out,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: he massacred city just like shun We did. But he
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: switches tactic once he was approaching the Chin capital, you know,
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: during his conquest or nine Young Basin, the local retainer
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: of the Qin governor uh Hui, had come to approach.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: They'll bound to persuade, they will bound to accept the
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: surrender of the nan Young capital. And he said, you know,
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: like if you can set an example, if you right now,
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: if you intend to take the city the capital city
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: of Nanyang one one is a very strongly defendable city,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: and surrounding one, there's like fifteen other satellite city equally
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: uh forty five. Now, it's going to take you a
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: lot of time to reduce each city. One by one instead,
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: you can you can gain these cities without fighting if
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: you accept the surrender of the governor of Qin nan
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Young Commandery and then you grant him a title and land,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: and then that will set example for others to follow.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: They understand once it's surrendered to you, they will not
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: be massacred, but they will gain line and titles that
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: gave them incentive. So after that, Niubang has refrained from
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: massacring cities and he gained a lot of territory that way.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: And so this is this start. This is when his
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: approach start to branch off from that of Changi and
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: also Nupang. He always has this key keeping his mind
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: the King Whai's promise, the promise that whoever made into
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: the land of Chin and overthrew Chin dynasty will be
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: made the king of Chin. So he intended to rule
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: as the King of Chin. So he needed popular support.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: You know, the last thing he wanted to do is
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: alienate the population by executing their former king. Uh. You know,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: this is how stated Chin. As we mentioned how Qin
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: dynasty lost its power because they alienate all segment of so.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: So so the Obum immediately set out and said uh.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: And he set out to to lay down three rules.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: He said, you know, well, you guys have too many
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: freaking laws and rules. So all I'm gonna do is, uh,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna establish three rules you must follow. One
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: if you murder someone, you will pay with your life. Two,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: if you wounded someone, yeah you you will be. You
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: will be penalized. And if you rob somebody's property, yes
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: you will be. You'll be put in jail. So these
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: three rules, I asked you to stick to the other
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: laws and regulations abolished, completely abolished. So this is the
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: famous event. It's called ufa signs in the Chinese industry. Uh,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: you know, setting the three regulations. Now it's a Chinese medium.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Ufa signed to mean like setting down the rules, laying
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: down the ground rules. Right, but uh, this this gay
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: and and he also said, all the Chin officials get
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: to keep their posts, and all the people keep their
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: former position. You know, I'm here to rule over you.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: Uh you know, I I want you to continue your
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: life as before. So so this way, Nuban immediately gained
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of popular support. Uh. You know, it helped
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: to dissipate a lot of fear the people of Chin
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: had about being the rebel taking over. And then uh,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: you know, people start to send him a lot of
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: uh supplies, you know, with with cattle, sheep, you know, pigs,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: And Nubu said, no, no, no, you don't need to
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: do that. Our army are have plenty of supplies. I
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: don't need to bother you guys. You know you can
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: you get to keep all your property. Uh. And then
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: that made his popularity go grow even further, and everybody
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: year that Dubuan would not be king. Uh. But I
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: I like to point out, I mean a lot of
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: this sounds like Han dynasty propaganda.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: But uh, you know, obviously kind of it seems kind
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: of practical to have.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Let me finish, let me finish. But but but like
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: the common people, the common subsistence farmers, you know, it's
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: very unlikely they will take their farm animals and and
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: and and and and gifted to approaching army. But it's
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: more likely it's a local gentry. It's a powerful who
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: are now they're trying to curry favor who is a
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: new ruler, which the obum so they they are the
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: ones worse. It's not really common people, it's a it's
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: a it's a powerful note uh local notable. The prominent
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: family is probably coming up with all these gifts, trying
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: to curry favor with Dubump. But Dubunk again he was
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: able to buy their uh trust by saying no, no, no, no,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: we have plenty of food. We don't need this because
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: at this time up also he sees the granary. Right,
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: he already sees the Chin garnment. He have access to
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: all the imperial granary and all that, so he's not
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: actually worried about supplies, but go ahead, go ahead, and.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: His subordinates have been allowed to kind of loot the
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: palace and treasury.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Well, actually, okay, I'll get to that. I'll get to that.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: So so when they you know, everyone was very excited,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: you know, when they first entered the capitol, they went
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: to the palace, and so how luxuriously the Chin emperor
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: were living. And Nyupun himself wanted to indulge because the
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: last time he came here was as a lowly sheriff
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: of a local tongue, you know, like he was a
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: small tongue tariff. Come a sheriff coming in to send
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: the corve labor to work on the first impers mausoleum.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: That was the first time he came to Sena, and
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: that's the time when he witnessed the first imperson Entouragi,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: and he said, ah, a man should as fire if
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: he lived like that. Right, So now he's in possession
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: of the Chin Imperial Palace and Imperial Harem with all
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: the beautiful women. He tended to indulge himself. Right at
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: this point, one of his followers objected and his follower
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: is none other than fund Quite. So fun Quite was
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: a butcher, a local butcher in the town where dubang
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Uh grew up in the county of pay And and
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: he was one of the earlier follower of the Obang.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: And later when dubang Uh you know, raised a flack
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: of rebellion, fund Quite joined him. So not only he
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: was Dubum's follower, he's also the obam's like brother in
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: law because because the Obam's wife, it's like the the
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: the NBA's wife came from like a rich family. Right
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: when the when the when the Ubank's father in law
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: moving to pay County, they the father in law saw
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: something in Ubang so he decided to pair his unmarried
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: nineteen year old daughter to to to with Ubank as
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: his wife, and later when Uban raised a flag of
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: rebellion and called himself governor of Pey and fun Qui
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: became his loyal follower. Fun Quite married the younger sister
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: of Lubang's wife. How do you call that relationship in English?
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Is that still brother in law? Younger?
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: He married the younger sister of your wife? Yeah, I
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: mean he's he's the brothers in.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: Law of his wife. Yeah wait, yeah, yeah, which is
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: kind of weird.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he is, he's the brother in law of his wife.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: But is there also is he also the brother in
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: law of of Ubang? I don't know how how that's
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: not that's that's called in English, But in Chinese there's
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: a term for it. Uh you called the end son.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: That means you both married sisters. But anyway, so so
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: uh so, Fan Koi has been serving as Lubun's bodyguard
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: all throughout because he's a giant of a man and
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: a very incredulable powerful So right now, when he saw us,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: like Billbuan was intending to indulge himself in the in
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: the pleasure palace of the Chain Import, He's like, wait
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: a minute, wait a minute, lord pay. You know, this
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: is the title. You have to remember. This is the
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: reason the Chin dynasty fall. It's because the Chin imperor
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: indulged themselves with these such luxuries while everyone was still
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: suffering in misery. And this is why we rose up
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: in rebellion to overthrow this government. Now, what is your intention?
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Is your intention to live up as a rich man?
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Or is your intention to be the ruler of all
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: under heaven? Right? If you if you if your intention,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: if you have wider ambitions, you know you should renounce
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: these kind the pleasures. Uh, you know, turn turn your
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: back on this degenerate lifestyle. Uh. Now, Ubug hated this advice.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: It's like, now, you know, finally I get to I
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: get to live up a little bit. You know, who
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: are you to lecturing me?
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: He spends like uh, he's like fifty now, rights, so
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: he spent the whole life kind of deprived, right, and
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: from family that has fallen from like you know, nobility
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: status essentially.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: So yeah, Yubang. At the time when he accepts the
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: surrender of in Chinkapitol, he's almost fifty. So it's my age.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: That's why I keep on telling everyone never too late
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: it's never too late to start. There's still hope for me.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: So Soba Yuba wanted to, you know, indulge himself. But
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: now Zangiang, his other advisor, have come in, and he said, uh.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: He said, the yang Yao cuck hole so Yandi or
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: the yang Yao cuckle, you know, the the loyal advice.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: It's hard to listen to. And just like the bitter medicine,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: it's it's it's it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: but it's it's intended to cure your body. Right. This
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: is another famous Chinese idiom uh. And he said, you
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: should listen to funk Qui. You know, fun Kui is
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: doing this for your own good. Uh. And right now
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: we are uh, you know, right now we're trying to
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: set set the wrong of the Qin dynasty. You know,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: we can't try to rectify all the rungs of Qin dynasty.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: It's not it does not behooves you to fall into
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: the same pattern of the degenerated ching kings. And and
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Yuba takes some young more seriously, you know, compared to
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: his butcher brother in law Fan Kwi. So he he
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: listened to advice and he ordered people to put guards
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: around the Chimp Imperial path to protect to seal all
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: the the chain treasuries, make sure there's no looting. Right
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: restore order uh. And he pulled his army back from
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: the Chin capital to be to be en camped like
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: ten twenty kilometers away from the from the capitol, so
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: they're not bothering the people, the inhabitants of the capital.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Now at this time, there's another guy tells new about
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: He said, look, you're right now, you're very popular among
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: the people of Chin. And the land of Chin is
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: is ten times more fertile than the other lands. And
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: this is a result of the hydraulic works by hydraulic
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: engineer like Zunghul who built that famous Sun Gold canal
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: that spent that you know, you that the Chin States
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: spent fifteen years to build, which made the land of
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Chin increase very productive. He said, state of Chin is
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: very fertile, uh. And it's well protected on all four
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: sides by this four major passes. All you got to
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: do is seal that seal the mountain passes. You can
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: be the king, you know, and and and so right now,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: shang Uh and the other feudal lords. They they're leading
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: a large army coming this way. And I have heard
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: when Shangu accepted the surrender of Qin general Zanghan, he
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: had promised to make Zanghan the king of Yung, which
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: just happened to be the chi Yoi is just another
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: name for the Chin heartland. So it doesn't seem like Hiang.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: You intend to honor the promise of King of two,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: which says whoever enters the Chin heartland gets to be king.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Uh Sang seems Chiangu has other plans. So the best
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: course right now is to send your man to guard
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: the Hangu Pass. You know Huncle passes famously, the very
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: defendable pass. You know, to hold the past Nan shall
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Nan shall pass. Then you know you can't be king
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: in this this very fertile land. So Dupang listened to
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: this advice. So he sent people to reinforce Hangu Pass
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: to refuse entry. Now, when the news traveled to Shangui,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: he was furious because he himself defeated the two major
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: Qin army in the field. That's the only real that's
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: the main reason why the Qin dynasty fell, because the
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Qin army was defeated and then this dubug guy you know,
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: snuck through the back door and somehow was able to
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: steal his fruit of his victory. And now he intended
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: to refuse Shangi intry. So Shani order double March two
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: mark Chan the Qin capital. At this time, uh chiang
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Us ranks have swalled, you know, joined with rebel forces
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: from all walks of lives. So the early mentioned the
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: king the state of Han and state Away has also
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: been restored. So the King of Hans sent the Han
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: army to join him. The new king of wei Weibao
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: also sent the personally led the army away to join him.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: So by this time hiang UIs forces swallowed up to
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: like six hundred thousand, that including two hundred thousand of
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: surrendered Chin troops. When the Qing general Zanghan surrender, Chang
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: We didn't trust Sanghan, so he immediately invited Zanghan to
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: serve as his advisor within his own camp to separate
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Zanghan from the command of the Qin army and instead
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: he gave the command of the Chain army to Zanghan's
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: former right hand and Smashing. Smashing also happened to be
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: the man who advocated sometime to surrender to Shanni. This
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: is why a lot of historians thinks smash In may
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: had some beforehand deal with Shang Shang family because they
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: had the because Smashing was the one who led Shangi's
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: uncle Shangdan go from a rest warrate, you know, before
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: they became rebels, so they so they suspect there there's
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: probably probably this is why SHANGI trust this Smashing to
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: lead this two hundred thousand uh Chin troops. But there's
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: a lot of friction among the Chin troops and the
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: troops from the other states because the other six States troops,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: a lot of them had previously served as corvet labor
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: to go build the first imperson masoleum to build the
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: new Chin Palace. Then they're always they had been essentially
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: being enslave and treated badly by the people of Qing.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: So now they after the chan In army surrendered, they
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: thought this is an opportunity for revenge, uh you know,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: to to to to take it out on the surrendered
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Chin troops. So they treated them as their slaves, you know,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: and and otherwisely humiliated them. So this created a lot
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: of discontent among the Chin troops and they start talking
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: on themselves, and they said, you know, our general somehid
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: deceived us to surroundin showing you now now you know
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: they say their stated aim was to overthrow the Qing dynasty. Uh.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: That's all well and good if their plan was successful.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: But if they fail, if they failed to break through.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: At this time, the news that the King of Chin
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: surrender hasn't reached the army camp yet. They said, but
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: what if they fail, If they failed, if they couldn't
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: break through the hungle pass the feudal lords here, they
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: will likely enslave us and take us back Act Yea
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: is with them, while the Chin Imperial government will punish
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: our families who are left behind in the land of chain,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: will execute our parents, our wives, our children. So what
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: are we going to do then? And there's a lot
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: of talk like this, and soon this this talk reported
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: back to Shangi himself, and Shang You called a meeting
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: of his closest generals and he said this the he he,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: he said, these are Chin troops are still very numerous.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Right now, they're under our thumb because their general has surrendered.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: But as we get closer and closer to their homeland,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: and if they decide to rebel against us when we
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: get back to get inside stated Chain, that could create
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: a lot of trouble for us. So to deal with
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: this problem permanently, shang Ui assigned General Ymbu and Pull
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Joan during these two always uh his goal to guide
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: are his enforcers. Yeah, yeah, because those those two were
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: the ones who led the spearheaded the two offensive to
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: cut off the supply line between Zanghan and Wangli back
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: in the Battle of Julu, Right, So so now he's
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: a task pull Jimbu and pull Jong Jun, who leia
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: ambush for the Chin troops. You know, they wait until
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: the middle of the night, and they fell upon the
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: camp encampment of the Chain troop and massacred them all,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: two hundred thousand strong. Fishing of Shangu to massacre two
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: hundred thousand uh surrendered Chin troops. This is this puts
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: him on the same level as the Chain General bai
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Chi who killed four hundred thousand surrendered Sau troops after
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: the Battle of Tamping. And this is always a a
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: a dark stain on a shang And and I think
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: there's a couple of reasons why he did that. One is,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: you know, the supply there was also like Tong Pin,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: the supply was running low. Shang Hiang hiang Ui, he
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: has trouble feeding six hundred thousand troops. Two he didn't
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: trust Sanghan. Sanhan was he somehow was just too capable
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: of general and the examply the only reason Zanhan surrendered
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: because he was, you know, impossible situation. But Shang, you
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: never trusted Zanghan even though he promised Sanghang would be
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: king in in Ching. So so he thought this will
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: clip the wings of Zanghan, you know, to to so this,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: this whole affair of killing two hundred thousand Chin troops
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: permanently lost, Uh Shan Yui is a support of the people,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: After this, Yeah, this was probably the primarily a matter
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: of not trusting Chang Khan because an't know in a
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: way it seems you can. It's very understandable for the
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: assorted rebel troops that they were all cove labor and
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: you know under the Chin States. So they have this
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: rancor towards the Chin army. But this Chin army that
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: has defeated them is itself primarily amnesty cove labor that
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Changhan had led out. So if I think Sean you
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: had wanted to, there probably would have been an opportunity.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Because these our troops are loyal to Chianghan specifically right
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: as this amnesty COVID label, they are not particularly loyal
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: to the Chin State. So if you keep them around
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: and you're going to make Changhan the king of at
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: least part of the former Chin State, and then he
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: is able to still use these troops, now he is
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: very powerful, and that's I think the Chay is just
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: like worried about that, about that situation, I guess he
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: does not. Another solution would be if you could just
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: divvy up these troops among the rebel alliance commanders. But
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: because this is a having played a romance of three
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Kingdoms from Kwami back in the day, this is the commons.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: When you have the captured general that you don't trust,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: he's got a large army. You just divvy up the
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: troops among the generals with the higher loyalty figure and
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: loyalty number and problem solved. But as I think we'll
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: get to later, shall Ju does not actually seem to
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: have that close knit group of subordinates as Lilban would, right,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: who is he going to divvy up these two hundred
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: thousand troops among really either like in the commanders from
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: other states, from other resusciety states that are basically independent
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: of him, or like I guess you can give them
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: to ying Pu and is the other guy. But you know,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: there are still limits there, and he, as we'll get
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: to later, he might have some legitimacy problems within his
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: own family as well. So although because otherwise you know,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: it would see if he has a loyal card of commanders,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: that seems like the simplest solution is to divvy up
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: a large is that, you know, send some of these
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: guys home and then like divvy up the remainder among
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: separate commands and then your problem is solved. But I
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: guess that option did probably did not exist for him,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: So he decides, being a kind of you know, brutal
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: pragmatic person, he decides on the most brutal pragmatic.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Option, right, yeah. I mean that basically precluded any kind
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: of loyalty that people of Chin would feel toward showing me,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: because he now became their blooded blood enemies, you know,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: having killed like two hundred thousand of their sons by
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: showing me, Now he made double mac March of his
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: remaining four hundred thousand troops toward Uh to their Hungle Pass,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: and and he was again. When they approached the Hungle Pass,
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Hungo Pass was closed and they say, under the order
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: of Lord pay this has been bound that we are
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: to refuse entry to any outside army. So Shai was
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: so angry he ordered ym Pu and Pu juang Jun
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: to take the pass. Uh. They were able to find
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: a back like a like a like a back way,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: I guess through the mountains. There's a small road to
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: go behind the pass, and then they were able to
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: take the Hungo Pass. And at this time, Uh, I.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Guess this is because I was when I heard about that.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: I wondered, why did no one else figure this out
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: during all these other times the sixth States attacked the
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Hungle Pass. And presumably it's because, uh, you know those
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: previous wars. You know, the Chin Army, it's been stationed
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: there for a long time. They know all these passes, right,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: so whereas Lil Bung's rebel army they've just recently taken
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: it over and they've got some you know, personnel management issues,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: so it probably got missed.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And also Shang, you still have Zanghan and other
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: surrendered Chin generals. They probably know all the weaknesses of
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: the of the of the hunger pass if they intended
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: to help Shangi, because and but they do have an
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: incentive because Shang you have promises and land and titles
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: inside state the chain. And so at this particular juncture,
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: what to make matter worse is one of the Dubang's
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: own underlings. How Wusang has sent words into Shangu's camp
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: and says, Uh, and to SHANGI, yes, you know Liubang,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: he intends to be king inside the past, inside the
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: state of chain. He intends to refuse entry to you
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Uh to prevent and you guys marching on the Qin capital.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: So that this this makes Chiang You're even more angry.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: So he ordered the army to sit camp and to
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: have a feast. Right now, there's about he's about ten
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: kilometers away from the camp of Dubang. So he ordered
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: to sit camp and to have a hold of feasts,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: so all the all the troops will be fed properly
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: to prepare for the coming battle tomorrow against the Ubang.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: So at this time Ubang has all together one hundred
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: thousand troops on his command and Changi has four hundred
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: thousand troops. Right, there's quite big difference in force. And
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: plus the Changi's force are much more battle hardened than
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Nubuns forces. Yuban forces, a lot of them. They are
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: recruited on the way, you know, the people who join him.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: So uh, when Yubang now now the the the thing
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: happened this night that would change the course of history.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Because Shang his uncle Shang Bull heard about this and
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: he decided to be an informer because he has a
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: very he's a very good friend of the bounce advisor
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Zangian Zangiang. Just back in the days, Soundly unsaved Shambo's life.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: You know, Shambo was under some had some kind of
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: arrest warrant, you know for killing somebody. Uh, and Sandy
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Un sheltered him until you know, the coast was clear,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: so and they became very close. So he felt he
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: owe dead a gratitude Zano. So he he decided to
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: right sneak away in the middle of the night because
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: the attack was to come in the in the morning.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: So he's he snuck the night before, a great night
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: before into the camp and they bound to find Zangi
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: and total, Look, you know now you saved my life before.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Now it's time for me to repay my debt. Now
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna say yours leave, leave before the battle tomorrow.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: But doddly and says, well, I I really appreciate what
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: you have done for me. But I have been trusted
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: by my king, King of Han, to accompany Lord pay
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Ubang to to to overthrow the Chain dynasty. And now
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: I have accompanied him this far. If I were to
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: leave him without a notice, one, I would be betraying
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: the trust of my king. And also I will be
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: trust the friendship I have with the Ubang. So if
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: you want me to leave, fine, I will go with you,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: but under one condition that allow me to go, say
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: goodbye Tom and so he he went to So so
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Toddly I went to see see the Ubang and he said, look,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: we're in deep trouble. You need to attack us. Uh
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: Who was it I give you the idea to block
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: the Hungle pass. Apparently this was not advice that Tonya
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: oh like like at that time. It seems a good idea.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: And Sonya says says, well, do you think with the
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: man we have, do you think you can you can resist.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: Uh you think you are a match for Shan was
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: like no, he said, okay, well then so now we
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: have a chance, you know, and we have shang Shang
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: uncle here now uh uh uh you know we we
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: we may have a chance to diffuse the situation. Okay,
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: please please just tell me what to do. They say. Okay,
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Tony said like, I'm gonna I'm gonna bring Shambo in, like,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: let's have a talk with him, you know, make sure
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: you treat him with respect.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: So, so, Sonny, I'm convinced Shambo to come with him
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: to see the Ubang and immediately have a whole lay
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: out a banquet. And he was treating Shambo as his
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: older brother. So the Obama right now is about fifty
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: so so Shambo maybe a few years older. Uh so
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: so so so the Obum put on his best face.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: He became very humble and he tells Shamble, look, uh,
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: this is all a misunderstanding actually, because I have been
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: uh you know, I had me and and and shang
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: rii General Shangi. We were comrading armed. We fought side
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: and side together. Uh you know they did. They were
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: fighting side inside together until Shangi's uncle Shanny and was killed.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: And he said, look, I have always had great respect
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: for General shang Yu and his family, and and you know,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: because I just got lucky. You know, I was able
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: to seize this chance to march into Chin capital first
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: before General Shani. What I did after I have arrived
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: is I have to carefully sealed all the treasuries. I
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: have to steal all the palaces. And I had camped
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: my army outside the capital to patiently waiting for the
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: arrival of General hung. Now as for the guards that
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: I put on hungle paths, it's a completely misunderstanding because I,
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: you know, wanted to know. I wanted to maintain orders
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: and k like I wanted to make sure no other
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: rebel forces or any other forces to come in. You know,
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: I want to keep this lan safe for for General
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: shall use rival. But they they they the defender there obviously,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: you know, they did not understand my orders. It's like
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: it's all big misunderstanding. Ready, and and then he h
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: he proposed you know, like, ah, you know I had
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: I Now we just talk briefly, but I feel like
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: we have been like longtime friends. How about how about
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: we we become even closer uh, you know, I have
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: a daughter. I have a daughter. You know she's gonna
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: reach marriageable age soon. You know, I think, you know,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: we can we can we can bridge the gap between
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: my family and the Shang family if your Sun would
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: marry my daughter. And so it was all agree. You know,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: they had a great, great banquet, and Shambo he went
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: back to the camp of Shang Yi and he reported
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: everything to Shang. Now, okay, why would Shambu do this?
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: A couple you know explanations. One is, you know, Shangbo
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: he was actually at this time, he was serving as
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: a left prime minister of the True State, so pretty
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: high position. And he's also right now he is the
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: head of the Shang family. Shambo is a cousin of
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Shang Yang and uncle of Shang. So after the why so,
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: first of all, why would the you know, the King
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: of Chu appoint Shambu as a left prime minister after
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Shang Shang he has.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Forcibly taken control of the ex army by executing the
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: king's appointee, right, yeah.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: So why would the King of Chu then appoint Shambu
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: as a left prime minister and then send him to
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: the camp of Shangi Now, one explanation is because Shang
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: Bu is the real head of the Shang family, not Shiang.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: You know that because the way that Grant his historian
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: sumach And wrote about Shan Yu and Shang Yian, it
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: almost seems like Shang shang Yong was grooming Shangi as
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: his successor from a very young age, you know, because
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: they all fled together, and Chang was always by his
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: his uncle Shang Yan side. It almost seems like they
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: were the only families, the Shang families that survived. Right.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: But but from this case we saw, no, that's not
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: the case. There's a lot of Shang family members and
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: more and more will show up. And and what Shung
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: you really the intended uh, you know, the heir and
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: successor to to shan Ya. Maybe not because uh, Shang
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: shang Hu was our orphan a very at very young
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: age when he was aged nine when his father probably
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: died together with the grandfather Shang Yin in the war
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: against the Chin State, and and Shang's father been the
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: eldest older son would have been the heir of his grandfather.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: But because his father died while Shangui is young like
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: his uncle Shangyan, became the head of the Shang family
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: by defright. And and it's more likely, you know, most
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: of the if Shang Yang had had you know, gon
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: on and succeeded overthrow the Chang dynasties, more likely Shanian
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: would have passed the succession to his own sons along
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: his own lines and and and a lot of times
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Shang You was more acting as shan Yan's bodyguard. You know,
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: he accompanied him everywhere, including the time when they went
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: to Uh, when they stayed the rebellion, went to the
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: the office of the magistrate where Shang Shang Yang gave
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: the signal to for Shangu to kill the governor. Right.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: So so you know, way Shang You was acting more
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: as a bodyguard slash, you know, his uh headman slashed
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: the headman of of of Shanya. And maybe this is
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: why when when Shangu was young, Shang young, his uncle
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: shan Yan was training him in reading and swordmanship and
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: and the strategy, Shang You kind of always gave up halfway.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Not because Shangu was arrogant, uh. And what the impression
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: is Shang he is arrogant. He's like he thinks he's
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: a know it all right, But if you look at
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: how Shung we perform once he did take over. This
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: guy is actually brilliant. He is a great tactician, right,
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: he's a great commander. So maybe maybe he was taking it.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Maybe he was purposely.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Sort of like giving the impression that he's not as capable,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: you know, which from our modern perspective, always feels kind
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: of strange because we have been brought up to kind
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: of to try to show off your smarts right when possible,
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: and if you think you have, and that's why we
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: do these podcasts, right, to show off our spots to Internet.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: It would be very strange for us to kind of,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: you know, play retheard right to for for the sake
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: of political survival, to not appear threatening.
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: I guess this is in some context you this.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Might apply in some corporate context maybe, but yeah, to
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: to not to threatening to his uncle Shun young. Right,
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Shan Young has his own own kids to worry about.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: His own kids, probably much younger than Shang at this time.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: And and and and this is why Shang Shang you
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: had to play the role as a meathead. You know,
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: he's he's that's how his his uncle was using him
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: as a muscle man as a meathead, you know. So
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: so he has to hide his own edge, his own
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: brilliance by by by pretending he's like, okay, this, uh,
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: this is good for nothing. But as soon as his
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: uncle died, shang we seize the chance, you know, take
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: over the command of the two army. Now, it's also
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: likely because the King of to understand there's there's possible
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: schism within the Shang family between you know, the head
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: of the Shang family, Shambu and now the one who
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: call the power, shan Ri. That's why the King of
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: who appointed Shambu as a left prime minister and send
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: him to the camp of Shaani to kind of balance
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: out Shangri's own power. So from this point of view,
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: shan Bu's loyalty is not necessarially to shang Ri, but
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: to the Shang family or to the the ban of
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: the family branch. He's leading, right, so he had to.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: But the other explanation is Shambu was actually sent by
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: shan Ui himself kind of as a spy into Niubuan's camp,
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: you know, to to find out what ubus real intentions were.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: And now he accomplished his mission because when he went
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: back to shan use camp. The first thing he did
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: was to report to Sham He said, well, he said,
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Noubunda did not intend to resist us.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: He was.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: And besides you you will look very bad.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: You know this.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: This is a guy who said he had all the
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: treasury sealed, all the palace guarded, waiting for our arrival.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: And if we come, the first thing we do is
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: chop on his head. That will make us look bad, right,
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: I mean like like and so, so we should just accept,
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: you know, his plea, you know, whether it's real or imagined.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: But he's showing his subjugation to us now, because.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Here is something else for us to recall, is that
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: fighting against the Chin army. This coalition force that sewn
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: you is leading is united. But there is a coalition force.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: So if he's going to start a war with Leo
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Bon right now, it's not. Despite his charisma and the
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: like authority won on the battlefield, it's not at all
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: clear how much of this army would follow him if
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: he were to start a war with Libuan without adequate cause. Right,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: this funny business at the Hangol Gate is kind of
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: it doesn't quite rise to the level of like open
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: mutiny because you know, during this period of rebellion, people
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: are trying to grab pieces of territory here and there
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: is kind of understandable up to a certain point, and
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: you know, orders can get crossed. But if Leobung is
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: now basically looks not providing any pretext for an attack,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: it's you could splinter his coalition by attacking. And if
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Leoblong is going to just give up and like acknowledge
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: his supremacy, then he's kind of one without having to
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: fight him.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: Right exactly. And also you know, if Duban was very
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: outright about okay, you know, I don't want you to
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: come in and block the hungle path. At the time
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: when Yuban blocks a Uncle passed, the allied rebel forces
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: were still with Shangi because their goal is to go
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: inside the chain capital and loop for themselves, and they
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: see dub intended to chieve all that to himself. That's
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: that's that, no, no, you know that. So that makes
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: Yubun public enemy number one. But now Ubuan says he's
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: willing to share, willing to give it up all for us,
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: then they have no reason to fight. They have no reasons,
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: so there's no reason for them to to throw their
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: lot with Shangrii in what they would see a personal
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: fuel between Shangi and Ubang. So in this case, uh, yeah,
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: it's it just makes sense better political sense like uh,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: Like the Art of War says the victory with without
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: battle is the best option. Uh. And shang Yi what
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: he has done is by his sheer military threat, by
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: the sheer threat of his military size and force, he
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: was able to force Nubound to bend the knee.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: And we only think of it as a mistake for
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: him not to kill Liuba at the time because we
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: know how the story ends later. But that's like quite
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: a few years later with many more you know, twists
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: and turns. Right at this moment, it's like he has
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: the choice of starting internec in the war that he
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: could probably maybe still win though at great cost with
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: some you know, unpredictable outcomes, or you know, the guy
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: is willing to bend the knee now, so really, what's trying.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: So on the other hand, in the in the Campo Ubang,
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: they they they still waiting for the result, but at
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: this time they designed Ubunk decided to you know, to
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: to to settle this dispute by showing up himself to
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: offer a personal homage to Shun. So he chose one
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: hundred riders. Among this one hundred, he chose his most
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: trusted personnel, his his advisor Joan Young and his personal
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: body are found quiet. You know who is also the
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: brother in law of his wife and the and the
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: driver is Uh shaho Ying. Shaho Ying was a guy
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: that grew up with Dubang and when they were horsing around,
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: Dubum accidentally stabbed Shahoing with his sword. And when the
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: people who want you to get in trouble accused Nubang
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: of wounding wounding somebody, Shaho Yin said no, that was
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: not Nil Bung's fault. And Shaho was endure one hundred
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: whips one hundred whips as punishment and was in prison
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: for a year for the obank. So these guys Duban
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: could absolutely trust that served as his entourage. The total
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: hundred riders marched into Uh Shangui's camp to to to
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: see Shangi and he he when he he now shang
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: UIs army is camp at a place called homeman Uh.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: When the Yubang came, Shang You hosted a banquet to
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: hold Ubang and this this meeting will be known as
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: home and Yen, the feast at home mean which you know,
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: it's for the English audience, the you know, to better
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: understand the Home and Yen in Chinese medium. Now it's
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: like a trap. You're a trap. Uh in English equivalent
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: will be red wedding, the red wedding. So so this
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: when when Yupang went to this uh, this banquet, this
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: is probably the most uh. This is the time his
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: life is the most danger because at this time, even
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: though Shangbu has convinced shan to let go of the Obang,
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: but not everyone in shang Is camp sees it that way.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: One fashion led by Shani's advisor Funds and so Funds
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: and is like a seventy year old man who kind
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: of joined shang Yang when Shang Yang rose to become
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: successor of of of ten Sen and Swanzan was the
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: one who suggested they needed a king of two to
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: get a descendant of the true royal family to get
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: gain legitimacy and Arthur shan Yang died. Funds and was
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: also a deputy general together with shang U during the
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: Battle of trihu uh And and Shani has come to
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: trust Funds and and he even calls Funds and Yahfu,
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: which means uncle. He calls him uncle. Right, so, but
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: but Funds then he still wants to get rid of
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: the Obama because he he has shang Yi. He said,
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: I have observed the aura of oba Uh. You know,
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: I can see above of his army camp. There were
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: like five color five colors, like a like a rainbow
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: that was rising out of out of his army camp.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: This is the aura of emperor.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: So if now he's coming to us, this is the
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: beast chance for you to to get rid of him,
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: you know, Otherwise if we don't do another reason he
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: gave his like yubang is a before before he entered
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: the Chimp land, he used to be the man who's
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: famous for being very greedy and very lust for you know,
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: he loves he loves money, and he loves women. Yet
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: once he enters the capitol, he seals the imperial palace,
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: he doesn't touch the all those beautiful women in the
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: in the heram, he does not take the He does
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: not let his army or himself to lose the treasure
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: of Chin. That means he had designed on greater things.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: You know this this man's ambition is not limited to
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: just acquire wealth and women, and so this he's a
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: very dangerous rival. You should now we have the chance,
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: you should eliminate him now right. Uh, but Sean, we
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: didn't lessen. Uh still you know, walcome, uh welcome Dubuan
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: to the camp. And when Dupan arrived and up immediately
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: said he he he he he made uh he immediately
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: start to make his case. He said, look, oh General,
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: you know remember the times when we were brother in arms,
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: fighting together in the battlefield. And ever ever since we
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: have been split up. You have been fighting in the
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: north of the Yellow River. I fight in the south
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: of the Yellow River. It's to our joint effort we
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: were able to throw overthrow the Chin dynasty. You know,
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: ever since I got so low to be the first
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: to enter in the chain capital, I have been sealing
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: the treasure, discipline, the populace, waiting eagerly waiting for your arrival. Uh.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: You know, please do not let some misunderstanding, you know,
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: spoil our relationship. Uh now, shang you at this time.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: He you know, it's like, oh, come, come, come, it's
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: it's just like, uh, you know, I would not have
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: acting against you if it wasn't for uh, you know,
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: this must be some small person spreading rumors. You know,
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: I've heard him from your subordinates. How song, Now Chang,
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: you didn't need to do that. He just sewed out
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: the informer. He did not He could have just graciously
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: accepted the O bounce uh subjugation. But maybe he's trying
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: to gain theill Bounce trust. I don't know. I don't
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: know why shall Actually this is the point, I don't
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: understand why Shang you did that. He did not need
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: to sell the informer inside the oll Bounce camp, but
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: he did just casually throw out. Oh, by the way,
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: it's only because how your your general, howe told me
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: that's why you know there was a misunderstanding. And then
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: like come come, come have a banquet, so funds. Then uh,
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: during during the banquet, funds and keep on like giving
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: the eye to like giving the order to kill the
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: right signal. You just ignored him, so funds and decide,
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: you know what, Uh, I kind of take the matter
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: into my own hand. So he went to a cousin
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: of Shang Shang Chuang. He said, look, our lord SHANGI
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: is too compassionate. This is very dangerous if he lets
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: Uban also hook this time in the future, we'll all
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: be captives to in the end. This is you know,
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: we should not let this and to slip through our fingers.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: Why don't you offer to perform a sword dance. You know,
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: while you are performing the sword dance, you get close
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: to the Yubank and just run in through with your sword,
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: and we're running into our mark. So I was saying
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: that the actual banquet and homeman to the next episode
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: to see how Niovank Niovank can leave with his life.
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: Any other questions or comments.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: No, I think I mean, this is a good spot
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: to leave it, and then we will just carry on
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: next time. I would make one remark about at the
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: beginning for the reasons why the Chin dynasty fell so quickly,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: as we'll see later on. Often like there is this
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: idea that develops that the typical dynasty lasts like three
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: hundred years or so.
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: You have this early period where people are vigorous and.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: Like kind of harsh but like not and kind of
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: more morally upstanding, and then you eventually and then you're
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: rich for a long time, and then you bea the
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: elites anyway, and then you become kind of degenerate and
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: then decadent, and then eventually some disaster comes by that
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: everything goes that falls apart. What we'll see is that
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: oftentimes these dynasties will have moments of great crisis even
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: regard at different times after that family, even quite early,
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: and it's a question of whether there is.
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: Sufficient people who are in a position to take advantage
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: of that momentary wobbling or not.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: And here in the Chin, with the Chin dynasty, you
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: have a kind of a vacuum of effective leadership after
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: the first emperor is gone, combined with all of these
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: former elites resentful like former elites from the Six States,
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: still like bumming around but still with money and influence,
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: ready to take advance to piggyback on the peasant uprising
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: because there wasn't. I'm someone some peasant uprising would have
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: happened at some point, but it probably would have been
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: like quashed, right had a Chang shahans or Fusu with
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: his eldest son still been around. And because of the
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: you had these shenanigans with the childcaw and this like
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: vacuum of effective authority in the Chin state.
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: It allowed the rebellion to gain steam.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: Also on the side of the leadership of the Six States,
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: they were not united.
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: They were not so united fighting.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Against the Chin during the Warring States period because they
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: had not yet had the experience of all being subjugated
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: by the Chin State. Right, it's a kind of a
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: post colonial situation in a way. It's like when I
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: if we think of the like India before the British
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: con before the dominance of British Eastern Company and things.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: Oh these are various portane It's if they had rallied together,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: they could have you know, probably defeated British Ethne Company in.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: Bengal, like.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: Like hyder Ali and the Nizama of Hyderabad and the Marathas.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: I think is that those are the three big powers,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: but they all see each other as threats as well. Right,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: it's after they have been subjugated by the British for like,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: you know, a couple of hundred years, and they have
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: this all common experience of being subjugated by these guys,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: and then they have this common goal of wanting to wanting.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: To overturn it.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: Whereas you know, these leaders of the of the Six States,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: I mean they during the warring period. The Chin is threatening,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: but each of the others is all kind of threatening too.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: It's not so obvious that they should band together, whereas
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: it has to be made obvious by events afterwards. You
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: can argue that, oh, should we should I should sacrifice
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: my short term, short to medium term interests to you know,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: back together with these other guys, even if they become stronger,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: because the Chin is the greater threat. Well, I don't know,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: should I do that? What if the other these other
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: guys are the bigger threat?
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: But and that there's no way to definitively settle that
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: argument until Chin actually beats all of them and conquers
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: all of them, and then it's true, and then the
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: argument is settled.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: Chin is the greater threat.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: And now so then at least for the younger people
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: who grew up under Chin, under the Chin domination and
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: you know, resented the most I suppose they like, then
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: they're relatively united and they can you know, mostly fight
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: the Chin state once the Chin State comes coming comes
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: calling again.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, nobody can tell the future right for seeing
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: the future, But I think you're right because also the
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: Chin conquest of six states actually happened very fast. I mean,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: it all happened during the first imperse watch and it's
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: really his uh it is his last ten years of
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: his reign.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: It all happened within a few years, so the other
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: states didn't have a chance to absorb, to realize, oh shit,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: we don't buy unite together, we're all gonna file, because
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: it's more like all crap. It just happened, like it's
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: happened too quickly for them to able to respund effectively.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: And also these six states at that time also had
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: their own internal issues, you know, like like like with
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: the King of Zau killing his most capable general, you
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: know Wu, and you know that didn't help, and the
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: and also you know, the Chin stayed itself actually lasted
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: over five hundred years. Chin dynasty only last fifteen years,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: but Chin Stayed itself lasted five hundred years. And they
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: actually had a very lucky wrong for six generals, six
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: seven generations up to the first import. They all have
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: very capable kings. You know, you can't you can't keep
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: up with a lucky streak man. You know, what are
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: the odds you're can also always end up with a
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: capable import, even after seven generations, right, I mean you.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: Could you could say that the Chin dynasty did not
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: is not so different.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: It's not unique in this in this dynastic cycle in
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: terms of when it when its leadership kind of qualities
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: hollowed out. It didn't hollow out very early because of
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: the brutalities, but it had the long, the long streak
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: of you know, diligent successful rulers, like for a couple
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: of hundred years already.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, like you just it
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: just so happened that I think the new political order
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: that was established under the first import it wasn't strong
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: enough to survive a like a like a power or
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: vacuum that was created when the you know, with the
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: with the impro huhai and that's aw goal uh their
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: their shenanigan, and in combination with the six states nobility
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: ready to punks, and then you combine that with all
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: the peasants also up being armed because of the increased
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: pressure of the corved labor. It's kind of like a
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: multiplication of things that all added together created the perfect storm.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: And but but you know, like the thing I want
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: to go back to, So the simplest explanation was the
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: Chin had too many harsh laws, and you bunk came
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: in and abolish all the harshin laws and only remained
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: three regulations don't kill, don't wound, don't rob. Right, but
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: that actually never had time chance to get implemented in
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: real life because as we see, shang He's army marched
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: in soon after, and then later the war will start
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: as a big civil war will start. And later when
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: Chan dynasty was established, they mostly copy the gen laws.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: So all these supposedly gen laws work, actual hards may
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: not stand to close scrutiny because dynasty just copy the
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: gen loss and and and you know Nubaun, what Newbound did,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: it was a popularity boost, no doubt. But actually the
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: you know his real fa Sanzang, those three regulations never
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: actually truly got had chance to get implemented.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: But the value is all from the proclamation because if
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: they had actually tried to implement that, it would have
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: created quite a bit of administrative chaos. Right suddenly you
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: are trying to because you would ratherly have to restore
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: lots of those laws for the like state and like
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: and uh yeah, for basically the state to function and
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: the so the value is simply that I'm in fact,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: I seem to recall that we are not sure he
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: actually made that proclamation? Is that not some no, no, no,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: he made that proclamation which he just never got actually implemented,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: because even even Hind dynasty established, they just they didn't
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: go back to the proclamation.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: They just copy the Chin laws and implemented. Is I
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: think the more important thing was he proclaimed that every
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: body got to keep their position, you know, yeah, that's
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: the most Yeah.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: There's no depotification as we would remember from twenty years.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: Ago, right, yes, yes, yes, yes, So he kept like
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: that allayed people's fear. You know, things were like keeping
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: going as before. And this is why all the notables
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: are now trying to kiss up by bringing gifts to
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: his army and that and but but this, this, this
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: this truly marks the difference between Leo Bang and Shang Yi,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: because on one hand is Leobank who says, oh, you
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: guys get to keep all your positions, life gets to
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: go on, and then Chang comes like have two hundred
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: thousand chain troops executed, you know, like this is all
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: the sons of all the of the all the locals.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: So being too much of an edged lord does not
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: actually work in the real politics. You have to like
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: mollify the boomers like in reality. So that's why they
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: had the That's why they it was worthwhile to prop
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: up to find this, like they're sending the true house
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: to begin with, right is to like give people the
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: sense of the continuity. And that's there is some kind
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: even though you though you are living through the extraordinary circumstances,
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: there are some kind of normal order of things going on.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: And Lil Bang is is signaling that he's going to
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: provide that, and Hiang Yu is signaling that he's a
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: very bloody minded and there's nothing to care.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: It's moving fast and breaking.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: Things and so yeah, and then well we'll talk about
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: more of that when we return next week. But you know,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: first we will resolve the famous feast at Home and
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: Home and again one of the most famous banquet in
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: Chinese history. And so thanks for listening until next time.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: Bye bye bye