Latest / UK Column Radio / UK Column News Podcast 15th May 2024

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UK Column News Podcast 15th May 2024 · UK Column Radio

0:08
Good afternoon. It's Wednesday, the fifteenth of May twenty twenty four, just
0:11
after one o'clock. Welcome to UK column News. I'm your host, Mike
0:14
Robinson joining me today my video link. We've got Alex Thompson from Tblisi and
0:18
Georgia and hopefully, if technical problems can be resolved at the Damascus end,
0:24
Vanessa Billy. She hasn't been able to get on just yet, so we've
0:29
got a few minutes before Vanessa segment, so hopefully Vanessa will be able to
0:32
join us for that night. We're going to get started with well, let's
0:37
call it foreign interference, because of course the news in the UK has been
0:43
full of Chinese cyber attacks, Russian cyber attacks and Chinese spying over the last
0:48
little while, and Britain very excited about foreign countries interfering in British affairs.
0:54
So this is GHQ pushing out a tweet saying speaking cyber UK twenty four this
1:00
morning, our director and Keith Butler highlighted high China poses a genuine and increasing
1:07
cyber risk to the UK and so she was quoted there as saying, in
1:11
cyberspace, we believe that the People's Republic of China's irresponsible actions weakened the security
1:17
of the Internet for all, So there you go. In the meantime,
1:21
the Foreign Office called the Chinese ambassador in for addressing down the FCDO they said,
1:26
was unequivocal in setting out that the recent pattern of behavior directed by China
1:30
against the UK, including cyber attacks, reports of espionized links and the issuing
1:36
of bounties, is not acceptable, and they went on to say the summons
1:40
followed Monday's announcement that three people have been charged with offenses under the National Security
1:45
Act as part of the investigation led by officers from the Met Police's counter Terrorism
1:49
Command. The Foreign Intelligence Service to which the charges relate is that of the
1:53
Hong Kong Special Administrative Region. So that's what's been going on in the UK,
2:00
and lots of noise being made about that in the UK, but which
2:04
is quite ironic because just a couple of days ago a documentary was published on
2:10
Italian media. Here it is this is all about the murder of Aldo more
2:16
Morol sorry and others, and so hugely interesting points being made here. So
2:23
let's just have a quick look at the types of things they are talking about.
2:27
The talk about a British Special Committee which planned a military coup in Italy
2:31
in nineteen seventy six. So when we're talking about foreign interference and cyber attacks
2:36
from China and Russia, how does that compare to this. So planning a
2:39
military coup in Italy in nineteen seventy six is the allegation. The plan was
2:45
dropped following pressure from the United States and was replaced with a different subversive action,
2:51
including the possible assassination of Aldermorrow in nineteen seventy eight. It includes testimony
2:57
of Claudio Signorile, who was Deputy Secretary General of the Italian Socialist Party,
3:05
who said in the course of his interview that Rome was full of intelligence agency
3:10
British intelligence agents at the time, that Red Brigades had regular contact with British
3:16
intelligence at the time, and that British Intelligence had agents in all political parties
3:21
in Italy at the time. And the documentary argues that someone outside of the
3:25
Red Brigades influenced the Reprogades to kill Aldon Warrack because he was revealing the existence
3:31
of Operation Gladio to his Red Brigade captors. Now, with respect to the
3:37
question of whether or not Britain was involved or discussing the possibility of fermenting a
3:42
coup in Italy. Well, of course this has already been admitted in this
3:46
as a Guardian talking about that exact thing a few years ago, UK discusses
3:52
the Italian could halt communists. And so if we're looking at foreign interference,
3:57
just briefly look at British foreign interference. So of course that's what MI six
4:01
is all about, So let's put them on the list. Then, of
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course we've got the Foreign Come, Wealth and Development Office, and I'm highlighting
4:09
here the Conflex Stability and Security Fund in particular, but also the kind of
4:13
disinformation media development program we've got seventy seventh Brigade. Of course, we've got
4:17
the entire ngocso complex as non government organizations, civil society organizations that are interfering
4:25
in foreign countries. We have BBC Media Action there to train journalists in the
4:30
British mold in foreign countries, and of course BBC World Service in order to
4:34
propagandize foreign countries. So that's a little bit of that. But if you
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want to understand a little bit more about what or how the Foreign Office is
4:45
funding these types of operations. Have a look at the UK Column's website FCDO
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spending at FCDO spending dot UK column dot org. And although this is not
4:56
up to date because the Foreign Office has no I stopped published the data,
5:00
this does give an idea of the types of organizations that FCD or money is
5:06
going into. So, Alex, why are we mentioning this today? Well,
5:12
of course, urinetobilisi. And the question is the issue of foreign interference
5:17
and new legislation and Georgia to try to prevent foreign interference and bearing in mind
5:23
what I've just said, I mean, what are your thoughts on what I've
5:26
just said? First of all, and we can clearly see the Russian why
5:30
the Georgian government would be interested in preventing this type of activity, we can,
5:36
Mike, and let's just split the two halves, as you say,
5:40
very briefly. Then, in the mid nineteen seventies, Aldo Moro, although
5:45
he was of the Catholic political tradition himself, was planning and making no secret
5:49
of it, to bring the Italian Communist Party, which had reformed itself into
5:55
what's called euro Communists. They weren't staling this anymore, at least they claimed
5:59
not to be wanting to make them a junior partner in a governing coalition,
6:02
because at that stage Italy was getting through one government a year and needed coalitions,
6:06
and that is what shocked the Americans and British. His assassination was breathtaking
6:13
enough, not least because his widow testified on the oath that Henry Kissinger had
6:17
shortly beforehand threatened him with a sticky end if he didn't change course, but
6:24
also because the years of lead, as they're called the Annid di Piorbo which
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follow included spectacularly sized bombings like the bombing of Bologna railway station, something on
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a bigger scale than what was being seen in the Northern Ireland troubles at the
6:36
time. There are many overlaps of technique as well. So what we seem
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to be getting here is that Moro and those who have consistently seasoned politicians around
6:46
him for a long time testified as such. He was assassinated probably by genuinely
6:53
bad, genuinely left wing activists, but as has always been hinted, you
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can search on YouTube for BBC to Time Watch Gladio to find the long documentary
7:02
about this from the early nineties. They were SIS or six and special Forces.
7:10
British involvement behind that, and they were steering these men now in here
7:15
in Georgia and the formans of its Republic of Georgia. There's been no suggestion
7:18
yet of British intelligence steering action on the ground militarily, and that in my
7:24
experience has never been part of the discussion, except in Russian claims. I've
7:28
never seen any evidence for it. But you can see the way that the
7:30
wind would blow and what it would be that would rile up the governing coalition.
7:34
Will bear in mind that since the deposal of Michael Sakashvili a decade ago
7:41
now, who is now languishing here in prison, very serious condition actually in
7:46
his prison cell, and who was made stateless by the Georgians as well,
7:51
since that time, the ruling party and it hasn't needed a coalition much has
7:56
been called Georgian dream and is accused by its enemies of being stogies for the
8:00
Kremlin. Now, the I covered a bit of it the run up to
8:03
it last week, but after three week readings, on Tuesday morning local sign
8:09
so very early yesterday your time, the Foreign Agent's Bill became the Foreign Agents
8:16
Registration Act. So rather than give chapter of verse on what the act contains,
8:20
I hope to do that next week, once the dust has settled.
8:24
We'll look at the claims that are circulating at the moment now so here,
8:28
Alex. Sorry, sorry, let me just interrupt you one sec. I'm
8:31
really sorry to do that. I just want to check just before you continue
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with this report, because Vanessa has appeared. I just want to check we
8:37
can hear her. Okay. We normally do these checks before the program,
8:39
but if we can't hear then at least we've got a chance to sort that
8:43
out before before her segment. So Vanessa can can you? Can we hear
8:48
you? I can hear you. Excellent, super excellent, That is super
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you. Thank you, thank you very much. Right. Sorry, sorry
8:56
to interrupt you, Alex. Please continue, No problem at all, and
9:01
very reassuring to hear a disembodied voice from Vanessa. I'm sure the image will
9:03
prop up in due course as well. So let's go on to cover what's
9:07
happened in Georgia. The Foreign Agents Registration Act is now law, as in
9:11
most countries. The head of state here Presidents salomezu Abishili, a French Georgian
9:16
who is very pro EU wasn't able to stop it. We'll go straight to
9:20
the US response here from the Senate. So the two senior senators for this
9:26
kind of issue, Senator Jim Rish and Senator Gene Shaheen of the rhyming name,
9:31
have issued a slap on the wrist already to the Georgians, saying that
9:35
this is a dark day for Georgian democracy. And they speak of hundreds of
9:39
thousands of Georgians continuing to peacefully protest. Well to me see, well,
9:43
anyone's guest, the official population is somewhere north of a million. It could
9:46
be nearer to by this stage because half the country, in a population of
9:50
less than four million, lives here now de facto because they're all looking for
9:54
work here. But hundreds of thousands in this not very huge city geographically would
10:01
be hard to contrive. And I would say it's more like in the mid
10:05
tens of thousands from my personal impression having been here a couple of weeks.
10:11
It's the hypocrisy that gets people straight away here. For example, north of
10:16
the US, in Canada, the National Post has been reporting as of last
10:20
week that the federal government has been putting together legislation to oblige foreign agents to
10:26
register. I am not suggesting an equivalent of content between the two acts.
10:31
That's something that needs a fine legal toothcomb. But there are new offenses being
10:35
created in Canadian law, similar developments in Britain, Australia, several continental European
10:41
countries as well to oblige people to register as foreign donors and foreign sorry,
10:46
foreign foreign funded agents. We also see that there will be new offenses in
10:52
Canada, such as engaging in deceptive conduct at the direction of a foreign entity
10:56
with the intent to influence the exercise of a democratic writing Canada. Now we're
11:01
getting very close, indeed, to whether or not you give them merit the
11:03
claims of the ruling Georgian Dream Party, which got an eighty three to fort
11:09
yes, eighty three votes to thirty majority to pass this bill last or just
11:16
yesterday now. On my telegram channel, this immediately led to some cynicism.
11:22
So a gentleman called Andrews, who subscribed to us, and he doesn't mention
11:26
whether it's the Canadian bill he's talking about, but he says down the bottom
11:30
there that the very same week that this is happening in Georgia the West.
11:33
I think he means Canada has a bill that would require NGOs and independent media
11:37
receiving more than twenty percent of its funding from foreign donors to register as bearing
11:41
the interest of a foreign power. But my vagueness on this is probably the
11:46
whole point. It could be any number of Western countries right now. So
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here is the mop top recently installed prime minister, the latest Georgian dream Prime
11:56
Minister Iraqli Kobachinze. He's given a press conference about having met with the most
12:05
important US diplomats for this issue, which is Jim O'Brien, the Assistant Secretary
12:11
of State in charge of this part of the world. Jim O'Brien would be
12:16
the man who would advise on sanctions against the george and Dream leading figures if
12:20
necessary. And in that press conference, and we will go now to an
12:24
excellent website called Civil Georgia civ Il dot g E, which is of course
12:28
EU leaning, but provide accurate write ups in good English. He says he
12:33
doesn't want read the reputation of Georgia with the US to be damaged. It's
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a slightly bad English headline there, but never mind. I won't read all
12:41
of that obviously, but here's the main thing. When Radio sorry RFL rather
12:48
asked whether O'Brien who is going to be the man who presses the sanctions button
12:52
on Georgia if necessary, whether when Copachhetter was asked whether O'Brien had talked about
12:58
this, he said, oh, vaguely. I told him many more details
13:01
about a certain meeting. Who's this Evanishely. He's an oligarch who and this
13:05
week we may be going into an extra time, but an oligarch who came
13:09
from Russia to Georgia, of Georgian ethnicity, who dropped the previous revolutionary president,
13:15
Michael Sarkashfili four years into his presidency. And it is claimed by the
13:20
people now rioting or various kinds of protesting on the streets, who skew very
13:26
pro eu and young and student like, but by no means all of them
13:28
are. They claim that Vanisheelly has turned this Georgian dream party into its his
13:33
puppet and ultimately Russia's puppets. And look at this banner I put at the
13:37
top here. Kobohitti was asked by one journalist, who's this global party of
13:41
war? That your party. Georgian Dream keeps banging on about. And he
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said, well, I told mister O'Brien behold behind closed doors in detail what
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it is. But it's a delicate issue in their dangerous people. Well half
13:52
of Georgia believes that half doesn't. I'm no over sympathists with Georgian Dream.
13:58
They have against all law and decency, announced that publicly that they are going
14:03
to create a database of undesirables that even before you consider EUO session is a
14:09
no go. Right here on this balcony last night, as night was falling,
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I took a bit of the mood in and I am a good twenty
14:16
minutes walk and up a steep hill or two from the main drag Rooster Veli
14:20
Avenue where the protests are. But the loudhailer voice was carrying right the way
14:24
up, and you get this panoramic shot of the city here where you will
14:28
see how much the voice of a few more than a few, but not
14:31
a majority of angry protesters is carrying over the whole city. And then as
15:13
it got towards actual dusk, I gingerly went down to Freedom Square, the
15:18
start of Rusta Veley Avenue, and from the opposite side of the square you
15:20
will see a central column, a kind of Nelson's column equivalent, which is
15:24
Saint George slaying the dragon. The far side of that, behind the flashing
15:28
lights of the police and even fire brigade are in attendance. You will hear
15:31
the angry voices of these guys. The evening they realized that they had lost
15:33
the vote in Parliament. And this is really a Simpson's level angry rant.
15:39
The guy you'll hear is actually saying, won't someone think of the children?
15:43
That the next generation needs to have a future. Now, that might give
16:19
you the impression that the whole city was full of disgruntled people, as Western
16:23
media and US senators would have you believe. I went to stand ten yards
16:27
beyond that, and by the way, another ten yards beyond that was a
16:30
whole bunch of police pickup trucks, trucks parked out, and I have seen
16:34
them, you know, up to eight wide and maybe fifty men deep standing
16:40
at that corner to prevent riots in the last couple of days, wearing their
16:42
black masks, special force police from the Interior Ministry. But this evening there
16:48
wasn't even that, and just as I say, ten yards between the street
16:52
corner where the protest was and the police trucks, you see this much normal
16:56
life going on. So not everyone is enamored of the protests by any means,
17:21
And we'll play this bit out silently. You can see how much pushing
17:23
and shoving was going on when the special forces got stuck in with the protesters.
17:30
Of course, the people of a western bent will zoom in on this
17:33
and disregard the context of what kind of provocation has happened before. But it
17:37
is an intimidating lot, you know. It's particularly if you see a lot
17:41
of them out with their masks on. Sometimes they just wear COVID masks in
17:45
a sort of thin pretense that they're worried about catching an infection, but really
17:48
to obscure their identities. Sorry for the inavertent. Click there now, as
17:55
I've just trailed Grant. Chaps was asked what his Majesty's government thought about this
18:00
on the tail end of US Sky News interview. He's by no means an
18:03
expert in the corpuses. He's General Secretary of State for War, but he
18:07
made these remarks. I wanted to ask about Georgia at the weekend to Trevor
18:12
Phillips, Lord Cameron said, we actively support the Georgian people and we've made
18:17
clear to the government this bill is wrong. It seems his warning was not
18:21
sufficient. If the bill passes today is expected, what will be the UK
18:25
government's response. Well, look, this is for those who haven't been tracking
18:30
this Russian interference in Georgia just in the same way as we've seen Russia in
18:37
a more aggressive way, of course, go into Ukraine. Putin cannot help
18:41
but meddle, sometimes militarily, sometimes through using influence in other countries in a
18:47
way which is not good for this world. It's not good for freedom or
18:51
democracy. And so we do condemn that influence and we very much encourage people
18:57
to resist that fluence from Russia. I think they should, not least because
19:03
you know, you know, Putin has demonstrated and not least in Georgia that
19:07
he's not good for the world and not good for his neighbors. So we
19:18
quote very much encouraged the people of Georgia to resist. On the street.
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That has to mean, doesn't it. Here is some peaceful resistance, some
19:26
extremely media savvy signs calling the Georgian Dream Parties members of Parliament judas because they
19:32
only took a minute to pass the vote. Here is a kind of representative
19:37
still image or two that I took of the very student heavy crowd who've come
19:41
out in EU and Ukraine colors and in the posh parts of town you see
19:45
them all festoued with their EU flags. One school child I saw had been
19:49
clearly wearing the EU flag that she got for Europe Day a week ago as
19:53
a kind of cap all week around her book bag, and you know,
19:56
by Friday was still doing so when I saw her. So that there is
20:00
a lot of skew towards this. This is fair enough, this is singing
20:03
Ode to Joy on May the ninth, and all very fun. But there
20:07
are some, you know, more extreme examples. So here up against the
20:11
barricades that the police put up at Parliament, you saw people doing this,
20:15
at least nominally in the name of the European Union, ramming the police with
20:22
barricades, and you saw, of course that the police had to do something
20:25
about this, so they went out to nab the main protagonists, and of
20:29
course there was lots of jeering because it was zoomed in as if this was
20:33
a random act of brutality, but it was an assault on the precinct of
20:37
Parliament. I don't think that would be tolerated in many countries. And I
20:40
stress just a couple of hundred yards from here, the vast majority, even
20:42
of downtown, let alone the rest of the BIDC, is getting on with
20:45
normal life and preferring to go about its business unconcerned. There's a widespread feeling
20:51
that these mainly young people are deluded and will not get anywhere, although the
20:56
Georgian Dream Party is not very popular into Bilc itself. Just to wrap up,
21:00
then, a couple more images we've got. This is the kind of
21:03
police show of force that you see, but it's very very localized. Here
21:07
is some jesting by the protester side. They're getting on Reddit will they would,
21:11
it's a Western social media firm, and they have got a meme where
21:15
they're claiming that the George in Parliament is up for sale or for rent for
21:19
eighty three lari a month, probably a reference to the number of MPs that
21:23
voted for the act. During previous readings of the bill, we saw scenes
21:27
like this inside the Georgian Parliament. And then just finally, because I'm over
21:56
time on this segment to point out that again those fluent English on social media
22:02
have been getting on Georgia threads and saying, I think it's time for us
22:06
to come out on the street. They're doing what Grant Chaps wants them to
22:07
do. Should we wait? We can't wait till the election in November,
22:11
because they'll be rigged, kind of preempting the democratic process. And this one
22:15
is probably a national provocateur claiming to be a Ukrainian veteran my Dan protester who's
22:21
now saying to his George and brothers, come on, it's time to get
22:23
heavy with the Russians. Block the military road to Russia. It's your last
22:26
chance. And many people replied your atroll, even on the pro protest side.
22:32
So we'll try to unpack this more in extra time. But I hope
22:34
I've sketched that a small minority of the country is really up in arms about
22:40
the Foreign Agents bill, and the vast majority think there probably is a reason
22:44
for it, even if they don't like the part of the governing party much.
22:48
Brilliant Alex, thank you very much for that. Now let me welcome
22:51
Vanessa to the program and give us an update. Vanessa on Rafa. Yeah,
22:59
hideousness for Palestinians in Gaza continues. And now of course in Rafa,
23:07
which was considered to be the safe area for the refugees from the north and
23:14
the central areas of Garda to gather, but it has been targeted heavily by
23:22
Israel in the last few weeks. Despite the shuffling around of Blincoln and the
23:27
head of the CIA, etc. Claimed by the United Nations that four hundred
23:33
and fifty thousand refugees has now left Rafa to other areas of Garga. I'm
23:37
being told by friends of mine that that's even closer to seven hundred and fifty
23:41
thousand, for three quarters of the one million that were taking shelter in Rafa.
23:48
Ground incrosion from heavy fighting continues to be reported in eastern Rusa as well
23:52
as Garza City, andre Ballia. The refugee camp basically Israel is formbing pretty
23:59
much every wearing Gaza right now. These are just some of the images of
24:03
people already multiple times displaced, moving from Rapha. And if we can just
24:10
show the video of them basically arriving in the corn Unis area, which is
24:15
where Israel advised them to go. I mean it should be pointed out that
25:06
Kun Yunis is basically destroyed. There are very few medical centers or hospitals still
25:12
operational there. There's no electricity and water, so people are being pushed into
25:18
rubble effectively from Rafa. These are images of the Israeli occupation forces occupying the
25:27
Rafa crossing now on the left that appears to be on the Gaza side.
25:33
On the right, I haven't confirmed it yet, but to me, from
25:37
my memory of being inside that crossing, it looks very much like the Egyptian
25:41
side, which would mean that there is some collaboration between Egypt and Israel in
25:48
the containment of Palestinians inside Gaza. And in fact, this meme or cartoon
25:55
has been circulating, and if we actually watch a recent video of Egyptian forces
26:00
attacking a young man from Gaza who attempted to escape without paying the five thousand
26:07
dollars that Egypt is demanding. Egypt has made millions from allowing Gazan refugees to
26:15
leave to Egypt and then only giving them a three month visa with no work
26:22
permit, and at the end of that three months, nobody is sure what
26:26
will happen to those refugees that have already left Gaza, or whether they will
26:30
be forced to go back to Gaza, because there is there is there are
26:34
rumors that Egypt will not renew the visas. So let's just have a look
26:38
at the video of the Egyptian army beating up this young Palestinian and then as
27:03
evidence of the indoctrination of even children in the occupied territories, these are Zionist
27:12
settler children destroying humanitarian aids that were supposed to be sent from Israel into Gaza.
27:22
And in fact what's happening is that Nata Yahoo is apparently organizing buses to
27:27
take these demonstrators to the various crossing points where they prevent the entry of humanitarian
27:33
aids. So any propaganda that is being put out by Israel claiming that they
27:40
are sending humanitarian aid in is false. So if we can just play the
27:45
video of the children, Vanessa just very quickly, whenever you sent that video
28:26
to us earlier on Kenny then went and had a look at the situation and
28:30
was finding just loads of videos from different situations very similar. So this is
28:36
not a sort of localized incident, no, And in fact, if people
28:41
want to check out the live report by Jeremy Lofredo, which is on YouTube,
28:47
when he actually invents himself with the Zion effectlers while they go to prevent
28:52
a humanitarian aid entry into Graza. It's a shocking and horrifying life. I
29:00
recommend everybody watch it. And of course, so what has happened now is
29:04
that gardens are completely enclosed inside Garda under math, bombing, shelling, shelling
29:14
from the sea, from the air, from the land, and of course
29:18
guess what we've been talking about all the time. The only exit point now
29:22
is the US alleged humanitarian port. So the kind of the idea that this
29:32
will be used to the port those gardens that survive this operation by Israel is
29:41
correct in my opinion. Yes, okay, thank you very much for that,
29:45
Vanessa. No, we'll just move on there we go. So if
29:52
you like what the UK column does, you'd like to support us, please
29:55
head over the support dot UK column dot org. The options to help a
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the various platforms. Now, many people have been writing in to say why
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where are you on Facebook? Well, it looks like we're not on Facebook
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anymore. I think the page is still up, but we have no access
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to it. I have no explanation as to why, and every effort to
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get access to it is apparently blocked by Facebook. I'm receiving messages from them
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saying we can't help sorry. So it looks like that Facebook page is gone.
30:30
We may have to set up a different one. We'll keep everybody posted.
30:33
Don't forget not on the list. There is our telegram account, so
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look for UK Column on Telegram and you'll find us there. If you would
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like to pick up something from the UK Column shop, you can do.
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There's plenty there to have a look at. Now very quickly, Alex.
30:49
The second part of the interview with Yuri Rosco goes out tomorrow. Yes,
30:56
I went off to Moldova, a country with many similarities to Georgia as a
31:00
former Soviet republic and a very poor and small one at that, and he
31:03
speaks largely about his political career in part one, which is up on the
31:07
front page of the website. In the second part, he becomes more of
31:11
a campaigner against the things that the West wants to do to countries like Moldova
31:15
and listen particularly carefully tomorrow. In part two to what he says about resisting
31:22
American and German and EU efforts to force his small country to become a federation,
31:26
because that's something that we'll be discovering in a moment is also being foisted
31:30
on the Caucasian countries Georgia and Armenia by the pro EU protesters. Okay,
31:34
thank you for that, Alex. And a quick reminder that on Sunday will
31:38
be holding in symposium on behalf of veter National Center for nine to eleven Justice
31:44
entitled from National Security to Biosecurity and Merril Nas and madver Seti will be speaking,
31:51
Doctor o'neils Harratt will also be speaking doctor Pirot Robins and so do join
31:55
us for that at six pm. So the timings on that are US time
32:00
PM at start six and two eight or so, So join us for that
32:04
if you can. Now where does that take us? Just wanted very briefly
32:08
mention David McBride, whistleblower in Australia, military lawyer and whistlebluw on re released
32:15
documentary, probably wasn't permitted to under normal circumstances, but the whistleblower rules in
32:22
Australia are so weak that he has now been sentenced to five years eight months
32:25
in prison with no parole available to him until two years three months into his
32:30
term. So he released Well, the comment on the tweet here is he
32:36
was the first person yailed in relation to war crimes in Australia, but for
32:38
revealing them, not committing them. So I just wanted to very quickly highlight
32:45
that situation and we'll no doubt have more on that in due course. Now,
32:50
Alex, let's move on to Armenia. It's a two for Mike.
32:57
It's the first time in a quarter of a century been close tabs on both
33:00
of these neighboring countries former Soviet republics in the Caucasus, that they've both come
33:05
to the boil at the same time. Some similarities. We can go into
33:08
more of the nuances in extra time again. But what's happened this time is
33:13
following last year's loss of an extra territorial exclave of ethnic Armenians in Azerbaijan called
33:21
Nakorno Karabach or Artsach, and the absorption of over one hundred thousand refugees from
33:25
there into Armenia, which doesn't really want to keep them. The government doesn't
33:29
there's been huge social strain. Azerbaijan, an oil rich dictatorship, has been
33:32
pushing now for Armenia to concede some of its border territory in the triborder area
33:38
not far down the road from here between Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan. Some
33:42
border villages in the Soviet era were not marked on the map as part of
33:45
the Armenian Socialists Soviet Republic, and the government of Prime Minister Nicol Pashinnan has
33:51
now agreed in a demarcation exercise as part of a peace suit with Azerbaijan to
33:55
hand them over. Residents of those border villages in the district or the province
34:00
of Tabush got together with their local archbishop Bagart gulstan Jan and marched on the
34:06
capital Yerevan. So Freedom Square Yerevan and Freedom Square to b DC are both
34:09
full of rioters and have been for the last few days. I won't cover
34:14
it in as much detail as Georgia, but we'll see now a few seconds
34:16
of the war dance called the Yarkushta, which was danced by students dissenting against
34:22
the government of Pashnyan and welcoming in these marchers from the northeast. When they
34:27
turned up in Yerevan, they were apparently threatened with suspension for this show of
34:30
support, but that was later revoked. So here they are dancing or beating
34:35
the literal war drums. Not everyone, even among the opposition in Armenia would
35:04
like Archbishop Bagrat Galstagnan, because he has now stood in Republic Square, the
35:07
other main square there in Yerevan, and said he wants to form a transitional
35:12
government. Some of his supporters literally walked out on him for that, because
35:15
they thought this was a ploy to create an insurrection. Meanwhile, though,
35:21
the Armenian Prime minister who's causing all these ruptions, has been off in not
35:25
so sunny Copenhagen, where under the chairmanship of the Dane who used to be
35:30
not just Danish Prime Minister but also Secretary General of NATO and Rosmussen, he
35:37
was interviewed. We'll hear a clip in a moment. So Rosmussen took the
35:39
stage here on the second day of the Copenhagen Democracy Summit under the slogan dictators
35:45
need not apply and the YouTube speech and the whole day will be in the
35:51
show notes. What did Rosmussen have to say? Well, that is usefully
35:54
taken apart by an excellent blogger that'll be in the show notes too, called
35:59
money Circus based here in BILLC a British expatriate, and looking at what Rasmussen
36:04
said in this moment of doubt for Armenian stability, he says, what a
36:09
suitable venue this was held in the Royal Danish Playhouse. He quotes Rasmussen as
36:14
saying, Armenia is a democracy in an incredibly difficult neighborhood Europe. He means
36:19
the EU and NATO, I think must do all it can to support Armenia's
36:23
democracy and geopolitical pivot. And he's talking about Rasmussen as a third rate politician,
36:30
so thet's nakedly hear the suggestion that if the EU and US don't like
36:35
what is happening in Georgia, they sanction the governing politicians and they just flip
36:40
to Armenia. And as a result of that, you know, you will
36:45
get the oil flowing through Armenia probably instead of Georgia, and Georgians no longer
36:50
being given the carrot of nice access to the EU. He goes on to
36:55
talk about Rasmussen as really wanting to say, roll up roller for the war
37:00
and surrounding Russia with prickly little troublemakers. And he says deeper down is the
37:05
giveaway that the Georgian opposition here not in Armenia, says that they want a
37:08
decentralized Georgia. Now, both of these countries have very roughly the population and
37:14
area of something like Ireland, you know, so trying to make a federation
37:16
out of that, and Euriroshia will give the details in tomorrow's part two is
37:21
a recipe for disaster. You're always going to get some regions, regions which
37:24
go with the pro Western camp and others that go with the pro Russian.
37:30
So Money Circus says that this will be breaking up even the smallest countries,
37:32
perhaps with the aim of creating hotspots and flashpoints, with the long term objective
37:37
of breaking up Russia. He then says, and perhaps we'll talk about this
37:40
in extra time with Vanessa, that it's exactly the same policy that the US
37:44
has pursued in Iraq and Syria, which is we'll hold on to part of
37:47
your country and create a very vibrant opposition there which wants to give natural resources
37:52
and human resources straight to the West. He says, if the country is
37:55
no longer entire, he's thinking here of Georgia Armenia now, but it's happen
38:00
to Syria already. It can't be retaken by a single leader, whether nationalist,
38:04
populist or otherwise. What did pashan Yan say on the stage yesterday in
38:07
Copenhagen. We'll have a listen now, So sorry for the lack of introduction
38:14
there. This is just the bridge there. This is what the Georgians on
38:20
the stage in Copenhagen we're talking about linked by money circus and they're all specialists
38:24
in changing hearts and mind. But when we'll now listen to pashan Yan talking
38:29
about EU, I apologize if the sound didn't come over very well in that
38:46
clip. That was a mistake. I didn't notice when I was queuing it
38:50
up. But he was asked, when would you like Armenia to join the
38:52
EU? He says right away this year and got a big ground of applause
38:55
for it. He's put in it as pashion Yan by saying that the Armenians
39:00
were probably somewhat responsible for the genocide that was brought upon them one hundred years
39:05
ago, and so that's been reported on even by Politicode. Now in the
39:07
EU, I apologize about the people behind me. I can't do anything about
39:10
that. And that is brought about a condemnation even by the Limkin Institute for
39:15
Genocide Prevention, which is suggesting that nashin Yan has really gone too far this
39:21
time again more in extra time if necessary. Yes, thank you, Alex,
39:25
and we will now move on back to the UK in a sense,
39:29
but also international affairs, because here's the littist from Chatham House. This was
39:35
published a few days ago. The UK should not reul ot send sending troops
39:38
to Ukraine despite Putin's nuclear threats. This is by a guy called Cure Giles,
39:44
and he is described as senior consulting fellow Russia and Eurasia program. But
39:50
of course we know the name kir Giles because he, of course was a
39:53
fairly central character with an integrity initiative, which is all about it if you
39:59
remember the promotion of anti Russian narratives. So perhaps we need to take this
40:04
particular piece in that context. So let's see what he's talking about. Backing
40:09
down in the face of Russian threats, he said, is the worst option.
40:13
The UK should join France and using what he's describing as strategic ambiguity.
40:17
The theater he's talking about here, the theater that Russia uses to sort of
40:22
promote the idea that it was under pressure in some way that was forced into
40:27
the special military operation. That theater was both diplomatic. With the British ambassador's
40:31
summoned to the Foreign Ministry in Russia, he said on Monday to warm of
40:35
retaliation and nuclear so he's wrapping up the nuclear threat here at Moscow, announced
40:42
that we'd be holding exercises involving tactical nuclear weapons in the near future to remind
40:45
the world of het again that it has them. And he said that Britain's
40:49
explicit endorsement of strikes into Russia, because Britain seems to be one of the
40:53
only countries that is supporting the idea of Ukraine striking into Russia Russian territory itself.
41:00
Britain's explicit endorsement of strikes into Russia could also have been presented as a
41:04
consequence for Russia's attacks against Europe and with the promise that more that would follow,
41:08
what's more explicitly allowing Ukraine to strike Russia with British weapons as well.
41:13
It's as its own opens up other possibilities for targeting, targeting Russia's ability to
41:17
wage war. So quite an incredible position to come from the Men think tank
41:24
within the British establishment, I suppose, Vanessa, I don't know if you've
41:30
got any thoughts on that, but if not, we'll we'll move on to
41:32
to what's happening, what's going to happen to Gaza next? Yeah, let's
41:39
move My thoughts are not very gathered after they trying to join on in the
41:46
beginning. Yes, okay, no problem, So yeah, let's move on
41:52
to Natanyahoo's estopian vision or post war gava. Now the report, the full
42:00
report that I've looked at in depth and actually translated. The PowerPoint presentation linked
42:08
to this report that was given to members of Metaiahu's administration back in December.
42:15
It was reported in the New York Times. It was also reported in Hebrew
42:21
media and in a number of other media in the West also, And basically
42:29
so it's talking about sharing power with Arab states Sickly, those that have normalized
42:36
relations with Israel or are on the verge of normalizing relations with Israel under the
42:42
Abraham Accords, that of course were introduced under the Trump administration. So the
42:46
vision basically is to go from the Gaza that has effectively been destroyed and decimated
42:53
by almost seven months of bombardment genocide by Israel into what you see on the
43:05
right hand side for me, this kind of Dubai Singapore type area, with
43:12
of course, if you see the gas exploration platforms off the coast of Gaza,
43:17
which of course is related to the Gaza gas reserves that Palestinians have never
43:23
been able to lay their hands on thanks to Israel. Now, the New
43:29
York Times analysis is, I have to say, a very clean version,
43:35
very superficial. What it actually says is that under the proposal, the Arab
43:38
Israeli Alliance, working with the US, would appoint the Garsen leaders, will
43:44
come onto what that actually means, to redevelop the devastated territory devastated by Israel,
43:50
overhaul its education system, will also come onto that and maintain order.
43:55
After between seven and ten years, the alliance would allow Garzen vote on whether
44:00
to be absorbed into United Palestinian administration that would govern in both Gaza and the
44:07
Israeli occupied West Bank. In the meantime, The plan suggests the Israeli military
44:13
could continue to operate inside Gaza so for the next ten years. Basically now,
44:17
I covered this report quite extensively at my sub stack. Basically, there
44:23
are three phases to the plan. First of all, to cleanse northern Gaza
44:29
or commercial plan, which is certainly not successful. And in the future Saudi
44:34
Arabia, UAE, Egypt, Bachrain, Jordan and Morocco will be given control
44:40
of humanitarian aid entering the Gaza stript, but only to safe areas. Now,
44:45
the safe areas are for selected Palestinians that basically abandon any kind of resistance
44:53
ideology and can be normalized with Israel again under the Abrahama Cords. Phase two
45:01
Israel to maintain overall security responsibility, which means military rule of pressure and apartheid
45:09
and imprisonment and torture and ritual abuse of Palestinians as we have seen for the
45:15
last seventy five years. Palacinians from Gaza will form the Rehabilitation Authority which will
45:22
manage the safe areas ghettos basically and ensure they are free of radical resistance ideology.
45:30
So comparisons were made in the report to the Marshall Plan, which of
45:34
course, in my opinion, should be ridiculed from taken in the context of
45:37
the protection and renaissance of Natism under us UK protection in the West since the
45:44
end of World War two and the final phase. The selected Palestinians will govern
45:49
areas of the Gaza enclave and will join the abraham A Cords. It is
45:53
expected that the Nazi elements in Natamiahu's coalition regime, such as Bengadeer and Snatrich,
46:02
will be opposed to any kind of Palestinian rule, even if you like
46:08
indoctrinated, reprogrammed Guardsian rules. Now you can freeze this and read what other
46:16
proposed advantages to these countries. So you have Israel, the United States,
46:23
United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Garzans as their claiming
46:31
and Morocco who are to be involved in this plan. However, many of
46:37
those countries are putting out sports denials of any involvements and incentives will be put
46:45
in front of the people who have been starved, bombs, decrived and terrified
46:51
on a twenty four to seven basis. Inside Gaza, of course, free
46:54
trade zones in Gaza and Alarish in the Sinai and Egypt trade with Europe for
47:00
US and Gulf States rail links, energy and regional infrastructure developments. However,
47:07
as I ask in my article, will the Palatines be allowed to leave their
47:12
so called space areas or will they continue to live in militarized and segregated ghettos
47:17
while all of this economy and trade goes on around them. The development of
47:22
the Gaza gas reservoirs will finally happen, but will be of no benefit to
47:28
Palestinians. Of course, solar fields are proposed in the Sinai which will provide
47:32
energy for regional desalination facilities after years of Israel bombing and destroying Gaza's desalin desalination
47:42
capabilities and depriving Gaza. If the energy to run the plants, electrical electric
47:47
vehicles will be manufactured in the northern Gaza strips. Factories will be established in
47:53
these areas and in the occupied territories neighboring Gaza. Raw materials will come from
48:00
Saudi Arabia and the Emirates. Cars coming off the production line will be shipped
48:04
to Europe from the Port at Lerres. The rebuilding of Gaza will require raw
48:09
materials and services from the Gulf States, which will create for them demand and
48:15
opportunities foreign investment. Another image of the proposed post war Gaza and from the
48:24
New York Times, a claim that the UAE and Saudi officials said that the
48:30
new proposal would not secure the involvement of Arab states like Saudi Arabia and the
48:36
UAE, particularly because it stopped short of guaranteeing Palestinian sovereignties and would permit continued
48:44
Israeli military operations inside Gaza. The Saudi government has that it will not normalize
48:51
sides with Israel unless Israeli leaders take irrevocable steps towards creating a Palestinian state.
48:58
However, this is an article in Foreign Policy from just after the Iranian attack
49:05
on Israel on April the thirteenth. Arab countries have Israel's back for their own
49:12
sake, so let's see what they're arguing in this artistical which actually I do
49:16
agree with. Last weekend, there was a lot of commentary on social media
49:22
and elsewhere expressing amazement at a new Middle East in which countries of the region
49:27
coordinated an effort to support Iran's attack on Israel's There is something to be said
49:34
for that, But what's more amazing when one takes a step back, is
49:37
that war has not actually changed the region that much. Regional governments still hate
49:43
and fear Iran. Harbor no particular commitments to Palas singing justice and wants good
49:49
relations with Israel and desire American leadership. And also to come back to that
49:54
idea of Gaza as a trade and economy Harb. Of course it would be
50:00
at the center of the IMEC, the Indian Little East European Corridor, which
50:07
we have discussed previously. So it's very clear from this and in my opinion,
50:13
these plans are not news. These plans were put together some time ago,
50:16
if not years ago, and Israel and the US and the normalized states
50:24
see an opportunity now to one result the Palestinian issue by giving Palestinian some degree
50:31
of space areas inside Gaza while building the Dubai of the future inside Gaza,
50:39
profiting from the gas and profiting from the position of Gaza geographically as an economic
50:45
and trade hub. So not let anything new. In my opinion, this
50:50
has been in the pipeline for years and now they're exploiting the genocide that is
50:57
ongoing in Gaza to lent the road map. Was there any indication Vanessa given
51:04
about when this PowerPoint presentation was delivered in that and I hope, because of
51:08
course, what springs to my mind is his General Assembly speech a couple of
51:12
months ago, which sort of came out of nowhere, and you know,
51:16
in fact it must be six months ago, and I sprang out of no
51:20
word and was completely out of context, it seems. So. Do you
51:24
think he had already been this had already been delivered to him at this stage?
51:30
Well, the plan was actually the PowerPoint presentation and the plan were given
51:36
to him in December. But I think it's likely that this plan was in
51:42
the pipeline for even longer than seven months. I think he gave that speech
51:45
at the un GA shortly before the seventh of October, if I remember correctly,
51:52
yes, And what he was actually talking about was the IMEC, the
51:57
Indian Middle Aged European Corridor. Really, all of this projects, in my
52:05
opinion, has been in the pipeline for a long time. What October the
52:08
seventh did was to give Israel the pretext and the justification to actually really start
52:15
the genocide and ethnic cleansing of ros Are in preparation for launching this project,
52:23
and I just wanted to get your thoughts on the involvement of other Arab countries
52:30
in this because you said that you think some countries or you've heard some people
52:36
countries absolutely denying their involvement in this. Is that Is that because they view
52:40
being the wrong time? Yeah, I think yes, it's you know,
52:45
they're playing a political game. I think for Saudi Arabia, UAE, buck
52:52
Brain and UA. Let's not forget it's been providing the land bridge to compensate
52:58
for the shutting down of shipping in the Red Sea by Yemen, and that
53:02
land bridge crosses through Saudi Arabia and Bushrain. We should also remember the Saudi
53:09
Jordanian money that's pouring into the Sinai for Egypt, the promises by the US
53:15
to give Egypt ten billions for effectively taking in Palestinian refugees, the millions that
53:22
have recently been given by the EUS to Egypt, the so called humanitarian aid
53:27
that has not been allowed in to grather. So there is a lot of
53:30
shuffling going around. But I think Saudi Arabia wants particularly wants to maintain the
53:37
optic of pushing for a Palestinian state. But I think further down the road,
53:42
what they may well do is say yes, but you know, we've
53:45
given gardand the opportunity to live in these state areas and to profit from the
53:51
economy and trade that we're building inside Gaza, provided they no longer adhere to
53:57
any kind of resistance ideology. Yeah, okay, thank you Vanessa for that.
54:01
Okay, let's come back to the UK then and well. Online Safety
54:07
and Well an event took place on Friday last week Internet and Society, the
54:13
trans Atlantic Research Future and dam Melanie Dawes from OFFCOM was speaking at it.
54:21
Let's have a look and see what she had to say. She's talking about
54:23
access rights to the data that lies behind social media operations and other big online
54:30
platforms need to be strengthened in Britain to allow experts to use the information.
54:35
So what she's saying is that, you know, there are algorithms operating,
54:40
but in the meantime, social media companies are gathering a whole host of data
54:45
which so called experts don't get access to. It's all commercially sensitive information or
54:52
stuff that would be sold by the platforms perhaps or used by the platforms themselves
54:59
with their own advertising capabilities and so on, but she wants access to it.
55:05
She wants academics to have access to it, and well does she also
55:07
want intelligence agencies to have access to it. That's not entirely clear at this
55:12
stage, but she went on to say offcom as try and build a more
55:15
data based way of measuring prevalence of types of harm for different types of users.
55:20
So she certainly wants to profile the types of information that's being shared in
55:25
social media and how that's being consumed by various types of users. And she
55:31
said, I would like as many researchers as possible to able to join us
55:36
in the job of working out what is happening and shining lights on things have
55:38
been under the bonnet behind closed doors. She said, there's a legal question
55:45
here about researchers access to data, which I think is the real potential groundbreaking
55:50
change here that would allow the broader research community essentially play on the data and
55:54
be able to shine a light on all of this. And of course what
55:58
she hinting at, well, there are data protection laws in place in this
56:01
country still, but perhaps not for very much longer. We've been talking about
56:06
this quite a bit over the last couple of weeks and years in fact,
56:08
but just to remind you, take two key pieces of legislation which we're mentioned
56:14
in the King's Speech in November last year. The first one being Investigary Power's
56:19
Amendment Bill which is now passed, so that is an act that allows the
56:24
gathering of Internet data, amongst other things. But also the Data Protection and
56:29
Digital Information Bill, And this is really the key one because I'm just I
56:34
know you've heard me read this out before, but it's worth just reminding everybody
56:37
what the long title of this bill is. So the short title is Data
56:39
Protection Digital Information Bill, which is consider the scale of this a bill to
56:45
make provision for the regulation of the processing of information related to identifying or identifiable
56:51
living individuals. To make provision about services consisting of the use of information to
56:55
ascertain and verify facts about individuals. To make provision about access to customer data
57:01
and business data. To make provision about privacy and electronic communications. To make
57:06
provision about services for the provision of electronic signatures, electronic seals and other trust
57:10
services. To make provision about the disclosure of information to improve public service delivery.
57:15
To make provision for the implementation of agreements on sharing information for law enforcement
57:20
purposes, to make provision about the keeping of and maintenance of registers of births
57:24
and deaths, to make provision about the information standards for health and social care,
57:29
to establish the Information Commission, to make provision about oversight of biometric data,
57:34
and for connected purposes. An alex just very quickly and be interested in
57:37
your thoughts, because that is such a wide ranging bill, and the one
57:42
thing that it doesn't specifically mention there but which is absolutely included is the sharing
57:46
of data with foreign countries, particularly the United States here. But it's such
57:52
a broad range of wide ranging bill. This is something people should really be
57:58
getting motivated about. It should. If you look at countries which are ahead
58:02
in the data digitization stakes, they don't have a single act doing this,
58:07
but they already do have a single app. Some European countries, some East
58:10
Asian countries, a number of African countries suddenly have the normalized expectation that you
58:16
go to a single smartphone app and deal with my government that way, and
58:21
all of what you read out is then done via the one bridge. But
58:24
as you say that that's the front end, you know that the back end
58:27
is what's done with all this data and can it behaved off? But people
58:30
might not be aware of that if they just think that it's a provision for
58:34
making their lives easier. Indeed, so let's just end with a little quote
58:38
from Meliney Doors from the BBC. I think this is BBC Breakfast a few
58:44
days ago. Let's have a listen to this. At the moment, teenagers,
58:49
younger children up and down the country can experience harmful content on their social
58:53
media feeds again and again, and this has become normalized and that has to
58:59
change. So we are demanding, in what we're saying today, proper age
59:02
checks so we know who younger people are. But of course if you've got
59:07
to have proper edge checks for younger people, that you're going to have to
59:12
have proper edge checks for adults as well, because how do you identify whether
59:15
somebody is a younger person or not. So we'll talk about a bit more
59:20
about that and extra Alex, let's just finish off with a couple of finalies.
59:25
Yes, the first ones from me and I thought this was a good
59:30
capture of the moment by stone Toss dot com. We have a kind of
59:34
a neo Marxist, maybe one of the agitators you see around in the West
59:37
these days, say actually, communism is about helping people, and enorm Me
59:42
is not convinced and says I disagree, and the first guy says, I
59:45
am going to ruin your life. Yes, okay, thank you, And
59:49
well, I wanted to put this on This is from Australians for a sang
59:52
and Scott of course, this new portrait of King Charles, the first portrait
59:57
of King Charles. They say, seemingly burning in health, not granting Julian
1:00:00
Assange a role party pardon, among infinite atrocities of the crime. And well,
1:00:07
I just wanted to put that in context with an absolutely fantastic little bit
1:00:12
of video which I'm quite sure most people will have seen already because it's going
1:00:17
viral on social media at the moment, from Oracle Films Films. But I
1:00:21
couldn't resist playing at that because this is the apparent unveiling of this portrait and
1:00:44
remarkable actually heard has turned out? Has it changed that much since you lost
1:00:47
it? And add the film the extra thanks, so no doubt we'll be
1:01:04
talking about that an extra as well, but absolutely excellent piece of work.
1:01:07
From Oracle and I suppose we might describe that as a deep fake, but
1:01:12
anyway, we will talk more about that later. Thank you to Vanessa and
1:01:15
Alex for joining me today. I hope everybody has enjoyed today's program. We're
1:01:20
back in a few minutes for UK column News Extra. If you aren't joining
1:01:24
us for that because you're not a member, please consider joining us. We
1:01:29
do need your support, but otherwise we'll see you for the interview tomorrow at
1:01:35
one pm and for the news on Friday. See then, Bye bye,