Latest / Ridiculous History / The Road to Modern Basketball, Part One: Naismith and "The Incorrigibles"

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The Road to Modern Basketball, Part One: Naismith and "The Incorrigibles" · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much
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  Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's have a shout out for our
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  Speaker 1: super producer, mister Max Williams.
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  Speaker 2: Hip to the hot that you're a little ball. I
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  Speaker 2: don't know what that was, but I'm talking about basketball.
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  Speaker 1: Nailed it, nailed it. I'm Ben your Noel. Noel, what
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  Speaker 1: do you think of when you think of basketball?
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  Speaker 3: Oh? I think of incorrigibles that I think of them,
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  Speaker 3: what cannot be tamed, you know, the spirit of sporting,
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  Speaker 3: chance and excitement and dribbling and hip. To top of
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  Speaker 3: the thing that Max said.
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  Speaker 1: I think of all my stubbed fingers because I play.
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  Speaker 1: I believe you wouldn't believe it because I'm not the
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  Speaker 1: world's tallest guy. But I was actually pretty good at
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  Speaker 1: basketball my younger days because I had I had a
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  Speaker 1: lot of fight in me.
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  Speaker 3: I think it's a misnomer that you have to be tall.
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  Speaker 3: It definitely makes you, gives you an edge, but I
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  Speaker 3: mean you can. Aren't there some like famous short shorties.
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  Speaker 2: Like short like Steph Curry Trey Young who are both
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  Speaker 2: taller than all three of us.
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  Speaker 1: And we'll talk about why. Right, we'll talk about why
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  Speaker 1: that happened along the way. This week, we're excited to
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  Speaker 1: explore the history of basketball. And guess what, folks, even
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  Speaker 1: if you're not a you know, a sports ball person,
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  Speaker 1: if you don't care too much about basketball, you're still
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  Speaker 1: gonna enjoy this. Noel and I were talking, there's some
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  Speaker 1: there's some ridiculousness.
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  Speaker 3: To say, your granddad's history of basketball, right right, And
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  Speaker 3: if unless your granddad was was a guy by the
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  Speaker 3: name of James Naysmith, Yeah, and so was born in
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  Speaker 3: the eighteen hundreds and born probably would be more like
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  Speaker 3: a great grand point great.
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  Speaker 1: So I want to thank James Nasmith for enabling a
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  Speaker 1: young Ben bowl in to you know, despite being short,
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  Speaker 1: I was like Spider Man doing parkour drunk. I was
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  Speaker 1: all over the place. You know, it's weird that I
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  Speaker 1: still have ten fingers. But thank you, James. Let's learn
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  Speaker 1: a little bit more about you, mister Nasmith. This is
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  Speaker 1: something we said right before we started recording. You kind
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  Speaker 1: of have to be a little bit eccentric to wake
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  Speaker 1: up one day and say I'm gonna make us sports.
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  Speaker 1: That's right.
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  Speaker 3: And by the way, no relation to Mike Naysmith from
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  Speaker 3: The Monkeys, who was also a little bit eccentric, true
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  Speaker 3: and maybe didn't invent a sport, but did single handedly
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  Speaker 3: invent rock and roll.
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  Speaker 1: Hey, hey, they're the Monkeys, that's true.
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  Speaker 3: They monkey around sometimes. I actually need to watch that show.
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  Speaker 3: So there's a podcast that I really like call with
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  Speaker 3: Gorley and Rush. They talk about gently talk about horror movies,
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  Speaker 3: and they were saying how some of The Monkeys' sketches
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  Speaker 3: in their TV show are like Tim and Eric level
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  Speaker 3: weird and absurd. Yes, and I I need that in
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  Speaker 3: my life. And actually, I think the Monkeys get unfairly
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  Speaker 3: maligned as sort of this like fake band, but they
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  Speaker 3: actually had some really good tunes as well.
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  Speaker 1: I feel like it's so easy to criticize something when
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  Speaker 1: you're not making something as well, you know what I mean,
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  Speaker 1: Like I'm a Believer is a bop.
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  Speaker 3: But even some of their deeper cuts, and there's some
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  Speaker 3: of their albums that are like a little more experimental anyway,
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  Speaker 3: again different Nasmith spelled differently even not sure why I
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  Speaker 3: brought it up. Now I know why, because we're fans
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  Speaker 3: of Tangents here on Ridiculous systems.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, Last Train to Clarksville. I you know, I love people.
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  Speaker 3: The Kinks.
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  Speaker 1: They they did Last Train in Clarksville. The Monkeys did well.
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  Speaker 1: The Kinks do. The Kinks do it. Maybe it's a cover.
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  Speaker 1: I didn't think I didn't think it was. Yeah, Last
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  Speaker 1: Train in Clarksville is by the Monkeys.
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  Speaker 3: Really, Kinks do a great Last Train to Clarksville. Nice,
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  Speaker 3: very cool.
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  Speaker 1: It's I mean, everybody loves It's a bop. I had,
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  Speaker 1: really I had a parody version of it. I would
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  Speaker 1: play called Last Train to Hateville and it was about
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  Speaker 1: being late to the airport anyway. That's where the airport
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  Speaker 1: is here in Atlanta, Georgia, and I'll bring us back
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  Speaker 1: from the Tangent. Sorry, I'm idiot.
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  Speaker 3: The Kinks did not do Last trin the clark so
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  Speaker 3: they get a song called Last of the Steam Powered Trains.
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  Speaker 3: We need to make a train train related guys.
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  Speaker 1: This is going to be a weird couple of weeks
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  Speaker 1: for us because we're we've got announcements, we've got some housekeeping.
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  Speaker 1: Noll your head into Detroit, max your head now in October.
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  Speaker 1: I'm heading somewhere in October. And then before that we're
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: we're hitting Vegas, hitting the strip.
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  Speaker 3: We're hitting the strip. We're gonna fear and loathe our
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  Speaker 3: way through that city of lights.
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  Speaker 1: At our boss beat me here, Max, our boss can
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  Speaker 1: keeps roasting me for being excited about seeing the Hoover
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  Speaker 1: dam Anyway, whatever, it's a marvel of engineering, it really is.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, I wish I could come to
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  Speaker 2: be that company with you, because I'm assuming you're going
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  Speaker 2: by yourself, right, Ben, I.
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  Speaker 1: Rented a car. I think it'll be a thig where
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  Speaker 1: we'll see who wants to come. I want to come. Yeah, yeah, okay, awesome, Yes,
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  Speaker 1: then please come. Damn me up, fam. That's okay. That
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  Speaker 1: explains that text message. Okay, it was about the whover
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  Speaker 1: NIS was okay. So this is an epic tangent for us,
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  Speaker 1: but we've got a lot of stuff going on worth it, man,
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  Speaker 1: you think I think you know.
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  Speaker 3: You come for the history, you stay for the Tangents,
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  Speaker 3: or you leave in a fit of rage for the Tangents.
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  Speaker 1: Take the last train to Tangents exactly.
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  Speaker 3: So.
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  Speaker 1: James Naysmith, he's a guy. Yeah that that.
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  Speaker 3: James Naysmith was a real kooky character. He was a
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  Speaker 3: second year grad student who was essentially put in charge
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  Speaker 3: of a physical education program.
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  Speaker 1: Before this was like a thing.
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  Speaker 3: I don't even think they called it kinesiology at the time.
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  Speaker 3: That was like sort of when I learned about that,
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  Speaker 3: I guess health class whatever. They always called it. The
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  Speaker 3: study of kinesiology, I think is named after like the
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  Speaker 3: the Father of of health, which isn't which isn't God. Surprisingly,
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  Speaker 3: it's it's some some dude named Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, he's basically pee teacher, that's right, right, is a
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  Speaker 1: younger pee teacher and another teacher, one of his colleagues,
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  Speaker 1: was saying, you know, we've got an issue here, Jimmy,
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  Speaker 1: which is, you know, you can have the kids out
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  Speaker 1: running in circles or you know, frolicking when it's warm
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  Speaker 1: outside during the summer in the autumn of the spring,
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  Speaker 1: but we need a game to keep them active in
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  Speaker 1: the winter months. Now, James, being a Canadian, he's about
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  Speaker 1: thirty years old now, he's familiar with sports that are
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  Speaker 1: popular in Canada. He's familiar with cold weather, and so
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  Speaker 1: he says, all right, I'm gonna take a little bit
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  Speaker 1: from rugby, a little bit of lacrosse, and then a
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  Speaker 1: little bit from a game that I've never heard of
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  Speaker 1: duck on a rock? Duck on a rock? Have you
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  Speaker 1: heard of this? No?
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  Speaker 3: I assume it's like dope on a rope, which is
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  Speaker 3: also a real game. I just make a King of
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  Speaker 3: the hill duck on a rock. Maybe it does sound
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  Speaker 3: like you push somebody off.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so cast your memory back there, folks. It's the
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  Speaker 1: winter of eighteen ninety one. There's a gymnasium there at
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  Speaker 1: Springfield College. Then it was called the International YMCA Training School,
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  Speaker 1: and it's located in Springfield, Massachusetts. The college kids are
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  Speaker 1: getting restless. The way they describe these kids in winter
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  Speaker 1: makes me think of livestock that you have to put
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  Speaker 1: in a barn exactly, And like the horses are wickering
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  Speaker 1: and the cows are looking around and mooing or lowing restlessly.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I love a good lowing. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: and also really quickly.
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  Speaker 3: I don't think we mentioned this, but looking at images
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  Speaker 3: of this dude, this guy looks like the kind of
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  Speaker 3: you know, fellow you'd see in the halls of Congress,
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  Speaker 3: or something like a portrait of like a scholarly gentleman
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  Speaker 3: whizzen do you know, with circular eyeglasses and a quafft mustache,
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  Speaker 3: you know, doesn't look like a guy that invented a game,
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  Speaker 3: that became a purveyor of culture, you know, I mean,
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  Speaker 3: it's kind of he doesn't look like that kind of cat.
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  Speaker 1: No, he looks like he has weirdly specific opinions on
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  Speaker 1: the fall of the Ottoman Empire and like prices of
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  Speaker 1: silver futures. Agreed. He he. I don't want to say nerd, right,
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  Speaker 1: we're very pro nerd here, but I agree with you know,
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  Speaker 1: he looks like he's in Congress.
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  Speaker 3: Wizzened, wizened and wizardly. Wizardly indeed, but he You're right,
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  Speaker 3: these these restless youths, they they need to be tamped down.
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  Speaker 3: They're they're wild urges are just out of control, you know,
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  Speaker 3: they're they've got cabin fever. And this guy, this size,
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  Speaker 3: I think he's sort of challenged by a fellow, a colleague,
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  Speaker 3: you know, to like, why don't you figure out a
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  Speaker 3: way to occupy these these kids?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I the way that we're describing it with
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  Speaker 1: restlessness and pent up energy, I want to picture the
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  Speaker 1: invention of basketball as some kind of action thriller. So
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  Speaker 1: instead of a colleague saying, hey, let's figure this out,
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  Speaker 1: I want someone bursting in the door and saying, damn it, James,
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  Speaker 1: this is a ticking time bos.
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  Speaker 3: Something has to be done. Their hormones are raging. So
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  Speaker 3: in the winter of eighteen ninety one to eighteen ninety
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  Speaker 3: two in Springfield College, as you mentioned at the time
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  Speaker 3: it was known as the International YMCA Training School, Nasmith
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  Speaker 3: decided to take on this challenge and he spoke to
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  Speaker 3: a kindly janitor member of the janitorial staff, and requested
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  Speaker 3: that he go out and seek something that he could
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  Speaker 3: use as goals. I think he asked for boxes, right initially,
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  Speaker 3: some sort of perhaps shipping type container, you know, from
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  Speaker 3: a fruit market or something like that. He couldn't find
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  Speaker 3: any boxes, but he did find some baskets boxketball does
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  Speaker 3: not have the same ring as basketball, or maybe it
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  Speaker 3: would have been called box ball. Isn't it just funny though?
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  Speaker 3: How maybe he would have found his way to the
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  Speaker 3: baskets eventually. But one based on this, you know, kind
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  Speaker 3: of serendipitous situation, one kind of tends to think that
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  Speaker 3: this was a little bit arbitrary.
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  Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, it could have been any kind of container,
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  Speaker 1: which I agree is pretty interesting. And also I want
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  Speaker 1: to point out that the gymnasium class at the time
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  Speaker 1: it was not like your pe classes today. One of
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  Speaker 1: their activities was marching, which just seems so weirdly militaristic.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, like you guys never played in
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  Speaker 2: marching and like elementary school, like he played marching.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like you. March's like that I had
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  Speaker 1: to do. I had to do marching because I was
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  Speaker 1: in a pretty fascist, pro military Boy Scouts troop. But wow,
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  Speaker 1: you mean the boy Scouts, I I lucked out. You
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: get you get one or two. You either get the
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  Speaker 1: really hardcore let's train you for the revolution troops, right,
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  Speaker 1: or you get the other ones. So I'm happy that
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  Speaker 1: I ended up with the very weird revolutionaries.
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  Speaker 3: I always think of that money Python bit from the
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  Speaker 3: Meaning of Life where they're like running drills at some
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  Speaker 3: sort of military training facility and he's like marching up
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  Speaker 3: and down the squad. No good enough for you, you know, now,
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  Speaker 3: don't stand that gulping like you've never seen the end
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  Speaker 3: of gold before.
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  Speaker 1: And yes, we know, marching band is a thing, folks.
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  Speaker 1: Marching band is also a thing that reminds me, guys,
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  Speaker 1: this this will be one of my last tangents for this.
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  Speaker 1: I know there's a two part episode for us. Anyhow
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  Speaker 1: do you know about the battle of bands here in Atlanta.
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  Speaker 3: I know about the concept of Battle of the bands,
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  Speaker 3: but this is like a like a marching band battle.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. So all the all the best college marching bands
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  Speaker 1: get together at the stadium in town.
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  Speaker 3: And they just serve each other, right, yeah, yeah, it's
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  Speaker 3: like it's like, uh, dancing up at each other cheerleader film.
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  Speaker 1: Well, there was the dristin dunk, isn't it, Gabrielle, get
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  Speaker 1: it on, Light it up?
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  Speaker 2: Do?
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  Speaker 3: The thing you got served was the dancing one. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: so there's that, but it's also and then there was
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  Speaker 3: drum line, which was, you know.
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  Speaker 1: Bring it up, bring it up. I was close, you
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  Speaker 1: were very close. That's kind of a vague title anyhow,
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  Speaker 1: But but yes, you guys, let's go to the Battle
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  Speaker 1: of the bands. I swear it's such a fun time.
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  Speaker 2: Oh can I jump in with a tangent? Yeah, if
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  Speaker 2: you were in marching band, what instrument are you playing?
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  Speaker 1: What do you mean, like, hypothetically, Yeah, hypothetically? Which one
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  Speaker 1: would you? Soon? Baby? Soon?
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  Speaker 2: No?
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  Speaker 1: I have no amber.
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  Speaker 3: Sure, I cannot play any except a drum. I could
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  Speaker 3: play a drum, but those would be heavy, because drums
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  Speaker 3: are like the coolest ones too.
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  Speaker 1: I would either go drums or I want to. I
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  Speaker 1: can't even remember the proper name for him, but the
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  Speaker 1: dude who just has the cane, there's no drum major.
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  Speaker 2: The drum major, Yeah, I can't believe all say so,
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  Speaker 2: I want to be the guy who's inside the tuba,
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  Speaker 2: the person I want to be that guy.
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  Speaker 3: I think that's actually called a susophone.
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  Speaker 1: Susophone nice yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Invented by John Phillips, SUSA, another weirdo composer, inventor, polymath,
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  Speaker 3: much like the guy who were supposed to be talking
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  Speaker 3: about that, James Naysmith.
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  Speaker 1: So he does the thing, gets these peach baskets as well.
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  Speaker 3: They are right, you know, woven, kind of wickery peach baskets.
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  Speaker 3: This is the late eighteen hundred, so they probably had
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  Speaker 3: a different vibe than maybe what we're used to. But
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  Speaker 3: he then attached them to like the kind of opposing
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  Speaker 3: balconies in this open you know gym where there's I
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: guess you know, think of like a high school gym
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  Speaker 3: with there's maybe a walking track around the top, something
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  Speaker 3: approaching that, and then he's like, huh, well, I can't
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  Speaker 3: have a game without some rules. So he started to
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: kind of brainstorm as to what he rules he would
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  Speaker 3: impose on those games. At this point, all he had
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  Speaker 3: were these baskets, very organic. He really just kind of
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  Speaker 3: was going by the seat of his pants. He got
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  Speaker 3: to give him props for that. He realizes though, that
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  Speaker 3: an important facet of what he's trying to accomplish is
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  Speaker 3: to have a game that is simple enough to understand, uh,
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  Speaker 3: complex enough to be interesting, and doesn't involve punches and
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  Speaker 3: kicks and karate chops, you know, like rugby and other
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  Speaker 3: more rough and tumble type sports.
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  Speaker 1: And they can't be like a one on one or
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  Speaker 1: two or two thing like tennis. You have to accommodate
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  Speaker 1: the entire class. So the kids need to be running
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  Speaker 1: around and they exercises another important fast right, the callous
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  Speaker 1: That is part of what he's teaching. And so he
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  Speaker 1: divides these kids into teams of nine and he tells
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  Speaker 1: each team, look, you got two teams. He got one ball.
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  Speaker 1: I'm gonna blow this whistle and then you will. One
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  Speaker 1: starting team gets the ball. You try to put it
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  Speaker 1: in the other team's basket. You know, if you're one
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  Speaker 1: of the kids who is I feel like he took
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  Speaker 1: the kids, the two least fit kids, and said, you
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  Speaker 1: guys stand at the balcony, and when the ball goes
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  Speaker 1: in the basket, your job is to take it out
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  Speaker 1: of the basket. So you're still participating, right. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So, and also, this is not the basketball that we
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  Speaker 3: think of today, where there's you know, the ball comes through.
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  Speaker 1: You go No, it just goes, it goes in. They
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: didn't figure out cutting off the bottom.
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  Speaker 3: They didn't figure that out yet. They hadn't gotten there yet. Ye.
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  Speaker 3: But his epiphany comes when he realizes that there's a
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  Speaker 3: very important rule that will sort of take care of
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  Speaker 3: the non violent aspect of it, which is that you
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  Speaker 3: can't move with the ball. That's right, you can't run
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  Speaker 3: with the ball. I mean, I believe they call that
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  Speaker 3: traveling or like holding or something like that.
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  Speaker 1: It's yeah, you get a ballance.
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  Speaker 3: But this original basketball barely resembles what we know today
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  Speaker 3: as basketball. We're going to get to that. Yeah, it
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  Speaker 3: is still I believe you can't hold the ball and move.
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  Speaker 3: You have to burst the ball the ball, but still
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  Speaker 3: kind of a lot of contact in modern basketball, but
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  Speaker 3: it does still seem safer than football.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, you're less likely to have suffer the long
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  Speaker 1: term consequences of a concussion.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, dramatic brain injury.
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  Speaker 1: And if you're watching basketball, you're less likely to lose
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: hours of your life sitting through commercials. Which is why
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: football is football. American football at least is still mainly
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: just popular in the US.
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  Speaker 3: It's because it gives so much opportunity for advertising.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean a lot of people just watch the
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Super Bowl for the halftime show.
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  Speaker 2: If you guys hear about the new rule in college football,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: what's that outside?
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Like the two minute warning? Are they putting in guns?
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  Speaker 3: No?
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: If the first down, they just run the clock to
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: make the actual game shorter, so they put more commercials in.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: That's ridiculous because everyone's complaining about how long college football
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: games have gotten. So instead of taking more commercials ou
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: because the NFL took more commercials out a couple of
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: years ago, college is just making the game shorter.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: This is why I'm glad.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: I don't like sports, but I do think basketball is energy,
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: is entertaining and enjoyable to watch.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed, And there are there are some examples of
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: modern myth making here. I didn't know this going in,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: but there are two very different accounts of the first
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: basketball game. And one of them it goes off fine,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: you know, and they're all learning together kumbay a hands
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: across America kind of stuff. In the other one, people
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: almost murder each other. So you want to do the
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: murder one.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: First, obviously. Yeah, it basically devolves into a brawl because again,
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: the rules are kind of fluid at this point, right,
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: and they don't quite get it, and people are just
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: used to going around slapping balls out of people's hands,
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: you know, being a little more aggressive. After all, these
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: are these are described as a group of incorrigible youths.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: By nay Smith himself. Yeah, in nineteen thirty nine, he's
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: talking about this on a radio show called We the People.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Radio is sort of the first podcast and it's the
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: only known recording of James Naysmith's voice. He's seventy seven
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: at the time, and he tells the studio audience basically
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: he makes it sound like these were the lost boys
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: from Peter Pash Or like Lord of the Flies type stuff.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: He says, you know, like you pointed out, He says,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: I had to tame this class of incorrigibles, and the
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: show's host, the interviewer Gabriel Heater. She says, what rules
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: did you have for your new game, doctor Naysmith, and
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: his response is epic.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he did as we said. He they were
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: a little fluid. He didn't have enough, he said, And
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: that's where I made my big mistake. The boys began tackling, kicking,
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: and punching, karate chopping. I added that part. They ended
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: up in a free for all in the middle of
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: the gym floor. Before I could pull them apart. One
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: boy was knocked out. Several of them had black eyes,
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: and one had a dislocated shoulder. Dude, that's wild. It
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: takes a lot to dislocate somebody's shoulder. That's not like
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: a minor injury. That's serious.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: They've been pent up all winter. I guess how did
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: he let this get so out of hands? He concludes,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: it certainly was murder. After that first match, I thought
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: they'd kill each other, but they kept nagging me to
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: let them play again. And I tell you what. In
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: that version of the story, the reason they're nagging him
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: is because they wanted to settle some scores. Sure, that's
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: what happened. It was it was evolving into a uh
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: into a group brawl. And so he says, okay, look
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: like you point out. He says, I added some more rules.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Basketball became a fine clean sport, good clean fun, good clean.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Hoh some fun. And then he says, I guess it
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: just goes to show what you can do if you
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: have to. And the audience burst into applause. Max come
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: to the braw Brah yeah and then ah yeah, perfect,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: and orchestra plays him out the golden days of radio.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: I love that stuff.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: But like they used to literally have radio orc stress.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: You know, that was a whole thing. I still have.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: I still have an old collection of some of those.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: This is maybe a very Southern thing, but we got
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: this place called Cracker Barrel here in the South, and
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Cracker Barrel is famous. It's technically a restaurant, but it's
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: less famous for its food and more famous for its
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: very weird general store. Country store. The country store, yeah,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: where they sell collections of old timey radio tracks.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: They do sell those kinds of things, and they also
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: sell chochkeys and and drinking wooden puzzle, little wooden puzzles
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: and like the thing with the with the golf tees.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: But my favorite I was I was at the cracker
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: barrel recently on the way back from a trip to
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: the beach, and they were selling all kinds of like
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: Halloween themed things that could very easily be misconstrued as satanic,
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: a little bit satany.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Wow, they sell alcohol now I heard about that. Wow,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: since they did that.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: But you know, things change sure as this boy, these
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: these segues as did the story around the first game
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: of basketball, and we often know that. You know, sometimes
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: when you approve a writer to do your memoir, you
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: know they might you might give them access in exchange
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: for them writing a favorable account, you know, of your life.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: Like what's happened with this Elon Musk book that just
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: came out. Apparently the writer has already retracted the way
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: he characterized Elon shutting down these Starlink satellites. You know
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: that we're supposed to aid the Ukraine in that conflict.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: He basically came out and said that the way he
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: wrote it in the book was a mistake. And he's
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: always kind of had a history of being a little
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: cow twy to mister Musk as opposed to like this
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: this being a tellof so one could imagine there's a
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: similar situation with mister Nasmith because the account in the book.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: It's weird though, because he told the rough and tumble
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: account himself, so it's not like he would be opposed
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: to that being out in the world. Yeah, but maybe
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: he wanted the official that's in his book to be
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: I don't know. The guy doesn't strike me as a liar,
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: A little bit of a kook, but not a liar.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: But according to the memoir, it was a It was
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: just a smashing success and nothing could have gone more swimmingly.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Right, So what is most likely I would I would
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: guess what is most likely here is that there was
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: some diplomacy in the telling of the story in the memoir.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: And then as the guy ages he's got his legacy,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: he's not worried about getting in trouble. You know, now
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: he's a sports legend. Yeah, so now he's a good
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: he's just telling the fun version of the story. We
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: know that the bones of it are true. He did
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: invent what becomes basketball. He did have to he did
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: have to maintain control over a bunch of rowdy kids,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: and he was coming in hot because the pe teacher
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: before him just couldn't get the kids interested in anything.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: So this embellishment about it being violent if it's untrue.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: According to how to Watch Basketball Like a Genius by
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Nick Green, the embellishment probably came about because the first
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: game might have been very boring.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, finish with a score of one to nothing, So
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: what is this soccer? That's snoozer material right there?
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Not good.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: A student by the name of William Chase got the
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: only basket in what maybe would be considered a three
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: pointer today, you know, a real half court you know,
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: fling right, heavo, So he obviously was the was the
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: star player. The floor of the gym where all this
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: went down measured thirty five by fifty four, so this, yeah,
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: this would have been basically, based on current kind of standards,
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: a mid court shot.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is like, yeah, he's he's half half a
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: court away. That's epic. That's like Steph Curry level. And
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: the game was clumsy, maybe more than a little chaotic,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: And then Naismith later wrote, this is this is such
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: a weird cold burn. He says, there's no teamwork, but
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: each man did his best.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Great, what does that mean? Anssipation Award.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Is there a guy like popping and locking the corner?
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Who knows?
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: I do think, you know, we'll get to some of
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: Naismith's more out there ideas about the human species, but
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: you start to get hints at it with his theory
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: that young men needed competition inherently and they had to
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: fulfill some kind of play instinct, which just really feels
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: like looking at man as as an animal in a
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: lot of ways, you know, like like a primitive beast,
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: which is not I'm not saying that's not there's not
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: some truth to that at times, but it does seem
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: like this guy he had some he had some ideas.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, to jump in here real quick. You'll actually hear that.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: A lot of people who argue like pro like NFL
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: pro football will say that it's like it's a up
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: substitute for war. It very much is, and you know
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: football is very much trench Warfairly, it is what it is.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so that is an argument for it. So
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: you say that I wanted to jump in and just
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: toss that in. Let's do this sound cute.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: Phone and he drops in the knowledge just for you.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: So good, there we go. You know, I agree with you.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: When Noel and r pal Matt Frederick whom you just heard, folks,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: we did an episode of this is many many moons
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: ago on sports as a substitute for war, and the
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: psychology is there, which is why you know, Max thought
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: I was joking when I was like, I don't know,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: update the rules. Give them some not lethal firearms, but
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: like give them, you know, give them some like something heavy.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: Or we could just you know, post some like sniper turrets.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Have you seen that thing?
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: There's a meme or a video meme where it's like
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: shots from American Sniper where Bradley Cooper's you know, the American,
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: the titular American sniper and he's popping off shots. And
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: then it's showing that those moments where male soccer players
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: just fall down and clutch themselves when they're literally brushed
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: by another player. Apparently it's like a thing. And then
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: compare it to women's soccer where they just play on
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: with like blood gushing out of their eye sockets and stuff.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's pretty comical.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: American Gladiator James N. Smith would have loved American Gladiator.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: You guys, remember that show.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: Dude, I went and saw them and Augusta when I
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: saw him live, they did. There's there's a there's a
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: documentary about the American Gladiators on.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Netflix right now.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: And surprise, surprise, they were all a bunch of juicers.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: What like like uh.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Not the Orange Variety never guessed. Apparently lots of orgies
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: happening in the locker rooms too between Can you imagine
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: that like a juiced up orgy like that?
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: I'm just imagining the smell, And I wish I wasn't.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: As he said, nay Smith, little wonky. We opened with that.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: You gotta be kind of eccentric to say I'm an
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: inventor sport. And originally the students who, by the way,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: again are on board with this from game one, you know,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: they got black eyes, dislocated shoulders, scores to settle. They say, ah,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: mister Inn, you should call this Naysmith ball bro And
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: he said, well, we've got to basket, We've got the ball.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Let's just call it that.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: If it had been a box, it would have been
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: box ball.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Or if it had been a basket in a box,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: it would have been basketbox. He's being very reasonable. I
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: think so too. I'm glad he's a ball though, and
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: so we wanted to share some of the rules that
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: he codified. You know, he's so he's basically he's the
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Moses of basketball, right. So here's what he puts on
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: his tablets. He says, like you played out earlier, I
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: don't want the players to move when they're holding the ball.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: That's kind of why rugby gets violent. And he really
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: he has this moment where he says, look, if you
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: can't roam with the ball, we don't have to have
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: people be tackled. Right, And if you if you listen
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: to his and we can laundry list them to or
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: some of them. But if you listen to his original rules,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: what's surprising is they don't seem like they all apply
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: to basketball today. Yeah.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: I mean again, I'm not what you'd call a sports fan,
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: so I don't really I know the basics of the
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: rules of basketball, but a lot of these didn't seem familiar.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: I think we should list themun because they're pretty pretty fascinating.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: The ball may be thrown in any direction with one
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: or both hands.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, makes sense. Yet the ball may be batted in
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: any direction with one or both hands, never with the fist.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: God help you if you use a fist. This isn't volleyball,
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: this basketball.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's a great way to knox one's tooth
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: out is to hit a basketball with a fist.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I get it.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: But also a slap will get it going pretty fast too.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Sure it also something that rule of particular feels like
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: it was written for one kid with like a bad
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: whole life. It was just like, I just want to punch.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Just picture that Arthur Meme.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: You know, fist, you know, fist, Yeah, you know there's
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: there's there's rage in that fist. A player cannot run
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: with the ball. The player must throw it from the
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: spot on which he catches it. I love these very
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: gendered rules as well. By the way, allowance to be
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: made for a man who catches the ball when running
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: at a good speed. Wait, allowance to be made for
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: a man who catches the ball when running at a
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: good if.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: You're running, they throw the ball while you're running and
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: you catch it. He's saying, you.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: Don't have to like like put on the brakes and
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: still like a cartoon character.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: So how it adventually progresses.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: You can take a step without dribbling, which there's also
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: like the euro maneuver and stuff like that, which is
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: ways to manipulate that without breaking the rule.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: And you have to hold the ball in your hands
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: or between your hands. The next rule. You can't tuck
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: it in your pits, between your thighs, between your head
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: and neck. You can't just bend it behind one knee.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: Unless you're in the Harlem Globetrotters' but that's more like a.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Show later on. Yeah, so tremendous basketball player. Sure, of course,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: the arms or body must not be used for holding
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: the ball. That's right.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: No shouldering, holding, pushing, tripping, or striking or karate chops
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: in any way. The person of an opponent shall be allowed.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: That's like a Yoda sentence, Right, no shouldering, holding, pushing, tripping,
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: or striking anyway. The person of an opponent shall be allowed.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: And he didn't just say the opponent, the person of
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: an opponent, which sounds very legalistic, but I love the
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: idea of you know, it was probably fictional. I love
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: the idea again, of the these rules being written for
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: one really violent kid, like as soon as the whistle blew,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: he just did a roundhouse. Yea, someone totally cold cock them. Yeah, Uh,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: this continues.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: This is actually this is we get into something that
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: I think, I mean, some form of this obviously still
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: exists today. The first infringement of this rule by any
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: players shall count as a foul. The second shall disqualify
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: him until the next goal is made, or if there
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: was evident intent to injure the person for the whole
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: of the game. No substitute allowed. Max Is this in
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: any way resembling the foul system of modern basketball?
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Kind of?
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: It is a So this's a sub sect of fouls
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: called flagrant fouls. Is a flagrant one, a flagrant two.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: So a flagrant one is like when you like injure
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: someone by a kind of negligence, like like you know,
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: you're not like attempting to injure them, but you shouldn't
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: have done what you did. And what that what that
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: is is the team. I think traditionally there's there's different situations.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: You get two free throws and the ball, so it's
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: much higher than a regular poule, which is just two
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: free throws or the ball.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: And then if someone gets two flagrant ones in a game,
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: they get ejected from the game, and there's a flagrant
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: two which is like, no, no, no, man, you weren't even
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: trying to like, you know, go for the ball. You
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: were just trying to tackle this guy in the air.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Then you're first and second degree murderer. That that's what
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: I was thinking. It's like manslaughter and murder. Yeah, manslaughters one,
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: murders two and two. You're immediately ejected from the game.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: But you know, when these rules are written, I don't
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: think they had bench players because you know basketball, you
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: always changing.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: It does say no substitutions in a lot of these rules.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: I'm going to use the word flag or the phrase
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: flagrant foul way more off total noun, like you've committed
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: a flagrant foul. And yeah, so we've got that rule
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: does matter. And then they go on to define some
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: of the ideas of what a foul is. So rule
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: six is a foul is striking at the ball with
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: the fist violation of rules three, four and as such
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: as described in rule five. So he just says this
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: is what a foul is. I think he starts counting fouls.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: If either side makes three consecutive fouls, then the other
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: team gets a point. It shall count as a goal
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: for the opponents. What does consecutive mean? It's good, but
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: it's not perfect because the clock on consecutive fouls starts
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: over whenever the other team does something nest. Yeah, and
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: there's no mention of penalties of like involving free throws
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: or like extra opportunities to get points. There's a way
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: that these consecutive fouls translate into free points, you know,
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: for the opposing team. But it doesn't like there's no
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: you know, mini game, which I would say.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: That'd be great. It's kind of well, that's kind of
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: what a free throw is.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: It's like, oh, we we've triggered this event, and now
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: you don't necessarily get it. Would you get the opportunity
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: to get it?
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah? And then what is a goal? He says. A
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: goal is made when the ball is thrown or batted
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: from the grounds into the basket and it stays in
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: the basket. Remember the basket saw as a bottom providing
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: those defending the goal do not touch or disturb the goal.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: If the ball rests on the edge and the opponent
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: moves the basket, it counts as a goal. That's way different.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: That's very different.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Ah, yes, no, but goltending is still a call at
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: least in an American basketball it's not international in FEBA.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: But like so, if the ball is above the basket
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: and a team touches it, it's either offensive interference, which
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: is to turnover no basket, or it's goltending automatic basket.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: But Foeba's way cooler because Foeba you can just rip
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: it off top of the rim tight. So there's also
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: there's also the idea of a ball going out of bounds.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: We all remember this, You've seen it in every basketball game.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: When the ball goes out of bounds, it shall be
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: thrown into the field of play by the person first
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: touching it. In case of a dispute, the umpire the
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: ref shall throw it straight into the field. The thrower,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: in which is a cool title, gets five seconds to
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: do it. If he holds it longer, it automatically goes
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: to the other team. If any side persists in trying
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: to delay the game, then they get a foul.
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: The umpire shall be judged of the men and shall
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: note the fouls and notify the referee. When three consecutive
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: fowls have been made, he shall have power to disqualify
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: men according to rule five. I'm sorry an umpire in basketball.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah they changed it, yeah lasphemy. Yeah yeah, so uh okay,
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: but we do we have a referee, right exactly. So
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: the next rule, the referee shall be judge of the
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: ball and shall decide when the ball is in play
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: in bounds to which side it belongs, and she'll keep
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: the time. He shall decide when a goal has been
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: made and keep account of the goals, with any other
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: duties that are usually performed by a referee. So the
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: way it's written, it sounds like there's a bath and
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: an umpire, but now they're the same guy. That makes sense.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: Seems like it's convoluted to have both.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: Well, no way, it could be one of those things.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: So like in football, there's like a ref there's an umpire,
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: there's like all the different people have a different type.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Of jurisdiction brand Yeah, I get it. But then basketball
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: you just have referees and baseballly you just have umpires.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: There's no jurisdiction for them. Yeah, I don't know. It
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: seems like basketball is.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: A little more of a of a ni kind of
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: sport too, like where one person could probably keep track,
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: it's not like an insane number of players.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: And it's similar in some ways to like how soccer works.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Were, like the refs move up and down the field,
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: and so when you're on this part of the field,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: they're assigned to like this section and stuff like that.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: So like everyone's kind of calling similar things in a
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: basketball game, which.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: Goes to show too that a ref in basketball, or
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: maybe in any sport, particularly in basketball, not not so
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: much in baseball, has to be pretty fit because they
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: got to keep right moving, bobbing and weaving and running along.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: And that's where it's different than like football is because
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: you have like this guy's job is to make sure
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: everyone's on side, along with a couple of other calls.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: But like they're very much more specialized jobs for football referees.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And there's there's more to look at too, right. Also,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: the weird system of how they outline a first down
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: on the stadium or on the on the field is
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: pretty fascinating. Still, all that eludes me a down. It's
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Greek to me.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: It's fine. I'm fine with it keeping it that way.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: You're there for the commercials, you know what I mean.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: I'm there to hear other people's hot takes on the commercials.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: I don't even need to see the commercials themselves.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: I love going to live sports games for the energy,
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: and I love concessions food. I know it's super trash,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: but I I I know those nachos are not worth
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: twelve dollars or whatever. That color does not exist in nation,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: but it hits different. That's hit different especially.
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: You know what I really like is French fries at
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: a baseball game, smothered.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: In catch up directly on the fries. Amazing.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: That at leaks for me as the nostalgic things I
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: used to play Little league and then go to little
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: league games. That's just a classic sport. You know, snack
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: like peanuts at faseball. That's how I feel too.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The next rule is the time shall be two
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: to fifteen minute halves with five minutes rest between. And
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: the final rule this is again from our pal Nick Greens.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: You don't talk about fight club as you.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Don't talk about fight Club, That's right, James Nasmith, inventor
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: of fight Club. Chuck Palainook has been lying to you.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Uh No. The last rule is the side making the
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: most goals and in that time in that time window
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: will be declared the winner. If there is a draw
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: and the captains of the teams agree, then they can
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: just keep playing in kind of a death mode record.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Scratch that foul ball.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: We're we're we're ding dong, ding dong.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: We're successfully making this one of the seven times out timeouts?
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: We get is it times out or is it timeouts?
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Time outs? Unclear timeouts? It's not like attorneys General. Okay,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: we're taking we're taking the bass. There's so much more
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: to explore about the world of basketball thanks to our
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: research associate.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: Doctor Z's that's right, not to be confused with doctor J. J. Jay,
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: who is an important figure in the early days of basketball.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: That's doctor J's name. I almost got it. Hold on,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: hold on, then I see googling. I have googling. I
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: can tell you hold on almost. Oh gosh. What is
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: the male name that is most likely to begin with
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: a J that is not Justin.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: Or Jason Johnson close Jensen.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Also, I have a part two's question. Oh boy, oh,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: now I'm trying too hard and it's gone. What is it?
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: Julius Julius Irving, Julius Irving.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: What league did he play in? And b L No,
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: you played at the American Basketball Association.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: There was two leagues. There's the NBA and the ABA,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: and they they've went together. Hey, man, if I put
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: together a trivia team, do you want to be the
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: sports ringer. I'm looking for a new sports ringer.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Sure, it's it's about forty five thousand dollars a year
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: to retain me.
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: That sounds pretty reasonable. Actually, I mean, I'd like you
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: take it in bar tabs. I'd like it for you
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: to pay me.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Feat.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: I take it in a French fries covered in ketchup boom.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: All right, a delicacy. This will all make sense later.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Thanks also or not or not. Thanks also to our
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: super producer, mister Max Williams. Thanks to Jonathan Strickland aka
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: the Quiz who else? Who else? Oh?
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: You know all the hits, Alex Williams who composed He's
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: Jeff Coates. Chris rossiotis here in spirit, the works You
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: Me and the Devil Makes Three.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Basketball is fun. We'll see you next time, folks.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.