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From Prison to State House Rep - The Tarra Simmons Story · Nightmare Success In and Out

0:01
What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
0:04
Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy, welcome to The Nightmare Success in our
0:07
podcast where we explore how to overcome your fears and
0:10
nightmares that set yourself free.
0:13
We're going to be exploring this topic with guys I was in love
0:15
and worth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
0:20
These stories can be inspiring, sometimes sad.
0:23
There's some humor. But hopefully you can come.
0:26
Away with a nugget of something that'll help you knock down some
0:28
of the prisons you built up in your own mind.
0:34
All right, welcome back. I'm our successor now.
0:36
Listeners, this is where you come for what happens when your
0:38
worst fear becomes your reality. How do you adapt, survive,
0:41
overcome? Set yourself free.
0:43
Don't forget to to follow, subscribe, share.
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Like all those things really helps the show folks.
0:49
I am so excited about this interview.
0:52
You know, if you're if you like incredible comeback stories,
0:56
pull up a chair because I have one of the most inspiring
0:59
stories I've heard. Tara SIM is my guest.
1:03
She had a troubled childhood. She was kicked out of middle
1:06
school at 13 and was pregnant by 14.
1:10
She found her way back to school.
1:12
She graduated high school. She graduated college with a
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degree in nursing. Tara fell into and relapsed back
1:21
into substance abuse, which eventually LED her to be
1:24
sentenced to a 30 month prison sentence.
1:27
Her comeback story is unreal. When she got out, Tara went to
1:32
law school. She graduated MAGA cum laude,
1:36
top of her class. Then she had to fight with the
1:39
the Washington State Bar just to be admitted as an attorney.
1:43
She didn't give up when they said they would admit her and
1:47
she had friends and, and support.
1:49
And Tara took her case to the Supreme Court Washington and she
1:57
won and she became an attorney, started doing great things as an
2:01
attorney. And then she was talked into
2:02
running for politics as a Washington state representative.
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And one, she is an incredible strong role model, voice for
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everything re entry as a lawyer, a state representative, a
2:14
speaker, an author. She's the first formerly
2:16
incarcerated Washington state representative.
2:19
I cannot wait to jump in to this story.
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Auto Plaza Direct. Tell them, Brent from Nightmare
3:01
Success sent you. Tara Simmons.
3:04
Thanks so much for being here today and making time.
3:07
So appreciate it. Absolutely.
3:10
Thank you for doing this. I, I've been so excited to, to
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do this interview because it's these type of stories that just
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get to your soul of understanding what it takes to
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get knocked down, to hit rock bottom, to get back up.
3:30
It's not easy getting back up, but you still get through it.
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And then you get to that other side and it feels so good.
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But I want you to take us back a little bit because it wasn't
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always easy and nothing's been easy.
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I'm sure what you're doing right now is not easy.
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No. What was your world like growing
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up as a kid? Because I know that reading
3:50
through this, there were struggles.
3:52
Yeah, yeah. You know, as a kid it was.
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I didn't know any different. But now that I look back, you
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know, it was I lived in extreme poverty.
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My father was a crack addict. My mom and him separated when I
4:08
was a year old, and I went back and forth between the two of
4:12
them. So my mom was a, you know,
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raging alcoholic for all my life and not really able to nurture
4:18
me. And then I would go to my father
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and he was a crack addict. And, you know, when I lived with
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him in California, in Stockton, it was really rough 'cause
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that's where I was exposed to a lot of gang violence and gun,
4:32
gun violence and drug deals, you know, very early on.
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I have a scar on my ankle. My father is Latino also, and he
4:41
was being chased by the police that not when I was nine.
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And I have a scar on my ankle from when I fell when the police
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was chasing us. And, you know, it's just really,
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really a bad childhood. And I how old?
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Would you have been when that happened?
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How old? What?
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How old would you have been when that happened, when you were
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running from the police and scarred your ankle?
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Nine years old. Wow.
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Yeah, they were actually chasing my father, but I was with him,
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so I was running. Probably like they were chasing.
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You. Yeah, absolutely.
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And so, you know, that's just, you know, how I grew up is in
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really rough neighborhoods. And, you know, police were never
5:18
supportive of me. You know, I was a victim of
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crime very early, you know, sexual abuse, trafficking, and I
5:25
never felt like they were supportive of me or helpful or
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the system did not help me right.
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But it harmed my family and IA lot and, you know, just
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generational poverty. My father got his GED and the
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California Youth Authority. But I I was the first person
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ever in my family to graduate from high school at. 16.
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I have two brothers from my father who were younger and they
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were, you know, taken away and in foster care.
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And then I have a sister from my mother.
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And so, you know, my mother was an alcoholic.
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So it was a little bit not as bad as far as criminal legal
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system involvement, but you know, still not a healthy
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environment to develop as a child.
6:14
No, I can't imagine. Yeah.
6:18
So you're in that world and you don't really know anything
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different. How did it come to you to when
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you dropped out of middle school, Was it all the other
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kids that you were with in your group?
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Did they do the same thing or what?
6:32
How did that happen? Yeah, pretty much.
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I actually got expelled. I got my first violent offense,
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assault in the second degree, a strike, when I was 13.
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And really what it was about is trying to fit in with my peers
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who were in gangs and I, you know, beat up a random girl just
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to kind of prove that I was tough and down with the gangs
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and all of this stuff at 13 years old.
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And I, you know, broke her ribs. And I feel really bad about that
7:08
today, you know, But I was 13. I was lost.
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I was looking for a sense of belonging that I didn't have in
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a family. And I think, you know, the other
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young people I was around were also looking for that and really
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didn't have any guidance or direction.
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And so I've had to learn to forgive myself for that.
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But I, I do feel bad. I'd like to find her one day and
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hope that she's OK. But so yeah, I got expelled.
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I was 13. I went to juvenile detention at
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that time for 50 days. And I have been in juvenile
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detention before for stealing food because my father would
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sell our food stamps for crack cocaine.
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But yeah, that was the the longest time I had spent in
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juvenile detention at that time. Wow.
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I think it's interesting in your story though, you you ended up
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getting pregnant at at 14, had the baby at 15, but then you
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find your way back into graduating high school.
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How did all that come and evolve?
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Well, when I got pregnant, I was 14, I was living in a park and
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I, I was really, really sick. I was really sick.
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And so I went to the hospital and found out that I had, I was
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septic like I had a kidney infection that had gotten into
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my blood. So it was in there for like.
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People, by the way. So I was like, I was in there
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for five days and that's when I found out I was pregnant as
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well, and I was 14. And the social worker at the
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hospital, you know, came to me and said, you know, you can get
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on welfare. And, you know, so I did.
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I went to DSHSI, got on welfare, and then I was able to get
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housing. And I remember on my 15th
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birthday I signed the lease on my studio apartment and it had
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cockroaches and it was $300.00 a month and I got like 349 a month
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from welfare. But you know what?
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It was the first time I felt safe, like I had a door that
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would close and lock and I was safe.
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I was off the streets, you know, and so, you know, during my
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pregnancy, going to the OBGYN and then connecting with social
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services, you know, child protection services got
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involved. They were concerned, you know, a
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15 year old having a baby on her own doesn't have family support.
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And you know, they, you know, let me keep my child.
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But they said, you know, these are the things that you have to
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do in order to keep your child. You need to get back in school.
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You can't have any men at your apartment.
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You cannot drink alcohol. You can't do this.
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And I was so in love with my baby that I would do anything.
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And I wanted him to have a better life.
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And so because I had, you know, some support from systems and
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helped me get to school and stuff, you know, paid my bus
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fare and things. And then the school had an
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alternative school. They had a child care center
10:06
there. I was able to go back to school
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and complete all four years in one year.
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I was always like, academically gifted and smart and I could get
10:16
through. If you tell me what I need to
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do, I can do it. No, I can.
10:19
Well, that's followed you all the way through, Terry.
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Yeah, that's a protective factor.
10:24
You know, that's been helpful for me.
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But yeah, I did all four years and one year.
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I graduated high school at 16. I was the first person in my
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entire family for generations to ever graduate from high school
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so. So what was your next step?
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Well, I didn't know anybody that went to college.
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I didn't know about Pell grants, I didn't know about financial
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aid. But it was random that a
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neighbor told me about it and he told me the thing that motivated
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me to go to college was that I would get Pell Grants and it
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would cover my tuition of books, but then I would get money back
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and it wouldn't affect my welfare and I could buy my son's
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shoes with it. So that's how immature I was at
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that time. And the motivation for going to
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school was really financial. But once I got there, at
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Community College at 16, I met other people who, you know, just
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had healthier lives and other goals.
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And then I started dreaming, and I started dreaming about what I
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wanted. To see what's interesting, Tara,
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because that was maybe the first time that you would run into
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other people in a different type of group that had aspirations to
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do something with their life. You just knew the streets and
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what you'd been around, but you attached yourself to that felt
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right or felt like something that you wanted.
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Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
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So you do that, you go to the Community College, you get your
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your nursing degree and you're a nurse, which is a great
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occupation. Yeah.
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So how does how do things step into you, the next step of your
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life? Well, you know, I, I went to
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Community College and then I transferred to the university
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and got my bachelor's degree and became a nurse.
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And I, I thought like I had overcame everything because I
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had a career and I was, you know, earning money and I had a
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house. I bought a house.
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You wouldn't have. Been that old then, right?
12:25
Yeah, I was like 21. Yeah, I'm 21 years old.
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And, you know, my son was healthy and happy and clean and,
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you know, cute and everything was going well.
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But it was in my personal life where I was still struggling to
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find belonging, connection. Like I never felt like I really
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fit in with people who didn't have a trauma history like mine,
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but the people who had trauma histories like mine weren't
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healthy. But I still, you know, and I
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still to this day, like connect more with people who have trauma
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histories. I just, you know, I, if I meet
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people and this was the case then that, you know, had like
13:10
privileged lives and a regular mom and dad and stuff.
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I just felt like I didn't, I wasn't maybe good enough to be
13:16
their friends or they, you know, didn't understand me and my life
13:23
challenges. And so it was always hard for me
13:26
to connect with people and that would play out in intimate
13:30
partner relationships as well. And unfortunately, I kept, you
13:35
know, like wanting to date men who were kind of like in gangs
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and still kind of with that mentality.
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And they were abusive to me. And, but I didn't know my worth
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and I didn't know that I was OK just the way I was.
13:52
It's it's taken a long time and a lot of therapy to get to a
13:56
place where I'm OK by myself. And if anyone's coming in my
14:00
life, they're going to add to it.
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And if they're not, I'm going to end it.
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And I'll be OK, right. It took a long time and a lot of
14:08
therapy for me to get healthy. But, you know, being around
14:10
those circumstances, I definitely had interactions with
14:13
law enforcement again, even though I was a registered nurse.
14:16
I got an assault charge again when I was 23.
14:20
And I was a nurse because I, you know, had a, a gangster
14:25
boyfriend and, you know, things went bad and then, you know,
14:29
eventually my father died and my, you know, I just was unhappy
14:37
in life. And I did end up, you know,
14:39
getting married to someone who was just for financial security
14:43
and like wanting stability. But I was just unsatisfied in
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life. And my father died and my aunt
14:49
had come over and she was using methamphetamine.
14:51
And once I tried that drug, I was hooked.
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It was like, no, I can't go to sleep yet because I've been up
14:58
for two days. I need to stay awake.
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I need to do this and I need to do that.
15:01
And so that drug, I was so addicted, it really ruined my
15:06
life very quickly. Within 10 months, I was in
15:11
prison on a 30 month sentence. But, you know, I had already
15:15
been in juvenile justice, foster care, jail, and now I was in
15:19
prison. Yeah.
15:22
And so that was in what? Actually, Tara, I'm, I'm kind of
15:26
interested in how in that time in your life being caught up in.
15:33
I mean, I, I, I've just interviewed Damon W, who was a
15:38
star football player and, and in Texas.
15:40
And the next thing you know, he, you know, got a bad injury, lost
15:44
his identity and, and somebody gave him meth and his whole life
15:48
changed and he got a gigantic sentence and Barry's a great
15:51
speaker and he's changing the world.
15:53
But that meth thing, really, some people, they can take that
15:59
and it, it totally takes over their whole life.
16:02
But when that happened to you when you were arrested, was, was
16:09
it a, a surprise thing or was it something where they knocked
16:13
down the door and it was part of how how did the how did that
16:16
come about? Yeah, so I was actually was
16:19
arrested three times within the ten months of starting the math.
16:22
So I started in November 2010, and I was arrested in July for
16:29
shoplifting, boosting with a bunch of other people, and then
16:33
in August again for boosting with a bunch of other people.
16:35
I was out on PR, so then I had to get bailed out for that.
16:39
And then in September they had done some controlled buys on me.
16:43
I had sold some of the pain medication that I was being
16:46
prescribed to somebody in order to get money to get the meth.
16:50
And then they had controlled buys.
16:53
So they raided where I was staying at this apartment.
16:57
They raided my car, they raided the place I was staying and, you
17:00
know, charged me with the delivery for the controlled
17:02
buys, you know, tried to get me to cooperate with police and
17:06
like, you know, go do control buys on somebody bigger.
17:08
And I said no, I'm not doing that.
17:10
So, you know, they gave it to me and, you know, charged me with
17:14
possession with intent 'cause I had, you know, marijuana that
17:17
was like packaged up and then unlawful possession of a firearm
17:21
for a gun that was in the trunk of my rental car that wasn't
17:24
mine. But you know.
17:27
It happens. So when you get this sentence,
17:34
you've got all kinds of different things on it.
17:35
You're you're a nurse, you're a mother.
17:39
What's going through your mind on all the things that are
17:41
happening all in your world at that moment?
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I mean, at first it was just like extreme depression and fear
17:49
and powerlessness, but the powerlessness kind of helped me
17:55
get into surrender. And I think that that surrender
18:00
and that powerlessness is what really helped me find recovery
18:06
and find hope. And once you're so far down and
18:13
there's nothing you can do about it, there's nowhere up, nowhere
18:17
to go but up from there. And so when I got transferred to
18:24
the prison, I recognized that I was powerless.
18:29
And I, you know, just started going to different volunteer
18:34
programs, you know, different faith programs, recovery
18:39
programs, anything to better myself or to learn about myself.
18:45
And I started to unpack, you know, like, how did I get here?
18:49
I started to heal. And I realized that I was
18:52
carrying a lot of shame that didn't belong to me, you know, a
18:56
lot of things that weren't my fault from when I was a child
18:59
and that I was OK who I am and that I am someone who has a lot
19:05
to contribute to the world and. I know one of the things that
19:08
you talked about, Tara, from your speech last month was that
19:15
by getting into that community, because it really is a
19:18
community, like one of the things that I always talk about,
19:20
I was scared to death to go to prison.
19:22
You know who isn't, but the people that you find in prison,
19:28
I guess that was my biggest surprise.
19:29
There were good people in there. And one of the things you talked
19:33
about was, is that you found a community of people that were
19:35
sharing stories that you could relate to.
19:39
And, and it created hope for yourself that this community was
19:43
something that where you became more aware that you could do
19:49
something more. And I, I think that's
19:51
interesting that you found that in prison.
19:54
Yeah, you know, I mean, helping other women who were navigating
19:58
their family law issues and their custody issues.
20:02
You know, I was probably one of the more educated people in the
20:06
in the prison 'cause I did have a bachelor's degree and I, you
20:10
know, have always been able to navigate resources and learn and
20:14
help and my heart's always been to help others.
20:16
So I think, you know, in prison I found some purpose in helping
20:21
other women with issues and. I, you know, had a little more
20:26
support. I had some money in a 401K and I
20:29
had a friend who was able to access that so they could send
20:32
me. It was like $20 a phone call,
20:34
though. It was so expensive, you know.
20:37
That's one of those hidden things that no one knows about
20:39
about the prison system. It just costs so much just to
20:42
stay connected to your family or the costs, you know.
20:45
You know, I was 4 1/2 hours away.
20:47
Just the cost of travel and whatever, just to come visit and
20:51
all those different things. But yeah, the phone calls, yeah,
20:55
that's the whole thing that cost a lot of money just to stay in
20:57
touch. Yeah, very, very much.
20:59
And so, you know, and there was these law students that were
21:03
coming to the prison, and they were helping us learn about the
21:06
law and our rights around our family law cases.
21:09
And, you know, it's not just the criminal record.
21:11
It's been, you know, family law, child custody.
21:15
It's, you know, fines and fees. It's your credit that's ruined
21:19
if you can't make payments. And everything goes into
21:21
collections. It is my nursing license.
21:24
It was all of these other legal issues that I was navigating
21:27
while I was in prison. And these law students were
21:30
helping me. And I and I met them and I met
21:33
people in recovery. And so, you know, when I got
21:35
out, I was able to connect with all of them.
21:38
And they kind of helped me, you know, piece my life back
21:43
together by both overcoming my own legal issues, you know,
21:47
getting child custody, getting my bankruptcy done.
21:51
I had a house that was foreclosed on.
21:53
I was getting evicted from it. So these lawyers were helping
21:56
me. And I was working at Burger
21:58
King, and I was making $9 an hour, and I was not able to
22:03
afford housing, you know, shoes for my kids, all those things.
22:08
And they were garnishing my paycheck to pay my fines and
22:10
fees. And, you know, I started to
22:13
think about, you know, could I just sell drugs and not use
22:17
them? And you know how?
22:19
How can I? How?
22:20
Can I get money? Yeah, How can I get money?
22:22
And, you know, even the thoughts of that just scared me because I
22:26
never wanted to experience the pain of being away from my kids
22:29
again. And so that's what inspired me
22:32
to use the number that a law student had given me when I was
22:36
in prison to call a law professor who helped people
22:42
become lawyers, even if they had a criminal record.
22:45
And then I in my nursing support group that I was in to keep my
22:49
nursing license, I someone had told me about the book by Sean
22:53
Hopwood called The Lawman. Yeah.
22:55
And he happened to be a second year law student really close to
22:58
my home at that time. And so I went and met with him
23:01
and. For those who don't know, Sean
23:03
Hopwood became kind of famous from the standpoint he was on 60
23:06
Minutes and he became a Georgetown Law professor.
23:09
And he's got quite this story. I mean, he went through the
23:13
Supreme Court from the prison. Very smart guy.
23:18
But I've also heard great stories about Sean who's helped
23:23
other people. There was Adam Clawson who was
23:25
on my show. He was sentenced to 213 years in
23:29
prison and Adam's out and it's it's because of Sean Hopwood and
23:33
what he did for him. And before we get into the, the,
23:37
to your step of going into law school, because I want to, I, I
23:40
think it's so incredible your story from there, Tara, I want
23:44
to Rep recognize you're the show sponsor.
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White collar support group. The Nightmare Success podcast is
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24:22
So I think it's, I think it's interesting, Tara, that you were
24:26
going through all this and you had these bad thoughts, but then
24:31
you pull out this number of I'm going to call this law professor
24:35
and what, what, what made you do that?
24:41
You know, when I was in prison and those law students came,
24:43
they told me, you know, you should think about going to law
24:45
school. And I thought they were crazy.
24:47
I was like, you know, I don't know any lawyers.
24:50
They're all kind of like rich people who are not in like from
24:55
my. You know I don't relate to them.
24:57
Yeah, I don't relate to them. And you know, I've had public
25:01
defenders who I didn't think were very good.
25:04
And so I, but they said, you know, you, well, you, you could
25:09
be lawyers like us, you know, coming in and helping people in
25:11
prison. I'm like, wow, really?
25:13
And I didn't know about that, right.
25:15
And so I, they gave me a number and of, of the professor John
25:22
Straight and I wrote it down. And then I think it was the
25:26
desperation of not seeing a way out of my circumstances because
25:31
I wasn't going to be able to find a better paying job with 9
25:35
felonies. And everyone in my community, in
25:40
my recovery community also had criminal records and they were
25:43
all so close out of most jobs at the time.
25:46
And this was in 2013. It was before banned the box and
25:49
stuff like that. So.
25:52
Terry, I'm, I'm curious because you're in that world now with
25:55
laws are made. The people that are around you
25:59
that obviously don't have a record, do they know the
26:04
barriers that we go through for re entry?
26:08
I mean, is it, is it, is it an awareness with just actually the
26:11
lawmakers themselves that they understand that it's a tough,
26:15
tough hill to climb? I will say they did not know
26:20
until I and some others really started getting active in
26:26
Olympia, in the capital, Yeah, and started educating them.
26:29
So when I didn't. Mean to jump ahead of you there?
26:32
I was just thinking. No, yeah.
26:35
You're in that world and and it's people like you that lend a
26:40
voice to people who are actually making the laws.
26:43
And I, and I think sometimes it's not that they don't.
26:46
They're doing something on purpose.
26:47
I just don't know that they're aware of it.
26:50
And and I I what reminds me of that is Jay Jordan in
26:55
California. Yeah, I know he did a lot of
26:58
work on a lot of laws. And one of the things that he
27:01
did was create a wall and he took it up to the Sacramento and
27:06
brought all the legislators out. And they looked at all these
27:09
laws that were on the books that were barriers for people to not
27:14
be able to get jobs or not to be able to have housing or not.
27:16
And they looked at it at all. They couldn't believe that there
27:20
were that many barriers for someone to to get back into
27:24
society and and try to be a citizen.
27:27
Anyway, I didn't mean to bring you off of the the because the,
27:29
the story of you going through law school and then it's, it's,
27:35
it's a good one. I didn't mean to draw you out
27:38
for. That No, it's OK.
27:39
No, it's OK. Thank you.
27:40
Yeah. So I you know, I got it.
27:42
I got admitted to law school. I applied.
27:44
Sean Hopwood helped me with my personal essay entrance and, you
27:50
know, told me how to study for the LSAT and all that.
27:52
And, you know, I got admitted about a year and four months
27:57
after I got out of prison. That's incredible.
28:00
Yeah, I'm trying. To think at that time, Tara, how
28:02
old would you have been when you were going to Inter Law School
28:05
I. Think it was like 35, yeah, 35.
28:09
And I was scared and I didn't think I was smart enough.
28:15
I didn't know you know in kind. Of the whole imposter syndrome
28:20
thing. All the imposter syndrome on
28:22
steroids because I was also the only, you know, formerly
28:25
incarcerated person there at least open about it.
28:28
And I remember, you know, my first class was criminal law and
28:33
just the language they were using, you know, some of my
28:35
colleagues, my peers and the stigma.
28:38
And I remember just having like a lot of visceral responses,
28:43
PTSD, like not staying in my body.
28:46
I was very upset and dysregulated.
28:48
And it was, it was really hard to be there and get through
28:52
that. But I found a lot of support
28:55
outside of the law school with, you know, civil rights
28:58
organizations, advocacy organizations that were working
29:02
on criminal justice. And so then I started going down
29:04
to Olympia and sharing my story. And then as I did that, I was
29:09
invited to speak at judicial conferences and, you know, all
29:13
kinds of different policy. Tables while you're in law
29:15
school. While I'm in law school and the
29:18
governor appointed me to become the Co chair of the statewide re
29:23
entry council, which was brand new, and the public defense
29:26
Advisory Board. And what?
29:28
Do you think? About that, I mean, at that time
29:30
in your life, what was going through Tara's head?
29:34
The governor is saying, hey, Tara, I'd like for you to work
29:36
on something for me. I mean, it was in insane.
29:41
It was like, you know, like a movie.
29:45
It was like a movie. Here I go from, you know, prison
29:50
in the lowest point of my life, and now I'm up here and I'm
29:53
being supported by these people outside the law school who are
29:57
working on advocacy and who are trying to learn.
30:00
And like you said, they don't. A lot of lawmakers don't know,
30:03
but they want to learn. And so I was getting him the ear
30:06
of a lot of lawmakers and, you know, pass legislation before I
30:11
ever got elected. Several pieces of legislation by
30:14
working with prime sponsors and starting a nonprofit that also
30:19
helped elevate other people who have been formally incarcerated.
30:22
So we were stronger together in numbers.
30:25
And yeah, I've been able to accomplish a lot in 10 years.
30:30
Well, it's unreal, but I the the story of you getting through law
30:35
school, doing the things that you did, and graduating as high
30:40
as you did in your law school class.
30:46
Did you just assume that your next step would be I'm going to
30:51
be admitted by the bar and and be an attorney and go to work?
30:55
Absolutely. I mean, because Sean got
30:58
admitted in Washington state two years before I graduated and,
31:03
you know, his criminal record was is.
31:07
This a bank robbery. He bank robbery and he had
31:11
served much longer time and he didn't have any mitigating
31:14
circumstances like I did of childhood trauma, drug
31:18
addiction, you know, all of that.
31:20
And so and you know, when I applied, I had 100 letters of
31:25
support from sitting judges, prosecutors elected like
31:31
legislators, people in my recovery community, people in my
31:35
faith community, other formerly incarcerated people, law
31:37
professors, you know, all of these people had written letters
31:41
of support on my behalf. I graduated Magna cum laude.
31:46
I graduated with the first Skadden Fellowship ever in my
31:51
school's history. And Skadden Fellowship's been
31:53
around 30 years and people been applying and nobody ever got
31:57
one. And so I, you know, and this was
31:59
going to fund my salary of like $52,000 a year, very, you know,
32:05
modest salary to, to actually represent people coming out of
32:08
prison in their legal issues around, you know, their fines
32:12
and fees and when they can get their record vacated so they can
32:15
get better job opportunities and trying to overcome these
32:19
barriers to re entry. And, and so, you know, and that
32:23
pro bono, that attorney law professor who I had contacted
32:27
before I applied, you know, took my case pro bono and represented
32:31
me at the character and fitness hearing.
32:33
And he had been doing that for like 30-5 years.
32:36
And I don't think he ever lost a case.
32:39
And he really believed that I was going to be OK because for
32:44
the five years after prison, you know, I have been doing random
32:48
drug testing in order to keep my nursing license active.
32:52
I had done everything right. And it was extremely devastating
33:00
when after a full day of hearing and a sitting judge came to
33:05
testify on my behalf and policy director from the ACLU, who was
33:09
my supervisor and another woman who I'd worked with, you know,
33:14
and I answered all of their questions.
33:16
And, and then they come out and they say we're sorry, but, you
33:21
know, six to three, they've decided not to recommend that
33:26
you get to sit for the bar exam. And I was devastated.
33:29
I was shocked because I thought there's no way.
33:32
Like I've done everything right? I think this is what's
33:36
interesting about your story though, Tara, because there's
33:39
really only two ways to go when something like that happens.
33:42
You lose all hope, curl up in a fetal position and hit rock
33:46
bottom and stay there. Or you do what you did.
33:51
You were devastated by it. You couldn't believe it, but you
33:54
continued to take steps and connect dots.
33:58
What? What do you think that is?
34:00
What, what, what? Because I think people want to
34:04
know. Because people get knocked down.
34:06
It's the question of how they get back up.
34:08
How did you get back up from that?
34:11
You know, I, I think just on my whole life, my guiding light has
34:16
been to give my kids a better life than I had.
34:19
And so like giving up is not even an option.
34:23
It's. Not an option.
34:26
You know, I made a mistake when I use drugs and I was separated
34:29
from them for a couple years and that was the worst thing ever.
34:33
And and so, yeah, just giving up.
34:36
There's there. That's just not an option.
34:38
You have to figure it out. And you.
34:40
And so for me, it's like, I think, you know, my therapist
34:44
has always been trying to figure out like my resilience.
34:46
How where do I get resilience? Because if we could figure that
34:49
out, we could like. Give it to other bottle.
34:51
Yeah, I want to give it to. Everybody, I want everyone to
34:53
have resilience, right? And to not give up and to keep
34:56
coming back. And, you know, I don't know, it
35:00
might have been protective factors from my grandmother,
35:04
who, you know, loved me or my dedication to my children.
35:08
But yeah, just giving up is not an option.
35:12
And so one of the things that I have a strength that I have is
35:15
that I'm vulnerable enough to reach out when I need help and.
35:19
That's a huge. Thing and to keep finding if if
35:23
I reach a person and they can't help me, that's not that's not a
35:26
dead end, I'll find another. No, and Tara, I, I, I don't want
35:30
to gloss over that because to me, I've got the five tools I
35:34
used, you know, to survive my that's number one is to humble
35:37
yourself, look around, see who's getting it right and go and ask
35:40
them how they're getting it right.
35:42
Asking for advice, asking for help.
35:44
And it's amazing how many people will help you because the people
35:47
who are getting it right and the people that can help, they want
35:50
to and they're kind of proud that they're getting it right.
35:52
And you know, I always say it's like getting the answers to the
35:54
test before the test, because if you do that, and this is, this
35:58
is what I find fascinating about your story.
35:59
You weren't afraid to do that. You know, you cuz by doing
36:06
everything right, you almost get that entitlement that, hey, I
36:10
did everything I was supposed to do, give me what I'm supposed to
36:14
have. And you didn't get it.
36:16
And you had everything that you were supposed to have, all the
36:19
people, all the letters, all the support, all the things that you
36:22
had done. And they said no 6, three, no.
36:27
And I think that's the the magic recipe right there.
36:30
That OK, now what? OK, now what do I need to do?
36:34
You didn't quit. And I think that's that's
36:37
everybody has moments like that with a fork in the road.
36:40
So take us through to what happened next.
36:42
Yeah. I mean, so, you know, I was very
36:44
fortunate that I have met Sean, you know, previously and that I
36:48
had done five or six internships during my time in law school.
36:53
And I had developed this network because, you know, that the no
36:57
decision came on a Friday and it was Good Friday.
37:00
And, you know, I'm a spiritual person and, you know, Sunday was
37:03
Easter and I was like going through it and thinking, you
37:06
know, but just trying to fill my spirit, saying the resurrection
37:09
is going to come and, you know, all this.
37:11
And then on Tuesday, there was a strategy meeting where Skadden
37:15
Foundation zoomed in or, you know, called in was conference
37:19
calls with the ACLU and Sean Hopwood.
37:22
And then my professor, who was my lawyer at the character and
37:24
fitness. And like all these people and
37:26
they, they just started saying like, we're not going to give
37:28
up. There's no process for appeal,
37:30
but we're going to figure it out.
37:32
We're going to create like do a novel thing.
37:35
And Sean decided to become my new lawyer.
37:39
And he's a Washington state license.
37:43
Deal. Washington state license
37:45
attorney, even though he's a Georgetown law professor and so,
37:48
you know, he filed, you know, within like 30 days or whatever,
37:52
he filed a motion before the Supreme Court asking for a
37:56
review of what happened at the barf association.
37:59
And, and then as soon as he did that, the ACLU of Washington
38:04
filed an amicus brief 15 minutes later with signatures from
38:09
criminal justice organizations all across the nation and like,
38:13
54 law professors, you know, all of these people.
38:17
And so I think the court saw that and was like, whoa, this is
38:20
like something we really need to pay attention.
38:23
To look at this. You know, because justices in
38:25
our state are elected and they're accountable and, and
38:29
they work with a lot of these people.
38:31
And, you know, I think they wanted to do the right thing.
38:34
So they did, they scheduled it for oral, oral argument, which
38:36
had not happened previously in Washington.
38:40
And and then so Sean came from DC and the Temple of Justice was
38:45
packed. I mean, so packed that somebody
38:48
fainted and that it was so hot in there, right?
38:52
And it was packed and it was November, but, and, and they had
38:56
to set up overflow outside and it was just insane.
38:59
When Sean tells the story, he's like, people were coming up and
39:02
taking selfies with me and like, NPR was there from DC and like,
39:07
the media was everywhere. Big deal.
39:10
It was a big deal. And so he did a great job in
39:14
representing me. I go back and watch that hearing
39:16
sometimes because he was just so great.
39:18
And the justices, they were asking really good questions.
39:21
You could tell that they were upset and but, you know, we left
39:26
that day and you think it takes like four or five months to get
39:29
an opinion from the Supreme Court.
39:30
So I thought I'd be waiting with anxiety another four or five
39:33
months. And they gave me the the
39:36
greatest gift. And that day, the Supreme Court
39:39
unanimously ordered that I take the bar exam.
39:43
And it's still, you know, it was the most validating form of
39:51
justice that anyone could ever ask for.
39:53
Unanimous decision in historical time on the same day.
39:59
They don't do that. And, you know, Sean, you know,
40:03
didn't have to even say anything.
40:04
They know that he's formally incarcerated, that he's been
40:06
admitted. So, you know, it took four or
40:09
five months for the opinion to come out, but it finally did
40:11
say, you know, we really think there was, you know, some sexism
40:17
in this case, and you know that. The bar needs to do better, and
40:23
I know that they've been trying really hard for many years now
40:25
to make change and to move in the right direction on that
40:28
board. So yeah, it was.
40:31
It was great. And I what I think is such a big
40:34
deal about the story is, is that it wasn't just for you, Tara.
40:37
It affects everyone. And when Someone Like You does
40:41
what you did, it's a ripple effect through the whole re
40:44
entry community that the, there's a voice that didn't give
40:49
up and change something. And, and it's, that's why I want
40:54
people to hear your story, because it's one that you didn't
40:59
have to do that you could have gone off and done something.
41:03
Oh, I maybe gone back to nursing or something, but you gritted it
41:07
out and got it and, and it became something.
41:10
And now you know, it's, it's something that you can talk
41:14
about and it inspires people to hopefully, you know, this
41:19
programs called nightmare success and people are.
41:21
So why did you put those two words together?
41:22
Because every time you do life, those two words are together
41:26
because you got to decide if you're going to get out of your
41:29
comfort zone, this ugly routine you're in and step into the
41:32
unknown. And you did that every time you
41:36
were stepping into the unknown, every time you had no idea what
41:39
that court was going to do or say, but you put yourself out
41:42
there. And I think that is so it's it's
41:45
great. I love.
41:46
It thank you. And you know, I think some
41:48
people don't understand either that the bar really wanted to
41:52
keep these proceedings closed, closed hearing, closed record.
41:57
They did not. Want light on everything?
41:58
Yeah, and we had to fight to make it open and transparent and
42:04
and I was afraid at times, you know, I said.
42:06
But Sean, everyone's going to see all of the ugly of my past
42:10
and my, you know, mental health and my substance use and like,
42:14
you know, all the details of my shameful past.
42:17
And I was afraid at times. And he was like, you know, yes.
42:22
And if you waive this, that's the only way we'll get guidance
42:25
for other law students in the future.
42:27
And so I'm glad that people supported me emotionally through
42:30
that so I could make that decision.
42:32
That was the best thing I always wanted to do.
42:34
Anything I did, it was to break barriers.
42:36
So others would also have, you know, the the fairness and the
42:40
justice. And so I'm glad that I had the
42:42
support to get through that and that, you know, I was learning
42:47
to break free from shame. And so, yeah, it's it's.
42:50
Good. You become an attorney, Yes.
42:52
And then you step into another world.
42:55
Yeah, So, you know, I never was politically active.
43:00
I, you know, I came from a family, didn't vote, right.
43:03
I think the first time I voted, I don't know it.
43:06
I, I can't remember the year, but you know, I was probably in
43:10
my 20s, like late 20s. I, it was just like, you know,
43:14
politics. Mazel Mazel's hierarchy of
43:17
needs, right? When you're struggling for
43:18
housing and food, you can't really think about.
43:22
Priorities. Yeah.
43:23
And so, you know, through my advocacy in Olympia, I got to
43:28
know my representatives and my senator and my representative,
43:33
Sherry Appleton, bless her. I love her so much.
43:37
She was a lobbyist for the Defenders before she became a
43:42
representative. And she was on the public safety
43:49
committee and worked on criminal justice issues and became a
43:54
supporter of mine. And so when I was in the Temple
43:57
of Justice fighting to become a lawyer, she was there that day
44:02
in the courtroom and have been a supporter of mine.
44:06
And she tells me, she says, you know, Tara, I'm 77, I've got to
44:09
retire. A lot of people wanted her to
44:12
retire. They felt like she, you know,
44:13
wasn't keeping up, like she she wasn't being as, you know, much
44:17
of A leader as she had been before.
44:20
And so she says, I'm not going to retire unless you will run.
44:26
And I said, oh, no, there's no way.
44:29
This is nuts. Like the things I've seen and
44:32
the mudslinging and politics, and they'll just use my past
44:36
against me. I don't want to run.
44:38
OK. At the same time, there was a
44:40
state senator running over here who had supported my Supreme
44:45
Court case. And she got a negative Mailer
44:49
sent out to all the homes in her district saying don't vote for
44:52
this Senator Emily Randall because she's soft on crime.
44:56
She supports Tara Simmons, a drug addicted ex-con who wasn't
45:00
allowed to take the bar exam. And they sent that Mailer out to
45:03
the homes in her district, like to try and get people not to
45:05
vote for her, to paint her as soft on crime because she
45:08
supported me. And so, you know, at that time I
45:11
was like, you know what? They're going to talk about me
45:14
whether I run or not. No matter what.
45:16
And then, you know, Sherry and others, like people were telling
45:19
me, you know, Tara, there's no other person that has an actual
45:24
like, order from the Supreme Court saying they are a person
45:26
of good moral character. Like, you know, and you've
45:30
already been so transparent about everything, so they can't
45:33
use it against you because you've already own it.
45:37
And you know what? There wasn't like a lot of
45:38
people in our movement nationally who were lined up
45:41
that had the privilege that I had with all of the support from
45:45
the incumbent who was retiring. It's huge, a Supreme Court case
45:50
saying I was a good person already transparent nationally
45:55
in media. And I felt like if I didn't do
45:59
it, who was ever going to be able to break that concrete
46:04
ceiling and get to that platform where I can share and, you know,
46:09
get our message out and normalize people like us get
46:15
into office. And if you look at the history
46:18
of social movements, like there was always one woman that had to
46:21
go first who had to start saying, like, women can be
46:23
leaders, right? Or one person of color or one
46:26
person that had a different sexual orientation or an
46:31
immigrant or refugee, like historically.
46:33
And so as far as I know, I am one of the very first in the
46:38
nation who's been to prison, who then got elected out of state
46:42
legislature. And now I've been supporting
46:45
other people across the country. And so, you know, Eddie Gibbs is
46:50
in New York and Katura Heron is in Kentucky and Cherie Cruz and
46:54
Leola like. You said there's like five or
46:56
six that you're working. With Yeah.
46:58
And John Scott is the speaker of the House in Virginia.
47:01
I saw that. Do you know him?
47:02
I do I had like I. Need to have him on this show.
47:06
He's had an incredible story. Yeah, I saw him in DC a few
47:10
months ago. So, you know, we are, we're
47:12
connected. We are, you know, trying to help
47:15
others. I am looking at creating A501C3
47:19
and A501C4 for the purposes of helping people nationally who
47:24
are just as impacted. I get emails and letters all the
47:27
time. And the problem is like I want
47:29
to also help others but I only am one person and so like
47:33
building a team is what I need to do in order to answer.
47:37
All but the. The great thing is though, is, I
47:39
mean, Tara, it was another situation.
47:42
I don't know anything about it, but I'm going to try it.
47:46
I'm going to step out. It's the unknown.
47:49
You had the right support, but you got it.
47:53
I mean, first time elected. Now I'm sure you're up for
47:57
election again, you and I and and now you've become such a
48:03
great voice for so many different things like we talked
48:06
about earlier, introducing people to the world of the
48:11
unknown, the reentry world and and incarceration and all the
48:15
different things that surround that.
48:17
Yeah. So it's it's and I know you
48:21
talked about a lot of other things too, healthcare and
48:22
things that you do, but I it's it's and I know there's a lot of
48:27
responsibility that goes with all that.
48:28
You know, you, you are a great voice role model to be talking
48:37
about things that are so important that there's such a
48:40
strong negative narrative that you're breaking through that
48:43
piece by piece, piece by piece, piece by piece.
48:47
And it's a big deal. So what's you're getting?
48:50
LCD, you're up for an election. Right now I am right now
48:54
November, so this will be my third election that I'm going to
48:58
win. It's not as difficult.
49:01
I think you won by 68 percent or something last time, right?
49:04
Yeah, and and. You've done a good job.
49:06
So, yeah, the first and second time, the first one was the most
49:10
difficult because there were several, you know, Democrats
49:13
that were running in an open seat.
49:16
And so, and one was a sitting city Councilwoman for like 20
49:19
years. And I was new in politics.
49:21
And so it was difficult, but I won and and that was in 2020 and
49:28
then I got re elected in 2022 and now I'm up again.
49:31
Every two years we run. But you know, I am, you know,
49:35
we're a part time citizen legislature.
49:37
We are looking at going to more of a full time.
49:39
It's, it's hard to find, you know, work that you can like do
49:43
part time and then leave during session.
49:46
And the session is all consuming.
49:49
It's not a glamorous life. It's not a, a, a life you will
49:52
make money on, but it is a purposeful life and it's always
49:58
a balance trying to figure out how to, you know, supplement my
50:01
income and, and, and all of that.
50:05
I've been pretty fortunate so far.
50:07
But This is why it's hard for people from our kind of
50:10
backgrounds to get into politics because especially the structure
50:14
here where it's a part time citizen legislature.
50:18
But you know, I've been able to do so many great things for our
50:21
people. I mean, millions, hundreds of
50:23
millions of dollars has been redirected to reentry in my
50:27
state. Nonprofits like that was never
50:31
happening before I got elected. My first freshman bill restored
50:35
the right to vote for people as soon as they exit prison.
50:38
Even if they're in jail, if they're in a halfway House of
50:41
work release, even if they're on community custody, even if they
50:43
have fines and fees. Doesn't matter as long as your
50:46
head isn't on a 24 hour state issued prison pillow, you're
50:51
voting the next day. I love that.
50:54
I, you know, make sure people now are released with a six
50:57
month housing voucher no matter what, everyone, you're not going
51:00
home homeless anymore. That's huge.
51:03
I have abolished all mandatory fines and fees unless it is
51:07
restitution to an actual victim. You know, I've removed some
51:11
barriers for us to get into healthcare jobs because if I
51:15
need a caregiver and my son has a robbery or in a murder charge,
51:18
I should still be able to choose that he's my caregiver.
51:21
Yep. And getting paid for that.
51:22
So it's those. Are all big things you just
51:26
said, Tara. Those are monumental things
51:29
because those are the things that cycle people back when they
51:32
didn't want to be back. It just cycled them back.
51:35
And those things, because you went through it, you know, those
51:38
are big things. Yeah, I absolutely do.
51:41
And I have been working on conditions.
51:42
I've got the guys in prison and women in prison, a raise finally
51:46
for their labor. I've been working to get it even
51:49
more. But you know, I've just been
51:51
able to do a lot of things around conditions and re entry.
51:55
I've been working really hard on sentencing reform.
51:58
I feel like I'm really close on one of my bills that would allow
52:01
a second look for people doing long sentences, but it's it's
52:06
that is the hardest one is sentencing reform, especially
52:08
retroactive sentencing reform. Well, and I think there's some
52:11
things on the federal side through the CARES Act where you
52:14
can look at some of those great statistics now to see what's
52:17
happened when people have gone home to home confinement and the
52:20
recidivism is real low. And there's reasons why that can
52:23
work both state and federal. And hopefully those changes
52:27
anything on the federal side because they keep Johnson back
52:29
and forth on that, But. I know, I know.
52:32
Yeah. Tariff.
52:33
I was gonna ask you what cuz it's, it's always interesting to
52:38
hear somebody who's gone through what you've gone through and how
52:41
you've gone through it. What do you think is your
52:45
biggest take away through all this?
52:50
You know, I think it's just like, never give up.
52:57
That's a big, you know, if you can dream it, you can be it.
53:04
There's always a way. Always.
53:06
So even if I, like, wanted to be a nurse or a doctor and I wasn't
53:09
able to vacate my record, you know, I could go for a pardon
53:12
from the governor. Like people don't.
53:13
And you don't know what you don't know.
53:15
And so, like, keep reaching out. Don't give up.
53:17
Like, ask other people because it is true.
53:20
Like, a lot of our people just don't have access to the
53:23
information. They don't even know.
53:25
They don't know. They don't know that they could
53:27
be a lawyer. They don't know that they could
53:29
be a doctor. They don't know.
53:30
But don't ever give up on your dreams or let some man made law
53:35
stop you, because laws are made to be changed.
53:38
So true. And there you sit and I don't
53:41
know, can you talk about what's next for you?
53:45
I mean, yeah, I, you know, I don't have a lot of ambition or
53:51
desire to go to DC to be in Congress.
53:54
I just, I just don't really, I love being here local in my
53:59
community. You know, people have asked me
54:02
to run for, you know, statewide office like governor or
54:04
something. I don't have that desire either.
54:08
I, you know, potentially would go into the Senate position here
54:14
in my district when my seatmate, you know, exits that Outside of
54:20
that, you know, I want to continue to do work to help
54:25
elevate other people who have been incarcerated as well into
54:29
positions of power, whether that's becoming lawyers or
54:33
getting elected to offices. I really want there to be
54:37
representation across America in the state houses because that's
54:41
where a lot of this. That could be huge.
54:43
That's how the voice happens, yeah.
54:44
Connecting all those voices together and become one voice to
54:47
be able to make real change. Yeah, because what I've noticed
54:51
is that, you know, when I get to know my colleagues and then
54:53
issues come up, they listen to me and they become educated.
54:56
They don't know, but they don't know.
54:58
And they don't know about, you know, women needing menstrual,
55:03
you know, material in prison and how we have to pay for it.
55:06
Or they just don't know the little things.
55:08
And when they find out, they're like, Oh my gosh, you're.
55:11
Going to be different. So just being there, my presence
55:15
has really made a difference. So I want that across the state,
55:19
across the nation. And I think it can happen, and I
55:21
think it should happen because I, I get to interview a lot of
55:23
people across the nation and there's all kinds of pockets
55:26
everywhere. You know, Michigan's got some
55:28
great stuff going, Connecticut's got some, all these different
55:30
states. And if we could connect it all,
55:33
that's where the power comes from with the voice.
55:35
And it's people like you, Tara, that are making that happen.
55:38
So don't stop doing that. We just need to bottle you up,
55:41
duplicate you, clone you, and then we'll be good.
55:44
That's what I need as a team because I do try to stay, keep
55:48
us connected. Like the I'm like the leader in
55:51
the convener. I've got them coming out, you
55:53
know, in September to go do prison tours.
55:56
But there might be others out there who I don't know about.
55:59
And like you want them to be connected to a space and then
56:02
all of us working together to kind of help others get into the
56:06
spaces and having some support. So that's kind of what I'm
56:09
dreaming about right now. I love.
56:11
It it's just all good stuff for and you're are you?
56:18
Did you say you're working on a book?
56:20
I am. I have a complete proposal and
56:23
some sample chapters and I'm shopping agents right now do.
56:27
You think that'll be part of your world out there?
56:31
You know, I would imagine within the next year I have the
56:35
extended outline drafted. I could finish it myself, but
56:39
I'm also kind of shopping agents right now to see if I can get.
56:43
Incredible, incredible book, incredible movie.
56:47
If anybody else is looking for a book out there, I've got one
56:50
that's already out there while you're waiting for Tara's.
56:52
It was nightmare success. It's on Barnes and Noble,
56:54
Walmart. I want to thank Homestead
56:56
Financial. They they let me use all this
56:58
stuff in here for the and we had a little bit of a problem today
57:02
with Tara put me in a cold sweat.
57:03
I could get my microphone to work.
57:05
So what do we have like 3 or 4 minutes there of just a cold
57:08
sweater. Brett Cassidy, Yeah, people.
57:12
Gosh. Please follow, subscribe, like
57:14
comment. It means a lot to the show.
57:16
Also, those apples reviews, they meet a lot.
57:19
If you want to find about about me, it's brentcassidy.com.
57:22
I spell it wrong. It's with ATY, not a DY.
57:26
And as I used to say when I was writing my emails back and forth
57:29
from Leavenworth, stay strong. I'll do the same.
57:32
Tara Simmons, you are incredible.
57:35
Thank you so much for being on today.
57:37
Yeah, thanks for having me, and thanks for all you do to inspire
57:41
others too. I appreciate that nightmare
57:43
success in and out.