Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / From Mod Beginnings to Rock Legends: Exploring The Small Faces and Faces Discography [Episode 208]

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From Mod Beginnings to Rock Legends: Exploring The Small Faces and Faces Discography [Episode 208] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

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Being a mud It was not like a sort of a financial thing or a
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sort of stages thing in that way. He was just being aware, being
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part of the in crowd, being just that one step ahead. We're totally
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booked rock and roll. I mean, I'll leave you. You're reading.
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Little Hands says it's time to rock and roll. Roll up, we are
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totally booked. Welcome back to Booked on Rock, the podcast for those about
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Our guest is Andrew Darlington. He's the author of the brand new book Small
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Faces and the Faces, Every Album, Every Song. It started out as
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a mod four piece with Steve Marriott on lead vocals, with hit singles including
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Itchi Kou Park, Lazy, Sunday, All or Nothing and Tin Soldier.
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They evolved into one of the UK's most successful bands by the end of the
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sixties. After Marriott left the band to form Humble Pie. The remaining members
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Ronnie Lane, Ian McLagan and Kenny Jones joined forces with singer Rod Stewart and
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guitarist Ronnie Wood to start a new era as Faces. The band's nineteen seventy
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one album A Nod Is As Good As a Wink to a Blind Horse became
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a worldwide hit thanks to the single Stay with Me. But by the mid
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seventies, Faces was no more and the members would go on to forge new
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phases of their careers, most notably Rod Stewart. But the music of the
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Small Faces and Faces is not forgotten. In the latest book in Sonic Bond's
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on Track series, Darlington lays up the full story of the Small Faces and
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Faces, song by song, from the very start to the very end.
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A playlist of Small Faces and Faces on the show notes page. Welcome to
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the podcast, Andrew, I'm looking forward to talking Small Faces and Faces.
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Brilliant. Yeah, great introduction in the book that I think is important to
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understand the story of small Faces as far as where they form and when they
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form. When when you hear about or you read about nineteen sixties British youth
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culture, the word we often hear is mod and that's an abbreviation for the
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word modern, as in modern fashion, modern music, and scooters for modern
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is right. So and you write, quote, this was our tribe,
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our time, our generation. Can you take us back to that time?
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Yeah, I mean I was never one hundred percent mod because I had a
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big hundred three or five motorbike and and all the sort of little mods land
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bridges. But I went for the Honda option because the Beach Boys did a
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song called Little Honda When do you know that one? But yeah, I
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mean to me, I mean being a mud It was not like a sort
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of a financial thing or a sort of stages thing in that way. He
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was just being aware, you know what I mean, being part of the
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in crowd, being just that one step ahead, and you know, like
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the in crowd, that was the kind of thing. You know, you
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always knew the latest dances, you always knew the latest moves, you always
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had the latest clothes, all this kind of thing, you know. I
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mean there was Mick Jagger sang painted black on top of the top of the
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pops and he wore a floral silk shirt. Right. So the very next
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day I went into town and I bought a silk floral shirt just like Mick
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Jagger. You know, I had the little cravat, and I had the
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sort of must of colored PVC jacket, and I had the sort of tight
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hips to trousers that were so tight I could barely sit down. I had
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the cuban heels pointed to shoes just like the Beatles go with all the buckles
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up the side, you know. So, I mean I was never totally
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in board. Bro was definitely you know you read you're into all the sort
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of motown and the tax records. I mean that was that was part of
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it. And there was you know, there are number number of little more
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bands knocking about the Attack Action, you know, Gina Washington, Ram Jam
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Bandup Money, Georgie Fame. They were all kind of mod bands. Of
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course, The Who, I mean they became the sort of leading sort of
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mod band. And the small Faces I mean they were they were in there,
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I mean faces. I mean, I don't know whether you know,
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but the Who when they were the high numbers. It is a single called
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I'm the Face, which means I'm the mod and sort of trend trend setter,
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That's what it meant. And that's where the name small Faces comes from,
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because I mean they were a smaller statue. Yeah, well that was
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the other thing. Yeah, they are little guys, yeah, but it
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was they were kind of a trend tend setters as well. And the first
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record was What's Going to Do About It? Which I mean, now they
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have sampling technology, don't they were. They sort of sample old records and
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all this kind of thing and remix them and put them all together in new
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configurations. Well, of course that technology did not exist in those days.
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But Small Faces took the rhythm from Solomon Burks Everybody needs Somebody to load,
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you know, that one, and they took the title of a Doris Troy
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song, What's You Going to Do About It? And they put the two
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together and Steve Marriott did a really long, extended sort of guitar solo in
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the middle which had a really long sort of extended note and that made it
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pop art or op art, and that was basically the first single, and
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it sort of charted, It got into top twenty, you know, and
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it sort of broke broke down and they became sort of the you know,
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they sort of broke through and Jimmy Winston was the at that time. He
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was on keyboards. The original lineup feature who it was Ronnie Lane, Kenny
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Jones against and Steve Marriott yeah yeah, and Jimmy Winston. Yeah, but
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there was you know, you would have thought that with such a spectacular breakthrough
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single that the follow up would have sort of charted as well. But I
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mean it was a very competitive period, a lot of bands coming out with
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a lot of sort of the first Clast recordings and the second Small Faces record
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was I Got Mine, which was a very good record, extremely compressed sound
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and it was, you know, a beautifully constructed little record, but for
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one reason or another, it failed to chart. I mean, there was
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a movie called Dateline for Diamonds and they briefly appeared in that doing I Got
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Mine with Jimmy Winston in the lineup. And I don't know whether you're aware
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of the pirate radio station phenomenon in the UK. Oh yeah, yeah,
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and there was a great movie on that too, about maybe ten years maybe
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more now, but yeah, as a longtime radio guy, I was I'm
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always fascinated with that, that story of pirate radio. Yeah, I mean,
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like at the beginning of the sixties, all there was with the BBC.
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The BBC had the monopoly. There were no commercial stations whatsoever. And
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the BBC had a kind of a patronizing attitude to pop music. You know,
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pop music is sort of a baddy thing, you know for kids,
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and they never took it seriously. So, you know, particularly when the
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Beatles happened and the whole thing exploded, when new bands coming in, the
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new records, all the short of thing, you know, the BBC got
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kind of very quickly outdated. So he got all these like pirate radio stations
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who were on boats literally on ships, yeah, and on ships outside the
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territorial limits, so they were not subject to British law and they could get
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advertising and then they could broadcast all these sure records, you know, and
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that's how you know, it was vital. But from all of us kids
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at the time, you know, to sort of he wroll his he wrote
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his music and yeah, despite all that I got, mine sort of failed
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and disappeared. And that's more or less when Jimmy Winston sort of quit and
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went and went sideways. I mean, you know, there's been lots of
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sort of you know, widerly was he pushed all this kind of thing and
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I prefer to think of it as you know, like when Ringo Star replaced
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the beat replaced Beat Best the Beatles, I mean John Lennon in a rare
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moment of tact he said, well, beat Best was a good drummer,
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but Ringo Star was a good beatle. And I think it was the same
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with you know, Jimmy was a good keyboard player, but Ian mccleggen,
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he was a good small face. He pitted the image, he pitched the
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he fitted the whole thing. So the next single was I mean, they're
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obviously looking around. It sort of needed something to recoup that lost momentum,
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so they selected a song by Kenny Lynch. I don't know whether you probably
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don't know Kenny Lynch is no. He was a popular sort of the popular
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guy in the UK. He was. He was one of the first sort
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of black sort of stars in pop music had. He had a number of
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sort of hit singles in his own right, including a cover of Up on
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the Roof that Drifted Up on the Roof and he had puff Up and Smoke
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Not Like Not with Peter Paul and Mary's song, and he did you Can
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Never Stop Me Leaving You that was a big hit for him in the UK,
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but he was actually he actually toured with the Beatles very very early Beatles
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tours when there was Hellishpiro, who was a big teenage star in the UK
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at the time. She was topping the bill, the Beatles were supporting,
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and there's Kenny Lynch at the bottom, and of course the Beatles Lennon McCartney.
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They wanted to become I mean, they asked Paul McCartney, you know
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what's going to happen when the Beatles' bubble bursts, and he says, we
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want to become like Goffin and King. You know, we're going to write
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songs for other people. So they were keen to sort of get their songs
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across to but to other artists to record. And they wrote a song called
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Misery, which is on the first Beatles album and they wrote it specifically for
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Helen Shapiro. Helen Shapiro turned it down or how management turned it down.
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But Kenny Lynch was listening and he thought good song that so he actually recorded
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it himself and he was the first guy to actually do a cover version of
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a Beatles song. Interesting piece of trivia. Yeah, rock history trivia there
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and anyway he was, Yeah, he'd written a song called shall shall La
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La La Lee? Right, that's the Small Face's second single hit hit single.
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Yeah, and you know, I mean there was like do what did
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he did? He there was a do wrong wrong, all these sort of
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things you know that didn't really mean anything, but this sort of sound sounded
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good and Challa La La Lee was the same kind of thing, you know,
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and it was ont of a light catchy what song, but if you
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listen to the lyrics, it's sort of like and he goes picked her up
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on a Friday night. I knew everything was going to be all right.
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You know, which sounds you know, but it's just like the mates were
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talking in the pub, you know, it was like he was in that
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sort of demotic sort of way of talking, just like two two two guys
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talking, Oh yeah, I met this bird, you know, picked her
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up on a Friday night. I knew everything was going to be all right.
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You know that that kind of sort of simple dialogue which people people could
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connect to. And I said, where do you want to go? She
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said somewhere? I don't know. You know, it's kind of a naturalistic
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dialogue and Steve Marriott. He gave it a really good, you know,
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vocal performance, and you know it sort of went into the charts and got
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them too. It was a big hit. After that, it was all
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help written material for the single, right, well, that was Wasn't that
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a frustration? Early on? They said, we want to write our own
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stuff, that's right? Yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean everybody
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sort of starts out doing covers, you know, covers the still and started
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to cover everyone's side and doing covers, but eventually you've got to sort of
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move on and write your own material, you know, like Andrew Golden said,
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he said that, you know, there's not an endless reservoir of all
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blues songs, you know, old R and B songs to cover. You
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know, you've got to write your own songs. So there are versions all
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or Nothing, you know, which be a brilliant single, which sort of
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caught that sort of mod moment to perfection. And I mean again, I
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mean decades ago, Frank Sinatra did a song called all or Nothing at All.
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So whether they've sort of got that title and so oh, you know,
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good title. So well, speaking of that, I was going to
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ask you about the first album, the self titled debut May eleventh, nineteen
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sixty six. It was recorded, are released, and there's a song in
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there, and you write about this in the book. This has what You're
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going to Do about it? In Sha La La Lee is on there,
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number three album. By the way, But I was listening on Spotify and
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I'm listening and I'm boy, I'm thinking, boy, this one song sounds
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familiar. It sounds like the lyrics the led Zeppelins, whole lot of Love,
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And sure enough you cover it in the book and you write, quote,
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this epic recording has a complex history as well as a litigious future.
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So what's the story behind this song You Need Loving? It dates back to
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even be four Small Faces. Oh yeah, I mean, you know,
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like I said, the what You're Gonna Do About it was sort of taking
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a bit from Solomon Burke, you know, and certainly they were sort of
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taking bits from like Muddy Waters and all things like that, you know,
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Muddy Waters, bb King, you know, they were taking things things from
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there, and you can trace roots back through that. But but yeah,
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I mean, you Need Loving was a brilliant performance. And obviously, I
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mean Jimmy Page was a session musician. He was knocking around at the time
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he was listening, he was thinking, Ah, pretty good song, li
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you know. So yeah, I mean if you listen to the lad Zeppelin
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track, it's sort of yeah, the way down inside. Yeah, that's
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that's where you hear that the similarities they got the original you Need Love when
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Muddy Waters recorded a really Dixon song. So, I mean you could say
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that both the Small Faces and led Zeppelin were both plundering black music, you
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know. I mean whether the Small Faces were like a sort of a you
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know, a connection, you know, I mean, they're both plumping black
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music in the innocence. But yeah, I mean the Small Faces you had
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All or Nothing. That was a number one in fact, that knocked the
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Beatles Yellow Submarine off the top of the top of off the top of the
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charts. That was the first number one, and the the title they hit
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the headline and the music press them was Faces Sync sub I love it.
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Yeah, I thought was quite nice. And they had other hits after that.
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You know, Hey, Girl in My Mind's Eye right right right right,
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which is on the compilation album that came next right from the beginning,
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or it was released that same month. Yeah, just a different label.
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I think that's that's what it was. They changed labels, so the new
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label they wanted to get caught up on the back catalog and put it all
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on one album. Oh yeah, I mean they were signed to Don Arden,
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who, as we all know, was some kind of a gangster figure,
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and right Decca Records was the first label they were on. Okay,
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so they left Deca the deal with deal with decades and Don Adam he gave
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them credit cards so they could go down Carliby Street and get all the latest
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more gear, you know, for the photo shoots. He gave them that.
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And also he gave them a house to live in, you know,
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like like like the monkeys, you know, where you all live together in
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the house. Although Ian mcgleggen was actually sixteen years old, he was too
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young, so he was technically living with his parents. But you know,
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and then Don Adam put them on a wage. You know, they're on
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like thirty five puitty a week or something like that, and they had number
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one hit, yeah, the number one hit record, and you're still getting
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the same money, you know what I mean. I mean, bands have
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always been screwed apparently, you know, since the beginning of the record industry,
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you know, because when you're young, if they put a contract in
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front of it, you'll sign anything just to get that, just to get
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your name on that record. And then later on, you know, when
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you're sort of topping tours, you know, topping you know tours, and
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he got big selling records. You think, hang on a minute, it
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was all the money go into and you started to think, you know,
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hang on a minute, we've been screwed here. So so yeah, he
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went through a long legal process to get out of Don Arden's contract and out
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of Decca Records, and they re signed to Andrew Lou Goldham's immediate you know,
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because Andrew, you know, he'd been the Ruddy Stones manager. He
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was a smart, young, hip, young gunslinger, and he wanted to
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create his own record label with the kind of a family vibe like Motown.
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I mean, not in the sense of being you know, black artists like
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Motown, but with that same sort of family family feel, you know.
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And you know, and he could speak a good line, you know,
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he could he could seduce the he could seduce the balance, and I think
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basically well intentioned, you know, that's what he wanted. And you know,
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immediate obviously was Rolling Stone's money back there in the Rolling Stones were writing
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hits for like Marine, Faithful and Chris Farlow, you know, and so
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yeah, there was Immediate Records and the Small Faces signed to Immediate and the
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very first single was here Come the Nice, which was a sort of an
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extension on what an extension on what they've done. It was their own song,
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but it was like a little bit more experimental, little bit more way
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out. They don't have any money and yet they've got a bunch of hit
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singles. Hey Girl was number ten, My Mind's Eye was number four,
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All or Nothing number one, which, by the way, that was written
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by Steve Marriott and Ronnie Lane. And you say that song is the undisputed
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peak of the band's period recording with Decca that a little bit. Why do
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you feel that way? And well, I mean Paul Weller took that little
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guitar lick and he was that on one the Mother's solo records. You know,
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it was. It was tight, well produced. It's a brilliant little
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song. I mean, you just see the video of them performing oh Nothing,
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and you know, the bright and sharp and young and pep and you
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know, it's all it's all in there in that like two and a half
19:18
minutes. Oh whatever, you know, it's a brilliant little single. Podcasts.
19:22
We'll be back after this. We'll be back with the Magic Tones for
19:26
the Armada Rooms to our disco swing party after this short break till then,
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don't you go change it? Ichiku Park number three Tin Soldier we haven't talked
19:37
about yet. A number nine single, Itchikup Park ends up hitting number sixteen
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in the US, which I think might have been their first US hit single
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only the only American only. Yeah, you know the book that Ronnie claimed
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to have adapted the melody from an old hymn called to God Be in My
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Head and then as a starting point, took a handful of phrases from a
19:57
magazine feature he'd found in a bristolo room. That's cool and sonically it features
20:02
something called phasing or flanging. Can you explain what that is? How they
20:06
get that effect? Because this is pre pro tools era. This is the
20:10
technology of today, and I know this whole trick from my radio days,
20:12
But if you can explain how you get that flanging sound. Briefly, phasing
20:18
became the sound all the bands wanted it. I mean, the Beatles did
20:22
it on Lucien's Sky with Diamonds, status codd it on the Pictures of Magetic
20:26
Men. But I think if you grew back with Small Faces was the most
20:30
was the best use of phasing essentially. I mean, you got like twenty
20:37
four track recording equipment at that time, and what did you got two two
20:45
tapes running slightly out of phase sort of hissing, surging, warping sound,
20:56
which I say briefly became the sort of the the sound of the sound of
21:00
sixty seven and Tin Soldier is quote the greatest three minutes, sixteen seconds that
21:06
the Small Faces ever recorded and one of the greatest tracks of the nineteen sixties.
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Explain why you feel that way? A very complex layered mix of things
21:15
we hear in here speaking of production, Yeah, yeah, I mean it
21:18
was it was a highly competitive time in all the bands were trying to get
21:25
that one step ahead, you know. I mean, the Yardbirds were there,
21:27
they were pushing the envelope, you know, obviously the Beagles and the
21:30
Stones were there, you know, and the whole I mean, in very
21:33
competitive time, and all your career resided on that next single. If he
21:41
got in the charts, you know, so there was all you know,
21:44
there's a lot of steak and I mean there was one interesting thing about he
21:49
comes a Nice. I mean the BBC, I mean they were very sort
21:53
of sensitive about any any drug references. I mean when Sergeant Pepper came out
21:59
the band and Day in the Life because of the supposed drug reference. But
22:03
they missed it. But they missed out entirely that Lucian Sky with diamonds spelled
22:07
l s T right, and when you listen, he comes to nice,
22:14
he said, he goes, he comes a nice looking so cool. He's
22:22
always there when when I need some speed, you know. I mean that's
22:26
a direct drug reference. But they don't seem to have noticed that. Yeah,
22:33
Tin Soldier, I was, but yeah, talking about Tin Soldier.
22:36
The production on that yeah yeah, which by the way, I think was
22:40
recorded at Olympic Studios, the legendary Olympic Studios in London. Yeah, I
22:45
mean obviously it was based on the on the story, you know, the
22:48
the Hans Christian Anderson story about the tin. The tin was Andrew Golden's idea
22:56
for immediate was all the all the artists should should work together, you know,
23:00
and Steve Marriott and Ronnie Lane appear on the Rolling Stones album Satiatic Majesties.
23:07
You know they sing on the track on the track there. You know,
23:11
they all work together. And there was a pp Arnold. I don't
23:15
know where you know pprld, but she was originally with She came from San
23:18
Francisco and she's originally with I. Cantina Churney's I Kets were sort of backing
23:26
vocalists for the Cantina Turning Show and Thecontina Turner Show. Came over to London
23:33
to play some concerts and p p Rnold Pat Arnold. She's a beautiful,
23:40
a beautiful person, you know, beautiful, sort of friendly, outgoing character
23:44
and she immediately got sort of drawn into the London hip hip scene. And
23:48
when I Coontina Turner went back to the States, she sort of stayed in
23:52
England and she got a record contract with Andrew Golden and she had a hit
23:57
single with the First the Deepest. That was the first one either the one
24:03
Okay, interesting, I didn't know that, and then you know, I
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said, the all work together in the studio. H the Small Faces did
24:12
a record for her called if you Think, If, If you Think You're
24:15
groovy which has the Small Faces playing in the background, and she sings the
24:19
vocals on the front and of course for the tin Soldier, I mean she
24:25
actually sings the high notes on since on tin Soldier. And there's a brilliant
24:32
video clip which you can easily find on on YouTube of the Small Faces with
24:37
BPR no standing there and that is mesmerized. That's my favorite video video clip
24:44
of all the time. And I've seen the hell of a lot of them,
24:45
you know, and that is brilliant. It's sort of again, it's
24:49
tight, it's economical. The guitar solo, it's sort of neat, and
24:53
you know, it builds to a crescendo. It's a beautiful little production.
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And it was and I think Steve Marriott wrote it initially for pprold. Yeah
25:03
they kept it. Yeah, that sounds likely. I mean the churdre with
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PPR and you know, I say, whereas with with Decca, they were
25:15
sort of assigned an our studio time and had to get in there record the
25:18
B side because the B side get out well. Andrew la Golden gave them
25:22
with immediate which he gave them limitless studio time they could, you know,
25:27
they sort of went in there and they could just play around with all the
25:30
according equipment, which is how Flake came about. The next album. Yeah,
25:37
yeah, the next album, which I'll say it was a plastic album
25:40
of the of the time, and he was like it was a concept album
25:45
to an extent in fact that the second side sort of tells this sort of
25:48
fairy story which is a bit a bit silly, but there again some of
25:52
the psychedelia stuff. What's silly that was? That was part of it.
25:56
You know, it's not meant to be, not meant to be sort of
26:00
heavy or serious. I mean, I think what is behind that title and
26:04
what is the concept of that. Ogden's Nut Gone Flake. I think in
26:10
the seventies, you know, prog rock got very serious, didn't it,
26:14
you know, very sort of pretentious. But around the time of Ogden Look
26:18
Gone Flake, there was still there's still a playful elements. One of the
26:22
weird things about Ogna's Nutgne Flake is it was issued in a circular tin.
26:29
You know, it wasn't it didn't have a sleeve. It was circular,
26:32
and it was modeled on uh smoking tobacco. No. Originally, when he
26:38
went into the Tobacconists you didn't get cigarettes or whatever. You got a little
26:42
tint of tobacco and you ruled your own and that's what it was. Ogden's
26:48
Nutflake was a brand of tobacco rulling you know, cigarette tobacco. Because again
26:52
there was like a bit of an in joke in there because when you rule,
26:56
you joined and you sprinkled it with cannabis. That was part of the
27:03
part of the in joke. But you know that was based on it was
27:07
a based on this released in late May of sixty eight. Yeah, and
27:12
it the number hit number fifteen in June and then climbed to number one by
27:19
the end of June, stayed there for six weeks. I think it was
27:22
number one in the UK charts. At its most competitive. I mean,
27:27
there was the Beatles, there was the Stones, the Who, there was
27:30
the everybody was around in and also in America there was like Jefferson and I
27:33
are playing Grateful Dead. All that A lot was started to go, you
27:37
know, and you know, there was all this sort of different, sort
27:41
of different definition of hip coming in. I mean, you know, one
27:48
of the things about being a mod was that it was exclusive, that you
27:52
were different. You were you know, I mean, you had that sort
27:56
of cult a feel, but increasingly mod got bigger and bigger and bigger,
28:00
and everything was mud more than its own magazines and all this sort of thing,
28:03
you know, and you felt, well, it lost that exclusivity.
28:07
But instead there was all this kind of psychedelia moving in and that was even
28:12
hippa, that was even trendier, you know. So all these bands,
28:15
little mod bands, tried psychedelicizing, and I suppose that's what the Small Faces
28:22
did to an extent, the sort of using studio technology. And it had
28:26
a big single, Lazy Sunday from that albums that was a that was a
28:30
huge boost to the album sales, I'm sure. Yeah. And speaking of
28:34
what does it mean, there's there's a line in that song Lazy Sunday,
28:37
which, by the way, Marriott and Lane wrote Steve Marriott and Ronne Lane.
28:41
The line is, I'll sing you a song with no words and no
28:44
tune to sing in the Kazi while you suss out the moon. Please explain
28:49
what that means. I bet that would confu with American listeners. Yea.
28:57
The second side of the album, right is this sort of linked story where
29:06
the moon goes missing, the guy comes out of his cave and the moon
29:10
is gone. That is a reference in Lazy Sunday, I mean the small
29:15
phase. He didn't want that tract to be issued as a single, although
29:18
then I think it's brilliant, Wow, surprising, Yeah, because I mean
29:23
they plunder the BBC effect discs. He had like discs with sound effects on
29:32
right, which is where the sort of sound of the waves comes from,
29:34
and the gulls and the bells and all that sort of thing. And you
29:38
know, they sort of used all those, you know, to enhance late
29:42
Lazy Sunday. And then yeah, I say the that's a bit about south
29:48
of the Moon. That's a reference to the to the other side of the
29:51
album. The Kazi is a name for in the old terraced houses, the
29:56
old working class terrace houses in the UK, they had an outside toilet.
30:02
Right, you went out the back door, you went across the yard.
30:06
The toilet was a separate building there, right, Okay, now I get
30:12
it. They call it like a porter party. Here in the USA,
30:17
that was called the kazi. That was the you know, that was sort
30:22
of slang slang term. Get you go to the kasi. I mean you
30:25
go to the toilet, you go you go take a lico or whatever.
30:27
So that's what that line means, you sit on the Also on Lady Sunday,
30:33
I don't think when they know they do the roading stone and satisfaction rift
30:40
do do do do Oh? I never picked up on that. And Lazy
30:44
Sunday. Huh. It's like a little injure, you know, because me
30:48
and your mates out of the moon. Ah, Now it all makes sense,
30:52
okay. Also on Lady Sunday, I don't think when they know they
30:57
do the roadding to ourn a satisfaction riff do do do oh? I never
31:03
picked up on that, and Lazy Sunday. Huh. It's like a little
31:07
injure, you know, because me and your mates podcast will be back after
31:14
this. Now you wait here, I'll be right back. Andrew Darlington is
31:19
the author of Small Faces in the Faces, Every Album, Every Song.
31:23
Arden's Nut Gone Flake, the last studio album under the original lineup. What
31:27
led to Steve Marriatt's departure. They've got trapped into the Decca contract and now
31:33
they were in the immediate contract and then I say, I think Andrew Loglden
31:38
was well intentioned, but financially it was a bit of a shambles, and
31:42
the whole thing sort of fell apart. I mean I interviewed Popold and she
31:48
was saying, well, you know, they were left with no money,
31:51
and in fact, the Small Faces mainly continued litigation for years and years and
31:56
years to get the rightful royalties, and in fact, eventually it was it
32:02
was legally resolved and he got them money. But by then Steve Marriet was
32:06
dead, you know, it was it was like too late for him.
32:08
So so yeah, they were sort of signed to immediate and then say it
32:17
was falling apart around their ears, and the only way they could get out
32:21
of the contract basically was by splitting up. I mean they were contracted had
32:25
the Small Faces. So Stave Marrier he he befriended Peter Frampton who had been
32:34
in a band called The Herd, who'd had a few hits, and he
32:37
wanted to sort of where he formed Humble Pie. So he sort of split
32:42
off to form Humble Pie. And that was basically why why the Small Faces
32:49
broke up. I think it was a frustration in a sense that you know,
32:52
they was looking that he was looking in that trap. I mean,
32:55
there was bond final single was lifted from ubbing look conflict called after Glove of
33:01
Your Love, which I think, which I think is a brilliant track.
33:06
But yeah, and Peter Frampton and Steve Marriott formed Humble Pie. Was I
33:12
mean, they relentlessly toured America. So then the rest of the guys they
33:15
don't know what's going to happen next. And to Rod Stewart Ronnie wood Yeah,
33:20
so you quote Rod in a Melody Maker article, he says, I
33:24
never dreamed anyone in Britain would want to listen to me and Woody and three
33:29
of the old small faces. They did, and so did us fans.
33:32
How did how did Roden and Jeff end up joining Ronnie Lane bassist Ronnie Lane
33:37
keyboards, he and mcleaghen and drummer Kenny Jones. Steve Marriott was a brilliant
33:43
front man. He was the lead guitarist and he was also the vocalist.
33:49
It was just you know, it was it was co writer. So so
33:52
they had to replace Steve Marriott basically. And then you know Rod Stewart,
33:58
he was he was an okay singer, well, he couldn't play guitar.
34:04
Ronnie would was a good guitarist. He we you know, he was not
34:08
really a good vocalist. So to replay Steve Marrier, they brought in two
34:14
guys, you know, I mean Rod Stewart and Ronnie would have been together
34:20
in the Jeff Beck group, you know that. I mean Ross stew had
34:23
been hanging around for for a while various singles, and Ronnie would have been
34:29
in the band called the Birds, that's the Birds, not not with the
34:31
y with an eye and and yeah, they were in the Jeff Beck group
34:38
together. Yeah, because ironically, the one hit single in the UK that
34:46
the Jeff Beck Group had was Higher silver Lining, which Mickey Moose the producer,
34:52
you know, I mean Rod su was a vocalist with the Jeff with
34:54
the Jeff Beck Group, but Mickey most to produce. He said, this
34:59
time, I want to try Jeff singing this himself, you know. So
35:04
so Jeff Beck actually sang Higher silver Lining himself and it was a hit,
35:08
and they appeared on TV and there's Rod Stewart who was like supposed to be
35:13
the singer and he was sort of standing to get the back, you know,
35:15
pretending to do how many vocals and things like that. It must have
35:20
been kind of kind of embarrassing for him. I'm sure he loved that,
35:22
right, because him and Jeff did not get along. There was the love
35:28
hate. There a great, great artistic combination, but they had their battles.
35:32
Yeah, I think Jeff Jeff Beck was always a difficult character. I
35:36
mean, he was brilliant with the yards. You know, it's definitely you
35:39
know, his vision of what music should be. Yeah, because Roger was
35:45
sort of self conscious and he didn't want to get up at first, but
35:50
eventually he was sort of coaxed Coach to sort of come along and sing,
35:52
and they jammed on some old blues songs and it worked and it synthesized.
35:59
Yeah. I got I got Rod Stewart's autobiography called Rod, and it kind
36:06
of goes into it there. He's quite he's quite self deprecating, quite sort
36:09
of you know, quite quite amusing. Well, this is my as much
36:15
as I enjoy the Small Faces, this is my favorite version of the Faces
36:21
era Small Faces and Faces. I just love Rod's voice and Ronnie Woods contribution.
36:27
That first album is called First Step. I was released in March of
36:30
seventy, number forty five in the UK, one nineteen in the US,
36:34
so they still had a little ways to go. Before they caught on in
36:37
the US. The Flying is one of the singles were my all time favorite
36:40
Faces songs. There's a track called My Way of Giving, which it was
36:46
originally done by the Small Faces and then they did it with Rod bron Stewart
36:52
doing the vocals. And you can compare the two the two vocals, and
36:58
you know, to me, I mean, Steve Marriott definitely has the edge
37:02
on rodstew I mean, you know, Rod rods to is a good it's
37:06
a good R and B shouter, you know, and particularly like stay with
37:10
Me. I think that's a brilliant Yeah, that's a brilliant rock and roll
37:15
song. I mean it was slaughtered by the feminist movement because at that time,
37:19
a feminist movement was sort of getting big, you know, and basically
37:22
steering me is about, you know, disrespecting a group, isn't it,
37:27
you know, I mean, you know, the feminists thought of that.
37:30
But but but there again, I mean, the Faces toured America relentlessly.
37:37
I mean, there's the adage, but the only way to break America was
37:44
by touring relentlessly. You know, that's the only way you could break because
37:46
it's such a big market that you've got a tour. You've got a tour.
37:50
You've got to be seen, you know. So the Faces were there
37:52
touring and Humble Pie were touring, you know, simultaneously, and yeah,
37:59
I thought, you know, stay with Me was a brilliant the brilliant song.
38:04
They were on their way, but it did take a while for them.
38:07
They had to really work hard to gain a following under this new lineup,
38:10
right, Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, definitely it worked hard.
38:14
I mean they decided that they the other members of the group, they kind
38:22
of suspected lead singers, because lead singers that have used the band as a
38:28
as a way of achieving fame. Well, yeah, that's that's interesting.
38:31
Yeah, because Rod Stewart is he's he's a solo artist while he's in Faces.
38:36
Then he went off, yeah yeah, and then he went off and
38:40
use that as a large pad for their own solo careers, which you know
38:44
Steve had done and which again Rose Stewart did. Yeah, they were in
38:49
a strange situation where they were signed to one label as as the Faces and
38:55
and Rod was also signed to another label as as a solo artist. So
39:00
what label was he under? I know, Warner Brothers signed Faces, was
39:04
he under a different label the UK. Yeah, Phono Drum. Yeah,
39:08
yeah, I'm going back to the beginning of rock and roll. Buddy Holly
39:12
was in the same situation because he was signed as the Crickets, not to
39:16
one label, Buddy Holly a solo performer to another label, which is why
39:23
he managed to produce so much material within the lifetime Mercury looks like here,
39:29
Rod's Gasoline Alley was under Mercury. Yeah, boy, I didn't know it
39:32
was under two different labels, so that's interesting. Yeah, it's kind of
39:37
like it's like Phil Collins and Genesis going back and forth. But it did.
39:42
Actually it helped with the single Stay with Me, because I think that
39:45
was right when or just after Maggie May became a hit, So it helped
39:49
Faces for sure. Second half is nineteen seventy one's long Player and that has
39:52
a live cover of Paul McCartney's Maybe I'm Amazed, And according to the book,
39:57
his comment was funny, is is I didn't realize how good of a
39:59
song it was until I heard the Faces. Yeah, and you know,
40:04
in all fairness, I mean Rod Stewart does give it really good live performance.
40:08
Yeah, Dad in Ruin and had me a real good time. My
40:13
two favorites from that second album. Yeah, great statement you make in the
40:16
book too, quote. If you ever find yourself wondering why the Rolling Stones
40:20
chose Ronnie Wood to complete their lineup, it's only necessary to listen to this
40:23
strutting, guitar driven rocker to understand had me a real good time? I
40:28
think you're referring to Yeah, Yeah, that's right. Yeah, Yeah,
40:30
But I mean as soon as Maggie May became an international hitch, you know,
40:37
I think the writing was on the wall for The Faces. I mean
40:40
it's pretty inevitable from that point on that he would, you know, he
40:45
would go his own, his own way. I mean on the Faces albums
40:50
and on the Rod Stewart albums, there's pretty much the same sort of musicians.
40:53
I mean he sort of uses more studio musicians on his own albums.
40:59
You're right, Yeah, it sounds very Faces like those first few albums there.
41:02
Yeah, I say they're a good time band them in the Yeah.
41:07
Then that third album goes to number two in the UK Top ten us and
41:13
that is a nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse?
41:17
And what's behind that title? Well, I mean, that's another sort of
41:22
cockney saying. It means between me and you, you understand, you know,
41:28
it's you know, I'm not as good as a wink to a blind
41:31
you know. It's that kind of cockney saying. You know, just like
41:36
Khazi or something like that. You know where they they drag this kind of
41:39
thing in which is you know, which is good? Yeah? And Stay
41:45
with Me is in that in that collection of songs number six to UK seventeen
41:49
in the US, they actually had gone further than the Small Faces ever did
41:55
with this album, which is which is crazy. As much as I love
42:00
Stay with Me, my personal pick is Debris Ronnie Lane, written and sung
42:06
by Ronnie and you right quote. Ronnie sings a tribute to his bus driver
42:09
father, Stanley Lane, amidst the Hardscrabble, East End Blitz Debris. If
42:15
you had to pick a favorite from this album, which would it be?
42:17
Is it Debris? Is it a different one on that album? Does it
42:22
stay with me? Oh? A lot of time to stay with me?
42:24
I always like that one. Yeah. I mean when he was the original
42:29
Small Faces, it was all down to singles, you know, I mean,
42:31
singles was the sort of common currency you know, your single had to
42:36
get to get into the charts. If we didn't go to the charts,
42:38
you know you're in trouble. But when you move into the seventies, when
42:42
he was the Faces, things had moved on and it was like albums that
42:45
was the major thing. Then. You know, you had to be an
42:49
album artist to be to be credible, you know, to get that sort
42:52
of respect, artistic respect. And yeah, I mean yeah, I think
43:00
it was a good R and B blues shouter, and he was good,
43:04
you know, he was good with the Faces, But I think you know,
43:06
once he once he left, got into the disco stuff, I mean,
43:09
yeah, I didn't like any of that and that sort of when he
43:14
did the Great American Songbook, you know, I mean, I mean some
43:19
of those are wonderful, wonderful written songs, you know, by top songwriters,
43:25
and you need someone who knows how to interpret them, you know.
43:29
I mean, I'm not a Frank Scher Frank sin Archer fan, but Frank
43:34
sin Archer knows how to work with an orchestra, he knows how to work
43:37
with the lyric, he knows how to sort of interpret these songs. Ron
43:40
Stewart doesn't, I mean, Stutt's good doing R and B. He's good
43:45
doing you know, racust rock and roll, you know. Yeah, yeah,
43:50
he reinvented himself a few times throughout the years, and it didn't pay
43:57
off from a commercial standpoint. But but I'm with you. I think I
44:00
prefer the rocker Rod. Yeah. Yeah. And I loved what he did
44:07
when when he worked again with Jeff back in the mid eighties infatuation, uh
44:13
and then people get ready amazing, amazing. And of course then all that
44:20
time Humble Pie was sort of dragging themselves around here. Yeah, left,
44:25
and he sort of stumbled for a while, and then he sort of that
44:29
that massive, massive album. Isn't that massive live album, whereas Steve Murray
44:34
it was, you know, I mean, and the Humble Pie is some
44:37
really good, really good things. I mean, thirty Days in a Whole
44:40
I thought thought that was a great song, probably the most well known here
44:44
in the States. Yeah, although when it comes down to it, what
44:49
he's talking about, he's bragging about all the drugs he's taken. If you
44:52
listen to the lyrics, you know, I mean, well that was his
44:55
downfall, right, I believe alcohol and drugs became something he I believe he
45:01
didn't. Didn't. He died because he he fell asleep after a long drinking,
45:07
not of long drinking. And yeah, his house caught on fire,
45:12
I think is the story. I mean, like, in a way,
45:15
I mean, getting a drugs bust was almost like a sort of a mark
45:22
of prestige, you know. I mean, the stones had been busted and
45:24
they've been taken to taken to call George Harrison had been you know, for
45:28
drugs, you know. I mean it gives a kind of a mark of
45:30
prestige in a way, you know. So I think that day, that
45:34
solid track thirty days and a who is you know, it's a good track.
45:37
But at the same time, I'm thinking he's sort of bragging about all
45:40
the drugs he's taken, about the fact that he's been bussed by then by
45:44
the police, you know, and all this kind of thing, you know,
45:47
And then he did black Coffee, which is another sort of very very
45:52
strong, very strong track. Well, I mean he's trying desperately to sound
45:57
black, you know, and you think, well, you know, I
46:00
thought we'd evolved beyond that. You know, you know, you can only
46:04
be what you can do, you know, you can only be what you
46:07
are, you know, Yeah, I don't need no doctors another great track
46:10
from humble Pie, But I think that's probably not the same thing, like
46:15
I don't need any help. I'm good, I'm fine. Yeah, I
46:17
mean, I say the humble Pie dragged themselves around America and they wound up
46:22
at the end of the tour and by the time all the expenses were deducted,
46:28
expences for traveling, spences for hotels, expenses for riders, which included,
46:32
you know, drugs and all this sort of thing. You know,
46:36
they were virtually left with no money, nothing left, you know. So
46:39
see it was stuck in that same same position. He worked his ass off
46:44
and he got nothing, but got nothing for it. Did you ever hear
46:47
the rumor that he was among the people considered for the a CDC gig after
46:52
Bonn Scott died. Oh yeah, I mean would have been interesting. It
46:57
would have been interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can almost see
47:00
that happening Kenya right right. That final album. So it's the fourth and
47:05
final Faces album. Ouh La La released March of seventy three, number one
47:08
in the UK twenty one I think in the US. Cindy incidentally and the
47:14
title track were the singles Cindy. It's indentally reached number two in the UK
47:17
forty eight in the US title track didn't chart, but it's outlived Cindy.
47:22
Incidentally, all these years later, Ronnie wrote it with Ronnie Wood wrote it
47:27
with Ronnie Lane, and the only Faces recording to include Ronnie would on lead
47:31
vocals. And I always wondered why Rod Stewart didn't sing on this version,
47:37
but later record he recorded his own version for a later record in nineteen ninety
47:42
eight, and that's explained in the books. Can you talk about why Ronnie
47:46
would decide? Because I think Rod considered that he was considered. He did
47:52
a couple tries on lead, and he was the one who said, let's
47:55
have Ronnie would do it. Was the stories that you know, by that
47:59
time, Rod Stewart was getting more and more involved with his own career,
48:04
and he turned up less frequently, you know, for the Faces rehearsals and
48:08
for the Faces recording sessions, and sometimes he wasn't there, so they had
48:13
to make do with whatever he was there, you know, whatever whatever personnel
48:17
was there. So I think it could have it could have been that as
48:21
much as anything else. The fact that Rod just wasn't there. He was
48:24
off with his making his own album. Do you have a personal pick?
48:29
Which version do you like? Do you like the Rod Stewart version or the
48:31
one song by Ronnie Wood? No? No, like the Faces version.
48:36
Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is charming quality to it. You know,
48:40
Ronnie Wood's not a lead singer type, but it's it's a fun song.
48:45
And I know here in the in the US in one of the commercials
48:49
they did use the original version. I always thought it was Ronnie Lane singing.
48:53
I had no idea for the longest time that it was Ronnie Wood.
49:00
And yeah, I mean cold Stewart sort of went off solo. I mean,
49:06
in his defense, they said, why did you leave the Faces And
49:09
he said, well, by the time I left, there was no Faces
49:13
left. You know. They up and in fact, Ronnie Lane, he'd
49:16
already the group under suffered and symptoms of his you know, disease eventually killed
49:22
him. So being replaced by tamash Too we've been with briefly with Free Tetsu
49:30
your machuh. Yeah, that didn't last long and Ronnie Lane was frustrated from
49:37
from the aspect he wanted to write more or he wanted more of his songs
49:42
to be recorded and then that's he went on to a really interesting solo career.
49:45
I think he's did some great stuff. The album he did with Pete
49:47
Townsend is fabulous. Yeah, but yeah, things went rapidly downhill for the
49:53
Faces after Ronnie lank quit. His boots were too big to fill, and
49:58
eventually by the mid and these Faces came to an end. But Ronnie did
50:02
quit because of the frustrations with with songwriting because for him, the money wasn't
50:09
that that really wasn't on his mind. He was a true artist. I
50:14
think he wanted to just express himself artistically. Is that. I think that
50:19
was important part of it. Yeah. I mean, of course, when
50:22
you when you go into rock and roll, you go in for the for
50:23
the girls and the drugs and the you know, the plame. But you
50:27
know, I think the artistic stimulus, I'd say it was a very highly
50:30
competitive thing, and he wanted to be better than your feel the bands,
50:35
you know, he wants to get that edge. Well, yeah, I
50:37
think it was a sort of a competitive thing and it was a definitely an
50:40
artistic thing. He wants to be better than the other guy. You know,
50:44
you wanted to sort of make your mark. So yeah, I mean
50:46
did you get to see the documentary on Ronnie Lane? There was a really
50:51
good Yeah, it was interesting character he was. They had the traveling he
50:57
went on tour like a traveling circus type of thing where he he didn't put
51:02
on many shows, but he had this big idea to go around and travel
51:07
around the country and uh, this thing, you know type thing. Yeah,
51:13
and we know Ronnie Wood goes on to join Stones and Rod Stewart solo
51:17
success, Kenny Jones joined The Who after Keith Mohon Keith Moon died and sadly
51:23
we've lost Ronnie Lane, Steve Marriott and Ian mcleagh. And as just said,
51:30
what stands out to you the most when you look back on small faces
51:34
and faces? What what do you think they should be remembered for most?
51:37
Well, I mean I obviously loved them the parts of my sort of evolving
51:44
appreciation of music. And you know, I think he did some amazing tracks.
51:47
I mean, all of the things in Sols and a Lady, you
51:52
know, they are brilliant examples of that period of music, you know,
52:00
which was a sort of vital period where when you know, singles dominated the
52:04
charts, and the Beatles and the Stones and Who and you know, Small
52:08
Faces and the Kinks and all that lot. I mean they were all competing
52:12
with each other and all trying to get one over on each other, yard
52:15
Birds and you know, and then sort of moved into the into the seventies
52:20
with the Faces when it was like, you know, Pink Floyd and you
52:23
know, all all those bands, I mean led zepp In obviously and that
52:27
they were all competing in the same way, you know. So, yeah,
52:30
it was an exciting period to live through. Brilliant period. What was
52:36
your response to the news And I sent you by email this news too.
52:39
I'm sure you heard of it. But the new box set that collects all
52:42
of the Faces BBC recordings from the early seventies, did you hear about this?
52:46
Yeah, I mean there has been a gradual sort of a leak of
52:52
CDs collecting up, you know BBC, you know radio tracks, and yeah,
53:00
I mean they are invaluable because you know, I mean obviously excited off
53:04
for the Beatles at the BEAB. I don't really remember that one that's like
53:07
a CD box and the led Zeppelin BBC sessions are fantastic. Yeah, I'm
53:15
really looking forward to this eight CDs one blu ray box uh eighty tracks.
53:22
What else as it saying? Here newly restored footage from April of seventy two.
53:25
It's available September sixth, remastered with the participation of the Faces members Rod
53:30
Stewart, Ronnie Wood and Kenny Jones. Yeah, I mean very often.
53:36
I mean they did stuff live that they were never recorded, all the inversions
53:39
of you know, different interpretations of material that we never recorded. So you
53:45
know, it's interesting for us for those academics to you know, to hear
53:50
those to hear those tracks. Yeah, I think it's I think it's valuable
53:53
that the BBC's doing that, but reacing all these old tracks out of the
53:58
archives and bringing them back in, you know, to people see them really
54:02
looking forward to it. Small faces in their faces, every album, every
54:07
song. The book is are now in the UK through Burning Shed dot com
54:09
and it does have a July twenty sixth release date here in the States Andrews
54:14
so people can find it through Amazon when that comes out here in the US
54:19
next week twenty sixth of July, or wherever books are sold. And Andrew
54:23
work. Can people find you online if they wanted to reach out to you.
54:27
Yeah, there's Andy Darlington Andy Darlington dot com. I'm there. I'm
54:36
happy to you know, to chat, to talk, to communicate whatever,
54:40
you know. Yeah, I mean these are small faces. Book was a
54:45
joy to research and you know, enjoy. You're right, I've got to
54:51
I've got to other books that have written, you know, musical. I
54:55
did a book book on Sly and the Family Stone, I did a book
54:59
on the Hollies. I did a book on the Human League. Right now,
55:04
I'm working on a book about the Yardbirds. So oh, the art
55:07
Birds okay, Jeff Beck, Yeah, that's gonna be the next one.
55:10
Okay, Yeah, I did. I was lucky enough to interview their manager,
55:16
signing Napier Bell. Very nice guy, and he had some great stories
55:20
about about Jeff Beck's time with the Yardbirds, and he said, Jeff Beck
55:25
was you know, he was he was his own person, you know,
55:29
he he you know, they they were. There was one story while they're
55:32
telling the guys in the room, we're telling Jeff, don't you know how
55:37
to how to do the song? Or even just encouraging him, He's just
55:39
like, I don't. I don't need you guys to help me, you
55:42
know, it just it just struck one chord as if to say, you
55:45
know, screw you, I know what I'm doing. Yeah, man,
55:50
Jeff beck was a brilliant artist, and that was a shock when he passed.
55:53
I mean, I don't know, nobody saw that one coming. Too
55:58
bad. That movie, I don't know when you know, the movie blow
56:00
Up, Michael Angelo, the movie blow Up where it actually featured the Yardbirds
56:07
and in the club scene the Jeff Beck and the Jimmy Page in the same
56:14
lineup. Yeah, there was a brief time there. Yeah, And it's
56:17
in there in the movie blow Up, you know, and they're they're playing
56:22
in this mock up of the of the club and the David Hemmings comes in
56:28
to watch the band and there's Jeff beck playing his playing his lead guitar,
56:34
and there's like as a buzzing sound on the on the amplifiers, and you
56:37
can tell that Jeff Becky is kind of annoyed, and he goes and sort
56:40
of bangs his guitar against the against the amplifier, and they've had a buzzing
56:45
noise continues and of a road he comes out and starts fixing it and fixing
56:51
it, and you know, and there's Jimmy Page is there and it's kind
56:52
of watching what what's going on like that, you know, and Jimmy Page
56:55
is getting more and more Jeff Becky is getting more and more annoyed the guitar,
57:00
and he matches it on the Winchers and eventually fixed the guitar and they
57:09
coup of just throws it into the audience and all the fans are fighting to
57:13
get this to get this neck. It's this guitar. I mean, you
57:16
know, probably it was staged for the movie. I don't know, but
57:20
it just captures that sort of you know, feeling about Jeff beck Eddie,
57:27
thank you so much. Congratulations on the book and all the best to you
57:30
and the future endeavors with the next book on the Yardbirds. And you know
57:34
you're welcome back here to talk about it. Would love to have you back
57:37
on No. I really have talking to you. It's been really good.
57:49
That's it. It's in the books.