Latest / Tribe and Tribulations With Julia Makowsky / Breaking the Silence: An Honest Talk About Mikvah, Marriage, and Meaning

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Breaking the Silence: An Honest Talk About Mikvah, Marriage, and Meaning · Tribe and Tribulations With Julia Makowsky

0:00
I feel like Shayna's like that also.
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Shayna?
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I don't even know.
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I feel like she's like...
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No, generally my kids are much better than me with their actions.
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They are usually.
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Really?
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Yeah, all of them.
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Okay.
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You ready for us?
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They're better than me at most stuff.
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Are we recording?
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Yes.
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Oh, we're already recording?
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Everything's recording.
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Oh, right.
0:17
So, woohoo.
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I didn't realize.
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Okay.
0:21
Today we're doing something a little different.
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I actually brought my own Rebbetson to the podcast.
0:28
Mrs. Rivki Freinlich.
0:30
She happens to be my friend, my mentor, and someone I just truly respect
0:36
wholeheartedly because there's nothing I can't ask her.
0:40
There is nothing off limits, I would say,
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with her.
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And she comes with answers that are thoughtful and steeped in halacha and knowledge,
0:55
but also with zero judgment.
0:58
And that I think is probably the most important thing when it comes to
1:02
a topic like Nida, when it comes to a lot of women-based subjects that we deal with in the
1:10
Torah.
1:11
And normally on the podcast, we have somebody from the secular world and somebody
1:16
from the from world here.
1:19
But with a topic so sensitive as this, I really thought that
1:24
just an intimate conversation between the two of us was the way to go.
1:29
And I truly believe that,
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A, I sort of teeter the line between secular and religious.
1:36
I try to like really be moderate in it.
1:40
But I think these questions need to be asked and they need to be answered on a platform where
1:47
people can listen and really hear what someone like you, who's a Yowetz at Halacha, which we
1:57
will go into as to what that even means, and a Kala teacher, and a Rebbetzin, and a normal person,
2:03
all at the same time.
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Because I truly feel that Rivki really embodies what a woman in the Jewish
2:15
world should be.
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She leads truly by example and not just by telling you how to be.
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And that to me
2:24
is the most inspiring.
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Okay.
2:28
So we're going to start.
2:29
Thank you for that.
2:29
Thank you.
2:30
No, hello.
2:30
It's the truth.
2:31
You're my real friend and I really feel that bringing you on here was mandatory.
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I'm like, I couldn't start a podcast without having you here because you're just so knowledgeable
2:43
in so many different facets.
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And I'm like, okay, everyone needs to hear all the knowledge you have to give.
2:49
I'm honored.
2:50
Okay.
2:51
So we're going to start with a little bit about you.
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Okay.
2:55
So you became a Yohetzad Halacha.
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I did.
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Not so long ago.
3:00
About seven years ago.
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Okay.
3:02
Seven, eight years ago.
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And you've been a Reviton for a very long time.
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And we're not going to out you here.
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Oh, it's really great.
3:09
No problem.
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I'm embracing.
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Okay.
3:11
My years of experience.
3:13
What made you decide to be a Kala teacher, be a Yotar Halacha, and really lead a community
3:21
in ways that sometimes are a little overwhelming?
3:26
It's the biggest bracha, the biggest source of blessing in my life, for sure.
3:31
I guess it started, we've lived at, before we moved back to New York three years ago,
3:35
we've lived out of town.
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Now that I'm in New York, I could call those places out of town.
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but in our first journey, the first chapter, we were in Atlanta, Georgia and I became a
3:48
college teacher by accident basically.
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There just weren't at the time, this is going back 25 years,
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so at the time there just weren't so many people around that were capable of teaching and meeting
4:01
with young women who were getting married, whether they were secular or religious, but if they were
4:05
interested in some authentic learning, there weren't so many people who were willing to do
4:10
that.
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And one of the local Rebetzins asked me, I was way too young that I look back now, I cannot
4:17
believe what I, I was 25 maybe, and I was teaching a 30 something year old.
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She was a physician.
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She was not yet observant, but she had a family member who'd convinced her that she should learn
4:33
these laws and that's how I got started.
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And it just went from there.
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So I tried to learn a lot.
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I took classes, courses.
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I did my own learning for my own observance, but then just kept going.
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And we became very busy, both my husband and I, trying to help answer questions in the community
4:50
that we were in.
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And then eventually we moved to Montreal where my husband became the rabbi of
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there.
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And after our first year of living there, once the dust had settled a little bit, it was a
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big move for our family, settling a lot of people, adjusting to a whole new culture.
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And one of the things we realized was that we had not gotten any questions in the realm of NIDA,
5:12
or Tarasamishpacha, in a year.
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And we were in an Orthodox community, and it just didn't add up.
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And so I started poking around and asking women in the community that I felt comfortable with,
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what do people do here?
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And basically, to make a long story short, what I discovered was that
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the women weren't asking.
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They were deciding for themselves, most of the time erring on the side
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of being too stringent.
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And some of them had had experiences, whatever it was that got them to make
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that decision.
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And a few things fell into place.
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And I was approached by the Oetzaralacha program,
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actually, to see if I was interested.
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Their ideal was to have shul rabbis do this program
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because they felt like we were uniquely positioned to work well with the rabbi
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and to already have a community accessible.
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And that's what happened.
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We were the first online cohort.
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I studied for a little over two years.
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Didn't do much else for those two years.
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Learned a tremendous amount.
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It was such an incredible experience.
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And I became connected to a world of Torah
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and Torah plus sensitivity,
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or Torah merged with sensitivity
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and real life experiences, real people.
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and the Rav in particular that I became very much attached to
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because of his sensitivity and his breadth of knowledge
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and halacha, really Rabbi Alman has continued to guide me
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in really all the work that we've done.
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And within a very short time,
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the number of questions that I started receiving,
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the observance in our community changed.
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I say this like with a lot of gratitude
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and a lot of humility dramatically.
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And then very shortly thereafter, COVID came.
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And the questions in Canada in particular
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were like things we had never expected.
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A lot of things we had studied in the Gemara
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and thought those things are never real.
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Those things are 2000 years old.
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That's never gonna happen.
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And then they happened.
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Mikvahs closed, there were curfews and things like that.
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So we were sort of thrown into things
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and it just went from there.
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And the observance in the community now,
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So I think a lot of people were observing and now they're observing in a lot more educated way, in a way that I think they can feel so proud of.
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The community grew so, so much.
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Women are amazing.
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It's really actually unbelievable because, you know, we look at all these communities and we want to just sort of assume like, oh, everybody's doing whatever it is.
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like, it doesn't matter, religious observance.
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I think for a mitzvah like going to the mikvah,
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which is like our ritual bath for those that don't know, in order for us to be intimate with
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our husbands, there's pure days and not as pure days.
8:02
And I like to call it accessible and not
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accessible.
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Okay.
8:04
That's a nice way of putting it.
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I like that.
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But it's so hard for somebody
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who lives in the secular world to even comprehend this idea where like, oh no, we're not going to be
8:16
with our significant other.
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But it brings so much connection long-term.
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And I really find that even
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for myself, listen, I wear pants, I don't cover my hair, but Tarot's mishpacha for me has nothing
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to do with sex, if I'm telling you the truth.
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It has to do with like building a relationship,
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also finding time for myself and for my husband to connect in different ways.
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And I think that people in our world tend to be very black and white on things.
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Very black and white.
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Like, okay, well, if I don't do this, then I'm not going to do that.
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Or if I do this, I'm going to do that.
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No.
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I think that people forget that we pick and choose in every aspect of our life.
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And I also pick and choose.
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I am a human being, and I think that you being so accessible and so patient with the community you are in probably showed people that this mitzvah isn't so scary.
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It's not scary.
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and yeah I have a question even here where it goes like does it bring a third person into the
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bedroom when you have to ask these questions and yeah sometimes it could be a little intimidating
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or uncomfortable like hey I don't know if I'm clean today and I don't know am I allowed to be
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with him am I not allowed to be with him but there's so much beauty in creating that connection
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Yeah.
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Do you find that people are scared to come to you in those moments of,
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shoot, should I do this?
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Should I not ask you?
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Are they nervous?
10:02
You know, it's hard for me to say.
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If they don't reach out, I don't know.
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I'll often hear from
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people who made a decision one way or the other on their own, and then they're calling me after
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the fact.
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Sometimes women for whom this is something that is, you know, very much a part
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of their consciousness and they are committed to observing Jewish law to the highest level,
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they will take a pause, which I think is really, there are some calls that I've gotten where I'm
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just, I'm literally in awe of people.
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People who in very private moments will, this is something
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we were talking about before, who will just pause and think like, this is God's will.
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This is me
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would like to be living my life according to certain values.
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And no one else is going to know
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if I make this call.
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No one else is going to know if I ask this question.
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This is between me and my
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husband and God.
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And sometimes the way we access God or his will is by asking a halachic question.
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and I am sincerely in awe.
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I really think it's something
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the Rav Rav Soloveitchik writes about
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that he thinks this is an act of heroism.
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When somebody-
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Bring that on.
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Yeah.
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You're right.
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When I dunk in the mikvah,
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I do feel like a hero.
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There is something,
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I mean, think about what the ideal is,
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which is that you have a husband and wife
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who are hopefully wildly attracted to each other,
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who want nothing but to be together
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and share intimate moments
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give each other pleasure and all of that.
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And then halacha prompts them to stop and nobody's
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there to judge or to either to encourage or discourage.
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And it's just purely coming from
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their own desire to fulfill what we believe is the will of Hashem, what the Torah says.
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And I just, I am literally in awe of people regularly on a regular basis who make that
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very heroic move of saying, wait a minute, I'm not sure if this is the right thing.
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And I ask what the right thing is, because I'll be honest with you, okay?
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We do put a lot of
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boundaries around what the real halacha is versus what the rabbis say.
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And I'm sure, listen,
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I understand that what the rabbis have to say is legit.
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Yeah, it's halacha, okay.
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But not all of us are at the same level.
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We're just not.
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I'm sorry.
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I'm passing the salt.
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I am.
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I'm passing.
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I'm doing.
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What is real and what is just trying to keep us as separate as possible?
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Because I do understand that if you are attracted to your significant other-
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Which we hope you are.
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Oh, I am.
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Yeah.
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Trust and believe I am.
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Oh, I didn't mean you.
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I meant you.
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The clown.
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Okay, fine.
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That's fair.
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But I am.
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But like, how do we understand, let's say those of us that we want to do what is right,
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but we also don't need to do everything perfect.
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What's real?
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What's not?
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Okay.
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So I guess I would say from my perspective, halacha is real.
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Torah is real.
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And I believe it's for everyone.
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How that looks in real life, obviously, is up to each person to decide.
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And I find that this is where education becomes very important.
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I'm a big believer.
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And when I study with women before they get married, I'm a big believer that they should
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learn not just what is the practical halacha today, but how did halacha evolve?
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How did it go from the psukim that are in the Torah to what we observe today?
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What was that process?
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And obviously I'm doing an abridged version, but I just, I want women to understand how
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we got from point A to point B.
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and therefore what is,
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and basically we're learning halacha.
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We don't learn,
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I will always mention when there are common stringencies
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and there are common leniencies and things like that,
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but I believe the goal should be
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that everybody learns what is standard halachic practice
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and then is also taught what is common
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for their particular community.
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And that might change,
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meaning depending on which community or which rav a person follows, a couple chooses to follow.
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And then I believe it's important for people to understand what the halacha says and then let
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people choose.
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Like you said, people tend to make choices.
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So let people choose, but let them choose
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in an educated way.
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Let them understand that there are certain things that are not just Torah-based,
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but are discussed in the Gemara,
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whereas there might be other things
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that evolved a little bit later.
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And maybe there might be some room for leniency, maybe.
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And then people can choose to do
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with that information what they like.
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The other thing that I think is really important
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is also to clarify when something is,
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here's some common sense,
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or here's some what we often call halakhic advice.
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Here's some halakhic guidance,
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which is not the same as a psak
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or a definitive halachic answer.
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And I think that's maybe where some of the confusion comes in.
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And if I were being honest, which I'm always honest,
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I think a lot of the confusion comes
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because people tend to share,
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well, my rabbi told me this,
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but my friend's rabbi told her that.
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And I think within that,
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there's actually, we should appreciate the beauty
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of halachic advisors, Rabbanim, Poskim,
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rabbit sins, whoever's in this role, who understands that halacha looks different
16:03
when applied to different situations.
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And just as a practice, as a general rule, I would say
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people shouldn't take halacha guidance that was given to someone else and apply it in their own
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life.
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It's interesting you bring that up because I learned with somebody in the city who I respect
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and love and the Ruv who I would ask questions to when I first got married, they were so
16:29
knowledgeable about everything.
16:30
And by the way, he looked so from, and he is so from, he like ran a coal out, but he
16:37
was so lenient.
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Like I would have been like, absolutely not.
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I cannot go to the mikveh today.
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And he's like, Julia, like you're being crazy.
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He's like, the goal is to find a way for you and your husband to be together always.
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Always.
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that's we're not here to be crazy about it and it's interesting because i would like ship him
16:56
stuff from the five towns i would ship him my badika claws and he would be like you're fine
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and i was so neurotic about i need to do this right and i need to do this like exactly like
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this because i was young right and i don't want to say dumb but maybe naive to the fact that like
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You lacked experience.
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Right.
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And I think that so many women are so afraid to ask the question, so they just do the most
17:24
extreme instead of going, hey, I don't know what the deal is here.
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Most of the time, it's all good.
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And once I understood that part, that like, oh, God wants you to be together.
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The rabbis are not trying to make you not be together.
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No.
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So ask the question.
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Definitely not.
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Ask the question.
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And if you don't get an answer you don't like, by the way, guess what?
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Most people choose whatever makes them happy anyway.
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But it's good to know that they don't want the bad for you.
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They don't want you to have to separate.
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They don't want you to have to be like that.
18:02
Right.
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And I think at an age where like anxiety – I see it all the time in my practice where people are so OCD about a lot of things.
18:12
And especially when it comes to their relationship with God, they want to do everything right.
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And this internal fear of, am I getting this wrong?
18:25
Do I have to do this exactly like this?
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Really affects women.
18:31
And it affects people from wanting to do more because they're so scared that they're doing everything incorrectly.
18:38
Right.
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Right.
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But do you find that people have that same anxiety around other mitzvot?
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Like, I don't find that people beat themselves up if they accidentally turn a light switch on or off on Shabbos.
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I find that this is a very unique area of halacha.
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Why do you think that is?
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I was going to ask you.
18:57
Well, I think for me, at least, I could only speak for myself,
19:02
because it's such an intimate mitzvah, and it really is between you and God and your husband, obviously,
19:08
because it's not so forward-facing.
19:14
If you do it wrong,
19:15
the only punishment feels like it's on you, right?
19:19
There's nothing, everyone talks about,
19:23
okay, Shabbos or talks about kashras.
19:26
People do not talk about sex in our world.
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And this is, whether or not we call it what it is,
19:33
this has to do with sex.
19:35
Sorry, it does, right?
19:36
In order to be intimate with your husband, you have to do certain things, right?
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And because there's all this taboo around it, we're so crazy about it.
19:48
And on top of that, at least for me, I had such severe religious anxiety that I was like,
19:53
okay, if I don't do this perfectly, I'm not going to have healthy kids, God forbid.
19:58
I'm not going to have a good marriage.
20:00
That was what was ingrained in me.
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Not because a college teacher told me.
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Right.
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Not because a rabbi told me, but because I created a narrative within myself that if I didn't keep this halacha perfectly…
20:14
You were going to get punished.
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I was going to get punished.
20:16
But Hashem is never there, and I'm not a Rebbetzin, obviously, but Hashem is not there to make us feel less than.
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It only amplifies the good in your life by connecting to a higher power, whatever that looks like for you.
20:34
Literally my entire life has gotten better because I realize that I am God's vessel and anything I do, no matter what, whether it's a little bit or extreme, is going to make him proud.
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Nothing you do, he's really a father.
20:55
So anything you do will make him proud.
20:57
Maybe it's not to the same extent, but who cares?
21:01
Right.
21:01
Well, I think we could say he's proud of the struggle, meaning I think we can say that we know that our role in this world is to try and bring more holiness into it, is to help bring more love, more spirituality, more connection between people and between us and, like you said, our higher power, God, in our world.
21:28
and that the struggle is real.
21:33
And I think in particular,
21:36
what people often call scrupulosity,
21:39
a religious OCD,
21:40
anxiety that expresses itself in a religious context.
21:44
I personally, I have,
21:46
when I've spoken with people
21:49
where this is something that they struggle with
21:51
and I've asked them, you know, softly and gently,
21:54
do they experience this
21:55
in other parts of their religious life?
21:58
for people with severe, severe anxiety and OCD, the answer is yes.
22:02
But for people who are sort of,
22:04
you know, they're very functional and they have some religious OCD and anxiety on the side,
22:12
that the intensity with which they experience it when it comes to mikvah, whether it's preparing
22:17
for the mikvah or whether it's how they handle the process, you know, in the week leading up,
22:22
the week and a half leading up, what happens if they make a mistake, the husband and wife during
22:27
the time that they're supposed to be separated and things like that.
22:32
Getting to a working on oneself and getting to a place where we can sort of keep things
22:39
in perspective.
22:40
One of my favorite sources to study with a bride is that the Torah was not given to the
22:49
malachim.
22:49
The Torah was not given to angels, right?
22:51
Lo nitna Torah le malachai hesharis.
22:53
God chose to give the Torah to people knowing full well that we would never keep things perfectly.
23:00
The joy is in the process, is in the growth, and honestly, is in the struggle.
23:06
And I think helping to guide and support women for whom this is not joyful is really a lot of why I try to do what I do,
23:20
which is one of the mottos of Rabbi Nied Hinken,
23:23
the founder of Nishmat,
23:25
is that the Torah is supposed to be
23:26
d'recha ha'darche noam.
23:28
The ways of the Torah are meant to be pleasant.
23:30
They're not necessarily easy.
23:32
I think we all know that.
23:33
There's a lot of hard when it comes to observing halacha,
23:36
not just in this realm, but in a lot of realms,
23:38
a lot of sacrifice and a lot of,
23:40
I just don't feel like it, but I need to do it anyway.
23:43
It's hard.
23:44
But that being said, it doesn't need to be unpleasant.
23:47
It shouldn't be onerous.
23:48
and we don't want resentment and things like that.
23:50
And I think the firm world has come so far.
23:54
For all that we wanna say
23:55
that we're seeing more anxiety and OCD now
23:57
than we ever have,
23:58
we're also seeing more conversation about it.
24:00
We're seeing more resources.
24:01
We're seeing more therapists in the firm world
24:03
who can specifically address this issue
24:06
in the context of NIDA and MICFA.
24:09
There's a workbook available on Amazon
24:11
put out with Hascamos from big Rabbanim
24:14
on helping women work their way
24:17
with cognitive behavioral therapy techniques
24:19
to work their way through these issues.
24:21
Nevermind, obviously working with a therapist as well.
24:25
But those are things that those people
24:27
who are answering questions and speaking to women,
24:29
we all need to stay on top of our game
24:30
and making sure we're trained properly
24:33
and we know how to support women
24:35
and guide them to find the joy again in this mitzvah.
24:39
And there is joy.
24:40
Like I also wanna like bring things
24:42
into perspective a little bit.
24:43
Like back in the day when you had to go to the river
24:47
to dunk, they weren't looking under their nails.
24:49
They just weren't.
24:50
The goal is not to be nitty
24:52
gritty because if you were walking from the riverbank into the river, you were going to get
24:57
mud under your nails.
24:59
Sorry, it just is what it is.
25:01
That's why it's not an ideal place.
25:02
Right.
25:02
It's not ideal.
25:04
And obviously, we're not going to the riverbank at this point.
25:07
Maybe during
25:07
COVID, we were desperate enough.
25:09
We would have.
25:09
Yeah.
25:10
No, we really strongly discourage it
25:11
But ultimately, at least for me, I find that there's a way to do a mitzvah for every single
25:18
person.
25:19
At whatever level you want to do it at, God's there with open arms.
25:25
I know that that's not halakhically like in the box.
25:28
I get it.
25:29
And I'm not here to push people to do the wrong thing.
25:33
But Torah should be accessible for everybody at whatever level.
25:37
and if people are so afraid to even take that dip their toe in literally right no don't be scared
25:46
be open i changed my entire perspective with mikvah when i went okay i'm not gonna be crazy
25:52
about this i'm gonna do what i have to even though sometimes it feels like the whole day leading up
25:59
to the mikvah is just bathing and showering and bathing and showering and dunking and then
26:03
showering again because I don't want to smell like the McFly.
26:06
There's this constant state of
26:08
having to be wet, which I don't like it.
26:11
But I'm not taking the approach that is,
26:15
I need to be so focused on preparation and just start appreciating what it is.
26:22
Like, oh,
26:23
I get the opportunity to be clean slate.
26:28
I have a clean slate now.
26:29
Haha, whatever I did last month
26:31
does not matter.
26:33
I get Yom Kippur every single month.
26:36
And for me, that's even harder now that
26:38
I see the end for me because I will be getting a hysterectomy, as you know.
26:45
The idea that I won't have that, and I know there's a lot of women out there that struggle
26:49
with the end of going to the mikvah, the end of whether that's like menopause or
26:57
there's so much that comes with that.
27:01
And losing this ability to do this mitzvah is so scary.
27:05
So
27:05
you see it on both ends of the spectrum where you go, well, you have the kala who's coming in and
27:10
freaked out, right?
27:11
I don't know what I'm doing.
27:12
And then you have somebody who's at the end of
27:15
this mitzvah and you're like, wait, what am I doing?
27:18
Right.
27:19
Yeah.
27:20
It's really challenging.
27:23
I think really just back to what you were talking about before, that education is really the answer to everything.
27:28
And education looks different for everyone.
27:30
Some people, education looks like sources and working through text.
27:33
And some people, education looks like reading a book or listening to something online or calling up somebody and getting clarification.
27:41
but just even your approach to preparing for mikvah,
27:45
the difference it makes when you understand
27:48
why we do what we do in preparation for the mikvah.
27:51
What are the actual halachos of chatzitza,
27:53
the barriers that would prevent the tevila from working
27:57
or doing its job?
27:58
And how did we get from the Torah level chatzitza
28:01
to the rabbinic level of chatzitza
28:03
to what the Jewish practice has become today,
28:05
which is that we really try to remove everything
28:08
and just, I think, feeling more comfortable
28:12
with that process is really based mostly in education
28:17
so that a person doesn't have to pretend
28:19
or trick themselves like, no, this is fine or that's fine.
28:23
No, actually, when you learn it,
28:25
there are a lot of very real practical applications
28:29
of the halakha and to be guided properly
28:32
that when you're preparing, you do it properly.
28:34
So how do you talk to somebody
28:36
that, listen, I have a ton of kids, right?
28:40
And having to prepare while also dealing with carpool,
28:43
while also dealing with, like,
28:45
how do you even practically do it
28:47
in a way that's like meaningful
28:49
without feeling like, get away from me, everyone.
28:53
I need to bathe and I have to do,
28:55
like, how does a person who's already has a family
29:01
take ownership of this mitzvah
29:02
when it feels like a burden?
29:04
Right, right.
29:04
How do you do that?
29:05
It is very challenging.
29:07
I think, first of all, just to normalize and validate it, I would say two things.
29:10
Number one is mikvah or nidah is really a two-person venture.
29:17
Say that again.
29:18
Run the men in the back.
29:20
So while, say it for all the chasen teachers out there.
29:22
Yeah, exactly.
29:23
So that while for the practice of it is this unique opportunity for a woman.
29:28
It's her unique responsibility.
29:30
This is the one mitzvah you cannot outsource, right?
29:33
Nobody can go to the mikvah for you.
29:35
someone can light your candles and someone can take your challah.
29:38
I know that that's not very
29:39
trendy to say because everybody loves a good challah bake, but the reality is that both of
29:43
those things, which are unique mitzvahs that were given to women are not exclusively for women.
29:48
Whereas this mitzvah is uniquely a woman's.
29:50
And I think that's, you know, back to what we were
29:52
talking about before, and that's a lot of where some of the angst comes from is that this is
29:57
really on me.
29:58
So while I want to acknowledge that that's true and it's a unique opportunity and it
30:02
affords tremendous chances for a woman to feel connected spiritually and to have these
30:11
unbelievable experiences.
30:12
I say to women all the time, going to the mikveh could be a lot like your first visit
30:16
to the Kotel.
30:19
You want it to be spiritually uplifting.
30:21
You want to connect to God.
30:23
You want to hear the angels sing.
30:24
You just want it to be amazing.
30:26
And you want that at the Kotel.
30:28
You want that at the mikveh.
30:29
And really what might happen is that you go to the Kotel
30:31
and it's a wall.
30:33
And maybe you have a moving experience, maybe you don't.
30:35
But the bottom line is you spoke to God
30:37
and we believe that that's important, that has value.
30:40
And I would say the same thing about the mikvah.
30:42
Every woman, I think, wants the experience
30:44
to feel ideally uplifting.
30:48
And the bottom line is that would be wonderful.
30:50
But even if all you do is get completely immersed
30:53
in the water and you just come out wet,
30:56
you've also done something that we believe
30:57
is very significant.
30:58
And of course, we would love for women to have the bandwidth to prepare properly, to
31:05
pray properly, to do all the things ahead of time that will give this the most chance
31:09
for being meaningful.
31:10
But the reality is that sometimes that's not feasible.
31:13
And women should, from within, hopefully, just feel like just doing the right thing
31:19
is in and of itself so valuable.
31:22
So that's one piece.
31:23
And back to that other point about it being a two-person venture is that I think this
31:28
requires a lot of communication and teamwork.
31:30
It is not realistic for a woman who is managing
31:33
all the things that are going on in her home, including carpools and schedules and making
31:38
dinner for her best friends and doing an errand for a parent and doing all of the things and
31:44
working and so many things that women feel responsible to do, which is beautiful and
31:48
wonderful.
31:49
But they're on top of that also going to be able to do everything the way they want at
31:54
the time they want, relax and feeling spiritual.
31:56
And it's just not realistic.
31:58
So if it means
31:59
bringing in outside resources, that you can outsource, right?
32:02
The mikveh itself, you can't
32:03
outsource, but you can outsource dinner.
32:05
You can outsource carpool.
32:07
You can outsource even
32:10
scheduling and calendar type of things, right?
32:13
I feel very strongly that couples should coordinate
32:16
ahead of time.
32:16
Like, oh, this is when mikveh night's going to be?
32:18
Okay, amazing.
32:19
And then
32:19
the husband says, I'm going to be able to do this.
32:21
Or the wife feels comfortable to say,
32:23
I'm going to need you to be like, that needs to be time for us.
32:28
Can we talk about mikvah night
32:30
a little bit?
32:30
Sure.
32:31
Because I actually think that this is like a really big pressure cooker
32:37
where everyone's like, okay, I need to have sex mikvah night.
32:39
And I've spoken about this online.
32:42
I am of the, not the authority.
32:46
I am not a Rebbetzin.
32:48
I am putting this out there.
32:49
I'm
32:49
not a rabbi.
32:50
I'm not a Rebbetzin.
32:50
I'm not a halakhic source.
32:52
I'm a therapist.
32:53
And I truly
32:54
believe that anything that brings you immense amount of stress or doesn't make a unification
33:03
or intimacy better is not worth the price of admission.
33:09
Okay.
33:10
Meaning mikvah night has so
33:13
much pressure that it has to be all of these things.
33:16
There has to be like fireworks and candles
33:18
and like you want to like pounce on each other.
33:21
That is not always the case.
33:23
I'm sorry.
33:23
Sometimes I can't get to the mikveh till 10 p.m.
33:26
and I am tired and I am not ready and I don't feel sexy.
33:32
How do we make it A, better?
33:35
And B, do we have to have sex mikveh night?
33:37
Like, is that real?
33:41
So that's a great question.
33:46
I think in an ideal, there's ideal perfect world and then there's reality.
33:50
So in the ideal perfect
33:51
world, you have a couple who hasn't had the ability to be intimate in minimally 12 days.
33:57
Of course, we would love it if everything worked out beautifully and nobody was feeling stressed
34:02
and nobody was feeling tired and nobody had a big event the next day or a flight to catch
34:09
or whatever other stressors exist in life,
34:13
it would be wonderful if that could be a priority.
34:15
Of course, that's what we all want.
34:17
And then like you said,
34:18
there's the lived experience that couples have,
34:20
which is that you can't control everything.
34:23
So to the best of our ability,
34:25
we try to plan ahead and we try to minimize stress
34:27
and we try to do all of those things.
34:30
And the reality is it doesn't always work out
34:32
the way we dream or the way that we hope.
34:35
And I think one of the main ideas that should come across when a person learns about the Torah's approach to marriage and to sexuality and to a couple's relationship is that the guiding principle is that anything that brings the couple closer together, that creates connection, not just physical connection, but intellectual connection, spiritual connection, emotional connection, that's what the Torah is encouraging.
35:02
That is what the guidelines are there for.
35:06
Ideally, the time of separation is going to help that when the couple comes back together.
35:13
And yeah, it might not always be pretty and it might not be on the night that it's supposed
35:17
to be.
35:18
And we're living real life.
35:21
And I think to the degree that a couple can make this a priority, they should.
35:30
and recognizing that that's not always,
35:32
it's not always gonna look the way
35:34
they would dream it to work.
35:35
And you know what?
35:36
The beauty of it is you have next month
35:39
or the month after.
35:40
However, it works out.
35:42
I don't know what your experience is,
35:43
but my experience is,
35:44
and the questions I get from women
35:46
is that women are not going to the mikvah every month
35:48
because women who are on the stage
35:50
where they're using hormonal birth control
35:51
are very often choosing,
35:53
I'm not saying good or bad,
35:55
but they are very often choosing
35:57
to not have this experience monthly.
35:58
And I think that's actually creating more pressure.
36:01
I think so too.
36:03
100%.
36:04
And do you discuss that with kalas when they're just like brides when you're in?
36:09
Yes, very much.
36:09
Right.
36:10
Very much.
36:11
I'll just say I think one of my hesitations about women not becoming nida is that it creates a lot of fear.
36:21
because when a woman doesn't become NIDA
36:24
for X amount of months or sometimes years,
36:27
the prospect of becoming a NIDA becomes terrifying.
36:31
And then women are looking for loopholes and leniencies
36:35
that if they're legitimate, they're legitimate,
36:37
but sometimes the desperation
36:38
for which they're looking for them is disturbing.
36:41
And it's because I know,
36:42
and I'll gently sometimes try to ask,
36:44
oh, when was the last time that you were a NIDA?
36:47
And if they tell me six months, 12 months,
36:50
18 months, whatever the numbers are.
36:53
And then I'll say, oh, that's overwhelming.
36:56
That must be very,
36:57
like, that's going to be a lot to adjust to.
36:59
And just trying to remind them that it's really,
37:02
it's awkward.
37:03
It's uncomfortable.
37:03
Again, it's not something you've done in a long time, but
37:06
you're not going to die from it.
37:08
It's not going to be pleasant, but you can manage it.
37:11
You can
37:12
manage it, you know?
37:13
And if there's a way for it to not be that way, okay, wonderful, you know?
37:16
So, but that's something I'm noticing.
37:19
And I think it's creating a lot of pressure on a mikvah night.
37:21
That's not happening every month.
37:22
If mikvah nights, you know, if we're losing that sensitivity, that heightened anticipation,
37:28
then you can't expect it.
37:30
You know, you can't expect things.
37:32
You can't take from both sides and expect things to be the same.
37:36
100%.
37:38
When a kala comes to you first time, what is something that you already know is terrifying
37:46
them, but they are so scared to ask you for the most part.
37:52
Well, if they're really scared to ask and they don't ask, I don't know what it is.
37:55
But I assume they get comfortable as time goes on.
37:58
I hope.
37:58
It happens to be that one of my preambles, one of my introductions when I'm learning
38:03
with someone is that I try to make it very clear that they are under no obligation to
38:09
tell me or ask me anything.
38:10
Meaning my job is to share with them everything that the halacha has to offer, that we have
38:16
have from our sources as far as hashkafa, philosophy, and just an approach to a healthy
38:21
marriage.
38:21
That's my job.
38:23
Their job is to integrate it and try to live it in a way that feels most
38:27
appropriate for them.
38:29
That might include at certain points them wanting to ask me things
38:32
or share things with me.
38:34
And I am so open and wanting to hear everything that they have to
38:36
share.
38:37
But I also feel strongly that people shouldn't feel pressured to share things or
38:44
ask things that they're not comfortable sharing.
38:46
And my hope is, like you said,
38:47
the more time we spend together, the more comfortable they will be.
38:51
But that is, I think,
38:53
to me, a very important premise.
38:54
I'm not a policeman or a supervisor.
38:57
I always share with
38:59
women that I study with that my job is to be the sharer of information and it's their job to figure
39:05
out how to live it.
39:06
I will not follow up and ask them, are you doing this?
39:08
Gentle reminders about
39:09
things, but never as somebody who's sitting in a place of a supervisor or anything like that.
39:19
For those people who, let's say they're not a virgin when they get married,
39:25
do you think there's a stigma about coming to college classes because they feel uncomfortable
39:32
with being like, I've been doing this without being pure?
39:35
How do you approach that?
39:38
Because
39:39
for a lot of us, maybe we weren't virgins when we came in and like learning this halacha and
39:44
all of this stuff and not feeling a hundred percent like comfortable.
39:52
How do you approach
39:52
that?
39:53
Because that's really hard.
39:54
It's really hard.
39:56
I would say from my perspective, honestly,
39:59
it's not hard.
40:00
I feel very strongly that everyone should be taught the same thing.
40:03
That's also part
40:04
of my introduction is that I'm going to teach you the way I have taught every other bride.
40:08
And that is true whether she was living with her boyfriend slash fiance before the wedding,
40:13
or she studied in a base Yaakov, or she comes from a Hasidic background, which I had that
40:18
experience once or twice.
40:20
I'm teaching everyone the same thing.
40:22
I never want someone to think that I have decided what their experiences have been.
40:28
Sometimes girls will share with me, sometimes they won't.
40:30
But my assumption is I don't know everything about a person, and I want to share everything
40:34
with you so that you could decide how this applies.
40:37
And then I think it's just a matter of sharing things
40:39
in a language and a way that is objective.
40:42
This is what the Torah says.
40:45
This is, you know,
40:45
these are the halachic principles and guidelines.
40:48
These are the details.
40:49
And not sugarcoating anything.
40:51
I don't think that's my job.
40:53
I think my job is to present things in a way
40:55
where a person can see how Torah can be relevant
40:58
in their life and how many women that I have learned with
41:02
whose behavior prior to marriage
41:07
included a lot of things that the Torah
41:09
would not necessarily be encouraging, to put it mildly,
41:13
make the decision that they're ready for something different.
41:16
They're ready for something more elevated.
41:18
They want to observe this mitzvah
41:20
maybe more than any other mitzvah they observe.
41:22
Or sometimes it's honestly, a few women have said to me,
41:27
it's almost because of their experience beforehand
41:30
that they feel like they understand
41:32
why they want this one to be different.
41:34
They want this relationship to be different.
41:36
It might even be with the same guy,
41:37
but they want the marriage to be different.
41:39
They want, you know.
41:41
Setting it apart.
41:42
Right, exactly.
41:43
And I think it's important
41:44
that when we speak about these things,
41:46
that we're honest.
41:48
The Torah is what the Torah is,
41:50
and the Torah is perfect.
41:51
Human beings are definitely not perfect,
41:53
but that doesn't mean that we can't strive for perfection.
41:56
Like it's a process.
41:57
And I think we can just lay things out
41:59
in a way.
41:59
The Torah says this, a woman, a man, this is what they should be doing.
42:04
And the reality
42:05
of what people actually do is the reality of what people do.
42:08
I also think the opposite in regards to,
42:11
let's say you were raised Bais Yaakov, okay?
42:13
All of a sudden you were raised, let's be modest,
42:16
be modest.
42:17
You're not around a man.
42:18
You're not around this.
42:18
You can't be exposing yourself.
42:21
And then all of a sudden we're like, you need to be sexy and intimate with a significant other.
42:27
and all of a sudden you go from zero to 60
42:30
and you're like, okay, everybody.
42:33
How do you deal with that also?
42:34
Because it's the exact opposite
42:36
of what somebody coming in with,
42:38
but it's the same type of insecurity
42:41
and not knowing, oh God, what comes next?
42:44
Right.
42:45
How do you handle that with somebody
42:47
who's been raised to be the ideal Jewish girl or woman?
42:55
Right.
42:56
So I would say first, similar to what I said before, I'm very clear with everyone that
43:03
everyone learns the same.
43:05
I don't make any assumptions about a girl just because she dresses a certain way or
43:09
comes from a certain education or backgrounds or community.
43:12
Experience taught me that lesson, that you can have a girl from a very modern background
43:18
who had a boyfriend her whole life and who knows what kind of experience is, but she
43:23
is terrified of this aspect of her relationship.
43:27
And girls who grew up very sheltered, so to speak,
43:30
have never been in a relationship with a guy.
43:32
And this is the part of their relationship they are
43:33
the most excited about.
43:35
They are confident.
43:36
They are ready.
43:37
So I learned a long time ago,
43:39
thankfully, this lesson that not to make assumptions and to sort of lay things out
43:44
there for everyone.
43:45
I feel really strongly that a college teacher and a mother, if she has that
43:49
relationship with her daughter, should be as positive and as open as is possible to give as
43:59
much information as possible.
44:02
One of the things that I say to Akala all the time is, I don't want
44:05
you to hear my voice.
44:08
Once you close that door, I'm leaving a lot for you to figure out on your
44:12
own.
44:12
But here are some principles.
44:13
I want to give a couple the best chance for feeling close and
44:18
that they are working towards a healthy sexual relationship.
44:21
So I will give them what I think
44:24
are, and what I've discussed with Rabbanim and therapists are healthy guidelines to help them.
44:32
I don't like using the word successful, but that's the word that's coming to my mind,
44:37
to be successful.
44:40
But there's so much that a couple should figure out on their own,
44:43
should work through together, should explore.
44:46
And I tell them that's where all the fun is.
44:47
that's where the excitement is.
44:49
I think that that's a huge point.
44:51
The fun and the excitement
44:52
tends to outwardly, it seems like it's put on the back burner.
44:58
They're like, no fun, no excitement.
45:00
You, but truth is sex is fun.
45:04
Being with your partner in a relationship that's elevated is fun.
45:09
Things are not as off limits as everybody thinks they are.
45:15
And I think that's one of the reasons
45:16
why I wanted to tackle this subject
45:18
because coming from my background,
45:21
coming from your background,
45:23
sex should be fun.
45:25
Intimacy with a partner should be meaningful,
45:30
but not scary.
45:32
And I think that a lot of people,
45:33
because we're pretty black and white,
45:36
they're like, okay, it's gonna be halakhically based.
45:39
And that's what it's shown in like the movies
45:41
when it comes to like Judaism and relationships,
45:43
like having sex through a sheet.
45:45
We don't have sex through a sheet.
45:46
I'm sorry.
45:47
These ideas that come up, they freak people out and it's not even true.
45:55
And people I know who are the most religious, like you said, have the most chemistry and the
46:03
most spark.
46:04
It doesn't matter whether they're super yeshivish or not religious at all.
46:09
If you
46:09
create that sense of safety and intimacy, that creates a beautiful dynamic in the bedroom.
46:18
What happens if somebody has had previous experiences that were not beautiful?
46:25
I see
46:25
a lot of women who have been sexually abused.
46:29
And while they might have gone to therapy to
46:33
correct and understand what happened, coming into a relationship and a marriage when
46:41
they've been hurt like that brings a whole nother layer to that dynamic.
46:49
And women who have been
46:52
abused in our community, there is stigma, whether we like to say it or not out loud.
47:00
How can they approach a Kala teacher and share that information if they want to without feeling exposed?
47:12
How do you handle that kind of a conversation because it's deeply painful?
47:17
Of course.
47:18
And I've experienced it as a therapist and I've experienced it as a person who was abused.
47:26
And coming to Kala classes was very scary.
47:29
Yeah.
47:30
So scary to be in a world where you feel, I have to be a certain way, right?
47:37
I have to be pure, but I'm not pure, but I want to be.
47:43
How do you handle that with people?
47:46
How do you connect with somebody who's had an experience that you haven't had?
47:54
yeah the reality is that um there are a lot of women unfortunately um who've had negative
48:00
experiences on a wide spectrum and i think one of the things sorry as i like cry a little because
48:08
it's meaningful for me as a survivor thriver and it's meaningful to me as a therapist
48:15
that people hear the answer, right?
48:18
Because there are so many people sitting,
48:21
watching and going,
48:24
I don't want to do this because I'm scared.
48:27
But they don't have to be.
48:31
And we talked about heroism before.
48:33
Right.
48:33
And I think people tend to associate
48:39
like secrecy with shame.
48:43
and that is obviously not something that we want.
48:48
It's not the same thing as privacy.
48:51
It's not the same thing as dignity.
48:54
And I think we need to be careful not to confuse the two,
48:58
that there should be an opportunity,
49:00
an opening for every woman who wants access
49:05
to living a halachic life and to observing these laws,
49:09
that she should have an opportunity
49:10
both to find her place in it within halacha
49:13
and also obviously in her relationship
49:17
and hopefully bring the two together.
49:19
Ideally, I think what should happen
49:21
is that a woman who knows that this is something
49:24
that is going to impact her life moving forward
49:29
is that she should try to find a teacher
49:32
who has experience.
49:33
She should work with her therapist,
49:36
which hopefully she has.
49:38
And if she hasn't yet,
49:39
which is sometimes the case, that she'll be with a teacher who can help her find the right person.
49:46
Meaning part of one of my initial sessions, as we're going through some of the benefits
49:54
and some of the challenges in observing these halachot, is that I discuss the fact that I
50:01
think it gives a lot of women agency and ownership over their bodies.
50:06
And through that conversation,
50:07
I talk about learning to trust oneself,
50:14
feeling, coming from a place of strength
50:19
and self-confidence to trust one's gut.
50:23
And I discuss very openly something
50:25
that I wish I didn't have to talk about,
50:27
but that women should be very aware,
50:29
very attuned to their own red flags.
50:33
If there is, and this is true, obviously,
50:36
about a partner, but it is also true about a teacher, a rabbi, a mentor, a therapist,
50:43
anyone where there is a differential in power that women should learn to trust themselves.
50:52
And one of the things that's very difficult to watch is that I see that the shidduch system,
50:59
modern yeshivish, doesn't matter, has taught our girls and our young women not to trust themselves.
51:06
and so I feel really strongly
51:08
in the context of this conversation
51:10
where I talk about the fact
51:11
that mikvah is basically telling you
51:13
your body calls the shots
51:15
it's what you're experiencing
51:18
your body is the one
51:19
you have to get to know your body
51:20
you have to understand your body
51:21
you have to listen to yourself
51:23
and that's what's going to set
51:25
sort of the pace of your relationship
51:27
is that in the context of that
51:30
I will say to the girls
51:32
that I'm studying with
51:33
the young women
51:33
sometimes not so young women
51:34
And the women, if you've had an experience that has caused you in particular to not trust
51:41
yourself, if you feel like there is something that you maybe haven't worked through yet,
51:46
I would really encourage you either to share it with me or to allow me to help you find
51:51
the right person that you can share it with.
51:54
The earlier the healing and the processing happens, and that's true, I think, with all
51:58
things in life, the greater the chance for success.
52:02
And also, you're looking at hopefully a shorter time until you begin to see results.
52:08
It's interesting you brought up the Shaddach system because that is – listen, I got married at 20 years old.
52:14
I can imagine that not everybody gets married so young.
52:19
But during this time period, you see a lot of like mental health things coming up, right?
52:25
Bipolar gets diagnosed, schizophrenia, all of these things come in young adulthood, right?
52:30
So we might not know these mental illnesses are involved.
52:34
What are some red flags that we can tell men and women to sort of look for, not in the mental health space, but just in general dating that will help them listen to their gut instincts a little more?
52:49
Where you're going, oh, that's not normal.
52:51
Because some of these people have never even dated anybody.
52:55
So they're like, well, my mom is telling me that this is okay.
52:58
Or the shotgun's like, go out again.
53:00
go out again.
53:00
And you're like, but he doesn't look at me and he's talking to me a different way.
53:07
And they might not know.
53:09
So what are some of the things to sort of look for when you're dating
53:14
so that you can feel safe ultimately being in a relationship and marrying this person?
53:21
Because
53:21
we date like bada bing, bada boom.
53:24
Listen, I was two and a half months dating and then two and a
53:26
half months later, I was married.
53:28
Don't try that at home.
53:29
Don't.
53:30
Listen, it worked out for me and I'm very happy.
53:33
And I'm very happy, but
53:38
you are putting a lot of faith in a lot of people, right?
53:41
And at 20 years old, you barely
53:43
know yourself.
53:44
I don't know if you even do.
53:45
I still am learning new things about myself as we
53:48
go, right?
53:48
So you went with the let's grow up together approach.
53:51
He was a grown man when we got married.
53:53
I'm not going to lie.
53:54
He was a little bit of an adult,
53:55
But I really felt like I grew with my spouse, which was such a beautiful thing.
54:02
And I'm so grateful to my husband every day and that Hashem put him in my life because I would truly not be the person I am now without him.
54:11
And he would say the same about you.
54:13
Obviously.
54:14
He knows what he has.
54:15
He's a lucky man, okay?
54:17
Lucky guy.
54:18
But it's scary.
54:21
It is scary.
54:22
We are throwing our children into a system where we don't know what the outcome is going to be.
54:28
But I think that's the same way with everything in life, right?
54:31
We never know when we get married what the outcome will be.
54:34
But what are some of the things that you've seen while you're learning with women, while you're dealing as a Rebetson?
54:42
What are some things that we can look out for or that moms and dads can help their children look out for when they're in that system?
54:48
I think that's probably the most important point is that if we start talking to our sons and daughters at 20 or 21 about red flags, we're a little late.
54:58
It's never too late.
55:00
But healthy relationships are something that we're supposed to be working on, modeling, talking about.
55:06
Yes.
55:08
At very young ages.
55:11
I think
55:13
I think recognizing green flags
55:15
is probably as important
55:17
as recognizing red flags
55:19
that's like the basis
55:20
it's very difficult
55:23
to start introducing all these scary
55:24
things when people are at this age and stage
55:26
of life if we didn't do a good job
55:28
of introducing them throughout
55:30
their years their very formative
55:32
years what do healthy and beautiful
55:34
relationships look like right
55:36
and the ideal is like that should come out from their
55:38
Torah learning that should come out in their, in an ideal world, in the home that they're raised in.
55:44
They should be seeing, you know, what does it look like to have uncomfortable conversations?
55:49
But when you love someone and you care about somebody, how do you work through issues?
55:52
Those type of things are the, you know, again, it's never too late.
55:57
But
55:59
the whole idea that we have to talk about red flags is just, it's upsetting because I fear that
56:05
very often what happens, especially when girls, can't speak to the boys as much, but that the
56:11
girls are in 12th grade and in their seminary years being bombarded with all of this, watch
56:16
out for this red flag.
56:17
And there are some amazing organizations out there that really are guiding
56:22
young women and helping them.
56:23
And there are therapists available to help girls work through
56:26
some of these challenges when they're not sure if what they're seeing is problematic or not.
56:30
out actually that these organizations that are accessible to every single one of you and people
56:38
that I really truly believe are accessible.
56:40
So this way there's the resources for the parents,
56:43
for the kids, because I think it's extremely important to have that out there.
56:47
Right.
56:48
100%.
56:48
And all that being said, with my introduction of like, it's so sad that we have
56:51
to talk about red flags because really there are so many beautiful, positive things we should be
56:55
sharing with our kids.
56:57
Along those lines, I would say we should be concerned if a girl feels like
57:05
a guy is not respecting her, is not making her feel valued, if he has a lot of negative things
57:15
to say about her choices or her friends, about her family.
57:19
All of those are definitely things
57:21
to look out for.
57:22
And I feel like, again, from the more positive perspective is we want to hear our
57:29
sons and our daughters come home and just say like, oh, I think I'm the best version of myself
57:34
when I'm this.
57:35
This person makes me feel great about myself.
57:37
This person, not only do I want to
57:39
be with this person more, but I want to be with them because I like how I feel about myself when
57:43
I'm with this person.
57:45
I came home from my second date with my husband and we had a crazy experience
57:49
where like somebody came over to us.
57:51
We were at the Allegria Hotel.
57:53
We were on the rooftop and I
57:55
had a soda and this drunk woman came over to us.
57:58
And the way that he interacted with this person
58:01
made me go, oh, he's a normal and be respectful.
58:06
And he had fun with it.
58:08
And I'm like, I could have
58:09
fun with this person.
58:10
I could trust this person.
58:11
And I really like this person.
58:13
And that was on
58:14
a second date.
58:15
And I was like, oh, green flag, green flag, green flag.
58:17
Exactly.
58:18
Exactly.
58:19
And
58:19
that really showed me that long-term, he's my person.
58:24
Right.
58:25
And I think that that's what we
58:26
really need to have for our kids.
58:29
If everybody's walking around with their list of red flags in
58:31
their pocket, then they're so busy looking for what's dangerous and what's bad that they're
58:35
missing out on possibly some very beautiful, positive, wonderful points of connection.
58:39
100%.
58:40
And I also think that as parents, both are parents, modeling in the home for our kids,
58:46
starting at a young age, I find that what you brought up, how like we only talk about sex and
58:51
relationships in 11th, 12th and seminary.
58:54
And you're like, but what about like when you're a
58:56
kid?
58:56
Like my kids see my husband grab my butt.
58:59
I'm not going to lie.
59:00
Okay.
59:01
They do.
59:02
And they have to
59:03
stop saying, like they say to me all the time, they're like, mom, stop flirting with dad.
59:07
It's
59:07
so gross.
59:08
Stop kissing him.
59:08
And I'm like, good.
59:10
I want you to continuously say to me,
59:14
stop flirting rather than stop fighting.
59:16
Because you won't like, that's important.
59:18
For a kid to see you love your significant other and them love you back, that's not embarrassing.
59:27
That's beautiful.
59:28
That's beautiful.
59:29
And it's okay if it's embarrassing.
59:30
Yeah.
59:31
By the way,
59:31
I don't care.
59:31
It doesn't matter.
59:32
Part of our job is to embarrass our kids.
59:33
100%.
59:34
We're never going
59:34
to get them.
59:35
To teach them that being embarrassed or awkward doesn't kill you.
59:38
Yeah.
59:39
It passes eventually.
59:40
It's not the worst thing.
59:42
I think also it's a beautiful opportunity
59:44
and this is something, this is one of the challenges that I discussed with brides before
59:47
the wedding.
59:48
One of the challenges of observing this mitzvah is that you have no education for it.
59:52
So it's literally like you're a balchuvah, right?
59:57
You're somebody who like the first time you're in
59:59
someone's house, if you've had no religious experience, you come into someone's house for
1:00:02
Shabbos lunch and you're seeing that things are very different.
1:00:06
And we had people over a number
1:00:09
of years who would come in and their first Shabbos experience, and they would ask questions like,
1:00:13
can I flush the toilet?
1:00:15
Can I put this in your dairy garbage?
1:00:17
It's meat.
1:00:17
Can I put it in the
1:00:18
garbage that's on the dairy side of your kitchen?
1:00:20
And that's, I often think, which you laugh about
1:00:23
that.
1:00:23
Obviously it's fine.
1:00:25
Why?
1:00:25
Why would they know that it's fine?
1:00:27
And I feel like that is the
1:00:28
sense of not being anchored, not feeling confident that a lot of women have who are used to feeling
1:00:37
like, I know Shabbos, I know Koshra's, I know this area, I know that area.
1:00:42
And then all of a sudden,
1:00:42
they're like, wait, I don't even know if I could do this most basic thing.
1:00:46
That is very unnerving.
1:00:47
It is a really disturbing experience for a lot of women who are used to feeling confident and
1:00:52
learned and like they're used to doing the right thing.
1:00:55
They want to do the right thing.
1:00:56
And now
1:00:57
all of a sudden, I don't actually know
1:00:59
if I'm even allowed to move left or right.
1:01:02
And I think it's okay, honestly,
1:01:05
for a family where it's the norm,
1:01:07
where the parents show affection for each other,
1:01:09
and then sometimes they don't because they can't.
1:01:12
And I think it's a wonderful way
1:01:14
to just do a little bit of introduction
1:01:16
based on what age the kid is,
1:01:19
to be able to say like,
1:01:20
oh, why didn't I kiss mommy goodbye
1:01:22
before I left for work today?
1:01:23
Because the Torah says sometimes we can kiss mommies
1:01:26
and sometimes we can't.
1:01:27
I actually love that
1:01:29
because I think there's so much secrecy around mikveh
1:01:32
that the truth is we need to expose our kids to it
1:01:36
so that it is normal.
1:01:37
That like there is a normal approach rather than this fear.
1:01:40
And if we start them young understanding
1:01:42
rather than like, fear, fear, fear.
1:01:44
Right, what if they find out?
1:01:46
What if they find out you just made their lives a lot easier?
1:01:50
It's a little awkward, a little embarrassing
1:01:52
the older they get.
1:01:53
And you're giving them a gift.
1:01:55
You're really giving them a gift.
1:01:57
I actually think that that is the perfect place to end because ultimately mikvah, taras
1:02:05
mishpacha, really is just a gift.
1:02:08
It is a gift.
1:02:09
And you can decide whether or not you want to open that gift or not.
1:02:14
But Hashem is giving us that gift and it's in your control how you want to use it.
1:02:22
Absolutely.
1:02:23
Absolutely.
1:02:24
I'm not a believer in guarantees.
1:02:26
I get a little, I get upset when I hear people say like,
1:02:30
oh, if you do X, Y, or Z,
1:02:31
then you will get A, B, and C in your life.
1:02:34
I think we all know the world doesn't work like that.
1:02:36
Hashem makes calculations that none of us are privy to.
1:02:39
I think the only guarantee we have in life
1:02:41
is that if we follow what the Torah says
1:02:43
and we follow what we believe is the will of Hashem,
1:02:47
then our lives will be more meaningful.
1:02:49
Our lives will be more meaningful.
1:02:50
It doesn't necessarily mean they'll be easier.
1:02:52
It doesn't necessarily mean that we'll access all of the things that we hope we will, but we know that we're doing our part.
1:03:00
And I think at the end of the day, that's all that he expects from us.
1:03:07
We just have to do our best at whatever level and capacity you can.
1:03:12
Just keep doing your best.
1:03:14
100%.
1:03:14
Keep learning.
1:03:15
Keep asking.
1:03:16
And pour into yourself because you will never regret a time where you take an opportunity to grow.
1:03:28
Where you invest in this relationship, whether it's the relationship with your spouse or your relationship with God.
1:03:34
I think in general, halacha is just something that creates a lot of mindfulness.
1:03:38
It creates a lot of discipline.
1:03:40
Both of those things are really high up on the list of recipes for success in life.
1:03:47
thank you so much thank you thank you for having me oh my gosh it's my greatest honor and pleasure
1:03:53
thank you thank you
1:03:59
um so i don't really want to because i record i think i next time i'm in