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Intermodal's Moment: EXPO 2026 and the Case for IMCs · The Intermodal Logistics Podcast

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks very much for joining us on this edition of the Intermodal Logistics Podcast.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Kevin Baxter with my co-host today, InTech Logistics President, Shelly Austin.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, Shelley.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, Kevin.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Rick was talking about how you haven't uh haven't been with me in here as much lately.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: So uh we had to had to get you in here.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Shame on me.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Shame on me.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: And uh someone who has uh been with us a few times and uh joining us again today to talk about uh the upcoming IANA Intermodal Expo and uh whatever else we we hit on along the way is IANA President and CEO uh Anne Ranke.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: And thanks very much for uh joining us again.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like you know how Johnny Carson would always have Don Rickles on his show on the Tonight Show.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like I'm becoming Don Rickles.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: I hope I can be as a music and entertaining as he is.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Excellent.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we uh I don't know if we have an Ed McMahon to go along with that too.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: You'll correct.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: We need the whole.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me on.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: I really appreciate it.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I am very excited to talk about Expo.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we are less than uh a month away, and I'm sure uh, I mean, it's it's a big thing on the calendar.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: I know you've uh you and your team have put a lot of uh effort into it.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um let's start with uh for someone who's just joining us for the first time, what is it?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: It is the intermodal trade show for all of those who are in the intermodal, and we all know this word, and maybe some of us hate it, ecosystem.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: And the reason that we have it is there is more power to be together, and our association is the industry convener and the industry leader, and so whatever is top of mind to our membership, we are trying to find ways to A, talk about, educate, and network around.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: And whatever we can, maybe there are some takeaways that come out of it.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: So some of the folks in the intermodal industry, as yourselves, have been around for a long time and know everything there is to know and probably have forgotten more than I will ever know.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: But there are some who are relatively new to the space, and so we want to have a program that fits all of those categories from the sort of the never been before to the been around for a while, because you know, content is always changing, and so it needs to stay relevant.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so as you approached this year, this was your uh your second one now as uh leader of IANA, and uh after you went through the first one, what did you kind of take away from that?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And what what did you adjust for this year that that you wanted to, you know, uh include more people, maybe, uh change the programming a little bit?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: What what was sort of your your takeaway from last year that moved you into uh what this year's version is going to be?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and Shelly, please chime in here.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: My takeaway was that there was an expectation that the expo was going to be the same thing every year.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: And that there were a lot of people who go out to Long Beach, maybe they even register for expo, but they don't actually go into the exhibit hall or attend the sessions.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so we wanted to change that.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: And how do you change it?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's probably gonna be an iterative process, but the first step was convening our very smart board members like Shelly to get their input.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: What did they see that went right?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: What did they see that went wrong?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things they said first and foremost is we really want to hear from the railroads.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: The railroads should have a prominent voice there.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so, as we know, ripped from the headlines, the UPNS merger, top of mind.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: So one of our board members, Carrie Kirchover from UP, said, I will ask Jim Venna to see if he will speak.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: And thankfully he said yes.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: BNSF then said, Well, we'll see if Katie Farmer can speak.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: And in fact, Katie Farmer can speak.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so they're speaking back to back on Tuesday, September 15th.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: That's exciting, but it's also really, really topical.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: You don't want to miss that conversation.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: So that's one of the first things.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: But it sort of went beyond that.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's how can we have a reinvigorated approach to the content?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: How do we have refreshed speakers, and how do we appeal to audiences that may be different that hadn't necessarily been included in the past?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: Shelly, what did I love to hear your input on that too?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, so I like where you started out, Ann, where you were talking about um the mix of people that have been around and have gone many years, and then the mix of people that haven't gone.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: And and what we wanted to do was like Ann mentioned, is it, you know, people knew about Expo and they were always kind of around Expo, but how how do you capture that audience?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: How do you bring that audience in and have them participate in all of the IANA activities versus just kind of a meeting ground for people?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's what we kind of saw in years past.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of that is just, hey, let's let's shake it up.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Let, you know, if if everybody's seen all the uh the LinkedIn and all the marketing out there, it's the new era of intermodal, but it's its timing is perfect, right?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: So the timing is just absolutely perfect in the fact that intermodal is hot right now.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, aren't we?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: It is, it's fine, yeah.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, we got there.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, you know, hopefully it's not a little blip.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, hopefully, but we're actually seeing some growth.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: And for years, we have said, hey, we, you know, we love intermodal.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: Intermodal is great, but we're kind of doing a shift.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: We want to see growth, not just a shift in in intermodal.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: And uh to do to do that and to to kind of add to that and bring people in, you you need to you need to get people more invigorated about the product itself, about what intermodal is, and and get it all together versus people kind of being in their own separate little meetings.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's one of the biggest things that um we all spoke about is is how I mean we we have so many great members of the IANA Association.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: So none of them purposely separated or did separate meetings.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's just how it ended up.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's how it evolved.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's how it, yeah, that's how it evolved.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: And and we have had some amazing participation from the railroads and from everybody else to say, yeah, we're on board with this.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Let's all let's bring it all together and let's kind of you know have these opportunities where and I guess what I'm trying to say, Ann, is like that, you know, people would go to some meetings and go to some of the the con, and then they all go do their own parties and they all go do their own dinners and so on.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: So we've even taken the nightlife and brought it in, right?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: So there's just so many things that if you just participate in the IANA activities, one, you're getting the same opportunity and network, but also you don't have time to do the other stuff, which is kind of that's that's what we're looking for, is you don't have the time to go set up these separate ones because who won who doesn't want to go to IANA After Dark and listen to the TEUs?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: And who doesn't want to do, you know, all these fun things that we're gonna have that we haven't had in years past?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that will help invigorate everybody to really enjoy this, really take in the content.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: I I if anybody misses the the UP and the BNSF going you know back to back on stage, they're totally missing out because I I can tell you that it should be standing room only because that's extremely exciting.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that's only a small part of of what's exciting about Expo this year.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and so you're you're exactly right.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: First of all, we're in an intermodal moment, and I keep saying we want to make it an intermodal constant where we're not just uh having you know the once-in-a- once-in-a-while users, we want to have the consistent users of intermodal.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's an important conversation that we have to have, and we'll have the crowd together to do it.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: But the second thing is, and Shelley, you know this from TIA, we really don't want to be some sort of like separate parallel universe where IANA is going on in this direction and you're off in your own direction.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: We really want everyone to be together because this is sort of a journey.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like we're we're trying to embrace what's important and critical to the intermodal industry.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: And the only way that you can really get to some greater understanding of that is by all being together.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so, yes, I understand the business needs to get done, but business can get done on the IANA floor, and we have a lot of opportunities for that.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so, again, this is gonna be iterative.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna shake, shake, uh, shake things up a little bit.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: People will be like, what do you mean I can't have 19 meetings during your address, right?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's gonna be a little bit of a change, but hopefully over time, uh people will get adjusted.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: One other thing, or actually multiple other things since we're talking, is that we're trapping the breakout sessions on the exhibit floor to really try to make sure that people do go to the exhibit floor.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: And we have the meeting spaces that typically were either in you know adjacent hotels or uh on the top floor of the convention center, those meeting spaces will be right next to the exhibit hall again to encourage people to be kind of close to each other within the same confines of the same room.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think that's important.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so we didn't take away that the meetings were not important.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: This is very important.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of it's it's contract uh time, it's negotiation time, and that's what drives our business, right?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: But what we wanted to do is make sure that everybody's not too far away that they can't get back.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: So if we bring everybody together and give them an opportunity to have that space, have those meetings, but bring it in the same environment in the same space, then it's a lot easier for people to take advantage of what else is going on at that time and still have the effective meetings.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it would, I really think it's gonna work out extremely well.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but like Ann said, there'll be things we learned this year that we're gonna improve on uh, you know, next year because you have to you have to give certain things a try and then you figure out different ways to enhance, improve, or or change.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: But I do think that everybody will notice and feel a very different expo than what they've felt in years past.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: We're ready for it.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's go back first uh a little bit to uh having uh Jim Venna and Katie Farmer there.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: So so you know, we'll start with Jim because we uh obviously the merger is is the the big big news in uh the industry over the last year plus um we don't hear a lot in in a lot of the uh the places where he's spoken and uh the articles really about like how this impacts the folks doing intermodal.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um there there's been a little bit, but uh it hasn't been as heavy uh as part of the coverage, I think, overall.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so how do you kind of shape what uh what you're expecting to hear, what people want to hear uh in the IANA membership uh for his speech?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean maybe I have intermodal blinders on, but I do feel like he is actually addressed a lot of the intermodal um story for us and the importance of capturing intermodal market share.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: When he talks about, and when they say in their application that one of the advantages of this merger will be the conversion of these watershed markets, that to me is an important discussion.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: So, what's a watershed market?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's where over the road now is dominating, but the mileage is long enough that intermodal really could play and make a play for it.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: The fact that they're thinking about that as their growth strategy and part of their merger application to me means they recognize the importance of intermodal.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: Consequently, Katie Farmer also has highlighted the significance of intermodal.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: Now she chooses to go about it a different way through collaboration with other railroads as opposed to a formal merger.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: Either way, they're recognizing this is the bright spot for railroad growth.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: Railroad growth has been, as we know, over the last decade or so pretty flat, not intermodal.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: And if we can get that kind of conversation going about how important that is for the growth of the railroad sort of future success, then the next step is all right, well, how do we achieve it?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so to me, those two conversations are enormously important because they have such different worldviews on how you achieve it.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: One other thing is this week we saw that the STB merger process has been unfrozen.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: The unfro that makes me think of the unfrozen caveman lawyer, but it's been unfrozen.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so what that means is now there's sort of this schedule for filings, and the final filings, it looks like, would be May of 2027.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: And at that point, I would assume the STV would say, okay, the record is complete and we'll make our determination.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: So we know nothing's gonna happen at least until 2027.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: So that means there's a lot of time to talk about the different worldviews, the competing worldviews.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and I think it's important.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I agree with you 100%, and in what we've seen is a little bit of a taste of that with the um situation with the truckload market and where a lot of capacity has been pulled out.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's it's it's it's lightened a little bit, but let's just go back to you know, like mid-July when it was like really, really tight and there were no trucks, and it wasn't just one market, right?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was all the markets.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: And at that point in time, we saw shippers reaching out for intermodal services that were hitting those watershed markets that you're talking about, right?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: These ones that people had always been using truck for, and then they came to us and they were like, hey, we need to have an intermodal solution.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's not you know really conducive because you know, us providers, we'd look at it and be like, you want intermodal on that?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: And and and so, but we could find a way to do it, right?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's what's so cool about intermodal, is you it's parts and pieces.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: So you can put it together and you can give a solution.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: And what we were finding is that the the shippers were were needing this solution.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: So if you think about it, we we executed it.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then as you look at all that the two railroads, no matter what path they're taking, they're adding these services that fill that gap to complete the growth of intermodal versus us just being the rebound when something goes wrong in truck or when something goes wrong in something else, intermodal's been the rebound, right?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: And you can't you can't have consistency on the railroads if you're just the rebound.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we can't everybody complains that it the service isn't good or this and that and the other.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you can't have really solid and good service if if you're constantly in this ebb and flow and you're just the backstop, right?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: So that's where these solutions, no matter which way it goes, is adding this opportunity for us to keep the growth versus have a little spurt of growth and fall backwards again.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, and Shelly, it's so important.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: You as an IMC, you're kind of the orchestrator, the conductor, the freight quarterback, whatever you want to call it, in developing, first of all, kind of muscle memory around long-term strategic planning, because we, you know, we're not the long-term, we're the long-term strategic plan.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: We're not the, you know, spot market.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: You don't do a whole lot of spot market stuff with intermodal.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: And so having the conversation with the shippers is like we want to be part of your trajectory going forward.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: And we want you to understand how you can plan for this if you have a lot of volume over a long distance.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not just, oh, geez, prices are out of control.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna go call Shelly.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, let's make it part of your muscle memory, of your your you know, daily life, having intermodal as your your flex choice.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: And so that that's an educational process that is important in that that what our IMCs are doing right now.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you mentioned it, so let's let's get into something that you also talked about a little bit uh the last time you were on with us was uh that Iana's working on a survey to uh to learn more about uh attitudes about intermodal and and areas where maybe things can improve uh on uh the end of the providers towards the shippers and all of those things, people who like it, people who don't like it, all that kind of thing.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned the freight quarterback.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's the name of uh a panel, a session that that's going on kind of pre-everything else at uh IANA for uh for some members.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so um tell us about what what you're going to be presenting there without spoiling anything, obviously.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because uh what that's about.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_03: I I think the first and foremost is what does the customer expect?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's kind of the critical understanding for all of us that if the customer expects reliability, which it does, if the customer expects visibility, which it does, obviously wants low cost, wants performance, and then wants to have some understanding of what the sort of strategic use of intermodal is, then how can we meet that?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so the sort of initial stage of our survey of our customers revealed this is what we expect.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: And we understand that.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: None of this should be sort of shocking to any of us because we're all living in a world where Amazon has changed our expectations about visibility and timeliness.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: Speed seems to be a kind of de facto expectation, but not it's not a necessary one, again, depending on your kind of time uh and strategy around when you plan for the move.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so what we're gonna talk about is all right, how how can intermodal meet those expectations?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: Because we think we can, uh, but it's incumbent on all of us to do our very our level best to meet those expectations, meaning the service has to be good.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: We can't be a black box, we have to have communication, we have to invest in technology and AI to ensure some level of visibility, you know, across the supply chain, not just parts and pieces, as as Shelly said, but across it.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then and then how can we make sure that people understand that they don't have to understand everything that happens in an intermodal move, but they have to have the right partner in an IMC who does.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that sometimes deters shippers because they think it's too complicated, it's too complex, they know it's lower price, but it's like, is this too complicated for me to understand?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it doesn't matter.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: If you're working with the right partner, they're gonna make it easy for you.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it it dovetails with the the piece that you just had uh published in uh inbound logistics too, where you were talking about the importance of uh the IMC and 3PL in this this window of of conversion and keeping those converts uh long term.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um where do you see the that role of uh the the you know you call the the IMC the the freight quarterback, the the 3PL, all all of that uh as as a key piece of of this puzzle.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you see maybe the the shippers not understanding exactly what the the IMC does and how the IMC turns that back and says, this is what we're doing, this is why um we're here, and you know, don't worry about that marketing part in the middle.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: And Shelly, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think part of it is if you're a shipper, you're not entirely sure what intermodal means, you think there's a train involved, and then you think, do I call up the railroad?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: Who do I call?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: How do I how do I figure that out, right?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: And uh obviously there is some retail uh intermodal, but not much.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so they're not necessarily that understanding and appreciation of the role the IMC plays.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: Part of what we're gonna talk about, what you said, Kevin, is is that how do we make sure that there is a greater understanding and appreciation for the role the IMC plays because they're like your transportation management system.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: They're not just out there to drive sales, they're out there to drive growth and you know, customer excellence.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so, you know, I think the IMC, Shelly, you you tell me if I'm wrong.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think there is a greater understanding and appreciation after the pandemic of how critical the role is.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: There's always more that can be done.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: One other point I'd make is the IMC is going to be the one you're negotiating with uh as the shipper as opposed to the railroad.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so, how do you how do you make that um understood?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: And do you need to bring in the railroad at any point?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's part of the conversation, is just not necessarily for contractual purposes, but just so there's an understanding and appreciation, all right, this shipper needs this, this railroad requires that.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna explain it and be your ambassador and sort of your interpreter and your advocate.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, sometimes it's good for these folks to talk to each other as well.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I I agree.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think, but it's important too that um, so as we talk about IANA and we talk about intermodal, we're we're we're we're talking a lot about one of the one of the modes, right?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking about the IMC, the 3PL, we're talking about that piece.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and yes, we're here to be inform, you know, the informational piece and the guidance and and and help the customer.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: But more importantly, what we're here to do is be that problem solver for the customer and be the one that's gonna do it before the customer even comes.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: comes to you to do that.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: So basically what I'm saying is as we talk about all the the, and this is something for the folks that may be listening that that aren't as familiar with the intermodal product or IANA or Expo, it's very important to understand that at Expo you have everything, all the components of the intermodal move.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: See, so it yes, we always talk about the railroads and the railroads are extremely important, right?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: But they are only one piece of that move.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a lot of other factors that impact the customers that they just assume is the railroad.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so what it what is our job as as an IMC, our job as an IMC is that the customer doesn't need to worry about if the other pieces aren't working, we're going to have to make that change on the back end for them to make the full move work for them, right?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so where I go with that, and it, you know, it it seems like every year there's one mode or one section of the intermodal product that is the highlight, like that is causing the problems.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'll say highlight, but it it's it's the one having the biggest issues at the time.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of times we are we're going to this expo either right at peak, right after peak, right before you know we're we're we're we're we're dancing around that peak time a lot of times as we're going, you know, maybe at the end of it, maybe at the middle of it, whatever it is, and there's always something going on that's that's impacting the service or impacting the availability.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so what I'm seeing in this is right now Dre trucking is extremely impacted in in what's happening.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so and all of your Dre providers are going to be at Expo as well.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: So what what I you know for us as an IMC, we have to make sure that we have a great network with all of these DRE providers because if something's going wrong in the intermodal solution, maybe it's the railroad but many times it's what's happening on the front end or the back end and it's our job to make sure we're flexible enough to fix that or or or switch that so that the customer is not feeling that pain.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what we are we're we're we we are orchestrating we're coordinating we're we're we're nimble and we can make changes and and you know if you look at a a truckload solution you can't do that.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: You got to go to a whole nother company you know because it it it's all one piece.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: But for us if we see you know a a glitch in the process of what's happening for our customer we should be able to on the back side change something in how we have that component put together to make it better for the customer.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I probably went a little bit too far on that but I think that's yeah I think that's what's so important about the function of an IMC is we aren't we don't have to use one any certain way to move the intermodal solution for the customer.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know if you are a true non-asset IMC you can use any railroad you want to use you can use any kind type of box you want to use you can use any Dre carrier you want to use and then you can put those together and make sure that what you're doing is the end product is what the customer expects.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: You're exactly right and and one of the things we wanted to highlight is that because the Dre population is challenged right now and and Shelly I'm assuming some of it has to do with the kind of regulatory enforcement that we're seeing whether it's the non-domicide CDL or English language proficiency but also fuel prices because that's affecting the the larger truck market.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I can't imagine that the DRE marketplace is immune from that.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: But we also want to make sure that there are those folks who are interested in DRE as as owner operators or independent drivers that there is an education for them and they get to meet people too.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: So we're having a truck driver appreciation day on Wednesday September 16th so that they can be introduced to all that they need to know whether it's insurance requirements whether it's participation in the UIIA whether it's just having an understanding about the roadability requirements and that kind of thing we want to have an education for them as well.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: That's a community that is one of the largest populations in our membership and so we want to make sure that they're also included and they feel like okay this is a challenging environment of at least but I have a good basis of understanding of how I could operate a business.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and and honestly they're the key to the success of the of the solution they really are they're the first touch to the the customer and the last touch to the customer so we have to do what what it takes to promote and and I love it that we're doing that.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's uh I think it's timely because I think isn't that a driver appreciation week for uh a lot of yes so I I I think it's great that we're highlighting and in and making it uh a part of our event too.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah I mean that's so when we talk about reimagining the expo it really is to try to make contact with communities that perhaps haven't felt like they've there's a need for them to go to expo or or a reason for them.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so we're providing that rationale.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think one of the biggest things and this is absolutely board directed as well is is our outreach to the beneficial cargo owners so they can get to know what intermodal is who the players are and have those conversations and so we have a whole schedule of events for the beneficial cargo owners who register and they don't have to pay much and so it's really just an opportunity for us to reach out to them and say here's what Intermodal is I hope you you know I hope we can provide relevant content for you and the people that you need to meet.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: That was my next question and you you you just jumped right on it there.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I just tweeted it out.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah the the the shipper focus is is another piece of it as you said there's there's uh there's programming specifically for them but of course they can also just mingle see uh see the process see some of these uh breakout sessions the railroads obviously it's uh it's a a great place to to get kind of a holistic view of intermodal in a very short short time that's right and you know we have had some mixed success in the past Shelly you know this with outreach to BCOs I think it is really really timely because of the intermodal moment we're having we are seeing some success but we also want to make sure that they know that first of all they're not going to be they're gonna be targeted in the way that they have good content but not targeted in the way that everyone's gonna jump all over them.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: We want this to be a a safe space just to learn and appreciate and understand without being like sold to right so so that it's a fine balance obviously because we want them to meet people that they need to know for their business but we also want them to feel like all right this was this was worthwhile because I actually learned a lot.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: So uh you mentioned uh a number of one of the reasons that uh expo happens is to to hit on the big issues of the day and uh and so you have the uh the sessions that go along with the the main hall uh content as well so what did you kind of identify as uh as a few of the big ones I know you you hit a little bit on AI technology as being a thing that uh that IMCs and and the intermodal community needs to embrace to a degree but what else is there uh along the program that that you really wanted to highlight?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah so we have three tracks there's the growth track and so we just spoke ad nauseum about growth and how critical it is we have the the tech track so to speak you know talking about AI A V E V what does that future look like how do we think about it and and as you may know or may not we are staff we have real smart people who God knows are smarter than the rest of us combined who emanate from from probably from Silicon Valley and know a whole lot about AI and how to use it but they're developing a framework for us that our members can use as they start putting AI in their daily work life as well.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: So we have that we also have a track about sort of risk and security and so one of the things that galvanizes all of us unfortunately is are things like cargo theft which continues to be a scourge.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think some of the numbers have dropped but not the amount stolen.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: So while maybe there's not as much theft cases there are just there are many more valuable things being stolen and I don't know if you guys saw the headline last week where a BNSF train was you know the the police guarding the train were under fire by these cargo thieves you know wherever they were in the middle of of BNSF territory.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: And that's really really terrifying.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so we continue to push on on legislation that would basically try to take a bite out of some of that crime which is is challenging enough.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_03: But cargo theft is one the regulatory pressure is obviously a concern and so those are the kind of three tracks so as we think about what our um program looks like we know that these are the three kind of critical issues that are facing intermodal and so we have the right speakers to talk about all of those things in a variety of fashions.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I would be remiss if I didn't bring up at this point in time that the other thing that's a huge highlight of the expo and I don't know and you you'll have to tell me because you are the the um conference queen um but I don't know many other organizations that do what we do with the upcoming future leaders in our industry.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so we do an extreme highlight on the the you know the students the colleges we have our which is one of my favorite things every time is the case competition where our scholarship schools come together and they compete and they compete with some really really challenging things.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean I've gone into this and I've I've been in this industry for who knows how long and there's been some of these case competitions that I feel like I would have failed if I was in a class.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I mean that's humbling um and it's very humbling since I'm judging um but you know we we do this case competition and it amazes me every year to see these schools and how they compete and we add new schools each year.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: But what's even further important than that is so they're doing this competition but these future leaders are in this whole the whole expo like they get to see these things.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: They get to go see you know the CEO of the railroad speak.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: They get to go look at what the future of intermodal is and and what the technology is doing.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I always say that in the one thing I love about our industry logistics slash intermodal whatever you may call it there is a job there there's a job for everyone in every field in our space.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: So you like numbers there's a job for you in in in this space you like um you know engineering and and putting things together and there's a job for you in this space you know that it you like sales you like marketing you like operations what whatever it is that you have this focus there's a job for you in our industry and these folks get to see and actually touch and feel and meet people that are in that industry.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's great for them but it's wonderful for us as well because who knows if we're gonna meet our next employee or next uh you know manager or next rock star um while we're sitting there you know shaking their hand at the expo.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: So you know we give I think at this point Shelly correct my number but it's something like we've given out is it$15 million?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: Some if some very large amount you're very close.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah it's it's around that number yeah around that number some very large amount that we've given to s to universities and colleges that have supply chain programs and we give them the money they've determined which students are eligible to receive the scholarship but we we do that not just because we have the milk of human kindness coursing through our veins but we do that because we want to make sure that this industry stays vital for the future and I was lucky enough to pres not judge just watch a case competition and if you're ever depressed about successive generations which I think is a generational bias right you always think that the generations that follow you are a bunch of bums.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: If you ever feel that way go to a case competition and as Shelly said these folks have limited number of hours to put together a really chat the solution to a really challenging intermodal problem is something between six and 10 hours just depending and they put it together and then they're supposed to present to people like Shelly professionals in the intermodal industry so not not not folks that don't know anything.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: These people know everything um and I was just so impressed with their poise their ability to reason quickly their appreciation understanding of an industry that they know nothing about you know 10 hours earlier it is really something that is um kind of gives you restores faith in humanity and the world so God bless I'm so glad that we continue that program and again selfishly it helps the intermodal industry because if they get exposure to a lot of the people and and the kind of information around intermodal maybe they'll join the industry.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah we had the uh the winners of last year's competition on the podcast while we were at Expo last year and we will be back again.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for doing that we're so happy that that you're coming back.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah we're excited too and uh we are planning on talking to the winners this year as well uh Mississippi State was the winner last year uh congratulations again to them and uh we'll we'll see who uh who comes out on top but yeah it was it was great to even just get a chance to to speak to each of the students involved in the team and uh they talked through their strategy and uh did a really great job of uh explaining sort of their uh angle of that experience as well so uh yeah definite definite recommend there and I wanted to also you you keep saying future leaders and and that's another piece of it for for IANA you have the future leaders of intermodal program uh and I I think that was just uh that group was just selected recently right for the the next uh cohort yeah so this is now our cohort three is that right cohort three yeah God bless and so these are people who are already in the industry but are relatively new or relatively junior and so this is an opportunity for again for support exposure to all the kinds of people that they want to meet and and really a way to say you know first of all your company is investing in you because you're attending these meetings and this is an additional charge so you don't that means that you are seen as a bright and up and comer.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_03: So that's important.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: So that's helpful from for their perspective but it benefits them because they're able to meet people that they can't you know are are gonna be potentially helpful or mentors in their careers.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: And again this is to to not to be selfish to be but to be selfish we want these people who are seen as bright up and comers to stay in the industry.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: We don't want them to go you know God knows into farming or something like that.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: We would want them to stay within intermodal and so that's really our sneaky side bet is that by giving them the support and and the resources and all that that they stay one thing I have to talk about and I can't believe I have been so remiss not to discuss is that Shelly herself will be speaking as part of a really important panel.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: I mean we've got to talk about this Kevin can I talk about it yeah that's uh that'll be on the Wednesday right the Wednesday so she is part of the panel where it's really some of them are doom and gloom folk you know because economists typically are the doom and gloom folk but it's really talking about what we're seeing in the numbers in terms of volume growth and where the market is really seeming to kind of be bright and where markets maybe are not so much where um where we place as it relates to over the road trucking how we're doing um region to region port to port etc and so Shelly gives the bright chirpy side which last year it was like she's setting me up I mean my God last year you were the only bright spot because everybody else would be depressed this year if Larry Gross is depressed I don't need that means he's always depressed.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: That means he's in a state of depression because this is actually a really really good time to be an intermodal.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: So Shelly I hope you're not the only cheerful one.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I don't think I would have to bring up the mood a little bit yeah yeah well sometimes you just gotta make a different twist on on on what's going on so so we're excited about that panel.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's always a real crowd pleaser because people like numbers they like to understand what the data trends are telling them.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: We have a terrific economist Andrew Seibold who came uh last year from Federal Highway Administration and he is like the data nerd who loves data nerds like he's the data nerd consummate.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so we're really excited about what he's able to achieve.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: We started this intermodal volume index the IVI and so we're very very excited about kind of that potential of really owning the data in that space there are a lot of people who use our data and they don't necessarily credit us well enough that's a time for another story.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure we can do that on another podcast.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so we you know we want if we're creating this data if it's coming from us we want to be the ones that say look we own this we're the source of truth you need to speak to us and come to us to understand it.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: So the one thing I'll say about that panel Anne is it's the one panel that is going to be completely different that day right so so that's what's so cool about this one is we we are going to talk about the state of intermodal at that time.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: So when we have pre-calls and we do things the group uh that that are on this panel, we can talk about general things, but we have no idea what our script is going to be on that morning because everything right now is changing so rapidly in our industry and it changes week by week.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so if anybody wants to know literally the most current state of intermodal that's going to be the panel to attend to because it we everybody on that panel knows that we don't have a script.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: We wey we don't have a script Kevin but everybody knows that we have to be able to talk to exactly what's happening at that time in intermodal.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's an expectation you you know if you come away you're like all right here's what I'm gonna anticipate for the rest of the year.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's kind of our obligation right again yeah we're trying to provide be the source of truth and provide the perspectives that are kind of multimodal we have a trucking perspective a marine perspective an IMC perspective and then our economists and so that's really your kind of your full your full panoply of folk.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah well um before we wrap up here the you you mentioned the INA uh after dark piece what are some of the other we're talking all of the serious stuff so far.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah we're gonna party on it and it should still be fun but the serious stuff is fun too because you're you're interacting with folks and everything but there's actual just like fun plain fun.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: So uh what what are some of the plain fun things that are uh that's kind of like not really a good plain and fun takes away from the fun yes exciting fun yeah yeah so we we do have a lot of fun evening events we have various receptions that you've got to go to make sure you get on the invite list to because I'll be there the TEUs will be there et cetera but one of the things and maybe this is nerdy fun but I think it's fun regardless is that we want to highlight that there is tech that has been introduced into the industry.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so we have a quasi-tech corridor whether it's a Tesla truck that IMC logistics is going to put in or Glide has their um showcase A V kind of chassis trailer technology we've got potentially humble robotics who are going to put bring in their technology and and why is that because this is a you know an industry the the intermodal space has been around for a really long time and I think for some people they thought it was dormant.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: Our point is it is not and it is becoming ever more innovative and so we really want to highlight that and that to me again we're gonna start small we'll have a few of these purveyors and as we get as we sort of progress this new and reimagined expo we will have more because there is a lot of tech that is entering our space not just for the equipment side also for the kind of the sensor detection you know visibility all of that stuff because of cargo theft continuing to be a risk.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: We have a lot of tech that's coming in about that it's really really exciting.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know um so I don't know if that's your fun that that you think about but seeing that tech on the floor is pretty cool.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's fun.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah well there's events on the floor too so you can have your
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: fun event and wander around and see the the nerdy fun too whatever whatever floats your boat or you can meet a puppy you can pet a puppy I I think I need to do that especially with all of my my with my dog soon clean the puppies will be clean I won't have the same drama I think that's important.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: You said shake it up earlier and I almost like went right into the something but I was like let it keep going.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah and then you can take a picture of yourself your headshot with the puppy uh on top of the new equipment.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: No, I don't think you can do that.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: But the point is that there's a lot of stuff that we're trying to reimagine.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_03: The headshot for example is really targeted towards the young professionals who maybe have not had an opportunity to do that.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: And you think why is that important?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: It is actually important.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: It can be your calling card for your LinkedIn profile for your social media that kind of thing and and the more professional it looks maybe the more eyeballs you get and so that's an important thing too.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we're we're we're doing a a whole bunch of cool stuff and where can people find out more and still register at this point if they if they're hearing about it right now and are interested in attending.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes intermodal.org backslash expo we welcome all comers and it's the uh 14th to 16th is kind of the main program in uh Long Beach.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: All right and thanks again for joining us we appreciate it and we uh look forward to seeing you uh there in uh just a few weeks' time I know see you soon thanks so much so as we said it's uh less than a month from now and uh we're right back at it what uh what's the thing I mean I think you you explained a lot of what you're looking forward to is there is there one thing in particular that this time sticks out to you uh versus any other or or even just some of the the the gold standard things that you like to do anyway?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh well I mean I mentioned some of the gold standard so I I really am excited to to just go see the different vibe.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm I'm excited to hopefully see that all of the work that we've put in to make this a different environment a different expo uh you know in the excitement I I I I'm hoping we feel that I hope everybody makes a comment of oh yeah you know I can tell this this was different.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um that that's when we know there's this some success and and we can continue to build on that success.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because like I said, I mean we've done a lot to try and you know rev it up and and make it um a something new this year but there's also a future plan and we're gonna add to that every single year of of how we make this new um but I I'm excited because I think it's all starts from the core.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: We can't expect or ask customers to bring in intermodal as a a stable piece of their you know um network if we're not excited about it.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so so it starts with us.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so we need to be excited about it and we can't be excited about something if it's not a good solution.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: So we got to all come together and make sure we have this good solution so that way we can carry this forward.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: So it just all kind of starts from the core and builds out.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what I'm excited about on this expo is all the work we've done to try and and start with that.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: I want to see that and and go with it.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that there's just certain pieces of this um event that are a bit different from years past that will help that.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: As uh Anne was saying and you've said uh a number of times this is kind of uh a moment for intermodal and and it's it's time to take advantage of that momentum and and just keep pushing it forward.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: It is it is well again thank you for uh Ann for joining us again to uh to talk about expo and intermodal and the industry in uh general uh again we'll have links in the description to uh find more about expo and IANA and all of that as well and uh also again we will be there so uh look forward to a bunch of podcasts from there we've already got a pretty stacked up schedule for our uh recording window there so we're happy to share a bunch of people uh movers and shakers in the industry that will be joining us we're trying to represent uh you know a bunch of these different areas that absolutely that you were talking about here as well so uh excited to uh be a part of that for the second straight year and we are always excited to have you be a part of our podcast as well please do rate and review us subscribe follow wherever you get the intermodal logistics podcast drop us a comment and if you need to email us feel free to do so at podcast at intechlogistics.com visit intechlogistics dot com for more about the company and for Shelley Austin.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Kevin Baxter thanks again for joining us and we'll be back soon with another episode