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“Send your calculators to Manchester.” · Pod Save America

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:22
  Speaker 4: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: On today's pod, I talk to Bernie Sanders' campaign manager,
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Fad Shakir. But first, we'll recap the Democratic debate that
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: took place on Friday, the state of play one day
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: before the New Hampshire primary, and what Donald Trump's team
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: sees as their biggest vulnerabilities in this campaign. But first, Lovett,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: how was the show this weekend?
• 0:41
  Speaker 5: We had a fantastic Love It or Leave It. Emily
• 0:44
  Speaker 5: Heller came by to run through the debate's We quizzed
• 0:47
  Speaker 5: Louis Vertel on his Oscars trivia, and he is a
• 0:50
  Speaker 5: real savant. And Franklin Leonard came by to talk about
• 0:52
  Speaker 5: how Hollywood has been changing, and it was a great
• 0:57
  Speaker 5: show after a shit week.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Fantastic. Fantastic. I'm halfway through it. I was listening to it.
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: Oh, wow. Yeah.
• 1:02
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: It's very good.
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Where'd you give up? Good monologue. Now you know.
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: Glass half empty kind of guy.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: I got to work. It's a 15-minute commute. What can
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: I say? One last scheduling note. All four of us
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: will be doing a post-primary pod on Wednesday, which will
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: take the place of our usual Thursday pod this week.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: So be on the lookout for that on Wednesday afternoon.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Hopefully this time we have some results to talk about.
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I literally can't believe New Hampshire is tomorrow.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: All right. Let's talk about some news on Friday night.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: ABC News hosted the eighth debate in the Democratic presidential
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: primary at St. Anselm College in Manchester, New Hampshire. Seven
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: candidates took the stage. Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar, Tom Steyer, and Andrew Yang. This
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: is the first time we had a debate just a
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: few days away from actual voting. And with so many
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: undecided or uncertain voters in New Hampshire, this one could
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: have a real impact. Bernie Sanders entered this debate as
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: the New Hampshire frontrunner. He faced questioning and criticism over
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: his identification as a democratic socialist, the cost of his plans,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: and his ability to get things done. Here's a clip
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: of Bernie defending his political approach.
• 2:13
  Speaker 6: I must confess, I don't get too many newspaper editorial support.
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: Must confess that.
• 2:18
  Speaker 7: What do you mean you got the Conway endorsement?
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: I did. We're very proud of that. There we go.
• 2:22
  Speaker 6: But let me just say this. I think the question
• 2:25
  Speaker 6: started off with Secretary Clinton's critique. I think, quite honestly.
• 2:30
  Speaker 6: As we face one of the great political crises facing America,
• 2:35
  Speaker 6: our job is to look forward and not back to 2016.
• 2:39
  Speaker 6: And I hope that Secretary Clinton and all of us
• 2:43
  Speaker 6: can come together and move in that direction. Now, second
• 2:47
  Speaker 6: of all, in terms of Republicans, let me say that
• 2:50
  Speaker 6: in my own great state of Vermont, if my memory
• 2:53
  Speaker 6: is correct, Amy, I got 25% of the Republican vote.
• 3:00
  Speaker 6: And in fact, there were periods when I was in
• 3:03
  Speaker 6: the House of Representatives, a number of years, where I
• 3:06
  Speaker 6: passed more amendments on the floor of the House in
• 3:11
  Speaker 6: a bipartisan way than any other member of the House.
• 3:16
  Speaker 6: And that is when you bring people together on an issue.
• 3:21
  Speaker 6: There are many conservative Republicans, for example, who are concerned
• 3:24
  Speaker 6: about civil liberties. At least they used to be concerned
• 3:27
  Speaker 6: about civil liberties. There are Republicans, as you know, who
• 3:31
  Speaker 6: are concerned about the high cost of prescription drugs. There
• 3:35
  Speaker 6: are ways that we can work with Republicans on issues
• 3:40
  Speaker 6: where we have a common basis.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Guys, how would you describe Bernie's overall strategy at the
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: debate and how well do you think he executed on that?
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: I thought he came in deciding he was going to
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: be bigger. He was just going to whatever punch came
• 3:57
  Speaker 5: his way. He was going to go bigger. Hillary Clinton
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: attacked me. Let's look forward. You think that I can't win? Well,
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: here's the issues I believe we'll win on. And, you know,
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: you had Pete and you had Bernie and you had Biden,
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: all of whom had this, I think, obligation to behave
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: as the front runner on the stage, to demonstrate their
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: bigness and their leadership and their ability to bring the
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: party together. And I thought, honestly, I thought Bernie just
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: really did an exceptional job of actually doing that.
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: I think an important thing to know when you're evaluating
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: how these guys operate in Iowa versus New Hampshire is
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: that Iowa is a caucus that's supposed to run with
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: only Democrats and a very active small selection of Democrats
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: at that. In New Hampshire, if you're undeclared or you're
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: an independent, you can vote in New Hampshire primary. So
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: in 2016, Bernie romped with independent voters. He had 73%
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: of independent voters. So I think what you just heard
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: from him was a much bigger, like Lovett said, attempt
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: to talk about a political philosophy that was more inclusive
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: in an effort to potentially reach those people.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if you spend a lot of time online,
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: which unfortunately we do, you will see some Bernie supporters
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: seem like their chief goal is to defeat the Democratic establishment.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: And Bernie does not seem like that at all. Did
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: not seem like that on that debate stage at all.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Did not seem like that when we saw him speak
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: in Iowa. We went to his event. He looks like
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: it's more important to him to defeat Donald Trump and
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: that he wants to bring the party together. I also
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: think this is out of necessity, not just from what
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Tommy said about New Hampshire and the way they vote,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: but each one of these candidates, in order to be
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: the nominee, it is clear, has to expand their current coalition.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: None of them have captured sort of the wide array
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: of Democratic voters or even independents and a few Republicans
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: that are going to be necessary to both win the
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: nomination and defeat Donald Trump in November. And so if
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: you hope to lead the party and you hope to
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: beat Donald Trump, you necessarily have to start appealing to
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: people who haven't been with you in the past. People
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: who have watched Bernie Sanders in Congress for a long
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: time know that he is far more pragmatic than you
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: might perceive from the coverage of Bernie Sanders, the revolutionary.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: And part of that's by Bernie's own design. He talks
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: about political revolution. But what was the hard part about
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: getting the Affordable Care Act passed? It wasn't fucking Bernie
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Sanders' vote, even though he's for Medicare for all. He
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: told Barack Obama, I'm on board with the ACA. You
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: can count on my vote. It was fucking Joe Lieberman
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: and all the conservative Democrats, you know? So he does
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: have this pragmatic, streak in him from being in Congress
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: all this time. And I wonder if he'll emphasize that
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: more as we go on.
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: He also did it later in the debate where he
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: talked about how he'd gotten the most amendments passed of
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: anybody on that stage, which is the kind of thing
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: you would normally mock a U.S. senator for saying at
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: a presidential debate because it is so Senate-ese and it
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: is so in the weeds. But I think he's just
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: trying to speak to an ability to work with people
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: who are not necessarily his natural political allies and get
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: things done.
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: I also just think because so much of the primary
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: debate is around ideological maneuvering. One of the things, and
• 7:12
  Speaker 5: the fact that I think a lot of the focus
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: on Bernie in 2016 was the parts of being president
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: he didn't talk about as much, whether it was foreign
• 7:19
  Speaker 5: policy or criminal justice reform or the parts that he
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: kind of has fleshed out more in the last few years.
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: One of the things I was struck by just watching
• 7:25
  Speaker 5: him on that debate stage is how good he is
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: now as a candidate, just how strong and effective he
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: is at responding to questions, putting in.
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: A a really, really good debater. I think he's good,
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: but everyone else sucks at attacking him. No one has
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: come close to figuring out. They're all pounding Mayor Pete,
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: but they're not touching Bernie.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: Except for Biden tried a little bit.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Well, I was going to say.
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: Not the most deft debater so far.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: In that one moment, I thought Biden did his best
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: job at attacking Medicare for all that he's done in
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: any of these debates. And he really hit the cost.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: But Bernie is very deft at pivoting away from, oh,
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: you're going to raise taxes on middle class families and
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: just saying, well, this is what we spend on health
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: care right now. Other countries can figure this out. Why
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: can't we? Why are we spending two times more than
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: all these other countries? And there's just no follow up
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: from the other candidates. Then after Bernie, you know, he
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: he basically dodges the question and no one follows up
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: and says, well, what are you going to do about
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: middle class tax increases? And they just let him go.
• 8:23
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: So, which is, you know, which is their, that's their,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: that's their issue.
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: And only Klobuchar, uh, was willing to immediately raise her
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: hand when asked if people thought that being a democratic
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: socialist would be a political problem.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: It's like, Hey guys, you're all running against him.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: He's kicking your ass at the moment. Like I'm not
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: taking a side here, but if you want to win
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: this thing, you should consider going after the guy who's winning. Right.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Um, and we want to do this for all the candidates, but, uh,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: 538 and Ipsos polled, uh, 1,850 likely Democratic primary voters
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: before and after the debate, the same voters. Bernie received
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: the highest marks of any candidate for his debate performance.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: His favorability rating went up, and the share of people
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: considering voting for him went up 2.5 points to 45.5%.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about Pete Buttigieg, who probably took most of
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: the criticism at the debate from his fellow candidates on
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: his lack of experience, on his lack of support among
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: voters of color, and on his record as mayor of
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: South Bend, particularly around policing and criminal justice. Here's an
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: exchange between Pete and Joe Biden over what kind of
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: experience is relevant in this race.
• 9:25
  Speaker 9: And as to experience, I just bring a different perspective. Look,
• 9:28
  Speaker 9: I freely admit that if you're looking for the person
• 9:32
  Speaker 9: with the most years of Washington establishment experience under their belt,
• 9:36
  Speaker 9: you've got your candidate.
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: And of course, it's not me.
• 9:39
  Speaker 9: The perspective I'm bringing is that of somebody whose life
• 9:42
  Speaker 9: has been shaped by by the decisions that are made
• 9:44
  Speaker 9: in those big white buildings in Washington, D.C. Somebody who
• 9:47
  Speaker 9: has guided a community written off as dying just a
• 9:51
  Speaker 9: decade ago through a historic transformation. Somebody who knows what
• 9:55
  Speaker 9: it means to be sent to war on orders that
• 9:57
  Speaker 9: come out of the Situation Room. We need a perspective
• 10:00
  Speaker 9: right now that will finally allow us to leave the
• 10:02
  Speaker 9: politics of the past in the past, turn the page,
• 10:06
  Speaker 9: and bring change to Washington before it's too late.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: Vice President Biden, there's his answer.
• 10:11
  Speaker 10: The politics of the past, I think, were not all
• 10:13
  Speaker 10: that bad. I wrote the Violence Against Women Act. I
• 10:16
  Speaker 10: managed the $ 900 billion Recovery Act, which, in fact, put
• 10:20
  Speaker 10: millions and millions of dollars into his city before he
• 10:23
  Speaker 10: came and helped.
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: Save his city.
• 10:25
  Speaker 10: I was able to do it. I was able to
• 10:26
  Speaker 10: pass the chemical weapons ban. arms control, and I was
• 10:30
  Speaker 10: the first major leader holding public office to call for
• 10:33
  Speaker 10: same-sex marriage. So I don't know what about the past
• 10:37
  Speaker 10: of Barack Obama and Joe Biden was so bad.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: What happened?
• 10:41
  Speaker 10: What is it that he wants to.
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: Do away with? We were just beginning.
• 10:45
  Speaker 10: It was just the beginning of what will be the
• 10:47
  Speaker 10: future of moving this country beyond where it is now
• 10:50
  Speaker 10: in significant ways. And there's ways to do that. And
• 10:53
  Speaker 10: one of the ways to do that is to make
• 10:55
  Speaker 10: sure you have someone who knows how to get things
• 10:57
  Speaker 10: done and can lead the free world at the same time.
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: Mayor Buttigieg respond, then Senator Sanders.
• 11:05
  Speaker 9: Those achievements were phenomenally important because they met the moment.
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: But now we have to meet this moment.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: And this moment is different.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Um so i thought that the way that pete handled
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: biden's rejoinder and you know i think biden probably ended
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: in a stronger place than he began um because i
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: think saying i don't know what's so bad about the
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: politics of the past might not be the most effective
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: line but i thought that the way that pete handled
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: the obama years meaning those you know accomplishments were important
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: then but now is a different moment was probably the
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: best way he or anyone has handled the obama years
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: um that I've seen in this primary or even in 2016.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: But what did you guys think about sort of Pete's
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: performance and how he handled all the criticism?
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: Pete's a very good debater consistently. I rarely feel like
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: there's a question that he's not prepared for. The one
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: exception in this debate, I think, was the question about
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: his record on policing and race and stuff. And I
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: thought he had a hard time with that. But like
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: Biden is trying to make Pete's critique an attack on
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: Barack Obama. And I think that could be an effective
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: strategy But it's also sort of laden with this frustration
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: that Biden has about his full 30-plus year record and
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: feeling like he's being criticized by Pete without any appreciation
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: for how hard it was to do things in a
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: different era with a lack of political support. That said,
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: the quote, the politics of the past were not all
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: that bad, really made me cringe. Because for a lot
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: of people, they were pretty bad. And I think you
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: can say the Obama administration... was pretty good. We did
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: a lot of important things, uh, you know, with the,
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: with the difficult Congress to work with for most of
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: that time. But I don't know. I, I'm not sure
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: that Biden won that exchange personally.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: I just don't, I've just never seen anyone be defensive
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: on behalf of the past before, like the past.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Like I have, um, I believe it was the 2008 primary.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: There was one candidate who was a little.
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: Change is a better message.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Those are the vibes that I get every time I
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: see the hits on the Buttigieg experience stuff. We saw
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: it in 2008 as a gift every time Hillary Clinton
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: went after Barack Obama's thin record at that point. Didn't
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: have a lot of experience in Washington or even in
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: legislative experience. But every time we turn that around on
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton and said, well, people are sick of politics
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: and usual as Washington. The only difference is we now
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: have an incredibly inexperienced president in the White House who
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: we're trying to beat. And I do wonder if I
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: and I don't know if this is true or not,
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: but I wonder how much experience is valued or not
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: valued now versus back in 2008.
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: This moment, I think, captures for me, I think, what
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: makes these debates interesting. so, like, enervating. Like, you, at
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: the end of it, you're just sort of a little
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: bit sad and a little bit tired because I don't
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: know which argument is more successful, ready on day one
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: to be the leader of the free world or I
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: have experience outside of Washington, but they're both fake arguments, right?
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: They're not the real arguments for these candidates. Like, it
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: reminds me, actually, of when Republicans would say, oh, well,
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: if Sarah Palin's not ready, why is Barack Obama ready?
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: You know, she was a statewide leader for two years.
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: He was a statewide leader for two years.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: Well, because.
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: He's got the temperament, the intellectual curiosity, the willingness to learn,
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: the judgment, the sense of leadership. He's really fucking smart.
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: He has a set of ineffable qualities that matter a
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: great deal, that are hard to describe and hard to
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: be objective about. Mayor Pete is a very, very smart person.
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: He does have experience in the heartland, but the campaign
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: he's building does not look dissimilar to the one that
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: Hillary Clinton could have built, that any mainstream Democratic politician
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: who spent 30 years in Washington could have built. it's
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: a rhetorical argument. I, my experience outside of Washington, you
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: have it inside of Washington.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know that that's entirely true.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: At least when I think, when I think back to
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: the Obama campaign, right? Like Barack Obama emphasized not just
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: his experience and the type of experience he had, but
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: his judgment.
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: And I think that's where he had a leg up
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: on most other people as he was correct on the
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Iraq war.
• 15:20
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: And so that, that people saw his judgment as a
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: substitute for maybe longevity in Washington. But There were times
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: where Barack Obama did things as president where I thought
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: to myself, if he had been in Washington for 30 years,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: he would not have made that decision because he has
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: more political courage from not being in Washington for that long.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Like when it looked like the Affordable Care Act would
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: fail and a lot of his advisors who had been
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: in Washington for years and years and years told him
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: to pull the bill and just do nothing because he
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: wouldn't get reelected. He said, I don't care if I'm reelected.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to push this. That comes from not
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: spending your whole life in Washington, that kind of political courage.
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: Yes, sure.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: I think that's a place where.
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: His instincts as a politician and person align with having
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: been outside of the system.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: That's very true.
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: You look at someone like Bernie Sanders, who has been
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: in Washington for a very, very long time, and he
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: has the same- He.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Would show that same kind of political character.
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: All that's a way of saying, I think this debate
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: is very frustrating because it's a bunch of rhetorical back
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: and forths, while the actual real question of who would
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: be a better president, who would do a better job
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: in the situation room is basically unexamined.
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: I think the rhetorical debate sort of is the debate, right?
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: I mean, since day one, Joe Biden's been saying, I'm
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: going to restore the soul of this nation. Pete said
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: it's time to turn the page and it's time for
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: generational change. Who decides when you're ready to be president? Well,
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: like enough voters vote for you. And that's the only
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: way to decide. No one's really ready. Even if you're
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: vice president, that is clearly the best preparation to be
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: president of the United States because you've seen the job
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: up close. But who knows? It's up to the voters.
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: I did think that there was, that was contentious, but
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: there was a very powerful moment, I thought, when The
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: moderators tried to bait Mayor Pete into attacking Biden and
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: saying that he was somehow hamstrung because of the investigation
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: into him and Hunter Biden. And Pete powerfully defended him
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: from Trump's attacks on his son and looked the most
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: angry I've ever seen him.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Real emotion.
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: He seemed like viscerally angry at the idea of Trump
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: trying to divide a father and son. And I appreciated
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: that moment because it felt real.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Going back to a point you made, Tommy, like it's
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: interesting again with Pete. just like it was with Bernie,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: like none of the other candidates, the hits that the
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: other candidates leveled at Pete were not, I thought, as
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: effective as that moderator question about racial disparities in South
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Bend that he had the most trouble answering. And I
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: actually think, I think the bigger trouble for Pete is
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: not so much this experience question, because I think he
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: can parry that well. It's for the Democratic Party, of which,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: you know, black voters are the core constituency of the party.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: And also everyone's worried about electability, like thinking, can he
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: build any support whatsoever within the black community? And he
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: hasn't been able to yet. And then he has things
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: in his record that give people concern about that. And
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: I don't. And, you know, the moderator pointed that out
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: and a couple of people on stage pointed that out.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: They have since in New Hampshire. And I wonder if
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: that's going to be one of the biggest challenges for him,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: even more so than his experience challenge. Yeah.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: I mean, the story of this debate might be the the.
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: attacks not made, right? Because Bernie was also pressed on
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: his past support of pro-gun laws. And he, I thought,
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: answered it very well where he said, the world has
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: changed and my views have changed. But no one really
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: dug in on that. And you'd think that would be
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: one area where you might be able to make up
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: some ground. And similarly, Warren took a glancing shot at
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: Bernie and really everyone on the stage but Amy Klobuchar
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: by saying she doesn't have a PAC or an outside
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: group supporting her. But she didn't say Bernie You're saying you're,
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: you know, you're more pure than us, but you have
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: this Our Revolution group that's running ads for you. Nobody
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: dug into that. So it just, you know, it surprised
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: me that there were some whiffs.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: And also, so in that 538 poll, voters said Pete
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: tied for second with Klobuchar in debate performance. He picked
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: up nearly six points in potential support, which is more
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: than any other candidate. Let's talk about Amy Klobuchar, who
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: had a fantastic debate. She once again made a very
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: strong case for her brand of pragmatic politics and the
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: kind of experience she brings to the race. which he
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: talks about in this clip in response to that Pete
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: answer that we just heard.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: I am listening to this.
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: About meeting the moment.
• 19:24
  Speaker 7: And my first thought is, I'm a fresh face up
• 19:27
  Speaker 7: here for a presidential debate. And I figure, Pete, that 59,
• 19:32
  Speaker 7: my age, is the new 38 up here. The second
• 19:36
  Speaker 7: thing I think about is this.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: And that is, OK, there you go. Meeting the moment,
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: meeting the moment.
• 19:43
  Speaker 7: We had a moment the last few weeks, Mayor. And
• 19:45
  Speaker 7: that moment was these impeachment hearings.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: And there was a lot of courage. that you saw
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: from only a few people.
• 19:52
  Speaker 7: There was courage from Doug Jones, our friend of Alabama,
• 19:55
  Speaker 7: who took that tough vote. There was courage from Mitt Romney,
• 20:01
  Speaker 7: who took a very, very difficult vote. There was courage,
• 20:06
  Speaker 7: as I read today, about Lieutenant Colonel Vindman being escorted
• 20:10
  Speaker 7: out of the White House.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: What he did took courage.
• 20:12
  Speaker 7: But what you said, Pete, as you were campaigning through Iowa,
• 20:16
  Speaker 7: as three of us were jurors in that impeachment hearing,
• 20:19
  Speaker 7: you said it was exhausting to watch and that you
• 20:21
  Speaker 7: wanted to turn the channel and watch cartoons. It is
• 20:26
  Speaker 7: easy to go after Washington, because that's a popular thing
• 20:29
  Speaker 7: to do. It is much harder, as I see Senator
• 20:32
  Speaker 7: Shaheen in the front.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: Row, such a leader.
• 20:35
  Speaker 7: It is much harder to lead and much harder to
• 20:38
  Speaker 7: take those difficult positions. Because I think this going after
• 20:42
  Speaker 7: every single thing that people do, because it's popular to
• 20:46
  Speaker 7: say and makes you look like a cool newcomer, I
• 20:49
  Speaker 7: don't think that's what people want right now. We have
• 20:52
  Speaker 7: a newcomer in the White House, and look where it
• 20:54
  Speaker 7: got us. I think having some experience is a good thing.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: I have to say, you know, there's very few political
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: consultants that would tell you that the way to go
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: is to defend Washington experience. But I thought it was
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: and maybe this is just we've served and we've been
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: in Washington as staffers.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: But like I found it very persuasive. I found it
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: real and authentic. Like she, she was genuinely upset about this.
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: Let's Neo show. We're Neo Lib Shills. Let's Neo Lib
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: Shill out here. No, but I agree completely.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: The political strategist in me was like, are she crazy?
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: She's defending Washington experience. But then I listened to it.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, yeah, I get it.
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: It actually reminded me there was a, I worked for
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: Hillary Clinton in 2008, as you know, and there was
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: a critique that always really stuck with me that really, that,
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: that if there were things that, you know, you're inside
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: of a campaign and you're, You're in it. And what
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: really frustrated me the most in the 2008 primary is,
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: for me, I watched Barack Obama take on Washington as
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: the problem. And it was a totally valid critique, and
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: I see why it's popular, but I would always think
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: the problem isn't Washington.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: The problem is Republicanism.
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Democrats are terrible on a whole bunch of things,
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: but if we have a crisis in this country, it's
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: about Republicanism. And that's only grown more true in the
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: years since. I mean, they've moved even further to right
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: and become you know, a toxic drag on the country,
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: if not the planet. But Amy Klobuchar is there saying, hey,
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: you know, you're going after Washington because it's easy, because
• 22:22
  Speaker 5: it's popular. We have a crisis in our institutions. People
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: don't trust our institutions. They don't trust our political system.
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: They don't trust anything, really, except the military, maybe a
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: few other, you know, bastions of trust. And it is,
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: I think, a little bit refreshing to see someone, despite
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: the obvious political implications, say, hold on a second. This
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: is more nuanced than that. There are people in Washington really,
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: really trying and doing hard things. And to ignore that
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: because it's a quick soundbite and it's part of the
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: message of your campaign about the heartland, and because it
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: seems so authentic, I just really appreciated it.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: It is very clear that Amy Klobuchar has no time
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: for Mayor Pete and genuinely dislikes him. She seems to
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: drill his lack of experience at every pass. I, too,
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: was surprised to hear such a passionate defense of Washington.
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: But the line, we have a newcomer in the White
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: House and look what it got us, And you could
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: see that working with some people. Now, you know, love it.
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: I think like the Bernie critique of the defense of
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: Washington would be, yes, it's mostly a Republican problem, but
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: this crop of Democrats have been a problem too, right?
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: They voted for the Iraq war. You voted for the
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: Afghanistan war. We go way back to Vietnam when, you know,
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: Democrats escalated that war. I'm being a dork on foreign
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: policy because I'm reading a book on Nixon, but that's
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: where we are. But I mean, I thought Klobuchar in
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: this debate, you know, people online like to make fun
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: of pundits for saying she did well, but there was
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: a moment where she got a hostile question about some
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: of her tough on crime policies. And she pivoted to
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: an answer where she gave specific ways that she would
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: pay for opioid treatments, including by wringing money out of
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: these horrible organizations that peddle them to people. And then
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: she folded that into a broader narrative of like common
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: sense policies and honesty and telling the listeners like how
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: she would actually do things. And it was a very,
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: very impressive debate forum. She has sort of captured this
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: give me a break, moderate, middle ground, common sense vibe
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: that you often hear at debates better than I think
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: anybody else.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: Well, and so here's my question about Klobuchar long term.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: So in that poll, in the 538 poll, she had
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: the second best performance tied with Pete. Her favorability goes up.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Her potential support goes up three points. But it goes
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: from 13% to 16% of voters who are now considering
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: voting for her And this to me is sort of
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: indicative of her larger challenge, right? She's gaining in the polls,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: especially in New Hampshire. She raised $ 2 million right after
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: the debate. She's getting big crowds in New Hampshire now.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: If it gets her from a fifth place finish in
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Iowa to fourth or even to third in New Hampshire,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: which is possible, then I guess what is her, what
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: is her path from there, right? Like she does, she
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: then is bunched up with, and we'll talk about this one,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I guess more when we get to New Hampshire, but Klobuchar, Biden, Buttigieg,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Bloomberg sort of lurking out there, all of these moderates,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: they're not really, you know, moderate progressive center-left candidates who
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: are just sort of bunched up there and like, how
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: does one of them break out? How does Klobuchar break out?
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: Or how does the dynamic change fast enough?
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: I can see this process changing over the next few weeks,
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: but the voting's here, it's happening.
• 25:28
  Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: And so, okay, Amy Klobuchar slowly climbs to the front
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: of the pack while, well, what if that happens later?
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: you know, it's in process on Super Tuesday. It's happening
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: after what have you. Like, everyone is so focused on narratives.
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: You know, Biden's dropped and he's, oh, he could be
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: in fifth in New Hampshire. And like, obviously it is
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: not good for Joe Biden to be in fifth in
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: New Hampshire. That's not good for your campaign. You don't
• 25:48
  Speaker 5: have to pay for that analysis. No, but like political
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: coverage of the primary treats it like a narrative problem,
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: but it's a math problem. And the question isn't what
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: happens if Joe Biden finishes in fifth. The question is,
• 25:59
  Speaker 5: Will his support stay with him in a state like
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: South Carolina, even if that happens? And nobody knows the
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: answer to that.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: Nobody.
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: So I look at this and I think, I don't
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: know how it's possible for someone like Amy Klobuchar to
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: pass two candidates in time and do so while not
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: dividing all of those delegates.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: And also, we've talked for many months in the race
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: about Pete Buttigieg not having adequate support among voters of color.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Amy Klobuchar is right down there with them. She does
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: not have any more.
• 26:25
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: I mean, in her defense, I bet most voters don't
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: know who she is outside of the early states.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: More so than Pete, yeah.
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: All of these candidates that aren't named Bernie Sanders have
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: a game theory problem where Bernie has a very hard
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: core base that has not left him and doesn't seem
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: like it's going to. And all of them are splitting
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: the leftover voters in various percentages. I think that Klobuchar,
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: if she is a surprise second or third in New Hampshire...
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: then needs to get to Nevada and South Carolina and
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: formulate a message. It's basically Biden had his chance. We're
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: moving on from him. Yeah. Because, you know, look to
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: your point, love it. Like super Tuesday is coming up
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: on March 3rd. It's 15 jurisdictions. If you count like
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: Americans abroad and everything, and that's a third of the
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: pledge delegates, they need to make huge progress that day
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: to actually make progress towards winning the nomination. I mean,
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: the good news is, for all of these folks is
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: that like only 4% of total pledged delegates are up
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: for grabs in the first four states. So like that
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: part of the race has not even really started. This
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: is all momentum thing. And she's, you know, arguably gaining
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: momentum at exactly the right time.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about Elizabeth Warren, who was very on message,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: wasn't allowed as much speaking time by the moderators and
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: didn't really go after her rivals except somewhat obliquely during
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: this exchange about money and politics that Tommy referenced earlier.
• 27:44
  Speaker 8: Look, I don't think anyone ought to be able to
• 27:46
  Speaker 8: buy their way into a nomination or to be president
• 27:50
  Speaker 8: of the United States. I don't think any billionaire ought
• 27:56
  Speaker 8: to be able to do it, and I don't think
• 27:57
  Speaker 8: people who suck up to billionaires in order to fund
• 28:00
  Speaker 8: their campaigns ought to do it. I heard everyone here
• 28:04
  Speaker 8: talking about, as Democrats, we all want to overturn Citizens
• 28:08
  Speaker 8: United because we want to end this unlimited spending. Yeah,
• 28:14
  Speaker 8: except everyone on this stage, except Amy and me, is
• 28:19
  Speaker 8: either a billionaire or is receiving help from PACs that
• 28:23
  Speaker 8: can do unlimited spending. So if you really want... to
• 28:29
  Speaker 8: live where you say, then put your money where your
• 28:32
  Speaker 8: mouth is and say no to the PACs. Look, I
• 28:35
  Speaker 8: think the way we build a democracy going forward is
• 28:38
  Speaker 8: not billionaires reaching in their own pockets or people sucking
• 28:41
  Speaker 8: up to billionaires. The way we build it going forward
• 28:45
  Speaker 8: is we have a grassroots movement funded from the grassroots up.
• 28:50
  Speaker 8: That's the way I'm running this campaign. If you think
• 28:53
  Speaker 8: it's the right way to run a campaign, go to ElizabethWarren.com
• 28:57
  Speaker 8: and pitch in five bucks. Because understand this, our democracy
• 29:03
  Speaker 8: hangs in the balance. If we have to fund through billionaires,
• 29:08
  Speaker 8: then we're just going to be an American. It's going
• 29:10
  Speaker 8: to work better and better for billionaires.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: And not for anyone else.
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: Tom Steyer is like, I did not spend $ 40 million
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: to be insulted.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: I am a customer.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: His Disney experience.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, my Disney.
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: This was not the Disney VIP experience I was promised, ABC.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: So, you know, it was a hint of a shot
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: at Bernie there because of Our Revolution, which is an
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: outside group that functions, you know, effectively as a pack
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: for him. though they would say it's not about spending
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: a lot on ads they're doing voter registration stuff but
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: still that's the structure of it um what what did
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: you guys think of that because i think it is
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: also indicative of her larger strategy in the debate which
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: was she just she didn't want to take Sort of
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: direct shots at any of her rivals. She wanted to
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: stick with the message that she is the unity candidate.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: She stuck with her corruption message like she was. She
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: is the most message disciplined candidate of all.
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: But I don't know.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Was that is that enough now?
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: Probably not. I mean, look, first of all. I don't
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: get all these people criticizing Warren for not getting very
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: many questions from the moderators. I found that so annoying.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: I didn't even see that. Who's criticizing him?
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: That's crazy. A lot of people in the post-debate coverage.
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: I mean, yes, your job is to jump in, but
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: also their job is to spread out the questions evenly.
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: I don't think it was a very well-moderated debate in
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: a lot of different ways, but that's a different conversation.
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think this answer speaks to the challenge
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: Warren has had for a while, right? Because she tried
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: the wine cave hit on Pete. where she drilled him
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: for raising money from billionaires and that backfired. And frankly,
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: at the time, I thought it was probably a pretty
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: strong hit, but it didn't seem to work. So she
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: walked it back there. Then she obliquely mentions Bernie Sanders,
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: a group that's helping him, an outside group, but didn't
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: really go after him there because it's not entirely clear
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: to me that the voters that they both are targeting
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: care that much about outside spending or money. And so
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: it's just sort of an answer that's kind of for
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: no one. Like it speaks to her core anti-corruption message,
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: and I thought she did that well a number of times.
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: Her argument she made about the NRA and the lack
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: of gun legislation, how that's because the NRA has bought
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: off a lot of candidates, et cetera, was a very
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: compelling point. But I don't know that any of it
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: distinguished her or led me to believe that she was
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: going to break out.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think the challenge with the unity
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: candidate message is that the flip side is she's getting
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: squeezed by both sides, right? So there are a lot
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: of Warren voters who or people who, and we met
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: a lot of them in Iowa, people who were deciding
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: between Warren and a Pete Buttigieg, or Warren and an
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Amy Klobuchar, even though we have these ideological lanes, right?
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Actual voters don't necessarily see it that way. And then
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: on the other side, she has lost a lot of
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: her support over the last several months to Bernie Sanders.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: And in order to be the unity candidate, you have
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: to make a case that the candidate to your left
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: and the candidates to your right cannot win. And that's
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: why you must be the unity candidate. You can't just
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: do it by like, hey, I'm here. And can't you
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: just see that? Because other candidates have tried this. Kamala
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Harris tried to sort of be a unity candidate. Cory
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Booker tried to be a unity candidate. And unless you
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: make the case that what the party needs is a
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: unity candidate, because if we go with Bernie, we're going
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: to lose. Or if we go with Amy Klobuchar and Pete,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: we're going to lose. Then you know, then people won't
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: understand that message.
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't believe anybody watching this debate would know
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: they were watching someone make a case for a unity candidate.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: I don't think anyone would have any idea. You have
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: to be really in the weeds on that.
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: Also, just her debate performance was very good, and it
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: looked a lot like her previous debate performances. It looked
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: like every single one. She's incredibly disciplined, and she has
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: her message, and she's delivering it. But if she's going
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: to become the Democratic nominee, she has to change something,
• 32:57
  Speaker 5: and she has to deliver something different in these debates.
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: I don't know if that involves being really explicit, like
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: just really coming out and saying it, which is that
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: I don't think Bernie can bring this party together. He's
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: alienated too much of the center left. And I don't
• 33:08
  Speaker 5: believe Amy Klobuchar can bring this party together because there's
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: a core of young people who really want something more progressive.
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: I'm the only one that can bring this whole party together.
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: There, I said it.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: Does she explode if she says that? I don't know.
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: I don't know what happens.
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: But it is, you know, the wine cave thing was
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: the last time she really went on offense in the debates.
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: And I did at the time think it worked, although
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: my- I.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Mean, it may have worked in hurting Pete a little bit.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it helped her.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: Well, the thing I remember most of that is that
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: they went back and forth a couple times. They were
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: the two, they were really smart interlocutors, really going at
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: each other. And then Amy Klobuchar came in and seemed
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: bigger than the both of them. And then, you know,
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: she obviously directed her fucking Death Star at Pete because
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: that's the only planet she wants to blow up. But nonetheless,
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: I don't think it ultimately made her look a little
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: bit small that time.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: So I don't know what to say.
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: I have to say, to Pete's credit, he does not
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: get enough credit for being the only one on the
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: stage who's consistently shot out by like four or five candidates.
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: Like Steyer tries to belittle him at every pass. Klobuchar
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: goes after him. Warren hit him here. Bernie kind of
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: just like grunts at him from time to time.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: It's... There's very little downside to hitting the candidate that
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: the internet doesn't like.
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: That's true.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: It's what people... It's what you sort of realize in
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: these debates.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: I also.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Forget about what actual voters think, but the people... If
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: you're not popular with the people on the internet, you
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: can get shots taken at you in a debate like this,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: and you are just fine.
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: That's also true.
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: I also do think that there's the internet, then there's
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: Democratic voters, and then there's the candidates... I don't think
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: there's anything on which the internet and these seven people
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: on that stage agree on more than on not liking Pete.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Right, no, definitely.
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: I mean, Amy Klobuchar, there's somebody like Pete in her
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: life at some point that she remembers and she does
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: not like.
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: RT if you agree.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about Joe Biden, who was pretty
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: feisty and came out swinging against both Bernie on socialism
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: and Pete on experience and African-American support. He also kicked
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: off the night with a little expectation setting. Let's play
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: a clip.
• 35:11
  Speaker 10: This is a long race. I took a hit in Iowa,
• 35:14
  Speaker 10: and I'll probably take a hit here. Traditionally, Bernie won
• 35:16
  Speaker 10: by 20 points last time, and usually it's the neighboring
• 35:20
  Speaker 10: senators who do well. But no matter what, I'm still
• 35:24
  Speaker 10: in this for the same reason. We have to restore
• 35:28
  Speaker 10: the soul of this country, bring back the middle class,
• 35:30
  Speaker 10: and make sure we bring people together. And so it's
• 35:33
  Speaker 10: a simple proposition. It doesn't matter whether it's this one
• 35:36
  Speaker 10: or the next. I've always viewed the first four encounters,
• 35:39
  Speaker 10: two primaries and two caucuses, as the starting point.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: And then later in the night, Biden had a nice
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: moment when he praised Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman. Let's play
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: that clip.
• 35:49
  Speaker 10: One of the things that I think is really important
• 35:51
  Speaker 10: is we have to be authentic with the American people
• 35:53
  Speaker 10: about what we're going to do and how we're going
• 35:55
  Speaker 10: to do it. And by the way, Colonel Vindman got
• 35:57
  Speaker 10: thrown out of the White House.
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: They walked out.
• 36:00
  Speaker 10: I think we should. And at the same time, he
• 36:02
  Speaker 10: should be pinning a medal on Vindman and not on
• 36:05
  Speaker 10: Rush Limbaugh. And I think I think we should be
• 36:09
  Speaker 10: doing that.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: I think we should all.
• 36:11
  Speaker 10: Stand and give Colonel Vindman a show of how much
• 36:15
  Speaker 10: we supported him. Stand up and clap for Vindman.
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: Get up there.
• 36:18
  Speaker 10: Who we are.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: That's who we are.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: We are not what Trump is.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: So, you know, I did see a few stories that
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: some of Biden's New Hampshire supporters were disappointed that he
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: sort of acknowledged that he might lose tomorrow. Did you
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: think he needed to set expectations like that?
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: I would say leave it to your staff to do
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: the margin of victory expectation setting for the other candidates.
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: That's to me is a little inside baseball and probably
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: not where I would have gone. It's also probably pretty
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: demoralizing for your staff.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: It's also the first thing you're going to say.
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: I mean, it wouldn't be my opening salvo.
• 36:56
  Speaker 5: Into midway through his second answer, something clicked and he
• 37:00
  Speaker 5: remembered he was supposed to be high energy and his
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: energy changed for a while. But man, to come out
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: there and say, it's great to be here. I lost
• 37:07
  Speaker 5: in Iowa. I'm going to lose here too. And I
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: think that's fine.
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: And that's cool.
• 37:11
  Speaker 5: At a moment when I actually think Pete didn't do
• 37:14
  Speaker 5: that great a job in his first answer, but Bernie
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: did a really strong, big kind of emotional answer that
• 37:19
  Speaker 5: set the stakes of the election. And then you go
• 37:21
  Speaker 5: to Joe Biden and it's like, how is this the
• 37:23
  Speaker 5: first thing you're going to say?
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, you can tell that there's two things that
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: end up deciding these primaries. There's momentum and then there's demographics.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: And clearly Biden's team is looking at New Hampshire and
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: they're like, I know that we just lost badly in Iowa,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: but there's no fucking way we're going to win this state.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: And so we can't, if we make it this big
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: comeback hit narrative and then we fall short, it's going
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: to look worse. And if we just tell everyone really
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: clearly that we don't think we're going to win this
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: and then we're going to look towards Nevada and South
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: Carolina where there's more voters of color, both Latinos and
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: African-Americans in South Carolina. And the Biden people think that
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: the demographics will save them there. That's also in question, but.
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: That may be true. I just think it's very hard
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: to make when you're the former vice president with 100%
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: name ID.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: I also think like the Vindman thing, I think was
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: a smart attempt to manufacture a moment, but I just like,
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: don't know that many people knew what he was talking about,
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: even in the room. Now, like there, to your point,
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: love it about Biden's energy. There's like kind of, there's
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: sort of low energy Biden that you sometimes see. There's
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: also like kind of, yelly angry defending my record biden
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: and then the biden we all love was when you
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: know there was a question i think to amy klobuchar
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: about hillary clinton saying no one liked bernie you know
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: he he smelled bad he used to fart at his
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: desk all the time like whatever the quote was and
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: biden walked over and he put his arm around him
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: gave him a hug and like flashed that smile and
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: i was like oh that's joe biden that's great people love.
• 38:44
  Speaker 5: That meanwhile though hillary and biden worked that out because
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: while bernie was distracted she slashed his tires.
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: But the uh it was But, uh, the other, the
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: other piece about this too.
• 38:53
  Speaker 5: Is, you know, should he acknowledge that he's not gonna
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: do well in New Hampshire or not? A candidate with
• 38:57
  Speaker 5: more felicity in these debates could.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: Do it, right?
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: Say, you know, as asked a question about why he
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: underperformed in Iowa could say something like, yeah, you know,
• 39:05
  Speaker 5: did worse than I wanted. And I may not do
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: so great here, but I'm not in this, I'm in
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: this for the long haul. I'm in it for the
• 39:10
  Speaker 5: long haul for reasons X, Y, and Z, right? There's a,
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: there's a way to, there's a way to take on
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: that attack and acknowledge that you're about to come in fourth, uh,
• 39:19
  Speaker 5: to a, uh, a mayor from South Bend, Indiana.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: Which is not a neighboring state of New Hampshire. Which
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: is going to be his problem when he said, oh, well,
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: the neighboring state candidates always win. It's going to be
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: harder if Pete Buttigieg does well and comes in second
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: place or first, or if Amy Klobuchar passes him.
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, love it. I'm not sure why he'd
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: mention a 1998 drama from the WB, but look, point taken.
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: That's it. Here, here's what I say. Okay. Maybe do
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: your expectation setting in New Hampshire differently in an interview
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: with John DeSteso or some nerdy journalist. You don't have
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: to do it as the first thing you say on
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: the biggest debate stage. That's not your core message. I
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: would say, too, the most important debate of the campaign.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: And look, I thought he was better at this debate
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: than he's been, but I think at this point, better
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: is not good enough because he is in some serious
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: trouble and needs. Again, it's similar to what we were
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: talking about with Klobuchar, which is, at this point, Klobuchar, Pete,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: or Amy, and right now Pete's sort of in the
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: lead on this, needs to break out in such a
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: big way in the center-left part of this primary, or Warren,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: I guess, that it has to be clear that everyone
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: coalesces behind them. And to do that, you need a
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: big change, and you need to make that happen. And
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: I don't think Biden has done anything yet to make
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: that happen. So let's talk about where the race went
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: after the debate. We've had an avalanche of polling. 538
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: has the averages at 26.1% for Bernie Sanders, 21.1% for Pete, 12.8%
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: for Warren. 12.2% for Biden and 9.6% for Klobuchar. More
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: importantly than the actual numbers are the trends. Bernie has
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: been holding steady or rising slightly, depending on the poll.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Buttigieg got a big bump after Iowa that has now
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: looked like it receded a bit in a couple of
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: days after the debate. Warren is holding steady and Klobuchar
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: is gaining clearly and Biden is falling. So, but despite
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Sanders' lead, The back and forth over the weekend was
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: mostly between Biden and Pete, which started with this brutal
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: video released by the vice president's campaign.
• 41:24
  Speaker 11: Barack Obama called Joe Biden best.
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: Vice president America's ever had.
• 41:28
  Speaker 11: But Pete Buttigieg doesn't think much of the vice president's record.
• 41:32
  Speaker 11: Let's compare. When President Obama called on him, Joe Biden
• 41:36
  Speaker 11: helped lead the passage of the Affordable Care Act, which
• 41:38
  Speaker 11: gave health care to 20 million people. And when park
• 41:41
  Speaker 11: goers called on Pete Buttigieg, he installed decorative lights under bridges,
• 41:45
  Speaker 11: giving citizens of South Bend colorfully illuminated rivers. Both Vice
• 41:49
  Speaker 11: President Biden and former Mayor Buttigieg have taken on tough fights.
• 41:54
  Speaker 11: Under threat of a nuclear Iran, Joe Biden helped to
• 41:57
  Speaker 11: negotiate the Iran deal. And under threat of disappearing pets,
• 42:01
  Speaker 11: Buttigieg negotiated lighter licensing regulations on pet chip scanners. Both
• 42:06
  Speaker 11: Vice President Biden and former Mayor Pete have helped shape
• 42:09
  Speaker 11: our economy. Joe Biden helped save the auto industry, which
• 42:13
  Speaker 11: revitalized the economy of the Midwest, and led the passage
• 42:17
  Speaker 11: and implementation of the Recovery Act, saving our economy from
• 42:20
  Speaker 11: a depression. Pete Buttigieg revitalized the sidewalks of downtown South
• 42:25
  Speaker 11: Bend by laying out decorative brick. And both Biden and
• 42:28
  Speaker 11: Buttigieg have made hard decisions. Despite pressure from the NRA,
• 42:33
  Speaker 11: Joe Biden passed the assault weapons ban through Congress. Then
• 42:36
  Speaker 11: he passed the Violence Against Women Act. And even when
• 42:39
  Speaker 11: public pressure mounted against him, former Mayor Pete fired the
• 42:43
  Speaker 11: first African-American police chief of South Bend. And then he
• 42:47
  Speaker 11: forced out the African-American fire chief, too. We're electing a president.
• 42:52
  Speaker 11: What you've done matters.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: So that's what you call, in politics, taking the dump
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: truck full of opposition research, backing it up, and just
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: dumping out the whole thing.
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: Tough hit on decorative brick.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the decorative lights didn't get the only hit there.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Decorative brick took a... Let's beautify our downtowns, people. So
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: that video now has almost 5 million views. Most of
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: them Amy Klobuchar. What did you guys think when you
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: saw it?
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: I think that's a video that comes from a very
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: angry campaign staff and that normally you would want that
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: kind of thing to come out from a super PAC
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: and not your campaign because it's going to really anger
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: a lot of Pete supporters and maybe turn out some
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: other Democrats. It was also a little bit discordant because
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: the first three issues were kind of, campy and belittling
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: and silly, like decorative lights. And then the end was
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: like very serious issues about firing. They tried to get
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: to our different arguments in there. Yeah. And, but you know,
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: the biggest problem with this ad, you know, 5 million is,
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: is nothing to sneeze at, but they have no money
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: to put it on TV. And I guarantee you that
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: the vast, vast majority of those 5 million viewers are
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: not in New Hampshire. So I just, you're going to
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: have a limited effectiveness with an ad like that.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: I guess they see, I read that they spent some
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: money to target it on Facebook in New Hampshire for
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: New Hampshire voters. And, but you're right that, you know, nothing,
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: nothing more than that. you know, I think it's, it's,
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: it's one of these ads that it could end up
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: hurting Pete. And, you know, we, we have seen Pete
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: decline a little bit after the debate in some of
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: these polls. And is that what happened at the debate?
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Is that this ad is that whatever the back and
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: forth has been over the weekend between some of these
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: candidates and Pete, we don't know, but it may succeed
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: in sort of bringing Pete down to earth a bit,
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: but I don't know that it helps Joe Biden at all. Yeah.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: I mean, I had two thoughts when I saw it.
• 44:42
  Speaker 5: One, uh, this is a debate about Pete that was
• 44:44
  Speaker 5: coming and it hasn't happened or he's been really strong
• 44:50
  Speaker 5: in debates about brushing off these lines of attacks. And
• 44:52
  Speaker 5: Joe Biden has not been able to land a punch
• 44:56
  Speaker 5: like this. I mean, I think it's the most effective
• 44:58
  Speaker 5: thing Joe Biden has done to contrast himself with Pete Buttigieg.
• 45:02
  Speaker 5: And it is remarkable that in an ad they were
• 45:04
  Speaker 5: clearly planning to release right after the debate, it was
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: a hit. Biden didn't really land in the debate because
• 45:09
  Speaker 5: I don't think they believe that Joe Biden can successfully
• 45:11
  Speaker 5: land A hit like that and respond effectively during debate,
• 45:14
  Speaker 5: which I think is a very bad thing. That said,
• 45:18
  Speaker 5: I'm surprised how long it took to get to this
• 45:20
  Speaker 5: point where somebody was taking this hard shot at Mayor
• 45:22
  Speaker 5: Pete because the fact that he was the mayor of
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: a small town and didn't get that many votes is
• 45:27
  Speaker 5: a very big liability for him.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good that, you know, he's going to deal
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: with it now that someone's making him deal with it now,
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: because if he wins the nomination, certainly Donald Trump will
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: make him deal with that.
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: Yes. Everyone decries negative politics, but I want these guys
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: to brutalize each other in the primary because Donald Trump's
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: going to do 10 times worse. And let's not kid ourselves.
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: You know, the interesting thing, I think generally, you know,
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: I agree. This ad is more likely to help someone
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: not named Joe Biden than Joe Biden. The beneficiary might
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: be Bernie Sanders right now.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: It's an in-kind contribution to the Sanders campaign.
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: It's notable that CNN's last tracking poll, half of the
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: voters had definitely decided. 21% said they're leaning towards someone.
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: 28% said they're still trying to decide. So there's a
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: lot of room to make up ground here.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Those are huge numbers of undecided or uncertain voters. So
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: then I guess it brings me to the question, like,
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: why is no one... seriously challenging Bernie, who's the frontrunner
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: for not just the New Hampshire primary, but the frontrunner
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: for the nomination right now by far, and could end
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: up cruising to the nomination at this rate. And, you know,
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: if you look at the vote totals, right, if you
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: add up what Klobuchar and Biden and Pete and maybe
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: some of Warren's supporters who don't want to back Bernie
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: have in New Hampshire at this point, it is far
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: more than Bernie Sanders. And yet, no one's really going
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: after him.
• 46:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's what we've been talking about. Biden, Klobuchar, Pete, Bloomberg,
• 46:56
  Speaker 5: all believe they're competing for the same pool of people.
• 46:59
  Speaker 5: And so they're fighting amongst themselves for a number of,
• 47:03
  Speaker 5: I think, valid reasons. As part of a broader strategy,
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: Elizabeth Warren has not picked fights with Bernie Sanders. She
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: is the, if you're on pure ideological grounds, she is
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: the natural person to go after him. A lot of,
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: you know, there was, there are there was a look
• 47:17
  Speaker 5: at how people voted in Iowa. And it's very clear
• 47:19
  Speaker 5: that people in 2016 who voted for Bernie, a lot
• 47:24
  Speaker 5: of them went to Warren. It's true that Warren seems
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: to be losing support to Bernie Sanders. So that is
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: the same pool of voters. And she doesn't seem to
• 47:30
  Speaker 5: want to pick that fight, in part because I do
• 47:33
  Speaker 5: think one of the things that's been very hard, and
• 47:35
  Speaker 5: it's actually something Pete's been really deft at, it is
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: hard to punch left without seeming like a scold, without
• 47:39
  Speaker 5: seeming like you are a wet blanket raining on the
• 47:43
  Speaker 5: parade to combine two underused analogies?
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: Looking through sort of the news stories from the weekend,
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: you know, Biden said about Bernie, I'll tell you what,
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: it's a bigger uphill climb running as a senator or
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: a congressperson or as a governor on a ticket that
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: calls itself a democratic socialist ticket. He said that either
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: in an event or to a reporter. Buttigieg said, I
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: think it will be a lot harder to defend socialism.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: But the bigger concern I have is further dividing the country.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: When the campaign says that either you're for a revolution
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: or you must be for the status quo, most of
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: us don't see where we fit in that picture. I
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: think those are both fair arguments, but there's no money
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: behind them. There was money behind sort of anti-Sanders ads
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: in Iowa. There is zero dollars behind any ads that
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: are contrasting anything with Bernie Sanders in New Hampshire right now.
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: I don't get it.
• 48:31
  Speaker 5: One of the reasons I think it's been hard is
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: You look at Bernie Sanders, when you look at the
• 48:36
  Speaker 5: head-to-heads in places like Wisconsin, he may not do as
• 48:38
  Speaker 5: well as Joe Biden, although now it's about even.
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: He does perform well against Trump.
• 48:42
  Speaker 5: Also, just looking at that stage, Bernie Sanders has an
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: incredible confidence, as do the people who support him. There
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: is a sense that they believe they can win wholeheartedly,
• 48:53
  Speaker 5: and they're very confident in what they're putting forward. The
• 48:55
  Speaker 5: only other two people on that stage that have the
• 48:57
  Speaker 5: same confidence, I believe, are Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobuchar,
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: who all seem to know who they are.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden.
• 49:03
  Speaker 5: Joe Biden's kind of lurching electability attacks or anti-democratic socialist
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: attacks or anti-Pete attacks, Pete's attacks on Bernie. They all
• 49:12
  Speaker 5: feel like politics because they are, but you look at
• 49:14
  Speaker 5: someone like Bernie Sanders and he's responding to those who
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: are attacking his electability, which is running a really good campaign.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: I will say the other person that is running a
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: general election message that seems confident is Pete Buttigieg.
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: Like it's a very different message than Bernie Sanders. But
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: he's out there talking about sort of how to unite
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: the different factions in the party, you know, and why
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: how we need to expand the coalition to win in November.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: But again, it is, you know, when seen next to
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders message is very, very different.
• 49:45
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: I'm just surprised that people aren't running a hard electability
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: message against Bernie right now. I could make a case
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: against every candidate running right now about why they are
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: not particularly electable. And it literally keeps me up at night.
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: But I think the easiest one to make is probably
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: against Bernie Sanders, because you can point to concern among the,
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: you know, Trump, Obama, Trump voters or the moderates who
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: are think his views are too far to the left.
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: And you could see in research, and we've all seen
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: the same research out there, that they are the most
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: predisposed to not vote for him. That would worry me
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: a lot. Look, I think Bernie can overcome it with
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: messaging by running a good campaign. I'm not trying to
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: write him off now, but it's an argument you could
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: easily make. And I think the other thing you'll probably
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: see is after, I think we have to write off
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: the Iowa results a little bit as kind of inconclusive
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: because it was such a fucking mess. But after New Hampshire,
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: We will be able to see if the argument that
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: Bernie can bring out all these new people and young
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: people and really start a revolution and thus enact a
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: sweeping political agenda that way is true or not. And
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: that might be an area you start to see people
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: going after. Bernie Sanders has two options to win.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: He either juices turnout and brings in new voters and
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: young people more than ever before. and says, forget all
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: those moderates, the Obama-Trump voters, the Romney-Clinton voters, forget all them,
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: we don't need them, I'll replace them with new voters.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: Or he has a message, and he can prove that
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: his message and campaign can appeal to those Obama-Trump voters
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: or Romney-Clinton voters. But you've got to do one or
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: the other, right? And you have to at least, part
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: of this primary, and all the candidates have to do this,
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: but part of this primary is proving that you can
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: put together this coalition. Because if you can't, then that's
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: when we're in trouble. So let's talk for a minute
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: about Mike Bloomberg. who's sort of lurking out there, uh,
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: who has begun to climb in the polls because he
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: spent a couple hundred million dollars on ads, uh, and
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: because the democratic primary after Iowa looks more unsettled than ever.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: He's now fourth place in national polling averages, right behind
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth Warren. And he's beginning to pick up some endorsements
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: from moderate house Democrats who flipped red seats in 2018,
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: Haley Stevens and Mikey Sherrill, along with his first democratic governor,
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: Rhode Island's Gina Raimundo. Um, And he may make the
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: next debate if he can hit double digits in a
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: few more polls. How real is this, guys? What's Bloomberg's
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: path here?
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: I mean, so far, he has 2,000 staffers. 2,000. His
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: campaign announced, I think, last week that they're going to
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: double their ad spending, which will put it around, I think,
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: $ 600 million for TV and digital ads alone. So what
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: he needs to have done is juiced his numbers up
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: in Super Tuesday states and in specific congressional districts to
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: above mostly a 15 percent level, because that's the only
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: way he's going to actually get delegates out of these
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: Super Tuesday states. And he has to rack up enough
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: delegates through Super Tuesday and then March 17th to be
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: able to beat Bernie or whoever is in the lead
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: at that point, because by March 17th, we will have
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: allotted 61 percent of pledged delegates. So he needs to
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: win in a lot of places to get delegates on
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: Super Tuesday. I think be able to make an argument.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: Not come in second, like when.
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: When.
• 53:01
  Speaker 5: He has to keep growing and he has to grow
• 53:02
  Speaker 5: faster than he has been growing because if he keeps
• 53:04
  Speaker 5: growing at this rate, he can't do it. I think
• 53:07
  Speaker 5: truly nobody knows. I think we'd all like to believe
• 53:10
  Speaker 5: that organic politics of persuasion and convincing people to support
• 53:14
  Speaker 5: you and work for you and volunteer for you because
• 53:16
  Speaker 5: you've put the time in on the ground and met
• 53:19
  Speaker 5: people and built a campaign naturally by dint of your
• 53:21
  Speaker 5: ideas and talent. is something that would win the day.
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: But who knows?
• 53:28
  Speaker 5: I do think it's probably a mistake for him to
• 53:30
  Speaker 5: have given all 2,000 people identical white helmets and white
• 53:32
  Speaker 5: armored suits and the same taser. I think that probably
• 53:36
  Speaker 5: creates the wrong impression. But I am genuinely surprised at
• 53:39
  Speaker 5: this point how effective blanketing the airways.
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: With ads can be. It was hard for me to
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: wrap my head around an effective strategy that involved skipping
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: all four early primary states. Wrapping my head around that
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: strategy gets a lot easier when the Iowa results were
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: so inconclusive and so disastrous.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: And so just terrible.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: So I think obviously the ads and the money that's
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: spent on the ads is the biggest factor here for sure.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: But even though Tom Steyer is not as big of
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: a billionaire as Mike Bloomberg is, he has also completely
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: saturated the airwaves to less effect, I would say, than
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: Mike Bloomberg.
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: But in South Carolina.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: In South Carolina. I guess what I'm saying is the
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: additional thing Bloomberg has going for him that I think
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: we might underestimate, aside from all the money, is his
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: name ID is very high in the country. For a
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: lot of people, they think of Mike Bloomberg, yes, he's
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: a billionaire, but he's also, and Trump sort of had
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: this in 2016, it was sort of under the radar too,
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: he's just a rich, successful guy in business, right? And
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: a lot of people in this country, they see a rich,
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: successful guy in business and they think, oh, well, he
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: got rich, so maybe he can make sure that America's
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: economy is okay. And They see him as a three-term
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: mayor of New York City, our biggest city, right? And
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: so he does have some credentials going for him aside
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: from just the billions that I think would give some
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: people a look at him. Of course, the challenge, you know,
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: his biggest challenges are he used to be a Republican.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: He endorsed George W. Bush in 2004. His stop-and-frisk policy
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: was a fucking disaster. You know, and so he had,
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: you know, but I guess what has to set up
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: for Bloomberg is if this thing is a complete mess...
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: heading into Super Tuesday. Like if, you know, Bernie does
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: well in New Hampshire and Pete doesn't do as well,
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: if someone else wins Nevada, if someone else wins South Carolina,
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: if there's no clear non-Bernie leader at all by the
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: time we get into Super Tuesday and Mike Bloomberg is
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: in all these Super Tuesday states doing really well, then that's,
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: I guess that's his play. But as you said, Tommy,
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: it's one play because if what happens on Super Tuesday
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: is then Bernie dominates all those states and Bloomberg comes
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: in second. Now, finally, we have the anti-Bernie and it's Bloomberg.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: It's not going to be enough at that point because
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: 40 percent of the delegates were just given.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: Look, I mean, the T-shirts at Bloomberg rallies say, I
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: like Mike, which I get it. That rhymes. But I
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: think it also probably tells you a story about enthusiasm.
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: You know, people aren't like dying to get out there
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: and support it.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: Willing it into existence.
• 56:06
  Speaker 4: To Bloomberg's credit, he's not attacking other candidates yet. But,
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: I mean, I've been talking to some people who are
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: on the ground in Super Tuesday states who say he's
• 56:14
  Speaker 4: omnipresent there. And it's not just TV ads. It's, you know,
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: a 60-day head start on staffing and organizing and, you know,
• 56:21
  Speaker 4: getting endorsements from the right politicians. So he also appears
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: to be a safe place for moderate Democrats to kind
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: of park an endorsement and not worry that they're going
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: to get attacked for it.
• 56:32
  Speaker 5: Just at some point, he'll have to get down in
• 56:34
  Speaker 5: the dirt with the rest of us and do some politics.
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: Show up at a debate, be part of this process.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: All the outrage about him coming to the debate stage,
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: I don't quite get. I get it's repugnant that anyone
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: gets to buy a debate stage slot, but there's Tom Steyer, Ben,
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: for a while. He's been there for a while.
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: His seat lies flat, too.
• 56:54
  Speaker 5: It's one of the nice things about the seat he bought.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: If I were Bernie or Warren or any of these candidates,
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: I'd want Bloomberg on stage to be able to sort
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: of take a shot at him and force him to
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: answer some questions as opposed to just be on television
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: not having to answer anything.
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: The candidates on that stage, on the debate stage, have
• 57:10
  Speaker 5: been put through their paces. And they have all gotten
• 57:12
  Speaker 5: stronger as candidates.
• 57:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: For having been and spent so much time.
• 57:16
  Speaker 5: Just about all of them. Just about all of them.
• 57:17
  Speaker 5: But Mike Bloomberg, Mike Bloomberg doesn't have that. When you
• 57:19
  Speaker 5: see clips of Mike Bloomberg, some of them are pretty
• 57:21
  Speaker 5: fucking rough. He has not practiced this. He is a
• 57:23
  Speaker 5: billionaire who has been surrounded by people that work for
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: him for a very long time.
• 57:27
  Speaker 8: And.
• 57:28
  Speaker 5: look, I don't think it's likely that Bloomberg is the nominee,
• 57:31
  Speaker 5: but if there's even a chance, he's got to be
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: put through his paces. He's got to talk to real people.
• 57:35
  Speaker 5: We got to see him on that stage. He's got
• 57:37
  Speaker 5: to be in it.
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: And I suspect that that will be a tough debate
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: for Mike Bloomberg because you can tell that Bernie and
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: Elizabeth Warren and maybe some others don't have a lot
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: of time for someone who buys the nomination. And again, look,
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: if Mike Bloomberg is our nominee- I will do literally
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: everything in my power to ensure that he wins, but
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: I have a very hard time living in a country
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: where you can drop a billion dollars to get the nomination.
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: That feels like some Banana Republic shit.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the Banana Republic shit is all around us
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: right now.
• 58:11
  Speaker 5: I would like to see Warren and Bernie just treat
• 58:14
  Speaker 5: Mike Bloomberg like a porterhouse for two, you know?
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: All right, there's one last story about Trump's campaign that
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: I want to cover before we go. On Saturday, the
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: New York Times published a wide-ranging piece on the president's
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: campaign strategy. According to the article, Team Trump is, quote,
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: turning to address his re-election bid's greatest weaknesses with an aggressive, well-funded,
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: but uncertain effort to win back suburban voters turned off
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: by his policies and behavior. Specifically mentions an effort to
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: win back suburban women, upper-income white voters, and black men,
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: and it uses Trump's Super Bowl ad on criminal justice
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: reform as an example. I think what's interesting here is
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: the part of the story that talks about how he's
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: trying to juice turnout among his base with all kinds
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: of crazy immigration ads on Facebook that we've talked about before,
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: but that the Trump folks realize that just more turnout
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: is not enough, that the only way he can win
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: is to win back some suburban voters that they lost
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: in 2018 in the midterms. What, if anything, do you
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: think that says about our Democrat nomination fight, what Trump's
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: team thinks their weaknesses are?
• 59:14
  Speaker 5: I think it says less about who our candidate will
• 59:16
  Speaker 5: be and more about the kind of basics we need
• 59:18
  Speaker 5: to get back to whoever that nominee turns out to be.
• 59:21
  Speaker 5: You know, I feel like this reminded me to think
• 59:24
  Speaker 5: about this kind of three tranches. One is, what they'll
• 59:27
  Speaker 5: do to excite their base and get them out. The
• 59:29
  Speaker 5: other is what they're going to do to demoralize and
• 59:31
  Speaker 5: demobilize Democrats. But there is this third piece of it,
• 59:34
  Speaker 5: which is those, uh, those swing voters that they don't just.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: Hold this whole thing out there again, that there's like
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: no swing voters, that it's just about turning inside. You
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: can go listen to the wilderness. I looked into this.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: I've met them in person. There are fucking swing voters
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: that change between elections. It is why we won in
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: 2018 because people switch parties.
• 59:54
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 59:54
  Speaker 5: And just, that it isn't just enough for them to
• 59:57
  Speaker 5: make core Democrats stay home or have their core people
• 59:59
  Speaker 5: tamer out or even just demobilize the middle. They need
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: those people to win. And those are the people we've
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 5: persuaded in 2018 on a healthcare message, not just about
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 5: what we would do, but just about how dangerous Trump is.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: I think they're running a really smart campaign and it
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: should make all of us very worried. That article said
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: they have $ 200 million in the bank. They way outspent
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: everybody else during impeachment, which seems to have almost entirely
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: blunted the impact of all the messaging Democrats tried to do.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: I think having a tailored appeal to African-American voters to
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: try to just chip away the Democratic advantage on the
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: margins is probably pretty smart. I think, you know, part
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: of that is an appeal to white people too, right?
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: I mean, they're trying to tell a bunch of white
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: men and women who are, you know, educated, upper income,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: that voting for Trump doesn't mean they support a racist.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: They're trying to sell that point, even though he is Um,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: you know, he has a great economy that he's taking
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: credit for. And I think we should all just be
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 4: clear eyed about what an advantage that is. And so
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 4: right now we are, uh, in the midst of a primary,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 4: we're fighting each other and we are looking incompetent and look,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 4: this was always going to be a rough patch for
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: the democratic party. Cause you always look like a joke
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 4: during your primary. The Republicans did in 2016 as Trump
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: was rising, but we have a, it's 60, 40 at
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 4: best that he's going to, uh, get reelected. And I
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 4: think everyone needs to understand that and, you know, focus
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: our efforts and be clear eyed about the challenge. But
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: incumbency is an incredibly powerful advantage. And they're running a
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: pretty simple but seemingly smart campaign so far.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Lovett, you talked about getting back to basics.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: I think all of us who want Trump out of
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: the White House were handed an incredible gift today. Trump
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: released his budget. It increases spending on only the military,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: NASA and his border wall. while it cuts Medicare, Medicaid,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: Social Security, environmental protection, food stamps, the Children's Health Insurance Program, education,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: and housing. We have seen through all of the research,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: all the polling, the biggest, the most damaging hit on
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: Trump is a hit about him cutting Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: things that really matter to people's lives. We could also
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: throw in education and housing in there, right? And, you know,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: a pollster to John Bel Edwards, who's the Democratic governor
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: in Louisiana who just won that race, told Greg Sargent
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: at the Washington Post this morning that Medicaid expansion itself,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: they found in Louisiana, was a huge win among suburban
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: moderate voters in this deep south state of Louisiana. And
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: so when we think about, I think sometimes we think about, oh,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: how do we get these suburban voters back? You immediately think, oh,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: they're all these like mushy moderates and we'll never get
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: them and we should be true to our values.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: No, no.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: These people in the suburbs, they care a lot about
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: cuts to education, cuts to Medicaid, cuts to health care.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: And every single Democrat from Bernie Sanders to, you know,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: Mike Bloomberg can all talk about these issues and can
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: talk about how Trump's going to make these cuts. And,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: you know, and I see some of it today. But
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: I think getting back to a message that is both
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: in line with our values as Democrats and progressives, but
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: also can build a bridge to some of these suburban
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: voters that we successfully did in 2018 is paramount. And
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: we have to get back to that as soon as possible.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: I also think we have to wrap our heads around
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: the fact that we might only be able to reach
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: them with that message through paid media. Because one thing
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: that we Democrats and the press corps generally have been
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 4: unable to do is detach ourselves from the daily Trump
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: show of outrages and slights and tweets and bullshit. But
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: Pete's right when he says you want to just change
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: the channel from impeachment to watch cartoons. It felt belittling
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: to a U.S. senator, but I think he's right that
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: people are exhausted by what's happening in the country and
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: we need to reach them with these core issues that
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 4: matter or else they're just going to decide that nothing's
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 4: going to change in my life.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And take that exhaustion and say your exhaustion is
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: because of the guy in the White House who's tweeting
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: nonstop and getting in fights with everyone. And wouldn't you
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: like a country where instead of that bullshit, you have
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: a responsible Democratic president working to solve these problems? OK,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: when we come back, I will talk to Bernie Sanders
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: campaign manager, Fad Shakir. On the phone, we have Bernie
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: Sanders campaign manager, Faz Shakir. Faz, welcome to the pod.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you, John. Appreciate you having me.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: Of course. Congrats on the strong showing in Iowa. That's
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: pretty exciting for you guys. So I wish we could
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: leave Iowa in the past, but, you know, you guys
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: said on Sunday that you're requesting a partial re-canvas of
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: the Iowa results, about 30 to 40 precincts that could
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: move the state delegate equivalent total in Bernie's favor. How
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: much faith will you guys have in the final outcome
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: here once the re-canvas is done? And, you know, considering
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: all the inaccuracies we've seen so far, do you think
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: the state delegate equivalent should be used to allocate the
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: pledged delegates to the convention?
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: From my perspective, no. It's been a shoddy process. It's
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: been handled incompetently by the Iowa Democratic Party. And who
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: knows how long it's been handled incompetently, but certainly this
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: time the manner in which the votes were counted were pretty.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: Poor. They had one job to do, and they couldn't
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: seem to execute it and put in the proper amount
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: of time and thought into it. And so from my perspective,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: we are going to fight for every vote that we got.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: We're going to fight for every delegate we were owed.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: And I think at the end of this process, likely,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: you know, if they do the re-canvas of the worksheets
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: that were turned in by caucus precinct chairs that I
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: think what you'll end up finding is that we gained
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: some delegates there, and who knows if there's others whose
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: accounts were wrong as well. Your question, John, was whether
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: the whole calculus of the state delegate equivalence is worth anything,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: and from my perspective, not much, no. I mean, at
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, probably we have, you know,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: in Bernie Sanders, a candidate who won by 6,100 votes,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: and most other primaries or caucuses, that's enough to declare
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: you the winner, but by some mathematical equation that no
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: one understands, we have not been declared the winner in
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: Iowa yet. And at the end of the day, I
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: think when this process is all over, John, probably what's
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: going to happen is us and the Buttigieg campaign end
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: up with the same number of national delegates to the convention.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: And so would you suggest that if they don't use
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: SDEs to calculate pledged delegates to the convention, that maybe
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: they should use the final alignment on popular vote?
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's always a good way to go.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: called democracy. Generally, when people show up and they vote
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: and you count them up and you say, hey, this
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: one got more than the other one, let's award that
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: person the winner. That seems like a good approach to me.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: That's certainly what we expect to be the outcome of
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: the New Hampshire primary, is that people will show up,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: they will vote. If we got more votes than the
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: other people, then we should be hopefully declared the winner.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: So that doesn't seem to me like a problem that
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: I hope the Iowa Democratic Party reassesses, given all of
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: the challenges that they've experienced and the incompetent way that
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: it has been handled. that we assess from a popular
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: vote perspective how to dole out national delegates.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: So looking at Iowa, you guys were able to increase
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: youth turnout over even 2008 levels. You dominated in communities
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: of color and working class areas of bigger cities. I
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: saw two areas of potential concern for your campaign. First,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: overall turnout was low. The percentage of first-time caucus goers
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: was even lower than in 2016, and only about 30%
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: of those first-timers caucused for Bernie. Second, Bernie struggled against
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: Pete and Biden in some of the suburbs and in
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: a lot of these Obama-Trump counties. How do you think
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: about those two challenges as the race moves on?
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad I'm having this conversation with you, John,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: because you went through 2007 through 2008 with Obama. My
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: perspective on this is a couple-fold, right? One is that
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: in 2007-2008, when you had a very large turnout in
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: the Iowa caucus, It wasn't just that Barack Obama was
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: inspiring a bunch of people and that they all turned out,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: and that's why we had a giant caucus, right? What
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: was also happening, in fact, were a number of other dynamics. One,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: Hillary was out there organizing her votes. and dot edwards
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: without their organizing his people and in all three of
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: you actually brought a lot of people at the caucus.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: Am i wrong about that now that's very true.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: Right so i was basically the cumulative effort of a
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: lot of people inspiring and motivating a bunch of people
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: to come out and the overall turnout ended up being
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: high of course it was in the wake in the
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: end bush presidency so i think enthusiasm to move on
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: and turn the page was strong. Now, I have a
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: couple of thoughts on the turnout in Iowa. One is
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: that it felt to me personally being out there that
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who feel pretty happy with
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: the choices that they've got between them in this primary.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: And it felt to me a bit that there were
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: some people who were saying, you know, we're just going
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: to let us know when you got a primary winner,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: and we're going to get behind that winner, and then
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: we're going to go beat Donald Trump. So I think
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: there were a large number of people who were just
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: kind of like, let's see how this sorts itself out.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: I don't have a particularly strong favorite. The other thing
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: I would say is, from our perspective, yeah, I want
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: turnout to be higher. It was not higher. It was
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: a little bit higher, I guess, than 2016. My view is,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: you know, it should be a warning sign to Democrats
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: in general that we are need to be doing a
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: better job of trying to motivate across the entire party.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: That's why a lot of people tried to assign this
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: just to Bernie Sanders. I think this is a joint endeavor,
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: just as it was in 2008. All of us need
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: to be pushing and kicking the tires, being hard on
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: ourselves about what are we all doing collectively to drive
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: turnout up. So that needs to be done, and hopefully
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: as we get through this primary calendar, we're going to
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: be continually engaging in every effort we can. The last
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: thing I'd say here, John, about it is We got
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: a bunch of young people to turn out, and that
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: was good. I mean, when you had, I think, if
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: I remember the numbers correctly, per some polls that I've seen,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: when Obama was winning the caucus in Iowa back in 2008,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: you had about 20% or so of people under the
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: age of 29 who composed that electorate, and here we
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: had roughly 24%, a higher number than then, or even
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: a higher number by last time in 2016. So we
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: did see a lot of youth turnout, which was great,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: and that is the future of this party, of course.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: So there's one shining kind of glimmer of hope and
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: an otherwise middling performance by our Iowa electorate standards. Yeah.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: So, you know, obviously turnout and increased turnout is one
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: side of the equation that Democrats absolutely need to win.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: The other side is persuasion, right? And a lot of
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: that persuasion, at least in 2018, happened in a lot
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: of these suburbs, some of which had gone for Trump
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: or had gone for Romney and then came back home
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: to the Democrats again. Do you think they'll come around
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: to Bernie if he's the nominee? Or how do you
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: think about reaching out to some of those voters? Because,
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: you know, I did a lot of these focus groups recently.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: I sat outside of Phoenix with a bunch of Romney
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: Clinton voters. They're ready to vote Democrat. They were worried about,
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: you know, Bernie being too far to the left. They
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: didn't say they definitely wouldn't vote for him, but they're
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: worried about it. You know, I sat with some voters
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: outside of Miami who didn't vote in 2016. These are
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: non-voters or third party voters. They expressed some concern about
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: the socialist label, like, How do you guys see going
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: forward the challenge of sort of persuading some voters who
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: may have been for Democrats in 18 but might be
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: a little worried about, you know, Bernie as a nominee?
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: So I've always felt strongly that one of Bernie's great
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: appeals within, you know, a general election perspective is that
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: he can bring independents, no-party preference voters, young voters, first-time
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: voters into the political process. And certainly if you track
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: the 2016 primary. That is, in fact, what he was
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: doing as the course of that primary went on. I mean,
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: he was winning in Michigan and Wisconsin places, not in
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: the major urban areas. He was doing strong in the
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: urban areas. But when you get around that state, he
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: was outperforming by large numbers in those areas. And I
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: think we will continue to see that. I think he
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: has an appeal to working-class folks all over these rural
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: and suburban areas. And I think what will end up
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: happening is we will have this debate over socialism, as
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: you say, and I'm eager to have it. I'm ready
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: to take on Donald Trump as a corporate socialist. That
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: will be, in fact, what you hear from this campaign
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: all the time, that if you want to have a
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: debate about socialism, it's about who does the government serve
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: and work on behalf of, who does it dole money
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: out to. Right now we have a government that doles
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: out billions in federal contracts, billions in... uh... tax subsidies
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: deregulation all of it goes to benefit large corporations in
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: the top one percent and the question of right now
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: i think we have a tidy that a socialism for
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: the riches do you want to change that you want
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: to finally take that on and deliver for working-class democratic
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: social work working-class program that will help benefit you whether
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: you need health care education housing on down the line
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: that can we finally reoriented government work for the working
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: class that's where i think it ends up being a
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: a label that we lean into to help explain and understand.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: And while I know that there's concern about a socialism label,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: I know that there's one thing much more popular than
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: that label, and that is Bernie Sanders. that people know
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: who he is and what he's about. If you ask everybody,
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: go around, say, what's one thing you know about Bernie Sanders?
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: It's either Medicare for All or he takes on the
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: billionaire class, something along those lines. Those are what they
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: know about him. And you look at the head-to-head polls
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: with Donald Trump, and he stacks up quite well. I
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: know they're going to come after us with a bunch
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: of negative advertising, but we're prepared for it because we've
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: built his case on a backbone of spying. It's a
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: strong spying. People know who he is and what he's about.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: Do you think that The Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin path to
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: 270 is easier for you guys than Arizona or Florida
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: or even a Georgia and North Carolina just because of
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: the demographics and some of the appeal you just talked
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: about that Bernie has for a lot of these working
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: class voters?
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: Look, I think he has a unique appeal amongst all
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: of the candidates in the field to win those voters
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: because of his positions on trade in particular, right? He's
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: fought every trade agreement that has hurt and cost those
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: communities greatly. He's been consistent through the course of his
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: life on that. And then when you look at his
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: pro-union labor record, you know, in this field alone, he
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: stands out by far. And so I do think that
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: he's got an appeal to working-class, blue-collar backgrounds that have
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: historically been associated with, you know, Michigan and Pennsylvania, Ohio
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: and Iowa, Minnesota, you know, Wisconsin, those states, of course.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: But as the nature of the workforce in America has changed, John,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: you've also noticed, and we all appreciated, that Latinos and
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: people of color comprise the workforce of America. And that
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: is one of the reasons you see him performing quite
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: well among the Latino population. So when we get into Nevada,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: I think he's going to be very strong. We get
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: into California, places in Texas, places in Florida. So I
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: would not for a moment discount the strength of Arizona.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: When you get into places that are going to be
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: in a general election, his ability to win over working
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: class voters from all colors, all genders, of all types,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: is the appeal. And I think it works in a
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: lot of ways that the pundit class doesn't always fully appreciate.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: So when I, speaking of the pundit class, when I
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: saw Bernie speak in Iowa yesterday, And then watch that
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: debate on Friday. You know, I heard a general election
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: message from someone who is more interested in fighting Trump
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: than fighting the Democratic establishment. You know, I don't want
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: to get you in trouble here, but, you know, you
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: obviously have some establishment ties in your past. How much
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: time do you spend thinking about the role you guys
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: would play in leading the party and bringing the party
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: together if Bernie is the nominee and just how much
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: work that's going to be from your campaign the people
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: in your campaign they're going to be charged with that.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: Effort yeah i took first of all i do believe
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: that there's a hunger and a desire of this book
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: apart of the entire democratic primary it seems like the
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: electorate take to unify to get to a place where
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: we start taking on trump and as we have started
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: to perform better and polls and we did well and
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: i would hope to do well here in new hampshire
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: that i think uh... it's incumbent upon us if in
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: and really the whole field to start thinking about what
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: is the proper messaging that takes on donald trump and
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: brings us all together and starts to expand our base.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: Because as much as I've heard this unify the party
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: rhetoric from a lot of candidates, we all agree with it,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: it's insufficient to just be a unity candidate. You've got
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: to grow the Democratic Party. And if we aren't thinking
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: about how we're growing, we aren't doing our job right.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: And so, yes, you've heard us make those efforts. We
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: are constantly trying to solicit ideas from people all across
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: the spectrum. One thing I'm sure that unites all of
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: us is we want to get this lunatic out of
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: the White House. And if anyone's got an idea about
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: what are the best ways to do that, what kind
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: of research and what kind of messaging works best, we're
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: always going to want that and entertain it. We may
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: have different ideas about what the proactive agenda is, what
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: are the solutions we want to put before the American
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: public and have them support and join. That is what
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: this primary has been about, but I don't think there's
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: going to be much of a challenge on unifying our
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: party to criticize and critique Donald Trump.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: So looking ahead to Nevada, which you mentioned, were you
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: surprised that the Culinary Workers Union, which is the biggest
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: union there, is sending out flyers attacking Medicare for All?
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I think that at
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: a point in time when Medicare for All is growing
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: in popularity among the Democratic electorate, particularly when you start,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: let's say, start the clock in early 2016 or 2015
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: when Bernie Sanders started to run for president. And you
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: look to where we have come over the past four
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: years and the amount of popular support that has grown
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: just within the Democratic Party ranks, and I think also
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: exists in independent ranks out there, and the amount of
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: dysfunction in the health care system that we have all
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: witnessed and continues to remain despite our best efforts to
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: try to improve upon the health care system still too
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: many americans going into bankruptcy still too many people struggling
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: with not going to the doctor because they can't afford
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: it feeling like we've made all this progress over hundreds
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: of years been talking about medicare for all our versions
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: of it universal health care for hundreds of years a
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: hundred years and the democratic party uh... and to feel like,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: you know, we're starting to finally make progress. We're building
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: a coalition that we could finally deliver the solution that
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: we have all long wanted and needed, but felt like
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: the political will or votes, quite frankly, weren't there. And
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: now we have this opportunity to fully deliver on the
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: solution that America needs, and we need all of the
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: political momentum behind it. So I would hope and call
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: on all of our you know, allies across the board.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: You know, if you have your concerns, you have your concerns,
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: but let's not work to undermine something that is, I think,
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: going to, increasing in popularity and something the American public
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: deserves and needs.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, do you think that these workers have sort
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: of a valid concern? They say, you know, we worked
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: really hard to negotiate these plans and we're worried about
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: changing them. I mean, what would you say to like
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: an average worker who's like, hey, this is what I want,
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: you know, Medicare for all sounds like a nice idea.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: I'm sort of worried about this. Well, you know, what
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: can I expect?
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: You've got to start this conversation, John, by saying, let
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: me talk to you about the workforce in America. Your
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: wages have just not gone up for 45 years. It's
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: basically stayed stagnant. And as much as you might feel
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: and be proud of the health care that you've gained,
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: there's a problem when wages and benefits. Let's talk about
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: your 401K. Where the heck did that go? Let's talk
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: about what used to be a defined pension program. Where
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: did that go? You know where that went? That got
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: swallowed up by health care. And every labor negotiator in
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: America will tell you when they go into a negotiation,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: the first thing that's on the table is health care.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: It dominates the conversation. And any time they ask for
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: wage growth or pensions or anything else, the tradeoff is, well, no,
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: you're going to get it in your health care. If
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: you want health care coverage, then you give up everything else.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: And that has been the course of the last 45 years.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: So even when you get slight pay increases, it's swallowed
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: up by health care inflation. And so I think that
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: we have to have that might have the fact the
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: working class and the working class just uh... it's just
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: struggling very very hard out there and if we could
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: take health care off the table for them we open
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: up the great great possibilities of greater wage growth better
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: retirement security child care other things that they need uh...
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: for their lives that they cut they cannot get right
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: now because health care looming like a dark uh... stormy
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: cloud over their heads all.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: The time Last question, Michael Bloomberg. Obviously, you know, I
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: can understand why it is distasteful for a billionaire to
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: be able to buy a spot on a debate stage.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: But I sort of wondered, from a political standpoint, I
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: would have thought that you guys and Elizabeth Warren and
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: maybe some of the other candidates would actually want a
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: chance with Mike Bloomberg on stage to be able to
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: ask him some tough questions about his record, as opposed
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: to right now where he's just, you know, on the
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: air and doesn't have to really respond.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: To anything well let me let me respond to that
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: couple it's one is uh... purple no not afraid to
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: take it on my pulver love to take a lot
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: of very put a lot of debate page well uh...
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: we'll have it out with them we you know our
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: differences yeah pretty plainly and clearly with the billionaires tried
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: by its way into office but i will say that uh...
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: that bloomberg effort to get on the debate stage is
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: everything that's wrong with the politically dysfunctional process that we've
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: got right now. So we go through an entire year
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: in which you have Cory Booker and, let's say, Tulsi
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: Gabbard or Julian Castro or a bunch of other candidates
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: trying to compete to get grassroots donations up to a
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: certain point and meet polling thresholds so that they could
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: be on a debate stage. And at some point, the
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: DNC says, up, you're cut out because you didn't beat it. Now,
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: along comes a billionaire at the very end of the process.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: He skips everything and says, I'm going to jump to
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: the front of the line and now change the rules
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: for me because I want to be on the debate stage.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: And from our perspective, what the hell is that all about?
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: Why are you changing the rules for a billionaire? Why
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: don't you just impose the same rules? So why can't Bloomberg,
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: with the billion dollars that he's got to spend... Why
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: doesn't he go and acquire some grassroots donations and meet
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: a threshold, just like everybody else? How much pain would
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: that cost him? It's just ludicrous to me. Why would
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: you have to change the threshold? We're all trying to compete.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: We've all been competing for a long period of time,
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: and now you're going to change the rules for that guy?
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense, but it tells you, quite frankly, John,
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: the problem with the whole damn system. is if you've
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: got a lot of money, and he's got a lot
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: of money, he's putting it into the DNC, he's putting
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: it into state parties, he's putting it into hiring a
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: bunch of staff all the way through November 2020, literally
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: trying to buy his way into the presidency, and we
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: change the rules to accommodate him. We say, oh, you
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: know what, he's got a lot of money. So we've
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: got to find a way to figure out a path
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: for him to be on the debate stage. That's what happened.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: You and I both know it, right? That is exactly
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: what happened. We've got to figure out a way. to
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: allow him to be on there. And it's a disgrace.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, you could have kept the same rules that
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: Cory Booker had to abide by, and he would have
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: just had to spend some money to meet it. That's it.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: You buy your donors fair and square like tom sire
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: did you have to look like.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: That but i'll think about our fire that i've got
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: another billionaires trying to buy a playbook by what time
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: did that that that bloomberg have not done if you
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: went to iowa he campaigned on the ground he's got
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: about time you've got a new hampshire he is uh...
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: yet had held town hall meeting and as you mentioned
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: he has spent money to acquire and build grassroots support
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: that he could be on the debate stage and he
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: had done but i i i might have my critiques
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: about billionaires trying to work their will But at least
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: he played by the same rules as everybody else. And
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: for that, we should applaud that. And now here we're
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: going to change it just because Michael Bloomberg has expressed
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: a desire to be on the debate stage. And by
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: the way, when he gets on the debate stage, and
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: you probably feel the same way, John, is that it
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: gives you some added credibility and probably some amount of
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: more attention because now you've elevated yourself onto the debate stage,
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: which I'm happy to have the debate with him about.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: He'll probably earn it anyway with his polling threshold. But
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: we shouldn't have changed the rules just to accommodate him. Yeah.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: Faz, thank you so much for calling in. I know
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: you're really busy. Best of luck in New Hampshire tomorrow. And,
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: you know, come back again soon. It's great to chat
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: with you.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, John. Appreciate it. And congrats on the
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: success with the pod.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: Thanks to Faz for joining us today. And we will
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: see you Wednesday after the results of the New Hampshire primary.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 4: Hopefully. Hopefully. Don't say that. That's not true.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 5: Let's not count our chickens before they never get counted.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: Send your calculators to Manchester, folks.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 4: Any abacus?
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 3: You got an abacus?
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 4: Bye.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: Pod Save America is a product of Crooked Media. The
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: senior producer is Michael Martinez. Our assistant producer is Jordan Waller.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: our sound engineer. Thanks to Carolyn Reston, Tanya Somanator, and
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: Katie Long for production support, and to our digital team,
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: Elijah Cohn, Narmel Coney, and Yael Freed, and Milo Kim,
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: who film and upload these episodes as a video every week.