Latest / Project Podcast / The BBC’s Rachel Baldwin: From documentary maker to portfolio director

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The BBC’s Rachel Baldwin: From documentary maker to portfolio director · Project Podcast

• 0:08
  Welcome to the APM Podcast, brought to you by The Chartered
• 0:12
  Body for the Project profession. My name is Emma De Vita and I'm
• 0:15
  the editor of Project Journal and your host.
• 0:18
  One of our objectives on the APM Podcast is to share the stories
• 0:22
  of project professionals who work outside the so-called
• 0:25
  traditional project management sectors.
• 0:27
  One exciting area for the profession is broadcast media
• 0:31
  and it is from that creative world that we welcome.
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  Today's podcast guest Rachel Baldwin is Head of Programme and
• 0:38
  Project Delivery at the BBC, where she leads a team of 115
• 0:41
  people tasked with a huge variety of IT and technology
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  programmes, including a brand new home for the beef in
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  Birmingham and creating the largest orchestral recording
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  space in Europe in East London. But while Rachel is now a
• 0:55
  seasoned project professional, she started her career as a
• 0:58
  documentary filmmaker. Among her credits the top rated
• 1:01
  factual shows like One Life Pregnant in Two Wombs and Mr
• 1:05
  Trebus's Life of Grime, which was nominated for a broadcast
• 1:08
  award. It may seem like an unusual
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  career path, but documentary making, Rachel tells us, has
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  more parallels with project management than it might appear.
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  Listening to both sides of the story, considering multiple
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  options, and finding a middle path forward of vital skills in
• 1:23
  both disciplines, she says. But how did Rachel make the
• 1:27
  career switch, and what project management lessons did she learn
• 1:30
  along the way? Listen on to hear her chat with
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  project writer Andrew Saunders, who interviewed her for the
• 1:36
  upcoming Spring issue. Why don't you start by telling
• 1:48
  me a little bit about how you came to be doing what you're
• 1:51
  doing? You know, what's your kind of
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  career path being? I went to university to study
• 1:55
  geography just simply because I loved the subject and didn't
• 1:59
  really have an idea of what I'd like to do.
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  When I graduated I on route stumbled into filmmaking because
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  I went to University of Birmingham and it was down the
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  road from Pebble Mill, BBC and we sort of inherited when they
• 2:15
  were chucking cameras and old kit out.
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  It all came down the road controlling them.
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  So I started making documentaries as a student.
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  It just sparked something in me that thought actually I could
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  make a living doing this lightly, and I wanted to set out
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  for a documentary maker. So I graduated and took a job in
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  a corporate filmmaking company, making, you know, videos to the
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  a internal training. Company videos, yes.
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  Within a year I'd met people in the documentary sector in
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  Bristol, where I lived, and I got a role as production
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  secretary, I think, and worked my way up.
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  And then I sort of bravely went freelance as a researcher for
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  them. And then, having got experience
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  with that company, was then freelance and worked around lots
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  of companies in Bristol and finally managed to get into the
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  BBC. I got a job as an assistant
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  producer and then I went in. In 2000 I decided to move to
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  London and work for the London documentary unit.
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  I love listening to two perspectives or multiple
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  perspectives and trying to see, well, just to represent people's
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  voices accurately. And I think there's a real
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  parallel with what the BBC, because I work in BBC
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  technology, umm, but I have to work very closely with our
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  content, making partners in news, in the content division,
• 3:46
  which makes everything but news. And the nations who make all the
• 3:51
  regional and local stuff, I need to listen to their needs, work
• 3:56
  out how we provide them with the technology they need.
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  And so you've got the sort of Technology Strategy and the
• 4:02
  technology's view of what would be best.
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  But you've got the user requirements coming in from the
• 4:07
  people that want to use. Yeah.
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  And then I've got the finance people.
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  So sort of bear in mind as well and running the budgets and
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  running big team. I think the documentary making
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  background. I'm naturally interested in
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  people's points of view. The one of my main projects I'm
• 4:25
  trying to consider all the stakeholders opinions and
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  finding a middle path. Do you think it helps having a
• 4:31
  track record as a content creator?
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  It really helps me understand the pressures that are the
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  content making teams are under from my first hand experience
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  and I'm keen to ensure that we make their life as easy as it
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  can be. That if we're rolling out new
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  technology we give excellent training, we provide hand
• 4:55
  holding whilst people are getting used to the new kit.
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  So I think it it makes me emphasise with the demands upon
• 5:03
  my colleagues in Compton in areas I think when you're doing
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  change management, listening to people's concerns and genuinely
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  listening to them and addressing them is the only way of of
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  speeding tech adoption. I think listening and responding
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  to people's feedback and adapting plans or solutions in
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  light of that is key to successful then management.
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  So why, why? Why make the change from this
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  kind of exciting, glamorous thing that you love doing to
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  becoming a project manager? So it is to do with having
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  children. So the filmmaking, even if
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  you're filmmaking in the UK, requires you to be quick to
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  respond to stories and to to sort of go out and film.
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  I found that when I had two quite small children based in
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  London I I was finding it increasingly difficult to be
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  able to have the freedom to drop it all and run, to exit the film
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  of woman that's now gone into Labour, or whatever that
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  observational documentary making requires you to live someone
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  else's life. Yeah.
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  Live your own. Yeah.
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  Interesting. And as a mother, I wanted to
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  live my life and have the freedom to be with my children.
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  Umm, I wanted to shift to a job that I could be london-based.
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  I don't really live my own life. Yeah, I did that in two steps.
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  Step one was be more development, executing where our
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  leading teams that are coming up with TV ideas and selling them
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  to commissioners. I did that for a couple of
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  years, maybe three, And then I thought, I'm not sure this is
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  going to stretch me as much as I'd like my career to stretch
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  me. So I went to a very
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  inspirational woman called Anne Morrison, who used to run the
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  BBC documentary department. So I approached her and asked
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  her advice and I said I'm going to crossroads in my career, I'd
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  really like to find something a bit different, he said.
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  Ohh, there's this thing called project management that we're
• 7:15
  implementing within the BBC now. And I really think with your
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  experience of producing and directing and making things
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  happen and bringing people together, you've got every skill
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  that you'd need. There are some tools and
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  techniques that you need to learn, but why not come and
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  interview for a job I've got coming up?
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  So I went for the interview and got the job.
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  It was a six month freelance contract to the project manager,
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  a strategy for indie supply. Ever since then I've been at
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  BBC. You must have done a decent job
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  then. I I did, but I was learning, not
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  literally on the job. Yes, I must admit I've really
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  loved learning all the different frameworks and all the different
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  techniques you can use. Tell me about the things that
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  you've been working on most recently that kind of one of the
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  projects that you're working on at the moment, I have worked on
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  recently that have been most impactful.
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  I'm currently head of Programme and Project Delivery BBC
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  Technology. Well, actually for a subset of
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  BBC technology, the big bit which is broadcast and end user
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  technology and that entails overseeing about 120 projects
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  per annum, a big portfolio of technology delivery and that can
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  range from fitting out whole new headquarters in Birmingham,
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  which we're currently planning. So we're creating a brownfield
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  site, redeveloping and my team of planning the technology fit
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  out of that new building. We're also creating the home of
• 8:56
  music in East London at East Bank.
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  We're exiting Maida Vale, which is a existing studio where we
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  were called Orchestras and pop and Classical Settings, and
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  we're creating completely new home in the Olympic Park.
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  Right, yes. Cody Spank Yeah, name my team of
• 9:17
  fitting, currently planning and procuring a fit out.
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  So to create Europe's biggest orchestral recording space, and
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  also to create some studio functionality for recording
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  radio shows. Those are two examples of the
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  responsibilities, include the BBC's IT infrastructure and all
• 9:42
  our IT, So my department looks after all broadcast technology
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  and all IT. How many people on your team?
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  At present it's about 115, mainly in London and Salford,
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  with some homeworkers. The mix of disciplines is I've
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  got the BBC's head of business analysis and her team in my
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  department, I've got head of Change and engagement and her
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  team in my department and then a lot of programme of project
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  managers. How does it work then?
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  Project management as a profession, How does it set up
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  at the BBC? How do they?
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  How do they use it? We have three types of project
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  manager. We've got project managers,
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  technical project managers and delivery managers.
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  Agile project management is well established, right, particularly
• 10:38
  where software development is required.
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  And we have called those individuals delivering managers
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  because we want to distinguish between your average project
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  manager and someone that's more product focused and focused upon
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  software engineering and delivery of new functions and
• 10:57
  features or new products. So that those delivery managers
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  are all in the product area. There are some the outwardly
• 11:08
  facing consumer products like iPlayer.
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  Yeah, Phones, There are also some in technology group because
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  we've got our own internal products that enable us to do
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  the work that we do in the media supply chain or indeed some of
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  our internal processes like finance and HR.
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  So there are delivery managers across the BBC looking after
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  software, internal and external. Then there's the technical
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  project managers. I'm the professional lead for
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  the BBC for that subset and and they tend to deal with technical
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  project delivery, delivery of technology and as a result
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  generally reasonably large spends with procurement
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  requirements, commercial considerations and also an
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  understanding of how to bring technology to the users in a way
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  that encourages adoption. So they've got slightly
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  different skills from other project managers who we don't
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  call technical, who perhaps might be doing that sort of
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  thing that I did when I first started, which was bringing
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  together stakeholders to agree a strategic approach to something
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  and an implementation plan or transforming an element of the
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  business, changing how the business process works or
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  looking at savings and bringing new ways of working to bear to
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  change an operating model. So we've got PM who aren't
• 12:39
  technical, who deal with more transformation delivery.
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  So that's the first thing is we've got three types.
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  The delivery managers tend to be embedded within the product.
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  At our Triangle product Manager software engineers, they tend to
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  be focused on particular products.
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  Uh-huh. My technology project managers
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  we deploy to projects. We have an annual funding round,
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  so I seek capital investment for the portfolio.
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  We get a set of projects agreed and we then deliver within that
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  financial year those things or we can have multi year
• 13:22
  programmes where we're working across a longer period to
• 13:27
  deliver the technology to enable the BBC to do what it wants to
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  do for the audience is or perhaps to make a more efficient
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  way of working. I think we're reasonably mature
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  organisation in that there is an understanding that one needs to
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  be focused upon benefits and there's also an understanding
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  that you need to reuse the right project management for for the
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  right challenge. So if you want to do process
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  redesign, you might use a lean called kit.
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  If you want to deliver software, then an agile methodology.
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  If you want to deliver a a new news studio for news at 10,
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  which is what we did last year, that's very much a waterfall
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  project. You know what steps need to be
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  taken in what order. You can plan it out quite
• 14:16
  precisely and so we use the right approach, which is a
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  wonderful technique to manage that.
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  I will appreciated are the benefits of project management
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  as discipline by the kind of you know by the senior managers
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  senior management team at the BBC.
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  There are formal programmes to support all of our strategic
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  objectives being delivered. We've got the Director of
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  transformation who reports directly to the CEO.
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  And yeah, they totally get the fact that they need project
• 14:50
  management because if we're going to meet the deadlines
• 14:53
  we've set for ourselves, you need visibility of how far we've
• 14:58
  got with stuff, umm, someone to run the budget.
• 15:02
  So that project and make sure it, it delivers not only on time
• 15:07
  but the quality everyone set out.
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  Yeah, yeah, I do think BBC leadership generally really does
• 15:14
  right project management profession and need and
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  recognises the need for it at senior level in project
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  management. And so you have quite a lot of
• 15:23
  responsibility. So I was the programme manager
• 15:27
  for the technical relaunch of BBC Three on telly and that's
• 15:31
  six months work bringing all the right people across technology
• 15:35
  and distribution together to effectively enable the
• 15:39
  transmission of BBC Three audience again.
• 15:44
  The people that run the Chapel, hey, we're more interested in
• 15:48
  are we going to launch editorially or what continuity
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  voices do we want for this launch?
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  You know how we going to position this channel with a mix
• 15:57
  of content that we can offer within the budget?
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  Yeah, they do not know anything about how their pictures get to
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  audiences. And nor would.
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  They be accepted to. So the project manager or
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  programme manager as I was then, is required to make sure that
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  every different technical element is considered to ensure
• 16:21
  that their needs are met. Basically the only person in the
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  organisation that was really across all of the technical
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  stuff with me, right? Yeah.
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  Is this is project management seen as a kind of tool in
• 16:34
  modernising the BBC to kind of you know to for for the future
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  And it's in it's in the kind of world of you know in this kind
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  of fragmented media environment that we that we live in now.
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  Yeah, absolutely. There's a range of
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  transformation initiatives way to ensure that what we're
• 16:52
  offering the audience is, is meeting their needs.
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  So as technology unfolds different devices, different
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  ways of streaming content, our offer has to keep pace with what
• 17:05
  people need and in fact lead lead it, you know.
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  So we've got, you know, amazing teams ahead of the curve
• 17:13
  thinking what can we deliver next?
• 17:16
  There's a sort of trade off or there's a sort of there's a,
• 17:18
  there's a tension at any rate between they're sort of creative
• 17:22
  process of content production and the, you know, the more kind
• 17:26
  of rigid process that kind of structures around project
• 17:29
  management. How do you give people enough,
• 17:31
  strong enough process to defer them to do their jobs, but not
• 17:34
  so much that you're kind of hampering the sort of creative
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  side and I suppose. I don't think we're ever, ever
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  hampering the creative side because we're constantly
• 17:44
  enabling it. Yeah.
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  Yeah, the big tension is between aspiration and what's possible.
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  So there is an aspiration to launch a new studio On this date
• 17:58
  and I look at that and think, hmm, right, you haven't got
• 18:03
  enough time or money to do so. Umm, so it's my professional job
• 18:10
  to to go to really senior colleagues and say I I do
• 18:16
  understand that you would like to have this studio go live by
• 18:19
  this date. Let me just talk you through all
• 18:22
  the steps required to get to that point.
• 18:24
  Yeah, demonstrate why actually we need two more months setting
• 18:29
  out to do UM. And then actually, if you take
• 18:35
  the time to explain quite clearly what is or isn't really
• 18:39
  feasible and can demonstrate why, to be honest, most of the
• 18:46
  senior people I've worked with have acknowledged, OK, right,
• 18:50
  well, we better, we better plan it for two months later or come
• 18:55
  on, let's do it six weeks later and you're going to have to nip
• 18:57
  and tuck, right? OK.
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  Yes, yes, yes. So there is a tension between
• 19:03
  there's a lot of things many people across the BBC would like
• 19:07
  to be doing and very brilliant ideas.
• 19:12
  Clearly we need to prioritise which ones would you do and also
• 19:16
  we need to be realistic about how much time and effort and
• 19:19
  cost those things will take. I think you have done some APM
• 19:24
  qualifications. What's the role of organisations
• 19:26
  like APM in kind of building the kind of profile of the project
• 19:30
  management profession more widely?
• 19:32
  As the BBC, when the Chartered Project Professional
• 19:36
  Qualification was launched, we absolutely lent in and myself
• 19:43
  and a number of us got chartered.
• 19:45
  I've really valued that qualification because it gave me
• 19:49
  an opportunity to to look back at what I'd learned and really
• 19:53
  consolidate my practise, to sort of think through how I'd used,
• 19:59
  what I'd learnt in practise, what had worked well, what
• 20:02
  happened. I have done lots of training
• 20:07
  where the BBC often ask our project managers to take the APM
• 20:12
  PMQ right? So that's something we really
• 20:16
  rate and what. Is there is there something
• 20:19
  particular about it that makes you that makes that makes you
• 20:22
  choose that one? It requires the person taking
• 20:26
  the qualification to assimilate the information, but also to
• 20:31
  play it back in written form. So there's a bit more thinking
• 20:36
  and critical analysis applied, right?
• 20:39
  Right. Yeah, has been learnt.
• 20:41
  And so yes, I like. Personally, I like the fact that
• 20:44
  people have to write long answers because it requires one
• 20:49
  to have sort of assimilated. Yes, critically analysed and fed
• 20:54
  out. Yeah, the answer, The response.
• 20:56
  That you've come to, yeah. Yeah, so it's, you know, it's
• 20:58
  it's it's a really robust learning exercise, learning, you
• 21:03
  know, way of embedding knowledge and I think you weren't.
• 21:06
  Trained as a professional, as a project manager to start with.
• 21:09
  So this is something that you kind of came across in your
• 21:12
  career and you know, what are the aspects of it that you've
• 21:15
  that were kind of, you know, harder than you thought it was
• 21:16
  going to be? In my present job, the hardest
• 21:20
  thing is being asked to deliver projects at very short notice
• 21:26
  and very little warning, right? Because we really do want to to
• 21:31
  meet the needs of people that are asking us to do delivery.
• 21:35
  But sometimes things do come up at short notice and we have to,
• 21:39
  we have to assemble a team pretty quickly and against
• 21:44
  aggressive deadlines. So in my current role, that's
• 21:47
  the most challenging thing. How do you persuade?
• 21:50
  People that the sort of because I mean a lot of what you're
• 21:52
  doing is, is, is introducing changes to the way people do
• 21:55
  their jobs and and how do you persuade people that these kind
• 21:59
  of changes that you're introducing are things that they
• 22:02
  want to get on board with. Well, I've got an excellent head
• 22:05
  of fans and engagement. You runs a team of seven or
• 22:09
  eight people who are professional change managers and
• 22:13
  so they've got their own change toolkit.
• 22:16
  Initially we look at what are the benefits, the organisation
• 22:19
  who owns that benefit. So it might be the cost saving
• 22:22
  or audience value. So that's sort of gives us our
• 22:26
  why, why are we doing this. There might be more than one one
• 22:29
  reason, but normally one or two benefits.
• 22:34
  So that's the sort of the why that we can say out loud to
• 22:37
  everyone to explain why we're doing something and then we look
• 22:42
  at the change impacts. So you look at what impacts this
• 22:45
  change would have on the individuals or groups and teams
• 22:50
  to change impact assessment and work with those groups who are
• 22:55
  going to experience the change to really listen to what their
• 23:00
  concerns are. And some of them are really
• 23:02
  valid. They have thought through stuff
• 23:05
  that we haven't thought, yes, I mean for that.
• 23:07
  And we adapt our plans in light of that feedback.
• 23:10
  And the idea is to get the people that are subject to the
• 23:14
  change to really understand why we're doing it and believe in
• 23:18
  the solution and feel confident that they're part of the future.
• 23:23
  It is about making sure they are going to get trained and shown
• 23:29
  how best to do their jobs in this new.
• 23:32
  So the short answer is I've got brilliant change team.
• 23:36
  But the longer answer is people have to believe in the future
• 23:40
  and that they're part of it and that they're going to have the
• 23:42
  right skills to be able to work in that organisation, mostly as.
• 23:46
  A lot of it is, a lot of the resistance is, is fear about
• 23:50
  getting left behind or becoming, you know, relevant or something
• 23:53
  like that, so. It absolutely is I I learnt a
• 23:57
  massive lesson which was on another favourite programme of
• 24:00
  mine. The Digital Production
• 24:03
  Partnership was a partnership between BBC, ITV and Channel 4,
• 24:07
  and it was at a moment where the filmmaking industry had to move
• 24:10
  from giving tapes with information in a piece of paper
• 24:15
  inside the tape box. Yeah, companies make films for
• 24:21
  the telly, giving a tape with a piece of paper inside it
• 24:25
  describing the technical detail of what's on there.
• 24:27
  How long this etcetera, whether it's mono or stereo or stereo.
• 24:32
  But the BBC, ITV and Channel 4 recognised that that we needed
• 24:39
  to become more digital and we created a partnership and
• 24:43
  not-for-profit partnership at the time to bring together the
• 24:46
  industry to move from tapes with bits of paper in two files and
• 24:54
  metadata on XML. Yeah, spreadsheets, yeah, being
• 24:59
  delivered. So we had to set a new standard
• 25:02
  for what that file format would be and what the metadata, the
• 25:07
  information, how that would be structured.
• 25:10
  And we standardised that across the industry, which involved
• 25:14
  working with all the broadcasters. 7 In the end all
• 25:17
  came on right Sky and everyone. So we've got a pan industry
• 25:22
  consensus on this file based delivery standard.
• 25:25
  And then we have to work with the production companies that
• 25:29
  making the content, all the post production companies that were
• 25:32
  post producing and editing and finalising these files to show
• 25:38
  them how to do the files and all the kit manufacturers, the
• 25:41
  technology required to make these things.
• 25:45
  And then? Within the broadcast there's all
• 25:47
  the workflows that media supply chain had to receive these
• 25:50
  things and process them ready for going out on telly and I
• 25:54
  player everything. So the Digital Production
• 25:58
  Partnership was one of my favourite ever programmes to run
• 26:01
  and I I worked on it for four years.
• 26:04
  It was a massive pan industry change programme and what I
• 26:09
  learnt there was if you engage early, listen genuinely to
• 26:15
  people's concerns you can then absolutely you've got time in
• 26:20
  your programme to then respond and adapt And we ended up doing
• 26:24
  major like a year long set of events where we train the whole
• 26:30
  industry. I've been now to do this, yeah.
• 26:32
  Yeah, utterly. Bonkers.
• 26:33
  We wouldn't necessarily have chosen to do that unless we'd
• 26:36
  heard him Fearful they were. So it's a bit.
• 26:38
  Just to summarise the bit, is the BBC a good place for the
• 26:41
  beer? Project manager?
• 26:42
  Yes, if you. Absolutely, yeah.
• 26:45
  Honestly, there's some really big projects that, you know, you
• 26:48
  can launch new TV channels, new studios, you can transform
• 26:52
  operating models within divisions or across the whole
• 26:55
  BBC. You can do quite detailed
• 26:59
  business process redesign on a small scale or you can bring new
• 27:04
  audience offers to bear by introducing new products.
• 27:09
  Sounds you know, not that long ago that was a project.
• 27:13
  Yeah, it's now a real great product and you can work.
• 27:18
  You're working with journalists and creatives as well as
• 27:21
  technologists and change managers, as well as business
• 27:26
  operations people and the people that work at the BBC.
• 27:30
  I tend to find a really passionate and really driven and
• 27:34
  really bright and can do so. It makes it really, really
• 27:39
  collegiate place to work. Thanks to Rachel for giving her
• 27:46
  time to both Project Journal and the APM Podcast, and thanks to
• 27:50
  you for listening. APM.
• 27:52
  Members can check out our big interview with Rachel in the
• 27:54
  forthcoming Spring issue of Project, which will land on
• 27:57
  doormats in March. If you don't currently receive
• 28:00
  Project Journal, then you may want to consider becoming an APM
• 28:03
  member. Head over to
• 28:05
  apm.org.uk/membership for the details.
• 28:09
  For. More insights into project
• 28:11
  management in the media sector? Delve into our podcast archive,
• 28:15
  where you'll find interviews with project professionals from
• 28:17
  Channel 4 and global media agency Wavemaker.
• 28:20
  Links are in the episode description.
• 28:22
  That's it from us for today. As ever, we want to hear your
• 28:26
  comments, feedback and suggestions at
• 28:28
  apmpodcast@thinkpublishing.co.uk. Thanks for listening.