Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / [EP 377] 1968: When Courage Met Opportunity at Apple Records with Barry Greenfield

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[EP 377] 1968: When Courage Met Opportunity at Apple Records with Barry Greenfield · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

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  Speaker 1: Harry Neilson then invited me back to studio A. I
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: was in the studio b ding my.
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  Speaker 2: Album and for two hours I worked with Harry Nilsen,
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  Speaker 2: having the most blissful time of my life. He was
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  Speaker 2: asking me about bass sounds and whether I thought the
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  Speaker 2: volumes alright.
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  Speaker 1: He was mixing Son of Dracula for the movie.
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  Speaker 2: It was just an amazingly normal time like talking to
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  Speaker 2: Eric on his podcast. Then in walked Ringo Star two
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  Speaker 2: hours two and a half hours later, the room changed
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  Speaker 2: when Ringo walked in.
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  Speaker 3: And we're totally booked rock and Roll.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I'll leave you. You're reading. Little Hands says
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  Speaker 1: it's time.
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  Speaker 3: To rock and roll, Rock, roll Out. I totally booked.
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  Speaker 3: Welcome back to Booked on Rock. I'm Eric Senach. This
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  Speaker 3: is the podcast for those about to read and rock.
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: Before we let you know about this new episode and
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: in Fight, our returning guest, just want to let you
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  Speaker 3: know about a great deal that we have. Through the podcast,
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: listeners and viewers can get fifteen percent off classic rock
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: merchandise at olglory dot com. Use the code Booked on Rock.
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  Speaker 3: The link is in the show notes, or you can
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: find it at Booked on rock dot Com under my
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  Speaker 3: Deals all right, so our returning guest a friend of
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  Speaker 3: the podcasts, Barry Greenfield. Barry is a veteran Canadian singer
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  Speaker 3: songwriter known for his evocative lyrics, soulful melodies, and timeless storytelling.
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  Speaker 3: Emerging in the nineteen seventies, he made his mark with
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  Speaker 3: heartfelt folk rock songs, including the cult favorite New York
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  Speaker 3: Is Closed Tonight, earning national airplay and critical acclaim. In
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  Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, he released his first book titled My
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  Speaker 3: Journey to Blue Sky, which we had him on four.
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  Speaker 3: He's back with a new book titled All You Need
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  Speaker 3: Is Courage, Barry. It is great to see you again,
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  Speaker 3: my friend. How are you?
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  Speaker 1: Wouldn't be better?
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  Speaker 2: I'm a fan of the podcast, as you know, and
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  Speaker 2: I look forward to this with bated breath. Always a
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  Speaker 2: little bit nervous about anything that I have to do
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  Speaker 2: as an author or a songwriter, but always happy to
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  Speaker 2: take the challenge because well, you need his courage.
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  Speaker 3: Eric, right, Well, that means you still love it. That's
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  Speaker 3: the thing.
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  Speaker 2: I love it as much as when I was fifteen.
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  Speaker 2: I love it as much as as any of the
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  Speaker 2: incidents that have been in and out of my life
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  Speaker 2: like a river. I get excited still writing new songs
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  Speaker 2: and recording and the new thing with writing a book
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  Speaker 2: is just a breath of fresh air and so good
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  Speaker 2: for my health and so good for my heart.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you have sent me the music that you've
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  Speaker 3: been creating, and it's powerful stuff. This is a time
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  Speaker 3: I was wondering if you agree with this, But we're
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  Speaker 3: in these times where maybe the best music can come
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  Speaker 3: out during turbulent times, the most passionate music can come.
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  Speaker 1: I couldn't agree.
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  Speaker 2: More history has proven that, Eric, Like I don't understand
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  Speaker 2: really whether I am a protest songwriter, but I've always
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  Speaker 2: liked protests songwriters.
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  Speaker 1: And you're right, when there is fire in the hole,
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  Speaker 1: you try to put water on it.
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  Speaker 3: Now, let's talk about the novel begins with a real moment.
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  Speaker 3: Your audition for John Lennon. Just take us back, because
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  Speaker 3: you know we went over that in the first appearance.
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  Speaker 3: But take us back to that day and what do
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  Speaker 3: you remember most vividly.
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  Speaker 1: I think I remember most standing in front of Apple,
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  Speaker 1: looking at the steps into the building, walking into the building,
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  Speaker 1: walking up the steps to the main lobby, and looking
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  Speaker 1: at the huge painting of the Apple that was still
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  Speaker 1: unhung because Apple are opening open for a few days,
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  Speaker 1: and realizing that I had followed a dream and was
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  Speaker 1: living it.
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  Speaker 2: Then working with Deary Taylor and John Lennon was just
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  Speaker 2: the cherry on the pie. It was such an amazing
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  Speaker 2: experience that I've written two books about the book.
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  Speaker 3: It explores the path you didn't take? Why was that
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  Speaker 3: story you felt compelled to tell?
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  Speaker 2: When I was off a recording contract by Apple, I
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  Speaker 2: went to Hyde Park and I was seventeen years old.
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  Speaker 2: I had never played with another musician. I had trouble
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  Speaker 2: tuning my guitar. I I only even playing the guitar
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  Speaker 2: for two years, so of course like B seventh and
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  Speaker 2: IF Diminished were foreign to me, and I just felt
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  Speaker 2: like I wasn't ready. So I went back and I
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  Speaker 2: told them that I wouldn't take the offer, that I
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  Speaker 2: wasn't ready. I only wanted to be a songwriter, not
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  Speaker 2: a performer or a singer. And I felt great relief.
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  Speaker 2: But that was nineteen sixty eight in May, and I've
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  Speaker 2: always wondered what would have happened if I would have
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  Speaker 2: taken the offer and been part of the first Apple release,
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  Speaker 2: which was Hey Jude Mary Hopkins song Those were.
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  Speaker 1: The Days Sorrow Milt c by Jackie Lomax and the
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  Speaker 1: VANDID Band instrumental.
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  Speaker 2: And you know one can never know. Jackie Lomax faded away.
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  Speaker 2: Mary Hopkin went on to international stardom. I just never
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  Speaker 2: ever was attracted by fame. I just wanted to be
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  Speaker 2: a songwriter. So I refused the offer. But I've always
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  Speaker 2: wondered what would have happened if I had accepted the offer.
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  Speaker 2: So the book All You Need Is Courage is based
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  Speaker 2: on an imaginary fella who was two years older than me,
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  Speaker 2: called Adam Bond, who did accept the offer, And then
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  Speaker 2: the next thirty three chapters are what.
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  Speaker 1: Happened if it was.
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  Speaker 2: I got the idea after watching the movie Yesterday, the
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  Speaker 2: fantasy film about no One knowing that the bills existed,
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  Speaker 2: and I realized that I wanted to write a really
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  Speaker 2: positive outcome, not drugs and bad finger. I wanted to
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  Speaker 2: be happy. And so that was the experience for writing
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  Speaker 2: the book over three four months.
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  Speaker 3: I did see that movie, that's the one we're at
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  Speaker 3: the end. They show an older John Lennon who's an unknown. Yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: that's a great movie.
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  Speaker 2: It was a beautiful love story about two kids who
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  Speaker 2: fell in love and music was a byproduct of the movie, but.
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  Speaker 1: He he made a very believable reactor, and the director,
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  Speaker 1: Richard Curtis, did a wonderful job, as he did with Love.
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  Speaker 2: Actually, and I just wanted to answer the question, which
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  Speaker 2: of course we will never know the answer to if
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  Speaker 2: I would have said yes to John Lennon.
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  Speaker 1: And of course the path not taken is an unknown path,
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  Speaker 1: so you can only only imagine. But that's what I
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  Speaker 1: did with this book.
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  Speaker 3: And Adam Bond essentially your alternate self. Where did that
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  Speaker 3: name come from?
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  Speaker 1: Well, Adam was the first and I wanted an English name,
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  Speaker 1: and I ended up with Bond. And it was only
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  Speaker 1: about halfway through the book when I.
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  Speaker 2: Realized James Bond, and I made me laugh, and I
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  Speaker 2: then added a line to the book, my name is
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  Speaker 2: Adam Adam Bond. I just wanted an English name because
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  Speaker 2: I'm English, and I wanted the fella to have English
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  Speaker 2: roots because I believe that English songwriters have a different
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  Speaker 2: root source than American songwriters, and I wanted Adam to
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  Speaker 2: be British.
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  Speaker 3: You make it clear this is fiction grounded in real events.
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  Speaker 3: How did you balance authenticity with imagination.
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  Speaker 1: That's an interesting question, Eric, and it's a good question,
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  Speaker 1: but I'm not sure how you can answer it.
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  Speaker 2: Because it isn't authentic, it is imagination. But I know
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  Speaker 2: a lot about George Harris, and I know a lot
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  Speaker 2: about John Lennon.
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  Speaker 1: I know a lot about Paul McCartney.
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  Speaker 2: I know a lot about John Paul Jones, I know
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  Speaker 2: a lot about Nicky Hopkins, and I. When I was
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  Speaker 2: writing about hanging and working with these individuals, I used
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  Speaker 2: my knowledge of how they spoke, how they worked. I
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  Speaker 2: did a lot of research. Like in twenty twenty six,
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  Speaker 2: you can research a lot on Google and AI, so
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  Speaker 2: you can find out clothes they wore, whether they smoked,
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  Speaker 2: whether they were diligent to some degree.
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  Speaker 1: You can find those things. So I tried to be
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  Speaker 1: accurate and real.
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  Speaker 2: And two minutes ago my wife and I were watching
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  Speaker 2: on YouTube I did cabot interview with George Harrison. I
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  Speaker 2: don't know what year it was, but it was after
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  Speaker 2: all things must pass, and it struck me how his
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  Speaker 2: personality and sense of humor I had captured quite quite
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  Speaker 2: well in the book.
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  Speaker 1: Now I've had three people read the book, you being
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  Speaker 1: the fourth. I don't know your opinion is on it,
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  Speaker 1: but I guess I'm sitting here, so that must say something.
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  Speaker 1: But the three people that have read it are all authors,
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  Speaker 1: and there are all people I have never met. One
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  Speaker 1: lives in Nashville, one lives in London, and one lives
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  Speaker 1: in Toronto. Never met successful authors, all three, and they
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  Speaker 1: all told.
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  Speaker 2: Me separately that it felt like it was not a novel.
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  Speaker 2: It felt like it was real because you got to
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  Speaker 2: know who George Harrison is because I go to his house,
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  Speaker 2: I hang with him and Patty, I had breakfast with them.
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  Speaker 2: We write a song together, all things that, of course
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  Speaker 2: did not happen, but were easy for me to explain.
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  Speaker 2: I've collaborated with a lot of famous people, and I
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  Speaker 2: know how it goes down, and they're not all the same,
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  Speaker 2: but there's a thread. And I just tried to use
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  Speaker 2: my fifty years of experience in music business and my
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  Speaker 2: knowledge of the Beatles, because I really wanted it to
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  Speaker 2: be a Beatle book.
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  Speaker 3: The authenticity that I refer to partially would be also
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  Speaker 3: your experience in the studio. There's the description of what
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  Speaker 3: it's like to be in the recording studio and all
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  Speaker 3: those things you know about people that you met, you
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  Speaker 3: work with, hung out with, you got some funny stories.
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  Speaker 3: What was the story from the Monkeys Mike Nessa? You know,
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  Speaker 3: so the authenticity is there, but then you balance it
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  Speaker 3: out with that great imagination that you have. So I
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  Speaker 3: think it's a perfect blend.
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  Speaker 1: Well, you nailed it. That's exactly what I did do.
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  Speaker 2: When I recorded my best album, which is called Blue Sky,
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  Speaker 2: I was in Los Angeles with the best musicians in
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  Speaker 2: the world, Larry Carlton, Jim Gordon, Joe Osborne, Larry Mahobrack,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Larry NetTel. These were the best players in the world
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: and the ones that played with the Birds, and Simon
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  Speaker 2: Garfunkel and Frank Sinatra. And when I wrote this book,
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  Speaker 2: all you need is courage about being in Abbey Road
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  Speaker 2: and being in Trident Studios.
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  Speaker 1: I was really sharing my experience.
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  Speaker 2: With Larry Carton, who is as good as Nicky Hopkins,
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  Speaker 2: and I just made the experience honest because Larry Carton
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  Speaker 2: was kind helped me a great deal, shape my music
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  Speaker 2: a great deal. And in this imaginary tale, this novel,
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  Speaker 2: Nicky Hopkins plays that role.
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  Speaker 1: So that was very observative, you, Eric, because that wasn't
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  Speaker 1: an accident. That was a plan.
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  Speaker 3: The chapter list reads almost like a journey through the
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  Speaker 3: late sixties music world. You mentioned it the names. You
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  Speaker 3: open with John Paul Jones of led Zeppelin fame, then
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: you move into George Harrison and John Lennon. Why structure
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  Speaker 3: chapters around specific iconic figures because.
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  Speaker 2: It's more interesting for the reader. John Paul Jones in
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  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight was just coming into his own. He
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  Speaker 2: had worked a lot with Donovan at Dusty Springfield and
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  Speaker 2: dozens and dozens of others as an arranger and as
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  Speaker 2: a guitar player and as a bassis primarily.
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  Speaker 1: He had also worked with Jimmy Page in a.
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  Speaker 2: Lot of these sessions, with a lot of these really
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  Speaker 2: big hits. From sixty five, sixty six, sixty seven sixty
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  Speaker 2: eight he began playing with the Shadows, And I wanted
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  Speaker 2: to have a producer, producer Adam Bond, who was real
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  Speaker 2: everything is time time accurate. So the dates I used
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  Speaker 2: in the book are dates when things actually happened. So
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: I John Paul Jones was not a household name, but
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  Speaker 2: he was known in the industry from people who had
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  Speaker 2: worked with him at Trident and Olympic and stuff. So
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  Speaker 2: when it was time to get a producer, John Lennon said,
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to hire John Paul Jones. So I found
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  Speaker 2: out how told he was. I found out how old
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  Speaker 2: he was. I found out whether he was.
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  Speaker 1: Married or not. I found out his wife's name.
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  Speaker 2: So the conversations when John Paul Jones comes into Apple
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  Speaker 2: to meet me are imaginary, but based upon data.
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  Speaker 1: He said, how old are you? I said, I'm nineteen.
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  Speaker 1: How old are you?
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  Speaker 2: I'm twenty two, because he was twenty two in nineteen
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  Speaker 2: sixty eight. Then later when I opened the Marquee for
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: the new Yardbirds and a band called the Bakerville Blues Line,
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  Speaker 2: that was a real Gillie and the date is real,
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  Speaker 2: And it was the first gig that the four Yardbirds,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: who became led Zeppelin a week later, played, So I
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  Speaker 2: knew how big the Marquee was. I knew how many
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: seats they sold, two hundred over room. I knew it
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  Speaker 2: was stacked with famous people because Jimmy Page was playing,
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  Speaker 2: and I was allowed to do three songs before the
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  Speaker 2: Baker Street Blues Band, and I picked three aggressive songs,
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  Speaker 2: which were the same three songs I played at the
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  Speaker 2: Twelve Bar Club in London in nineteen seventy four, and
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  Speaker 2: that was the most successful concert I've ever played, except
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: for the one I did three months ago, which I
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: think even when higher level. But the one in London
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  Speaker 2: was just a phenomenal headlined at the twelve Bar, which
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  Speaker 2: was one of the most famous clubs on Denmark Street.
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  Speaker 2: We had three hundred and fifty people there. I came
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  Speaker 2: off with my shirt absolutely sweating, completely wet, and I
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: made the Marquee Night with the new Yardbirds that night.
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  Speaker 2: So what happened to me at the twelve Bar club
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  Speaker 2: happened to me for those three songs at the Marquee Club.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know the date, but it's in the book.
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  Speaker 3: So cool. But that's why you feel like you are there.
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  Speaker 3: That's the thing, the work that you put in.
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  Speaker 2: It's the only ray to write a book is to
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  Speaker 2: put your heart into it. And don't know way to
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: put your heart into it is to tell the truth.
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  Speaker 2: And you start bullshitting and lying and exaggerating, you know,
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  Speaker 2: like I didn't steal the night of the Marquee The
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Yardbirds were the new Yardbirds were phenomenal, and I was
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: just a footnote. But then the next day or the
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: next week. They got one line in The Melody Maker
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  Speaker 2: when they reviewed the concert and they said Adam Bond
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: made himself proud or something like that. And I've had
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: those one liners. When I played the Twelve Bar Club,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: I got a one liner in the Times, and it
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: was the night of the show, and it was in
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: the British Times, which is a very conservative newspaper, and
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: they said Canadian songwriting legend Barry Greenfield, a compadrere of
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Leonard Cohen, is playing London.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Tonight now and then they gave them the time and
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: all that stuff. I don't know if that's sold in
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: the tickets or if anybody read it, but that was
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: the same as the line that Adam Bond got. So
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  Speaker 1: there's a lot of truth in All you need is courage,
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  Speaker 1: even though it's a novel.
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  Speaker 2: And I make that really clear in the Breakfast, and
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  Speaker 2: I got legal stuff about you know what you can do.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: So apparently you can get away with using living souls
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: as long as you're not slanderous. So you can say
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Paul McCartney and I had lunch, but you can't say
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  Speaker 2: Paul McCartney sold me part.
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  Speaker 3: Interesting, isn't it.
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  Speaker 2: I did a lot of research on that because I
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: was worried that I'd crossed the imaginary line, but I haven't.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a similar challenge that I have as a
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: podcaster with what you can copyright is a big thing.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Tell me what kind of challenge is that.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: Well, I had one before this where I was playing
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: clips of music and they would get pulled down, especially
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: if you want to put them on YouTube. So it
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: became a frustration because you know, you put in for
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: the show. It was good fourteen fifteen hours of time
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: put in for an entire episode, from concept to getting
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: all the audio, writing the script, recording and editing it,
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: and if it's going to get pulled down, you know.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: So when you when you sign up for a podcast,
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: you use these companies like I used Breaker, they make
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: they make you agree to a copyright agreement, like you
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: can't play this without permission. Now, as we we know,
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: we'll hear a lot of ones that do play him,
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: and it's it's a chance to take if you if
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: you get on their radar. It's a similar challenge, different
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: in what you're saying. Obviously that's you know, slander, but
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: but there are things you have to work around as
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: an author. You got to be careful like images, you
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: know photos.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you need to get permission for everything. I mean.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: And I thought about writing Paul McCartney and asking for permission,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: but I knew it was a fruitless exercise because he
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: gets fifteen twenty lasted day for shit.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: I like to share with you my for your listeners,
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: my experience with YouTube and when I was kicked off
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  Speaker 2: for three months.
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  Speaker 1: You are one of my my my most proud projects
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: is a thing that took three years to do, and
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: that was my visit to Auschwitz. And I they wrote
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: five songs about my visit to Auschwitz, which is which
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: are all on YouTube, and one of them was called
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure I can use the F word on
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: your story. Sure, one was called fucking Nazis. And for each.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Song, I made a video and fucking Nazi you started
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: off with a Swastika flag blowing in the wind, and
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: then went through a series of videos of Hitler and
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: fucking Nazis for the first twenty five seconds, and then
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: it went into the.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Song because it was a long intro.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: It's a very aggressive sort of ACDC kind of song
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: because that's what it has to be and YouTube said
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: that I was spreading hate by using the swastika. So
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: of course they'll allow you to appeal, but you're not
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: really appealing. You're just talking to a computer. It's all computer.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: So I wrote to the person, which was actually a computer, saying,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: hey man, I'm not spreading hay ladyship, spreading love, and
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: I was not honoring the Nazi regime. I was doing
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: the opposite. The song is called Fucking Nazis. They just
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: roll back as if they didn't read it, and said
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: you were have one strike your band for coming.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: It was three weeks or three months.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: I think it's three months. That's very frustrating. It's a
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: YouTube is They're real strict with that.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's not a day. It's a computer.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: It's an it. Yeah, it's an AI scan.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, you can go on for the days
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: talking to Barry Greenfield about AI and about odo tune
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: and all that stuff and what it's done to music.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: And of course I honored the Beatles like so many
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: of my generation do, and they left mistakes in and
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: you know that's what makes it human art. And you know,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: I've never had an editor to do my books. I've
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: done spellcheck, and I've done where I'm at check and
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: all that stuff, because that's.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Being polite to the reader.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: But I don't want someone to reform my thoughts because
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: my thoughts are the art of why I'm an author
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: and why I've been a songwriter for six decades. And
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: every time I've taken people's advice for my songs, I'd
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: looked back three months later and thought, Wow, they're a
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: bit weaker because no one tells Bob Dylan you know, well,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: don't use that word, Bob.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: I know more than you do.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: And I was having a conversation with Malibu twenty years
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: ago with one of my brothers and that's girl and Gulban,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: who is one of the greatest songwriters ever, and having
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: this discussion, and the phrase he used because he's a
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: great wordsmith, was every fucker is a genius across the table.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: I never forgot that.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Because everyone has an idea that can make your right.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: It's better to their liking, and I believe art should
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: be No one tells you how to paint, no one
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: says use more green, Well they shouldn't, and no one
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: should tell an author or a songwriter how to improve
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: their art, even though they're trying to. And I know
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: editing is a huge part of film and a huge
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: part of books, but it's not for me.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, one hundred percent, thank you. Yeah, yeah,
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: I get that. As a podcast say hey, you know
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: what you should do? I should do what I'm doing.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: That's what I'll learn as I go, or I'll be
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: inspired as I go to maybe try something. But some
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: people mean, well, but you're just kind of like when
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: it's something you have a passion for and it's your art,
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: you gotta be careful, you know, especially if it's somebody like,
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: you know, for you like if somebody who's not a
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: musician saying, hey, you know what kind of song you
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: should write?
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, but yeah, you know, you know, and no money
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: can be right. I mean, maybe maybe they are better
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: than you at picking interesting words and stuff, but then
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: it's not art. Art is what comes from Eric, it's
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: what comes from Barry.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: It's take it or leave it, you know, it's you know,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, collaboration is a huge part of songwriting.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Collaborated with lots and lots of people, and George Harrison
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: and John Lennon and other people played a role in
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: writing eleanor Rigby. They all had ideas. Ringo wrote Darning
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: the socks line, George wrote all the lonely people. And
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: that's collaboration. That's a different thing. That's when the art
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: is being made. But when people read the art and
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: then try to improve it, that's where I think it's
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: not for Barry.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: And I know it sounds a little bit egocentric.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: I know it sounds a little bit arrogant, but I
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: think it's just trying to stay pure.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: That's all it is. Yes, it's all it is. It's
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: it's I know. I'm totally with you on that, man, totally.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: That's why I like your channel, Eric, and I watch
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: it all the time in years now, and it's because
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: it's Eric.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope it's sincere. You know. There are things
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: I try. I'm continually trying, and I'm like, let me
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: try this for thumbnails, for the and I'll just continually
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: change because I have like that restless creativity and I'm
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: looking maybe to see can I improve on that? And
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: then sometimes I'll take a step forward and I that
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: step forward I'll stay with. But sometimes I'm like, no,
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: I'll step back, you know. But it's you can't be
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: afraid to make take a little risk here and there too.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: All you need is courage, yes, and without courage you
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: can't be brave, And without brave or you can't make art.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Probably the bravest songwriter ever, well maybe Dylan, But I'm
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: gonna just take a stab and say, John Lenny if
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: he would have played I Am Lauras on an acoustic
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: guitar to anybody other than George Martin, they would not
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: have understood it. His madness, his creativity, uniqueness. I think
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: one of John Lennon's finest moments is I want you.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: She's so heavy. Now another person can say, John, there's
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: only seven words in the song, or eleven words, whatever
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: it is. It's not enough. You know, you do the
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: same thing over and over again.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: But that powerful chord pattern and line that George and
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: John play in between those moments and then at the
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: long long tag is just brilliant. And instead of editing
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: it as a fade, he snaps it on the four
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: inch tape.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: No one never did that before. So all you need
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: is courage came from like John Lennon. When I walked
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: into John Lennon's office in nineteen sixty eight, I imagine this
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: is correct.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's correct, but he said to
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: me something to the effect of, you just walked in
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: the door like no one else has done that. And
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: I said, well, you know, you were on TV on
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: the Tonight Show on maybe eighteenth, and you said, with
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Paul McCartney saying next to you, come to the Apple,
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: bring your songs, bring your poems, bring your screenplays. There
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: will be no suits waiting for you. He invited me,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: and I think he was really really I don't know,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: make that really clear to the listeners and to you,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: but I think he thought this kid flew from Canada.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: He's not a wealthy kid. I used all my money.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: I did use all my money. It was Meanthi University,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: and I flew from Canada because I believed he would
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: see me and sear and beholden. He saw me and
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: he offered me a recording deal. I mean, who would
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: have thunk it.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: Wow? Yeah. The courage, the courage.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Ask a woman to marry you, ask a man to
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: marry you have a child. You know people that chase
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: some tornadoes full of courage following their passion. Talk minus
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: action is nothing. Talk with action, we'll get you somewhere.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: Find the bookdown Rock website at bookednrock dot com. There
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: you can find all the back episodes of the show,
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: the latest episode in video and audio, links to all
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: of the platforms where you can listen to the podcast,
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: plus all the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: and x. Also check out the Booked on Rock blog.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: Find your local independent bookstore, find out all the latest
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: hot rock book releases, and before you go, check out
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: the booked on Rock online store, pick up some booked
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: on Rock merch. It's all at booked on rock dot com.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Let's talk about the first chapter a little bit more
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: before we move into the others. You meant you open
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: it with the twilight zone is why was that the
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: perfect metaphor for stepping into Apple Records.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Well, the thing about Apple Records was I met Barry
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Taylor first, and Derek took me through all of Apple,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: which was a maze of halls, and every single room.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: Was empty because they just opened a few days earlier,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: and the only people in the building were John Yoko,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: the receptionist, a young eighteen year old Carnebie street girl,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: and Derek Taylor and it was like being in a
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: twilet zone walking through this really dilapidated office.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: It was not smart, it was not clean, it was
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: not beautiful. It was just an old building in London
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: in a very very wealthy area called Mayfair.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: It wasn't in Carnebie Street or Chelsea. It was in
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: a very wealthy area, which the Beatles liked. They liked
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: being not where there's buskers or homeless in front. So
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: it was the twile zone, brother, And that's why I
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: made that metaphor, because it felt like I've entered another world.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: And then walking into an office and seeing John and Yoko,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: it was bizarre because there was smaller than you thought.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Everybody was smaller than youthorpe some reason, and they were
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: kind and loving.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: I want to ask about a couple important characters, starting
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: with Derek Taylor, who comes across as both a mentor
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: and a guide. So tell us who he is and
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: how you approach writning him as a character.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Derry Taylor was the key to the story to my
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: adventure at Apple because I walked into Apple and I
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: said to their zepnist, I'd like to meet and he
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: to meet John Lennon because he invited us from.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: This night show and she said, do you have an appointment?
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: And I said no, and she said, we'll take a seat.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: And then this fella came out and I recognized him
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: the mustache. Derrek Taylor nineteen sixty eight and Derry Taylor.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Joined the Beatles in nineteen sixty four, and he was
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: a publicist and a writer, and he wrote some of
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: the liner notes for the early albums and he was
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: fired by Brian Epstein. Then when Brian Epstein died in
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: sixty eight, we think by suicide, but we're not really sure.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Could have been fault, just taking the wrong pills at
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: the wrong time. We hired Derek Taylor when.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: They opened Apple and made him head of media and
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: head of marketing and had a publicity and whatever the
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: right titles were in that period. So he came out
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: and he knelt down beside me and he asked me
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: if I'd made a cassette for John and I said, no,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: I've never made a cassette. I've never recorded a song.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: He said, well, will you play the songs for me?
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: So he went through this maze like the twilight Zone,
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: and then I played Derek ten songs and he was
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: flabagasted and he said, these are great, these are good songs.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: And then we walked into John's office.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: And that's when John, based upon what Derek had said,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: asked me to record two of the songs. And the
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: two songs they.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Picked were with This New Girl and Loves for the
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Young and Old, And that was more Derek's decision than
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: John's decision, although they wanted my approval and I liked
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: all the songs, but Loves for the Young and Old
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: was the song because it was the best one I
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: knew it was. It was a great title and no
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: one had written a song about love is for old people,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: and that became the A side of the single, which
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: was never released because I wouldn't allow them to.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: And having his character as a mentor and as a
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: guide just seemed right. I mean, that would be, that
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: would be how you think it would play out if
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: you had said yes, yeah.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: And to even.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: It's consolidate that forward because it was just based upon
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: three days of working with Derek Taylor, how kind he was,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: how supporting he was, how loving he was. I've felt
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: a friendship with an author in London, a guy called
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Tim Quinn, and Tim Quinn has written a number of
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: books about the Beatles, and he.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: I don't want to put a number on it, but
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: it was I'm thinking two decades who was best friends
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: with Derek Taylor. Dill Tayler died in the mid seventies,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: I think, And.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: He said that the way I described Derek Taylor was
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: spot on, and this was a man who was his friend.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: And I then when I wrote in the book about
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: buying Derek Taylor record, I called Tim in London and
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: said what kind of music did Derek like? And he
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: said Motown? So I bought Derrek Taylor a Motown record,
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: because again, I wanted to be true. I wanted to
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: be real. I wanted to not just think. I would
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: have said Moby Grape or Love or the Trogs. It
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: might have been sort of right, but Motown was right.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: So I got Derk Taylor. I did all kinds of
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: stuff like that, all kinds of research that I could
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: do that would help me when I'm guessing, get as
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: close to correct as possible.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: Sheila Hughes feels like the emotional anchor talk about her
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: and was she based on somebody specific or symbolic maybe
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: of home.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: There was no tea room lady when I was an
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Apple because I was only there for the first three days.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: They hadn't hired one yet.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: But the beautiful thing about Sheila Hughes, who is completely
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: made up, is she's from Liverpool. Because they loved people
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: from Liverpool and they loved people in their midst who
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: they could relate to from their early years. Sheila Hughes
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: played by the Apple rules. I did a lot of
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: reading about the Apple rules. The Apple rules was everything
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: stays in the house, which was what Megan Markle and
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: a friend he can't keep.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Everything goes out of house.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: People talk now no matter about the slavers that you sign,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: so they had to be really respectful of not talking
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: about things they saw.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: And they were like motherly types. Paul McCartney's housekeeper who's
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: talked about quite a lot of the book, Missus Rose
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: was real.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: I read a lot about her and her personality, and
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: her personality is intact in the book, but it was
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: also shared with shel Hughes, and Shey Hughes became Adam
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Bond's motherly figure in his tremendously difficult ride over the
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: next eight months, working with very famous people, Adam Bond
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: was more gifted than Barry Greenfield. He could play the
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: guitar better, but not much.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Just better.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: Adam signs a contract without reading it. What does that
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: moment say about youth? Trust? Ambition? Very common?
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Berry Greenfield getting with his New York management
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: company and they stole everythingny from him. You should always
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: have a lawyer read the contract. And I'm not saying
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: you shouldn't trust people. I'm saying that there's bat cats
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: out there that know how to make you feel good.
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: When I was in radio, I said it, many would
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: say it, the younger interns. I'll be on the air
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: for free, man, I don't care be careful. They know that,
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: they know that they could take advantage of you.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, you have to the music business.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: I wrote a line when I was seventeen that I've
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: never ever finished the song.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Now that I'm seventy.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Five, maybe I will visit the song as I've always
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: loved the line, and the line was, I don't forget
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: it's the music business. Don't forget where the emphasis is.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: It used to be the music, but now it's completely
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: on the business.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: The very rueful the roll that was seventeen and look
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: what's happened. And you know the other song that came
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: along that I always thought that that song was video
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: killed the radio star. I mean, I think Duran, Duran
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: killed music. I think hair became so important and good looks.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: And then the next of course faltering was acutune, an
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: auto tune, and so you can sing like shit and
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: yet it could still sound not Mariah Carey. There's also
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: sings like shit probably in the real world, and is tuned.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: And the brilliance of Madonna is not Madonna's who she hires.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: William rbit that they.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Make her look like a diamond when really she's a
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Zeconian whatever.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: The other word is in the fake diamond stuff.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: You know, it's that when the people of like a
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: marmalade saying back in the sixties, they were singing when
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: bad thing was saying little songs. They were doing it.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: It wasn't helped by a computer. Someone was held by
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: an engineer, but they had to execute.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you're not a great singer, you could
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: still be a great vocalist. You could still remote and
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: you can still get across those lyrics in a way
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: that you don't need auto tune.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, and there's a million examples of that. And you know,
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: Tom Waits did it all from the heart, and no
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: one ever said you sing like shit. And people are
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: telling me Dylan kind saying I don't agree with that.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: I think Dylan has a like we were discussing. I
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: heard the most foul off air before we turned on
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: the light. And he sings it like an old fart,
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: But it's got so much old fart, heart.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: Boy, it brings chills to me every time I hear it.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: There's nobody else that could deliver that song but him.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: I was at home in Saltie, Rhodesia with my sister
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: watching television. My parents left us alone and went to
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: a restaurant and it came on John Kennedy being assassinated
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: on how many hours later, could have.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Been a day later in Rhodesia.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: And I remember picking up the phone and phoning the
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: restaurant asking to speak to my dad and telling my
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: dad dad the disassinated Jonathan Kennedy. And it was a
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: very dark period on the planet, much like when Princess
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: Diana died.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Dark period.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: And then February the following year, three four months later,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: the Beatles popped up on Ed Sullivan and I think
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: without the disassin nation of Johnnt Kennedy, in the sadness
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: that America was still feeling because they loved that dude,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: regardless of his floors. When the Beatles popped up in
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: February ninth, nineteen sixty four and Ed Sullivan, America were
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: given a reason to smile again.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: I want to hold your hand. I was. I was.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: Listening to a really good YouTube videos today about Hey Bulldog,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: and they were talking about the nonsense lyrics, and one
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: of the dudes on the podcast said, well, you know,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: I've always thought that song was John Lennon's talking about
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Paul McCartney and his his feelings about Yoko, you know,
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: some sign of solitude, you know, And maybe he was.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: And I think John Lennon was here for a minute,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: and then five minutes later he was in a different
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: place and he could sing the song with a smile
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: on his face with his best partner.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: But it's such an amazing song, Hey bull Dog. You
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: must like kind have the war rights.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: You have no idea what he's talking about, But I've
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: always believed John Lenner might write nonsense lyrics. But They're
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: never nonsense.
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: Thanks so much for checking out the Booked on Rock podcast.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: If you've just found the podcast, welcome. If you've been listening,
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: thank you so much for your support, and make sure
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: you tell a friend, a family member, share on social
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: media and let people know about Booked on Rock. And
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: if you do like the podcast, make sure you subscribe
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: give a five star review. Wherever you listen to the
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: Booked on Rock podcast, We're on Amazon, Apple, iHeart, Spotify, Spreaker,
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: tune In, and on YouTube music. You can check out
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: to the show. Barry Greenfield, the author of All You
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: Need Is Courage. Let's get into John and Yok a
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: little bit. The opening chapter. It ends with quote intent
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: and challenged by John Paul Jones. Derek Taylor was honest
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: and straight with me. I commenced my journey down the
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: Yellow Brick Road to Oz. In the background lay the
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: wizard who would make things happen, the silent shadow of
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: John Lennon loomed large. You describe a little shiver when
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: John and Yokol walk in the way you described them,
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: almost like they shift the energy of the room. Is
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: that intentional?
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: I am was recording Los Angeles in nineteen seventy three
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: when I walked into a bathroom and Harry Nilson was
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: in the bathroom snowting coke. Harry Neilson then invited me
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: back to studio A.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: I was in the studio b ding my album and
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: for two hours I worked with Harry Nilson, having the
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: most blissful time of my life. He was asking me
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: about bass sounds and whether I thought the volumes a
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: writ He was mixing Son of Dracula for the movie.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: It was just an amazingly normal time, like talking to
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Eric on his podcast. Then in walked Ringo Star two
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: hours two and a half hours later.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: He was drunk, he was disheveled. He had a half
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: full bottle of Jack Daniels in his hand.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: He was with Richard Perry, his producer, who was also
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Nilson's producer in those days.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: During Nilson smilsen Eric, the room changed when Ringo walked in.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: It was I became invisible. Nilson completely ignored me. Everybody
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: ignored me. I go up from the chair next to Harry,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: and I went to sit in the back of the room.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: I sat there's the three of them, talked about the
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: parking lot at RCA, passing the bottle around, snorting coat,
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: the three of them.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: And I became invisible because there was a beatle in
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: the room. I then excused myself and left and went
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: back to being went back to work on my song
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Jack and Jill. I believe that when I Johnny Yoka
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: entered the room, fame has an incredible effect on us.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: So if you.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Think about how famous John Lina was in nineteen sixty eight,
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: just in the same area as him would have an
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: effect on most everyone. Maybe not everyone, but most everyone.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: And that's why they liked being together so much, the
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: four of them. When they had dinner in Abbey Road,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: it was just the fourth and even mele Evans wasn't
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: at the table.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: It's just the four of them.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: And I remember reading about Eric Clapton saying that he
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: was thought of as being god in England.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: In fact, they described him as.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Guard back in the period when he was the guitar
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: player of Note and he said, wherever I went, I was.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Like the king.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: I was loved, but when I went in places with
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: George Harrison, I became invisible because George Harrison was a Beatle.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: So that's why I made John have that effect.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: But as the book progresses, I start to go to
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: the there for dinner to John and Yoko's I started
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: to see a different side of Yoko. John comes in
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: the studio when I'm recording this. He really wants to
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: produce the one cover song I do, which is the
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Dylan song Don't Think Twice. It's all right, He produces
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: it Jump. Paul Jones sits there quietly. He's the master
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: of everything, and he was the reason that the beat
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: As it says in the book, he controlled the Beatles
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: until Rubbert Soul. And that's when Paul mccriney started driving
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: the bus through Revolver, through Pepper and into Abbey Road.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: Because John had given up the reins. He was tired.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: It was enough already, seven days a week, three hundred
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: and sixty five days a year, three and sixty six
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: days in a leap here. They never ever stopped. I
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: just wanted to say that I wrote about John Paul George.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: I didn't write about Ringo because I never had a
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: relationship with Ringo, I just tried to make it about
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: I read biographies about them, you know, I did my research,
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: and so it's as honest as I could have been.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: Yet chapter twelve, I and I to ask you about
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: the title thought is the enemy of flow? A powerful statement?
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: What does that phrase mean to you?
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: When I'm a song and when I'm writing a book,
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: and when I'm talking to you, I try not do
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: anything but be present and let drink in what I'm doing,
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: so if you start thinking too much.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: The last two songs.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: I've written are called The Monarchy and Coronary Audio Disease,
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: and of course that evolved a lot of thought about
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: discussing the monarchy and discussing heart failure. And again, though
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: I don't really try to be too analytical, I try
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: to talk about the emotion of having an inability to
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: breathe and the emotion of seeing what Andrew Munbarton did
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: to the country of England. Stole, stole, stole and did
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: bad things with the young girls.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: So I try not to think. I try to be present,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: and I try.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: To share the heart and not the ego. As Quincy
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: Jones put on the door for we are the world,
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: please leave your egos outside. He didn't say leave your
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: heart outside. He said leave your ego outside. And I've
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: always been a proponent of heart art. And that's what
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: it means by that thought is the enemy of flow.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: Without giving anything away, does Adam get what he thinks
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: he wants by the end of this story.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: The book ends.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Adam does two tours in the book, one with Joan
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Bayaz where he does nine dates, and then his single
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: which is called You Need On You Need His Courage,
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: and the album's When You Need His Courage is successful.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: So he's doing Top of the Pops, he's doing other
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: television shows, and he gets offered a tour with Donovan
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: because Donovan was in the audience at the Marquee when
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: he opened to the New Yard, or is because of
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Jump Paul Jones being a very close friend of Donovan's.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: So he goes on tour with Donovan and the book
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: ends with him playing London, which is the ninth date
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: of the.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Tour, and it goes extremely well.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: So I don't care about giving away stuff because it's
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: a positive book. No one gets shot, no one gets raped,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: no one gets hurt, but it's real.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: And the night before he plays London.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: He has food poisoning and he's playing Bristol and he's
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: throwing up so and he has to do an abbreviated set.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: So there's also there's other things like a motor vehicle
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: accident in the books. His dad has a heart attack
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: in the book. There's all kinds of stuff going on.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: But there could easily be a part two of.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: This book because what happens after his songs do well
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: on the radio, with songs do well on the charts,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: and he it's not really a co headlining bill, but
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: it sort of is because him and Donovan become really close.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: I did a lot of research on Donovan's personality and
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: his likes and dislikes.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: I originally called the book I Need His Courage Part.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: One, and then I took it out because I didn't
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: want to mislead people and get there was never a
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: part two, and I have no idea if there will be.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Music business is either sad or glad, and I wanted
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: to write a glad story.
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: When somebody closes the final page of the book, all
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: you need is courage. What do you want then? Thinking
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: about their own life.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: Take a chance, take a risk, don't be stupid. Listen
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: to your heart, not your ego. Listen to yourself. Be
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: surrounded by positive people who love you and who won't
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: try to.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: Dismantle you so many do.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter whether you're a plumber, whether you're a podcaster, whether.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: You're a writer. Be smart.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: Don't have an arrogance or flippancy about everybody's going to
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: like your work because.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: You like it. Doesn't happen.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: I get bad remarks on my YouTube, I'll be like,
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: what one hundred YouTube videos now with my songs. They
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: all have negative things, really cool things on them, but
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: they don't have mostly cool things.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: They have mostly nice things.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Because most of the world is nice, but the bad
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: ones will seek out, especially artists, and because there's money
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: there and it's easy money for a charlatan. And I
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: just think you cigarette from this book that he's a
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: positive musical adventure. And what's next? And please send me
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: an email. My emails in the book, but I'll share
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: it now. It's Barry Greenfield, b Awry Greenfield at Shaw
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: dot ca.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: And that's send me some love if you want.
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And if you've ever asked yourself, what if I
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: said yes at any point in your life. This book
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: is for you.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Mark, thank you very very much.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: My daughter said the same thing, and that's on the
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: back cover, the what ifs if you would have said yes,
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean that it would have happened that way.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: The song could have flopped. Like Jackie Lomax.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: You don't know.
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: You don't know.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: What's the phrase the road seldom travel or the roadless travel, whatever,
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: the phrase you never know until you walk down the
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: road in any road will get you there.
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: It's titled All you Need is Courage. And people can
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: get the book. We're talking quickly before we started recording.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: Next week it'll be out.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: You can try, but you can.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: The place is going to be the easiest to get
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: is TRIPLEW dot Barry Greenfield Music. That's Bawry Greenfield music
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: dot com.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: And leave me.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: A note there and I'll make sure you get a
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: signed personal copy carry it overnight. I'm not giving the
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: web address out for the business aspects you because I'm
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: not sure what it is by Barry Greenfield Music dot
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: com will have it on the front page. I want
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: people to read this book who love the Sixties and
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: the Beatles, who love music.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: And who love taking a chance.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: It's not a murder mystery if there's no surprises except
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: for the journey, which is one total surprise. I don't
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: know if it would have happened that way. Of course
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: I would like it to have thought it would have.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: But I didn't take the opportunity from John Lennon because
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: it was the wise decision to do. I have never
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: regretted that decision.
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: The Book Down Rock podcast is part of the Boneless
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: Podcasting Network. If you're a fan of classic rock and
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: classic film like I am, go to Boneless dot lovable
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: dot app to find over twenty great shows there. That's
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: Boneless dot lovable dot app. Or just go to book
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: down Rock dot com the Boneless Podcasting Network. It is
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: what you want to be Listen with confidence. Well, yeah,
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: I don't know. If people don't want to get a
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: copy after listening to this interview, I don't know what
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: else we can do. That's it we did. I want
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: to read it again after this.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, Well, you know, Eric, I'm not going to
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: flatter you, you know, because that's kind of I just want
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: to say that this is not easy for me.
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: That's shocking to be on a pocket, to be a guest.
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: You're a performer, you're up on Yeah.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Well that's because I'm performing. Yeah, it's because I've been
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: doing concerts for fifty five sixty years and I'm always
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: I think, I don't know this is true or not,
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: but I've always heard that.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: Don Rickles always threw out before he went on stage
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: to you so scared. But the second you get there,
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: and that's not really true. Five minutes after.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: You get there, which is more accurate, you become Barry Greenfield.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: And Barry Greenfield appears to be.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: Solid and confident, and wow, I just wish I had
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: his sensibility and a low shit.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: But I'm just not that. I'm never sure, and.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: I've developed this persona from working and understanding the phrase
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: all you need is courage.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: That's why I accepted your offer to do the podcast.
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: So happy that I've had you on for two times.
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: So there's one book we haven't done. I'm trying to
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: remember what's the third book.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: That we did with the Wedding Band, right, yeah, which
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: is a really special book.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: I'm about to start writing the screenplay.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: For it is really I really liked the Wedding Singer
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: with Adam Sandler.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: I love the idea of performing weddings.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: So the wedding band are four really close friends, two guys,
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: two women, and they quite successful in San Diego as
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: a wedding band for two years doing cover bands. And
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: the protagonist, who's Basa Hyman who is me is also
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: struggling beginning songwriter. He's twenty five, and he goes to
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: the band one day and says, listen, I'm tired of
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: working in the band because a teller. Do you want
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: to try incorporating some original songs into the set? And
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: the band are all interested in. The bass player who's
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: from Nigeria, also writes original songs, and so they start
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: adding two or three original songs to the wedding band set,
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: which is three sets long, one hour each set, and
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: the crowd likes them, so then they invest two hundred
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: dollars each and make a demo. The demo gets picked
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: up by Tropical Records in the Imaginary Company, and they
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: begin a journey that lasts for nine months that eventually
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: goes on until the end of the book, where Bazahimen
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: is seventy five and he looks back on the wedding
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: band and very proud of it.
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: Love these stories, very Greenfield, thanks again for coming on
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: and look forward to talking with you again.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: Well, God bless you, Eric, and you're a gentleman and
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: a scholar and I've loved every single moment by it.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: That's it. It's in the boox. Yeah,