Latest / WHAT I'VE LEARNT / Welcome To Spring (2022)

Transcript

Welcome To Spring (2022) · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, welcome to the Weatherflight Podcast.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Luke, one of the producers of the show.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: As a producer, I love my work and helping Deborah and our team share so many wonderful stories.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: From food to fashion and art to music, we've got you covered.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: With spring just around the corner, we wanted to highlight some amazing moments of the podcast from June to August.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: So sit back and enjoy.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_04: Jack DeLosa builds businesses.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_04: He's a five times AFR young rich lister, two times best-selling author, and the founder of Australia's largest business coaching and training provider for entrepreneurs, the Entourage.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_04: It has a community of 650,000 members.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_04: Since 2010, the Entourage has helped their members add over$2 billion in value to their businesses.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_04: Under his leadership, the Entourage has been awarded the fourth best place to work in Australia and the top 50 in Australasia by best places to work.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's definitely I definitely have core things that I'm like uber focused on at any given moment.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not so good at dialing down other areas to buy myself space.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's hard, isn't it?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so, and so often my eyes are are far bigger than my stomach.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, like like this year's been crazy because, you know, I was going to the States in March or April, and so for a couple of months, because we're what we've built here in Australia is, you know, in such a great place of market leadership, and we're able to control contribute so much to something people I'm I'm looking to create the same over in the States in the coming years.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was going there for a couple of months.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had, you know, January to March, but I tried to cram probably a year into those three months, you know, including book.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: I I I bought an island earlier in the year, in part inspired by Richard, you know, from being back on Neckham back in 2014.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh core business stuff.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: We were doing big events because we're able to again.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, it it's it's interesting because I'm probably feeling more relaxed than I ever have.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: But but in truth, this year has probably been one of the busiest I've ever had.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I go to like to answer your question around like turning up and down dials, I find that one's ability to hold, whether that's projects, tasks, the humans around them, uh, their own emotions, the emotions of, you know, your capacity to hold and to and to hold with elegance, I think expands over time with practice, and particularly under tension, right?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's similar to similar to building a muscle, in my view, in that the the the longer you're in the game and the more you try and hold and try and do, the better, the better you become at it.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so rather like like like practice.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so rather than turning down, you know, all of that's a sort of really long way of getting to rather than turning down dials, I often try and expand my capability.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_04: And so in in sort of just thinking logistically, yeah.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_04: So if somebody comes to you and they say, look, I have a business, it's it's you know, it's here, I want it scaled to here, I have no idea how to get there, I don't even know if I want it, but how do I, how does in practice the logistics of what you do, other than obviously in the public space, but in terms of what you do in an intimate business strategy model, how how does that work?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's that's super simple.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, building businesses is not hard to do, particularly when you have a core framework, you know, and a lot of being there, done that experience and a network and a community around to help you.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so someone comes to us and they say, you know, we we we we've been running this business, we haven't grown for six years, or it's it's generally speaking, business owners in one of three categories.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm declining, in which case I'm in trouble, I'm plateauing, in which case I've lost my spark and I'm looking for something to re-spark me and the organization, or I'm growing and I'm struggling to keep up and to hold on and to operationalize at the at the rate at which I need to.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: And and here's the thing there there's core fundamentals and methodologies that we take everybody through.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: And at the same time, every business owner is different.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: You've got different stages of life, different risk profiles, different revenue, different profitability, different cash at bank, all that kind of stuff.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: So you take into consideration everything that's going on for the entrepreneur, where do they want to go?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: What are their biggest objectives?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: What are their biggest challenges?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then we essentially audit their company over what we call the six elements.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so every business only does six things.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter whether you're a business-to-business company, business to consumer, online, offline, every business only does six things.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: We go out into the world and we generate interest and attention, right?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: We call that marketing.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: That interest and attention then walks through the door, often metaphorically speaking, we turn that interest and attention into a paid customer, that's sales, right?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: We market it, we sell it.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: What do we then need to do?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: We then need to deliver the product to develop.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: So the third element is product development and delivery.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the three functions that drive the growth.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: But as we're driving growth, particularly when you get to seven figures, eight figures, you need to become more conscious of the internal workings of the business, which is operations, the internal processes, the technology that underpins it all.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: We're marketing it, we're selling it, we're delivering the product, we're operationalizing it, we need to make sure that we're counting and managing the money.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: So the fifth element is finance.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then the sixth element is the element that brings all of these five functions to life, which is people, you know, the culture, the leadership, the management, and the leadership cadences of the organization.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so if I sit down with you for 15 minutes and I ask you a bunch of questions across each of the six elements, we can identify exactly where the business is strong, exactly where it's weak, exactly where you're spending your time, exactly what's holding you back, and the exact core pieces of work that need to occur over the next 12 months to minimize and mitigate the challenges and to actualize the opportunities that exist inside any given business.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: And if somebody's been going along in a business without the input of seriously good coaches and advisors that are coming in with me and they're down and experience, then in every business there are serious challenges that can be relatively easily unlocked and seriously up serious opportunities that can be relatively easily realized with a little bit of strategic input and guidance.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, it comes from the heart and the mind of the entrepreneur, auditing the company, determining where they want to go.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: And once you determine all of those things, building a 12-month roadmap to move the company forward is relatively easy.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_04: Well, to be honest, it sounds very inspirational.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm I'm I'm also interested because it's very about structure, discipline, and yet there's an organic element to it as well, which because clearly it's not just something you read in a book, because there's so many books on business and strategy, you know, structure and strategy.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_04: And but the real question I have also for you is do you think business has changed?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_04: Do you think people are rethinking, which we know, how they want to work?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_04: And therefore, how does that feed what you've just outlined?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_04: Has that have you noticed that transition?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_04: Is there a transformation?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, we've talked about the great resignation, but really that's just a morphing of a, it's like the industrial revolution, in my opinion.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_04: There's a there's such a transformation in the way that, you know, like I know people who are partners of law firms, who I know very closely, um, who, you know, people are thinking, you know, how do we want to work?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_04: How do we want to live?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_04: How do we want to do our business?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_04: Do you think it's opening doors?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_04: Do you think it's changing the way we do business?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_04: And how does it feed what you've just outlined?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I think that like if you use remote work as an example, working remotely was a rising tide globally.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: What I think COVID did is accelerated us 15 where remote work would have been 15 years from now, that's where we are today because COVID accelerated it so much.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so businesses need to uh consider to what degree do to what degree does this benefit and our people benefit from a more remote working arrangement.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Now, for some businesses, it's going to make complete sense for them to work remotely 100% of the time, and you're seeing that in some companies.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: For some businesses, it makes no sense for anybody to work remotely any percent of the time, just by virtue of the business model.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: And for in some companies, a hybrid works best.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so, again, it's dependent on the business, the industry, the consumer, the business model, all of that kind of stuff.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: But yes, there are always really fast changes occurring in the business world.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, we spoke about marketing before.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: Marketing is an area that pretty much changes, you know, fundamentally, say quarterly these days, which is like every three seconds, right?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: Quarterly, you know, and so if you've got marketing teams and marketing budgets, and you're across 12 different platforms and there's fundamental changes quarterly, that's that's a rapid iteration, period.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so what however when a business has the foundations and fundamentals in place, meaning, you know, I'm I'm I'm uh I've I've got a marketing journey, I've got a sales process, I've got a good product that we're delivering on well, I've got a team, there's KPIs, there's scoreboards to demonstrate whether we're performing or not, we're measuring and managing the money, you know, we're we're doing the foundations and the fundamentals.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: When you're doing that well, change becomes a lot easier.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's when you're rudderless and you don't have a structurally sound company, that's when change can pull you in that direction, and then something changes three months later, and now you're getting pulled in that direction, and it's this wild kind of organizational whiplash.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: That shouldn't occur in any company because what you want to do is you want to build a structurally sound organization that can change and iterate, and then as changes arise, you're able to address them relatively calmly.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_04: So, really, what you're saying is if you think of it sort of like in a ship context, you need the anchors in place, but you have to be able to pick them up and move if you need to, but you need those anchors to fundamentally be able to shift effectively without things just going A-WOL.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_04: Although there are some companies that clearly, you know, have been impacted beyond that capacity.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I'd say, I'd say it's even more fundamental than the anchors.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: You need to have a strong ship.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have a strong ship, your your chances of navigating uncharted and stormy waters are far greater than if than if your ship's got holes at the bottom, which most businesses do, because we're not yet focused on this on on building structure around the fundamentals.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you know that saying, dance as if nobody's watching.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I don't know if I could actually dance with anyone watching, but the truth of the matter is my experience at a dance class with Daniel Jamie, who is going to join me on the What I've Learned podcast in a few moments, has really been cathartic and therapeutic.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_04: You know, he created Baylor as a result of a drastic change in his life.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_04: He was coming from the other side of the world with no expectations, no safety net, no English, or people who could help him find his way on the side of the planet.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_04: He was coming from Brazil and Colombia, and the truth is he'd been dancing there since he was 14, but he had to find a way to communicate when he got here, and Baylor became the only way that he could with people.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_04: He could express his passion, personality, and the best way to share what he loves most, which is dance and fitness.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm really happy that he's joining me on the podcast.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_04: He's also taking me on my own personal journey, giving me some private training and teaching me about how to actually move, not quite like JLo in her new documentary, but certainly aiming for the stars, I might say.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_04: So, welcome to the What I've Learned podcast and so thrilled to have Daniel join me to have a chat about dance fitness and looking after both body and soul.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: The best thing I look forward to every week is baila because, like you said, I feel free.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like this stress goes away.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone, everything, the whole world goes away, and I'm just so immersed into the whole class and the music that it makes me feel like, you know.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I was actually watching this week the JLo documentary.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if you've watched it yet.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, it is so inspiring.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_04: But one of the things that, you know, obviously she dances nonstop and it's it's just beautiful and it's Latino and it's very, but also her discipline is is really impressive.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's the other thing that you often refer to.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_04: And I know that you will say this to me as my now trainer, who is basically trying to get me in shape in many ways as I prepare for a number of things coming up in my life.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_04: But I think one of the things that you talk about is the discipline.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_04: And so one of the things with dance is learning certain um structures and making sure that you actually apply them and also being disciplined and showing up even when you're exhausted and can't be bothered.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_04: And it's really challenging in this world, particularly.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_04: And I think post-COVID, there's a sort of a malaise, there's a bit of a, you know, people are struggling still, I find, to get that.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_04: And that's one thing I know that you're very big on.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I know how frustrating it can be with some of your clients like me at times because I'm like, because I'm like, I'm busy, I'm working, I've got stuff.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_04: But but to that end, you and I are going on a personal journey of health and well-being, and you are also doing this with a lot of other people.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_04: What are some of the big tips that you have for people who are feeling that, you know, that, you know, struggle?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Struggle.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the first thing I always say to them, especially we want to just refer to fitness, let's wait.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say, when they come to me as a fitness consultant, you know, they want me to train them, is what is your purpose, you know, come being here.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then most people don't know.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: They just they say, I want to lose weight, I want to be active, I want to, you know, heal this or that.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: In reality, they they they're doing that, and then where they start showing the lack of discipline is when they don't know why they're there.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then the reason behind that is you gotta have that why is your drive.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: But people that find the why and then they start giving up on the way is because they have no idea what is the feeling they wanna feel when they achieve what they want.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: So success talks about the difference between uh tangible goal, right, which is an achievement itself, and success itself, which is a feeling.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: So success itself equals feeling, right?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: So when you lose that kind of discipline and then focus on what is it that you want to achieve, then you start breaking up that discipline and that you know, focus on what you want to achieve.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I always say to them, you know, what is it that you want to feel when you come here, you know?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then some people say I want to feel strong.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Other people want to say, I want to feel relaxed, I want to feel free, you know, I want to feel, I don't know, I can do this, right?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Self-confidence.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's okay, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to, every time you want to feel that, you feel, I'm looking forward to coming to train with Daniel because I know what I'm gonna feel.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then people say, Oh my god, uh, I can believe I can do this, you know, now, you know, so they forget where they started, yeah.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And my my my my job is very um fulfilling because the way I do it is not the way that other people do it.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I go I work through mindset, right?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the mindset is the root of a human being, right?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever you believe in, right, is what your destiny is gonna be, right?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Anything, anything.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Beliefs are are made, if you want to know, by the time of six years old, right?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: So everything that you learned was based on your your journey back in your childhood, right?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then when something is not feeling right in your life, right, is because that belief that you got you gained when you were little is not serving you anymore.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's very true.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_04: And in fact, you know, the concept of manifesting, manifesting a particular outcome.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_04: I think there's some truth to that, that notion of, and that's you and I talk about that, and I've heard you talk about that in class, you know, when you do your classes.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you you actually encourage people to engage.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_04: And and and it's really warming.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me, I'm sure you come across some people in your your private training, but also just even you see those that come to dance class, some who are very lonely, some who are really dealing with some really tough stuff, like really personal things.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_04: How do you navigate that?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_04: And and and what have you learned from those people?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, uh I've learned so much.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: I imagine I've been doing this since I was 14, right?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the most inspiring um experiences I've ever had in my career is to see what's the impact you're causing on people leaving your passion.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: One day I was back in Colombia when I, you know, went back and moved back to Colombia, and I saw this person, this woman, was coming to my class, but she was very quiet at the back and she was quite reserved, you know, it was quite close, but she used to always come.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: And she didn't come, you know, in like a week or so, you know.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know, I noticed that she didn't come.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then one day she came back, and the class was packed of people, packed.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And she at the end, she was waiting for everyone to leave at the end of the class, and then she came to me, and I was very young still back then.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then she comes to me and says, Can I can I talk to you?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, of course, you can.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and she said, Good, you know, I said, Hey, yeah, I just want to say that I love your class.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Oh, thank you.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I also wanted to tell you that you saved my life today.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What do you mean?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, because of your class, I'm still here.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I felt like yeah, you know, I had saved someone just by being what I was doing.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't I was impacting her life, and she was going to commit suicide that day.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: That's incredible, Daniel.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think she was lost.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and nothing would was causing any impact on her, you know.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And when she said that, I was like, Oh, come on, what are you talking about?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, life is so beautiful, you know.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you got so much to you.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Look, look at this.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: How do you feel when you come here?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel so alive, feel so connected, so happy, you know, and you make it so easy and so accessible for everyone, and you're like having the best party, no one is judging you.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel free, yeah, free on my head.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_04: You know, that's a very powerful story because it's actually, I can imagine, like, I mean, we do have all of the medications and all the things that deal with that, but some I do definitely see that we all know that being physically active is it helps with your mental health.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_04: But that story just shows that it's it's not just about fixing your mental health, it's also about feeling part of something, and that's what you're talking about.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: People want to belong to a community, to a tribe.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and then like that, I had so many stories.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, when I came to Australia, for example, I bumped into one of my clients, which I think you know her.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Her name is Olivia Curtin.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you know her.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: She she's part of the um, she's actually one in a million.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's called her one in a million.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: She's got a syndrome that's called William syndrome, and it's a chromosome disease, right?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: So she is got a very weak cardiovascular system, you know, there is no strength, no coordinate, no coordination, no focus, nothing.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: And she came one day to one of my classes in Glen Iris, and that was an inspiring you know story, where she was extremely not part, feeling part of this mainstream community.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: And she started coming to my classes.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: She could not, she had a career, she always had a career bringing her.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the doctor said, I don't know what you're doing, but whatever you're doing, keep doing it because you're getting better.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then she said, I would say, Wow, what do you mean?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you your heart is a lot stronger, and you you have developed this kind of aura, you know, kind of energy around you that you actually feel more yourself, you know what I mean?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because back then she was very out of, you know, like you know, out of sync.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Out of sync.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she was very impacted by the syndrome, you know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: that that that that balance at whatever phase or stage of life or whatever it is you're suffering that's in a sense what you advocate and that is a you know obviously an extreme example of of that sort of sinking and rebalancing exactly it shows what can be it was really really a like a life changing experience she has been coming to my classes for uh at least 11 years now and back then you couldn't not have a conversation with her yeah and now she's feeling part of a main community because she belongs to the our community you know I love that I mean and I've seen her and I think that's just such a a great example of what we need to do is we need to lift each other up and I think Daniel you actually really work hard to do that in our community I I I don't work hard I just I just I am I just you do what you love I know but it is you know that's how I think you impact people being you know very full potential of yourself and it doesn't feel tiring it just feels like you want more you want to inspire more people you want to just impact more people like that and then make them feel that they're part of a community and like we said just said my mental health improves so much like you know I'm happy well Madonna King is author of a new book called L Platers How to Support Your Teen Daughter on the Road to Adulthood.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_04: She's an Australian journalist author and media commentator and from 2006 until 2011 King presented Mornings on ABC Radio Brisbane.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_04: Well from social media Snapchat surgery and school formals her new book is a fascinating insight into the challenges facing a modern day teenager and I know I mean I have three children myself and I also am surrounded by a lot of um parents obviously and I've seen the the challenges and the transition for a lot of people particularly these girls who just as you say there's somehow there seems a sense of isolation that develops I mean referring to the 14 year old yes but the 17 year old which is your present book and focus the L Platers book is really interesting because I think we're not as prepared for what because they're about to go out into the big world because they're on the cusp and often there's that sort of rite of passage, the gap here.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_04: Well for example most of them are doing it at 20 now I know my son certainly is because obviously there was almost like a hiatus of two years where they got lost but that's a COVID related issue.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_04: But it probably exaggerates what is an already complex transitional time.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah what a clever question.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_05: I think that's right and I think there's two causes.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_05: University staff are saying they're seeing 18 year olds act more like 15 year olds.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_05: And the reason is two things.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_05: One is as you said COVID think of what you did when you were 16.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_05: Think of the mistakes you made the misjudgments and our children have not been allowed to do that because uncertainty has killed so many of those opportunities from things they would have to navigate at parties to friendship to a whole lot of stuff even school excursions and so they they haven't been able to practice being an adult that's the first thing.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_05: The second thing I think is school has become harder more academic more competitive particularly private and independent schools are wanting to top those league tables.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_05: And as a result of that our children's anxiety is so strong that they that is their focus.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_05: They're giving up everything from part-time jobs to sport to friendships.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_05: Some have got the ATAR figure, their ranking figure painted on the ceiling of their bedroom wall and they've narrowed their life to this one number that you and I know will not dictate their success.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I often say that you know to to various you know kids that I come across it it just doesn't define you.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_04: Now why have we got a system that is set up I mean it is really toxic to have a system that is set up with expectation that almost is impossible to meet.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_04: And as you say corrals these kids into this sort of we didn't even have that.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_04: I mean it was really you know yes you wanted to do well but it wasn't all defining for some reason the system has become very and it paralyses these kids so they're either as you say sort of stuck I mean separate to COVID even just before COVID.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah I think that's right.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_05: I think I like to think that after this research and I I sought the counsel of 1000 girls aged 16, 17 and 18, that there is this new disease of comparison and they don't compare themselves in a sense they wish their peers the best but they are brutal in their own self-judgment.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_05: So even at the age of 10 I found that girls were deciding not to do science in high school if they got six out of 10 and their friends got nine out of 10, they decided I'm not a science girl.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_05: Likewise I think when they're 15 and 16 their social media is just wallpaper comparison with everything from clothes to body shape to hair colour to eyes and as a result of that they are always going to compare upwards richer, thinner prettier and that has had a huge impact on our girls.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_04: And tell me do you think this is new?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_04: There was always an element of that in fact I recently caught up with some old school friends and we meet regularly and oh we were laughing and you know about the things that you think matter at that time.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_04: But my point is do you think it's it's changed or do you think it's always been there it's just an exaggerated form now.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_05: It's absolutely changed.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_05: Well and it's exaggerated.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_05: If you just think if I can give you one example if you're driving your 14 or 15 year old to school tomorrow morning you might see a billboard of a beautiful woman dressed scantily at the beach you can say to your daughter that's fake.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_05: That's not a real picture that's not a real real beach and she will understand that.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_05: But now on social media just let me give you the example of dark ads where our children are receiving ads based on what their searches are, their digital traces but they only appear for a second and they disappear.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_05: So you don't know what your daughter's seeing you don't know what your son's seeing university researchers said to me in L platers they can't even capture these ads to research them.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_05: And what my daughter is getting is different from what your son is getting it's so tailored to their individual searching.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_05: So how can we talk to our children about that?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_05: How can we give them the critical thinking skills?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_05: And I think one girl said to me of course we know it's fake.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_05: We're not dumb we know it's fake but when it's there every time you turn on your phone it's really hard not to compare yourself.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_05: One school principal said to me what she's saying is almost a generational difference between an 18 year old and a 10 year old that the world has changed so much in those eight years that a big sister might almost be a generation older than her 10 year old sister.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_04: And when you just think of the consequences of that well I can observe that myself I can see that with certain gaps the difference between let's say my 27 year old and some of the 18 year olds is quite dramatic in terms of what their exposure is.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_04: In particular I think what concerns me and I mean I know you you actually in your book you refer to you know imagine a thousand teen girls in one room and you ask one question what's the biggest challenge you face and 700 of them give the same answer my mental health there's a lot of you know it's quite disturbing but it's not surprising when you see how inundated they are by things that you've just referenced.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_05: In particular I suppose the the issues of body image which I've talked on this podcast a lot about with various models and people in the industry the pressure on these girls which comes over social media to be thin and the inspiration and as you say the dark web where there's sort of flashes or there's there's pop-ups if you like how do we how do we equip them because it's almost so normalized you and I never had that I mean we didn't have any of those well I was even thinking you know I'd never heard of these two forms of disordered eating like eating disorders one called chewing and spitting where girls are chewing something and then getting rid of it and the other is orthorexia which may start with a green smoothie and then they only put into their mouths something that's pure so they have no sugar, preservatives, wheat, gluten and it goes they narrow and narrow.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_05: I'd never heard of that.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_05: And I think it's a really difficult space for parents too because even when you say your 27 year old son, I was talking to someone recently who has a child about the same age.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_05: It's actually a girl she's actually 27 year old girl yeah okay her speech is slower and better than someone who may be seven or eight years younger because they're used to just writing in acronyms um texting and they speak so fast because that's their language that if you line up a 27 year old and an 18 year old, you can actually see when they talk, when they communicate the influence of that smartphone.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_04: So it's sort of bite size isn't it it's everything's in bite size in terms of communication.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_04: But I think the other thing is there's also then this sort of huge and whether this is relevant or not there's a huge also overlay of well there's a lot of people on ADHD medication there's a lot of these young girls being put on you know a whole raft of things to sort of tame their brain some of which is very valid and important because obviously there are some that need it.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_04: But I wonder if the like I don't know if you are somebody who's on your phone a lot, I'm on it reasonably, but obviously I'm a mature woman and so are you.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_04: But can you imagine what that's doing to your brain if it's incessant and it's constant and it's distracting from absolutely everything.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_05: And the girls know that I asked the 1000 of them how often are you on your mobile phone and don't count school because some may use it in class.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_05: So during the week it's an average of three hours this is after school on the weekend it's more and I said so describe your relationship with it.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_05: And they said toxic obsessive unkind horrible they all had these adjectives to describe their relationship but the pull the lure of it was so strong they couldn't quite give it up and I remember one principal in Adelaide said to me if they don't touch it for the first 10 minutes of the morning it actually gets them in a better frame because they're not reaching and looking for it straight away.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_05: But we I've found in this that we even probably have to teach them that at 17 because and I know in my family my eldest lives away at a university college so last year we practiced allowing her to have the phone in her room.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_05: Seems ridiculous at 17 but I knew at college it would always be in her room because that's all she has.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_05: And so we went bit by bit to ensure that that she wasn't just having it to the last minute and then picking it up the next morning.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_05: And I think we've handheld our children particularly in schools perhaps to the point where they are graduating and I suspect boys too without those skills that you and I had and I don't just mean judgment skills I mean things like how to get a tax file number having done a first day course being enrolled to vote having not what superannuation is.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_05: I spoke to girls who were 17 who had never caught public transport.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_05: And when I spoke to university tutors about how they could see the difference between those girls they thought would cope as 18 year olds and those who would struggle they said they could see it the moment they walked in and it was the amount of confidence that they held within themselves.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_05: And I went home thinking that's a really good lesson for me.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_05: You know we kind of sometimes think things like that aren't tested so they can develop those eventually and I think those soft skills of confidence and teamwork and kindness and being able to communicate what you and I are doing are the things that actually determine how far you go in life, aren't they?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_05: Not what you get on a physics exam.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_04: Dr Marie Balancig is a senior research officer at the Hudson Institute of Medical Research in Melbourne.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_04: Her team at the Hudson performs cutting edge science informed by patients and clinicians to improve the outcome and diagnosis for women with ovarian cancer.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my goodness so I have been extremely lucky to um form quite close relationships with the called out consumers or um women with ovarian cancer.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_03: And over the years um I reckon for me it's really been the hardest part of being a researcher I've always tried to be a very positive person because I know the work that I'm doing is going to change things for women.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: But ovarian cancer has a very very poor survival rate and having worked in their timeframe of you know the last 13 years meeting women who have less than five years and live that I've lost people that I call my friends.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_03: I guess maybe when you first meet a patient because there is no early detection if they'll come in to have surgery to check whether they have the disease and at that time you need to approach them and say well if we find something are we able to take returse or research and everything and I said this before a hundred percent of the time there's women they're thinking I don't know if I could not care a hundred percent of the time take returns.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: Now the work that we do might not benefit them um but it will benefit future generations of women and to have that insight and to have that I guess what is the word that I'm looking for that that trust selflessness.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah selflessness yeah yeah you know I put other women in front of you know what I'm going on or what's going through what I'm going through at the moment when I'm thinking of future generations like I was saying when I get all about me you know I've got a few and terrible I'm gonna lie down on the ground or whatever but these women are going in there thinking well this might not help me but this will help future generations of women is incredible and that happens a hundred percent of the time with all the women that we've met over the years from as I said it's really hard to have these women that advocate for you knowing that what I'm doing might not help them.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah it does make trial I find that really hard um and they're they're they're encouraging you know I've got one amazing um advocate Leanne Flynn you've probably heard she's featured in the Witchery White Shirt campaigns over the years we actually met at um a witchery white shirt campaign breakfast maybe about five years ago now um and we formed a friendship she's going through her own journey um and we've always been so positive about the work that I'm doing knowing that you know early or some of the treatment that I'm working on at the moment I'm trying to be able to help her because it would take time to get implemented but she's always like you know really positive about it.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah it's um they're they're a real motivation and inspiration for the work.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_04: Well I can see and also you know science often people think of people in a laboratory you know as a scientist as a researcher but I think what you've pointed out very appropriately is that it is very human and it is very uh connected and and the relationships that you form and also the trust that people have to have in you to say I know the greater picture and I know what is up ahead and what you're trying to do and I'm prepared in a courageous and brave way to contribute to that journey you develop these relationships that require enormous emotional giving on both sides.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_04: So you know it's not arm's length really is it that that's not but most scientists are very socially awkward so well that is not you that is not my experience of you at all you don't seem so socially or you seem very very socially capable but um but also very articulate in the way that you've outlined and made I suppose the science of what you're trying to do accessible and hopefully more comprehensible for our listeners.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean are you hoping that you'll continue in this space is that what you're thinking oh no I'm hoping to become unemployed I'm hoping that honestly or move to another disease or something like that.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like it would be amazing if there was no need for ovarian cancer research because we had changed the land scarce entirely.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: So you know Australian researchers were responsible for developing the cervical cancer and now we hardly hear about cervic cancer.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm kind of hoping that we can move into I can move into that space.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_04: Well I hope so too and I hope that whatever space you move into that I'm sure you'll make a major contribution if you had as you have in this space and I hear from your colleagues and from other people that work with you that you know you're you're very diligent and you're very committed and we need incredible women like yourself.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I know you're a mother as well so I know you juggle family and work life and you seem to do that pretty well do you how do you find that are you finding that manageable and I would say that the it it's really um it's there's a lot of guilt.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't know as a mother I think there's just a lot of guilt that comes with it um because yeah I I try to I time block my time so I try to have a clear distinction between work and between work.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: And then it's just quite hard to um you know work during the day I've got the time that my children away the bathroom sleeve and do that whole rigmarole and then switch back on to work that you know you just have to set up a good routine and and the way it works.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: I guess as your children grow a little bit older and less sort of dependent on you.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_04: Look I think that's true.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_04: And as somebody who has older children um if nothing else I I feel greatly supported by my children.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_04: They understand why I work and my contribution and I think you'll find that as your children get older the same thing happens because actually being a working mother is sort of the best of both worlds and the guilt really is something that unfortunately has been embedded in our culture.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: But really you know often I don't think the men feel guilty most of them and they shouldn't and why should we like you're doing something so valuable and and I think that's part of that self-care approach of making sure that we tend to our health needs get our tests and also be kind and not to ourselves you know and so I think that's that's the challenge for working women but you certainly seem to be navigating it very well I think you touched on it as well like um saying about work ethic you know my parents have always worked um you know I don't recall her having a day off work um and they sort of instilled that really good work ethic in me and my future and that's why we work the way that we do work and I'm hoping that my children can see you know what I'm not doing this job because it's just the job that gives me money.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm doing this job because I actually love what I do and I love going into work and I hope to share that with them you know so that in the future they find something that you know isn't a job per se.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's something that they love doing and you know you get paid as a bonus sort of thing.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_04: I feel very similarly and I think we share that.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_04: And it certainly gives you a great sense of purpose too and for your children to see that and that that's something that is not something you should feel guilty about but something you should be proud of because I think it's it's very important work for listening the What I've learned podcast comes out every Tuesday for more fantastic stories from amazing guests.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Check out the What I've learned Instagram for more updates.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: And as Deb would say stay tuned kind and curious