Transcript

Con Air · Citizen Frame

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Well-known and often lamented facts of penal lore.
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What I'm wondering is why you have any opinion about it at all.
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Cyrus, this is your barbecue, man, and it tastes good. But I was just saying to Mr.
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Dog over here that if it was my barbecue, I'd wait for that old jumbo jet in
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the sky before I start killing the only leverage.
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Shut the fuck up. Don't you want to get high and get laid?
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Shit. Oh, fuck this. Put the gun down.
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Put the gun down, Nathan.
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Pose right. We're going to plan B. Going to get a refueling truck and tractor.
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So get back there and dig the plane out. Hi, folks. Welcome back to another
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exciting episode of Citizen's Frame.
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I'm your charming, charming host, Kieran.
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And we just wrapped up an exciting shark month and did quite well.
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So we thank you for all the downloads and all the listeners who appreciated
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our creature feature retrospective.
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And we are going to be jumping into Final Destinations coming here soon.
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I think we keep delaying it but that's because we're unorganized but we wanted
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to pepper some action films I think,
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just because we're coming up to Halloween month and we got Final Destinations
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to do and then we just did Shark Month which is primarily horror films so we gotta break you know.
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Break the cycle there. Shake things up a bit. Yeah, so we always talk about 80s.
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We always talk about our 80s cheese, and I love my 80s cheese.
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But kind of like music, you had
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the 80s hairband, rock, which was kind of cheese, but good, but cheese.
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And then 90s, you got good music, but it became a little darker,
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a little edgier. It's kind of what happened with action films.
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We had Chuck Norris. We had the Cobras.
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We have the Van Damme's, the Steven Seagal's, who now seem to transition to
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where you had, and not to take away from Van Damme and the gang,
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they're good at what they do, but the cast and the budgets skyrocketed.
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You had distinguished Oscar-nominated or if not Oscar-winning actors taken on the roles.
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And then you quadrupled the budget. Stunts became more advanced.
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And you had a little boy called Jerry Bruckheimer. Another boy called Joel Silver
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who kind of catapulted action to the new era.
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And it wasn't cheese anymore. there's more flair more like I don't know,
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upscale flair well I would say
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upscale cheese I wouldn't say cheese
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at all I know there is definitely but that's not me that's me saying that affectionately
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you know but there's this film we're about to do this is a pure 90's cheese
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fest but I absolutely love it at the same time but I do agree that yes definitely
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things were in terms of budget,
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bigger actors attracted, that sort of thing. Yeah.
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I don't call it cheese. The reason I say I don't call it cheese is because of
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the reasons we just mentioned.
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Back in the 80s, you're limited to what you can do, especially with budgets.
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And the advance in technology when it comes to stunts.
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I mean, Jesus, there are guns for hire in the 80s, some of these directors.
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We talked about that with Cobra.
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I enjoyed the fucking film. It was terrible.
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But you even mentioned it was A-team shooting. So you have a guy jumping in
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the air before the explosion even happens, and they didn't have time to do a
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second take or they couldn't afford to do a second take.
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Well, this is more crafted.
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This is more take another shot from different angles.
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And that's what you got from the Bruckheimer and Silver.
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I hate saying it. I don't like saying the word because I do like my cheese,
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but there's a lot more professionalism behind the lens.
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Yeah, I mean, it's much more polished. I would certainly agree with that.
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But that's why it's not cheese.
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You're confusing cheese with story.
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I think that's the difference. The story here is crazy, but that doesn't make it cheese.
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It's the execution that makes a film cheesy.
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I think there are different brands of cheese, certainly, in terms of a cheese fest.
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You know it takes different types of cheese including back in the 80s you know
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you had you know the dodgy acting.
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Stunts the A team type shootouts and stuff
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but I would say here certainly at least with Conor this is a team in many parts
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but on a big budget if that makes sense no I completely disagree I'm much more
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slickly done well your cheese is Swiss because your theory is full of holes No,
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no, my cheese is very refined.
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No, you're not getting the definition of cheese, but that's all right. That's my definition.
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You're simple. No, you're a fucking knobhead.
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Wow. I make a nice little banter, good joke, trying to be professional,
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and you attack me? I would never do that to you.
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I would never do that to you. No, you do it to me every week,
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every day, practically on text, and across different forms of media.
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But anyway, I can take it.
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You know, I'm a bit like Cameron Poe, actually. You know what I mean? I just get on with it.
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No, you're not even close to Cameron Poe. You're the guy in the dress.
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You're fucking. You're Sally Can't Dance. Sally Can't Dance is great.
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All right. Yeah, we're here to talk Amistad. What?
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Amistad, no. It's a joke. We're here to talk Con Air. Con Air.
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We got our boy behind the helm, Simon West. I like Simon West.
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Kind of disappeared. There's a lot of TV now. But he's got a pretty good track
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record. The original Tomb Raider. The Expendables 2, which is kind of the best one. The Mechanic.
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A cool little Chinese film he did called Skyfire. It's a volcano film.
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It's pretty good. You got to check it out.
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With Jason Isaac is in it. A new retelling of When a Stranger Calls.
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Actually pretty fair. And The General's Daughter. very
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dark edgy crime thriller set in the military base
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with john devolta yeah well this film big budget 75 million made 225 worldwide
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it's beloved everyone likes it i love it we all like our con air we're watching
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again i'm gonna be honest with you it dropped some pegs for me and we'll see
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why as we dig a little deeper,
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Before we start, I want to give a little shout-out to Phil Swartz. He's an effects man.
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He was on the set. The poor man was killed. That's right. On the set by a plane falling on him. Yeah.
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Some poor guy. And so give him a little shout-out there. Go to show you.
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And there's another one who was killed on another Bruckheimer set.
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But it's what it is. and
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uh let's dive into it the film was actually dedicated to
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him as well yeah of course it should be yeah jerry
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brockheimer let's start with him yeah fucking love jerry brockheimer fucking
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love jerry brockheimer there's two guys called don
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simpson and jerry brockheimer they kind of started out in the early early 80s
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i want to say they did 48 hours i think they did but their claim to fame was
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two big hits which would have been bevelies cop and flash dance yeah that kind
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of cat top gun All three of those came out around the same time.
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And if you look at Top Gun, and if you look at Belly O's Cop 2,
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and then if you look at Days of Thunder, you can see the transition of the action film,
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getting a little more smarter, a little more quicker, edgier cameras.
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They worked with Tony Scott a lot, who was the king of that.
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And then eventually Michael Bay would take the reins over.
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Apparently um tony scott was they actually wanted tony
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scott to direct this he was their first choice and also you
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mentioned jason isaacs apparently he was a choice
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for one of the main roles either cameron poe or possibly sarah savaris i would
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have to double check that well there you go so yeah so don simpson passed and
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so it's just brookheimer this is the first film which is just the Bruckheimer banner,
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not the Simpsons and Bruckheimer. Yeah.
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The last film that would be would be The Rock. And so...
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I love Bruckheimer. And I always ask myself this question, and I'll stick by
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it. Colin Ayer is well-received and loved.
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So is The Rock. So is Face Out. You know, all these action films, Demolition Man.
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But yet, Michael Bay gets pissed off. And I never understood that because Michael
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Bay just went in the same direction as some of the directors I mentioned,
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including God the Rest of Saul, Tony Scott, one of my favorites.
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And he just took the helms. and he's a wonderful action director.
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Guy knows how to take a shot.
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But I never understood why Conair gets all these praise by everybody,
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but people who like Conair don't like Michael Bay.
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And it doesn't make any sense to me because Michael Bay is by far underrated.
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I don't think Transformers help him. What about McG?
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I think, well, just go back a bit. I think Michael Bay has a bit of a bad reputation,
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but to be honest, I have nothing against him personally.
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His films maybe wouldn't be
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my you know first choice but you
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know of none against him what but what about mcgee what do you think of him
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in terms of action fuck mcgee yeah the guy who did fucking charlie's angels
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yeah well he he would be along that a similar type banner no he's not even on the not even near yeah.
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These guys. Not even, he's a poor man's version of the guys we just mentioned.
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Okay. Not even close. And that's why he doesn't work.
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Yeah. I don't think he works anymore, does he? I don't know.
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I honestly don't know. He might be producing. I don't know.
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I know. Didn't he do one of the, didn't he do Terminator Salvation?
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He directed it. He did Salvation, I believe.
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Yeah. Yeah. I like that one though. I did like it. Yeah. I think it's underrated.
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There's flashes of hope with him, but then he just kind of fell flat.
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Yeah. Yeah, but no, we got Simon West, Tony Scott, Michael Bay.
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You had Renee Harlan, and we've talked to him quite a bit here recently.
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You had these just wonderful directors, and Catherine Bigelow would be up there
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as well, finding their nets through these kind of action films. Paul Verhoeven as well.
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Paul Verhoeven, Stuart Baird, who went on. You had Andrew Davis, who did The Fugitive.
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You had Stuart Baird, who was an editor, who went on to do a wonderful film
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called The Executive Decision. Yes. And the sequel to A Fugitive,
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a lot of people didn't see it.
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I liked it. Called U.S. Marshals. Yeah. Tommy Lee Jones.
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Yeah. Tommy Lee Jones, Wesley Stimes, Robert Downey Jr.
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But my point is that he had A-listers. Everything was A-listers now.
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And so this has been the longest since forever. But what the fuck?
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I don't care. We haven't talked about 90s action. So we got a lot to bring.
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Yeah. A lot of ice to bring.
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I mean, with 90s action for me, it's definitely, as we just basically stated
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there was more money pumped into it essentially,
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but there's still a certain, you know the 80s is like the prototype for the 90s action,
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because this here, Connor is basically a remake in terms of all the beats of
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Die Hard, but with a plane instead of a skyscraper,
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I do not see that at all Oh no, definitely No, it's not, Die Hard is In terms
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of the story, this is Die Hard but with a big plane instead of a big skyscraper.
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No, seriously, I genuinely would say that. That's okay.
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You don't know anything about Korea. What are you talking about?
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There's a reluctant hero.
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No, okay, you can say that about any film. Not really.
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No, this is very similar. No, this has nothing on top. No, this was not.
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They weren't going anywhere. Reluctant hero on the inside.
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And, you know, you're communicating with the cop and stuff. And then the big
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sort of showdown and stuff, you know, in the streets as opposed to,
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you know, in the plane or the skyscraper, there's definitely similarities.
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Let's jump into this before Trevor says anything more stupid.
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Not stupid at all. Go ahead. Yep.
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Okay. We got Nicholas Cage, John Cusack, John Malkovich, Cole Meany,
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McKelty Williamson, Nick Chilin, Vig Rames, Dave Chappelle, Ring Tickleton,
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Steve Buscemi, Danny Trejo,
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MC Ganey, Monica Parder, and Rinaldi Santiago, who plays Trevor's favorite character,
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Sally Can't Dance. Oh, yes.
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These people mix up a great bunch of characters called Poe, Agent Larkin,
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Cyrus, Malloy, Odell, Bedford, Diamond Dog, Pinball, Bishop,
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Garland Green, Johnny 23, Swamp Thing, Trisha, and Sally Can't Dance.
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I feel like we're talking about Mad Max characters again.
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Yeah, I mean, it is a great cast. There's your whole, I mean,
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it's got a pretty fun cast here.
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You can't fault it. This is John Cusack's first big outing as an action kind
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of lead. and then you've got John Malkovich.
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Well he said this role kind of categorized him a bit but I don't think it did.
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He did a movie called In the Line of Fire.
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With Clint but that one was a little more darker a little more real.
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John Malkovich to me is a very serious actor and he sort of went outside the
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box with this and good on him.
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I mean he's hamming it up no end and it's just great fun I would say since John
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Milkovich took this role he admits it yeah he does a lot of camp now yeah,
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you look at his catalog a lot of camp yeah where before he did this film you
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take him over a serious actor when he did this,
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out of the floodgates. Yeah, a lot of camp. I would say that again,
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I do love this film but if you had to nitpick and pick holes in maybe things
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that do let it down a little bit I would say there's possibly too many characters
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in this and in fact Sarah Zavaris and Diamond Dog played by Ving Rhames are
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battling to be the main bad guy here but it still,
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pulls together and it still works but it does sometimes get a bit overload with
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the characters, I think.
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Yeah, it's got some writing issues with the characters, especially with Garland
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Green, the Buscemi character, and it just doesn't make any sense.
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It should be written out, to
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be honest with you, and we'll talk about it when we dig a little deeper.
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Let's start with the reality of him going to prison. This would never happen.
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He would not do any time. It was clearly self-defense with multiple men attacking him.
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It has nothing to do with his military. He would not, I've built this,
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this is just to get him on the plane.
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He would not have done seven years for defending his wife.
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Yeah, his pregnant wife. His pregnant wife. Yeah, I know that,
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but, you know, the film would have ended with five minutes in that bar,
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so, you know, let's run with it.
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You know, this isn't, like, serious, factual, it's not a documentary, essentially. So...
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You get sentenced, and we got the reintroduction to the mullet.
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Jesus Christ. Well, again, an 80s throwback. You know, you still got that 80s
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vibe there with the mullet.
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I would say as well, I absolutely hate the Leanne Rimes song from this film. I think it's horrible.
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But at the same time, it works here.
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Because the film is so cheesy and hammy, and it does actually fit here.
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Again, you're using the words that it's not. yeah
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wisdom one it's not really cheesy and hammy you've got pretty ugly
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characters here and but it's in the
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delivery of them and i'm watching this again
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and guys i
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enjoy the film i'm giving you the past fucking you know it's eye candy is all
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it is to me now but it's definitely brockenheim's worst action film i think
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yeah it'd be up there because of the characters and the inconsistency with the characters.
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And the only character that they stick true to is Johnny 23,
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the Danny Trejo character.
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He's the only character, and Malloy, and the other heroes, they stay true at
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all. But I'm talking about the core villains here.
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It's inconsistent. You have a very ugly character in the Buscemi character.
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He's playing Garland Green. who kills girls.
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And then you have this scene where it should have been written out, the little girl.
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And there's inconsistency with the MC Ganey characters who play Swamp Thing.
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You have, who's the pilot, you have massive inconsistency with John Malkovich.
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Well, I think Diamond Dog and Bedford keep, you know, they kind of keep true to who they are.
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But at the end of the day, these are ugly fucking human beings.
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Yes. And if you're going to have characters like this, especially the characters
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I mentioned, this film needed to be darker.
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But this film is pure pantomime, and it's all about context.
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I mean, it's a nudge and a wink. They're not, you know what I mean?
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It's pure pantomime, no doubt about it. regarding the
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garland green you know the maryland mangler character it's
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just dark dark humor i mean it's very
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dark humor and the scene with the little girl that's a weird actual redemption
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arc for him that's not to me i mean again this film doesn't need redemption
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arcs all right it doesn't make it you don't need it we're not and when you say
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dark humor this isn't dark humor it is this is them just playing.
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No, it's not. No, it's not. This is just not playing for laughs.
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They try to do something edgy with him seeing the girl. It doesn't work in this kind of film.
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You've got to pick one genre in this film. You either go batshit crazy or you
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don't. This isn't Fargo. Fargo is dark comedy.
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Fargo is dark comedy for Buscemi. This is not. This is definitely dark comedy
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throughout. No, it's not.
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This is not the definition of dark comedy. This is not.
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No, it's not. This is slapstick fun. but done with very dark characters so it
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is a form of dark comedy well it's not you don't know the definition of dark
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comedy there's different aspects of dark comedy no there's not,
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there's an edge and a bite to dark comedies,
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this does not have that no there is to me but these are,
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in real world terms these would be like the vilest of vil characters no doubt
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about that but due to the tone and the context of the way this film is delivered
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you can't take that seriously because it's a pantomime and a very entertaining one,
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What Bruckheimer does well and is he always plants the seed.
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It's literally paid by numbers. And Bruckheimer knows that.
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And his directors know that. Just basically like, oh, my God,
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my diabetes are on the plane.
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Don't worry. We'll get you your insulin once you get on the plane.
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Oh, my God. There's a private, there's a DEA going on the plane.
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You can't take your gun. Don't worry. I'll sneak you a gun in.
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That won't drop up again. yeah exactly yeah they always
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like you know what's coming right yeah exactly so we're just
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waiting for the pieces to fall when's the gun gonna come into play when's the
20:04
insulin gonna break the bunny even the bunny the toy bunny is a plot device
20:08
as well to a certain extent you know yeah yeah yeah Jesus the bunny's ever supporting
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role I would say back to what you said earlier about the inconsistency,
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of characters I would agree that Sarah Zavaris were someone who's supposed to be a criminal genius.
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He's very stupid at times. You know what I mean? Especially later on.
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It would have been more clever if, I mean, he would have known right away about Poe. Yeah.
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And he would have caught that on. He would have caught that.
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And he would have caught that Chinlin's gone. Yeah, after he kills him.
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Bradford, whatever his name was. He would have caught this all on.
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And it would have been better if there was a twist where he knew Poe.
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He was playing Poe the whole time as Paul was playing him, that would have been better.
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He definitely should have noticed, you know, whenever they go for essentially
20:58
the pit stop, the refuel with the swamp things, Christ the Plain,
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how he didn't notice that Billy Bedlam was missing is stupid for a start because
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he was almost like one of his right hand men and even when he does realise it,
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it still takes him a while to work it out.
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You know? Yeah, we can Nick Pickett, like the six off, the 10 on,
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that whole sequence. Oh, there's a sandstorm coming. How convenient.
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It's fine. I go with that. And I actually, I like the fact that it gives a reason
21:34
for Paul to stay because he's not going to leave his friend behind. Yeah.
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Who needs the insulin shot. He also is worried for the girl,
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which, because of the J. Lee 23, who's consistently trying to rape her.
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Again, pretty ugly stuff to be dealing with with a film that's just so fucking batshit childish.
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I think it's a fine line to walk in terms of, if you're going to,
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I mean, they have to raise the ante and have badasses, proper hardasses on the
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plane for the sake of drama.
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So at the same time you know
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it's sort of I don't know
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I mean so you're making them very dark and really ugly people but at the same
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time the tone of the film is very sort of pantomime so it's a fine line to walk
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and I think they just about get it right just about maybe not all times.
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You know there's a couple of execution scenes
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I don't like not literally execution i mean the
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way the scene was portrayed not especially the
22:41
daa you know for a guy who's badass he
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gets on the plane he's kind of an idiot for how we handle yeah he's based barely
22:48
out of as he's getting uncuffed by pinball he's barely out of the cuffs and
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he grabs the gun and starts oh why would you take a prisoner hostage because
23:01
that's not going to work.
23:02
I think he's basically another plot device to get that extra gun on the plane.
23:07
Yeah, I suppose. Which I did mention earlier. It was blatantly thrown in there. Yeah.
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And, well, yeah, I mean, it's still fun. I don't want to tear this thing to
23:15
shreds because I do enjoy it. I do enjoy the film.
23:19
I just think watching it again, it's the least of my favorites.
23:24
I do like the character of Swamp thing.
23:27
Again, a little inconsistency for him. He seems kind of likable,
23:31
but he's kind of a pig. I guess.
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I just didn't, you know, I know they're trying to make comic book characters out of him.
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He's the pilot. He has some good jokes. He has good banter with Poe,
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even when he knows Poe's the good guy now, especially with the Vegas landing.
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There's, what's Jesus? We'll get to that. But it just seemed that,
23:49
What about Malloy? I just think they should. Was that? What about Malloy?
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Tifu Bran from Star Trek.
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He's a complete asshole. Yeah, I didn't really. Actually, of all the characters,
23:58
he has the best arc. He has a redemption arc. Yes, he does. Yeah.
24:02
Yes, he's the one. The one. But this film isn't about arcs. We don't need them.
24:08
We really don't need them. The only one who has an arc here is Malloy.
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Everyone else doesn't. You know, because they don't redeem themselves.
24:16
They're all pigs. But Poe has always been a good guy.
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We know. Garland Green does. I'm going to stick that. You know,
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the Maryland Mangler. No. He does have a redemption arc. He spurs the child.
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And then. Oh, what a nice person. I know that.
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But in a warped, sort of, twisted sort of way in the world of this film,
24:32
that is technically a redemption arc.
24:34
You know? No, I don't. I don't. I don't see it. That scene should have been
24:38
written out. I disagree. Period.
24:40
I disagree. Period. And it also sets up his little thing at the end,
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you know, where he's basically the only one that gets out alive, apart from Poe.
24:48
I do like the execution portion of the timing of the film.
24:51
And what they do is the first half of the film is them getting to Carson City.
24:58
And for the first act, taking over the plane, getting to Carson City and switch
25:03
out the six for 10 and get that all done and then fly and fly to the Lerner Airfield.
25:09
That's the first act. And then the second act is Lerner Airfield where everything
25:14
goes fucking batshit crazy.
25:16
It's the 18 but on a big budget yeah but it's not the 18 it is but on a big
25:21
budget and better more slickly directed that would just make it 18 at all it's make it 18 it's not 18,
25:31
but yeah you know talking about it,
25:37
I didn't like the pinball death I thought that was fucking batshit stupid I
25:43
do like the comedy relief when he gets stuck in the you know, the.
25:48
I got the, uh, fuck, I can't fucking think of the goddamn, the,
25:52
uh. The bottom part of the plane. The wheel. Yeah.
25:56
And Dan gets the fucker's body out. The landing gear. Fucking hell. Yeah.
26:00
And he gets stuck in the landing gear and thought that was stupid,
26:03
by the way. But it's convenient. And he writes on the chest. Yes. Yes.
26:07
And actually, did you do this? And he chucks him. And he got to,
26:11
people go, oh, there's a bird shit in my car. And then he plops on the car.
26:15
First of all, his body would have exploded. so there's no way they'll be able
26:21
to read what he wrote on that chest and do you know whose car it is he drops on?
26:26
Major Briggs from Twin Peaks even better a Twin Peaks reference fuck me.
26:34
Don Davis you call the actor he was also Scully's dad in the X-Files and there's
26:39
a couple of other X-Files actors here actually the guy who plays Swamp Thing
26:43
and Nick Chinland who plays Billy Bedlam.
26:46
So there you go. X-Files and Twin Peaks.
26:51
And he takes out Bedford. When Bedford finds out that he's been paroled.
26:56
He goes, you'll put the buddy back in the box. Yeah.
27:00
You know, is what it is. I wanted more...
27:04
Because these characters are ugly, I think what I would have liked to have seen
27:07
more of are extremely violent deaths. Better deaths? Like in Robocop, actually?
27:13
Yeah. If you're going to give us these ugly characters, cartoon-esque,
27:18
vile characters, like they did with Robocop, then they need to get their bumpins.
27:22
And I think a lot of these were too off-camera, way too off-camera.
27:26
I think they handle Cyrus pretty well. but when
27:29
you have especially with Donny Trail Dog with
27:33
Bing Rames his is off camera pretty much I
27:35
know and then you've got Swamp Thing who gets flooded and
27:39
thrown out of the fire truck and these
27:42
are the core guys you don't really see anything Donny Trail is probably certainly
27:47
on screen anyway is probably the most unpleasant character Johnny 24 or whatever
27:51
you call him so he could have I think Rachel Tocotton is that how you pronounce
27:56
her name should have been the one to finish him off instead of him just dying
27:59
in the plane crash. Yeah.
28:03
I do like where the plane crashes and the cops go is this guy alive?
28:07
No, he's dead. And they pull the body away but his arms are still hanging there. Yeah.
28:12
Yeah. I mean with Robocop, Robocop they're probably the most vile characters
28:17
I've seen on screen or some of the most vile anyway.
28:19
But they die really memorable gruesome deaths.
28:23
So it's like the guilty are punished. There's that payoff for the audience So
28:26
I think they should have had more of that here.
28:28
Yeah, you should have had that because you would have had, like,
28:30
you could work with propellers getting sucked into the engine.
28:33
Oh, there's all sorts you get there. Yeah.
28:36
Yeah, a bunch of stuff. There's a great scene when they're flying into Vegas,
28:40
and one of the best shots of the film, actually that whole ending is brilliantly shot.
28:44
They actually shot that in Vegas too. I know. At the Sands Hotel when they were demolishing it.
28:49
But there's a shot where the propeller comes flying through the plane. It's really cool.
28:53
And it cuts the plane pretty much in half. someone could have got gutted from
28:56
that you know give us something somebody's head could have been like Danny Trejo's head or something yeah,
29:02
there's another X-Files actor Danny Trejo he appeared in an X-Files episode,
29:06
okay nobody gives a fuck so anyways nobody gives nobody actually everyone listening
29:11
has just turned us off now right okay right anyways.
29:17
So their whole thing is to get Francisco from the Carson City and then they
29:22
get to the airfield and then Francisco, drug guy, drug mule, whoever he is,
29:27
drug czar, he's got a plane waiting for them and he's going to bring a handful
29:31
of the prisoners back with him. Yes.
29:34
And he ends up obviously as they, I do like, I do like when the plane crashes
29:41
at Linfield and they see all the cars coming. They see Malloy and the team coming, right?
29:47
And like, oh, my God. And the guy's on the tower. He screams.
29:51
They're coming. They're coming.
29:53
How long do we got? Oh, 10, 15 minutes. Okay, guys, pull the plane out.
29:58
So they got 10 minutes to dig out the plane because it's embedded in the dirt
30:04
and then pull it out of the dirt and get it upright so they can fly it out of
30:10
there. And they're going to do this in 10 minutes.
30:13
Yeah. This is the longest 10 minutes in film history. Yeah, I was going to say
30:17
that there. It is extended. And in fact, I think they even say it.
30:21
There's a line that actually references something like that where it's saying,
30:25
yeah, give or take or, you know, something like that.
30:27
But yeah, it's not 10 minutes, essentially. It's like more like half an hour.
30:32
There's a scene where Dog, and at this point, even over Cyrus is probably more violent.
30:39
He wants to execute the police. He's more of a badass, I think.
30:45
And he wants to execute and Paul says, well, you do that, then you're going to lose our leverage.
30:50
You don't want to do this. And then Cyrus is like, yeah, man,
30:54
that makes sense. We're not going to do that. More stupidity from Cyrus.
30:57
Yeah. Again, there should have been a moment where he puts the pieces together
31:03
or even a look that he gives Paul that Paul doesn't see where he's caught on.
31:07
There sort of is, but it's more like a look where I may suspect something here,
31:11
but he's meant to be a criminal mastermind and a genius, he should have not
31:15
just here had worked it out, but long before.
31:19
Yeah, like I said, I think, I know it's a dumb, fun film, and we'll go with it fine.
31:25
But there's nothing wrong with throwing the audience a curveball where he knew
31:31
the whole time Poe was a good guy. Yeah.
31:33
And the audience could go, oh, that makes sense because A, Cyrus is brilliant.
31:39
And also, it makes sense why he let Poe do this and Poe do this.
31:44
He was just playing with his food. He was toying with him before he had time.
31:48
It was part of his master plan where he needed pull to do this, to get to this.
31:54
So then he would pull the rug and that might all work out in his favor type
31:57
thing. You know, always about three moves ahead. But we don't get that.
32:02
I do like the ambush they have with the cops. Again, 10 minutes,
32:06
they dig out the plane, pull out the plane, which I don't know how they did, but they did it.
32:11
And then they go, they set up little traps for the cops.
32:17
So that was night time.
32:22
I was more distracted by the fact that a bunch of men no matter how hard ass
32:28
and bad ass they are can along with just a tractor pull this massive plane out
32:35
of the sand with a bunch of ropes that's not going to happen,
32:40
I know they're tough guys but they're not that fucking tough,
32:44
Yeah. Now, they take off.
32:48
Don't know how, but they eventually took off. They take off.
32:51
And they're going to crash land.
32:53
They've got no choice. They've got to crash land in Vegas. I think you see me
32:55
singing. He got the whole world on his hands.
32:58
It's now stupid. And so they crash.
33:03
And then after the plane finally crashes and stops, then there's the motorcycle fire truck scene. Yep.
33:09
I mean, if you want your action eye candy, this is gold.
33:14
This is the golden, I mean, this doesn't, it's, it's so pleasantly stupid that you can't look away.
33:25
And I think that's why I questioned people's hate on Michael Bay.
33:29
Well, Michael Bay is smarter when telling these kinds of stories.
33:34
And, but, you know, to each their own, I guess.
33:37
Again, we can go back and we just talked about the deaths and Bushimi survives
33:41
at the end, which I thought was stupid.
33:42
And I just think for all the money you're spending on these incredible elaborate
33:48
crashes and sets and chase sequences would look really good I mean again using
33:54
models with a little bit of green screen could barely notice it notice it with
33:59
the plane a little bit but no harm done,
34:01
it could have given us I mean let us see fucking Cyrus let us see Cyrus' head
34:07
explode let us see that for Christ's sake let us see Ving Rhames fly off after the motorcycle,
34:15
supposedly engulfs him in flames. Let her see him on fire.
34:19
It was something. Yeah, I mean, and another draft of the script would have been fine.
34:22
I mean, we're probably being a bit harsh here, but it is true,
34:27
but I still really enjoy and find this thoroughly entertaining, this fellow.
34:33
I mean, it is completely stupid and completely over-the-top pantomime,
34:39
but it is just some really sort of fun and likable about it.
34:44
You know, like I said, I still like the film, but at the end of the day there's
34:49
better out there that people forget about.
34:51
We'll probably eventually give a face off as a batshit crazy as well.
34:54
John Wayne. Yeah, Broken Arrow, John DeVolta, which I liked.
34:58
So, and those films don't have.
35:02
The staying power even over even face off doesn't
35:06
have the staying power for some reason it's con air and i
35:10
don't know why i think it's probably the completely over the
35:13
top larger than life characters and yes there is inconsistencies
35:16
there with them but i think they are so over
35:19
the top and in your face they are so memorable plus the
35:23
i mean it's completely the whole film is completely toe-in-cheek
35:26
and it's just a popcorn action film
35:29
with real dark humor in
35:32
there and it's just a bit crazy i think people i certainly appreciated it at
35:37
the time and revisiting it i still find it very entertaining and actually got
35:41
quite nostalgic watching it and brought me back to when i did first watch it
35:46
with my mates on video back in the late 90s i think it would have been 98 or so Yeah,
35:52
I mean, there's a lot to love about this.
35:55
A lot of people would agree Con Air is a fan fave of the 90s action genre. Yep.
36:03
All right. We're going to wrap this one up. We got another 90s coming to you.
36:07
Don't know what one that is yet. I almost want to stick with planes.
36:11
Right, so it's plan month then?
36:14
We could do Executive Vision and like Air Force One. Plan month.
36:20
Yeah, Harrison forward. Just call it plane month.
36:24
Okay, plane month. Yeah, and then we'll review some old episodes of, I don't know, our wife.
36:32
So, yeah, so we'll probably do like Air Force One and executive decision,
36:36
I think, is an underrated gem.
36:37
It got lost in the shuffle, but one of the biggest, balliest moves in cinema
36:42
history happened in executive decision.
36:46
And it is, it'll be fun to talk about. let's do snakes on a plane as well if
36:51
we're going to do plane month,
36:53
If we do stakes on a plane, the problem, how many do we got?
36:56
We got so many. Oh, fuck. I don't give a fuck. It's plane month, guys.
37:02
We'll have to do planes, trains, and automobiles. No, no. I'm joking.
37:08
Okay. And then we will end with plane. With Jared Butler. Our plane.
37:14
Leslie Nielsen. Oh, my God. All right. So there you go. There's our next line
37:18
up. It's plane month. We had that all planned the whole time.
37:22
Oh dear and we're accusing other people of being cheesy and ropey what,
37:28
we're fucking terrible at this fucking we're terrible alright so next up executive
37:32
decision Kurt Russell that's all you need to hear the great action star Kurt
37:39
Russell making the transition from 80's action,
37:43
to 90's it's playing month on citizen freedom yep,
37:49
alright guys give us a shout out and you can certainly yell at us if you want
37:53
because we will be getting to the final destinations, I promise.
37:56
Give us a shout at citizenframe underscore podcast on Instagram and, of course, on Facebook.
38:03
That's all we have for you. We're going to wrap it up. Take care of yourselves. Be good.