Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Behind The Lens: Iconic Photos and Stories of Rock & Roll Legends [Episode 210]

Transcript

Behind The Lens: Iconic Photos and Stories of Rock & Roll Legends [Episode 210] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: It was pretty dangerous in the crowd at Winterland because
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: all these like, like football player types from the suburbs
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: had come there, not because they cared about the sex pistols.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: They thought the sex pistols were a joke and they
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: were just there to cause trouble. And so you'd have
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: these big, burly guys just ramming through the audience and
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: just banging into people and knocking people over.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: We're totally booming rock and roll.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, I leave you. You're reading little hands this.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: It's time to rock and roll, roll out. I totally booked.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to book don Rock the podcast for those
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: about to read and rock. Find the podcast online at
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: bookdonrock dot com. I could find every episode there, along
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: with links to your favorite listening platforms, exclusive video segments, blogs,
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: links to all of the social media sites, and the
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: latest rock book releases that You can also watch every
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: episode in full on video at the website bookdown rock
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: dot com, also on the booked down Rock YouTube channel
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: at bookdown Rock. And if you like what you see,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: make sure you click the like and subscribe buttons. That
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: goes a long way to support the podcast. Rock and
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: roll journalist, author and photographer Michael Goldberg is back on
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: the podcast. This is his third appearance. He's got a
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  Speaker 2: brand new book titled Jukebox nineteen sixty seven to twenty
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  Speaker 2: twenty three Photographs. Mike was best known as a writer,
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  Speaker 2: but for over fifty years he's also been photographing musicians,
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  Speaker 2: and the photos and Jukebox are drawn from the thousands
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  Speaker 2: he's taken over the years. Included are photos of the
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  Speaker 2: Sex Pistols, Divo, The Clash, Bruce Springsteen, Jim Morrison, Lou Reed,
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  Speaker 2: Janis Joplin, Muddy Waters, Patti Smith, The Who, Neil Young,
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  Speaker 2: Jerry Garcia, Bob Dylan, Frank Zappa, Gray Slick and Paul Kantner,
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  Speaker 2: Tom Waits, the Ramones, and many many more. Most of
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  Speaker 2: the photos here have never been seen before, including rare
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  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy photos of Jerry Garcia in his Larkspur home,
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  Speaker 2: months before recording began for the group's classic album American Beauty.
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  Speaker 2: Some of the photographs were taken at the homes of
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  Speaker 2: the artists or in your hotel rooms. Michael's here to
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  Speaker 2: share with us some of the stories behind the photos
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  Speaker 2: in the book. How You doing, Michael, Good to see again?
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  Speaker 1: Good Yeah, good to see you as well. Thank you
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  Speaker 1: for having me back.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, I always talk about when people say you have
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: any recommended books, and I always bring up Wicked Game. Now,
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  Speaker 2: this is your twenty twenty two book, The True Story
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  Speaker 2: of guitarist James Calvin Wilsey. That is one of the
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  Speaker 2: one of the best books I've ever read.
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  Speaker 1: Wow, thank you, thank.
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  Speaker 2: You, amazing book. Let's talk about your book, which is
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I believe it's out now, is it correct, Jukebox.
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  Speaker 1: No, it's going to be out basically by the end
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  Speaker 1: of July.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, so.
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  Speaker 1: People can pre order it right now from the publisher
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: is HOZAC Records and Books. And you know, if they're interested,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: they just need to go they could go to the
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Hozac website. You know, we could talk about that at
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  Speaker 1: the end to end of this.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you want definitely, definitely. I also want to mention too,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Addicted to Noise. That's the other book that I had
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  Speaker 2: you on for too. That's another great book people can
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  Speaker 2: check out too. So on this one, Jukebox tell us
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  Speaker 2: about I'm interested in when you started taking photos, when
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: your love of photography started, because you mentioned it in
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: the book that this goes back to when you were
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  Speaker 2: a kid. And there's also a great photo of Jim
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Morrison in the book where that's the first, I think,
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  Speaker 2: the first big time photo that you took, and you're
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  Speaker 2: only thirteen years old. So take us back to the beginning.
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  Speaker 1: I was. I was thirteen, about to turn fourteen, and
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: there was this was what turns out to be the
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: first rock festival in the United States maybe in the world.
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  Speaker 1: Happened on Mount tamil Pious in Marin County, and they
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: was a two day festival and they had the Jefferson Airplane,
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  Speaker 1: the Birds, Captain Beefheart, who, a whole bunch of other
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: bands played there, and one of the headliners was The Doors.
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  Speaker 1: And the Doors had a huge hit with their first
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  Speaker 1: song single Light My Fire back then, and I was
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  Speaker 1: just a major Doors fan, so I was very excited,
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  Speaker 1: you know, at age thirteen, that I was going to
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  Speaker 1: be able to see this band perform. And I brought
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  Speaker 1: my Brownie camera with me and took some pictures of
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  Speaker 1: Jim Morrison and I was able to get close to
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  Speaker 1: the stage and it got pretty cool. I mean, I
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  Speaker 1: also got pictures of ray Manzeric, the keyboard player. But
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  Speaker 1: I included the Jim Morrison photograph in the book because
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  Speaker 1: I think it's a good photograph, and I also, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I talk a little bit about how I about doing photography, uh,
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  Speaker 1: you know, in my introduction to the book, and so
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  Speaker 1: I thought it would be nice for people who read
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  Speaker 1: that to you know, see essentially the first photograph of
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  Speaker 1: a rock musician that I took, you know. As it
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  Speaker 1: turned out, that same summer, I also ended up there
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  Speaker 1: was things were really different back then. You could like
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  Speaker 1: often just walk backstage at when they were at these
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  Speaker 1: outdoor events. And so they had they had an outdoor
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  Speaker 1: concert happening in San Rafel, California, Mcneer's Beach and the
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  Speaker 1: Young Bloods who had their big hit with Get Together
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  Speaker 1: were playing, and the Soop with Camel who had big
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: hit with Helloh Low, they were playing. And so I
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  Speaker 1: just walked sort of into the back area behind the stage,
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  Speaker 1: and who's there but Phil Lesh and the Grateful Dad
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  Speaker 1: and so I, you know, I I asked him if
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  Speaker 1: I could take his picture, and he was fine with it.
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  Speaker 1: I took a couple of portraits of him, and uh,
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  Speaker 1: and then I took a portrait of Peter Kramer, who
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: was the uh, the singer in the Stop with Camel
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  Speaker 1: And I included those photos in the book as as well.
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  Speaker 2: The guy who's on the flute there, Who's who's on
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  Speaker 2: the flute? Is that? Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's Kramer from from the uh the Stop with
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  Speaker 1: Camel and Uh Yeah. That was the sort of the
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  Speaker 1: start of my you know, you know, taking photographs of musicians.
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  Speaker 2: Cool and great shots. Man, you're right there, going back
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  Speaker 2: to the Jim Morrison shot, you're right there. You're right
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: up against the stage. He's got the denim jean's on.
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  Speaker 2: He's looking well, let's think you get you capture that
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  Speaker 2: moment too. He's looking off. He's got that kind of
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: like that vacant look on his face, like what's he thinking.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: He's looking off, staring off into the distance. He's in
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  Speaker 2: the pose the Morrison Poe's Yeah, that's cool, that's cool.
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  Speaker 2: You have what they call a photographic eye, which you
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  Speaker 2: developed by studying and absorbing the way photographers whose work
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  Speaker 2: moved you frame their subjects.
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  Speaker 1: What are the.
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  Speaker 2: Things someone with a photographic eye can see that others don't.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I mean I was a big fan of French films,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: and so when I would watch you know, something by
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: you know, Jean Luc Godard or or Francis Trefoe or
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: as well as I was a fan of film noir,
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  Speaker 1: and I would look at how how they framed the
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  Speaker 1: framing that they did, and yeah, particularly when they were
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: getting doing close ups on one of one of the actors, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: how were they framing them? How close are they getting
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  Speaker 1: to them? Just that kind of thing. But I also,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, there were all these photographers, some of whom
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: were rock photographers, some of whom weren't, that I looked
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  Speaker 1: really closely at their work. I mean I loved the
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  Speaker 1: work of Jim Marshall. I mean he was like one
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  Speaker 1: of one of the biggest rock photographers there were back
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  Speaker 1: in the sixties and seventies. And in San Francisco, there
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  Speaker 1: was Herb Green who photographed all of the San Francisco bands,
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  Speaker 1: and then of course Annie Leibowitz, who was Rolling Stone's
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  Speaker 1: chief photographer for many years, and before her, Baron Woolman,
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  Speaker 1: he was the first photographer for Rolling Stone, and so
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  Speaker 1: and there were a lot of other photographers. I mean, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it just kind of goes on and on. But I
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  Speaker 1: would just really study their photographs and and sort of
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  Speaker 1: I just took in what what I thought made for
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  Speaker 1: a good photograph in terms of terms of the framing,
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  Speaker 1: in terms of kind of what you were looking for.
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  Speaker 1: And I mean it's hard. I mean, I guess you
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  Speaker 1: could sort of break it down into into specific elements,
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  Speaker 1: but it's sort of more of an intuitive thing, and
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  Speaker 1: it just seems like that was something that I had,
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  Speaker 1: you know, I mean where I when I was photographing someone,
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  Speaker 1: I would just kind of intuitively based on what I
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  Speaker 1: had absorbed, you know, get get at a certain distance
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  Speaker 1: to them, get you know, where they I put them
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  Speaker 1: in the frame, how you know, yeah, how close? You know,
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  Speaker 1: just just all these kinds of things. So I would
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  Speaker 1: also take a lot of photographs. I mean, back in
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  Speaker 1: the days of film, the most you could get was
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  Speaker 1: thirty six photographs on a role of film. But I
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  Speaker 1: would shoot two or three roles as many photographs in
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  Speaker 1: a way within reason, as like when I was doing
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  Speaker 1: close you know, portraits like backstage, you know, or in
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  Speaker 1: a hotel room. If I had the opportunity, I would shoot,
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  Speaker 1: you know, multiple roles of film. And the more photos
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  Speaker 1: you take, the more chance that one of them is
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  Speaker 1: really going to click in the right way, and that
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  Speaker 1: that happened many times.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you talk about imperfectly perfect shots, you learned
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  Speaker 2: that from Robert Frank, the photographer Robert Frank. The great
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  Speaker 2: photos aren't always in sharp focus or even properly expose.
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  Speaker 2: Could expand that on that is it more about capturing
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  Speaker 2: the emotion of the moment than worrying about perfection.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, nowadays it's it's very different.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, you've got a digital camera. It has a
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  Speaker 1: very sophisticated auto focus, a very sophisticated light meter built
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  Speaker 1: into it. You can so these days it's pretty hard
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  Speaker 1: to not get your photographs in focus and to get
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  Speaker 1: the the exposure exactly right. But back in the time
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: of Robert Frank and you know, the fifties the sixties,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: it was it was very different. You're using a film camera,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: you're manually focusing that camera, you're you know, you're trying
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: to get you know, to get this picture. You don't
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: always have time to make sure you've got the exposure right.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Some photographers like Jim Marshall were just brilliant at that.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, they could they could manage to get the
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  Speaker 1: get everything just right. But a lot of people couldn't including.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I consider Robert Frank one of the great photographers.
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  Speaker 1: His book The Americans is unbelievably good. And so, you know,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: in terms of this book, there are some photographs of
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Jerry Garcia. For example, where I was, I was developing
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: my own film, my own Negatives back then, and you know,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I went when I took the Jerry Garcia photographs, which
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: were I took at his house in Larkspur when I
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: was seventeen, I developed those negatives in my in my
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: parents' garage where I had this kind of funky dark
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: room set up, and and and the some of those
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: negatives got exposed a little weirdly, and so but I
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: thought that the photographs themselves, well, there's one in particular
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: where there's just some strange stuff in the picture. That's
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: that's because of me developing it. And I think the
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: film two pieces of the film, we're touching each other.
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  Speaker 1: But I put that photograph into the book anyway because
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: I still thought it was like a really strong photograph
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: of Garcia. And you know, and there's a photograph of
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Michael Bloomfield performing live and it's not in perfectly sharp focus,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: but I think it really captures Michael Bloomfield when he
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: was playing. You know what he looked like when he
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: was on stage in a club playing, And so that's
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  Speaker 1: what I'm talking about in terms of imperfectly perfect. I mean,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: you know, from a technical standpoint, not perfect, but from
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  Speaker 1: a soulful standpoint, I think there, I think perfect.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: So yeah, and the Jerry Garcia photos are cool because
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: it gives you an inside look at the Jerry Garcia,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: not on stage but at home, just hanging out. If
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: you could tell the story, because you did tell me
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: this story when you were last on for your book
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Addicted to Noise, this is nineteen seventy. What stands out
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: to you about that experience talking to Jerry at his house?
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: You get this side of the whole thing was kind
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: of amazing because.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Me and this other guy we were good, very good friends,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: and we had become friends with the son of the
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: great disc jockey record company president, producer, concert promoter Tom Donnau,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: who Tom Donnau started underground FM rock radio at a
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: station called KMPX in San Francisco. Before that, he was
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: a major DJ on KYA, the top forty station. So
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: his son was in one of my classes and so
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: we went up. We were going to for the This
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: was during the summer, and my friend and I had
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: decided we were going to try to start a Bay
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Area rock magazine, like a Bay Area version of Rolling Stone.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: So and we were going to call it Hard Road
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: after a John Mayol Blues Brothers album, because our idea
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: was that the musician's life, it's a hard road, it's tough,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: and so anyway, we're going to start this magazine. We're
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: up on Mount tamil Pias where Donna Who's house is
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: park the car. We start walking up, walk up and
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: who's standing at the top of the driveway. But Jerry
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Garcia and musicians would be coming up to Tom Donna
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Whue's house all the time. I mean they wanted him
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: to play their records. I mean they you know, this
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: was a big deal for them. So there's Jerry Garcia
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: and I went up to him and I said, you know,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: we're starting this rock magazine and we would really like
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: to interview you. Would you consent to doing an interview
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: with us? And amazingly he says yes, and he gives
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: us his address in Larkspur and tells us, you know
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: to come that you know, gives us a date and
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: a time to come. It's it's in the early evening.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: He wants us to show up, I don't know, six
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: six thirty and.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: You know, so total free, help minded, not even concerned,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: like who is this kid? I love it and that
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: that's such air.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: This was such a different time, you know, it's almost
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: hard for people who weren't around then to appreciate how
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: different things were, especially in the San Francisco Bay area.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: So anyway, we show up at his house at the
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: time when when he wanted us, and I'm I'm carrying
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: like this, you know, real to real tape recorder because
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: they didn't have cassette tape recorders at that time. So
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: I've got this real to real recorder I'm carrying, and
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I got a camera around my neck. And anyway, we
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: knock on the door and Mountain Girl Jerry Garcia is
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: you know, she became his wife, but she was his
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: girlfriend at the time, as I'm pretty sure they weren't
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: married yet. And she looks at us, you know, we're
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: like seventeen year old kids, and she's like, can I
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: help you?
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Help you?
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: What's going on here? And you know, and I said
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: her you know. Well, Jerry Garcia gave us this at
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: the your address and told us to come at this
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: time to do an interview with him for a magazine
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: we're starting. And she said, well, that's kind of funny
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: because he's about to leave to head over to Berkeley
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: to play the Keystone Berkeley tonight. And I said, well,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know what to say, you know, And she
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: goes back and she said, comes back to the door
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: and says, yeah, yeah, come on in, Jerry's going to
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: talk to you. And so she brings us into their
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: living room and one of the things I remember is
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: that the cover art from the first Grateful Dead album
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: was up over the fireplace, like framed over the fireplace.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: And then I believe Robert Hunter was all hanging out
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: there at that evening. Yeah yeah, and he might have
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: even been living in that house at that point. But anyway,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: so Jerry does, like, I don't know, twenty thirty minute
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: interview with us, and while we're talking to him, I'm
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: taking photographs of him. And then I also took photographs
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: of him when we were finished with the interview, so
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: I could get some shots where he was not having
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: to be talking. He could like, you know, stand up
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: and actually look at me, and you know, and it
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: was just it was like this amazing experience, you know.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, Jerry Garcia was a big deal back then
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: to us. The Grateful Dead weren't yet popular the way
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: they became. They couldn't sell out stadiums back in nineteen seventy,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: but they could certainly sell out Winterland, you know, which
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: is old, you know, five thousand people in San Francisco
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: and other venues of that kind of size, especially in
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: the Bay Area where they had a huge following from
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: early on. And this was when we interviewed him and
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: I took the photographs. Was right at the time when
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: they were getting the material together and maybe even have
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: started recording American Beauty, which I think is possibly the
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Grateful Dead's greatest album. So it was kind of cool
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: that that was when when I got the photographs of him.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then there's some photos of there's photos of
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Jerry with the new writers of the Purple Sage and
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Grateful Dead in there, shots of Ron Pigped McKern in,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Phil Lesh, Mickey Hart, Bob Where when and where were
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: those taken? Any memories to share of those? You're so
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: close again, it's like you're on the stage.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Well, the thing was, those were you know, those are
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: obviously live shots, although the new writers shots might have
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: been taken during a rehearsal at the heliport in Sasolito,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: which is where I mean, I'm not I can't remember
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: for sure about that. It's so long ago, but I
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: do know that, I mean, the heliport had rehearsal spaces
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: where bands rehearsed, and I just have that in my mind.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: I just just seems to me that that might be
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: where I took those particular pictures. But the pictures of
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: a pig pen and and you know the dead performing
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: that was taken at this.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: This place in San Rafel, and that was the name
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: of the avenue.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, the thing was it was Euphoria, and then
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: it became pepper Land. But when I took the pictures
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: of of of the Dead, it was it was Euphoria.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: And then later I took some pictures like of Frank
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Zappa and some others, and it was pepper Land. But
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: but yeah, and the thing was, in terms of those
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: you could get right up to the stage, and then
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: I had at that point I had a I was
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: using a Pentex thirty five millimeter camera and I think
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: it was an eighty millimeter lens that I would use
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: when I was taking concert shots. So if you know,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: if you got right up to the edge of the
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: stage and you use an eighty milimeter lens, you can
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: you could get shots that where it's yeah, it's really close.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: It looks like he's playing the steel pedal.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Well, that is probably from the The.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: New Writers, Yes, Marin County nineteen seventy. Yeah, okay, yeah,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: book on podcasts. We'll be back after this.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I think I need a break, a little break. Okay.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: A lot of these are in black and white, some
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: are of color. I don't know if is that a
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: conscious choice on your part? Are you're looking for more
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: black and white? Do you like that?
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Well, well, the thing is, if you look at the
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: history of photography, it was only in maybe the eighties
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: where color became something that photographers who considered themselves we're
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: trying to do art, we're using and the guy who's
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: responsible for that, and I'm gonna I want to get
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: this right, but it's will William Eagleston is the photographer
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: who they put some of his photographs. I think in
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: the New York Museum of Modern Art, uh Eagleston and
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: his color photographs, and that was that was what sort
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: of made it okay to use color when you were shooting,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: when you were taking your photographs, you know, if you
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: were if you were aspiring to you know, to have
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: your stuff in galleries and and the like and books
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: and galleries and stuff. And so the other thing.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Was that.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: You could develop black and white yourself. Developing color was
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: a much more challenging process back at that time. But
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: I was just a huge I was a huge fan
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: of black and white photographers. I mean, everything Jim Marshall
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: took was black and white. Every thing that that Herb
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Green took at that point in time was was black
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: and white. Annie Leeb with her all their stuff for
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Rolling Stone back in the in the late sixties was
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: black and white. It was that was what everyone did.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: And yeah, and so yeah, I didn't start really start
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: using color until I had started using digital cameras, Okay,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: I mean before everything was black and it was black
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: and white.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: How often when you were assigned to do a story,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: were you combining your article and photos together? How often
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: did that happen? A lot?
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: It happened. It happened a lot. I mean, this was
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: this was before I was working at Rolling Stone. This
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: was when I was my career was was just starting.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: So I was writing freelance articles for the San Francisco
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Chronicles Sunday date book section, which was their entertainment section.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: I was doing photographs for the Berkeley Barb, for the
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: San Francisco Bay Guardian, and which I mean those they
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: weren't running any color photographs anyway. I mean, you know,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: they were newspapers, and also a magazine called City of
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: San Francisco Magazine. I did some of these four and
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: we basically they would give me an assignment for to
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: do the story. I would when I turned in the story,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: I would often turn in photographs as well, smart because
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: I would basically I would tell the people that were
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: arranging the interviews, I'd say, I'd like to take some
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: photographs as well. Can you let the artists know that
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: that's that's something that I'm planning to do. And back then,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: musicians were just very loose about everything. I mean, it
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: wasn't like it was just so different. I mean, like
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: when I went one of the first interviews nineteen seventy
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: five interviewed Frank Zappa in his hotel room at the
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Miaku Hotel in San Francisco, and I was just told,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: you know, come to his room is on you know,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: the fourth floor. It's this is the room number. I
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: show up there. It's just Frank Zappa. There's no publicist,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: there's no there's no one else.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: No security, just nothing, no, totally no.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: And so my future wife was doing stories with me
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: at that time, and and so we just showed up
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: and there was an official photographer from the Berkeley Barb
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: there to photograph Zappa while we were doing the interview.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: But when the interview was over, I just said said
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: to him, you know, I'd like to just get a
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: few few shots of you and and got some photographs
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: that they're they're in the book. Those those those portraits,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: and I you know, I just I love them. I
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: think they turned out just fantastic. And you know Tom
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Waits backstage in his dressing room, there's no one else there,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: just it was you know, it was me. And then
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: there was another reporter and so the other reporter interviewed
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Waits and I took photographs of him, and then the
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: other reporter left and then I interviewed him, and that's it.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: There's no again, there's no manager, there's no no one
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: there but but Tom Waits. We went out to Stintson
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Beach to Commander Cody's house that he was renting out there,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: hung out with him, interviewed him, took took photographs of him.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: It was just such a different time, you know that
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: we would just never happen like that now. And the
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: other thing was, usually you could photograph at a club,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: you could just photograph for the whole set. These days
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: you're lucky to get three songs, but back then, no,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: you could just and not only that, but like these
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: days they don't want you using flash. But back then,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: if you needed to use flash, you could. And I
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: mean people in the audience didn't always care for that,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: but it sure helped you to get some some really
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: good photographs.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: When you say three songs, So what is that like,
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: It's like a a sign is like a certain amount
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: of time that you only have and then you got
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: to split and let the next photographer.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Get No, it's no, it's like okay, just think of
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: just think of an auditorium or a theater where a
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: band is playing and usually there's an area right at
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: the right in front of the stage, but there's a
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: gap of maybe I don't know, five feet or something
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: between the edge of the stage and where the audience is,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: and so in that area they will let x amount
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: of photographers go to photograph. You know, it's people who
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: have photo passes. So you have to have gotten a
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: photo pass. Sometimes they have you sign something that says
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: these photos will only be can only be used for
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: the publication that you got the assignment for. You can't
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: use them in any other way. And so for three
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: the first three songs, you can take pictures and then
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: they get you out of there. The security you out,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: They don't let you stay there, and that's it. Nobody
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: is photographing for the rest of the show. And you know,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: whereas back back when I was taking photographs, you know,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: doing a lot of photographs of live stuff, I could
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: just be taking photographs the whole time, you know, I
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: mean the sex Pistols. I was just right at the
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: front of the stage taking pictures of the sex Pistols
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: during their entire set at Winterland in San Francisco. At
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: the same thing at the clubs, you're just there. Iggy
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Pop is performing and you're there taking pictures lou Reed
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: is performing, I mean, and so you know, it allowed
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: you to to get I mean, I think it allowed
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: you to get much better photographs because you weren't confined
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: to this three three sort thing where you just felt
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: under pressure. Got to get the pictures, got to get
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: a good picture in these three songs.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: You know, tell me about the shows like Sex Pistols
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: or Iggy Pop, dangerous, a little rowdy, the crowd, I'm
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: sure all.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: The crowd, the crowd for the sex Pistols at Winterland,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: this was this was their last show before they disbanded.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: And then of course years later they regrouped, you know
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: for there. I think they called it the Filthy Lucre Tour,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: but it was, you know, they regrouped. I mean, how
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: how could the sex Pistols regroup? I mean, their whole thing,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: you know, anarchy in the UK. I mean, all their songs,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: they they weren't about a career as a rock band,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: but by the time they regrouped, they were. But back
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: then that was the last thing on their mind, I'm sure,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: but it was. It was pretty dangerous in the crowd
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: at Winterland because all these like like football player types
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: from the suburbs had come there like they you know,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: not because they cared about the sex pistols. They thought
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: the sex pistols were a joke and they were just
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: there to cause trouble. And so you'd have these big,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: burly guys just ramming through the audience and just banging
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: into people and knocking people over, and I mean it
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: was terrible.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Did you have any close calls? I mean you get
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: some some big dude pushing you around.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Well, I was. I was keeping an eye out for
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: what was going on, but I went by the time
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: like I was in the audience, and I worked my
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: way again, I worked my way up right to the
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: front of the stage, and so they were sort of
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: they weren't that close up. And so so I didn't
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: have a I didn't actually I myself have a problem
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: with that, but other people sure did. Yeah, and there was.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Well what about the Blondie show. I want to ask
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: you about that too. Some amazing shots of Debbie Harry
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: and Blondie Oakland Civic Auditorium in Oakland, nineteen seventy nine.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: Some great expressions from Debbie Harry here she has that
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: she has that sex appeal. It's like the natural sex
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: appeal that you capturing these shots. What do you recall
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: about that night?
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Well, the other thing about these pictures of her is,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: you know, there's some of them where she's smiling, but
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: there's one it's the fourth picture, and she's got this
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: very serious expression. She's standing sort of sideways looking out
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: at the audience, and she's got her the microphone in
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: her hand and it's sort of got the microphone facing
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: down like this is a moment when the band is playing,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: you know, an instrumental part of the song. And I
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: think it's it just captures this sort of cool that
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Zebra Harry you know, has and certainly had back then.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Yah, I'm looking at it here now.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's such a cool shot.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: She's looking up. Yeah. Yeah. So she's at the edge
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: of the stage there.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: It looks like, yeah, well, the thing is, again, I'm
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: sure I was shooting this with with my eighty millimeter
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: lens so I could get a nice portrait of her,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: you know, even though I mean I'm sure she was
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: back further than just she wasn't like necessarily right at
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: the edge of the stage, but you know, I could
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: get a nice, nice portrait of her being that I
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: was at the front of the stage and I was
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: using that lens, and I mean, I you know, when
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: the New York scene, the punk scene started, it was
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: really like seventy four, seventy five, seventy six is when
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: when seventy five really, I mean and seventy four, because
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: by the time, by seventy five, bands were getting record contracts.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: You know, Richard Hell and the Voidoids had a contract,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Blondie got signed to an independent label, and the Ramones
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: got signed to Sire Records, and Talking Heads got signed
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: to Sire Television, got signed to Elektra. All th that
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: all happened in like you know, that was happening by
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: seventy six, even by the end of seventy five, because
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: Patty Smith's first album came out, as I recall, at
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: the very end of seventy five. And so but if
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: you were on the West Coast for most of these bands,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: you couldn't hear them. They weren't coming out here yet,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: you know, they didn't have an audience out here. I mean,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Patty Smith did come out here early. She played the
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Bay Area in seventy four. I saw her at the
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: end of seventy five. But I learned about all these
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: bands because I got a subscription to the Village Voice,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: which was the New York underground paper, and they were
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: writing about all of these artists very early on, and
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: writing CBGB's CBG. So I was very excited to hear,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: actually hear what these artists sounded like. And you know,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: of course, we didn't have the internet then, we didn't
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: have YouTube then, I mean, so, so you know, you
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: could only hear artists if bootleg records came out, and
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: they usually didn't come out at that point in time
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: on artists that weren't already popular. But anyway, when Blondie's
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: first album came out, I bought it and I loved it.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: So when they when they were coming out here to
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: play live, I wanted to see them, you know, and
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: so I was I was really into it. When I
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: saw this show at you know, the Oakland, you know Auditorium,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: I was, I was totally into it.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: You saw Springsteen on the seventy eight tour, which with
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: the East Street Band, which you say is arguably their
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: best tour. Memories of that night Winterland.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean the thing was I mean again,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: you just worked. I would just work my way up
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: to the front of the stage. And luckily I'm six
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: feet tall, so you know, I I was above most
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: of the people, you know, just tall enough above most
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: of the people up there, and I could position myself
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: so that I could get shots of an artist, you know,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: and you know, get really close up shots. And I
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: mean Springsteen was just at the top of his game
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: in my opinion on that tour that was Darkness Edge
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: of Town. Darkness at the Edge of Town had come out,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: and that's arguably arguably his best album. I mean, Now
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: the River is also right up there, and Born to
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Run is right up there. I mean, those would be
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: to me, those would be the three albums. So you know,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: he was, he was at the you know, the top
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: of his game. He was, you know, performing great. Winterland
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: was a good place to see artists and yeah, and
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: so I was there for I mean, he played a
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: few nights. I was there for one of those notights.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: But there's a live recording I think that Casan Radio
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: broadcast one of the nights. And so there is a
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: bootleg recording available of Springsteen in seventy eight at Winterland
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: that people can get a hold of if they're interesting interested,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: and they will. If they're a Springsteen fan, they will
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: love it.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I thought it was interesting that Neil Young
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: shots one set of photos from nineteen seventy three from
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: the Forum in Inglewood and then others from nineteen seventy
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: eight from boarding House in San Francisco, and Neil's got
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: a totally different look and the music was different seventy
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: three and seventy eight, So I'm curious to get your
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: thoughts on those two shows. There's an overhead shot of
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: Neil from seventy three which is really cool in the book.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I was I was going to college back then,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: and I I was studying photography and I was studying filmmaking.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: But I also got this idea that I could I
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: could sell photographs that I took of rock stars at
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: at their shows, before before they performed or after they performed,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: and so I took some photographs. I remember I took
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: some photographs of I think I took some of Neil
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Young in Santa Cruz and I I brought some prints
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: down and I was trying to sell them, sell them
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: before the show started. And as I recall that that
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: didn't really work out very well. But but the thing
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: was when Springsteen, I mean not springten, when Neil Young
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: played Santa Cruz. He played I think it's the Santa
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Cruz Civic Auditorium. I mean it's a relatively small auditorium
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: in Santa Cruz, and so you could get again, you
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: could get close it. Maybe maybe it I mean my
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: recollection is it is It held maybe three thousand people
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: something like that, as opposed to the Forum, which held
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: a lot more people. It was it was trickier, you know,
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: tot but I mean you really had a work to
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: get up to the front at the Forum. So in
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: terms of a concert, and and this was he was
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: playing all new material. This was like, you know, oh,
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: what's his album the really popular one with Heart of
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Gold Harvest Harvest Harvest to come out was it was
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: a huge hit for Neil. He was on on the radio.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: So when he did this tour after right after Harvest,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: he does essentially like half the set or more was
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: brand new material. And it's it ended up he the
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Live a live album was released with all this new
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: material as a vinyl record, but for years and years
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: and years Neil would not put it out on CD.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: It finally came out on CD just a couple of
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: couple of years ago. But but anyway, so the Santa
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Cruz set, I could really get into the music and
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: the so when when the at the Forum, I wasn't
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: so focused on the music, I was focused on taking
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: photographs of Neil and trying to get you know, I
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: mean I shot a lot of photographs of him and
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: managed to get you know, some that I think turned
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: out really good. I mean, there's one of them that
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: that is across two pages of the book and it's
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: just you know, it's really in sharp focus and it's
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: it's a really cool picture of him. At the other show,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: which was a number of years later, that was at
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: a small club called the Boarding House, which held maybe
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: five hundred people, four hundred, five hundred, something like that.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: And so so you could get you know, if you
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: if you went right up to the front of the stage,
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Neil was right there, you know, And so I was
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: able to get, you know, I think, some really nice photographs,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: close up photographs of him. And that was essentially that
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: was an acoustic set, and that was might have been
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: I can't remember now, I'd have to look, but it
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: might have been after Comes a Time, come out.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Right, Comes a Time. I looked up Yeah, I was
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: looking that up before before I set up the questions.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: I was looking that up Comes a Time, Yeah, and
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Times It's Away. Is the live album that I think
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: you were referring.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's that's the one, the one. I mean, I
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: really like that album and I think some of the
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: songs on it are just terrific. But you know, Neil
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: has his opinions about his music, and he took a
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: long long time before he finally let that come out
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: on a CD.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: It's just I love the difference in the two between
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: you know, five years, what a different makes, What a
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: different What a difference that makes, because in seventy three
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: he's got like this funky pair of jeans with things
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: like Sodan patches, and and then in seventy eight he's
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: got the short hair, looks like he's almost parying a suit,
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: you know, And that's so Neil Young. He just unpredictable.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: You never know what he's gonna do.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: And yeah, but it was still in it was still
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: in the years when he was making great albums, you know,
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: one after another, and that that kept up for a while.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: And then yeah, I mean, you know, and he was
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: really sort of peaking.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Then the battles where the record label comes as we
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: get to seventy nine or eighty, I think.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, once he signed with Geffen, and so then
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: there was that was a whole weird thing going on,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: and he was he was almost like, it seemed like,
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: because they so much wanted him to do the Neil
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: Young quote unquote Neil Young thing, he was purposefully not
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: doing that.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: I love it. Yeah, that album he made the early eighties,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: the uh, what's the one he made in the eighties
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: with all the synth songs on it?
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: Tram, Yes, I think it's Tram.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just serious. XM just played one of the
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: songs off of that album and it's such a trip
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: to listen to to Neil on that album. Yeah, that's
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: called trans nineteen eighty three. On Rock Podcasts, We'll be
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: back after.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: This Suspense is killing Me.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Author, rock journalist and photographer Michael Goldberg is here to
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: talk about his latest books called Jukebox nineteen sixty seven
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: to twenty two three photographs. The Devo Press Conference nineteen
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: seventy eight. This is in San France. They are all
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: in those classic outfits with the sunglasses, the square sunglasses,
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: whatever those are, and they're all looking right at you.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: So I'm curious about this one. What stands out to
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: you about that shot? Did you tell the guys over
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: here guys.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, I must have I mean I must
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: have done that. You know. The thing was though about them.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: I was a huge fan of Devo, like I got
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: at that point in time, I was the record companies
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: were sending me advances of records. You know, you'd get
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: you know, the album was going to come out such
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: and such a time, but you might you might get
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: an advance of it months earlier. And so I had
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: interviewed them down in Elliott Roberts, who was, you know,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: Neil Young's famously Neil Young's manager. He also became Devo's manager.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: And so when their debut album came out, before it
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: came out, I flew down to LA and went to
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Elliott's office and interviewed all of the guys, all the
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Devo guys in his office, and did a story for
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: a national magazine called New Times about Devo. I mean
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: I thought they were I thought they were incredible. I mean,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: when I heard their first album, and you know, before
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: it had been released, I just thought, this is absolutely amazing.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: I mean I hadn't heard anything like that before. Just
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: their whole their whole sound was so almost sort of
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: robotic and and just just very unusual. I mean, the
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: way they did the Rolling Stone Satisfaction. I mean, no
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: one had ever played that song anywhere near like that.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: And so anyway, you know, subsequently, after the album was released,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: they're up in the Bay Area. They do a press conference.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: You know, they they knew me, you know, because I
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: had talked to them recently and done this story that
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: had come out, and it was a very positive story
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: about about them, so you know, introducing them to the
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: world in a sense, and so so yeah, I mean
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: I took a lot of photographs of them at the
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: press conference, and there's others that are that are good
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: as well, but I really liked this one because they
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: did look turn their heads and look right at me,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: And those they look like three D sunglasses, like just
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: those cheap three D sunglasses you'd buy the movie theater.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: I think that's what they are. And those helmets that
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: they got, yeah, yeah, just just crazy.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, they but they were just so so smart
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: and and just so clever in terms of you know,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: they're the whole de evolution stick. And I mean, wait,
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: you look at what's going on in the world right now,
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: and they predicted you know, yeah, what.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: About the Ramones shot at the Tropicana Motel nineteen seventy eight.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: How do you end up at the hotel with the band?
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, they were going to come up to San
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Francisco and perform in the Bay Area, and so I
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: was doing stories among them many places I was writing
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: for back then. They were going to perform in the
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: Bay Area, and I was going to do a story
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: about them for the San Francisco Chronicles Sunday date book section.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: That's that section could could reach like as many as
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: two million people. And so so they were totally into
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: doing an interview. I mean I had interviewed them actually previously,
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: at least once. The first time they came to play
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: in San Francisco, I talked to them. They played a
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: small club the very first time, called the Savoy Tivoli
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: on Upper Grant Street in North Beach. But so this
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: time I flew down to La in advance and you know,
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: interview them, and I think we actually did the interview
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: in my room, and and so when I took the photograph,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: it was you know, they were basically standing in the
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: doorway of my hotel room when I got that shot.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: They were cool. I mean, they were cool guys. I
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: mean later, I kind of became friends with Joey Ramone
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: years later when I was doing the when I had
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: I had founded the Addicted to Noy's website, which was
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: the first, you know, the first internet music magazine, web magazine,
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: and so Joey Ramone ended up doing We did a
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: lot of sort of Ramon's road reports, where where jan
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: U Helski, you know, who used to work for Cream
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: and now work does some stuff for the new Cream.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: Jan was was doing stuff for my magazine Addicted to
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: Noise back then, and so she would talk to Joey
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: on the phone from the road and then you know,
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: record him and then put together a road report from
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: Joey Ramone, and then Joey would call me up and
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: we would we would talk. So we kind of became friends.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: But that was much later. I mean, that was in
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: the nineties. You know, this this picture was was you know,
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: Much much to who in nineteen seventy at the Berkeley
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: Community Theater, and there's one photo where he managed to
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: capture Roger Daltrey, Keith Moon, and Pete Townsend all in action.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: Pete's leaping into the air, and then you got Keith,
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: he's about to pound on the snare and he's got
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: that look on his face, that intense look on his face.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: And then Roger it looks like he's about to swing
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: the mic around like he famously does. More shots of
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: that like that of Roger, Peton Keith. So for those
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: of us who wish they could be at a nineteen
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: seventy who concert, please tell us what that experience was
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: like as a photographer and as a fan. How was that?
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: Well, the thing was, this was the summer that I
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: did that Hard Road magazine that I was telling you about.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: And so I don't know, I'm to remember. I think, yeah,
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: we were already we were going to do that magazine
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: that first issue when myself and some others when we
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: went to the Berkeley Community Theater. In the Berkeley Community Theater,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: I mean it was a make because it's a relatively
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: small denue. I mean it's maybe three thousand people. Can
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: you imagine seeing the Who, the original Who, in a
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: three thousand capacity theater trip. It was absolutely fantastic. And
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: by the way, Entwhistle is in this shot too, just
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: in the far left, you know, so it's the whole band.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: You capture the whole band. Yeah, and.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. I was really happy to get this shot,
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: I have to tell you. I mean, I just was,
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: really because I just I just felt that captured the
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: energy and the dynamics of the Who. I mean, Townshend
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: was just incredible. The way he would leap up up
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: in the air, and I mean and he would you know,
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: he would land on his knees. I mean, I think
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: he really messed up his knees ultimately. And he would
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: also you know, he would end up breaking a guitar.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: I mean it was crazy, crazy theatrics, but musically they
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: were just fantastic back then. I mean, you know, I
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: mean you could if you you know, the live album
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: that came out in those back in that period of time,
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: gives you a sense of how great that band was
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: when you saw them live. I mean it's a great
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: album and uh yeah, live at Leads and it's a
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: it's a great album and it really does capture that
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: they did. You know, they were doing some of the
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: material from Tommy at this show, and I don't remember
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: if Tommy had already come out or if it was
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: about to come out, but but I remember hearing some
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: of those songs and it was it was really cool
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: to hear that stuff.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: Amazing, just amazing time to be able to be part
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: of that whole scene when music was as powerful as
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: it was at that time, sixty nine seventy, you'd go
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: back to sixty seven with the doors. Just I envy you, man,
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: that was a great period.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: I was. I was lucky to be, you know, a
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: teenager back back then and to be able to go
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: to me and my parents were really cool. I mean
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: they were cool with me going to all kinds of shows,
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, So, I mean I'm seventeen and
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: me and my friends drive over to Berkeley were we
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: lived in Marin County, but we drove to Berkeley and
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: went to this show, and I from pretty early on,
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: I was very gutsy. I mean, this was a The
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: Berkeley Community Theater is a seated theater. Everyone has an
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: assigned seat, but I would like sneak up up in
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: the aisle up as close as I could get to
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: the stage and take pictures. And so that's how I
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: was able to get these close up shots because there
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: was no way I could have done that from where
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: we were sitting, and they didn't. Again, they didn't have
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, eventually someone from security might might you know,
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: come up to you and say, hey, you got to
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: go back to your seat, But it was again, it
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: wasn't like like now, you could never do that. First
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: of all, I mean you'd only have your cell phone.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: You could never get a real camera in unless you
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: were you know, a staff photographer for for someone, and
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: and and on top of that, you know, you'd get
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: the first three songs and that would be be it.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: But you know when I I mean I didn't have
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: any photo pass or any anything back then, you know,
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: at that point, you know, I mean I was a
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: high school kid, you know, and we were we were
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: just I mean, it's one thing, you know, Jerry Garcia
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: believed us that we were going to do this magazine.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: But you know, you tell anybody, any sort of authority
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: person you know, at a you know, at a theater
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: or a promoter or whatever, they're like, well, you're a kid,
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: what are you talking about? You know you're gonna do
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: a magazine. Yeah, sure, you know.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the Stones in seventy five. You got great
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: shots of that show. And then there's one of an
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: outdoor stadium and the caption reads, once upon a time
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Rock was King Spartan Stadium, San Jose, nineteen seventy eight.
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: Was that a Stone show too?
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: That wasn't a Stone show? That God, I'm not sure
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: who was playing for that one. I was trying to
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: figure it out, but but I thought it was. It
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: was a good shot to show, you know, to show
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: the sort of the packed stadium.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: Right right, I should describe it for the listeners. Yeah,
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: it's it's huge. It looks like it looks like it
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: could very well be a Stone show because it's a
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: huge stage and it's got quite a quite a setup there.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know how you describe it, but yeah, it's
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: it looks like it's definitely a major act. So I'm
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: thinking seventy eight, maybe it was the Stones, But okay,
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: I was curious, you're not sure.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't think it was the Stones. I don't
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: think they played there. In seventy five. The Stones played
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: the Cow Palace, and that's where my shots of the Stones,
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: including the cover of the book We're Taken. And the
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: thing was, again, well, you could you could get you
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: could get close up in the Cow Palace. You can
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: work your way up to the stage. You could also
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: there was an upper level at the Cow Palace where
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: there were seats and you could go all the way
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: right behind the stage and so so you could also shoot,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: you know, from kind of behind the band, and so
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: if they turned around then you could get a shot,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: you know. But yeah, they were that. It was the
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: Stones and then the Meters, the New Orleans band the
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: Meters were opening for the Stones, and I was I
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: was a huge fan of the Meters, and I had
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: I had photographed the Meters. There's some photos of them
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: in here that were taken when they were in the
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: recording studio in San Francisco, and you know, they ended
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: up becoming well some of them, you know, they were
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: the Neville Brothers. Later people probably know that Darreon Neville
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: Brothers better. They also know Aaron Neville who had had
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: a hit single himself back I don't know, early sixties
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: maybe something like that. But yeah, so the Stones were
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: big fans of the Meters, and so they had the Meters.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: The Meters were like they were like a New Orleans
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: booker T and the MG's. You know. They were an instrumental,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: mostly instrumental band, not always they ended up having some
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: singing singing as well, but it was their instrumental playing
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: and they backed up a lot of different people like
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: Alan Toussaint and other New Orleans musicians. The Meters would
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: be the backing band. They were a very cool band.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: Book on Rock Podcasts. Will be back after this. Now
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: you wait here, I'll be right back. Van Morrison at
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: the Old Waldorf in San Francisco, nineteen seventy eight. He
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: doesn't look too happy on stage, but I don't think
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: I've ever seen Van Morrison smiling. And I remember this
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: story about when you interviewed him, right was he pulled
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: up in the driveway, he sees you and then.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: He yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: No he You were scheduled to interview the guy, and
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: I think, like he didn't he just didn't want to
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: talk to you.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: No, no, what what? What what happened? Okay, what happened
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: was first I meet him at this restaurant in Mill
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: Valley and he does show up because he needs he
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: needs to have a story in the Chronicle Sunday date
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: Book because he's going to play a big facility in
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: the Bay Area. Okay, So so first he shows up
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: and we do this interview and he's just, I mean,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: he's just the most most difficult interview. I mean, he
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: doesn't really you know, he you know, he doesn't consider
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: what he does rock and roll. He doesn't like to
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: he doesn't like to look back and talk about what
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: he's done in the past. He he's just like every question,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: you know, he'll just you ask him a question and
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: he goes pass, you know, then you ask him another question,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: and then he will. I mean I got enough stuff
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: from him so that I had him, you know, I
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: was able to do piece for Rolling Stone. But but
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: the thing was he at a certain point he cuts
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: off the interview and he says, let's finish this up
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: next week, you know, And he tells me to come
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: to his house, you know, such and such a day,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: such and such a time. And I get there and
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: he's not there. I knock on his door, no answer. Well,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: he has this front like you can. You pull up
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: and there's a garage and this little parking area. This
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: is on Mount Tawmill pious, and then sort of below
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: where the parking area is is is like a yard,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: a big, a big yard, and there's some chairs there
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: and and then his house is sort of next to that.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: And so after I knock on the door and realize
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: he's not there, I walk into the garden area and
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: just take a seat. And I mean it's really beautiful there.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: I mean there's there's deer, there's there's birds and butterflies, hummingbirds,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: and just a beautiful scene. And I'm just quiet. I
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: just kind of hang out there and I don't know,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: a half hour hour, I don't remember. Now, I was
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: there for a while, and eventually he pulls up into
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: his driveway. He gets out of his car and he
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: looks down and he sees me, and I've already gotten
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: up and started walking up. And so I get up
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: to the where the where he's pulled in, and he's
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: starting to get back in his car a van. We're
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: supposed to finish up this interview, Come on, man, you know,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: something to that effect. And he's like, well, we can't
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: do it today. Call me, you know, call me, And
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: he gets in the car and takes off, and so
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: I called them. I called him, and I mean, I
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: don't get him. I get his message machine, I leave messages,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: but I never I didn't, you know, that was it.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: We did not, So I had to write my stories
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: based on, you know, part one of the interview.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: My older brother was just telling me about it. Some
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: time he went and saw Van Morrison. It was like
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: a forty minute show and he just decided that's it,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: I'm done. And everybody in the crowd was like, what
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: the hell, It's okay, I get no Encorey, just that's it,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: I'm done.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Would The thing that was cool about Van Morrison
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: was he was living in the Bay Area for quite
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: a while, and while he was living there, he would
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: do these Sometimes they'd be announced, but sometimes they were
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: pretty unannounced shows like somehow like the radio station Casan
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: would get word maybe and and so they would they
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: would say, hey, we we understand Van Morrison might might
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: show up at the end of the beginning tonight, or
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: he's gonna might be at the Lion's Share tonight. These
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: were different clubs, and so I mean, I saw him
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: at the Lion's Share one time. I saw him at
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: the end of the beginning at least once, if not twice,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: the Great American Music Hall one night. I saw him
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: at Winterland, a great set at Winterland one time. A
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: lot of different shows, and overall he was just he
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: was great almost pretty much every time. He was really
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: really good, brilliant. Yeah, but he could do Yeah, he
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: could do that. You know the size he's done forty minutes.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: That's it, you know.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: I just read a story about a song he wrote
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: that he gave to Sammy Hagar and I think maybe
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: they were on the same label, but it's called the
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: Flamingos Fly and then Sammy put it on his nineteen
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: seventy six solo album nine on a ten scale. And yeah,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: I guess he met Van at a story or at
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: a party or at the record plant or something. So
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: Van gives him the song and then they're just thinking,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: oh cool, maybe Van, Van, maybe you want to, you know,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: sing on the song with Sammy. No, not interesting, Okay,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: thanks man. It's just yeah, he's so unpredictable.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: He's one of a kind. Alice Cooper, his struggles with
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: alcohol well documented, and he's been clean and sover for
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: a long time. But you took photos of him in
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: seventy three. There's one on the on stage with the
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: snake around his neck. But there's another one where he's
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: pouring himself a drink and I think this is backstage.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: Is there a story behind this photo that you can share?
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: He's got some funky pants on to Well.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: The thing was, I mean, I was a huge, you know,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: Alice Cooper fan from when I'm Eighteen happened. When that
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: was on the radio, I was like, I mean I
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: had I already had a couple of his albums because
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: he had done two albums for I guess for Frank
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: Zappa's Straight label, which Herb Cohen had created a couple
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: of labels, Bizarre and Straight for Zappa, and Zappa was
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: signing artists and Alice Cooper did two albums for I
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: Think it was Straight. And but then he signed to
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: Warner Brothers for the album that had I'm eighteen. And
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: I became a big fan at that point. And so
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: this tour was the Billion Dollar Babies tour, and and
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: so I saw him play I can't remember, maybe in
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: the Bay Area first, and then I he was going
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: to play in the Arizona and so I had this
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: idea that I was going to drive too, you know,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: to Arizona to to where this this this auditorium was,
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: and uh, I think it was Tucson.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: This is where this one is from Arizona to he's from, Yeah,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: he is.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: Ya Tucson Convention Center. So so I drive to the
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: Tucson Convention Center in this this U sports car, this
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: that I had had somehow managed to I'd spent my
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: money that was I was supposed to spend on room
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: and board for college. I dropped out of college, and
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: so I spent the money on this sports car. And
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: so I drove the sports car to the Tucson Convention
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: Center and I get there in the kind of late afternoon,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: and I go to the backstage entrance and and there's
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: a security guard there and I say, I'm I'm a photographer.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: I need to get a back stage pass for tonight.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: And he says, well, you need to talk to you know,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: his road manager, because I can't. We can't just give
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: you a photo pass. But I'll tell you they're staying
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: at such and such a hotel that's you know, just
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: down the road. So you know, you go there and
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: the road manager is such and such, and maybe you'll
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: get your photo pass. So I go to the hotel
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: and I had brought along a whole bunch of slides
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: that I had taken of Alice Cooper at this previous
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: show that I had gone to just from the audience,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: and so I showed him some of the slides. I mean,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: I found the room that the guy that the road
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: manager was in and I told him who I was,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: and you know, you want to take some pictures tonight,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: look at these things. And so so he likes some
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: of the pictures, so he gives me a photo pass,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: and not only that, he get in a backstage pass,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: and and also I get to sort of hang out
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: with some of the people in the in the Cooper
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: band at the hotel. So so there's one photograph that's
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: here which is of you know, of drink Away, you know,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: and that's at the hotel in his hotel room, and uh,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: I really I really like that shot. And then I
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: took this picture these pictures backstage of Alice Cooper. I
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: mean there's there's three of them that were taken backstage,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: and and yeah, they just they just let me hang
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: out back there and take pictures, I mean, and he
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: didn't he didn't care, and I took a roll of slides.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: I took you know, a roll of black and white
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: back there. And and then they also let me be
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: on the stage during the set, and so I was
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: like sort of behind some of their like there was
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: the drum risers and stuff. There were just places where
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: you could be where the audience couldn't see you, but
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: you could take pictures. And so that's when I took
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: that picture of Alice and the snake.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: And but it was just I mean, I was nineteen
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: at that point, and it was just one of these
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: things where I was just this really you know, gutsy kid,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: and I would just I would just push things as
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: far as I could push them. I mean, I remember,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: this is crazy. It doesn't really have to do with
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: photographs here. But I would show up at the Fillmore
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: in San Francisco, the Fillmore West, and I would bring
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: a guitar along in a case, and I would show
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: up with this case and I would just walk right
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: in the front door and I would just say, yeah,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: I gotta go, I gotta take this backstage, and they
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: would let me walk in and I would just walk
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: right in. If I knew where the backstage was I'd
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: just just you know, walk back there and into the
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: backstage area, and then once I was back there, then
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: I would just kind of sit on a couch or
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: something and just kind of just be there and not
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: that is hang out. I mean that kind of stuff
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: That's what makes you a great rock journalist. I'm with
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: a band, Okay, yeah, go ahead, Oh no, what were
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: you say, I'm with the band? Yeah, go ahead, kid,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: you're all set. This shot of Alice, he's pouring a drink.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, was he hitting him hard? If do you
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: recall he was a heavy drinker in those days.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: I mean I was not focusing on on that. I
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: mean I was trying to get good portraits of him,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: and that one, I you know, I thought that turned
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: out to be a really good, good photograph of him.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: You know, I like the close up of him, the
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: color close up of him as well. I mean I
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: think that a strong is a strong photo too.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: That's a really that that's actually I'm surprised, but that
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: that's when you did that they could put make a
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: poster out of or using an album. Look at the
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: size of that snake man thing's huge. Yeah, that's just crazy, crazy,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: and he's got that look on his menacing look on
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: his face with the eye makeup.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a he was a great performer back then,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: and he had a lot of really strong songs. You know,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: there's there's like at least three albums, you know, starting
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: with the one when I'm eighteen, that there's just tons
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: of great songs on those three.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: Albums Bob produced album.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: Well you're looking at this shot and you speak kindly
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: of this. Do you have a favorite photo from the book,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: one that really said I'm most proud of. Maybe it's the.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: Jim Morrison, it's your first It's it's not like there's
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: just one photo that I mean, I I put I
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: included these photos. I mean, I have a lot more
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: photos than I took, but I included these photos because
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: I felt they were I felt like like each one
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: of them was a really strong photograph and and I
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: I wanted my idea was that each photo should stand
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: on its own, Like if you weren't a fan of
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: these particular musicians, but you liked the good photography, that
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: these photographs would stand stand up to that. And you
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: know that's I mean, I'm sure that not every single
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: photo that's the case with but but I feel like
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: most most of them, I feel like that is the case.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: And decision to use Mick Jagger for the cover, that's
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: a really cool shot of him up close.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: I mean I actually I was thinking of using something else,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: and then then it got down to it. We needed it,
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: We needed something, a different photo, and so I just thought,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: I thought it was a really cool photograph of him,
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: and you know, close up, like where where it was
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: just his head. I thought, you know, it's an unusual
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: photograph because of the way his hair is falling. You know,
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: it's a side view view of him, he's the lips.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: I felt like it sort of showed him in a
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: little bit different light than than we usually see see
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: And I thought it made I thought it made for
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: a really strong cover. And I like the idea that
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: the front of the book has Nick Jagger, you know,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: one of the best known rock stars there's ever been.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: And then the back of the cover is a photograph
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: of Frankie Fixed from a San Francisco punk band called
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: Crime that probably no one has ever heard of. And
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: so I really liked the juxtaposition of that and and
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: the book really mixes it up in terms of I mean, yeah,
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: I mean you have you know, you have people like
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: you know, Jim Morrison and Van Morrison and the Stones
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: and the Who and Alice Cooper and Frank Zappa, you
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: know people you know, you know, artists that people really know,
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: Emmy Lou Harris, Muddy Water Water, you know. But then
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: it has but then it has artists that people don't
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: know so so well, like you know, like the Avengers,
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: like Crime, like the Dills, like you know, a bunch
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: of bunch of artists from the San Francisco punk scene.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: You know. So it's really it's really eclectic. I mean,
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: you know, it's George Clinton. It's got George Clinton. And
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: then it's got you know, this guy who was the
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: auto Hart player with Rocky Erickson, you know who was
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: in the thirteenth floor elevators, you know, who had had
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: the hit You're going to miss me. I mean, I
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: just thought it was a cool picture of that of
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: that guy, and so I will how to include it. Yeah,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: you know, from Jerry Garcia to you know, you know,
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: Phil Alvin O the Blasters, you know. I mean it's
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: really very eclectic. You have artists that all did I
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: did you.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: Know book on Rock Podcasts. We'll be back after this.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: Be right back with a snack, Jack go away.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: Joel Salvin did the forward, and I had Joel on
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: the show recently to talk about that book he did
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: on Jim Gordon. Have you read his book on Jim Gordon?
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: You read it?
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: I haven't read it, but I know about it. I'm
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: wanting to read it.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, I must read, must read. And Joel's a great guest.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: Had him on recently. So do you know Joel? Well,
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: how did you get him to do the forward for
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: the book?
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: I have known Joel since probably seventy four, when I
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: was working at the Chronicle, San Francisco Chronicle as a
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: copy person. You know, I was, I don't know, twenty
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: years old or something something like that, twenty one, I
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: don't know. And and Joel was the rock critic at
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: the Chronicle, and he was fairly young too back then.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: You know, he's a little older than me, but not much.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: And so so we we met back then, and I was,
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to get into the Chronicle. I
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: wanted to write about you know, rock for the Chronicle,
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: and eventually I started doing that for the Sunday Sunday Chronicle.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: But I think I don't know if this is true.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: Back there then I felt like Joel didn't have time
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: for me. You know, who's this this copy boy who
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: he's you know, he's got got these these aspirations. And
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know he might have later, I don't know.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: But anyway, then as time went on, we became friends.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: And and then later still, you know, when I started
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: working for Rolling Stone, and we you know, we knew
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: knew each other, and then at once then I started
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: Addicted to Noise and for a while Joel was writing
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: book reviews for Addicted to the Noise, and uh, you know,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: and so anyway, by by the time I started doing
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: like like with the Wilsey book, you know, Joel, Joel
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: gave me a blurb for the back cover of the
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: Wilsey book, which was really nice of him. And and
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: then you know, I asked him if he would write
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: the forward to this book. You know, I sent him,
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of the photographs so he could
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: he could see what was going to be in it,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: and you know, and he was really I mean, he
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: had no idea really that I was a photographer. I mean,
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: even though some of my pictures had been with articles
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: in the Sunday Date Book. I don't think he was
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: really paying attention to that, you know, back back then,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: and so he was really surprised one that I was
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: a photographer too, and then as well that the photographs
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: were strong, and so yeah, he was up for doing
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: doing the forward. I was. I'm really glad that he
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: did it because.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a really fantastic writer like yourself. Yeah, this
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: is what he leads with. Michael Goldenberg has always been avid.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: That is his superpower. That's what he leads with. Yeah,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: and then he finishes with These photos come from a
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: time when rock lived in its own world. Mass media
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: paid little attention to the coming comings and going of
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: the field, and if you wanted photographs, you had to
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: be there to take them. Goldberg was there. You go, yeah,
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: very nice. Yeah yeah, Okay, So the book now is
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: coming out later this month, you say, right, so people
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: should go and exac end of July.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: It's h o z a c Com. Okay, I think.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: I'm looking to hear it records dot com?
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: Is it okay? Hose that? Okay, I'm wrong ozak Records
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: dot Com. And if you go there, you'll see the
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: book on the It's on the front page of there.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: If you just scroll down a little you'll see see
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: if there's a hardback and there's a paperback. And the
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: hardback is very limited edition. There's only going to be
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty of them. We've we've they've already
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: sold like a third of those. There's like ninety nine
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: of those left. The paperback there's gonna be I think
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: five hundred of those and they'll that'll'll reprint the paperback,
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: so it's not like that's gonna we're going to run
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: out of paperback copies. But but anyone who wants at
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: hard back should go and check it out. And there's
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: a number of photographs on on the hose Ac site,
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: so you can get a little bit idea what the
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: photos are like, uh, from there. And that's going to
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: be the cheapest place to get the book, just because
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: you're buying directly from the publisher, and uh if you
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: end up buying buying from Amazon, it'll cost you a
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: little bit more. So anyway, that's yeah, that's so if
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: you want to get it, that's where where you ought
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: to go. You know, if people go to my Facebook page,
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: for example. They will they'll find some you know, they
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: scroll down, they'll find some blurbs about it with links
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: to the hose AC site and some info, and you know,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: there's a you know, there's a list of like a
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: whole bunch of the artists that are in the book.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: And you know, most of the photographs have not been
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: seen before. I mean some of them. Some of them
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: have been seen in a very limited way. You know,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: like like they you know, like the Chronicle would like
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: take take the picture of Ramble and Jack Elliott and
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: just crop his it to his face and run his face,
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: you know, really tiny as part of the part of
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: the stories, you know, the story. So nobody ever saw
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: the full picture. And with this book, the book is
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: ten inches by nine inches and for most of the photographs,
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: it's one photograph per page, so they're really really a
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: nice size and.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, beautifully laid out.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: I'm really very proud proud of the book.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: Yep, so late July it's out. Jozachrecords dot Com will
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: put a link to that in the show notes page.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: People can check that out and pre ordered it. They
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: can pre order it now so when it's when it's ready,
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: it'll be set.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean if the pre order it, they'll mail
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: it out. Like the day they get the books in,
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: they'll start put them in the mail. Hoo. Zac is
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: really good about that.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: Cool all right, Michael, thank you again. It was great
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: to have you on and visit number four coming. Who knows,
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: we'll see, stay tuned. Anything planned, any books planned, we'll see. Yeah.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: No. The other thing. The other thing I'm doing right now,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: which is actually kind of concurrent with this book coming out,
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: is I've curated a show in San Francisco for your
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: San Francisco listeners on the San Francisco punk scene of
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: the late seventies. And it's called We Are the One
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: San Francisco Punk nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties. And that
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: show was at the Hate Street Arts Center and it's
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: going to run from July twenty fifth through September twenty second,
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: and there's going to be an opening party from six
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: to nine on August second, and it's going to be
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: a really cool show. I've got some of the best
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: photographers San Francisco photographers who were covering the punk scene
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: in the late seventies have contributed photographs. We have over
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty photographs, including some of mine, and
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: concurrent with that, I'm going to have about thirty six
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: or so of my photographs from this book. We'll be
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: exhibited in another gallery that's at the Hate Center, So
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: if you're in San Francisco during that time, check it out.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: I think you'll find it, you'll dig it.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sounds like an awesome time, all right, Michael, Thank
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: you so much for being on and best of luck
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: with the new book. I'm sure people are going to
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: love it. Look forward to having you back on again
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: sometime down the road.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much. That's it. It's in the books.