Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Emotional Intelligence and Thriving in Healthcare with Dr. David Fessel

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Emotional Intelligence and Thriving in Healthcare with Dr. David Fessel · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:01
  This is where health care leadership comes together.
• 0:04
  Becker's sixteenth annual meeting brings more than 3,500
• 0:07
  hospital and health system executives and nearly 800
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  speakers to Chicago
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  April.
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  This year's event includes keynote conversations with Dallas
• 0:17
  Cowboys legend Troy Aikman and former president George
• 0:20
  w Bush. For the agenda and event details,
• 0:22
  visit beckershospitalreview.com
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  and click on the events tab in the
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  upper right. We're looking forward to hosting you
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  in Chicago.
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  This is Scott Becker with the Becker's Healthcare
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  Podcast.
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  I am thrilled today to be joined by
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  a brilliant physician and brilliant thinker. We're joined
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  today by doctor David Fessel. And doctor Fessel
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  is gonna talk to us about emotional intelligence,
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  what it means and how important it is
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  in the health care landscape, and a lot
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  more.
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  David, can you take a moment to introduce
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  yourself and tell us about what you do
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  and about your career?
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  Sure. Great to be here. Thanks for having
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  me, Scott.
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  I'm a retired radiologist now from the University
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  of Michigan.
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  Now an author, speaker, coach.
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  I write and speak about emotional intelligence, wellness,
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  how positive emotions help us, including humor.
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  And I really love the framework of emotional
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  intelligence, how it's all about awareness and action
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  for ourselves, for others. I use it a
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  lot more personally and in the work I
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  do.
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  And talk about your transition
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  from practicing radiologist
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  and your career a little bit and and
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  how you transitioned into doing this, and what
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  was the driver of that? What excited you
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  about moving in this direction and and more?
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  Sure. Yeah. It all started maybe,
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  twelve, fifteen years ago when I was working
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  with a coach personally as the coachee, and
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  I found that I found that to be
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  so very helpful that inspired me to wanna
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  become a coach.
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  And so I did. I got trained as
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  a coach, and then I got into leadership
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  development in our medical school,
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  headed up our leadership development program with our
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  medical students for a couple of years. And
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  along that, along that journey, started learning more
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  about emotional intelligence
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  and found it to be so helpful and
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  wished I had learned about it maybe twenty,
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  thirty years earlier.
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  And then because I found it so helpful,
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  it was so, natural and easy for me
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  to wanna write about it, to speak about
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  it, to share it. You know, you probably
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  know that saying, we teach that which we
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  wish we had learned many years ago. Well,
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  that's certainly the truth for me with the
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  martial intelligence. I can look back on
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  prior jobs,
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  prior positions I held, prior relationships.
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  And,
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  without a doubt, if I had had more
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  emotional intelligence, those would've went better for everyone
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  including me and and everyone else involved. So
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  I love the framework. I've found it to
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  be so helpful, again, both personally and in
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  the coaching I do and health care. I've
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  got a a webinar coming up, emotional intelligence
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  for physicians coming up on Wednesday this week.
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  So it's just, a wonderful framework. Happy to
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  dive into it more if you want, if
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  it's a good time for that. No. Thank
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  you so much, sir. Professor. Well, take a
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  second on how do you define emotional intelligence.
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  Let's start there, and then let's talk about
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  why is it so important to physicians, to
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  hospitals, health care leaders, nurses.
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  You know? And I think we all intuitively
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  think
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  what emotional intelligence is,
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  but probably not nearly as rigorously and as
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  thoughtfully as as you do. Talk to us
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  about what is emotional intelligence, and why is
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  it so important in health care?
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  Sure. Sure. Great question.
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  Yes. Emotional intelligence is the ability to be
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  aware of our emotions and others
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  and to use that information to guide our
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  behaviors and our actions. So it's a simple
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  concept, as you said, almost intuitive. We know
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  that if we're better with our own emotions,
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  if we're better with other people's emotions, that
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  things are gonna go more smoothly. But, there
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  are some definite skills that we can learn.
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  Everyone can learn them. That's a common misconception
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  about emotional intelligence that it's innate or we
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  have it or we don't. No. It's definitely
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  a learnable skill. I've,
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  grown, I hope, immensely in my in my
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  skills in it. I'd love to teach it,
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  and it's definitely something we can all learn
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  and improve on and boost if we give
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  it some attention and, some energy.
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  Thank you so much. And and talk about
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  if you're
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  a CEO of a health system,
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  if you're a nurse,
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  if you're a physician,
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  how can you improve your emotional intelligence
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  And where does that fit in trying to
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  improve your emotional intelligence?
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  Sure. Sure. Great question. I love that question.
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  Yes. We can all improve our emotional intelligence.
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  The first quadrant of of emotional intelligence, there's
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  four quadrants. Self awareness is the first one.
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  Self management is the second one. Then it
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  switches to others, social awareness
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  and relationship management. So simple four quadrant system.
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  Start with self awareness. How do we increase
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  our self awareness?
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  Begins with simple I love to talk about
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  simple micro practices.
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  This this, practice comes from two physicians,
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  from the University of Michigan, Sanjay Saint and
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  Vinit Chopra. They talk about when we're washing
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  our hands. As physicians and health care workers,
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  we do this, you know, dozens of times
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  a day. Use that as a little self
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  check-in.
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  How am I doing? How's my energy level?
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  Am I hungry? Am I thirsty? Am I
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  sleepy? Do I need to get better earlier
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  tonight? Do I need to exercise?
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  Do I need to connect with somebody that
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  gives me a lift? Do I need to
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  share some laughs?
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  Use those things that are built into our
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  day, or maybe it's a bathroom break. You
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  know? Bathroom breaks are about certainly taking care
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  of our business, but we can use them
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  as a self care check as well.
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  An opportunity to say, hey. How am I
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  doing? It's my intention for how I wanna
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  show up. Is that matching the impact, the
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  results that I'm getting? Do I need to
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  make some adjustments?
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  Another great way to increase our self awareness
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  is with feedback,
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  and we can generate that feedback ourselves with
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  journaling.
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  That's a wonderful practice. I love to talk
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  about that and to, encourage my coachees to
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  journal. Doesn't have to be every day, but
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  at least several times a day. At the
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  end of the day, and some people do
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  it at the beginning of the day, whatever
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  works for you. But just to stop and
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  say, hey. How was my day? What energized
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  me today? Love that question. It's a wonderful
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  question. What energized me today? Look for the
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  patterns of time. The things that energize you,
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  things that deenergize you. Maybe you can delegate
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  some of those things that deenergize you or
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  work on ways to improve them. But what
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  energized me today? That is a beautiful question.
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  And, if you're in a relationship,
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  your your partner is a a natural source
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  of feedback. So ask them. People that solicit
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  feedback can get some great feedback. People that
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  you know, that trust, that you trust, that
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  you know are on your team, they can
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  give constructive helpful feedback. Ask them, hey. You
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  know, I'm looking to improve
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  improve how I lead, improve,
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  my relationships, improve our team. What ideas do
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  you have? What feedback do you have for
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  me? And then listen.
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  And talk about that asking for feedback because
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  so many of us are scared to do
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  that. We're hesitant to ask for that feedback.
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  For sure, we won't hear something we wanna
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  hear. Like, we're always willing to ask for
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  feedback when we know we performed well.
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  And many of us hate to ask for
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  it when we know we're not performing, get
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  our best. Sure.
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  Yeah. That's this is a great point. And,
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  there's a wonderful,
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  book by Marsha Goldsmith called what got you
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  here won't get you there. And the key
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  point from that book, the key point he
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  talks about when you get feedback,
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  simple response,
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  two words,
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  thank you.
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  Thank you. And you may wanna even tell
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  people upfront when you're asking for feedback is
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  when you give me feedback, I'm gonna say
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  thank you so that they know you're not
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  gonna be defensive. You're not gonna be argumentative
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  or debate it or or negate it. You're
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  gonna say thank you. And then you have
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  an opportunity to
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  analyze it and assess it. Not all feedback
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  is great feedback. Not all feedback is true
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  or honest or helpful. But when we start
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  asking for feedback with the people that we
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  know, that we trust,
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  you have a higher likelihood and and higher
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  chance of getting feedback that's really gonna be
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  helpful. And if you say thank you, and
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  then you act on it, and they see
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  that you're serious about improving,
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  and it can be a wonderful thing both
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  for you and for that relationship.
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  You you mentioned the concept of noticing
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  when you're feeling right
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  and trying to do more of that. And
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  I don't know if I said that right,
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  but noticing when you're you're feeling like you're,
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  you know, healing yourself well
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  or engaging the right way or energized.
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  Yes. And and how do you track that
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  stuff so you become better and better
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  at constantly trying to do that?
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  Any advice or thoughts on that? Yeah. Yeah.
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  Great question. There's there's different ways to track
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  it and find one that works for you.
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  I mean, journaling one, I think, is really
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  helpful. I do that myself personally at the
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  end of the day. What what energized me?
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  What did I do today? Am I getting
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  my regular exercise?
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  Something that I started during, COVID was taking
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  a daily walk outdoors,
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  and that is a wonderful thing to connect
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  with nature,
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  notice the speed of the clouds across the
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  sky that day,
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  the sunshine,
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  how the seasons are changing,
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  sounds of the bird, whatever it is that
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  energizes you, that that does it for you,
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  whether it's a daily exercise routine, whether it's
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  a check-in with your spouse or your kids
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  or time with your pets, whatever it is
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  that energize you, track it. You know? Some
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  people like spreadsheets. Some people like to do
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  stuff on their phone. There's all kinds of,
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  you know, electronic
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  gizmos and trackers and reminders and beepers, whatever
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  that, you can you can use if that's
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  your thing. I just like to keep it
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  simple, pen and paper and a journal. But
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  do whatever works for you, but track it
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  in some way. Track it in some way.
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  I think that is key. That is so
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  helpful. People like visual trackers. If you're a
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  visual person like me, radiologist,
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  visual reminders can be key posted in a
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  place where you see it, whether it's, you
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  know, on your door, on your computer screen,
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  on your dash of your car, wherever it
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  is. Have it visible. Have it accessible. Have
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  it make it easy to track and to
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  see, and then keep the street going. You
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  know? Jerry Seinfeld loves to talk about this.
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  You know? When he was, writing comedy and
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  and doing his get some routines, he would
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  have a calendar. Every day, he put an
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  x on that calendar to show that he
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  was working on his routine. And he said
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  it was so inspiring, so energized. He didn't
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  wanna break it. Didn't wanna break that streak.
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  You know, get a streak going if that
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  energizes you. And and use it. Use what
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  energizes you.
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  And and and they
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  love that.
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  Let let me ask you one more question,
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  about when you work with somebody on coaching,
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  give me the core of how you work
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  with them and and what you do.
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  Tell us a little bit about how you
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  work with people.
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  Sure. Sure. Great question. Yeah. First of all,
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  it's getting to know them, Getting to know
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  them. What's their situation in life? What are
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  their stressors? What are their goals? What are
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  their values? What brings meaning and purpose to
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  their life and to the world?
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  And from that, from what they value, that's
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  really the key. Getting people in touch with
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  their values. Having another great thing that's been
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  really helpful is having reminders of that around
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  your life in your office, pictures of family,
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  pictures of pets, pictures of vacation spots, things
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  that inspire you, have those reminders in your
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  world. Some people have it on the key
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  chain. I know a guy that was wanting
• 11:03
  to buy
• 11:04
  a a place in, Grand Cayman, I think,
• 11:06
  and he had a little picture of that
• 11:07
  on the key chain. So every time he
• 11:08
  pulled that out, he'd see it and remind
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  him that it's working for that goal. You
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  know, to have these visual reminders, these things
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  in your life,
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  can be really, really helpful. But, yeah, getting
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  to know the person is key, what they
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  value, setting some goals. Goals can be really,
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  really helpful.
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  What supported them in the past? What's their
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  challenges currently? Is it
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  health challenges physical? Is it
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  some,
• 11:30
  ways of thinking? Is it some scheduling issues?
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  Is it they're getting crushed at work with
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  burnout?
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  Find out what the stressors are, and then,
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  you know, work slowly. I like to start
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  small, micro practices step by step, track it,
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  and, see some improvement, build some momentum from
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  that. And then, the ball can be rolling
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  downhill. It can be a lot of fun
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  and be very, very helpful. I found it,
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  as I said, coaching to be so helpful
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  for me personally. That's why I became one.
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  That's why I love to work with people
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  as a coach.
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  And and and, doctor Fessel, let me ask
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  you if you're ready for a test question
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  to test emotional intelligence.
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  Can you are you ready for that?
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  Ready. Let's go. Alright. So here's the question.
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  I happen to be a fan of the
• 12:12
  University of Illinois, what what is known as
• 12:14
  the Fighting Illini.
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  Yep. You're a University of Michigan
• 12:17
  guy. You're actually wearing a University of Michigan
• 12:20
  hat, a big Go Blue fan.
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  Your team
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  just trounced my team in basketball. So so
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  last week or so, the twenty seventh, Illinois
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  played Michigan. Illinois ranked about tenth. Michigan ranked
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  second or third. And Michigan just really, you
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  know,
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  beat up on us all over the court,
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  up and down, outplayed us, outathleticized
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  us, everything. It just wasn't even really a
• 12:45
  close game.
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  How do you console somebody
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  who has lost that badly? Their team has
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  lost that badly to your team. What do
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  you say to them? Do you do you
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  pour salt on the wound, or do you
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  tell them it's okay? How do you deal
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  with that? Yeah. No. I I definitely wouldn't
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  pour salt on the wound. I would say,
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  hey. I've been there. You know, two years
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  ago, my my team was, I think, eight
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  in 24. Only won eight games the whole
• 13:09
  season. That was just two seasons ago. So
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  things can change quickly. Your team is strong.
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  I mean, they've only, what, lost, what, four
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  or five games all season. They're gonna be
• 13:17
  in the NCAA tournament.
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  I'm sure they'll learn from from that experience
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  just as Michigan
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  will learn from getting beat by Duke couple,
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  week or two ago. You know? Number one
• 13:27
  and number two in the country, I think,
• 13:28
  playing, and Michigan got beat by Duke. So
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  these kind of experiences can be great for
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  learning, and they might face again in the
• 13:35
  NCAA tournament. And what they learn might
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  held them on to victory against Michigan against
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  other teams.
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  So it's, it's a tough one. I hear
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  you. I empathize with you, and, good things
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  can come from.
• 13:47
  Right. So you have a higher level of
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  maturity than I do because I am sure
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  if Illinois had beaten Michigan, I wouldn't be
• 13:54
  so sweet and so nice and so sincere.
• 13:57
  I'd be more aggressive
• 13:58
  about it, but it is what it is.
• 14:00
  Doctor Felson, what a pleasure to visit with
• 14:02
  you on the Beckerts HealthCare podcast. David, tell
• 14:04
  us where people could learn more about you
• 14:06
  and what you do.
• 14:08
  Yes. I post, on LinkedIn about these topics,
• 14:10
  emotional intelligence, positive emotions, humor, creativity.
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  Post there four or five times a week.
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  You can follow me there. I have a
• 14:17
  website, davidfestival.com.
• 14:19
  You can see some of my articles there
• 14:21
  for free and hear more about my coaching
• 14:23
  and and contact me through that website or
• 14:25
  through LinkedIn.
• 14:27
  David, thank you so much for joining us
• 14:29
  today. What what a pleasure to visit. Thank
• 14:31
  you so much for joining us. Great to
• 14:32
  be with you, Scott. Thanks for having.