Latest / The Unconducted Curriculum / Episode 12: From proficient to Distinguished: Transforming Teaching in the Rehearsal Hall
Transcript
- Chris: Welcome to the Unconducted Curriculum Podcast. This week's episode is titled From Proficient to Distinguished: What Exceptional Teaching Looks Like in the Band Hall. What would happen if we evaluated our rehearsals by how much our students learned rather than how much music we covered? And there is a difference. I think we've all, had moments where we're in a rehearsal and maybe we ask students a question about something that we feel like they definitely should know and they don't. They can't answer it. and a lot of that is because at many times we're always feeding them the information and we're not actually getting them to think about the question and think about what they hear So some discussion points that we have for today and we're going use a guide that I have created. it's a T test for instrumental music and it's a guide to distinguished teaching for band and orchestra directors. This outline follows the guide's four major areas: planning, instruction, learning environment, professional practices. But I developed this when I became a student teacher supervisor to better explain what the rubric looks like, what we look like in the band hall or the orchestra hall, you know, how we teach, And how does that compare to the rubric? Because that's the biggest question that I get is well, what does this mean in the band hall? What does this look like in the band hall? And a lot of times the folks who are evaluating us don't really know either. and so yeah, tina: Right. Chris: and so this is something that I've d developed and it's been through a recent revision. I've totally redone it. because I originally developed it for my student teachers to be proficient, and now I've kind of re worked it to where the goal is to be distinguished. So it's not just for student teachers anymore. but it works for proficient all the way up to distinguished. so by the end of today's conversation, I'm hoping that listeners should be able to recognize the difference between proficient teaching and distinguished teaching. Identify practical strategies for improving rehearsal planning and instruction, create greater student ownership, accountability, and engagement, which that's where I kind of focus a lot with. folks that I mentor, student teachers and other directors, is in that area. Use assessment and reflection to make better instructional decisions and apply T test principles to everyday rehearsals, not just observation days. And I'll be honest, when I was in the classroom, I didn't have a lot of faith in the T test rubric or really understand how it actually applied to me. and part of that too is in my last fifteen years of teaching, I can only remember having one formal observation. everything was always based on, our contest results. And they would put a write-up in my box and it would just be distinguished on everything because we were First division band, state qualified band, all that kind of stuff. but nobody ever actually came and, you know, evaluated me. So I didn't tina: Yeah. Chris: put a lot of stock in the T test rubric. but now that I've been using it and observing student teachers and working with young band directors in this area, I think there really is a lot of things once you kind of dissect it. that if we do on a daily basis, it really does help our band programs be a lot better. and so that's what I've tried to do with the with the document. tina: Chris, you're saying that what the public sees and everything, and that's part of what they're scoring you or doing on like for high school, but middle school, there is some public performances and some things like that. But I think Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: they are more administrators are more in our classrooms evaluating us. And so like all of these points that we're about to go through. were really looked at. And a lot of times some of the administrators would come up to me and say, band and you should be an example for this because it falls into the lap of what we do every day. doing like almost every point. Chris: I agree. I mean, I think this is middle school directors are much it's much more consistently that they're observed and maybe even have walkthroughs and all that kind of stuff. You know, and I had principals that would come out to morning rehearsals on the marching man field and just kind of stand and watch, but they tina: Right. Chris: weren't really observing. They were just enjoying watching. tina: I think that they do have to record certain whatevers. They might not have had a laptop or anything out there and they probably went back and put notes in, maybe. Yeah, some could be doing that for sure. Cause I'd have people Chris: Could be, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. tina: like if we had a rehearsal on a stage, when I taught high school, like that they would be there listening, not having anything, and then I'd end up something would end up being emailed to me about my rehearsal. And I didn't even know they were there, because I can't see Chris: yeah. tina: them. So I do think that they can sneak in more, and I don't mean that. as a rude thing, but I think they can, observe more at the high school level where you're they're not as seen as much. But in a middle school level, you see them walk in, you And and I always like introduce them, hey, there's Mr. and Mrs. So and so. Everybody say good morning and we'd all say good morning Chris: Right. tina: and you know and then go on from there. Like we'd greet anyone that would come in Chris: Yeah, absolutely. so let's get into this. I think I already stated the opening question, which was what would tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: happen if we evaluated our rehearsals by how much our students learned, rather than how much music we covered. And that's something that I think is important because it's about how you structure your rehearsal and what your goal is for the day. and and too often in rehearsals we'll walk in and We're just running through music from beginning to end and we may stop and fix something here or there, but we don't have real specific goals for that rehearsal. And we haven't thought about what do we want the students to to know, but more importantly, what tina: Right. Chris: what do they we want them to be able to tell us in that learning, you know, from what we're teaching them. many directors spend enormous amounts of time preparing for performances and competitions and concerts, which that's that's big part of what we do. But a productive rehearsal is not necessarily the same as an effective instructional experience. and what I mean by that is, and we're in this time right now where we're gonna be, you know, bands are preparing for area contest. And, you know, that's a lot of directors. Giving feedback, giving feedback, giving feedback. tina: Right. Chris: And this and I think this time of the year that's appropriate for sure. but do the students really understand the why? Do they understand why we're working on this? Do they understand what the outcome needs to be? that type of thing? are you asking them a few questions here and there to understand tina: Right. Chris: what are they listening to on the field? Can they hear what they need to hear? You know, tina: Mm-hmm. Yes. Chris: those tina: or point to whatever side it is if it's the woodwind side if you're on the two different sides to have them point Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: to who who are you supposed to be listening to or watching who you know they have to Chris: Right, right. tina: know are they listening to battery are they watching the drum major in front of them all of that but have them respond it doesn't take long and also you can see Chris: No. tina: the kids that do not know and even this time of year where you're getting ready for area you still have to point those things out and even like breathe Chris: Yeah, 'cause tina: breathing things Are you in breathing group one? Raise your hand. Are you in breathing breathing Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: group two? Raise your hand. It's just that also they feel involved, like you're saying, but it it's giving them an opportunity to tell you that they know it. They they understand. And it also puts their brains engaged more to what the activity is for that day. Chris: Right, exactly. And and that's the point is having them be more engaged in the learning process, and so are students learning to recognize, diagnose, and correct problems, or are they waiting for the director to tell them what to fix? And again, this time of the year we're getting into such detailed work that needs to come from the director for most of the time. But it doesn't hurt to give your students the opportunity, especially your student leaders, the opportunity to say, Hey, I'm noticing we're having a little spacing problem, or so and so we're arriving a little bit early to the set, and just kind of giving that feedback as well. tina: Right. Right. Yeah. Chris: I think that's important at this time of the year as well. tina: Right. Well, and also in middle school, sometimes this is the time where you're going from pet music, you know, to Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: concert music or your concert music sounds like pet music, because I think like pet songs can be louder. I think it's a great way of teaching put a lot of air through your instruments with good controlled sounds. Cause it's way easier to back down a good full sound to a mezzo forte to a piano because they they understand more about how the air is and how much it has to spin through the instruments. But it's the time right now where it's okay, so we're getting good sounds, everybody's big and full and it's you know pretty balanced. So now let's try to make it sound more like a concert band and get their brain like what's the difference between, you know, Chris: Yes. tina: a pet band tune and what's the difference between a concert tune that we're about to perform for a fall concert or maybe for your December concert. It's a great opportunity to get them to kind of explain what the difference is and what are they listening for now. Chris: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, especially when you're doing those transitions, you know, tina: Yes. Chris: asking those types of questions is great. So overall in this episode, before we get into to part one of the rubric, which is the planning section, we want, tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: you know, how can the T test framework help directors improve teaching without losing sight of musical excellence? And I think that's the big thing that that I hear a lot is, well, this doesn't really do anything, for musical excellence. And For our competition results and things like that. And, I kind of want to to push back on that and say, yes, tina: Yeah. Chris: it can. And so we're gonna, explain that today. So let's examine the four areas that shape effective teaching. Okay. So the first one is planning. rehearsals with a purpose, And tina: yes. Chris: and when I say planning, I don't necessarily need you to go through the whole structure of a formal lesson plan with all this, other stuff that that your district may have you put. I use what's what's basically is a practical lesson plan where I can sketch out what I want to work on specifically on this this section of the music or this this selection of music or these fundamentals, you know, and kind of sketch it out. by minute throughout the the rehearsal. These are the things that we need to be working on in this rehearsal. And I think a a big part of that planning is to write clear, measurable objectives for each rehearsal. And when I say measurable, like you need to be able to to see improvement at the end of the rehearsal. Can you measure growth by the end of the rehearsal? And how do you measure that growth? What tina: Uh-huh. Chris: what are you doing to measure that growth? tina: And you know, d right, right. And also having Chris: And can and can students actually, you know, feel growth. tina: a a plan on the board, you know, and Chris: Yes. tina: even if you do, what I like to do is I'd put the week of something to something, Monday through Friday. It's a general thing up there, what's coming up that's important, all that, but also Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: I would I would change the plan each day, and I'd have an objective up there at the top, asking Chris: Yes. tina: a question or whatever, why is where we breathe important in all of our music that we're doing, and try to include that during the week with all everything that's going on. But the kids knew and also to kind of like point it out on the board This is what we're doing today. This is really what we're concentrating on. And it's like we've said in the other podcasts, like it could be the articulation, could be one week Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: or a few days or however you're gonna do that. But for them to clearly know what they're supposed to do, and also we can't overcrowd their brains with too many things to think about. So Chris: Right. tina: yeah, same, same thing for logic. Chris: Yeah, you know, and we talked about yeah, we talked about this way back at the beginning of the season, you know, tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: with using lesson launch pad and having all of that stuff up there for them for them to to tina: Yes. Mm-hmm. Chris: see. and making sure that you align your learning goals with the teaks, you know, that's that is for tina: True. Chris: your administrators more than anything, you know, tina: Yes. Chris: but you've you've got to be able to show that. what you're doing is aligning with the teaks. And the teaks are so vague in so many ways that that's tina: Mm. They really are. Chris: really simple to do. I'm not one that's gonna put the teaks up on the screen for the kids tina: No. Chris: to see. I'm not even gonna put them in my practical lesson plan. I'm just gonna make sure that I know what we're aligning to just in case I'm asked, you know, by an tina: Right. Chris: administrator, that type of thing. identify specific musical challenges instead of rehearsing entire selections without a clear purpose. And that's the biggest thing when you're planning. I mean, you don't have to rehearse the whole piece. You and you shouldn't spend the whole period on one piece of music. Because students will really get bored and tune out, and you'll start losing tina: No. Right. Yep. Chris: them in the learning process. But tina: And also don't start at the beginning every time. Start a third wave in or a half away in. Yep, seriously. And Chris: Well yeah. No. yeah. tina: also kid, because kids will that also kind of loses their concentration if you always start at measure one. So make it interesting. Okay, hey, today's Tuesday. We are we're starting in at 17 or wherever it is. Chris: Yes. Yeah. And that should be a process. if I'm going tina: it should be. Chris: if I'm selecting music and I'm starting from day one on on these three pieces of music, for instance, maybe the first day I want to try to read through each piece just to get an idea, tina: Mm-hmm. Right. Chris: But then I'm gonna the next day, all right, on selection one today, we're focusing on measures one through seventeen. Selection two. tina: Right. Yeah. Chris: Same thing, and building it in chunks. But then once I have built it in chunks throughout the the piece, then I come back. Okay, so where what chunks are similar? Let's identify tina: Yes. Chris: that. But then what chunks do we really need to a little bit more emphasis on? and so it's not tina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chris: just starting at the beginning every day because maybe that beginning half of your music is going to sound great at contest, but how much time did you spend on that versus the end of the piece? tina: Right. Chris: so you have to keep those things in mind. tina: Yeah, and I've been asked before, Mini Schrader comes in on Friday. Well, do I change my whole lesson because it's the day I run through music? I said, no, that's teaching continuity. That's teaching teaching transitions. And before you start, you talk about the transitions and playing all the way through and having enough, air to do all of that and enough energy to reach the end. And afterwards you can ask the questions, how are our transitions? and point out different things. things, and have the kids say, hey, that was really good. that was kind of rough. We all weren't exactly together. Well why do you think that? Was it our breathing? No, we didn't breathe together. but that's it's it's still okay if you are doing run throughs because that is Chris: Absolutely. tina: a huge learning thing that you need to be doing. Is yes yes. Chris: And it just depends on how you do them. Like you said, are you asking questions about it? And and Fridays for me, during UIL concert and sight reading season was recording Friday. You know, and so if if you're re if tina: Yes. Mm-hmm. Chris: you're doing run throughs on Friday, hopefully you're recording those. You know, and if you have an tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: administrator come in on Friday and observe you and you're doing run throughs. If there's any question about it, you can say, Well, I'm recording so that this weekend I can sit down and plan next week's lesson plans, you know, and there's nothing they're gonna they're gonna say about that, you know. So all of tina: No exactly. Right. No. Chris: that working together is is very educational. it's tina: And also send those recordings. Send those to to people that they're mentors of yours. And even if it's not great, like, that was kind of rough, whatever. Someone's like, hey, I need to hear that. Let me hear that so I can, help you come up with how we can, get better at it. Chris: Right. And so plan a logical sequence of activities and then leave time for closure. we talked tina: mm. Chris: about at the beginning of the class, what are our goals and making sure our students know what our goals are, for the week, for the day. by the end of the day, we need to be able to do this. We need to be able to measure progress with this, whatever that is for you that day, so that at the end of the of period when you do your closure, you can ask those students, Did we meet our goals for today? Did we increase our tempo from, one twelve to one twenty and still tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: maintain, articulation and style, that type of thing. Yeah, clarity and all the things. tina: Like clarity, yeah. Mm-hmm. Chris: And I think that's very strong thing to do. A lot of times at the end of class we're creatures of teaching from bell to bell. And, we tina: Yes. Chris: just don't leave any time at the end of period to to ask those questions and then say, Well, if we didn't, why didn't we do it? And so tonight I need you to go home and I need you to really focus on these measures of this piece at this tempo. And tomorrow we're going to check it again. give them something to walk out of the class with and not just, hurry up, put up, go to go to next class. then it's like, okay, you know. tina: And I also think that if you have an Apple Watcher or whatever or a timer on your stand, just to have it, like if you let them go two minutes early, have it go off three minutes early. So you have time to close. And because like you say, we are creatures of habit of going from bell to bell and we're just into it and going and whatever, it just will give us that time to be able to go, it just went off. I need to close what I'm saying. Now I need to do a closure for the whole entire class period. Chris: Right, right. Yeah. And just ask yourself tina: And not feel rushed. Chris: this. If someone asked your students what they were supposed to learn today, would they be able to answer it? Cause I've seen tina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chris: administrators do that and I've done that myself when I go into classrooms and I've asked the students, so what are you what are you learning today? And they're like, I don't know. We're just playing through our music, I guess. 'cause tina: Yeah. Chris: it hasn't been stated. They don't know. tina: Right. Chris: so ask yourself that question. tina: Yeah. Chris: the next part of planning is data and assessment. Use playing tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: tests, pass-off, chair tests, video submissions, and informal playing checks. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: Do that regularly. tina: Yes. Chris: gather evidence of individual learning, not just full ensemble performance, because so many things are hiding in that full ensemble performance if you're not checking individuals. And I've worked with some groups and I had one earlier this year that I did a clinic with. It was a marching band clinic, but we're out on the field and I had to go down the row with with a section and 'cause there was wrong notes being played and we needed to figure it out, and we're up in the tina: Mm-hmm. Right. Chris: stands and so I just said, All right, player one, let's go down the row, play this section. And, three out three out of the six trombone players couldn't play the music. They didn't have it memorized, tina: Yeah, I feel like. Chris: And so I asked the director, said, Are you doing pass offs? Well, we really haven't had time for pass offs this year. Wrong. You didn't make time for pass offs this year. you can't let students hide in that and you've got to hold them responsible. But that also guides your planning, you know, if you know. tina: Right. Having video pass-offs even of, marching sets, like standing still doing marching sets and counting out loud, and if the kids really know it, if it's due on Sunday by midnight, it should not take them a long. Don't make the pass off long. You know, Chris: Yeah. tina: just short and sweet. Have it planned on whatever your classroom, if they're using Google Classroom or whatever they're using, that it's on there, that it's planned that that's due by Sunday at that time. You know, and I've Chris: Yeah. tina: had people say, well, they won't do them and I said, and some people will do grades or whatever, but also make it an expectation to be able to go to the game, or something like that. Some kind of expectation. I know some schools that still kind of do the third quarter or they're kind of off, make it where nope, you're sitting in the stands. I've seen that. I've there's all kinds of things that you can do to help encourage them. Hey, turn in that 30 second or a minute or whatever it is pass off that you have to do by Sunday at midnight. Chris: Right. tina: And it just really helps. And and then at the the the middle school level, have posters up with kids' names and make it competitive. I always would have a beginner wall and then a an advanced band wall. And I did it by instrument, the flutes, the then the clarinets, and and putting their pass-off stickers there so it's visual. Also, administrator can come in and see, wow, look at this. I can see it, your data is up here. and you can, if it's eight measures and it needs to be four measures for some it's okay, but did they do Chris: Yeah. tina: the four measures? Is it up there? Are you keeping your data? Because that's a good visual for anyone that walks in the room and say, hey, the fluids are beating everyone. Ooh, look at the tubas, or percussion or whatever. It's great Chris: Right. tina: to have that visual there. Chris: It is. And it also, helps you choose appropriate repertoire to identify skill gaps, So if tina: Yes, it is. Chris: if your tubas are really struggling with low end, range, then maybe we work on some exercises or we work on a specific, you know, piece tina: Yes. Chris: that's gonna help them get better at that, So there's so many things that you have to to use playing tests or pass offs, that type of thing. But I love the video submission thing. and we've talked about it before, with my kids, it was like it was due on Sunday by, ten o'clock or whatever tina: Right. Chris: it was. And they would have to take their horns home over the weekend to do it, and it tina: Yeah. Chris: made them take their horns home, especially with my beginners. take your horns home this 'cause I wouldn't tell until Friday what their pass off line was. You know, tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: all right, this weekend you need to record this line, blah, blah, blah. Submit tina: Right. Chris: it by ten o'clock on Sunday night. And tina: And it is time consuming to listen to those, but don't make the pass off long. Like I said, make it Chris: Yeah, don't make it yeah. tina: short and sweet. You're gonna see and hear everything you need from just something short and sweet. Chris: Yeah, especially if you're assigning them something that tina: Yes. Chris: it is gonna tell you, this these these students are really struggling with dotted eight sixteenth rhythms. I really need tina: Right. Chris: to go back and work on that. so it's it's important to use that and and tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: make time for it. and informal playing checks. You know, when you're in when you're tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: in rehearsal, all right, I need the clarinets, let's play this section. Okay. All right. Well, somebody's playing a wrong note. Let's go down the row. Everybody play this sec, you know, real tina: Mm-hmm. Right. Chris: quickly, just do some of those things. and that is data and assessment. And it's gonna help you plan your next rehearsal or plan your sectional or whatever you need. tina: And yeah. And if right. And if you yeah, and if you do have opportunities to do weekly sectionals, that's also another time that you can go down Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: the row really quickly. And even if you have video pass-offs, another great thing to do during sectionals is, here's your sticker. You don't have to do that video pass-off, you just did it. You know, I mean, Chris: Right. tina: you know, also, also to initial on their page that they Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: did the pass-offs, which is really, really good. Chris: Yeah. And and students need immediate specific feedback that recognizes tina: Yes, the tell you yep. Chris: strengths and identifies the next step for improvement. And so if we're not tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: doing those individual checks on a weekly basis, are our students really growing individually? we're just so focused on what's happening ensemble wise that we're not, getting into the weeds, so to speak, and figuring out what tina: Right. Chris: each individual's happening, And Some people are like, well, I don't want to put anybody on the spot. I don't want to, and I'm like, it's not putting them on the spot. It's holding them accountable. and if you get into the the habit of this is just what we do in band, I mean, never had any problems with that, you have to play for people. You have to play for each other. This is not a private activity, you know. tina: Right. Chris: So it it's a way you approach it. And if you're if you're putting on the spot just to be mean, then that's one thing. But tina: No. Chris: don't do it that way. Yeah. tina: For accountability to do it for accountability. And also, like you're saying, Chris: Yes, for accountability. tina: that the kids need that feedback on how they did. I like that, like if they're passing off and you're having to initial that they did it that if they're almost there but not quite there to put just your first name initial. And so anybody else that looks at that knows that they had feedback and that they have to play it again, and this is gonna be their second attempt. It just really allows. the student to think about it and say, okay, I I did okay, but I need to fix articulation or I need to fix more air through my horn and so they can play it for a second time to be able to pass it off. So it's gets Chris: Right. tina: its full value with two initials. It really helps. Chris: Yeah. Well, and a practical example of this is, instead of repeating measures twenty-five through twenty nine, for example, until you hear some improvement, play measures twenty-five through twenty-nine, then go down the row and identify tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: which students are struggling with rhythm, technique, articulation, or tone and give them something specific. Just one thing, you know, tina: Yes. Chris: use the tip of your tongue for this section as your for articulation. Use the T syllable, whatever you want it to be. But just running it over and over again and hoping that it's gonna get better is not you know. tina: Well, and also with that is if you find someone that's doing it really well, like very high standard, yeah, you identify it. And then Chris: Identify it. Use them as an example, yeah. tina: also have them play it again and say, okay, position with them. And I want you to really listen to their details and go through what details you're talking about and then Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: say, okay, we're all gonna match. We're all gonna match this person. And then have everyone play after they do it. and ask them what what what did you do differently? I tongue's crisper, I use the tip of my tongue more. I use more air. You know, ask the students what did you do to fix that? And they'll tell you, I'm working with a lot of beginners right now in the schools I'm going into where, some of them are not on pitch or they're just it's just not sounding the same as their neighbors. And I go in there and I find the ones that sound really good and have them demonstrate. And then Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: once they're looking at their tuner and they're clipped on, even if just their mouthpiece or whatever it is, their baby instruments, and they look visually to to fix it, and then I have them raise their hand when they fix it. And then what did you do? What was it? make them tell you and also like make everyone else. Who else is that? Who else more air made you in tune? And they'd raise their hand, but it really helps to have that interaction Chris: Yes. tina: in the small groups and in your big your large band groups. Same exact Chris: Yes. tina: concept because it's that feedback of, that's what I did differently to make me sound like so and so, Chris: Right. Well, and the third part of the planning domain is knowledge of students. and so all of this tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: gives you knowledge of your students. And if you're not tina: Right. Chris: doing all these things, then you really don't have knowledge of individual students and the gaps that maybe they have, So connect new concepts to skills students already understand, recognize tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: differences in ability. Experience, motivation, and confidence. That's a big one, because students tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: are are just everybody's different. Use student leaders tina: Right. Chris: and peer mentors to support learning. Use tina: Yeah, like we're saying, yeah. Chris: students who are playing well to be the example tina: Yes. Chris: and have them, position along and and try to play, match what they're doing. Give students opportunities to contribute their strengths to the ensemble, same kind of thing there. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: But that all goes back to, data and assessment. you're gonna learn more about your students and their individual abilities when you're assessing them on a regular tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: basis. And it doesn't have to be every single day, But I always made sure that at least at the beginning of the week and at the end of the week, so that I could measure growth. You tina: Right. Chris: know, that's that's a minimum to me. and then The fourth part of this is intentional rehearsal activities. Plan your warmups. Base your warmups on what they need to be working on, what tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: they need to improve. Don't just go through the same exact warm-up routine every single day. and maybe it doesn't address, and I mean, some groups will play long tones and a B flat scale and then let's go. And I'm like, okay, but they need to work on articulation. What articulation exercises do you have in your warm-ups? tina: Yep. And style with that too. For sure style. You teach that Chris: And style, you know, all of all of tina: early and do that every day. Then you have a communication of, what you need when it comes to a piece of music. What style Chris: Mm-hmm. Yeah. tina: do we do every day? Is that long lifted? are we gonna give staccato which is fifty percent of a note? What are we doing? Smooth and connected, all of that. Yes. Chris: Well, and and there's so much of this that you can, if if you feel like you're in a time crunch or something and you don't want to spend twenty minutes on warm-up and fundamentals, well, okay, so you play the B flat scale every day. Okay, well then today do it in staccato style, you know, or tina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chris: do it staccato going up and slurred coming down. whatever you want to do, you can merge some things together, but plan your warm-ups. Make sure that you are doing what is relevant to what they're gonna be playing. That goes tina: Right. Yes. Chris: along with technique exercises. If they're having to articulate 16th notes in the music they're working on and that's not going well, address it in warm up, you know. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: targeted music rehearsal, like we've already talked about, you know, specific sections of music that you wanna work on that day, and then go to the next piece and do another targeted section. And then lesson closure, talking about what you did that day and did we improve? Do you can we measure our improvement? and you know, all of that helps you to vary your activities to maintain engagement, asking questions. Okay. So integrate listening, demonstrations, technology, and connections to other disciplines. And that's a hard one sometimes to show is connections to other disciplines. young teachers I've I've had, don't really understand what that means. And I'm like, well, if you're working on a piece of music that's based on poetry, talk about the poem tina: Mm. Mm-hmm. Chris: or literature, talk about the literature or a specific time period or event in history, because so much music is based on something. It's not just con or story story, yeah, tina: storytelling. It's telling a story. Yeah. Chris: something, connections to mathematics. we can talk real tina: Right. Chris: briefly about, how music is math and things like that, and what we're maybe we're working on a piece in five eight today, and we can relate that to to some mathematical connections. but there's always something and and again, that's not something you need to do every day, but I think it's important. I always wanted my students to know what the music was about that we were gonna play, just so that they would perform it better. and especially on lyrical pieces. we need the emotion, we need all the things that are going along with this. Well, what is this this piece about? What is it trying to tell? You know, and just read tina: I always like to ask them, I would tell them really what it was, but then I would say, now you make up your own story. tomorrow, come Chris: Yeah. absolutely. tina: into class. Don't make it relevant to anything that it was really written for, but come tell me what is this make you feel? what story Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: could you do? And and it's really funny because you can even start this in six sixth grade, what they'll come in and tell you. And you know you only have a few of them tell you, but it's hilarious sometimes. And Chris: yeah. tina: sometimes it's like sad, but it's but it does. It will share an emotion that they're thinking about. It's just like if you listen to a top 40 song or anything on the radio, what they're saying or doing we find out years later. I know from from me listening when I was in high school and whatever and that song meant something totally different than I thought it did. You know, but it doesn't Chris: Right. tina: matter. It's what I got out of it and what I enjoyed about it. So it does. It Chris: Right. tina: puts a personal aspect to it. Chris: It does. And sometimes, you see those guys that are that talk about the lyrics, and this is what it really sounds like they're saying, but it's not what they're saying at all, you know. tina: Yes. Yes. No, right. No, it's true. Chris: Well, and I always when I would collect music from students after we were finished performing a piece or whatever, and I would always pass out photocopies of the music, but then I would collect it at the end and I would always see especially girls, they would be drawing pictures and stuff around the perimeter of the of the piece, and and I started asking some of them, it's like, so what is this unicorn that you're drawing? Do you just like unicorns? no, this piece makes me think of a unicorn. tell me tina: That's awesome. Mm-hmm. Chris: how, just those kinds of things. So, I think all of that is important. But the key the key takeaway here for the planning section is plan the learning before planning how much music to rehearse. What do you tina: Right. Yeah. Chris: need them to know? What do you need them to get better at today? And then go into your music and figure out where do I need to work on that to improve those areas? and because that's gonna, if you know that they need to work on dotted eight sixteenths or you know that they need to work on a sixteenth note technical run or whatever, Then you're gonna plan that and you're gonna find those sections in your music where that needs to be worked on. And you're gonna plan how you're gonna break that down, so planning is important. I I just feel like there's there's so many of us, and I did this at times too, that just kind of go by the seat of our pants. You know what you did yesterday, and so you're gonna start, and and do the same things today to get better at those sections, but you just don't really have this targeted plan. And I promise you, when I started targeting things and really starting to understand how to plan a rehearsal, everything got better so much quicker. And so that's that's kind tina: So true. Chris: of that's kind of the idea behind the the planning section. Part two is to me, the instruction section is, you know, when I'm working with people, this is the area that I'm really focusing on. because the way you're instructing tina: Yeah. Chris: really affects. Part three, which is the learning environment and the classroom management, and so we're going to talk about from director controlled to student-centered approach in the instruction. And if you're not familiar with the T-Test rubric, if you are in the needs improvement or developing side of the rubric, then that is director controlled. And if you're more towards the distinguished side of the rubric, then that's student-centered. and so how do we become more student centered in the band hall is basically what we're talking about. Okay. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: so achieving expectations, set challenging but attainable goals, continue working until students demonstrate improvement, or adjust instruction when progress stalls. And this is a this is a big thing for me. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: sometimes we will go down the row and we'll ask students to play something and we'll give them a short correction. But then we go on. We don't tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: allow that student to apply that correction. And so are they going to remember that correction the next day or when they get home that night? Probably not. You've got to give them a chance to apply that correction. same thing with the full band. we may stop and say, Okay, well, somebody missed an F sharp in measure three, but let's go on. No, you need to go back and you need to find that and fix that, you know. tina: Find it, yeah. Chris: Yeah, so continue working until students demonstrate improvement or adjust instruction when progress stalls. So if you're working on something and you've worked on it for five minutes with your clarinet section and the rest of the band tina: Yes. Chris: is is sitting there and it's not getting any better, okay, let's go on. I'll come back. We'll come back to this or we'll hit this in sectionals. Let me think how I need to approach this differently, but don't just keep beating at it. Don't get tina: Go on. It's time to go on, yeah. Mm-hmm. Sectionals, yes. Mm-hmm. Don't get stuck. Yeah. Chris: stuck. Yeah, because you're going to lose everybody else in the process. tina: Right. Chris: teach students to evaluate their own performances. And this is important. Okay. and this is where questioning comes in so much. ask them, what did you hear? What was wrong with that articulation? what do you hear balance-wise? Just all these types of questions that and in the packet that the T test pack. packet that I created, I have tons of examples of questions, to ask students after a rep or after a a piece of music has been performed to evaluate are they listening and can they evaluate themselves, and what they need to do. That's such an important part of this process. And then establish individual and ensemble goals that students revisit throughout the year. So discussion question on achieving expectations Do we stop rehearsing when the director is satisfied or when students demonstrate that they understand the concept? tina: Yeah. Yeah, because if Chris: So what do you tina: if it's us, sometimes we may say, maybe I'll come back to that tomorrow, So we're kind of like debating in our our brain about what it is instead of, having the students know for sure and have them be able to say back to you or play back to you exactly what that goal is. Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: I think there's a there's a big difference in that. And sometimes we do just have to just go on because it's not quite there. But has it improved even a little bit? do the students know what we were working on? And do they see a little bit of improvement? Because I've asked, like, did it improve? Yes. Can it still improve? Yes, a bunch. I think that's a good question. You can ask them because they know Chris: yeah. tina: they know it did some, but like you're saying, it's they're not completely there yet. But that's okay. They know that and they know what to go home and work on to get there. Chris: Well, and a lot of times, when we're asking questions, it doesn't even need to be a verbal response. give me a thumbs up if you understand the rhythm in this line. Give me a thumbs down if you don't, you know, and tina: Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. Chris: just get a a a real quick gauge of that so that you can come back. And now you've got some data. Okay, well, three of my kiddos, these three kiddos give me a thumbs down. So I need to target those three kiddos. Not that I'm tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: totally trusting the other ones that give me a thumbs up, you know. tina: Yeah, I know what you mean though. But yeah, but at least you they think they do. Yeah. Yeah. Chris: But but yeah, but at least you got a little bit of information from that. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: content knowledge and expertise demonstrate concepts on your own instrument. And this is something again that I think is tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: is not done. I mean, if you're teaching a beginner class for sure, tina: Yes. Chris: but if you're teaching your ensemble, I don't care what level you're at, have your instrument sitting there next to the podium. Because we all know that there's different learning styles. And you may be tina: Mm. Chris: able to talk and explain to some students and they're gonna get it. some students tina: Right. Chris: need to hear it. And all students, regardless of of age group, need to hear good tone quality and need to hear their director perform on a regular basis, you know. tina: I agree. And also, In a lot of programs up here, we have two directors and one could be Woodwood and one could be brass. I would Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: always have my brass person ready with like a trombone or a trumpet or something if I needed Chris: Yes. tina: them that day. I would say, but we always had our instruments kind of all like organized there to be able to grab each day. And I'd say, Hey so-and-so, hey, will you play that on trumpet? Let's hear what that sounds like. Everyone position, even if you don't have this part, position and listen to how this sounds. And I'd ask them, how does this sound compare to what we're doing right now, and but you're right, they need to hear that. They need to be able to go, I need to be playing fuller or I need to open up more. and I need to make sure I'm sounding rich and full and full of energy towards the end of it. But I totally Chris: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. tina: agree. They need to hear the instruments being played. And also like if you're not as perfect on some and you're the only person, they're hearing it though. They're hearing that it's there and this is what it's supposed to be. Chris: Well, and I tell my student teachers, so maybe you're a a saxophone player and you don't feel comfortable demonstrating anything on brass right now. That's tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: okay. Start learning how to transpose, you know. Play it on saxophone. The point is for them to hear it played correctly, tina: Yeah, play it on saxophone. No, yes. Mm-hmm. I used to do that a lot. Mm-hmm. Chris: good articulation, good style, good tone. You know, tina: Yes. Chris: as a percussionist I had to learn how to play, with good tone on at least one woodwind on at least one brass instrument, But there were times where, I just pulled out a snare drum because we were really having some rhythm problems, and I would just play it on snare drum with them until they, could actually hear the rhythm, Of course, a my a lot of band directors now, band halls have a harmony director, you know, and and tina: Yes. Awesome. Yeah. Chris: and for me, like, especially when I was Teaching my sub non varsity band at the high school level, and I may have a couple of tubas that were, their third band, tuba players. Sometimes they were a kid that I had to move from euphonium to tuba because I didn't have enough tubas tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: in that third band or whatever. I would play their parts on the Harmony Director in their octave, because I could lower that octave, you know. So tina: Right. 'cause you could lower that octave, yes. Mm-hmm. Chris: just giving them that. But concepts on your own instrument demonstrating those is is super important. tina: Yes. And like use in the Harmony Director in Beginners, and you can transpose it to, French horn or whatever key you're in to play. But you can't do that always. It has to be a combination of that and you playing. I do Chris: Yes. tina: know once they're more advanced, I would have like a couple volunteer kiddos be the model. And sometimes I would play on the Harmony Director with them or not, because you do need to kind of speak over it, you know, like Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: to make sure they're breathing when they're supposed to. Cause if you're playing, they should be breathing right before they play right after you to respond. But if you do on the harmony director, you can instruct them, down up, down, getting their feet going, breathe out, breathe in, and you know, whatever it is. but having the students that want to demonstrate and really do have that quality of tone for their age and having them echo that, that's Chris: Yes. tina: a great way to do it too, you know, or having like the Chris: yeah, absolutely. tina: trumpets that sound really good on this style. And the whole band has it, let the trumpets demonstrate it and then the whole band echo it back. find those leaders that can do that if you don't feel comfortable playing that instrument. There are some kids in the band that would love to be that model. Mm-hmm. yeah. Chris: Sure. And you know, when we're teaching jazz band, we want first trumpet to to lead the articulation and the style, And so tina: Yes. Mm-hmm. Chris: we do that a lot. We ask them, okay, well, I need you to listen to the first trumpet. Well, do that in your band as well. You know, have tina: Mm-hmm. Yep. Chris: those volunteers, have those students that can that can demonstrate as well. Yeah. tina: Really do it. Mm-hmm. Chris: understand the fundamentals, the fingerings, tuning tendencies, and technical challenges of the instruments you teach. This is back to content knowledge and expertise. And you're not gonna know all of that coming out of college. I didn't. Most of us do not, But I had my fingering chart right there, you know, tina: Right. yeah. Chris: and I had a a book of tuning tendencies and I knew which notes were were problematic on each instrument. tina: What was that little blue and white book? That stayed on my podium. It had, yep, all the alternate fingerings and the trill Chris: Yeah. Yeah. tina: fingerings, some tuning tendencies. Yes. Chris: Yeah. Yeah. And depending on the, you know, especially like beginners, depending on the beginner method you're using and stuff like that. tina: Yes. Chris: A lot of those publishers now have books for the director that it's just a list of fingering charts and tuning tendencies and this and that, you tina: Yes. Really good tips. Yes. Mm-hmm. Chris: know, that go along with it. So use those resources. anticipate common student misunderstandings. That's something that you need to think about. looking at what you're teaching the next day or this week, what things am I pretty sure my students are gonna struggle with, and have more than one way of approaching that. and then connect musical concepts, like we already talked about, to history, mathematics, literature, and other relevant tina: Right. History. Mm-hmm. Chris: disciplines. Okay. communicating and questioning. And we've talked a lot about this already, but move beyond questions that require only a correct answer. Examples drawn from my T test guide, what do you hear? Who has the melody? What's the problem in this measure? How tina: Mm. Chris: could we make this phrase more musical? why is this passage not balanced correctly? What evidence supports your interpretation? and and something that I like to ask students a lot is after we perform a rep or I may play a recording of what we just played back to them, and then I'll ask a student, all right, what rating would you give that and why? You tina: Mm. Yeah. Chris: know, and just get them thinking in that direction. You know, and we always had a UIL rubric sheet up on the on the on the front of the room. You know, use your tina: Rubric yes. Yeah. Chris: rubric up there when you're listening to this and then be able to answer. tina: They really, yeah, the students need that rubric. They do. I, Chris: Yes. tina: you know, I like having a copy in the binder. I like it on Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: the wall too, like you're saying, because you could, especially if you blew it up and you could like point to it or whatever. Or if it's a slide, you just could push that slide. Let's look at it. Anything. I love that. Chris: Sure, any of that. Yeah, we just made big posters of them. But nowadays, you know, it's so much easier to just put up a slide or or whatever, tina: Yes. Chris: have it in their binder. That's fine too. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: but yeah, I mean, that is super important, and discuss how wait time, student dialogue, and respectful peer feedback can make students active participants in the learning process. questioning is is super important. and it needs to get them to be engaged in the process of listening while they're playing. because when you first start doing this, you'll figure out real quick, students don't have any clue. You know, they're tina: Mm, right. Chris: they're they don't know what to listen to. They're not listening, they're just playing their parts, they're just going through the motions sometimes. And this gets them engaged. And what it also does on the backside of things is it really helps with classroom management. tina: It does. Chris: and especially when you approach it from a random aspect, not just asking the whole class, what do you hear, class? and you have thirty hands or tina: They say, can you hear yeah, can you hear the tubas? You know, I'd go walk back to the tubas and say, Man, tubas, y'all are doing a great job. Hey, can you hear the tubas? Because let's do that part again. I want you to play your part and really listen for the tubas. And it just changes their whole perspective of what they're playing Chris: Yeah. It does. tina: and what they're doing. Chris: But then also asking, the random student. And you can have a randomizer app on your iPad or your phone or you can just have, yeah. And I've got a well, that's what I I still tell kids I was like, it's real easy tina: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I now. I I used to do the popsicks popsicle sticks. I know. Chris: just to make a a jar of popsicle sticks for each class and then just draw a kid's name, you know. Yeah. tina: Mm-hmm. Yep, and put it in the other drawer jar, pardon me, whenever their name was called. I mean that's just as fun. But I mean the randomizers is great too. I almost think it's quicker with the popsicle sticks. I really do 'cause it is. 'Cause you just boom, go, boom, go, but Chris: Or when they yeah. It is. It is too. I mean how Well, it is. It does. Yeah. Yeah. tina: still. Chris: Well, and it's easy too, like I would do it. And if they answer the question, then it goes in the jar that's discarded. I'm not gonna call on you again today. But if they couldn't answer the question, I'm putting it back in that jar because I need you to learn to pay attention, you know? tina: Ooh. Ooh. I like that. I do, because I always like if they tried at least. But yeah, you're right. Chris: No, but kids will g learn real quickly, that I better be paying attention. Yeah. tina: I better be paying attention. For one. Yeah. Chris: Or or if you just discard it after you call them just because maybe they they gave you a an answer just to fill in the blank, but they weren't really yeah, that that's all they gotta do. tina: Just to give it yeah. Yeah. They weren't engaged. Chris: They're not engaged. So that makes a big difference and it really helps with classroom management. when they learn that you're just gonna be calling on random people throughout class to ask a question and tina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chris: they better figure it out, you know. tina: Or to play scales. That was that's always fun too. Or a part in the music. Yeah. Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Diffentiation. that's the fourth part of the instructional domain. And use multiple methods to explain the same concept. And we've talked about some of this modeling, counting out loud, singing, clapping, fingering, listening, tina: Mm-hmm, yes. Chris: and visual examples. just figure out, use more than one method. And I I, you know, use counting as an example. Counting is definitely something we need to be doing, every day with our younger students and our beginners for sure. but not just counting, clapping it, or to tina: Right. Chris: use the two finger clap, however you want to do that, but making sure, yeah, touching the page. tina: Right. Or touching the page. I like touching the page to some especially when rhythms get, more intricate and everything, 'cause they can sit there and and also you can walk Chris: Well, and I think that's tina: behind them and see. Chris: yeah, I think that's the first part of it, is I always do touch and say with my beginners, and we'll go through tina: Mm-hmm. Yes, Chris: and we'll say the notes, note names, but in rhythm and they have to touch them. tina: Yes, and touch them. Yes. Mm-hmm. Chris: and I'm standing behind them when they do that to see, you know. tina: Yes. Chris: But then I am a big proponent on making sure that when we count a rhythm that we're clapping it and tapping our foot. And some people are like, Well. tina: Mm. Chris: If they can count it, they can play it. Mmm. tina: Mm-mm. Chris: But do you know that they can all count it? Because when you're just counting as a class, you can hide. But when you're actually physically having to clap it, you can see if they know it or not. You know? tina: Also making sure that every kit is doing it the same way. Figure out which way Chris: Yes. tina: you're gonna do, what you're gonna do, make it consistent from every band, all of that. And and you're right, the foot tap has to be a part of it. Doesn't Chris: Yes. tina: matter how old the kiddo is when you're counting through, the foot tap needs to be a part it. Chris: Right. and that's just part of it, but differentiation tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: because kids learn in different ways. Provide targeted tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: support for individuals and sections. move around the rehearsal room to monitor posture, hand position, engagement, and understanding. And that's another thing that I think is is super important. Don't just be on the podium, you know. I tina: Right. Chris: mean move around the room and hear the band from different perspectives, walk behind and see what they're doing. it's as simple as sometimes in when I'm in a clinic and I'm walking around, there's kids that just don't have music out, tina: Right. Chris: you know, different things. And and I'm like talking to the director afterwards, did you know that there's like five or six kids in here that don't even have their music on their stand? no, I didn't know that. Yeah, get off the podium, be more engaged. It makes them accountable. tina: It just makes them accountable. It makes every individual accountable for how their stand is set up, what they have out. Like even the other thing is like if you're using tuners, that the tuner's even on. You know, I've walked behind and I'm turning tuners on. You know, Chris: Right. Mm-hmm. Yes. tina: and I tell the director, look, half the band didn't even have tuners on. just to be aware of that. Same concept. Or a pencil on the stand or whatever your procedure is. Yeah, same thing. Chris: Pencil on the stand. Or the stand is not even where it needs to be heightwise. Because that tina: Ro cur Yes, exactly. Chris: goes back to again to communication and it goes back to classroom management and all that stuff. Because if I can't see your eyes and you can't see my eyes, there's a lot of things I can do just by looking at you, you know. tina: And you know, when administrators come in, they're walking around in the back. They see all that too. Even if they Chris: Yeah. Yes they do. tina: know nothing about what we're doing, that they can see that somebody doesn't have the music up, someone doesn't have Chris: Right. tina: the stand up high enough and looks different on how, they're sitting or whatever. So yeah, just walk around, monitor. You can have the metronome Chris: Yeah. Yep. Walk around. tina: going on during warm-up to make sure everything's situated without saying a word. And you could even whisper to the kiddo, hey, raise your stand up or whatever. You know, so that way Chris: Right. tina: the kids do things sometimes and you don't want to embarrass them, but you just go walking around just using, some nonverbal cues and maybe like I said, going up to them and quietly saying, hey, raise your stand Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: some more. Hey, can you get your pencil out? You forgot it, or hey, turn on your tuner or clip your tuner on. You can do a lot of that with no one even knowing except for the kiddo you're with. Chris: Well, and that's the great thing about it, is addressing confusion or issues without embarrassing students. And a lot of times tina: Yes. Chris: when we are on the podium and we're addressing an individual student, it's like we're calling them out. But if you're walking around and you're you're noticing some of those things, especially, tina: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Chris: you're running something with a metronome, you don't need to be up there waving your hands, the metronome's going, you there's other things you can do. And then you can tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: address those issues without embarrassing students by just being right beside them. And the other thing about it too is proximity. if you've got students that are, not focused that day, or you've got an individual or two who are goofing off or talking when they shouldn't be, you know, just walking back there and standing beside them will fix the problem a lot of times. and then the final part of this is monitor and adjust. And we've talked a little bit about this, but recognize facial expressions, body language, disengagement, and performance errors as useful information. sometimes when you spend way too much time doing one thing in rehearsal, you'll see students, you know, body language, facial expressions, they're disengaged. you need to recognize that, you know. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: adjust pacing and warm ups, rehearsal strategies tina: Right. Chris: and repertoire when necessary. Avoid talking too much. That's the you know, that that's tina: Right. Yeah, that that's a big one. Chris: that's a big one, to avoid talking too much when students need time to play and practice. tina: Mm. Yeah. well, I was gonna say also it's like you know, in certain schools like they may have where it's block days two days a week or whatever, and there's a class of 90 minutes and it's a middle school, in the middle of it, especially depends on which band you're talking about, if it's the third band or the first band or beginners, but in the middle of class, have it worked in there. Like you're saying, okay, y'all have three minutes practice, they all read your music or three minutes practice line so it's so in your book. And walk around and monitor, but give Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: them that time to play and practice on their own. And then come back to it. I just got to refoc Chris: Yeah. Well in that tina: refocus is kind of what I'm saying, back into what the plan is. Chris: Well, and when you do it that way, that also there's a there's a thing in the T test rubric where it's giving opportunity for students to take initiative for their own learning. and so tina: you're right, yeah. Chris: I would do that a lot where, all right, we're having problems on this this little technical passage. Spend one minute on your own practicing at whatever tina: Mm. Chris: speed you need to, and then we're gonna start slower when we come back in. and give them that opportunity tina: Yeah, that's great. And you can walk around and you can listen to them. Hey, Chris: right. tina: play that for me, because the whole room's loud, you know, and you're Chris: Yes. tina: like, that's it. That's exactly it. Or hey, you need to draw in your articulation or mark that flat or sharp that you're missing or whatever it is. It does, it allows you to teach individually in the room with all that's going Chris: Yes. And it tina: and then bringing the whole team back together when it's time. Chris: And my students knew that during that time, that if they needed an individual question answered or if individual helped, then they just had to raise their hand. And when I'm walking around, I come to them first, answer tina: Mm-hmm. Yes. Chris: their question, that type of thing. but you know, especially in those longer classes, if you got kids for ninety minutes at the middle school, you tina: Mm-hmm. Yes. Chris: know, even giving them a five minute time during the middle to just kind of do their own thing for a second, you know. tina: Yeah. Yeah. And you can do pass offs then too. Because you can listen to a kid pass off something, Chris: Yes. Mm-hmm. tina: you know, when everybody else is playing. I would even put the metronome on like a certain tempo, as they were doing this and walk around and it was really helpful to redirect Chris: Yeah. tina: the class. Yeah. Chris: Yeah. So avoid talking too much. and when you need to cut them off and address them, a lot of times I would ask them, Why do you think I stopped? tina: Mm-hmm. Chris: and let them have the opportunity to tell me. And if they didn't say the right thing, then I would tell them briefly why we stopped, what we need to fix and get right back into it. And that whole process took fifteen seconds. I mean It's gotta be quick and it's gotta go on. if you really struggle with classroom management, don't let them put their horns down. if you've got something short that you need to address, keep the horns to their face, cut them off, keep your hands up, keep their horns to their face, say what you need to say, count them right back in. once those students put their horn down, and if you don't have that process worked out, because I see that a lot too, where as soon as you cut off their horns come down and they start talking. Well, it's because if you're cutting them off and you're immediately starting to talk and you're not actually forcing them to go through a process, they disengage, you know. tina: They disengage, yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chris: So the key takeaway with with part two here, which is again instructional domain, the key takeaway is distinguished directors do not simply deliver instruction. They continuously respond to evidence of student learning. they're asking questions and they're and the students are engaged in the learning process. The students know what the the goals are and they can tell you what the outcome of the class was if we met those goals or we didn't meet those goals. When you can get to that level of teaching, you'll be amazed at how much more efficient your rehearsals are, how much quicker the students are learning the information because they're actually engaged. So that's tina: Well, you're developing an independent learner Chris: Mm-hmm. tina: being a part of a team Chris: Right. tina: and how all of that goes together without you saying a word because you're training them to do all the things that you're saying. Chris: Exactly. Exactly.