Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Matt Trewhella: Resisting Tyranny, The Doctrine Of The Lesser Magistrates

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Matt Trewhella: Resisting Tyranny, The Doctrine Of The Lesser Magistrates · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Fiorazo.
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  Hello, friends.
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  Thank you so much for tuning in.
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  I have another exciting guest to talk to today, Pastor Matt Trewell.
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  I want to bring him in.
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  He's the pastor of Mercy Seat Christian Church in Milwaukee, area of Wisconsin, founder
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  also of missionaries to the pre-born.
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  Through his research and teaching on the biblical duties of the lower magistrate, Pastor Matt Trewell
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  came across the Madgeburg Confession.
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  And it's an important historical work that became the first in the history of mankind to
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  just set forth in a doctrinal format.
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  What only later came to be known as the lesser magistrate doctrine.
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  And we've got a book on that that Pastor Matt wrote.
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  He and his wife, Clara, live in the Milwaukee, Wisconsin, area, and they have 11 children,
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  so they're doing their part.
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  So God bless you, Pastor Matt, welcome to World View Matters.
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  Hey, good to be here with you, David.
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  And we're up to 35 grandchildren now, so the Lord has greatly blessed us.
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  Holy five grandchildren, wow, you're leaving a legacy.
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  Well, I want to start off by saying, which I shared with you, I quoted you in my recent
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  book, Assault on the Image of God.
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  I quoted you in a chapter.
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  I believe it was on the Assault on the pro-life community or assault on free speech.
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  One of those two chapters, I quoted you, your response to Michael Schrader, who was
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  arrested along with three other people.
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  I believe four were arrested at a Pride in the Park event.
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  We don't need to get into the whole thing, so I want to direct people to my book because
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  I detail it in that chapter, there's several pages, and then your whole response to that.
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  I want to thank you now that I've got you here on the program for really just sharing
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  the truth and using that as a teaching opportunity to talk to those police officers who arrested
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  the Christians and while they were sexualizing young children in the park, the public park
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  on the drag show, and you talked to them afterwards, it was one of the most, that's why I put
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  it in the book.
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  I quoted your whole transcript because it was one of the most effective, I believe,
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  and respectful, but it was almost a rebuke, and I thought that the balance you used in
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  that, and it's available at defytyrance.com, friends, I thought it was just wonderfully
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  done, so kudos to you.
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  I would just love for you to share your quick thoughts on that whole experience.
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  Yeah, no, thank you very much for doing that, David.
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  Yeah, they were arresting young people from our church and they arrested my 16-year-old
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  daughter even there, and they had them inside the building across from where, you know,
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  the homosexuals and drag queens were all doing their thing in the park with all those
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  children there, and so it was just an off the cuff, there's, I had like 12 officers standing
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  there, and I thought they need to understand their duty in the sight of God, that they're
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  not just robots for the state, that they will give an account to him, and that when the
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  superior authorities do wrong, their duty is to do right, their duty is to interpose
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  and not obey the evil that their superior authorities aren't involved in, and that is
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  the doctrine of the lesser magistrate, and I did write a book on it called the doctrine
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  of the lesser magistrate.
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  It's sold about 140,000 copies now, and I've been, yeah, and I've been traveling all over
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  the country for nine years as of this month, nonstop teaching this doctrine everywhere
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  I go, and God has really used it for good, and I can't thank him enough for it, so that's
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  what took place there, and I think it did impact the officers there on Watertown that day,
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  some of them at least.
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  Well, there were six or seven of them in the video that I saw, and they had sunglasses
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  on, but they didn't interrupt you, they weren't distracted, that you were just looking
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  right at them, and just sharing your heart on this important matter, where's the best
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  place to get that, Matt, is it defytyrants.com, or is it on Amazon?
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  You can get it on Amazon, on the best place, I think, is to get it at defytyrants.com,
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  because when you order it through there, we add a few extra free items with the book
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  itself.
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  Good, good, so you can get that, the doctrine of the lesser magistrates at defytyrants.com,
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  so what would be a practical example of that, Matt, this is the first time we're having
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  you on this program, a lot of people are going, okay, the doctrine of the lesser magistrates,
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  so they're trying to go understand who the greater magistrates are, and what would be
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  the responsibility there as far as accountability, can you put that into bullet points, I know
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  you wrote the book on it, but if you can just sum that up for those who aren't familiar
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  with it, please.
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  Well, we call it a doctrine, because it is a Christian doctrine, first formalized, as
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  you mentioned, in 1550, by the ministers of Magdeburg, Germany, the term magistrate is an
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  old English term, meaning anyone who possesses lawful public authority, whether by appointment
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  or election, and so when you have a superior magistrate who does wrong, the duty of the
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  lesser magistrate is interposition, to not obey, and if necessary to actively resist the
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  superior authority in their lawlessness.
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  So there was a quote by Emperor Trajan, he was giving a sword to one of his subordinates,
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  he said, use this sword against my enemies if I give righteous commands, but if I give
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  unrighteous commands, use it against me, and that's the doubt in a nutshell, the duty
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  of the lesser authorities in the face of evil or lawlessness by the superior authorities
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  is not blive compliance, rather it's what we call interposition.
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  John Knox wrote the foremost treatise on the doctrine in his 1558 appellation to the
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  Nobles of Scotland, where any cited over 70 passages of scripture to show that the doctrine
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  is sound in the word of God.
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  Wow, so let's go back to just BC before COVID in around 2019, 2020 was the year that the
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  Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation driven by Marxists and godless, demonically
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  driven individuals were wreaking havoc on our nation, billions of dollars in damage,
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  there were governors and mayors that were telling the police officers to stand down and
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  allow lawlessness, and that was off the charts, Matt, we haven't seen anything like that
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  in our lifetime, on our streets, businesses were burned, police cars were blown up, your
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  thoughts on that being an example of how they should have spoken up or they should have
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  at least not obeyed their superiors saying don't enforce the law, your thoughts on that?
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  Yeah, the police should have protected the citizens and done their duty regardless of what
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  their superiors had said, and of course that seems to have all been coming down all the way
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  from the governor's office and unfortunately each lower magistrate blively complied.
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  To the point where after three nights of mayhem, bloodshed and destruction in Kenosha,
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  citizens actually came out with their own weapons, you have to be hast of businesses,
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  most people know about Kyle Rittenhouse, but they have to understand Kyle wasn't out there by
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  himself that night, there were about 200 men armed that night, and how did the police, the rank
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  and file police respond to those men being out there, they actually came up and thanked them
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  for being there and shook their hands and told them how disgusting they found it, that they
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  were being ordered to stand down and allow all this destruction and bloodshed to go on in the city.
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  So they knew in their heart they should have done right, but they didn't do right,
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  but I could share a great story with you regarding COVID, because you're in mention that,
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  where the document is applied, and we actually documented over 500 cases of inner position
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  by lesser authorities, most county officials, sheriffs or county boards, or municipal officials,
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  mayors or city councils that acted in inner position against governors and against the state,
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  or against the federal government itself. One story I like to use, because it just sums it up,
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  and it'll make a doctrine so clear to all your people, David, is they may recall back in May of 2020,
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  how these sheriffs pardon me, how these governors were making decrees like every week about COVID,
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  acting like little emperors, like the constitution doesn't exist. And Governor Pritzker,
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  just south of us here in Illinois, he was playing the tyrant, he's still playing the tyrant,
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  but in May of 2020 he came out with his latest draconian decree, and it stated,
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  now no businessman anywhere in the state can open their business till I say you can open your
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  business. And if you open your business before I say you can, now you're going to be arrested and
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  charged with a crime. Well, the next day in a state with 102 counties, only one county put out
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  their own decree, they gathered their men together, it was Madison County, which sits right on the
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  Mississippi River directly across from St. Louis, and their decree stated, our business men are
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  free to reopen now, and we'll do everything within our authority and power to protect our business
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  men. And then they learned the governor in the state not to interfere with their business men.
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  Well, Governor Pritzker responded in good, fero-like fashion type of bad. And he held a press conference
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  in Threaten Madison County with their federal money, their state money, had a whole list of bad
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  things. He was going to do them. They didn't go along with the program. Well, they stood resolute,
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  they did not flinch. In fact, Pritzker held this press conference three days in a row threatening them,
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  but these men did not flinch. And finally, seven days after he had made his initial decree,
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  the Illinois state police declared in a press release they sent out, we will not arrest any
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  business man anywhere in the state who opens their business before Governor Pritzker says they can.
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  They had decided to stand with the men at Madison County. And understand, if it had not been for
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  the inner position of that one county, the entire state would have remained under that draconian
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  decree. And understand also, the man who heads up that county's a Christian brother had read my
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  book on the doctrine two years earlier had taught it to the county board. And they were exactly what
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  they're doing. And they've been a burn the saddle for Pritzker again and again in the doctrine
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  because of their actions has grown massively in Illinois so much so that a year last year,
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  when the assault weapons ban was passed by the legislature and signed by Governor Pritzker,
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  which is an attack upon the Second Amendment rights of citizens in Illinois. 90 county sheriffs
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  put out decrees saying we will not go along with this. 90 of them. Now it's still be worked out
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  in the courts and we'll see how they stand after the courts rule. If the courts rule against them,
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  will they stand? We're praying so. But you see how the doctrine is growing David
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  around our nation. Praise be to God. Yes. And we need it to grow for such a time as this because we've
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  seen the strong arm of government and tyranny like we've never seen before, particularly in the
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  last three years. We've got to take a really quick break and thank our friends at Harbinger's Daily.
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  We'll be right back with Pastor Matt Trewella defy tyrants.com.
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  Pastor Matt Trewella of Mercy Seat Christian Church in southern Wisconsin is our guest today
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  and again the doctrine of the lesser magistrate get the book. If you haven't yet, we highly recommend it.
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  I want to bring up an article from Ohio that just came out and this is an example of the House
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  of Representative over overriding Governor Dewins or DeWines veto of the Safe Act. So what happened was
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  the state of Ohio took the first step to overturn the governor's veto of a bill that protects
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  children from permanently harmful transgender procedures and assures the privacy and fairness
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  for female athletes. That's what the Republicans in the state pushed. They got it through but the
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  governor vetoed it and now the House said no wait a minute that's not right so they stood up to him
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  and Pastor Matt is is that a good example of people saying no we're we're going to hold you
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  accountable for this we're going to override you because that is unlawful what you're doing your
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  thoughts on that. Yeah well it's important to understand the founders of our nation understood the
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  doctrine of the lesser magistrate and they really pillard the thinking behind it into the government
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  that was established here in America where you have it's a true federalism and a true
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  federalism all four of the great governments matter you know family government church government
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  civil government all meant to produce the fourth great government in the individual namely self
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  government and within a federalism when it comes to civil government you have multiple levels of
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  government multiple branches at each level our founders wanted it that way because they had a
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  biblical view of the nature of man that he's wicked and in need of a savior so they don't want
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  power to reside in one man they were throwing off a monarchy nor in a small group of men like
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  scotis has become an our nation an oligarchy they wanted these checks and balances so that if one
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  branch began to pay play the tyrant or branches began to play the tyrant another branch or branches
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  would check them stand in inner position against the evil and that's what the legislature has done
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  here it's the legislative branch checking the executive branch in the evil that he wanted to keep
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  fomenting across the state and they rightly so wanted to reign in that evil and criminalize it
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  as it should be so yeah it was this thinking behind the doctrinal lesser magistrate was pillard
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  by our founders themselves so let's talk now since we don't have a lot of time about January 6th
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  the quote insurrection narrative that the media has been putting out there and they're
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  totally behind it and there there's been so much injustice that we've seen there are people that
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  are still in jail and there are people that were arrested for just showing up and you know
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  free speech you know and here we've got the the government coming against citizens and
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  it's it's been really disturbing pastor Matt Trewella because we we have the government against
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  we the people I should say half the country if you're conservative Christian Republican
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  independent they are against you and pro life and so we we had a massive protest peaceful protest
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  at for the most part at the the nation's capital and there was a lot that was done to to draw
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  people in there there were just so many problems with what happened by just want to get your thoughts
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  because there's people that shouldn't be in prison that aren't prison and there are people that
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  actually aided and abetted the the some of the unlawful acts and there's no accountability there
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  so just your thoughts on what the media and what the left is putting out they're framing
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  quote Christian nationalists and domestic terrorists and mega Americans and any trump
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  supporters so go ahead your thoughts Matt yes and unfortunately much of the conservative media
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  in this country totally abandoned these people and threw them under the bus early on and continue
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  to do so there are two good documentaries out there one is j6 truth dot org I encourage everyone
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  to go to j6 truth dot org and watch that and then the epic times epoch epic times just came out
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  with a documentary also and it is fantastic and you just go to that website and right now they're
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  showing it you can see it for free excellent so I encourage you people to go there to learn what
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  really went on that they've never heard from the normal media quote unquote normal media in the
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  country and filled with so much information that will really make your blood boil and understand
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  it's not just the j6 people that are being mistreated and you know I have a friend he has wife
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  four small kids he just went in in October never did anything except walk in was there 20 minutes
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  didn't damage anything didn't do anything walked out he's a year in federal prison a guy of two
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  miles from where I live was just arrested two months ago two and a half plus years later they're
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  still hunting these people down he's facing 14 years in federal prison now but they're also going
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  after those who protect the pre-born and right now there's 23 people most of them Christians
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  who interpost prayerfully peacefully at the death of the at the doors of the death camps the
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  abort worries and they've been charged by our federal government by the DOJ and they are looking
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  at each up to 32 years in federal prison David for their act of interposition you look at how the
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  feds have responded to them versus what went on with all the rioting you were mentioning
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  with black eyes matter and on down the line all the leftists wow what a disparity and so there's
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  actually the trial for eight of them already took place out in Washington DC they've been held
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  since September they won't even get their sentence until this may and those people are all looking at
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  anywhere from 20 years up to 20 years in federal prison for for their actions Nashville
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  Tennessee there's going to be a trial next week starting on January 16th for eight of the
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  individuals down there seven of the individuals down there and then in April there's going to be
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  more of them tried to emish again oh it is wicked what our federal government is doing
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  yes and this isn't where the doctrinal estuary comes in again they're we're reaching a point
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  with the federal beast where the state officials may have to protect distinct individuals
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  where sheriffs and counties may have to protect distinct individuals from the federal government
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  and that isn't without understanding that's happened before when slavery was in this country
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  here in Wisconsin our state officials and county officials protected Sherman Booth who the feds
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  want to do arrest protected him time and time again standing against the federal fugitive slave
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  act so we could be seeing the same thing unfolding here as the lawlessness and immorality continues
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  to deepen in our nation what's astounding here Matt and I guess it shouldn't be because we know
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  abortion is a sacrament to the left and they want to protect the murder of the preborn at any cost
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  and it's a deluge it is demonic what they're doing what's driving this it is demonic it's not
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  there's nothing new under the sun they did it in the Old Testament sacrificing babies on the altar
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  of moleck to their gods there's so there's nothing new but to to let it happen to the extent that it
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  has an America to the point of a whole political party it stands on this abortion platform and punishes
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  those who peacefully just want to go and pray for the unborn or pray for the mothers pregnant women
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  that are going into these death camps these clinics and it isn't one of the women something like
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  70 years old one of the women that was arrested she's actually 88 years old and when she was a
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  child near the end of World War II she was actually in a death camp over in Europe and this is how
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  our government treats her 88 years old she's one of the people looking at up to 32 years in
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  federal prison for praying for just being on a public sidewalk just wanting to protect
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  life human life and mother's womb this is it is demonetized no other explanation as a pastor
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  how do you encourage your people to raise awareness about what's happening or speak for those who
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  don't have a voice yeah well of course I speak from the pulpit Christ has given me and I encourage
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  them that action matters and it has to be on two levels you have to go to the people we have to
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  be fishermen men and we have to declare truth to men and we also need to go to the magistrates
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  it's not an either or it's a both hand if you wanted the exclusion of the other you're not doing
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  what's properly needed to be done God's word speaks to every area of life including the area
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  of civil government we have a duty to bring to the magistrates what their duty is in the sight of
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  Christ so you have to be involved in the civil government matters and at the same time you have
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  to be out on the streets reaching the people and fishing for men massively important to do
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  so we are thankful for men of God like yourself there are some voices in probably every state in
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  the country but unfortunately it is a remnant it's a small number of men of God true men of God
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  that are preaching the whole council of God trying to confront evil and against the deeds of
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  darkness you know we're calling it out as Ephesians 5 11 it talks about another places in the word of
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  God I want to mention those sites one more time Matt before we move on January 6th you documentaries
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  at the epic times and also j6truth.org and Jeff if you would bring up the book cover for the
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  doctrine of the lesser magistrates one more time I want to send people to defy tyrants.com and
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  we're just you're just thankful for this and thankful that it's spreading and I'm just praise God
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  for just getting your book out there Matt and when did you write that isn't it is it been about
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  five years or no actually it was published in 2013 so it's been over 10 years now well and
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  yeah by the way it's spreading around the world too I gave the rights over to a Christian
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  over in on the African continent and literally thousands more that is encountering all the
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  140,000 here thousands upon thousands more they can print the book for 59 cents a piece
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  also I was in northern Ireland a couple months ago they had me there for two weeks
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  teaching the doctrine all over northern Ireland so the doctrine is spreading to other places in
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  the world too praise be to God amen brother praise God in Africa that's a good to hear because
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  talk about the slaughter of Christians there and wicked governments so yeah we're thankful that
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  this is getting out there that's what one of the big reasons I wanted to have you on and we'll do
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  this again Lord willing but I'm just encouraged when I see people from your church out there on
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  the sidewalks preaching holding up the signs I'll never forget my very first book I quoted a
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  Catholic priest what was it father Frank Pavone who said America will not resist abortion until
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  America sees abortion and what he meant by that is the signs the graphic images that you know you're
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  people show and some people that protest on in front of a plan parenthood people don't like to see
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  them because they want to ignore that it's happening they'd rather turn the other way but America
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  will not resist it until they see that this is going on and they can be convicted your final thoughts
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  Matt yeah I know I agree fully and I we always say that if the murder of these preborn children
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  is going to be public policy and it is yes then their suffering should be publicly displayed
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  yeah we're gonna tolerate their bloodshed we should be willing to look at the bloodshed that's
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  taking place I love that perspective because it is public policy it is I mean the federal government
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  we are our tax dollars are helping plan parenthood Biden administration gave them a raise since
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  the Dobbs decision and Roe v Wade being overturned plan parenthood is now getting more money
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  over 600 million believe in our taxpayer dollars and their revenue is over a billion dollars
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  and that's very public because it's taken money from the taxpayers I'm preaching to the choir here
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  Matt but thank you for your time defy tyrants dot com and your other website is mercy seat dot net
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  Lord willing we will do this again we'll we'll stay in touch okay thank you brother thank you
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  god bless you so friends make sure we can spread this this the information about this book around
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  because it's such an important doctrine and I'm so glad that more pastors are starting to
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  take note and and speak up because pastors of all people the pulp it must not be silent and as
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  Dietrich Bonhoff her famously said silence in the face of evil is itself evil so god bless you
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  thanks again for watching for sharing the podcast and keep speaking the truth about things that