Latest / LOYAL TO THE CRAFT / Ryan Oakes on Patience, Panic Attacks, and Building a Music Career

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Ryan Oakes on Patience, Panic Attacks, and Building a Music Career · LOYAL TO THE CRAFT

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Super excited to have Ryan Oaks on the show today, talking about his brand new record, hitting the road, and just all things being a creative.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Ryan, stoked to have you on the show, man.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to be here.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome, man.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: So talk to me, man.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: You got a new record, Scary Stories After Dark.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Seems there's a lot of themes around horror, childhood trauma, things like that, all relatable things for teenagers, especially aspiring musicians.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Stoked to dive in.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: What was some of the things underlying when you were writing this record that made you pull from such dark places, such as childhood trauma?
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was interesting.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: The way we approach this album was a lot different than uh the previous ones.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I actually had the name before we had a single song, which was really funny.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've always had interest in like thrillers, horror.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Before I did music, I wanted to do cinematography and make like movies and stuff.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's always kind of been like in the back of my head where I've had this passion for like creating these spooky worlds and making music.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, the idea of the album came to me, and I was like, why haven't we ever just tried to combine both of them?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's such an easy way to do it.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like you're saying, as a musician, childhood, all that stuff, I went through some crazy things that I feel like a lot of people could relate to.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And what's a better way to deliver that than in like a scary story?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: So they kind of just hand in hand came together.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was the most fun I've ever had making an album.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was the most, I guess, seamlessly flowing.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like it didn't really feel like there were any roadblocks because it was just like flow state the whole time because we understood exactly what we wanted to do from the start, which was also a first.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was just such an easy process, and all the songs came together so well uh that I think it kind of just wrote itself once we had the ideas and stuff in mind, if that makes sense.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: What can you talk about from some of that childhood trauma that could be relatable for kids listening, these aspiring musicians that want to write and record and enter that flow state, get some co-writers like you've, you know, uh collaborated with.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: What's some of that childhood trauma that you pulled from that actually happened to you that you're you're comfortable talking about?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, from 13 years old, I'll tell like a quick short story to kind of like pull it all together in the end.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: But when I was 13, I used to like wake up in the middle of the night and I kept telling my mom that like it felt like my heart was stopping, and my parents were doing their best to figure out what was wrong or whatever.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And they were like, maybe you're dehydrated.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we're they're trying to figure it out and work through it with me, but I was having panic attacks and I didn't know what they were at the time because I was 13 and I was like, I just had super bad anxiety.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was just always kind of a kid who like I had a bunch of friends, but I didn't really fit in anywhere.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like the music industry to be honest, because I do all these hybrid things and it's kind of hard to put me in a certain box.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: But so I used to just have super bad anxiety.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: I had super bad depression at points.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in college, I used to like walk out of class basically because I didn't want to be there and I'd be having panic attacks in the middle of class because all I wanted to be doing was sitting in my room and making music and stuff.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I just kind of my body was literally just putting me in fight or flight whenever I was just not doing anything music related, basically, uh, my childhood.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: So once I first started to make songs my senior year of high school, I actually quit sports teams where I had scholarships, not lined up, but they were coming my senior year.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was like the big senior year I was gonna have, uh, where I would get all the scholarships I wanted and then go play lacrosse in college, not D1.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't that sick, but I would have had school for free.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I quit right away because as soon as I made the first song, it was so therapeutic.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was just like, I'm gonna do this for the rest of my life and no one's gonna stop me, basically.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that was 14 good old years ago.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're an artist, uh, definitely gonna take longer than you think, I can tell you that.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Unless you're an overnight success, which is, you know, hitting lightning in a bottle, but that's not gonna be the story for most people.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and to that point, man, and I've seen it unfortunately a lot of times, more often than not, that that overnight success, you don't really have you definitely don't have those years and decades of experience and knowledge to pull from.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that when something like a roadblock that's inevitable in life is gonna come your way, you don't really have much to pull on.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: You have the experience in the years of overcoming that anxiety or as best as you can, and using that anxiety in a creative outlet, which I think is incredible.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And more parents and more teachers and more young, aspiring musicians need to understand that there's a way to bottle that anxiety and turn it into creative, you know, juice essentially.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it does take a long time.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm literally talking to a kid that I've known since he was about 12 years old that is going to college for lacrosse, but also wants to be in a band and do the whole thing.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: And those decisions as a teenager are difficult to make.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about your upbringing.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: How were your parents and what who did you have around you as a support system to talk about these things to ultimately make that decision of just doing music 100%?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Just myself on the music end, and that's not a dig at my parents or whatever.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: But when you tell your parents you want to be a rapper when you're 16, the reaction is not gonna be great.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, don't blame them for that.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I mean, you just if you're gonna make it, you're gonna have this thing that's already in your head where it's like no one's gonna stop me no matter what, anyway, and you're just gonna keep going.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think like I sit down and talk to musicians about it all the time where we're like, technically, if you ask me now, I've accomplished everything I've ever wanted in the music industry, and the rest is just a bonus.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and we're like, why did out of everyone, why is it that we ended up this way?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, oh, because we all are just crazy, basically, and we are being willing to be told no a thousand times because we're gonna get that one yes that opens the door, and then you move on to the next one where you're told no a thousand times, and you just keep repeating that process and you end up where you want to be.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I mean, it's tough for anyone starting out because realistically, your friends aren't gonna support you unless you got really good friends.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have best friends that I talk to still from high school.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: But again, you tell your friends you're gonna be a rapper, everyone's gonna be like, dude, what are you talking about?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do that.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Please don't do that.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's just how it is.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but once you start to figure stuff out, your friends come around, your family comes around, whatever.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you show them how dedicated you are, they see it, whatever, you're not gonna stop no matter what.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone eventually is like, okay, yeah, like I just got off tour, and like I said, my friends from high school were there, and they're just like, Who would have fucking thought?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like that you were just because they've watched you play for a thousand people and absolutely crush it.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like, yeah, who would have thought when I told you guys when I was 16 I wanted to rap, and everyone's like, that's the craziest shit we've ever heard in our life.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: That 10 years from now we'd be at a show in front of a thousand people that like we're going crazy to every word, and we did the thing, like it's it's crazy, but definitely starting off, I mean, it just comes with the territory, it's it's gonna put you through the ringer, so you got some good stuff to write the songs about for sure.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of those accomplishments?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you mentioned you've already done most of what you've you know set out for in the music industry so far, everything else is a bonus.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of those things that you were dreaming about as a teenager performing in front of a bunch of people?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: What else uh has been on your kind of like wish list that you've accomplished so far?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's always been very performance driven.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's just my favorite part about the whole thing is I love doing that.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, like you're saying, the fact that I have just spent the last four years nonstop touring and I headlined shows across the world like this year that were none of them sold out, but they were all tickets away from selling out, so it drove me crazy that we got no sellouts and everything was just like five or ten tickets away.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: But um, it's just crazy to just be able to say that, first of all.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing is a couple years ago, uh I got the life-changing record deal that everyone fights for their life for.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing much came from it, to be honest, but I got it, so that's fantastic, really cool.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then yeah, just the fact that the last 10 years, I dude, I've never had a real job outside of school.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like I went to school and I trained professional athletes for two weeks as a requirement to complete my degree, which wasn't like a fitness-based thing.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And as soon as I finished, I moved to LA with like a thousand dollars in my bank account and was like, I am fucked if I don't figure this out.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then inexplicably, as soon as I moved to LA, one of my songs blew up overnight and started paying all my bills.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then that was me being like, Yep, the universe just gave me the sign that this is all systems go.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: And uh ever since then, yeah, like the last decade, I've just been being creative for my job.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, what more could you ever possibly want than that?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, dude, 100%.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And congrats too.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a it's a dream that you know not many people get to accomplish, especially at such a young age.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: So big congrats on all of that.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And talk to me about confidence, you know, the confidence A to go out and perform when all your high school friends are telling you not to do it, and the confidence to literally move across the country with no sure bet that's in front of you.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you gotta have an extreme amount of confidence in yourself.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Where does that come from?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: The performance-based stuff was I honestly was just so obsessed with watching YouTube videos.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, as soon as I found music, I spent every day just watching people perform on YouTube and like watching vlogs from other artist tours and stuff like that.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, this is exactly what I want to be doing.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it was basically just like studying.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also, I mean, I was when I initially started touring when I was like not touring, but I guess performing when I was 18 and touring when I was like early 20s, uh, I was heavily put being pushed and just involved in like the there's like this niche genre called frat rap, which is just like party rap, and you'd go to like colleges and stuff.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: So the alcohol certainly helped back then.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I don't drink anymore, and I perform sober, completely sober now, anyway.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's just like a muscle you gotta work, dude.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's like the because I have such a fitness background too with my degree and stuff, where it's like I realize my vocal cords are muscles, you just gotta train those, like your mind is a muscle to just being like, yeah, this is gonna be really scary.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it still is walking out in front of a crowd of a thousand people dirt sober as an opener, not like as a headliner, being like, Yeah, I don't know if anyone is about to like what they're about to hear, and I'm just gonna have to eat it.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it just becomes part of the game and it becomes fun at some point where you get enough confidence where you've put your reps in and done enough where it's just like, I have to win this crowd over and it's gonna be a lot of work, but I know that I put in the work and I know I can do it, so let's just go fucking do it, you know?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just the same thing I always tell everyone when they ask me for music advice for them like it's like a sport, you gotta show up and practice every single day, and eventually you're gonna be good at what you do.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's the reps, man.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's no there's no overnight, it's you gotta put the reps in and practice and just continue building that foundation.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Were you nervous moving to LA?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Were you did you have a level of confidence that you knew something was gonna happen?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Was the label, you know, uh uh uh, you know, a push to make you do that?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, talk to me about that because I have a lot of young musicians that hit me up often asking that same question, like, hey man, my town doesn't have anything to offer me anymore.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: I want to move to Nashville or LA.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you really just gotta do it, whether it works or not, you have to just do it and experience it and put in those reps.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: What was your mindset on that move?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I did the the LA move was actually like five years pre-label.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I was independent for like the first five years I was in LA.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I was confident, but I also wasn't confident because I was like, I'll just move back home with my parents if I go, bro, because I'm 21.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's totally fine.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: But uh what I did before I got there was I did for like three months, I lined up like sessions and video shoots, and like every day for like the first three months I was in LA, I was doing something.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um whether it was like networking and going out and meeting a bunch of people in a studio with a new producer that I saw working with someone I thought was cool, uh, begging videographers to shoot for like next to nothing, and some of them would because they're in the same boat as me, and everyone was just trying to make it out there.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, like just taking advantage of resources and people in the same boat as you, like, I'll never forget the first video I shot in LA.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: None of us could afford to eat, so we all split an appetite one appetizer between the three of us, like me and the video crew, because all of us had just moved there and we were dirt broke.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just finding people in the same boat that you feel like match your mindset, where it's like we're gonna make this happen no matter what.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: And every single one of those people I met, every single one of them made it.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, all of them were fresh to LA, every single one made it because I found the people where I was like, they have to know and just be crazy enough to think they're gonna do this.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And once you find those people, stay with those people.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because I watched a lot of people in LA fail and move home, and the only ones that made it were the ones that I found and was like, this person matches me.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: They get what it takes to get here.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we're eating one appetizer together and no one's complaining because we're just happy to be here.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's inexplicable to me how everyone that I've talked to uh that I talked to in those first couple months seemingly made it because it just everyone matched the same mindset.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Love that for you too.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's huge.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Finding your people is is a massive part of the success formula, if you will.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And what was what was your energy in in in yeah, I guess, you know, sensing that those people were your people for a young, aspiring musician listening to this, how can they also build that kind of aura of, okay, these are my people and these aren't?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because inevitably you're gonna come across people that are your people and you're gonna stick with them.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: But how do you have that kind of uncomfortable conversation if you're like this just isn't working?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Have you experienced that?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And what kind of advice would you give an aspiring musician in that situation?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's like a couple ways I feel like I approached it.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like LA's LA, and if if you don't vibe with someone, you don't really just have to talk to them again because it's such a big city.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, all right, we we tried that.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: But finding the people, it's it's so tough.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I would just it in this air day and age and era, like there's definitely things that should be happening.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like they should be posting content and they should be getting better as they go at posting content.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it shouldn't be some lazy stuff of them just like putting their phone down and lip syncing their song.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it should actively look like they're trying a lot of ideas, and I'm like, okay, that takes one box.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: The next box would be are they actually dropping music?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've been in LA for almost 10 years now, and there's like a certain niche of person that swears they're an artist, but they never drop music and they're not ever posting about anything music related.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: They just swear they're a musician.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's like y'all, and they just like to go out and party and like take pictures and do all this stuff and seem like they're super lit.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yeah, y'all can keep that one.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's like a no for me.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, frequent music drops, like any open mic, any showcase, like they're begging them to play, like, please give me a slot, I'll do it for free, like whatever it is.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um stuff like that, or just events that they don't even see people performing at be like, yo, I'll pull up with a speaker and a mic, like let me do this, or stuff like that is just the type of person that's willing to do anything and everything, period, is what you need to be looking for.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because even where I'm at, I'm still willing to do any and everything, period, to get where I want to go to the next level.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if that's helpful, but that's just what I would be looking for is someone that ticks the content box, the frequent release box, and the like anything they can to get in front of people performing to get reps in for sure.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, stay hungry.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Stay hungry, man.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Never settle.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: You spent years, you know, proving to people, the industry, yourself, that you were doing this without anybody's permission, really.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: You signed that label deal and you've got a new record out now that you're, you know, with a new team.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about finding those labels and finding those people.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And in this day and age, what made you go with the label?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need a label, or is it sometimes better to stay kind of DIY until you can get to a certain point?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's the worst answer of all time is like you can do whatever you want.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: But um, funnily enough, like speaking of doing anything and everything, I actually with Network, who I'm releasing the song with, I hit them up directly where I was like, hey, y'all are on my list of like your artists actually seem happy and it seems like you're doing stuff.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's talk about putting something out if that interests you at all.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And when I had the funnily enough, like it's so crazy how this stuff works.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: I made like a list, and that week, uh, Dom from Network followed me after I put them on the list, and I was like, dude, crazy timing.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is wild.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: We should talk about this.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it obviously led to something great, and I'm super happy.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't think I'm an artist that necessarily needs a label.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an artist that wants one, which is a lot different, where some artists aren't really self-sufficient and they don't understand the content thing or they don't understand the touring thing and they need a team to come in and kind of like coach them through everything.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not really that artist because I am so from such a DIY background that I kind of still get freedom to do the things I want to do because Network's awesome and they give me that flexibility where it's like, I'm gonna make this album, I want to do it this way, I want to do the content this way, amazing, like uh stuff like that.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: But it just depends.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I wouldn't get in a label deal if I didn't have leverage for stuff like that, where it's like, hey, I've built my social media, I clearly know what I'm doing, like I want a hand in that.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I have half a billion streams, I think that means I know what I'm doing.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want to say in the sound of the music and stuff.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I would prefer that.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: There are some artists where it actually does make sense to sign because you can't do anything.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you just stumble across a good deal and you have no idea what you're doing, maybe that'll kind of speed run you through how to do it.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're done with that deal, you're able to do it yourself.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's that route as well.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um it just dep, I guess it just kind of depends where everyone's at.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, like I want these things because I need some workload taken off of my shoulders because I am so actively involved in it all.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Where it's like, if a label's gonna come in and actually help, why would I not take that?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is a great situation I'm in now where they provide value.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: They're getting me so many things I couldn't get by myself.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, this is progressing me way faster than if I was independent.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: So let's keep doing this as long as we can.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: But you stayed independent enough to, like you said, build that credibility so that you could sit at the table and say, I'm already doing these things.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Here's things that I want resource-wise or whatever it may be that you can't accomplish yourself anymore.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: And just everybody on the train together is gonna make it go to the moon that much, I guess, quicker, but also just stronger.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's super important to dwell on a minute because there's a lot of young musicians that reach out to us and it's like we need a manager or we need a label.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: And when that happens, that's when we'll do a great tour or people will come to our shows.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not, it doesn't just magically happen.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: You have to definitely put in the work on your own and build that foundation yourself so that whether whatever it is, a label, booking agent, uh, manager comes in and is just an additional auxiliary piece to that machine.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that seems to be working well for you.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it's a testament to the hard work you put in and all the reps in the first decade plus of your career.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think, like, if I was one of these label artists from the start, I don't think I would even still be making music.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think that I wanted I'm so annoying where it's like the only reason I'm doing this is to prove everyone wrong, and it's like I cannot let these people be right.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, figure it out and figure it out as soon as you can, you know?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I've always just kind of had that mindset, and then once the labels started coming in, there's been good situations, there's been bad situations in the past, but like every situation I took, I knew the consequences.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: I read my contract.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like a lot of these artists are always talking about how labels screw them over, and it's just like, dude, did you not read the contract?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how you can get screwed over when you legally read the terms and signed the piece of paper.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, I've always waited till I had leverage in really good spots where things are moving well, and that's when you start those conversations.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, that's my only advice is to like maybe you are that artist that's completely clueless and you want to be coached through everything, but I don't necessarily think that's a sustainable path.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you're only gonna be a successful label or not, whether you want it the most out of everybody else, like with the content stuff, with the touring.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: A label can't make you tour, label can't make you post content, they can't make you grind and become a better songwriter.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you're gonna sign that record deal and it is literally still all on you.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: All they can do is pour fuel on the fire that you make for yourself.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: If that makes sense.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: No, 100%.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I strongly believe in obviously putting in the work, there's there's nothing that can replace that, but manifesting I think is huge.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that the dude from Network followed you while you were kind of writing that down, there's there's power in journaling and writing things down that you want to accomplish.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: And nothing if you want to get into that, not to cut you off.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: The exact life-changing record deal I signed, I wrote down a thousand times on paper.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was the exact number.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Incredible.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: I've done all kinds of scripting stuff with the manifesting stuff, which I've never really talked about because no one's ever really brought it up.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: But like, I also feel like I have always been very good at that for sure.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about that, man.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it's powerful, and nothing bugs me more than a musician that I see that has incredible talent, but I can just tell that the fuel isn't necessarily there where it's just like, well, when all these people hit me up, that's when I'll kind of go.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, no, dude, you need to all the things we just talked about, but also you need to write it down and put it into the universe and see it happening and truly believe it.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, if and when, and it's a strong if that comes your way, you're not gonna be ready.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Before I go into meetings, I feel the room, I have the opening, I know what I'm gonna talk about, and I know what the end result that I want to accomplish going into that meeting is gonna be.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't manifest and walk yourself through that, how do you you can't you're not practicing that, you're not putting that into the universe?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of those things that have worked well for you, you know, universally, energetically, whatever however you want to term it, that you wouldn't.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Have accomplished if you didn't kind of go through that practice yourself.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's so interesting because even when I was a kid, I feel like I was good at it without like writing it down.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: I just would like, like you're saying, I would like feel it, and then it would kind of end up happening eventually.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: But like when the pandemic hit, everything was so scary, I was kind of freaking out.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I mean, everyone's numbers were kind of dropping, and everyone was like, What are we doing with touring?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: And what does this look like?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And labels were like, shit, we're not really gonna sign stuff.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was kind of just weird.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I just started writing stuff down.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like I got super into like manifestation stuff and like scripting, and I would every day for two years, I think, I would write what it would look like if I got like my dream record deal.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then lo and behold, as soon as the pandemic ends, it it happens, and there it is.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's what I've wanted my entire life for, what I've been working for.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, once in a lifetime type record deal.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you get that again, you get struck by lightning twice.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd say those are the same odds.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, it's crazy.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Every single time that I've really wanted something, I've been able to kind of just like before I even knew what manifestation was, I would just like imagine what it felt like a lot, and then it would kind of just end up happening.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which is interesting.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: It is super interesting.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: What went wrong with that record deal?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: What did you learn from that?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you you talk about it being a once-in-a-lifetime deal.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Walk me through what that felt like getting it.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned earlier, you know, it was cool to get it, but it wasn't it didn't seem like what you expected.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what were some of the takeaways from that experience that you had?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: It changed my life, and I'm gonna never not be grateful for that.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: But it's one of those things where it's like when you're getting a label deal that big, it's like, yeah, this is like crazy money.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna be able to do so much stuff to like like spend-wise, like ads, whatever they need to do to like get this stuff on.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's did you think that late back then it was like playlisting on Spotify was the big thing?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you think the labels could push some button and then you'd be on all these Spotify playlists, and that's just not the case.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like the biggest thing for me was that your label can be told no for the Spotify playlist, you know what I mean?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or like they can just be ignored and and no one really acknowledges uh that you're submitting or whatever.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and it was a new label, which I knew going into it again, it's like know what you're signing and know what you're getting yourself into, and I totally did, but it was just shocking to me how big a deal could be and not really move the needle, I guess, the way I wanted it to.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's when I kind of was like, okay, noted, and that's when I took it into my own hands and started figuring out the content game and started going viral on like TikTok and Instagram and all that stuff because I realized that like no matter how much money is involved, that's when it came down to just me.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna just be me.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: And no matter what, it's always gonna be just me.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And all they can really do is be like capitalize on moments for sure.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, it was just it was a little reality check for me, and I was able to be realistic with myself the entire time anyway, where I was like, I knew what I sign, like whatever.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's on me now, it's on me.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: We got some money from this label.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go film our own content too, and like double down on stuff and and make up for the lack of knowledge and experience that way.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, nothing but good things to say either way, but yeah, I mean, these dudes changed my life and it was awesome.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: But it was a newer label with not as much pull as like other labels had, and they were looking for a big signee, and I was that one they wanted to take the risk on, so I'm obviously super grateful.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's just it was just crazy to me that there could be so much money going into something, and the needle's not going to move unless the artist moves the needle, you know?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: You talk about moving to LA and you know, splitting an app with multiple people.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me a little bit as much as you're comfortable with about what that financial side looks like.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's not a lot of talk in the industry that young musicians and even musicians that are out there doing it, you'd be surprised at how many active musicians that are that have amazing gigs that I speak with that are just like, yo, I got offered this gig and they're offering me this.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't ever made this much money before, you know, and I'm talking like a thousand bucks a week almost.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, no, dude, like ask for like four or five times that to set the bar high for yourself so you can have a livable wage.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about that label in the financial investment they made into you.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Did that give you a buffer for how long?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And what did that what did that do for you as far as all the things you have to pay for?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Rent, food, insurance, all of that as an adult living on your own, chasing the dream.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: What were some of the realities of the financial side?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm such a like bulletproof everything person that I basically took it all and invested it.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, good job, younger me, for that.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I mean, yeah, like like I said, it was a life-changing record dealing amount of money.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I did I didn't really have to worry about income for years.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, and you see a lot of horror stories about artists that spend all their money and then they go broke, and I was like, that's not gonna be me.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm putting this shit away in all the right places.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like a psycho on like investment research as soon as I signed the deal to make sure I didn't fuck it up.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then yeah, like yeah, just financially, just having that off your plate and the freedom to create is like super nice.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Or I was able to pull trigger on stuff that I never would have been able to.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like a year ago, I started touring a lot, so I bought a sprinter van.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't have been able to do that without a record deal.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it died in a year because of how much we toured, which is really funny, but we definitely got our money's worth from it.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and just stuff like that, like you're saying, like rent paid, bills paid, insurance never comes through labels, which sucks, but it is what it is.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I was able to just get good health insurance and not really worry about stuff.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was able to tour way more because I knew if I lost some money, it'd be okay, you know.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that was also super helpful.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's also why we signed it, was where it's like it was a it was three albums that I was able to put out in two years.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't even a long period of time for what we signed for.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we were like, we're gonna take this so that when this deal ends, we're gonna be able to do our own thing and know we're good, basically.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's exactly what happened.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I mean, again, for my situation, it was exactly what I wanted to do and what I was looking for financially.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we just took it and made sure I wasn't done with the stuff that I got out of it, and it it worked out totally fine, despite you know, frustrations of you know not moving the needle as much as I wanted.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: But again, I was able to go shoot content because everyone was still skeptical of content back then.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't quite working as much.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of I funded it myself and then showed my label it's working, and then they funded the rest of it for me.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I was able to just do stuff like that where I could do proof of concept before so that I could actually show them it's gonna work, which was cool.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Super smart, man.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Who taught you or where did you learn how to invest?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: What's what's a couple of the tips and tricks you can give, you know, these young musicians that might be, you know, in your footsteps getting a deal like that, because it's so smart.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Using your money to just make money while you're sleeping.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Most people and most musicians that I've had the privilege of hanging out with and watching them live their dream.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, dude, all that money's gone, you know, not even a house to speak of.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and the fact that you learned how to invest is unbelievably smart.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Where'd you get that kind of intel?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: I learned it where I learned everything, which is good old YouTube university.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'd literally would just find like the most subscribed dudes talking about investments, and I would like watch all their videos, note the similarities of the stuff they're saying, and then just kind of like apply to what I want to do.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Most of it's index funds, and that's the way it should be anyway.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, like there's been some really big plays of individual stocks of just dudes talking about it on fucking YouTube that I've hit.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I've also been in Bitcoin for a while now, and that's been working out super well.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, that's very high risk, not a lot of money in that, but um just kind of being in the know of the way the market moves and works, and it sucks getting used to buying when everything's red because it's so scary.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I finally mastered that eventually and didn't just buy when things were green because that's not the best way to do it.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, YouTube university, man.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I learned to record my own music.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's where I find like ideas and how to get better at content.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's how I learned how to invest, it's how I do literally everything.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: I just browse YouTube for hours until it sounds like someone knows what they're talking about.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, that's awesome.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: How many miles did you guesstimate you put on that sprinter?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was like 80,000 in a year.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Dang, dude.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we bought it at like 100.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was super cheap anyway.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we were planning on just the logic was just this needs to get us through three tours to make more sense than renting a van in a dead.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, put good old.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: We called her Becky.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: She had a good life.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Nice for sure.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: A quick life.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: That yeah.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: But all those logistics are things that these these aspiring musicians need to be thinking about, you know, like literally things like that rental versus owning it, and at what point it makes more sense to invest and you know, take that risk and all of that.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's super smart, man.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: You've made a lot of great decisions in your life, and it and it shows and the flexibility that it allows you to have that creative freedom, uh, just must feel amazing.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, props to you for doing all that.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: Hell yeah.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: I try to do my best.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always learning, but I think I'm doing okay so far for sure.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk a little bit about the record before all the streams and in the tours and this new record that by the time this is out on Adobe, the record's gonna be out.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you were a kid that had anxiety and some trauma growing up about, you know, who you were and where you were gonna be putting your time and devoting your energy.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: You were just a kid trying to figure out where you belonged.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: If that 13, 14-year-old Ryan heard this album, which song would that kid need the most?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Probably either superhero or slow motion, I think.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: What would those songs do?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, go ahead.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, what what give me more, you know, what what what what uh what do those songs mean to you now that you think uh a 13, 14-year-old kid in your shoes can take away from?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: I just think that like slow motion just kind of embodies like what a disassociative episode is, and I was having a lot of those as a kid too, so it's just kind of walking you through what that feels like, and I I didn't know what was going on when I was a kid, so I probably would have connected with it and been hey, like I finally have words to what I'm feeling, basically, you know?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: And superhero is just about not having to internalize everything, like I don't want to be someone who is a superhero.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like the lyrics are like, I don't want to be a superhero, I just want to bleed like everyone.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just being a human being and not having to carry weight on your shoulders anymore that you've been carrying for so long, and being able to be a human and and just kind of like not have to take the problems of the world and hold it up yourself and kind of just enjoy not having to do that for once because it was it was something I did a lot as a kid, and I think that it would have helped a lot for sure.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Being a kid's tough, man, especially like you said earlier, wanting to be a musician, and it's rare that there's a young kid that wants to be a rapper that actually becomes successful.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely anxiety-provoking, and we see it.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: We bring a lot of students into the van's warp tour to perform, and you know, we can watch their confidence build over a weekend of performing in front of people and getting those reps, but it is man.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Did you did you find it easy pulling from your teenage years, or was it a little bit of an emotional journey for you?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like early on it was a more emotional journey, but now it's just kind of therapeutic where I get to revisit that and and kind of just be like from the outside looking in, kind of like how you're saying, like, what would your 13-year-old self need to hear?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, what would they need to hear?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: We kind of approach it that way.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've always been super huge on therapy.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: When you need it, I don't need it right now because my life is awesome and I am very happy.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: But it's also nice to go back and like heal those old wounds by like kind of talking about it some more in the music and stuff.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that long term it's been helping me a lot because some songs I've written about the same thing several times, and I keep finding new stuff and ways to word it where I'm like, this makes way more sense, or ways to present it, where it's like, I don't know, visiting things multiple times, even it kind of heals the wounds even more in a case.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you don't need to beat a dead horse, but at the same time, like if you still want to talk about it, your brain probably still wants to talk about it, so go talk about it, if that makes sense.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Who'd you collaborate with on this record in the writing sessions?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have a team of producers?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: And who on that team pulled something out of you that you wouldn't have found on your own?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Very funny.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Besides the people who collaborated, uh, me and Jaden Seeley, who was in a band called With Confidence back in the day, is now like my executive producer.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: We wrote every single song, just us two.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: I like doing it that way because I'm a firm believer the best music, no matter what, is gonna come with people who trust who you trust and are your friend and you're not scared to fail in front of.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: All the time, people are asking me, like, hey, do you want to get a session with this guy because he did this song, or it's this notoriety-filled producer with all these plaques or whatever?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like that's really cool, and I'm sure we'd make really good music.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I talk about heavy stuff in my music, and it's tough to be talking about that with a stranger.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: One, but two, it's a lot harder to be willing to fail in front of a stranger.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Where with I'm a Jaden, I'm like, is this shit ass?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, tell me if this is ass.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Yeah, it's ass.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then we'll like go back and redo it.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's someone who just knows you deeply well, especially when you're making music like the type of music I make.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think the best type of songs are going to be made that way, as opposed to some super producer with a bunch of plaques on their wall.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we've been super in-house with this album.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Funnily enough, we're finishing up the next album next month, so we got tons of music.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: But collaboration-wise, like John London threw some extra production on my song This Life or The Next with Point North because he is the one of the most forward-thinking rock producers right now, if not the most, to me.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: When I hear Point North's production on their songs, I'm like, this shit is the coolest thing ever.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: More people need to be paying attention to the way they're doing this because it's just so original and forward-thinking to me.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it was cool to have him add production on that.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was amazing to have Cody from Set It Off write a full verse on my song.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was just kind of expecting him to sing the chorus or something, and he was like, nah, like I'm gonna go in and rap on this shit.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's really cool.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was really a pleasant surprise on my end, and the fact that it turned out so well was crazy.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: The boys in Missio, um, they actually added more production themselves too and completely rewrote the hook I had to a better one.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, it was cool with Missio because he texted me on the side and was just like talking about how much he related to the song and how important it was for him to kind of nail it for me, which is cool because some collabs end up transactional, but like every single one on this album was like a friend thing, and that's why I think it turned out so organic feeling.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then yeah, there's gonna be Chloe Adams on Crashing the Party, which drops on release day.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Nailed the singing.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: She's super cool and easy to work with.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she sang the chorus we wrote because she's a way better singer than I am, and it made the song 10 times better.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: So super grateful she was willing to jump on.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy putting a pop song like that on the album, and especially as the title track, but I kind of love it because people aren't gonna expect it.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone loves the spooky sounds of the album.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: But when I show them that song with Chloe, everyone's like, fuck, dude, I don't want to say it, but this might be the best one.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's cool to have people say that about like a song that almost didn't necessarily fit on the album.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to see people's reactions on that for sure.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so and it sounds like obviously collaborating with the right people, finding your people and finding your tribe.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's there's such a thing as a creative block, which we all face from time to time, but from the sounds of it, you've got this album coming out in September and you've already got enough enough uh new songs to have an entirely another album right on the back of it, which is rare, but it just goes to show once you can get those creative juices flowing with your people, you know, there's no end in sight.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and just why stop?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like going back to talking about how I like bulletproof everything, I'm obviously gonna be on network for a while because it just works so well and everything's going great.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: But say something crazy happened and the label doesn't want to work with you again, or you know, something just weird happens where they're not gonna pick up your option, why would you not have new music ready to go so you can instantly start to earn some income back?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know, it's just always been weird to me, or crazy to me, that they'll an artist will drop an album and have no music they're sitting on.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, dude, are you not nervous about that right now?
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of crazy.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy, especially in this day and age, but that just might be me and the anxiety.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's just like you gotta have shit ready.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, of obviously there's multiple income streams and different pillars, and and all of them are important.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: But if you were to answer a young musician asking you, hey, as far as revenue and income, what makes the most sense?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is it label?
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is it putting out content?
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is it brand deals?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is it touring and merch?
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where would you say the economics lie in all of the different areas coming in for you?
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: The economics lie in like this is gonna sound crazy, but let me let me cook for a second.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: It lies in like the future.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I put out 300 songs on Spotify.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of them did pretty good, so there's a lot of money there, and like having a catalog is super valuable, especially say I want to walk away whenever you can just sell it for like an 8 to 12 multiple, and you're like coasting, it's it's making like a good amount of money a year.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: You can really set yourself up that way.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, touring is the same thing.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: Both of these take massive investment up front, which sucks, or you can learn to produce a mix yourself, which is free.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I did not do that route.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I spent two or three years not making money or losing money on tour, and I just got back from the like first year of touring where I actually made money and now it's like, oh, this is a really good business for us now.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad I lost that upfront money because now we're gonna be able to make a lot of money, hopefully, in the future off that.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the content, yeah, like if you go viral, there's definitely money in it.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's not gonna change your life, but it'll pay your some of your bills every month, which is super nice.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I've never signed a brand deal, so I can't speak on brand deals, which is kind of crazy.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I just don't feel like a lot of it aligns.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I also feel like if I'm gonna try to sell people something, just sell them the merch.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Just like post about the merch and try to do it that way.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh brand deals, I'm super iffy on.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: It would have to be like super mega aligned and make a lot of sense.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's like just a big check, I don't know if I could justify doing it unless I really needed it, um, which some people might.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if you want to do that route, I think that'll work too.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: What's the end goal for you?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that that eight to twelve multiplier of your catalog and things like that.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you see yourself and at what point do you see yourself trying to quote unquote cash in on something like that?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you see yourself doing later in life?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is it always music?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have aspirations to do something else and pivot?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you where do you go from here?
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: I already kind of did the catalog thing.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like I sold half of it when I signed that big deal a few years ago.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, like definitely whenever I would do that.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: Whenever, you know, it's just kind of what I'm ready to do.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean I'm done with music by any means.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: It just means I'm ready to not have to worry about money from music for sure, because it was so long where I was splitting appetizers, like I was talking about, where it's just like it's so nice to have a safety net.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: I know what to do with it, I know how to invest it.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: That part of it is like in the most non-apathetic way, it's just like whatever to me.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love to have a pile of money as opposed to waiting for streaming checks to hit.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know how long I'll do this, to be honest.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I definitely can acknowledge I'm in like the third quarter where it's like, yeah, I'm I'm in early 30s and I I don't see myself necessarily touring forever, but I also love it so much and it's finally becoming profitable, so it's like probably just ride it out until I my body is just too old.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I think I always have to make some sort of music because it's so ingrained into me.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I do think there's a day where I will put the Ryan Oaks project to rest and maybe try something else out and try to have fun a different way with music.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I just feel like I always, even when I was a kid before music, like I was saying, with wanting to be a director or get into like cinematography, there's just always something creative I have to be doing to feel sane.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: So whether I mean, I don't know.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I'll be 45 years old still putting on music, but maybe, but if not, I think I would try to do something creative like that, or I'm so good at social media, and I I can I kind of enjoy it that I could get like a job doing that at a label or whatever, uh, or just try to be full-blown influencer.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think that would kind of suck, but I feel like that's definitely a route I could take.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, it would always have to be something creative, it would always have to be something therapeutic.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's production.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: I've gotten into producing.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not great at it, but I know how to do it enough where I could make a demo and then bring it to the producer to make it sound good.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I feel like the options are kind of endless.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: I always think about this where it's like, what's next?
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I every time I think what's next, something happens in music where it's like, gotta focus on this.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter what's next.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll, I guess we'll just have to find out.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: What what advice would you give a young, 14, 18-year-old musician trying to, you know, follow your footsteps and kind of like coming off of what you just said is like you can have a game plan, but there's always something that's the universe is gonna put in your place in front of you that years later you're like, I needed that, and that was the right, that was the right move.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is patience the biggest thing, or what's some of the the kind of ending advice you would give to kind of wrap up your whole career so far?
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like the biggest lesson that I was like destined to learn in life was patience, just because man, did this take way longer than I thought it was gonna take.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you start making music, you're like, Yeah, in two or three years, I'm gonna be torn the world, like shit's gonna be lit.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Figure it all out.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like 14 years later, I just got all of that.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, it's just it's a lot of patience with yourself, especially, because people, I just feel like people don't even realize I still make horrific songs.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's like some days are just a crapshoot and you can't think of anything, and you gotta be patient with yourself because sometimes it's just like I know every biggest artist fears when they make a bad song that they're not gonna be able to make a good song again.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, no, dude, you've made a million good songs, it's all good, you just had a bad day.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: Don't freak out about it.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, patience with yourself for sure, and just patience in general.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: You might get lucky and you might have a fast journey.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it's always been I've always been the turtle in the rabbit race where it's like just consistency, consistency, consistency over 14 years.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is how I got to where I am, and there was no other formula that was gonna be for me.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's just how it was gonna be for me in my journey.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it's gonna be like that for a lot of people because not a lot of people are gonna hit that overnight thing.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, patience for sure.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me quick about genres.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you collaborated with some incredible bands and point north, set it off.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: These bands have kind of like crossed genres.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think genres matter?
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, putting a label on somebody or an artist.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts on that?
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: And in kind of crossing over and collaborating with people in a in a band like with confidence, you know, like there's a time where I think that it was like a a big no-no or a taboo thing to do that.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: But what are your thoughts on that and what got you to the point of even networking with those guys to begin with?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there's friction right now, a little bit of friction, but not a lot, with like artists in the industry, because I feel like a lot of artists right now are being like, yeah, there's there's no genre.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm definitely one of those people where if I make one genre for one album or more, I'm gonna get so bored of it that I'm gonna hate making music and I can't do that.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: I have to just bounce around and make whatever I think is cool that day.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it seems like the industry side of it, they like kind of get it a lot.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like Network definitely gets it, which is why I chose them as a partner.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of people will be like, I guess a lot, some genres are still looking for a formula, you know what I'm saying?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know if you see what I'm saying, but like they want you to make a song a certain way so they can support it, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I do think there's a little a difference of mindset still, but I do think that that gap is getting shorter daily, where it's just like some stuff you just can't ignore.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that song was set it off as so crazy and undeniably good that it finally got the attention from a lot of people in the rock space we were looking for.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because with me, I'm just a solo person.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: So when I say I want to do like rock leaning stuff, there's some skepticism there because well, you need a band, and I'm like, yeah, I can just bring a band.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's that's all good.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think people are getting it.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot more like solo rock rock acts popping up and stuff like that.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: So the lines seem to get more blurred every day, and I'm very excited because it's a great time to be a genre bending person because I can do the rock tours, I can do the rap tours, I could probably do a punk or new new metal metal core tour.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that's exactly what I'm designing my stuff for, where it's like no matter what opportunity, we're gonna crush it, and it's gonna get us a whole new look in front of new fans.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, your parents, how what's your relationship with them?
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: And do they come and see you?
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: What's the support system there like?
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: Have you kind of like made them believers now since uh as a teen?
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: They thought you were crazy trying to get into this world.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, yeah.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, the first few years, obviously, again, I would never blame my parents for that because I'm mature enough to look back and be like, yeah, that's a craziest thing to tell your parents.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, they come to every show they can make.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: I tour so much that I see them often.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we see each other for the holidays and stuff like that.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: Great relationship.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, it's funny.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, once you I had like proof it was working, they were like kind of a sigh of relief, or they're like, okay, it's gonna be fine.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's all good.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: We'll support you now.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's great, man.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, cool, Ryan, dude.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for your time, man.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: Records out.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: What can you tease for the remainder of 2026 into 27?
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where can people find you?
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: What do you want to leave the Adobe listeners with?
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: I believe there will be more than just the album dropping music-wise before the year's over.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: There will be a big old headline tour dropping shortly, probably in October.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: Big features coming as well.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, all good stuff.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: Everything's moving.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: Come see me on social media.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: I make a lot of fun content.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: I might be entertaining to you, maybe not, but Ryan Oak's music on everything.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I hope you guys enjoy the album.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: It is a really good album, and I would love for you to check it out.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: Heck yeah, man.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for spending the time with us and sharing incredible wisdom.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: I enjoyed the conversation, and thanks for being an open book talking about everything, man.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really appreciate having you on.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: Hell yeah, thanks for having me anytime.