Latest / MIDDLE GROUND - Real Conversations on Faith, Identity & Becoming — Through Brynne's LDS Lens of Curiosity, Love and Doubt / Gay Marriage, Mormon Faith Crisis, and Having a Baby: Our Story of Love — Alex & Parker
Transcript
- Brynne Erickson (00:30) Al. Parker, I am so excited for this conversation tonight. How are you guys feeling about coming on the podcast? Parker & Alex (00:38) Good. Yeah, we feel really good about it. Really good. Excited. Yeah, we're excited to be here. Thank you for having us. Brynne Erickson (00:44) Awesome, I am thrilled. Al, you and I go way back. Back. Basically, but for sure the bowl haircut days of kindergarten. Parker & Alex (00:47) since probably birth. Yeah. gosh. Those were Alex's best days. I've seen the pictures and that bowl cut cannot be stopped. Yes. It's incredible. And white hair. Yep. Thanks my mom for that. Yes, we do. Brynne Erickson (01:00) That was good hair. No, that was... Yes, toe head bowl. It was amazing. But we go way back. Good old Chris, she's awesome. So awesome. Let's allow our listeners to get to know you guys. So how long have you been married? Parker & Alex (01:23) Next week, five years. Brynne Erickson (01:26) Congratulations. So how'd you guys meet? Okay. Parker & Alex (01:27) Yeah. Thank you. Together 11. We met on Tinder back in 2014. So we've known each other for over 10 years now, which is crazy to think about. It is a long time. And in gay years, it's an eternity, honestly. So 100 years. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, like human years to dog years. How many, you know? Brynne Erickson (01:39) Okay, that's a long time. Parker & Alex (01:54) how old the dog is if he's five. It's kind of like that with gays too, honestly. and relationships. Brynne Erickson (02:00) yeah? Why do you say that? Can you explain? Parker & Alex (02:04) I sometimes just gaze look for the next best thing instead of being happy with what they have. I think that's what it boils down to. So, yeah, it's a it's a tough community to jive with sometimes. But ⁓ Alex and I don't too much, honestly. We're kind of in our own little bubble and figured out lives for our own lives and what we want for ourselves. And I've kind of I feel like we've kind of broken the mold of like what a normal. Gay. experience. What's normal? Yeah. Normal quote unquote. Yeah. Normal quote unquote. Right. So Brynne Erickson (02:35) That is a good question. Mm-hmm. for sure. And are you both Utah guys? Born and raised? Parker & Alex (02:43) Yep. Yep. He was he was born in Provo. Yeah. I have an area. So. Yep. Just down the street. Basically an hour and a half. But yeah. Yeah. Brynne Erickson (02:55) Nice. I know, basically. Okay, so how long after coming out did you guys find each other? Parker & Alex (03:04) geez. We were not out when we met. ⁓ know people speculated a while for me, but. Yeah, it was. So when we met, ⁓ I was fresh off a Mormon mission. I'd only been home. I got home in May and we met in August. End of August. End of August. Yeah. So pretty quick. It kind of jumped into. Brynne Erickson (03:07) ⁓ okay. Parker & Alex (03:33) dating guys for the first time. ⁓ Alex was the first person I met off of Tinder. No, and then Parker was that no. Yep, Parker was at BYU and so he was terrified with the honor code. Yeah, I was I was insecure with myself and that was a big reason as well. But also, yeah, I did not want to get my schooling situation all messed up. Brynne Erickson (03:40) But you hadn't come out yet, but you were exploring. Hmm. Parker & Alex (04:03) that quick. So your senior year you came up with a you should talk. Yeah. So I actually I came out my senior year of college at BYU. This was in twenty seventeen to twenty eighteen. ⁓ So I didn't come out until significantly after four years almost after I met Alex. But during that whole time before that we were we were dating for almost all of that time. ⁓ Brynne Erickson (04:03) Yeah. Okay. Parker & Alex (04:32) So we kind of kept it on the down low and both still attended church. Both still did what we thought, you know, was the best thing for us while we were trying to navigate life and figure out, you know, what the next step was. But, know, and we got engaged and that's when I publicly came out. Yeah. The picture of us. But I people speculated. Yeah. It was the worst kept secret. Brynne Erickson (04:52) Wow, okay. Yeah. Parker & Alex (04:58) People guessed for sure. And it's because Alex and I were together all the time. Like we just always were. If Alex was going somewhere, I was typically there too. ⁓ So and we just say we're roommates. Yeah. Really friendly roommates. Best friends. Yeah. So. Brynne Erickson (05:00) Yeah. interesting. Wow. So you had your relationship and that you were gay for that long? Parker & Alex (05:20) Yes. Yeah. My my coming out stuff was like a roller coaster because like my mission I got sick and I thought it was because God was punishing me. So I came out I had to go through correction therapy in order to go back. So they had me do a service mission and then they thought I was healed as made straight. So he's so I had to come out again. Brynne Erickson (05:21) Why? right? Ow. Gosh. Parker & Alex (05:50) Yeah, he he definitely went through the ringer with, ⁓ you know, coming in and out of the closet, I guess. Yeah. Just because, you know, you try to live a certain narrative. ⁓ I feel like just as a gay person in Utah being raised Mormon, ⁓ at least in our time, I feel like it might be a little more lenient now for some families anyways, but Brynne Erickson (05:51) ⁓ shoot. Parker & Alex (06:19) In our time, you know, we were just terrified of even approaching the topic. And I feel like for you. Unfortunately, you know, the first couple of times you came out, it was it was pushed. You were kind of forced into it either by like something that you felt. And it was just kind of like this is like, I have to like I don't really have an option right now. was more of pleasing others instead of figuring myself out and doing what's best for me. Yeah. Brynne Erickson (06:37) ⁓ shoot. Parker & Alex (06:49) as a very much a people pleaser then. Well, yeah, that but also just the situations that life brought you for sure were really hard and that forced you to do something that you didn't necessarily want to do slash maybe weren't ready for. Right. Correct. Whereas me, like when I came out, I came out very secure with myself and I came out at a time when I wanted to come out. So, you know, You kind of came out again when we got engaged basically, but ⁓ that was kind of it was a different situation, I think, for sure. Yeah, that was for me. So, yeah. Yeah. Different passive life there. Brynne Erickson (07:32) Sheesh, what a situation. And you mentioned kids might be having a different experience of coming out and having support these days. And you guys came out 10 years ago, or we were navigating this 10 years ago, at least, right? That's a long time. So you guys are kind of like pioneers almost. Parker & Alex (07:46) Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I mean, I guess I mean, that's a very like kind way of looking at it, right? And I appreciate that. I think that Alex and I as a couple, absolutely like in Utah kind of as as a as a unit, I think that 100 percent is the case that we are kind of pioneers in a way of like our culture or I guess you could call it forming our own. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, we've been Individually navigating this ever since we were when I had that book like yeah. Yeah, it's like like the the the nature of this and this being a part of our identity, which I know is kind of something we want to talk about today. Goes so far beyond just our relationship, right? And I think that it's these are the topics that are so important to talk about. So I love that you're Brynne Erickson (08:26) Hmm. Parker & Alex (08:53) doing this and I love that you brought us on because I think this is something that's important for people to know. And I don't even know if you remember this but when we're in junior high I mean we've known each other forever but this is one of my like experiences that I had and it wasn't because of you you were kind of tipping me off but we were I think you're in Spanish class and you just came up to me and just said all these people are talking about you they're saying you're gay and like making fun of you and laughing. Brynne Erickson (09:03) Yes. Hmm. Parker & Alex (09:22) And that was a huge turn in my life for the negative, not because of what you said, but because of what was being said by other people. And yeah, I don't even know if you remember that, but yeah, it was, it was crazy, but you were one of the few people who were always kind to me and were there for me. So I do appreciate that. Cause I don't know, even know if you remember, obviously you don't, but yeah. Brynne Erickson (09:26) Interesting. Interesting. I have no memory of that. I have zero recollection. Parker & Alex (09:51) But it started a spiral for me when all that stuff was happening. Brynne Erickson (09:55) Wow. That's so crazy. In junior high, so middle school for us. Interesting. ⁓ Parker & Alex (10:06) Did you take Spanish? Because I thought it was Spanish class, but yeah. Brynne Erickson (10:09) Yeah, yes, I took Spanish all through junior high and high school. So. Parker & Alex (10:13) Yeah. Yeah. So was in your Spanish class and that's when an eating disorder happened and I was even eating school lunch in the boys bathroom. It was just, it was a weird time of life. Brynne Erickson (10:20) So interesting. Okay. Didn't you and I eat lunch in the hallway at some point together? Parker & Alex (10:32) Yes, because we would bring our sack lunches. Yes. And we'd eat by the the locker locker rooms in the gym. Yeah. Yeah. Brynne Erickson (10:35) Yes. The vending machine. Yeah. I do remember that. Why did we do that? Were we not? I don't even remember why we did that. I know I was, I was working on my weight. That's why I was bringing at 14. I started my first diet and that's a whole nother thing. I never had an eating disorder, but that started dieting for me. And so I was eating my half of peanut butter and jelly sandwich with a cup of fruit and a Capri Sun. Parker & Alex (10:47) I just, you're. that's. Yeah, yeah. Brynne Erickson (11:04) every day. Parker & Alex (11:05) This is probably why we ate together because I just eat a roll. Brynne Erickson (11:08) my gosh, ow. our little brains and hearts. Parker & Alex (11:13) Hey, it's fine. It makes us who we are today. Brynne Erickson (11:17) It's true, there's a lot to be said for that, but that's crazy. Okay, so this would have been junior high for us. Okay, before we dive into identity, how would you define identity? Parker & Alex (11:33) you want to go first? I for me, think identity well identity is it's who you are and it's something that can't be changed. Like I'm a gay man for a long time. I wanted to change that because of pressure and all that stuff, but I had to learn to love it because that is my identity. Yeah, no, I agree with that. think there are to add on to that, like there are innate parts of us that comprise our identity, but the things that can change and be shift shifted, I think would more reflect values and reflect, ⁓ you know, learned behaviors, right? I think to agree with Alex, like our identity is really what makes us who we are. Like if we stripped all of the all of the ⁓ things that were nurtured to become right either by our parents or by our culture or by our society or friends or whatever all those outside influences in our life kind of shape you into who you are. But I think at your core your identity is not that like I don't think those things that are And maybe this is just because I know that I am. A gay man from birth, right? Maybe there might not be other people that have a strong of feelings in regards to it, but I think that my identity as a gay man and there's obviously other things that I identify myself as, but that piece of it is a big piece that makes up who I am as a person. Yeah. And everything else that isn't part of my identity. is learn behavior. Yep. And we can control how we use our identity or how we portray our identity according to the behaviors that we learn throughout life and kind of shift into who we become later on. So I think there's a big difference. And I know it might not be Webster Dictionary to say that, but I think there's two kind of sides to this. anyways. Brynne Erickson (13:44) Hmm. Okay, awesome. how, what would you say your identity is then? Parker & Alex (13:57) I mean, for me, like, I know that I am innately a very creative person. Like, I thrive off of a creative environment and nearly everything I do in my life and all the decisions I make are based on being quote unquote a type B person. And I think that Alex, on the other hand, very type A, very type A. He's very like by the books, very structured. Brynne Erickson (14:21) Ha ha! Parker & Alex (14:25) And I think those are innate qualities because not everybody's built the same. But those are some qualities, right, that identify you as a person. if you were to, if someone was to ask you, you know, who are you? What are you? I would be like, I'm a gay man. I'm a creative director because I'm a type B person and I do well in those type of environments. Like everything that makes up who I am. I would never say like the church created me into this person that I am today or like my parents morphed me into this person. Those are all outside things right that kind of influence who you are and the decisions you make but it's not your identity. Your identity is very different from that I think. Does that make sense? beautiful yeah. Brynne Erickson (15:20) Yeah, anything you want to add Al, how would you identify? Parker & Alex (15:22) I would just say with our relationship wise the type A type B situation is beautiful for us because we love the differences ⁓ of each other and I think that's important for a lot of people to learn with even people's identity is to embrace and love their differences. Because no matter how hard you push somebody to to take on a different you know personality. Yeah. In the end they're going to revert back to who they really are. and their identity if they if they become secure in that if they become you know okay with who they are as well. I even tried to like change who I was with correction therapy and just being what I thought what God wanted and I had to learn through lots of therapy to love who I am love my identity and so I just want people to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Brynne Erickson (16:20) love who you are. When I wonder how many people actually know who they are. And obviously in our culture, it's like you are a child of God and that is your main identity, right? But how many people stop and ask themselves, like, who am I? Parker & Alex (16:38) I think it's, I think you have to go through some hardship to, to realize that perspective. Cause a lot of people just go through the motions and just sail by sometimes. Not saying that people aren't going through hard things, but with even our, our religion that we grew up with Mormonism, we had to think hard. ⁓ Cause we had some hard experiences with it with, mean, like I had Brynne Erickson (16:49) Yeah. Parker & Alex (17:07) I had a cousin who was put on conversion therapy and a lot of people would not accept him and it got to the point where he took his own life and it's just, don't know. Yeah. I think the pressures of morphing your identity into someone that you may not innately be, you know, if that causes stress in a I should say distress, right? Like a bad type of stress or if that causes you to be depressed or push you to maybe do things that you normally would never do, right? Like I think there's deeply serious problems in the community that we grow up in, especially here in Utah and being Mormon. Like I knew I was gay ever since fifth grade when I had my first crush, right? Like Brynne Erickson (17:35) Yeah. Parker & Alex (18:01) I didn't understand exactly what the details were of that, right? But like, I had a feeling because I felt something when I was by this guy that I had a crush on, right? So like, I knew that I was different. I knew there was something going on there. And I think if I had come out earlier, I probably would have or I had been more open about those feelings earlier on before I was more secure with my identity. I think that I would have been pushed to, you know, try to change that or revert my identity into kind of the box sometimes that we were kind of put into as children in the church, right? So like, I think that if we're able to really look at some of those really key pivotal things that define us as to who we are, those are things that aren't bad, you know, like, like there is innately nothing wrong with your identity as a person. It's just the outside influences that whether to use those identity, you know, traits and turn you into a good or bad person based on the decisions you make. Right. So I think we just need to be nice to people and support. also think like through our experience of this hardship that we're talking about for my Brynne Erickson (19:20) Hmm. Yeah Parker & Alex (19:32) I think Parker feels the same way. We developed such a close relationship with God, which I never thought could possibly happen because of me being gay. And I look at him completely different than how I was raised and taught. And it's much more simple. It's much more loving. It's much more empathetic and compassion. And I know this is going to sound bad. I think he's a hippie. So. You ⁓ Brynne Erickson (20:02) I once heard Jesus referred to as a mover and a shaker. And I loved that because he truly was came to break down barriers and sit at the table with everybody. And everyone was like, no, no, no, we don't do that. Everyone stays in their station, in their place, has their assignments, has their roles in this society. And he was like, well, maybe so, but we can all still hang out together. Parker & Alex (20:12) For sure. Brynne Erickson (20:30) And I want to talk to all these people and I want to bless all these people. And so I love that you say, I'm kind of on board with you, Can we expound on that though? What was your relationship? How did you view God? And how did you believe they viewed you before? Parker & Alex (20:34) Yep, I love it. Thank you. I am on board with it. So. Yeah, so I won't I I'll go more into I thought God was just very by the rules like very black and white. There's no gray. I was taught that like if I wasn't doing certain things that I was basically not pleasing God and that he was looking down upon me because I was bullied really badly. I don't know if you remember any of it while we were going to junior high and stuff, but Brynne Erickson (21:22) I don't. Parker & Alex (21:22) even to the point of like doing fast offerings, even blessing the sacrament. I would try to just go hide because the people I was around were awful to me and they made me feel like I was less than and I was just still just trying to figure out my identity and who I was. And on top of that, they're just tell me how awful I was and I am not pleasing God and disappointing him by not doing fast offerings by not blessing the sacrament. by not going to mutual every week. ⁓ But on the other hand, like with that, I also had some positive, I would say my mom, who didn't believe in all that, didn't subscribe to that stuff. And she slowly helped me kind of get out of it, but I still had the pressure of just the whole church in itself. They even tried to give me callings to like force me to go. And it was just very uncomfortable for me. Brynne Erickson (22:21) Yeah. Well, and, shoot, I can't remember what I was going to say. Maybe it'll come back to me. But so how have you reframed that now? Parker & Alex (22:33) lots of therapy. And I think that it is more personal guidance and revelation, I guess you would say. ⁓ I don't think God cares as much about those things as they put out to be. I don't want to sound harsh or anything. ⁓ I think God wants you to live your best life. He wants you happy. Brynne Erickson (22:35) Yeah. Parker & Alex (23:03) He wants you secure and he wants you to live it to the fullest. And we're all here with trials and and whatnot, but we're supposed to overcome and and do our best. I just think that God does not calculate things to make you go to heaven. I think we're all given way different experiences, different identities. And so it's just you got to do your best. That's all I believe in. And it's just very, very easy going. Brynne Erickson (23:35) And your best is different than Joe's best, right? Parker & Alex (23:38) For sure. And we have different things, so we can't all just be put in the same box. Brynne Erickson (23:48) I talk about boxes a lot too. Like there's all, we just like putting people, the rules, structure, boxes from culture, society, religion, tradition, family, which is, it's nice, neat and tidy, right? And if everyone stays in their box, then there's. Parker & Alex (23:50) Yeah. And it gets overwhelming. Brynne Erickson (24:10) Yes, it does. In fact, I have an awesome piece of art that I love and it's this girl sitting on the edge of her box and she has flowers growing out of her. And it's beautiful and it's about breaking free from your box so that you can finally grow and see what you'll become. And so it's something we're all trying to accomplish, right? Parker & Alex (24:19) I love that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. See, and I like going back to like how I view God now and stuff. I just see so much compassion and empathy. remember talking to my therapist once and like through all the hardship I've been through, my mom has been there the entire time, but I see how much she loves me and I know God's love for everyone is so much stronger than what even my mom has loved for me. And so I just so much more free and loving and hippie ish. mean, it's just so easy. It really is. Brynne Erickson (25:14) How was your mom so supportive the entire way? Like what did she do or what was helpful that maybe would help listeners? Parker & Alex (25:21) She was very intuitive, like for one, like in church, she gave me her combination to her Ford Expedition so I could go hide in there because she knew that leaders and stuff were not being kind to me. ⁓ She told people I don't need to go to young men's every week. If I want to go, then I can go. ⁓ She was very intuitive in the fact of like me getting bullied. She had a sense of me being gay. But she wanted me to approach her about it. But she would even do like the soccer team was pretty bad to me. So like I would even have to go home and change into the soccer, soccer gear for like practice and even games. couldn't do it in the locker room because people would be pretty awful, but she'd always have food there for me when I got there. So I could hurry and eat. And even before games, she'd do pregame rituals with me. But she was just always there for me. made life busy for me in a way that I would like. So I didn't have to always have my mind on it. And then she just she went everywhere with me. That's who my my mom and my sister are my friends. So and that's the best thing I could have ever. Brynne Erickson (26:40) I think so. OK, Parker, your turn. So we talked about identity. I guess your source. Who do you credit to? What was your relationship like with them prior to? How did they view you? How did you view them? Parker & Alex (26:45) Remind me the question. ⁓ Like, ⁓ far as God goes and kind of my view on that. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, as far as maybe we would be to start on today, how I feel, just because I feel like it was such a process to get to this point is honestly like, and this is something I kind of still have a hard time saying is like, I don't really know. Brynne Erickson (27:10) Yeah, you're higher power. ⁓ Parker & Alex (27:33) Right? Like, I don't really know what's out there. I don't really know. I think I fall a bit more into the agnostic personality now just because I think that there are elements of Christianity that are really powerful and really enlightening. But I also think that going along kind of with what Alex said, you know, Jesus being a hippie, I think that There shouldn't be so many definitions on things. I think we as a society try way too hard to define so many things that we just have no idea. And I know people will say that they've prayed and they've figured out the truth and some believe that their truth should be others' truths, right? But I think in the end, the people that pray and believe in something, good for them. Like I will support them through and through right as long as it's not something evil and terrible right. I think we should go on because you just brought up some good points with an experience that we had there where we were put in the membership council with the Mormon Church and we had told the person who's in the council that we had prayed about us getting married and it felt right. It felt good. And he told us that that was not doctrine and we were not capable of feeling that way because we don't have. Brynne Erickson (28:55) interesting. Parker & Alex (28:55) the spirit to be with us. don't have, we're not worthy of what the Mormon church would define as a worthy individual to receive revelation. And, you know, that whole thing and that statement was, I mean, that statement, along with a few other things that were said at that, were really defining points in like me figuring out where I stand today with all of it. I think the source of Obviously, I think we came from somewhere. mean, in my brain, like, we didn't just poof and magically we're here. Like, I think there's something that we don't know about that, you know, exists beyond this world. And I'm excited to see what that is one day. I think as far as God goes and where, you know, that higher power may stand, I still say God just because that's the most familiar term to me, right? And that's kind of what we were raised to believe in was a... Brynne Erickson (29:30) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Parker & Alex (29:52) was all powerful God. But I think that really he or she or they or whatever they are. Right. ⁓ I think that. They just want us to be happy. And that was something that didn't have to have rules that didn't have to be defined because everybody's happiness is going to be different. You know, my happiness is going to be different than Alex's even. And there will be things that will be happy about together, obviously, because we're married and we should have great experiences together. But. What makes me happy as an individual beyond, you know, some of the deep and powerful things as far as religion goes is very different than what Alex gets happy from. Like we're different people. So I think that, you know, whatever we decide to do in our lives, if it's not making us happy, then it's just an opportunity to learn of something that did not make us happy. and pivot it to something that will hopefully make us happy and try again. So if that's our goal in life, like if you break down every decision we make into that, will it make me happy or will it not make me happy? Or will it make my family happy? I think if you bring your family happiness or if you bring those you love happiness, it's going to bring you happiness though as well. So even those type of decisions, if you boil them down to their very core, there is some kind of selfish Brynne Erickson (31:12) Mm-hmm. Hmm. Parker & Alex (31:32) And I mean that in a positive way. There's kind of this selfish fulfillment that we all look for in everything that we do. So if that's everyone's life goal, then that's God's life goal for us too. Like, I think there's no separation at all. I think that we can receive guidance from a higher power. I think that we can receive... You know, I've had spiritual experiences that I cannot deny, you know, with... Brynne Erickson (31:45) Yeah. Parker & Alex (32:00) Alex and me getting married and like myself making it through some really hard times in my life and relying on a higher power to just get any kind of help whatsoever. And I can't deny those experiences. I don't know if it came from God or a different higher power, whatever that is, right? I don't want to super label it or define it, but I think that... Brynne Erickson (32:19) Yeah. Parker & Alex (32:27) I spent too much of my life trying to push my identity out the window, even though there wasn't I wasn't out, obviously. But like you hear things right in church or you hear things from your neighbors or you hear things from your family almost inadvertently, right? Just because it's the society we live in. And it's like, ⁓ like, that's the expectation for me. Like if I want to be happy. Brynne Erickson (32:49) Yeah. Parker & Alex (32:55) I need to live up to these expectations of like what other people or what God wants me to do or you know what my church leaders want me to do and that was never happiness for me and I spent way too much of my life trying to do those things to find my happiness but it didn't so I had to pivot and make other decisions to find my happiness right that's what I was saying before so Brynne Erickson (32:56) Thank Parker & Alex (33:24) I don't know exactly what's out there, like I said, but long story short, boil it down. If I feel good when I'm making that decision or if something good came of that decision, then I think God's pleased. And I think that higher power would be happy with us. So that's kind of where I sit right now. Brynne Erickson (33:48) I love the scripture in the Book of Mormon that says men are that they might have joy. Parker & Alex (33:53) Yeah, I agree with that 100%. 100%. And that joy is going to... I think that's great. And I think that joy is going to shift and vary depending on the person. And I think, you know, if just subtle example, right? Like I don't want to attack anyone's belief, but like if me drinking coffee in the morning makes me happy and it helps me live a better life, right? Brynne Erickson (33:55) That was one of my companions favorite scriptures. Parker & Alex (34:21) Even though I was taught my entire life that I shouldn't be drinking coffee like I'm going to drink coffee because it's a good thing for me and it makes me feel like I can take on the day and you know get things done better in the morning because that little kick of caffeine is good and it tastes good and it brings me joy right so like I'm gonna do it so like I think that is to say that really that joy is just dependent on the person that's Brynne Erickson (34:41) Mm-hmm. Parker & Alex (34:50) trying to figure out their life, right? So I think it's hard to define the rules of life. They shouldn't be defined like that. It's very individualized. Yeah. Brynne Erickson (35:02) I like the idea of the collective trying to bring happiness into my own world while also striving to help you find your happiness. I thought that was really beautifully said. Parker & Alex (35:15) Thanks. Yeah, no, I think that's that helping other people brings so much joy to anyone's life when you truly feel like you've made an impact, a positive impact in somebody else's life, you know, whether it be through an actual like physical decision or it just be being a good friend or providing, you know, some good advice or whatever. And you really know that that impacted them and helped them. Like, of course that's going to help you live a better life. Of course that's going to help them. It's just this this coexisting of goodness, right? And that's what I mean by like the selfishness of it, right? Like, it's not a bad thing. It's just it's a natural result of putting yourself out there and being kind and helping somebody or providing something for somebody else. So You're going to it would be weird if you didn't feel good, right? Like it would be weird if like you're trying to not live this selfish life and you go help somebody and like, my gosh, thank you. Like, I'm so grateful for that, that you did that. And you're just completely neutral about it. Like you just like that would be super weird. So I think there's just there should be this feeling of like enjoyment from what you do. And if that's helping other people to as a part of that, like Brynne Erickson (36:30) It would be interesting, it? Parker & Alex (36:42) more power to you, more power to them. I think that's great. Brynne Erickson (36:46) Awesome. Thank you. Anything you guys want to add before we move on to how your family is shifting? Parker & Alex (36:56) think we did pretty good. Brynne Erickson (36:59) I think you did stellar. You're awesome. Okay, so tell us your big news. Parker & Alex (37:00) Awesome. Thank you. Yeah, we're having a baby in September. We're having a boy. Yeah, we're excited. Yep. We have one coming on the way. Tried for two, but only one took. Yeah, only one took. And ⁓ we're hoping to have another one. No more than two, hopefully. We're aiming for two. You never know. You never know. hoping for two. So grandmas are hoping for more. Yeah, the grandmas want more. I'm not ready. No. Brynne Erickson (37:09) Yay! Okay. Okay. You don't. Yeah. ⁓ Parker & Alex (37:36) So we'll see. Brynne Erickson (37:39) I know my brother, my cute brother, Craig and Parker, you know, Craig and, ⁓ when he came out, he told me about a friend of his who, when he told his parents, he was gay. His mom said, that's fine, honey, but I expect grandchildren. Parker & Alex (37:54) That's that's kind of what my mom ended up being in the end too, honestly, she loves babies So she so much. Yeah, so she wants all of us to have kids and I never thought I was going to I really for the longest time he was Dead set on not having them. Yeah Yeah Yeah boy, I mean that's open a can of worms. I think I was so Brynne Erickson (38:08) Okay. Interesting. Why is that? May I ask? Parker & Alex (38:24) dead set on number one never acting upon, you know, being in a real relationship with a man. I never thought that I never even considered having kids, I guess. Like, I barely thought that I'd be dating honestly because of what I was feeling. kids scared me like because of that, because I was so insecure with the idea. Brynne Erickson (38:43) Yeah. Parker & Alex (38:53) of myself and I was so insecure with the idea of being with another guy and I just had no direction. Like I had no goalpost of like where I'd end up and I that was like the biggest reason why I didn't want kids I think was I was completely emotionally and spiritually unprepared for the idea of it. Yeah. ⁓ Brynne Erickson (39:21) So who brought it up then? Parker & Alex (39:24) I definitely brought it up a lot. then we basically just said, like, if an opportunity comes to where it was thrown right in front of us, we'd do it. And it happened. We did look into like adoption before, but, you know, it's it's just as costly as the route we went. I Alex and I had a lot of hard conversations, honestly, about this topic, because even when we got married, like I told Alex, I don't want kids. Like I didn't want kids at that time and this was five years ago. I was I was OK with it because I was just happy to be in have such a good person. I was married to an amazing man and that's like I can be grateful for that. Kids are bonuses and so. Luckily we're we're at where we're at now. Brynne Erickson (40:15) So how are you having this baby then? Parker & Alex (40:19) Yeah, so we have a gestational carrier who lives in Boise. So we had embryos made. She's just the carrier. She has no genetic tie to the child. But ⁓ so we made embryos with this, the egg donor. And then we did a transfer. Few months ago, and then that one took so. Yeah, it's a process. We miscarried our first attempt. we actually we had a baby. was a girl that time and she didn't have signs of any miscarriage. And we went into the ultrasound and they said there's no baby, no heartbeat. That was a different kind of heart. I had never experienced that type of heartbreak ever in my entire life. And I think neither of us were expecting it. Now, like nobody was expecting it to be that way. Brynne Erickson (41:05) Yeah. Parker & Alex (41:16) ⁓ But man, like that breaks you. Like I feel so hard for anybody that's had to deal with the emotional, especially women, obviously, because we're never going to experience the physical pieces of that, obviously. And the emotional tolls that adds as well to the physical. yeah, like just the emotional side of that was awful. Brynne Erickson (41:36) Yeah. Yeah. Parker & Alex (41:45) Like I just can't. I mean, it wasn't even like there was even with the miscarriage, like there was no actual fetus, like there was no baby in the pregnancy. But even then it was just so hard. Like it felt like there was, you know. Yeah. So we had a long car ride back home from Boise. So that was really tough. Brynne Erickson (42:02) Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. That would be tough. Parker & Alex (42:15) Yeah. But now we have a baby and yes, an amazing carrier. She's we've we couldn't have asked for someone better. We've become really good friends with her and her fiance. And it's it's been it's been a really good experience. Yeah. Brynne Erickson (42:34) That's so awesome. I'm just so excited for you guys to be dads. It's gonna be amazing. Are you... Good. Are you nervous? Like what do you... I'm sure you're nervous. What do you know most nervous about? Parker & Alex (42:39) There we go. Yeah, we're excited. We're, ⁓ well right now just get everything in order. I mean, we're new to this obviously, and even like we have baby showers coming up. We don't even know what to register for. So luckily like we've have, ⁓ family members who've had babies and we've had a sister in law who had a baby recently. So she is helping us a lot with like up to date things on what to get and It's, it's been a process, but we're, we're heading out of town this week and we're doing our registry. So hopefully it works out. So yes. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Brynne Erickson (43:25) It will work out. There's Amazon, there's Target, there's Walmart. You're going to be just fine. It's going to be awesome. Are there, well, let's answer this question first. So when it comes to the views that people have on a traditional family structure, mother, father, and children, what thoughts do you have that might be helpful for? those people that view your situation, they're like, I don't know how to make sense of this. What can you offer? Parker & Alex (44:00) Yeah, mean, so I guess my main questions would be for those people, just because I can understand, you know, having been raised by a traditional like father and mother family and, you know, having brothers and sisters and stuff, I can understand kind of where the confusion may come from. ⁓ But my like questions would go beyond. Brynne Erickson (44:17) Mm-hmm. Parker & Alex (44:29) that in the sense of why like why would they feel that way? I guess like what what piece of a traditional family aside from unless the core issue is just a father and a mother right like what other parts of a traditional family do you feel is impacted by not having a father and a mother. Does that make sense? Like I don't I think it's hard to define. Well, again, it's social norms and so that dictates a lot of what people believe in. But we were talking about this a little earlier and, know, for a gay couple, I mean, for straight people, they can have accidents and be pregnant and whatnot. This is a thought process. It is. I mean, it's it's taken us to work two years almost in the process of being trying to have kids. And it's something that we desire that we really want that we've had to put the time, the money, lots of money into it. So I think with that, too, like we I know there's and we both know plenty of people that have done IVF and women that have had a hard time having children and evil. A lot have talked to us personally about this because we're going through obviously not the physical parts ourselves, but we know the person that is and we're a big piece of it. So I feel like those are the types of people that kind of relate really easily to us because they know that we understand the process of having a very, very planned out pregnancy like this. And I think that... Brynne Erickson (46:06) Yeah. Parker & Alex (46:26) If you understand a little bit of that, like some families, some traditional families, you know, especially in the Mormon church will have, you know, five to 10 kids in the span of 10 years, right? Like that's very, very normal in our society. And they may have, you know, problems with the pregnancy or whatever, but they're able to get pregnant and they're able to have the children in the end. And it all turns out great for that situation, right? I think I don't want to discredit the struggles that come with, you know, having kids like that. But I think when you don't have the struggle of trying to get pregnant, obviously, neither of us can get pregnant. So it's like we had to really think about it like we had to really, really, really spend our time. You know, figuring out the money, figuring out the legal in a conservative state where most of the adoption and Brynne Erickson (47:11) Yeah. Parker & Alex (47:24) you know, all of the, you know, fertility clinics, there's a lot of Mormon employees that would innately, you know, by their religion anyways, maybe not by their personal belief, but by their religions, you know, what is taught would be against us having kids. So, you know, I feel like Brynne Erickson (47:44) Mm-hmm. Parker & Alex (47:50) Alex and I are not better. We're not better people. And and if someone disagrees with us as a marriage or having kids or, ⁓ you know, even even from the general church point of view where they've said that, know, we're not going to be able to receive the greatest blessings because we're a gay couple, right? ⁓ We don't hold any resentment towards those people. We don't. include them as a part of. mean, from even our marriage, we've had people disassociate themselves with us, people we even had at our wedding. ⁓ And, you know, it's it's a them problem, not us problem. ⁓ And it's something that we can't take personal because they have to evolve and have a little come into Jesus themselves. I think that's my opinion. But back to like the topic of a kid. I don't know if people understand the amount of sensitivity and love game men have. ⁓ And I think as long as a child just has that love and to be taken care of, think that's just all that they need. ⁓ I know there's a huge, mean, I had an amazing mom. have an amazing mom. I understand like a motherly figure and that close bond that you have. And luckily for us we have a lot of female people around us who will be involved in our child's life like neighbors friends family that will be involved in his life. And if he does need more of a female figure he has that. Yeah. And so it's not like he's going to be neglected of that option either. Yeah. And I think a lot of what people believe makes a traditional marriage wonderful. I'm not saying they're not wonderful, obviously, but what makes it wonderful is there's social norms, right, that males and females can fall into to teach children to support them. And they're not necessarily bad behaviors, right? But I think, once again, labeling it as something masculine or feminine is a detriment. to society as a whole. I think that Alex and I have a wonderful amount of love and nurturing side that would be considered maybe a more feminine trait that we want to bring to this relationship with our child. So I think that there's too much looking at life and saying, you know, you do this, you do this, you do this. because you're a man or because you're a woman or because of your race or because of XYZ, right? Like there's a million different ways to to stereotype people. And I think people that maybe have an innate issue with the idea of a non-traditional family having a child needs to maybe look a little deeper into why they think that way. Like, what are the social norms or values that you believe in? Brynne Erickson (50:42) your roles. Parker & Alex (51:11) or that you've seen or maybe you haven't thought super deep about as to why you feel a traditional marriage is the best way to have a child. I'm not saying it's not, but I'm also saying I'm not saying it is either like like I think Alex and I were fully capable of. Bringing happiness to our child's life, if you just saw how it is with our dogs, you would everyone would understand. Yeah, I know. Brynne Erickson (51:26) Mm-hmm. Yeah. I've been watching you love on that fur baby this whole time Parker & Alex (51:41) Yeah, he's been barking in his little bit. I see some random thing in the room that he's barking at. Parker is the most nurturing human I have met and that little boy is going to be so loved and that's all that's all he needs. Yeah. So I think you need to be more concerned about not the not the identity of a person, but the personality of the couple or the people involved in raising that child. Like that's something that's more concerning to me than their identity as like a gay person or LGBTQ. people who have the opinion don't even give the time or day of getting to know, say, the couple who's having the child. Yeah, because they might they might have an issue, right? That's that's preventing them from wanting to. Yeah. But I think that deep down, those aren't bad people, they're just not educated in the sense of being able to have that empathy or that sympathy for somebody else to listen to who they actually are. Right. So so that's why I think my questions, if somebody had an issue with that, with us being, you know, a gay couple having a child would be more along the lines of not me judging immediately and jumping straight to the conclusion that it's a man and woman thing or whatever, but more so. You know, what what are you actually concerned about? Like what piece of Alex is in my relationship? Do you feel we could not bring to a child's life just because we're a gay couple? And and that would be my question from a sense of trying to understand their perspective. And I feel like that question would only be asked to Alex and I, or that concern would only be brought to Alex and I if the people didn't genuinely know who we were as people. Because I really feel like we're in a very solid position to raise a child right now. Yeah. So. Brynne Erickson (53:55) And even like, what is a solid position to bring a child into the world? Parker & Alex (54:00) I mean, yeah, like, it's going to be different for everybody, right? Like. Brynne Erickson (54:02) I, right, like you don't, I don't know that there's one right answer because we're all such different people. Parker & Alex (54:07) Yeah, there isn't. Yeah, I mean, my sister, I love her to death. My oldest sister, she got married at 18 and which is she's the best insanely young, right? Like even for Mormon culture, 18 is pretty, pretty young. And, you know, she didn't have kids until like five years after that or something like that. But I think that. people looked at that situation and were just like, it's not going to work. Like, because she's so young and there's just so many factors of her, you know, she straight out of high school got married and and didn't, you know, go to school or didn't like do those things that maybe a lot of people consider to be normal, right? Or the right way to do life. And she has the best family and kids ever. Like she is so strong. and her marriage is great and her kids are amazing and like I feel like people are so quick to look at a situation and just say, ⁓ it's not going to work. And I think for Alex and I, the right time to have kids was when we wanted to actually have for me anyways, when I wanted to actually pursue having kids and it has nothing to do with money. has nothing to do with, you know, a lot of those things that, know, maybe could define what a good situation is for a child, right? Because there's plenty of families like my sister. She made her marriage work and she got married at 18 and she had, you know, my my mom had her my first two siblings, her, my sister and my brother when she was like 21, like It was hard for her, no doubt, but it was the right time for her to have kids. I just, I think that Alex and I are more prepared probably than most early 20 year olds to have children for a lot of reasons. I feel like we've matured a lot over the last 10 years in every way. So I don't know. Sorry, I feel like I'm rambling a little bit, but... Brynne Erickson (56:36) And I don't, you're good. No, and I don't even know that it feels, it's a readiness thing. Like how many awesome people had babies when they weren't ready or they weren't stable. They were actually very unstable and yet they have turned into amazing, beautiful families. I think it kind of circles back to that boxes mentality and rules that we put on. so many situations and this scenario would be found like what the perfect stable family looks like and every person's rules for what that looks like is based upon the rules that they make for themselves or that they wish they themselves could achieve and so that's the lens in which they view the world by right and so I just like to pose the question is there actually such a thing as Parker & Alex (57:27) Yes. Brynne Erickson (57:35) the right kind of family to raise a child. And you don't have to answer that. That's kind of more for the people listening. But if you have any thoughts you'd like to expand on that, feel free. Parker & Alex (57:45) I just what I said, I just think love loves the answer. So for me, but. Yeah. Brynne Erickson (57:50) Love is hard. It can be so hard and yet seems so simple. And I stand by that one 100 % too. It's very cliche. All you need is love, but it's work worth doing. Parker & Alex (58:05) I just think things need to be simplified like I've said throughout this, but it's so simple and people complicate things so much. And I complicate things. ⁓ I do that. I just think simplicity is beautiful. Yeah, I think that there's a big piece of life that is missed out on because people stress out too much over nitty gritty details that really obviously would probably make a difference in their life, right? Like if you're making more money, you're going to be able to do different things with that money, or whatever the factor may be, right? But I think in the end, like it really does boil down to that is Brynne Erickson (58:26) helpful. Parker & Alex (58:55) love and joy. Like, you're going to make decisions based on what's making you happy. And as long as you're loving and caring and kind with those decisions, you're doing everything you should be doing. And I think that if it boils down to you're making those decisions and you have a child, you know, in that period of life where you're able to have both of those factors in your own personal life, like you're ready, like you're ready to have a kid. You're ready to be able to spread that joy to them and you're ready to teach them how to do those things and help them. And I just think that. Honestly, like it wasn't until the last couple of years that I finally, for me personally, came to that point where I was more at peace with my life and I was happy and. I knew that Alex and I were headed in the right direction. And that was when I felt good about having a kid. So it kind of all plays into this moving train, right? And all the we're all on the tracks now, right? Like there's no, I know there's bumps in the road or whatever, but the train is not like missing rails. I feel like at this point, like I feel like we have all the parts in the right place so we won't fly off the track. hopefully, right? Yeah. Yeah. And that is what life is about. Yeah. Yeah. Brynne Erickson (1:00:24) And you may fly off, but you'll fix it up and get back on track and it's gonna be great. It is. Totally is. You guys are so awesome. Thank you so much for all of your insight and perspective. That's what we're here for. Anything you want to leave us with before we go? Parker & Alex (1:00:48) I was just grateful that you had us on here. ⁓ We appreciate a lot. You've been I mean, I've known you basically my whole life, so it means a lot to me. So. Yeah. I think I'm just happy that, yeah, we got to talk about it and. I think my final piece would be just let people live their lives and enjoy it. Live and let live. Yeah, that's the biggest thing. There's no need to be critical. Brynne Erickson (1:00:56) basically. Hey, awesome. Parker & Alex (1:01:18) It's not enjoyable. It's not fun to be critical and it's not fun to be criticized. Like allow people to make decisions even if you don't agree with it necessarily. So. Brynne Erickson (1:01:28) Let them. All right. Thanks, you guys. Have a great night. Parker & Alex (1:01:32) Thank you. Thank you.