Latest / Pod Save America / Why Is the DNC Hiding Its Own 2024 Autopsy?

Transcript

Why Is the DNC Hiding Its Own 2024 Autopsy? · Pod Save America

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is brought to you by SimpliSafe. Between
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: the news cycle and the chaos of everyday life, your
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: brain already has too many tabs open. Having a system
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: that lets you check the arm status from your phone
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: means you're not lying awake at 2 a.m. wondering if
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: that thump downstairs was the cat or something worse. SimpliSafe
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: is more than just a camera. It's a comprehensive ecosystem
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: of sensors, cameras for inside and out, and 24-7 professional monitoring.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: In the event of a break-in, flood, or fire, SimpliSafe's
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: agents are ready to take action. With SimpliSafe, you can
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: easily customize a system that's right for your home at simplisafe.com
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: and ships to your door in a few days. With
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: app-guided setup and no drilling required, you can install and
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: arm your system in under an hour. No need to
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: wait around for a technician appointment. There are no long-term
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: contracts or hidden cancellation fees. SimpliSafe earns your business by
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: keeping you safe, not by trapping you in a contract.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Get 24-7 monitoring for a fraction of what the traditional
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: brands charge. Listen, we've all lived in places without security systems,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: and we know that that noise downstairs is a little scarier.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: That thump outside is a little more freaky. The floodlight
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: going on, you don't like that. It really gives you
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: some peace of mind to know that you have a
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: SimpliSafe system, that you can check it from your phone,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: that you have cameras inside and out, that there's sensors,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: there's 24-7 monitoring.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: That's why we highly recommend it.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: We've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer an exclusive discount to
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: our listeners. Right now, you can get 50% off your
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: new system by visiting simplisafe.com slash crooked. That's half off
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: at simplisafe.com slash crooked. There's no safe like SimpliSafe.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. So yesterday
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: I interviewed Ken Martin, the DNC chair, and for scheduling reasons,
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: we had originally planned on just keeping it on our
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: YouTube channel. But because the interview turned out to be
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: much spicier than we had anticipated, we're dropping it here
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: for all of you. Just to set up what happened,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Ken reached out last week asking if he could have
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: a chance to respond to criticism coming from some of
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: us here at Crooked about the DNC's finances and after
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: it was reported that the Democratic National Committee ended March
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: with $ 13. 9 million in cash, $ 18. 3 million in debt for
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: a total of negative $ 4.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: 4 million.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: The RNC, by contrast, has $ 116. 7 million in cash with
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: no debt. Ken had also mentioned our past criticism of
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: his decision not to release the full 200-page report that
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: the DNC had conducted on what went wrong in the
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: 2024 election, which he had promised to do when he
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: ran for DNC chair, and again when he sat down
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: with me last August. We, of course, said, sure, we'd
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: love to have him on and hash it out, so
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: we did. And I'll just say, the reason I spent
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: so much time asking him about the report, also known
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: as the 2024 autopsy, is not because I want to
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: relitigate every miserable detail of that election. or figure out
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: who to blame, it's because of this. Ken and the
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: DNC supposedly commissioned a massive project where they interviewed party leaders, strategists, organizers,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: activists in all 50 states about the 2024 election. What
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: went wrong, what went right, what they learned from voters,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: what they learned from the reams of data they had
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: access to, what they learned about how to make sure
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: we win next time. They supposedly did this for almost
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: a year. They supposedly wrote up a 200 and some
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: odd page report. And then Ken Martin announced in December
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: that actually DNC leadership wasn't going to let anyone see
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: what they found. And they were instead going to tell
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: the rest of us the lessons that they, DNC leadership,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: took from the report. Because, well, that's what I wanted
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: to find out. Now, Democrats have massively overperformed in nearly
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: every special and off-year election we've had since 2024. We
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: have covered that extensively on the show. Thanks to Donald
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Trump's popularity, the party is in an excellent position to
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: not just take back the House in the November midterms,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: but maybe even the Senate. But as we learned in
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: 2018 and 2022, midterm elections and special elections and off-year
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: elections are just very different from presidential elections. Different voters,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: different turnout, different stakes. 2028 will be much harder, just
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: like 2024 was harder than 2022, just like 2020 was
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: harder than 2018, and so on and so forth. The
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Democratic Party's popularity is still at record lows. And the
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: idea that we shouldn't have access to a full report
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: about what went wrong last time, based on interviews with
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: some of the very same people who will be responsible
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: for winning next time, is absolutely bonkers to me. That
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: autopsy isn't the most important thing, but it could have
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: at least formed the basis for the open, honest, and yes,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: messy debate we absolutely need to have about how to
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: win in 2028. Not just a few of us, not
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: just Ken Martin and the DNC leadership, not just the
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: party insiders who think they know better than the rest
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: of us rubes, all of us who not only want
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: to win, but we'll have to live with the consequences
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: of what happens if we lose. We should all get
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: a say too. So that's what I tried to ask
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Ken about. And you guys can judge his answers for yourselves.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Here's Ken Martin. Ken Martin, thanks for doing this.
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having me back on, John. It was
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: great to see you the other night at the Grindr
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: party of all parties.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: It was amazing.
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: I wish they hadn't run out of alcohol by the
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: time I arrived, but that's neither here nor there. Quick
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: bit of context for listeners. This all came about because
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: you expressed some frustration about criticism of the DNC coming
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: from our direction. So I appreciate you coming on to
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: talk about it directly. So I'll just say up front,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: we share the goal of making sure Democrats win everywhere,
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: especially the White House in 2028. I also very much
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: understand you've got one of the hardest jobs in politics
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: that you took at an especially tough time for the party.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: But I do want to press you on some specific
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: things because I think the stakes are too high not to.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Does that sound fair?
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: Sounds great, John.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: Appreciate it.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: So I want to start with the 2024 autopsy, which
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: you call an after action review. When you won the
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: chairmanship in February of twenty five. You criticized the DNC's
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: refusal to release their 2016 autopsy as exactly what not
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: to do. You said, quote, was there any utility in
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: doing that? And then promised your 2024 autopsy would be different.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Your exact quote was, of course, it will be released.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Why did you change your mind on that?
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: Well, look, I mean, what I said all along, even
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: when I ran for this position, is that we were
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: going to focus on the things that will help us
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: win the upcoming election, right? Making sure that we learn
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: the right lessons that could help inform our victories.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: And That's what we've done.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: We said this when we sent out the press release
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: back in November saying we weren't going to release the report.
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: We were going to actually keep our focus on those lessons.
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: And we released those lessons. We continue to do that.
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: And it's important for me, instead of navel gazing and
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: looking backwards and trying to relitigate 2024. I don't know
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: about you, John, but I don't have a time machine.
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: I don't think you do.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: No one does.
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: So we can't change what happened in 24. The only
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: thing we can do is actually change what happens in
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: the future, including the 26 election cycle, 28 and beyond.
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: That means we do need to learn the lessons. We
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: need to make sure they help inform our decisions that
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: we're making. And we've been releasing those. We released them
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: just a couple months ago in our playbook, which if
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: you want to look at that, go to dnc.org backslash playbook,
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: and you can get an example of some of the lessons.
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: We've been releasing them with our donors and with activists
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: and party leaders. We've been talking about what those lessons are,
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: and we've actually been putting those lessons into action. And
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: so it's not completely accurate to say that we didn't
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: release that. Where we're keeping our focus is on the
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: lessons that can actually help us win.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: But on this show in August, you told me this
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: about releasing the review, quote, we have to do it
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: to give people who invested so much time, energy and
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: money a sense of what happened and why we lost. Correct.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Especially why we lost. So what changed between August and December?
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I understand there are lessons, but those are not the
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: full report. Why not release the full report? What's in
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: the report that you wouldn't want to publicize?
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no smoking gun in the report.
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: And I know that's what everyone's so eager to learn.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: The smoking gun. Guess what, John?
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: But if there's no smoking gun, why wouldn't you just
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: release it then?
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: Because we want to keep the focus on the lessons.
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: Because what ends up happening here is that people, of course,
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: want to weaponize the report in a way to look backwards,
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: to point fingers, place blame in a way that actually
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: doesn't keep us focused on the upcoming election. But instead,
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: the navel-gazing of focusing backwards actually takes us backwards. We're
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: 189 days from this election, John. What we don't need
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: to be focused on is actually relitigating 2024. What we
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: need to do is learn the lessons of 24 and
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: the years preceding that can help us win this upcoming election.
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: That's why we've been releasing them. That's why we've been
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: focused in on actually putting those lessons into action. And
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: there's nothing that I told you in August that is inaccurate.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: We've been sharing those lessons out with donors. We've been
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: talking about this with party leaders and activists and others
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: and organizations and campaigns. It's no surprise to, and I
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: get it. I get why people are obsessed with it
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: because there's various groups and organizations and people who think
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: there's some sort of smoking gun in there.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: Guess what, Sean?
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: In the third closest presidential election in the last hundred years,
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: everything mattered.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: There's nothing that can impact that election.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: But why did why did you spend the money going to.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: 50 states doing all these interviews, doing all this stuff,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: and doing this report in the first place, if you
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: weren't going to release the full results of it? I
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: don't get why just you and some of the senior
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: DNC people get to see it, but not most of
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: the DNC members who are... You know, state party chairs.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, more than a dozen DNC members
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: told NBC just the other week they want to release,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: including Congresswoman Delia Ramirez and North and North Carolina Democratic
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Party Chair Anderson Clayton. And Anderson said, quote, genuinely, what
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: did you all find that we did not? How did
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: you answer that question?
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: What we've found is the things we've been telling them,
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: both Anderson, Delia, other folks who have concerns about it,
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: we've shared all of the lessons with them, right? And
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: so again, I think, John, the reality is you're proving
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: my point here, right? People are obsessed about this in
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: a way that continues to turn them away from wanting
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: to focus on the lessons and instead thinking that there's
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: some sort of smoking gun in here that's going to
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: give them the one single reason that Kamala Harris lost
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: the election or the one single thing that we should
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: have done differently that's going to actually help us win
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: in the future. There is no one single thing that
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: cost Kamala the election. There is no one single thing
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: that we can do to help us win the upcoming election.
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: There's a number of lessons for sure that will help
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: us win in 26 and beyond. But again, I understand
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: what you're saying, John. We'll just have to agree to
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: disagree on this because we have already started to put
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: those lessons into action. I'm proud of the results of
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: What we've seen over the last year and a half
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: since I've been elected, we have significant wind at our back,
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: and we're going to continue to move forward. And we're
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: going to continue to put those lessons we've learned into action,
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: and I hope others will start to do the same.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out, because it certainly
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: doesn't seem like anyone's looking for one single silver bullet,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: because it's a 200-page report. So I feel like in
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: a 200-page report, there's a lot of lessons for everyone
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: to take. And if you're going to operationalize it, then
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: I think the question is, like, are you operationalizing it
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: on behalf of people who didn't actually get to see
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: the report? So, like, do they know what they're agreeing
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: to when they operationalize lessons from the report if they
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: haven't been able to read the report?
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: John, you're proving the point.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: What's the point?
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: The point is the obsession on the report without actually
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: focusing in on the lessons. People believe there's something, there's
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: some sort of magic silver bullet in there that's going
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: to solve all of our ills at the Democratic Party.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: There's not.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: And I understand.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: I don't think I don't think there's going to be
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: a magic silver bullet, though. Who thinks that? No one
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: thinks it's good. That's such a no one thinks there's
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: a magic silver bullet. It's a 200 page report. You
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: interview people in 50 states. You spend a lot of
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: donor money on it. I think people are probably wondering
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: like on it. We don't spend a lot of donor
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: money on that. And that's just inaccurate. You spent a
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: couple hundred thousand dollars on it, right? No, we did not.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: It was a free report.
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: We did not spend a couple hundred thousand dollars on that.
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: The person and people who are involved in it were
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: not paid.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: To do this work.
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: And so I will just say that's, that's inaccurate, John.
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: So I appreciate, I'm not sure where you would even
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: get that number.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: And so did you.
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: Have some, some sort of record that shows we spent
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: any money on that?
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: I've seen, I've seen reporting that you, that you did
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: spend money on it. Yeah, for sure.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Okay. Well, that's, that's inaccurate.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: The person who has to do this is an unpaid
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: advisor to the DNC. And so I appreciate, listen, I
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: appreciate where it's coming from, John, but let's just trade
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: in facts on this, right? The reality is, is we
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: did talk to, you know, hundreds of people It was
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: an exhaustive exercise to really get at what are those
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: key lessons. And I want to be very clear, there's
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: nothing that changed from what I said on the campaign
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: trail to now.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: When you were on the campaign trail and you talked
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: about definitely releasing an autopsy and criticized the DNC for
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: not releasing an autopsy in 2016, in your mind you thought,
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do one but only release certain lessons
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: and not the full report?
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: No, what I said at the time is exactly what
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: I've been saying now, which is we have to focus
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: on the things that help us win the future elections.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: We have to focus on those lessons. We have to
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: do this exercise, by the way, of conducting this analysis
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: so that we actually learn what happened, not just in 24,
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: but in the years preceding that, John.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: And so that's where our focus is.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, the challenge is, you know, think
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: about this as an executive summary of, you know, like
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: you said, a 200-page document. And I think what we've
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: put together and what we learn, we are sharing with people.
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: So they have full insight into what we actually need
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: to course correct on as we go into these final
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: 189 days left and into the future.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: So, again, are you going to release you mentioned executive summary?
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Are you going to release an official executive summary? Make
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: it make that public.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: We've been releasing that, John. That's what I've been saying
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: to you.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Well, you said you said there's the Democratic playbook, the
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: playbook that you said you can sign up for in
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: DNC for sure. But I know that, you know, NBC
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: News said that before Easter about a month ago, you
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: told DNC officers on a call to expect an executive
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: summary in short order. Offer says on that call told
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: NBC they still haven't received one. You told a North
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Carolina DNC member who was drafting a resolution to force
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: the report's release that a summary was forthcoming, and he
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: backed off based on that promise. So you've been saying
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: in coming weeks on the executive, when can people expect
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: an executive summary?
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: We've already been sharing that with a number of folks,
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: and we'll continue to share it with folks, including the
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: DNC and other people. The reality is we're not hiding
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: the ball on this. We have been sharing those things out.
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: Happy to get you over what we have been sharing out, John.
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: The reality is that there's no smoking gun here. And
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: as much as people would like to keep focusing in
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: on those pieces, what they're ignoring is that we're sharing
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: out the lessons. We have been incorporating those, and we
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: have actually been putting those lessons into action, which I'm
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: most proud of. Look, we're we're 189 days away from
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: this election. You said on the top end of this
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: that you what you care most about is helping us
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: to win elections. OK, let's focus on the elections coming up, John.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean, I want to I want to
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: focus on winning them. I feel like an autopsy on
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: what went wrong. And when we lost the popular vote
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: in all those states in 2024 and figuring out what
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: went wrong based on a big report is pretty important
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: for everyone to know.
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: I've spent my entire career, John, as you know, since 1990,
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: winning elections up and down the ballot, both in Minnesota
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: and across the country.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that.
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: And I'm happy to talk to you about winning elections.
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: If you want to actually talk about elections, I'm happy
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: to talk to.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: You about those.
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: But again, you're proving the point that I think many folks,
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: I think, are frustrated in this party. which is people
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: want to turn backwards to relitigate the 2024 election, to
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: point fingers, to place blame, to- I.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Think you want to learn lessons, like you said.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: Well, listen, to win.
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: Elections, if they want to win elections, I'm happy to
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: share what we learn in the way of the lessons
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: on why we lost the 2024 election and the years
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: preceding that.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: Happy to share those. We're sharing those out with everyone.
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: But again, this conversation doesn't help us actually win elections.
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: All it does is continue to turn people inward. What
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: we need to do is focus on the work we
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: need to do in 189 days. Learn the lessons. And
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: I'm happy to go over what those lessons are. I'm
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: happy to go over them with anyone who wants to
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: talk about them, John. But what I'm not going to
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: do is release a report that turns everyone backwards trying
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: to either point fingers or place blame and actually ignore
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: their own responsibility.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: In helping us to fix the situation.
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: The reality is, is, you know, we all have a responsibility, yourself, myself, everyone,
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: in actually learning those lessons, focusing on the upcoming election,
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: putting them into action so we don't repeat those same mistakes.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: That's what we've been focused on, John.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Pod Save America is brought to you by ZBiotics Pre-Alcohol.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: You know how we feel about ZBiotics at this point.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: I think I need to stock up again. I feel
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: like there's a lot of events coming up. There's a
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: code at the end of this copy.
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: And because I can't, I can't skip ZBiotics anymore because
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: I did a couple nights ago and it was just tough.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: It's not worth it. I just feel terrible.
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Z-Biotics pre-alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: for rough days after drinking. Pre-alcohol produces an enzyme to
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: break this byproduct down. Just remember to make pre-alcohol your
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: your best tomorrow. From the start of baseball season and
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: music festival circuits, April is a sprint of outdoor celebrations.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: We're running. Don't let a rough next day keep you
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: on the sidelines. Drink pre-alcohol to stay ahead of the
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: game and make the most of every sunny Saturday. Go
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: to zbiotics.com slash crooked to learn more and get 15%
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: off your first order when you use crooked at checkout.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Zbiotics is back with 100% money back guarantee. So if
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: you're unsatisfied for any reason, they will refund your money.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: No questions asked. Remember to head to zbiotics.com slash crooked
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: and use the code crooked at checkout for 15% off.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Positive America is brought to you by the Obama Foundation.
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Americans to believe, not in his ability to create change,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: but in their own. Now, the Obama Presidential Center is
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: opening as a global center for change on the south
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: side of Chicago. It's an entire campus designed to empower
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: people of all ages to turn inspiration into impact. From
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: immersive experiences and stunning gardens to an athletic center and
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: public library, it's a place for everyone to reconnect with
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: hope and discover their potential and To create change.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: How excited are you to reconnect with hope?
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Honestly, pretty fucking excited at this point. It's been gone
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: for a while. I'm very excited to visit the Obama
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Presidential Center. A lot of us are going to go
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: this summer to check it out.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: We love the Obama Foundation.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: I want to just live in some nostalgia for a minute.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Remember that politics doesn't have to be like.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: It is right now.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Be among the first to visit this new American landmark
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: when it opens this June. Tickets are available beginning May 6th.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Visit Obama.org to plan your visit. The Obama Presidential Center,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: bring change home.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: So Steve Shale, longtime Democratic strategist who's run Florida for
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: the party, told the Washington Examiner that there's a, quote,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: financial penalty specifically tied to burying the autopsy because donors
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: want a clear accounting before recommitting. The DNC is entering
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: April with negative net cash on hand. So even on
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: your own standard of does this help us win, is
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: it possible that the autopsy decision is actually costing you
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: the money you need to win?
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: That's just inaccurate, John.
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: And I'm sure you follow the campaign finance reports like
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: I do. We raised $ 105 million in 2025. a record
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: amount of money for the first year.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: You don't have, you're not, you don't, you're not have
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: negative cash on hand right now. You don't, you don't
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: have debt. That's negative cash on hand.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: We also, we do have debt, John.
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: And that's because I took out a loan last year
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: to make sure we can make deep investments. You know
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: what we've been doing, John? We've raised a record amount
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: of money, $ 105 million. It's the most raised for the
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: first year chair of any DNC chair in the history
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: of this party. And you know what's great about it?
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: We raised in 2017, which is an analogous year, a
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: year right after a presidential loss, Tom Perez raised $ 40
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: million less than what we raised this year.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: He didn't have the debt that you guys have.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: Yes, he did.
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: He had $ 76 million in debt. And so my point
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: to you is this, John, okay? I mean, we can
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: trade in all of this, but let's actually trade in facts.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: $ 105 million was raised.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: $ 85 million of.
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: It came from grassroots donors, which is a record amount
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: of grassroots donations raised in the history of the Democratic Party.
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: That shows the energy that's out there. The average contribution
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: is $ 51, by the way, John. And we raised more
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: than any of the other committees last year, the DS,
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: the DCCC. And I will just tell you this. All
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: of the Republican committees raised more than the DNC. And
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: so that's just a reality of coming out of a
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: year when you lose the presidential election, when you're the
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: party that's out of power. Of course, you're going to
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: not raise as much money as the Republicans. But to
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: suggest that we're not raising money is inaccurate. We raised
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: $ 32 million. We raised $ 32 million in the first quarter.
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: But what we're doing that's a little different, John, is
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: we're spending it. We're raising it and we're spending it.
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: Because one of the lessons we learned.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: You're spending more than you have. I mean, so you
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: guys have $ 13. 9 million cash on hand, right? I'm reading
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: the report, $ 13. 9 million cash on hand, $ 18. 3 million in debt.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: So that's roughly negative $ 4. 4 million. And I know it's
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: a tough environment for the party out of power, but
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: the DSCC and the DCCC and the Senate candidates have
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: plenty of money. They're all doing great. So it seems
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: like this is an issue unique to the DNC.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: That's not accurate, John.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: What part is not accurate?
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: The reality is we're spending money.
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: As we raise it to win elections and to build infrastructure.
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: We have invested significant amounts of money, record investments in
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: Virginia and New Jersey, investments in Mississippi in their state
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: legislative races to help them flip the Republican supermajority in
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: their state legislature, investments in the Miami mayoral race to
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: help us win a Democratic elected mayor in the first
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: time in 30 years, investments in the PSC races in
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: Georgia to help us win the first two non-federal elected races,
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: statewide races in 20 years in their history. You know,
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: investments throughout the country up and down the ballot and
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: investments in infrastructure, including the largest investments ever in a
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: 50 state party strategy where we're making the biggest investments
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: in building out the infrastructure of our state and local
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: party committees. You know, one of the lessons we learned,
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: by the way, John, from the last election is that
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: we waited too long to spend money. In fact, the
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: Republican Party, starting in 2020, right after Biden won that race,
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: the Democratic Party packed up the campaign infrastructure. Trump and
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: the Republicans kept going. They kept spending money. They kept organizing.
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: They kept communicating with voters.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: We did not.
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: And as a result, they had a three and a
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: half year long head start and going into the 2024 election.
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: We had 10 million Democrats who actually chose the couch
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: instead of voting in 2024. And part of the reason
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: why is because we weren't communicating with them early and often.
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: What did the Democratic Party decide last year to start doing?
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: We have our local listener program that's already engaging through
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: year-round organizing those voters who dropped off in 2024. You
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: have to spend money to win elections. And one of
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: the lessons we learn is if we wait. Now, look,
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: I know you came up in a certain time and
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: day in politics, but the old conventional wisdom, John, it
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: doesn't fly anymore. The old conventional wisdom is that you
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: waited to make investments until the final three months of
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: the election because that's when people were paying attention.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: Well, guess what?
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: That's bullshit. It's shown. We have to start early. We
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: have to build that infrastructure. We have to flex that
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: muscle early of having conversations with voters so that we
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: actually position ourselves to win. Now, are you criticizing me
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: for spending money early? Because that seems to be what
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: the thing is. And guess what? No, no, no.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: I think it's great that you're spending money early. And
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: I think it's very important to invest in state parties.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: I think a 50 state strategy is extremely important. But
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: we're talking about two different things. We're talking about spending
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: money and raising money. And you raised eleven point four
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: million dollars in March. the RNC raised double that in March.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: And so if you're going to spend that much money,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: obviously you have to also raise the money too, because
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: otherwise the difference between investment and just outrunning your costs
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: and taking on a loan because of that doesn't seem
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: like much of a difference to me.
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: It's not outrunning our costs, Jan, because we're able to
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: make these investments all throughout the country. And race after
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: race in our state party infrastructure, in our local party infrastructure,
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: You know, if we weren't able to keep up in
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: terms of building out this infrastructure, then there would be
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: a problem. We won over 90% of the elections on
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: the ballot. And most of them, if not all of them,
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: we had a direct involvement in. And I just say
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: this to you, John, because, you know, it was a
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: bet we made.
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: And I get it. You know, again, all the folks
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: in D.C., what.
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: They seem obsessed about and they spend a lot of
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: time thinking about is how much money do people have
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: on hand versus actually what are you doing to build
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: out the infrastructure to win?
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: And what is the role of a political party, John?
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: At the end of the day, our job is to
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: build infrastructure that our candidates can tap into.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: To do the things that.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Isn't the most important job of a DNC chair to
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: go and raise money? No, guess what?
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: Unfortunately. No, the job of the DNC chair is singular.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: It's to win. And guess what I've been doing the
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: last year and a half?
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Win.
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: And guess what I did for 14 years in a
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: very purple state?
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: Win, John. And I'm just telling you right now, I.
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: Think you and others who continue to bet against the DNC,
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: keep betting.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: Because guess what? Here's the reality, John. We're winning. And
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: we're winning because I'm defined.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: The investments you're making are not. I mean, obviously, there's
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: a difference between off year elections and midterm elections and
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: what it's going to take to build the kind of
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: infrastructure we need to win in 2028. Right. I mean,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I just think that that's that's it. You've talked a
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: lot about investing in state parties. The headline number is $ 20, 000
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: a month per state. My understanding is that also includes
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: like the Democratic Party of Guam and the party of
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: the Northern Mariana Islands who get basically the same check
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: as Pennsylvania or Wisconsin or North Carolina. I get that
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: every state and territory has DNC members. Every one of
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: them voted in the DNC election. You won. But it's
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: also a real chunk of money that's flowing to places
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: without federal races. And so I just wonder if you
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: have this much debt, is that the right allocation of
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: money to be giving it to state parties in Guam
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: and Northern Mariana Islands when Axios reported that there's also
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: contemplating layoffs at the DNC?
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: There's no... Again, John, you're just throwing out a bunch
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: of garbage.
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: We've never contemplated layoffs at the DNC. I haven't laid
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: anyone off since I've been a DNC chair. And so
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: I just want to be very clear with you again
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: and your listeners because you're just repeating garbage, you know,
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: pot shots at the DNC. I'm used to taking the
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: pot shots, by the way. You know, and I think
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: the mistake that you and others make is, you know,
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: somehow I just don't care. I came to this job
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: for one thing, which is to win.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: But you think the state party allocation to Guam and
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: everything is a worthwhile allocation of funds?
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: I think it is a worthwhile allocation because when we
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: organize everywhere, we can win anywhere. And it's important for
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: us not to just focus on federal power at the
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: expense of state and local power. This is where I'm
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: challenging the conventional wisdom of all these smart people in Washington, D.C., D.C. here,
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: which is that the only thing that matters is control
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: of Congress and the presidency. My job is to help
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: us win everywhere, to build power up and down the
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: ballot throughout the country, including in our territories. And so
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: you and I can just disagree on whether or not
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: those are investments that are worthwhile. I believe they are worthwhile.
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: It's important for us to actually build power for our
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: party and our party values everywhere there's Democrats. And we're
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: going to continue to do that. And so whether you
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: think that's a worthwhile investment or not, that's fine. You know,
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: you can take your check back if you don't believe
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: it's a.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: Good investment, John. But let me just say this.
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: The role of the Democratic Party is to build infrastructure
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: everywhere so that we can win. Let me give you
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: a couple of examples of what that infrastructure is. Our
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: voter file and our organizing tools and our data. Every candidate,
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: whether they're running for school board or president, relies on that.
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: We spend over $ 10 million a year on that, John.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: That's a critical piece of the infrastructure that people rely on.
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: Without the DNC, they would have to do that on
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: their own, all of these candidates. Our voter protection and
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: legal infrastructure that we build Every committee and every candidate
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: relies on us to be out there filing lawsuits and
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: protecting the vote. We filed over a thousand lawsuits, which
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: is a record number of lawsuits over the last year alone, right?
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: Including being lead plaintiffs in many of the big lawsuits
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: challenging Trump's executive orders. This is a piece of the
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: infrastructure people rely on.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Pod Save America is brought to you by HIMSS. ED
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: is way more common than most guys think. Millions of
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: guys deal with it at some point, and that's exactly
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: why HIMSS offers a straightforward way to handle it. HIMSS
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: connects you with licensed healthcare providers online, giving you simple
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: access to legitimate ED treatment options from home. No awkward appointments,
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: no pharmacy lines. Just complete a simple online intake, and
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: a provider will review your information to determine if treatment
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: is right for you, if prescribed, your treatment ships directly
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: to your door in discreet packaging. That includes sildenafil, also
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: known as generic for Viagra, available through HIMSS at up
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: to 95% less than the brand-named version. And if that
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: option isn't right for you, there are additional treatment options
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: available so you can find what works best for your body.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: It's straightforward, transparent, and designed to make getting care feel easy.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: To get simple online access to personalized, affordable care for ED,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: weight loss, and more, visit HIMSS.com slash crooked. That's HIMSS.com
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: slash crooked for your free online visit. HIMSS.com slash crooked.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Prescription required. See website for details and important safety information.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Sildenafil is the generic version of Viagra. Viagra is a
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: registered trademark of Viatris Specialty LLC. HIMSS is not affiliated
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: with or endorsed by Viatris. You mentioned the voter file.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: There's been talk that a meaningful chunk of the DNC's
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: debt traces to the committee buying the Harris campaign's voter file.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Is that accurate? Did you guys buy the Harris campaign's
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: voter file?
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: No.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: That didn't happen?
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: No, you're talking about buying a fundraising list, but that's
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: not a voter file.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: The fundraising list.
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Did you.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: Of course he purchased that.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: I was just wondering about the rationale for that, because
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: it feels like the DNC and the Harris campaign were
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: operating off largely the same data infrastructure during the campaign.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: So what did buying the list.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: You're.
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: Confusing two things, John. Data infrastructure and fundraising lists. Those
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: are separate things.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: And I, again.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: But even on the fundraising list, you guys didn't work off...
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: That was additive. Their fundraising list for $ 6. 5 million was
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: additive to... That was a good investment.
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: We purchased that list. And let me just say this, John, that...
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: That happens all the time in campaigns and elections, as
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: you know. Oh, I know.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: It's just a big chunk of money. That's why I
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: was just wondering.
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: As you know, John, that happens all the time. So
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: it's not it's not unique to this DNC. It's not
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: unique to. prior DNC chairs. It's not unique to campaigns
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: or elections. Frankly, campaigns and elections, campaigns at the end
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: of an election sell their list to cover their debt.
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: And so there's nothing new about that, John. And of course,
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: that's one of the biggest lists and the most valuable
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: list out there.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: It's a great investment for the DNC.
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: I'm trying to actually help us raise money so we
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: can compete, so we can win.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: And that was not only a great investment.
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: It's already paid for itself by you know, and we're
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: glad to be able to do that. And, you know,
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: we buy lists all the time. That's what people do
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: in this business.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, look, here's the reason I'm just being so
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: tough about all of this. I just think that what
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: I have seen happen before is especially in off-year elections,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: midterm elections, when we have the wind at our back
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: and I feel great about the midterms. I feel really
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: excited about the off-year elections, too, as we head towards 2028. Look,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: I saw this in 2022. We did well enough in
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: the midterms. And Democratic insiders, Biden administration, everyone else were saying,
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: you know what? This proves that we're going to win
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: in 2024 and we're in great shape. And I just
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: and God, I hope so, because I think we need
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: to win 2028 more than anything. But It is, it
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: concerns me that I see two things. One, this autopsy,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: which you campaigned on releasing and, and I know you're
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: releasing lessons, but are hiding still plenty of the details
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: in the autopsy. And I just can't figure out what
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: details that are in there that you don't want out
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: there because you don't trust people with, because they're going to,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: I guess, argue about them because it feels like we
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: really need a robust discussion about where the party's headed.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: Not just pundits like me. but the state party chairs
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: and the DNC committee members who are asking you to
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: release it, they're asking you to release it.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: I know you want to keep focusing on that and
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: that's fine.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Well, and I'm saying, and I do think that that
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: affects the, and the fundraising isn't going well either. So
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: I feel like that's- John, the.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: Fundraising, that is just completely inaccurate, John.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, you had a great first, you had a
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: great first year in 2025.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: And we've had a.
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: Great first quarter, $ 32 million we raised in the first quarter.
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: We raised $ 4 million in March than Tom Perez did
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: in 2018. We have we have 50 percent more cash
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: on hand than Tom Perez did.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: But you're excluding debt. You don't have 50 percent more
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: cash on hand if you include your debt.
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: John, we do, because at the end of the day,
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: we can pay that debt off whenever the hell we want.
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: I could hold that debt until the end of the year.
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: So so the reality is there's nothing that's holding me
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: back in terms of the cash I have, the cash
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: on hand I have.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: To spend it on elections.
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: I can carry that debt all the way through the
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: end of this year and beyond if I want.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: So that's just inaccurate.
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: I know you know campaigns, but you're just spewing stuff
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: out that's just wrong.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: I'm saying that I saw that talking point about 50%
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: more and it's based on- It's not a talking point.
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: We raised $ 32 million in the first quarter, okay? We
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: have $ 15 million on hand. We're able to spend that
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: money on continuing to build our infrastructure and to help
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: us win elections, okay? And- And we've continued to raise money.
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: Nothing has slowed down. In fact, the fundraising has picked
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: up significantly since even the last November's elections in 2025.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: So listen.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: And I know the grassroots fundraising has been great. I
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: know that. I can see that for sure. I just
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: there's plenty of reports about this. I've talked to plenty
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: of people about this, that that a lot of the
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: big donors still have not come off the sidelines. And
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: part of the reason is that there's a trust issue
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: based partly on the autopsy.
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just not seeing that, John. And I appreciate that. And,
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: you know, I don't believe that to be the case.
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: Maybe you're talking to donors that I'm not. I highly
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: doubt it. But the donors I'm talking to who are
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: holding back, they're not holding back because they're frustrated with me.
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: And they're not holding back because they're frustrated with the DNC.
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: Just the opposite. And so I think people see that
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: we are actually putting into action the lessons we've learned.
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: We're actually building the infrastructure we need. We're competing down
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: the ballot. We're making the investments throughout the country to
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: make sure that we're organizing everywhere. I mean, part of
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: the challenge, John, is we've talked about this on the
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: show before, that this party for years, and this is
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: why I ran for it, has had a very myopic
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: vision of just focusing in on one campaign cycle, one candidate,
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: one campaign at the expense of a long-term strategy. And
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: for us to break out of that, we actually have
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: to have a long-term strategy. And that requires us to
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: build through the lens of building long-term infrastructure. And so,
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: you know, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: If you throw all your eggs into one basket, which
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: is one campaign or one campaign cycle, then you've built
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: nothing permanent.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: Or if you do as I.
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: Am, right, which is to start building the permanent infrastructure
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: we need to have a long-term strategy, then you get
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: blamed because you don't have enough cash on hand to
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: compete with the Republicans. Well, the reality is we've been
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: competing with the Republicans and building the long-term infrastructure at
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: the same time. And so what I would ask you
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: to do is just think about this differently. The old
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: conventional wisdom of how we do campaigns I came in here,
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: and as I said, I'm challenging that conventional wisdom. I'm
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: challenging the idea that we just invest in the final
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: three months at the expense of a long-term strategy. I'm
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: challenging the conventional wisdom that we just focus on federal
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: power at the expense of state and local power, right?
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: I am challenging the conventional wisdom that we just focus
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: on seven battleground states at the expense of the rest
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: of this country. So I get that that frustrates people, John.
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: But guess what? It will pay dividends. It already is,
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: both in the short term and it will pay dividends
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: in the long term as this map shifts underneath of
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: our feet in the next four to six years. So
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: I say all this. I get where your frustration comes from, right?
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: But as I said, and I get it, there are people,
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: including you and others, who are in a different place
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: on this chairs race. But since I've come here, I
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: have won. And you can't ignore that fact.
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: We have won. I would go and ask you to
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: talk to Eileen Higgins, the mayor of.
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: Miami. I would go and ask you to talk to
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: Alicia Johnson and Peter Hubbard, the new PSC commissioners in Georgia.
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: I would go and ask you to talk to Mikey
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: Sherrill in New Jersey. I would go and ask you
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: and talk to Abigail Spanberger in Virginia. I would go
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: to ask you to talk to Taylor Romet in Fort Worth, Texas.
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: and many, many other campaigns and candidates that we've helped
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: over the course of the last year and a half.
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: Because what they will tell you is that the DNC
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: was critically involved in those races. Was that a good investment?
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: I suppose by some people's standards, no, because we're not
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: hoarding our money for the November election to win back
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: control of Congress.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: I want to make sure you guys have enough money.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: And I know there's, you know, fundraising issues that you're being,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: you know, RNC raised nearly double than you guys. So
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: I want to make sure you have enough money and,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: you know, the DS and the D trip and. Everyone
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: else in the Senate candidates are raising a whole bunch
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: of money and matching Republicans, so I just want to
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: make sure you guys have the money as well.
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: They're not matching Republicans. There's not matching Republicans. Every Republican
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: committee out-raised their counterpart.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: Not by double as you guys in the RNC, but
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: I hear you.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: They didn't out-raise us by double either.
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: We raised $ 32 million to their $ 54 million.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: I'm going by the March numbers, which is 11 to 21,
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: but I hear you. I hear you.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate you. I appreciate you coming on. I
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: appreciate you answering these questions. And I just I do
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: hope it was interesting to learn that you do still
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: plan on releasing an executive summary of the full after
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: action report publicly to people who want it. That is
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: coming soon, I guess.
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: We've been releasing those. We'll continue to release.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: We've been releasing them. You've been releasing an executive summary
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: or you've been doing individual.
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: We've been releasing those lessons. The lessons are the summary.
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: That's we've been releasing those. Since the beginning of this year,
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: in briefing after briefing, we've published them in our playbook,
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: as I mentioned.
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: We'll continue to release them.
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: And so if anyone wants to see some of that
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: work already, go to dnc.org backslash playbook, and you can
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: see how we're already putting those lessons into action. We'll
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: continue to do that, John. I mean, that was my
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: commitment when I ran, and that was my commitment when
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: we talked last, is that we were going to help
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: make sure people understood what lessons we needed to learn
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: going into this election, and we'll continue to do that.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: So... Thank you. Thank you, Ken Martin, for joining us always.
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: Thank you, John.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: If you want to listen to Pod Save America ad-free
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: or get access to our subscriber Discord and exclusive podcasts,
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: consider joining our Friends of the Pod community at crooked.com
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: slash friends or subscribe on Apple Podcasts directly from the
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: Pod Save America feed. Also, be sure to follow Pod
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: Save America on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube for full episodes,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: bonus content, and more. And before you hit that next button,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: you can help boost this episode by leaving us a
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: review and by sharing it with friends and family. Pod
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our producers are
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: David Toledo, Saul Rubin, and Emma Illick-Frank. Our associate producer
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: is Farah Safari. Reid Cherland is our executive editor, and
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Adrian Hill is our executive producer. The show is mixed
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer,
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Madeline
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Herringer is our head of news and programming. Matt DeGroat
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: is our head of production. Naomi Sengel is our executive assistant.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Ben Hethcote,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Molly Lobel, Kiril Pallaviv, Kenny Moffitt, and David Toles. Our
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: America East.